Latest / Life Will Be the Death of Me with Chelsea Handler / The Right Complexion for the Connection with Alex Stapleton

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The Right Complexion for the Connection with Alex Stapleton · Life Will Be the Death of Me with Chelsea Handler

0:00
Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Chelsea Handler. Welcome to Life Will Be the
0:02
Speaker 1: Death of Me, a production of I Heart Radio. Okay,
0:06
Speaker 1: welcome to our podcast. This is Chelsea Joy Handler Brandon.
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Speaker 1: What's your middle name? Anthony Brandon? Anthony? Can I see
0:13
Speaker 1: your last name on this? Okay? And Alexandra Stapleton, who
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Speaker 1: is my documentary director. She's a documentary filmmaker and she
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Speaker 1: happens to be the director of my latest film, which
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Speaker 1: will be released on Netflix on September called Hello Privilege.
0:30
Speaker 1: It's me Chelsea, right. Is that the name we settled on?
0:33
Speaker 1: That is the name. Okay. It was a long, long
0:36
Speaker 1: road to shoot this documentary, very long, Okay. So Alexandra,
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Speaker 1: that's how would you like me to say your name?
0:42
Speaker 1: Alex I call you alex Is it Alexandria, Alexandra, Drea, Dria?
0:47
Speaker 1: But I like alex Okay. So people don't call you Alexandra. No,
0:51
Speaker 1: they call you Alexandria, your mom. No one calls me
0:54
Speaker 1: Alexandria because it's too fucking long. It's too freacking long.
0:57
Speaker 1: And my first name is actually Kristen. Well, that's it's
1:00
Speaker 1: nice to meet you. Then it's good, thank you. But
1:04
Speaker 1: my middle name is Alexandria. I changed it to Alex
1:07
Speaker 1: so people would think I was a man when I
1:08
Speaker 1: first got started. Oh wow, that's smart. Did that help you?
1:12
Speaker 1: I don't know. I don't think so. My first film,
1:15
Speaker 1: I would go into you know, meet the interview subject
1:17
Speaker 1: and they would say, we're waiting for Alex Stapleton and
1:19
Speaker 1: I'm like, that's me, and they're like, no, we're waiting
1:20
Speaker 1: for Alex Stapleton, the director. And so it didn't really
1:23
Speaker 1: work because people still didn't associate me, a young woman
1:27
Speaker 1: of color, you know, with being a director. So right,
1:31
Speaker 1: I don't I don't know. Yeah, well it also helped.
1:33
Speaker 1: I mean, it doesn't go a long way because once
1:36
Speaker 1: they see you, then they're like, oh, you're a woman,
1:38
Speaker 1: let's start disrespecting you. Exactly. Now, that's not every situation.
1:43
Speaker 1: We don't want to I don't want to act like
1:45
Speaker 1: that's what it's like all day long, but it is
1:47
Speaker 1: for just last year, just last year personally. So tell
1:50
Speaker 1: us about some of the films that you've directed to
1:52
Speaker 1: people who aren't familiar with you are So the first
1:56
Speaker 1: film that I directed was called It was about Roger Corman.
2:00
Speaker 1: I don't know why I'm spa Corman's World is what
2:03
Speaker 1: it was called. It was a very long time ago.
2:05
Speaker 1: That was the first film I did. It took me
2:07
Speaker 1: five years to make. I have a crush on him
2:08
Speaker 1: while I did. You did Is he alive? He is alive?
2:12
Speaker 1: Well then I still do Okay, great, just like Robert Muller. Yeah,
2:15
Speaker 1: there's the same majoringe, same age range. Maybe I think
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Speaker 1: Roger's a little bit. Roger's a little probably in his
2:22
Speaker 1: nineties now, but that tall, kind of tall lankie in control,
2:26
Speaker 1: smarter than me. Yes, he's Roger's a sexy guy. I
2:30
Speaker 1: met you right after you came off of shooting something
2:32
Speaker 1: with Lebron for HBO. So I show ran a series
2:36
Speaker 1: right before coming on to this project with you called
2:40
Speaker 1: shut Up and Dribble that Lebron executive produced with his
2:44
Speaker 1: company spring Hill. That was a three part series for Showtime.
2:48
Speaker 1: It was a great show Time. And you know, I
2:51
Speaker 1: direct a lot of branded content. UM have done other
2:56
Speaker 1: docuseries projects. We've I've worked with Eddie Schmidt. Yes, desmid
3:00
Speaker 1: is the director from my Chelsea does doc series and yes,
3:04
Speaker 1: he introduced us. Actually when I was starting my Netflix show,
3:06
Speaker 1: you came in right We met then, so we came together.
