Latest / Nutrition Connection by Dr. Kristen Hicks-Roof / 47: Neva Cochran MS, RDN, LD, FAND - COMMUNICATIONS / PHILANTHROPY

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47: Neva Cochran MS, RDN, LD, FAND - COMMUNICATIONS / PHILANTHROPY · Nutrition Connection by Dr. Kristen Hicks-Roof

• Kristen Hicks-Roof PhD, RD: Welcome back to Nutrition Connection, the show where science meets storytelling. I'm your host, Dr. Kristin X. Roof, dietitian, researcher, and lifelong advocate of the role of nutrition, health, and wellness. Each episode, I sit down with dietitians and nutrition experts, leaders whose work touches nearly every aspect of our lives. So whether you're a student, a seasoned professional, or someone simply curious about food, nutrition, and health, this podcast is just for you. The views, thoughts and comments on this podcast do not reflect those of my employer nor the employers of my guests. So let's go ahead and get connected. Y'all I'm excited to bring on a fellow Texan of mine. We have Neva She is a nutrition communications consultant, ⁓ retired ⁓ and a community nonprofit volunteer and supporter. Welcome to the show Neva Cochran: Thanks, Kristen. I am so happy to be here and I'm very honored that you wanted me to be one of your guests. Kristen Hicks-Roof PhD, RD: is really excited. So we cross paths, wow, it's been several years through my Artie Mentorship Program because you are incredible as you've gone through your career really giving back. And that's what I'm excited for everyone to listen, like how you can not only have a successful career, but then give back in so many different ways. So we're gonna dive all into it, let me tell y'all. So, but let's start from the beginning. What inspired you and made you want to become a nutrition professional? Neva Cochran: ⁓ It's very interesting because I did not have this career path ever in my mind. I was math major. I loved math. I always excelled at math. Math always made sense. It was fun and I loved it. And one of my math teachers said, you should be a math major. And so having no other alternatives and I don't know, people didn't think about careers like they do now. Like high school students come out knowing what they want to do and I just had no clue. You just went to college. I was told the whole time I'm parents, you will go to college. So I said, okay, math, that sounds good, that's fun. So I did two courses in math, analytic geometry and calculus, and I decided math wasn't fun anymore. Even though I made A's in both of those, I just wasn't enjoying it. So I, in the second semester of my sophomore year is when I changed. So first semester of my sophomore year, I just kind of ⁓ was going around majorless. And I had ⁓ a friend in my sorority who was a nutrition major. So I said, ⁓ what's that all about? And I looked at the catalog and I said, ⁓ look at this. You have to take all this chemistry and physiology and nutrition and it's challenging. But it also has something that everybody in the world needs. So it was very practical. So second semester of my sophomore year, I changed my major to nutrition and took my first elementary nutrition course. And then I had to warp speed it through chemistry by going that summer. the fall, the spring, and the summer before my senior year, because there were four chemistry courses. And I got all of that in, and I managed to graduate in four years because that was the dictum from my father. Four years, that's it. Money's gone. So I... Kristen Hicks-Roof PhD, RD: Yeah, I was going to say it's not that he was he didn't mind you going more than four years, but the money's gone. Neva Cochran: Yeah, so I made sure I took 19 hours the first semester of my senior year, but I got it all in and I graduated and then That that's kind of how I fell into it. I think that was your question It wasn't I will tell you that I did take home economics for four years in high school and for people that don't know what home economics is that used to be a Course and you did cooking and nutrition and sewing. And I repulsed a chair my senior year and you did like house management, finances. It was just everything to prepare you to be a homemaker, which some people were still doing back then. ⁓ And I really, really enjoyed it. That's why I took it for four years. And I took math for four years too. But I did not see that as a career and I didn't see that as something I would do. And so when I went back to see my Home Economics teacher my junior year in college and I said, ⁓ I'm majoring in nutrition. And she said, where are you doing your internship? I went back to my, this is my second semester of my junior year. I go back to my major professor and my advisor and I said, what's this about an internship? And he said, we'll talk about that next year. Yes, I said, now, if you go into nutrition as your major, the freshman year, you take a course called Introduction to the Profession and they tell you about that internship and how you need to prepare for that all four years. No. Kristen Hicks-Roof PhD, RD: NO! Wow, that's crazy. I loved my home economics class though. And my kids are a Montessori and they integrate home economics. Like my little one, I was having our third little girl and she knitted her a little beanie cap for the winter. And I was like, these are awesome skills to be learning. Like that's where I feel like I learned not only sewing myself, but I really got into kitchen, cooking. Neva Cochran: Yes! Kristen Hicks-Roof PhD, RD: understanding like food science without realizing it's food science. So I do, I would love to see home economics fully come back in elementary schools, in middle schools, in high schools to really teach people. And I think more people might choose the career field of nutrition. Neva Cochran: Yeah, and I didn't see it as a separate entity. I thought you majored in home ec and that was not what I wanted to do because I didn't want to do all that other stuff. But one thing I also did was in high school, I had read this book called Careers in Home Economics. And there was only one career that I remember