Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / Dog lover's stomach slit open, baby stolen

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Dog lover's stomach slit open, baby stolen · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:05
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace Bonbshell. In the last hours,
0:16
Speaker 1: it has been announced the first female federal prisoner to
0:23
Speaker 1: be executed in seventy years. Repeat, the first female federal
0:31
Speaker 1: prisoner will be executed, the first female federal prisoner to
0:36
Speaker 1: be executed in seventy seven, zero years, and you'll see why.
0:49
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace making Harper is worried her daughter,
1:00
Speaker 1: Bobby Joe, was supposed to pick her up at work.
1:05
Speaker 1: Becky calls her daughter's home and cell phones. There is
1:08
Speaker 1: no answer. When Becky got off work, then she went
1:12
Speaker 1: to the house to look for an order and found
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Speaker 1: Bobby on the floor. She immediately called nine one one.
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Speaker 1: Becky Harper sees her child sprawled out on the wood
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Speaker 1: grained floor, blood all over the room. Basically her innards
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Speaker 1: exposed and she's lifeless. Terrified, Becky tells the nine one
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Speaker 1: one operator it looks like her stomach exploded. It's a
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Speaker 1: gruesome murder. The crime scenes horrific. He was described to
1:44
Speaker 1: me as a bloody snow angel. You were hearing Kathleen
1:47
Speaker 1: Garrett and the TV show solved guys. The mother comes
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Speaker 1: home and finds her daughter there. Dad. She says quote
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Speaker 1: the innerds are supposed that it looks as if her
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Speaker 1: daughter's stomach exploded again. I'm Nancy Grace. This is crime Stories.
2:10
Speaker 1: Thank you for being with us, with me an all
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Speaker 1: star panel to make sense of it. First of all,
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Speaker 1: Kathleen Murphy, renowned family attorney, joining me out of North
2:19
Speaker 1: Carolina at NC Domestic Law dot com. Doctor Angela Arnold,
2:25
Speaker 1: renowned psychiatrists joining us out of the Atlanta jurisdiction. You
2:28
Speaker 1: can find her at Angela Arnold MD dot com. Former
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Speaker 1: please chief of John's Create Chris Buyer's twenty five years
2:37
Speaker 1: on the force now pim Polygrapher at Chris Buyer's Investigations
2:41
Speaker 1: and polygraph dot com. Ben Levitan telecommunications expert. We've called
2:47
Speaker 1: on him many times before for his expertise and knowledge.
2:51
Speaker 1: He's at ben Levitan dot com. Doctor Kendall Crowns, the
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Speaker 1: Deputy Medical Examiner, Travis County, Texas. That is all Austin
3:00
Speaker 1: joining us. But first to Crime Online dot com and
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Speaker 1: investigative reporter Sierra Gillespie. Sierra, why did Becky Harper go
3:11
Speaker 1: to her daughter's home? What concerned her? So? Her daughter
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Speaker 1: Bobby Joe was supposed to pick her up from work.
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Speaker 1: This is something that they had pre scheduled planned. Her
3:22
Speaker 1: daughter is pretty reliable, so she expected, you know, her
3:25
Speaker 1: daughter's going to be there to pick her up. So
3:28
Speaker 1: when she never arrived at Becky's work, she kind of
3:31
Speaker 1: got a little nervous, as any mother would, So she
3:34
Speaker 1: walked over to Bobby Joe's house and that's when she
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Speaker 1: found that gruesome crime scene. Where did this happen. This
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Speaker 1: happened in Skidmore, Missouri, which is about two hours south
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Speaker 1: of Lincoln, Nebraska. What can you tell me about Skidmore, Missouri?
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Speaker 1: What is that? What's the population? What do we know
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Speaker 1: about it? Skid More, Missouri. So this is a really
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Speaker 1: small town. The population were waiting on the twenty twenty census,
4:02
Speaker 1: but of the most recent census, it's around two to
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Speaker 1: three hundred people. So I was not expecting that. Skidmore
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Speaker 1: City and Nottaway County, Missouri. You're right, population two hundred
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Speaker 1: and eighty four. That is even smaller than where I
4:24
Speaker 1: grew up in rural bib County. Red dirt roads, pine trees,
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Speaker 1: and soybean fields. It's about what all you could see there,
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Speaker 1: and I loved it. So tell me about Skidmore. The reason,
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Speaker 1: Sierra Gillespie is when you're trying to figure out who
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Speaker 1: a perp could be, if they're near a major interstate,
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Speaker 1: if they're in a major metropolitan city where it could
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Speaker 1: be any anybody, if they're you know, close to an airport,
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Speaker 1: some hub of some sort that would bring in strangers.
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Speaker 1: I'm assuming that's a big negative, right. So this is
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Speaker 1: a super small town. I looked it up on a
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Speaker 1: map because I'd honestly never heard of it, and it
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Speaker 1: is kind of on the border of Iowa and Nebraska there.
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Speaker 1: It's pretty far from Kansas City actually, so it's a really,
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Speaker 1: really small town. The closest interstate you've got is twenty nine,
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Speaker 1: but I don't you wouldn't really have to go through
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Speaker 1: Skidmore to get to any big cities. Guys. We are
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Speaker 1: talking about the sudden and shocking death of a twenty
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Speaker 1: three year old woman, Bobby Joe Stinnett. Her mom comes
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Speaker 1: over when Bobby Joe does not pick her up. The
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Speaker 1: mom from war, the mom, Becky Harper, and comes in
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Speaker 1: to find her daughter dead. To doctor Kendall Crowns, Deputy
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Speaker 1: Medical Examiner, Travis County, Texas, that's Austin doctor Crowns. She
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Speaker 1: says that her stomach looked like it exploded. She said,
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Speaker 1: you can see the quote innards, what would that have been?