3:10
Speaker 1: This was kind of a lengthy process because we started
3:12
Speaker 1: a project, then we kind of stopped down, and then
3:14
Speaker 1: we started again. But we had to get all the
3:17
Speaker 1: right kind of um parts and pieces in place, which
3:21
Speaker 1: was kind of took a lot longer than we thought
3:24
Speaker 1: it would because white people were so resilient or resistant,
3:30
Speaker 1: resistant to speaking, resilient, so resistant to speaking about the
3:38
Speaker 1: subject of white privilege, which is the subject we wanted
3:41
Speaker 1: to encapsulate. Was coming from my own backyard, something that
3:45
Speaker 1: I didn't realize I was a beneficiary of until I
3:48
Speaker 1: was older. I thought I really worked hard for everything
3:50
Speaker 1: I had, it was because of all my talent. And
3:52
Speaker 1: then I realized, we'll wait a second. That can't be
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Speaker 1: only the only part of the equation. So we came together,
3:59
Speaker 1: and you came and kind of had an idea of
4:02
Speaker 1: where we should go and the issues to tackle, and
4:06
Speaker 1: you gave me lots of reading material. One of the
4:09
Speaker 1: books that I want to recommend People's White Rage by
4:11
Speaker 1: Carol Anderson. I'm Done talking to White People about Race
4:15
Speaker 1: is another one by a British woman, is a great
4:17
Speaker 1: book that I read. And then Black Like Me is
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Speaker 1: a great book which is a guy that he puts
4:23
Speaker 1: shoe polish on his face and he poses as a
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Speaker 1: black man in the South. In the time period of time,
4:28
Speaker 1: was that sixties, back in the back in nineteen I
4:34
Speaker 1: want to say early sixties, maybe even I think earlier
4:37
Speaker 1: late fifties. So these were great reading tools for me
4:40
Speaker 1: to get started. Obviously there's myriad options to read about
4:44
Speaker 1: being a person of color or about white privilege or
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Speaker 1: white denial of white privilege. But anyway, you get the picture.
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Speaker 1: So what did you want to accomplish with this film
4:52
Speaker 1: and what do you think we have accomplished with this film?
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Speaker 1: What were your goals and what's the reality I thought
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Speaker 1: we were going to in racism with this film. Yeah,
5:03
Speaker 1: it didn't happen, but um, I know I really wanted
5:07
Speaker 1: to talk to white people. I mean I think that
5:10
Speaker 1: was a really big objective. Even when we first met
5:12
Speaker 1: and we were talking about, um, the different ways that
5:15
Speaker 1: this documentary about white privilege could shape up. I thought that,
5:19
Speaker 1: you know, with all, with every kind of racial incident
5:23
Speaker 1: that happens in the in this country, um, you know,
5:26
Speaker 1: be it on Twitter, with like the Starbucks incident, in
5:29
Speaker 1: white women especially calling the cops on people of color,
5:32
Speaker 1: just because they're black, or even more extreme incidences when
5:37
Speaker 1: things turned violent, you know that when white people commit
5:39
Speaker 1: hate crimes. I feel like white people never really the
5:43
Speaker 1: white perpetrators or the white people that are responsible for that,
5:47
Speaker 1: they kind of don't ever talk to the media, Like
5:49
Speaker 1: they go in hiding. Um, they get pushed, you know,
5:52
Speaker 1: like social media comes after them. The media always gives
5:56
Speaker 1: a voice to black people who have been hurt, and
5:59
Speaker 1: that's great, like we need that. But I feel like,
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Speaker 1: why do these white people kind of get to just
6:04
Speaker 1: disappear without having to really take responsibility for their actions,
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Speaker 1: and not only take responsibility, but but a real chance
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Speaker 1: to see if they can learn, um and understand really
6:16
Speaker 1: like what they did, I don't know, just to to
6:19
Speaker 1: to be responsible for their actions and to to maybe
6:21
Speaker 1: to try to like curb that type of activity, you know,
6:25
Speaker 1: for other white people to stop acting like that. And
6:29
Speaker 1: um we were shut down. Um every white person that
6:34
Speaker 1: I that we went up that we went after to
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Speaker 1: try to speak to them, um uh, to shine a
6:40
Speaker 1: light on what they what they did, and to understand
6:43
Speaker 1: like why why why do you feel so threatened by
6:45
Speaker 1: black people? Why? Why what's going through your head? How
6:48
Speaker 1: how were you raised? How how why is this an issue? Um,
6:51
Speaker 1: no one really wanted to talk. So black people were
6:55
Speaker 1: really were very much willing to talk to us, and
6:58
Speaker 1: we got a lot of black people to participa in
7:00
Speaker 1: this show, Carol Anderson, who was awesome. It was amazing.
