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I Relapsed Because I Stopped Doing This · Recovering Out Loud

0:00
I found myself driving in the area that I used to use and just
0:04
driving around and there was no reason for me to be in that
0:07
area. So looking back, it was like,
0:10
did I want to see somebody that was using and then maybe join
0:13
them? Or in my mind I was like, Oh no,
0:15
I want people to see that I'm doing really well, but I really
0:18
wasn't doing well. Maybe on the outside, right
0:21
manager to sober house, you know, sponsoring all these women
0:24
doing the 12 steps, going to meetings.
0:26
But I really wasn't doing the work internally and I wasn't
0:31
telling on myself. And I remember we had a
0:36
gratitude meeting at my at my group.
0:38
It was just after Christmas and I went to the meeting and then
0:42
the person that I was dating at the time called me and told me
0:45
he had relapsed. And my best thinking said I'm
0:49
going to go and save him. And I was in no place to do
0:53
that. I should have asked maybe some
0:54
of my guy friends to to go and help him.
0:57
And I started driving. And you know, it talks about
1:00
like the mental obsession, but there's also like a mental blank
1:02
spot. I knew in that moment that I was
1:05
going to, I was going to pick up that night and I thought I was
1:08
just going to do 1, which is funny when you say it out loud,
1:11
but I really did think that. And and then I was off to the
1:14
races from from that moment on. Hi there, welcome back or
1:19
welcome to Recovering Out Loud Podcast, the show where we get
1:22
real about mental health and addiction.
1:25
I'm so glad you're here. If you or someone you love is
1:28
struggling with drugs or alcohol, please reach out for
1:31
help. Send me a message on all social
1:34
media platforms at Recovering Out Loud Pod or by e-mail at
1:39
recoveringoutloudpod@gmail.com. You are no longer alone.
2:00
I went to a wedding last night and I'm just like, really tired.
2:03
I didn't. Yeah, it was good.
2:06
It was. It was more, it was a high
2:09
school reunion almost, because it was like all these people I
2:12
went to high school with. Oh, wow.
2:13
And so that can be kind of overwhelming sometimes.
2:17
Yeah. But like, it was most of most of
2:19
my friends, which was nice. It's interesting to see.
2:23
So I'm in my 30s and most of the people that were in their mid
2:27
mid 30s, I would say the amount of people that are still going
2:32
like hard. And that's not to say that see
2:35
my, my assumption is when I see people like that, I'm like, oh,
2:37
they must be doing it all the time, right?
2:39
Because like, that's how you know, I do it.
2:41
I'm assuming that's how you. Did it too.
2:43
And that's not the case, right? Like those people are probably
2:46
not going to go for another month and they're going to be
2:48
fine. And so I made a video about this
2:51
this morning. But one thing that really helps
2:53
me 'cause I still get, and again, I'm early on, again in
2:56
recovery, but I still get those, those triggers, those thoughts
2:59
of what is it for me, it's like, oh, that looks fun, right?
3:05
That that looks fun. Like fear of missing.
3:07
Out. Yeah, that would be nice.
3:11
I remember when and then like insert fun memory right of of
3:16
doing like coke, you know, I don't know there's probably like
3:19
AI probably have like a 4 minute, you know, memories of
3:24
when it was fun right those like 4 minute intervals and then
3:27
after that it was just absolute hell.
3:29
But one thing that really helps me is excuse me, I just I just
3:33
don't use like that, right? I don't drink like that.
3:35
I'm still going today. If I if I picked up of.
3:38
Course, of course. And then Sunday morning I'm
3:40
still going and Monday morning I'm still going.
3:44
So that, that, that gives me comfort, right?
3:45
But a lot of time. And that's why I was looking
3:48
forward to this today too, because like I have to talk
3:50
about it, right? Like I can do all these things.
3:51
I can pray, I can all these tools that I was taught in
3:54
recovery. But like, if I keep it in here,
3:56
that's how I go back every single time, right?
3:58
Absolutely. So thanks for coming down,
4:01
Allison. I appreciate it.
4:04
Why don't you start with tell us a little bit about yourself and
4:08
what you do for work. OK, so I'm Allison.
4:14
I've been in recovery for going on 7 years.
4:18
I've worked at Addiction Rehab Toronto going on five years
4:24
before that. I, my life looks a lot
4:27
different. Active use was a really long
4:32
time. I'd say about 16 or 17 years.
4:35
I was using hard drugs at the beginning.
4:37
I mean, when I was 1617, it was fun.
4:40
I can honestly say that. And then, you know, at about
4:44
1819 years old, it started to become problematic and, and my
4:51
life just went downhill. I wasn't employable.
4:53
I, I couldn't keep a job. I would, I would go to multiple
4:57
different schools and, and get different, different degrees for
5:00
things and, and never be able to stick to anything.
5:05
And then in 2016, I went to my fifth treatment center by that
5:11
time, and I was 34 years old. And from there I stayed there 75
5:17
days. And then from there I went to a
5:20
sober living. And that's, that's kind of where
5:23
my recovery kind of took off. I actually started to have hope
5:29
and, and, and know that maybe I could do this.
5:34
You know, before that, I was always the type of person that
5:37
would go to a treatment center. I would, I would get into
5:39
trouble, my family would either give me a choice.
5:43
It was like court ordered treatment centers or, or go to
5:46
jail essentially. And so I obviously I picked the
5:50
nice treatment centers and but after I would leave the
5:54
treatment center, I would just, I wouldn't have a solution.