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Speaker 1: What did she see? So, what she probably was looking
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Speaker 1: at was her intestines and her abdominal organs, because the
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Speaker 1: abdominal organs are not held in place by your rib
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Speaker 1: cage like your chest organs are. So when you cut
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Speaker 1: into the abdomen itself, everything in the abdomen can, if
6:23
Speaker 1: you're standing up, can then come out. So that includes
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Speaker 1: your intestines, your liver, your stomach, even your spleen and pancreas.
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Speaker 1: Kidneys would probably stay in place. But really what she's
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Speaker 1: probably describing as the majority of the intestines laying outside
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Speaker 1: of the body. Take a listen to FBI Criminal Pursuit.
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Speaker 1: He arrives on the scene to find a desperate Becky
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Speaker 1: administering CPR on her unconscious daughter. Bobby Joe was laying
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Speaker 1: on the floor on her back, and I noticed a
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Speaker 1: lot of bloods sheriff takes over CPR in tears, Becky
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Speaker 1: tells him her daughter, he's eight months pregnant. Knight glanced
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Speaker 1: at her stomach and in my mind, I thought No,
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Speaker 1: she's not. Her stomach is too flat, she's not pregnant.
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Speaker 1: And then, of course I can see the knife wounds
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Speaker 1: on the lower abdumen, so I knew then that the
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Speaker 1: baby had been cut out. Whoever attacked Bobby Joe gave
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Speaker 1: her a crude C section. There is no sign of
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Speaker 1: the baby anywhere. EMTs arrive at the home minutes later
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Speaker 1: and transport Bobby Joe to the hospital, but it's too late.
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Speaker 1: Doctors pronounced her dead at four twenty seven pm two
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Speaker 1: Doctor Kendal Crowns Depu Medical Examder, Travis County, Austin. I'm
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Speaker 1: guessing the cod cause of death would have been bleeding
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Speaker 1: out lots of blood. Well, the cause of death would
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Speaker 1: probably be sharp horse injuries because of the stab wounds,
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Speaker 1: But the reason why she died would be off or
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Speaker 1: loss of blood. Yet, what major arteries would have been severed? Well,
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Speaker 1: in that situation, it's probably not a major artery that's
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Speaker 1: getting severed. It's more a large group of blood vessels
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Speaker 1: being disrupted by the injuries. So you've got the blood
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Speaker 1: vessels that are involved with the uterus, the blood vessels
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Speaker 1: that are in the abdominal cavity, all those blood vessels
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Speaker 1: would probably been damaged, but you wouldn't get like a
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Speaker 1: major one like the aorta, but more like mesentary vessels
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Speaker 1: and uterine vessels. Well, what blood vessels feed the baby
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Speaker 1: and go to the uterus, the placenta, I mean I
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Speaker 1: would assume that would be a major amount of blood. Well,
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Speaker 1: it is the vessels that feed the uterus, or it's
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Speaker 1: quite a large complex of vessels that are involved with
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Speaker 1: providing a blood supplying to the uterus and then of
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Speaker 1: course the placenta. So they are very if you cut
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Speaker 1: into them, they bleed quite heavily. So those would be
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Speaker 1: the main vessel was involved as the ones involved with
9:01
Speaker 1: the uterus. Again, Doctor Kendall Crowns, I'm just a JD.
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Speaker 1: You're the MD, but I think that the body contains
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Speaker 1: about a little more than a gallon jug of blood.
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Speaker 1: Does your body create more blood when you're pregnant to
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Speaker 1: feed the baby? It does, So a pregnant woman has
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Speaker 1: a higher circulating blood volume than your average person, so
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Speaker 1: they can help nourish the baby with oxygenated blood. Take
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Speaker 1: a listen to Kathleen Garrett from Salt three forty three PM.
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Speaker 1: Suriff ben Espy arrives at Bobby jostin his house and
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Speaker 1: immediately takes over CPR from Bobby Joe's distraught mother, Becky Hopper.
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Speaker 1: It was pretty apparent that there had been a violent
9:46
Speaker 1: struggle in the room where this occurred. There was blood
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Speaker 1: everywhere on the room, spattered all over the floor of
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Speaker 1: the walls. It was. It was an awful mess. There
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Speaker 1: was just a massive of am out of smeared blood
10:01
Speaker 1: in that room, probably an unused bedroom area. There were
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Speaker 1: some puppy cages because Bobby Joe raised and sold rat
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Speaker 1: terrier dogs. Bobby Joe was laying on her back in
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Speaker 1: the middle of the room, was blunt, her stomach was exposed.
10:31
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Guys, we are talking about
10:36
Speaker 1: the death of a beautiful young woman, Bobby Jay Stinnett,
10:40
Speaker 1: pregnant at the time to doctor Angela Arnold, psychiatrist joining
10:44
Speaker 1: us out of Atlanta. I remember when my fiance was murdered.
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Speaker 1: I did not want to see him in the casket.
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Speaker 1: I've rethought that decision over the years and have now
10:57
Speaker 1: decided that was the right thing at that time. Because
11:01
Speaker 1: then just a few years ago, as you know, my
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Speaker 1: dad passed away and I was there when he passed away,
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Speaker 1: and stayed with his body after everybody else left, And
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Speaker 1: that's in my mind forever. I almost wish that it wasn't.
