Latest / Pittsburgh Sports Memories / REWIND: Forgotten Controversies​

Transcript

REWIND: Forgotten Controversies​ · Pittsburgh Sports Memories

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_01: Hi everybody, welcome to the Pittsburgh Sports Memories Podcast.
• 0:04
  SPEAKER_01: I am Tim Hannon, and with me always is Steve Wort.
• 0:07
  SPEAKER_01: And today we're going to look at some forgotten controversies in Pittsburgh sports history.
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_01: So I think you know our our culture today Especially, there are some things that are controversies and people remember them years and decades later.
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_01: But then there's other things that people just have very short-lived outraged about, and then they kind of move on to the next thing and people forget about.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_01: I think that that's no different in the world of sports.
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_01: So today we're going to talk about some of those kind of short-lived, maybe forgotten controversies that have happened over the years in Pittsburgh Sports, some of which you may remember, some of which you may not.
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_01: And before I jump into these, I have to give some props to the Jaguar Gator 9 YouTube channel.
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_01: I think I've mentioned this channel on the show before.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_01: But just it's a channel where they do a bunch of football stories, and I got some details for some of these things off of that channel, so I just have to give that YouTube channel props, and we'll link that from our website.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_01: So with that, let me jump in.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_01: The first one we're going to talk about is the other national anthem controversy.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_01: So of course, everybody remembers the whole Colin Kaepernick nailing during the national anthem controversy and how the Steelers kind of got sucked into that in a game at Soldier Field when they opted to stay in the tunnel.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_01: Right, we've talked about that before, and everybody remembers that.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_01: But do you remember about a decade earlier there was another controversy involving the Steelers and the National Anthem that a lot of people probably forget about?
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_01: And so that that happened in 2007.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_01: The Steelers, they're hosting the Miami Dolphins for a Monday night football game.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_01: And the guy scheduled to sing the national anthem is a gentleman named Vince Neal.
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_01: Steve, do you know who Vince Neal is?
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_01: Motley Crue?
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, the lead singer for Motley Crue.
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_01: So that's a big get.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_01: It's a Monday night football game, so they have a well-known guy out there to sing the national anthem.
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_01: But before the game starts, it is pouring down rain, and there's even lightning.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_01: So the NFL says, you know what, we're going to delay the kickoff by about 25 minutes.
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_01: And that makes sense.
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_01: You don't want people out there getting struck by lightning on a nationally televised football game.
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_01: So finally the electrical storm ends.
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_01: It's time to start the pregame festivities.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_01: And the league and ESPN want to march Vince Neal out there right after the decision was made to send the players out to warm up.
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_01: But at that point, all the fans were still on the concourses.
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_01: So Art Rooney III says, well, just hold on a few minutes.
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_01: Let people get back to their seats so that they can, you know, uh hear the national anthem.
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_01: But by the time that happens, the NFL decides we've waited long enough, we've got to get this thing going, screw the national anthem, and they just skip it altogether and play the game without the national anthem.
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_01: And there are some people that are upset by that.
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_01: The American Legion and the Veterans of Foreign Wars both uh issue public statements condemning that decision.
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_01: Uh the Steelers say there were a number of angry phone calls to the team as well.
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_01: And the Steelers do apologize the next day, even though it really wasn't their decision, it was the leagues.
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_01: So um why isn't that controversy really remembered?
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_01: I think I think there's really two reasons.
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_01: One, that night uh there was a much bigger controversy surrounding the the condition of the fields.
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_01: That was the three to nothing game.
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, where they had a punt that literally landed in the mud.
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_00: I sang the national anthem to myself.
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_01: And uh so that was number one, and then I think number two is you know, in 2007 we just hadn't decided as a society that the playing of the national anthem before football games was something that we cared very deeply about.
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_01: It took us, you know, another decade or so before we decided that that was something we wanted to fight about.
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_01: So so yeah, Steve, you were you were at that game.
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_01: Do you do you remember uh being disappointed not getting to see Vince Neil?
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_01: I really was, yeah.
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_00: I was really hoping he'd sing Doctor Feel Good.
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_00: Is that a Motley Cruz song?
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, I think so.
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_00: Uh yeah, uh who cares?
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_00: I I think I think that was pretty much everybody's uh reaction.
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_00: It was like it was really wet.
• 4:49
  SPEAKER_00: I remember that like the rain was really torrential, it was a really bad rainstorm.
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_00: I I do remember that.
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_00: And it was uh it was pretty ugly.
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_00: The field, like you said, when the field got really ugly, that that was yeah, probably the bigger story.
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_00: So Vince Neal didn't get to sing.
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_00: Did they ever bring him back later and let him sing the national anthem?
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_00: That's a good question.
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_00: They should have brought him like a penguins game that he could sing both national anthems.
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_00: There you go.
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_01: Well, speaking of Canadians and hockey, our next uh controversy involves Mario Lemieux.
• 5:28
  SPEAKER_01: So in 2001, Mario comes out of retirement.
• 5:31
  SPEAKER_01: He leads the penguins on this magical run all the way to the Eastern Conference Finals.
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_01: We did an entire episode about that season and and that story.
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_01: So after that, there was there was certainly a lot of excitement for the follow-up season, but 2002, not so magical.
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_01: Early in that season, Mario undergoes arthroscopic surgery to repair torn cartilage in his hip.
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_01: He misses 24 straight games that year, and then when he does come back, he's just kind of in and out of the lineup.
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_01: And by February of that season, the Penguins are seven points out of a playoff spot, which is in February.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it's still enough time to make up the gap, but obviously they're not a very good team if they're seven points out in February.
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, Mario has done a lot of things uh up in his career up to this point, but the one thing he's never done is play for Team Canada in the Olympics.
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_01: And also in February, the Olympics were being held in Salt Lake City, Utah, and the NHL players were participating.
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_01: So in 2002, he has a chance to not only play for Team Canada but be their captain.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_01: Uh also, and this is something I didn't realize until I researched it for this episode.
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_01: At that point, Canada had not won a gold medal in hockey for 50 years, which is really hard to believe given that they invented the sport.
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and and and that was you know, that was largely due to the dominance of the Soviets, but I mean, even the Americans had won two gold medals during that span where Canada had not won any.
• 7:01
  SPEAKER_00: That doesn't even make any sense.
• 7:03
  SPEAKER_00: I can't wrap my head around that.
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_01: I I couldn't even.
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_00: Because you would think you would send up like the C Canadian hockey team, and you would at least get a well, they are medaling though, right?
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_00: Just not gold medals, I guess.
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, but still, I mean I mean, because the C like if you took like the third pick of the best Canadian hockey players, you're still gonna have a pretty darn good hockey team.
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, but the Soviets had that Red Army team.
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, remember we did an episode about that, too.
• 7:31
  SPEAKER_00: That was one of the best team hockey teams of all time.
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 7:35
  SPEAKER_00: Except for that one time in uh, you know, New York, they didn't do so well.
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_01: They didn't didn't didn't do so well that time.
• 7:44
  SPEAKER_01: Uh so uh, you know, that's that's a big, that's a dream opportunity for Mario, right?
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_01: He can be the captain of Team Canada and lead them to gold for the first time in half a century.
