Latest / Destination Unlimited with Victor Fuhrman / Debra DeAngelo – Pagan Curiouser

Transcript

Debra DeAngelo – Pagan Curiouser · Destination Unlimited with Victor Fuhrman

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Speaker 1: My name is Victor Furman. Some call me the Voice.
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Speaker 1: I've always been fascinated with human nature, spirituality, science and
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Speaker 1: the crossroads at which they meet. Join me now and
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Speaker 1: we will explore these topics and so much more with
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Speaker 1: fascinating guests, authors and experts who will guide us to
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Speaker 1: destination unlimited. Four years ago, my dear friend Deborah di'angelo
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Speaker 1: joined me to share her path and her book, Pagan
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Speaker 1: curious a beginner's guide to Nature, magic and Spirituality. Many
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Speaker 1: of her readers ask for more as they were PC
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Speaker 1: Pagan Curiouser. Deborah has answered their request. Deborah DiAngelo is
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Speaker 1: the author of several books. Following a law career in
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Speaker 1: print journalism as a managing editor and award winning syndicated
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Speaker 1: opinion columnist, Deborah now dedicates her professional time to her
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Speaker 1: massage practice and writing. She's a Garden variety pagan who
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Speaker 1: teaches at University MAGICUS. Her website is Deborah D'Angelo dot com,
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Speaker 1: and she joins me this week to share her brand
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Speaker 1: new book, Pagan Curiouser, a joyful path of nature, magic
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Speaker 1: and spirituality. Please join me and welcoming back my friend,
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Speaker 1: Deborah DeAngelo. Welcome back, Deborah.
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Speaker 2: Thank you for having me. It's just really lovely and
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Speaker 2: a privilege, and I'm so grateful for your interest in
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Speaker 2: my book.
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Speaker 1: Deborah, for those meeting you for the first time, please
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Speaker 1: share with our listeners your path, how it led to
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Speaker 1: your career in journalism, and how your passion for pagan
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Speaker 1: practice began.
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Speaker 2: Oh boy, that's a lot of onion layers. I think
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Speaker 2: I'm certain I was born this way, but you know,
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Speaker 2: school and family kind of unless you're unless it's supported,
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Speaker 2: that all kind of gets bled out of you by
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Speaker 2: the time you go through school. And I kept with
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Speaker 2: me though I was always more comfortable in nature with
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Speaker 2: animals than really I was with people. There was always
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Speaker 2: that connection. I always felt energized by it. But then
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Speaker 2: you know, life happens and there's college and babies and
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Speaker 2: marriages and jobs. And my focus had been on psychology
2:38
Speaker 2: and social work and crisis intervention, and I was working
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Speaker 2: in an agency where we planned career paths for people,
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Speaker 2: and I discovered while working with others that what I
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Speaker 2: really wanted to be was a screenwriter. That was my goal.
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Speaker 2: That's a hard path to follow because there's lots of
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Speaker 2: unemployed screenwriters working as waitresses in Hollywood. So I took
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Speaker 2: the next best thing. I saw a job opening at
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Speaker 2: our local newspaper for an editor, and I said, well,
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Speaker 2: it's writing, and it's getting money for writing, so it
3:11
Speaker 2: seems like a step in the right direction. But it
3:14
Speaker 2: turns out twenty seven years later that was a dead
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Speaker 2: end path. I quickly reached as far as I could
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Speaker 2: reach with it, and it did really hone my writing
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Speaker 2: skills and editing skills to a sharp point. So that's
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Speaker 2: really valuable. And it did teach me to be brave
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Speaker 2: with writing in that when you're a columnist. I was
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Speaker 2: an opinion columnist, and there's a famous quote about writing
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Speaker 2: columns that says, if half your readers aren't mad at
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Speaker 2: you at any given point in time, you aren't doing
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Speaker 2: your job. So I was working overtime most of the time.
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Speaker 2: I wrote a lot of political stuff and was always,
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Speaker 2: you know, fists up with the world back in those days.
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Speaker 2: And the publishers sold to a younger person who had
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Speaker 2: a different vision of the newspaper, which had, you know,
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Speaker 2: a long history in our town, and it was clear
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Speaker 2: to me that he was going to destroy the whole
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Speaker 2: legacy of the paper, and I couldn't abide with some
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Speaker 2: of the things he wanted to do. So I quit.
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Speaker 2: That was in twenty eighteen, and it was sort of
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Speaker 2: a free fall at that point into focusing on my
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Speaker 2: massage practice. I've had a massage practice for twenty six years.
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Speaker 2: And also it gave me time to really focus on
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Speaker 2: writing books. And the weird fact is, had I stayed
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Speaker 2: in journalism, I probably never would have written a book
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Speaker 2: because I just simply wouldn't have had the time. But
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Speaker 2: the pagan path we have to dial back from there
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Speaker 2: after I got divorced in my thirties. In my forties,
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Speaker 2: I just I was searching for something. The thing is,
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Speaker 2: I didn't know what it was. I think it was.
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Speaker 2: I was searching for the feeling I used to get
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Speaker 2: when I was small and just out with the wild things,
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Speaker 2: and I went out in search of it. I went
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Speaker 2: to Renaissance fairs and goddess festivals and you know, drumming
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Speaker 2: circles and sound sound healings, and I one day randomly
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Speaker 2: stubbled into a pagan Pride festival and that was like
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Speaker 2: the great epiphany. It's like I walked in and went,
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Speaker 2: this is where I belong, these are my people, and
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Speaker 2: that was my true starting point, So that was probably
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Speaker 2: about twenty six years ago a little more, but discovering
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Speaker 2: that there were, in fact others like me, discovering tribe
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Speaker 2: was really important, where that feeling of not having to
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Speaker 2: explain yourself and why you're doing what you're doing. Everybody
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Speaker 2: just knows why are you wearing this symbol or why
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Speaker 2: are you doing this chant or you know. To find
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Speaker 2: that community at about age forty was truly, you know,
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Speaker 2: changed the whole trajectory of my life. And so the
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Speaker 2: first book I wrote, the Elements of Horse Spirit, I'm
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Speaker 2: a Horse Girl too, I did. That's something I know
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Speaker 2: about writing about horses from a magical perspective. So that
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Speaker 2: was number one. But number two what I went on
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Speaker 2: to write was Pagan Curious and I had been leading
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Speaker 2: a to Roe group for several years and was thinking
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Speaker 2: about writing another book. And we would meet This is
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Speaker 2: pre COVID. We'd meet in my house and a lot
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Speaker 2: of the gals would point to this statue or that
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Speaker 2: rock and say, what is this and what is that?
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Speaker 2: And why is this and why is that? And I
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Speaker 2: went Unfortunately, I don't have a book that I can
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Speaker 2: recommend for where you guys are at like, completely lacking
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Speaker 2: knowledge of witchcraft or paganism, but so curious and so open,
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Speaker 2: and I said, I don't I don't know what to suggest.