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Speaker 1: I mean, I'm glad I did it. I wouldn't have
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Speaker 1: it any other way, but that memory is there. This mom,
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Speaker 1: the mom who discovered her daughter Bobby Joe murdered in
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Speaker 1: this horrible fashion, a crude, barbaric c section, with the
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Speaker 1: baby gone and her daughter there saying she said, her
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Speaker 1: innards are exposed. That her words, how do you get
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Speaker 1: past that memory in your mind? There's no way to
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Speaker 1: wipe it away, Doctor Angie, No, she will always have
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Speaker 1: that picture in her head. I'm sure she will suffer
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Speaker 1: from post traumatic stress disorder because of that, because that's
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Speaker 1: some thing that we suffer from you if you experience
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Speaker 1: something that is completely out of the ordinary as far
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Speaker 1: as trauma goes. She will never get that picture out
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Speaker 1: of her head. There are types of therapy that you
12:13
Speaker 1: can do to help you dissociate how you feel about
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Speaker 1: the trauma from the actual trauma itself, and that helps
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Speaker 1: people to to move forward from thus. But she will
12:25
Speaker 1: never completely get rid of that vision in her head.
12:28
Speaker 1: I've never heard of that doctor Angel. What is that therapy?
12:31
Speaker 1: There's a therapy called E M d R. It has
12:34
Speaker 1: to do with an eye movement. And there's another therapy
12:38
Speaker 1: called brain spotting. And there's some really good people here
12:41
Speaker 1: in Atlanta that are actually and we are a stand
12:45
Speaker 1: for because to me, did you say it has to
12:47
Speaker 1: do with your eyes? Yes, yes, it's an eye It's
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Speaker 1: a therapy in which the therapist as you move your eyes.
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Speaker 1: Have you moved your eyes back and forth? And it's
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Speaker 1: I movement desensitization and ever can't remember what the R
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Speaker 1: stands for? And um, it helps you to. It really
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Speaker 1: does work, Nancy. It helps you to dissociate the trauma
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Speaker 1: from your from the emotions that you feel from the trauma.
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Speaker 1: I'm not buying it, not even for a little bit.
13:21
Speaker 1: Sorry you're telling me, I'm rapid. Movement associates the memories
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Speaker 1: from your mind. It dissociates the stealings that you have
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Speaker 1: about the about the trauma from the actual trauma. You
13:33
Speaker 1: will never forget the trauma, but every time you think
13:37
Speaker 1: of the trauma, it won't bring you to that same
13:40
Speaker 1: horrific place that it brought you to when it first happened.
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Speaker 1: It's just to associate the feelings from the trauma. Okay, well,
13:46
Speaker 1: you know what, I'm going to put a pen in
13:48
Speaker 1: that and circle back to this murder h you know,
13:52
Speaker 1: to you Chief Buyers Chris Buyer's former chief of police
13:55
Speaker 1: John's Creek now Chris Buyer's investigations in polygraph dot com.
14:00
Speaker 1: How and the Hey, when you come on a scene
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Speaker 1: like that, do you keep your cool? I remember coming
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Speaker 1: on not a scene like this, but let's say Truble homicide.
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Speaker 1: Something always took over with me at that moment, and
14:15
Speaker 1: all I could think about was evidence and securing the
14:18
Speaker 1: scene and really fast forwarding to the time of trial,
14:21
Speaker 1: how I was going to use this and that and
14:23
Speaker 1: that and this to prove a case. This sheriff comes
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Speaker 1: on and thinks there may be a chance to save
14:30
Speaker 1: the victim. How do you keep your head on at
14:33
Speaker 1: that time? Chief? Yeah, at that point, it's just all
14:36
Speaker 1: about your training. Your training kicks in. It becomes just
14:40
Speaker 1: your secondary movement. You know. One of the things that
14:42
Speaker 1: people forget about when it comes to police officers. You know,
14:46
Speaker 1: if you're a doctor in a hospital whatever, you're expecting
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Speaker 1: this trauma to come to you. When the fire department
14:52
Speaker 1: gets somewhere. It's normally they've been told what they're coming
14:54
Speaker 1: up on. You know, when you're a police officer, you
14:56
Speaker 1: could be working a wreck one second, taking a theft report.
15:00
Speaker 1: You don't even know what you're walking into. So it
15:02
Speaker 1: is all about your training and experience kicks in. There's
15:05
Speaker 1: just something in you that compartmentalizes and pushes you forward
15:09
Speaker 1: to do the job. Compartmentalizes. I guess you're right compartmentalizing. Guys,
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Speaker 1: listen to this, The doctor said, Sheriff, you're running out
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Speaker 1: of time. You're gonna have to find this child very fast.
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Speaker 1: Search of the residence as well as the neighboring area
15:27
Speaker 1: was conducted and the unborn child had not been found.
15:30
Speaker 1: The only information initially obtained during the neighborhood canvas was
15:35
Speaker 1: that a small red car had been seen at the
15:37
Speaker 1: residence earlier in the afternoon. We sealed off a big
15:42
Speaker 1: portionist give more. I had a lot of volunteers looking
15:45
Speaker 1: in dumpsters, looking in the river, looking everywhere possible. They're
15:49
Speaker 1: going to be a baby that would have been tossed away.
15:53
Speaker 1: As the pressure amounts and the case goes more complicated,
15:57
Speaker 1: the sheriff calls for help. It was determined very early
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Speaker 1: on that more investigative officers were needed in this investigation.
