Latest / Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families / #399 Free Range Parents - Penny & Daniel

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#399 Free Range Parents - Penny & Daniel · Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families

0:03
Speaker 1: It's the Happy Families podcast. It's the podcast for the
0:07
Speaker 1: time poor parent who just wants answers now.
0:10
Speaker 2: But could be the big thing is that we saw
0:13
Speaker 2: so much value in each of the parents and we
0:17
Speaker 2: could you know, we sort of think to ourself, Oh, routine, amazing.
0:20
Speaker 2: I can imagine imagine if we could be more routine
0:22
Speaker 2: and more organized and have things ready that, you know,
0:25
Speaker 2: before five minutes before we were meant to walk out
0:27
Speaker 2: the door.
0:28
Speaker 1: And now here's the stars of our show, my mom
0:31
Speaker 1: and dad.
0:32
Speaker 3: Well, last night was the grand finale of Freendal Guidance.
0:36
Speaker 3: How good was that?
0:37
Speaker 4: Kylie without Wilderness Challenge. Yeah, I'm still I'm still wrapping
0:41
Speaker 4: my head around the fact that the two families that
0:43
Speaker 4: got through.
0:43
Speaker 3: Had never cared.
0:44
Speaker 2: I'd never cared.
0:45
Speaker 3: I know, out of the kids are looking at it,
0:46
Speaker 3: They're like they've never been camping, like they've never never
0:51
Speaker 3: been there. Just just so much fun. But I love
0:54
Speaker 3: the conversations that they had. I love the way they
0:56
Speaker 3: engaged with their kids. I mean, the whole the whole episode,
0:59
Speaker 3: the whole series is been so nice. And now that
1:01
Speaker 3: it's all over, we are so excited by the way.
1:04
Speaker 3: I'm justin you're Collie, my wife and mum to our
1:07
Speaker 3: six kids. I'm the parenting expert that was on the
1:09
Speaker 3: show on parental guidance and the founder of Happy Families
1:12
Speaker 3: dot com dot a. You and we are so excited
1:14
Speaker 3: because today we've got the scoop of all scoops. We
1:17
Speaker 3: have the winners.
1:19
Speaker 4: Daniel and Penny are with us today.
1:21
Speaker 3: Yeah, so welcome Penny, Welcome. Daniel's great to have you
1:23
Speaker 3: on the Happy Families podcast. Thanks for joining us, Thanks
1:26
Speaker 3: for having us guys, thanks for having us.
1:28
Speaker 5: Winners.
1:28
Speaker 3: You don't sound like you've just won, are you? Are
1:31
Speaker 3: you feeling okay?
1:33
Speaker 2: No? Do you know what is actually a really uncomfortable
1:36
Speaker 2: thing to suggest that you have won a show like this.
1:41
Speaker 3: You're the best parents in Australia. That's what it means.
1:43
Speaker 3: There's no parent that's equal to you.
1:45
Speaker 2: Please, I've taken it.
1:48
Speaker 6: I'm taking it all the way to the the.
1:50
Speaker 2: Next person that sees me at the supermarket. I do
1:54
Speaker 2: not claim that title by any straight Do.
1:56
Speaker 6: You know the problem? The problem Penny's got and the
1:59
Speaker 6: hardest thing about this is that now every time our
2:02
Speaker 6: kids step out of line, right, we've got this added pressures.
2:06
Speaker 2: Oh man, what are we going to do.
2:07
Speaker 4: Now, Kenny, I have. I have lived in that space
2:11
Speaker 4: for the last I don't know decade as very very
2:15
Speaker 4: stressful because I do not claim anything when it comes
2:19
Speaker 4: to parenting perfection, and our children are definitely not perfect.
2:24
Speaker 3: You're married, you married to one of Australia's best known
2:26
Speaker 3: parenting experts, and therefore people just look at us and
2:28
Speaker 3: expect that the kids are going to be perfect.
2:29
Speaker 6: We're getting that.
2:32
Speaker 2: Now, and in fact, that's part of I guess our
2:34
Speaker 2: parenting style is that we don't want them to be perfect.
2:37
Speaker 2: We want we don't want these obedient, you know, extremely
2:40
Speaker 2: well disciplined children. We want them to just be kids
2:44
Speaker 2: and make mistakes and so you know, they are allowed
2:47
Speaker 2: to be a bit wild. It will be.
