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Children Who Murder · The conspiracy

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: All right, before we get into a rough subject, I
• 0:03
  Speaker 1: just want.
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  Speaker 2: To tell you you're looking adorable today. As adorable as
• 0:08
  Speaker 2: a new little puppy. Tell them they look adorable, Rupert. Crime, conspiracy,
• 0:14
  Speaker 2: serial killers, cults, and murder. All things that I love
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  Speaker 2: to consume, and I.
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  Speaker 3: Know you do too, you adorable little button-nosed puppy-dog intelligent
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  Speaker 3: little freak.
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  Speaker 1: Freak! Today, we are.
• 0:28
  Speaker 2: Talking about some kids. You know, children. When you think
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  Speaker 2: of children, you just, you think of.
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  Speaker 1: These innocent little humans just running around, you know, full
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  Speaker 1: of snot and dirt and shit.
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  Speaker 2: I don't know.
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  Speaker 1: But innocent nonetheless. But what you don't expect from them
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  Speaker 1: is for them to be enveloped in criminal activity such
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  Speaker 1: as Murder. And if you don't think that's possible, well,
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  Speaker 1: my lord, you are in for a shock. Because the
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  Speaker 1: youngest person to be tried as an adult in U.S.
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  Speaker 1: history was only 12 years old.
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  Speaker 2: 12. 12 years old. In this video, we're going to
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  Speaker 2: be examining some of the most.
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  Speaker 1: Notorious cases of child murderers and why people seen as
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  Speaker 1: innocent and pure could fall down a path that leads
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  Speaker 1: to deaths. So without further ado, let's unbuckle our seatbelts,
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  Speaker 1: go Mach 5 down the highway, slam on the brakes,
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  Speaker 1: and bust through this windshield into this true crime case together.
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  Speaker 1: Good job. So the first case we're going to talk
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  Speaker 1: about is the case involving John Venables and Robert Thompson.
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  Speaker 1: So in 1993, Liverpool became the stage for one of
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  Speaker 1: the most shocking crimes in British history. John Venables and
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  Speaker 1: Robert Thompson, both just 10 years old, committed an act
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  Speaker 1: that would horrify the nation and spark intense debates juvenile justice.
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  Speaker 1: And before their infamous crime, these boys led troubled lives
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  Speaker 1: marked by instability and behavioral issues. So like I said,
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  Speaker 1: Venables and Thompson came from very challenging backgrounds. Both grew
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  Speaker 1: up in a working class neighborhood in Liverpool where poverty
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  Speaker 1: and social issues were very, very prevalent. Venables in particular
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  Speaker 1: had a difficult home life. His parents had separated and
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  Speaker 1: he lived with his mother who struggled with depression and
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  Speaker 1: Thompson's family situation was equally complex with reports of domestic
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  Speaker 1: violence and neglect. So we're not starting off on a
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  Speaker 1: good foot. If you're already naturally a violent and antisocial kid,
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  Speaker 1: this environment's not going to help you in the future,
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  Speaker 1: or in this case, very soon. And school records and
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  Speaker 1: reports from social services indicated early signs of.
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  Speaker 2: Trouble for both boys.
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  Speaker 1: They exhibited destructive behavior in class and struggled academically as well,
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  Speaker 1: and often engaged in petty crimes.
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  Speaker 2: Such as shoplifting.
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  Speaker 1: And teachers would note their tendency to bully other children
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  Speaker 1: and their apparent lack of empathy. And despite these red flags,
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  Speaker 1: the extent of their potential violence remained unrecognized, which I
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  Speaker 1: don't know, maybe it's just because I watch way too
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  Speaker 1: much true crime, but if my kid was bullying the
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  Speaker 1: other kids or like hurting animals and stuff, you know.
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  Speaker 2: Straight to the asylum. I'm just kidding, I'd get him
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  Speaker 2: to talk to somebody.
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  Speaker 1: So on February 12th, 1993, the lives of these two
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  Speaker 1: boys and their young victim, James Bulger, would intersect in
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  Speaker 1: a tragedy.
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  Speaker 2: That shook the nation.
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  Speaker 1: And the day began like any other at the New
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  Speaker 1: Strand Shopping Center in Bootle, Merseyside. And two-year-old James was
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  Speaker 1: with his mother who momentarily lost sight of.
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  Speaker 2: Him at the butcher shop.
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  Speaker 1: And in those crucial moments, Vanables and Thompson spotted the
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  Speaker 1: toddler and made the fateful decision to lure him away.
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  Speaker 1: And CCTV footage would actually capture this chilling scene of
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  Speaker 1: the two boys.
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  Speaker 2: Leading James away by the hand.
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  Speaker 1: Anyway, only once were they stopped and challenged by witness,
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  Speaker 1: to which they stated James was just their little brother.
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  Speaker 1: And what followed was a prolonged ordeal of unimaginable cruelty.