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Speaker 2: Most of the books are focused upon witchcraft. And these
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Speaker 2: were plain old people that you know, if they saw
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Speaker 2: witchcraft and the title of a book, they were going
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Speaker 2: to run like their hair was on fire. So one
7:23
Speaker 2: of them pipes up with, well, you need to write
7:25
Speaker 2: it then, and then it was like bingo, So I did.
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Speaker 2: I wrote that first book with them in mind. And
7:32
Speaker 2: that book I likened it to walking into the Big
7:37
Speaker 2: Pagan garden. We've all heard of the big pagan tent,
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Speaker 2: but I like something a little more expansive and organic
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Speaker 2: than a man made tent. So it's a garden. And
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Speaker 2: in the first book, I take you by the hand
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Speaker 2: and say those those are the tulips over there, and there,
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Speaker 2: these are the daffodils, and these are the irises, and
7:56
Speaker 2: here's what they're all about, and aren't they all lovely?
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Speaker 2: And basically it was just what everything is and what
8:04
Speaker 2: is the name of it? Where if you were more
8:06
Speaker 2: wanting more, you could follow that path. But it's really
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Speaker 2: like a tour in someone's house. Here's the living room
8:13
Speaker 2: and here's the kitchen, and make yourself at home. And
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Speaker 2: I wanted it to be very gentle and welcoming because
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Speaker 2: various pagan festivals, I've seen the whole spectrum to some
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Speaker 2: groups that they welcome you in and just you feel
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Speaker 2: like you're right at home, and other groups where you
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Speaker 2: get the hard eye, like what are you doing walking
8:34
Speaker 2: into our suite and why are you here? So I thought,
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Speaker 2: this is a wonderful lifestyle. It's a wonderful perspective to
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Speaker 2: have that's alternative to what is the typical perspective on
8:46
Speaker 2: life and living on our planet. And I wanted to
8:51
Speaker 2: be welcoming. I didn't want anything to be standing in
8:55
Speaker 2: anyone's way. So I wrote a third book about massage
9:00
Speaker 2: that was a little bit too niche for most people.
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Speaker 2: I thought it was spectacular, but it's just it's such
9:05
Speaker 2: a tiny niche. And so when we went on to
9:09
Speaker 2: the fourth my editor said, well, you know, you're kind
9:12
Speaker 2: of all over the place. Why don't you stay in
9:14
Speaker 2: the same vein follow up with Pagan Curious, And I thought, well, dang,
9:19
Speaker 2: that book, you know, was everything in and the kitchen sink,
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Speaker 2: like I don't know what else to put in a book.
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Speaker 2: So I turned to Facebook and I said, those of
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Speaker 2: you who have read that book, I suggested I do
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Speaker 2: a follow up, but I don't know what the focus
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Speaker 2: should be. And one of the people who read the
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Speaker 2: book and really loved it said, well, I know what
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Speaker 2: everything is now, but I don't know what to do
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Speaker 2: with it, And that was the AHA moment. So Pagan
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Speaker 2: Curious is the what is all this stuff? Pagan Curious, Sir,
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Speaker 2: is what to do with all that stuff? So it
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Speaker 2: takes you the next step up, like going from kindergarten
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Speaker 2: to elementary school. It's still written for a beginner. All
10:01
Speaker 2: of my books. I particularly love writing for beginners because
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Speaker 2: it can be so hard for people to ask for
10:09
Speaker 2: help or ask what is that you know for fear
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Speaker 2: of being ridiculed or judged or something. And I like
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Speaker 2: to create spaces in my book where people will know
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Speaker 2: no matter what they ask or what they're curious about,
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Speaker 2: they won't be judged or criticized. They'll be guided, maybe
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Speaker 2: they'll get information, but it will be a safe place
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Speaker 2: to be curious. So Pagan Curious, Sir, it has a
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Speaker 2: much more central focus on becoming comfortable and healthy in
10:46
Speaker 2: your own skin, which doesn't mean working out and losing weight.
10:50
Speaker 2: I mean that in the sense of, you know, how
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Speaker 2: would the goddess view your body and how you live
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Speaker 2: in your body? How does nature do it? The plants
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Speaker 2: and the animals aren't worried about if they look good
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Speaker 2: in a bikini. They're worried about are we healthy? Are
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Speaker 2: we well rested? Are we okay with you know, being
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Speaker 2: whatever organism we are? And it starts there. And the
11:12
Speaker 2: weird part is that book. Right when I got the contract,
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Speaker 2: I had a series of really bad life events and
11:23
Speaker 2: it threw me way off track for about six months.
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Speaker 2: I went six months after signing it and wrote not
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Speaker 2: a word. But I had a contract and I had
11:32
Speaker 2: to get my act together, and eventually I did. But
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Speaker 2: I ended up having to rewrite the book like twice.
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Speaker 2: And I got to the last iteration of that book
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Speaker 2: and I went, it's just all wrong. The beginning should
11:51
Speaker 2: be the ending, and the ending should be the beginning.
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Speaker 2: So I had to, like like a sleeve, turned the
11:56
Speaker 2: whole thing inside out. And that's really tricky because you
12:00
Speaker 2: might reference something you haven't talked yet because you just
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Speaker 2: turned the book inside out. But it needed to be
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Speaker 2: you know, and this is an advantage of working with
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Speaker 2: an editor, a professional editor, because they will give you
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Speaker 2: the hard, cold facts. And after the first draft of
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Speaker 2: the book, I didn't hear from my editor for a while,
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Speaker 2: and she sent me an email and it just said,
12:23
Speaker 2: let's talk, and I went, oh, this can't be good,
12:27
Speaker 2: and so we you know, we zoomed on it, and
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Speaker 2: her comments perfectly echoed how I felt. It's like I
12:36
Speaker 2: felt something was wrong, but I was still so wrapped
12:39
Speaker 2: up in the life events I was dealing with. I
12:42
Speaker 2: was having trouble seeing it and I had to just,
12:47
Speaker 2: you know, first to cry a little. And then you
12:49
Speaker 2: sit your butt in the chair and your fingers on
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Speaker 2: the keyboard and you rip it all the shreds. It's
12:53
Speaker 2: like a dress that you've made, but you know, the
12:55
Speaker 2: leaves are in the neck hole and the ham is
12:57
Speaker 2: up around the shoulders, and you tear it all all
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Speaker 2: apart and take all those parts and reassemble them. But
13:03
Speaker 2: that's sort of the story about how this book evolved,
13:07
Speaker 2: and it was definitely the hardest one, just because of
13:13
Speaker 2: you know, while you're trying to be creative, meanwhile, life
13:17
Speaker 2: insists on continuing to happen. So that made it a challenge.
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Speaker 2: But so that's how it came to be, and that's
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Speaker 2: how my journalism path contributed. It really made my writing sharp.
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Speaker 1: Before we yeah, before we get into pagan curious, you're
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Speaker 1: going to dive into that, but before we do. People
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Speaker 1: are listening right now. Some of them may not be
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Speaker 1: aware of the word pagan or the definition of the
13:45
Speaker 1: word pagan. What is it encompass.