5:57
And I, and I just, I didn't hear about the 12 steps too much and
6:01
meetings and that kind of stuff. So, so I just would go back to,
6:05
to my old life, what I knew best, I, I hung around some
6:10
pretty dangerous people. I got myself into some pretty
6:14
dangerous situations at in a young age, throughout my 20s.
6:19
It was, you know, really hard drugs and it was terrible. 28 I
6:25
got pregnant and I had my daughter and I mean, I was
6:29
sober, but it wasn't recovery. It was more dry.
6:33
And, and then when she was about 3, I went back to, to that life
6:38
and, and you know, it was a long road to get here.
6:42
And so when I went to that treatment center and then I went
6:44
to a sober living, it was a private sober living and I
6:49
stayed there for almost a year, a little bit over a year, I
6:52
think. And in that time I really
6:55
learned what recovery was. I, I got a sponsor, I worked 12
7:00
steps. I went to lots of meetings,
7:02
start sponsoring women. And when it was time for me to
7:06
move out on my own, I started to work at the, at the sober house.
7:10
I, it just started off on the weekends and then I moved to, to
7:14
doing throughout the week. And then I started to manage the
7:17
house. So at about 2 1/2 years, I, I,
7:23
I, you know, they, they talk about unmanageability, right
7:27
when, when you're not, when you're not using and you know,
7:31
it comes back into your life if you're, if you're not working a
7:34
solid program. And, and that's kind of what
7:36
happened to me. So I stopped going to meetings.
7:39
I stopped working with women. I was working way too many
7:43
hours. I was helping my mother because
7:47
she, she fell and she fractured her leg.
7:49
And like, these are all excuses really.
7:53
And eventually I, I ended up picking up again at about just
7:56
shy of three years and it was really bad.
7:59
It was about 2 1/2 three months, but it was, it was terrible.
8:02
I almost died a couple of times. Somebody saved my life.
8:07
I was, I was passed out in a bathtub and, and somebody saved
8:12
my life. And so I went to a back to a
8:15
treatment, the same treatment center.
8:17
My sister picked me up from a pretty dangerous area with a
8:21
friend of mine that's in in the program and I went back to
8:26
treatment and I stayed there for 45 days.
8:28
And I don't know, something shifted and I, I knew the things
8:35
that I needed to do and I knew the things that I needed to not
8:37
do. And so, you know, the, the last
8:41
6 1/2, pretty much 6 1/2 years, I've just been, you know, really
8:46
focusing on my career, my recovery, my daughter, my
8:51
relationships, my family. I have a really big family.
8:55
I have three sisters. I have 7 nieces and nephews.
9:00
You know, Sunday lunches at my at my family's house is, is loud
9:03
and lots of kids running around And sometimes I have to pinch
9:08
myself because the life that I was living on the streets like I
9:12
was, I was actually driving on the way down here and it was
9:16
like by all the different areas that I used to like you could
9:21
say I lived, but really it was just, you know, kind of using
9:25
and being on the streets. And so, you know, then I, I went
9:31
from, from the sober living working there and then he called
9:36
me back after I got sober again and he asked me if I wanted my
9:39
job back. And so I started working there
9:41
for about 6 months and I just wanted to something a little bit
9:44
more. So during COVID, I went back to
9:47
school and I graduated with honors, which was pretty
9:51
incredible for a person like me. And, and I started doing my
9:56
placement at Addiction Rehab Toronto.
9:58
And I would say that that's just kind of where I, I kind of fell
10:03
into the field because of my, my lived experience.
10:06
I think that it's, it's such a special place to work.
10:12
I absolutely love everybody that I work with.
10:15
My bosses are, are very supportive.
10:19
You know, I've met you through through art and you know, I get
10:24
to wake up every day and I get to go to a job that I absolutely
10:27
love. Sometimes it's a it can be a
10:29
little bit overwhelming, a little bit stressful, but I
10:31
think that today I'm able to, to handle that stress much better
10:37
because of my recovery. So now I do intake.
10:42
So I went from, from working as a counsellor, I, I also do
10:46
counselling as well. But my primary role is intake
10:50
counselor. And I absolutely love that role
10:52
because I get to see them come into the doors and then I get to
10:55
see them when they're leaving. Yeah.
10:57
That's what I was going to ask you is like, you get to see
11:00
this, you know, these shells of human beings come in and I
11:03
remember every time I've I still, I have a picture from one
11:05
of my intakes that I, I will never delete because it just, I
11:10
just, it brings me back to that feeling of like utter defeat.
11:14
And you know, my hair is all over the place and it looked
11:16
like I hadn't showered in a long time, but I'll, I'll never
11:19
forget that, that walking back like I've been to three and
11:23
walking into every all three treatment centers, like that's
11:25
a, a memory burned into my brain.
11:27
And, and you know, for like when I'm at a wedding last night, I,
11:30
I really pull up those memories right?
11:32
Of like, where does it lead me? Right back into that door where
11:36
I can't even speak. I don't even know who I am
11:38
anymore. I'm just not myself, right?
11:40
Completely. Yeah.
11:42
So that's an interesting perspective that you have there.
11:45
I wanna go back to the so at 2 1/2 years when you went back out
11:49
because I can relate to that. I went back out after having
11:51
years as well. Do you remember what sort of was
11:54
going through your mind when that?
11:56
Because in my experience, relapse doesn't, it doesn't just
11:58
happen overnight, right? There's like a lot of planning,
12:00
a lot of thoughts, a lot of guilt and shame about the
12:02
thoughts. Do you remember like what?