2:50
Speaker 3: I want to offer you some reassurance based on what
2:53
Speaker 3: happened on parental guidance. I don't think anyone's looking at
2:55
Speaker 3: you guys and thinking, well, their kids are going to
2:57
Speaker 3: be perfect.
2:58
Speaker 6: Yeah, well.
3:01
Speaker 3: That's a comblin I go that that's that's a reassure.
3:03
Speaker 3: It's I'm not not a pull down anyway.
3:05
Speaker 4: Every time Julian opened his mouth or we could look,
3:07
Speaker 4: we just looked at each other and went, that's our
3:09
Speaker 4: seven year old.
3:13
Speaker 3: Favor. Our favorite line when we get in the car
3:15
Speaker 3: is we're taking you buddy.
3:21
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's definitely tuly in one liner.
3:24
Speaker 4: I'm wondering, as we said our conversation today, guys, have
3:27
Speaker 4: you always been on the same page with your parenting.
3:30
Speaker 2: I can think of defined moments that we weren't on
3:32
Speaker 2: the same page. Clear on the sticks up to me
3:35
Speaker 2: is when seb was really little and I'm thinking maybe two,
3:38
Speaker 2: and I was trying to do all the healthy eating
3:40
Speaker 2: things and the clean eating as you do first child,
3:45
Speaker 2: and one point I turned around and Daniel had given
3:47
Speaker 2: him a Magnum, like a Magnum ego that's got like
3:50
Speaker 2: three layers of chocolate with caramel in the middle and
3:53
Speaker 2: ice cream on the inside. And I was just like,
3:56
Speaker 2: what what the hell? This? This horrifying that in saying that
4:01
Speaker 2: he has never really enjoyed it, I think he made
4:04
Speaker 2: himself sick eating that as you do with a little
4:06
Speaker 2: two year old Tommy. He's never enjoyed eating like chocolate
4:09
Speaker 2: or any ice cream or things like that. Since. So,
4:13
Speaker 2: there's definitely times that we don't agree or that we
4:16
Speaker 2: haven't agreed. Can you think of any I.
4:20
Speaker 6: Think based on the relaxed style of parenting, there's not
4:25
Speaker 6: a lot not to We don't have a lot to
4:28
Speaker 6: disagree with. So whatever it is, it's very minimal because
4:31
Speaker 6: it's very much you know, as we said, we fly
4:36
Speaker 6: by the city pants. It's as you go, so we're
4:38
Speaker 6: not sitting there and analyzing, you know, parenting at any point.
4:44
Speaker 6: We're just living life.
4:45
Speaker 3: So was that a contest a lot from the outset though,
4:47
Speaker 3: like you both fully aligned with that idea. I mean,
4:51
Speaker 3: it sounds like a well, it sounds like Penny was
4:54
Speaker 3: definitely not, at least when it came to diet in
4:56
Speaker 3: the early stages.
4:57
Speaker 2: I think I started off to strike it quite a
4:59
Speaker 2: stressed parent, and I would say for the first say,
5:02
Speaker 2: six months of Seb's life, I was a bit of
5:04
Speaker 2: a wreck. Actually. We'd had, you know, we'd have some
5:08
Speaker 2: bit of a tragedy in the family just before he
5:10
Speaker 2: was born. And I think we were just both completely
5:14
Speaker 2: You were a bit of an ever stretch too, checking
5:15
Speaker 2: on him permanently in the and whatnot. So we were
5:19
Speaker 2: both we was but we were both you know, quite
5:22
Speaker 2: anxious parents, and I think we I reckon it was
5:26
Speaker 2: about the six four to six months Mike that we
5:28
Speaker 2: just thought this can't continue. We cannot parent in this way.
5:31
Speaker 2: We're doing our heads in. It's not good for us
5:34
Speaker 2: and it's not good for him and subsequently the other kids.
5:38
Speaker 2: So I really think it, you know, our parenting style
5:40
Speaker 2: was born from that moment of just going, we can't
5:42
Speaker 2: do this anymore. And then when we relaxed and started
5:45
Speaker 2: just going with the flow, things started being so much
5:48
Speaker 2: easier for us, and we found the kids were happier
5:52
Speaker 2: and everything worked so much smoother. That it worked, so
5:56
Speaker 2: we kept it, kept it going.
