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Jack Monson, Chief Growth Officer at Thunderly | Your Next Franchisee Is Asking ChatGPT · Reframe First

• Oleksij Rak: Hey guys, welcome to another episode of Reframe First. I'm Alexey and let me welcome our today's guest, Jack Monson from Sunderly and also from Social Geek. So hi Jack, it's great having you here. Jack Monson: Hey Alexei, thanks for having me. Great to join you. Oleksij Rak: Yeah, thanks a lot for joining. It's great to have a fellow podcaster here in the studio. So let's give it a try. So PromoterLens Sunderly is a franchise marketing agency and Social Geek is a podcast about franchising included. Could Jack Monson: That's exactly right. Yeah. Yeah. So Oleksij Rak: you tell us more about what you do and since you're part of the franchise? Jack Monson: Sure. Sure. I've been doing this for approaching 20 years now in the franchise space, doing digital marketing and a lot of franchise development work. Thunderly has been around for even longer. we're celebrating 27 years this fall. it's a franchise marketing agency that really focuses on finding candidates for brands. So it's all franchise development. And what that means is we do a lot of advertising, we do a lot of content creation, we do public relations, we do websites, videos, podcasts, all of those things. But Oleksij Rak: you Jack Monson: the real the goal is really to find someone who would be a great franchise owner for all of our clients that we work with. And on top of that, I've been doing the social geek podcast now for several years. It's 17 years old now. Oleksij Rak: So. Jack Monson: We started doing podcasts before podcasts were really cool. and but we talk about franchise marketing there too. We talk a lot about marketing, digital geeky stuff, and we talk a lot about franchising. So that's something that really started Oleksij Rak: So. Jack Monson: as is as a sort of a hobby and a passion play and a lot of fun for me. And it really turned into a a very good business. And we work with some of the best brands and suppliers and and other marketing. folks all across the globe with social geeks. So it's still a lot of fun. Oleksij Rak: Yeah, it kind of is. So I'm running it for half a year and it is. I Jack Monson: Mm-hmm. Oleksij Rak: didn't expect it to be that much fun because you do meet a lot of interesting people. Jack Monson: Yeah. There there are so many podcasts out there that, you know, everyone's listening to multiple podcasts and you'll see them come and go. You know, you'll see someone start a podcast and, you know, within two or three months they decide it's a whole lot of work. They didn't realize that there's work behind this. So it goes away. But it's it's something that even even when we get really busy, it just feels like something that I want to keep going. I think it's been Good for the industry, good for franchising, and franchising has certainly been good for us. Oleksij Rak: Yeah, sure. Awesome. You mentioned you help franchisers find good candidates. What does it make to be a good candidate? Who is it? Jack Monson: You know, someone who's going to be successful owning a business. I think there are a lot of people who just want to sell franchises and find someone who can write a check and someone who has enough money to buy the franchise. And they don't really worry about will that person be successful? Will that person still be in business in five years? And and we're not really interested in those types of brands. We want people who need good franchise Oleksij Rak: Thank Jack Monson: owners who will be successful. Who will who will grow their business into multiple locations and and keep growing. My goal is to make sure that those brands are still our clients five years from now, 10 years from now. I I don't really want to work with the brands that are just interested in selling a lot of franchises so then maybe they can sell the brand. that's not very rewarding for me and my team right now. So we really want to find those great franchisees who five years from now can tell a great story about how much their brand means to them and how it really changed their life. Oleksij Rak: It opens to questions like how do you choose the right brands to work with? Jack Monson: Yeah. It you know, there's really two directions to go. One is you could get involved in something that you're passionate about. Maybe it's a certain type of food or a certain type of service that you're an expert in. That's terrific. But what I really like seeing is someone who maybe never thought that they would own a restaurant, or maybe never thought that they would be involved in some B2B type business, but The opportunity was great and and it's a it's a good, profitable business. And they really get into it because there's there's nothing more exciting than a business that's profitable and you can you can grow your business, you can grow your family, you can take care of a lot of people. I think the people who really look at a business as a business, not just as sort of a passion play, those are the people who are going to be successful and who will grow their business. So Oleksij Rak: . Jack Monson: it might not be the most exciting thing on earth. Right. It might be, you know, some type of cleaning company or or or you know some sort of commercial projects company or something like that that you never thought you'd be involved in, but it's a great business. It's it's something that you can run well, it's something you that you can grow. And to me, that's really exciting when I see people take that and run with it. Oleksij Rak: You mentioned different segments of franchising. How do I help? How do you identify? For me, the best fit is cleaning business, not Jack Monson: Yeah. Oleksij Rak: a retail store. There should be some difference in psychological profile or don't know, demographic profile in different psych... Jack Monson: Yeah. I think I think those differences are getting a little less. I think those lines are getting blurrier all the