Latest / All Figured Out with Andrea Barr: Figuring Out Work, Life and Parenting / 110. 4 Kids by 27, Broadway by 50: Life is Long Enough to Reinvent with Jennifer Manocherian

Transcript

110. 4 Kids by 27, Broadway by 50: Life is Long Enough to Reinvent with Jennifer Manocherian · All Figured Out with Andrea Barr: Figuring Out Work, Life and Parenting

0:00
Welcome back to the All Figured Out Podcast.
0:02
I'm your host, Andrea Barr, and I want to thank you so much for
0:05
joining me again today. Today's conversation is one that
0:09
I think is going to stay with you for a long time.
0:12
I am joined by Jennifer Manocherian, who is a woman
0:15
whose life story truly reads like a novel.
0:18
But what I noticed throughout the conversation was that it is
0:20
still very much in progress. She is 86 years old, and she
0:25
became a mother of four by the age of 27, right as the women's
0:28
movement was gaining momentum for the decades that followed,
0:32
becoming a mother, eventually having five children.
0:35
She reinvented herself over and over and over again.
0:39
She was in public relations in her husband's company.
0:42
She got into family therapy. She was a divorce mediator.
0:46
She was a Broadway producer, she was a filmmaker, she is a
0:49
novelist, and she is so much more.
0:52
She has five children, 15 grandchildren and 1 great
0:56
grandchild. And she has a career that is
0:58
still thriving and evolving. Jennifer just honestly embodies
1:01
somebody that believes and truly lives the feeling and the notion
1:06
that life is long and that there is always time for new chapters
1:10
and new iterations. It just brought me so much
1:13
comfort and joy to hear that you don't have to have everything
1:17
figured out, pun intended, but you don't have to have all your
1:21
stuff figured out by the age of 30, by the age of 40, by the age
1:25
of 50. Like I asked her that question
1:27
at the very end and she had an awesome answer when I asked her.
1:31
Like, what do you say to the person who feels like they have
1:33
to have everything figured out by 40?
1:35
And she left, and she had an amazing answer.
1:37
So you have to listen to hear what she said in our
1:40
conversation. You were going to hear about how
1:42
she navigated guilt and joy in parenting, what resilience
1:46
really looks like along the way, especially when paths shift,
1:49
especially when you realize you know your time is up in a
1:51
certain area or that something's just not working for you and
1:55
your family. And why She also believes that
1:58
it's never too late to pursue something new.
2:00
This episode is such a gift. So much wisdom from someone who
2:04
might be a few years older. Thank you.
2:06
And it's honestly a chance to just sit down with someone who's
2:08
lived so many lives and is still so curious about what it might
2:13
look like and what might come next.
2:15
So without further ado, it is my pleasure to bring you this
2:18
conversation. Enjoy.
2:22
You're listening to the All Figured Out podcast.
2:24
I'm your host, Andrea Barr. I'm a career coach for parents,
2:30
mom of two, and a self-proclaimed expert at
2:32
winging it. I've learned one thing, No
2:35
parent has it all figured out and that's OK.
2:38
So grab a coffee or hide in your car for some knee time.
2:42
We're about to figure out this work, life and parenting stuff
2:45
out together. Jennifer Manocherian, thank you
2:50
so much for coming on the All Figured Out podcast.
2:53
It is such a pleasure to have you here today.
2:55
Thank you, Andrea. I didn't say it right, Andrea.
2:59
Oh yeah, you. It was close.
3:01
It was close. Close.
3:02
It was a pleasure. It's a pleasure because you're
3:05
very nice person. Well, the feelings are mutual.
3:09
We connected through the interwebs through I believe your
3:13
agent was it. I don't have an agent.
3:16
Or your book. Your book was.
3:17
I don't. I don't.
3:19
I have some person who comes after me to do podcasts.
3:21
I don't even know. OK, it's it's a mystery, but I
3:25
don't question mysteries. It happened.
3:27
This podcast agent booking person, we don't even know who
3:31
she is, reached out he. No idea who he.
3:35
Is so funny how this happens. I'm getting more of these and
3:38
there's a lot of, there's a lot of weird, weird ones that get
3:41
sent across. And I say politely, no, thank
3:42
you. But I saw your bio and I
3:45
thought, oh, I mean, I'm going to be honest.
3:47
I saw Broadway on there and I said, well, number one, yes.
3:51
And then I read your bio and I thought, incredible.
3:54
A mom who has had such a varied career, who has lived such an
3:59
incredible 86 years. Not quite 8786.
4:03
I hope I'll make it to 87. You said it's next month you
4:08
will be with thriving into your hundreds.
4:10
I know that I was saying before this that usually I do a
4:14
recording at the beginning and I or after we record, I'll do an
4:17
intro. But I, I want you to introduce
4:20
yourself. How on earth, at this stage in
4:22
your life, with all the experiences and life that you've
4:26
had, how do you introduce yourself today?
4:29
Well, I really I don't introduce myself.
4:32
People just know you. No.
4:35
But you know, I think, I don't know.
4:39
I think probably a lot of other people feel this way.
4:42
People see me in a way that I don't necessarily see myself.
4:47
So basically, you know, I'm, I, I will.
4:51
I guess I'd say I'm a working wife and mother.
4:55
I'm certainly not supporting the household.
4:59
I tend to, to, to, to go into areas that are not exactly that
5:07
income producing, at least for me they're not.
5:10
But I do what I love. I follow my passions and I, I,
5:15
I, I just, I guess I, well, I, I come by it honestly because both
5:19
my parents were adventurers. I mean, they lived into their
5:24
90s, lived, they traveled, they had interesting careers.
5:29
They they sought adventure. I mean, just for example, my
5:34
father, he was English. He went to Cambridge and then he
5:37
graduated and he went to Thailand.
5:40
In those days it was Siam for three years, which was like
5:43
taking a cargo boat and, you know, saying so long family,
5:48
maybe I'll see you. But it's, you know, that's
5:51
pretty adventuresome. He would go in the jungles and
5:54
so it was that's my father and my mother did a lot of
5:58
adventuresome things too. So I just feel like you create
6:01
your you have to create your life, I guess, for me, for
6:05
whatever reason. And again, I have to go back to
6:08
my parents. I guess my mother more than
6:10
anything. And I was one of three sisters.
6:12
If I had a brother, my life might have been quite different
6:15
because all the ambition and Dr. might have been kind of
6:19
channeled into that person, but I didn't.
6:22
I'm still waiting, You know, it's, it's like every time I
6:25
hear from 23 and our ancestry or something, I'm thinking, oh,
6:28
maybe one day I'll find I have a brother out there.
6:32
Well, that's interesting that you think that you think there
6:34
might be other now when so you said you create your life.
6:39
What is the life that you've created?
6:41
So to introduce yourself, if someone were to say tell me
6:43
about you and the life you've created, what is?
6:45
It well, you can either look at me as a scatter brain, which I
6:49
probably am, or somebody who's just had a different careers
6:53
that have worked for whatever, for whatever that period of my
6:57
life is or have not worked. And then I've done something
6:59
else because I have 5 children and I had him over a period of
7:04
14 years. So that's a large, a very long
7:07
span of parenting. And by the time my youngest was,
7:13
um, it, you know, kind of really on her own, I had elderly
7:17
parents and I was the only absorb in New York who was near
7:21
my parents. Not that my parents were
7:23
amazing. They didn't, they were very
7:25
undemanding and they had health issues.