• 7:55
  SPEAKER_01: Such a dream, in fact, that Mario publicly makes this statement right before the Olympics.
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_01: He says, quote, my priority this year has been playing in the Olympics, and that's why I haven't played too many games for the Penguins, especially over the last couple of weeks.
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_01: End quote.
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_01: And that causes just an absolute firestorm amongst the locals.
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_01: What do you mean you're saving yourself for Canada?
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_01: The Penguins should be your priority, not some stupid Canuck team.
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_01: You know, where's your loyalty, Mario?
• 8:23
  SPEAKER_01: Uh it's it's sports, it's really it's like sports talk fodder for a while, but then it just kind of fades.
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_01: And Mario does, in fact, lead Team Canada to that elusive gold medal, and then probably misses the rest of the NHL season.
• 8:35
  SPEAKER_01: The Penguins miss the playoffs for the first time in 12 years.
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_01: But I think this one gets forgotten really because Mario had generated more than enough goodwill by that point, and certainly more than enough goodwill after that point, that no one was really gonna stay mad at him.
• 8:52
  SPEAKER_00: Sounds like a fair assessment.
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, he probably like how mad are people gonna stay at Mario.
• 8:59
  SPEAKER_00: Although I mean, I have met people that don't like him.
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_00: They think he just puts on like a lot of stuff for show.
• 9:04
  SPEAKER_00: Like it's not, you know, legit.
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_00: But I mean, if it's all for show, he's pretty good at it.
• 9:11
  unknown: Yeah.
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I don't know.
• 9:13
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe maybe my wife's uncle is really mad about him playing in Salt Lake City that year.
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, there were people I I found like letters to the editor and stuff like that from back then.
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, people were very angry, and why don't they just go back to Canada?
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_01: You know, stuff like that.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_00: Uh well, he could move the penguins back to Canada, or not to Canada, not back to Canada.
• 9:35
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it it was it was awkward too because he owned the team, right?
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_01: And he's literally saying that and and there was also some controversy about should the NHL, and there's there's been controversy in recent years where they haven't played.
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_01: Should the should the NHL players be playing in the Olympics?
• 9:51
  SPEAKER_01: Because does that interfere with the you know, with the um integrity of the the season, the NHL season?
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_00: Oh no, not the integrity of the NHL season.
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_00: Oh my gosh.
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_01: I hear you had Mary Lum Lemie basically saying it did.
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_00: Oh they play 82 games, my God.
• 10:12
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_01: Again, it it I agree with you.
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_00: I'm just saying it it it's you're playing devil's advocate, aren't you?
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_01: I I can see why people are a little peeved, right?
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_01: But again, like Mary Lemie could could, you know, he could do a lot of terrible things, and he's still, you know, one of the great people.
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_01: in the interview.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_01: That's that's absolutely accurate.
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_01: Yep.
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, our next one, uh, we're gonna we're gonna shift to baseball.
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_01: Uh the pirates certainly have seen their fair share of controversies over the years.
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_01: In fact, the the the team is named the Pirates because of a controversy where they pirated a player from a Philadelphia team.
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_01: We talked about that in a previous episode.
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_01: But let's talk about an incident much later.
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_01: Let's talk about an incident from the 2015 season.
• 10:59
  SPEAKER_01: The Pirates are playing the Washington Nationals, and on the mound they're facing future Hall of Famer Max Scherzer.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_01: Scherzer's on fire that day.
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_01: He retires the first 26 batters, which means he's just one out away from a perfect game.
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_01: And to give you an idea of how rare that is, and at that point in baseball history that there had only been 23 perfect games ever pitched.
• 11:21
  SPEAKER_01: So you think about how many baseball games are played every year over the span of a hundred plus years.
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_01: There's only 23 of them.
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, there's a lot more no-hitters.
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_00: Like no-hitters aren't really that rare compared to perfect games.
• 11:36
  SPEAKER_00: Perfect games are extremely rare.
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_01: And if you're not familiar with the difference, a no-hitter is you don't allow a hit.
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_00: You can allow the walk or an error.
• 11:45
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_00: Somebody could you could strike somebody out in that dumb role where you can run the first if the catcher misses the ball.
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 11:53
  unknown: Yeah.
• 11:53
  SPEAKER_01: A perfect game is literally 27 up, 27 down.
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_01: Nobody even gets a base.
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_01: So incredibly rare, and Scherzer's on the verge of doing that.
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_01: He has one guy left to get out, and it's pinch hitter for the Pirates Jose Tabata.
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_01: And he gets two strikes on him, so now Scherzer just needs one more strike for this historic perfect game.
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_01: He throws a slider inside, and Tabada, probably knowing he's not going to get a hit, clearly just drops his elbow, so the ball hit his elbow.
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_01: He's awarded first base, thereby breaking up the perfect game.
• 12:26
  SPEAKER_01: Uh the internet really blows up.
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's controversial for several reasons.
• 12:31
  SPEAKER_01: One is it's it's I mean, it's it's really a bush league move by Tabata.
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_01: He's especially because he's wearing this gigantic elbow pad.
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_01: So like he didn't even feel anything by dropping his elbow and letting the ball hit this giant uh mammoth pad that he had on.
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_01: Uh so it wasn't like he even took one in the back or something.
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_01: And then secondly, it it should have never been allowed because the the Major League Baseball role, it the role is not just you automatically get first base every time the ball touches the batter.
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_01: It's actually a judgment call from the umpire.
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_01: That's why you can't just like wave your arm over home plate.
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_00: If it's yeah, I've actually seen that.
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_00: I saw that happen in American Legion game.
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_00: The kid squared around the bunt and missed the bunt, and like the it hit him right in the the private area, and like it was strike one.
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_00: It was I felt you felt bad for the kid, but it was like up strike because he was standing across the plate trying to bunt.
• 13:29
  SPEAKER_00: And if you lean into the plate, that's supposed to be a strike.
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_01: That should have been strike three, and that should have been a perfect game.
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_01: So um Sherzer does still get the no-hitter, he gets the next guy and gets the no-hitter, but you know, to get a perfect game would have been historical.
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_01: And and to his credit, he actually had had a pretty classy response to the incident afterwards.
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_01: He didn't make a big deal about it.
• 13:51
  SPEAKER_01: He just said, you know, I shouldn't have thrown the pitch inside.
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, uh, but yeah, that was that was certainly controversial, but I don't know.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_01: I probably watching the Nationals fans would remember that more than Pirates fans.
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_00: I don't I don't remember that at all, but it sounds like something Jose Tabada would do.
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_00: Was that the guy with the lips uh tattoo, I think, on his neck?
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_00: I think it was maybe yeah.
• 14:17
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, if you ask me who Jose Tabada was, I'd say he's the guy that leaned into Max Scherzer's perfect game just to be a jerk.
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_00: And well, it would have been like different, like if he would have bunted, or like that still would have been frowned on, but at least you bunted and they have to field it and get you out, you know?
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_00: And if you break it up that way, it's not great, but at least it's something, right?
• 14:39
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I don't know.
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I'll I'll post the clip on it on our website.
• 14:43
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, you yeah, to me it's just blatantly obvious.