12:04
What that what that thought process was like before you
12:06
picked up? You know, I, I don't have the
12:08
greatest memory and, but I do remember the, the moments
12:13
leading up to it. So I had a sponsor and she would
12:16
tell me, you know, you're not, you're not doing the
12:19
inventories. It's like, you know, like
12:22
checking in at the end of the night.
12:25
You're not coming to meetings. I started, I started a meeting
12:28
in my area. I wasn't going to the meetings.
12:31
I started to concentrate on my relationship at the time and,
12:36
and all these things. And I was really drained and I
12:39
was working too much and all this unmanageability without
12:43
drugs and alcohol. And I remember, you know, I had
12:48
a prayer meditation room in my condo.
12:50
I stopped praying, stopped meditating, I stopped talking
12:54
about it. And what's interesting is I'm
12:57
not much of a drink. Like I, I drink alcoholically,
12:59
but drinking is not really my thing.
13:03
But I had a reservation about drinking and I didn't tell
13:06
anybody about it. I found myself, I was telling my
13:11
friend this story the other day. I found myself driving in the
13:14
area that I used to use and just driving around and there was no
13:20
reason for me to be in that area.
13:22
So looking back, it was like, did I want to see somebody that
13:25
was using and then maybe join them or in my mind I was like,
13:29
Oh no, I want people to see that I'm doing really well, but I
13:33
really wasn't doing well. Maybe on the outside right
13:36
manager to sober house, you know, sponsoring all these women
13:41
doing the 12 steps, going to meetings.
13:43
But I really wasn't doing the work internally and I wasn't
13:47
telling on myself. And I remember the, the we had
13:53
a, a gratitude meeting at my, at my group.
13:56
It was just after Christmas and I went to the meeting and then
14:00
the person that I was dating at the time called me and told me
14:03
he had relapsed. And my best thinking said I'm
14:07
going to go and save him. And I was in no place to do
14:11
that. I should have asked maybe some
14:13
of my guy friends to to go and help him.
14:15
But and I started driving and you know, it talks about like
14:20
the mental obsession, but there's also like a mental blank
14:23
spot. I knew in that moment that I was
14:25
going to, I was going to pick up that night and I thought I was
14:30
just going to do 1, which is funny when you say it out loud,
14:33
but I really did think that and and then I was off to the races
14:37
from from that moment on. Yeah, that's interesting.
14:42
It's it's almost like your brain starts to look for excuses to to
14:45
jump back into that life. And yeah, you're, you're like
14:49
constantly scanning the area. And that's interesting that you
14:52
drove around and then, yeah, I can relate to like the, for me,
14:56
it was the ADHD medication. It was like I, I had the the
15:00
right thought in my in my mind. And you mentioned telling on
15:03
yourself that is like, I try to preach that so often with guys
15:06
that I work with and on this podcast as well, every time I
15:10
relapse, it was that, yeah, it was that it was like, I have
15:13
this idea I'm gonna hold it back here and it's just gonna keep
15:16
getting bigger and bigger until eventually it leads to, to
15:19
action, right. So being an intake counsellor at
15:24
at Addiction Rehab Toronto, you see a lot of people come in.
15:28
What, what would you say is like the number one people in your
15:32
opinion that like don't I don't, I, I never like saying fail
15:37
because it's not a failure at all, but that don't kind of get
15:40
the recovery thing. Like what?
15:41
What do you think the biggest reason is when they leave
15:43
treatment? A, a lot of the time it's the
15:45
continuum of care. You can come into treatment and
15:49
you can be there 306090 days, which is great and it's a
15:53
beginning. But if you leave treatment and
15:56
you just go back to exactly what you were doing before, you're
16:00
not going to be able to sustain recovery.
16:02
And so I often say, you know, if, if it's, if it's not 12
16:06
steps, then maybe look into SMART Recovery or something.
16:10
Something needs to change, you know, some people need need a
16:14
little bit of extra support and then sober living is is the next
16:18
option. I didn't go back to sober living
16:20
and on my after my relapse, but I do truly believe that if I
16:24
didn't go to that sober living initially in 2016, I don't think
16:28
that I would be sober today. I really needed to learn how to
16:31
live outside of treatment, and having that extra support was
16:37
was crucial. Yeah, was absolutely crucial.
16:40
Yeah, and, and it's a good point too, because, you know, for a
16:44
long time when I, when I came back from my relapse, there was
16:47
these thoughts of like, oh, I, I lost it all right.
16:49
But that, that's a prime example of tools that were built into
16:53
your brain that you were able to later go back, pick up on right,
16:57
and and bring back out and use again.
17:00
So you, you don't, you don't lose any of that time.
17:02
You don't lose those tools that you're taught in recovery.
17:07
And so, yeah, I did the sober living thing too.
17:10
I found that for me, the biggest help at any treatment center
17:13
I've ever been to was like, just just listening to what they told
17:16
me to do, right. And when I work with people now
17:19
that are getting into, into treatment, I always, you know,
17:22
it's the mom's calling and it's the fifth again, same thing,
17:25
fifth treatment center, right? What's going to be different
17:28
this time? And I ask them sometimes I'm
17:29
like, what do you think the missing piece is, right?
17:32
Like, did you listen to every single thing the counselor said
17:34
to do? Right.
17:36
And it's funny that I'm saying this out loud because what, in
17:40
my last treatment center, they recommended that I extend to 60
17:43
days. And, you know, I had eight years
17:44
of recovery and I was, I was like, I know what I'm doing, you
17:47
know what I mean? And it's like that utter
17:50
deflation of ego had to take place again.