time. When I first got into franchising, it it felt like there were two groups. There were people who were going to get into food and people who weren't going to get into food. And and I think we've seen that, especially with the rise Oleksij Rak: Yeah. Jack Monson: of the multi-unit owners, we've seen a lot of brands, or I should say a lot of franchisees and owners who Maybe they do own a food concept, but they want to get into something different other than food. They want to diversify into cleaning company or or something else that maybe they don't need real estate or as much labor as as they're used to in the food industry. So we're seeing more and more brands, especially in things like health and fitness and wellness, who are bringing on franchisees who are from the food space. Maybe they own. some pizza places or taco places or something like that. But when it when it all comes down to it, they're great business owners. They're not just food business owners, they're great business owners. So we're seeing a lot more diversification, a lot of people adding different types of of different sectors of of Oleksij Rak: you Jack Monson: of brands to their portfolio. And I think a lot of that had to do with the pandemic and a lot of people had to change, you know, what they were planning on doing for the next twenty years and and diversification really played a big role in franchising after twenty twenty, twenty twenty two. And and I think we're gonna continue to see that going forward because I think it's a smart move. Oleksij Rak: So we mean in it is You need to have the mentality of business owner and it doesn't really matter which segment you're in. You just Jack Monson: Right. Oleksij Rak: choose one to your liking. Jack Monson: Yeah, choose choose one to your liking. Choose something that you can that you can that you can, you know, get into and dive into and learn as much as possible. But I think more important than what you're making every day or what you're selling every day is that franchisor. Does that franchise or have a support system? Do they have a great process? I may love a certain style of pizza, but if that franchisor isn't supporting me and they don't have a good process in place, and they're not helping me grow my business, it's probably not a good move. I might want to get into something different. Oleksij Rak: How do you know if they have a great support system and if they have a good processing? It's quite likely not in the FDD, right? Jack Monson: Yeah, it's probably not in in the documents. It's probably not in the FDD here in America. It's probably not in in their their sales materials that they're falling down on some places. The really the best thing to do is talk to franchisees. You know, there there are brands that validate well who you can call up any franchisee and really get the good story and and find out what's going on and find out how that franchisee is doing. and then there are other systems who It's really hard to find a franchisee who's being successful. And and if you have to work at finding a franchisee who's being successful, I think you know the answer that this is probably not a great move. Oleksij Rak: Do I choose the franchises I call myself or does the franchisee provide the list? Because franchisee can provide the list of the best ones. Jack Monson: Yeah, yeah. Of of course they'll they'll want you to to validate with someone who who you know they really like Oleksij Rak: Peace out. Jack Monson: and who's very successful. But I would I would go beyond just what the franchise or is providing. You know, look in the FDD, find all of the franchisees listed and and find those people and have those conversations. again, if if they're hard to find and you can't get a hold of anybody, that's that's really going to tell you a story. But I think I think too. Don't just look at the franchisees who've been with the system for 25 years and maybe they already Oleksij Rak: Yeah. Jack Monson: have five locations and they're and they're making millions of dollars because that's not going to be you next year, right? Find those people who are just starting out, who've maybe been with the system for a year or two, and find out how they're doing. They're going to have a much more similar experience to what you're about Oleksij Rak: Yeah. Jack Monson: to have than someone who's you know, been successful for a couple of decades. So find those newer franchisees, I think. Oleksij Rak: Yeah, it really makes sense. You mentioned that you are choosing, you're working, you try to work with brands who are not just selling locations and then jumping out of business. How do you identify which brands are yours to work with? Jack Monson: You know, it's it's all about the relationships. I've been in this space long enough that I I think I I I I know the brands who I really want to work with and the people who I really want to work with. So we're keeping an eye on everybody. And there are so many brands out there that I would love to work with. You know, there ev ev just in the United States, there are over 4,000 franchise brands. And, you know, that to me says we have not just my company, but all marketing agencies and marketing professionals. Oleksij Rak: Yeah. . Jack Monson: There's a lot of of unexplored territory out there. There's a lot of work for everyone. there are so many brands who I think are on the verge of really going big. So talk to the people. don't just read their branded materials, but you know, meet them. Get involved with organizations like the International Franchise Association, which I'm I'm very active in. I'm also active with the Canadian Franchise Association. and and other groups across the globe. get involved with those people. Go to the events, some great events here in the States from franchise Update Media, you know, the IFA World Show, MFV expositions. There's so many great organizations that are putting on these events where you can get together and and not just pitch Oleksij Rak: Okay. Jack Monson: someone or have them