7:28
But I mean if I stop by and said hi for half an hour they would
7:35
be grateful. I mean, it's, they were
7:36
undemanding, which was nice, but I felt enormous responsibility.
7:41
So it was, I mean, I'm, I'd see, I am scatterbrained.
7:47
So I'm kind of all over the map. But different things have been
7:49
right for me at different times. You know, in my 20s, I kind of
7:53
think of it in terms of decades for me, I think of life and
7:57
chapters. And certainly when I was young,
8:01
when I was, I'm married, I was barely 20 and I became a mother.
8:05
I turned actually 21 in the hospital and yeah, it's a long
8:10
time. Wow, different era, right?
8:14
And, and that's my, I went to, I went away to school to, to high
8:20
school and then I went to college because that's kind of
8:23
the path we took. You know, I was kind of in the
8:26
type of upbringing I had. That was kind of a normal path,
8:30
but it was really most people nobody had career.
8:34
There was really not a people didn't think of women in terms
8:38
of careers. It was really the exception.
8:41
And in fact, in my class I can it was only one person who I
8:45
really think was clear she wanted probably there were more
8:49
that I just didn't know about, but I but I mean one person be
8:53
practically became governor of Connecticut.
8:55
But that was like an accidental career because she didn't think
8:58
anybody would marry her. So she wound up going to law
9:00
school and then she wound up with a family and a very, very
9:04
good career. But it's just we didn't think
9:07
that way. So you know, I had, I got
9:10
married young, I had kids, 4 kids and a period of seven
9:14
years. Then I had a young nephew who
9:17
lived with us at the same time. I also when I was 19 and then
9:22
when I was 23 and when I was 27, I had three different bouts of
9:28
of the first time it was a very bad case of mono.
9:30
I was really in bed for quite a while for two months and then I
9:34
had hepatitis twice. So on top of, on top of being
9:40
exhausted with, you know, liver disease, I also was exhausted
9:47
taking, you know, nursing children and raising children
9:51
and running around here and there.
9:52
And it was, it was I, I don't think I've ever not been tired.
9:56
It's just. I'm tired.
9:58
All my life I've been tired. I'm still tired.
10:01
I figured the day I'll come where I'll catch up on that
10:03
sleep, but it isn't going to be for awhile.
10:05
I. Hope you say you're you say
10:07
you're tired and you're still tired and for all intents and
10:10
purposes, this could be a phase of your life where you slowed
10:13
down, but you do not strike me as somebody who has any sort of
10:17
slow What is the motivation that feels greater to you than sleep?
10:21
Getting up in the morning and working, doing things I love to
10:25
do. You know, I, I kind of recharge.
10:27
I have, I don't sleep well, I have to be honest, particularly
10:30
since, well, you know, I mean, when we talked first, I had just
10:34
fallen down backwards downstairs and I did break my back and you
10:38
know, I have to say it was the T12.
10:41
So it's just at the waist. It's not, you know, it's not a
10:44
horrible thing, but you are in pain quite a lot and paint has
10:50
slowed me down and it scared me actually, you know, and in fact,
10:55
I was with a doctor friend recently, just a couple of days
10:59
ago. She's she's a part of a writing
11:01
group too, who said about how how pain is a tires people.
11:06
And I felt that was very a relief for me to hear because it
11:10
just worries me. I can be sitting at the computer
11:12
and practically falling asleep and I was never like that.
11:16
So I, I don't think it's going to be, I think, I don't think
11:19
it's age. I do think it's just the pain
11:23
that I've gone through because it's been uncomfortable, but I,
11:27
I have, I have, I just inherited him.
11:31
One of my sisters did as well. Kind of an energy, I think from
11:34
my mother, which I, I, you know, it's not, it's just happened.
11:39
It's not any great attribute of mine.
11:43
It's just something I have. I wake up and I look first what
11:47
can be interest me, and so I kind of recharge and I just try
11:51
not to think about the first few minutes.
11:54
Getting up is always hard for me, and on top of everything
11:58
else in this last, it's been a weird two months.
12:01
Well, yes. I had a wonderful cat.
12:04
I have two cats and I and I have two dogs.
12:08
My dogs are outdoor dogs and one of my dogs killed one of my cats
12:13
and this cat was such a wonderful no.
12:17
Yeah, we hear about this happening.
12:19
Oh, it's was awful. Well, it wasn't in the house
12:21
that my cat never goes outside and he had somebody had let him
12:25
outside by accident and he had gotten it.
12:28
And that cat was like in the morning.
12:30
I lied down. He would just lie against me and
12:33
it would, you know, for like 5-10 minutes.
12:36
You know, a lot of people talk about how they meditate when
12:38
they get up or they do something that was like charging my
12:42
batteries. It felt so good.
12:44
We just and and so I miss my cat.
12:49
I'm sorry but you know, this was like 2 weeks ago.
12:53
Oh my gosh, what a couple of months you've had?
12:55
No kidding. No, yeah, it wasn't.
12:58
It's been, it's been other things too.
13:00
It's been a weird couple of months, but we're moving on and
13:04
I'm OK. But anyway, the energy just, I
13:07
just, I don't know, I'm lucky and I have curiosity and I have
13:13
really, unless I'm falling down staircases, I have good health.
13:18
Goodness. Well, you got on the call with
13:21
me. You said I'm so sorry.
13:23
I feel a bit frazzled. I said, oh, don't worry, take
13:25
your time. He said I've just fallen down
13:27
the stairs. It was the minute after minute
13:31
after you fell down the stairs. You got on the call.
13:33
I said, Jennifer, we don't know each other, but I feel like you
13:35
should just take a minute. Why don't we reschedule?
13:37
You said no, no, I'm excited for this.
13:39
Let's chat. And we had a beautiful, probably
13:42
45 minute conversation and you have broken your back.
13:46
Well, you know what? It was like I fell down about
13:49
six or seven steps and I was opening a gate.
13:52
It was a big heavy gate and it came off.
13:54
And so I went backwards with it and I lay there stunned and I
14:01
called like hell, which I don't think I've ever said in my life
14:05
because I don't like being helped.
14:07
And nobody heard me. And I figured, OK, that's it.
14:12
I got a, I got an interview coming up.
14:15
And, you know, I just got up. I was, I wasn't paralyzed.
14:20
I I could walk and I honestly didn't actually get an MRI for
14:25
five weeks when I was still in pain.
14:28
I just went about my life and I haven't really changed it except
14:31
that I've slowed down just because the pain has bothered
14:34
me. Yeah, But, you know, and two
14:36
days later, I went to Philadelphia on a train with a
14:39
bunch of people, friends, and we went to, to see an exhibit, A
14:43
play exhibit at a museum there, walking all over the place.
14:46
Somebody was reminding me the other day.
14:48
I was saying like, oh, no, we don't need an Uber, we can walk.
14:52
And I was, you know, and I was, I was in pain.
14:55
Oh my gosh. Well, I think there's going to
14:57
be a through line here in our conversation today around
15:00
resilience and really having that bigger purpose and sense of
15:05
passion really drive you through because I think I can.
15:07
Do it you know, I really wanted to go, you know that it does.
15:11
It gets it over. It predominates other things.
15:16
And I felt like, oh, I'm such a baby.
15:18
I'm not my, you know, I'm OK I and I'm not a drinker.