5:58
Speaker 4: That's awesome, Daniel, you touched on it in the show,
6:02
Speaker 4: just this acknowledgement that I guess the experience is that
6:05
Speaker 4: you'd had as a child kind of shaped and molded
6:08
Speaker 4: the way you wanted to parent moving forward. I'm wondering
6:11
Speaker 4: how for both of you the way your parent had
6:14
Speaker 4: influenced your parenting style moving forward.
6:18
Speaker 6: So raised by you know, parents that migrated to Australia
6:23
Speaker 6: and were very much for them. They were in an
6:29
Speaker 6: unfamiliar country, they weren't used to walk like you know,
6:32
Speaker 6: they were always used to the ocean. They weren't used
6:35
Speaker 6: to you know, the wilderness or the outback or they
6:39
Speaker 6: come from a completely different world, and for them, they
6:44
Speaker 6: were probably over protective of our safety, probably overprotective of
6:50
Speaker 6: you know, us being in dangerous situations, and that probably
6:54
Speaker 6: led them to being you know, strict and discipline as
7:01
Speaker 6: we grew up. So what that what that did for
7:04
Speaker 6: me me personally, was we probably grew up having anxiety
7:07
Speaker 6: around the things we weren't allowed to do. So we
7:10
Speaker 6: were anxious around water, we were anxious around heights, we
7:14
Speaker 6: were anxious around dogs. It's something so simple, like you know,
7:18
Speaker 6: like things like you know, animals and and and so
7:22
Speaker 6: so for us, you know, because we were never allowed
7:26
Speaker 6: to do any of those things or be around those
7:28
Speaker 6: things because as far as they were concerned, that was dangerous.
7:32
Speaker 6: We then we then grew up. Well I certainly did
7:35
Speaker 6: as I as I left home and became a teenager
7:37
Speaker 6: and an adult, I certainly wasn't comfortable around animals. I
7:41
Speaker 6: certainly wasn't comfortable in the ocean. I certainly wasn't comfortable
7:45
Speaker 6: you know, in situations where we were up heights and
7:48
Speaker 6: or anything like that, or.
7:49
Speaker 3: Camping as we saw in last night's episode, Like yeah,
7:53
Speaker 3: I love the way you said that. By the way,
7:54
Speaker 3: in the episode last night, were like, I haven't taken
7:56
Speaker 3: a camp because I've been scared of it. And I
7:59
Speaker 3: was like, that's not something that you hear too many
8:02
Speaker 3: parents say to their kids. Yeah we're not doing it
8:03
Speaker 3: because I'm scared. And I just was like, oh yes,
8:06
Speaker 3: so well said.
8:08
Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, yeah totally. And so for us, well for
8:12
Speaker 6: me personally, I wanted my I just want my kids
8:14
Speaker 6: to grow up knowing that, you know, just trying it
8:18
Speaker 6: and being brave, brave probably the word, and knowing that
8:22
Speaker 6: you know, there's no the consequence isn't as bad as
8:25
Speaker 6: my parents thought they would be.
8:27
Speaker 2: And how about you, Penny, I think of it. There's
8:30
Speaker 2: a lot of stuff around saying that my parents were
8:32
Speaker 2: free range. That's not quite that's not quite right. My
8:35
Speaker 2: parents were quite streaked actually. You know, we weren't allowed
8:39
Speaker 2: to watch you know, The Simpsons was bad news. Home
8:41
Speaker 2: and Away was a big no. Like, no magazines allowed,
8:44
Speaker 2: none of those things they were out, you know, no
8:47
Speaker 2: boyfriends were allowed. We Yeah, so as a result, we
8:53
Speaker 2: were we were quite sneaky kids, like quite sneaky teenagers.
8:57
Speaker 2: And I think my mum knew we had each I
8:59
Speaker 2: was one of three and we had each other's backs,
9:02
Speaker 2: and so in a way she thought they're talking to
9:05
Speaker 2: each other, it's all good. But I definitely wanted a
9:08
Speaker 2: relationship with my kids where they could be honest with
9:12
Speaker 2: us and that they could talk to us about anything,
9:15
Speaker 2: and anything was okay as long as we knew about it,
9:18
Speaker 2: we could work through anything. So that's I think how Yeah,
9:22
Speaker 2: my parents' parenting style affected my own.
9:26
Speaker 4: I love that acknowledgment, Penny, just you know, kind of
9:29
Speaker 4: wanting that connection with your children and helping them to
9:34
Speaker 4: know that they can come and talk to you about anything.