pitch to you, but actually get to know them and develop that relationship. It doesn't happen fast. You know, no one goes to any of these events and and two weeks later they're walking away with big contracts. It doesn't happen that way in franchising. It's a very long, slow process. probably slower than a lot of people would would like to see. But I again, it's all about building those relationships. And, you know, I'm doing business now with people who I met almost 20 years ago. And and Oleksij Rak: Well Jack Monson: and I'm not doing a lot of business with people who I just met, you know, 20 days ago. It doesn't work that way. It's really, it's really something that you need to build in. I think there's a lot of marketing people and other suppliers in the space that that don't give it enough time. They don't let it cook. they they don't put in the resources and put in the effort to build those relationships and really find out who are those people who I trust and I know and and I want to work with. So it it does take time. That's but I think anything worthwhile will take a little bit of time. Oleksij Rak: Yeah, for sure. the more I chat with people from franchise industries, the more it feels like, you know, it's a big industry, but at the same time, it feels like franchise family. Everybody is bonding. Jack Monson: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We use that term a lot and and some people don't like it. I don't know if it's a family or or I like to look at it as I don't know if we're a family, but you know, maybe we're like an all-star team, you know, but you you build those relationships with people on your team and you know who you're gonna trust and you know who you really wanna work with. But you know, f franchise family is not a bad term. It's it it does describe sort of the overall feeling that people in this industry do have towards one another. I I can honestly say my best friends on the entire planet are all people who I've met through franchising. And and that's I think the same for most of us who've been in the business for more than a few years. These are the people who you talk to every day. These are the people who you spend time with and and the people who you who you break bread with. So it's it it really is a family, I guess, if you if you get down to it. Oleksij Rak: Yeah, somehow the whole system is built in a way that nobody is really competing with other players. So definitely some... Jack Monson: Yeah, yeah, the competition is yeah, the competition is interesting. I've been in other industries where competitors would never speak to each other and would never Oleksij Rak: Yeah. Jack Monson: share anything. just through the International Franchise Association, I see it all the time. Direct competitors are sharing best practices with each other. And and Oleksij Rak: Yeah. Jack Monson: they're they're helping each other out. They're making introductions. And you don't see that in other industries where I've been, but in franchising. It feels like there's a longer play happening here because that person who's a competitor now, he or she may be your boss someday, or you may acquire their company, or you may work together on a client or or something like that. So it isn't just, you know, that's a competitor, stay away from them. It's it's, you know, that's that's a person in the industry who you might need to develop a relationship. Oleksij Rak: Yeah, yeah, it's really interesting. How do you work with your clients? It's unbelievable. What do you help them with? So is it up or do I have to bring Jack Monson: Yeah, we yeah. Oleksij Rak: it? Jack Monson: Very much top. We we really start with a strategy of not just, you know, hey, let's run some ads and find some franchisees for you, but really finding out what their goal is. How many new franchisees do they need to bring on in the next year or two? where are they growing? Are they growing like like a lot of brands are growing mostly in the southeast or in Texas or Florida? Or do they have a a a broader plan and they're growing in in certain markets or certain parts of the the country or parts of the world. So finding out where they're growing, what their expectations are, and then from there we can kind of back into what the best tactics would be for them to grow. Do they need to do they need to get their brand more exposure? Or is it something that everyone's already familiar with? So we can go right to some some lead generation advertising and and pull in some leads. A lot of franchise brands we work with are sort of in the middle. They have a well-known brand, maybe in some parts of the the country or parts of the globe, but in other parts they're not as well known. So we need to do some branding and Oleksij Rak: . . Jack Monson: maybe some public relations and maybe some brand awareness advertising and other types of content. we we do have some brands that aren't really advertising yet at all, but they are putting out videos and they're putting out podcasts and they're educating their future franchisees about business opportunities. Those are the brands who I really love working with because they see sort of a longer play happening here where Oleksij Rak: Yeah. Jack Monson: they're they're giving away their expertise, they're becoming thought leaders, and they know that at some point people are going to join their partner or partner with their organization and and be part of that brand. So it really depends on what they need right now. what direction we go, but it really starts with that strategy of how are you planning on growing your business? Oleksij Rak: By growing a business, by marketing, mean Jack Monson: Yes. Oleksij Rak: involving franchisees or bringing franchisees, or Jack Monson: Bringing in franchisees, yeah. Oleksij Rak: bringing clients. Jack Monson: Yeah, yeah. Oleksij Rak: It's also part of the brand. clients and bringing franchisees. yeah, with regards to bringing franchisees, how does top of the funnel usually looks for franchisees or how many of them work