15:22
I mean, that would have helped, but I'm not.
15:26
And when they finally gave me like, you know, oxycodone and
15:30
stuff, I took it and I threw the bottle out.
15:33
I honestly did. I just cannot stand being, you
15:37
know, half there. It was good for you, Jennifer.
15:41
Take us back. Take us back to your 30s and you
15:44
had four kids at home. The women's movement was rising.
15:47
What was going through your mind?
15:49
I mean, I even want to get into your childhood, but we don't
15:51
have that time for that today. But take this seems like a
15:54
really the first of many extremely pivotal points in your
15:58
life, in your career. Take us back to that.
16:02
The fifth child, but I was 34 but in my 30s when I returned 30
16:09
that I if I I may have told you this story, and it's probably
16:12
not that interesting, but it was the cusp of the women's movement
16:17
and I was, you know, doing everything I could.
16:20
I had dropped out of corner when I was young, you know, thinking
16:23
about the world was waiting for me, which it wasn't.
16:26
And, you know, I was dying to work.
16:28
I always wanted to work. I mean, even as a kid in
16:31
summers, I always, I used to run a bookstore and I just loved it.
16:35
And I've just always had this drive.
16:37
So, um, you know, I was busy, I had my kids, they were in
16:41
different schools because they're all different ages.
16:44
I was, you know, the PTA board and doing different things, but
16:48
I kind of, you know, I kind of wanted to buy into it.
16:52
And, and my husband's Iranian and he grew up there until he
16:57
was 14. So he was very much part of that
17:00
culture. And it was a kind of a, it
17:03
wasn't kind of a stroke. It was, it was a struggle, but I
17:09
just, I didn't, you know, and I didn't know what to do.
17:13
I tried things. I tried writing for a local
17:15
magazine and, and my, you know, my, my youngest 2 at that time
17:20
were like in nursery school and they're 13 months apart.
17:24
So they were both in the same nursery school.
17:26
And I would sit down and start writing and then my little
17:30
computer. And it wasn't that something
17:32
would go off and I'd have to go pick them up.
17:34
And it was so frustrating. I could not, I couldn't work
17:38
that way. And it was so piece meal.
17:41
I thought, OK, this isn't going to work.
17:44
I tried. We had gone to Iran for a
17:46
summer. I tried an import export
17:49
business. Hated it.
17:52
You know, I kept trying things because I didn't have my degree.
17:56
My mother had a cooking school and I I was being drawn into to
18:00
kind of a field of cooking in some ways and asked to give an I
18:05
had done a couple of things for the local Scarsdale adult
18:11
education thing and I was they had built a new mall at that
18:16
time and I think they had it Burgdoff opening.
18:18
They asked me to give a demonstration and you know, that
18:21
was kind of the make it or break it moment.
18:24
And I thought, Nah, this isn't the field I want.
18:26
I cook for a large family every night.
18:30
I don't like, I'm sick of this. And said, no, I don't need it as
18:33
a career. You know, I just, that wasn't
18:37
going to be it. And so finally I wound up and I
18:40
was all along the way, I was taking courses here and there.
18:45
And, you know, at 30, at 30, I did, I was, I got depressed.
18:49
I just couldn't figure out what it was going to be.
18:51
And, and finally, I wound up deciding to try to get my
18:58
degree, my undergraduate degree, which I would have never been
19:02
able to do if I weren't in an alternative program.
19:05
And those programs are some of them, if they're really, you
19:08
know, good quality ones can be amazing because that was the
19:11
only opportunity I. Had they do by alternative?
19:14
Sorry. I mean, it wasn't, I wasn't a
19:16
full time student and going to college, you know, every day the
19:19
way other students is. I was taking different courses.
19:22
I had a mentor. I was doing courses through the
19:25
mentor. They accepted certain credits
19:27
for my past credits, like I taken local, I took courses at
19:31
Manhattanville, SUNY Purchase, I took courses in different
19:35
places, OK, they accepted those credits.
19:38
So by the time they had come and some of them they gave you for
19:41
life experiences like I had learned to speak Farsi, they
19:44
gave me like 3 credits for that and I was thinking of everything
19:49
I could think of to give me 3 credits.
19:51
Good for you. And, and so I, you know, and so
19:54
the, actually getting a degree wasn't like climbing Mount
19:57
Everest. It was doable.
19:59
And so I did it. And I finally, the year I had
20:02
Cara, my youngest, I was 34. And that's about the same time I
20:07
finally got my undergraduate degree.
20:10
And then I felt like, you know, I'm, I wanted to keep, I wanted
20:16
to work. And so I.
20:18
Sort of working and I also with my kids, I wanted to be
20:21
everything to them. My mother was always, I felt
20:24
preoccupied with things she was doing and I just wanted to be
20:29
everything to my children. And you know, it was, I was like
20:32
Mission Impossible. It really was.
20:35
But I did my best and so I figured, OK, I'll work part time
20:39
in a business of my husbands. So I go into his business and I
20:42
don't know what the hell I'm going to be doing there, you
20:44
know, he said, OK, fine, we'll find something for you.
20:47
He stuck me in an office and then what?
20:49
Well, anyway, I created a position for myself It.
20:53
Wasn't with the business. It was a health club business
20:56
and at that time, this was in the 70s, they didn't have a no,
21:02
it wasn't in this Yes, it was in the 70s.
21:05
They didn't have a public relations department.
21:09
So I created a public relations department and I, it was really
21:13
interesting. I mean, cause I'm not knowing
21:16
what I was doing. I would do a lot of things.
21:18
I mean, like I had these towels printed with certain things on
21:22
it and I'd send it to all the beauty editors at magazines.
21:25
It was very different in those days.
21:26
And I got to them and I, I really, I mean, I actually was
21:30
pretty good at it just because, really because of ignorance,
21:34
because if I'd known more, but I would think of, OK, what's a
21:37
creative way to get it there? All right, I'll have somebody
21:39
come with the basket with balloons all over.
21:41
I don't know, I just, I would try to think of different ways
21:44
to attract attention. So I mean, I liked it, but the
21:47
more involved I got, the more my husband and I, to be honest,
21:51
we're butting heads. And so I stopped after a couple
21:55
of years. I figured this is silly.
21:56
I'll find, you know, I'll find something else.
21:59
I can do it. And and I wound up going to
22:01
getting a masters degree and that again, was another
22:05
alternative program that worked with my life.
22:07
I mean, everything, to be honest with you.
22:09
And I guess a lot of women couldn't make that choice today,
22:13
but everything to me had to fit within the realm of me as a mom.
22:18
I had so many kids, I had a big responsibility to them.
22:21
And so I got involved in a program that was a full day
22:24
program once a week. And I love that program.
22:27
I mean, I was I had made some good friends.
22:29
We were all there together for the same period of time for
22:32
those couple of years. And I only took one course
22:35
actually on campus, which was research.
22:38
And the rest of it I all did in this, this other place where we
22:42
did it. And it was, it was, I came out
22:45
of it with a masters, which wasn't a great masters for what
22:48
I ultimately wound up doing because afterwards I then got a
22:52
clinical degree in family therapy and I was a family
22:56
therapist. Anyway.
22:57
I've, I've always just kind of I've, I don't know how to
23:01
describe it, but because I haven't, I, because I didn't
23:04
have a good underlying degree and I wound up with the family
23:09
institute in Westchester where I was, I had a practice there and
23:13
I wound up on the faculty, but I did the degree I had.