7:04
Speaker 1: It tell us a little bit about your background because
7:06
Speaker 1: your mother is black. My mother is black, my father
7:09
Speaker 1: is white. So I am technically by racial, but I
7:13
Speaker 1: identify as a black woman. I grew up in the South,
7:16
Speaker 1: in Houston, Texas. My mother is also a black lesbian,
7:20
Speaker 1: so I grew up with a lesbian mom who is
7:23
Speaker 1: in the South and got to kind of see a
7:27
Speaker 1: very different way of having to deal with the world
7:30
Speaker 1: through my mom and with race. My black family very
7:35
Speaker 1: working class. My white family, they're very Texan, you know
7:39
Speaker 1: a lot of Bubba's. But my family is really close.
7:42
Speaker 1: So I think that what brings them together is this
7:46
Speaker 1: struggle just you know, every single day to put food
7:49
Speaker 1: on the table, to support their families, their kids, send
7:53
Speaker 1: try to send a kid to college, you know, if possible,
7:56
Speaker 1: just the regular things that most Americans want to do.
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Speaker 1: And I feel like, and this is something that we
8:01
Speaker 1: talked about when we first met I feel like the
8:03
Speaker 1: South gets a lot of like the attention when it
8:06
Speaker 1: comes to race relations because everyone's like, oh, God, down South,
8:09
Speaker 1: everything is so messed up. And that's what people that's
8:12
Speaker 1: like the narrative of you know, liberals in California, especially
8:15
Speaker 1: white people and in New York coastal elites, they feel
8:19
Speaker 1: like they live in this kind of utopia, and people
8:23
Speaker 1: in the South or you know, it's like the clan
8:25
Speaker 1: is still coming and white people are it's segregation is
8:27
Speaker 1: still alive and well, and Jim Crow is alive and well.
8:30
Speaker 1: There are problems in the South, for sure, but I
8:32
Speaker 1: have never lived in a more segregated environment than my
8:36
Speaker 1: time in Los Angeles, right, Which is something that we
8:38
Speaker 1: talked about in the film, because we realize that while
8:42
Speaker 1: these coastal a liberal coastal liberal elites or liberal coastal
8:48
Speaker 1: elites are okay with saying, you know, voicing their opinions
8:53
Speaker 1: that they want everybody to be treated equally, that every
8:55
Speaker 1: you know, everyone's progressive, everyone wants equal rights for everybody,
8:58
Speaker 1: we still self segregate. We don't want to live next
9:01
Speaker 1: door to black people because white people live in certain
9:03
Speaker 1: areas and black people live in certain areas, and Asian
9:05
Speaker 1: people live in certain areas, and Korean people live in
9:07
Speaker 1: certain areas, not to be confused with Asian people, and
9:10
Speaker 1: that everybody self segregates in this city as as they
9:13
Speaker 1: do in many metropolis is if that's how you say
9:15
Speaker 1: that plurally but metropoli if uh. But the other thing,
9:21
Speaker 1: and then the opposite is true that black with people
9:23
Speaker 1: and white people in the South have no problem living
9:26
Speaker 1: together and community and having community get together. They just
9:30
Speaker 1: don't want black people having the votes and the voices
9:32
Speaker 1: that they have. So it's the opposite. There's two two
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Speaker 1: bad things, right, Yeah, I mean I think if we're generalizing,
9:41
Speaker 1: I mean those are really big, big generalizations of of
9:45
Speaker 1: the differences. I think that down South. Look, and I'm
9:48
Speaker 1: from one part of the South, but I think that
9:50
Speaker 1: the cultures do commingle more because, um, class is kind
9:57
Speaker 1: of like more of an issue a lot of the times.
10:02
Speaker 1: It's not to say that that, you know, as a
10:04
Speaker 1: black woman growing up in the South, and especially like
10:06
Speaker 1: what my mother went through that um my mother was
10:09
Speaker 1: born into you know, during Jim Crow, Uh, the South
10:14
Speaker 1: was completely segregated. Integration happened when she was in high school.
10:17
Speaker 1: So I'm first generation integration. UM, I'd say for that
10:21
Speaker 1: big leap to happen, it's actually pretty progressive compared to
10:27
Speaker 1: Los Angeles or even New York. You know, I agree
10:29
Speaker 1: with you. I think that people choose to self segregate
10:33
Speaker 1: here a lot, but then they go to the ballot,
10:35
Speaker 1: you know, or they feel like, oh, I'm I love Obama.
