Latest / Clean Power Hour / Expert Panel - Mastering Solar Project Success: Speed, Partnerships, and Problem-Solving | EP257

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Expert Panel - Mastering Solar Project Success: Speed, Partnerships, and Problem-Solving | EP257 · Clean Power Hour

• 0:50
  Eric Goodwin: You know, we're really big about this improvement, getting better, and also a lot of collaboration across the industry and and it makes me think of right now we're currently working, I know you're a little bit aware of it, Tim, and I think others might too, but we have a pretty strong partnership with Dean salons, new company, create energy, and he's always been on the Front End of Innovation, and we've had conversations, I think, how we've been involved, about how we integrate automation, how we try to meet some of these labor workforce issues. And we're in the process of putting a demo tracker at their Portland, Tennessee site. And Matt and I, and probably Helge and a few others, we look forward to the, you know, ongoing brainstorming and innovation on how to how to make things cost less, how to make things build faster, how to keep more stuff in the US and so are you
• 1:35
  intro: speeding the energy transition? Here at the Clean Power Hour, our host, Tim Montague, bring you the best in solar, batteries and clean technologies every week. Want to go deeper into decarbonization.
• 1:45
  intro: We do too. We're here to help you understand and command the commercial, residential and utility, solar, wind and storage industries. So let's get to it together. We can speed the energy transition.
• 2:01
  Tim Montague: Welcome to mastering solar project success, speed partnerships and problem solving in the IRA era. I'm Tim Montague, your host, welcome to a clean power hour live event.
• 2:13
  Tim Montague: Check out all of our content at cleanpowerhour.com Please give us a rating and a review on Apple or Spotify. Follow us on YouTube and connect with me on LinkedIn. I'm excited to host what promises to be an incredibly valuable discussion today about accelerating solar project execution while maintaining the quality standards our industry demands.
• 2:36
  Tim Montague: In today's fast paced world, the ability to move quickly without compromising quality isn't just an advantage, it is essential.
• 2:45
  Tim Montague: We brought together four industry veterans who have collectively delivered hundreds of successful projects, and they're here to share their real world experiences and practical solutions. I'm pleased to welcome our panelists. Eric Goodwin, Vice President of Business Development at omco solar, Matt Kessler, Director of solar technology for omco solar, Helge biernath, President and CEO of sunstall and John Mittman, CEO of abodo energy, a bit about these companies. Omco is a major manufacturer of solar racking solutions, both fixed tilt and tracker, with over seven gig watts of capacity.
• 3:24
  Tim Montague: They work closely with both Sun stall, a mechanical installer based in California and working nationally on one to 20 megawatt projects and a Boto energy, a leading commercial solar EPC based in Arizona. These leaders have been in the trenches, solving real problems and developing innovative approaches to project execution. They'll be sharing specific examples from their work together, including an impressive 22 megawatt project, a tracker project, shipped and built in eight weeks. During our discussion, we'll explore how domestic manufacturing and strong supplier partnerships can dramatically reduce project timelines. We'll dive into practical strategies for managing Ira compliance while maintaining aggressive schedules and examine solutions for common field challenges that every solar professional faces. What makes this webinar special is its focus on real world examples and practical solutions. Our speakers will share insights from their successful 100 project partnership, including specific cases like the Wilcox Arizona project that went from initial contact to completion in just eight weeks. So whether you're dealing with supply chain challenges, tight schedules or complex site conditions, you'll walk away with actionable strategies you can implement in your own projects. Let's get started with what promises to be an engaging and informative discussion. So first, Eric and Matt, please introduce yourselves and omco briefly and tell us about this 22 megawatt tracker project, shipped and built in eight weeks. Eric, Thanks,
• 5:05
  Eric Goodwin: Tim, it's great to be on here and talk through some of these projects we've worked together. My name is Eric Goodwin. I'm the Vice President of Business Development for OMCO solar. I'm based in our Phoenix, Arizona facility. Omco is the largest custom roll former of steel in the US. We serve multiple markets with roll form products, both transportation, material handling, industrial and most importantly to us, solar, we manufacture our own single access trackers, fixed solutions and also foundations in one of our six us plants.
• 5:40
  Eric Goodwin: I'll roll it over to Matt.
• 5:42
  Matt Kesler: Hi. I'm Matt Kessler. I'm the director of solar technology and on Coast solar. Eric and I both work together at our plan in in Phoenix and. I work mostly on the product development side. We have a really excellent team of mechanical, structural reliability engineers, electrical engineers, data scientists, software engineers and computer scientists developing both structural components, like the bearing that we can that is one of the strengths of our product helps in project execution a lot, and also new control system that is streamlining the amount of time it takes to bring a site up. And
• 6:20
  Eric Goodwin: I know, Matt, you did ask about the 22 megawatt project that we completed earlier this year in Texas. We had a situation where a customer of ours had a very late change in project scope. We had quoted this project a few times. They went initially in another direction, and the supplier at late stage was not able to deliver, and we were able to put together between the capacity we have in multiple plants, all of the shipments for 22 megawatt tracker project and deliver everything except controls in an initial eight weeks, with the controls coming two weeks after this allowed our customer to be able to maintain project schedules and budget. It's not typical for us to be able to do turn around things this quickly, but we are capable with that domestic supply base, everything being made in house by us to do some pretty special things there, and this project was definitely one where we had to exhaust some creativity and move some things around to be able to meet that schedule. So
• 7:26
  Tim Montague: tell us a little bit about some of the key decisions and partnerships that made this very aggressive timeline possible. And I did show a slide, if you want me to bring that back, just let me know.