23:16
People were not allowed into the training program with my degree.
23:20
I had a low level degree. It was just a masters in
23:23
counseling where everybody else was an MSW or PhD.
23:27
So then I took training and divorce mediation.
23:30
So I'd have another skill that I could bring.
23:32
So it's all about kind of making the boast out of what what I
23:38
could do and what would work within my life.
23:41
Wow, and I have to ask, I feel like I'm I'm allowed to ask you
23:45
this and you won't be offended. But when you say, you know,
23:48
maybe most women wouldn't do, wouldn't kind of be considering
23:51
like, what could I do that kind of fits with the role of
23:54
parenting? What did you mean by that?
23:57
Maybe that sounded offensive. No, no, because I think, I think
24:01
that today people you make, you know, you may go, you get your
24:04
education or whatever and then you have a career in whatever it
24:09
is and you fit, you know, you fit a family in with it, but you
24:14
have a you have a career track. Mine was like right, constantly
24:18
kind of shifting in order to kind of accommodate to my
24:21
family, which and I had the ability to do that because I
24:26
didn't have to be self supporting.
24:28
Right. That's a huge other piece of
24:31
this whole conversation. If you're self supporting, you
24:35
don't have the kind of options I had.
24:37
No. So I mean, with everything I've
24:39
done, when I and I walked away from being a divorce mediator
24:44
and I was head of the program again that the family institute
24:49
and they had, I had the woman who was head of the institute
24:53
had mentored me and boy, she must have wanted to kill me.
24:56
But I, I mean, you know, I not all by the decisions, I mean in
25:02
fact meant a lot of them have been just kind of instinctual.
25:05
They haven't been really well thought through.
25:08
So I'm probably a terrible role model for most people listening
25:12
because I don't, you know, it's not like I had a map of what I
25:16
wanted to do and where I wanted to go.
25:18
It's all just kind of been, I can't say random, but what seems
25:24
right at that time. Well, you know what, Jennifer,
25:28
you actually bring up one of my, I love this.
25:30
You bring up one of my favorite topics, which is, if you'll
25:33
remember, I'm a career coach and I specialize in working with
25:36
parents, right? And I can't tell you the the
25:39
number of times that I have a person sitting with me, you
25:42
know, virtually or in person, saying I have spent my whole
25:46
life building towards this track that you were talking about,
25:49
this career track, this career path.
25:52
And now I'm here and I'm on it. And now I have kids and I'm
25:55
realizing I love these kids way more than I'm gonna.
25:58
I always pick on lawyers, doctors, whomever I PR
26:01
specialist, they've got these jobs.
26:04
And the way in which they were working in these jobs before
26:06
having kids no longer fits. And they're like, I don't care
26:10
about this job anymore, but this is all I've ever done.
26:14
And so they're sitting there 35 years old, say, and they feel
26:18
terrified versus you who have always pivoted always or you,
26:23
you didn't one track your, I mean, you could have at one
26:25
point at the family therapy point in your career, you could
26:27
have said, well, this is it. This is all I'm really trained
26:30
in. I gave up a profession.
26:34
You know, there are many ways I you know, I felt like I walked
26:37
away from something I was that I liked and I was getting better
26:40
at. But, you know, I don't think
26:42
it's only a women's issue because I think about one of my,
26:46
I have a son-in-law who had a very good, a law degree from a
26:50
very good college. I'm not gonna say which one.
26:54
And he, he was working at Skadden Arps.
26:57
And, and you know, when he was dating my daughter, there were
27:01
weekends when he would be working like 20 hours when there
27:04
was like a merger going on or something.
27:07
And after they got married and they had kid, he just this isn't
27:11
a life, you know, and he was able to, you know, to to find
27:17
something else. But it's not a life.
27:19
And it also reminds me of a woman I know who was the in fact
27:24
she was written about in the Law Journal was I think the first
27:27
women woman in New York who became a partner.
27:31
We're working part time now. Part time for a lawyer means
27:35
like a 4050 hour week. I know.
27:38
Yeah, but she figured she had two kids and she hadn't planned
27:41
to have children. But she when she had those kids,
27:43
she was an amazing mother, much better than, I think, a lot of
27:47
mothers who don't have careers because she was so focused on
27:51
her kids when she wasn't working.
27:54
I mean, she was either working or she was a mother.
27:57
And when she wasn't working, you know, so those two or three days
28:01
a week when she was working, she would work probably, you know,
28:05
endless hours. But then she put it away and I,
28:09
I was really impressed by that. And she did make partner and it
28:13
was, you know, I think I, I, I think if you're somebody, I
28:19
don't know, it's if it's only about having children, but you
28:23
know, different things can change your life.
28:25
You can, you can meet, have a partner, you know, with a
28:28
different kind of life and make other, you know, reasons to
28:31
change what you're doing. But I think if you all your
28:34
life, you just you never reexamine your life, you know,
28:38
sometimes what you're doing doesn't doesn't fit anymore.
28:43
I mean, let me get yeah. I mean, I know your favorite
28:45
subjects. Theatre.
28:46
Well, that was more like in my 50s where I just kind of walked
28:50
away from being a family therapist and divorce mediator.
28:55
And I got into theatre producing and I, I mean, I felt so
29:00
inauthentic for so long because, you know, I had, I had no, you
29:05
know, I hadn't paid my dues, let's put it that way.
29:09
And I didn't know enough about it.
29:11
And it was like a romantic fantasy.
29:14
In fact, I just heard that the guy who got me in initially died
29:17
today. I just might.
29:19
My daughter just sent me a note saying that.
29:21
I'm sorry. Yeah, well, I mean, Phillip is,
29:23
he's really old, but his father was my father's law partner, and
29:27
that's kind of how this whole thing happened in a way.
29:30
Wow. But but what's my point?
29:35
Producing. Getting into producing, you felt
29:37
like you. Said, well, I had no business,
29:39
you know, I had like I had no idea what it entailed.
29:43
You know, you're going to you take it many shows.
29:46
Let's just say you have a Broadway bound show.
29:48
It may be out of town for six weeks, for eight weeks,
29:51
whatever. If you're really if you have a,
29:54
you know, depending on your level of involvement, you may
29:57
have to be there for a lot of the previews.
29:59
You may be out of town a lot, you know, and I was juggling at
30:03
that point. My youngest was the only one
30:05
home, but she was struggling in some ways.
30:07
And I mean, I lived with, I lived with so much guilt that I
30:13
just, and I, I finally just kind of decided I gotta lower my
30:19
ambition and lower my drive. In the on the career side,
30:25
because your was your work. You work was taking you out of
30:27
town, you meant? Yeah.
30:28
I mean, it's not like I would never yes, but it was it was
30:31
just too much of a conflict. I just had to just, I just had
30:38
to, to change my, you know, I know on so many people I know,
30:42
either they didn't have kids or their, they had, they weren't
30:45
married or they had spouses who would go to everything with
30:50
them. My husband had no interest in
30:52
what I did, so he wouldn't come to anything.
30:54
And you know, I would wind up feeling bad all the time.
30:57
You know, I just, it wasn't worth it because as I became
31:01
less engaged in a way, the more I learned the business, the more
31:05
I knew about it, the more the business was changing.
31:11
And it's, I mean, today it's insane.
31:14
I mean, you wanna Broadway musical can cost between 20 and
31:18
$30 million. And if it's not a mega hit, it's
31:22
going to lose all its money probably.