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_01: He just literally just puts his elbow right in the middle of the the where the ball is coming.
• 14:51
  SPEAKER_01: So bushlight move by him.
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, the next one is uh the Jerome Bettis rape allegations.
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_00: Oh man.
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_01: Do you remember this one, Steve?
• 15:03
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, I remember this.
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so so in August of 2002, a 22-year-old woman accuses Steelers running back Jerome Bettis of sexually assaulting her.
• 15:13
  SPEAKER_01: It's right before the season is about to start, and here you have the face of the team potentially gonna be charged with rape.
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_01: You know, would he go to prison?
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_01: Uh was he gonna be suspended by the league while he's awaiting trial?
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_01: That's a pretty big deal.
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_01: In 2002, Jerome Bettis is you know the star of the team, and and you know, what's gonna happen next?
• 15:33
  SPEAKER_01: And you would think everybody would remember that, but probably the reason that a lot of people don't is because it didn't never actually happen.
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_01: As it turns out, there was a Penn State professor who had hatched a bunch of schemes to attempt to get raped at the expense of steel or players.
• 15:49
  SPEAKER_01: His first plan was to try to lure a steel horse player into a fight at a bar so that they could beat him up and then he could sue for damages.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_01: And when that doesn't work out, his next plan is to enlist his niece to seduce a Steel Wars player at that same bar and get them to have sex with her and then cry rape so that they could win a big out-of-court settlement.
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_01: And that plan does sort of appear to work at first because the woman and fettis do have consensual sex, but then she files these charges saying he raped her.
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_01: However, as police start to investigate, it all falls apart pretty quickly.
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_01: One of the main reasons it falls apart pretty quickly because the Penn State professor actually brags to his students that he's pulling off this scheme.
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_01: And that's kind of the way it all falls apart.
• 16:35
  SPEAKER_01: And it's I think what's most disappointing about the whole thing is that you know Penn State was just they were just so good at hiding sex scandals.
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_01: Um you went there.
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_01: You just I mean, you can just I can just imagine Graham Spanier and Tim Curley and Joe Pa just shaking their heads.
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_01: Like, are you kidding?
• 16:55
  SPEAKER_01: You're telling your students here, let us show you how this is done.
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_01: So wow.
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_00: That wasn't a cheap shot.
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_00: Zinger.
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_00: Uh wow.
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I do remember that.
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_00: I remember it was all big scam.
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_00: And boy, Bettis is lucky that that didn't, you know, because he obviously was falsely accused.
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_00: And I tell you what, what is, and people have said this, and like I think when you say it kind of falls on like deaf ears, but like when there's a false rape accusation, that hurts all the other people that have been really victimized.
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_01: Very true.
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_00: And like, so I think too, like when Ben had those accusations, remember later, people didn't believe it at first because they go, Oh, is this just another person trying to get rich?
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_00: Where you know, some of those might have been legit.
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_00: So I mean it's just you can't I I don't know.
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_00: It's just what what a bunch of uh did did they they went they got did they go to jail over that or they just like probably got like a slap on the wrist or something?
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_01: That's a that's a great question.
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_01: I don't I don't know what happened to them.
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_01: I I hope that they got something severe because like you said, Steve, it's so unfair to the women who because so many of those things are he said, she said.
• 18:13
  SPEAKER_01: Right, right.
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_01: And people are like, well, what proof do you have?
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_01: Well, what proof like was I supposed to be, you know, having a camera on me the whole time?
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_01: Like what how do you you know that's not always proof?
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_00: I consent to this action, yeah.
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_01: And so and so there's real victims out there, and that and that's you know, and then people see stuff like that, and then you know, their bias might be, oh, a football player or a basketball player is being accused of rape, it's probably just BS like that other one was.
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, that's a very good point.
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_00: I think too, like you it goes back to the Mario you were saying about Mario, how Mario had a lot of goodwill.
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_00: It depends on who it the charge is against.
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_00: If it would have been against like, you know, somebody maybe didn't have that goodwill build up, then it definitely I think it would have gone farther.
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_01: So all right, we're we'll go back to hockey for our next one.
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, and it involves uh Herb Brooks.
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_01: So uh, and we we were just talking about the 1980 Olympic team.
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_01: Herb Brooks, of course, uh is most famous for being the miracle on ice coach of that team.
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, if you ever saw the movies played by Kurt Russell in the movie adaptation.
• 19:23
  SPEAKER_01: But in in 2000, he's actually coaching the Pittsburgh Penguins.
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_01: And that year the Penguins were playing a game in Denver against the Colorado Avalanche, and near the end of regulation, Avalanche defenseman Alexei Gusarov, who's Russian, uh cross-tecks Penguin born Matthew Barnaby from behind.
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 19:45
  SPEAKER_00: Not Matthew Barnaby, poor innocent Matthew Barnaby.
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah.
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_01: Well, and that's and so that, yeah, so it's funny that you say that.
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's it's actually a pretty dirty hit, and Barnaby's like writhing on the ice in pain.
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_01: But the announcers for Colorado are a little skeptical, um, because it's Matthew Barnaby.
• 20:05
  SPEAKER_01: And so the the the one of the announcers for the Avalanche is a guy named John Kelly, and he basically says, you know, well, Barnaby does have kind of a history of embellishing, and I bet this is just him trying to get a penalty.
• 20:19
  SPEAKER_01: And and it actually wasn't.
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_01: Uh you know, and and and but at the same time, uh Barnaby kind of had a lot of um instigating kind of antics in his career.
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, but this this wasn't one of them.
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_01: He he was he was not faking, he was literally pretty seriously injured.
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_01: And and after the game, uh the media, including John Kelly, the the Avalanche announcer, they're waiting to interview Herb Brooks, but he's not coming out from the locker room.
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_01: And it's because he's watching the tape of this incident and he hears what John Kelly says about Barnaby embellishing, and he absolutely loses it.
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_01: He he storms out of the locker room screaming obscenities at Kelly, physically goes after him.
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_01: In fact, the Avalanche security guards have to restrain Herb Brooks.
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_01: And he among other things, he's yelling, You're not half the man your father was, because Kelly's a son of Hall of Famer, Dan Kelly.
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_01: Uh it's it's a pretty ugly incident.
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_01: In fact, the the league comes out and says that Herb Brooks is suspended, quote, indefinitely.
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_01: Uh which of course, and then it's the NHL, so of course that ends up only being two games.
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_00: That's yeah.
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_00: You're gone forever.
• 21:31
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, you can come back.
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_01: No, if you if you took somebody's like head off, that would have been maybe three games.
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but it's it's not again, that that's one of those other ones that's just not really remembered today.
• 21:45
  SPEAKER_01: I don't remember that at all, but yeah, it at the time it really did.
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, Brooks was was uh fairly new as the the coach in in Pittsburgh that year he had replaced a fired Kevin Constantine.
• 21:57
  SPEAKER_01: And that really endeared Brooks to the Penguin fans.
• 21:59
  SPEAKER_01: And His players.
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_01: Barnaby said later, uh, quote, it gives me chills just thinking about it.
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_01: I would have done anything for Herbrooks after that.
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_00: Ah.
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_00: Well, maybe you went after the rushing coach like that, or you know, I don't know.