• 7:42
  Eric Goodwin: Sure, yeah, if you could bring that up, me for a little bit of context. And again, I'll, you know, let Matt add if there's anything here.
• 7:48
  Eric Goodwin: But you know, the biggest thing we had to do is omco is a steel company, and we buy a lot of steel across multiple markets, and so the biggest thing for us was figuring out where the steel was going to come from, how to move some things around to be able to start manufacturing immediately. We also made some adjustments in our shift staffing in our Phoenix plant.
• 8:11
  Eric Goodwin: And then also we have two different plants, one in Pearson, Indiana, and one in Phoenix, Arizona, where we could produce our own tracker torque tubes. And having both capacity with both of those facilities allowed us to ship from two locations at the same time. So really it was about putting together a very aggressive schedule on manufacturing, and then also lining up our freight partners, and then working closely with the customer on installer support. We had some of our team out as product was being delivered, going through, and in doing a golden row quality check. Also with any training, because Sun stall was not part of this install, but the installer on this project, definitely you benefited from having additional training on you know how to use best practices and follow the install manual. So there was, there was definitely a manufacturing presence, a freight presence and also a field service presence through that eight, eight to 10 weeks, and then as the build started, that progressed very, very quickly as well.
• 9:22
  Tim Montague: Great, Matt. Do you want to add anything before we move on? Only that
• 9:26
  Matt Kesler: Eric touched on this, and I think Helge can talk about this some also, but we get really good feedback on feedback. We get really good feedback on responsiveness when there's a question or where there's an issue at the site, because we're US based, and because we have our whole team in the US, we can quite often respond, you know, within hours or instantly, and help help some little thing that could otherwise cause delays.
• 9:52
  Tim Montague: Great. So let's move on to Helge Biernath, from your perspective, as CEO of Sun stall, what have you found to be the most critical elements of a successful manufacturer, installer partnership? Helge Tim,
• 10:05
  Helge Biernath: thank you for having me. And first, maybe to give some background on Sun stall. So we're doing the installation of trackers and fixed tilt since 15 years in the United States, we've worked from Hawaii to Massachusetts, from Texas to New York in roughly 37 states. So far, we've worked on 1000 projects and probably on 35 different systems. Why am I telling you that? Because we're talking about partnership and why it is important, and you can tell that many of these systems do not or the manufacturers do not exist anymore. So here comes the first thing you know. So it's important to have somebody who is actually still exists, you know, for the lifetime of a project, but for us, from a installation perspective, and why we love our relationship here is starts with with a clear and consistent communication. I mean, Matt alluded to it, you know, there there is feedback immediately when there is a question. But it's also say what you do and do what you say, right? I mean, it's true for us, as well as for, hopefully, our clients, you know, and John can speak to that later. And also for, you know, the racking manufacturer in and supplier there. That's important also the timely and the quality of the materials delivered. It doesn't mean anything for us to get all the the racking without the piles, you know, first. So then we're sitting there. You can look at the at a stack of racking but cannot do anything.
• 11:52
  Helge Biernath: So it's important not only to be in time, but also have the right sequence of the materials so that we can execute, and sure there also has to be the right quality so that we can that we don't have to go back or fix things on the site. So that's very important. And I think that's speaks to Armco, having also four places in the United States where they can manufacture. So even if there would be an issue, it's easy for them to supply the additional material, or, you know, whatever else is needed if we mess something up to to finish the project in time. Very important, you know, different than if you have a supply chain which might be not within the country, you know, or if you're not producing it yourself, and then, obviously, with repetition, and we're going to talk about that later comes the in depth understanding of the system, of the processes of the people. And we really appreciate, you know, the the longevity of the relationship. And when you look at the people right here, Eric and Matt, I mean, we know each other, probably for six, seven years and and there is consistency. We know each other.
• 13:07
  Helge Biernath: We know the people know each other, and so communication is easy. Yeah,
• 13:13
  Tim Montague: I don't doubt that communication is really important. And you also mentioned logistics. Nobody likes it when things show up in the wrong order. I'd like to get John in the discussion here, and then we'll do some back and forth with the three of you. But John, you were involved in Well, first, tell us a little bit about a Boto. You have a very unique name. I'd love to hear what the story is there. And then this Wilcox project in Arizona, take us behind the scenes a little bit, because that is a very impressive eight week timeline. Yeah, sure.
• 13:49
  John Mitman: So the name Obote energy obodo is, it's an EBO word from the Nigerian culture, which means community. So you know, kind of the essence of our the way that we roll as a business is all about community building and kind of engaging through the projects and through the work that we do. A little bit about our company. So we're what I would refer to as kind of an ESCO 2.0 and energy services company, which means that we provide broader efficiency, kind of holistic solutions for our CNI customer base, and really we have a focus in solar and storage integration as well. So we're a developer, EPC and maintenance provider. But, you know, most of that work kind of translates into the development and EPC realm. So the the Wilcox project was a, you know, there it was a tall ask, a tall order, for anyone that knows, you know, how projects come together in the industry, for a commercial project in particular, you know, the the permitting, the kind of existing site conditions, all the things that you typically have to deal with, you know, for a four megawatt project like this, with five interconnections to have it completed, essentially in, you know, eight to 12 weeks, you know, from start to finish, is Just in, really, not just a minor miracle. It's a, I'd say, a pretty significant miracle that everything pulled together. So, yeah, this project, it was five individual fixed tilt on CO tracking systems installed by Sun stall in partnership with a handful of our other, you know, subs that kind of helped us to build that project quickly. I'd say, you know, kind of the core of this project, that the way that we were able to get it done was kind of referring to the old Simon Sinek, you know, book, The Speed of Trust, you know, we I've known Eric. I'm on the board of the state solar trade association, and. We worked together quite a bit with omco in Arizona. But, you know, I trust Eric. I trust omco. And we've had, you know, the success from prior projects umco really brought Sun stall into the fold.