with consultants or brokers? How many of them try to do direct marketing? Jack Monson: I would say with the we work with about 75 brands right now. And I would say about half of them are using brokers, and half of them are not using brokers. All of them are obviously using, you know, some sort of digital marketing and advertising along the way. But, you know, there there is a certain group that they've worked with brokers in the past and it just wasn't right for their brand. And then there are some who Oleksij Rak: Okay. Jack Monson: they some of their best deals come from brokers. So so, you know, half of their marketing or or half of their generation comes from a broker group. So it it really depends again on what their goals are and and where they're at and what type of brand they have. Oleksij Rak: What are the pros and cons of working with brokers? Like, that they are... expensive, right? But they Jack Monson: Yeah. Oleksij Rak: kind of bring value. Jack Monson: Yeah. You know, I mean, brokers can be very expensive, but they can also be very successful for some brands. Some some of our clients do very well with the broker community and and they get you know, they're really growing their business via brokers. And then other clients just haven't really haven't really cracked the code and and they're not doing so well with brokers. They they do much better on their own. So it's also a case of what's your internal team look like? You know, we've seen the rise of of FSOs, the franchise sales organizations, especially if, you know, maybe you don't have a huge sales team or or maybe you're a one-person sales department. that can be a definitely a good way to go. And then we've seen other brands that they really want to have that control and they want to, you know, make sure that it's it's them and their team only who are who are face to face with the candidates. So again, it it can change. It can change as quickly as, you know, a new CEO coming in who's got a different direction and a different way they like to do things. But I I would say overall that change is probably the biggest story of this year. We're seeing so many people change roles, so many new CEOs, so many new C chief development officers, chief marketing officers. And every time that changes, their marketing strategy changes and their business strategy changes. So so we're seeing Oleksij Rak: Yeah. So. Jack Monson: You know, just so many people move around and and I think overall change is good. I think it's a sign Oleksij Rak: Yeah. Jack Monson: that that companies are growing. It's a sign that companies have new investment dollars coming in, you know, definitely with private equity folks out there adding to the investment level of all of these franchise brands. I think that that change is going to continue. It's going to happen faster, but I think overall that's a good thing. Oleksij Rak: Yeah. Like again, comparing brokers like using brokers versus like own marketing efforts, which is more complex, which is more beneficial and which is more expensive. Time to explore this part of the... Jack Monson: Yeah, I I I would say say doing both is probably more expensive, but you know, you do need to do some marketing on your own, even even outside of even if you've got, you know, a a group that's doing all of your all of your lead generation for you, whether it's a broker or someone else. there's a certain amount of marketing of your brand that you need to do. You know, at the end of the day, who owns the brand? and and Oleksij Rak: Yep. Jack Monson: you've got to be in control of that. If you're not in control of it, someone else is. So, so I think, you know, there's a certain amount of, even if it's just some brand awareness campaigns or public relations, there's a certain amount of that that you can't just say our brokers are taking care of that. you've you've got to stay in control of your brand. You've you've got to stay in control of your brand for the sake of your current franchisees Oleksij Rak: Yeah. Jack Monson: as well, because That's really what they've bought into is your brand and your vision and your process. So you have to own that. You can't just say we're gonna outsource that to some brokers. Oleksij Rak: Is it like if when your franchise is a bit unknown or viral, the job of brokers is easier? You can just go... Jack Monson: of course. yeah. Yeah. If if if your brand is well known, the broker's job is pretty easy. And that's why a lot of brokers sort of, you know, tap into certain brands and and it works well for them and they love it and they're they're very successful. it's harder to get something off the ground that no one's heard of before. But if you're successful, that that should be that should be, you know, something new and exciting for you, whether whether you're a broker or a marketing agency. Oleksij Rak: If you are not so successful as a franchise, it easier to grow with brokers or start building your brand via marketing? Which one is more? Which approach? Jack Monson: I I would depending, yeah. Yeah, depending upon their situation, you might want to try both. You know, I I think I think we're in this constant world of A-B testing. Oleksij Rak: Yeah. Jack Monson: be pragmatic. Try lots of things, see what's working, because what worked for you a few years ago may not work now. I I Oleksij Rak: Yeah. Jack Monson: tell brands all the time that if you haven't changed your marketing approach or your business strategy since 2020 or before. You you've got to do something different because the world's changed twice since then. And and your business Oleksij Rak: Yeah. Jack Monson: has changed twice since then. So so try brokers, try, try sales organizations, try different marketing firms, see who's tapping into your opportunity and getting you good candidates and growing your business and and go with that. And here's the bad news. It's all going to change again in another two years or or sooner, right? It's it's it's changing constantly. So Yeah. So you've got to stay on top. you've