16:07
Speaker 1: I suggested to the sheriff that we activate the initial
16:10
Speaker 1: response team of the Northwest Major Case Squad. You're hearing
16:14
Speaker 1: our friend Kathleen Garrett. It's solved straight out to telecommunications
16:18
Speaker 1: expert Ben Levitan joining me from Raleigh. He's at ben
16:23
Speaker 1: Levitan dot com. Ben, what is the name? I just
16:27
Speaker 1: want to say dragnet, but I know that's not the
16:30
Speaker 1: correct name, the name of the device or the practice.
16:39
Speaker 1: When police do a dragnet basically of all the cell
16:44
Speaker 1: phones that were in an area at a certain time,
16:48
Speaker 1: we would call it a cell tower dump. Okay, so
16:53
Speaker 1: if you connect to a cell tower, the cell tower,
16:58
Speaker 1: that's how you get your phone calls to see the
17:00
Speaker 1: phone company keeps track of where your cell tower is
17:04
Speaker 1: by your phone number, and when you leave that cell tower,
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Speaker 1: we deregister you from that cell tower and register you
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Speaker 1: on the next cell tower. So we want to know
17:16
Speaker 1: who was around Bobby Joe's house around the time of
17:21
Speaker 1: the crime. It's it's pretty easy to go talk to
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Speaker 1: the phone company and say, could you dump all a
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Speaker 1: list of all the phone numbers that were here around
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Speaker 1: this time, and what that gives you is a list
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Speaker 1: of everybody who's in the area. The suspect could be
17:37
Speaker 1: in that area, but also witnesses could be in that area.
17:40
Speaker 1: Why isn't that you used all the time? Well, for one,
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Speaker 1: there's probably some legal reasons, you know, lawyer, because it's
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Speaker 1: very intensive, Nancy. In an area like this with only
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Speaker 1: two hundred people, it's not going to be that onerous.
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Speaker 1: But if you're talking about being downtown Manhattan, how many
18:02
Speaker 1: thousands and thousands of people connect to a cell tower
18:06
Speaker 1: every hour it's quite a bit. So a lot of
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Speaker 1: time it's not useful, But in this case it would
18:13
Speaker 1: be useful. If you could have a list of all
18:15
Speaker 1: the phones that were in the vicinity of the house
18:19
Speaker 1: at that time and could dump them. It would probably
18:24
Speaker 1: be pretty simple matter to go through. Number One, you're
18:28
Speaker 1: looking for someone from out of town, so the area
18:31
Speaker 1: code and the phone number are going to be different.
18:35
Speaker 1: So that's the first thing I would look for. Time
18:53
Speaker 1: stories with Nancy Grace, guys. In the last hours, it's
18:59
Speaker 1: stunning announcement has been made. The first female federal prisoner
19:04
Speaker 1: is set to be put to death, and now we're
19:08
Speaker 1: finding out why first female prisoner in seventy years to
19:14
Speaker 1: be executed. Listen to our friend Kathleen Garrett. At seven
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Speaker 1: eighteen pm, four hours after the nine one one call,
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Speaker 1: a forensic team begins a detailed sweep of the crime scene.
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Speaker 1: It is the bloodiest one they have ever seen. Sergeant
19:30
Speaker 1: Dave Merril to Howard Trope started telling me investigators from
19:32
Speaker 1: Ottawa County in contact with him to borrow additional luminol
19:35
Speaker 1: to spray for blood. Luminol is the chemical used to
19:39
Speaker 1: highlight blood and blood sputer. They wanted a quarter or
19:44
Speaker 1: something as much as they possibly could. That would be
19:47
Speaker 1: an exceptional amount luminol used on a crime scene. There
19:50
Speaker 1: was a lot of blood that was lost. There were slippies,
19:53
Speaker 1: you could see what they slept on the floor, and
19:54
Speaker 1: they had rastled around, and there were clots of blood
19:58
Speaker 1: the size of popkins gattered around the room. The blood
20:03
Speaker 1: samples are rushed to the lab for DNA analysis. Bobby
20:07
Speaker 1: Joe's computer is sent to a computer forensic lab in
20:10
Speaker 1: Kansas City, but the crime scene yields few other clues. Okay,
20:15
Speaker 1: right there, what does that mean? Doctor Kendall Crowns, Jeffuty
20:18
Speaker 1: Medical examined Travis County, Texas. That's austin that there were
20:22
Speaker 1: clots of blood. The clots of blood are probably associated
20:26
Speaker 1: with the actual pregnancy. That when the placenta is being
20:33
Speaker 1: removed and torn out of the bobby, you can get
20:35
Speaker 1: blood clots, and also the fragments of placenta can be
20:38
Speaker 1: mistaken as blood clots. You know what to you, Kathleen Murphy,
20:42
Speaker 1: North Carolina, family lawyer and family laws, anything but family law.
20:47
Speaker 1: It's so it's like putting your hand between two fighting
20:51
Speaker 1: Rottweiler's Kathleen Murphy, just think about this. Think about this.
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Speaker 1: What was done to this woman, a pregnant woman. I
21:07
Speaker 1: think she was eight or nine months pregnant. To me,
21:12
Speaker 1: that shows you know my point is in court, I
21:16
Speaker 1: know Jackie did and I did. Just then, as doctor
21:20
Speaker 1: Kimmel Crowns was describing why there were blood clots at
21:24
Speaker 1: the same not just freely flowing blood from her veins,
21:30
Speaker 1: you have to tell the jury that you have to
21:33
Speaker 1: point that out to them in crime scene photos. It
21:36
Speaker 1: is the duty of the prosecutor. There's no way around it.