• 16:03
  John Mitman: And you know, all I can say is, throughout the entirety of the project, it was all about communication, organization and flexibility that made that project a success. So we were able to get it done quickly, right on time, you know, permission to operate again, from starting the project essentially October 7, hitting the site, to having substantial completion by December 23 so it's pretty incredible and proud to be, you know, in partnership with the team here.
• 16:32
  Tim Montague: And as you can see here, this is a multi site project, so servicing a large greenhouse facility, but there are several arrays, so it's not a simple project by any stretch of the imagination. Eric and Helge tell us a little bit about some specific challenges that you guys as a team were able to overcome to achieve this.
• 16:58
  Tim Montague: Because this there's there's challenges on every project that's normal, but I'm so curious how you seem to get the stars to align so well on this project?
• 17:13
  Eric Goodwin: Yeah, I'll start on kind of the the supplier side, if you will. You know, as John said when we first started talking about this, and looking at the timelines, the first place that I thought immediately, and that's usually the first place I think about on a lot of projects that Helge has team, and I'm cool get a chance to work on together, is that, you know, we need to pull Sun stall in, because, as what was said before, we have the ability to move very quickly. And so I think the biggest challenge that we we got POS in place. We did a kickoff meeting immediately. And a big piece for for us to provide to our installers and to our end customers is making sure that we've got a set, preliminary set, and a final set of engineering drawings, construction drawings, what's going to be built? How long are the pile is going to be? You know, all the details that go into the build. And so our engineering team did a great job of pulling those together preliminary sets in about three to four days. And then John and helgens team got a chance to review, and we were off and running. And I think that's always a big challenge, because many sites, when you look at foundations, are on difficult terrain, or you're looking for geotech reports, doing pile testing. You know, we had enough data to really move fast on and we're able to make some good decisions on the design, but that was a really big challenge for us to get that into Elvis team hands within the right time so they could start mobilizing.
• 18:52
  Eric Goodwin: We built this project out of our Phoenix Arizona plant. So we had the benefit of literally shipping it two and a half hours to the site. And so everything came out of there, which is obviously one reason we had the ability to build it as quickly as we did. But then at the same time, you know Helge, who does a ton of work in Arizona, and it's California based, and has people everywhere, and I'll let him elaborate on that, but he was able to pull together a team very quickly to to be ready when stuff arrived to the site,
• 19:23
  Helge Biernath: Eric, I think you know, we cannot underestimate, you know how important John's actions were, because, I mean, you introduced us, you know, and we didn't know each other. But here comes the trust and and do what you say, portion in, because John was really believing in what Eric told him, and was listening to what we had to say about, you know, the process and it paid out, you know, at the end of the day, I mean, and because of your decisive action, and I mean, you know, not not only signing a contract, but also, you know, supporting us with all the documentation, listening to our advice in terms of the IRA. We didn't need it that that time.
• 20:11
  Helge Biernath: And we're going to elaborate more on that Tim later, but it was important, you know, just so that we're also in compliance, you know. And we cannot forget that portion these days, right?
• 20:22
  Helge Biernath: I mean, this was also an IRA project, and so we had to be fully in compliance, you know, with with all the apprentices, and also from a payment perspective, with prevailing wage. So I think, you know, my life is much, much easier if my customer is decisive, knows what they're doing, you know, and gives me the signatures and the support we need to be efficient.
• 20:46
  Helge Biernath: And then, luckily, we have the wrecking partner with Armco. Can provide the materials at the point when we need it. I mean, we John pushed on that too. We need the piles first, and we need them right there to make you know your dates happen, and it happened. Eric Ryan and the whole team you know, was able to pull it together. But again, I have to stretch and know that our customer at the end of the day, is important to make these things happen. If they're not organized, they do not have a plan, and we talk about, you know, refusals and that kind of stuff, later, then I'm just hanging in the air. I don't know what to do, because I need decisions. So John, thank you very much for that. Yeah,
• 21:31
  Tim Montague: before, before I go to John here, I want to remind our listeners that you can put q and you can put questions in the Q and A Chat.
• 21:38
  Tim Montague: It's a, it's a tool right at the bottom of your interface called Q and A so please do enter some questions you have for this team, and we'll be happy to answer those live. John, it sounds like this was quite an incredible juggling act, but could you just walk us through kind of Cliff Notes of how the project came together and why was there a sense of urgency to get it done? I mean, one of the phenomenon that can be quite unnerving in the solar industry, is how construction projects tend to really come to a head in q3 and q4 when the weather isn't necessarily the easiest for field work, but give us a little more insight, John into how this project came together. And then, if you would what you perceived as the ability of Helge and and omco to work together collaboratively? Yeah, absolutely.