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  Speaker 1: For several hours, Vanobles and Thompson subjected James to severe
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  Speaker 1: physical abuse, and they inflicted 42 separate injuries on the toddler,
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  Speaker 1: including devastating head trauma from a 22-pound And in a
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  Speaker 1: macabre attempt to cover up their tracks, they placed James'
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  Speaker 1: body on a nearby railway tracks, hoping to make his
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  Speaker 1: death appear as an accident. And the discovery of James'
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  Speaker 1: body sent shockwaves through the community and ignited a massive
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  Speaker 1: police investigation. And initially, the perpetrator's identities remained unknown, but
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  Speaker 1: the breakthrough came with the analysis of the CCTV footage
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  Speaker 1: from the shopping center.
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  Speaker 3: The body was discovered on a railway line right next
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  Speaker 3: to a police station in Walton, Liverpool, over two miles
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  Speaker 3: from where he disappeared.
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  Speaker 1: And the grainy images of the two young boys leading
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  Speaker 1: a toddler away became crucial evidence in identifying Vanables and Thompson.
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  Speaker 1: It's just such a, like, ugh, off-putting and eerie and
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  Speaker 1: heartbreaking photo.
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  Speaker 2: Like, I don't know. It just makes me sick to
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  Speaker 2: my stomach.
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  Speaker 3: Over the next few days, about 60 youngsters were questioned.
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  Speaker 3: Then police were tipped off about two younger boys truanting
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  Speaker 3: from school when James went missing.
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  Speaker 4: So when they said 10-year-old boys, you think, oh, well,
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  Speaker 4: it's got to be done. Information's come in, so we've
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  Speaker 4: got to go and see him and interview him.
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  Speaker 3: But you weren't expecting that they could possibly be the ones?
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  Speaker 4: Oh, no, I didn't.
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  Speaker 1: As the investigation progressed, both boys initially denied any involvement
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  Speaker 1: in the crime. However, under intense questioning, their stories began
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  Speaker 1: to unravel.
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  Speaker 4: It was like pulling teeth. Everything was coming slowly. And
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  Speaker 4: you had to have a lot of patience to interview.
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  Speaker 4: A guy? You saw a young boy like that?
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  Speaker 1: And the turning point came when Venables, overwhelmed by guilt,
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  Speaker 1: confessed to the killing. And his words were, quote-unquote, I
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  Speaker 1: did kill him. What about his mum? Will you tell
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  Speaker 1: her I'm sorry? And it just revealed the weight of
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  Speaker 1: his actions and hinted at a.
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  Speaker 2: Glimmer of remorse, I guess.
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  Speaker 1: And the arrest of two 10-year-old boys for such a
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  Speaker 1: heinous crime just sent shockwaves through the British society.
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  Speaker 2: Bastard!
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  Speaker 4: Come on, come on, come on.
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  Speaker 3: Public anger was almost unprecedented. There was a near riot
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  Speaker 3: the first time the two appeared in court.
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  Speaker 1: And the legal system faced a very unprecedented challenge, how
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  Speaker 1: to try children so young for a crime of this magnitude.
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  Speaker 1: And despite their age, the decision was made to try
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  Speaker 1: Vanables and Thompson as adults, a move that would spark
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  Speaker 1: intense debate.
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  Speaker 2: About the juvenile justice system. And the trial would.
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  Speaker 1: Begin November 1993, drawing intense media coverage and public attention.
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  Speaker 1: And the courtroom proceedings were a somber affair with the
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  Speaker 1: gravity of the crime contrasting sharply.
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  Speaker 2: With the youth of the defendants.
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  Speaker 1: The prosecution presented a case that detailed the brutal nature
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  Speaker 1: of the murder, while the defense grappled with the task
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  Speaker 1: of representing clients who were still children themselves. Like, I
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  Speaker 1: don't know, I can't imagine, like you see murderers on trial, like,
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  Speaker 1: you know, 20, 30, 40, 50, 60 years old, and
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  Speaker 1: you have like no remorse for them, but like for
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  Speaker 1: a little 10 year old kid, you're like, Were they
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  Speaker 1: just confused?
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  Speaker 2: Is it something they saw on TV? Like, I don't
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  Speaker 2: know even how you justify it, but at the same.
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  Speaker 1: Time, like, they knew what they were doing. I mean,
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  Speaker 1: they planned to put him on the tracks to, like,
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  Speaker 1: cover up what they did, and they lured him away.
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  Speaker 2: Like, it was all premeditated. So it's very... hard and confusing.