10:39
Speaker 1: I mean, that was another thing that we connected over
10:41
Speaker 1: that I think a lot of California white liberals, UM,
10:44
Speaker 1: I felt that there was a race problem, um when
10:48
Speaker 1: Donald Trump got elected, and that wasn't really news to
10:52
Speaker 1: most people of color, and that was something that we
10:54
Speaker 1: kind of talked about. You thought that, I mean, I
10:56
Speaker 1: don't want to speak for you, but that please do.
10:59
Speaker 1: It's better than I don't when I speak for myself,
11:02
Speaker 1: but that you felt that we had kind of moved
11:04
Speaker 1: past race right with Obama being a Laively, I thought
11:07
Speaker 1: we were moved past racism and we were moving past uh, sexism.
11:11
Speaker 1: I mean, I didn't even realize that sexism was the
11:14
Speaker 1: issue that it was before this Me Too movement. Okay,
11:18
Speaker 1: we're gonna take a quick break and we'll be right back. Brandon,
11:23
Speaker 1: what about you? You grew up in South Dakota. Yeah,
11:25
Speaker 1: I grew up in the Midwest, and are there any
11:28
Speaker 1: black people there? In South Dakota? There is a large
11:30
Speaker 1: Native American population, so for us, that was the segregation
11:34
Speaker 1: that you saw was the Native Americans who still live
11:36
Speaker 1: on reservations. But what's interesting here Alex talked about the
11:39
Speaker 1: race issue that sometimes it's out of sight, out of mind.
11:42
Speaker 1: So you think these issues have been resolved, but then,
11:44
Speaker 1: like I told you recently, I was in San Diego
11:45
Speaker 1: with my boyfriend and someone drives down and yells fags
11:48
Speaker 1: at us, and it's like, oh no, these things are
11:50
Speaker 1: still happening. You just live in such a bubble that
11:53
Speaker 1: you forget there are places outside of your area that
11:57
Speaker 1: are still facing these issues. Friends are still going through things. Okay,
12:00
Speaker 1: this is a question really quick. You are classying people
12:02
Speaker 1: as black. What is appropriate African American or black? Before
12:06
Speaker 1: I continue, I think it's up to the individual. Okay.
12:09
Speaker 1: I prefer black, Okay, because I think African Americans sounds
12:13
Speaker 1: really formal okay to me personally, But if if I
12:16
Speaker 1: meant another black person or like I need to be
12:18
Speaker 1: addressed as in Africa, Okay, Well, for like a default
12:20
Speaker 1: white person who just wants to be respectful, Like what
12:23
Speaker 1: is there one that we should go with? In your opinion,
12:26
Speaker 1: I think you're safe with either. Okay, well, so like
12:29
Speaker 1: African American friends who still say like yeah, like I'm
12:31
Speaker 1: in l A and I'll go to a club and
12:32
Speaker 1: like you get a second look like there's and so
12:34
Speaker 1: it's not until someone says something because if you're not
12:37
Speaker 1: personally affected by it, like I haven't been called a
12:39
Speaker 1: fag since junior high and I'm in you know, liberal
12:42
Speaker 1: San Diego thinking like their rainbow flags flying, that's never
12:44
Speaker 1: gonna happen here for me walking down the street holding
12:46
Speaker 1: a hand, but it still does, and it's important to
12:49
Speaker 1: have those reminders. I think that these issues are not resolved,
12:51
Speaker 1: like they are still happening and we need to be
12:53
Speaker 1: aware of it. And San Diego is not as liberal
12:55
Speaker 1: as l A. No, but you start, I mean it's
12:58
Speaker 1: more pretty conservative. Yeah, I mean, well, okay, for me,
13:01
Speaker 1: it was like you're being in are in a serious
13:03
Speaker 1: like there are rainbow flags flowing right right, you're not
13:06
Speaker 1: other gay couples that I'm not an anomaly and yeah,
13:08
Speaker 1: but were you flying those rainbow flags off of your
13:10
Speaker 1: own shoulder or were there, Actually, sorry, rainbow fireworks out
13:13
Speaker 1: of my butt hole, Like that's how they how you
13:16
Speaker 1: celebrate pride. Thank you, thank you very much. So to
13:21
Speaker 1: that point, I think that there are a lot of
13:23
Speaker 1: us who kind of assume, you know, when I say
13:26
Speaker 1: us white people, oh, I've not seen racism lately, it's
13:30
Speaker 1: not happening. And it is. And that's kind of like
13:33
Speaker 1: the thing though, right, It's like white privilege is that
13:37
Speaker 1: you don't have to deal with it on the day,
13:39
Speaker 1: on a day to day but or notice it or no,
13:41
Speaker 1: you're not looking out for racist acts because you're surrounded
13:44
Speaker 1: mostly by people who look like you. Yeah, and as
13:47
Speaker 1: a and I think that, I mean, it goes back
13:50
Speaker 1: to why I think it was easier for us to
13:52
Speaker 1: find black people to sit down and talk with us, because,
13:56
Speaker 1: I mean, pretty much the culture black people as a culture,
13:59
Speaker 1: it's a weird used to having these conversations. It's not um,
14:03
Speaker 1: it doesn't like it doesn't make us nervous. Um. But
14:07
Speaker 1: I think that we found and and I don't I
14:10
Speaker 1: don't think it's a secret that white people kind of
14:12
Speaker 1: like the hair stand up on their backs a little bit.