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Speaker 2: It's a big umbrella. So if you mean pagan from
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Speaker 2: the sense of spirituality, you have your Abrahamic religions Christianity, Islam,
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Speaker 2: and Judaism. Those are the Abrahamic religions. Off on the
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Speaker 2: other side you have the non Abrahamic religions, and that's
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Speaker 2: kind of like the everything else and spiritually speaking, that's
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Speaker 2: the pagan world. And that could be so many things.
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Speaker 2: It could mean that you are a Dianic witch, it
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Speaker 2: could mean you're a druidict could just mean multiple things.
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Speaker 2: But what binds them together. At the core of most
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Speaker 2: I won't say not all, because there's always an exception,
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Speaker 2: but at the core of most is a connection to
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Speaker 2: the Earth, the cycles of the Earth, the concept that
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Speaker 2: Gaia is a living entity and it's our duty as
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Speaker 2: pagans to protect her and not damage her. That's really
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Speaker 2: like the bottom line of all of it for me
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Speaker 2: is that connection to the earth. But you also have
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Speaker 2: amongst the pagan community people who are st magicians strictly
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Speaker 2: witchcraft as a skill and not into the spirituality. But
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Speaker 2: in my mind, besides being non Abrahamic, it's that connecting
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Speaker 2: to the Earth's energy, valuing the earth, and making choices
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Speaker 2: in your life that support that, and the spirituality evolves
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Speaker 2: from that organic relationship. And you know, in many of
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Speaker 2: the traditions amongst paganism, they have their own practices and
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Speaker 2: their own courses of study, but most of them have
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Speaker 2: some concept of the four directions or the four energies,
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Speaker 2: you know, east west, north, south, Earth, air, fire, water,
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Speaker 2: and spirit, the non earthly energy. That that's a familiar
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Speaker 2: thing to most pagans. And with that the directions mean something,
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Speaker 2: they mean certain energies, and that right there, if all
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Speaker 2: you had to do spell work or magical work was
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Speaker 2: know about the four earthly energies and spirit, you would
16:15
Speaker 2: already have a whole lot to work with. So I
16:18
Speaker 2: think my preference is I like to keep it simple,
16:23
Speaker 2: keep it natural. It's like I like having sparkly fun things.
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Speaker 2: But bottom line, for me, it all evolves out of
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Speaker 2: how can I how can I apply this particular earthly
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Speaker 2: energy to my intention? And it is not a patriarchal world.
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Speaker 2: For the most part. The concept of a divine feminine
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Speaker 2: is embraced rather than rejected outright and actually discriminated against.
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Speaker 2: I read an amazing book that differentiates it, called The
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Speaker 2: Goddess Versus the Alphabet, and the writing can get a
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Speaker 2: little thick at times. The author's very proud of his words,
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Speaker 2: but the information is just invaluable. He just lays out
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Speaker 2: how the patriarchy affected women and divine feminine energies, and
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Speaker 2: it's just kind of mind blowing, but it really clarified.
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Speaker 2: There's this way of thinking, and then there's everything else,
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Speaker 2: And it's really hard to read that book and not
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Speaker 2: get your hackles up. For me, bottom line, paganism means
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Speaker 2: a natural, organic life, connected to the earth, connected to
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Speaker 2: the life on it, and dedicated to protecting those things.
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Speaker 1: What were the challenges that the original pagans faced in
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Speaker 1: the formation of organized religions?
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Speaker 2: Oh my, the original and funny you asked that I,
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Speaker 2: having just returned from visiting multiple indigenous mounds in Ohio
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Speaker 2: that are pre pre literate but definitely organized culture. I
18:15
Speaker 2: think the challenges they faced was that they were the
18:18
Speaker 2: original ones looking up going why does that big white
18:22
Speaker 2: thing change shape in the sky, and why does it
18:24
Speaker 2: do it on a certain time schedule? And why does
18:27
Speaker 2: the sun disappear and come up again? And you know,
18:30
Speaker 2: why did the animals move at this time? Why did
18:33
Speaker 2: the trees do this at this time? It their spiritual beliefs,
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Speaker 2: and I'm guessing because we don't have really a record
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Speaker 2: from that far back, but their pagan practices and their spirituality.
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Speaker 2: We're trying to make sense of the world around them
18:51
Speaker 2: to maybe take some of the fear away, to give
18:53
Speaker 2: them a little sense of control, Like if we do
18:56
Speaker 2: this ritual on this mountain peak on this when the
18:59
Speaker 2: sun is here, it'll protect our crops. Now, whether it
19:03
Speaker 2: actually did that or not, it could have just been serendipity,
19:08
Speaker 2: but I think it helped them not to be quite
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Speaker 2: so terrified by the great unknown. They were surrounded by
19:15
Speaker 2: the great unknown, where early humans could just as easily
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Speaker 2: be prey as they could be predators. So I think
19:26
Speaker 2: it connected people through time. It gave a chance to
19:30
Speaker 2: pass stories along. You know, we think that only if
19:33
Speaker 2: it's written down was there a story. But we know,
19:36
Speaker 2: like with the Druids, their entire beginning history is pre writing.
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Speaker 2: Their stories are passed through verbal traditions, and I would
19:46
Speaker 2: imagine that reflects something even earlier that the You know,
19:50
Speaker 2: the people gathered around their fires at night to keep
19:54
Speaker 2: the animals the predators away, and they told their stories.
19:58
Speaker 2: But often the stories were myths, Like there is the
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Speaker 2: indigenous myth of the Sky Mother coming down and being
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Speaker 2: cast out of heaven and landing in the sea and
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Speaker 2: lifted up by the great turtle and carried safely to
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Speaker 2: the mud. You know, it's like, was there really a
20:20
Speaker 2: giant turtle that carried her or does it represent a
20:23
Speaker 2: concept that she fell to earth and discovered that the
20:26
Speaker 2: earth would lift her up, that she this wasn't the
20:29
Speaker 2: worst thing on earth. So there's variations of that of
20:32
Speaker 2: these Great Mother goddess stories that are really interesting. I
20:37
Speaker 2: did a presentation once on as many Great Mother Goddesses
20:42
Speaker 2: as I could find cross culturally and through time, and
20:45
Speaker 2: it's amazing how many there are. They're just they're everywhere.
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Speaker 2: That concept in some stories the Great mother Goddess is
20:54
Speaker 2: the Earth, and other stories she births the earth. But
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Speaker 2: these stories are separate by you know, eons and countries
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Speaker 2: and oceans, and that it keeps coming up from the
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Speaker 2: collective unconscious, that there is a feminine energy, that that
21:15
Speaker 2: is where this place we call home began. I think
21:19
Speaker 2: also there probably was, you know, a lot of reliance
21:24
Speaker 2: on magical practice for the benefit of a successful hunt.
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Speaker 2: There's a lot of evidence in cave paintings from these
21:33
Speaker 2: times that that's what was on their minds, because you know,
21:37
Speaker 2: it was a life or death survival. Back then. You
21:40
Speaker 2: had to know when to move out of the mountains
21:43
Speaker 2: because it was going to snow. You had to know,
21:46
Speaker 2: you know, where the most fertile areas were to catch prey.