you've got to change how you're presenting your brand. You've got to change how you're presenting your opportunity. The people who will be your franchisees five years from now have no idea about you right now. They're not even thinking about you right now. So you've got to start Oleksij Rak: Yeah. Jack Monson: planting those seeds and and get ready for that next wave of people. And and that means not doing things the same way that you did them 10 years ago. Oleksij Rak: I've had a couple of discussions with GTM folks, with go-to-market agencies, not in franchising, but in general. All of these folks say, start building your brand. You should invest into your brand. You should over-invest into your brand and under-invest into your sales efforts because brand is the key. That's actually Jack Monson: Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Oleksij Rak: what you're saying about seeding in 5G. Jack Monson: Yeah. Your sales tactics are gonna change. You know, everything that Oleksij Rak: Yeah. Jack Monson: we're doing now, if you listen to this podcast in twenty twenty seven or twenty twenty eight, it could all change by then. But your brand Oleksij Rak: Yeah. Jack Monson: is going to is going to last. So make sure it lasts. Oleksij Rak: Sure. With regards to the funnels that you built for the franchisees, so you start with the marketing funnel. Could you share how it converts, how it works? How many leads come in and what are the stages that they convert to the... Jack Monson: Sure. Sure. You know, the number of leads, it it really does come down to what your investment is. You know, are Oleksij Rak: Yeah. Jack Monson: are you investing five thousand dollars per month in getting leads? Are you investing ten thousand dollars? Are you investing twenty thousand dollars per month? You know, there is a formula w especially when it comes to paid advertising, where you can say you're going to close one new franchise deal for every $17,000 you spend in in advertising, or maybe for you it's $20,000, or maybe it's less. you've got to figure out that number. You know, for every Oleksij Rak: Yeah. Jack Monson: number of dollars we spend, we will close a franchise and and know what that number is and then figure out how to budget for it, and and that's your outcome. if you don't know what that number is, you've got a problem. You've you've you've you need some some help figure out figuring out what that number is. it's different for every brand, but there is sort of an industry standard out there that we follow, especially especially for various sectors. So for more expensive restaurant franchises, it might be one number. For something smaller, it might be a different number. But you've got to figure out that number. What do you need to do as far as advertising, resources, people? in order to get the number of of new locations open that that you want or or your or your owners and investors need. So that's the place to start. Oleksij Rak: And on top of that, you need to have your team, your sales team that works with these leads. Jack Monson: Yeah, yeah. They've got to work the leads. we've seen it before where we've had brands that were were sending them very good leads and you know they're not being worked on and and it's it's a crime. that's not a brand I really wanna work with. you know, I wanna I love working with the brands we're working with now because we get really good leads and I know that there's going to be a professional franchise salesperson. Who's going to be following up on every one of those leads? And and when we're successful, when they're successful, we're very happy. Oleksij Rak: How many of these leads actually convert of the leads that you send? Like 1 %? Jack Monson: It yeah, one percent is a good place to start. I I would I would like to see that number closer to five, maybe seven percent. If you can get to that point, you're you're in very good shape. So that's that's what we strive for. we we still see industry averages though, not happening with our clients, but but with some other brands out there, that half of the leads are not even getting contacted. And and it's just crazy. I I don't understand it. You're You're spending money on these leads and you're not working Oleksij Rak: Yes, Jack Monson: them, you know. So, but I think that's just some some poor sales management out there in the space. And eventually those people will not be in the industry anymore. So I I I think that's ending. Oleksij Rak: yeah also they are just burning their cash Jack Monson: Yeah, yeah. They're burning cash until they get bought out, right? I mean, maybe that's the case. But Oleksij Rak: Yeah. Jack Monson: but but I think overall people people sometimes worry about, you know, new money coming into franchising, private equity dollars coming in. I think what what comes along with that can be very good for a brand, and that's accountability. Because if a private equity company comes in and invests in your future, they're going to want to see results. And the idea of just burning leads and not making sales calls, those people are not going to stick around too long. So so it can be a very good thing to be held accountable. Oleksij Rak: Yeah, for sure. you mentioned 5 % of the leads that you sent converted. You tried to get towards that number, 5 to 7%. So there definitely is some qualification happening. Jack Monson: yeah. Yeah. And and and again, it it depends on not just the marketing, but you know, who's who's actually closing the deals. we we could you could take two different salespeople and and give them the same lead and and one will be successful and one won't. So Oleksij Rak: Yeah, but still it's not called code list. Code list would not convert it 5 to 7 percent. Jack Monson: No. Yeah, yeah. And and and that's that's really on the back of the marketing agency. You've gotta Oleksij Rak: Yeah. Jack Monson: we've gotta get away from this idea of of quantity of leads, you know. Well, we Oleksij Rak: Yeah. Jack Monson: need a thousand leads. Well, if you want