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  Speaker 1: And throughout the trial, psychological evaluations of Venables and Thompson
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  Speaker 1: painted a complex picture. Experts testified about their troubled backgrounds,
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  Speaker 1: potential personality disorders, and the impact of their upbringing on
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  Speaker 1: their behavior. And these assessments raised difficult questions about culpability, rehabilitation,
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  Speaker 1: and the nature of evil in children. And the presiding judge,
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  Speaker 1: in his summary, described the crime as, quote unquote, an
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  Speaker 1: act of unparalleled evil and barbarity. And the sentiment just
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  Speaker 1: echoed the public's mood and set the tone of the
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  Speaker 1: verdict and sentencing. And both Venables and Thompson were found
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  Speaker 1: guilty of murder and sentenced to be detained, quote unquote,
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  Speaker 1: at her majesty's pleasure, the judge said, which is like,
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  Speaker 1: kind of based. And this intermediate sentence meant that they
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  Speaker 1: would serve a minimum of eight years before being considered
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  Speaker 1: for release.
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  Speaker 2: And the aftermath of this.
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  Speaker 1: Trial saw continued debate.
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  Speaker 2: About the appropriate treatment of juvenile offenders.
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  Speaker 1: Questions would arise about the effectiveness of rehabilitation programs for
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  Speaker 1: young criminals and the balance between punishment and reform. And
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  Speaker 1: the case became a touchstone for discussions about the nature
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  Speaker 1: of evil, the origins of violent behavior in children and
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  Speaker 1: the responsibility of society.
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  Speaker 2: In preventing such tragedies.
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  Speaker 1: And in 2001, after serving eight years, both Venables and
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  Speaker 1: Thompson were released under new identities.
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  Speaker 2: And this decision was met with.
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  Speaker 1: Controversy and public outcry, naturally. And authorities argued that they
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  Speaker 1: were now 18-year-old men and had been rehabilitated and deserved
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  Speaker 1: a chance at a new life.
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  Speaker 2: However, many, including James Bulger's family.
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  Speaker 1: Felt that the punishment had not fit the crime. And
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  Speaker 1: the release came with strict conditions, at least. Both men
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  Speaker 1: were given new identities and relocated to an undisclosed location.
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  Speaker 1: And a worldwide injunction was put in place to protect
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  Speaker 1: their new identities, and a measure deemed necessary due to
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  Speaker 1: the high-profile nature of the case and potential threats to
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  Speaker 1: their safety. Which, I understand, and it is fair as
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  Speaker 1: long as, you know, police are aware of them and
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  Speaker 1: they're being monitored.
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  Speaker 2: But, as we will see.
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  Speaker 1: this protection, however, would just prove to be a point
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  Speaker 1: of contention in the years to come. And the years
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  Speaker 1: following their release have seen divergent paths from Venables and Thompson.
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  Speaker 1: While Thompson has reportedly not reoffended and maintained a low profile,
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  Speaker 1: Venables' story has taken a very dark turn. He had
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  Speaker 1: been recalled to prison multiple times, primarily for offenses related
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  Speaker 1: to child abuse images. And these re-offenses have reignited public
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  Speaker 1: debate about the efficiency of rehabilitation for certain types of
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  Speaker 1: offenders and the long-term consequences of childhood trauma and criminal behavior.
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  Speaker 1: In the case of John Venables and Robert Thompson continues
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  Speaker 1: to cast a long shadow over discussions of juvenile justice
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  Speaker 1: in the UK, and even beyond. And while the Bulger
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  Speaker 1: case shocked the nation in 1993, an equally disturbing crime
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  Speaker 1: had unfolded decades earlier. And that brings us to our
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  Speaker 1: next case, which is the case of Mary B. In 1968,
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  Speaker 1: a young girl's actions would challenge everything society thought they knew.
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  Speaker 2: About childhood violence.
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  Speaker 1: What could drive an 11 year old to commit murder,
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  Speaker 1: not once, but twice? So Mary Bell was born May 26th, 1957,
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  Speaker 1: in Northumberland, England, to Betty and supposedly Billy Bell. And
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  Speaker 1: her early life was marked by severe neglect and abuse,
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  Speaker 1: setting the stage for the troubled child she would become.
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  Speaker 1: Mary's mother, a lady of the night, reportedly expressed disdain
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  Speaker 1: for her newborn, saying, quote unquote, take that thing away
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  Speaker 1: from me, indicating a profound lack of maternal attachment.
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  Speaker 2: From the very beginning.
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  Speaker 1: And the extent of Mary's troubled upbringing became increasingly apparent
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  Speaker 1: as she grew older. Her mother attempted to give her
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  Speaker 1: away multiple times, subjecting her to both physical and emotional harm.
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  Speaker 1: In one particularly alarming incident, Mary was hospitalized after allegedly
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  Speaker 1: overdosing on her grandmother's medication, raising serious concerns about her
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  Speaker 1: safety and well-being within her family environment. And her mother
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  Speaker 1: would actively ignore family attempts and offers to take Mary
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  Speaker 1: into custody, she would just be like, no. Even though
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  Speaker 1: she hated her daughter, she wanted to keep her. And
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  Speaker 1: she would even later allow her clients, she was a
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  Speaker 1: lady of the night, to do things to.