17:53
And it wasn't until I said it out loud that I'm a defiant
17:57
alcoholic, an addict, that something clicked for me where I
18:00
was like, I was able to accept the fact, even though even
18:03
still, looking back, my brain will go, yeah, you know, you
18:05
probably could have got away with 30, right?
18:07
And it's like, no, dude, like you needed to listen and it
18:10
doesn't matter what it looked like it you needed to listen to
18:12
what other people were saying, right?
18:14
And then just apply it in your life.
18:16
Yeah, like taking direction and remaining teachable and being
18:20
humble. I've worked with clients before
18:23
where they're like, I know, I know, I know.
18:25
I'm like, no you don't. That's a dangerous word.
18:28
Because I used to say it myself and I know, I know that I, I
18:31
need to be able to, to listen to somebody that came before me
18:35
that knows what they're doing and I need to follow direction
18:38
because my, my thinking and my way of life was not working.
18:43
Yeah, it's so true. You're, you're a spiritual
18:47
person, right? I I know that from you.
18:49
What does faith spirituality mean to you and why do you think
18:53
it's important in recovery? So you know in the big book it
18:59
says self will run riot. So if I'm living on myself, will
19:04
I'll get myself into trouble every time.
19:07
And so when I started the program, I was a bit skeptical
19:11
with, with spirituality, with the word God and, and those kind
19:14
of things. And, you know, throughout the
19:16
years of recovery, sometimes I'm, I'm very spiritual and then
19:20
sometimes I, I, I fall off the beam a little bit and I have to
19:23
get myself back to it. I think that, you know, me
19:27
driving the bus is not a good idea.
19:29
I'm not a good driver in a sense.
19:32
And so spirituality looks like, you know, turning my thoughts
19:37
and my actions over to the care of God or whatever I believe in
19:41
instead of my thoughts and actions.
19:43
So it's not always just to do with drugs and alcohol.
19:47
It's to do with should I go to this place or should I hang out
19:51
with these people? Or, you know, do I go to this
19:54
event? Like I, I kind of like have
19:57
something to talk to and and be directed by because, you know,
20:03
for such a long time, my plans and ideas, they get me into
20:08
trouble and, and get me into places where where I don't want
20:13
to be. And you know, my life today is,
20:16
is so beautiful. It's, it's a miracle because I
20:21
couldn't go, I couldn't go like, you know, 20 minutes without
20:24
picking up. It was really bad.
20:27
I, when I went into treatment in 2016, I was, I was a little over
20:32
£100 and I was, I was dying, you know, from the inside and out.
20:38
I needed spirituality. I needed something to help guide
20:42
me. And you know, even just doing
20:47
prayer meditation, I feel like when, when I pray, I'm I'm
20:51
asking for direction and when I meditate, I'm listening for the
20:54
answers. What does meditation look like
20:57
to you? How do you, how do you tell
20:58
someone to meditate? I always struggled with with
21:01
that one, Yeah. So my mind sometimes goes like
21:07
1,000,000 miles a minute. So I like guided meditations.
21:11
Personally, I'm not very, very good with sitting still with,
21:16
with just quiet or maybe even a little bit of music in the
21:20
background. I like something that's guiding
21:22
me. Sometimes I'll just do use the
21:24
calm app and, and just ask for guided meditation on stress or
21:29
guided meditation on faith or guided meditation on anxiety,
21:35
whatever they, whatever I'm feeling in that moment.
21:37
And I just try and sit still in the morning before I get to work
21:41
because I, I like to be grounded and, and kind of just feeling
21:46
calm when I get to work. And then also at night time
21:49
after I do, I write out my inventory.
21:51
I send it to my, my sponsor. She's fantastic.
21:55
I really love working with her. And and then I just finished it
21:58
off with the meditation and I usually fall asleep.
22:01
So you do that night then. Interesting.
22:03
Yeah, yeah, I find that meditation is one of those
22:06
things where it's like you can't there's no doing it right,
22:08
right. It's just doing it or not doing
22:10
it and you know, that's that's the struggle for me is is just
22:14
doing it right. It's starting to do it building
22:16
a routine around it. And then yeah, to your point,
22:19
when I do it, I'm I'm much more calm I'm much I don't react to
22:23
situations I don't buy things on Amazon as much right.
22:26
Like I can kind of catch myself and have this self-awareness
22:30
when, for example, last night, these feelings are coming up of
22:34
and you know, we're, we're reminiscing about old times and
22:38
you start getting some people, as I'm sure you've had, where
22:40
you see old friends and they're, they're telling you how good
22:42
you're doing and this stuff. And I don't know about you, but
22:44
I, I really hate compliments. Like I really struggle.
22:47
And, and I know that that's something to work on where it's
22:50
like, you know, this person is, they mean it.
22:52
And because that's my thing is like, Oh, you're lying, right?
22:55
Or because I don't believe in myself, right?
22:58
And so that it takes work and but I'm able to, to stop in
23:02
those moments and feel my body reacting to whatever the
23:06
situation is happening. And then, you know, just relate
23:09
it back to again. And I, I don't drink like that.
23:11
I don't, I don't use like that I'm going to be OK.
23:14
And just. And then, you know, you wake up
23:16
this morning and you're every time, every single time you wake
23:19
up and you're like, man, you almost can't believe that you
23:22
had those thoughts again, 'cause what?
23:23
Like, what was I thinking, right?
23:24
And then, but you just laugh at it too.
23:26
You don't beat yourself up about it.