• 22:41
  John Mitman: So I guess I'll say, first of all, you know, we have the benefit in Arizona of having fairly temperate conditions that allow us to work, you know, year round, without too much issue. But, yeah, I mean this, this project, that kind of the essence of this project coming together was that the owner of this facility was recent, recently purchased at a 2022 tax liability that for the purposes of the tax credits, you know, they had the ability, if they monetize the tax credits in 2024, through, you know, permission to operate, or, you know, commercial operation, to pull those tax credits back, you know, up to three years, and then apply them, you know, retroactively to their liability. So that was, it was kind of a a realization for this, you know, large tax liability, that this was an opportunity to really make it happen, but it needed to have, you know, I would say again, that the trust element was key.
• 23:44
  John Mitman: You know, we had kind of letters of intent which allowed us to get moving, you know, and with working with the hj, the authority having jurisdiction, which was Graham County and sulfur springs Valley Electric Co Op, you know, they they really allowed us to have this kind of permitting process as we're going, as the designs are coming together, you know, in all you know, at least on The front end, from a development perspective, and from the perspective, and from the kind of the nations of the project, you know, I think it took a lot for that to come together. And then when it comes to actually the project, you know, again, working with the sun stall team, and you know how this team and Eric, you know, Eric, and rather, I'm co generally, Eric, I give you a lot of credit, because I trust you
• 24:32
  Eric Goodwin: so much. No, I appreciate you, John. We got a great team around us, that's for sure. Yeah,
• 24:37
  John Mitman: yeah. So, you know, when it came to making the project happen so quickly, you know, driving the piles in the ground, having, you know, the ability to connect with Eric's team, when we had to make adjustments in the field because of existing conditions or refusals, or, you know, modifying the foundation designs for, you know, certain piles here and there. It allowed us to, you know, to help this point. You know, I think we were quite organized in terms of all the information and the key decision points that were necessary to keep the project moving forward. You know, shifting crews from one field to another while we were kind of adjusting, you know, the design on one site, and then again, having the overall flexibility of the jurisdiction in the permitting kind of groups to allow those revisions to happen in a manner that didn't require us to, you know, halt the entire project. So it was a collective effort, you know, I won't say that, you know, we, we were the only reason that it was success.
• 26:28
  John Mitman: It's always a team thing. But I can say from an external standpoint, beyond just, you know, the implementation group, you know, we, we really were blessed with, you know, some good, good situations there.
• 26:42
  Tim Montague: How? Do you want to speak from your perspective, about any particular challenges you were able to overcome?
• 26:50
  Helge Biernath: Now, this project, luckily, we had no further challenges besides, you know, in the beginning, Iraq compliance topics, but we're going to talk about that later.
• 27:03
  Helge Biernath: But we had another project in Illinois recently with the onco system, where we had refusals, which, you know, could happen everywhere. And the beauty with the relationship and how we work together is what Matt spoke about, that, we get answers pretty quickly. So, and we need them, because obviously this could be now a situation where things have to be either taken out and drilled and tested and whatsoever so, or it's just, you know, okay, test it, give us the data, and we cut and drill and we move on, which would be the most favorable solution to to keep the flow going on the field. So again, communication, decisiveness from engineers, you know, having enough understanding and and Dave Wilson, who is here, the head of the group, you know, is great, you know, he looks at the stuff and then he gives you an answer.
• 28:05
  Helge Biernath: And that's what we need. I mean, we need the the experience in the fields. I've seen it many times over the years. If you have inexperienced people, then it's, it's dragging along.
• 28:15
  Helge Biernath: You're going to be too conservative on the solutions, because you have never done this, and I get it. You know, you want to be on the on the safe side. So having that in place is not only helping us to save money, it also helps the customer to save money, right?
• 28:37
  Helge Biernath: If I can just do a testing instead of, oh no, take them all out, and we pre drill and we do it again, and then the change orders are just flying. So this is important, also important, you know, to have that plan B, C and D in place before we even go to the site. We we faced another challenge with the with a different, you know, system just recently in Virginia, where it took, took almost two months to get, finally, the approval for all the mitigations and steps.
• 29:04
  Helge Biernath: And now think about that on the three megawatt job like what we did in Arizona, if I have to wait two months, you know, to just get decisions, you know, to finally move on. And the cost of the cost, I'm sorry, you know, if it has to be concrete, it has to be concrete. But that's the point. That's the comparison of, you know, Can I do it, you know, in 90 days, the whole thing, or do I need to wait two months, you know, to get decisions to finally move on. So that's the beauty of of that relationship, that the the information and the decisions are coming.
• 29:38
  Tim Montague: The Clean Power Hour is brought to you by CPS America, maker of North America's number one three phase string inverter with over eight gigawatts shipped in the US. The CPS product lineup includes string inverters ranging from 25 kW to 350 kW, their flagship inverter, the CPS 350 KW is designed to work with solar plants ranging from two megawatts to two gigawatts. CPS is the world's most bankable inverter brand and is America's number one choice for solar plants now offering solutions for commercial utility ESS and balance of system requirements go to chintpowersystems.com or call 8555847, 55847168, to find out more. Great. We're going to segue to the IRA portion of this shortly, but I we did get a question of clarification. The Level 122, megawatt project was there was also an eight week reference there Eric and Matt.
• 30:47
  Tim Montague: What exactly was the scope for that eight week period?
• 30:52
  Eric Goodwin: Yes, the eight week period was purchased time from the receipt of the purchase order for this project. We had a schedule that we signed up for to deliver all of the piles, all of the tracker structural components, and all of the everything, in essence, except the controllers and anemometers and the electrical control. So piles, bearings, torque tubes, module mounts, drive motors. We were able to deliver that entire project by I think the final date was July 31 and one of the things that was driving that schedule, I didn't mention it before, but the customer was in a situation where they had to take safe safe harbor. Or modules if they did not have at least the initial structural to mount modules. And there was a lot of concern around where you'd store them, paying additional drainage fees, fees, etc, with that. And so we ended up delivering the final controls within the next two to three weeks, which was what we agreed on in the schedule. So that was kind of the scope around that
• 32:06
  Tim Montague: great before we move on. Does anyone want to say anything else about these specific project collaborations?