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Speaker 2: So I imagine that in the early human cultures, paganism was
22:00
Speaker 2: thought about like we think about, well, I'm going to
22:02
Speaker 2: go be a Buddhist now. I think paganism wasn't a
22:06
Speaker 2: word or a thing. It's just what they were. It's
22:09
Speaker 2: how they survived in an often hostile and unpredictable place.
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Speaker 2: So I think that was their sense of security, was
22:18
Speaker 2: these beliefs in divine energy, how it is formed into
22:24
Speaker 2: different avatars, shall we say, but it was it was
22:29
Speaker 2: a survival skill. It wasn't just a fluffy thing we
22:32
Speaker 2: did because we liked pretty rocks. It was how they
22:36
Speaker 2: survived with.
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Speaker 1: The closeting of pagan practice, especially in Europe and the
22:43
Speaker 1: early United States, or what marked the rebirth of open
22:47
Speaker 1: pagan practice often referred to as neo paganism.
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Speaker 2: Well, some of the laws changed. They ended the ban
22:55
Speaker 2: on witchcraft, so you had in Great Britain and that
23:00
Speaker 2: area much more out in the open practices I'm thinking of,
23:04
Speaker 2: like the Golden Dawn era and Pamela Colman Smith coming out,
23:10
Speaker 2: you know, Arthur Waite, those people began emerging, emerging. Alistair
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Speaker 2: Crowley was amongst that group. It became more okay to
23:22
Speaker 2: talk about it, like you wouldn't get burned at the
23:24
Speaker 2: stake or arrested. The United States lags a little bit behind.
23:29
Speaker 2: I mean, it was still in the seventies when it
23:31
Speaker 2: was illegal to do to row, so that's changing. But
23:37
Speaker 2: oddly enough, there are some areas in Pennsylvania where it's
23:39
Speaker 2: still illegal, which just boggles my mind. But I think
23:44
Speaker 2: Gerald Gardner, he gets some credit for bringing witch crapped
23:49
Speaker 2: out into the open I know some people have issues
23:52
Speaker 2: with him, but you know, we got to give credit
23:53
Speaker 2: where credit's due. He stepped out and put it out
23:56
Speaker 2: there that this is something that exists, and I think
24:00
Speaker 2: there's still a lot of stigma today. Not everyone is
24:04
Speaker 2: open to it, but most of it is out of
24:07
Speaker 2: fear or lack of contact or stereotypes. But little by
24:12
Speaker 2: little it's emerged. And then more recently, I think since
24:18
Speaker 2: social media became a thing. So let's see, I got
24:22
Speaker 2: on Facebook maybe mid two thousands, where you made the
24:28
Speaker 2: leap from we had online stuff like we had witchbox,
24:32
Speaker 2: and we had other things where we could find information.
24:35
Speaker 2: But when social media happened Facebook and more recently TikTok, threads, Instagram,
24:43
Speaker 2: so many people who couldn't find each other were able
24:45
Speaker 2: to find each other. That was the good part of
24:48
Speaker 2: social media, that, oh, I want to find people who
24:52
Speaker 2: have a dragon goddess at the center of their belief system,
24:56
Speaker 2: and sure enough you can find central dragon goddess group Facebook.
25:00
Speaker 2: You could you could find people you normally couldn't find.
25:04
Speaker 2: The downside is more recently, since TikTok, it just seems
25:11
Speaker 2: like these these places are flooded with bad information and
25:15
Speaker 2: bad energy, and I used to feel compelled when I'd
25:20
Speaker 2: see something that's just so completely wrong, Like someone will
25:24
Speaker 2: come out with a statement, men cannot be witches. Well
25:28
Speaker 2: wait a minute, actually they can, you know. But I
25:32
Speaker 2: discovered the people that are really into that that vein
25:37
Speaker 2: of paganism and witchcraft, where what they're really interested in
25:40
Speaker 2: is getting lots of followers, getting lots of attention, getting
25:43
Speaker 2: lots of validation, but having no substance under it. It's
25:49
Speaker 2: just well, I've got, you know, thirty thousand followers, so
25:52
Speaker 2: I must know a lot of things. But on the
25:55
Speaker 2: one hand, it's made it very much out in the
25:58
Speaker 2: open conversation. On the other hand, there's just so much
26:03
Speaker 2: bad information and it's a really hard one to balance.
26:08
Speaker 2: So you know, if someone asks me online, if they're
26:12
Speaker 2: asking for help with something, asking for an opinion, I
26:15
Speaker 2: often will chime in. But anymore, when I see these
26:20
Speaker 2: just whacky out in the right field statements and comments
26:24
Speaker 2: and tons and tons of threads just going out into
26:28
Speaker 2: the distance, I just keep scrolling because you get met
26:32
Speaker 2: with resentment and anger if you offer something. I mean,
26:37
Speaker 2: I had a little kerfuffle with some young gal just
26:40
Speaker 2: this week that somebody asked about where could they learn
26:44
Speaker 2: about to row without fear of getting of it turning
26:49
Speaker 2: back on itself. There was apparently a TikTok personality this
26:53
Speaker 2: week who rejected to row and turned back to Christianity.
26:58
Speaker 2: I never heard of her, but she was very fam
27:00
Speaker 2: among the social media people. But me, I never heard
27:02
Speaker 2: of her in my whole life. She had, you know,
27:05
Speaker 2: fifty thousand more followers than I do if somebody had
27:09
Speaker 2: heard of her. But I said, well, here's a list
27:13
Speaker 2: of some people that are safe to follow. And I
27:17
Speaker 2: listed people that either I've read their work and or
27:20
Speaker 2: I've met them that I know, have solid backgrounds, I
27:25
Speaker 2: know have done their study. They all might have a
27:27
Speaker 2: slightly different perspective, but you won't go wrong with these people.
27:31
Speaker 2: So I got into this whole silly discussion about with
27:34
Speaker 2: the younger person that, oh, so you're declaring safe space,
27:38
Speaker 2: and you're making it so if you're not in the
27:40
Speaker 2: safe space, people outside that space, blah blah blah. And
27:43
Speaker 2: I'm like, no, I'm saying these people are safe bits.
27:47
Speaker 2: No more, no lists, you won't go wrong. It's not
27:50
Speaker 2: an exhaustive list, it's just people that I would trust.
27:56
Speaker 2: But how it downspiraled into a hole. You're just a
27:59
Speaker 2: boomer trying to make unsafe spaces for us millennials, and
28:03
Speaker 2: it's just that kind of nonsense. I just don't have
28:06
Speaker 2: any patience for it. But I think that's kind of
28:09
Speaker 2: where we're at. So it's why I appreciate you doing
28:12
Speaker 2: what you do, because you talk to people that have
28:15
Speaker 2: actually put time and effort into studying something and into
28:19
Speaker 2: mastering something, and into communicating it in my self for
28:25
Speaker 2: the greater good of all as a welcome and like,
28:28
Speaker 2: this path isn't frightening. This path is really rich and
28:32
Speaker 2: meaningful and will change your life. But I just appreciate
28:38
Speaker 2: you remembering all of us because there's lots of us
28:41
Speaker 2: out there like that, but we get sort of washed
28:44
Speaker 2: to the shores of social media. It's just a strange phenomenon.