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  Speaker 2: Her daughter as well, which is horrendous and horrible and atrocious.
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  Speaker 1: And these early experiences of neglect and abuse had a
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  Speaker 1: profound impact on Mary's psychological and emotional development. The constant
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  Speaker 1: rejection and lack of nurturing care likely contributed to her
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  Speaker 1: difficulty in forming healthy attachments and understanding empathy. And this
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  Speaker 1: emotional deficit would later manifest in her interactions with others,
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  Speaker 1: particularly in her capacity for violence against younger children. And
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  Speaker 1: on May 25th, 1968, just one day before her 11th birthday,
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  Speaker 1: Mary Bell committed her first murder. She would strangle a
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  Speaker 1: four year old boy named Martin Brown in a derelict house,
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  Speaker 1: supposedly with her friend Norma, who was 13. And initially,
• 13:03
  Speaker 1: Martin's death was ruled an accident due to the presence
• 13:06
  Speaker 1: of an empty bottle of pills found nearby and with
• 13:09
  Speaker 1: an autopsy even ruling out asphyxiation. But this misclassification would
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  Speaker 1: later be revealed as a cunning attempt by Mary to
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  Speaker 1: cover up her crime, demonstrating a level of premeditation and
• 13:21
  Speaker 1: deception unusual for a child her age. Like it's just
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  Speaker 1: so sad and I mean this is at a time
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: where you know like true crime in TikToks and shows
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  Speaker 1: aren't a thing at this point so she This has
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  Speaker 1: to be something she has either seen or experienced to
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  Speaker 1: some degree. Cause like how, how would she know to
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  Speaker 1: do this? So it's just horrible. And in the aftermath
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  Speaker 1: of Martin Brown's death, Mary's behavior took an even more
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  Speaker 1: disturbing turn. Mary knocked on Martin's mother's door, asking to
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  Speaker 1: see him in his coffin saying, quote unquote, Oh, I
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  Speaker 1: know he's dead.
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  Speaker 2: I want to see him in his coffin.
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  Speaker 1: So the morbid fascination and lack of empathy for the
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  Speaker 1: victim were clear indicators of Mary's psychological state. And his
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: mother never suspected her, dismissing her as a curious child
• 14:08
  Speaker 1: who was just being silly. And the girl's involvement in
• 14:10
  Speaker 1: Martin's death became more apparent when they vandalized a local
• 14:14
  Speaker 1: nursery school. And they left behind notes claiming responsibility for
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  Speaker 1: the murder with chilling phrases such as, I murder so
• 14:21
  Speaker 1: that I may come back. And we did murder Martin
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  Speaker 1: Brown off you bastard. And these actions suggested not only
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: a desire for attention, but also a disturbing pride in
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  Speaker 1: their violent act.
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  Speaker 2: It's just like sickening. 11 and 13.
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  Speaker 1: Like I don't even understand how this happens. It's And
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: just two months after Martin Brown's murder on July 31st, 1968,
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  Speaker 1: Mary would strike again. And this time her victim was
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  Speaker 1: three-year-old Brian Howe. And Mary would strangle the boy and
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  Speaker 1: she would take it even further this time by mutilating
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  Speaker 1: his body with scissors. And the coroner noted that the
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: manner of the attack suggested that the killer was a
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: child due to the lack of force used, a detail
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  Speaker 1: that would prove crucial in the investigation. The body would
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: be found with a weak attempt of being covered by weeds, plants,
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: which would point towards a child's involvement.
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  Speaker 5: And I remember standing on this huge concrete block, looking
• 15:21
  Speaker 5: down on the body of young Brian. And from where
• 15:26
  Speaker 5: I was standing, I could see that he was covered
• 15:29
  Speaker 5: with long strands of grass and weeds in a poor
• 15:33
  Speaker 5: attempt to try and hide the body.
• 15:36
  Speaker 1: And as the police investigation progressed, Mary's involvement became increasingly apparent.