• 32:15
  Eric Goodwin: If I can add one thing on the Wilcox project again, John, we appreciate the partnership and and with with Helge and his team over the last 60 plus years, and we're looking forward to growing that we're actually going to be doing the ribbon cutting for the Wilcox project on March 6 in Arizona, and so we're excited to see that come to a finalization. But really enjoyed the collaboration, and I think in probably many of the individuals listening on on this webinar today. There's tremendous amount of examples of how we collaborate in this industry together, and this is only one of them. And so, you know, I'm always great to hear stories about those type of things and to be part of it. And so it was just really fun, fun project to do
• 33:02
  Tim Montague: great. So for all of the panelists, we're all navigating Ira compliance while trying to maintain aggressive schedules. What practical strategies have you developed to balance these demands? Maybe we'll start with you, John and John and Helge.
• 33:19
  Unknown: Yeah. So
• 33:22
  John Mitman: I think, as it relates to the IRA compliance, you know, for prevailing wages, you know, for projects above, you know, one megawatt AC, you know, as just kind of one example, you know, we, in certain cases, from a design and development standpoint, you know, we have the ability, on the commercial and industrial side to, you know, kind of figure out ways to work around it. So, just as an example, we have a multi family development project that, you know, contiguous property boundaries create a bit of an issue where, you know, if you combine the systems, they can get above one megawatt AC, if you're not, you know, I would say, organized in terms of how the system sizes come together. But, you know, we we always approach it with that mindset. We either try to, you know, dial systems back, or kind of adjust, you know, DC to AC ratios to make sure that we stay below those thresholds. Or if we're above those thresholds, you know, we're committing, you know, full full steam ahead. And really what that requires, you know, I think because the IRA prevailing wage stuff is so new for most of the industry. You know it. It really comes down to working with subcontractors, with our team that you know, so they understand the forms that are necessary, you know, the forgetting the actual number of the form, you know, for the, you know, kind of wage, wage reporting. But in any case, you know, it's working with team members that know how to, you know, navigate those elements.
• 34:52
  John Mitman: Otherwise, on the IRA side, I think, you know, we're working with the direct pay and elective pay and some of those other kind of more creative things. Which is more so a filing, filing thing, you know, for example, just nonprofits, nonprofits that, let's say, for example, five, 1c, threes, they, you know, they may or may not have established the tax filing years, churches, for example, just, you know, end on this example where now, with the direct pay grant, they have to establish their filing year.
• 35:30
  John Mitman: Well, we have the ability to basically move quarter by quarter in order to establish, you know, the right year for when those direct pay grants, you know, can actually apply and kind of be recognized as quickly as possible. I know that's not really common, and kind of the, you know, we don't see too many ground mount systems that have that component included in it, but it's something generally that we that we've learned to navigate. Yeah,
• 35:55
  Unknown: and add on. Okay,
• 35:59
  Tim Montague: before you chime in, Helge, there's a question from the audience about the applicability the IRA incentives. Is this something that developers and installers have really a choice about? I would argue, no, you, if you're doing a megawatt scale plus project your owner, whether that's an IPP, or a host of the project is going to want to take the full advantage of the ITC, and that means Ira compliance, but Helge, what is your perspective on, on ra Ira compliance?
• 36:38
  Helge Biernath: I think Tim, we have to clarify the terms. I think it should be called Tax.
• 36:41
  Helge Biernath: Taxpayer. So the taxpayer is the one actually getting the benefits, whoever that is, you know. And I've took quite some lessons, you know, over the last couple years. And by the way, we've done, you know, prevailing wage jobs already in 2015 so our organization has been set up, you know, for two years, three years, you know, to be compliant with all the inflation Reduction Act requirements. So number one, I think, you know, most important. Sorry, we're coming back to communication, but the expectation management and the understanding of the requirements, you know, is key.
• 37:19
  Helge Biernath: And it comes back to the taxpayer, because sometimes I have the feeling shit goes down the drain, sorry. And everybody thinks that the sub at the end of the day is going to decide, you know what the people are going to be paid and what the requirements are and what the documentation is, sorry. No, no, that the opposite. You know. It starts at the head the taxpayer determines, you know what has to be paid, how it has to be documented, because they have to then report back to the to the IRS. And why am I saying that?
• 37:47
  Helge Biernath: Because I'm seeing it day in day out, that, you know, it's not clear what kind of documentation. And on top of that, if you work in California, if you work in Illinois, if you work in other states, there might be also state requirements where you have to fulfill and send more documents, even for the state, which might be different, especially in California and Illinois, where you have one set documentation for the IRA compliance and one set, you know, for the state.