28:49
Speaker 1: Thank you, Deborah. My guest Devora DeAngelo her brand new book,
28:54
Speaker 1: Pagan Curiouser, A Joyful Path of nature, magic and spirituality.
29:00
Speaker 1: Please share with our listeners with it and get all
29:01
Speaker 1: of your books and find out more about you.
29:04
Speaker 2: I have a website, debrad'angelo dot com and you can
29:07
Speaker 2: interact with me there, and my books are on Amazon
29:12
Speaker 2: and Llewellyn dot com and often at metaphysical shops local
29:18
Speaker 2: to other people, and on social media. If you look
29:23
Speaker 2: for a page called Garden Variety Pagan because I like
29:26
Speaker 2: to refer to myself as Garden Variety Pagan. It's on
29:29
Speaker 2: Facebook and Instagram, and I'm also on Blue Sky that's
29:34
Speaker 2: mostly just crickets and cobwebs, and also Threads. Threads is
29:39
Speaker 2: where stuff is really popping. You know, you'll get one
29:43
Speaker 2: hundred people interacting with you in a few minutes, so
29:47
Speaker 2: I'm there as well. I think the easiest way if
29:50
Speaker 2: you really want to contact me one on one is
29:53
Speaker 2: just send an email right from my website. I will
29:56
Speaker 2: always see those and.
29:59
Speaker 1: There you are, and we'll be back with more of
30:01
Speaker 1: Deborah and Pagan Curiouser after these words on the Own
30:05
Speaker 1: Times Radio Network.
30:07
Speaker 3: The cutting edge of conscious radio Home Times Radio IOMFM.
30:12
Speaker 3: Ome Times Magazine is one of the leading online content
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Speaker 3: a global scale. Home Times co creating a more conscious lifestyle.
30:39
Speaker 1: Back on Destination Unlimited. My guest this week the wonderful
30:43
Speaker 1: Deborah di'angelo. Her book Pagan Curiouser A Joyful Path of Nature,
30:48
Speaker 1: magic and spirituality. So what is the first thing that
30:53
Speaker 1: a pagan aspirant should know about starting the practice?
31:00
Speaker 2: Well, if you ask that of fifteen pagans, you'll get
31:02
Speaker 2: seventeen answers. So I'm gonna answer only from my perspective.
31:10
Speaker 2: I think it's it's an unwrapping of who you are
31:16
Speaker 2: if you're caught up in work and stress and this
31:19
Speaker 2: and that and politics, the unwrapping of all that and
31:24
Speaker 2: distilling down to who are you when you're alone with yourself?
31:28
Speaker 2: Who is the you that the goddess knows. The trick
31:32
Speaker 2: is connecting to that, because the goddess, she doesn't care
31:37
Speaker 2: about your clothing or what kind of car you drive,
31:40
Speaker 2: or how if you got to raise. The things that
31:43
Speaker 2: she sees are so much more important. So the Goddess
31:47
Speaker 2: sees in each of us the same that she sees
31:51
Speaker 2: in nature. So you don't see animals and plants wasting
31:57
Speaker 2: a lot of energy on well, this makes me look fat,
32:00
Speaker 2: or well, can I get more money for that thing?
32:02
Speaker 2: I mean, there's a joy in simply being, in pulling
32:10
Speaker 2: in sunlight, in community with others, in sleeping when you're tired,
32:16
Speaker 2: eating when you're hungry. It's a connection to that place
32:23
Speaker 2: in you and everyone has that place, And then we
32:26
Speaker 2: were all born that way. We were born just conduits
32:31
Speaker 2: for feeling and seeing and noticing and in my mind,
32:36
Speaker 2: trying to get back to that place where there's wonder,
32:40
Speaker 2: where there's hope, where there's possibility, and also doing it
32:46
Speaker 2: in alignment with nature and the cosmos. So you begin
32:51
Speaker 2: to become sensitive to the rhythms of the moon, the
32:56
Speaker 2: rhythms of the sun, the seasonal turn of the like
33:01
Speaker 2: I know by going outside where I am in the wheel,
33:06
Speaker 2: I don't need to look at the calendar to say, oh,
33:09
Speaker 2: it's litha right now, and I will know because my
33:15
Speaker 2: Albizia trees, the pink flowers will start turning brown and
33:18
Speaker 2: falling all over the ground like snow, and I'll say
33:21
Speaker 2: it's litha right now. So it's less book knowledge and
33:28
Speaker 2: more intuitive knowledge. So not only are you learning to
33:32
Speaker 2: be comfortable as a natural, organic being, but You're also
33:39
Speaker 2: learning to see all the communication happening outside that you
33:42
Speaker 2: might be missing out on. And it's so easy in
33:47
Speaker 2: modern life to get caught up in all the stuff
33:50
Speaker 2: and the never ending news cycle and the tragedy porn,
33:54
Speaker 2: and the struggle just to pay the bills. Like that's
33:58
Speaker 2: the nice thing about having a pagan core is even
34:01
Speaker 2: when you have struggles, you can go back to that
34:04
Speaker 2: core and find peace and find wonder and find hope,
34:08
Speaker 2: find positivity. Even when things are most bleak, you can
34:13
Speaker 2: find a way to get comfort through a pagan practice.
34:17
Speaker 2: You can find a way to focus on the positive.
34:20
Speaker 2: You can find a way to trust that the universe
34:23
Speaker 2: will work this out. Sometimes you have to be a
34:26
Speaker 2: little careful about how you word your intentions. If you
34:30
Speaker 2: if you word you know, I need a new home
34:33
Speaker 2: in your spell, for example, well the universe might say, okay,
34:37
Speaker 2: you can live in a trailer underneath the bridge. That's
34:39
Speaker 2: a new home. Don't have to be a little more specific,
34:43
Speaker 2: I want to a certain kind of home. You know,
34:46
Speaker 2: you have to be precise in your focus. But it's
34:53
Speaker 2: it's more comforting knowing that, Okay, I've turned this situation
34:57
Speaker 2: over to the greater energy, the divine energy of the universe,
35:02
Speaker 2: rather than me fretting about it NonStop and just letting
35:05
Speaker 2: go of it and seeing where it goes. And so
35:08
Speaker 2: when I do spell work er magical work myself, I
35:13
Speaker 2: always add into it, and it harmed none and for
35:16
Speaker 2: the greater good of all. And so I always remembered
35:19
Speaker 2: that none includes myself. So my choice is gonna harm
35:24
Speaker 2: me because I'm part of the nun Then the universe
35:27
Speaker 2: will say nope, and that spell won't work out. And
35:31
Speaker 2: sometimes in retrospect we see why, but sometimes we don't.