21:40
Speaker 1: Even as awful as it is. Why you have to
21:44
Speaker 1: convince the jury of the trauma because they want that
21:47
Speaker 1: death they want is the truth, Cathline, It's the truth. Truth.
21:52
Speaker 1: Have you ever had a case where the truth was
21:56
Speaker 1: awful and you did not want to describe it for
21:58
Speaker 1: a jury, but you had too. Whenever I went in
22:02
Speaker 1: front of the jury, I was no hope for what
22:06
Speaker 1: do you mean? I went one hundred percent to the
22:10
Speaker 1: truth and very descriptive and very clear. That was our job.
22:16
Speaker 1: There's no way around it. When they hear this, guys,
22:20
Speaker 1: take a listen to FBI Criminal Pursuit. One of the
22:23
Speaker 1: first things have become obviously apparent to me was that
22:26
Speaker 1: there were literature marks around her neck. I could see
22:29
Speaker 1: rope marks that were very visible pressed into her flesh
22:32
Speaker 1: that appeared to be a small hord of some type
22:35
Speaker 1: that hadn't been rolled. And I could see three distinct
22:38
Speaker 1: marks that had been left in her neck. There are
22:41
Speaker 1: several jagged cut marks instant it's lower abdomen where the
22:45
Speaker 1: baby was removed. And there's something else. When I looked
22:52
Speaker 1: at Bobby Joe's hands, there was hair there, which indicated
22:55
Speaker 1: to me that Bobby Joe had probably grabbed a hold
22:59
Speaker 1: of her attacker. Some of it looked like it was
23:01
Speaker 1: Bobby Joe's hair. Some of it did not. It's clear
23:05
Speaker 1: to everyone that the expectant mother fought for her child.
23:09
Speaker 1: She not only was trying to save her own life,
23:11
Speaker 1: she was trying to say Victoria Joe's side. She was struggling.
23:16
Speaker 1: She has the defensive marks where her fingers were being
23:19
Speaker 1: kept her elbows. The skin was coming off her elbows
23:22
Speaker 1: trying to fight back. Her feet were in a pool
23:25
Speaker 1: of blood, and she was trying to say Victoria Joe's lie. Okay,
23:30
Speaker 1: I needed a medical examine or doctor Kennel Crowns. What
23:33
Speaker 1: are we hearing? Explained to me and break it down place.
23:36
Speaker 1: We're not all medical doctors. Sure, So what I'm hearing
23:41
Speaker 1: is classic defensive type injuries. So as the individuals being stabbed,
23:47
Speaker 1: they tried to protect themselves anyway they can. You know,
23:51
Speaker 1: you don't have a knife yourself, so it even comes
23:54
Speaker 1: down to trying to grab the knife to just stop
23:57
Speaker 1: the attack. Cecd's injuries on the hand, hands and on
24:00
Speaker 1: the back of the arms as they're trying to protect themselves,
24:04
Speaker 1: and then the hair fibers in the hands. I mean,
24:07
Speaker 1: at that point it's fighting back is all she has
24:12
Speaker 1: left is grabbing the Salem's hair and then pulling the hair,
24:15
Speaker 1: just trying to stop the attack in any way she can.
24:20
Speaker 1: The fight of a lifetime, Bobby Joe Stinnant waging war
24:24
Speaker 1: against her attack, or to say, not only her life,
24:27
Speaker 1: but the life of her baby. Back to U Sierra Gillespie,
24:32
Speaker 1: Crime online dot Com investigative reporter, how pregnant was Bobby
24:36
Speaker 1: ja Stent at age twenty three? So she was eight
24:38
Speaker 1: month pregnant at the time of this attack. Um to
24:42
Speaker 1: you be in Levatan. I remember the name of that.
24:45
Speaker 1: That device, It's called a stingray A sting That's a
24:52
Speaker 1: whole another issue. What is that? Okay? So when you
24:59
Speaker 1: when you use your cell phone, Nancy, you are connected
25:02
Speaker 1: up to the closest cell tower. You always connect to
25:05
Speaker 1: the closest cell tower, and that provides your connection to
25:09
Speaker 1: the worldwide phone network. Well, now there's a controversial, and
25:13
Speaker 1: I have to say controversial device out there that law
25:18
Speaker 1: enforcement uses. It's a mini cell tower. And this mini
25:23
Speaker 1: cell tower they can drop it anywhere they want. And
25:27
Speaker 1: when so, say they drop the cell tower in a
25:30
Speaker 1: neighborhood where they want to listen in on somebody, they
25:33
Speaker 1: just drop this device off on the street and your phone,
25:37
Speaker 1: so all connect to this fake cell tower and gives
25:42
Speaker 1: a law enforcement the ability to wiretap you without getting
25:46
Speaker 1: a search warrant. So this is a little bit all
25:50
Speaker 1: of the cell phone numbers that are being used in
25:53
Speaker 1: that area. It certainly does it. You have to understand, Nancy,
25:58
Speaker 1: that we put out cell towers based on the amount
26:01
Speaker 1: of people we think are going to be in the area.