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_00: When that would have gone so well, the KGB would have been involved, that's for sure.
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I I had just had to note that the guy that heard Barnaby was a wrestling player.
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_01: I'm I'm sure I doubt that that factored into anything, but yeah, this kind of feels like full circle for whatever reason.
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_00: He tra who tragically ended up dying years later in a car accident.
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_01: Not not too long after this.
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_01: I want to say like three or four years later.
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_00: Wow.
• 22:43
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe the KGB just wants making you think it was a car accident.
• 22:47
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe.
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_01: All right.
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_01: The next the next one on the list we're going to call Liberty Bowl Gate.
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_01: Liberty Bowl Gate.
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_01: Nice.
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_01: So 1997, the Pitt football team has a Cinderella season under first year head coach Walt Harris.
• 23:02
  SPEAKER_01: That year they upset Miami and Virginia Tech.
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_01: They head into the final game of the year at Morgantown with a chance to clinch a winning record in a bowl game for the first time in forever.
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_01: And that became that game, I think we've talked about it before, becomes an instant classic.
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_01: It goes into three overtimes.
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_01: Pitt prevails.
• 23:21
  SPEAKER_01: Their players and their fans celebrate the fact that Pitt is headed to Memphis, Tennessee to play Southern Miss on New Year's Eve.
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_00: Does not have Brett Favre.
• 23:32
  SPEAKER_01: No, this was this was post-Bret Favre.
• 23:35
  SPEAKER_01: And it's it's their first bowl game since the 1980s.
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_01: This is 1997.
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_01: So it's a big deal at that point.
• 23:43
  SPEAKER_01: Now, why did Pitt fans know they were playing in the Liberty Bowl?
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_01: Usually, usually if you if you're bull eligible, you wait for a bull invitation, right?
• 23:51
  SPEAKER_01: Well, back then the Big East had contracts with several of the Bulls, and the Liberty Bull was always the fourth place Big East team, which that year was Pitt, against the Conference USA champion, which that year was Southern Miss.
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_01: Also that year, the Big East only had four bull eligible teams, period.
• 24:10
  SPEAKER_01: Syracuse, Virginia Tech, WBU, and Pitt.
• 24:13
  SPEAKER_01: And the other three already got their bowl invites.
• 24:15
  SPEAKER_01: So literally it was automatic Pitt would be playing Southern Miss and the Liberty Bowl.
• 24:20
  SPEAKER_01: Or was it?
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_01: The Liberty Bowl actually doesn't want Pitt.
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_01: They want Ole Miss.
• 24:26
  SPEAKER_01: Uh they think it'll be a better draw having Ole Miss play Southern Miss in Memphis.
• 24:31
  SPEAKER_01: But they're contractually obligated to slack Pitt.
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_01: They can't just invite Ole Miss.
• 24:37
  SPEAKER_01: So they actually publicly ask Pitt to opt out and play in a different bowl game.
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_01: And that doesn't go over well with the university.
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_01: It doesn't go over well with the fans.
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_01: It's pretty offensive.
• 24:50
  SPEAKER_01: It's disrespectful to the program.
• 24:52
  SPEAKER_01: So everybody's pretty upset about it.
• 24:54
  SPEAKER_01: And the administration of the University of Pittsburgh is just like, uh, no, we're we're playing in the Liberty Bowl.
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_01: So another one that kind of blows over pretty quickly, but everybody was pretty upset about it at the time.
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_01: Uh the good news is, you know, Pitt really showed them all what a huge mistake they made by going down to Memphis and losing the Liberty Bowl 41 to 7.
• 25:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, they got blown out.
• 25:18
  SPEAKER_00: I remember that.
• 25:20
  SPEAKER_00: I remember being really excited about that game.
• 25:23
  SPEAKER_00: And then I don't know.
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_00: That was New Year.
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_00: That was New Year's Eve, wasn't it?
• 25:28
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you and I spent that New Year's Eve together and we watched that game.
• 25:31
  SPEAKER_01: It was exciting because they hadn't been in a bowl in a long time.
• 25:35
  SPEAKER_01: Not only had they not been in a bowl, but they they that was after like they won three games every year.
• 25:41
  SPEAKER_01: The Johnny Majors era, it was three wins.
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_01: And they just they would get crushed, you know, 62 to 7 in their big East games.
• 25:50
  SPEAKER_01: So to to not only to see them um win more than three games, but to see them be bull eligible.
• 25:57
  SPEAKER_01: And that was that was yeah, that was in the era when there still wasn't, you know, I mean there was a lot of bulls, but there wasn't quite as many as there are today.
• 26:06
  SPEAKER_01: So it was a big deal.
• 26:07
  SPEAKER_01: It was just a big deal to play in that game.
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_01: And even even though they got destroyed, it was still cool to see them in a bowl game.
• 26:13
  SPEAKER_00: They couldn't name a member of the Southern Miss team, so I don't they weren't yeah.
• 26:18
  SPEAKER_00: I guess they were champions of Conference USA for whatever reason.
• 26:24
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, Pitt had what, Pete Gonzalez was the quarterback and Jay Cofort and Terry Murphy and all those guys.
• 26:33
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, yeah.
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, Southern Miss was I I don't know who played for them, but they were obviously a better team than Pitt.
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_00: By by 30 some points, yeah.
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 26:43
  SPEAKER_01: But Delivery Bowl did not want Pitt to come to that game.
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I get it, I get it.
• 26:47
  SPEAKER_00: Like it would probably be better, probably wasn't well attended.
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_00: Pitt fans are not known to travel, so I see their point.
• 26:55
  SPEAKER_01: I think the game that they wanted them to opt into was a game in, I want to say like Louisiana.
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_01: And I think you know, A, it was like Pitt Pitt's not just going to opt out of your game because you want them to, and then B, if if people could at least drive to Memphis, nobody was going to drive to Louisiana to see Pitt play in a bowl game.
• 27:16
  SPEAKER_01: So it would have been just bad for Pittsburgh.
• 27:18
  SPEAKER_00: Whatever it was like that bowl that used to be in Shreveport or something like that, that would have been it might have been, it might have been one of those, yeah.
• 27:26
  SPEAKER_00: Even Memphis, like like I I Memphis is, oh man, that's a nine or ten hour drive.
• 27:32
  SPEAKER_00: That's not a close drive.
• 27:35
  SPEAKER_00: So all right.
• 27:36
  SPEAKER_01: The next one on our list um is the Colt McCoy incident.
• 27:42
  SPEAKER_01: And this one takes place in December of 2011.
• 27:46
  SPEAKER_00: The Colt McCoy incident.
• 27:48
  SPEAKER_00: Tonight on Canon's the Colt McCoy incident.
• 27:51
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe the Colt McCoy affair would have been a better one.
• 27:54
  SPEAKER_00: That would have been a good book title political thriller.
• 27:57
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 27:57
  SPEAKER_01: The Colt McCoy Affair.
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so December of 2011, the Steelers are playing at home in a Thursday night game against the Cleveland Browns.
• 28:08
  SPEAKER_01: And the Browns, of course, had had like 98 different quarterbacks over the years.