a thousand leads, I can get you a thousand leads, but they might not be very good, right? So what what you want is is leads who Oleksij Rak: Easily, Jack Monson: are likely to become a franchisee. You know, so not just financially qualified, but someone who who actually is interested and has leaned in and you know, the best thing for any business is a person who's been doing their research and they've done their homework. And that's something Oleksij Rak: Yeah. Jack Monson: we didn't see 15 years ago, because the the salesperson for a franchise brand was probably having the first conversation about the brand with that person and educating them. Well now. Most of the people you talk to as a Fran Dev salesperson, most of those people have already done a lot of research on you or they wouldn't be spending their time talking to you. They've been through your website, they've they've watched the videos, they've listened to the podcasts, they've they've they've gone through Chat GPT and Claude and asked every question about you and your brand and your competitors. You know, that's Oleksij Rak: Yeah. Jack Monson: the other thing. If if you're if you're not doing well with With the large language models right now, it it's time to change your tactics because your your competitors are. There's someone in your space who's doing really well with the large language models. And if someone's asking ChatGPT what's the best pizza franchise in Texas, they're they're getting an answer. And you got you got to make sure that you are the answer, not your competitor. So that's that's another place where you need to spend a lot more time now that. Five years ago didn't really exist. Oleksij Rak: Yeah, for sure. And that's what I'm hearing from other industries, like clients come already educated and prepared. they already... Jack Monson: Yeah. We see that at some of the franchise expos. I go to all of the shows with MFV expositions and the IFA World Show and the multi-unit show. That used to be a place where someone walked in off the street and started learning about a brand or about franchising. The people who are showing up those shows now have already researched all of the brands that they're interested in. They they know exactly who they want to talk to and they have questions. Again, if I'm a salesperson. A well educated prospect is is my best friend because I want someone who is has leaned into this franchise industry so much that they've already done the research. Oleksij Rak: How about researching it nowadays? Because I was trying to research what's there online, like FranchiseGator and other websites. Being a franchisee, you feel like a product of some funnel of this website. Jack Monson: Yeah, right, right. Oleksij Rak: And they are really, really, really outdated. are from early 2000s, this website. Jack Monson: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oleksij Rak: But nowadays with the HFEI, language... Everything has changed. How do clients educate themselves? How do they learn? Jack Monson: More and more through asking all of the right questions on the AI platform. So we need to make sure that the brands we're working with are answering those questions in all of the content that they put out. So what we've developed at Thunderly is something called the Amplified Integrated Marketing Model AIM. And what we're doing is making sure that that all of the right questions that that a candidate would ask about our brands. or our brand's competitors, all of those questions are leading them back to our client brands. So that means we can't just put out Oleksij Rak: Yeah. Jack Monson: a Google ad and draw people in because people are using Google less and less, right? We need to make sure Oleksij Rak: Yeah. Jack Monson: that all of those questions about a brand and about opportunities with that brand are being answered not just in ads, but on the website. in articles, in in major news publications that that we can get things placed in, in press releases, in third party programs like Wikipedia and Reddit. And LinkedIn is is becoming more important every day for your brand, especially for brands that are trying to reach multi unit franchise owners. If you're not doing a lot on LinkedIn, the one piece of advice I would give you today is is start. Get on LinkedIn, write articles, write posts, make sure your executives are involved, put videos up, put links up, put text up, put everything up that you can about your brand and about your opportunity on LinkedIn. As you can tell, I'm a little excited about LinkedIn right now because that's Oleksij Rak: Yeah. Jack Monson: really, that's really the best place where I think most franchisors can spend their time right now. Oleksij Rak: Yeah, and how do you get these leads from? So do you help them build their presence online and regenerate sleep? Jack Monson: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. We we build their presence on LinkedIn, in videos, in podcasts, on their websites, through Oleksij Rak: Okay. Jack Monson: the media, through public relations, and then through advertising as well. And and that's where people are learning about the brand and and hitting whatever call to action that they want to hit and and driving those leads back to the franchise or. Oleksij Rak: Yeah, yeah, it makes sense. What can we notice like the common growth problems of the franchisors? So they start small, so they start like from their existing business and they build their system and they start selling the system. There are definitely some growth problems, scale problems. In Jack Monson: Yeah. Yeah. Oleksij Rak: any business there are, so as soon as you start working not with 10 or 20 people, but with 50 plus, know, it's already a growth problem. You don't already know all of them. Jack Monson: Right, right. when it comes to marketing, their biggest and that's really where I spend my time, their biggest problem is spending money on things Oleksij Rak: speak. Jack Monson: that that just no longer works. and that could be a certain type