from that entire book to this day. And that was work for a food company, which I think was very interesting when you look at what I did later on in my career, what I really loved doing. there was no Google. Kristen Hicks-Roof PhD, RD: Yeah, let's dive in. Neva Cochran: So I couldn't figure out how to work for a food company. So I didn't see that as an option. Kristen Hicks-Roof PhD, RD: So let's dive in there. Let's talk about your journey. I mean, you have held so many roles and so many different niche roles, which I always think was really cool, especially you are a fabulous communicator. I mean, I feel like that's where you've really gained strength. talk about your career journey. you ultimately, became a dietician, you did your internship. What sort of roles have you had? And then ultimately to get to where you are today, which is retired. However, Trust me, people are listening, they think you're retired. You're not, you're super active. see you all the time, Texas women's and so many other things that you do. So give us a little overview. Neva Cochran: Okay, so back when I was in school, you could only apply to two internships. You were limited to two internships. I, yeah, and there was no internet. keep saying that, but you literally had to write to the academy, which was in the ADA, ⁓ and they would send you like a ⁓ book or something that had all the programs listed. And then you look through that book and then you had to write a letter to the program saying, send me information. So I collected a bunch of books just randomly, because I could go anywhere. And then I had to narrow it down to two. So one of them was Presbyterian Hospital of Dallas. And I was accepted there. And so I started that internship. was exactly one calendar year, literally 52 weeks with two weeks of vacation. So I did that. It was a general internship. So we had like equal amount of food service management and clinical. And then we had some community. And it was unusual for its time because we did do some things outside of just the traditional public health, for community. We went to a spa, a very upscale spa where women came to lose weight. And Helen Corbett, who was one of the very first chef dieticians and was founded the Zodiac Room at Neiman Marcus, ⁓ she was the consultant there. And she would come in once every two weeks, the length of time these ladies stayed, and did a cooking demo in the kitchen. And I got to meet her. And she had all these cookbooks and she signed them. And we did that. And we went to like a food broker. And we went to, you know, we did public health and WIC and school nutrition. We went to the SMU, Southern Methodist University, and did college food service. That was part of it. So it was really unique in that we got to do a lot of, we got to see the limited options outside the hospital. But at that time, 80 % of dietitians worked in hospitals, either food service or clinical. And then the other 20 % were in like long-term care consulting, education, school nutrition. There were no sports dietitians, no retail supermarket dietitians, very few private practice dietitians, no business wellness, any of that stuff. So you were very much kind of in that very traditional mold. So that's what I did. My first job was in Denton, Texas, about 30 miles north of Dallas, where there's the University of North Texas and Texas Women's University. I was at a startup private hospital that had only been open a year and a half, and I was the first and only clinical dietitian. I had to build a clinical nutrition department from scratch. which I did. And it was great. I mean, it was great experience because I was thrown in and I had to do it. And it was, I enjoyed it. I gained the respect of the doctors who didn't even, some of them didn't know what a dietician did. And I really did a lot of, you know, good things working in the clinical area there. But I can see that that was not my forever job. And fortunately, my administrator, I reported directly to the administrator, wanted me out in the community. I realized now he was using me as a marketing tool. He said, go out and speak to community groups, speak to the patient groups, do this, go out, get some students over here. So I'm on the phone with North Texas and TWU and before you know it, I have TWU students coming and working with me, but I also had those professors saying, you need to come back to graduate school. And so when I decided it wasn't for my forever job, I left and I got an assistantship at TWU. I had a couple of part-time jobs with a nephrologist, seeing patients in his office and being the dietitian for the. the newly opened dialysis center in Denton. And so I was able to go to school full time and work a little bit. And I completed my master's, did my thesis, and I came back to Dallas where I went back to work at the hospital where I did my internship for one year. I'm very good at one year. And... Kristen Hicks-Roof PhD, RD: That's crazy. That's crazy. You know, I do think that is I love how you said, I think he used me as a marketer because you are, I'm like everything that I've known from you in the last several years, you are such a great communicator. And I think many dietitians have this skill and they don't really know how to harness it or like what all the outlets are. So let's, let's keep going. Neva Cochran: Okay, well I want to say I was not like I am now. I was not at all. So if I can do it, anybody can do it. I literally, did the first group I talked to was called the Breathe Easy Club at the hospital and it was for chronic lung disease patients. I did what back then, you know, instead of my plate or the pyramid, we had what was called the Basic Four Food Group Guide. And I had a poster and I put it on an easel and I had a paper like this. Where's my paper? I'm going. The milk group, need to have three servings a day. A serving is one cup of milk, one cup of yogurt, one and a half ounces of cheese. I could not do it without reading my notes. But. Kristen Hicks-Roof PhD, RD: No, I would have never thought that. You are so confident now. Neva Cochran: It's just practice, practice, practice. And the more you do it, and I have another little saying that I'm going to tell you later, but I look back, because one thing I will advise people, I, from the very first presentation I did, I started keeping a list on an index card. And when that index card got full, I did it on the back. And then when I got a computer, I put it all in. I still have that original list. It's like 60 pages of presentations I've done. And I look back at that and I go, I did that? I went over and talked to a nursing class. When I was a dietician at Westgate Hospital, at TWU, I mean, where they found me, how they found me, and I can't believe I did it, but I did, because I never said no. But anyway, so once I worked at Presbyterian for a year, and I was more specialized there, you know, because it was a large hospital with a lot of dieticians, so I did the coronary care unit, the step-down floor for the heart patients, I did... the OB-GYN floor, which was fun, and then I did ⁓ two surgery floors later on. And so I got a lot of great experience, but it just, I decided this is not for me. And so I ended up being invited to come back and teach at Texas Women's University. And I taught, we had a coordinated undergraduate program, so I taught the senior ⁓ medical nutrition therapy courses and supervised them in their clinical sites in the hospital. Community nutrition, elementary nutrition for nursing students. I did that for three and a half years. And then I decided, you know, this isn't really what I want to do. It's just like you, I had a lot of false starts. I mean, it was fine, but it just wasn't something I want to do forever. Then I went to dairy, what was a local dairy council unit. I discovered my niche. It was so we, at that point, what we did was we taught teachers to teach nutrition. in the classroom. had units for second grade and fifth grade and teachers could get our materials for free every single year that they were teaching that grade if they went through a 45 to one hour training with us. And that's what I did most of my time. I'm out on the road. had I had North Dallas suburbs all the way to the Oklahoma border and I went and taught these teachers. And then we work with school nutrition to try to do marketing and merchandising to increase. ⁓ it was to increase students using school lunch, but also that got more milk in, because milk was part of the school lunch. ⁓ We did ⁓ a lot of media, which dovetailed because I became the first state media rep for Texas, while I, right when I first got that job with Dairy. So I was doing media for them, I was doing media for Dairy. ⁓ It was just, we talked to community groups, we had presentations on osteoporosis, on balanced eating. And so if any like little club or women's group or Rotary Club wanted you to come and talk, you were out there doing it. I love that job. And so ⁓ I stayed there for three and a half years. And then I went out on my own and I did an array of things. I started out, I taught a weight control class. I ended up with teaching a cardiac rehab outpatient one day a week for 13 years. I then became the national media spokesperson after five years as Texas. I became the national spokesperson for the Academy, which I did for seven years. And through that, I met, you know, I did a lot of interviews with magazines and newspapers across the country as well as TV and radio. And I got to know the Woman's World, which is a weekly women's magazine sold on the stands at the grocery store as you check out. ⁓ I was used as a quote, but they liked me so much they asked me to work for them. I worked. as an ongoing freelancer for Women's World magazine for 20 years. Every week. It was a pressure cooker. But I learned so much. I learned so much about writing for the consumer. And in that time, in that 20 years, I worked for two other magazines, just fell into my lap. One was called The Female Patient, which is a magazine in doctors waiting rooms. And then there was Maximum Fitness, which was a men's muscle magazine. And I had like a six page spread in Maximum Fitness of a meal plan. and all the beautiful pictures, which of course I didn't do, ⁓ but it was really, really a wonderful experience. And at the same time, part of that time, I'm still being a media spokesperson, so I'm doing all kinds of interviews. ⁓ after that, ⁓ after I finished being the media spokesperson for the Academy, I could then speak for other groups, because once you're doing the Academy, It's a conflict of interest to speak for any other company, organization, or group. So I start, yes. Kristen Hicks-Roof PhD, RD: Can we pause for a second? I want you to dive a little bit deeper. Tell people what is all entailed in Academy spokespeople, because you see it all the time, they're highlighted. So just give us, how do you become one? What kind of responsibilities do you have? And I think the conflict of interest and not working for other brands is also very important as people want to get into media. Neva Cochran: There are around 25 national spokespeople for the Academy and they are in the major media markets. There is a selection process. They stagger the opening of the market, so there's always a new influx of people. And you have to apply. You do an interview, like a little media interview with the staff and some volunteer ⁓ former spokespeople or current spokespeople. Anyway, I was selected, so it is a competitive process. And then once you do it, you have very professional ⁓ very intense media training with professional media trainers. So you are actually put in a situation of doing interviews and they're tough. They do the worst possible thing that could ever happen to you in interview. So you really learn how to deal. You learn how to create messages. You learn how to control an interview. You learn how to write pitch letters and you learn all the things that you need to do to be a spokesperson. And so I love doing that and I I was very successful. mean, the first year our quota was 25 interviews and I did 60. I was so worried that I wouldn't make my quota, but I