26:04
Speaker 1: But suppose all of a sudden that a Lando decides
26:07
Speaker 1: to host the Olympics, all of a sudden for a
26:10
Speaker 1: temporary amount of time, there's going to be millions of
26:13
Speaker 1: people in that area. We don't expect, and we can't
26:15
Speaker 1: build new self towers. So what we do is bringing
26:18
Speaker 1: these little temporary self tower stick span the coin. Understand,
26:21
Speaker 1: I'm trying to think of a way that they could
26:24
Speaker 1: get all the cell phones that were used in this
26:26
Speaker 1: area in the time in question, particularly around the victim's house,
26:32
Speaker 1: and it seemed like this. Would you expect Chris Buyers
26:36
Speaker 1: for there to be DNA from the defendant? Yeah, absolutely,
26:40
Speaker 1: When you're talking about a struggle like this, I mean
26:42
Speaker 1: you're talking about hair fibers and stuff in her hand,
26:46
Speaker 1: So yes, absolutely, there would be DNA, I would imagine
26:50
Speaker 1: on a scene just like this with a blood soak scene.
26:54
Speaker 1: The police step back and punt, using tried and true
26:58
Speaker 1: police techniques. Take listen to FBI Criminal PROCEIP agent's process
27:04
Speaker 1: Bobby Joe's computer to see if there are any clues
27:08
Speaker 1: that may lead them to her killer. Then Bobby Joe's mother,
27:13
Speaker 1: Becky Harper, reveals something important. Becky tells investigators that an
27:19
Speaker 1: unknown visitor was at Bobby Joe's house right before she
27:24
Speaker 1: was murdered. The person was interested in buying one of
27:28
Speaker 1: her rat terrier puppies. We knew that Bobby Joey received
27:34
Speaker 1: a phone call from her mother at two thirty, during
27:38
Speaker 1: which time she says, I've got someone here looking at dogs.
27:42
Speaker 1: Could this customer be Bobby Joe's killer. Authorities interview Bobby
27:47
Speaker 1: Joe's neighbor who reports seeing a dirty pink or red
27:52
Speaker 1: car parked in front of Bobby Joe's house. He knows
27:57
Speaker 1: it was an important but can't recall the or model.
28:01
Speaker 1: It was parked in front of Bobby Joe's house. Probably
28:04
Speaker 1: the witness said it was there about twelve thirty and
28:07
Speaker 1: did not see when it left. Okay, right there Not
28:11
Speaker 1: only am I learning a lot someone was in the home,
28:15
Speaker 1: but I'm getting a real time frame because now I'm
28:18
Speaker 1: learning the victim, Bobby chose Sten And age twenty three,
28:21
Speaker 1: eight months pregnant, is on the phone with her mother
28:23
Speaker 1: at two thirty pm. By four twenty seven, less than
28:29
Speaker 1: two hours later, she's pronounced dead. The mother, Becky Joe,
28:34
Speaker 1: has come home. She finds her daughter dead. She tries
28:38
Speaker 1: to revive her. She calls nine one one the sheriffs
28:40
Speaker 1: to get their mts get there, and she's declared dead.
28:44
Speaker 1: So you've got a two hour window. Now we learn
28:48
Speaker 1: there was a visitor in the home. I mean Kathleen Murphy.
28:53
Speaker 1: I've argued this to jury's before when the defendant said
28:55
Speaker 1: I didn't do it. What's the likelihood that, in now
29:00
Speaker 1: we're down to about an hour and forty minute window,
29:04
Speaker 1: that somebody else came in, murdered her and escaped the
29:09
Speaker 1: scene with the baby unnoticed that somebody else was there
29:14
Speaker 1: was the likelihood of that. It's very low. You're right,
29:18
Speaker 1: You're right, and especially would this town being as small
29:22
Speaker 1: as it is. So we're getting the other clue we
29:25
Speaker 1: now know. Sierra Gillespie climb online dot com investigative reporter
29:29
Speaker 1: that Bobby Joe bred rat terriers, so was that her
29:33
Speaker 1: business that is corrupt? So she and her husband bred
29:37
Speaker 1: these rat terriers out of their home, and she would
29:40
Speaker 1: advertise online, so very often she would be in these
29:44
Speaker 1: chat rooms. I mean, you have to remember this is
29:46
Speaker 1: two thousand and four. The chat rooms are really popular,
29:49
Speaker 1: and that is where she would meet a lot of
29:51
Speaker 1: people who would be interested in the rat terriers. Reach
29:54
Speaker 1: out and say, Okay, I want to come buy a
29:55
Speaker 1: puppy and stop by crime stories with Nancy Grace. Guys,
30:17
Speaker 1: chat rooms online right there. I mean, I devoted a
30:21
Speaker 1: whole chapter of my new book, Don't be a victim
30:25
Speaker 1: to online safety letting people you don't know come to
30:30
Speaker 1: your home. Not blaming the victim, it's the fault of
30:33
Speaker 1: the killer, but in doing business out of your home,
30:38
Speaker 1: you're inviting complete unknowns into your home. Okay, guys, take
30:45
Speaker 1: a listen to Kathleen Garrett. One of the exact web
30:51
Speaker 1: address of the Breeders Board, which I gave him and
30:55
Speaker 1: I spelled out Darlene Fisher and also her email dress
31:00
Speaker 1: which was Fisher for Kids, which I thought was rather
31:03
Speaker 1: odd because it sounded like she was fishing for a
31:07
Speaker 1: kid or a child. I told him that the IP
31:11
Speaker 1: address appeared under every post and that I could give
31:15
Speaker 1: them the IP address. IP address is key information because
31:19
Speaker 1: there's only one computer. If we can trace that computer.
31:22
Speaker 1: As soon as we had that, I thought, if this
31:24
Speaker 1: baby's alive and Darlene Fisher is the one who took it,
31:28
Speaker 1: we can find her because we'll have her computer. Owen
31:31
Speaker 1: quickly traces the IP address to Darlene Fisher's Internet provider.