9:35
Speaker 4: And I think that our previous generation of parents often
9:39
Speaker 4: parented us out of fear, you know, with fear of
9:42
Speaker 4: the unknown or fear coming from trauma base where they
9:45
Speaker 4: had had their own experiences that they didn't want their
9:48
Speaker 4: children to experience, and that had such an impact in
9:52
Speaker 4: the connection that they were able to have with us
9:55
Speaker 4: as their children. So thank you so much for sharing that.
9:59
Speaker 2: I love that.
9:59
Speaker 3: Yeah, like this, this is confidence. The kids will figure
10:01
Speaker 3: it out. We're here to support them, but they'll figure
10:03
Speaker 3: it out and they'll find their own they'll find their
10:05
Speaker 3: own boundaries, they'll find their own way. So long as
10:07
Speaker 3: they know they can come to us and we're a safe,
10:08
Speaker 3: secure places. That's what I saw as I watched the
10:11
Speaker 3: way you guys were with your kids. Would that be
10:13
Speaker 3: a reasonable.
10:14
Speaker 2: Summation, Yeah, yeah, definitely Yeah.
10:17
Speaker 3: Okay, Hey, after break, we're gonna find out a couple
10:20
Speaker 3: more ins and outs of this free range parenting style,
10:23
Speaker 3: specifically the idea that it's not just letting the kids
10:25
Speaker 3: do whatever they want. There are still rules and expectations,
10:29
Speaker 3: and we'll find out exactly what this show has meant
10:32
Speaker 3: for Penny and Daniel where they do things in their family.
10:35
Speaker 1: It's their Happy Families podcast for.
10:38
Speaker 4: A happier family. Try a Happy Families membership, because a
10:41
Speaker 4: happy family doesn't just happen.
10:44
Speaker 3: Details at happy families dot com dot au.
10:47
Speaker 4: It's the Happy Families Podcast, the podcast with a time
10:50
Speaker 4: poor parent who just wants answers now. And today we
10:52
Speaker 4: are talking with the winners. The winners.
10:56
Speaker 5: Yeah, well you know what we're gonna I've got the
11:02
Speaker 5: crickets chirping while the crowds for I've pushed the wrong
11:04
Speaker 5: button from camping right that somebody stuck one of those
11:08
Speaker 5: the sleeping bag and brought it back.
11:10
Speaker 3: The crowd's gone wild.
11:11
Speaker 2: This radio detailing.
11:13
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's right. It's been a long time. I pushed
11:15
Speaker 3: the wrong buttons. I'm out of practice. So we're talking
11:18
Speaker 3: with Penny and Daniel, the winners of Sorry, the parenting
11:20
Speaker 3: style that was voted as the best in parental guidance?
11:22
Speaker 5: How's that?
11:23
Speaker 3: Is that a better way to say? I actually liked.
11:26
Speaker 4: The way they were. It was just this acknowledgement that
11:29
Speaker 4: you know, Australia was recognizing the way you guide your children.
11:32
Speaker 4: That's what I took from it. Yeah, you know, this
11:34
Speaker 4: opportunity for us to guide our children is so important.
11:36
Speaker 3: Also got a highlight from the very outset. No one
11:38
Speaker 3: was ever told that there was a prize, No one
11:40
Speaker 3: was Actually it was never really set up as a competition.
11:42
Speaker 3: It was set up as a conversation about parenting where
11:44
Speaker 3: we wanted to elevate good parenting and let people see
11:47
Speaker 3: more of it, which is why we had different rounds.
11:49
Speaker 3: But it wasn't until the very end that you guys
11:50
Speaker 3: even knew that there was going to be a family
11:51
Speaker 3: holiday on the line.
11:53
Speaker 2: Yeah that's right, Yeah, that's exactly right. And we certainly entered,
11:58
Speaker 2: you know, into the mix, not not thinking that it
12:01
Speaker 2: was a competition. By any stretch or or recognizing the
12:05
Speaker 2: best parenting style. We want to make that loud and clear.
12:10
Speaker 4: How has been on the show affected your parenting? Has
12:14
Speaker 4: it has changed, it changed anything?
12:17
Speaker 3: Like did you pick stuff up from the other parents
12:18
Speaker 3: and think, oh, we probably should do a bit more
12:20
Speaker 3: of that.