• 28:13
  SPEAKER_01: In 2011, their quarterback was the legendary Colt McCoy, whom they had drafted out of Texas.
• 28:19
  SPEAKER_01: And he fares just about as well as the rest of the guys they had drafted.
• 28:23
  SPEAKER_01: In 2011, he's the starter on a 4-8 Browns team.
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_01: But they're actually hanging with the 9-3 Steelers that night.
• 28:30
  SPEAKER_01: They're only down 7-3 late in the fourth quarter, and they're driving for the potential game-winning touchdown.
• 28:37
  SPEAKER_01: And that's when McCoy tries to make a play.
• 28:39
  SPEAKER_01: He he scrambles like he's going to run, but then at the last second, he he tries to flip the ball to the running back, and just as he does that, he's drilled in the head by Steelers linebacker James Harrison.
• 28:50
  SPEAKER_01: It's a helmet-to-helmet hit.
• 28:52
  SPEAKER_01: McCoy's crumpled over on the field.
• 28:54
  SPEAKER_01: Um Harrison's flag for a personal foul.
• 28:57
  SPEAKER_01: And it's controversial just with that alone because it's James Harrison.
• 29:02
  SPEAKER_01: He has a history with these kinds of hits.
• 29:04
  SPEAKER_01: But the reason it becomes a much bigger controversy is really because of all the stuff that happens afterwards.
• 29:11
  SPEAKER_01: So uh the Browns send Seneca Wallace, who's their backup quarterback into the game.
• 29:17
  SPEAKER_01: But remember, you know, this is the end of the game, and they have a chance to pull off this huge road upset against their big rivals, and they really want to win.
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_01: So hey Colt, you're you're kind of okay, right?
• 29:27
  SPEAKER_01: Why don't you go back into the game?
• 29:29
  SPEAKER_01: And they send Colt McCoy back into the game.
• 29:31
  SPEAKER_01: He's very woozy.
• 29:32
  SPEAKER_01: In fact, he throws a game-ending interception in the end zone, probably because he can't see straight.
• 29:38
  SPEAKER_01: Uh he he's he's unable after the game, they try to interview him and he can't do any interviews because the lights from the locker room and the cameras are making him like physically ill.
• 29:49
  SPEAKER_01: So there's all kinds of outrage after the game.
• 29:52
  SPEAKER_01: Uh Harrison suspended.
• 29:54
  SPEAKER_01: So Steelers fans and Harrison himself are really upset about that because they say, you know, McCoy had turned himself into a runner on that play because he started to scramble, and so there should have been a different standard applied for that hit.
• 30:09
  SPEAKER_01: But then people are also questioning why in the world was Colt McCoy sent back into the game when he clearly had a concussion.
• 30:16
  SPEAKER_01: Uh the the guy that was the president of the Browns at this time was Mike Holmgren.
• 30:21
  SPEAKER_01: And Mike Holmgren had a history of doing this.
• 30:24
  SPEAKER_01: When he was a coach of the Seahawks, he once famously sent John Kitten into a game where John Kitten, I couldn't even remember his own name.
• 30:31
  SPEAKER_01: Uh McCoy's McCoy's dad actually calls out the Browns publicly for endangering his son, which, depending on who you believe, may or may not have led to his son being cut by the team.
• 30:43
  SPEAKER_01: And then the NFL even gets in hot water because they very uh absent-mindedly make a photo of a concussed McCoy available for purchase on their website.
• 30:54
  SPEAKER_01: They always had like this link, like purchase game photos here.
• 30:57
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah, yeah.
• 30:59
  SPEAKER_01: And ones like him like sit like with his head in his hands, like totally concussed.
• 31:04
  SPEAKER_01: Only$14.95.
• 31:06
  SPEAKER_01: You can frame it and put on your wall.
• 31:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 31:08
  SPEAKER_01: So people are really upset about that.
• 31:10
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it's just a it's just a a a bleep show all around.
• 31:14
  SPEAKER_01: Uh so yeah, that was that that incident, probably not super remembered, but but pretty embarrassing for the league, for the Browns, and and you know, uh another James Harrison hit controversy.
• 31:28
  SPEAKER_01: One one fun fact, Steve, Cole McCoy still in the league today.
• 31:32
  SPEAKER_01: Really?
• 31:33
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 31:34
  SPEAKER_00: With the Arizona Cardinals.
• 31:36
  SPEAKER_00: Jeez.
• 31:38
  SPEAKER_00: I remember him not being horrible, but they were just a bad thing.
• 31:42
  SPEAKER_00: That was that was right.
• 31:43
  SPEAKER_00: That's when they had like Holmgren and all his ilk in there, right?
• 31:47
  SPEAKER_00: For a couple of years.
• 31:49
  SPEAKER_00: Well, they've had so many people in and out of Cleveland and they just can't win.
• 31:53
  SPEAKER_00: They might have had a different, I don't think Haslum was the owner.
• 31:55
  SPEAKER_00: Was Haslum, I don't think, was the owner yet.
• 31:57
  SPEAKER_00: I think they had a different owner even back then.
• 32:01
  SPEAKER_00: They they've just had so much turnover in that organization.
• 32:06
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I I don't know what to say.
• 32:08
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, they just that that's like just the it's just the lack of leadership.
• 32:13
  SPEAKER_00: Like, who was their coach?
• 32:14
  SPEAKER_00: Do you know?
• 32:15
  SPEAKER_00: I don't remember who their head coach was.
• 32:17
  SPEAKER_00: Butch Davis.
• 32:18
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 32:19
  SPEAKER_00: No, it was after him.
• 32:20
  SPEAKER_00: Pat Sherrimer.
• 32:21
  SPEAKER_00: It was Pat Sherimer.
• 32:22
  SPEAKER_00: I just looked it up because I would not have remembered that.
• 32:25
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, he was kind of it was just yeah, he was such a nondescript coach, too, and they won, they lost so many.
• 32:32
  SPEAKER_00: Like you said, it was a four and eight season.
• 32:34
  SPEAKER_00: Jeez.
• 32:35
  SPEAKER_00: And Seneca Wallace wasn't a horrible quarterback.
• 32:38
  SPEAKER_00: I remember him like having success in Seattle.
• 32:41
  SPEAKER_00: I guess they brought, was that before I wonder if they brought him to Seattle?
• 32:45
  SPEAKER_00: Because I remember he played for Seattle.
• 32:47
  SPEAKER_00: That was 2008, so that was after the Seattle years, probably, I would guess.
• 32:52
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I I mean I you you almost need like a uh a whole encyclopedia to track all those the Browns quarterbacks and coaches and general managers and everything.
• 33:03
  SPEAKER_00: I think they've had three different owners since they came back, haven't they?
• 33:07
  SPEAKER_00: At least I think at least three.
• 33:10
  SPEAKER_00: I mean it that's just that's why, you know, when you don't have stability at the top, it's tough to win.
• 33:16
  SPEAKER_00: Or if you have like bad, bad owners like Bengals and Pirates and Clippers and who else is like another stinky franchise forever, the Cardinals.
• 33:27
  SPEAKER_00: Although the Cardinals kind of turned it around under the new bidwell.