of advertising or it could be other types of marketing that maybe worked five or ten years ago, but it's just not working anymore. And I think people aren't aren't, you know, making a change fast enough to to move into something else or find something else that would work better. They just keep throwing good money after bad. And then at the end of the year, you've got no money and no leads. So, so I think changing faster and and keeping up to date with what's working with other brands kind of goes back to that sharing of information in franchising. Ask other people, ask other brands. How are you doing this? How are you growing your business? How are you getting from 50 locations to 100 locations so quickly? How did that happen? Oleksij Rak: Yes. . Jack Monson: Ask those questions, people will share, people will tell you. Oleksij Rak: Yeah, yeah, that makes sense. And what size of brands do you work usually? So it's like... Jack Monson: Really everybody. We we work with not really the the smaller emerging brands, but typically brands that that have twenty-five or more locations, they typically have sort of a a different level of need for franchise development marketing. And then we work with some brands that have thousands of locations. To me, it doesn't Oleksij Rak: wow. Jack Monson: really matter how many you currently have. It's it's How many do you need to get in the near future? And you know, sort of what's your level of interest in marketing and what's your what's your budget and what what's your resource and team look like? because you know, you could have a a there are some very large brands that that are sort of topped out. They don't really need to grow much more and they don't really need the type of marketing we do. So I love working with brands that are, you know, say 25 to a Oleksij Rak: Yeah. Jack Monson: maybe 200 locations. Those are the Oleksij Rak: Yeah. Jack Monson: brands that are still in that growth mode that we can really make a difference and help them with. it's just sort of my favorite spot to be in. Oleksij Rak: Yeah, at 25 they already felt that the system works, know, and now they need to sell it, so... Jack Monson: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And there are some franchisees out there who are obviously being successful that can validate. So so yeah, it's and unfortunately, if if you only have one or two locations open, you know, you're probably not in a space yet where you really have the resources to do a lot of national marketing. So, but some of those brands, I I love talking to those people and in in working with them 'cause some of those brands will be will be big someday. We've seen it happen. Oleksij Rak: Yeah, yeah, makes sense. You mentioned AI LLMs and so on. What automations do you use? So you need to build the client's brand. You mentioned you need to start posting on LinkedIn. Quite likely it's already... How Jack Monson: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Oleksij Rak: do you use all this modern tools nowadays? Jack Monson: You you know, you may you may find this a little shocking, but we don't use AI for any content creation. We Oleksij Rak: Okay. Jack Monson: use AI for efficiency and and for helping us get the content in front of the right people. But when it comes to creating videos or images Oleksij Rak: Mm-hmm. Jack Monson: or podcasts or writing articles, we we have a very talented team of content creators doing that. We we don't use AI for the actual content. I know there are a lot of agencies that are pretty much all AI and that's all they're doing. And that's fantastic. It it can, especially if you're sm a smaller brand and and you don't have a very big budget, AI might be a a good way to create a lot of content cheaply. but that's that's really not the the direction we're going right now. We we love our content creators and our our creative department and and and they're really building Oleksij Rak: Yeah. you Jack Monson: Stuff that quite frankly I don't think AI can do. Oleksij Rak: Do you not believe the inequality of AI and of AI posses? Jack Monson: Yeah, I I'm still I'm still skeptical of some of the content creation. I can still tell if if a podcast is is, you know, AI, if it's Oleksij Rak: Yeah. Jack Monson: not real live people. And and I'm just not interested in that. I I like talking to actual franchisees and actual experts and and and not having it be something that, you know, was was made up through a prompt. So When you when you hear one of our podcasts or see one of our videos, you know that it's it's a hundred percent real people. Oleksij Rak: Yeah, Actually, I'm hearing that from other industries. I've been interviewing a lot, the travel industry, and they also see this trend. People want to chat with people. And people want to see the photos of other people. if in the Jack Monson: Yeah, yeah. I and I I don't Right. Oleksij Rak: past it was good to post a photo of a boat, know, with just a boat, now you need to see people there, kids playing there, and so like it needs to look Jack Monson: Yeah. Oleksij Rak: authentic. Jack Monson: Yeah, real genuine stories. That's that's what people want to hear. Yeah. Oleksij Rak: Yeah, awesome. With regards to the industry itself, what trends, what other trends do you see in the industry? You mentioned private equity coming into the play. Jack Monson: Yeah, that's that's really the biggest thing, you know, mm larger budgets coming in, but also larger expectations. So, so some of the brands that you know are going to get much, much bigger very quickly and and some may go away. but that's really Oleksij Rak: Yeah. Jack Monson: been the the biggest thing in the past year or so. We talked a little bit about multi-unit owners getting into other sectors, you know, food people getting into other types of businesses. That's a trend that I I don't think is going away either. So we're seeing a lot of that, people broadening their portfolios. So private equity and and and broader portfolios are probably the two biggest trends that