35:36
Speaker 2: So my belief is like, you had this certain intention
35:42
Speaker 2: that you wanted, but the universe goes zipp zip future tense.
35:47
Speaker 2: If you get that thing you wanted, that beautiful car
35:50
Speaker 2: you wanted, that particular car, You're gonna end up that
35:54
Speaker 2: the brake line failed and you're gonna crash over cliff.
35:56
Speaker 2: And I'm not gonna let that happen. So that's how
36:01
Speaker 2: I keep my cool. In a traffic jam, I'll say, oh,
36:05
Speaker 2: the universe is keeping me from being in the cause
36:08
Speaker 2: of this traffic jam. So it provides you, like with
36:11
Speaker 2: a whole pocket full of alternative perspectives on why things
36:18
Speaker 2: happen the way they happen. It offers a pocket full
36:21
Speaker 2: of hope. It gives you a different system for organizing
36:27
Speaker 2: your life other than well, if I just run faster,
36:30
Speaker 2: i'll get where it is I want to go, and
36:33
Speaker 2: that doesn't always work either. So there's a certain sense
36:37
Speaker 2: of calmness to it and a sense of patience because
36:39
Speaker 2: we live in a give it to me right now world,
36:42
Speaker 2: and paganism sort of teaches you to sit back and
36:45
Speaker 2: let this evolve. You know, It's just like a flower blooming.
36:49
Speaker 2: If you go pull the pedals apart because you're impatient,
36:51
Speaker 2: you'll just kill it. So I think there's a sense
36:54
Speaker 2: of no, I have to sit back and wait till
36:56
Speaker 2: this flower blooms on its own if I really want
36:59
Speaker 2: to see it.
37:00
Speaker 1: Beauty, beautiful and pagan Curious, Sir, you share the concepts
37:07
Speaker 1: of magic, body, magic mind, and magic spirit. How do
37:11
Speaker 1: you define magic?
37:14
Speaker 2: Magic is change that comes from intention, It's not random.
37:22
Speaker 2: So in your magical body, magical mind, magical spirit, there's
37:27
Speaker 2: a focus on taking a completely different look at your body, mind,
37:32
Speaker 2: and spirit. These things are all connected. None can exist
37:35
Speaker 2: without the other, but within your body. I ask readers
37:40
Speaker 2: to as part of becoming comfortable in your own skin.
37:44
Speaker 2: I ask readers to consider the magic of what happens
37:48
Speaker 2: inside your body and all these things going on, and
37:52
Speaker 2: to embrace the pleasure that enjoys your body offers you,
37:57
Speaker 2: and the ability to go places and see things and
38:00
Speaker 2: move and jump and dance and all the things you
38:03
Speaker 2: do come from a healthy body. Now, we don't all
38:07
Speaker 2: have a healthy body. We've all got challenges, and so
38:09
Speaker 2: I invite people to start from where you're at work
38:13
Speaker 2: with what you have to work with. But rather than
38:16
Speaker 2: hating your body, which is just nuts if you think
38:18
Speaker 2: about that from a nature perspective, there are no deer
38:22
Speaker 2: or owls out there that going I hate my body,
38:25
Speaker 2: my stomach's too fat. No, they're just living. And so
38:30
Speaker 2: learning to accept and value your own body wherever it's at,
38:34
Speaker 2: to me, is like the groundwork. If you were to
38:41
Speaker 2: just continue hating your own physical temple you live in
38:46
Speaker 2: and go do a bunch of magical things and put
38:48
Speaker 2: on a robe and grab a sparkly wand and put
38:50
Speaker 2: on a crown and say all the right words and
38:52
Speaker 2: go to all the right meetings, it would still be
38:55
Speaker 2: a costume show. It wouldn't be real. It would be
38:59
Speaker 2: like a Chris this tree all the sparkly stuff, but
39:01
Speaker 2: the trees actually did so. Learning to look at your
39:07
Speaker 2: body and be grateful for what still works, and this
39:10
Speaker 2: is especially true in your sixties. I'm so grateful for
39:13
Speaker 2: stuff that still works. That's a magical starting point. And
39:19
Speaker 2: in the book, I liken various body structures to earth, air, fire, water,
39:26
Speaker 2: and I had permission to reprint the Charge of the
39:30
Speaker 2: Goddess and in that gorgeous poem. That was one of
39:34
Speaker 2: the first turning points for me was when I found
39:37
Speaker 2: that poem. She talks about embracing pleasure and joy, that
39:44
Speaker 2: this is what you're here for. When you embrace pleasure
39:47
Speaker 2: and enjoy, you honor me. How far apart is that
39:50
Speaker 2: from the Abrahamic perspectives, It's like one hundred and eighty
39:55
Speaker 2: degrees the other way. So, and I think that the
39:59
Speaker 2: pay world is more forgiving too. You see people of
40:02
Speaker 2: all shapes and sizes and colors and persuasions, and they're
40:06
Speaker 2: just part of the community. I think the pagan community
40:09
Speaker 2: is ahead of the rest of the communities on that count.
40:13
Speaker 2: In your mind, your mind is like that's where all
40:17
Speaker 2: the magic is. Your mind is so magical. It's in
40:21
Speaker 2: your mind where you come up with your intentions and
40:23
Speaker 2: your choices, and spell work and songs and everything comes
40:28
Speaker 2: from your magical mind. That's the wellspring for everything. But
40:34
Speaker 2: I also get into if you are chronically exhausted or
40:39
Speaker 2: you're eating things that aren't allowing your brain to recover
40:43
Speaker 2: at night. If your brain's exhausted and stressed, it's not
40:47
Speaker 2: going to perform magically the way it might if you
40:50
Speaker 2: took care of your body, took care of your sleep,
40:53
Speaker 2: took care of your stressors, free up all that energy
40:58
Speaker 2: to make magical change in your life. That's where your
41:01
Speaker 2: mind comes in. And then of course spirit. I view
41:04
Speaker 2: that magical connection as you have the divine energy of
41:09
Speaker 2: the universe and then you have each of us. And
41:13
Speaker 2: magical work is the conversation between us and the divine
41:19
Speaker 2: energy of the universe. And I sometimes think, you know
41:26
Speaker 2: that we're sort of like little Christmas lights on a string,
41:29
Speaker 2: millions and millions of them, different sizes and shapes, and
41:32
Speaker 2: that divine energy is what lights each of us up,
41:36
Speaker 2: but we can't see the wire. It's there somewhere. But
41:41
Speaker 2: and I also something to consider is that divine energy
41:47
Speaker 2: needs us, because without us, it is just energy. So
41:52
Speaker 2: I liken it in the book. In fact, there's an
41:54
Speaker 2: activity about this that if you think of a prism
41:58
Speaker 2: pure white light from the sun and doesn't have color
42:02
Speaker 2: or shape until it passes through a prism, then you
42:04
Speaker 2: have a rainbow, then you have shape. Well, in terms
42:07
Speaker 2: of magical divine energy, we humans are the prism it
42:13
Speaker 2: passes through to take shape. So there's a synergistic relationship
42:19
Speaker 2: between us and the divine energy the universe. And ultimately
42:22
Speaker 2: we may find that it's all one big sea and
42:26
Speaker 2: we're just a little bit of foam rolling up on
42:29
Speaker 2: the shore here and there. But I think it's like
42:35
Speaker 2: getting all your groundwork in place, body and mind so
42:38
Speaker 2: that you can connect with spirit. And you can't. You
42:44
Speaker 2: can't cheat that system if you ignore one. It's a
42:47
Speaker 2: trichetra of energy. You can't just do one, you have
42:51
Speaker 2: to do them all. But I break it down into
42:55
Speaker 2: such small, bite sized pieces that, like, you know, you
42:59
Speaker 2: don't need to join gym and lose fifty pounds. What
43:01
Speaker 2: you need to do is just move around, feel your
43:04
Speaker 2: body move. Take one minute. I call it a magical minute.