14:15
Speaker 1: Like the minute that we get you know, people get
14:17
Speaker 1: into a racial conversation or a conversation about race, because
14:22
Speaker 1: my personal opinion is that and I even I mean,
14:25
Speaker 1: I would say this even for my white family, like
14:28
Speaker 1: white people tend to take things personal when we talk
14:31
Speaker 1: about race. They tend to make it about them. It's
14:35
Speaker 1: like the only time that they take on this weird,
14:40
Speaker 1: But it's a classic defense mechanism. Anytime you're defending yourself,
14:43
Speaker 1: you want to like lay blame, get blame off of you,
14:46
Speaker 1: so which means that it doesn't mean you're guilty, but
14:49
Speaker 1: you're acting like it. Yeah, when instead you can engage
14:52
Speaker 1: somebody and say, oh, how can I be better educated
14:54
Speaker 1: on the subject matter, Like you know, when you're talking
14:57
Speaker 1: to somebody in the trance community, what would you like
14:59
Speaker 1: me to refer to you as be generous and thoughtful
15:03
Speaker 1: and consider it? And then then you can't make a mistake,
15:05
Speaker 1: because how can that be a mistake. You can't ask
15:08
Speaker 1: a question and then be attacked for wanting to know
15:10
Speaker 1: the answer. That's just common courtesy. Well, that's why I'm
15:14
Speaker 1: so excited for. This is the podcast I've been most
15:16
Speaker 1: excited for because and so when you say, like, oh,
15:18
Speaker 1: white people don't want to talk to us, like God,
15:20
Speaker 1: that's so interesting because like I was so excited, like
15:22
Speaker 1: I wrote questions on this morning, like I couldn't stop
15:24
Speaker 1: thinking about Okay, so Alex, it's coming in, like how
15:26
Speaker 1: can I grow as person? Like how can I be better?
15:28
Speaker 1: And I think sometimes people take that on as like
15:30
Speaker 1: they just want to cause but seeing the documentary be
15:34
Speaker 1: produced and still realizing like no, there are always ways
15:37
Speaker 1: to grow. And of course, with like the political climate
15:39
Speaker 1: and in the media, you see so much more of
15:42
Speaker 1: what the issues really are. And like one of them
15:44
Speaker 1: I want to talk about later is Hallie Bailey being
15:47
Speaker 1: cast as the Little Mermaid Disney, right, who is an
15:50
Speaker 1: African American, you know, young girl, and people are up
15:53
Speaker 1: in arms about it, and so I just haven't been
15:54
Speaker 1: able to stop thinking about it. So today before I
15:56
Speaker 1: came in and like this is like I'm so lucky
15:58
Speaker 1: to be able to go and like talk about this
15:59
Speaker 1: and nasty questions because that's the only way to get better.
16:01
Speaker 1: So it's sad that like someone else who is a
16:04
Speaker 1: Caucasian white would not want to take that opportunity. Well
16:08
Speaker 1: that and I think I think the really big thing
16:11
Speaker 1: and I hope that this documentary because I feel like
16:14
Speaker 1: it's it's not like there's a you have to be
16:17
Speaker 1: white or black or Latino or whatever to watch it.
16:20
Speaker 1: But I think that it's because we're kind of using
16:23
Speaker 1: your story, Chelsea, is like your story of white privilege.
16:27
Speaker 1: I feel like it might resonate with white audiences. The
16:30
Speaker 1: soundtrack should have been as I walked through life as
16:36
Speaker 1: a white no problem most and nothing happened or everything happened.