23:27
And you're like, I'm an addict. And that's, that's it.
23:29
You know, it's just more proof that I I don't need but I I get
23:33
anyways, right? And, you know, working at
23:36
Addiction Rehab Toronto, seeing people come in broken,
23:40
essentially, it reminds me of of when I walked into treatment
23:45
multiple times and just, you know, in the big book where it
23:49
says incomprehensible demoralization.
23:51
Like that's how I felt every single time.
23:55
And you know, the snowball of lies when when I was relapsing
23:58
and, you know, lying to my boss and telling him I had laryngitis
24:02
when, when I was using and, and that kind of stuff that that
24:05
doesn't serve me today. I don't need to.
24:07
I don't need to live that life today.
24:10
What are you seeing on the intake side in terms of
24:12
substances coming out? Are you seeing a lot of gambling
24:14
yet? I, I keep thinking about this
24:17
because I'm getting, I'm getting some phone calls about gambling,
24:20
you know, now that it's legal in Ontario and it's, it's a really
24:23
dangerous one, right? Because a lot of people it, it
24:26
doesn't, you know, I had a, a friend in last year, actually
24:30
right before my last relapse. I didn't realize how much of an
24:32
impact this had. He actually took his own life.
24:34
And you know, we don't, we don't know exactly why, but some
24:39
people believe that there was a little bit of that going on.
24:42
And, you know, if you read about the stats, I think one of the
24:46
number one reasons, and I'm gonna mess this up, but one of
24:48
the number one reasons young males are committing suicide or
24:51
taking their own lives is because of gambling debt.
24:53
And it's it's a serious problem that's, that's gonna come,
24:56
right. It's like an epidemic that's on
24:57
the rise definitely in the States as well.
25:00
So what are you seeing in terms of substances?
25:02
Is it a lot of opiates? Is it like what's, what's the
25:04
majority of people coming in with?
25:06
I would say primarily it's a lot of Alcoholics, a lot of crack
25:11
cocaine and opiates, but there are some gambling, gambling
25:15
addicts. And yeah, it's, I, I have
25:18
personal experience with, I was married to somebody that was a
25:22
gambling addict and he, you know, it's, it's, it's really
25:27
bad. It, it creates, you know, the
25:29
depression, the anxiety. And it, it is, if you look at
25:33
stats, it's, it's a high suicide rate just because it's, it's
25:38
pretty much the same as substances except for gambling.
25:41
You can't stop. And it's, it's really sad.
25:45
It's really sad. And it's hard to detect because,
25:49
you know, it's not necessarily something that's visual when,
25:52
when you're using, you can kind of tell when somebody's on
25:55
drugs, but not so with the gambling addict.
25:58
So it's, it's, it's pretty sad. It's and when we've seen it,
26:02
we've seen it at at art people coming in with gambling
26:05
addictions. And is it the same kind of
26:07
treatment approach that we take to that?
26:08
Like I'm I'm not really up to date on how how do.
26:11
You yeah, yeah. So there, there are 12 step
26:15
meetings that you can go to GA and yeah, they, they, they work
26:20
the 12 steps, maybe not in treatment, but yeah, they've,
26:24
they've worked the 12 step steps in, in different fellowships.
26:27
And it's the same sort of idea, except for, you know, when we
26:32
have the the mental obsession with drugs and alcohol, they
26:36
have the mental obsession to to place a bet.
26:39
And it's very similar to in, because I have some personal
26:43
experience with gambling in my addiction as well, where it's
26:46
like you're chasing that first win, right?
26:48
And it's the same as, you know, I'm chasing that first high,
26:51
that first line that, that the, the dopamine brought me.
26:54
And it's never the same, right? And then you're constantly
26:56
chasing it and you get in a bigger hole and then you need to
26:58
use more and gamble more or whatever.
27:00
So it's, there's a lot of similarities.
27:01
I think what what is the best piece of advice or some of the
27:08
best advice you got when you were coming into recovery or
27:12
this time around from people? So I, it was, it was interesting
27:17
when I went back to treatment, some people, cause a lot of the
27:22
counsellors knew me because I was there three years prior and,
27:27
and some of the clients were asking me, you know, about
27:30
having three years and that kind of stuff.
27:32
And I, and I just told him I don't, I, I'm just starting
27:35
fresh, just like you, because obviously I got something wrong
27:39
along the way. I don't lose the, the experience
27:43
of having those three years and the people that I met.
27:45
But but I, I wanted to remain humble and, and teachable in, in
27:49
that moment, you know, just just being back in recovery.
27:56
I think that the importance of really staying in the moment and
28:01
working on, you know, having, having that inventory at night
28:06
has been crucial for me. I think because if I don't, if I
28:11
just kind of leave things, resentments, resentments and
28:14
they build up and they build up, eventually, you know, I'm going
28:19
to end up picking up as a result of it.
28:20
So I need to always stay current with with some things that have
28:25
been bothering me and, and just looking at, you know, how I
28:29
treat people and my behaviors and that kind of stuff.
28:32
Because if I start being short with people, start going back to
28:36
selfishness, resentments and that kind of stuff, I know that
28:40
that's a telltale sign that I'm going down the wrong path again.
28:42
Yeah, yeah. It's interesting you bring that
28:44
up 'cause that's, that's one of mine too, where I start getting
28:47
short with people. And it's this, it's kind of like
28:50
this grumpiness. You know, I actually woke up
28:51
this morning feeling that. And something that's been
28:56
helping me a lot. I started doing these free
28:59
writing journals every morning because I read about it
29:01
somewhere. So now, you know, no matter what
29:04
and I don't want to do it a lot of the time.