43:07
Speaker 2: Take one minute and just walk around the block or
43:11
Speaker 2: stretch or lie down and breathe. But I strongly feel
43:18
Speaker 2: that connecting to your own physical self is how you
43:22
Speaker 2: then connect to your mental, magical self and your spiritual self.
43:26
Speaker 2: They're just entwined.
43:29
Speaker 1: Let's start talking about some of the basics. How may
43:31
Speaker 1: one prepare the space for their practice.
43:35
Speaker 2: Oh, I spend a lot of time on that because
43:41
Speaker 2: I realized one time when I was up at a
43:44
Speaker 2: retreat and I love the energy around me, the waterfalls,
43:48
Speaker 2: the way things looked and sound and smelled, and I thought,
43:51
Speaker 2: you know, I could do this at home. Why do
43:53
Speaker 2: I have to go to this place to have this?
43:56
Speaker 2: Why could I not have a spiritual center right where
43:59
Speaker 2: I am? And so there's I talk somewhat about chi
44:04
Speaker 2: and the flow of energy and what impedes it, and
44:08
Speaker 2: chi is essentially magical energy, right, It's movement of energy.
44:12
Speaker 2: That's the basics of a magical practice, and it's a
44:15
Speaker 2: basic of functui making your home energetically more livable. So
44:23
Speaker 2: I ask people to go through and really look around,
44:27
Speaker 2: and use your cell phone if you need to, because
44:29
Speaker 2: sometimes you'll see in a photo what you don't see
44:31
Speaker 2: with your eyes because you're so accustomed to looking at it,
44:33
Speaker 2: but to begin with removing things from your environment that
44:39
Speaker 2: impeded your magical excitement. Like if there's things that you
44:44
Speaker 2: have that are heavy energy, somebody that gave it to you,
44:48
Speaker 2: you felt obligated to keep it. Somebody gave you this thing,
44:51
Speaker 2: but it was a sideway swipe at you, like you know,
44:56
Speaker 2: a piece of exercise equipment that's telling you you should
44:59
Speaker 2: be losing. Wait, and you know, get weed all that
45:02
Speaker 2: stuff out, weed it all down. And I do the
45:05
Speaker 2: same thing with the yard, because if you have a yard,
45:08
Speaker 2: you're going to make use of it in this practice.
45:11
Speaker 2: So get rid of all the negatives, strip it down,
45:14
Speaker 2: and then consciously think about what do you want to
45:18
Speaker 2: have in this magical space. Do you want to be
45:23
Speaker 2: doing rituals? Do you want to have gatherings? Do you
45:26
Speaker 2: want to have altars? Do you want one summer all?
45:31
Speaker 2: Does your environment allow you to have everything out where
45:33
Speaker 2: you can see it or do you have to craft
45:35
Speaker 2: away to say no, I need to keep it in
45:38
Speaker 2: my office or private. Some people not everyone's blessed with
45:42
Speaker 2: a pagan congruent partner. So it invites you to figure
45:49
Speaker 2: out how to create an environment that supports your magical
45:53
Speaker 2: growth rather than detracts from it.
45:56
Speaker 1: My guest is Deborah DeAngelo her new book Pagan Curious,
46:00
Speaker 1: a joyful path of nature, magic and spirituality. We'll be
46:04
Speaker 1: back with more after these words. On the Own Times
46:07
Speaker 1: Radio network.
46:09
Speaker 4: Humanity Healing International is a small nonprofit with a big dream.
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46:40
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Speaker 5: So I'm a cat and I just moved in with
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Speaker 5: this new human and she's got this little toy. She's
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Speaker 5: blue bloop. She can't put it down there it is.
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Speaker 5: Oh and get this, She even talks to it. Last
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Speaker 5: week she asked it for Chinese and guess what. Agrel
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47:29
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47:39
Speaker 6: Hi, this is bell Mark. I can find humor in
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Speaker 6: almost anything, but one thing I never laugh about is
47:43
Speaker 6: cruelty to animals. If you don't get the joke eitherre
47:46
Speaker 6: Right People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals. Five on
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47:53
Speaker 1: Back on Destination Unlimited. My guest this week my dear
47:57
Speaker 1: friend Deborah DiAngelo her new book Pagan Curiouser, A Joyful
48:02
Speaker 1: Path of Nature, magic and spirituality. Please share with us
48:07
Speaker 1: there some of the types of rituals that people will
48:09
Speaker 1: learn from your book.
48:13
Speaker 2: Oh where to start? One ritual I particularly like involves
48:21
Speaker 2: centering yourself with the elements, with the energies above the
48:25
Speaker 2: energies below, And I teach people some certain hand postures
48:33
Speaker 2: that I developed myself that represent each of the energies.
48:37
Speaker 2: That you could do this ritual with words or completely
48:41
Speaker 2: without words, just through the postures. And I suggest this
48:46
Speaker 2: ritual has something to do before you go out the door,
48:49
Speaker 2: particularly if you're going to be in office space or
48:52
Speaker 2: with people that aren't on board with this new magical
48:57
Speaker 2: perspective you have. You have to do. It's a little
49:00
Speaker 2: bit of a protection spell, but you welcome those energies
49:06
Speaker 2: and embrace them and then carry them with you and
49:09
Speaker 2: set out during the day. And these postures and this
49:14
Speaker 2: elemental ritual, it pops up over and over in the
49:18
Speaker 2: book because connecting with the elements, like I said, if
49:23
Speaker 2: you only have one thing to work with, the elements
49:26
Speaker 2: are where it's at in my mind. Because you don't
49:29
Speaker 2: need a single thing. You don't need a thing. You
49:32
Speaker 2: might need a compass to find where true north is,
49:35
Speaker 2: but all you need is your own body and your
49:37
Speaker 2: own sense of connection. And this is a calming thing
49:43
Speaker 2: in a world that right now isn't so calm. And
49:47
Speaker 2: then I have another little ritual that's not in the book,
49:52
Speaker 2: but I do it every day, and I learned it
49:54
Speaker 2: from a gal called the Scottish witch who I just adore.