got a really good idea and I pitched it and it went like viral before things were viral. Kristen Hicks-Roof PhD, RD: That's awesome. You know, and that's what I said. You are such a great communicator. And I think that the, you know, the spokesperson is such a great role for people across industries, right? Like you have academics as spokespeople, you have clinical dietitians, and so it allows to have a voice beyond just your workplace. So let's keep going a little bit. So you became a spokesperson, you had a very successful career, which I'm not surprised because like I said, you're a very good communicator. What happened afterwards? Neva Cochran: So after I left the spokesperson program, I could start to work for other companies. And that was just on the cusp of when they were starting to say commodity groups, food companies, nutrition and ingredient ⁓ organizations or companies. They were like, we need a network of dietitians. And who better? They had this little cottage industry of dietitians that had all this professional training and all this experience. So they started out, it was all the former spokespeople. And we would refer to each other. If they were building an extra network and they would say, ⁓ we need somebody in Atlanta. I go, ⁓ why? someone in Atlanta and you know so we'd refer back and forth and we'd end up on these same networks and I did that for quite some time ⁓ and at the same time I'm working for the magazines and you know there were other just things the freelance things that came and go so some of these I would have contracts like for seven years sometimes it would be two months or one month or one opportunity or six months it was just all so I sometimes I would be working for like seven different organizations at one time. and the magazine. it was quite intense, but I really, really enjoyed it. And that's at the end, the last 10, 12, 15 years, I really focused in more on the agriculture. Because I was working for an agricultural company, and I worked for a lot of commodity groups. Because I'd come from dairy, which was a commodity, but I did consulting with the beef council. I did ⁓ egg nutrition center. I was on their advisory board for 20 years. ⁓ So I did a lot of different commodities work for a soy ingredient company cherry marketing Institute California raisin marketing board for two years I work with produce for better health leafy greens marketing agreement So ⁓ I just I did all foods, ⁓ you know I just really enjoyed that and One of the things that I really became known for is my reputation for standing with science And I know that that is something you wanted to talk about so is there any Kristen Hicks-Roof PhD, RD: Yeah, well, we're definitely get into that before we jump into science because I could talk science all day. Talk about what you do now. I think what you do now about giving back and mentorship, especially I would love for you to dive a little bit deeper to what you opened with Texas women's. I think that's so incredible and powerful. So let's dive a little bit deeper into that. Neva Cochran: Yeah Well, let's kind of go back. Like in 2003, I was asked to start being a preceptor for nutrition communications for dietetic interns from Texas Women's University. And then a little couple of years later, my internship, Texas Health Presbyterian, they came to me. So over the period of time from 2003 to 2021, when I stopped doing interns, I precept 130 interns for a one week nutrition communications rotation. I loved it. I, so it gave me a lot of, some of these are, I still, like one of them took me to lunch a couple of weeks ago, 2010, and she wanted my advice. I mean, there's others that I stay in touch with that I work with together professionally. And so I'm, I don't know, it's just like, I can't stop helping people. And so I have all kinds of students and interns and young dietitians that will just ask me, and I'll say, sure, I will have a phone call or I will have a zoom. with anybody that wants my advice. I'm honored that people think that I can help them. And it's wonderful to see what they actually, know, accomplish in their careers. I mean, I can tell, I can drop names of some of my mentees or former mentees and you'd go, wow. I mean like Amy Goodson. I mean, you look her and she's like, you know what I love about Amy is, I mean, I don't take credit for everything she's doing, but she will still mention my name. Kristen Hicks-Roof PhD, RD: Yeah, ⁓ I mean Neva Cochran: and how I've helped her. I think that's, you it's like, and she is so giving it forward. She will take any intern. She will take any intern and she will talk to students. She has to do it when she's in the car driving, because that's all the time she has. But if I ever ask her to talk to a student or an intern or a young dietitian, she will do it. So she pays it forward. She really does. So. Kristen Hicks-Roof PhD, RD: I think mentoring is so key. mean, I know that that's when you and I first connected because you were in our already mentorship program. And I just I love how people can give back, whether you're early in your career or later in your career. There's always that opportunity. And you're right. Like some of these people who you mentor now have these incredible careers. Right. And that is just part of the mentoring process. And it's fun to watch them grow. No, you can't take credit for it, but like there's a piece of you that's like, I had my fingerprints on that, you Neva Cochran: Amy even spoke at our Texas State Conference last Friday and Saturday and she did a session there and right in middle of it she goes, you know Neva once told me and I'm like, ⁓ yeah, I mean she just like said it because she knew I was sitting there in the room and she goes and she was right. It's just one little tidbit. Kristen Hicks-Roof PhD, RD: That's awesome. That's awesome. So let's talk a little bit about what you do with Texas women's now after you've been precepting. Neva Cochran: ⁓ okay. Well, okay. My original degree was from the University of Oklahoma and then my master's from Texas Almond University. I'm