Latest / The Lone Gunman Podcast : JFK Assassination / JFK ASSASSINATION - Ep. 394 - Did He Go To Mexico? Pt.3

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JFK ASSASSINATION - Ep. 394 - Did He Go To Mexico? Pt.3 · The Lone Gunman Podcast : JFK Assassination

• 0:04
  Speaker 1: What what what.
• 0:10
  Speaker 2: H repent of any sage's juice to get up the
• 0:30
  Speaker 2: true down a rabble brother, Junislam, David Barry Rude being
• 0:37
  Speaker 2: the st.
• 0:37
  Speaker 3: Foods in the pure a whennessy, it's raining, nice ship,
• 0:44
  Speaker 3: the life stopping result side never been ridden, the basting
• 0:51
  Speaker 3: You and.
• 0:53
  Speaker 4: Sto re free of from juice.
• 1:22
  Speaker 5: And here we go. That's right, Here we go, Joe,
• 1:37
  Speaker 5: Here we go, Joe. So what's what's the scenario?
• 1:40
  Speaker 6: Oh? Keep it going, keep it going.
• 1:43
  Speaker 5: It's a four year time, sir.
• 1:46
  Speaker 6: Oh, I thought you were uh what's called.
• 1:52
  Speaker 5: Noa b ja Yeah, tribe called quest google that No.
• 1:59
  Speaker 6: I I I know a few of their songs. I
• 2:02
  Speaker 6: thought you were just spitting out the rhymes off the
• 2:04
  Speaker 6: top of your head.
• 2:05
  Speaker 5: You know. No, no, no, not tonight. What's up everybody.
• 2:10
  Speaker 5: It's Friday night. It's the Ongoming Podcast. It's episode three
• 2:13
  Speaker 5: and ninety four, and this is part three of did
• 2:19
  Speaker 5: He Go to Mexico? Was Oswald in Mexico? We're going
• 2:24
  Speaker 5: to uh take a look at some more key players
• 2:28
  Speaker 5: in the scenario this evening, some interesting figures that hopefully
• 2:34
  Speaker 5: can help us shed a little light and help us
• 2:36
  Speaker 5: answer that question. Joe, Yeah, ef and go or or what?
• 2:42
  Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, I mean they're uh, you're forcing me to
• 2:46
  Speaker 6: give an answer. I'm gonna say it to the end.
• 2:49
  Speaker 5: Yes, I make If Joe sits on that fifth night,
• 2:52
  Speaker 5: I'm gonna knock his ass off one way or the other.
• 2:54
  Speaker 6: Okay half spoiler alert, I am not.
• 2:58
  Speaker 5: Going to okay the show. The show went on in
• 3:01
  Speaker 5: until Joe Joe lands on one sidurday the other.
• 3:05
  Speaker 7: Yeah, uh, well south to West. I just had a
• 3:09
  Speaker 7: common highlighted and excellently took it off. Gets the gold again,
• 3:14
  Speaker 7: wracking out more gold than USA hockey man, mister Jack
• 3:19
  Speaker 7: Taylor with the silver and mister Derek Schwinderman.
• 3:26
  Speaker 6: Mister I said it right.
• 3:30
  Speaker 5: He was.
• 3:32
  Speaker 6: To be spat. I'm just kidding, Uh, mister Tray, what's up?
• 3:42
  Speaker 6: Mister Mike Leberman And I'll check in as soon as
• 3:49
  Speaker 6: I can. Oldest boys birthday, Well, family whis comes first.
• 3:52
  Speaker 6: You know we we respect the replay.
• 3:55
  Speaker 5: Crew to the boy.
• 3:57
  Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, I hope, I hope you have a nice time.
• 4:04
  Speaker 6: Zandar Hello, howdy howdy, Uh, Claudinate and you Dene's andw
• 4:13
  Speaker 6: Dean says that she is back and wishing all of
• 4:15
  Speaker 6: her friends a good evening and drink more Loan Stars.
• 4:18
  Speaker 5: Yes, uh you keep taking that mini screwed up and
• 4:22
  Speaker 5: U dene and now keep drinking Loan Stars. Eventually we'll get.
• 4:26
  Speaker 6: There and the tea bizz is up in the house.
• 4:31
  Speaker 5: But t F I F yeah maybe, Thank fuck it's Friday.
• 4:40
  Speaker 6: Okay, I was wondering if it was the type or not.
• 4:43
  Speaker 6: But all good.
• 4:43
  Speaker 5: Oh no, that's not a typo. That's a declaration of independence. Baby,
• 4:49
  Speaker 5: I respect it.
• 4:50
  Speaker 6: Evening everyone to start Owen Smith, how are you, sir?
• 4:53
  Speaker 6: And of course the double B what do you believe?
• 4:59
  Speaker 5: BB?
• 5:00
  Speaker 6: Happy Friday. Hopefully your Friday is going well. Mister Jason Selman,
• 5:09
  Speaker 6: Hello from Canada. Long time, no see, missed you guys.
• 5:14
  Speaker 5: And Brandon no more sending me broke back Mountain text. Dude,
• 5:20
  Speaker 5: I think you meant to send that one to Joe.
• 5:25
  Speaker 5: But Joe and a cowboy hat.
• 5:30
  Speaker 6: I wear one. I think I look good at it.
• 5:39
  Speaker 5: And speaking of Canada, Canadia, Canadia, I have some good
• 5:48
  Speaker 5: news and some.
• 5:49
  Speaker 6: Bad news in regards to the archives visit update. Mister
• 5:56
  Speaker 6: Paul blow is going to be joining us. Is that
• 6:01
  Speaker 6: the good of the bad news? Rough news? It is
• 6:07
  Speaker 6: my advanced requests were denied. Oh so I have to
• 6:14
  Speaker 6: now go back over this weekend.
• 6:16
  Speaker 5: And you and Paul can sit there with your d's
• 6:19
  Speaker 5: and your hands together.
• 6:26
  Speaker 6: Well, one of my requests was just anything on Wanda Martin,
• 6:31
  Speaker 6: James Herbert Martin. I didn't have like the box numbers
• 6:34
  Speaker 6: for that, but I had box numbers for everything else,
• 6:37
  Speaker 6: and then I did die circuit. So I don't know
• 6:39
  Speaker 6: if they're just they're difficult, let's put it that way,
• 6:43
  Speaker 6: and it's not, but it is by design, right, So
• 6:50
  Speaker 6: we're gonna have to get back at that. Jack, what up?
• 6:56
  Speaker 6: Let's going on?
• 6:57
  Speaker 5: Miss Jason's comment?
• 6:59
  Speaker 6: Oh what? I what did I mess? Here?
• 7:01
  Speaker 5: He was in the movie Broke Back Mountain?
• 7:04
  Speaker 6: Stop it go back? Okay, hold on, okay, I'm definitely missy.
• 7:17
  Speaker 6: Oh did I get that far?
• 7:18
  Speaker 5: Yeah?
• 7:20
  Speaker 6: Yeah, I don't think I got that far.
• 7:24
  Speaker 5: You had it up on the screen.
• 7:25
  Speaker 6: Oh sheesh, here it is okay, thank you, sir.
• 7:44
  Speaker 5: This is a safe space to say that I was
• 7:46
  Speaker 5: in Broke Back Mountain. The appropriate comment, Brandon when you
• 7:51
  Speaker 5: say something like that at the end of it, just
• 7:53
  Speaker 5: putting no home up. Okay, we'll still be on that.
• 8:01
  Speaker 5: What part did you play? Jason? I'm afraid to ask.
• 8:08
  Speaker 1: All right, back to Greg, Yes, Scott Edwards, we said
• 8:13
  Speaker 1: hi to Greg, Greg the d Dubs, Happy Friday with uh,
• 8:19
  Speaker 1: buddy packer Jack in the house.
• 8:22
  Speaker 5: Oho, what's up? You need to get your back on
• 8:25
  Speaker 5: the show here soon? So we do we do? Yes,
• 8:30
  Speaker 5: we need a Lauren Hall follow up, Yes, we do
• 8:33
  Speaker 5: for sure, miss And who was it? We determined was
• 8:38
  Speaker 5: dB Cooper Joe recently.
• 8:43
  Speaker 6: We didn't determine anything. Oh, we talked, We talked about.
• 8:48
  Speaker 5: A suspect, but we had a good suspect, Buell Frasier.
• 8:53
  Speaker 5: That was it. He was in Washington in nineteen seventy one,
• 8:59
  Speaker 5: just saying, John, we'll look into it. Well, any work
• 9:03
  Speaker 5: for Boeing. You can have all that plutonium shit on
• 9:06
  Speaker 5: a tie, saying.
• 9:11
  Speaker 6: I forgot about that.
• 9:12
  Speaker 5: It kind of looks like the picture of you have
• 9:14
  Speaker 5: some single ass just saying nobody want to look into it?
• 9:18
  Speaker 6: Yeah? Uh, all right, and that is it. So all right,
• 9:24
  Speaker 6: let's get into it. We're gonna get into some other
• 9:27
  Speaker 6: characters in the Mexico City story who allegedly saw Oswalt
• 9:32
  Speaker 6: or didn't see Oswalt.
• 9:33
  Speaker 5: And Vianna going to do that. In fact, Joe the
• 9:39
  Speaker 5: first one on did do get here? I have to
• 9:42
  Speaker 5: talk about with everybody. Here is Gilberto Polycarpo Lopez.
• 9:52
  Speaker 6: All right, all right, please explain who this Skufusa is.
• 9:55
  Speaker 5: For the idea I'm going to and I'm gonna show
• 9:57
  Speaker 5: you a picture because this is one cool looking motherfucker. Okay,
• 10:03
  Speaker 5: check him out. This is the only known photograph of
• 10:08
  Speaker 5: Gilberto Polycarpo Lopez. And it was taken at the border, Joe, okay,
• 10:17
  Speaker 5: because they said he looked suspicious.
• 10:22
  Speaker 6: I can't argue with that.
• 10:23
  Speaker 5: And it was the day after the assassination, okay, and
• 10:30
  Speaker 5: he's going into Mexico to go to Cuba. All right,
• 10:36
  Speaker 5: but uh that's not all that makes this guy a
• 10:38
  Speaker 5: little suspect. He got uh some special treatment if you will,
• 10:45
  Speaker 5: that old Lee Harvey Oswald was looking for. And I'm
• 10:48
  Speaker 5: not talking about d w Old Cooper. Hey, you can't
• 10:56
  Speaker 5: make this stuff up. So again, Gilberto Polycarpo Lopez was
• 11:06
  Speaker 5: actually in Miami on November eighteenth, when the first assassination
• 11:14
  Speaker 5: attempt at Miami against Kennedy got averted. Okay, very sus Yes,
• 11:21
  Speaker 5: there is an old TLG podcast on Gibbelt there Gilberto,
• 11:26
  Speaker 5: and he was also in the Fair Play for Cuba Committee.
• 11:29
  Speaker 5: Joe really really in Miami? Yes, yes, and he was
• 11:40
  Speaker 5: twenty three years old in nineteen sixty three.
• 11:44
  Speaker 6: How how did they think it was a good idea
• 11:50
  Speaker 6: to have a chapter in Miami if they gave leave
• 11:53
  Speaker 6: her Lee Harvey Houswold shit. But opening one in New
• 11:56
  Speaker 6: Orleans Miami would seem to be the worst place to
• 12:00
  Speaker 6: have one.
• 12:01
  Speaker 5: Well, he didn't create one, He's just part of, you know,
• 12:05
  Speaker 5: the one in Miami, right, you know. And the thing
• 12:10
  Speaker 5: is that he left He left Cuba. Let's see. I
• 12:16
  Speaker 5: believe it was in nineteen sixty to avoid being drafted
• 12:20
  Speaker 5: into the military, and he eventually became a US citizen.
• 12:24
  Speaker 5: But by nineteen sixty three, for some reason, his mentality changed.
• 12:29
  Speaker 5: He joins the Fair Play for Cuba Committee, and he's
• 12:32
  Speaker 5: desperate to go back to Cuba, and he just happens
• 12:37
  Speaker 5: to want to get out of the United States the
• 12:38
  Speaker 5: day after the assassination. Is this just bad timing on
• 12:42
  Speaker 5: his part, I don't know, or is it.
• 12:47
  Speaker 6: The continuing operation to discredit the FPCC.
• 12:52
  Speaker 5: Yeah, both assault favor right before the assassination from the
• 12:56
  Speaker 5: Castro regime. Both had recently applied for Cuban visas, and
• 13:00
  Speaker 5: we're both denied. Both had fought with their wives and
• 13:05
  Speaker 5: were living alone again. He was one year younger than Oswald.
• 13:13
  Speaker 6: Okay, young guy.
• 13:16
  Speaker 5: Not much is known about this guy, right, because.
• 13:22
  Speaker 6: Let's see.
• 13:25
  Speaker 5: In fact a couple. Yeah, he'd been in Tampa four
• 13:28
  Speaker 5: days earlier, was in was in Texas. We don't know
• 13:30
  Speaker 5: exactly where the day of the assassination, but he was
• 13:35
  Speaker 5: in Texas.
• 13:36
  Speaker 6: He was in Texas.
• 13:37
  Speaker 5: Yeah, we don't know exactly where, though. The obvious significance
• 13:44
  Speaker 5: of this was that Lopez might be fleeing the country
• 13:47
  Speaker 5: for some reason. According to author named James Johnston in
• 13:52
  Speaker 5: his book Murder inc The CIA under John F. Kennedy
• 13:57
  Speaker 5: h pointing to his strange travel from Tampa to Texas,
• 14:01
  Speaker 5: to Mexico to Havana born in Cuba. Yeah, and the
• 14:07
  Speaker 5: week leading up to Kenny's death, Lopez shouted the president
• 14:11
  Speaker 5: jetting to Tampa on November eighteenth for the first leg
• 14:13
  Speaker 5: of the tour. Then he waited for an important call
• 14:17
  Speaker 5: from Cuba giving him the go ahead order to leave
• 14:19
  Speaker 5: the US and go back to the island nation, a
• 14:22
  Speaker 5: source in Tampa told investigators, But the call never came
• 14:28
  Speaker 5: and Lopez departed that night on the or the next
• 14:30
  Speaker 5: day for Texas, and just days later JFK flew to
• 14:35
  Speaker 5: Texas and eventually met his fate in an open air motorcade.
• 14:39
  Speaker 5: No one knows what Lopez did in Texas or where
• 14:41
  Speaker 5: he was in Texas, but at midnight on the same
• 14:45
  Speaker 5: day JFK was killed, he showed up at the Mexican
• 14:48
  Speaker 5: border in Nuevo Laredo, then made his way to Mexico City, Hello,
• 14:55
  Speaker 5: presumably by bus. Hello. Just one month earlier, uh Oswald
• 15:04
  Speaker 5: had made this same trip via the same way, apparently
• 15:10
  Speaker 5: to the same place. Apparently Mexican Order. Mexican border agents
• 15:17
  Speaker 5: viewed Lopez as suspicious and snapped the only known photo
• 15:20
  Speaker 5: of him wearing sunglasses at night. Again, this picture was
• 15:26
  Speaker 5: taken at night. Where my sun glasses at night? So high?
• 15:34
  Speaker 6: Can Yeah, maybe trying to conceal his identity would be
• 15:38
  Speaker 6: the obvious reason.
• 15:39
  Speaker 5: Obviously you that he was really really high one of
• 15:44
  Speaker 5: the two. Mm hmm, that's the only reason you wear
• 15:47
  Speaker 5: sunglasses at night. Uh The SATTI station chief in Mexico
• 15:54
  Speaker 5: City and Mexican authorities were aware of the recent allegation
• 15:58
  Speaker 5: that Lopez had been involved in the assassination and the
• 16:01
  Speaker 5: allegation was unresolved. At this point, the CIA had flagged
• 16:05
  Speaker 5: Lopez as a possible suspect in the assassination plot, writes Johnston,
• 16:14
  Speaker 5: who wrote this book, who was a lawyer on a
• 16:18
  Speaker 5: nineteen seventies Senate committee investigating links between CIA hits and
• 16:22
  Speaker 5: Kennedy's death. Most likely the church committee in Mexico City
• 16:27
  Speaker 5: where Lopez apparently obtained a Cuban visa. Now, remember Oswald
• 16:35
  Speaker 5: asked for one of these, and they told him to
• 16:37
  Speaker 5: go fuck go pound saying right, they gave this guy
• 16:43
  Speaker 5: Lopez a Cuban courtesy visa. Joe is what it's called.
• 16:51
  Speaker 5: And on November twenty seventh, he hopped on a Cubana
• 16:53
  Speaker 5: Airlines flight bound for Havana. The flight had waited hours
• 16:59
  Speaker 5: just for low Pez to arrive at the airport and
• 17:02
  Speaker 5: then hastily took off after he climbed a board, though
• 17:05
  Speaker 5: the Mexicans had tried to stall the plane but failed.
• 17:09
  Speaker 5: According to intelligence reports, Lopez was the only passenger on
• 17:13
  Speaker 5: board this Cubana Airline's flight to Cuba from Mexico City,
• 17:21
  Speaker 5: so apparently they x xfiltrated Lopez from Mexico City got me.
• 17:31
  Speaker 6: Never got to Cuba.
• 17:33
  Speaker 5: Yeah, he got to Cuba.
• 17:35
  Speaker 6: Oh he did, ok.
• 17:36
  Speaker 5: City, he was the only passenger on the Flighty Okay
• 17:41
  Speaker 5: do you even do you even watch the show? Joe?
• 17:44
  Speaker 6: Yeah? I was, I was on another tap mm hmm
• 17:48
  Speaker 6: Jesus Christ.
• 17:50
  Speaker 5: The CIA assigned the cryptonymic used for the assassination prob
• 17:54
  Speaker 5: GP floor to Lopez, but nothing much else was done
• 18:00
  Speaker 5: after that. Lopez just vanishes the CIA sentence files on
• 18:05
  Speaker 5: him to the FBI. The bureau didn't follow up and
• 18:08
  Speaker 5: failed to mension his name to the Warrant Commission, which
• 18:11
  Speaker 5: concluded Oswald had acted alone. A Senate committee later looked
• 18:15
  Speaker 5: into the allegations but could not prove a thing. Some
• 18:18
  Speaker 5: fifteen year or ten to fifteen years later, if the
• 18:22
  Speaker 5: commission had known about Gilberto Lopezz waiting for a phone
• 18:25
  Speaker 5: call from Cuba for his exfiltration about his visa, it
• 18:28
  Speaker 5: might have asked for records of all phone calls from Cuba,
• 18:31
  Speaker 5: since Oswald too was waiting to hear about his visa.
• 18:34
  Speaker 5: But Oswald was not given a Cuban courtesy visa. Interesting
• 18:43
  Speaker 5: authorities never pursued Lopez, despite the whole common belief that
• 18:47
  Speaker 5: Castro almost certainly knew that Kennedy wanted him dead, so
• 18:51
  Speaker 5: he acted first, possibly using Lopez's help. Lyndon Johnson believed
• 18:57
  Speaker 5: that Kennedy had run a damned murder ain't in the Caribbean,
• 19:02
  Speaker 5: given the Cuban strong man reason to retaliate. According to
• 19:07
  Speaker 5: an Atlantic article written by his former speechwriter, six months
• 19:10
  Speaker 5: after LBJ died, the CIA had allegedly recruited Chicago mobster
• 19:15
  Speaker 5: Johnny Rosselli as well as Rolando Cubela, a Castro arrival
• 19:20
  Speaker 5: from Cuba, to kill the dictator. And yet the conclusion
• 19:26
  Speaker 5: or the confusion that abounded from the top to the
• 19:28
  Speaker 5: bottom of the US government still doesn't explain why significant
• 19:31
  Speaker 5: leaves were never pursued. Again, the FBI didn't let the
• 19:35
  Speaker 5: Warrant Commission know about this guy, despite as many parallels
• 19:39
  Speaker 5: to Lee Harvey Oswald, despite his hasty extraction from Mexico
• 19:43
  Speaker 5: City via the Cuban government who gave him a Cuban
• 19:47
  Speaker 5: courtesy visa and got him the fuck out of there
• 19:50
  Speaker 5: in four days and flew the plane just for him
• 19:56
  Speaker 5: to get him out of there. So apparently you know
• 19:59
  Speaker 5: what Ozwa was asking for at the Cuban consulate and
• 20:02
  Speaker 5: in Mexico City was possible. But the difference is that
• 20:08
  Speaker 5: this guy was a Cuban national. He was born in Cuba.
• 20:13
  Speaker 5: He basically left to avoid being drafted and was allowed
• 20:19
  Speaker 5: to come back. But after that he vanishes off the
• 20:21
  Speaker 5: phase of the earth. Nobody else knows any more things
• 20:24
  Speaker 5: about him. Nobody ever interviews him, nobody ever finds him,
• 20:28
  Speaker 5: nobody ever nothing. I mean, there's just nothing on this guy.
• 20:33
  Speaker 5: So it's an interesting parallel to Oswald's a Mexico City trip,
• 20:38
  Speaker 5: if you will. That's why I wanted to bring it
• 20:41
  Speaker 5: up to kind of compare and contrast how Gilberto Lopez
• 20:45
  Speaker 5: was treated in Mexico versus Lee Harvey Oswald. It's a
• 20:48
  Speaker 5: very stark contrast. Even though gilbertro Lopez had changed his
• 20:55
  Speaker 5: ways after basically dodging the draft and Cuba and then
• 21:01
  Speaker 5: pledging his allegiance back to Fidel Castro via the Fair
• 21:04
  Speaker 5: Play for Cuba committee allegedly, and did he do something
• 21:09
  Speaker 5: in Dallas who knows, you know. But he's leaving Texas
• 21:14
  Speaker 5: the night of the twenty second, crossing the border wearing sunglasses,
• 21:18
  Speaker 5: looking all suspicious and shit, and then gets exfil traded
• 21:24
  Speaker 5: from Mexico City. But to Cuba, is the only pastor
• 21:27
  Speaker 5: on the plane, and then he just disappears off the
• 21:29
  Speaker 5: face of the air. The whole story suspect.
• 21:34
  Speaker 6: Never heard from again after never heard from again.
• 21:38
  Speaker 5: Wow. So I just thought that that was an interesting parallel,
• 21:44
  Speaker 5: you know, like I said, when you're looking at what
• 21:45
  Speaker 5: happened with to Lee allegedly in Mexico City and then
• 21:49
  Speaker 5: this guy, it's like, WHOA, what's the shit?
• 21:56
  Speaker 6: I don't know what to think. I was kind of
• 21:59
  Speaker 6: famil with this guy before he described him. Yeah, I mean,
• 22:05
  Speaker 6: I don't know what after three years in Miami, assuming
• 22:10
  Speaker 6: he's among the Cuban exile community, would have made him
• 22:14
  Speaker 6: join the FPCC and then be in Dallas and then
• 22:21
  Speaker 6: flee to Mexico City and then to Cuba. That's a problem.
• 22:26
  Speaker 5: Well, he must have really wanted to go back. He's obviously.
• 22:32
  Speaker 6: Pro castro, is he or is he pretending to be
• 22:38
  Speaker 6: pro castro?
• 22:40
  Speaker 5: Well, if he was just pretending, I doubt that the
• 22:43
  Speaker 5: Cuban government would have exiltrated him by himself on a
• 22:46
  Speaker 5: Cubana Airlines flight within a couple of days of him showing.
• 22:51
  Speaker 6: Up there, right, But the implications of that would that
• 22:55
  Speaker 6: would be that some pro Castrons were involved in the assassination.
• 23:05
  Speaker 5: This guy, this guy okay and Oswald possibly okay hmm.
• 23:18
  Speaker 5: Or could this guy have been in a second Patsy
• 23:21
  Speaker 5: had Oswald not worked out. I don't know.
• 23:24
  Speaker 6: That's that's another good point.
• 23:26
  Speaker 5: There's a lot of theories out there about this guy.
• 23:32
  Speaker 5: Wow says it was reported years ago that he was
• 23:36
  Speaker 5: friends with David Ferry. Well, imagine that. Everybody's friends with
• 23:39
  Speaker 5: David Ferry.
• 23:43
  Speaker 6: Friends with Jack.
• 23:45
  Speaker 5: He's a great guy, Joe, he was a great guy.
• 23:49
  Speaker 5: We all know that, Walter Hi. Wow. Yeah, So that's
• 23:55
  Speaker 5: Gilberto Polycarpo Lopez, a very not greatly known anecdote or
• 24:03
  Speaker 5: footnote in history, you know when it comes to all
• 24:05
  Speaker 5: this stuff. And like I said, you know, like you
• 24:08
  Speaker 5: didn't even know nothing about him. So no, very interesting dude.
• 24:13
  Speaker 5: So I'll kick it back to you. Joseph.
• 24:16
  Speaker 6: All right, let me get my tabs here, as that's
• 24:21
  Speaker 6: what I was doing. But you caught me off guard.
• 24:28
  Speaker 6: We are going to be talking about another Gilberto.
• 24:34
  Speaker 5: It's Bilbertha Night on the Lone Cooming podcast.
• 24:37
  Speaker 6: Yeah, you should have just named it a gilbert a night.
• 24:40
  Speaker 5: Shake you my rocket.
• 24:46
  Speaker 6: Gilberto Alvarado and before I bring up the PowerPoint. I'm
• 24:50
  Speaker 6: just gonna give a brief summary of this as I
• 24:52
  Speaker 6: go to my other screen here of this guy, and.
• 25:00
  Speaker 5: He was.
• 25:05
  Speaker 6: Gilberto Alvarado you gart there, and he was in Nicaraguay,
• 25:13
  Speaker 6: born man around nineteen forty date, not exactly known. Who
• 25:18
  Speaker 6: played a word, Joe, I know, Nicaragua. There we go,
• 25:24
  Speaker 6: who played a notable but ultimately a kind of discredited
• 25:31
  Speaker 6: role in the early instigations into Lee Harvey Oswalt's trip
• 25:37
  Speaker 6: to Mexico City. He was involved with the Frente de
• 25:46
  Speaker 6: Liberacion Nacionale the FLN, a gorilla group in Nicaragua inspired
• 25:51
  Speaker 6: by Fidel Castro's revolution. He also served as an FBI
• 25:57
  Speaker 6: in foremant and had Ta Or pretty much was a
• 26:02
  Speaker 6: Nicaragulan intelligence asset or agent under the right wing Samosa government.
• 26:10
  Speaker 6: In nineteen sixty three, his group sent him to Mexico
• 26:16
  Speaker 6: City hoping to secure entry to Cuba for sabotage training.
• 26:20
  Speaker 6: Here we go, another another person trying to get into Cuba.
• 26:26
  Speaker 6: On November twenty city. Yep, yeah, exactly. On November twenty six,
• 26:31
  Speaker 6: sixty three, that would be three days after the assassination.
• 26:35
  Speaker 6: He walked into the US embassy in Mexico City, and
• 26:38
  Speaker 6: claimed he witnessed Oswalt in the Cuban embassy around September eighteenth,
• 26:44
  Speaker 6: nineteen sixty three. Now I'm gonna stop there. September eighteenth,
• 26:51
  Speaker 6: nineteenth city early. That's the problem, as we'd like to say.
• 26:57
  Speaker 2: And.
• 27:00
  Speaker 6: That's why his story is almost discredited by everyone, even
• 27:05
  Speaker 6: the intelligence agencies. We're gonna get to some of those statements,
• 27:09
  Speaker 6: but the pretty much the key elements of his story.
• 27:12
  Speaker 6: He allegedly saw Oswald talking to a quote, red hairded
• 27:17
  Speaker 6: negro man, a Cuban or Cuban linked figure.
• 27:21
  Speaker 5: We called them red bone Joe South.
• 27:25
  Speaker 6: Oh, we just usually call them gingers. But I guess
• 27:29
  Speaker 6: I don't know about I've never seen a red haired
• 27:33
  Speaker 6: negro man, although there is one of the sixers, but
• 27:37
  Speaker 6: it's dyed and it's only half of them. His head.
• 27:42
  Speaker 6: Oswald supposedly said something like, you're not man enough. I
• 27:45
  Speaker 6: could do it, implying killing Kennedy claimed to have seen
• 27:51
  Speaker 6: money exchanged hands, roughly sixty five hundred dollars, which it
• 27:55
  Speaker 6: would have been like what like seventy grandish as payment
• 28:00
  Speaker 6: for the assassination, and he had said he had previously
• 28:04
  Speaker 6: tried to report it to the end embassy, but was dismissed.
• 28:11
  Speaker 6: He took a polygraph, he failed horribly.
• 28:15
  Speaker 5: That's the problem.
• 28:16
  Speaker 6: He admitted, he failed horribly, and he goes, well, the test,
• 28:21
  Speaker 6: the machine isn't wrong. That's a problem. We're going to
• 28:25
  Speaker 6: get there, I promise.
• 28:29
  Speaker 8: He was.
• 28:29
  Speaker 6: When under interrogation by Mexican police, he recanted, admitting the
• 28:35
  Speaker 6: story was fabricated to provoke US action against Castro. So
• 28:41
  Speaker 6: that's a big clue here when we talk about was
• 28:44
  Speaker 6: Oswalt in Mexico or was he impersonated? Was this trip
• 28:49
  Speaker 6: to provoke US action against Cuba? I think so.
• 29:00
  Speaker 5: Curtly fixed the bill.
• 29:01
  Speaker 6: Certainly fix the bill. He was detained, Uh all right,
• 29:09
  Speaker 6: he h his claims contributed to the temporary detention and
• 29:15
  Speaker 6: harsh questioning of Cylvia Duran. We'll also get to in
• 29:18
  Speaker 6: a little bit. We talked about her a little bit
• 29:20
  Speaker 6: on Wednesday. Uh. They in summary, he was kind of
• 29:28
  Speaker 6: a low level informant, asset type, but his story definitely
• 29:35
  Speaker 6: bears a little more inspection, if you will, so, let
• 29:41
  Speaker 6: me bring this up as yes, yeah, and Nika Roger
• 29:49
  Speaker 6: wanted that right, Can you can you add that.
• 29:57
  Speaker 5: There all time.
• 30:02
  Speaker 6: I'm on the chat, I'm on the layer section.
• 30:08
  Speaker 5: You're on a big black screen is what you're on?
• 30:18
  Speaker 6: All right, here we go. I don't know why because
• 30:20
  Speaker 6: this is page one of ten, so this is a
• 30:27
  Speaker 6: CIA document. Do not, I believe this is on the
• 30:32
  Speaker 6: twenty sixth or twenty seventh. Do not turn Alvarado over
• 30:37
  Speaker 6: to the Mexicans. We have officially asked od ENVY for
• 30:43
  Speaker 6: their position on this move, and, pending odnv's answer to
• 30:46
  Speaker 6: our final consideration, Alvarado should not be surfaced to the
• 30:51
  Speaker 6: Mexicans or turned over to them.
• 30:54
  Speaker 5: ODNVY is the FBI, right.
• 30:57
  Speaker 6: I believe so, So why would they not want google
• 31:05
  Speaker 6: that really quickly? Because I'm not one hundred percent sure
• 31:07
  Speaker 6: of that what od envy, but interesting that maybe, like
• 31:16
  Speaker 6: as we were talking about last episode the Mexico City,
• 31:20
  Speaker 6: they do not have their story straight right, So advise us.
• 31:27
  Speaker 6: If od ENVY in MESI attempts to get you to
• 31:31
  Speaker 6: act one way or the other on the question of
• 31:34
  Speaker 6: turning Alvarado over to the Mexicans, Please note the complicating
• 31:41
  Speaker 6: factor that Alvarado may be a nick agent too. That
• 31:45
  Speaker 6: would be Nicaragua, right MANA, Please advise its views we
• 31:51
  Speaker 6: agree earth the roid. It's an interesting pseudonym. Should go
• 32:01
  Speaker 6: to Mexi and be reachable at the Nicaraguan embassy, to
• 32:05
  Speaker 6: be at Mexican disposable.
• 32:07
  Speaker 5: I was right, it's FBI.
• 32:09
  Speaker 6: Okay, good, thank you, noe od Envy. FBI man Larry
• 32:15
  Speaker 6: Keenan now in Mexico, was sent especially to follow up
• 32:19
  Speaker 6: leads on entire assassination and please cooperate with him fully.
• 32:24
  Speaker 6: Right now we're going to yeah, because I did this
• 32:29
  Speaker 6: in date order like I always do, so this is
• 32:32
  Speaker 6: now the twenty ninth. Avarado claims that he was present
• 32:38
  Speaker 6: inside Cuban embassy when Oswalt was given five hundred dollars.
• 32:42
  Speaker 6: So again there's a problem with his date, and now
• 32:45
  Speaker 6: there's a problem with the amount of money.
• 32:50
  Speaker 5: Five hundred dollars ain't shit right.
• 32:54
  Speaker 6: The station requested we got to look up these We
• 32:58
  Speaker 6: should have probably looked up these kryptonomes uh ether Roid
• 33:03
  Speaker 6: one cooperation MESI through major durraws and if possible, sending
• 33:09
  Speaker 6: Etheroid three MESI E one, said Alvarado, and Mexi without Ethroid,
• 33:15
  Speaker 6: I think that's Mexican UH intelligence. If I had to
• 33:19
  Speaker 6: guess authority and based off suggestion used jurazz, but agreed
• 33:24
  Speaker 6: to mainately to send E three. Station agreed to pay
• 33:26
  Speaker 6: E three expenses. He's not on the process, Lubb. Even
• 33:29
  Speaker 6: though his story red GP floor, Rob, who was GP flour?
• 33:36
  Speaker 6: Was it was it? Did you say it was Lopez?
• 33:40
  Speaker 5: Yeah?
• 33:41
  Speaker 6: Okay, here we go. Even though his story regarding GP
• 33:49
  Speaker 6: Lopez may be false, it possible he has been working
• 33:55
  Speaker 6: other angle penetrate cubans and E three will be able
• 33:59
  Speaker 6: to assisted getting the fact street inspite MESI seven one
• 34:04
  Speaker 6: one three, believe it of value. E three travel to
• 34:09
  Speaker 6: Mexico and contact station officer about this case. And then
• 34:14
  Speaker 6: you have Gilberto Alvarado here in cursive on the bottom
• 34:18
  Speaker 6: right end of message. So this is interesting, Rob, because
• 34:23
  Speaker 6: when you said GP floor, my antennas went up because
• 34:27
  Speaker 6: I knew it would come up in one of the doctors.
• 34:29
  Speaker 5: Everything out there, Gilberto is mixed up. Who knows, really,
• 34:37
  Speaker 5: I don't know. I'm just throwing it out there.
• 34:39
  Speaker 6: I don't know. I just heard a something.
• 34:53
  Speaker 5: I was looking up at erythroid. See how kryptonim and
• 34:58
  Speaker 5: I get nothing. The it acts as an inflammatory factor
• 35:03
  Speaker 5: that Amelia Rates College introduced arthritis. Oh wow, yeah, I
• 35:10
  Speaker 5: don't know what's going on there.
• 35:12
  Speaker 6: It's not a Mary Ferrell. Do you want me to
• 35:17
  Speaker 6: go back, Joe?
• 35:19
  Speaker 5: It doesn't matter, Okay, okay, okay.
• 35:21
  Speaker 6: So this is another CI document talking about a lot
• 35:25
  Speaker 6: of One difference is that Alvarado failed to identify Sylvia
• 35:32
  Speaker 6: Duran from several photographs. This guy's full of shit that
• 35:38
  Speaker 6: l I Tempo showed him with. Station officer Alvocado did
• 35:41
  Speaker 6: not did well. Station officer Alvarado did identify her. I
• 35:46
  Speaker 6: don't know if that means interrogation continues. Alvarado has now
• 35:52
  Speaker 6: been suave, oh and friendly. Maybe they are the same
• 35:58
  Speaker 6: Gilbert does.
• 36:00
  Speaker 5: Who knows.
• 36:02
  Speaker 6: Alvarado has also claimed he here in nineteen he here,
• 36:07
  Speaker 6: I didn't read that wrong in nineteen sixty one on
• 36:09
  Speaker 6: a mission for Nicaraguan service, and give the same story
• 36:13
  Speaker 6: represent visit as he gave station, namely, he was awaiting
• 36:18
  Speaker 6: documentation as a Mexican to be furnished him by Cuban
• 36:23
  Speaker 6: authorities for a training mission in sabotage to Cuba. Above
• 36:28
  Speaker 6: brief Ali Tempo quote doubts story and will begin work
• 36:34
  Speaker 6: to quote break Alvarado. So again they know he's full
• 36:40
  Speaker 6: of shit pretty much right away. I think this is
• 36:44
  Speaker 6: even before the polygraph. I'm going to fast forward a
• 36:49
  Speaker 6: little bit to an HC interview with someone we've talked
• 36:53
  Speaker 6: about before, Rob Raymond Rocca read Alvarado. I guess he
• 36:58
  Speaker 6: was there or had some type of interaction with him,
• 37:02
  Speaker 6: according to mister Goldsmith, who was I guess an AGENCA person.
• 37:07
  Speaker 6: According to that polygraph result, Alvarado did not pass the polygraph,
• 37:11
  Speaker 6: And after being told that he did not pass the exam,
• 37:14
  Speaker 6: he essentially said, quote, the machine doesn't lie. Is this
• 37:18
  Speaker 6: a fair statement? That's correct? Rocus says, Is it fair
• 37:22
  Speaker 6: to say or appropriate to say that based upon that
• 37:26
  Speaker 6: the Alvarado allegation has been resolved so far as the
• 37:29
  Speaker 6: agency was concerned, If you know, I do not know, well,
• 37:35
  Speaker 6: mister goldmanth continues Goldsmith, were you told in sixty three
• 37:39
  Speaker 6: that Alvarado had made a statement about being offered money?
• 37:42
  Speaker 2: No?
• 37:43
  Speaker 6: No, And again, Rocca was kind of like the counter
• 37:48
  Speaker 6: intelligence liaison to the War Commission, right, Robert or something
• 37:52
  Speaker 6: like that. He had some type of rule like that.
• 37:56
  Speaker 6: He was high up.
• 37:58
  Speaker 5: Yeah, Roca was high up. Yeah.
• 38:00
  Speaker 6: And I believe he worked in the liaison type capacity.
• 38:04
  Speaker 6: I don't believe so, but okay. I was told solely
• 38:08
  Speaker 6: that he failed the polygraph, and that upon told that
• 38:11
  Speaker 6: he was being deceptive and that he had agreed. Is
• 38:14
  Speaker 6: basically the story I heard. This is hearsay now, but
• 38:17
  Speaker 6: it's not. It's not too far off what that says.
• 38:21
  Speaker 6: I see now. So he's saying it's hearsay, but then
• 38:24
  Speaker 6: he says the next sentence, it's not. Okay, mister Goldsmith.
• 38:29
  Speaker 6: Do you know whether his allegation that he was offered
• 38:31
  Speaker 6: money by someone was ever examined?
• 38:33
  Speaker 5: I do not know. I do not know that.
• 38:39
  Speaker 6: Now we are going to go to the next page.
• 38:55
  Speaker 6: An arb shout out Andrew Eiler, he'll love this final
• 39:00
  Speaker 6: determination notice re giberto Alverado, and this is just the
• 39:07
  Speaker 6: opening page, and it is regarding a CIA document or
• 39:15
  Speaker 6: about the cable on eleven twenty seven about Alvarado's story
• 39:19
  Speaker 6: after two installments, tends to prove that he has only
• 39:23
  Speaker 6: been in Cuban embassy and knows some of the employees
• 39:26
  Speaker 6: by sight or name or both. Alverado's story I just
• 39:30
  Speaker 6: clipped part of the document because the rest was irrelevant.
• 39:34
  Speaker 6: After two installments, tends proved that he had been in
• 39:36
  Speaker 6: Cuban embassy and knows some of the employees, but nothing more.
• 39:42
  Speaker 6: So let's get rid of this now. I'm sorry. So essentially,
• 39:56
  Speaker 6: Alverado's story is bullshit about Oswalt receiving money to assassinate
• 40:02
  Speaker 6: President Kennedy, and I believe we have I believe we
• 40:06
  Speaker 6: have some.
• 40:08
  Speaker 5: Yeah, brand gifted five memberships. Congratulations to Decks, Matt, Cammy, Steven,
• 40:16
  Speaker 5: and TWG enjoy your memberships and thank you Brandon for that.
• 40:24
  Speaker 5: And then another David Faarri Shualu to Mike the library
• 40:29
  Speaker 5: man in honor of the birthday boy. Happy birthday. Thank
• 40:34
  Speaker 5: you Mike, appreciate it, brother.
• 40:36
  Speaker 6: And and Rob. We might need one more because my
• 40:41
  Speaker 6: mom is now a spook.
• 40:46
  Speaker 5: You couldn't get your mom to be a covert operator.
• 40:48
  Speaker 6: Or I don't know if I want I don't know
• 40:50
  Speaker 6: if I want her to. Man, she thought she needed
• 40:53
  Speaker 6: to sign up to comment.
• 40:57
  Speaker 5: You should have. Just give me your card and Rob'll
• 40:59
  Speaker 5: do it for you. I didn't know it recurring recurring.
• 41:04
  Speaker 6: I didn't know it till after like super Spy, after
• 41:07
  Speaker 6: like two days after when I or when I went
• 41:09
  Speaker 6: out to dinner with her Tuesday, which is why I
• 41:12
  Speaker 6: missed the book review.
• 41:13
  Speaker 5: All you really want your mom to get the dave
• 41:15
  Speaker 5: very salute. Here you go. I guess why not, Mama Barelli?
• 41:24
  Speaker 6: Yes he was James, Yes he was. One might argue
• 41:31
  Speaker 6: he was maybe more competent than Angleton.
• 41:37
  Speaker 5: He definitely knew how to answer. Yeah, very confusedly.
• 41:43
  Speaker 6: Yeah, of course they all answer that way, right, you know.
• 41:48
  Speaker 6: I don't know. I don't know. I can't recall.
• 41:51
  Speaker 5: Maybe seems that way.
• 41:54
  Speaker 6: They they know how to deal with interrogation and question.
• 42:00
  Speaker 5: Should I take it that way?
• 42:03
  Speaker 6: But that's interesting with gp floor being Lopez. I don't know, man,
• 42:13
  Speaker 6: they could be the same person.
• 42:15
  Speaker 5: I don't know who knows.
• 42:17
  Speaker 6: I don't know. If we have a picture of Alvarado.
• 42:24
  Speaker 6: I don't think we do.
• 42:28
  Speaker 5: I don't know. The person who researched him should probably
• 42:32
  Speaker 5: see if you can find one.
• 42:36
  Speaker 6: I actually tried, not like super old.
• 42:40
  Speaker 5: Person who research Gilbert or Lopez found the only picture
• 42:43
  Speaker 5: ever taken of him with sunglasses on at night.
• 42:46
  Speaker 6: Here we go.
• 42:51
  Speaker 5: What's up, Dan, Welcome in, Welcome in?
• 42:56
  Speaker 6: What's up Dan? How's it going?
• 42:58
  Speaker 5: Slacking as usual?
• 43:00
  Speaker 6: Oh man? Oh wait, wait, we we do have one?
• 43:09
  Speaker 6: Oh from Spartacus.
• 43:12
  Speaker 5: Let me imagine that.
• 43:14
  Speaker 6: We do have one.
• 43:16
  Speaker 5: Let me.
• 43:24
  Speaker 6: Share this here.
• 43:31
  Speaker 5: Mhm okay, mm hmm, hold on, keep I already took
• 43:38
  Speaker 5: it away.
• 43:41
  Speaker 6: I've got I've got large and large.
• 43:44
  Speaker 5: I got hold on. We can do side by.
• 43:49
  Speaker 6: Side, side by side, that's what she suld.
• 43:54
  Speaker 5: Let me make this a little smaller. And I don't
• 44:00
  Speaker 5: think though, man, that dude's on the right Lopez got
• 44:05
  Speaker 5: any face.
• 44:10
  Speaker 6: Yeah, an Zeppe back in the day or something.
• 44:15
  Speaker 5: Different the mouth, Yeah, it's totally different. Not him.
• 44:21
  Speaker 6: Yeah, all right, Well, due diligence.
• 44:24
  Speaker 5: Done, due diligence. No.
• 44:33
  Speaker 6: Yeah, but interesting that GP floor is kind of mentioned
• 44:39
  Speaker 6: in in his documents, right. I guess it's all related
• 44:45
  Speaker 6: to Oswald in Mexico City, but still pretty interesting.
• 44:50
  Speaker 5: So another piece of the Mexico City puzzle, Joe. It
• 44:55
  Speaker 5: happens to take place with the guy that we know
• 44:58
  Speaker 5: all too well here on this show, and that would
• 45:01
  Speaker 5: be Richard case Miguel and his story of Mexico City
• 45:08
  Speaker 5: and Oswald is very interesting and I don't know if
• 45:12
  Speaker 5: we can believe it or not. Much like the other
• 45:16
  Speaker 5: three that we've heard tonight, but Richard case Miguel was
• 45:21
  Speaker 5: a war veteran who later admitted that to being a
• 45:24
  Speaker 5: double agent for the Russians and the United States. In
• 45:31
  Speaker 5: nineteen sixty three, Miguel penetrated a New Orleans cell of
• 45:35
  Speaker 5: Cuban exiles that wanted to assassinate Kennedy. According to him,
• 45:42
  Speaker 5: their plan was to make it look like Castro was
• 45:44
  Speaker 5: to blame. Sound familiar. Miguel said he told the kg
• 45:49
  Speaker 5: BE about the plot in Salad.
• 45:54
  Speaker 6: I was gonna say, tiny, uh, send me an email
• 45:57
  Speaker 6: about this talking about archives and Murph numbers and stuff
• 46:02
  Speaker 6: box numbers. Okay, she loves her, she loves her. Huh
• 46:12
  Speaker 6: looking at him, Yeah, tiny, yeah, So I'll have to
• 46:20
  Speaker 6: scan a lot of pages quick, five hundred and twenty
• 46:22
  Speaker 6: two pages. But I'm sorry, sir. Continue, great, Continue.
• 46:29
  Speaker 5: Miguel said he told the kg BE about the plot
• 46:31
  Speaker 5: and they ordered him to warn Lee Harvey Oswald. Miguel
• 46:35
  Speaker 5: also said he told the FBI and CIA about the plan,
• 46:37
  Speaker 5: which was unfolded in late September while Kennedy was on
• 46:41
  Speaker 5: the conservation tour. Then five days before, Kennedy was in
• 46:46
  Speaker 5: Grand Forks. I believe that's North Dakota. Richard Case. Neguel
• 46:51
  Speaker 5: walks into an El Paso, Texas bank, fires two shots
• 46:54
  Speaker 5: in the ceiling and waited to be arrested. His reason
• 46:58
  Speaker 5: was that he wanted to isolate himself from the murder.
• 47:02
  Speaker 5: Some credit, Miguel was subverting the September assassination attempt. Whether Kennedy. Oh,
• 47:14
  Speaker 5: I don't know if I'm offline or what or Joe
• 47:16
  Speaker 5: is anyway, I'll keep going. I will assume that I
• 47:24
  Speaker 5: am still live on the air. Maybe I'm not. Who knows?
• 47:30
  Speaker 5: Uh some credit? Okay, Yeah, we got that there are
• 47:38
  Speaker 5: fourteen cities on the tour and the crime could have
• 47:40
  Speaker 5: been carried out in any of them. While studying the
• 47:44
  Speaker 5: various assassination theories, researchers Gary Severson and John Williams discovered
• 47:50
  Speaker 5: three interesting links between North Dakota and Kennedy's assassin, Lee
• 47:54
  Speaker 5: Harvey Oswald. The first was a newspaper story released on
• 47:57
  Speaker 5: November twenty third, sixty three, the day after Kennedy was shot.
• 48:02
  Speaker 5: It had actually been written four years earlier. When UPI
• 48:04
  Speaker 5: reporter Aileen Moseby interviewed Oswald about his reasons for defecting
• 48:09
  Speaker 5: to the Soviet Union. I am a Marxist, Oswald told her.
• 48:14
  Speaker 5: I became interested about the age of fifteen. An old
• 48:18
  Speaker 5: lady handed me a pamphlet about saving the rosenbergs, I
• 48:22
  Speaker 5: still remember that pamphlet. I don't know why. And then
• 48:25
  Speaker 5: we moved to North Dakota, oswald said, and I discovered
• 48:29
  Speaker 5: one book in the library called dos Capital. It was
• 48:34
  Speaker 5: what I had been looking for my entire life. It
• 48:36
  Speaker 5: was like a very religious man opening the Bible for
• 48:39
  Speaker 5: the first time. When Moseby's story was presented to the
• 48:43
  Speaker 5: Warrant Commission, the words North Dakota had been changed to
• 48:45
  Speaker 5: New York or sorry to New Orleans. And there's no
• 48:49
  Speaker 5: clear explanation for this very weird who keeps changing comments.
• 49:00
  Speaker 5: If Joe's not here, I'm not doing it. What the
• 49:05
  Speaker 5: hell's going on here? Hmm, there's a ghost in the machine. Huh.
• 49:22
  Speaker 5: I don't know what the hell's going on? Interesting? Uh.
• 49:29
  Speaker 5: So let's get back to Neguel. So Richard Case. Neguel
• 49:43
  Speaker 5: claims that he met Oswalden at the Russian Embassy in
• 49:48
  Speaker 5: Los Angeles. I believe at some point what is going
• 49:53
  Speaker 5: on with this thing? And then again in Mexico City. Sorry,
• 50:10
  Speaker 5: I am I still live, folks. Let me know here
• 50:13
  Speaker 5: in the chat. Are you seeing Joe at all in
• 50:17
  Speaker 5: the chat? Or is it just me help a brother
• 50:23
  Speaker 5: out here? We are live? Is Joe here, do you
• 50:32
  Speaker 5: see Joe?
• 50:37
  Speaker 6: Just me?
• 50:38
  Speaker 5: Joe is gone. Well, somebody keeps highlighting comments and it's
• 50:42
  Speaker 5: not me. And according to the studio, Joe is not
• 50:47
  Speaker 5: in the studio, and according to this it says he's
• 50:49
  Speaker 5: off line. But somebody keeps highlighting comments and it's not me.
• 50:54
  Speaker 5: I don't know what the hell is going on here,
• 50:58
  Speaker 5: all right? Anyway, it's just another piece of the puzzle. So,
• 51:07
  Speaker 5: the whole Mexico City thing. And again, allegedly, in September
• 51:12
  Speaker 5: of sixty three, Richard case Neguel writes a letter to
• 51:16
  Speaker 5: the FBI j Edgar Hoover or yeah, j Edgar Hoover specifically,
• 51:24
  Speaker 5: and alleges to tell him about the plot and that
• 51:29
  Speaker 5: he's supposed to take out Lee Harvey Oswald. Now again
• 51:33
  Speaker 5: this letter never turns up. The FBI never knowledges getting it,
• 51:39
  Speaker 5: and the whole thing is so, you know, it was
• 51:52
  Speaker 5: Richard case Neguel just crazy like a fox? Or did
• 51:56
  Speaker 5: he really have some kind of knowledge about Oswalt in
• 52:00
  Speaker 5: the plot? Miguel Hydel, I don't know. I'm still not
• 52:05
  Speaker 5: one hundred percent either way on Richard kith Negil. Really
• 52:08
  Speaker 5: sometimes I think he's trayed me. I think he might
• 52:13
  Speaker 5: have known something very high.
• 52:18
  Speaker 6: Oh you did the time, you know, I was talking
• 52:21
  Speaker 6: to myself. I thought it was you because it said
• 52:24
  Speaker 6: on my laptop you were had internet issues. But I
• 52:28
  Speaker 6: guess it was me this time. So I'm sorry, guys.
• 52:31
  Speaker 6: I was like talking to myself for like ten minutes.
• 52:35
  Speaker 6: Pray continue, sir, back to you, Joe, what.
• 52:41
  Speaker 5: I'm done with? Richard and case Miguel, Back to you.
• 52:44
  Speaker 6: Oh man, I haven't seen oh man. All right, So
• 52:53
  Speaker 6: we know about Sylvia Duran right, who worked at the
• 52:57
  Speaker 6: Cuban Embassy.
• 52:59
  Speaker 5: Sexy Still.
• 53:02
  Speaker 6: She was not bad looking, for sure, and she was
• 53:12
  Speaker 6: arrested on by the behest of the CIA, I believe,
• 53:20
  Speaker 6: on the Saturday, November twenty third, nineteen sixty three. And
• 53:26
  Speaker 6: I was just going to read a little part of
• 53:30
  Speaker 6: what very esteemed researcher Peter Daniell Scott, and my shit
• 53:36
  Speaker 6: is lagging hard tonight. Man, I don't know what the
• 53:39
  Speaker 6: fuck's going on. I'm clicking on tabs and are not opening.
• 53:56
  Speaker 6: She was obviously a consulate she worked then I already
• 54:00
  Speaker 6: said that, all right, here we go, it's working a
• 54:07
  Speaker 6: little better. Let me share this now. Sorry, I don't
• 54:11
  Speaker 6: know what happened, man, But this is from the article
• 54:17
  Speaker 6: from Peter dill Scott, the CIA drug trafficking and OSWALT
• 54:22
  Speaker 6: in Mexico, So put this up on the screen alright.
• 54:43
  Speaker 6: So this part is a section one Sylvia Durand's manage story.
• 54:59
  Speaker 6: Loui Etcheveria, the Mexican Minister of oh Boy Gilbert Nacion,
• 55:07
  Speaker 6: told Winscott on November twenty third that Sylvia Durant had
• 55:12
  Speaker 6: given a quote written statement attesting to two visits by Oswalt.
• 55:17
  Speaker 6: According to the sequence of documents in Oswalt's to A
• 55:21
  Speaker 6: one file, no written statement from Duran's DFS interview reached
• 55:26
  Speaker 6: CIA headquarters until November twenty eighth, after Langley had asked
• 55:30
  Speaker 6: her the day before. This is, however, evidence that the
• 55:33
  Speaker 6: CIA HQ received a written Durand's statement not in the
• 55:37
  Speaker 6: Oswalt to A one file, from a back channel. Of course,
• 55:42
  Speaker 6: she had a ten page written statement that was made
• 55:47
  Speaker 6: under duress, which we'll get to. We're not going to
• 55:50
  Speaker 6: get to it, but we'll talk about it already. On
• 55:52
  Speaker 6: November twenty fourth, we find a cable from John scalso
• 55:55
  Speaker 6: at headquarters, who has already read it after quote analyzing
• 56:00
  Speaker 6: all the cable traffic and reading the statement of Sylvia Duran.
• 56:05
  Speaker 6: One important question still puzzles us. Even earlier. On November
• 56:10
  Speaker 6: twenty first, the CIA opined in a headquarters memo that
• 56:14
  Speaker 6: the seat to the FBI that Oswald probably wanted a
• 56:18
  Speaker 6: Soviet visa first, then a Cuban trans transit visa while
• 56:24
  Speaker 6: waiting for it. The memo added that, quote this is
• 56:28
  Speaker 6: also the conclusion reached by Sylvia Duran, the Mexican national
• 56:32
  Speaker 6: employee the Cuban M and C who dealt with Oswald
• 56:35
  Speaker 6: end quote. So that's interesting. Duran could indeed easily have
• 56:41
  Speaker 6: voiced this opinion, but there is nothing in the Oswald
• 56:44
  Speaker 6: to A one file that indicates how the CIA could
• 56:47
  Speaker 6: have known this. It seems likely that the ten page
• 56:51
  Speaker 6: written Duran's statement, sent on November twenty seventh, sixty three
• 56:57
  Speaker 6: was designed to replace an earlier suppressed statement referred to
• 57:01
  Speaker 6: in the CIA cable of November twenty third summarizing the
• 57:07
  Speaker 6: contents of the statement. That cable repeated the Phase one
• 57:10
  Speaker 6: allegation that Oswald said he was a quote communist and
• 57:13
  Speaker 6: admirer of Castro. But what the CIA found worthy of reporting.
• 57:17
  Speaker 6: On November twenty four third that Oswald said he was
• 57:20
  Speaker 6: a communist had disappeared from the November twenty six to
• 57:24
  Speaker 6: ten page statement as later to sub subsequent differing versions
• 57:31
  Speaker 6: of Duran's November twenty third interview. There are two phases.
• 57:41
  Speaker 6: Phase one is what Sylvia told the Cuban ambassador after
• 57:46
  Speaker 6: her release, that the DFS asked her if she had
• 57:51
  Speaker 6: personal relations and even if she was intimate a sexual
• 57:56
  Speaker 6: relationships with Oswald from whatever source. Rumors of a Duran
• 58:04
  Speaker 6: Oswald sexual relationship were soon floating through the US Embassy
• 58:09
  Speaker 6: in Mexico City in the first week after the assassination,
• 58:13
  Speaker 6: when they were heard by an FBI agent, Larry Keenan,
• 58:17
  Speaker 6: which Rob I believe was the guy we mentioned earlier,
• 58:21
  Speaker 6: who was who was sent down there right, yeah, who
• 58:25
  Speaker 6: had been sent down to Washington, sent down by Washington.
• 58:29
  Speaker 6: I'm sorry, so Cuban exile who was also a CIA agent,
• 58:34
  Speaker 6: Salvad R. Diaz Verson v er Son claimed to have
• 58:40
  Speaker 6: heard in the offices of the Mexico City newspaper Excelsir X,
• 58:47
  Speaker 6: I'm so bad this, EXCELLI Sir, on November twenty fifth,
• 58:52
  Speaker 6: that the DFS had learned from Duran that Oswald had
• 58:56
  Speaker 6: contacted Duran and had stayed in her home in Mexico's City.
• 59:03
  Speaker 6: So that's another problem too, right, because you have allegedly
• 59:08
  Speaker 6: the only evidence of him being there was that hotel registrar.
• 59:14
  Speaker 6: Right as late as sixty seven, Duran repeatedly told CIA
• 59:21
  Speaker 6: agent l I Ring three that in her November twenty
• 59:25
  Speaker 6: third no interrogation she had been interviewed thoroughly and beaten
• 59:30
  Speaker 6: until she had until she admitted she had an affair
• 59:34
  Speaker 6: with Oswalt, CI station's chief. When Scott later reported on
• 59:40
  Speaker 6: this Phase one allegation as a fact, the fact that
• 59:44
  Speaker 6: Sylvia Duran had sexual intercourse with Lee Harvey Oswalt on
• 59:48
  Speaker 6: several occasions when the latter was in Mexico City. A
• 59:52
  Speaker 6: decade later, Duran confirmed to the HSCA staff that she
• 59:57
  Speaker 6: had been questioned about sexual relations with Oswalt, which you
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 6: linked to the claim that we were communists and that
• 1:00:03
  Speaker 6: we were planning a revolution. All this is from the
• 1:00:08
  Speaker 6: Ngencia here. All the time, they tell me that I
• 1:00:11
  Speaker 6: was a communist, and they insisted that I was a
• 1:00:13
  Speaker 6: very important person for the Cuban government and that I
• 1:00:18
  Speaker 6: was the link for the international communists. The Cuban communists
• 1:00:22
  Speaker 6: the Mexican communists and the American communists, and that we
• 1:00:25
  Speaker 6: were going to kill Kennedy and I was the link
• 1:00:28
  Speaker 6: for them. I was very important, all right. So then
• 1:00:33
  Speaker 6: we're getting back to the blame the communists. Here we
• 1:00:37
  Speaker 6: shall see that the theory of an international communist assassination
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 6: conspiracy with the Oswald Duran relationship at its center, was
• 1:00:45
  Speaker 6: one propounded by Duran's cousin in law, Alena Garo de Paz,
• 1:00:50
  Speaker 6: who was already in the DFS. I believe Mexican custody.
• 1:00:55
  Speaker 6: Duran blamed her cousin for her arrest by the DFS,
• 1:01:00
  Speaker 6: and that is true. They were given her work address,
• 1:01:06
  Speaker 6: her home address, her telephone numbers, all her information for
• 1:01:11
  Speaker 6: whatever the details, there was a conspicuous contrast between the
• 1:01:18
  Speaker 6: phase one account of the November twenty third interview and
• 1:01:26
  Speaker 6: the November twenty fourth and the extent of the Phase
• 1:01:31
  Speaker 6: two accounts. None of the extent versions mentioned either a
• 1:01:36
  Speaker 6: conspiracy or a sexual relationship he had. A State Department
• 1:01:40
  Speaker 6: officer later told Secretary of State William Rogers they had
• 1:01:45
  Speaker 6: her from Deputy Chief of CIA Station Alan White. I
• 1:01:49
  Speaker 6: must have been the guy, under went Scott that the
• 1:01:52
  Speaker 6: DFS had indeed interrogated Sylvia Durant about the substance of
• 1:01:57
  Speaker 6: her cousin's allegations. The credibility of Duran of Duran of
• 1:02:02
  Speaker 6: the Duran allegations is still further complicated by the hints
• 1:02:06
  Speaker 6: and rumors explored by the Lopez Report that Sylvia Duran
• 1:02:11
  Speaker 6: may have been a source of information for either the
• 1:02:13
  Speaker 6: CIA or the Mexicans. So there's a lot going on here, Rob, Yeah,
• 1:02:26
  Speaker 6: a lot going on here. He goes into Alvarado and
• 1:02:31
  Speaker 6: how his story is as well managed, and it kind
• 1:02:35
  Speaker 6: of goes back to what we touched on in the
• 1:02:37
  Speaker 6: first episode and how they're trying to tie together the
• 1:02:42
  Speaker 6: story and in some cases by force, right, in some
• 1:02:47
  Speaker 6: cases by lying or whatever. So I mean, that's all
• 1:02:58
  Speaker 6: I had. I mean, you know, there's a bunch of
• 1:03:00
  Speaker 6: stuff in Sylvia Durant's TUA one file. We we could
• 1:03:04
  Speaker 6: read the ten page a revised Phase two is what
• 1:03:10
  Speaker 6: Peter Dell's gott calls it report. But it was done
• 1:03:15
  Speaker 6: under duress, so I don't put much credits to it, Rob,
• 1:03:27
  Speaker 6: And yeah, I guess I'll throw it back to you
• 1:03:30
  Speaker 6: if you if you don't have anything else, and then
• 1:03:31
  Speaker 6: we or we'll get into our final thoughts.
• 1:03:36
  Speaker 5: Yeah. Now, back in the time of the HSCA, you know,
• 1:03:44
  Speaker 5: there was a lot of questioning about this whole Mexico
• 1:03:48
  Speaker 5: City thing. You know, they were really really trying to
• 1:03:51
  Speaker 5: get to the bottom of it because the FBI had
• 1:03:53
  Speaker 5: fucked it, fucked up so bad for the Warrant Commission,
• 1:03:57
  Speaker 5: nobody knew whether to make heads or tails out of it, right,
• 1:04:01
  Speaker 5: so they basically went back and started from scratch. Hence
• 1:04:05
  Speaker 5: the Lopez Report, Hence all of these interviews with Sylvia Duran,
• 1:04:10
  Speaker 5: William Coleman, a bunch of these other assets, the Tarra Saws,
• 1:04:14
  Speaker 5: David Ally Phillips, you know, the whole nine and part
• 1:04:21
  Speaker 5: of going back in time and trying to figure out
• 1:04:29
  Speaker 5: what exactly happened, you know, you come across a lot
• 1:04:33
  Speaker 5: of anomalies in the story, such as this one. Joe,
• 1:04:41
  Speaker 5: we referred to it as the fourteen minute gap. Oh yes,
• 1:04:48
  Speaker 5: So less than twenty four hours after the assassination, Hoover
• 1:04:52
  Speaker 5: reported to Johnson on the state of the investigation, noting
• 1:04:55
  Speaker 5: that evidence against Oswald is not very strong. Hoover reported
• 1:05:00
  Speaker 5: on the tracing of the rifle to an alias of
• 1:05:02
  Speaker 5: Oswald and other details implicating him in the shooting. And
• 1:05:06
  Speaker 5: this was at ten am on September I'm sorry, November
• 1:05:09
  Speaker 5: twenty third, ten am, less than twenty four hours after
• 1:05:13
  Speaker 5: the shooting, is when this phone call took place. LBJ asked,
• 1:05:18
  Speaker 5: have you established any more about the visit to the
• 1:05:20
  Speaker 5: Soviet embassy in Mexico in September, an event of little
• 1:05:24
  Speaker 5: or no interest to the inner circles of government. Hoover replied, No,
• 1:05:27
  Speaker 5: that's one angle that's very confusing. For this reason we
• 1:05:30
  Speaker 5: have appeared the tape.
• 1:05:32
  Speaker 6: Ain't that the truth and.
• 1:05:34
  Speaker 5: The photograph of the man who was at the Soviet
• 1:05:37
  Speaker 5: embassy using Oswald's name, The picture and the tape do
• 1:05:41
  Speaker 5: not correspond to this man's voice nor to his appearance.
• 1:05:45
  Speaker 5: In other words, it appears that there is a second
• 1:05:47
  Speaker 5: person who was at the Soviet embassy down there. In
• 1:05:50
  Speaker 5: other words, an impostor had implicated Oswald in a relationship
• 1:05:54
  Speaker 5: with Soviet agents less than two months before the assassination.
• 1:05:58
  Speaker 5: The quotes given above or taken from I'm a transcript
• 1:06:00
  Speaker 5: of the conversation made contemporaneously in nineteen sixty three. The
• 1:06:05
  Speaker 5: tape itself is at the Lyndon Johnson Library. The LBJ library,
• 1:06:11
  Speaker 5: and the accompanying audio tape itself appears to have been
• 1:06:15
  Speaker 5: erased at some time since then. The accompanying audio consists
• 1:06:21
  Speaker 5: of fourteen minutes of noisy silence. See the fourteen minute
• 1:06:26
  Speaker 5: gap essay for more information. And of course this is
• 1:06:29
  Speaker 5: the part of the tape, you know, it's the important
• 1:06:34
  Speaker 5: part where Hoover says, you know, he's not the guy
• 1:06:39
  Speaker 5: on the tape. He's not the guy in the picture.
• 1:06:42
  Speaker 5: Our agents are familiar with Oswald, it's not him. Which
• 1:06:47
  Speaker 5: is a problem. Is it becomes a problem. But to
• 1:06:56
  Speaker 5: add a little more, another layer to the story, I'm
• 1:06:59
  Speaker 5: gonna give you a little background on a fellow that
• 1:07:04
  Speaker 5: is not very well known when it comes to the
• 1:07:06
  Speaker 5: Mexico City story, and he kind of tangentially, tangentially could
• 1:07:19
  Speaker 5: be part of Oswald's story allegedly. Now we know Oswald
• 1:07:26
  Speaker 5: wrote down about in his notebook. You know that what
• 1:07:30
  Speaker 5: he did in Mexico City, says he went to a
• 1:07:32
  Speaker 5: jily game and something else. I don't know what, but
• 1:07:37
  Speaker 5: I believe at some point he told he may have
• 1:07:40
  Speaker 5: told Marina that when he was in Mexico City he
• 1:07:43
  Speaker 5: saw bullfight. Right now, this is the story of Robert
• 1:07:51
  Speaker 5: Clayton Buick, who has actually written a couple of books
• 1:07:55
  Speaker 5: about the jfk assassination. He was an American born bullfighter
• 1:08:02
  Speaker 5: with a taste for a lavish lifestyle. But Joe, he
• 1:08:07
  Speaker 5: was also a bank robber, actually one of the ten
• 1:08:13
  Speaker 5: most wanted on the FBI list in nineteen sixty six. Wow.
• 1:08:21
  Speaker 5: In nineteen sixty one until nineteen sixty six, Robert Clayton
• 1:08:26
  Speaker 5: Buick was accused of holding up three banks in San
• 1:08:29
  Speaker 5: Diego County and nineteen banks in Los Angeles County, getting
• 1:08:35
  Speaker 5: away with some seventy five thousand dollars, which at the
• 1:08:40
  Speaker 5: time a lot of money. He was a diminutive dude,
• 1:08:49
  Speaker 5: but he had the erectstrut of a match ador. He
• 1:08:56
  Speaker 5: lived in Mexico, where he fought bulls in Mexico City,
• 1:09:00
  Speaker 5: Puerto Rico, and ran a marble importing business.
• 1:09:03
  Speaker 6: He was running with the bulls.
• 1:09:06
  Speaker 5: The one time San Diego resident said he was to
• 1:09:09
  Speaker 5: enjoy fine wines, expensive food, exotic travel, jazz, boating, and
• 1:09:15
  Speaker 5: beautiful women, and also boasting about his bouts in the ring.
• 1:09:21
  Speaker 6: Hey can't can't hit on that.
• 1:09:24
  Speaker 5: He as a player, yes.
• 1:09:27
  Speaker 6: Which also means he might be an embellisher.
• 1:09:31
  Speaker 5: Well, this is what he looks like. Hang on, let
• 1:09:36
  Speaker 5: me let me not distort this so terribly so you
• 1:09:40
  Speaker 5: get a better picture of him. See him there, Yes,
• 1:09:43
  Speaker 5: this is what he looked like in nineteen sixty three
• 1:09:46
  Speaker 5: as a bullfighter. Okay, all right.
• 1:09:54
  Speaker 6: He's probably like a six of no Homo, well.
• 1:10:03
  Speaker 5: Asked Brandon his broke Back Mountain opinion. But yeah, that's
• 1:10:09
  Speaker 5: Robert Clayton Buick. What do he look like? They're interesting, fellow.
• 1:10:14
  Speaker 6: Okay, So what did he see?
• 1:10:17
  Speaker 5: Well, not much the inside of a jail cell for
• 1:10:20
  Speaker 5: a while, because he was almost arrested at his last
• 1:10:26
  Speaker 5: robbery in Los Angeles, but he got away after biting
• 1:10:29
  Speaker 5: his pursuer on the hand. He bit a cop on
• 1:10:33
  Speaker 5: the hand to get away from him, and he got
• 1:10:34
  Speaker 5: away Dan whatever worse. A station wagon said to have
• 1:10:40
  Speaker 5: been used in his escape was later recovered in Banker's Hill,
• 1:10:43
  Speaker 5: a posh section of Los Angeles. Buick made the FBI
• 1:10:48
  Speaker 5: Top ten list in nineteen sixty six, and apparently he
• 1:10:53
  Speaker 5: had Barelli luck.
• 1:10:56
  Speaker 6: He got scars well.
• 1:10:57
  Speaker 5: He was caught five days later near Pekoas, Texas, after
• 1:11:02
  Speaker 5: a state controlman and a deputy sheriff noted a very
• 1:11:06
  Speaker 5: gaudy looking Volkswagen Carmen Gilla with Florida plates that they
• 1:11:11
  Speaker 5: thought were expired. As being suspicious, the driver identified himself
• 1:11:16
  Speaker 5: as Mark Anthony dan Serou. The officers asked him to
• 1:11:21
  Speaker 5: open his briefcase and get his driver's license out and
• 1:11:24
  Speaker 5: saw his gun inside the briefcase. It was then when
• 1:11:29
  Speaker 5: one of the officers recognized him from the FBI's wanted
• 1:11:33
  Speaker 5: poster put out five days earlier. Ultimately sentenced to twenty
• 1:11:40
  Speaker 5: years in prison after that.
• 1:11:43
  Speaker 6: Sheesh.
• 1:11:44
  Speaker 5: Yeah. The x con has since self published at least
• 1:11:48
  Speaker 5: three or four books on the assassination of President John F. Kennedy.
• 1:11:54
  Speaker 5: Uh yeah. He was known as the El Cicloonne del Norte, Okay,
• 1:12:02
  Speaker 5: the Cyclone of the North.
• 1:12:04
  Speaker 6: So how did he was he in Texas in nineteen
• 1:12:08
  Speaker 6: sixty three? I mean Texas, Mexico City.
• 1:12:12
  Speaker 5: Well, I'm getting there, okay, in the spring of nineteen
• 1:12:15
  Speaker 5: sixty three. This is what he writes in one of
• 1:12:16
  Speaker 5: his books, and I'm quoting here. I was a rising
• 1:12:20
  Speaker 5: star in the touring world of bullfighting and the most
• 1:12:24
  Speaker 5: successful American bullfighter of my time, residing in Mexico City.
• 1:12:30
  Speaker 5: When I was approached one late evening by two US
• 1:12:33
  Speaker 5: government agents and asked to do a surveillance project at
• 1:12:36
  Speaker 5: a small hotel that I had frequented it in the
• 1:12:39
  Speaker 5: past and was well known by the staff and patrons. Subsequently,
• 1:12:45
  Speaker 5: I met with someone named Lee Harvey Oswald, an American
• 1:12:48
  Speaker 5: who subtly told me on September twenty eighth, nineteen sixty three,
• 1:12:52
  Speaker 5: of a plot to kill President Kennedy. Two months later,
• 1:12:57
  Speaker 5: Kennedy was dead in Dallas. Oswald was not the lone
• 1:13:02
  Speaker 5: nut case that everyone perceived him to be. He was intelligent, articulate,
• 1:13:06
  Speaker 5: well read, experienced and calculating. The assassination plotters set him
• 1:13:12
  Speaker 5: up as the Patsy. Rosellie told me they quote could
• 1:13:16
  Speaker 5: not have cloned a better Patsy end quote.
• 1:13:19
  Speaker 6: Oh he knew Roselle too.
• 1:13:21
  Speaker 5: Apparently so interesting. They were both from la You know
• 1:13:26
  Speaker 5: that that is true.
• 1:13:27
  Speaker 6: That's what I was.
• 1:13:28
  Speaker 5: He's a bank robber, and you know he robbed twenty
• 1:13:32
  Speaker 5: one banks. I mean, that's pretty prolific for a bank robber.
• 1:13:35
  Speaker 6: That's pretty good. You just didn't get away with twenty.
• 1:13:37
  Speaker 5: One, right, they said. But Oswald was smart and got
• 1:13:43
  Speaker 5: away after he sensed what was about to come down.
• 1:13:45
  Speaker 5: On him for they had intentions of taking him out
• 1:13:48
  Speaker 5: after the assassination because he knew too much. And the
• 1:13:51
  Speaker 5: rest is in the history books when Jack Ruby took
• 1:13:53
  Speaker 5: him out in that basement garage that Sunday evening. As
• 1:14:03
  Speaker 5: the facts prevailed throughout the years, Oswald never fired a
• 1:14:06
  Speaker 5: shot turns out at the presidential motorcade, nor did he
• 1:14:09
  Speaker 5: shooter kill J. D. Tippett. According to Buick, there were
• 1:14:14
  Speaker 5: three shooters in Dally Plaiza that day and a total
• 1:14:17
  Speaker 5: of five shots were fired at the president. The shot
• 1:14:20
  Speaker 5: that fatally wounded the president was to his right temple,
• 1:14:24
  Speaker 5: never revealed in the autopsy report or the Warrant commission report,
• 1:14:29
  Speaker 5: that was fired by the grassy ole shooter. Guess who, Joe,
• 1:14:36
  Speaker 5: who do you think this guy names? Is the grassy
• 1:14:38
  Speaker 5: old shooter?
• 1:14:39
  Speaker 6: Oh? Man, let me get give me a sucker here
• 1:14:43
  Speaker 6: or no?
• 1:14:45
  Speaker 5: No, nobody, nobody?
• 1:14:48
  Speaker 6: Okay, can't come in ahead? Is that someone likely?
• 1:14:51
  Speaker 5: Close? Yeah?
• 1:14:53
  Speaker 6: Someone to close? Lauren Hall? No, okay.
• 1:15:00
  Speaker 5: One in the wrong direction?
• 1:15:06
  Speaker 6: Is it something we talked about tonight?
• 1:15:09
  Speaker 5: His name has not been mentioned tonight.
• 1:15:13
  Speaker 6: Lawrence Howard.
• 1:15:15
  Speaker 5: No, you're go in the wrong direction. Roll no closer?
• 1:15:25
  Speaker 5: Even more scaffuza than Roselli, even more.
• 1:15:28
  Speaker 6: Scuffs than Roselle. That's great, man. Uh, I don't know
• 1:15:42
  Speaker 6: Sam g and con No. I have no idea.
• 1:15:45
  Speaker 5: Oh you are so dancing around it like a damn ballerina, Bro.
• 1:15:49
  Speaker 6: I mean he didn't never hurt down much for me.
• 1:15:54
  Speaker 5: There was fired by the grassy Nose shooter Jimmy Sutton
• 1:15:57
  Speaker 5: aka James Files, Oh, whom I communicate with on a
• 1:16:04
  Speaker 5: monthly basis. He is currently doing thirty years in Statesville
• 1:16:09
  Speaker 5: Correctional Center in Joliette, Illinois. Johnny Roselli here you go,
• 1:16:14
  Speaker 5: was also involved in the Kennedy assassination. He told me
• 1:16:18
  Speaker 5: in the spring of seventy one what had taken place
• 1:16:21
  Speaker 5: in Dallas that day, twenty three years prior to Files's
• 1:16:25
  Speaker 5: confession in ninety four. Their stories were identical, with only
• 1:16:29
  Speaker 5: minor discrepancies. Roselli was to be a backup shooter for
• 1:16:33
  Speaker 5: the mob hitman Chucky Nicoletti, but he backed out the
• 1:16:37
  Speaker 5: morning of the assassination and replaced by James Files. The
• 1:16:42
  Speaker 5: shooter in the sniper's nest was.
• 1:16:50
  Speaker 6: Nicoletti. I don't know if this guy has lost me.
• 1:16:57
  Speaker 2: Bro.
• 1:17:00
  Speaker 5: If you're in the cnipers of the book depository was
• 1:17:02
  Speaker 5: lbj's man Mac Wallace. He left his fingerprints on the
• 1:17:06
  Speaker 5: cart and boxes that hit the rifle. From public view.
• 1:17:09
  Speaker 5: Oswald was in the second floor lunch room at the
• 1:17:12
  Speaker 5: time of the shots. After years of having personal knowledge, involvement,
• 1:17:17
  Speaker 5: and extensive research, I have become the foremost expert about
• 1:17:20
  Speaker 5: what really happened that day in Dallas. There are many
• 1:17:25
  Speaker 5: reasons and many entities that wanted President Kennedy taken out.
• 1:17:29
  Speaker 5: That is covered in the contents of my work. Yeah,
• 1:17:31
  Speaker 5: he named it Kennedy Book about the assassination. He named
• 1:17:35
  Speaker 5: it taking out the garbage. Interesting, apparently that's a mafia
• 1:17:42
  Speaker 5: reference to, you know, rubbing somebody out. We had to
• 1:17:46
  Speaker 5: take out the garbage.
• 1:17:53
  Speaker 6: Oh man, Yeah, I've never heard that reference before. Thank
• 1:17:57
  Speaker 6: you for that.
• 1:17:57
  Speaker 5: Oh again, how I went use it? How reliable is
• 1:18:03
  Speaker 5: this guy? Right? I mean, we know he's a bullfighter
• 1:18:07
  Speaker 5: in Mexico in sixty three. There is some corroboration coming
• 1:18:14
  Speaker 5: from Oswald about being in a bullfight. I don't know.
• 1:18:20
  Speaker 5: It's a weird story.
• 1:18:22
  Speaker 6: It's weird, and it's hard to believe someone that has
• 1:18:28
  Speaker 6: obviously was on the FBI top ten most wander List,
• 1:18:32
  Speaker 6: robbed twenty one Banks and then has now wrote four
• 1:18:35
  Speaker 6: JFK books.
• 1:18:36
  Speaker 5: So it's like it's a con. It's a long con,
• 1:18:40
  Speaker 5: a very long con.
• 1:18:42
  Speaker 6: Right, and then you name you know, nicol Files and Nicolelli.
• 1:18:46
  Speaker 5: And whatever you're pulling all the other skafoozas that are
• 1:18:49
  Speaker 5: lying about this yet.
• 1:18:51
  Speaker 6: Yeah, although it's not out of the wrong possibility he
• 1:18:54
  Speaker 6: might have known or ran enter Roselli at some point.
• 1:18:57
  Speaker 5: But yeah, like I said, they're both in a in
• 1:19:00
  Speaker 5: the LA circle of the Underworld, Robin Banks and the mafia, right,
• 1:19:07
  Speaker 5: because it says he was also a part time actor
• 1:19:11
  Speaker 5: when he was in LA and Robin Banks. Yeah, and
• 1:19:15
  Speaker 5: Roselli was you know, dealing with the studios and stuff
• 1:19:18
  Speaker 5: out there as well. So you know, it's not out
• 1:19:19
  Speaker 5: of the realm possibility that they knew each other.
• 1:19:22
  Speaker 6: Handsome curtis.
• 1:19:28
  Speaker 5: All right, which brings us to this point in the show. Joe,
• 1:19:32
  Speaker 5: I don't know that you've been dreading for a very
• 1:19:36
  Speaker 5: long time. But before before I asked you your opinion,
• 1:19:41
  Speaker 5: I just want to set the table for everyone here
• 1:19:44
  Speaker 5: real quick, okay, because this is a very complicated situation
• 1:19:49
  Speaker 5: when we're talking about was Oswald in Mexico. Now, if
• 1:19:55
  Speaker 5: you were to believe that Oswald did in fact go
• 1:19:59
  Speaker 5: to me Mexico, you would be basing that information right
• 1:20:06
  Speaker 5: upon the personal testimony of eyewitnesses who saw him and
• 1:20:13
  Speaker 5: dealt with him in Mexico City. We talked about some
• 1:20:17
  Speaker 5: of them tonight, including Sylvia Duran. Right, asked Q has
• 1:20:23
  Speaker 5: been interviewed. He says, Oswald's there. Another guy that worked
• 1:20:27
  Speaker 5: in the Cuban consulate was there, he said, positively identified him.
• 1:20:31
  Speaker 5: You got the three KGB guys positives positively identifying Oswald
• 1:20:36
  Speaker 5: as being at their embassy.
• 1:20:38
  Speaker 6: Yeah, you do. We played that. We played that clip
• 1:20:41
  Speaker 6: on once, Anne, And if.
• 1:20:44
  Speaker 5: You think about it this way, the only thing when
• 1:20:49
  Speaker 5: looking at Oswald's actions in New Orleans leading up towards
• 1:20:53
  Speaker 5: you know, the assassination, and what he was doing and
• 1:20:59
  Speaker 5: what he eventually tried to do when he did get
• 1:21:02
  Speaker 5: to Mexico City, if he went allegedly, you know, he
• 1:21:09
  Speaker 5: was building his own pro Castro legend, right right, So
• 1:21:17
  Speaker 5: you can either believe one of two things that Oswald
• 1:21:20
  Speaker 5: was legitimately a communist Marxist, legitimately a pro Castro guy,
• 1:21:27
  Speaker 5: legitimately wanted to get the fuck back to Russia with
• 1:21:32
  Speaker 5: his family via Cuba and get back out of the
• 1:21:34
  Speaker 5: United States. We have evidence that letters were written to
• 1:21:39
  Speaker 5: the Washington Embassy or the Russian Embassy in Washington, starting
• 1:21:44
  Speaker 5: as far back as February of nineteen sixty three to
• 1:21:48
  Speaker 5: start to get the ball rolling. They made Marina jump
• 1:21:51
  Speaker 5: through a bunch of hoops. What she did, she was
• 1:21:55
  Speaker 5: denied because her relatives, her uncles, would not let them
• 1:21:59
  Speaker 5: come live with them. Don't blame him. They were told
• 1:22:03
  Speaker 5: to try again. Right at which point you know it
• 1:22:09
  Speaker 5: was her writing letters, Marina of the writing letters, and
• 1:22:12
  Speaker 5: Lee writing letters. And it was about in July of
• 1:22:16
  Speaker 5: sixty three when Oswald loses a job at the Riley
• 1:22:19
  Speaker 5: Coffee Company again, right, there's a couple months of turmoil there,
• 1:22:27
  Speaker 5: and he starts doing this thing because he's starting to
• 1:22:31
  Speaker 5: get desperate. So if he's of the mindset and they're
• 1:22:36
  Speaker 5: writing letters and they're not getting anywhere with the Russian
• 1:22:39
  Speaker 5: Embassy in Washington, and maybe he's thinking, look, if I
• 1:22:43
  Speaker 5: go to Mexico and go to the Russian embassy there,
• 1:22:48
  Speaker 5: then maybe I can get clearance, if I can prove
• 1:22:51
  Speaker 5: my bona fides that I am a procaster supporter you know,
• 1:22:55
  Speaker 5: I'm in this organization. I was arrested for the cause
• 1:23:00
  Speaker 5: I'm persecuted by the FBI, basically seeking a political asylum,
• 1:23:04
  Speaker 5: if you will, and thinking that they're going to give
• 1:23:08
  Speaker 5: him a Cuban courtesy visa, right, the same one that
• 1:23:12
  Speaker 5: Gilberto Lopez got, But it didn't happen. They made him wait,
• 1:23:21
  Speaker 5: they made him go through the proper channels because he
• 1:23:23
  Speaker 5: was not a Cuban national. Right. So the only thing
• 1:23:32
  Speaker 5: that makes sense if you believe that Oswald went to
• 1:23:35
  Speaker 5: Mexico and tried to do these things, is that, you know,
• 1:23:40
  Speaker 5: in New Orleans, he's getting desperate. Marina is going to
• 1:23:43
  Speaker 5: have the baby in October, right, so he needs to
• 1:23:47
  Speaker 5: make something happen before then, or at least try to.
• 1:23:52
  Speaker 5: That's what's the plan all along. So at the end
• 1:23:56
  Speaker 5: of September, he embarks on his journey and attempts to
• 1:24:03
  Speaker 5: you know, proceed with his plan to try to get
• 1:24:06
  Speaker 5: to Cuba, and then Marina would follow after because they
• 1:24:10
  Speaker 5: wouldn't keep Marina here. As you know, a married wife
• 1:24:14
  Speaker 5: to an American, you know, when their husband's not in
• 1:24:19
  Speaker 5: the country and is requesting that he joined her or
• 1:24:24
  Speaker 5: that she joined him, right, and again, Allegedly that's the plan.
• 1:24:29
  Speaker 5: But the plan doesn't work and they keep fighting. She
• 1:24:32
  Speaker 5: keeps living with Ruth Payne. He gets a shitty job
• 1:24:35
  Speaker 5: at the school Bok depository. He's living away from her, obviously,
• 1:24:41
  Speaker 5: you know he's going back and visiting, but there's no
• 1:24:43
  Speaker 5: real connection there. She may have told him that last night.
• 1:24:48
  Speaker 5: You know, it's not you know, we're never going to
• 1:24:51
  Speaker 5: get back together. You're a loser. I don't want anything
• 1:24:53
  Speaker 5: to do with you, you know whatever. The case may
• 1:24:57
  Speaker 5: be a small, pure speculation right about now, right, but
• 1:25:02
  Speaker 5: that's that is where you get the narrative. Forget for
• 1:25:05
  Speaker 5: a minute the whole bullshit of the FBI trying to
• 1:25:10
  Speaker 5: recreate a trick. You can't do it right. So it
• 1:25:16
  Speaker 5: doesn't really matter how Oswald got to Mexico City. The
• 1:25:22
  Speaker 5: only place that he would have had to show an
• 1:25:24
  Speaker 5: ID would have been the border at Nuevo Laredo to
• 1:25:28
  Speaker 5: get into Mexico, That's the only place he would have
• 1:25:31
  Speaker 5: had to show his passport or an ID. Remember you
• 1:25:36
  Speaker 5: didn't even need your ID to fly a plane in
• 1:25:39
  Speaker 5: nineteen sixty three, Joe, That's true. You damn sure didn't
• 1:25:42
  Speaker 5: need one to buy a bus.
• 1:25:43
  Speaker 9: Ticket, Yes, shut out, deep shut out, Buell D Bull
• 1:25:49
  Speaker 9: D Cooper, right, and that.
• 1:25:54
  Speaker 5: Was the seventies, Yeah, and with this is sixty three.
• 1:26:00
  Speaker 5: So I don't put much faith in the whole FBI
• 1:26:03
  Speaker 5: recreation of you know, he was on this bus at
• 1:26:06
  Speaker 5: this time and this bus at that time, then he
• 1:26:07
  Speaker 5: got on this bus of this. It doesn't matter if
• 1:26:10
  Speaker 5: it's wrong or right. It really doesn't matter if he
• 1:26:12
  Speaker 5: flew there, went on a bus, or got driven there,
• 1:26:15
  Speaker 5: whatever the case may be. Who cares, all right, The
• 1:26:18
  Speaker 5: whole point is he allegedly got there somehow, right, and
• 1:26:23
  Speaker 5: he may have took a bus from the wave Bo
• 1:26:25
  Speaker 5: Laredo down right, and likely there was a bus that
• 1:26:30
  Speaker 5: went straight from Mexico City back across the border. Much
• 1:26:35
  Speaker 5: easier to track that than trying to get you from
• 1:26:38
  Speaker 5: New Orleans to the border, right when you don't know
• 1:26:41
  Speaker 5: where he went in Texas to catch the next bus,
• 1:26:44
  Speaker 5: or even if he was on a bus, who knows.
• 1:26:47
  Speaker 5: I don't trust the FBI and their investigation. I don't
• 1:26:52
  Speaker 5: trust that they had records of each passenger on the bus,
• 1:26:57
  Speaker 5: of every bus ride. I don't doubt it. Back at
• 1:27:01
  Speaker 5: sixty three, as long as you had to cash or
• 1:27:04
  Speaker 5: a bus ticket. I doubt you had to sign anything,
• 1:27:07
  Speaker 5: and even if you did, you could sign a different name.
• 1:27:11
  Speaker 5: Why wouldn't you, You know, if you're trying to clandestinely
• 1:27:15
  Speaker 5: go somewhere, you know what I mean, like.
• 1:27:17
  Speaker 6: Mister Lopez, or I mean, or just be clandestine initially
• 1:27:23
  Speaker 6: him with his sunglasses.
• 1:27:25
  Speaker 5: Yeah. Now, if you're of the conspiratorial mindset, like this
• 1:27:31
  Speaker 5: comment Sally's got up here says if he went he
• 1:27:33
  Speaker 5: wanted to be seen, remembered and had no intention of
• 1:27:36
  Speaker 5: going to Cuba, well that's possible too, But then again,
• 1:27:40
  Speaker 5: he's drawing attention to himself for some reason. Now, if
• 1:27:44
  Speaker 5: he's doing that on his own volition, he's a scaffooza.
• 1:27:49
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 1:27:50
  Speaker 5: Now if he's doing it at the behested or the
• 1:27:52
  Speaker 5: direction of a different entity, and he was too stupid
• 1:27:56
  Speaker 5: to ask why am I doing? Why am I doing this.
• 1:28:00
  Speaker 6: Thing?
• 1:28:01
  Speaker 5: Then yeah, maybe you know, but I think he did
• 1:28:08
  Speaker 5: have intentions of trying to get to Cuba because at
• 1:28:12
  Speaker 5: this point he's desperate. He's been writing the Russian embassy
• 1:28:17
  Speaker 5: all year, Marina is pregnant, things ain't going well, he's
• 1:28:20
  Speaker 5: losing his job. He's building his own fair play for
• 1:28:23
  Speaker 5: Cuban narrative, his own aj High Deel narrative, his own
• 1:28:27
  Speaker 5: you know, pro castro narrative. And in New Orleans, he's
• 1:28:29
  Speaker 5: pissing off Cuban exiles, right, and he does something a
• 1:28:37
  Speaker 5: desperate act. He goes to Mexico City to the Cuban
• 1:28:43
  Speaker 5: consulate there and tries to get to Cuba, but they
• 1:28:45
  Speaker 5: make him jump through the hoops and you know, go
• 1:28:48
  Speaker 5: through the steps. Now, if you're of the conspiratorial mindset,
• 1:28:54
  Speaker 5: and you're of the belief that he wasn't there at
• 1:29:00
  Speaker 5: all and that he was impersonated, there is very good
• 1:29:06
  Speaker 5: evidence to back up that assumption, including the fourteen minute
• 1:29:09
  Speaker 5: gap on the tape, Hoover's own comments from the transcripts
• 1:29:14
  Speaker 5: of the tapes that were done contemporaneously. But we don't
• 1:29:17
  Speaker 5: actually have the audio of the tape, nor do we
• 1:29:20
  Speaker 5: have any photographs of Oswald in Mexico City other than
• 1:29:24
  Speaker 5: the one that is on his Cuban visa application. Right.
• 1:29:31
  Speaker 5: There's problems with that as well. There's two different versions
• 1:29:36
  Speaker 5: of this with stamps on it in different places, which
• 1:29:40
  Speaker 5: is a problem that's indicative of doing something after the
• 1:29:48
  Speaker 5: fact for some reason, like making it look like he
• 1:29:52
  Speaker 5: was there, right, which is not good. It's not good.
• 1:29:58
  Speaker 5: The problem with that that theory is all of the
• 1:30:04
  Speaker 5: eyewitness testimony that puts Oswald in Mexico. So for the
• 1:30:12
  Speaker 5: theory that Oswald was never there to be true, one
• 1:30:16
  Speaker 5: would have to believe that all of these other people
• 1:30:20
  Speaker 5: are lying about him being in Mexico City, including people
• 1:30:26
  Speaker 5: that rode on the bus with him, allegedly, including the
• 1:30:32
  Speaker 5: hotel manager where he stayed. We have his signature, which
• 1:30:37
  Speaker 5: of course could be forged, and it's not really his name,
• 1:30:40
  Speaker 5: it's Harvey Oswald Lee, just a variation of his own name.
• 1:30:46
  Speaker 6: Right.
• 1:30:47
  Speaker 5: We have that letter from Oswald to the Russian Embassy
• 1:30:49
  Speaker 5: in Washington admitting that he went to Mexico out of
• 1:30:53
  Speaker 5: his own lips. We have some Mexican memorabilia found among
• 1:30:59
  Speaker 5: his possess which of course could be faked allegedly m hm.
• 1:31:06
  Speaker 5: But again you have people like Sylvia duran as Quah,
• 1:31:10
  Speaker 5: the KGB guys, all saying that it was him, he
• 1:31:14
  Speaker 5: was here, it was him. But then you have the
• 1:31:19
  Speaker 5: CIA Mexico City station, the wire intercepts claiming somebody was
• 1:31:28
  Speaker 5: speaking in very poor Russian, which Oswald was not a
• 1:31:32
  Speaker 5: poor Russian speaker, lived in Russia for almost three years
• 1:31:36
  Speaker 5: and has a Russian wife, and you think he can't
• 1:31:38
  Speaker 5: speak Russian fluently, they're fuck out of here. You had
• 1:31:43
  Speaker 5: to fuck out of here.
• 1:31:46
  Speaker 6: M hm.
• 1:31:50
  Speaker 5: So in the Grand Conspiracy, you have to believe that
• 1:31:53
  Speaker 5: all these other people that saw him there are lying.
• 1:31:58
  Speaker 2: You have to.
• 1:32:01
  Speaker 5: Come up with another explanation of where Oswald was at
• 1:32:04
  Speaker 5: this time. If he wasn't in Mexico, where the fuck
• 1:32:06
  Speaker 5: was he? You can maybe account for one night with Odio.
• 1:32:14
  Speaker 5: Maybe maybe, but again that's early in the trip. It's
• 1:32:17
  Speaker 5: twenty fifth to twenty six. He can still be in
• 1:32:20
  Speaker 5: Mexico within two days and be these you know, be
• 1:32:24
  Speaker 5: down there on the twenty seventh or twenty eighth, through
• 1:32:27
  Speaker 5: the through the third or whenever he was down there.
• 1:32:29
  Speaker 6: Too, right, And that would have mean he'd have to
• 1:32:32
  Speaker 6: gone down there and like shocked up with Sylvia, I
• 1:32:36
  Speaker 6: mean Duran right.
• 1:32:37
  Speaker 5: Away allegedly if he did. You know, there's very good
• 1:32:44
  Speaker 5: arguments for both sides of this, And then there's even
• 1:32:47
  Speaker 5: one argument that maybe was both. Maybe he was there
• 1:32:52
  Speaker 5: and maybe he was impersonated while he was there, which
• 1:32:56
  Speaker 5: is a good option as well. Now, the reasons for
• 1:33:02
  Speaker 5: that could be that they are setting this guy up
• 1:33:06
  Speaker 5: for an upcoming operation, that maybe they're not clear what
• 1:33:10
  Speaker 5: it is yet, but that he can be a useful
• 1:33:13
  Speaker 5: tool given his pedigree. You know, he's a disgruntled American
• 1:33:21
  Speaker 5: who defected to Russia, who married some Russian wife, comes
• 1:33:25
  Speaker 5: back to the United States, can't hold a job, doesn't
• 1:33:29
  Speaker 5: live with his old lady, you know, can't keep a job.
• 1:33:37
  Speaker 5: I don't know.
• 1:33:38
  Speaker 6: Yeah, And then you have, of course, the whole issue
• 1:33:41
  Speaker 6: of yeah, and the whole issue of their not being pictures,
• 1:33:50
  Speaker 6: the audio being deleted or lost. Some people say they
• 1:33:54
  Speaker 6: heard it. But Rob, before I give my final thoughts,
• 1:33:59
  Speaker 6: I did find a little audio about LBJ and Hoover
• 1:34:03
  Speaker 6: talking about this, and I don't think it's in the
• 1:34:08
  Speaker 6: fourteen minute gap, but let me see if I can
• 1:34:11
  Speaker 6: play this all right? And this is from our friend
• 1:34:19
  Speaker 6: Robbie at Out of the Blank.
• 1:34:22
  Speaker 5: Yeah, this is on the twenty ninth.
• 1:34:24
  Speaker 6: This is on the twenty ninth.
• 1:34:37
  Speaker 5: There's no audio.
• 1:34:37
  Speaker 6: Joe God, I was my YouTube app on here is horrible.
• 1:34:46
  Speaker 6: Let me just do it through my remove that. Let
• 1:34:48
  Speaker 6: me just do it through my phone.
• 1:34:53
  Speaker 4: We hope to have anything wrapped up today, but the
• 1:34:55
  Speaker 4: day they probably won't get it.
• 1:34:56
  Speaker 6: Before the prot week to angle it.
• 1:34:59
  Speaker 2: Up.
• 1:35:00
  Speaker 3: The whole.
• 1:35:02
  Speaker 1: The story they have been bad.
• 1:35:03
  Speaker 7: I'll getting cooked at five hundred dollars from the Cuban empathy.
• 1:35:08
  Speaker 6: And then coming back to the deduct with it.
• 1:35:11
  Speaker 4: They were not able to prove that fact in the lad.
• 1:35:16
  Speaker 1: That he was the all eight.
• 1:35:20
  Speaker 6: In the city we have, we are able to prove
• 1:35:23
  Speaker 6: he was a new land that day I found this
• 1:35:25
  Speaker 6: weird thing in a plastic bag. Okay, So on the
• 1:35:31
  Speaker 6: twenty eighth or ninth, they're still you know, of course
• 1:35:35
  Speaker 6: he's talking about Alvarado here, you know, with the sixty
• 1:35:38
  Speaker 6: five hundred dollars. They're still trying to figure out their story.
• 1:35:43
  Speaker 5: Yeah, but did that come through?
• 1:35:46
  Speaker 6: Okay?
• 1:35:47
  Speaker 5: Yeah, it was a little horrible, but yeah it was eligible. Okay,
• 1:35:51
  Speaker 5: but you know, by this time Oswald is dead and
• 1:35:55
  Speaker 5: the narrative starts to shift. LBG claims there will be
• 1:35:58
  Speaker 5: a commission to investigate the murder since Oswald cannot stand
• 1:36:03
  Speaker 5: to a trial because the American people want answers, and
• 1:36:09
  Speaker 5: of course one of those answers cannot be that Cuba
• 1:36:13
  Speaker 5: or Russia was in any way part of this scheme, right,
• 1:36:18
  Speaker 5: And that's why I think there's a disconnect with the
• 1:36:21
  Speaker 5: evidence of Oswald being in Mexico. I think it was
• 1:36:26
  Speaker 5: deep sixth because if he was there, you know, they
• 1:36:30
  Speaker 5: got pictures of this motherfucker. You know, they got audio
• 1:36:33
  Speaker 5: of this motherfucker, right, and it's not a good look
• 1:36:41
  Speaker 5: and his voice is distinct, so yeah, you know, it
• 1:36:46
  Speaker 5: would definitely not be a good look. You know, to
• 1:36:50
  Speaker 5: see the guy that just killed the president talking to
• 1:36:53
  Speaker 5: the Russians and the Cubans a couple of months, you know,
• 1:36:57
  Speaker 5: before the assassination.
• 1:36:59
  Speaker 6: Mm hm.
• 1:37:00
  Speaker 5: You know, one could draw a pretty straight line from
• 1:37:02
  Speaker 5: here to there and you know be like, Okay, this
• 1:37:05
  Speaker 5: guy's obviously working with the Russians to the Cubans. He's
• 1:37:08
  Speaker 5: a procastro guy. Obviously they're behind this in some way.
• 1:37:14
  Speaker 5: And that's why I think this, this Alvarado story doesn't
• 1:37:18
  Speaker 5: make sense other than the fact that this guy was
• 1:37:22
  Speaker 5: put up to telling a story and he fucked up
• 1:37:24
  Speaker 5: the dates, right, because it really didn't happen, But they
• 1:37:29
  Speaker 5: they got some skafuza who couldn't keep his dates straight
• 1:37:35
  Speaker 5: because you know, if you know, they're a legend that
• 1:37:40
  Speaker 5: Oswald was given payment for, you know, from somebody in
• 1:37:45
  Speaker 5: the Cuban embassy. That's not a good look either, and
• 1:37:51
  Speaker 5: that strikes more to the setting up Oswald side of
• 1:37:56
  Speaker 5: the story, you know, to make it look like he's
• 1:37:59
  Speaker 5: in bed with the with the Castro in Cuba and
• 1:38:02
  Speaker 5: the Russians a comedy, making him a communist taking out Kennedy,
• 1:38:08
  Speaker 5: which is not the narrative that they wanted. So that's
• 1:38:14
  Speaker 5: ultimately I think by things got deep six, evidence comes
• 1:38:17
  Speaker 5: up missing or lost or erased, or that's why things
• 1:38:22
  Speaker 5: don't quite make sense. That's why we can't make heads
• 1:38:25
  Speaker 5: or tails out of any of this shit, because nothing
• 1:38:27
  Speaker 5: makes sense because there's things missing, There's been things taken out,
• 1:38:30
  Speaker 5: there's been asses covered, you see what I'm saying. Because
• 1:38:36
  Speaker 5: there's too many things going on in the intelligence community
• 1:38:41
  Speaker 5: with Cuba, Russia, Mexico City, Oswald and the President being killed.
• 1:38:47
  Speaker 5: It's not good. And if you know, the world found
• 1:38:51
  Speaker 5: out that, hey, actually the CIA has been trying to
• 1:38:54
  Speaker 5: kill Castro for a couple of years and he definitely
• 1:38:57
  Speaker 5: found out about it, he'd probably definitely be pissed about it,
• 1:39:00
  Speaker 5: probably definitely try to retaliate. Why not use one of
• 1:39:04
  Speaker 5: the why not use an American against one of their
• 1:39:07
  Speaker 5: own I mean that's pretty brilliant. You know, if you
• 1:39:11
  Speaker 5: if if you're trying to kill me, well guess what
• 1:39:14
  Speaker 5: come come over here, Leah Harvey Oswald. You really uh,
• 1:39:17
  Speaker 5: you know, you really support me this and that. Here's
• 1:39:21
  Speaker 5: what I want you to do. Go back to the
• 1:39:23
  Speaker 5: United States, get a job along the motorcade route, and
• 1:39:28
  Speaker 5: take out Kennedy. Once you do that, if you can
• 1:39:32
  Speaker 5: find your way back to Cuba, you'll be treated like
• 1:39:34
  Speaker 5: a king. You can have it everything you want, YadA.
• 1:39:38
  Speaker 6: Get your own solo flight like a little bit.
• 1:39:41
  Speaker 5: Yeah, you know, but you know, there's there's just so
• 1:39:46
  Speaker 5: much intriguing stuff with this, so much and and it
• 1:39:50
  Speaker 5: kind of correlates to what we were talking somebody coming
• 1:39:52
  Speaker 5: in earlier about I think it was trade with the
• 1:39:54
  Speaker 5: medical evidence. You know, there's just so much cover up
• 1:39:57
  Speaker 5: going on about all this stuff that things evidence comes
• 1:40:01
  Speaker 5: up missing evidence. You can't really tell what happened because
• 1:40:05
  Speaker 5: things start to disappear or get convoluted or get altered
• 1:40:10
  Speaker 5: for whatever reason. You know, it's and it just becomes
• 1:40:15
  Speaker 5: a mess to try to figure out. And I don't
• 1:40:17
  Speaker 5: think we ever will. So with that being said, Joe,
• 1:40:21
  Speaker 5: I'm gonna throw it in your lap, and I'm gonna
• 1:40:26
  Speaker 5: ask you whether or not you think Oswald went to
• 1:40:28
  Speaker 5: Mexico City and why and why you think what you
• 1:40:34
  Speaker 5: think as here at the oriented JFK researcher.
• 1:40:42
  Speaker 6: Can I give percentages?
• 1:40:43
  Speaker 5: No, it's a yes or no.
• 1:40:47
  Speaker 6: Okay, Well, after analyzing obviously Alvarado, who was completely discredited,
• 1:40:56
  Speaker 6: I don't believe Sylvia Duran's testimony can really be credited
• 1:41:03
  Speaker 6: based on the fact that she was literally under arrest
• 1:41:05
  Speaker 6: and allegedly tortured. So I kind of kind of discount
• 1:41:10
  Speaker 6: that the fact that there are no.
• 1:41:13
  Speaker 5: Audio the eighties when she's not being tortured and she's
• 1:41:16
  Speaker 5: telling the same thing, the same story. Yeah, what about
• 1:41:19
  Speaker 5: in the seventies for the HCA, when she's not being tortured,
• 1:41:22
  Speaker 5: she tells the same story.
• 1:41:25
  Speaker 6: Yeah. I believe the KGB officers, the three of them
• 1:41:30
  Speaker 6: that were interviewed at the same time, was in the eighties, right,
• 1:41:35
  Speaker 6: It's hard for me to believe that at this point,
• 1:41:38
  Speaker 6: you know, Soviet Union is about to fall. The two
• 1:41:42
  Speaker 6: skufuza Aussie English lads or not. It's not lad laddies
• 1:41:47
  Speaker 6: laddies correct, baddie laddies. One was a baddie one add
• 1:41:53
  Speaker 6: some questionable teeth. Uh, I've I'm not sure we do have.
• 1:42:03
  Speaker 5: We do have British listeners.
• 1:42:07
  Speaker 6: Well, no, I'm just I'm not saying that all British
• 1:42:11
  Speaker 6: listeners have bad teeth. I'm saying one of the two
• 1:42:14
  Speaker 6: when we watched it on Wednesday was huh. But that's
• 1:42:19
  Speaker 6: not stop distracting me. You're making me lose my train
• 1:42:25
  Speaker 6: of thought. You got that guy Bowen, who's an alias
• 1:42:32
  Speaker 6: who has another name. I don't know if I believe
• 1:42:35
  Speaker 6: him was another English guy.
• 1:42:39
  Speaker 5: He's allegedly a CIA I said, name Albert Osborne, right,
• 1:42:44
  Speaker 5: He's an eighty year old British guy.
• 1:42:47
  Speaker 6: So yeah, I was always under the impression that he
• 1:42:57
  Speaker 6: did go, but he was impersonated as well, like maybe
• 1:43:00
  Speaker 6: he didn't do the right thing, like maybe he didn't
• 1:43:04
  Speaker 6: run through the right kind of channels or or call
• 1:43:11
  Speaker 6: so they had to call for him and impersonate him.
• 1:43:13
  Speaker 6: I was always kind of under that kind of middle ground,
• 1:43:17
  Speaker 6: if you will, as.
• 1:43:19
  Speaker 5: You know, you know, I love to do that to
• 1:43:20
  Speaker 5: explain why they didn't get his impersonator.
• 1:43:23
  Speaker 6: All right. I And like I don't know what to
• 1:43:31
  Speaker 6: make of when Scott saying he was because you know,
• 1:43:34
  Speaker 6: in his memoirs. I don't know how much you could
• 1:43:37
  Speaker 6: trust that. The ASQ thing, I don't know. That doesn't
• 1:43:43
  Speaker 6: make any sense. The I'm going to bring a pistol
• 1:43:47
  Speaker 6: into the rusting embassy and put it on the table
• 1:43:51
  Speaker 6: doesn't make any sense to me.
• 1:43:54
  Speaker 5: That his only other option would have been to send
• 1:43:58
  Speaker 5: both his gun and his rifle back to Dallas with
• 1:44:01
  Speaker 5: Marina and Ruth. Right, And he can't take a rifle
• 1:44:05
  Speaker 5: with him to Mexico, but he can take a pistol.
• 1:44:09
  Speaker 6: Yeah, Marina, I'm glad you brought Marina up. She also said, initially,
• 1:44:16
  Speaker 6: I believe like close to half a dozen times that
• 1:44:24
  Speaker 6: he did not mention anything to Mexico City about her,
• 1:44:28
  Speaker 6: and that he was staying back in New Orleans to
• 1:44:30
  Speaker 6: look for more work. And we do know they did
• 1:44:33
  Speaker 6: travel separately.
• 1:44:34
  Speaker 5: But later then she also said that Oswald did tell
• 1:44:36
  Speaker 5: her that he was going to Mexica. Right, She did
• 1:44:40
  Speaker 5: act that he went to Mexico and gave her the gifts.
• 1:44:43
  Speaker 6: Right, But initially at least at least six times, I think,
• 1:44:49
  Speaker 6: I think I think it might have even been eight.
• 1:44:51
  Speaker 6: But she said no, but again, Marina's Marina. So and
• 1:44:58
  Speaker 6: then you have the whole. And we didn't really discuss this,
• 1:45:01
  Speaker 6: that November ninth letter might not be real. There's some
• 1:45:08
  Speaker 6: suspicion that it's not real. I don't know.
• 1:45:14
  Speaker 5: If it's not real, who wrote it, and how would
• 1:45:18
  Speaker 5: and how would whoever wrote it know that he had
• 1:45:20
  Speaker 5: met with Russian and the guys that the Russian embassy
• 1:45:26
  Speaker 5: and call him almost by name, not specifically.
• 1:45:29
  Speaker 6: But Costa, not Costakov, right, I mean.
• 1:45:34
  Speaker 5: That's a pretty lucky guess.
• 1:45:36
  Speaker 6: Yeah it is.
• 1:45:39
  Speaker 5: But if you if you're saying like Ruth wrote the
• 1:45:42
  Speaker 5: letter or something, no, no, But.
• 1:45:44
  Speaker 6: I'm saying, if you, if you have the plotters writing
• 1:45:47
  Speaker 6: the letter, they would know you know some some details.
• 1:45:54
  Speaker 6: So if you're gonna make me choose one side or
• 1:45:57
  Speaker 6: the other, rob And again I have not come to
• 1:46:00
  Speaker 6: this decision lightly, God damn it. I'm going to say
• 1:46:09
  Speaker 6: the evidence that supports Lee being in Mexico City is
• 1:46:15
  Speaker 6: extremely problematic. I think it was meant to frame him
• 1:46:26
  Speaker 6: to prompt an invasion of Cuba. And I'm going to say, no,
• 1:46:33
  Speaker 6: he was not.
• 1:46:37
  Speaker 5: Framed by whom.
• 1:46:39
  Speaker 6: Cuban exiles at a jan Way and in New Orleans.
• 1:46:44
  Speaker 5: Cuban exiles framed him in Mexico City.
• 1:46:48
  Speaker 6: Yeah. Yeah, I think that their intelligent contacts would have known,
• 1:46:56
  Speaker 6: would have had that the knowledge, not like Brigner, but
• 1:47:05
  Speaker 6: like people like Emilio Rodriguez and other people. I think
• 1:47:12
  Speaker 6: work could have got around and I think they could
• 1:47:14
  Speaker 6: have kind of poison pilled the trip in a sense,
• 1:47:19
  Speaker 6: knowing that CIA would have needed to cover it up
• 1:47:23
  Speaker 6: to protect their operations. La envoy li feet. So you
• 1:47:30
  Speaker 6: made me choose. I was going to give an eighty percentage, yes,
• 1:47:34
  Speaker 6: but you made me choose one way or the other.
• 1:47:36
  Speaker 6: So that is my thoughts as of now, subject to change.
• 1:47:45
  Speaker 6: How about you, sir? What do you think of What
• 1:47:49
  Speaker 6: do you think about that?
• 1:47:51
  Speaker 5: So, Joe's not a belief that Oswald was impersonated in
• 1:47:55
  Speaker 5: Mexico City, and there are good reasons to believe that,
• 1:48:01
  Speaker 5: many of which we've talked about in the past three
• 1:48:03
  Speaker 5: shows and all that good stuff, oh man. And I'm
• 1:48:08
  Speaker 5: not opposed to the theory. I'm just I'm more convinced
• 1:48:16
  Speaker 5: by the evidence that Oswald was in Mexico City. And
• 1:48:23
  Speaker 5: the only reason I'm saying this is, like I said,
• 1:48:29
  Speaker 5: there's just I can't get to the great grand conspiracy
• 1:48:33
  Speaker 5: of all of these different people from different walks of
• 1:48:35
  Speaker 5: life admitting to interacting or seeing Oswald in Mexico City.
• 1:48:43
  Speaker 5: All right again, you have so many people claiming to
• 1:48:47
  Speaker 5: have seen him there, dealt with him there. Yeah, it's
• 1:48:51
  Speaker 5: a problem. We don't have him, you know, on surveillance.
• 1:48:57
  Speaker 5: But I'm thinking it was covered up in some form
• 1:49:00
  Speaker 5: or fashion for other reasons that would have led back
• 1:49:07
  Speaker 5: to something to see see how I didn't want to
• 1:49:09
  Speaker 5: admit that they were doing in essence, opening a can
• 1:49:14
  Speaker 5: of worms, if you will, better to keep the lid
• 1:49:17
  Speaker 5: on the can of worms than to open it and
• 1:49:19
  Speaker 5: admit kind of what was going on back then, because
• 1:49:24
  Speaker 5: our government was actively trying to fund Cuban exile organizations
• 1:49:32
  Speaker 5: under the hopes that they would go back and topple
• 1:49:35
  Speaker 5: Castro out of power. Eventually, like I said, there was
• 1:49:39
  Speaker 5: going to be another Cuban exile invasion of Cuba, similar
• 1:49:42
  Speaker 5: to the Bay of Pigs schedule for the end of
• 1:49:43
  Speaker 5: November that never happened. You see how heavily our government
• 1:49:50
  Speaker 5: was funding these Cuban exile groups, to the tune of
• 1:49:54
  Speaker 5: millions of dollars in today's money every month, to multiple
• 1:49:59
  Speaker 5: not just to one, but to multiple different Cuban exile organizations,
• 1:50:06
  Speaker 5: and I think that those guys were being steered towards
• 1:50:11
  Speaker 5: doing something. And I think that some of these Cuban
• 1:50:15
  Speaker 5: exiles got disenfranchised by the way that our CIA and
• 1:50:22
  Speaker 5: government operates and how they were being used as tools
• 1:50:29
  Speaker 5: for our US government to go take out and deal
• 1:50:32
  Speaker 5: with their own country. I mean, we could have easily
• 1:50:38
  Speaker 5: easily penetrated Cuba and top of Castor anytime we want to,
• 1:50:44
  Speaker 5: but it would have created an international incident because the
• 1:50:46
  Speaker 5: Russians are there, and you don't want to start a
• 1:50:51
  Speaker 5: nuclear war with Russia in nineteen sixty three, which is
• 1:50:55
  Speaker 5: the big fear, right, that's the big fear. You know,
• 1:51:00
  Speaker 5: Americans did every every minute. You know, whatever LBJ said,
• 1:51:04
  Speaker 5: you know, he didn't want that on his conscience. Nobody
• 1:51:08
  Speaker 5: wants that on their conscience.
• 1:51:09
  Speaker 6: Set it to Warren and yeah, Russell.
• 1:51:13
  Speaker 5: Obviously our government was behind the scenes using different assets
• 1:51:18
  Speaker 5: from the mafia to try to kill Castro, trying to
• 1:51:21
  Speaker 5: use Cuban exiles to kill Castro. The problem is that
• 1:51:25
  Speaker 5: they just weren't that well organized, They didn't have the
• 1:51:29
  Speaker 5: right resources. They just couldn't get the ship off the ground.
• 1:51:33
  Speaker 5: You know, it's hard to organize a big force, an
• 1:51:35
  Speaker 5: invasion force, you know, launching from you know, Guatemala or
• 1:51:40
  Speaker 5: Nicaragua to Cuba. So it didn't look like they were
• 1:51:43
  Speaker 5: coming from here, you know what I mean. You can't
• 1:51:46
  Speaker 5: have them leaving from here, right because it still looks
• 1:51:49
  Speaker 5: like we, you know, ordered them to do it, you know,
• 1:51:53
  Speaker 5: and organized them and trained them and everything else, and
• 1:51:55
  Speaker 5: sent them to go take care of their own ship
• 1:51:57
  Speaker 5: and castro in their country. But back to Mexico City,
• 1:52:05
  Speaker 5: I think the audio incident doesn't prove to me one
• 1:52:07
  Speaker 5: way or the other if that was Lee Harvey Oswald
• 1:52:09
  Speaker 5: or not. I'm not convinced one way or the other
• 1:52:13
  Speaker 5: that it was or wasn't him, And I don't really
• 1:52:17
  Speaker 5: think that it matters too much because I think it
• 1:52:20
  Speaker 5: happened early enough in the trip that if it was him,
• 1:52:25
  Speaker 5: he could have still been there and then went to Mexico.
• 1:52:31
  Speaker 6: Right.
• 1:52:34
  Speaker 5: But you know, again, if he was there, then that
• 1:52:37
  Speaker 5: puts him in the company of two Cuban exiles who
• 1:52:41
  Speaker 5: were obviously with him on this trip. And he didn't
• 1:52:45
  Speaker 5: take a bus from New Orleans to Dallas, probably got
• 1:52:48
  Speaker 5: driven there. And this leads up to like Hancock and
• 1:52:52
  Speaker 5: Boiler's theory about how the rifle get to Dallas if
• 1:52:56
  Speaker 5: it wasn't in Ruth Payne's car. Right, So if these
• 1:53:00
  Speaker 5: guys take Oswald and some of it belonging to Dallas
• 1:53:05
  Speaker 5: with the idea that he's supposed to get on this
• 1:53:07
  Speaker 5: bus and go down to Mexico City and do this
• 1:53:10
  Speaker 5: thing with the embassy, obviously he can't take the rifle
• 1:53:12
  Speaker 5: with him, so they hang on to it and use
• 1:53:16
  Speaker 5: it to frame him later. Or it wasn't Ruth Payne's
• 1:53:21
  Speaker 5: blanket or Ruth Payne's car wrapped in a blanket and
• 1:53:25
  Speaker 5: eventually in her garage, and then he got it later
• 1:53:28
  Speaker 5: on and took it into the school book depository for
• 1:53:30
  Speaker 5: whatever reason, because he didn't purchase it. AJ Haddell purchased
• 1:53:35
  Speaker 5: it a pro Castro guy, president of the Fair Play
• 1:53:40
  Speaker 5: for Cuba Committee in New Orleans. That's who bought the rifle.
• 1:53:46
  Speaker 5: So this whole thing is so just marked up, fucked up.
• 1:53:52
  Speaker 5: I just think you have to If Ozwald wasn't there,
• 1:53:57
  Speaker 5: then you have to you have to have him somewhere else,
• 1:53:59
  Speaker 5: and we have him. No credible sightings of Oswald anywhere
• 1:54:02
  Speaker 5: in that time span, other than possibly the audio thing,
• 1:54:05
  Speaker 5: which I think is early enough in the timeline to
• 1:54:08
  Speaker 5: say it really doesn't matter either way. So based on
• 1:54:15
  Speaker 5: the weight of actual eye witnesses and people that dealt
• 1:54:19
  Speaker 5: with him allegedly that are not connected, that have no
• 1:54:23
  Speaker 5: skin in the game, that have no reason to lie whatsoever,
• 1:54:28
  Speaker 5: that aren't connected to intelligence community, that had dealings with
• 1:54:35
  Speaker 5: him in Russia, then I'm gonna say, yeah, he was there,
• 1:54:40
  Speaker 5: but the evidence of it is so screwed up because
• 1:54:44
  Speaker 5: of our intelligence community wanting to cover their ass about
• 1:54:47
  Speaker 5: other things, which fucks the evidence all up, which is
• 1:54:52
  Speaker 5: why we don't have pictures, or maybe we did. And
• 1:54:55
  Speaker 5: when Scott was told him to, hey, put them in
• 1:54:56
  Speaker 5: your fucking safe and don't let him out. Bad eyes Angleton. Yeah,
• 1:55:05
  Speaker 5: he could use him for something, so he's gonna get him. Yeah,
• 1:55:09
  Speaker 5: you know, mister, I must steal your diary, Mary Mary
• 1:55:11
  Speaker 5: Pinchot Meyer, Miss, I must steal your diary, Miss Marilyn Monroe. Mister,
• 1:55:16
  Speaker 5: I'm gonna get you getting your safe, mister win Scott,
• 1:55:19
  Speaker 5: you know, And I'm sure they were the only ones.
• 1:55:23
  Speaker 6: Yeah, So, I mean, I I respect your view a lot. Uh,
• 1:55:31
  Speaker 6: It's I'm just.
• 1:55:32
  Speaker 5: Telling you how I get there. I just can't. I
• 1:55:36
  Speaker 5: can't just believe in the Great Grand Conspiracy that all
• 1:55:38
  Speaker 5: these other people that don't know each other are not
• 1:55:40
  Speaker 5: connected or just lying about Oswald being there for what reason?
• 1:55:45
  Speaker 6: Right? I mean, you can get too hippie broads to lie.
• 1:55:50
  Speaker 6: And if he was driven there, as you kind of
• 1:55:54
  Speaker 6: implied that he could have been, then they have to
• 1:55:57
  Speaker 6: be in a sense. Right.
• 1:56:00
  Speaker 5: Well, there's even a document out there that has Oswald
• 1:56:02
  Speaker 5: crossing the border in a car and not a bus.
• 1:56:07
  Speaker 5: I don't have it handy, but it does exist.
• 1:56:09
  Speaker 6: So see objective Just to confuse.
• 1:56:13
  Speaker 5: Like I said, I think the FBI trying to piece
• 1:56:15
  Speaker 5: together this bus route just fucked everything up because you
• 1:56:17
  Speaker 5: can't you can't figure it out. It's just a it's
• 1:56:23
  Speaker 5: just a supposition because again, you didn't have to show
• 1:56:26
  Speaker 5: your ID to get on a fucking bus in sixty three.
• 1:56:29
  Speaker 6: I don't think you have to show an idea to
• 1:56:30
  Speaker 6: get it on a bus.
• 1:56:31
  Speaker 5: Now, right. He would have only needed his passport to
• 1:56:36
  Speaker 5: get into Mexico at the border Nuevo Laredo. From Laredo
• 1:56:41
  Speaker 5: to Nuevo Laredo. That should be the only thing we're
• 1:56:46
  Speaker 5: paying attention to. And if we have a border crossing
• 1:56:48
  Speaker 5: document that says that they you know Jack le Rvey
• 1:56:53
  Speaker 5: osweld passport and let him in the country. Then that's
• 1:56:57
  Speaker 5: all I need. Fuck all the rest the bus fucked
• 1:57:00
  Speaker 5: the passengers, Okay, you know, I mean why would two
• 1:57:04
  Speaker 5: chicks lie?
• 1:57:06
  Speaker 6: Right? But you also have and listen, I'm like, I
• 1:57:11
  Speaker 6: was gonna say eighty percent not there, twenty percent there
• 1:57:17
  Speaker 6: and impersonated as well, but you didn't let me go there.
• 1:57:21
  Speaker 6: But you also have those authorities kind of on the
• 1:57:26
  Speaker 6: payroll of American intelligence services as well.
• 1:57:33
  Speaker 5: Maybe you approve of it.
• 1:57:35
  Speaker 6: Maybe how did they get Sylvia Duran arrested the next
• 1:57:40
  Speaker 6: day because the Mexican authorities decided to do so?
• 1:57:45
  Speaker 5: Well? No, I mean I'm saying if you're talking about
• 1:57:47
  Speaker 5: like the girls on the bus.
• 1:57:49
  Speaker 6: Yeah, I mean they could have been two scuffoozs.
• 1:57:52
  Speaker 5: Are they agents?
• 1:57:55
  Speaker 6: No? I think they could have been paid off or whatever.
• 1:57:59
  Speaker 5: I mean, I don't know.
• 1:58:00
  Speaker 6: Only one of them testified to the Warm Commission. We
• 1:58:04
  Speaker 6: went through their testimonies the first time.
• 1:58:07
  Speaker 5: The point is an argument for me. So they could
• 1:58:10
  Speaker 5: have been paid off to say the hosehold on the bus,
• 1:58:13
  Speaker 5: but he really wasn't, That is what you're saying.
• 1:58:16
  Speaker 6: I said, could be.
• 1:58:18
  Speaker 5: Again, this is the great grand conspiracy.
• 1:58:20
  Speaker 6: Joe that Well, these are two women that are traveling
• 1:58:24
  Speaker 6: the country.
• 1:58:25
  Speaker 5: You have mc farlane's You got these two women. You
• 1:58:27
  Speaker 5: got the old man, you got the bus driver.
• 1:58:31
  Speaker 6: We don't know how scaffoozi they were.
• 1:58:34
  Speaker 5: Either got the guy at the hotel. You got six
• 1:58:38
  Speaker 5: people with the Cuban embassy, three people with the Russian embassy.
• 1:58:43
  Speaker 6: I agree with that.
• 1:58:45
  Speaker 5: Philbey, Duran's buddy Lapaz, he says she was at a
• 1:58:47
  Speaker 5: twist party with him. You got all these. You got
• 1:58:51
  Speaker 5: Neguel saying he met him in fucking Mexico City. You
• 1:58:54
  Speaker 5: got Clayton Buick saying he met him in Mexico City.
• 1:58:56
  Speaker 6: Okay, those are not two names to bring up.
• 1:59:01
  Speaker 5: I was just saying I didn't be crazier than anything else.
• 1:59:05
  Speaker 6: No, that's not. That's why this As we weave back
• 1:59:10
  Speaker 6: to how when we first started last Friday and after
• 1:59:15
  Speaker 6: Wednesday's members only, that's one of the most suspicious and
• 1:59:21
  Speaker 6: confusing parts of this very crazy case. And there's a
• 1:59:26
  Speaker 6: lot of.
• 1:59:28
  Speaker 5: And I think it's because of the cover up that
• 1:59:30
  Speaker 5: went down to hopefully partially erase that memory of Oswald
• 1:59:37
  Speaker 5: going to Mexico City and going to the Cuban and
• 1:59:41
  Speaker 5: Russian embassies. Yeah, it's not a good look.
• 1:59:47
  Speaker 6: Listen. I'm not disagreeing with you whatsoever. I go back
• 1:59:51
  Speaker 6: and forth very often.
• 1:59:54
  Speaker 5: But so if you have the CIA trying to erase
• 1:59:57
  Speaker 5: it from happening, and you have the FBI trying to
• 1:59:59
  Speaker 5: prove that it did, and both of them were fabricating
• 2:00:02
  Speaker 5: and fucking with the evidence, then you got a recipe
• 2:00:06
  Speaker 5: for disaster, which I think what we have here.
• 2:00:10
  Speaker 6: It is definitely a recipe for disaster.
• 2:00:14
  Speaker 5: So well, I think if you would believe in the
• 2:00:21
  Speaker 5: John Armstrong theory of Oswald in Mexico and Harvey and Lee,
• 2:00:26
  Speaker 5: then that's a whole other rabbit hole, right, but it
• 2:00:31
  Speaker 5: explains a lot of things when you can have two
• 2:00:34
  Speaker 5: Oswalts and two places at once, and it.
• 2:00:38
  Speaker 6: Would, yeah, for sure. But yeah, do you want to
• 2:00:44
  Speaker 6: see if we could read a couple of comments before
• 2:00:47
  Speaker 6: we had out tail. I've already needed the I already
• 2:00:55
  Speaker 6: have one hand on the damn you know what, So
• 2:01:00
  Speaker 6: she doesn't leave, so let me use my left hand here.
• 2:01:07
  Speaker 6: No course, no passport needed to get into Mexico. And yeah,
• 2:01:12
  Speaker 6: I guess not. Maybe maybe you get back.
• 2:01:16
  Speaker 5: I'm pretty sure you needed to a passport to get
• 2:01:19
  Speaker 5: into Mexico.
• 2:01:19
  Speaker 6: Then hold on, Le'm just going hold her ruby.
• 2:01:27
  Speaker 5: Let's read some comments, or else you wouldn't have got
• 2:01:30
  Speaker 5: one in June.
• 2:01:32
  Speaker 6: Scott Edwards, you don't need a grand conspiracy. Many people
• 2:01:35
  Speaker 6: in New Orleans, else and elsewhere said they saw an
• 2:01:39
  Speaker 6: interacted with Oswald in situations that were unlikely. I think
• 2:01:43
  Speaker 6: there's like four three or four sightings of Oswalt and
• 2:01:48
  Speaker 6: Dallas among that time.
• 2:01:51
  Speaker 5: But right, like, but I mean, wait between the people
• 2:01:55
  Speaker 5: in Mexico City that say they saw him and interacted
• 2:01:57
  Speaker 5: with him, rather than some jack off at his gas
• 2:02:01
  Speaker 5: station said he saw Oswald put gas in his car,
• 2:02:05
  Speaker 5: he didn't have one and he didn't drive.
• 2:02:11
  Speaker 8: Uh, let's see, Oswald didn't twist, and he certainly didn't
• 2:02:20
  Speaker 8: have sexual relations with that woman.
• 2:02:24
  Speaker 6: Just of course a Clinton quote.
• 2:02:27
  Speaker 5: Uh any from Marina. I mean there's marriage is on
• 2:02:31
  Speaker 5: the rocks. Verry wouldn't turn it. I mean you're in
• 2:02:34
  Speaker 5: another country. That's like being in a different area code
• 2:02:36
  Speaker 5: around here. Yeah, I mean all fair, all's fair.
• 2:02:42
  Speaker 6: Nowhere with Iren, I like your name. Uh, and yeah,
• 2:02:44
  Speaker 6: I mean we obviously know his relationship with Judy Baker. Uh.
• 2:02:50
  Speaker 6: They needed Mexico City to frame Oswalt as a Marxist
• 2:02:54
  Speaker 6: so that they could make the case that he was
• 2:02:57
  Speaker 6: acting with the encouragement of the Cuban and Russians. But
• 2:03:01
  Speaker 6: Oswald was never a Marxist.
• 2:03:04
  Speaker 5: Well, Ozwa was framing himself in New Orleans before he
• 2:03:07
  Speaker 5: even went to Mexico City, so they didn't need him
• 2:03:10
  Speaker 5: to go to Mexico to frame him as a Marxist.
• 2:03:13
  Speaker 5: He was doing that. Just find himself here in the
• 2:03:16
  Speaker 5: United States.
• 2:03:18
  Speaker 6: Sally, I think he won that. Rob. Well, it's not
• 2:03:22
  Speaker 6: about winning or losing. Everyone's going to have their own.
• 2:03:25
  Speaker 5: I'm just telling you why I think the way I do.
• 2:03:27
  Speaker 5: I'm not trying. I'm not saying I'm right and he's wrong,
• 2:03:30
  Speaker 5: or yeah, right now I'm wrong. I'm just saying this
• 2:03:33
  Speaker 5: is how I get to my conclusion. Yeah, based on
• 2:03:37
  Speaker 5: a preponderance of not just one thing, but a lot
• 2:03:40
  Speaker 5: of different things.
• 2:03:41
  Speaker 6: Right. And I'm going off the fact of after reviewing
• 2:03:46
  Speaker 6: a ton of these witness statements of people in Mexico
• 2:03:50
  Speaker 6: City or people's on the bus, a lot of them
• 2:03:53
  Speaker 6: are problematic to me, and it seems like they weren't
• 2:03:58
  Speaker 6: trying to fit the story together. And whether that was
• 2:04:02
  Speaker 6: because of trying to you know, conceal some intelligence activities.
• 2:04:08
  Speaker 6: I one hundred percent respect and can see that option
• 2:04:12
  Speaker 6: as well. So I mean he just made me pick
• 2:04:16
  Speaker 6: a side.
• 2:04:16
  Speaker 5: So and whether he did go or he didn't go,
• 2:04:19
  Speaker 5: and whether or whether he did do what he's accused
• 2:04:22
  Speaker 5: of doing there or he didn't. You know, it's when
• 2:04:27
  Speaker 5: you're talking about I think it doesn't you know, it
• 2:04:30
  Speaker 5: doesn't make me alone nutter to think Oswald went to Mexico, right, No, no, no,
• 2:04:37
  Speaker 5: I mean it fits perfectly in the pattern and the
• 2:04:40
  Speaker 5: trajectory he was on himself, you know, and doing what
• 2:04:45
  Speaker 5: he was doing, writing letters, trying to go back to Russia.
• 2:04:50
  Speaker 5: They won't let him back in. He gets desperate. He
• 2:04:54
  Speaker 5: starts ramping up that the Procastro bullshit in New Orleans,
• 2:04:59
  Speaker 5: you know, make himself look better, to get newspaper articles
• 2:05:02
  Speaker 5: written about him, to get on the radio right, to
• 2:05:05
  Speaker 5: prove that he's a Castro supporter, try to get to Cuba,
• 2:05:08
  Speaker 5: to get to Russia. There's nothing left for him here
• 2:05:12
  Speaker 5: in America. He's a nobody here. He makes shit money.
• 2:05:17
  Speaker 5: They got nothing, They don't have a pot to piss in.
• 2:05:21
  Speaker 5: Marine increats him like shit.
• 2:05:23
  Speaker 6: He's eating lunch with the black eyes in the Domino room.
• 2:05:27
  Speaker 5: Well, that's not a bad thing.
• 2:05:29
  Speaker 6: Well in nineteen sixty three, maybe.
• 2:05:32
  Speaker 5: I'd rather eat lunch with the black guys in the
• 2:05:34
  Speaker 5: Domino room by myself in the basement. Frazier.
• 2:05:42
  Speaker 6: Oh all right, Well I thought that was a good
• 2:05:46
  Speaker 6: back and forth.
• 2:05:47
  Speaker 5: I'm done with my point here yet, Joe.
• 2:05:50
  Speaker 6: Sorry.
• 2:05:50
  Speaker 5: I think the problem with this whole thing is people
• 2:05:55
  Speaker 5: get caught up in the idea of a conspiracy. Most people,
• 2:06:00
  Speaker 5: well including myself, think that there was a conspiracy abound
• 2:06:05
  Speaker 5: here to kill Kennedy. Okay, but everything in this case
• 2:06:13
  Speaker 5: is not a conspiracy. Everything is not lies, everything is
• 2:06:18
  Speaker 5: not cover up, right, But some things are. Some things
• 2:06:25
  Speaker 5: you can make a good case that they are, for sure.
• 2:06:29
  Speaker 5: But everything, every little aspect does not have to be
• 2:06:37
  Speaker 5: does not have to have a conspiratorial bent to it.
• 2:06:40
  Speaker 6: It's not does not have to be fake.
• 2:06:43
  Speaker 5: Right, things can be true about Oswald and you can
• 2:06:49
  Speaker 5: still not put him on the sixth floor at twelve
• 2:06:52
  Speaker 5: thirty shooting the president. Right, But it's hard to deny,
• 2:06:57
  Speaker 5: you know, you can think that Oswald was being sheep dipped,
• 2:07:00
  Speaker 5: because this is what makes sense in the conspirator from
• 2:07:02
  Speaker 5: the conspiratorial set of mindset. But if you actually look
• 2:07:06
  Speaker 5: at Oswald's life, just like when I was telling somebody
• 2:07:11
  Speaker 5: I think I was telling Doug, I was like, god
• 2:07:13
  Speaker 5: damn it. Later Hancocks on to turn me into a
• 2:07:15
  Speaker 5: fucking low nutter, right, because the whole point of the
• 2:07:20
  Speaker 5: Oswald puzzle their book, and they make a damn good
• 2:07:24
  Speaker 5: case for it, is that Oswald was in fact a
• 2:07:27
  Speaker 5: fucking Marxist and that he wasn't being set up by
• 2:07:32
  Speaker 5: the intelligence community in that instance, you know, to make
• 2:07:36
  Speaker 5: him look a certain way. He was doing just fine,
• 2:07:38
  Speaker 5: making him own, making him his own self look a
• 2:07:40
  Speaker 5: certain way, like they didn't need to step in and
• 2:07:43
  Speaker 5: do anything different, right, because at that point, he's he's
• 2:07:49
  Speaker 5: he's just doing it because this is what he believes.
• 2:07:53
  Speaker 5: And if he's been enamored by the Marxist theorism since
• 2:07:56
  Speaker 5: he was fifteen and he got this pamphlet on the
• 2:07:58
  Speaker 5: Rosenbergs or whatever whatever started all this shit, I mean,
• 2:08:04
  Speaker 5: you have to account for everything in his life, you know,
• 2:08:06
  Speaker 5: people calling him you know, Oswaldovich and the Marines, you know,
• 2:08:10
  Speaker 5: and and this that and the other, him defecting, you know,
• 2:08:13
  Speaker 5: either and of course, you know, it gets obvious scated
• 2:08:17
  Speaker 5: because we know that we were sending false defectors into Russia.
• 2:08:22
  Speaker 5: But then if you have one guy who literally believes
• 2:08:25
  Speaker 5: in communism and wants to go live there, well then
• 2:08:29
  Speaker 5: he automatically must be ran by the CIA in a
• 2:08:33
  Speaker 5: defective program. Right, But we have no fucking proof of
• 2:08:37
  Speaker 5: that whatsoever. We have no documentation, no proof whatsoever that
• 2:08:41
  Speaker 5: Oswald was in a false deffective program. Period. They didn't
• 2:08:47
  Speaker 5: that Russians didn't treat him, you know, any different one
• 2:08:52
  Speaker 5: way or the other. They didn't think that he was right.
• 2:08:56
  Speaker 6: They wanted to get him out of the Monsco.
• 2:08:59
  Speaker 5: Yeah, they had. They really felt no no way about
• 2:09:03
  Speaker 5: him whatsoever, like he was no threat. Basically, that's why
• 2:09:08
  Speaker 5: they let him stay there so long. Right, that this
• 2:09:10
  Speaker 5: guy is a dumb ass. Okay, well we can let
• 2:09:14
  Speaker 5: the dumb ass live here in fucking Mince with that
• 2:09:18
  Speaker 5: whoord Marina, uh you know, and get honey potted for whoever.
• 2:09:24
  Speaker 5: She's working for the CCP, the Communist Party of Russia,
• 2:09:29
  Speaker 5: but you know, not the KGB, which is what the guys,
• 2:09:35
  Speaker 5: or at least Old Netchapranco said that she was working
• 2:09:37
  Speaker 5: for the c c CP, the Communist Party of Russia,
• 2:09:41
  Speaker 5: which is different than the KGB. They're a different kind
• 2:09:45
  Speaker 5: of intelligence organization back then. So, yeah, Jack, there was
• 2:09:52
  Speaker 5: Operation Redskin, but we have zero proof that Oswald was
• 2:09:55
  Speaker 5: ever a part of any of that. And I do
• 2:10:00
  Speaker 5: believe that the CIA was keeping tabs on him because
• 2:10:03
  Speaker 5: he did defect the Russia. Surely his name would have
• 2:10:05
  Speaker 5: been put on some kind of a watchlist. They would
• 2:10:08
  Speaker 5: have checked him out, seeing what his background was, wonder
• 2:10:12
  Speaker 5: what the fuck is this guy doing, you know, and see, oh, well,
• 2:10:15
  Speaker 5: you know, for some reason, he's enamored with Marxism, so
• 2:10:19
  Speaker 5: he wants to go ohere to live, So all right,
• 2:10:21
  Speaker 5: well fuck him. Let him go live there then, you know,
• 2:10:23
  Speaker 5: or we can talk to him and he get if
• 2:10:24
  Speaker 5: he ever comes back, you don't see what's going on.
• 2:10:27
  Speaker 5: But other than that, you know whatever, because we have
• 2:10:32
  Speaker 5: no proof whatsoever that Oswald told the Russians anything about anything. Yeah,
• 2:10:40
  Speaker 5: but I'm just saying, like, you know, everything, even if
• 2:10:42
  Speaker 5: you believe there was a conspiracy, everything inside the conspiracy
• 2:10:46
  Speaker 5: doesn't have to be a conspiracy because you start looking
• 2:10:53
  Speaker 5: at all of this through rose colored glasses, which tends
• 2:10:56
  Speaker 5: everything that you're seeing and everything must be a conspiracy,
• 2:11:02
  Speaker 5: like somebody must be running Oswald or he's some super
• 2:11:07
  Speaker 5: secret you know, CIA agent who's really not a Marxist.
• 2:11:12
  Speaker 5: He's really a great American and he's just acting like
• 2:11:16
  Speaker 5: this for some reason. What's the reason. I don't know.
• 2:11:22
  Speaker 5: I don't have a good reason why he would do that.
• 2:11:27
  Speaker 5: And we have no proof whatsoever that he was an
• 2:11:30
  Speaker 5: FBI agent word or working for the FBI as and informant.
• 2:11:33
  Speaker 5: There's allegations, sure, there's allegations for a lot of people.
• 2:11:39
  Speaker 5: You know, just talking to somebody who works at the
• 2:11:42
  Speaker 5: FBI make you an informant. I mean, he has to
• 2:11:50
  Speaker 5: talk to him in jail, They talked to him when
• 2:11:52
  Speaker 5: he got back. They're obviously going to check on him
• 2:11:55
  Speaker 5: because he brings us Russian wife back here.
• 2:12:00
  Speaker 6: Mm hmm.
• 2:12:01
  Speaker 5: So yeah, the nepies keep tabs on him. They're gonna
• 2:12:03
  Speaker 5: stop and talk to him in the car. They're gonna
• 2:12:05
  Speaker 5: come to his house.
• 2:12:10
  Speaker 6: Yeah, And I believe it's it's Larry stance that he
• 2:12:14
  Speaker 6: believes he was considered to be an informant like he
• 2:12:18
  Speaker 6: was put on because it is an FBI agent's duty
• 2:12:22
  Speaker 6: to recruit recruit a certain number of informants every month.
• 2:12:27
  Speaker 6: So but does that make him an actual informant. I
• 2:12:30
  Speaker 6: don't know. I mean, you know, you know what I'm saying.
• 2:12:41
  Speaker 5: Yeah, Like and like Tinny says here, the Marine Corps
• 2:12:46
  Speaker 5: so soft hearted. They funded him and gave him a
• 2:12:49
  Speaker 5: compassionate early discharge and funded his Marcus fantasy. Yeah, and
• 2:12:54
  Speaker 5: then and then bend him over the table and and
• 2:12:57
  Speaker 5: and uh changed it to an un what's it? You know,
• 2:13:03
  Speaker 5: a dishonorable discharge which screws up his health insurance and
• 2:13:09
  Speaker 5: his pension right.
• 2:13:11
  Speaker 6: Which of course he was very upset about. And then
• 2:13:14
  Speaker 6: that's how you get to the Dean Andrews situation. And
• 2:13:21
  Speaker 6: you know what I mean, it's murky, man, it's murky.
• 2:13:32
  Speaker 6: I just found as we went through a lot of
• 2:13:35
  Speaker 6: these people's statements, and I totally agree with you to
• 2:13:39
  Speaker 6: have these number of people all in on the conspiracy
• 2:13:43
  Speaker 6: per se, but also they could be all in on
• 2:13:46
  Speaker 6: the cover your ass mode conspiracy in terms of like
• 2:13:51
  Speaker 6: the KGB people or the Cuban embassy people. And you know,
• 2:13:58
  Speaker 6: obviously Alvarado was full of so who the hell knows
• 2:14:04
  Speaker 6: not to land on the fence because you maybe not
• 2:14:06
  Speaker 6: land on one, but fascinating aspect of the case, right, Rob, fascinating.
• 2:14:14
  Speaker 5: Yeah, at the end of the day, who knows. I'm
• 2:14:19
  Speaker 5: just telling you how I got to where I got.
• 2:14:20
  Speaker 5: Joe's telling you where he got to how he got.
• 2:14:23
  Speaker 5: Everybody's on a different journey of this stuff. I mean,
• 2:14:26
  Speaker 5: you look at somebody like Larry who's been in this
• 2:14:28
  Speaker 5: way longer than us, and looked at this twenty wave
• 2:14:31
  Speaker 5: from Sunday, talked to brilliant people, interviewed brilliant people, written
• 2:14:37
  Speaker 5: written books about this stuff, study I don't know how
• 2:14:39
  Speaker 5: many documents, and the longer he gets into this, the
• 2:14:43
  Speaker 5: more it makes sense to him what he believes. This
• 2:14:48
  Speaker 5: is why a lot of people don't like Larry Hancock's
• 2:14:50
  Speaker 5: new book.
• 2:14:51
  Speaker 6: Mhm.
• 2:14:52
  Speaker 5: But again, just because you believe that if Ozo was
• 2:14:56
  Speaker 5: a true Marxist and a Truecaster supporter, it's still doesn't
• 2:15:00
  Speaker 5: change the fact that there probably was a conspiracy and
• 2:15:03
  Speaker 5: he probably was a patsy right in the assassination of Kennedy.
• 2:15:07
  Speaker 5: He was just a very specific set of tools that
• 2:15:12
  Speaker 5: could be compromised and used because he painted himself in
• 2:15:16
  Speaker 5: a certain light and he has a certain pedigree, he
• 2:15:19
  Speaker 5: has a Russian wife, he did defect the Russia. You
• 2:15:23
  Speaker 5: know what I mean? He left the Marines to defect
• 2:15:25
  Speaker 5: the Russia, to marry a Russian wife, to move back here,
• 2:15:30
  Speaker 5: be disillusioned with Russia, be disillusioned when he moves back here.
• 2:15:35
  Speaker 5: He's got an overbearing mother, you know, his brothers aren't around.
• 2:15:38
  Speaker 5: But then to help him out. His family in New
• 2:15:42
  Speaker 5: Orleans and Marets are probably sick of fucking helping him out.
• 2:15:46
  Speaker 5: You generally got so many more doors to turn to.
• 2:15:49
  Speaker 6: Russians are probably sick of him writing to him. Marine
• 2:15:54
  Speaker 6: is sick of him.
• 2:15:56
  Speaker 5: The Texans Deployment Commission is probably tired of seeing him and.
• 2:15:59
  Speaker 6: Pay for sure. Yeah, I think Oswald definitely.
• 2:16:08
  Speaker 5: Can you can see where a guy like that.
• 2:16:12
  Speaker 6: Put himself in that situation.
• 2:16:14
  Speaker 5: It's a it's a very rapid downfall from August to November.
• 2:16:24
  Speaker 6: August, August sixty three at Riley's.
• 2:16:26
  Speaker 5: You mean no, he went at Riley's in August.
• 2:16:30
  Speaker 6: Oh are you talking? August sixty two at Jackers sixty three.
• 2:16:35
  Speaker 5: Okay, you didn't have a job.
• 2:16:37
  Speaker 6: Okay.
• 2:16:38
  Speaker 5: In August of sixty three, he's doing the fair play
• 2:16:41
  Speaker 5: for Cuba thing. He's getting in a fight with Brignia
• 2:16:44
  Speaker 5: he's writing fair play for Cuba, he's going on the radio,
• 2:16:48
  Speaker 5: he's building up his legend, his pro castro legend. In August,
• 2:16:53
  Speaker 5: Yeah right, and he takes all that shit to Mexico
• 2:16:56
  Speaker 5: City and puts it in front of Sylvia Durant and says,
• 2:16:58
  Speaker 5: look at all of this, even says he brought it there.
• 2:17:01
  Speaker 5: How the fuck would she know he even had it?
• 2:17:05
  Speaker 5: Whether you like it or not, there is a picture
• 2:17:07
  Speaker 5: of Oswald on the fucking Cuban visa application. Where did
• 2:17:10
  Speaker 5: they come up with that?
• 2:17:12
  Speaker 6: Yeah, it sounds like there's an iPhone where you could
• 2:17:17
  Speaker 6: just kind of google Oswald, you know, revolutionary, and.
• 2:17:23
  Speaker 5: Come up with It's not an old picture, it's it's
• 2:17:26
  Speaker 5: it's a picture that is nowhere else other than on
• 2:17:29
  Speaker 5: that Cuban visa application, because he had to leave the
• 2:17:31
  Speaker 5: consulate and go down to the drug store and have
• 2:17:34
  Speaker 5: his picture taken for that express purpose and bring it back.
• 2:17:41
  Speaker 5: So that photo is no other, you know, with his
• 2:17:43
  Speaker 5: sweater vest and his tie, it's nowhere else. So whether
• 2:17:47
  Speaker 5: like they used an old photo or something, yeah, I
• 2:17:52
  Speaker 5: don't know.
• 2:17:53
  Speaker 6: Yeah, man, it's fascinating for sure.
• 2:17:56
  Speaker 5: It's a rabbit hole, folks, It's a rabbit hole, one
• 2:18:00
  Speaker 5: of many, a deep one.
• 2:18:03
  Speaker 6: Was he even in Clinton? What was he doing there?
• 2:18:05
  Speaker 6: Or was he building his legend as well like.
• 2:18:13
  Speaker 5: Or did he just have nothing better to do because
• 2:18:14
  Speaker 5: he wasn't working and he's hanging out with his buddy
• 2:18:17
  Speaker 5: Dave Fairry. Who knows? I mean, I think Oswald was
• 2:18:24
  Speaker 5: used by a lot of different people. Yes, he was
• 2:18:29
  Speaker 5: used by a banister, used by Fairy in New Orleans
• 2:18:35
  Speaker 5: for their own purposes. Yeah, you know what I mean,
• 2:18:40
  Speaker 5: they knew what he was and they used them effectively
• 2:18:42
  Speaker 5: in their purpose. I think the Keeping exiles used him, yeah,
• 2:18:46
  Speaker 5: to support what they were trying to do. They might
• 2:18:48
  Speaker 5: even even set him up and been behind this whole thing,
• 2:18:51
  Speaker 5: which is I think kind of where Hancock and Boiling
• 2:18:54
  Speaker 5: are going. They haven't even got to Dallas yet in
• 2:18:58
  Speaker 5: their narrative. So when they do, you know, I think,
• 2:19:04
  Speaker 5: and I'm hoping that there will be a lot more
• 2:19:06
  Speaker 5: revelations to come out.
• 2:19:09
  Speaker 6: I hope.
• 2:19:09
  Speaker 5: So if.
• 2:19:13
  Speaker 6: If I can ever get to the archives get some access,
• 2:19:18
  Speaker 6: maybe there will be not saying a.
• 2:19:21
  Speaker 5: Lot of the directions and actually put the box numbers
• 2:19:24
  Speaker 5: on the application. It might help. We did just you
• 2:19:29
  Speaker 5: didn't for the Martins.
• 2:19:30
  Speaker 6: Is not for the Martins's, but for everything else.
• 2:19:34
  Speaker 5: Right, So they.
• 2:19:37
  Speaker 6: Denied me based on two out of the seven requests
• 2:19:41
  Speaker 6: I made. But they listen, they make it difficult by design,
• 2:19:46
  Speaker 6: but we'll get there. I'm gonna work on it this weekend,
• 2:19:51
  Speaker 6: and yeah, man, fascinating show.
• 2:19:55
  Speaker 5: Stay tuned for Joe's exploits from the Nara parking lot
• 2:20:00
  Speaker 5: with Paul Blow. They ran in Toyota Corolla. They take
• 2:20:08
  Speaker 5: turns holding their dicks in their hands and feeding the
• 2:20:12
  Speaker 5: birds in the parking lot while the two lawyers are
• 2:20:15
  Speaker 5: in there doing their due diligence. Well Mark hasn't even
• 2:20:20
  Speaker 5: heard about demanding funal reports.
• 2:20:25
  Speaker 6: That's such a mess that the archives. But I did
• 2:20:29
  Speaker 6: grab the damn dog earlier for a long little bit.
• 2:20:32
  Speaker 6: I don't know if I'll be able to get her.
• 2:20:35
  Speaker 5: Uh sorry, We'll let her go this time. Ruby, I
• 2:20:46
  Speaker 5: got her.
• 2:20:48
  Speaker 6: For the record. Show you what I think of the case.
• 2:20:53
  Speaker 5: Ruby, Oh, she can hear me. She has better hair
• 2:20:59
  Speaker 5: than you do, that is true. I'm gonna get a
• 2:21:04
  Speaker 5: dog whistle and we'll try that next time. Thank you, folks,
• 2:21:10
  Speaker 5: Thank you for the super chats Mike and Brandon. I
• 2:21:12
  Speaker 5: saw Mama Bee was in the house earlier. Welcome in,
• 2:21:16
  Speaker 5: Mama Bee, and have a good evening.
• 2:21:20
  Speaker 6: Crimes are committeed in the name of justice. The quotation
• 2:21:23
  Speaker 6: is Jim Gattison.
• 2:21:26
  Speaker 5: I love Yeah, thanks for hanging out with us and
• 2:21:30
  Speaker 5: putting up with our sufusiory.
• 2:21:32
  Speaker 10: Yes, try to get sides of the arguments. Yeah, hit
• 2:21:38
  Speaker 10: the like, ask the like going on your way out
• 2:21:42
  Speaker 10: the door, please and subscribe.
• 2:21:47
  Speaker 5: If you're not subscribe, damn it only five by the
• 2:21:51
  Speaker 5: end of the year. That'd be nice.
• 2:21:53
  Speaker 6: Ruby would appreciate it too, Ruby.
• 2:21:56
  Speaker 5: Yes, you need to work on her uh, her posture,
• 2:22:00
  Speaker 5: her sad face. You know, like one of those commercials
• 2:22:04
  Speaker 5: for you know, the animals that need need food.
• 2:22:07
  Speaker 6: Yeah, the ones I cry out.
• 2:22:11
  Speaker 5: Yeah, they're all eat up and limping around and ship Yeah.
• 2:22:19
  Speaker 5: All right, all right, thank you, Thank you everyone for
• 2:22:24
  Speaker 5: us and uh for low number Rob Yeah, and conspiracy
• 2:22:31
  Speaker 5: theorist Joe. That's it for us, and we'll see you,
• 2:22:38
  Speaker 5: uh hopefully or me for a book review in between
• 2:22:43
  Speaker 5: the next members only show. Allegedly all unless Joe's too busy.
• 2:22:53
  Speaker 5: You never know, you never know. He's got to redo
• 2:22:56
  Speaker 5: his whole application for now. That is true, all right, folks,
• 2:23:02
  Speaker 5: that's it for us. Have a great Friday evening, great weekend.
• 2:23:04
  Speaker 5: Thank you again for the super chats and supporting the show.
• 2:23:07
  Speaker 5: We love you and we'll see you soon. Oh and
• 2:23:12
  Speaker 5: a new episode of Rambling Research with Rambling Random Research
• 2:23:17
  Speaker 5: Ramblings Rob will be out Monday morning. Have a great weekend. Mouthful,
• 2:23:24
  Speaker 5: Yeah that's what she said. Peace late