12:20
Speaker 2: Look. I think the big thing is that we saw
12:23
Speaker 2: so much value in each of the parents, and we
12:27
Speaker 2: could you know, we sort of think to ourself, Oh,
12:29
Speaker 2: routine amazing, Like, imagine, imagine if we could be more
12:32
Speaker 2: routine and more organized and have things ready that you know,
12:35
Speaker 2: before five minutes before we were meant to walk out
12:37
Speaker 2: the door. But when it comes down to the reality
12:41
Speaker 2: of our life, I just don't think that we could
12:44
Speaker 2: take it, take it on board or disciplined. You know,
12:47
Speaker 2: if we were more disciplined with the kids about you know,
12:50
Speaker 2: their their routines or their structures or going you know,
12:53
Speaker 2: going to sleep at a certain time, all these things,
12:55
Speaker 2: when no question, it would probably be better for our kids.
12:58
Speaker 2: But it's just not who and so it would be
13:01
Speaker 2: hard for us to, yeah, to take it on board.
13:03
Speaker 6: Yeah, we are a happy family, you know, we are
13:07
Speaker 6: very content with our day to day lives. So I
13:11
Speaker 6: think I think for us, you know, we're changing things dramatically,
13:15
Speaker 6: or trying to change things would go away from our
13:18
Speaker 6: natural parenting style.
13:20
Speaker 3: So I've got to dive in and just pick up
13:22
Speaker 3: on this one thing, because one thing that so many
13:24
Speaker 3: parents have said to me is the one problem that
13:26
Speaker 3: I've got with free range is the kids can do anything.
13:28
Speaker 3: But you've given a great example just a minute ago,
13:30
Speaker 3: Daniel of Well, if Julian wants to have an extra
13:33
Speaker 3: ice cream, but Dad, you're free range, I can do
13:36
Speaker 3: what I want. So you're okay with them climbing lamp
13:39
Speaker 3: posts and dancing on the dining table or whatever, but
13:42
Speaker 3: you still have some expectations around around what they're going
13:46
Speaker 3: to do, what's healthy for them, and that sort of thing.
13:47
Speaker 3: So what do you do when Julian says, come on, Dad,
13:50
Speaker 3: one more your free range, I want to have another
13:51
Speaker 3: ice cream. I want to stay up until one o'clock.
13:53
Speaker 6: Oh, we do exactly what every other parent would do.
13:56
Speaker 6: We'd explain that, no, you've had one already, you don't
13:59
Speaker 6: need a second one. And like every other parent would say,
14:02
Speaker 6: is that you know it's not healthy that you know,
14:05
Speaker 6: grab an apple, grab a healthy choice. Are you genuinely
14:07
Speaker 6: hungry or do you just want some more sugar. I'm
14:09
Speaker 6: sure we do what every other parent would do in
14:12
Speaker 6: that situation. But if Julian said, oh, Dad, I want
14:16
Speaker 6: to go outside and go for a swim, and it's
14:19
Speaker 6: you know, we'd probably go here, go for it, mate,
14:21
Speaker 6: if that's what you want to said one to go
14:23
Speaker 6: out and ride his mountain bike up and down the street. Like,
14:27
Speaker 6: there's things that we'd allow them to do that you
14:31
Speaker 6: know what, we can see it's in their best interest.
14:34
Speaker 6: If it's not in their best interest, we'll always intervene
14:37
Speaker 6: and talk them through it and explain what we think.
14:40
Speaker 6: But again, the rule that the thing, the rules that
14:44
Speaker 6: are such are around things that you would explt we
14:48
Speaker 6: we don't just let them meet what they want. We
14:50
Speaker 6: don't let them free rates.
14:52
Speaker 3: Isn't no rules and and that's what we try to
14:54
Speaker 3: get across in the show. It's not no rules.
14:56
Speaker 2: Well do you know what? It's no rules in that
14:59
Speaker 2: nothing is set in places of rule, everything really can
15:02
Speaker 2: be questioned. So if you want an extra ice block,
15:05
Speaker 2: talk to me about the reasons. You know, we'll talk
15:08
Speaker 2: about that. You know, if you can sort of say,
15:10
Speaker 2: you know, I beat these and all these other things,
15:12
Speaker 2: and you can explain to me. And our kids are
15:14
Speaker 2: very good arguers. They're very good negotiators, aren't they.
15:19
Speaker 3: Yeah. I love that because if I need an extra
15:22
Speaker 3: ice cream, I'm going to say to Kylie, when you
15:24
Speaker 3: look at what my diet's been across the week, Yeah, yeah,
15:27
Speaker 3: when you look at it holistically, my diet's been really
15:29
Speaker 3: good this week. And tonight I'm just going to tonight.