29:06
But first thing I do when I wake up after I pray is I write 3
29:09
pages of just like whatever's on my mind.
29:11
And that's been extremely helpful.
29:12
It, I actually got it from a woman who is sober.
29:16
She wrote a book about the creative process and like
29:19
writing and she's a writer and she uses her recovery tools to
29:23
like help artists that are, you know, have what writer's block
29:26
or whatever. And so I'm reading this book and
29:28
she talks about morning pages. It's called where every morning
29:31
you write out three pages no matter what.
29:33
And I'm finding that it really helps me.
29:34
Like I don't want to do it a lot of time, but it's, it's a form
29:36
of prayer. It's a form of meditation after
29:38
I've already said my my typical prayers and it's amazing.
29:43
Like it, it honestly went away like within probably half an
29:46
hour of when I woke up this morning, I was writing about it
29:49
out. And then, you know, my wife
29:50
actually, she woke before me this morning, which never
29:52
happens, but I, I told her and she, I was like, I, I feel
29:58
grumpy, I feel short, I feel angry.
30:01
And within half an hour, like, you know, we're having a
30:04
conversation again and it's kind of gone, right.
30:06
So I, I, I can't stress enough to people how important it is to
30:10
just get it out or whatever that looks like.
30:12
Even even I think what's beneficial too is having a
30:16
gratitude journal. I feel like if I'm looking at
30:20
what I'm grateful for today, then it's really hard for me to
30:24
be in a bad mood because there's so many things in my life to to
30:28
be grateful for. I have my family back.
30:31
I have a beautiful relationship with my daughter.
30:34
I have AI have a beautiful relationship with my partner and
30:39
his daughter and my family, you know, they trust me again.
30:45
It's pretty sad, but you know, they stopped.
30:46
They stopped setting a place the table for me because I just
30:49
never showed up. I miss so out on so many things
30:53
in active addiction. And now it's just like normal
30:56
for me to be sober. Like they, they don't remember,
30:58
like I'm sure they remember, but, but it's been a while since
31:02
they've seen me that way that it's just kind of second nature
31:06
for, for me to show up and, you know, take care of their kids
31:10
and, and that kind of stuff, right.
31:11
It's amazing. You replace, sort of, you start
31:14
to replace all the bad memories with with better ones, right?
31:17
And it takes time and I've, I've come to realize too, luckily
31:20
I've had everyone in my life come back as well.
31:25
It does take time and some people don't, they're not coming
31:27
back, right? Some people you've, you've,
31:29
we've really done some damage and need to accept that everyone
31:32
has their own healing journey and maybe their life is better
31:34
without me, right? That's like another way to look
31:37
at it too. Well, it's something that you
31:40
you're currently working on right now personally.
31:43
Personally, that's, that's a good question.
31:47
So I've, I've been, you know, trying to focus more on, you
31:53
know, spending more time with my daughter.
31:55
I think that it's, it's very important.
31:57
She's, she's 16 and I, and she really needs me.
32:00
And also I'm, I'm quite busy at work too, right?
32:04
So it's like I'm, I'm a bit of a homebody.
32:06
So I, you know, during the week I just, I go to meetings, I go
32:09
home, I just hang out of my house.
32:13
I do, I do some therapy sessions at night time, spend time with
32:16
her and, and just try and keep it simple.
32:19
I also love to travel and some people ask me, you know, how do
32:25
you travel and how do you go to these all inclusive resorts and
32:29
not drink or, or do anything else?
32:31
But my memories are pretty much all attached to recovery.
32:37
I, I only travelled since I've been in recovery.
32:40
I think I've gone on 2 trips where I was in active use, one
32:43
when I was 1918 or 19 and once with a family trip and I was
32:49
drinking. Other than that, I've, I've
32:52
travelled to so many different places, but I've been in
32:54
recovery doing that. So I just absolutely love it.
32:58
I, I just, I just got back from a Mediterranean cruise that was
33:02
absolutely beautiful. I just, I don't know, it's just
33:06
kind of my happy place to be around like an ocean and seeing
33:10
the world and, and different things because, you know, being
33:14
confined to, to a room and being in paranoia is, is not fun.
33:21
So yeah. It gets old pretty quick.
33:22
Yeah, yeah, yeah. You just reminded me of, I
33:26
remember because there's a lot of firsts in recovery, right?
33:28
And when people ask me that too, or, or they ask you, I don't
33:32
think they really understand that.
33:33
It's like you've done it a lot where it's like it, it at one
33:37
point it wasn't easy, right? Like it's, it's gotten easier
33:40
because you do it a lot more. And so first wedding, first all
33:44
inclusive. That was a big one for me.
33:45
And you reminded me of a time when I went to Jamaica for two
33:49
weeks, which was way too much time on a resort, to be honest,
33:51
'cause we were like stuck in the first world problems.
33:54
Anyways, So we were there and I remember being on the beach and
33:59
there was like 4 or five people that were younger than me and
34:02
they were like funneling on the beach.
34:05
And they, I'll never forget this.
34:07
They brought it right up to my face.
34:09
And we're like, you know, you got to do 1, you got to do 1.
34:11
And that was one of the hardest moments I've I've ever been
34:14
through in recovery, right where it's like you're in a place no
34:17
one would know, right? You, you can, all these thoughts
34:20
are going through your mind. You can get back to recovery
34:22
when you get home or but and so I remember vividly calling my
34:28
sponsor while I was on that vacation after and telling him
34:31
about it. And you know, I think that saved
34:33
my life because in the moment you kind of forget, right?