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: And during questioning, she provided details about Brian Howe's murder
• 15:44
  Speaker 1: that had not been released to the public, including mentioning
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: the use of scissors and a Gillette razor. And this
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: knowledge led detectives to suspect her of involvement strongly. And initially,
• 15:54
  Speaker 1: Mary attempted to deflect blame onto an imaginary older boy,
• 15:58
  Speaker 1: but her evasive tactics soon began to unravel. And throughout
• 16:02
  Speaker 1: the investigation, Mary's behavior during the police investigation was notably
• 16:06
  Speaker 1: calm and evasive. She displayed a striking lack of remorse,
• 16:11
  Speaker 1: which led investigators to believe she was capable of even
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  Speaker 1: further violence. And the emotional detachment, combined with her knowledge
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  Speaker 1: of the crime's details, painted a picture of a child
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  Speaker 1: with severe psychological issues. And the breakthrough in the case
• 16:23
  Speaker 1: came when Mary's friend, Norma, eventually confessed to witnessing Mary
• 16:27
  Speaker 1: strangle Brian Howe. And this testimony, along with her mounting evidence,
• 16:30
  Speaker 1: led to Mary's arrest. And the revelation that an 11-year-old
• 16:34
  Speaker 1: girl was responsible for these brutal killings also sent shot
• 16:38
  Speaker 1: waves through the community and challenged societal perceptions of childhood
• 16:42
  Speaker 1: innocence once again. And Mary Bell's trial would begin December 1968,
• 16:47
  Speaker 1: drawing significant public attention. And the court proceedings were unique
• 16:50
  Speaker 1: and challenging, giving the defendants young age and the severity
• 16:54
  Speaker 1: of her crimes. And throughout the trial, Mary's demeanor remained
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: very calm and composed, a fact that unsettled many observers
• 17:01
  Speaker 1: and raised questions about her mental state. And psychiatrists who
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: evaluated Mary during her trial noted that she exhibited psychopathic tendencies.
• 17:10
  Speaker 2: No f * * * ing shit.
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: And they argued that her troubled upbringing and experiences and
• 17:14
  Speaker 1: abuse had significantly contributed to her violent behavior, which is
• 17:18
  Speaker 1: completely fair. It's like... double-edged sword. There's literally no winning.
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: Like did she do something absolutely horrendous and awful?
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  Speaker 2: Absolutely.
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  Speaker 1: And she should be held accountable for that. But what
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: her mom did also should be held accountable. Like she
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: should also be thrown in a dark deep hole and
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  Speaker 1: left to rot.
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  Speaker 2: In my opinion. In my opinion.
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  Speaker 1: But the psychological assessment played a crucial role in the
• 17:41
  Speaker 1: trial's outcome and the court's decision to convict Mary of
• 17:44
  Speaker 1: manslaughter rather than murder reflected the complex nature of the case.
• 17:48
  Speaker 1: It acknowledged the impact of her traumatic upbringing on her
• 17:51
  Speaker 1: actions while still holding her accountable for the deaths of
• 17:54
  Speaker 1: Martin Brown and Brian Howe. And Mary would be sentenced
• 17:57
  Speaker 1: and detained at her majesty's pleasure, which was like the
• 18:00
  Speaker 1: last case, an indeterminate sentence that would allow for regular
• 18:03
  Speaker 1: reviews of her progress and potential for rehabilitation. So Mary
• 18:07
  Speaker 1: Bell would serve 12 years in various juvenile detention centers
• 18:11
  Speaker 1: and prisons before being released.
• 18:13
  Speaker 2: In 1980 at the age of 23.
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  Speaker 1: And her release was met with controversy and public outcry
• 18:19
  Speaker 1: as well. And the decision to release her sparked debates
• 18:22
  Speaker 1: about the effectiveness of rehabilitation for juvenile offenders and the
• 18:25
  Speaker 1: appropriate balance between punishment and reform. very similar to the
• 18:29
  Speaker 1: previous case. And upon her release, Mary was granted anonymity
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  Speaker 1: and given a new identity to protect her from potential
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: retaliation and media scrutiny. And this decision was controversial. And
• 18:38
  Speaker 1: in the years following her release, Mary Bell had made
• 18:41
  Speaker 1: efforts to live a quiet life under her new identity.
• 18:45
  Speaker 1: And she largely stayed out of the public eye, though
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  Speaker 1: her story has periodically resurfaced.
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  Speaker 2: In the media.
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  Speaker 1: And one of the most significant developments in her post-release
• 18:54
  Speaker 1: life was her decision to become a mother. In 1984,
• 18:57
  Speaker 1: she gave birth to a daughter. Many questioned whether someone
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: with her history should be allowed to raise a child,
• 19:03
  Speaker 1: while others saw it as a sign of rehabilitation and
• 19:05
  Speaker 1: a capacity for change. And the situation raised complex ethical
• 19:09
  Speaker 1: issues about redemption, second chances, and long-term consequences of childhood crimes.
• 19:14
  Speaker 1: So the story of Mary Bell raised difficult questions about
• 19:17
  Speaker 1: childhood trauma and violence, but what happens when such trauma
• 19:21
  Speaker 1: affects not one child, but two siblings? And that brings
• 19:24
  Speaker 1: us to our next case, our final case, which is
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: Catherine and Curtis Jones, siblings turned killers. The case of
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: Catherine and Curtis Jones would test the limits of the
• 19:36
  Speaker 1: juvenile justice system and the society's capacity for understanding and forgiveness.
• 19:41
  Speaker 1: So Catherine Jones, who was 13 at the time, and
• 19:44
  Speaker 1: her brother Curtis, who was 12 at the time, grew
• 19:47
  Speaker 1: up in a very troubled household in Brevard County, Florida.