engaged with both of them and ⁓ the actually OU a year and a half ago gave me their Regents Alumni Award. And I have a scholarship there and I have a scholarship at TWA. So what I did, I was presented with this opportunity last fall. They built the state of the art health science and center. for Texas Women's University, I mean so advanced, so futuristic, all the wonderful experiences, and they're really looking a lot at interprofessional education, which I think is something that you're very passionate about too. And they toured me this whole building and wonderful, well they built a kitchen in there, and it is a state of the art teaching kitchen. And they offered me the opportunity to, they have naming opportunities for everything in the building. I mean you could probably have a toilet named after you if you want. Kristen Hicks-Roof PhD, RD: ⁓ yeah. Neva Cochran: your little toilet stall. They have a lactation room and someone bought the naming rights for that. I bought, I mean, I made a donation to the foundation. The reason, it was presented to me a few years ago when the building was still doing it and they told me it was for care and maintenance of the building and that did not excite me. So I kind of just filed that folder away. And then when they came back and they told me the same thing but it was a different person and I just kind of looked and she said, you could direct it to nutrition. I go, okay, let me think about it. Let me talk to people about it. Kristen Hicks-Roof PhD, RD: That's cool. Neva Cochran: And so that's what I ended up doing. And I designated half of the money to go for the kitchen, for the function of the kitchen. And then half of it goes back to the nutrition and food sciences department. And one of the needs that the chairman said was continuing education for faculty because they have very little budget for that. So that's what the other part, it's in an endowment to provide for that. yes, my name is on a kitchen. But the reason I did it is because I wanted the money to make a difference in what they're doing in nutrition and food sciences at Texas Women's University. Kristen Hicks-Roof PhD, RD: wanted to highlight that because I think it's so important that we can give back in so many different ways. It could be your time, it could be your energy, it could be your thoughts, but it can also be financial. And you look back at those faculty who have had imprint on you and the success that you can have. And I think it's an opportunity for us to say, man, maybe we should give back to the people who gave to us very early. I always love I love that one day I definitely want to have scholarships in my name ⁓ and to be able to give back. We already give back quite a bit to one of my main alumni, Texas A ⁓ University. And there's just like an honor about it, but it's also, I'm very thankful because they opened doors that I would have never had opened without those opportunities and those faculty who made that happen. Neva Cochran: Yeah. Kristen Hicks-Roof PhD, RD: Karen Beathard, she's my episode number one. I mean, she has made such an imprint on me personally, and she's still a great friend and collaborator of mine. So it does go a long way. Okay, let's talk about science, right? So how does science or data impact what you do in your day to day? And I know you're retired, but it's still very important to you. Neva Cochran: is still there. ⁓ You know, one of the things as a nutrition communications consultant, one of the reasons that some of the companies and organizations came to me is because I had a reputation for standing by science. I said, never oatmeal and blueberries never came to me because number one, there's no controversy. Number two, I don't do recipes. I do science. And so I would get things like high fructose corn syrup. GMOs, ⁓ low and no calorie sweeteners. Those are the kinds of people. And it's funny because people think, you I've had people like actually accuse me, ⁓ you just say that because of the money. Let me tell you how I got calorie control counsel. They called me up one day and they said, you're posting our messages. Would you like to work for us? And I go, okay, I'm doing it for free. And they want to pay me to do the same thing. Okay, I'll do that. Kristen Hicks-Roof PhD, RD: ⁓ yeah! Neva Cochran: Because it's science and I would, I, you know, I had like, was my own business and I would post all kinds of stuff about nutrition, whether I work for people or not. And so I am a proponent and I have been a consumer of low and no calorie sweeteners since I was a child and the first one came out. And, and there, you know, I know the scientific rigor that those sweeteners have to go through before they are approved by the FDA. I know the safety and efficacy. I have a whole PowerPoint. do presentations on it. So. I'm not doing it for the money. I'm doing it because I want people to feel like it's okay to take the guilt out of it. That it's okay to enjoy sweet foods that you're not getting calories or sugar from. Kristen Hicks-Roof PhD, RD: No, honestly, I love that. And I think sometimes there's, I was just talking to a class at ⁓ University of Georgia the other day and I was trying to talk to them like, if you're ever communicating, standby science includes science. You can include referencing, right? Because it allows us to bring the credibility of what our profession is all about. We are rooted in evidence-based medicine. And the only way to do that is to actually have the science behind it. So. I love controversial topics because I'm like, all right, let's have the debate, no problem. Where's the science? And when someone shows up empty handed, I'm like, it's not really a debate. You can't bring your opinions. Now, yes, you can have your clinical expertise, which I think sometimes science to clinical translation, like sometimes there is some nuance there and I do get that. But also don't come to the table empty handed because we are credentialed practitioners and we are evidence practitioners. Neva Cochran: And that is what sets us apart from the pseudo-nutritionist or