• 38:15
  Helge Biernath: Just to complicate things here, key to me is, you know, again, the communication to have the right IT infrastructure in place, to be able to track, to report, to record, and then to pay the right amount, and also to track the percentage of the apprentices. And then another little key nugget here, which John and US did prior to executing the project. If you can get an lntp prior for 45 days, because if you can't get the apprentices, which in a growing economy, I don't see that everybody can get the apprentices they need, which means you need a negative notice, and negative notice needs 45 days before construction starts. Little nugget here, lntp, for that, you know, even though you don't have a contract, helps you tremendously to overcome that hurdle. Otherwise you might be you're getting in trouble. So that's, that's how we navigate it. And, yeah, and
• 39:23
  John Mitman: I think just adding to that, you know, in Arizona, just as an example for heavy machine work, you know, kind of the apprenticeship programs you have to write to meet the prevailing wage, you know, and apprenticeship requirements, you need to have an officially designated apprenticeship program, you know, and for all these different trades on a typical project as they're coming together. You know that really, at the state level will vary across the board. So again, it's, it's about a, knowing what you're doing, knowing what you're looking for, and B, being able to, you know, find and verify those resources so that you can, you know, check that box.
• 40:01
  Tim Montague: And Eric tell us about domestic content, because there is a domestic content adder in the IRA. And of course, OMCO is a domestic manufacturer.
• 40:09
  Tim Montague: But give us the big picture on that. What is, what are installers and developers trying to achieve? It's, it's non it's completely non trivial, yes,
• 40:23
  Eric Goodwin: definitely. From a supplier standpoint, when you look at the IRA and there's been a couple different levels of guidance from Treasury, from the initial bill passing, you know, onco has always had the same business model since day one, which is US manufacturing US Steel. So we've benefited. We've been able to add a lot of value to our customers through this domestic content capabilities.
• 40:46
  Eric Goodwin: But what we look at is it really varies by product. Our fixed tilt product is a very clear requirement of 100% iron and steel, which we meet, and so normally that's that's pretty, pretty easy to be able to present. The tracker, on the other hand, is a little bit more complicated, because it's looked at as a manufactured product before we had the recent table 15 Treasury guidance, there was a pretty involved formula to take a look at, domestically made parts versus overhead and a couple of other cop that. We call it the cost model calculation to get the domestic content, the safe harbor template model that's been released a few months ago and updated, actually this week, earlier this week, it really provides a benefit to the taxpayer, to our customer, because they can basically take a table and look through everything from inverters to modules to trackers to. And they can be able to break out what's domestic and what isn't. And so we make all of the structural components ourselves and our own factories. So we have one of the highest domestic content, and it's really case by case, presenting to the customer what they need from a domestic content. But then the other piece of it is the quest that we have. And by the second quarter, by the end of second quarter, we'll have the option for 100% domestic content tracker. We're about 88 right now. 88% drive motors and controllers are drive motors and dampers are the two components that were finalizing us capabilities and so now it really varies customer by customer, because the safe harbor template model also gives a high weight on us modules. So if you have a first solar module, there's other module companies, even our partner create energy with recreate we'll have a US module very, very soon, where it's weighed very heavily. And sometimes you don't need that 100% domestic tracker. Maybe, maybe 50, 60% is okay. So really it's about now directly to that table, presenting what we make. Also a lot of times we have to do certs, whether we track steel certs from from the mill, we also have lot traceability on all of our products through each of our manufacturing plants, so depending on what level of documentation detail that the customer needs, we're ready to supply it. But I do think that that sent that table has made it a lot easier to navigate. And the last part from a supplier that we take into consideration is also the 45x manufacturing tax credit we benefit from that based off the torque tube tax credit, I believe we're the only tracker supplier in the US that actually makes our own torque tubes in our own factory, both in Indiana and in Phoenix. I could be wrong, but I believe most, most others are sourcing that, and it's unknown whether they have to share that tax credit with the manufacturer or how that set up. But we do get the opportunity to factor that tax credit, and many times, helps us be more competitive.
• 44:00
  Eric Goodwin: Kind of levels the playing field as far as our pricing concerns.
• 44:04
  Eric Goodwin: And then we also get a tax credit what they call fasteners, which would be bearings, module mounts. And as we get to 100% domestic content option, there's also a production tax credit that's added. So So I think that 45x has been been huge for us as well. Obviously, with the new administration, there's a lot of things happening, a lot of moving parts. But I know, you know, the industry is fighting really hard to to to keep those parts of the Clean Energy Credits. But from a supplier standpoint, you know, there's just, it just varies by project of what we're being asked to provide.
• 44:37
  Tim Montague: And of course, the question that everyone is asking here we are, January 23 Donald Trump has just re entered the White House, and the question that everyone's asking is, is he going to try to destroy the IRA?
• 44:50
  Tim Montague: Personally, the signal that I see is that he will make a lot of bluster about attacking the IRA, but at the end of the day he will not be able to kill or in any way significantly harm the IRA because of the economic benefits that it is giving so many red states today across the US. But if any of the panelists want to comment, it's it's still too early to know, of course, but it is worth commenting on, I think, if anyone wants to. So
• 45:32
  Helge Biernath: from my perspective, I just had a conversation with a developer, and they were very happy, you know, that they believe that the cost of capital is going down and that a lot of projects were scrapped because of the high cost of capital. So there might be some, you know, cosmetic change on the IRA. And I am with you, Tim, I see it the same way at the end of the day. We just need to be cost competitive and we need to be fast. Look at the tremendous goals they have now with with AI. I mean, if they really want to build that in Texas or somewhere, you know how much energy they need, I mean, to build a nuclear plant, you know, in 10 years. I mean, if that is AI, then sorry that that's going to be too slow. So if we're fast, if we're cost competitive. It doesn't matter.