49:58
Speaker 2: Her videos are one but she has a special little spoon.
50:02
Speaker 2: So I got myself a special little spoon. When I
50:05
Speaker 2: have my coffee, I stir it clockwise with intention. With
50:10
Speaker 2: my special little spoon, I make a pentacle and then
50:13
Speaker 2: I encircle it in the cup. And this is a
50:16
Speaker 2: very simple spell for my own protection because I viewed
50:20
Speaker 2: the pentacle within the circle is a symbol of protection.
50:24
Speaker 2: It's got the five points of the body and the
50:27
Speaker 2: circle for protection. And that's how I work with the pentacle,
50:34
Speaker 2: also with spell work, something I do daily. So I'm
50:38
Speaker 2: trying to These are simple things anybody could do right now.
50:41
Speaker 2: They could stop listening to this podcast and go do them.
50:45
Speaker 2: But I have an altar where I have a collection
50:48
Speaker 2: of things and figurines that represent certain energies that I
50:57
Speaker 2: feel really connected to the universe. For example, Hekata was
51:02
Speaker 2: a huge source of energy and getting this book done
51:08
Speaker 2: at all. I discovered Hekata deeply while writing this book,
51:12
Speaker 2: so she's represented Isis is the goddess of magic and
51:18
Speaker 2: witchcraft and speech. I discovered all kinds of things about Isis,
51:23
Speaker 2: but she viewed words as magic, so me as a writer.
51:26
Speaker 2: That's wonderful. And then you know certain crystals, certain things
51:32
Speaker 2: that are meaningful to me. So every morning I stand
51:35
Speaker 2: before this altar and I burn incense as offering, and
51:39
Speaker 2: I bring in a tiny little espresso cup, this pretty
51:44
Speaker 2: little cup that I had as a child. I bring
51:47
Speaker 2: them coffee every morning, because to me, that's just the
51:49
Speaker 2: most loving thing on earth. It's like, you can bring
51:51
Speaker 2: me all kinds of things, but if you bring me
51:52
Speaker 2: a cup of coffee in the morning, that is love.
51:56
Speaker 2: And often there's there's flowers, or there's pretty thing little
52:01
Speaker 2: rocks or blossoms or chocolate. That is a daily reinforcement
52:06
Speaker 2: of my connection to the divine energy of the universe,
52:10
Speaker 2: my appreciation for the various forms it's presented itself to me,
52:15
Speaker 2: and also a place to express gratitude. I don't use
52:20
Speaker 2: that altar as a wish list. It's not where I
52:23
Speaker 2: go to ask Santa Claus for all the stuff I want.
52:26
Speaker 2: That altar is mostly a gratitude alter. I go through
52:30
Speaker 2: a whole lot of thank you for this, thank you
52:32
Speaker 2: for that. I also spend a little time thank you
52:35
Speaker 2: to my guardian angel. Guardian angels are a really late
52:39
Speaker 2: addition to my wheelhouse. I did not grow up Christian.
52:42
Speaker 2: I grew up agnostic, and I used to think all
52:45
Speaker 2: angels were that Christian stuff over there. But I read
52:48
Speaker 2: Silver Raven Wolf's book on Angels Our Companions in Magic.
52:53
Speaker 2: It's called It's a big, thick, exhausted book, and it
52:57
Speaker 2: was just like, ah, the fences were off, I could
53:02
Speaker 2: see all this, and it's like, well, this is a
53:03
Speaker 2: place I've never gone before. So I've started including that.
53:08
Speaker 2: It reminds me to begin the day with gratitude, particularly
53:14
Speaker 2: the older you get. If you wake up at all,
53:17
Speaker 2: be grateful. You woke up, Yay. Everything else that happens
53:22
Speaker 2: that day.
53:22
Speaker 3: Is just a bonus.
53:24
Speaker 2: But if you get to keep waking up, it's just
53:27
Speaker 2: the greatest thing. Ever. Every day is because of my perspective.
53:31
Speaker 2: Every day is full of possibility, full of joy. I
53:36
Speaker 2: can choose not to hyper focus on the horribleness happening
53:40
Speaker 2: in the country. I can choose to focus on being
53:45
Speaker 2: with my horse, or petting my cat, or watering the flowers.
53:49
Speaker 2: So in some ways, gratitude is the roots of a
53:55
Speaker 2: conscious choice to be joyful, and that's altar.
54:00
Speaker 1: In a nutshell, gratitude sounds like a very powerful magic.
54:06
Speaker 1: What would you like readers to take away from Pagan Curiousir.
54:10
Speaker 2: I'd like them to take away a sense of confidence
54:14
Speaker 2: that they can make these changes in their lifestyle to
54:18
Speaker 2: suit it to themselves. Nobody's going to come after them
54:21
Speaker 2: and say you're doing it wrong, or you have to
54:23
Speaker 2: do blah blah blah blah blah. To really embrace the
54:27
Speaker 2: idea of spiritual sovereignty as a generic garden variety pagan
54:33
Speaker 2: as I like to call myself. I don't need anybody's
54:36
Speaker 2: permission to do anything. I don't need anybody's endorsement, I
54:40
Speaker 2: don't need anybody's support. I am one hundred percent locked
54:44
Speaker 2: into I'm the sovereign of this life, and I'll decide
54:48
Speaker 2: what works for me and what doesn't. And I do
54:52
Speaker 2: spend some time talking about boundaries, emotional, psychological, spiritual boundaries
54:57
Speaker 2: where you just have the power to say no two
55:00
Speaker 2: things that harm you. And so I would hope that
55:05
Speaker 2: readers would come away feeling they can shape their magical
55:09
Speaker 2: path the way they want.
55:11
Speaker 1: Absolutely, my guests, the Wonderful Wise Deborah DeAngelo her new book,
55:16
Speaker 1: Pagan Curious Sir, A Joyful Path of Nature, magic and spirituality,
55:21
Speaker 1: Deborah one more time. Please share with listeners where they
55:23
Speaker 1: can get all of your books and find out more
55:25
Speaker 1: about you.
55:26
Speaker 2: Deborhd'angelo dot com. You can find me there, Facebook, Instagram, threads,
55:33
Speaker 2: Blue Sky. Are in the networks I'm on and LinkedIn.
55:37
Speaker 1: And where can they get your books?
55:39
Speaker 2: Amazon and Lleuellen dot com. Wonderful and metaphysical store near you.
55:44
Speaker 1: At a metaphysical store near you, Deborah, thank you so
55:47
Speaker 1: much for joining us sharing this wisdom and this positive
55:51
Speaker 1: energy about paganism in a world that really needs a
55:54
Speaker 1: lot of positive energy right now.
55:56
Speaker 2: Absolutely, I think that's the nut of the whole thing,
56:01
Speaker 2: is that you can choose to have a positive, joyful life.
56:04
Speaker 1: Absolutely, and thank you for joining us on Destination Unlimited.
56:09
Speaker 1: I'm Victor the Voice Furman. Have a wonderful week.