so-called nutrition experts is that we deal with science and evidence. And they don't. And people will say, you know, they're the ones, they have all the followers and they get so much, you know, they get so much, you know, attention. And I go, well, they can lie. We can't. Kristen Hicks-Roof PhD, RD: Right? ⁓ a hundred percent. I love that. actually, I'm going to steal that. Neva Cochran: And you know, I mean, that's true. They can say anything. And science sometimes isn't sexy. But if you can make something, you know, exciting by not giving the facts, giving your opinion or what you want, people want to hear, or that it's an easy fix, it's going to cure something. You know, that's what people want are easy answers to complex problems. But we can take a page from their book. And we can make things fun and interesting and exciting. And I think that's one of the benefits of the culinary movement, which I'm not a part of that, but one of my very closest friends, Cindy Kleckner, is a really known, well-respected culinary dietician. And she's all about flavor. And she's all about, you know, she makes it come to life. And we really know that. That's how people really learn to enjoy food, is they have to know how to do it in a way that they enjoy it, even if it's healthy. Kristen Hicks-Roof PhD, RD: Oh yeah, well and I can't tell you the amount of times that people will be like, oh, what do you want for lunch? You just want a plain salad? I'm like, no, just because I'm a dietitian does not mean I eat plain salad, number one. Number two, flavor is still my main driver of what I eat too. And like, I think that's such an important message and that's a lot of what I love to do too is like, how do you bridge science but then practicality because... Science is great, but it's in a vacuum if it can't be translated to something that someone would actually do. And I think you started to see science move that direction. I think we have a long way to go. Like I was just in a research study myself and I had to take this supplement every single day to help with like GI and performance. I had to like close my nose. It was so bad. And at the end, I'm like, it was super effective. I had no issue, like GI issues. It was helping performance. Like it was doing everything it could, but I had to write in the review. I'm like, I could not for the life of me eat that or drink that every single day. Like I almost threw up half the days. You know what I mean? And so I think that's where science and flavor and practicality need to come together. So let's talk a little bit. You've had an awesome career. It's been fun watching you over the years of how long I have known you. What's been your most favorite or something you're most proud of so far? Neva Cochran: You know, one of the things I haven't mentioned that I did, you know, I did a lot of leadership within the Academy. I was president of Dallas at districts. I was president of the Texas Academy. was in the House of Delegates and the House of Delegates Executive Committee. I was on the Foundation Board and I was chair of the Foundation. You know, what I did with the Foundation, you know, I was very excited. I was on the board when we started the Kids Eat Right program and that was our first public, you know, education initiative. And I think that, you know, there's a lot of There's a lot of wonderful resources for both our members as well as the public that come through the Kids Eat Right. But also I am very passionate about this profession. I am passionate about the foundation. And I say it is the only foundation that is solely focused on our profession. Registered dietitians, dietetic technicians registered, and promotion of science-based nutrition information and what dietitians do. If we don't support our foundation, Who will? People have a knee-jerk reaction to give to the Heart Association if they have a friend or family member that dies of heart disease. But nobody is thinking about giving to the academy. So it's us, or maybe our family, or a few friends that know. But we have got to support our profession. And not only do we do scholarships for students, both at the undergraduate and graduate level, we do grants for members. We support research. We have awards for ⁓ outstanding practice. So I'm really still working with the foundation on fundraising. And I have been ever since I was, before I was on the board, after I was on the board. So I think that's maybe one of the things I'm most proud of because I see that as having a lasting impact on the future of our profession. And I've worked on the capital campaigns. We raised $5 million for the second century, which is still creating fellowships and opportunities. And then we just finished up the $1 million Make It a Million Scholarship campaign, which is again critically important. So I just would like to encourage people that are members of the Academy or even not to give to the Academy Foundation because that is the future of our profession is doing that. Kristen Hicks-Roof PhD, RD: Well, I think that is an important plug and it goes back to, what we were talking about with Texas women's and even giving back comes in so many different ways. If you are called and you have the financial means, like definitely give back. But if you don't have the financial means, that doesn't mean that you can't get back. Serve on the board, provide some comments, volunteer with a leadership organization. Like there's so many ways that you can get involved. And one of the things that drives me up a wall is when people complain about our profession. Neva Cochran: Yes. Yes. Kristen Hicks-Roof PhD, RD: We don't get paid enough. We don't have adequate billing and reimbursement. We don't have variety of career paths, whatever it is. And I'm like, you know what? What are you doing about it? Are you sitting at the table? Are you making part of the momentum to go there? Because you need not only the pioneers, which I would consider you one of the pioneers to be able to move the needle, but you also need everyone else to join those pioneers and those leaders if we're