• 19:51
  Speaker 1: Their home life was marred by allegations of severe abuse
• 19:54
  Speaker 1: and neglect, creating an environment of dysfunction and fear. The
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: reports would suggest that the siblings endured physical and sexual
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: abuse at the hands of a family member, a trauma
• 20:04
  Speaker 1: that would profoundly shape their actions and future. Catherine would
• 20:07
  Speaker 1: be the first one to say something. She had run
• 20:10
  Speaker 1: away from her home several times at this point. And
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: the second time she did, the Florida Department of Health
• 20:15
  Speaker 1: and Rehabilitation Services got involved saying that they could take
• 20:19
  Speaker 1: her away from the home where she was being abused. However,
• 20:21
  Speaker 1: the family didn't believe the claims she was making, and
• 20:24
  Speaker 1: her brother Curtis was the only one who believed her story.
• 20:27
  Speaker 1: And that was because the same thing was happening to him.
• 20:30
  Speaker 3: In the report, they said there were indicators of abuse,
• 20:33
  Speaker 3: and my brother told me he believed me.
• 20:36
  Speaker 2: And he said, I know it's true because it's happened
• 20:38
  Speaker 2: to me too.
• 20:39
  Speaker 1: And because the children's pleas for help and protection reportedly
• 20:43
  Speaker 1: fell on deaf ears, they felt trapped and desperate. And
• 20:46
  Speaker 1: their father, they claimed, ignored their allegations of abuse. And
• 20:49
  Speaker 1: this perceived betrayal and lack of support from their primary
• 20:52
  Speaker 1: caregiver likely contributed to their growing resentment and anger. And
• 20:56
  Speaker 1: their father's girlfriend, Sonja Nicole Spetz, became a focal point
• 21:01
  Speaker 1: of their anger and frustration. It's possible that in their
• 21:04
  Speaker 1: young minds, warped by trauma and fear, they saw her
• 21:07
  Speaker 1: as an obstacle to their father's attention and a symbol
• 21:10
  Speaker 1: of their ongoing neglect. So on January 6th, 1999, the
• 21:14
  Speaker 1: simmering tensions in the Jones household reached.
• 21:17
  Speaker 2: A tragic boiling point.
• 21:19
  Speaker 1: Catherine and Curtis, driven by complex mix of jealousy, resentment,
• 21:23
  Speaker 1: and a misguided desire for protection, formulated a plan to
• 21:27
  Speaker 1: eliminate Spence. And their actions on that day would irrevocably
• 21:31
  Speaker 1: alter the course of their lives and shock the nation.
• 21:33
  Speaker 1: The siblings obtained access to a 9mm handgun, a weapon
• 21:37
  Speaker 1: that would become the instrument of their desperate act. And
• 21:40
  Speaker 1: as evening fell, they put their plan into motion. They
• 21:43
  Speaker 1: knew what was about to happen, but official reports of
• 21:46
  Speaker 1: the event differ slightly from how Catherine would later describe them.
• 21:49
  Speaker 1: And in the interview with Catherine in 2009, Catherine states
• 21:53
  Speaker 1: Curtis was in the kitchen while she was sitting at
• 21:55
  Speaker 1: the table. And Spetz was in the dining room when Curtis,
• 21:58
  Speaker 1: only 12 years old, opened fire on her first. And
• 22:02
  Speaker 1: Catherine fired the last two shots. And Spetz was hit
• 22:05
  Speaker 1: by four of the nine shots fired. Not that the
• 22:08
  Speaker 1: children knew that at And reporting from Tampa Bay 10
• 22:11
  Speaker 1: on WTSP.com, states that Spetz had been doing a 500-piece
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: jigsaw puzzle and the siblings were sat at the table
• 22:20
  Speaker 1: helping her. And Curtis would be holding his father's handgun
• 22:23
  Speaker 1: in his lap. And amid the shooting, Spetz had attempted
• 22:25
  Speaker 1: to make a phone call, but Catherine would seize it
• 22:27
  Speaker 1: from her before she could, taking it back to a
• 22:29
  Speaker 1: different room where it would be out of reach before
• 22:31
  Speaker 1: coming back to deal with the situation that they got
• 22:34
  Speaker 1: themselves into. And in the immediate aftermath of the shooting,
• 22:37
  Speaker 1: the children attempted to cover up their crime. They would
• 22:39
  Speaker 1: drag the body to the bathtub, leaving a blood trail
• 22:42
  Speaker 1: which they tried to.
• 22:43
  Speaker 2: Clean with bleach.