34:39
You forget that you have to go and pick up the pieces after and
34:42
you have to live with your addict self again, right?
34:45
No one else is coming to save you after.
34:48
Yeah, I was just, I was thinking when you were talking that I
34:51
remember I got out of treatment. I was about four months sober.
34:56
I went to Bahamas with my family and my daughter and then the
34:59
fall that year, I was about 8 months sober and my, my sponsor,
35:04
the time to fish, we went to Mexico together.
35:07
And, and, and so I, I just kind of got used to being in recovery
35:13
and going on these trips and then, you know, traveling with
35:16
my sister, traveling with my daughter, traveling with
35:20
friends. And then last year we went on a
35:23
recovery trip to Mexico. So, and we're going again, yeah,
35:27
we're going again in March. So I, I feel like, you know,
35:31
it's, it's a good mixture of family and then also recovery
35:34
trips as well. Yeah, it's beautiful.
35:39
How so when life happens and you know things happen in recovery
35:45
to you, and how would you say that you navigate through those
35:48
tough times when you know everything seems to be going
35:50
wrong or or not in your favor? How do you navigate through
35:53
that? So, so I think that having
35:57
people, the supportive people and, and really talking about it
36:01
is, is so important. I have some really fantastic
36:06
friends in, in recovery, ranging from, you know, 2526 years to,
36:12
you know, a couple years and, and they, they know me well.
36:17
I have some friends that I've known that I lived with.
36:20
And so we're living that are still sober and, and we're on
36:23
this journey together. So they know me the best.
36:25
And I also have a couple of normie friends that I can talk
36:29
to about things, but I find that reaching out and just just
36:33
telling them how I'm feeling. Also staying connected to my
36:37
sponsor and, and my spirituality.
36:41
I think that that's kind of what helps me when I'm when I'm
36:45
feeling those those certain low tides.
36:49
Yeah, I mean for me right now, you know, things are good.
36:52
It's everything is, is working out as it should.
36:56
I I have a problem with expectations.
36:58
That's that's my thing right now where it's like, you know, this
37:01
this podcast used to be a lot more, I don't know, I would say
37:07
easy to get my head around doing right, all the work around it.
37:11
And lately I've been kind of just thinking like it's starting
37:15
to feel more like a job, right? And I've come to the realization
37:18
that it's solely because, and this is like a lot of things in
37:20
my life, I have an expectation attached to it.
37:22
It's like I'm at a point now where I'm not the the
37:26
expectation. I'm not getting what I thought I
37:29
wanted to get out of it, right? Whether it's the amount of
37:32
listeners or, you know, money from it or whatever.
37:35
And it all comes back to like, yeah, I have this expectation,
37:40
which is directly proportionate to my level of acceptance.
37:45
So my, what is it saying? My serenity is directly
37:50
proportional, inversely proportional to my level of
37:53
expectations, right? So the higher my expectations
37:55
are, the lower my serenity is in, in all scenarios.
37:58
And I have to remind myself, I was like, dude, you did this to
38:01
just stay sober and hopefully help one other person.
38:04
And you're achieving that, right?
38:05
So shut up. Yeah, it's, it's, it's a
38:10
beautiful thing that you're doing.
38:11
I think that it, it, it can help somebody that's that's watching
38:15
it and and maybe they can relate to to somebody that's on here.
38:19
And we can't do this alone. That's the main thing.
38:23
And I remember after I had my relapse, so many people reached
38:30
out to me, so many people showed up at my, at my door, friends in
38:34
recovery that that didn't give up on me, didn't turn their back
38:38
on me. You know, when I was using they,
38:42
they wouldn't necessarily give me money, but they would buy
38:44
food for me and stuff like that. And, and I don't forget that.
38:48
And you know, that's very important because we can't, we
38:51
can't do this alone. Yeah, yeah, The asking for money
38:54
is. That's a good one.
38:56
You know, enabling, right? Yeah.
38:58
If you could go back. I like asking this.
39:01
Somebody asked me this question once, and I hated it at first,
39:04
but now I really like it. It's if you could go back and
39:08
change your life to take like a life of a normal drinker instead
39:11
of an addict or a normal user instead of an addict, would you
39:14
take it? So that that's, you know, I used
39:18
to think that I would, I used to think that if there was no
39:21
consequences, would I still continue that lifestyle?
39:25
And today I would say no, I would, I would rather be, you
39:30
know, have the lived experience. I wouldn't have the career I
39:33
have. I wouldn't have the people in my
39:35
life. I don't think that I would have
39:38
the partner that I have in my life.
39:40
I don't think I would have any of these things because, you
39:44
know, I've met so many incredible people in recovery
39:47
that we wouldn't have crossed their paths with each other,
39:50
right? So I, I love my life today and
39:52
I, and I'm grateful for, for what I've been through because,
39:56
you know, when I'm, even when I'm doing intakes and somebody
39:59
asks me like, do you understand addiction?
40:01
And, and I tell them a little bit, right?
40:03
So, so it makes them feel more comfortable and, and they're
40:06
like, oh, wow. And I, and I tell them like a
40:08
lot of our counselors have lived experience.
40:11
They they can understand what you what you've gone through,
40:14
and they can empathize with you. And I've also, I'm also a a
40:19
mother, so I can understand the parents side of things where you
40:23
know, what I put my family through and I see that the
40:26
parents faces and just, you know, they just feel they, they
40:31
look lost and and broken because of what we put them through,
40:34
right. Yeah, I know.