• 46:24
  Helge Biernath: We're going to win. Yeah,
• 46:27
  Eric Goodwin: I think you're right on the money, Helge, and I agree with you in general, Tim, as far as what we hope will happen with the new administration, I do know a couple points that I'd like to make is we're fortunate to be on the board. Of our Federal Trade Association, Sia. And you know, the focus has been and I think that you've done a really good job over the past year, year and a half, and especially now, no moment like the present in really having a bipartisan message and really messaging the value of what we're doing and the growth of solar. And then also, I'd heard a stat somewhere. I may be a little bit off, but roughly about 75 to 80% of the new manufacturing facilities, including our sixth factory in Huntsville, Alabama, that's a little bit over a year old, are in red states, and there's a lot of jobs being added. And I think there's a even more improvement on Republican support, bipartisan support for the benefits of solar, in some ways because of the items that Helge put out.
• 47:31
  Eric Goodwin: You know, we've done a good job of getting costs on utility scale, especially developing battery storage. And so, you know, I believe that we're going to have the opportunity to grow this industry hopefully protect these energy credits, clean energy credits. But, you know, we've really, I think the train is really moving right now and and hopefully the uncertainty that we we feel now will will pass sooner than later, because anytime you do have uncertainty, it has an impact. I'm overly optimistic for the most part, I'll
• 48:06
  John Mitman: mirror the optimism, I think. Another point that I've made, yeah, another point that I've made, you know, which is, you know, if you look at kind of the biggest investment groups, you know, behind the energy transition.
• 48:24
  John Mitman: It's a lot of the banks, you know, it's a lot of the, you know, insurance companies with the tax equity it's a lot of the oil and gas companies that are investing in kind of what their future, you know, holdings will look like. And at the end of the day, many of those organizations, you know, they have some conservative alignment. But you know, there's so much inertia behind the energy transition that, you know, I Tim, I agree with your comment. I think there's, there's bluster. You're right.
• 48:47
  John Mitman: The executive order that was made yesterday, you know, basically holding up distribution of funds from the IRA. I think that at the end of the day, there's so much, you know, bipartisan support for the energy transition that you know, again, it's, there's, there are plenty of reasons to be optimistic.
• 49:10
  Tim Montague: Great. Well, let's segue in our in our final 10 minutes here to partnerships and umco and Helge at Sunstall, have been working together on over 100 projects. There's this reference to Caldwell. I'm not sure what that is, Eric, could you set the table a little bit?
• 49:31
  Tim Montague: And then I've also got an informational slide slide about this. And then I just want John to know that you should also feel free to address this theme, which is how EPCs, installers and manufacturers can work more effectively together. Yeah,
• 49:52
  Eric Goodwin: I definitely can Tim with a little bit more kind of context on the 100 projects our customer, Helge and our team, Sunstall and OMCO have worked on what will soon be project number 100 for Coldwell solar in California. All these projects are in California, mainly Central Valley, mix of fixed tilt tracker projects. And you know, it really is. And in addition to these 100 projects, we've probably done another 50 for including the Wilcox one with, with the Sunstall team over the last six years. And so, you know, having the ability, you know, we appreciate the opportunity to have repeat business with our customers, to be able, I mean, we feel like you're only as good as your last day. We feel we don't want to take anything for granted. And we've been fortunate to have some long term partnerships.
• 50:40
  Eric Goodwin: Again, obviously, working closely with Helge and team.
• 50:44
  Eric Goodwin: We're starting one with John's team at a boat, oh, which we're really, really excited about, but the Cold War one's pretty unique, and for them, you know, when we look to communicate it and message this and celebrate it when it happens, you know, it also helps our customer, when they're looking at competing in that in the Central Valley, in their markets, to be able to show how much scope they've done. But you know, we were just few months ago, looking at all of our projects and talking to our customer. We try to get face to face a few times a year, even if it's not already plus and and realize that we were this close to this milestone. And so there's just a lot of trust and a lot of work, and no shortage of challenges. We've got a couple projects in that 100 that I used to have hair a couple years ago, and I don't so, but yeah, it's, it's been pretty exciting and and how. I don't know if you want to add anything on
• 51:43
  Helge Biernath: that. Yeah, thank you. First of all, you know for that partnership, you know to get to this milestone, I remember the days, and you do too, Matt, when we both were walking the side behind me. So this is an 11 megawatt, not a Coldwell project, but one of the milestones in the beginning of our relationship, because Matt and I were talking about, how can we improve the system? And that's what's about. It's all about as as Eric said, you know, it's, it's about the future, not the past. I mean, it's great for John, you know, if we're talking about the past, but his project is in the future, and he wants to have the best service, the best product, you know, long lasting and on time. So we always have to be on the tippy toes all together, you know, to provide, you know, the service, the product you know, for the future. But obviously the past is giving you some guidance and and is showing you, kind of, the, hopefully, the path for the future. To me, it's important that we are still working on, you know, continuous improvement. We're talking about, you know, automation down the road. How can we do that?
• 52:51
  Helge Biernath: How can we bring in robots into our whole process? You know, it's important to have the right system. It's important to understand how that works together and so step by step.
• 53:01
  Helge Biernath: You know, we get better and better, and obviously we need to keep the training, the teamwork, the communication, on the same level as we have it today. And I think then, you know, we're going to see 200 400 500 projects together.
• 53:21
  Tim Montague: Matt, could you comment a little bit about how you at omco have worked with Helge and other installers on modifying your products over the years. So
• 53:34
  Matt Kesler: yeah, one of the things that was mentioned earlier was, was that the design of the product, and particularly the bearing, one of the things we worked on very hard early on and we make improvements on is how the bearing allows the tracker to move smoothly with low energy, but also in the installation process, how adjust, adjustments within the bearing can be used so that you're less likely to have to replace the pile. You have some pile that's not installed perfectly for some reason, some some rock or something. Do you have to cut it and replace it?