31:24
And straight play, unless you have some real, real marketable
31:28
stars in it is going to cost six, $7,000,000.
31:32
It's almost, it's really hard to raise money.
31:35
And so they have like 30-40 producers on shows.
31:38
It's crazy. There's you don't have
31:40
involvement it, it's just, it's not the same business that it
31:44
was when I went into it. And so I got more involved in
31:48
writing and doing different things and, and, and now that's
31:52
kind of where my I'm much more involved in doing things that
31:55
are creative. Wow.
31:57
And I meant one more stage. Yeah.
32:00
May not be over. Tell me about the different
32:04
stages and how did you know at each of these stages, what were
32:07
the signs and symptoms that it was time to read?
32:09
You said the word reevaluate, and how did you know what each
32:12
of those stages when it was time to reevaluate?
32:15
Well, if I go back to when I first started working and I was
32:18
working in my husband's business, it was really because
32:21
it was creating tension. You know, it was like my husband
32:25
would say, well, either run it or back off.
32:28
And I and I wasn't in a position to run it.
32:30
So not, I mean, he had several businesses, but it just didn't
32:34
make sense. So that was it's all been things
32:38
like that when I as a as a family therapist, part of part
32:46
of I guess what motivated by this.
32:52
I mean, it wasn't well thought through.
32:54
I mean, I'm being very honest with you.
32:55
It's not like it was a well, this is what I should be doing.
32:59
But what part of me felt like if I, you know, as I get more
33:03
involved in this field and particularly in divorce
33:06
mediation, where I was involved in, you know, forming a council
33:10
in New York. And, and I was thinking about,
33:14
or I think that I was being quartered a little bit for a
33:16
national thing. And I felt like I needed to, I
33:21
needed to probably have more skills and I in, in terms of as
33:24
a therapist, I didn't have a degree that it was just a
33:28
masters degree. It didn't allow me to get third
33:31
party reimbursement. So if anybody were to see me,
33:35
they couldn't get reimbursement. Now that I mean, that's just, it
33:39
didn't make sense. After a while, I realized I
33:41
either got to go back to school or I have to really reevaluate
33:46
this because and, and because most of my lot of my higher
33:50
education was done as an adult and with kids, I kind of, I, I
33:56
wasn't that ready to go back. And so that, that was partly
34:01
what motivated me. And then then in terms of
34:03
jumping into theatre, it was just an opportunity that came
34:07
and it was like, I don't know, it was my youngest child was
34:11
going to be going to school in Manhattan and we got an
34:15
apartment for a couple of years. And you know, to me in New York
34:20
City, I still have, well, I don't still have a Stardust in
34:24
my eyes about the city because since COVID, it's not the same
34:28
for me. But I, I thought, my God, this
34:36
is this is my chance. This is something, it was like
34:39
the the two things converged. Karen going to this school, us
34:43
being in the city and this opportunity coming up to get
34:46
involved with the show. And I just, you know, I just,
34:50
you know, with, you know, when you jump in the lake and you
34:53
hold your nose and jump, that's kind of what I did.
34:56
Or you could say the suicide jump off a bridge.
34:58
I don't know. I I'm not somebody who looks
35:01
back much. I don't believe in regret, you
35:04
know, I believe in making things work.
35:07
So I stuck with it. And what would you tell the
35:11
person who who's listening? You know, this, this audience is
35:15
their young parents. They've have maybe a couple of
35:18
kids. They've probably been a high
35:20
achiever, high performer in their careers previously, maybe
35:22
still are figuring out how to make it all work.
35:26
And maybe they fantasize, like I think about someone listening
35:28
and in their ears right now and they're hearing your story of
35:31
getting to try getting to try different things in their
35:35
career. And you say, I don't want to
35:37
live with regret. You know, what advice would you
35:39
give to that person who's listening and thinking, man, I
35:41
just want to try something else? You see, I don't think, I don't
35:46
think that failing is the worst thing that can happen.
35:50
I think the first, the worst thing is wanting something and
35:54
not doing it. I'm I'm not afraid to risk
35:56
making a mistake, being wrong. I don't have a, you know, I, I
36:01
in my while this dreams, I never thought I would write a novel.
36:07
And now I'm writing my second novel and, you know, I had to
36:11
feel like I had ability. I mean, I'm not, I mean, I just,
36:15
it's very hard to fill 300 pages of a book.
36:19
I mean, it's not an easy thing to do, but I learned a lot.
36:24
I think, you know, trying things and what's the worst that can
36:27
happen? What's the worst?
36:28
You know, to me, it's about when I write the first book is called
36:32
Alphabet and it's when I wrote it, when it was finished and it,
36:36
you know, I, I got it, got a cover I loved and it's often
36:41
it's an Amazon or wherever. And you know, I would be, I
36:46
would be, it's never going to be a best seller.
36:48
It's not like that's even my dream.
36:51
It's just that I did it. Not, not everybody can afford to
36:55
feel that way about something, but I but I to me, it's the act
37:00
of doing something. One thing I've been doing lately
37:03
and it's, it's kind of crazy, but, and it certainly hasn't
37:07
helped my back lately, but I there's some art projects I've
37:12
taken on that I'm having so much fun with.
37:15
And the the latest one I did it practically, it was really bad
37:20
for my back. There was a lot of bending and
37:22
it was pretty stupid. But when I decided I wanted to
37:26
do something, by God, I'd do it. And I've been creating these.
37:31
I can't even explain them to you.
37:34
I start with a mannequin. It could be a child size, it
37:37
could be a sleeping baby, it could be a 6 foot tall figure
37:41
and I create something out of it.
37:43
I create, I did one that's like Jessica Rabbit and it, you know,
37:49
and the part of me is thinking, well, wait a minute, maybe,
37:51
maybe that maybe there's another career in me, you know?
37:56
So I just feel like there's always, there's just life is
38:01
such an adventure. There's always something more.
38:04
There's always things I want to do.
38:05
And then I think, oh God, I'm too old to do that, you know?
38:09
But I like you. What do you think is the risk of
38:12
not of not taking like you said, the the wanting is the hard
38:16
part, which I have never thought about it that way.
38:18
That is so that's so true for me.
38:20
I think that's so true probably for so many people listening.
38:23
If you think back in like say, say you never changed.
38:28
Say you say you stayed at your husband's company, or you stayed
38:30
in the mediation or you stayed in the counseling practice.
38:35
I mean, if you were to kind of hypothesize how the rest of your
38:38
life would have gone, would you always be wondering like, what
38:42
if I had taken that chance to leave?
38:44
What I what if you know, what do you think there would have been
38:46
suffering within you to not take some of those risks?
38:51
Well, I mean, I don't think when I jumped into theatre was a good
38:56
move on my. It's the only thing I've done
38:57
where I've really felt like it. It was not a good move on my
39:02
part. It wasn't good for my family.
39:04
It wasn't good for me and my husband.
39:07
I just really suffered with that one.
39:09
But, um, I don't know how to answer your question because
39:15
it's so hypothetical. I am I, you know, it's funny.
39:19
A friend of mine who I went to Graduate School with had made
39:22
it. She'd made an observation about
39:24
me many years ago, and I think she was right.
39:27
And that is that when I'm doing something, when it's like
39:31
everything I do is almost has a project aspect to it.
39:35
You know, when I reach a certain point in it, I start to get
39:39
restless and that's when I move on.