• 33:31
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, the the just sending him back into that game after like he it's it's just it's just it's just from the top down, it just smells.
• 33:40
  SPEAKER_00: And like you said, that obviously this guy's in horrible, he's been around forever.
• 33:44
  SPEAKER_01: So well, and and and this isn't like this isn't a story from 1974, right?
• 33:50
  SPEAKER_01: No, no, I mean you know, suck it up and get back in there.
• 33:54
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I I get that there was an era when they didn't but by 2011 they cared about concussions.
• 33:59
  SPEAKER_01: In fact, again, that's why Harrison's flagged on that plate, yeah.
• 34:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah because like they they they were at least trying to attempt to take that stuff seriously or show that they were taking it seriously.
• 34:10
  SPEAKER_01: And and literally it's a suspendable uh a personal foul, and you're just gonna send them back on the same drive back into the game.
• 34:20
  SPEAKER_00: That Shermer says tough it out.
• 34:22
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean, just just really embarrassing.
• 34:25
  SPEAKER_01: And I I feel like that's one that uh again people just kind of just moved on with their lives, but it should have been more remembered that was.
• 34:34
  SPEAKER_00: I I I didn't I didn't remember that whole like him being concussed like that.
• 34:39
  SPEAKER_00: I remember he like got hurt in Cleveland, and that was why they kind of got rid of him, and then he like was okay a couple other places, but he's never really been with a team where like they're really good.
• 34:50
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and and you know, I doubt that his I doubt that his father making those comments got him cut.
• 34:56
  SPEAKER_01: I mean he just wasn't very good.
• 34:59
  SPEAKER_01: But Cleveland's petty enough to make that the reason.
• 35:02
  SPEAKER_01: You know, the ownership and everybody else, like you said, it it's a petty enough organization where that that could have factored in.
• 35:09
  SPEAKER_01: Um speaking of petty, let's talk about stadium naming controversy.
• 35:15
  SPEAKER_01: And no, I'm not talking about the I'm not talking about AcroShore Stadium, which is what Heinz Field is now called.
• 35:22
  SPEAKER_00: Uh gonna go back Science Field.
• 35:25
  SPEAKER_00: I know of not the science field of which you speak, Tim.
• 35:28
  SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna go back uh about 20 years earlier and talk about when the Pirates were set to open their new baseball park.
• 35:35
  SPEAKER_01: And there, I mean, first of all, there was a whole controversy, even getting that thing built to begin with.
• 35:40
  SPEAKER_01: We talked about that in a previous episode.
• 35:42
  SPEAKER_01: There was a proposed sales tax increase that they put on the ballot in 1997, and that was gonna pay for the new ballpark, and everybody voted that down, but then they found a way to use public funds to build the stadium anyway.
• 35:57
  SPEAKER_01: So after all that happens, a lot of people say, well, this is being built with taxpayer money.
• 36:03
  SPEAKER_01: We should have a say in what it's named, and it should be named after Roberto Clumeni.
• 36:07
  SPEAKER_01: Because, you know, obviously, one of the great players in pirate history, a real humanitarian who literally gave his life trying to help people.
• 36:16
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, but you know, unfortunately for the pirates, there's no money in that.
• 36:21
  SPEAKER_01: Uh so on August 15th.
• 36:23
  SPEAKER_00: Roberto Clemeni's widow isn't got a pony up a couple mil.
• 36:26
  SPEAKER_00: Right, exactly.
• 36:27
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, can she sponsor the stadium?
• 36:28
  SPEAKER_01: Sorry.
• 36:30
  SPEAKER_01: So on August 6, 1998, the PNC Financial Uh Corporation announces that they have purchased the naming rights to the ballpark for$30 million, which is like super cheap compared to today's standards.
• 36:43
  SPEAKER_00: How long?
• 36:44
  SPEAKER_00: How long is a FNC park gonna be like FNC Park before it changes name to something else?
• 36:49
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's a good question.
• 36:50
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know with I don't know with how many years 30 million bought the.
• 36:53
  SPEAKER_01: weekend.
• 36:56
  SPEAKER_00: Dumb, yeah.
• 36:57
  SPEAKER_00: It's like 30 million, it's us, it's ours forever.
• 37:02
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean, if it's anything like all the other moves the pirates made during that era, then probably they they got off with with less than they could have gotten.
• 37:12
  SPEAKER_01: Um but hey, it's okay to make up for it.
• 37:14
  SPEAKER_01: The city renames the Six Street Bridge.
• 37:17
  SPEAKER_01: That's the Roberto Clemeni Bridge.
• 37:18
  SPEAKER_01: That's the bridge that that uh like if you walk across or drive across, it's it PNC Park Park basically fits fits at the foot of that bridge.
• 37:28
  SPEAKER_01: Uh and they and they put the statue of Roberto Clemeni right at the point where the bridge meets the stadium.
• 37:34
  SPEAKER_01: But even that generates controversy because of the way they place it.
• 37:38
  SPEAKER_01: They have Clemeni's back turned to the city, and people feel like that's disrespectful.
• 37:43
  SPEAKER_01: So that was another controversy.
• 37:45
  SPEAKER_00: Wow, I never really read into that much.
• 37:48
  SPEAKER_00: It's just the statue, guys.
• 37:49
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, you know, Honest Wagner's back is technically to the city too, I think.
• 37:58
  SPEAKER_00: And I think Will Matarotsky is running into the river.
• 38:03
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, come on.
• 38:06
  SPEAKER_00: That's a lot of things to be upset about in the world.
• 38:10
  SPEAKER_00: But the sitting of the Roberto Coleman's statue, it's pretty low on my list.
• 38:17
  SPEAKER_00: But who am I?
• 38:18
  SPEAKER_00: Who am I to criticize?
• 38:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean, I think I think the the idea was they had him facing the outfield of the stadium because he played in the outfield.
• 38:28
  SPEAKER_01: But then his his his back's turned to the city.
• 38:31
  SPEAKER_01: So if you're you know, and then I think I think if I don't quote me on this, but I think the other thing was if you took pictures with it, you could have like the skyline of the city in the background.
• 38:41
  SPEAKER_01: Again, like but that was that was a thing people are like hit his back shouldn't be to the city.
• 38:45
  SPEAKER_01: That's he loved the city, and why is his back to the city?
• 38:49
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, poor Roberto Clemeni is causing controversy 30 years after his death by disrespecting the city having his statue turned the wrong way.
• 38:58
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 38:58
  SPEAKER_01: We all can't be the Mario statue.
• 39:01
  SPEAKER_01: No, yeah.
• 39:01
  SPEAKER_01: Which way is Richie Pilon's rear end facing the arena?
• 39:05
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
• 39:06
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe it should be the Richie Pilon statue.
• 39:12
  SPEAKER_01: All right, the next one, the next one on our list I'm gonna call Grand Theft Pit.
• 39:16
  SPEAKER_01: So uh back in 1999, the basketball season for the Pitt Panthers starts off really well under fifth year head coach Ralph Willard.
• 39:25
  SPEAKER_01: They're ranked in the top 20 that year.
• 39:27
  SPEAKER_01: They're about to knock off number one Yukon at home when they massively blow it.