that I think will continue over the next couple of years. Oleksij Rak: There's also, you mentioned about people coming prepared. I've heard the trend of displaced IT professionals who come into the play. What else is in there? Maybe some smaller trends, but what's happening in the industry nowadays? Jack Monson: Yeah, I I think coming prepared, doing your research because it is so easy. But also, here's one negative thing about that. maybe maybe not all leads are as high quality because it is someone who's researching and and reaching out to so many brands at the same time. Let me tell you what what I mean by that. In the past, if if a lead came in and they were they were someone who really was interested in your brand and they took the time to fill out a form. Maybe they used maybe they used a pen, right? or they really researched somebody and they and they reached out and they made a phone call to you and they they wanted to have a conversation. Oleksij Rak: Yeah. Jack Monson: That person is really into your brand and they're really interested in having a conversation. Now you can use an AI program and reach out to a hundred brands in about five seconds and have that same Oleksij Rak: Mm-hmm. Jack Monson: that same, you know, sort of level of interest that that you're that you're saying you have. But when the the salespeople talk to them, they might not even remember your brand because it was one of a hundred that they that they filled out a form automatically for yesterday. So so we do want more leads, but but I think quality still is going to beat quantity because you can get as many leads as you want to pay for But they're not probably going to be as good. Oleksij Rak: If there was one tool that would help you with qualification of the leads with increasing the quality, what would it be? Jack Monson: boy, that's a great question. I I don't really know. I think, I think the best tool you have is having a real live conversation with them. Oleksij Rak: Yeah. Jack Monson: And and I think we may get away from, you know, a bot filling out a form on a website that's being answered by another bot, and and get back to the days of having a real live conversation. If if I had a conversation with someone, I know that that lead is much more quality than something that just came in that could have been could have been filled out by some sort of automation. So I think getting away from the tools and getting back to conversations and again relationship building, getting back to that I think is is really the direction we want to see more brands go. Oleksij Rak: But you are not doing that, so you are doing the top of the funnel, the marketing part. Jack Monson: Yeah. Yeah. I I I don't know that I want to get into the business of being an FSO or a broker or anything like that. There we're very good at the marketing end of it. And there are so many people who are so great at the at the sales and development end of it that I think we're gonna stay in our lane and and help those guys with some great leads. Oleksij Rak: Yeah. In the industry itself, what do you think is the biggest misconception or the biggest lie of the industry for French as it becomes? Jack Monson: Yeah, I I I yeah. Another great question. I I think we're still working with a general public and a government and a and a media that thinks of franchising as some giant business. You know, that that they don't see it as a hundred or a thousand individual franchise owners who are all under the same brand name. and and that's something that You know, we've been trying to educate the general public and the media and and the government on for decades, and it still hasn't quite turned the corner. So I think that's still our biggest challenge. It probably will be our biggest challenge down the road. But if we can keep chipping away at it, I think it will help most brands and most business owners. But you know, just the overall misunderstanding about what franchising is, I think is is still our biggest challenge. Oleksij Rak: Yeah, it feels so, because before you start learning what franchising is, you don't really understand that McDonald's is not one company. Jack Monson: Right. Yeah. Yeah. It's a great global brand, but there are also so many owners who who work under that brand. And and yeah. Oleksij Rak: thousand solders Jack Monson: And and I think overall, you know, the International Franchise Association and and the Canadian Franchise Association and all of the other groups, I think they do a very good job of of telling that story that franchising is local. It is working with a local owner in your neighborhood. But but it's it it's like anything else. That's a message that's gotta continue to get out there and repeated and grown. Oleksij Rak: Maybe the last one. I've been researching online about franchising industry, about the resources out there. I have not seen any franchise marketplace. Why is there... Jack Monson: I don't know. I I don't know why they haven't discovered us after all of these years, you know. It's it's Oleksij Rak: You know, real estate is quite nearby industry and it's Jack Monson: Right. Oleksij Rak: really advanced in terms of technology. Like business, Jack Monson: Yeah. Oleksij Rak: like selling businesses, you know, it's also advanced. But you come down to franchising and you see like platforms that are built like in early 2000. Jack Monson: Yeah. Yeah. I'm I'm not sure why we haven't gotten there yet, but but maybe that's another area to grow into for franchising. Oleksij Rak: Yeah. Awesome, Jack. Thanks a lot for great discussion. And before Jack Monson: thank you for having me. Yeah. Oleksij Rak: we wrap it up, is there anything else you would like to add? Jack Monson: No, just if if someone would like to keep the conversation going, you can always reach me on LinkedIn. just look for my name, Jack Munson, and and would love to chat with anybody at any time about Thunderly or about podcasting. Oleksij Rak: Yeah. Thanks a lot, Jack. And good Jack Monson: All right, thanks. Talk to you soon.