16:41
Speaker 1: But I feel like white people, I mean, it's not
16:45
Speaker 1: a feeling, it's factual. White people need to talk to
16:48
Speaker 1: white people more. You know, it's like men who don't
16:51
Speaker 1: talk about their emotions. Yeah, it's that. It's that being
16:54
Speaker 1: stuck and not a woman able to deal necessarily get
16:58
Speaker 1: that man to talk about as emotions because there's so
17:01
Speaker 1: much stuff attached to that. And I feel it's a
17:05
Speaker 1: fact that that a lot of white people don't necessarily
17:09
Speaker 1: hear the same message from a black person or you know,
17:12
Speaker 1: a person of color communicating, hey, I was offended because
17:15
Speaker 1: you did this, this and this and this, Whereas if
17:17
Speaker 1: a white person enters the equation and talks to another
17:21
Speaker 1: white person, it's like they can have this off the
17:22
Speaker 1: record conversation, you know about how to be a better ally. Yeah,
17:27
Speaker 1: so I think it's a similar thing. I think people,
17:30
Speaker 1: you know, white people are stuck, but with their lack
17:32
Speaker 1: of I mean, not all white people. I think there's
17:34
Speaker 1: obviously many that are trying to do a better job.
17:38
Speaker 1: But I do think that it is similar to men
17:40
Speaker 1: being stuck emotionally. You know, it's like that hump you
17:42
Speaker 1: don't want to get over, and when you do get
17:44
Speaker 1: over it, you're like, Okay, I'm so much more educated now.
17:47
Speaker 1: You know, now I get it, So tell me about Okay,
17:50
Speaker 1: because you forced me to reunite with my ex boyfriend
17:54
Speaker 1: from high school, I forced you to basically, Yeah, I mean,
17:58
Speaker 1: how would you frame that I don't want to meet
18:00
Speaker 1: him again? And you know you didn't, Well, you were
18:02
Speaker 1: very It's not that you didn't. I would that I
18:05
Speaker 1: were nervous, yes, And I didn't know if he was
18:07
Speaker 1: you know, how he was going to look at me.
18:09
Speaker 1: I mean, he had spent fourteen years incarcerated, which I
18:14
Speaker 1: had no idea because you told me I think I've
18:16
Speaker 1: been out for fourteen years, so we flipped that information.
18:20
Speaker 1: So that was a shocker. But I did go and
18:22
Speaker 1: see him, and this was a guy who I dated
18:24
Speaker 1: in high school. It was a drug dealer. His name
18:26
Speaker 1: was Tayshawn. We got arrested a couple of times for pot. Well,
18:30
Speaker 1: he got arrested. I was let go every time. I
18:32
Speaker 1: got pregnant a couple of times, had two abortions, and
18:36
Speaker 1: then I moved out, went back to my community and
18:39
Speaker 1: never saw him again. And then he ended up being
18:42
Speaker 1: put in the system for minor possession of marijuana. Now
18:46
Speaker 1: it wasn't it wasn't a couple of yeah, So that
18:48
Speaker 1: led to another one and which led to him being
18:51
Speaker 1: found guilty of armed robbery. But he had had a
18:53
Speaker 1: full scholarship to un l V, which he lost basically
18:57
Speaker 1: because of being put into that system where I was
19:00
Speaker 1: there for both times and was told by the police
19:03
Speaker 1: to go back to my house wherever that was. And
19:06
Speaker 1: when I was done with Taishan, when I woke up
19:08
Speaker 1: and was like, okay, I'm not going to be in
19:09
Speaker 1: this world. Actually, my father dragged me out of there
19:12
Speaker 1: by my hair and was like, come back, You're not
19:15
Speaker 1: staying here anymore. I was able to go back into
19:17
Speaker 1: my life and go I didn't graduate high school. I
19:20
Speaker 1: wasn't supposed to graduate high school, and time but because
19:23
Speaker 1: of where I was from and because of my family,
19:25
Speaker 1: and they bent the rules for me, and I went
19:28
Speaker 1: to summer school and I graduated. I had lost all
19:30
Speaker 1: credit of my junior year in high school and made
19:33
Speaker 1: it up in a summer at my own pace. I
19:36
Speaker 1: went to alternative school so I could graduate in time.