• 54:07
  Matt Kesler: Or can you make an adjustment in the bearing? And so we have several dimensions, several ways that bearing can be used to achieve that. So that you're off to the races with the rest of the project. You're not bringing the pile driver back out. You've done enough sites. I think you may experience that three times on some site or one time on some site, but if you can deal with it so you don't have to bring the driver back out to the site, you might save days. Yeah, I
• 54:33
  Helge Biernath: think, you know, sometimes, you know, our colleagues of engineering at a desk, you know, forget the environment and forget the real life out there. And as I said, you know, we've worked from Hawaii to Massachusetts, so we've seen, you know, the challenges in terrain and in subsurface conditions that we need all the tolerances and support we can get, you know, from the designers from the factory to overcome these challenges. Because I can tell you, we did a project from a competitor of yours where the piles have to be driven perpendicular. Just imagine that they have to be perpendicular.
• 55:10
  Helge Biernath: Now, if, if you have ever seen pile driving, if you lift the head, you know, the pile does what it wants you, you've been into the in the perfect position. But because of, you know, the the tension in the pile, it just goes somewhere.
• 55:24
  Helge Biernath: Now, what am I going to do? I didn't do anything wrong. I did the best I can, but still, I have to overcome these challenges. So, Matt, yes, thank you for that. And
• 55:35
  Eric Goodwin: so if I could add just one item, and it really just made me think hearing Matt and Helge talk about innovation.
• 55:43
  Eric Goodwin: You know, we're really big about continuous improvement, getting better, and also a lot of collaboration across the industry and and it makes me think of right now we're currently working, I know you're a little bit aware of it, Tim, and I think others might too, but we have a pretty strong partnership with Dean salons, new company, create energy. And he's always been on the Front End of Innovation, and we've had conversations, I think, how we've been involved, about how we integrate automation, how we try to meet some of these labor workforce issues. And we're in the process of putting a demo tracker at their Portland, Tennessee site. And Matt and I, and probably Helge and a few others, we look forward to the, you know, ongoing brainstorming and innovation on how to how to make things cost less, how to make things build faster, how to keep more stuff in the US. And so again, I think we do a lot of things in our industry around innovation. I think the solar industry doesn't get as much credit sometimes as we should, but it just kind of came to mind of larger examples that we're talking about.
• 56:38
  Helge Biernath: I just saw the question here, and yes, innovation is great. Eight, but also repetition and profit. To be professional on what you do on as a standard is important.
• 56:49
  Helge Biernath: So to answer your question, here, we have kickoff meetings for each and every project. And that's important because a you talk about the nitty gritty details of each project, you share you know, amongst you know, the internal team, what we just encountered, maybe also with a customer, yeah, maybe also in that region. So to share, not only the lessons learned, you know, from the design and the product, but also the region you know, which can have a tremendous impact. Think about animals. Think about, you know, whether think about all these things, you know, which are important to be able to execute or not. He's
• 57:30
  Eric Goodwin: making a great point there. Okay,
• 57:34
  John Mitman: well, just kind of bringing back to the partnership question. Now, I as a development EPC company, you know, we have, I guess, a kind of a slightly different perspective. But, you know, I think at the core of it, it's really about pricing, very pricing at the end of the day, and there are different reasons why, or, you know, kind of elements there that contribute to that. But, you know, from a manufacturing perspective, with omko, you know, I think that the key things for sure, having clarity around how, they price projects, so that, as we're developing something, if we anticipate our day conditions, or whatever, we know, rough order of magnitude plus or minus, you know, what kind of range we're talking about, consistency, you know, with how pricing is done as well. And, you know, communication about the impacts that we might be anticipating because of, you know, supply conditions, you name it, I think, on in the same vein, you know, relative to development, you know, like sun style, for example, we want to have a sense of what, what is their kind of, their pricing methodology when they're, when they're bidding a project to build, you know, if it's a certain distance away from a main, you know, travel destination, you know, how do we anticipate what that build cost is going to be? And then, in a similar vein, when it comes to actually, you know, the EPC work, you know, it's about forecasting, right? The partnership element we were, we're sharing that information with each other. We trust each other enough that, you know where we believe this will be a good fit for you guys. It's going to be coming down the line, you know, six months from now, you know, do you have the resource availability? Do you have the ability to access this particular, you know, labor market near, near where we're operating, you know, at the end of the day, you know, how accountable Are you relative to those commitments and the scheduling? You know, with that scope in mind, so again, you know, I can't say enough good things about the omco team and Sunstall. You know, I think the boiling it all down, you know, we, we, as a development EPC company, are very comfortable working with these two because we know what we're going to get and it's repeatable.
• 59:38
  Tim Montague: Great. Well, I want to thank our panelists today, Eric Goodwin with omco, Matt Kessler with omco, Helge Biernath with Sunstall, and John Mittman with a Boto. We will be publishing the recording, and you will receive an email notification when that goes live in about a week and a half.
• 59:57
  Tim Montague: Please check out all of our content at Clean Power Hour live. Give us a rating and a review on Apple and Spotify, follow us on YouTube and reach out to me on LinkedIn. Thank you all for being here. And I'm Tim Montague, let's grow solar and storage. Take care. Everybody.
• 1:00:13
  Tim Montague: Take care. Thank you.
• 1:00:17
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