• 22:44
  Speaker 1: And this chilling display of premeditation is kind of haunting
• 22:49
  Speaker 1: considering their young age. And Catherine had even wiped the
• 22:52
  Speaker 1: handgun down to remove fingerprints while Curtis had a mental
• 22:55
  Speaker 1: breakdown as their new reality began to set in. And
• 22:58
  Speaker 1: their efforts to conceal their actions would prove Futile. Overwhelmed
• 23:02
  Speaker 1: by the gravity of the whole situation, Catherine and Curtis fled. Initially,
• 23:06
  Speaker 1: they went to Catherine's best friend's house, then to another
• 23:08
  Speaker 1: friend's house, and eventually into the woods, and they would
• 23:12
  Speaker 1: stay there overnight. And their absence raised immediate suspicion, and
• 23:15
  Speaker 1: law enforcement quickly began a search. On the following morning,
• 23:18
  Speaker 1: police arrested the young fugitives, bringing them in for questioning.
• 23:21
  Speaker 1: And initially, the siblings tried to maintain their fabricated story,
• 23:25
  Speaker 1: claiming the shooting was an accident. However, under the pressure
• 23:28
  Speaker 1: of interrogation, their facade completely crumbled. And they confessed to
• 23:31
  Speaker 1: the plan and murder of Spetz, revealing the full extent
• 23:35
  Speaker 1: of their actions and motivations behind them. And according to Catherine,
• 23:38
  Speaker 1: both of them claimed they were solely responsible in an
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: attempt to save the other from repercussions. And Catherine had
• 23:44
  Speaker 1: told Curtis to let her take the blame, but he
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: did the opposite. Which is like, I know they murdered somebody,
• 23:51
  Speaker 1: but they were also... like getting abused and now they're
• 23:54
  Speaker 1: trying to save each other.
• 23:55
  Speaker 2: Like it's, it's just, it's all heartbreaking.
• 23:58
  Speaker 1: It's heartbreaking. And the arrest of Catherine and Curtis would
• 24:00
  Speaker 1: obviously shock the community. The idea that these children so
• 24:04
  Speaker 1: young could commit such extremely violent acts against one of
• 24:07
  Speaker 1: their parents, no less, was a travesty. And the decision
• 24:11
  Speaker 1: to put these children on trial would make them the
• 24:14
  Speaker 1: youngest individuals in US history to face adult courts. for
• 24:17
  Speaker 1: first-degree murder charges. It was just absolutely unprecedented before this.
• 24:22
  Speaker 1: There's an age matrix on juvenilecompact.org outlining each state's age
• 24:27
  Speaker 1: at which children can be tried as adults. And there's
• 24:30
  Speaker 1: a column, age juvenile case can be transferred to adult court.
• 24:34
  Speaker 1: And in Florida, it says the minimum age is 14.
• 24:37
  Speaker 1: But both the Jones siblings were below that, making these
• 24:40
  Speaker 1: untraveled waters. And according to Catherine in an interview with
• 24:43
  Speaker 1: Florida Today, prosecutors initially offered her a deal. She could
• 24:47
  Speaker 1: go home if she betrayed her brother and testified before him.
• 24:51
  Speaker 2: And she refused the deal, which it is kind of sweet.
• 24:57
  Speaker 2: It is, it's kind of sweet.
• 24:58
  Speaker 1: They had each other's backs, which is, it's hard.
• 25:02
  Speaker 2: I had told my brother, you know, if anything happens,
• 25:05
  Speaker 2: you know, I did it.
• 25:05
  Speaker 1: You didn't have anything to do with it, which he
• 25:08
  Speaker 1: did the complete opposite and took responsibility.
• 25:11
  Speaker 2: It was both of us back and forth.
• 25:12
  Speaker 1: And Catherine's attorney, Kepler Funk said previous abuse isn't a
• 25:16
  Speaker 1: defense for first degree murder in Florida.
• 25:19
  Speaker 2: Quote unquote, the only.
• 25:20
  Speaker 1: Way we could have presented this was if the kids
• 25:22
  Speaker 1: had been in imminent danger and acted in self-defense. We
• 25:26
  Speaker 1: felt Kathy was a kid who still had something to
• 25:29
  Speaker 1: offer in her life and had nothing but bad things
• 25:31
  Speaker 1: going on. She had a horrific start to her life.
• 25:34
  Speaker 1: And Curtis's attorney, Tony Hernandez, had hoped for manslaughter charge
• 25:38
  Speaker 1: and was heartbroken during his time with the young boy.
• 25:41
  Speaker 1: And Curtis had even asked him if he could bring
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: his Nintendo video game to prison. Man, this case is
• 25:50
  Speaker 1: like different than the other two. The other two were
• 25:52
  Speaker 1: just based off of nothing, but, and I'm not, I
• 25:56
  Speaker 1: don't think that the stepmom was actually doing anything to
• 26:00
  Speaker 1: the kids, but they were just taking it out on her.
• 26:02
  Speaker 1: They're confused, you know, it's just, It's more childish, if
• 26:06
  Speaker 1: you will, I guess, but still awful that they did that.
• 26:10
  Speaker 1: But ultimately, faced with the possibility of a life sentence
• 26:13
  Speaker 1: if convicted at trial, Catherine and Curtis accepted a plea deal.