19:38
Speaker 1: So I was afforded the luxuries that Taishan would never
19:41
Speaker 1: ever have been afforded. And his life was pretty much
19:45
Speaker 1: it's not ruined because he's out now and he has
19:47
Speaker 1: five children, and he's got a job, and he's healthy
19:50
Speaker 1: and he's not using. But his life went off the track,
19:53
Speaker 1: whereas mine was fine and from an outside perspective, largely
19:59
Speaker 1: due to the color of years. Again, yeah, you had
20:00
Speaker 1: the complexion. I wouldn't say that was the Yeah, that's
20:03
Speaker 1: what said. I had the complexion for the connection. And
20:06
Speaker 1: then Tyshawn also thought we were going to get back
20:08
Speaker 1: together and that he was coming to California to live
20:10
Speaker 1: with me, and I had to remind him that he's
20:13
Speaker 1: on parole and he can't leave the state of New Jersey.
20:15
Speaker 1: I would have been a fun surprise for me. I
20:17
Speaker 1: think that that was a really interesting point, like behind
20:21
Speaker 1: the scenes, because when I met you. I feel like
20:24
Speaker 1: the narrative in the story. I mean, you even open
20:25
Speaker 1: this podcast up with white privilege. For you, I think
20:28
Speaker 1: you kind of in your head thought that it started
20:30
Speaker 1: when you got to l A and then bam, you know,
20:32
Speaker 1: the white privilege meter was on right you started, you
20:35
Speaker 1: got this career. Then I became an elitist, which is
20:38
Speaker 1: what I always wanted to be, which is, you know,
20:40
Speaker 1: my goal was to have lots of money and cleaning
20:43
Speaker 1: ladies and people who worked at my house because I
20:45
Speaker 1: wanted the exact opposite experience of growing up in my
20:47
Speaker 1: parents house. So that's that. So that's the truth of
20:50
Speaker 1: the matter, and that's where I think that's where it
20:52
Speaker 1: turned on for you. And I think with the film
20:56
Speaker 1: what we were trying to accomplish was to say, no,
21:00
Speaker 1: this this goes way deeper than that. And the fork
21:03
Speaker 1: in the road probably started even before Tyshan. It definitely did,
21:07
Speaker 1: but that was when you were still in high school
21:09
Speaker 1: and look at the difference of how your life turned
21:12
Speaker 1: out compared to his. And it's not to it's not
21:15
Speaker 1: to exploit Tyshon. It's not to make it like oh,
21:17
Speaker 1: he like you said, he's in a really good place
21:19
Speaker 1: right now, and his family, like they're very happy and
21:23
Speaker 1: he is not using and I think, you know, has
21:26
Speaker 1: kind of come out of that, but he lost a
21:27
Speaker 1: lot and it was interesting for me to kind of
21:32
Speaker 1: try to peel back the layers a little bit too,
21:35
Speaker 1: for you to see like, oh no, this goes way
21:39
Speaker 1: deeper than just being in California with my comedy career,
21:41
Speaker 1: you know. And I think that's kind of runs parallel
21:45
Speaker 1: to how I think white people think about race. Like
21:47
Speaker 1: you kind of white people are like, oh well, I
21:51
Speaker 1: worked really hard for this, and Okay, I can kind
21:53
Speaker 1: of see what you're saying a little bit, you know,
21:55
Speaker 1: when it comes to like my job or or you know,
21:58
Speaker 1: they want to kind of they can accept white privilege
22:01
Speaker 1: and small doses, but white privileges it's it's yeah, it's huge,
22:05
Speaker 1: It systemic. It's you know, it goes all the way
22:08
Speaker 1: down to like too when we were babies in a hospital,
22:11
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. It's so rooted in like
22:14
Speaker 1: our everyday life. You know, we're judged by our sex
22:18
Speaker 1: that we are, as well as the race that we are,
22:20
Speaker 1: and like where we come from. I mean, all of
22:22
Speaker 1: these things are factors and how our lives are shaped.
22:25
Speaker 1: We didn't get really deep when our film. We weren't
22:28
Speaker 1: able to cover every topic, but I thought that it
22:31
Speaker 1: was really interesting that your story, also with Tyshan and
22:35
Speaker 1: what you experienced in high school, also was reflective of
22:38
Speaker 1: what was happening in the state of New Jersey. And
22:41
Speaker 1: to go back to this whole false narrative that everything's
22:44
Speaker 1: okay on the coasts and everything's fucked up in the south.
22:48
Speaker 1: New Jersey is like one of the worst states when
22:50
Speaker 1: it comes to the disparity of white and teens of color,
22:54
Speaker 1: but specifically black teens that are incarcerated. I think the
22:57
Speaker 1: national average, and we have to this is a fact checking,
23:02
Speaker 1: I believe the national averages seven to one, and in
23:04
Speaker 1: New Jersey it was thirty to one. I think it's
23:08
Speaker 1: going to be a shock to people that New Jersey
23:10
Speaker 1: is actually very messed up when it comes to they
23:14
Speaker 1: have a lot of racism in New Jersey and they're
23:16
Speaker 1: and they're dealing with it on a systemic level, and
23:18
Speaker 1: there's people they're fighting the good fight to do that work.