31:37
Speaker 1: I was able to determine it was assigned to QUEST
31:40
Speaker 1: Communications out of Virginia. I passed then information onto Special
31:43
Speaker 1: Agent Lapanovich and he called me later and he had
31:46
Speaker 1: Quest Communications on the phone. I explained to them that
31:50
Speaker 1: the nature of the situation that you had a murdered woman,
31:52
Speaker 1: that fetus had been cut from her, and they thought
31:55
Speaker 1: that the baby would be viable and that this was
31:58
Speaker 1: an emergency, and we would provide them with paperwork, search warrant.
32:01
Speaker 1: Grand Jury's a poenot down the road, and so they're
32:04
Speaker 1: very cooperative. So they're looking for this name is like
32:07
Speaker 1: a needle in a haystack. To you, Ben Levetam, what
32:11
Speaker 1: is an IP address? Okay, this is really simple. You
32:15
Speaker 1: know that your phone has a specific phone number on
32:20
Speaker 1: the Worldwide Telephone Network. Nancy, I can call you from
32:24
Speaker 1: anywhere in the world because I know your phone number.
32:27
Speaker 1: Now the Internet and you have a light to point out,
32:32
Speaker 1: yes you have Okay, go ahead. No, that's the phone network.
32:37
Speaker 1: But there's also the Internet, which is a data network,
32:40
Speaker 1: completely separate. Okay, let's just this is completely separate. And
32:44
Speaker 1: just like the phone network, every computer, every connection where
32:53
Speaker 1: wherever you connect to the Internet that has a phone
32:56
Speaker 1: number two and that's called an IP address. Like for example,
33:00
Speaker 1: if I want to go to crimes online, the crimes
33:04
Speaker 1: online is on a computer crime crime online. If I
33:13
Speaker 1: want to go to crime online, I type that into
33:16
Speaker 1: my brows say I want to see crime online. What happens.
33:21
Speaker 1: The first thing that happens is there's the Internet says, well,
33:25
Speaker 1: what's the IP address for crime online? So it so
33:30
Speaker 1: there's a directory out there and every website and has
33:34
Speaker 1: an address. It looks up the address and it finds
33:37
Speaker 1: that it finds out what that IP address is. An
33:42
Speaker 1: IP address is simply a phone number which will point
33:45
Speaker 1: you to a connection on the Internet. Now, when you
33:49
Speaker 1: send us chat message to everybody in the chat room.
33:52
Speaker 1: You send a message to the chat room, and the
33:55
Speaker 1: chat room distributed its distributes it to everybody that in
34:00
Speaker 1: that chair. How do they know, Well, they have a
34:02
Speaker 1: list of the IP addresses at so it's like a
34:06
Speaker 1: phone number for computers. Now, the name that is coming
34:10
Speaker 1: up on this IP address is Darlne Fisher. But then
34:15
Speaker 1: old fashioned police work comes into play and cops get
34:20
Speaker 1: a tip Listen. A woman named Patsy Hughes claims that
34:25
Speaker 1: someone she knows, Lisa Montgomery, might have Bobby Joe's baby.
34:32
Speaker 1: Patsy Hughes knew Lisa Montgomery and had received a phone
34:36
Speaker 1: call from her saying that baby has arrived. Lisa Montgomery's
34:42
Speaker 1: daughter was spending the night at Hughes's house when she
34:45
Speaker 1: heard that her mother had just had a baby. Okay,
34:49
Speaker 1: all right, bye, what's so exciting? My mom just had
34:53
Speaker 1: her baby. Montgomery never looked pregnant, and Hughes has long
34:57
Speaker 1: been suspicious that she was faking it. She is also
35:02
Speaker 1: well aware that Bobby Joe's baby was stolen from her body.
35:06
Speaker 1: She was on these message boards and saw on the
35:09
Speaker 1: message board on December seventeenth, someone posted a message about
35:12
Speaker 1: Bobby Joe having been murdered. Hughes also reveals something shocking.
35:18
Speaker 1: Lisa Montgomery has something in common with Bobby Joe Stinnet.
35:23
Speaker 1: She's now showing rat terrier dogs. She's in the dog
35:25
Speaker 1: circuit show, and it appears and she probably knows Bobby Joe.
35:32
Speaker 1: There you go, because when cops were looking at IPA
35:36
Speaker 1: dresses and they find Darlene Fisher, that name didn't work.
35:41
Speaker 1: And then out of the blue, a woman named Patsy
35:45
Speaker 1: Hughes is piecing it together an amateur sleuth. And it
35:49
Speaker 1: seems almost like that this woman, Lisa Montgomery is not
35:59
Speaker 1: just taking the baby, but the life of Bobby Joe Stinnett.
36:04
Speaker 1: Has she taken the baby and the life. She's now
36:08
Speaker 1: showing rat terriers on the dog's circuit From what I
36:12
Speaker 1: understand that it's a very close knit circuit. Kathleen Murvy,
36:17
Speaker 1: just imagine it. You deal with people all day long
36:21
Speaker 1: taking this stand. It's like a very close knit group.
36:26
Speaker 1: These people just think about the Westminster Dog Show. They
36:29
Speaker 1: all know each other. They see the same faces every year.
36:33
Speaker 1: Like at the courthouse, I'd see the same parade of
36:36
Speaker 1: defense attorneys, the same judges, the same experts, no offense,
36:40
Speaker 1: Dodger Kendall Crowns and being in love of Town, you'd
36:43
Speaker 1: see the same group. That's the way the dog circuit is.