39:43
And I must say there are some. I just feel like there's so many
39:46
things that person can do in life and you know, there's
39:50
limitations that that can be financial, it can be, it can be
39:54
a millionth, it can be age. I mean what I I mean, I still
39:59
think about things I might like to have done that I can't do.
40:04
So I just, I think it has to do with the nature of the person
40:08
more than anything else. Not necessarily.
40:11
I don't think there's anything bad about spending your life
40:14
doing one thing. I don't think it's.
40:16
I don't think it's a negative. It just depends upon whether
40:20
that works for you personally. Or are you the person?
40:23
Yeah, it's true, because you think about the person that you
40:25
might know, who you know for years talks about this dream
40:30
they have, but then they never make that move to see that dream
40:34
through. Well, there are people who say
40:37
that to me and, you know, I wish I could do what you do.
40:40
And it's frustrating to me. Like give it a try.
40:46
And you're right, you called out the constraints.
40:48
We're not talking about the constraints.
40:49
We're not talking about the person who truly has yes, it
40:52
does not have the means. We're talking about the people
40:54
that have. There's maybe something strange,
40:57
but come on, you know there. But there's a, there's something
41:00
it's, it's within the realm of possible, something you.
41:03
Yes, yes. So you've spoken a lot about,
41:07
you know, it's kind of throughout your story, you've
41:09
woven in the moments where you maybe felt that guilt and that
41:12
that pressure of being a parent and feeling like, I don't know
41:15
if this is, I don't know if this is working.
41:17
I don't know if this is a good decision or a good moment for my
41:20
family. How did you, you know, maybe not
41:22
in those big those junctures or those pivot points because you
41:25
ended up doing something about it, she said.
41:26
OK, theatre is no longer working for.
41:28
Me and I kept doing it. I just, you know, I just
41:31
changed, had to shift my head. Hmm.
41:34
How did you do that, You know, throughout the rest of your
41:36
career while you had little ones that you're wearing and you're
41:39
wanting to navigate the pursuits of, you know, your passions and
41:42
your ambitions and your career. How did you balance that?
41:46
You know, you talked about the presence versus perfection and
41:49
like, how do you how, what's my question?
41:51
My question is, how did you maintain being present when you
41:56
were with your kids and then feel, you know, those times
42:00
where you felt really good about going to work because you had.
42:03
Well, you're making an assumption.
42:05
I'm I'm assuming. That I'm always present with my
42:08
kids. I'm, I'm just hoping, I'm hoping
42:11
you've got the silver bullet things.
42:14
Oh yeah, So good to see you today.
42:16
Yeah, I'm bad. I don't know.
42:23
I, you know, I had five children as well.
42:26
You have two, right? I have two, I have three sisters
42:30
and then I have two, two kids myself.
42:31
So I came from a big larger family.
42:34
Yeah, well, you know, I never knew these things at the time.
42:39
I mean, these are things I learned afterwards.
42:41
For example, my my oldest is a daughter and then she had three
42:45
brothers. God help her.
42:47
And then seven years later, a sister and I would.
42:52
For example, when Kim was like in fifth grade, I let a Girl
42:55
Scout troop with a friend of mine and we had a lot of fun.
42:58
But like I would do, we did an overnight, like at the Girl
43:02
Scout house. I was doing it for my daughter.
43:05
I should have just gone with her and done it.
43:07
But one of my little kids wanted to come too.
43:10
And so I brought him along. And, you know, these, these,
43:13
these were mistakes. I think after the fact, you
43:17
know, rather than being focused on that child at that time, I
43:22
had, you know, there was a lot going on.
43:24
It's very hard. I mean, my kids, I mean, we had,
43:28
we had a pretty crazy house. We still.
43:31
Do. You know what?
43:33
I've a lot of grandchildren. And on Sundays very often.
43:37
Well, not as much anymore because Oh my God my, my poor
43:41
daughter. My youngest daughter.
43:43
Her daughter is going her oldest daughter, not her oldest
43:47
daughter, her older. Daughter is going off to.
43:51
College tomorrow. I feel so bad for her because
43:54
it's hard, but some, I mean the kids, we only have two little
43:59
ones in the family. But I also have a great
44:01
grandchild now who's adorable. But you know, I'm not I, I
44:07
don't. I probably could have been more
44:09
focused on them than I was. I guess I just.
44:13
I thought, you know, I said to. My son the other day and Jared
44:17
was I a good. Mother he had brought.
44:19
A whole bunch of pictures to the house and we were looking at the
44:21
pictures and I see myself with these kids and I'm always
44:24
smiling and I'm hugging somebody or somebody's climbing on me and
44:28
I'm looking at myself and I'm and I'm just trying to remember,
44:32
was I present? Was I there?
44:34
You know, it's I'm not good at remembering these things.
44:38
And I just said, I really, I mean, I meant it in all
44:41
sincerity. So he, of course, said what I
44:43
needed to hear. But I really hope so, because
44:46
when there's a lot of kids, you don't give them the same focus
44:49
as you do when you have less. Yeah.
44:52
I mean with all my grandchildren, because I have so
44:55
many, you know, I see them, you know, and I don't do as much 1
44:58
to 1. And so I would like to do.
45:03
I get that. I mean, I only have two and I
45:05
even feel I took my little guy, just the two of us because you
45:09
know, the other the other day we just went and had a little date
45:12
in the morning because I thought, you know, you've you've
45:14
always been in a situation where you've never really had myself
45:17
and my husband to yourself. Like you never really got that,
45:20
never really gets that. And so I kind of had that moment
45:22
myself or I said, OK, I'm going to, let's just go to this little
45:25
playground, just the two of us. And it was really nice and I had
45:29
to be in that moment, the work that I'm doing right now with my
45:34
therapist, etcetera. I was like not making that then
45:38
turn into this guilt thing where I'm like, I'm doing this because
45:40
I'm feeling guilty about this thing.
45:42
But just know I was craving some time with him and not making
45:46
meaning out of it, right? Versus and and sounds like
45:49
that's what you're kind of saying there is meaning.
45:52
Yes, just. Meaning there is meaning to it.
45:55
Yeah, it's. Very nice that that.
45:56
Individual time, but I'm, you know, I might, I'm often scared.
46:01
I, I keep talking about this and I, I guess I should stop because
46:06
I don't know that I'm a scatterbrain, but my, my, I'm in
46:10
a lot of directions often and, and I guess it's apparent, maybe
46:18
it's. You know, I have to really tell.
46:19
My I have to like save myself, but well, I really pretty much
46:23
now almost religiously devote weekends, not don't work on
46:28
weekends. I don't write on weekends, even
46:31
when I'm dying too. I don't.
46:34
And Sundays when the kids are come over or whatever, you know,
46:36
I'm, I'm just there with them. And but it's almost like I have
46:40
to tell myself. I think that's a.
46:47
That's a facet of being a. Passionate person, that's what I
46:51
see. Multi passionate.
46:52
You're a multi passionate person.
46:55
Well, I'm lucky that way. Yeah, I mean, I'm just.
46:59
Lucky that way. I guess you know, I just.
47:05
I feel like I am innately a happy.
47:07
Person. I don't know if that where that
47:10
fits into it, but I, I just, I don't, I live in the present.
47:16
I live so much in the present rather that's it's not a good or
47:19
bad thing. It's I think it's neurological,
47:23
but I. Just I and.