15:31
Speaker 3: I just want to go for it.
15:32
Speaker 2: I just need that second ice block. And you know what,
15:34
Speaker 2: that's probably going to be. Okay, it's not going to
15:36
Speaker 2: be the end of the world. You have that second
15:37
Speaker 2: ice plot I have.
15:38
Speaker 3: None of the kids are listening right now.
15:42
Speaker 4: We could keep talking to you guys for hours.
15:44
Speaker 3: It's fun.
15:44
Speaker 4: It's been so much fun getting to know you a
15:46
Speaker 4: little bit better. And you are definitely the family that
15:50
Speaker 4: comes up in our dinner conversations. Yeah, mos nights. At
15:53
Speaker 4: the moment, the kids have been really, really enjoying.
15:57
Speaker 3: Well, Dad, Daniel and Penny had let us do it well,
15:59
Speaker 3: won't you. I know, I'll tell it. No, we get
16:03
Speaker 3: to have the autonomy supportive conversation. We'll tell us more.
16:08
Speaker 4: As we wrap things up. I'm wondering whether or not
16:11
Speaker 4: you felt like this experience has actually strengthened your family.
16:14
Speaker 4: What have you taken away from this whole experience.
16:18
Speaker 6: Yeah, I think absolutely. I think I think if you
16:22
Speaker 6: summarize the time we spent together through the camping trip,
16:25
Speaker 6: through the house, even through filming, and even sitting on
16:32
Speaker 6: the lounge watching the show together, you know, the laughs,
16:36
Speaker 6: the the cheers, and the it's just it's brought us
16:42
Speaker 6: together in a way where I think there's more more respect,
16:48
Speaker 6: but more more appreciation from both sides. We certainly look
16:52
Speaker 6: at our kids and go, wow, we're really lucky and
16:56
Speaker 6: they're beautiful kids, and we're so proud, and I think
16:58
Speaker 6: they look back and go, we've got some cool parents
17:01
Speaker 6: and we can sort of see what they're trying to
17:03
Speaker 6: do here. So yeah, I think that's that's strengthened In
17:07
Speaker 6: the last sort of you know, six weeks.
17:10
Speaker 2: I don't think you ever really get the chance as
17:12
Speaker 2: we've had to step outside of your situation and look
17:17
Speaker 2: in look back in on it. And so that's what
17:20
Speaker 2: I found amazing to be a part of this experience,
17:23
Speaker 2: because you when you you know, down in the trenches
17:25
Speaker 2: with your kids every day. You don't, you don't appreciate
17:28
Speaker 2: some of the things that that we've had the chance
17:31
Speaker 2: to experience.
17:33
Speaker 6: Like all parents, you do think you're doing a ship
17:36
Speaker 6: job and you think your kids are ship and everyone thinks,
17:38
Speaker 6: you know, like everyone's really hard on themselves. But I
17:41
Speaker 6: think this is this yeah, and I think for all parents.
17:44
Speaker 6: And I said this in one of one of the interviews,
17:46
Speaker 6: is that if you're watching the show and they said,
17:48
Speaker 6: what do you think parents will get out of this show?
17:50
Speaker 6: I think I think honestly, most parents should finish this
17:52
Speaker 6: three weeks and go, you know, feel good about themselves.
17:56
Speaker 3: We're doing lokay job.
17:58
Speaker 2: We doing a job. Look at look at the good
18:01
Speaker 2: enough parenting. I always like to say, just good enough.
18:05
Speaker 3: Well we We're so grateful Penny and Daniel for you
18:08
Speaker 3: taking some time out to chat with us about your
18:11
Speaker 3: reasons for celebration, your wonderful family, and the experience you've
18:14
Speaker 3: had on parenial guidance. Thanks for joining us on the
18:16
Speaker 3: Happy Families podcast. Thanks so much, good and congratulations. The
18:20
Speaker 3: Happy Family's podcast is produced by Justin Ruland from Bridge Media.
18:23
Speaker 3: Craig Bruce is our executive producer and if you'd like
18:25
Speaker 3: more information about making your family happier, you can listen
18:27
Speaker 3: to Penny and Daniel all day or check out our website.
18:31
Speaker 3: Because a happy family doesn't just happen. Details at happy
18:34
Speaker 3: families dot com dot au