36:47
Speaker 1: And now suddenly this woman Lisa Montgomery is showing rat
36:51
Speaker 1: terriers just like Bobby Joe Stinnett. What about it, Kathleen.
36:55
Speaker 1: I think these amateur sleuths are amazing. It's incredible for
36:58
Speaker 1: them to follow that story and reach out to the police.
37:03
Speaker 1: Like last night, I just saw a Law and Order
37:05
Speaker 1: episode for someone that's being assaulted that everybody in the
37:07
Speaker 1: city kind of closed their curtains and walked away. But
37:10
Speaker 1: when people stand up and say, this is what I
37:13
Speaker 1: know and what you were watching Law and Order, Okay,
37:18
Speaker 1: you do know that's not real, right, that's pretend. Okay,
37:24
Speaker 1: Chief Chris Buyers. I'll quickly move on to our police chief,
37:28
Speaker 1: former police chief from John's Creek. Chief. How often has
37:34
Speaker 1: a amateur sleuth a civilian, just as Kathleen Murphy is saying,
37:39
Speaker 1: correct a case for you? Oh so many times? You know,
37:42
Speaker 1: all these technological advances in society have helped us with investigations,
37:48
Speaker 1: you know, and it's increased our time and being able
37:51
Speaker 1: to solve them quicker. But there's nothing like having a
37:55
Speaker 1: witness like that. So many people that just get involved
37:59
Speaker 1: in these things and piece things together that you know,
38:02
Speaker 1: law enforcement is looking at some very specific things and
38:05
Speaker 1: so may miss some of these connections. So yeah, it's
38:08
Speaker 1: a that's an amazing resource to have out there, and
38:12
Speaker 1: we see how it work in this day. Man, you're
38:14
Speaker 1: not kenning. Take a listen to Solved. The morning after
38:18
Speaker 1: the murder, a team of police and FBI investigators are
38:21
Speaker 1: pursuing their best lead, an Internet address traced to a
38:25
Speaker 1: computer that's connected to a phone line in a small
38:29
Speaker 1: town in Kansas. Quest Communications comes back and they're able
38:34
Speaker 1: to tell me customer's name is Kevin Montgomery and he
38:37
Speaker 1: lives at a specific address in Melvern, Kansas. With the
38:41
Speaker 1: information we had, we now knew we had a name,
38:43
Speaker 1: we had a physical address in Kansas. So now we
38:45
Speaker 1: had some good lead to actually go to to see
38:47
Speaker 1: if we could physically find a baby. Almost simultaneously, investigators
38:53
Speaker 1: receive another tip pointing to Melverne. It has to do
38:58
Speaker 1: with a woman who, let's just say that suddenly has
39:01
Speaker 1: a baby. She'd been cleaning, she was pregnant. Someone didn't
39:03
Speaker 1: really think she was pregnant. The woman's name is Lisa Montgomery.
39:09
Speaker 1: That very morning girl. She r at the same time,
39:12
Speaker 1: both together, an FBI guy, says Lisa Montgomery, and my
39:17
Speaker 1: dispatch lady says Lisa Moctgomery said. Babingo, guys. She's already
39:21
Speaker 1: showing off the new baby girl to doctor Kendall Crown's
39:27
Speaker 1: Deputy Chief Medical exam or joining us out of Austin.
39:31
Speaker 1: Can you look how do you look at a baby
39:34
Speaker 1: and tell it's newborn? Usually when you look into baby,
39:38
Speaker 1: the newborns are just smaller and they I think that
39:44
Speaker 1: is basically if they're smaller compared to a more old baby.
39:50
Speaker 1: I can't think of anything else to really say. Now
39:52
Speaker 1: they still have their their umbilical cord is still attached.
39:56
Speaker 1: Oh well, I guess if you're talking right after birth, yeah,
39:59
Speaker 1: they would have the the stump of the bilical cord
40:02
Speaker 1: will be there and will dry off and fall out.
40:04
Speaker 1: But usually most people don't see that when they're looking
40:07
Speaker 1: at him. Just here, Gollesie Crimalline dot Com investigative reporter,
40:11
Speaker 1: the victim had hair in her hands, just at doctor
40:15
Speaker 1: Kendall Crown's pointing out, who did it match? The hair
40:20
Speaker 1: ended up matching Lisa Montgomery. When police get there and
40:25
Speaker 1: they see Lisa Montgomery, they see that it is streaked blonde,
40:30
Speaker 1: just like the hair in the victim's hands. To Sierra Gillespie,
40:35
Speaker 1: tell me about of course, after the jury convicted Lisa Montgomery,
40:39
Speaker 1: what is the mode of death penalty? You will receive
40:43
Speaker 1: lethal injection. This is the first federal female execution in
40:49
Speaker 1: seventy years. Sierra, did the baby go on to thrive
40:54
Speaker 1: and live? Nancy? This is the most miraculous thing about
40:58
Speaker 1: this story. Yes, she did born the same day her
41:02
Speaker 1: mother died. Victoria Joe is her name, and she's now
41:05
Speaker 1: sixteen years old. She would returned to her father and
41:10
Speaker 1: she survived in the healthy and just so you know,
41:13
Speaker 1: the baby had cut marks on it as well, but
41:20
Speaker 1: miraculously survived. We wait as justice unfolds. Nancy Grace crime
41:26
Speaker 1: story signing off Goodbye friend,