• 26:16
  Speaker 1: And they pleaded guilty to second-degree murder, resulting in a
• 26:19
  Speaker 1: sentence of 18 years in prison, followed by a lifetime probation.
• 26:23
  Speaker 1: And this outcome, while avoiding the potential of a life
• 26:26
  Speaker 1: behind bars, still meant that the siblings would spend their
• 26:29
  Speaker 1: formative teenage years and early adulthood in the prison system.
• 26:32
  Speaker 1: And as the years passed, both Catherine and Curtis worked
• 26:35
  Speaker 1: towards rehabilitation and personal growth within the confines of the
• 26:39
  Speaker 1: prison system. And they engaged in educational programs and therapy,
• 26:42
  Speaker 1: striving to understand and come to terms with their actions
• 26:45
  Speaker 1: and the circumstances that led them to that. And their
• 26:48
  Speaker 1: re-entry into society as adults, having spent their adolescence behind bars,
• 26:52
  Speaker 1: presented unique challenges and opportunities for reflection. Upon Curtis's release,
• 26:57
  Speaker 1: he had chosen a path of faith and services. There's
• 27:00
  Speaker 1: very little information available about his post-prison life, but Wikipedia
• 27:05
  Speaker 1: claims he is an ordained minister. And if that's true,
• 27:08
  Speaker 1: His journey from convicted murderer to spiritual leader offers a
• 27:11
  Speaker 1: compelling narrative of redemption and the potential for positive change,
• 27:15
  Speaker 1: even in the wake of a terrible action. And Catherine
• 27:18
  Speaker 1: Jones' post-release has been marked by a commitment to advocacy
• 27:22
  Speaker 1: and mentorship for youth at risk.
• 27:24
  Speaker 5: So while we were in there, they helped me cultivate
• 27:27
  Speaker 5: my day for teaching, and we created a curriculum about
• 27:30
  Speaker 5: who you were.
• 27:30
  Speaker 4: In Christ, what your self-identity, what your self worth, and
• 27:33
  Speaker 4: we were working with other broken.
• 27:35
  Speaker 1: Women And Catherine's efforts to use her story as a
• 27:39
  Speaker 1: cautionary tale and a means of preventing similar tragedies just
• 27:42
  Speaker 1: speaks to her personal growth and desire to make amends.
• 27:46
  Speaker 1: And she's very active on Instagram and shares her efforts
• 27:49
  Speaker 1: with anyone who wants to see. And she shared that
• 27:51
  Speaker 1: during her incarceration, she would actually spend the first three
• 27:55
  Speaker 1: years in solitary because she was so young and they
• 27:58
  Speaker 1: didn't know what to do with a child in an
• 28:01
  Speaker 1: adult prison.
• 28:01
  Speaker 2: So they completely isolated her.
• 28:03
  Speaker 1: And during her incarceration, Catherine also explained personal milestones.
• 28:07
  Speaker 2: That would shape her future.
• 28:08
  Speaker 1: And she married a Navy officer who began writing to
• 28:11
  Speaker 1: her while she was in prison, a relationship that offered
• 28:14
  Speaker 1: hope and support as she prepared for a life after release.
• 28:17
  Speaker 1: And the two have started a family, proving that the
• 28:20
  Speaker 1: connection to the outside world likely played a significant role
• 28:23
  Speaker 1: in her rehabilitation process and her ability to envision a
• 28:27
  Speaker 1: constructive future beyond her criminal past. But the case of
• 28:30
  Speaker 1: Katherine and Curtis continues to provoke discussion and debate within
• 28:34
  Speaker 1: the legal and social circles. And it serves as a
• 28:37
  Speaker 1: reminder of the complexities involved in juvenile justice cases, particularly
• 28:41
  Speaker 1: those involving severe trauma and abuse. But this sibling story
• 28:45
  Speaker 1: at least, you know, ends on a bit more of
• 28:47
  Speaker 1: a positive note. If you enjoyed listening to these cases,
• 28:52
  Speaker 1: I know some of them are rough.
• 28:53
  Speaker 2: I guess enjoyed might not be the right word. But
• 28:54
  Speaker 2: if you found these interesting, maybe give the video a like.
• 28:57
  Speaker 1: Let me know what other cases you want me to
• 28:58
  Speaker 1: go over down below or any other subject matter, conspiracies, crime,
• 29:03
  Speaker 1: you know, anything, history.
• 29:05
  Speaker 2: I don't know.
• 29:06
  Speaker 1: I'll go.
• 29:06
  Speaker 2: I'll do anything.
• 29:08
  Speaker 1: I enjoy looking into these things. Go grab some Sourcandy
• 29:11
  Speaker 1: at sour.gg. You can use code Chris for 10% off.
• 29:15
  Speaker 1: And yeah, until then, I'll see you beautiful face in
• 29:17
  Speaker 1: the next video. All right, bye.