47:25
There's just so many things in life to be enjoyed and that's
47:28
how I feel Greedy. Because there are so many things
47:33
to enjoy. There are.
47:37
It's so beautiful and I wonder, do you do you attribute, what do
47:40
you attribute that happiness to? I think I'm born with it.
47:46
I, I know that whatever spirit I have might do it yourself.
47:49
Or I mean, honest to God, I'm just remembering when my
47:52
parents, they gone away for a weekend or something when I was
47:56
about 5. And my older sister Sue is like
47:59
almost six years older than I am.
48:01
And so when I was five, I was probably had like a tricycle or
48:05
something. And Sue had a, you know, regular
48:08
bike. And when they came back, I said,
48:10
look, look, look. And I had taught myself how to
48:13
ride her bike. Yeah.
48:14
I couldn't sit on the seat or anything.
48:16
I was just peddling away. And that's kind of the story of
48:19
my life. I mean, I've always just taught
48:22
myself to do things. It's like it's, it's kind of a
48:25
myopia on my part because there's so many.
48:28
You can be so much better at things if you allow yourself to
48:31
learn from somebody who who can teach you.
48:33
But I'm just kind of a it's just the way I am.
48:37
And and I just think that whatever, you know, we all have
48:41
our nature that we're born with. I mean the nature nurture thing.
48:45
I, I, and you know, this reminds me, and this is, there was a
48:53
book that GAIL Sheehy wrote, I mean a very, very long time ago,
48:57
maybe 40-50 years ago. And it was about she had gone to
49:01
Asia, I think it was Cambodia, and she wound up adopting a
49:05
child, but she was but it was about these St. kids and people
49:09
who survive and studying who survives and who doesn't.
49:13
Wow. And there are kids with amazing,
49:15
you know, they're, we're, we're born.
49:18
Some people have these survival skills, this kind of
49:22
independence or whatever you call it, and they just make
49:26
things work for themselves. And other people are easily
49:29
defeated in life. And I just think we're born with
49:32
that. Hmm.
49:33
And then you can, you know, and. Then of course your.
49:35
Environment can alter that having.
49:39
Five children and seeing. How they were each born with a
49:42
set of gifts or a certain nature.
49:45
How did you take the nurture portion into your own hands?
49:49
Like, what were the values that you felt like really paid off
49:52
raising your children? Well, of course, children.
49:56
Really. Learn not by what you say, but
49:58
by example. And, you know, I just think if
50:01
you live your life, you treat people nicely, you know, you're
50:06
a good human being. You have respect for other
50:08
people. They learn from that.
50:11
I don't know that I, you know, said you gotta do well.
50:13
I probably did. I tried to teach some table
50:16
manners, but I wasn't very successful.
50:18
But neither, neither were my parents with me.
50:23
I don't know, I just. You know and you know.
50:25
Ethics and what's right And you know, one of the things that I
50:29
think I got from my parents, which is funny, I mean, and it
50:32
really is nothing they ever taught us, but was they had a
50:36
very different group of friends for most of the people in our
50:39
community. They were much, you know, more
50:41
artistic people and different backgrounds.
50:43
And I think with my kids, I've always, I, I guess for me, and
50:49
some of it has been, some of it has been things where I've
50:52
really slammed them if they've said things that I don't like or
50:55
think are inappropriate. I'm pretty, I'm pretty.
50:57
I can be very tough. Believe it.
50:59
Well, I, I don't know why I say believe it or not.
51:01
I don't know if you can see that side of me.
51:05
But I can be, you know, if I hear them make.
51:07
Some kind of a racial slur or they're about, I don't know,
51:10
whatever it is. Well, I just ran into them.
51:14
And I mean, they certainly know. They they all think I'm a
51:19
communist. Actually.
51:20
It's really funny. OK.
51:25
I didn't see that coming. I didn't know that.
51:28
Among so seldom far too liberal. For any of them but.
51:33
But that's another conversation I mean, I have.
51:35
Very I I. Have maintained in a world
51:39
that's is a little different from the way I was grew up, the
51:42
values I grew up with, and I've done my best to kind of get that
51:48
across and to to different degrees of success.
51:53
I love that. But they're all good kids.
51:56
My kids are all great. I can only imagine.
51:59
Oh my. Gosh, great, great
52:00
grandchildren. How, how lucky are you?
52:02
That is so cool. That is so cool.
52:05
OK, this is my final. Question for, you know, Well,
52:10
you know, then I want to ask you one more question actually, but
52:12
many listeners, I wrote this one down because I think this one is
52:15
important. There's many listeners who are
52:17
very worried about figuring it all out, whether that's career,
52:21
parenting, the combination of the two, health, whatever.
52:25
Like there seems to be this deadline of 40.
52:28
I want to be in the best shape of my life by 40.
52:30
I want to have my career figured out.
52:31
I want to be making the most money I'm making by 40 or
52:34
something to that effect. What do you what would you say
52:37
to those people listening? Good luck.
52:43
Got. I mean, I wanted to lose weight.
52:47
Before my grandson's wedding, did I?
52:50
No, I got another one coming up. Have I lost weight?
52:54
No, I don't know. I feel like it's very arbitrary.
52:58
There's something of, I don't know, you take your temperature
53:00
as you go along and you readjusted and some things that
53:05
may look at 25 like, Oh my God, that's what I, that's kind of
53:09
really what I got to do at 40. At 40, that may not be what
53:12
matters to you, you know. I like that, I think it all.
53:17
Puts a lot of pressure on people to have those types of
53:20
aspirations, yeah. I like that temperature track.
53:25
Along the way, because it's true the person who is gung ho and
53:28
the legal world at 25, like we were talking about before, like
53:31
your son-in-law and then you know, you get to 40 and you got
53:34
you might he looked around and he sounded like he was like, OK,
53:38
different. Maybe he would have wanted to
53:39
be, you know, an equity partner by 40 or have these crazy
53:42
aspirations about 15 years later.
53:44
You get to that point and you're like, no, this is this doesn't
53:47
very successful, but he uses his.
53:49
Law degree differently, as do many, many people who are
53:52
lawyers. We want to be partners and
53:54
realize the cost. The cost of being a partner.
53:57
Yeah, it's kind of insane. Yeah.
54:00
Yeah. So it's quality.
54:01
Of life and I do think. That COVID has changed people a
54:04
lot, particularly young people where you can never know when
54:07
life's going to be. Yeah.
54:09
And I and I feel like they've really kind of taken pressure
54:12
off of themselves. The quality of life seems to
54:15
matter more. That's from what I'm seeing.
54:17
It's an observation. I'm seeing that too in person
54:20
events. Connecting people, really
54:23
valuing in person connection, which is cool in a day and age
54:26
where we can be connected in so many different ways.
54:29
But I really do see that value. Yeah, in person, touching other
54:34
people, hanging, you know, holding on.
54:36
I don't know. I think there's there's
54:38
something there that got weird, right?
54:40
You're right. No, it's good.
54:43
Jennifer what? So the podcast is called All
54:45
Figured Out as you know. What are you still trying to
54:48
figure out? Well, I guess I'm a work in.
54:51
Progress. What am I trying to figure out?
54:55
Well, I think I'm well, I'm trying to decide how much I want
54:58
to, if I ever have. Another novel in me.
55:01
This will be #2 Do I have another?
55:07
Do I? How much do I want the art to
55:09
matter? I.