gonna actually make that change. I think that it is an incredible impact. I have personally received a number of scholarships and awards from the academy and my undergraduate, my graduate and my PhD level. you know, that made it happen. You know, without those rewards and awards, I don't know if I would be where I am today. So I do believe that there is so much power and you're impacting people that they don't maybe know that you're impacting them, but they know that that award or that scholarship made an impact on them being able to finish their career and become a dietitian. So let's move in. Neva Cochran: Well, have a couple of, I just wanted to say a couple of things to follow up on that. I do have a nutrition communication summer experience grant that's six weeks for a new dietetic student, either undergraduate or graduate level, but it's called the Frederick Green Memorial ⁓ Nutrition Education Experience, I don't know, it has a really long name. That's my uncle who was a farmer rancher in Central Texas his entire career. And so I named it after him. And ⁓ another thing you said, You may not be able to give, I think anybody can give. They have monthly giving things that you can do with the foundation. If you could just give $10 a month, you can do that. So there is no amount that's too small. I think what's important is to start giving and give regularly and then as you advance in your career and you can maybe give a little more. But if everyone would give, it's amazing how much money we would have. Just $10 a month, we would have so much money, we would be able to fund all kinds of scholarships and grants. But I just wanted to add that. Kristen Hicks-Roof PhD, RD: I think you're right. I think you can give at many different levels and there's obviously a lot of different things you can give to. So find what you're really passionate about, whether it's your alumni or if it's the foundation or whatever it is and realize that passing it back is part of us being successful as a profession. So let's talk about, again, you've had this awesome career, especially in the communications, which is really your bread and butter. And I love how you tie in agriculture because I'm super passionate. about agriculture as well, but what suggestions or tips do you have for someone who's interested in a career like yours? Very diverse, but also a lot really honed in on communication. Neva Cochran: ⁓ I get asked that a lot and I actually have Zooms. All my scholarship recipients or my grant recipients, I try to connect with them and if they want to, some of them I mentor. ⁓ My scholarship recipient at OU, we actually started having Zoom calls almost two years ago. She got it two years in a row and even now she's a dietician. I encouraged her, she wouldn't even like. two months in her job and she told me about cooking classes that she was doing. She works in a facility for children with developmental disabilities and she resurrected some cooking classes that they used to do. And she told me about it. go, that is so fascinating. I said, you should write that up and submit it as a proposal to your state, Oklahoma, your state ⁓ conference. And I said, look on the website. She goes, ⁓ it's due at the end of October. And this was last September. I said, well, you're coming to Fency. I'm coming to Fency. Do a draft and we'll look it over. And she submitted it and she got accepted. two weeks ago on Friday, presented, not even a year as a dietitian, she presented at a state conference. So first of all, you can do things, you just have to know, and she probably didn't know that. And that's why it's good to have a mentor that's looking out for you and helping you. But one of the things that I have said, I have this little saying, I don't know where it came from, when I thought it up, but I've had a lot of people say, if you just had one piece of advice to give me as someone starting out, what would it be? And it's take opportunities, make opportunities, and walk through fear. Kristen Hicks-Roof PhD, RD: That's awesome. Neva Cochran: And in 2016, I was asked to give the commencement speech for the College of Health Sciences at Texas Women's University. And I used that as my theme for my eight-minute presentation, tracing only my media career from my very first job when that wasn't even a thing. But I was doing things, which I later looked back and went, oh my gosh, I was doing media back then by writing letters to the local paper. And they were publishing them. Then they started calling me for quotes. But anyway, take opportunities, make opportunities, and walk through fear. So I think that some of the things that I would recommend is do look for mentors that are doing that. And like I said, people call me, I know a lot of other people that are doing it, like Amy Goodson, who will talk to anybody that wants to know more about it. Some of the things that you can do just to get started, you can start your own blog. Now we have Substack. You can sign up for a Substack and you can write a blog. You can make a Facebook business page and you can just start posting social media. Get on social media, that's where people are. And we need more dieticians on social media. You may not get paid for it, but what it does, it gives you recognition. And I have a young dietician that I've mentored in New Jersey that came to me. She was doing stuff when she was a student. Great stuff, I started following her on Instagram, we connected. And so when she was a dietician, she asked to have a Zoom with me. And she did everything I told her. I said, you need to, ⁓ there's a place where reporters go, it's called Help a Reporter Out, Harrow, he sends emails, sign up for that. She started. responding as a source and then pretty soon she's writing for money because she started pitching these people. So it's going out of your comfort zone so it's like not only taking opportunities but making new opportunities and then just doing it because it's all kind of scary but you have to do it. ⁓ You can write for free publications. can write, there's little magazines like parenting