40:38
It's, it's like I, I don't think I would have had the reason.
40:43
I don't want to say access to the toolkit that I have today
40:45
because it's available to anybody, but I wouldn't have had
40:48
the reason to get the toolkit that I have.
40:51
And yeah, things have happened in my life where I don't know if
40:54
they would have happened if I hadn't hit some sort of rock
40:59
bottom right. And there's a lot of growth that
41:01
comes after destruction, right? It breeds a lot of creation.
41:06
I'm stealing that from a Red Hot Chili's pepper song.
41:08
I think, you know, destruction leads to a very rough Rd. but it
41:13
also breeds creation, right? And I love that quote.
41:17
And it's the lead singer is also in recovery as well.
41:20
So it's a beautiful thing. You have to be able to learn
41:25
from from the experiences as well.
41:27
I think in the big book it says it might be worth a bad case of
41:30
jitters if you get a full knowledge of your condition.
41:33
So as long as you can learn from from the experiences and you can
41:37
grow from them. I feel like anything that I've
41:39
been through, if it's, it's been really challenging, that's where
41:42
I've grown the most in recovery. You know, I, I got married in
41:48
recovery, I got divorced in recovery.
41:51
I went through a pretty dark time through that relationship
41:54
and, and I came out of it a stronger person as a result of
41:57
it. And, you know, you know, looking
42:00
back at my, at my life in active use, there's some, there's some
42:05
things that, that I went through and I feel like I, I kind of put
42:09
myself in those dangerous situations, right?
42:11
So I think that I can I can better be prepared to help.
42:16
Someone it's like the sort of unique gift, right, that we can
42:20
offer to others. And as I'm sure you can attest,
42:23
addiction is not going anywhere, right?
42:25
It's getting worse. And yeah, I, I found it.
42:28
I find it interesting too, that there's with all the drugs that
42:32
are out now and you know, a lot of a lot of you see that the
42:37
data that a lot less people are drinking now, right?
42:39
That is, I, I still talk to a lot of Alcoholics too, where
42:42
it's like the drugs are not their problem at all.
42:44
And I find that really interesting, right, that it's
42:46
like, let me ask you this and maybe I don't know if there's
42:50
any science behind this or anything.
42:52
And maybe you your opinion on what do you think makes somebody
42:57
a stimulant user versus an alcohol or depressant user?
43:00
Like what do you think the difference is?
43:01
I've always been a stimulant guy.
43:02
I never liked being depressed. What do you think the difference
43:05
is between the two? That's, that's a, that's a good
43:08
question for me. I was, I was both, right?
43:11
I, I, I use stimulants and then I use Downers as well, right.
43:16
So, but I think that once you get comfortable with, with a
43:21
certain substance and you like the effect produced by it, then
43:24
it just becomes your, your failed solution, but you think
43:28
it's your solution at the time. So a lot of drinkers I talked
43:32
to, to a lot of Alcoholics and they, they are under the
43:35
impression that because it's legal, it's more acceptable and
43:39
it's not so bad. Sometimes I'll even say, is
43:42
there any other substances when I'm doing an intake or, or if I
43:46
say drugs and they're like, oh, no, no, I don't do drugs, but
43:50
alcohol is a drug. So, so it's, it's interesting to
43:54
see that they they kind of separate the two and I think
43:58
that it just becomes preference and, and what you're used to
44:01
and. And that's, I would assume that
44:03
that's the same with weed now too, right?
44:04
Where it's like, that's interesting.
44:06
Yeah. It's like this sort of
44:08
justification that you're not, you're OK, right.
44:11
You're, you know, everyone else is doing it.
44:14
I I don't think I was ever to make that justification because
44:17
people are not socially using cocaine.
44:19
Actually, maybe they are. But if you.
44:22
Yeah. If you, if you walk around and
44:24
you know, I, I would say most people aren't using socially
44:29
accepted use of cocaine or any drugs like that.
44:32
But yeah, that's an interesting distinction.
44:34
I never thought about that. OK, let's let's wrap it up with
44:38
this. If you could say something to
44:41
your younger, addicted self today, what would you say?
44:46
Very good question. I think that I would, I would
44:52
ask my younger self to listen and try and follow a little more
44:58
direction in life. And, you know, sometimes I look
45:01
back, I try not to have regrets, but I, I look back and I say,
45:05
you know, I wish maybe I was a little bit younger getting into
45:08
recovery. There's some things that, you
45:11
know, maybe because I'm a little bit older, I, I can't
45:13
necessarily have or accomplish. Maybe I would have had more kids
45:18
or, and stuff like that, right. So I think that, you know, maybe
45:22
maybe, you know, I would, I would say to my younger self,
45:25
you know, try and try and get get your stuff together at a
45:29
little bit of a younger age. That going against that
45:33
defiance, right? That's I, I think that's the
45:35
crux of it all, really. For and, and like even today,
45:38
it's just to stay sober. It's going against that, you
45:41
know, better judgement in quotations that I, I think I
45:45
know what's best for me. And you said it perfectly.
45:49
The the best answer, like my worst, my biggest problem today
45:52
is I'm right, right. But it, it looks, it comes out
45:55
in the form of yeah, I know. And that's such a good way to
45:58
put it. It's like anytime I'm saying,
45:59
yeah, I know that's the red flag, huge red flag.
46:04
Thanks so much for coming down, Allison.
46:06
I appreciate it. Thank you for having me.
46:10
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46:16
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46:19
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46:21
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46:25
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46:28
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46:31
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46:35
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