• 39:32
  SPEAKER_01: We talked about that catastrophe in our top 20 mistakes episode.
• 39:36
  SPEAKER_01: And after that, the whole season just kind of implodes both on and off the court.
• 39:40
  SPEAKER_01: In January, the teams in Philadelphia to play Villanova, and there is a Mike Tyson fight on pay-per-view.
• 39:49
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, if if you remember back then, that's all the big boxing matches were on pay-per-view, and a bunch of the players really want to watch this Mike Tyson fight, but the hotel they're staring at doesn't have pay-per-view.
• 40:01
  SPEAKER_01: So a group of players learn that a friend in Philadelphia uh is going to be showing the fight at their house.
• 40:09
  SPEAKER_01: And the even though there's a curfew, the players aren't supposed to leave the hotel, but they they do so anyway because you know they're college kids and they want to watch this fight.
• 40:19
  SPEAKER_01: And while they're at this house, one of the players, a freshman guard named Fred Primus, inexplicably sneaks into one of the bedrooms and steals$2,200 worth of jewelry.
• 40:31
  SPEAKER_01: I remember this.
• 40:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 40:33
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't realize it was all because of Mike Tyson.
• 40:35
  SPEAKER_00: Who knew?
• 40:36
  SPEAKER_01: It was all because of Mike Tyson.
• 40:37
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 40:38
  SPEAKER_01: And and the day, and so no one realizes this right away, obviously, until whoever owned the home realized they had all this jewelry missing.
• 40:45
  SPEAKER_01: And the day of the Villanova game, which is a couple of days later, Willard has the players warming up when the police burst in and start questioning everyone.
• 40:55
  SPEAKER_01: Like they're literally warming up and about to play Villanova, and the police are coming questioning people and searching bags and everything.
• 41:01
  SPEAKER_01: They find the stolen jewelry, they charge Primus with grand theft.
• 41:05
  SPEAKER_01: It's a big scandal at the time.
• 41:07
  SPEAKER_01: Pitts athletic department had fallen way off way far from Greece in the 1990s.
• 41:12
  SPEAKER_01: And this was really the pinnacle of all that, having your basketball players involved in a felony weather, traveling with the team.
• 41:22
  SPEAKER_01: Steve Peterson, who is the athletic director, immediately kicks Primus and another guy that was involved off the team.
• 41:28
  SPEAKER_01: Some of the other players that went to the house without permission are also disciplined.
• 41:32
  SPEAKER_01: Willward is subsequently fired after that season.
• 41:35
  SPEAKER_01: And it's a big black eye for Pitt.
• 41:39
  SPEAKER_01: I think this one's kind of lost a history, though, because I don't think a lot of people cared about Pitt basketball in 1999, to be honest.
• 41:47
  SPEAKER_01: You know they cared a few years later when when Ben Holland and Jamie Dixon were there.
• 41:52
  SPEAKER_00: Well, Howland, that's the only thing good thing came out of it was they hired Howland after that.
• 41:57
  SPEAKER_00: So and wow.
• 42:00
  SPEAKER_00: I I I remember that.
• 42:01
  SPEAKER_00: I remember that.
• 42:02
  SPEAKER_00: That kind of ended Ralph Willard's like reign here.
• 42:06
  SPEAKER_00: I mean that and like sucking.
• 42:08
  SPEAKER_00: Because I don't I don't think they were that good after that.
• 42:11
  SPEAKER_00: Like that might have like kind of killed the team.
• 42:14
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah.
• 42:16
  SPEAKER_01: I mean it it it's just it's funny in the span of like inside of the span of the same season, they were literally ranked in the top 20.
• 42:23
  SPEAKER_01: And then had they pulled off that win against Yukon, and again, go back and listen to our our top 20 in-game mistakes episode for the details of that, but like they should have won that game.
• 42:32
  SPEAKER_01: It was just a a complete, absolute travesty that they didn't win that game.
• 42:37
  SPEAKER_01: And had they done that, they probably would have been ranked in the top 10.
• 42:40
  SPEAKER_01: Like they were a good basketball team, and then everything just fell off a cliff, and then when this happened, I think they just couldn't recover from it.
• 42:46
  SPEAKER_01: So unfortunate for Willard, he may have been a better coach than than you know we all gave him credit for, but you know, it was just a shame that that that guy, and I'm not sure, I don't I don't know what Fred Primus's history was or family of origin or any of that stuff.
• 43:02
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not sure why he thought it was a good idea to to steal a bunch of jewelry at this house he was at and thinking he wasn't gonna get caught.
• 43:09
  SPEAKER_01: Um but yeah, unfortunate.
• 43:15
  SPEAKER_01: Alright, uh we have time, I think, for one more uh forgotten controversy, and uh we'll go back to to the Steelers for this one.
• 43:24
  SPEAKER_01: So in the 1980s, the Steelers had a defensive back by the name of Dwayne Woodruff.
• 43:28
  SPEAKER_01: Steve, do you remember Dwayne Woodruff?
• 43:30
  SPEAKER_01: Vaguely.
• 43:31
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, number 49.
• 43:33
  SPEAKER_01: He was he wasn't ever a star, but he was he was a solid player.
• 43:36
  SPEAKER_01: He actually played for the Steelers for 12 seasons and racked up 37 career interceptions, which is pretty good, 37 interceptions in his career.
• 43:45
  SPEAKER_01: Uh he's also a really smart player who is thinking a lot about life after football.
• 43:50
  SPEAKER_01: And while he's playing, he enrolls in law school and and gets Chuck Knoll's blessing to do that.
• 43:57
  SPEAKER_01: Uh because, you know, uh Back then, Chuck Knoll definitely was a a larger-than-life figure, and Woodruff wanted to make sure he was okay with hey, I'm going to go to law school.
• 44:07
  SPEAKER_01: I'm going to obviously still play for the team and and show up for practices and everything, but he was going to school at nights.
• 44:13
  SPEAKER_01: And and Knowle is uh is not only gives him his blessing, he also comes out publicly and praises Woodrow for the decision to do that.
• 44:23
  SPEAKER_01: You know, he says, like, wow, this is this is what every player should be doing.
• 44:27
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you're not gonna play football forever, you know, think about life after football.
• 44:31
  SPEAKER_01: So it's it's a good story.
• 44:33
  SPEAKER_01: Um also in the 1980s, Steelers aren't a very good team anymore.
• 44:39
  SPEAKER_00: Uh and the highest.
• 44:41
  SPEAKER_00: I think Dwayne Rufford is just a judge somewhere now, isn't he?
• 44:45
  SPEAKER_00: He is, yeah.
• 44:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 44:46
  SPEAKER_00: So I guess that law thing worked out for him.
• 44:49
  SPEAKER_01: It it did work out.
• 44:50
  SPEAKER_01: It did work out.
• 44:51
  SPEAKER_01: He's uh he's actually, I believe he might have been or is at least a candidate, um, talked about a candidate for the the Supreme Court of the state of Pennsylvania.
• 45:01
  SPEAKER_01: So uh so yeah, a very smart guy, obviously.
• 45:04
  SPEAKER_01: Um but again, in in this era on the field, the Steelers sucked, and the height of that suckiness was the 1988 season, which we talked about in our 80s Steelers episode.