magazines or you different ones that I see at the supermarket or the little stands you take for free. You can pitch to them and write for free and then you have clips. Nobody knows you didn't get paid for that. I worked for 10 years writing a one page article for a magazine called Southern Dallas County Business and Living Magazine. It was a free magazine. was an ad paid for. know, ads generated the income. And I used it as a place that my interns could write an article. I took it on. Now, if my interns didn't write an article, I still had to have an article every year for 10 years and finally gave it off to somebody else. But then... My interns had a byline article with their picture with me and did all this, you know, we would decide together. So anyway, write for free magazines or free like local newspapers or your kids PTA newsletter or wherever you have or a website. And then, you know, once you have some evidence that you can write or that you can speak, then you can start pitching for money. ⁓ Also, say join, you know, join the academy, but join DPGs or member interest groups that fit your need. Network with other dietitians that are doing what you like to do. And, you know, there's dietitians in business and communication. There's nutrition entrepreneurs. There's culinary, the culinary ⁓ professionals group. There are a lot of opportunities out there where you can meet people that are doing that kind of thing. Or no matter what your career path is, get in with the people that are doing what you want to do and learn from them. Kristen Hicks-Roof PhD, RD: I mean, I, geez, that is like awesome advice. That is gold, y'all. That is gold. You don't even realize that's gold. I remember you made me think of, used to write for Florida Newsline and it was like this small little newspaper in Southern Jacksonville, Florida when I was a faculty member and I used to do the same thing. I would bring my students in. I'm like, help me write this, you one page. And it was free. I mean, I got no benefit, but now all of sudden I know one time I was, ⁓ I was volunteering actually at a community event and someone's like, hey, are you the one who writes that Florida Newsline article? Cause I was reading that. So I think, you know, as credentialed experts, we can go out and be that voice and know you're not always going to get paid, but sometimes you have to plant the seeds to then get paid later down the road. And so it's kind of like, yeah, you start free, but then you will build that, but don't expect to get paid a lot of money right at the beginning because that doesn't typically happen. can. but it's rare. Okay, last question here, Neva. If you had a crystal ball, what do you think is coming next in nutrition? Neva Cochran: Oh my gosh. Interprofessional education is one of the things I was thinking about and we talked about that. I just see such an increase in that being an emphasis for students as well as professionally and that's what we've always wanted. So I think that is going to be a focus that we're to see more teamwork together in healthcare. I think the weight loss drugs and bariatric surgery, I I know from the people, the MD and PhD researchers are in it, they're going this is a game changer. And I heard Antonio Miranda speak at the Texas Academy on GLP-1s last week, and he had a whole list. He goes, this is only the beginning. This is not the end. And he was going through all the things, like we're going to be able to look at genes, and we're going to be able to customize weight or health ⁓ interventions based on genetics. So I think there's so much more down the line that's going to make everything in health care more precise and customized to the patient, because we're going to be able to have better data about them as individuals. ⁓ I'm looking at my little list here. ⁓ I think we're definitely going to more virtual. know, that that open that door was open during COVID. And I see that as an opportunity for dietitians. When you look at the big ⁓ like the private practice, virtual ⁓ organizations, you know, more and more dietitians are working for them. It's it makes more opportunity for people who would never have access to a dietitian living in rural communities like in Texas, one dietitian in the whole county. You know, so they're not going to come in contact with one, but they now can. So I think that that I just think that dietetics and dietitians can expand everywhere. Wherever there are people, there is a place for a dietitian. Like I said, all these places that didn't exist, sports, retail, business and industry, health and wellness, all of those things didn't exist when I was starting out my career. And now they're big areas of practice. So I think we're going to see it even more and more that every place people are, a dietitian can be. And a lot of times it's going to take us taking that opportunity. finding and taking and making and walking through fear to make us get there. And you know, there are people doing that now, but we all need to do that. We need to be our own best advocate. Kristen Hicks-Roof PhD, RD: I love that and I completely agree. I am an internal optimist, but I truly believe we are at a pivotal point where you're starting to see more dieticians on healthcare teams, more dieticians in food as medicine initiatives, more dieticians needed for things like complexities with GLP-1 medications, which you're right. mean, the phase two and phase three clinical trials, if you wanna dive deep, it is fascinating. how effective they could be. Could you imagine a one shot every six months instead of every week? I mean, that's the direction we're going. So, Neva, it was such an awesome conversation. I'm so happy to bring you on and be here to really be that insightful and that mentor, which I know that you have done for so many people. So if you liked the episode, make sure you like, subscribe, leave a review. But most important, check out the next episode because every episode I bring on a different dietician and nutrition expert. to share their story and give you tips and advice on how to be successful.