55:11
You know, I think I wanna. Keep working as long as I have
55:15
this same drive but. Having had this.
55:20
Back breaking this back and living in pain this you know,
55:24
it's kind of scared me into wondering my being unrealistic,
55:27
but why am I? No, I'm not.
55:30
My parents lived into their 90s. Why the hell can't I live at
55:33
least as long as they did? And I don't drink.
55:36
There you go. So I'm.
55:40
So I'm looking for more horizons, more things, more
55:43
things. Maybe there's something else I
55:45
wanna do, Who knows? I love that.
55:47
What? Do you hope you wanna have a?
55:49
Podcast. OHP, there it is.
55:53
Like this for. You.
55:55
What do you hope in people hearing your story?
55:58
And I just love. I'm so appreciative for you
56:01
coming on to share from a few years ahead in the future.
56:05
You know, you're a few years ahead of me and OHS like a few
56:10
decades. A few few years.
56:12
What do you hope people you know, myself included, are
56:16
walking away after listening to your story?
56:18
What do you hope they're walking away with?
56:21
Maybe hope? The life can you know?
56:26
People can constrict their lives with ways that aren't
56:30
necessarily, you know, put pressure on themselves that it's
56:34
OK to fail. You know, you do what you love
56:38
if you, if you can afford to and if you have a passion, do it.
56:41
And if you're terrible at it, then you're terrible at it and
56:44
it doesn't work. It doesn't matter.
56:47
Do people remember the fails like you know how?
56:49
People are worried about the failure not because of the
56:51
failure itself. They're worried about what other
56:53
people think. Do we need to remember?
56:56
That's a curse. Of course I would.
57:00
Think it would, of course. I worry what other people think,
57:02
but you know, there's going to be, you know, it's like when you
57:04
do it, anything you do like I've, I have a, I have a movie
57:08
coming out. I I have I'm working on a
57:11
musical series for hoping to get a streaming deal with it.
57:18
I've you. Know I've got a this.
57:20
Book. I've got another book coming.
57:21
You know, the book I have alphabet and another book.
57:24
You know, people read my book. God knows what.
57:26
You know, it's scary and you read your, you know, you read
57:29
your rear views and you try not to let it get to you.
57:33
Um, I don't know, I guess, you know, it's kind of my attitude
57:38
about, oh, hi, I have my cat. Just kidding.
57:40
Just say hi. It's like the way I feel.
57:45
About my cooking, If you don't like it, too bad.
57:50
You, you, you go home and cook a better meal if you if you don't.
57:54
You know. Yeah, you don't like my book?
57:57
You could. You don't like it?
57:58
Yeah. You try writing a movie.
57:59
You. Try producing a movie.
58:02
You try writing a novel. I like that, you know, so I'd
58:05
like to I'd. Like to feel that?
58:06
Way if somebody, if somebody said something really horrible
58:09
to me, of course, that's all I know.
58:10
It's all I'd hear. Just the criticism.
58:12
Yeah. So I'm not, as you know, I'm not
58:14
as good about that as I pretend to be, but I have to do it for
58:19
myself. I have to.
58:20
My biggest critic is myself and I have to satisfy myself.
58:25
I love that. Thank you so much.
58:27
Where can people? Oh my goodness, you've got so
58:30
you've got Alphabet, your book, you have your movie coming out.
58:32
There's a lot of a lot of things coming out on the horizon.
58:35
Tell us what what you've got coming out.
58:37
What is out now? Where can people find you?
58:40
Well, I have a website. It's my name Jennifer
58:43
manchurian.net. It's, I think it's
58:45
Https://theresnowww. Not that up to date to be honest
58:51
with you, because my, the movie is, is we've changed the title
58:55
and it's gonna be rolling out this fall on a where we have a
59:00
lot of, we have kind of exciting stuff planned, but I've talked
59:03
too much already. But we are doing a Q&A to go to
59:07
accompany it with a bunch of experts because it's about
59:10
sexual trauma. And RAIN, which is the largest
59:13
organization, sexual violence organization in our country, is
59:17
partnering with us. And we're going to be doing a
59:19
series of events through a website called Gather.
59:23
Wow. So that's going to be this fall.
59:25
And then this streaming thing, we're just, we, we've taped it
59:29
this summer. And that's a work in progress.
59:31
It's been a long time. They can reach me through my
59:35
website. People can reach me, OK.
59:38
And they can find Alphabet on Amazon.
59:39
It sounds like, well, yeah, I'm on a bunch of sites it's not in.
59:43
Bookstores, but it's on a bunch of sites.
59:45
OK, OK, I'll find the links and I'll put.
59:47
Them in the show notes, that'd be great.
59:49
Thank you. I appreciate.
59:50
That well, I appreciate you. So much I really do.
59:54
I think this is so oh, it's just I, I really appreciate how real
1:00:00
you've been in this conversation and I haven't felt like you've
1:00:03
tried to sugarcoat things with hindsight being like, oh, don't
1:00:06
worry, everything works out. You'll all you know, you are
1:00:09
being a great mom. Like it really the what I'm
1:00:11
taking away from the conversation is that.
1:00:13
There's going to be moments where things aren't working out
1:00:16
and in which case, OK, take that as information and use it and do
1:00:19
something with it. Don't dwell.
1:00:21
I mean, I'm a regroup per. And you, I don't know if you can
1:00:25
make you can make yourself that, but that's also part of what
1:00:28
makes my life easier. But absolutely everything
1:00:31
doesn't work out. Life, life is full of pitfalls
1:00:34
and traumas. And I mean, I've had more more
1:00:38
that I'm going to share on this broadcast.
1:00:41
It doesn't. You know, it's not all easy, but
1:00:46
for whatever. Reason I just keep.
1:00:48
Going well, I know you will continue.
1:00:52
To I, I'm sure you've got another book.
1:00:54
I feel like you're going to be on camera.
1:00:56
You'll do a movie there. Maybe you have an acting career
1:00:59
in you. I can I see big things that's.
1:01:03
That is not a dream. OK, not a dream.
1:01:06
Never mind. Take that back.
1:01:08
Thank you SO. Much So where do you?
1:01:10
Live, I live. In Vancouver, Canada.
1:01:13
Oh, I'm from Toronto. We are diagonal.
1:01:18
We are diagonal. Yeah, so I I did grow up in
1:01:20
Toronto. So if you come to New York, find
1:01:23
me. I will.
1:01:24
Oh, I will. Good.
1:01:26
I would love that. I would.
1:01:28
Love to meet you in. Person go to a show with you,
1:01:29
I'll go. If your husband won't go to a
1:01:31
show with you, I'll go to a show with you people.
1:01:34
I'm sure most people in our business don't think I'm married
1:01:37
because I've got shows with so many people.
1:01:41
I go alone. I love it.
1:01:43
There's something I wanna see. I go see it.
1:01:45
Good for you. Well, thank you so much.
1:01:47
I hope your back feels better. I appreciate you and this
1:01:50
conversation so much and I hope to stay in touch.
1:01:52
Thank you, Andrew. Thank you so much for listening
1:01:59
and. Since you made it this far,
1:02:01
please share this episode with a fellow parent who you love,
1:02:03
respect, and want to support. And while you're at it.
1:02:07
Hit me up on Instagram. At All figured out Andrea, I
1:02:10
would love to meet you and hear what you are trying to figure
1:02:13
out these days.