• 45:14
  SPEAKER_01: That's that's to this day still their worst season of the last 50 years, was 1988.
• 45:20
  SPEAKER_01: And Chuck Knoll is really becoming increasingly frustrated by this time, which which you kind of understand, right?
• 45:27
  SPEAKER_01: This is a guy that in the 1970s, he's in the Super Bowl pretty much every year.
• 45:32
  SPEAKER_01: You know, they were in the Super Bowl, right?
• 45:34
  SPEAKER_01: Almost every year in the 70s, and now he can't even get the Steelers past the five-win mark.
• 45:39
  SPEAKER_01: There's a game against the Cincinnati Bengals that season where the Bengals, who who were the AFC's representative in the Super Bowl that year, just obliterate the Steelers by the score of 42-7.
• 45:51
  SPEAKER_01: Uh Cincinnati had a wide receiver back then named Eddie Brown.
• 45:55
  SPEAKER_01: And Eddie Brown is most remembered as being the guy that the Bengals drafted over Jerry Rice.
• 46:00
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, and and you know, while Eddie Brown was certainly no rice, he was still a pretty good receiver.
• 46:06
  SPEAKER_01: And in this game, he torches the Steelers for 216 receiving yards.
• 46:11
  SPEAKER_01: And Woodruff was one of the guys covering Eddie Brown that day, and and Woodruff just did not have a good game at all.
• 46:17
  SPEAKER_01: And it was it was kind of a downer for Dwayne Woodruff because earlier that week he had passed the bar exam.
• 46:23
  SPEAKER_01: Which, you know, I Eddie Brown object followed his own objections.
• 46:28
  SPEAKER_00: Oh my gosh, so many puns we could come up with there.
• 46:33
  SPEAKER_01: Uh but but the bar exam, I mean, I've never taken the bar exam state, but from what I understand, that's not an easy thing to pass.
• 46:41
  SPEAKER_00: Uh I would imagine not.
• 46:43
  SPEAKER_00: I mean so yeah.
• 46:46
  SPEAKER_00: Dwayne Woodruff lost his briefs or I don't know, uh filed an objection and an appeal.
• 46:53
  SPEAKER_00: Can't think of any other legal legal ways to work it in the football.
• 47:00
  SPEAKER_01: He found he was found in contempt.
• 47:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I'm in contempt of football.
• 47:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 47:06
  SPEAKER_01: So so uh so anyway, yeah, kind of a kind of a bummer there.
• 47:10
  SPEAKER_01: He passes a bar exam, but then that Sunday he just gets destroyed by Eddie Brown.
• 47:14
  SPEAKER_01: Well, after the game, Chuck Knoll is asked about the performance, and he just takes a really cheap shot at Widgerif.
• 47:20
  SPEAKER_01: He says, quote, given the way we play today, maybe we should all get law degrees.
• 47:25
  SPEAKER_01: Um,
• 47:26
  SPEAKER_00: and I don't think that's a cheap shot, I mean well,
• 47:30
  SPEAKER_01: it it I think it is.
• 47:31
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it why?
• 47:32
  SPEAKER_00: Did it come off that?
• 47:33
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 47:34
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it just sounds like he's just like, well, maybe we're all gonna need law to I don't know.
• 47:38
  SPEAKER_01: No, it was it was I mean, number one, he's singling out in a 42-7 loss, he's singling out Dwayne Widgeroff.
• 47:45
  SPEAKER_01: And he's basically, I mean, it it's it's it's mean I think it's mean spirited because here like you're basically mocking, he'd just done something great with his life.
• 47:55
  SPEAKER_01: He just passed a bar exam, something you came out and publicly endorsed, and now you're like shaming him for it because he had a bad game.
• 48:02
  SPEAKER_01: Uh it ticks off a lot of the Steelers defensive players.
• 48:05
  SPEAKER_01: They they even come out publicly to support Woodref.
• 48:08
  SPEAKER_01: So it kind of turns the team on Noel a little bit.
• 48:11
  SPEAKER_01: And I think it's I think it's forgotten because I think most of Knowle's final bad years are forgotten in general.
• 48:20
  SPEAKER_01: You know, we tend to remember Chuck Knoll today as legendary Steelers coach four Super Bowls, all-time great.
• 48:27
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but but in 1988, there was a lot of Steeler fans that were just tired of Chuck Noel, tired of sort of the old-fashioned way he coached the game, and and there was these other teams in the in the league that were that were much more exciting to watch than the Steelers.
• 48:43
  SPEAKER_01: And and so yeah, that was I thought that was a cheap shot.
• 48:48
  SPEAKER_00: He was the uh innovator of the run-run pass offense.
• 48:52
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 48:54
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 48:56
  SPEAKER_00: Break break it shake it up in a pass maybe once on once or twice on first or second down.
• 49:02
  SPEAKER_00: But uh I that's that's a shame that it went that way after, like you said, he kind of encouraged him, like, oh good, you're getting your law degree.
• 49:10
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe I don't know, maybe it was just an attempt at humor that fell flat.
• 49:13
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 49:14
  SPEAKER_00: It'll been helpful to actually hear like it in context, you know, like hear the question and the answer.
• 49:21
  SPEAKER_00: You know, maybe he just, you know, is like, oh, you know, maybe we played so bad we all should get law degrees, you know.
• 49:28
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's fair.
• 49:29
  SPEAKER_01: That's fair.
• 49:30
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, Noel not exactly known for his comedy, but but you're right.
• 49:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's hard to tell context, like in a text, like when you said a text message, like sarcasm never comes across in a text message.
• 49:42
  SPEAKER_00: And I imagine the same way in print.
• 49:45
  SPEAKER_01: You know, so yeah, and and and to be fair, that's how the the Steelers players that were were ticked off about it would have been reading it in the paper.
• 49:53
  SPEAKER_01: So they they weren't necessarily there to hear it.
• 49:56
  SPEAKER_00: Um so so yeah, it it again causes a bit of a stir, but you know, the Steelers were just so miserable that year that I think everybody just like yeah, they got bigger problems than Chuck Knoll making a poor-timed comment.
• 50:11
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 50:12
  SPEAKER_01: And like you said, Woodruff Woodruff played out pretty well after that.
• 50:16
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and he I I mean and Knoll hung on for what, three more seasons after that?
• 50:21
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, I mean, the year after that, um, he actually was named the the NFL coach of the year because he had this big turnaround.
• 50:29
  SPEAKER_01: So, I mean, it is his last years weren't all bad, but um, it was just kind of indicative of where things were at that point.
• 50:36
  SPEAKER_01: And and again, you know, he was used to winning, and now he's got these teams that are just bad and he can't rebuild them.
• 50:44
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm sure there was just a lot of frustration happening on his end as well.
• 50:48
  SPEAKER_01: Well, folks, that's that's our list of forgotten controversies.
• 50:52
  SPEAKER_01: Um if you have any ones that I forgot, please reach out to us and let us know.
• 51:00
  SPEAKER_01: You can find the links for how to contact us, our website, our Twitter, and Facebook accounts, that's all in the code description.
• 51:09
  SPEAKER_01: We'll catch you next time.
• 51:11
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks.