Latest / Two Broke Chicks / How To Get Your Magic Back ft. Good Witch Author Lucianne Tonti

Transcript

How To Get Your Magic Back ft. Good Witch Author Lucianne Tonti · Two Broke Chicks

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: This podcast is recorded on Gadigal land. Always was, always
• 0:04
  Speaker 1: will be Aboriginal land. Hey chicks, I'm Sal.
• 0:11
  Speaker 2: And I'm Al.
• 0:12
  Speaker 3: And this is Two Broke Chicks, the show that shares
• 0:13
  Speaker 3: life lessons and tips to help make you rich in life.
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: And today we are joined by Luciane Tomty.
• 0:19
  Speaker 3: She's a journalist whose work includes being fashion editor of
• 0:22
  Speaker 3: the Saturday Paper, the sustainability editor at large for Elle
• 0:26
  Speaker 3: Australia and contributor to The Guardian and She's also the
• 0:30
  Speaker 3: author of Good Witch, In Search of Our Lost Feminine Power.
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: And so today, that's what we're chatting. We're going to be.
• 0:36
  Speaker 2: Doing a witchy life reset, exploring why modern women feel
• 0:39
  Speaker 2: disconnected from themselves, the five good witch archetypes, as well
• 0:44
  Speaker 2: as a lot more, and how to feel magical again.
• 0:47
  Speaker 4: So welcome, Lucianne.
• 0:48
  Speaker 5: Thanks so much for having me.
• 0:50
  Speaker 4: We are so excited for this chat. We are too excited.
• 0:53
  Speaker 2: Self-proclaimed witchy little girls, but I'm ready for you to
• 0:58
  Speaker 2: teach me. Yes.
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: Let the coven begin. Oh, my God, yes.
• 1:01
  Speaker 4: The power of three.
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: We'll set you free.
• 1:03
  Speaker 5: It's true.
• 1:04
  Speaker 3: Shit.
• 1:04
  Speaker 2: What's your favourite, before we get into it, very important question,
• 1:07
  Speaker 2: what's your favourite, like, pop culture representation of a witch?
• 1:12
  Speaker 5: Well, I love Bette Midler in Hocus Pocus.
• 1:15
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 1:16
  Speaker 5: I mean, I love all three of them.
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: My cat is named Binx.
• 1:19
  Speaker 5: No.
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: Yeah, black cat, Binx.
• 1:20
  Speaker 4: Okay.
• 1:21
  Speaker 5: Well, I mean, you are a witch.
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: Yes. Exactly.
• 1:24
  Speaker 5: Yeah. But I mean, there's so many. I also love
• 1:27
  Speaker 5: Practical Magic, so it's so exciting that that movie is
• 1:29
  Speaker 5: out this week. So, you know, yeah. Yeah.
• 1:32
  Speaker 4: Excellent choices. We stand by it. We stand by it.
• 1:35
  Speaker 1: The 90s really was like.
• 1:36
  Speaker 3: The witchy energy, like charmed, practical magic.
• 1:40
  Speaker 4: Sabrina.
• 1:41
  Speaker 2: Witch.
• 1:41
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 1:42
  Speaker 2: Love them all.
• 1:43
  Speaker 1: Bring that back.
• 1:43
  Speaker 2: We need a witchy renaissance. But I think that's what
• 1:46
  Speaker 2: we're going to be doing in today's episode. But before
• 1:49
  Speaker 2: we dive into the witchiness of it all, we like
• 1:51
  Speaker 2: to start with a life lesson of the week.
• 1:53
  Speaker 4: So as our guest, would you like to kick us off?
• 1:56
  Speaker 5: Life lesson of the week. Okay. Well, I think a
• 2:01
  Speaker 5: really good life lesson for me is always remembering that
• 2:04
  Speaker 5: everybody's Everybody's true nature comes out.
• 2:07
  Speaker 2: In the end.
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: So you know when you have a.
• 2:09
  Speaker 5: Falling out with somebody and like the rest of your
• 2:11
  Speaker 5: friendship circle is like, I don't know, you know, she's
• 2:13
  Speaker 5: fine with me or like, I don't know, I don't
• 2:16
  Speaker 5: see it like that. Like I always now in like my,
• 2:18
  Speaker 5: as I'm approaching 40, I'm like, it's okay. Like eventually
• 2:21
  Speaker 5: the way she treated me will be reflected in how
• 2:23
  Speaker 5: she treats them and it always comes back around.
• 2:25
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 2:26
  Speaker 5: It always gets surfaced.
• 2:27
  Speaker 2: Sal's that person that has like the knack for seeing
• 2:30
  Speaker 2: the weird vibe and like, I'll be like, oh, that
• 2:34
  Speaker 2: was fun.
• 2:35
  Speaker 3: That was nice.
• 2:35
  Speaker 1: And I was like, I'm getting away.
• 2:39
  Speaker 5: She's like, they're nice.
• 2:40
  Speaker 1: They're nice. And I'm like, what is it? Did something happen?
• 2:42
  Speaker 5: She's like, I don't know.
• 2:44
  Speaker 1: She's like, yeah. And then like six months later I'm like, fuck,
• 2:47
  Speaker 1: you were right again.
• 2:49
  Speaker 5: How do you do that?
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: She's like, I don't know.
• 2:51
  Speaker 5: You're tucked in.
• 2:53
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 2:53
  Speaker 4: The intuition.
• 2:55
  Speaker 1: What's your life lesson of the week, Sarah?
• 2:56
  Speaker 3: Okay, my life lesson is my new favourite word is
• 3:00
  Speaker 3: And it's Lenur.
• 3:02
  Speaker 5: Oh.
• 3:02
  Speaker 4: It's an Irish word and you're going to love this.
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: Is it a bad word?
• 3:07
  Speaker 5: No. Damn it.
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: It's like you'll love it.
• 3:10
  Speaker 2: So it's an Irish word that my sister actually shared
• 3:12
  Speaker 2: me a video on it.
• 3:13
  Speaker 4: She was like, oh, my God.
• 3:15
  Speaker 2: And it refers to the dancing light across the ocean.
• 3:19
  Speaker 1: Oh my God.
• 3:21
  Speaker 3: Which is my like absolute favorite natural phenomenon.
• 3:25
  Speaker 4: Usually I call it aerial stress because at.
• 3:27
  Speaker 2: The end of the little mermaid, when she gets out
• 3:29
  Speaker 2: of the water, she leaves like a sparkly trail on
• 3:31
  Speaker 2: the water. So I've always said that since I was little,
• 3:34
  Speaker 2: but yeah, I found out there's, an actual Irish word
• 3:37
  Speaker 2: that describes that.
• 3:38
  Speaker 4: And I love that.
• 3:39
  Speaker 2: I love how in different languages, they'll have different words
• 3:42
  Speaker 2: to describe certain phenomenons that in English, we have to
• 3:45
  Speaker 2: say a whole sentence and a Little Mermaid reference to
• 3:47
  Speaker 2: get to.
• 3:48
  Speaker 1: Well, like there's that feeling that you can't quite like
• 3:50
  Speaker 1: put into words.
• 3:51
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 3:52
  Speaker 2: And then you're like, there is actually like a word
• 3:54
  Speaker 2: for it. Yeah. And then I also saw somebody else
• 3:56
  Speaker 2: on TikTok talking about it. And she was saying that, yes,
• 3:59
  Speaker 2: like that's the literal meaning of the word. But she
• 4:01
  Speaker 2: was like, it's also used to describe that feeling. And
• 4:04
  Speaker 2: she was like, the only example I can give is
• 4:06
  Speaker 2: when you're at the pub with your friends on a
• 4:08
  Speaker 2: Saturday afternoon and you've had a couple of drinks and
• 4:11
  Speaker 2: you've got no plans left and the sun's down and
• 4:13
  Speaker 2: you're all laughing and have a good time.
• 4:15
  Speaker 1: She was like, that's also Lenore.
• 4:17
  Speaker 4: And I was like, I love that.
• 4:19
  Speaker 1: That's perfect.
• 4:20
  Speaker 4: Yeah, that is a great feeling.
• 4:22
  Speaker 1: Perfect.
• 4:22
  Speaker 4: What's your life lesson?
• 4:23
  Speaker 1: My life lesson.
• 4:25
  Speaker 2: Of the week is to not sleep on the reverse
• 4:28
  Speaker 2: Google image search. Because this has been literally my support
• 4:34
  Speaker 2: system over the last couple of weeks. I've been trying
• 4:38
  Speaker 2: to find a dress for one of my best friend's
• 4:41
  Speaker 2: hens and there's been this one dress that I saw
• 4:44
  Speaker 2: on Pinterest.
• 4:44
  Speaker 1: And I was like, where are you from?
• 4:47
  Speaker 5: Who are you?
• 4:48
  Speaker 1: Who are your parents? Talk to me. I couldn't find
• 4:52
  Speaker 1: it anywhere. Google reverse image search.
• 4:54
  Speaker 2: I have now located this vintage dress for one chick
• 4:58
  Speaker 2: who lives in New York.
• 4:59
  Speaker 1: Her name is Maddie. And we're messaging now because I
• 5:03
  Speaker 1: was able to find this one dress I.
• 5:05
  Speaker 2: Saw on Pinterest through like Google image search, which I
• 5:08
  Speaker 2: found on like a resale platform that was only in
• 5:10
  Speaker 2: the US based.
• 5:11
  Speaker 1: So then I was like, well, she hasn't been active.
• 5:14
  Speaker 2: And then It was a whole story that probably got
• 5:17
  Speaker 2: a bit creepy on my end, to be honest, in
• 5:19
  Speaker 2: terms of, like, me just tracking who she was.
• 5:22
  Speaker 1: And then I was like, can I have your dress?
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: I'll buy it, please. And she was like, yeah, okay.
• 5:28
  Speaker 5: That is so sweet.
• 5:29
  Speaker 2: I know.
• 5:29
  Speaker 4: I love that she even responded.
• 5:31
  Speaker 5: What does it look like, this dress?
• 5:33
  Speaker 4: I know, we need to see it here.
• 5:34
  Speaker 1: I'll show you guys.
• 5:34
  Speaker 2: It's, like, a really pretty gold dress that my, like,
• 5:38
  Speaker 2: best friend's having, like, a showgirl outfit.
• 5:40
  Speaker 1: Showgirl theme. That's the photo.
• 5:44
  Speaker 2: So I found this like one dress just from a
• 5:49
  Speaker 2: photo and I was like, come here. It's beautiful.
• 5:51
  Speaker 4: Worth the hunt.
• 5:52
  Speaker 2: But I have found so many, like I feel like
• 5:55
  Speaker 2: a lot of us find really cool like photos of
• 5:58
  Speaker 2: vintage items a lot on Pinterest or not even vintage.
• 6:01
  Speaker 1: Like you'll just see a dress and you'll.
• 6:02
  Speaker 5: Be like, where is that from?
• 6:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 6:03
  Speaker 2: Or if you ever like scrolling on TikTok and you
• 6:06
  Speaker 2: see someone posting and then maybe they haven't got back
• 6:09
  Speaker 2: to the comments yet of saying where something is from.
• 6:12
  Speaker 1: Screenshot, Google reverse image search, Bob's your uncle.
• 6:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 6:16
  Speaker 1: I love it.
• 6:17
  Speaker 2: Really good.
• 6:17
  Speaker 5: I actually used it in journalism as well.
• 6:20
  Speaker 2: Oh.
• 6:21
  Speaker 5: I spent a lot of time asking Google image reverse. Yeah.
• 6:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 6:24
  Speaker 4: I love that.
• 6:25
  Speaker 5: You feel like a real PI. Yeah.
• 6:27
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I really did.
• 6:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 6:29
  Speaker 5: It was great. Solid hack.
• 6:31
  Speaker 1: I love it.
• 6:32
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 6:32
  Speaker 3: Okay.
• 6:33
  Speaker 4: Should we get into the episode? Let's do it.
• 6:34
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 6:35
  Speaker 5: Okay.
• 6:35
  Speaker 3: So Luciane, our world is becoming increasingly disenchanted.
• 6:40
  Speaker 4: Do you think that women today have lost a little
• 6:43
  Speaker 4: bit of their magic?
• 6:44
  Speaker 5: I don't think we've lost it. I think we've been
• 6:46
  Speaker 5: taught to suppress it. I think we've been taught to
• 6:49
  Speaker 5: ignore it and to like, we've been conditioned to believe
• 6:52
  Speaker 5: that it is frivolous, that it's not important, that it
• 6:55
  Speaker 5: makes us girly and silly and actually what we really
• 7:00
  Speaker 5: need right now, given like kind of the global winds
• 7:04
  Speaker 5: of conflict and climate change and economics, we really need
• 7:08
  Speaker 5: to all kind of lean back into our magic and
• 7:11
  Speaker 5: like whether that is friendship or gardening or craft or just,
• 7:16
  Speaker 5: you know, going out and drinking and laughing with your friends.
• 7:18
  Speaker 5: Like these are all, you know, really inherently kind of
• 7:21
  Speaker 5: girly things that we've been told are frivolous. And actually
• 7:25
  Speaker 5: they are things that can really show us a different
• 7:27
  Speaker 5: way of living that's really important. And I see it
• 7:30
  Speaker 5: in my girlfriends all the time. So no, I don't
• 7:31
  Speaker 5: think we've lost it, but I think we have been
• 7:33
  Speaker 5: definitely taught to sideline it for sure. Yeah.
• 7:35
  Speaker 1: Not to like prioritize it.
• 7:38
  Speaker 2: 100%.
• 7:38
  Speaker 1: And it's so powerful.
• 7:39
  Speaker 2: It is like, I feel the most powerful in my
• 7:41
  Speaker 2: life when I'm with my friends, like when I am
• 7:45
  Speaker 2: doing something that genuinely makes me feel so happy.
• 7:48
  Speaker 5: Yeah, Lenore at the pub.
• 7:50
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 7:51
  Speaker 2: When we're talking about magic, what does magic mean to you?
• 7:55
  Speaker 2: Because obviously we're not talking about, like, turning your shit
• 7:58
  Speaker 2: ex into a frog, even though I wish it was.
• 8:00
  Speaker 5: I know.
• 8:01
  Speaker 4: If you've got any tips for that, though.
• 8:02
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Hit us up.
• 8:05
  Speaker 5: Well, look, I think it's, you know, there's kind of,
• 8:07
  Speaker 5: to me, there's, like, two different kind of vibes of
• 8:09
  Speaker 5: magic going on. So there's one that's very grounded in
• 8:12
  Speaker 5: this reality.
• 8:12
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 8:13
  Speaker 5: The five categories in the book are gardener, gossip, spinster, healer, nymph.
• 8:17
  Speaker 5: And that is basically like, yeah, go out into the garden,
• 8:20
  Speaker 5: plant a seed, watch it become a flower. Like that's
• 8:22
  Speaker 5: a very witchy thing to do. You know, grow some herbs,
• 8:25
  Speaker 5: harvest the herbs, like pick a lemon, like whatever it is.
• 8:27
  Speaker 5: Like these are inherently kind of magical things. Then gossip,
• 8:33
  Speaker 5: like we were just talking about with friendship. Like that
• 8:35
  Speaker 5: is also when we're sharing stories and like connecting with
• 8:38
  Speaker 5: each other and laughing and having a good time and
• 8:41
  Speaker 5: supporting each other. that's also extremely magical, right? It's something
• 8:44
  Speaker 5: that helps you transcend and we find a lot of
• 8:46
  Speaker 5: like really great energy in it. Spinster is all about
• 8:50
  Speaker 5: textile work and so there's something extremely magical about fashion
• 8:53
  Speaker 5: and glamour, like the origins of the word glamour actually
• 8:56
  Speaker 5: are to cast a spell, like when you trace it
• 8:58
  Speaker 5: back in the etymology. And of course it is because,
• 9:00
  Speaker 5: you know, when you see somebody beautiful or when you
• 9:03
  Speaker 5: see someone wearing an amazing dress or you put on
• 9:06
  Speaker 5: an incredible suit and you watch how it transforms, you know,
• 9:09
  Speaker 5: it's like Cinderella wearing in the movie when she's like
• 9:11
  Speaker 5: oh my god like look all this magic and now
• 9:13
  Speaker 5: i'm in a ball gown like you know it really
• 9:15
  Speaker 5: these things are they don't have to be kind of
• 9:18
  Speaker 5: supernatural casting a spell to actually for us to actually
• 9:20
  Speaker 5: see them as magical and enchanted and then the final
• 9:24
  Speaker 5: categories healer obviously medicine is super fucking witchy like take
• 9:28
  Speaker 5: a pill feel better like brew a little potion take
• 9:30
  Speaker 5: it feel better like um and then nymph is all
• 9:33
  Speaker 5: about that connection to the natural world so you know
• 9:35
  Speaker 5: seeing the the water sparkle the you know under the
• 9:38
  Speaker 5: the sunlight in the morning like all of those kind
• 9:41
  Speaker 5: of things, how it feels when you're in a forest,
• 9:42
  Speaker 5: listening to the birds and the bees, these are all
• 9:45
  Speaker 5: very magical things. So there's that. And then the second
• 9:48
  Speaker 5: kind of element, there was lots of women casting spells
• 9:52
  Speaker 5: during the witch hunts. And there are still women, I'm
• 9:55
  Speaker 5: meeting them all the time now, who are casting spells
• 9:58
  Speaker 5: all the time and who believe that there are these
• 10:00
  Speaker 5: supernatural forces that we can harness. And maybe you believe
• 10:03
  Speaker 5: in manifestation, or maybe you believe in meditation, or even
• 10:06
  Speaker 5: just the way that exercise can transform the way that
• 10:09
  Speaker 5: we feel and think. There are bigger forces at play.
• 10:13
  Speaker 5: And I don't think of myself as a witch, although
• 10:15
  Speaker 5: I have witchy practices in my life. I have a numerologist.
• 10:18
  Speaker 5: I love You know, I love astrology, you know, and
• 10:22
  Speaker 5: so there's those kind of two different things where it's
• 10:24
  Speaker 5: like you can be a very realistic person and still
• 10:27
  Speaker 5: acknowledge that there's magic and then you can be a
• 10:29
  Speaker 5: bit woo-woo and be like, hey, there's magic up there too.
• 10:31
  Speaker 2: I like that because I think that acknowledges both ways
• 10:34
  Speaker 2: that people could feel about it because there could be
• 10:36
  Speaker 2: chicks listening being like, I don't know if I'm going
• 10:38
  Speaker 2: to be like, I'm a witch now.
• 10:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 10:40
  Speaker 2: Whereas like I think everyone can feel magical whether or
• 10:45
  Speaker 2: not they self-identify as a witch or not. Totally.
• 10:54
  Speaker 1: Have you ever cast a spell?
• 10:55
  Speaker 5: Mm-hmm.
• 10:57
  Speaker 1: Would you share? You don't have to.
• 11:00
  Speaker 2: No, no.
• 11:00
  Speaker 5: I mean, I've cast a few in my life. Like
• 11:02
  Speaker 5: when I was younger, we used to do seances. Did
• 11:04
  Speaker 5: you guys do seances?
• 11:05
  Speaker 1: No, I'm too scared.
• 11:07
  Speaker 5: Oh, my gosh. Maybe it was like a 90s child thing,
• 11:09
  Speaker 5: but at a sleepover, we'd be like trying to keep
• 11:11
  Speaker 5: it quiet so the parents wouldn't hear and doing the
• 11:13
  Speaker 5: Ouija board and everything.
• 11:14
  Speaker 1: Light as a feather, stiff as a board.
• 11:15
  Speaker 5: Totally. I mean, I did that kind of recently at
• 11:17
  Speaker 5: a 40th as well.
• 11:18
  Speaker 2: Oh, my gosh.
• 11:18
  Speaker 5: Oh. It was really fun. And then what else? I've
• 11:23
  Speaker 5: tried the Elizabeth Day love spell. Have you guys seen
• 11:25
  Speaker 5: that one?
• 11:26
  Speaker 2: No. No.
• 11:26
  Speaker 1: What is it?
• 11:28
  Speaker 5: It hasn't fucking worked yet. So basically what you do
• 11:32
  Speaker 5: is you write down a list of everything that you
• 11:34
  Speaker 5: want in a partner and then you fold the list
• 11:37
  Speaker 5: up towards you and then you take it outside and
• 11:40
  Speaker 5: you light it on fire. And, like, you wait until it's, like,
• 11:44
  Speaker 5: burnt all the way down, which takes a long time
• 11:46
  Speaker 5: because I wrote it on moleskin paper, which.
• 11:47
  Speaker 1: Is very thick. Oh, shit.
• 11:49
  Speaker 5: You were leaning into it. It's going to be finished.
• 11:52
  Speaker 4: Tissue paper next time.
• 11:53
  Speaker 5: And then you have to throw the ashes out into
• 11:54
  Speaker 5: the world.
• 11:55
  Speaker 1: Oh, my gosh.
• 11:55
  Speaker 5: And she swears by it because she found, like, she
• 11:59
  Speaker 5: found a soulmate that was too young to be her
• 12:01
  Speaker 5: husband and then she realized she needed to be more
• 12:03
  Speaker 5: specific in her list and then she did it and
• 12:05
  Speaker 5: she found her now husband.
• 12:07
  Speaker 4: Oh, my gosh.
• 12:08
  Speaker 5: I know. It went viral and that's why I did
• 12:10
  Speaker 5: it and all of my girlfriends who are still single
• 12:12
  Speaker 5: or also have been doing it. One of them even
• 12:13
  Speaker 5: did it for their career. I love that.
• 12:16
  Speaker 1: It doesn't have to be about a relationship. It can
• 12:19
  Speaker 1: be about anything.
• 12:21
  Speaker 2: I've done the one where there was someone who I
• 12:24
  Speaker 2: just didn't like anymore and so you freeze their name.
• 12:27
  Speaker 5: Oh, yeah, I like that one too. That's a good one.
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you write their name down. Like if you're just like, you.
• 12:30
  Speaker 2: Know what, I don't wish you any ill will but
• 12:33
  Speaker 2: I no longer want you in my life. And I
• 12:34
  Speaker 2: like wrote their name down on a piece of paper.
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: We both did it.
• 12:37
  Speaker 2: And you put it in a bag of water, like
• 12:39
  Speaker 2: a Ziploc bag of water, and you put it in
• 12:41
  Speaker 2: the freezer.
• 12:41
  Speaker 5: I've got some people I need to do that with.
• 12:43
  Speaker 5: I'm going to do that this afternoon.
• 12:44
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 12:44
  Speaker 5: That's a good one.
• 12:45
  Speaker 4: It's such an easy one, I think.
• 12:46
  Speaker 1: And it just makes me feel good.
• 12:48
  Speaker 4: I think that's the thing.
• 12:49
  Speaker 3: Like whether or not it actually works, it's the symbolism
• 12:52
  Speaker 3: of you like– doing a physical act and saying, I'm
• 12:55
  Speaker 3: not going to put up with this anymore, or I'm
• 12:57
  Speaker 3: opening myself up to this and an opportunity and giving
• 13:01
  Speaker 3: yourself that physical marker to actually do that, which I
• 13:03
  Speaker 3: really love because a lot of our typical modern day
• 13:07
  Speaker 3: is scrolling, working screens. How do you feel like that
• 13:11
  Speaker 3: has disconnected us from some of these magical elements in life?
• 13:15
  Speaker 5: Oh my God, so much. Because they've taken us so
• 13:18
  Speaker 5: far into the mind, like, and now we live in
• 13:20
  Speaker 5: our brains so much. And really magic is about being
• 13:23
  Speaker 5: connected to the body and the outside world and to
• 13:25
  Speaker 5: each other. And so really when we're like all day,
• 13:28
  Speaker 5: every day living in this kind of extension of the
• 13:30
  Speaker 5: mind in the screen and like not really like those,
• 13:34
  Speaker 5: the images that we're seeing have no smell, have no sound,
• 13:37
  Speaker 5: have no like there's no wind against the skin. We're
• 13:40
  Speaker 5: really kind of out of reality. We're completely removed from
• 13:44
  Speaker 5: the things in the actual world that are enchanting and
• 13:48
  Speaker 5: that feel a bit magic. And it takes us away
• 13:51
  Speaker 5: from our ability to like feel instinctual things as well.
• 13:55
  Speaker 5: Like you were saying before about how, you know, you
• 13:56
  Speaker 5: get a bad vibe. It's hard to get a bad
• 13:59
  Speaker 5: vibe through a screen. But when you meet someone in person,
• 14:01
  Speaker 5: you're like, oh, here we go. So I think it's
• 14:05
  Speaker 5: really important to carve out time in your day and
• 14:09
  Speaker 5: to really intentionally like, go outside, drink your coffee in
• 14:12
  Speaker 5: the morning sun, you know, go for a little walk,
• 14:15
  Speaker 5: like pay attention, like try not to always have headphones in,
• 14:18
  Speaker 5: like how is the sunlight filtering through the trees, you know,
• 14:21
  Speaker 5: to like, you know, be dappled and beautiful on the pavement,
• 14:23
  Speaker 5: like all of those little things bring us back into
• 14:26
  Speaker 5: enchantment and looking at the world around us like it
• 14:29
  Speaker 5: is this kind of beautiful, wonderful, like precious place.
• 14:32
  Speaker 2: It's also like not only is it free, To do
• 14:36
  Speaker 2: all of those things. Like it's actually not expensive to
• 14:38
  Speaker 2: do any of those things. And what's like so key
• 14:41
  Speaker 2: and important in that is as well, like your attention
• 14:44
  Speaker 2: is not on anything that's fighting for it. Because like
• 14:48
  Speaker 2: attention is obviously something that is really expensive.
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: That's why everyone's like, no, no, no, don't leave our app. Stay, stay. Look,
• 14:55
  Speaker 1: here's another video. It's only 10 seconds. And I can
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: give you another one.
• 14:58
  Speaker 4: Like, it's great. Don't leave.
• 15:00
  Speaker 2: But if you're watching, you know, the light on the ocean,
• 15:03
  Speaker 2: if you're watching the light come through trees or literally
• 15:06
  Speaker 2: just feeling grass between your toes love that um you
• 15:10
  Speaker 2: you aren't putting your attention to one towards something that
• 15:14
  Speaker 2: can continuously try to take your money so not only
• 15:17
  Speaker 2: is it like free but it's fun yes and we
• 15:20
  Speaker 2: just don't prioritize fun as much anymore and these things
• 15:24
  Speaker 2: kind of like what you were saying before can be
• 15:26
  Speaker 2: seen as quite like frivolous and quite like okay like
• 15:30
  Speaker 2: yeah if you know you're my priority is to sit
• 15:32
  Speaker 2: in the sun for 10 minutes in the morning so
• 15:33
  Speaker 2: i'm like you'd get people being like, okay. And a
• 15:35
  Speaker 2: lot of the time it's, you know, men. And you
• 15:38
  Speaker 2: talk a lot about witch hunts as well and how
• 15:42
  Speaker 2: witch hunts are something that we consider a thing of
• 15:44
  Speaker 2: the past.
• 15:46
  Speaker 1: But what are some modern.
• 15:47
  Speaker 2: Day realities that kind of echo those witch hunts?
• 15:51
  Speaker 5: I mean, so much of the way the world is
• 15:53
  Speaker 5: structured and you've just been like hitting on it in
• 15:55
  Speaker 5: terms of like the economy and the way the economy
• 15:57
  Speaker 5: is built to like extract from us, whether it's our
• 16:00
  Speaker 5: labor or our money, echoes of the witch hunts. So
• 16:03
  Speaker 5: pre-witch hunts, we were living in an agrarian society where
• 16:06
  Speaker 5: like you grew your own food, you subsisted from the land,
• 16:08
  Speaker 5: you helped each other, you needed each other. And yeah,
• 16:11
  Speaker 5: it was all free. And then we had this shift
• 16:14
  Speaker 5: with industrialization and we moved towards the market economy structure
• 16:18
  Speaker 5: that we live under now, where you went off and
• 16:19
  Speaker 5: you earned a wage and you had to buy things
• 16:21
  Speaker 5: and you weren't disconnected from the land where you were
• 16:23
  Speaker 5: growing your food. And the structure of the family home
• 16:27
  Speaker 5: really changed as well. And so and of course when
• 16:30
  Speaker 5: we're leaping through centuries now to get to apps and
• 16:33
  Speaker 5: to get to the iPhone, but what we see is
• 16:37
  Speaker 5: a world where we are basically commoditised and having to
• 16:43
  Speaker 5: literally spend money and earn money to exist in the world.
• 16:47
  Speaker 5: And when we think about like what the world might
• 16:50
  Speaker 5: be like had we not had the witch hunts, we
• 16:52
  Speaker 5: would be living in very different ways. We would be
• 16:54
  Speaker 5: living in a structure where like women were women did
• 16:57
  Speaker 5: most of their work collectively together. And the structure of
• 17:01
  Speaker 5: the family home means that a woman is, or whoever
• 17:04
  Speaker 5: is the primary caretaker, is isolated and alone, cooking, cleaning,
• 17:07
  Speaker 5: doing the laundry, caring for the children. But those activities
• 17:10
  Speaker 5: used to happen outside in the village. You used to
• 17:12
  Speaker 5: cook and clean together and spend your time together.
• 17:14
  Speaker 2: I would be so clean if, like, we all just
• 17:17
  Speaker 2: did it for fun together.
• 17:19
  Speaker 1: Like, I am, I fucking hate cleaning. I'm not a
• 17:23
  Speaker 1: clean girl.
• 17:24
  Speaker 4: I've never been.
• 17:25
  Speaker 1: I came out of the womb a bit messy. And
• 17:27
  Speaker 1: so literally I'm.
• 17:28
  Speaker 5: Like– But maybe you'd be good at cooking and you'd
• 17:30
  Speaker 5: be doing that and someone else would be doing the cleaning.
• 17:32
  Speaker 1: But I'm so sure if we can all do it together,
• 17:35
  Speaker 1: I love cleaning. Like I'll wash my sheets now.
• 17:38
  Speaker 5: That's great.
• 17:38
  Speaker 1: Yeah, we're all doing it together. Let's bring that back.
• 17:41
  Speaker 2: Yeah, let's bring back cleaning our sheets with like a
• 17:43
  Speaker 2: rock on a little– Yeah.
• 17:44
  Speaker 4: Whatever they would do, that little wooden thing.
• 17:47
  Speaker 2: And like talking shit about people, being like– and then
• 17:49
  Speaker 2: you're like, wait, does anyone know how to get this
• 17:51
  Speaker 2: stain out? Yeah, exactly.
• 17:52
  Speaker 1: That would be great.
• 17:53
  Speaker 5: Yeah, exactly. And it's, I mean, and there's like a funnel,
• 17:57
  Speaker 5: like it's fun. It's like, it's, and there's ways that
• 17:59
  Speaker 5: we can reintroduce those structures without having to going back
• 18:03
  Speaker 5: to using rocks, you know.
• 18:05
  Speaker 1: Everyone come over, use my new Kogan machine.
• 18:09
  Speaker 5: Yeah, you know, but really it is like rethinking the
• 18:12
  Speaker 5: way that we have been conditioned to believe our lives
• 18:15
  Speaker 5: need to be, you know, the nine to five, the office,
• 18:18
  Speaker 5: the car, all of that. And, you know, we're starting
• 18:21
  Speaker 5: to see it now with working from home changing and
• 18:23
  Speaker 5: the structure of our lives so much and the nature
• 18:25
  Speaker 5: of the office so much, but we can lean into
• 18:27
  Speaker 5: it even more for sure.
• 18:29
  Speaker 2: What are your thoughts on, and this kind of has
• 18:31
  Speaker 2: just popped into my head as you're talking, the relationship
• 18:35
  Speaker 2: between witch.
• 18:36
  Speaker 1: Hunts and cancel culture? Is there one?
• 18:40
  Speaker 5: Yeah, for sure. It's the same energy, right? So what
• 18:43
  Speaker 5: was driving a lot of the witch hunts were Puritans.
• 18:46
  Speaker 5: And Puritans were basically saying that, you know, they'd separated
• 18:49
  Speaker 5: themselves from the Catholic Church and they wanted to create
• 18:52
  Speaker 5: this kind of really pure version of the church. They
• 18:54
  Speaker 5: didn't like anyone having fun. They didn't like you drinking, dancing,
• 18:57
  Speaker 5: flirting was prohibited. You had to go to mass every weekend.
• 18:59
  Speaker 2: Fuck.
• 19:03
  Speaker 5: It was not a good time.
• 19:04
  Speaker 1: I'm dead. Burn me now.
• 19:08
  Speaker 5: Yeah, honestly.
• 19:08
  Speaker 1: Burn me up. Yeah, I'm like, that's okay.
• 19:11
  Speaker 4: Let's wrap this up. Yeah, that's okay.
• 19:13
  Speaker 2: Sorry.
• 19:14
  Speaker 5: Sorry, continue. But it's the same energy, right? The same
• 19:17
  Speaker 5: energy in cancel culture that's like, and of course sometimes
• 19:20
  Speaker 5: it's necessary, of course.
• 19:21
  Speaker 3: Yes, 1,000%.
• 19:21
  Speaker 5: But the same energy that's like everything that you're doing
• 19:24
  Speaker 5: is wrong and you need to be, you know, there's
• 19:26
  Speaker 5: no forgiveness, there's no room for redemption, there's just like
• 19:29
  Speaker 5: get out of here, you know, we're executing you now like,
• 19:33
  Speaker 5: you know, hypothetically. And I think that we need to
• 19:37
  Speaker 5: really keep in check our desire to kind of tell
• 19:41
  Speaker 5: each other off and to police each other's behaviour because
• 19:44
  Speaker 5: Because it's the same, it's one of our flaws as humans, right?
• 19:47
  Speaker 5: And it's been around forever, but it was definitely... very
• 19:51
  Speaker 5: similar to the witch hunts.
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: Yeah, because that's the thing is I completely agree.
• 19:55
  Speaker 2: I do think there are times when calling out the
• 19:58
  Speaker 2: incorrect and wrong and just morally terrible behaviour is incredibly
• 20:02
  Speaker 2: valid but just from my personal feed and maybe I
• 20:06
  Speaker 2: haven't seen other things as well that they're, is a
• 20:09
  Speaker 2: lot more of this cancel culture that feels like it's
• 20:12
  Speaker 2: more of a witch hunt towards women of a policing
• 20:14
  Speaker 2: of morality, like moral hierarchy and high horse-ness. Whereas there's
• 20:19
  Speaker 2: like literal men who still have careers that I'm like.
• 20:24
  Speaker 1: Can we, this isn't lining up.
• 20:26
  Speaker 3: Who have done things that are like literally illegal and
• 20:29
  Speaker 3: awful to like other people.
• 20:31
  Speaker 2: But like, you know.
• 20:32
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 20:33
  Speaker 4: The double standards.
• 20:34
  Speaker 2: Like it's, it's so interesting when you look at it
• 20:36
  Speaker 2: with that lens that it's like, this isn't new. It's
• 20:38
  Speaker 2: something that, has been happening for centuries. It just looks
• 20:41
  Speaker 2: differently now. But I also wanted to touch on, because
• 20:44
  Speaker 2: like I was saying before, I think a lot of
• 20:46
  Speaker 2: the things that are considered witchy are, you know, considered.
• 20:50
  Speaker 4: Frivolous, especially by men.
• 20:53
  Speaker 3: But why do you think that things like astrology and
• 20:56
  Speaker 3: tarot cards and moon phases and manifestation are especially interesting
• 21:02
  Speaker 3: to women?
• 21:03
  Speaker 5: I mean, the moon's obvious, right? Because we have our periods. So,
• 21:06
  Speaker 5: you know, you can kind of always be like, I'm ovulating,
• 21:10
  Speaker 5: like I ovulate on the full moon, which is pretty crazy.
• 21:12
  Speaker 5: And then I'm menstruating on the new moon. And it
• 21:16
  Speaker 5: wasn't always like that in my life.
• 21:17
  Speaker 1: I'm going to like hold it in.
• 21:18
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 21:20
  Speaker 1: I'm going to be like, no, wait, the moon.
• 21:24
  Speaker 5: You'll be powerful. But, you know, like that's like one thing.
• 21:29
  Speaker 5: But also because we're so connected to, we're more, I think,
• 21:33
  Speaker 5: we're more connected to our bodies than men. And so
• 21:35
  Speaker 5: we also feel the influence of the moon. Yeah. The
• 21:37
  Speaker 5: last new moon, so many of my girlfriends were just like,
• 21:40
  Speaker 5: what is happening? You know, like something's up. Astrology also,
• 21:45
  Speaker 5: I just think we're given permission to kind of, we
• 21:47
  Speaker 5: have this intimacy in our relationships. We talk about our feelings.
• 21:50
  Speaker 5: We talk about what's going on for us, where we're headed,
• 21:52
  Speaker 5: what we dream about. And astrology is an extension of that,
• 21:56
  Speaker 5: that men are so welcome to tap into. And so
• 21:59
  Speaker 5: it's actually fascinating because astrology has been around a long
• 22:02
  Speaker 5: time and some of the witch hunters were astrologists because
• 22:05
  Speaker 5: they When you had a lot of power in societies
• 22:07
  Speaker 5: back then and you were erudite and educated, astrology was
• 22:10
  Speaker 5: something that you studied.
• 22:11
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it was a science.
• 22:12
  Speaker 5: Yeah, it was a science.
• 22:13
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 22:14
  Speaker 5: And so it's not like but, you know, since the
• 22:17
  Speaker 5: witch hunts we've been living under this masculine kind of
• 22:19
  Speaker 5: dominated order that has insisted that science is king. And
• 22:24
  Speaker 5: so they completely eradicated the belief in the enchanted world
• 22:28
  Speaker 5: and magic as part of their kind of quest over
• 22:30
  Speaker 5: the witch hunts but also because we were bringing in
• 22:33
  Speaker 5: enlightenment the scientific revolution and then we industrialized and so
• 22:38
  Speaker 5: now we've been living for kind of you know 200
• 22:40
  Speaker 5: years 300 years under a system that has been like
• 22:43
  Speaker 5: no no no if you don't if we can't measure
• 22:45
  Speaker 5: it it doesn't exist and so it's basically been like
• 22:50
  Speaker 5: insisting that everything be tied to this kind of um
• 22:53
  Speaker 5: intense reality and astrology has gone kind of fallen by
• 22:56
  Speaker 5: the wayside along with the other magic that we.
• 22:58
  Speaker 2: Talked about too yeah You talk a lot as well
• 23:07
  Speaker 2: about like re-enchantment as a form of resistance, which I
• 23:11
  Speaker 2: think is such a cool idea.
• 23:12
  Speaker 1: And I also just love the word enchanting.
• 23:15
  Speaker 5: Me too.
• 23:16
  Speaker 2: Every time you've said it, I feel like my heart
• 23:18
  Speaker 2: is like zing in my spine. I'm like, yes. So
• 23:21
  Speaker 2: what does re-enchanting your life look like in practice?
• 23:26
  Speaker 5: Okay, so we've talked about it a little bit. It's
• 23:29
  Speaker 5: like it's a tension, right? And so it's, you know,
• 23:32
  Speaker 5: noticing the butterfly, noticing the bird, like just trying to
• 23:35
  Speaker 5: like in a very kind of simple sense bring yourself
• 23:37
  Speaker 5: back into kind of some harmony with the natural world
• 23:41
  Speaker 5: around you. And that's like a very low kind of
• 23:43
  Speaker 5: entry point. I think it's also giving yourself permission to
• 23:47
  Speaker 5: really see your friendships in a light about how they
• 23:50
  Speaker 5: empower you, you know, how they're there for you, how
• 23:53
  Speaker 5: they support you, how we couldn't really survive without each other.
• 23:56
  Speaker 5: And actually not being like, oh, my friends. It's like, no,
• 24:00
  Speaker 5: these are fundamental relationships, you know, that really have so
• 24:05
  Speaker 5: much power, which men have been so scared of for
• 24:08
  Speaker 5: a long time. And so there's that as well. I
• 24:11
  Speaker 5: think there's also looking at kind of what you eat
• 24:14
  Speaker 5: and what you put into your body and understanding that
• 24:16
  Speaker 5: like we have this kind of sacred relationship, not just
• 24:20
  Speaker 5: with the natural world, but also within ourselves. So if
• 24:23
  Speaker 5: we're like living and trying to kind of exist as
• 24:26
  Speaker 5: much as we can in the body, pay attention to
• 24:28
  Speaker 5: what it's telling us, you know, pay attention to like
• 24:31
  Speaker 5: what our gut instincts are saying, what, when it needs
• 24:33
  Speaker 5: to rest and like honoring that, like, you know, giving
• 24:36
  Speaker 5: it healthy food, but also making sure it's having fun
• 24:38
  Speaker 5: and exercising. Like that's also something that capitalism doesn't want
• 24:43
  Speaker 5: us to do. You know, it really wants us to
• 24:45
  Speaker 5: just be like, go, go, go, go, go, eat whatever
• 24:47
  Speaker 5: crap is around, never sleep, be exhausted and then just
• 24:51
  Speaker 5: keep pushing through because it's very difficult to resist and
• 24:54
  Speaker 5: to change systems when you're tired all the time.
• 24:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah. We have spoken on the show a lot about
• 24:59
  Speaker 2: like hustle culture and hurry sickness and how everything has
• 25:02
  Speaker 2: like so much pace to it. And like when we
• 25:05
  Speaker 2: were kind of going into our careers at the start,
• 25:08
  Speaker 2: like that was very much idolized. Like the idea of
• 25:10
  Speaker 2: you like running through the city with like your folders
• 25:12
  Speaker 2: and your bag and your heels on and your coffee
• 25:14
  Speaker 2: being like, like that was like, you've made it.
• 25:17
  Speaker 1: Like, wow, what an icon, right?
• 25:20
  Speaker 2: And like now we're kind of getting to this thing
• 25:22
  Speaker 2: of being like, I would like to plant some tomatoes
• 25:26
  Speaker 2: and I would like to go into the ocean.
• 25:28
  Speaker 1: And I would like to say goodnight to the moon.
• 25:30
  Speaker 2: And that's kind of like where we're moving towards and
• 25:33
  Speaker 2: I think it's great because I actually think that's not
• 25:36
  Speaker 2: even just between like Sal and I. I think I'm
• 25:39
  Speaker 2: recognising that a lot with friendships as well. And you
• 25:42
  Speaker 2: kind of spoke about the five different female archetypes earlier,
• 25:47
  Speaker 2: the gardener, the gossip, the spinster, the healer and the nymph.
• 25:51
  Speaker 1: When I first read those, I was like, the spinster, yes.
• 25:53
  Speaker 1: Because I went the other way.
• 25:55
  Speaker 5: Yes, me too.
• 25:56
  Speaker 1: I was like, single ladies.
• 25:59
  Speaker 2: Which I thought, and you kind of spoke earlier about
• 26:02
  Speaker 2: how you can reclaim those a little bit in your
• 26:03
  Speaker 2: own lives.
• 26:04
  Speaker 1: But I wanted to ask about the gossip.
• 26:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 26:06
  Speaker 1: Because, guilty. But I thought that was very interesting.
• 26:12
  Speaker 2: Because upon first glance, You'd think this is like a
• 26:15
  Speaker 2: negative thing, right?
• 26:17
  Speaker 5: That's how they built it. Spinster too. Yeah. I mean,
• 26:21
  Speaker 5: a gossip was your best friend. So the etymology of
• 26:24
  Speaker 5: that word is God sibling. So like a God parent.
• 26:27
  Speaker 5: It's God sibling. Literally meant your best friend.
• 26:29
  Speaker 2: And you are my God sibling. Whenever anyone says like, oh,
• 26:36
  Speaker 2: is that your best friend?
• 26:37
  Speaker 1: I'm like, nah.
• 26:37
  Speaker 5: God sibling.
• 26:38
  Speaker 1: God sibling.
• 26:39
  Speaker 2: Idiot.
• 26:39
  Speaker 5: Get it right. So gossip. God fib. Gossip. That's how
• 26:45
  Speaker 5: we get there. So during the witch hunts, all of
• 26:48
  Speaker 5: your gossips were the people at your bedside during childbirth.
• 26:52
  Speaker 5: They were who you spent all day with working. You
• 26:55
  Speaker 5: could not run your house without a network of gossips.
• 26:58
  Speaker 5: And then, of course.
• 26:59
  Speaker 4: I think I've just become too powerful.
• 27:02
  Speaker 1: I'm going to be really honest.
• 27:04
  Speaker 5: Sorry. The men hate it. They hate that we share stories.
• 27:07
  Speaker 5: They hate how much power it gives us in the community.
• 27:09
  Speaker 5: Because we're talking about how shit they are.
• 27:11
  Speaker 1: Correct.
• 27:11
  Speaker 5: And they're like, no, no.
• 27:12
  Speaker 1: They're like, no, I didn't do that. I didn't kick
• 27:14
  Speaker 1: her sheep.
• 27:15
  Speaker 5: Yeah, because then we know everything. We know everything. who's
• 27:20
  Speaker 5: in love, who's unwell, who's getting divorced, who's, you know,
• 27:23
  Speaker 5: cheating on who. Like we understand the rules of heartbreak
• 27:26
  Speaker 5: and we understand the rules of psychology, which makes us
• 27:28
  Speaker 5: extremely powerful people in the community. And so you see
• 27:31
  Speaker 5: over the course of the witch hunts the way that
• 27:35
  Speaker 5: gossip is used starts to change. And you see it
• 27:37
  Speaker 5: like clearly in Shakespeare where he's talking about noble gossips
• 27:40
  Speaker 5: in one of his plays and then later on he's
• 27:42
  Speaker 5: talking about long-tongued babbling gossips. And so they start to slowly–
• 27:48
  Speaker 5: You rang. I've had to slowly deride this beautiful thing,
• 27:56
  Speaker 5: this sacred thing that is female friendship and turn it
• 27:58
  Speaker 5: into something that means undermining idle talk, which is how
• 28:02
  Speaker 5: we still understand it today.
• 28:03
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 28:04
  Speaker 1: So basically like the girls' group chat is like a
• 28:06
  Speaker 1: modern coven.
• 28:07
  Speaker 5: Totally. Love that. 100%. Love that.
• 28:09
  Speaker 2: I'm not going to say like a message in the
• 28:11
  Speaker 2: group chat. I'm going to be like I'm talking to
• 28:12
  Speaker 2: my coven.
• 28:14
  Speaker 1: Okay, to my gossips. Do you think women need to
• 28:16
  Speaker 1: prioritise gathering more?
• 28:18
  Speaker 5: Yes, 100%. I mean we already do it quite a lot, right?
• 28:22
  Speaker 2: More.
• 28:23
  Speaker 5: Yeah, but definitely more. And, you know, and also just
• 28:26
  Speaker 5: like taking seriously how meaningful it is to have that support.
• 28:31
  Speaker 5: Like when I watch my mum, like my– My dad
• 28:33
  Speaker 5: died like 10 years ago and when at her 70th birthday,
• 28:37
  Speaker 5: you know, she was sitting at the end of the
• 28:39
  Speaker 5: party with this friend she's had since she was four.
• 28:42
  Speaker 5: They've been friends for 66 years and like they've just
• 28:46
  Speaker 5: seen each other through so much and they're extremely different people.
• 28:48
  Speaker 5: Like my mum is a church mouse and her best
• 28:50
  Speaker 5: friend Liz is this like She drives a black Alfa Romeo.
• 28:53
  Speaker 5: She drinks wine. She smokes cigarettes. She's like– I love
• 28:56
  Speaker 5: her already. Yeah, right? They could not be more different.
• 28:58
  Speaker 4: See my future and it is bright.
• 29:00
  Speaker 5: But like there's so much power in our friendships as
• 29:05
  Speaker 5: women and I feel sorry for men that they don't
• 29:08
  Speaker 5: get to have them in the same way. Yeah, I agree.
• 29:10
  Speaker 2: I also want to kind of switch gears a bit
• 29:12
  Speaker 2: and talk about something you mentioned earlier but glamour, glamour magic.
• 29:17
  Speaker 2: So the history there is kind of how– glamour is
• 29:21
  Speaker 2: more about what we've put on our body and like
• 29:24
  Speaker 2: dressing up and is that correct?
• 29:27
  Speaker 5: No. So it used to, so the etymology of that
• 29:29
  Speaker 5: word is grammary. I'm probably saying that wrong.
• 29:31
  Speaker 4: Because it's Scottish.
• 29:32
  Speaker 5: That's probably, I'm not even going to try. But yeah, so,
• 29:36
  Speaker 5: and that meant to cast a spell over the eye. Yes.
• 29:38
  Speaker 5: And then it evolves over time. to be to mean
• 29:41
  Speaker 5: glamour and so like a to glamour is a spell
• 29:44
  Speaker 5: basically But now, obviously, we associate glamour with, you know,
• 29:48
  Speaker 5: getting dressed up and, like, the hair and the makeup
• 29:50
  Speaker 5: and just, like, you know, that. And it's all through
• 29:53
  Speaker 5: the movies in the 90s, right, when, like, the girl
• 29:55
  Speaker 5: changes and she comes downstairs and all of a sudden
• 29:57
  Speaker 5: everybody's like, oh, my goodness.
• 29:58
  Speaker 4: She takes off her glasses.
• 29:59
  Speaker 5: She takes off her glasses off and her ponytail out.
• 30:00
  Speaker 2: They're like, wow.
• 30:02
  Speaker 5: She's glamoring them. But I think there's something to it.
• 30:05
  Speaker 5: Like I've worked in fashion since I was 17 and
• 30:07
  Speaker 5: it's a very powerful thing to be able to transform
• 30:10
  Speaker 5: yourself to like wear, put on makeup and a beautiful dress.
• 30:14
  Speaker 5: And I also think like when we think about textiles
• 30:17
  Speaker 5: and that process, like when you're weaving silk or linen
• 30:21
  Speaker 5: and it's come from the ground, in the case of
• 30:24
  Speaker 5: linen or from silk, it comes from a literal cocoon. And,
• 30:27
  Speaker 5: you know, you're turning it into this really luxurious, lustrous
• 30:31
  Speaker 5: piece of fabric that then becomes a dress. Like it's
• 30:33
  Speaker 5: very magical.
• 30:34
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 30:35
  Speaker 5: You know, it's just that it's rooted in physics so
• 30:37
  Speaker 5: we don't think that it is, but it is.
• 30:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 30:40
  Speaker 1: I love that.
• 30:41
  Speaker 2: How do we kind of use that, like the idea
• 30:44
  Speaker 2: of glamour, to make ourselves feel powerful rather than using
• 30:49
  Speaker 2: beauty as.
• 30:49
  Speaker 1: An idea to fix ourselves?
• 30:51
  Speaker 5: Ooh, that's a great question. I think that there's– I
• 30:56
  Speaker 5: think we've got to really stay in our power of
• 31:01
  Speaker 5: remembering that there are so many different ways to look
• 31:03
  Speaker 5: and feel beautiful. And that when they try to make
• 31:07
  Speaker 5: us feel like it's a superficial thing, that's witch hunter mentality.
• 31:12
  Speaker 5: It's girly. It's silly. It doesn't matter. It's unimportant. It's
• 31:14
  Speaker 5: over there. But actually at the same time, they're sending
• 31:17
  Speaker 5: us these subliminal messages, which are don't age, be really thin. And,
• 31:22
  Speaker 5: you know, take as many drugs, have as much plastic surgery,
• 31:25
  Speaker 5: as many injectables, whatever it takes, so that you still–
• 31:28
  Speaker 5: you look like you can basically have a child forever.
• 31:31
  Speaker 5: You know, they want us to look young and fertile
• 31:33
  Speaker 5: for our entire lives. And that, to me, is really dangerous.
• 31:37
  Speaker 5: And that's when I think beauty can become very toxic
• 31:42
  Speaker 5: for women. Whereas I think there's so much beauty– in
• 31:46
  Speaker 5: wrinkles and aging and, you know, feeling confident and powerful
• 31:50
  Speaker 5: as you, as you get older. But that doesn't mean
• 31:53
  Speaker 5: you have to like distance yourself from, from things that
• 31:56
  Speaker 5: are beautiful and glamorous and that make you feel good
• 31:59
  Speaker 5: because we're, you know, we're like, we are beautiful beings.
• 32:03
  Speaker 5: Like that is the thing about our femininity that is
• 32:06
  Speaker 5: so powerful. And like, we're now approaching a different kind
• 32:10
  Speaker 5: of femininity where we're we're allowed to lean into all
• 32:12
  Speaker 5: of this stuff because it is powerful and it makes
• 32:15
  Speaker 5: us stronger and it gives us not just fun, but
• 32:17
  Speaker 5: also an avenue for changing things. Yeah.
• 32:19
  Speaker 2: For sure. You said something just then that like really
• 32:22
  Speaker 2: hooked into my brain, which was witch hunter mentality, which
• 32:26
  Speaker 2: sometimes even for myself, I can feel like the call
• 32:29
  Speaker 2: is coming from inside the house. Like I can, I
• 32:32
  Speaker 2: feel like sometimes I say things to myself or I
• 32:34
  Speaker 2: will think things to myself and I will sometimes pull
• 32:38
  Speaker 2: myself up and I feel like that can what I'm
• 32:41
  Speaker 2: feeling is like that can be witch hunter mentality. So
• 32:43
  Speaker 2: what are some examples that we can have internal witch
• 32:47
  Speaker 2: hunter mentality?
• 32:49
  Speaker 5: Oh, it's really present, right? Because we've grown up under
• 32:51
  Speaker 5: this system. And so like, so what I just spoke
• 32:54
  Speaker 5: about with like wanting to look young and all, and
• 32:56
  Speaker 5: no one's immune from that. Like I can be as
• 32:58
  Speaker 5: active in my mind is like being okay with where
• 33:01
  Speaker 5: I am in my age and my body and all
• 33:02
  Speaker 5: of those things. But still like you still have the
• 33:05
  Speaker 5: thoughts that pop up, like just lose a bit more
• 33:07
  Speaker 5: weight or like do this or do that. And so yeah,
• 33:10
  Speaker 5: So definitely it's the toxic beauty standards for sure. It's
• 33:15
  Speaker 5: also I think when we're being kind of that competitive
• 33:20
  Speaker 5: pressure to kind of go up against each other professionally
• 33:26
  Speaker 5: and this kind of scarcity mindset that there's not enough
• 33:29
  Speaker 5: to go around. We are stronger together. for sure. And
• 33:33
  Speaker 5: like the, the, one of my, one of the reasons
• 33:36
  Speaker 5: I moved to Sydney is because I have a network
• 33:38
  Speaker 5: of other female writer friends up here who are all
• 33:41
  Speaker 5: ambitious and so, you know, working and really clever and like, like,
• 33:46
  Speaker 5: and the ability for us to come together to talk
• 33:48
  Speaker 5: about what rates we're getting paid and to, you know,
• 33:51
  Speaker 5: collectively bargain and negotiate is something that was really important
• 33:55
  Speaker 5: to me. And, but yeah, again, everybody in that circle
• 33:59
  Speaker 5: is not immune from the idea that there's not enough
• 34:02
  Speaker 5: work to go around. And so we have to like
• 34:04
  Speaker 5: constantly be reminding ourselves of like, kind of like an
• 34:06
  Speaker 5: abundance mindset as opposed to a scarcity mindset.
• 34:10
  Speaker 1: I love that. I love that.
• 34:11
  Speaker 2: That is so powerful. And it's, again, like embracing the
• 34:14
  Speaker 2: gossip and the coven and seeing other women and your
• 34:18
  Speaker 2: peers as people who can be your support.
• 34:20
  Speaker 4: Network, not your competition, which I really love.
• 34:23
  Speaker 3: I'm really sad because we're getting to the end of
• 34:25
  Speaker 3: the episode and I don't want to.
• 34:27
  Speaker 1: I don't want to, but we've got two more questions.
• 34:29
  Speaker 1: I feel like we can squeeze them in.
• 34:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 34:31
  Speaker 3: Okay, so we've spoken a little bit about intuition already,
• 34:35
  Speaker 3: but we are also– constantly being told to listen to
• 34:39
  Speaker 3: experts and trends and algorithms and there's also there's a
• 34:42
  Speaker 3: lot of other external information that we're also being told
• 34:46
  Speaker 3: to listen to do you feel like that women have
• 34:49
  Speaker 3: lost touch of their intuition at all in the modern
• 34:52
  Speaker 3: day Yeah.
• 34:53
  Speaker 5: I mean, similar to magic and enchantment where it's like
• 34:57
  Speaker 5: totally been, we've been taught to sideline it. And when
• 34:59
  Speaker 5: you're disconnected, when you're living in the screen, you're not
• 35:03
  Speaker 5: checking in with your own body. And like the, the
• 35:06
  Speaker 5: way that this economy is structured is to keep us
• 35:08
  Speaker 5: tired and to keep us like busy basically. And so
• 35:13
  Speaker 5: really you got to find that time to kind of
• 35:14
  Speaker 5: come back and like, listen to what's going on for you.
• 35:17
  Speaker 4: How can we get better at listening to our intuition?
• 35:20
  Speaker 5: I mean, I think it's you've got to slow down.
• 35:24
  Speaker 5: You've got to be sleeping properly and, like, getting, like,
• 35:26
  Speaker 5: enough sleep and you've got to be working out.
• 35:29
  Speaker 1: Okay, yeah.
• 35:29
  Speaker 5: Shit.
• 35:30
  Speaker 2: Fuck.
• 35:33
  Speaker 1: I was like, okay, one, yeah, that's good.
• 35:35
  Speaker 4: Perfect sleep.
• 35:36
  Speaker 1: Two, that's okay, I'm working on that one.
• 35:37
  Speaker 4: Three, fuck.
• 35:38
  Speaker 5: You've got to have good people around you too that, like,
• 35:41
  Speaker 5: can reflect back things at you and, like, point out
• 35:44
  Speaker 5: hard truths and, like, you know, people that, like, help
• 35:47
  Speaker 5: you regulate your nervous system. Yeah.
• 35:48
  Speaker 1: Being that girl.
• 35:50
  Speaker 5: Stop that. He sucks.
• 35:52
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 35:52
  Speaker 4: All right.
• 35:53
  Speaker 2: I've got a little quickfire game for us to play
• 35:56
  Speaker 2: where we're going to give you a modern day dilemma
• 35:59
  Speaker 2: and we'd.
• 35:59
  Speaker 1: Love for you to give us a magical practice for each.
• 36:02
  Speaker 4: Okay.
• 36:04
  Speaker 5: Okay.
• 36:04
  Speaker 1: Getting out of a rut.
• 36:07
  Speaker 5: Get in the ocean.
• 36:09
  Speaker 1: Entering a new era.
• 36:13
  Speaker 5: Talk to your numerologist.
• 36:15
  Speaker 1: Letting something go.
• 36:19
  Speaker 5: Walk through a forest.
• 36:21
  Speaker 1: Connecting with your friends.
• 36:24
  Speaker 5: I mean, get some wine.
• 36:26
  Speaker 1: Love that. Connecting with nature.
• 36:30
  Speaker 5: Watch the sunrise. Love that.
• 36:32
  Speaker 1: Making your home feel magical.
• 36:35
  Speaker 5: Burn some sage. Love that as well.
• 36:37
  Speaker 1: I need to stop responding.
• 36:41
  Speaker 5: And then feeling more like yourself. For me, that's an exercise.
• 36:48
  Speaker 5: yeah but fun exercise i don't mean like fucking pilates
• 36:52
  Speaker 5: i mean like go and like do there's this amazing
• 36:54
  Speaker 5: class in bondi called the upbeat which is like really
• 36:57
  Speaker 5: loud music and you're moving on the beat or um
• 36:59
  Speaker 5: another class in bondi also called burn by body medicine
• 37:02
  Speaker 5: and it's somatic movement and it's like you've got to
• 37:04
  Speaker 5: be moving on the beat and jumping around and like
• 37:07
  Speaker 5: actually feeling like being encouraged to kind of check in. Yeah.
• 37:11
  Speaker 1: Let's bring back Zumba.
• 37:12
  Speaker 2: Yeah. You know?
• 37:14
  Speaker 5: Let's bring back Zumba. Have some fun.
• 37:15
  Speaker 1: That was like on every ad on every TV I
• 37:17
  Speaker 1: ever watched when I was a kid.
• 37:18
  Speaker 2: I know.
• 37:18
  Speaker 5: Bring it back. Bring it back.
• 37:20
  Speaker 1: I couldn't do it.
• 37:21
  Speaker 4: We'd have to work up our way. No shit.
• 37:23
  Speaker 5: Fuck.
• 37:24
  Speaker 2: Sorry.
• 37:24
  Speaker 5: It's a lot of cardio.
• 37:24
  Speaker 1: Or like step classes. I mean, that's kind of upbeat.
• 37:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 37:29
  Speaker 5: Okay. But it's to like remixes of Britney Spears. Oh.
• 37:32
  Speaker 5: That's really fun. Okay.
• 37:33
  Speaker 2: So I'm so sorry we're going to show up to
• 37:35
  Speaker 2: every single one of your classes now.
• 37:37
  Speaker 5: And I'd be like, hi.
• 37:38
  Speaker 1: And you'd be like, fuck, I went on that podcast
• 37:40
  Speaker 1: one time. I'm an advocate.
• 37:42
  Speaker 5: Let's go. It's the coven, guys.
• 37:44
  Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly.
• 37:45
  Speaker 3: I was going to say, you'll be putting our name
• 37:47
  Speaker 3: in the freezer before you know it.
• 37:49
  Speaker 4: I'd be like, fuck off, girls.
• 37:51
  Speaker 5: Okay.
• 37:52
  Speaker 3: And finally, what are three small things that women can
• 37:56
  Speaker 3: do this week to get their magic back?
• 38:00
  Speaker 5: Okay. Good question. So what are we– we're coming up
• 38:05
  Speaker 5: to the new moon. And so I would take a
• 38:08
  Speaker 5: minute and do a little bit of reading about what
• 38:10
  Speaker 5: this moon means. I would be waking up early and
• 38:16
  Speaker 5: trying to get a sense of like we're in Australia, right?
• 38:19
  Speaker 5: We've got some of the most amazing native wildlife. Like
• 38:21
  Speaker 5: what birds live around your house? I love that one.
• 38:25
  Speaker 5: I'm getting woken up by kookaburras in Paddington.
• 38:27
  Speaker 4: They're so cute.
• 38:28
  Speaker 5: They're so cute but it's early. And what else? Honestly,
• 38:34
  Speaker 5: the witches drank this thing called sack which was like
• 38:37
  Speaker 5: sweet white wine and they would go out late at night,
• 38:40
  Speaker 5: they would drink it in the woods, they would dance
• 38:42
  Speaker 5: around a fire, like go out with your girlfriends and
• 38:44
  Speaker 5: drink some wine and like have one for the witches basically.
• 38:47
  Speaker 4: That is the most perfect.
• 38:49
  Speaker 1: Pull one out for the witches. Pull one out for
• 38:52
  Speaker 1: the witches, lads.
• 38:54
  Speaker 2: Like that is the most perfect checklist I've ever heard
• 38:59
  Speaker 2: anyone say for anyone to do on this show.
• 39:00
  Speaker 4: I feel revitalised. Well and truly.
• 39:03
  Speaker 5: Like literally have.
• 39:04
  Speaker 1: A new zest for life after this episode.
• 39:07
  Speaker 2: Thank you so much. Like you are such an icon.
• 39:11
  Speaker 2: I have the biggest crush on you ever. Yeah, and
• 39:14
  Speaker 2: like thank you for writing such an incredible story book
• 39:18
  Speaker 2: I think this is going to help so many women
• 39:21
  Speaker 2: out there and also I highly encourage men to also
• 39:24
  Speaker 2: read it as well because I think it is education
• 39:27
  Speaker 2: for all is also good for all you know Yeah, exactly.
• 39:30
  Speaker 4: And everybody has feminine energy within them.
• 39:33
  Speaker 3: So there's things that even if you're a man or
• 39:36
  Speaker 3: if you have a partner and you want them to
• 39:37
  Speaker 3: read it, like there are definitely things that they can
• 39:40
  Speaker 3: learn and pull from and benefit. So we'll definitely put
• 39:42
  Speaker 3: a link to the book in the show notes. But
• 39:44
  Speaker 3: for any of the chicks who don't already follow you,
• 39:46
  Speaker 3: where can they find you?
• 39:48
  Speaker 5: So on Instagram, LucyAntonti. I'm on Substack. I have a
• 39:51
  Speaker 5: Substack called The Line. But really on Instagram. That's where
• 39:54
  Speaker 5: I live. I'm a millennial.
• 39:56
  Speaker 2: Love it.
• 39:56
  Speaker 5: Same.
• 39:58
  Speaker 2: With your people.
• 39:59
  Speaker 4: Thank you so much again. And thanks to you, Tix,
• 40:02
  Speaker 4: for having us in the eHoles.
• 40:03
  Speaker 5: We love to be here.
• 40:04
  Speaker 1: Bye.
• 40:05
  Speaker 5: Bye. Born out for the witches.
• 40:06
  Speaker 2: Born out for the witches.