23:21
Speaker 1: But so it's no coincidence that you know, your story
23:24
Speaker 1: actually proves the statistics you've got when you encounter law enforcement.
23:29
Speaker 1: It was like, Oh, this poor girl needs to go
23:31
Speaker 1: back to hurt people, whereas Tyshawn is you know, thought
23:34
Speaker 1: of as a perpetrator, you know, no second chances. And
23:38
Speaker 1: that was something that Ryan when we sat down with
23:40
Speaker 1: with Ryan and New Jersey, he I think he really
23:43
Speaker 1: was good at explaining that for too many black and
23:46
Speaker 1: brown kids and teens, there are no second chances. You know,
23:51
Speaker 1: there are no um, there's no there's no room to
23:55
Speaker 1: mess up. And I think that is something that's armored.
23:57
Speaker 1: That are a reality that I think that I wear,
24:01
Speaker 1: and that people of color where all the time that
24:05
Speaker 1: we don't always if I mess up on a job,
24:07
Speaker 1: it might like devastate my career, you know. And for
24:09
Speaker 1: a white male especially, I would say even more so
24:12
Speaker 1: than a white woman, it's like, oh, you know, we're
24:14
Speaker 1: very forgiving of mistakes, and especially with teens and with
24:19
Speaker 1: young people and with kids, I think that you've got
24:22
Speaker 1: a lot of opportunities to correct yourself. Yeah. I mean,
24:25
Speaker 1: there was a judge the other day that excused a
24:27
Speaker 1: boy that was accused of right because he had good grades. Really,
24:32
Speaker 1: there was an article I read. I mean, I don't
24:33
Speaker 1: know what came of the case. But yeah, he was saying, well,
24:35
Speaker 1: he should get lesser sentenced because he's doing really well
24:38
Speaker 1: in school and he had a scholarship, as if that
24:41
Speaker 1: exonerates you. What is your experience working as a female
24:44
Speaker 1: black director. I've been working. I dropped out of school.
24:48
Speaker 1: My father doesn't know that, but I dropped out of
24:51
Speaker 1: school when I was nineteen. Well that's how you become
24:53
Speaker 1: a director. Congratulations, And I'm turning forty. Congratulations for twenty years.
24:59
Speaker 1: And I started out from the bottom, you know, as
25:01
Speaker 1: a p A and like in turn actually and worked
25:03
Speaker 1: my way up. I don't think I thought about race,
25:06
Speaker 1: to be honest, in my twenties a lot, because it
25:09
Speaker 1: was just so hard. I mean, I was living in
25:11
Speaker 1: New York and it was just hard to like keep
25:12
Speaker 1: the lights on. Like I just I don't know. I
25:16
Speaker 1: was just on an autopilot and I didn't really think
25:19
Speaker 1: about being a woman. And I don't think I thought
25:21
Speaker 1: about my race often. It wasn't until like after my
25:24
Speaker 1: first film that I started to notice this weird kind
25:29
Speaker 1: of difference with all of my colleague, like all the
25:31
Speaker 1: guys that were kind of that we all started at
25:34
Speaker 1: the same time and when they made their first feature.
25:37
Speaker 1: Their careers started and they were get you know, they
25:40
Speaker 1: were making they were directing commercials and getting TV offers
25:43
Speaker 1: and and I was like, how is this magically happening?
25:46
Speaker 1: And then my film, you know, I'm not saying Corman's
25:49
Speaker 1: World is like going to blow you away, but it
25:51
Speaker 1: got into the can Film Festival, it competed at Sundance.
25:54
Speaker 1: We got bought. I mean that's a big deal for
25:56
Speaker 1: an indie. Like it's a great film. I've seen it, well,
25:58
Speaker 1: thank you. And I couldn't get a job. And it
26:03
Speaker 1: was so weird because I had a lawyer and I
26:06
Speaker 1: just remember her like you need to do this, and
26:08
Speaker 1: you need to do that, and I like, I need
26:09
Speaker 1: to pay my rent next month, Like I you know,
26:11
Speaker 1: I don't what am I missing? Like how is everyone
26:14
Speaker 1: else continuing to work and and and and to grow
26:17
Speaker 1: and excel? And I'm not. And I'm not going to
26:20
Speaker 1: say that that was because I was a black woman,
26:24
Speaker 1: but I started to my eyes were kind of open
26:26
Speaker 1: to a little bit of a different reality that I
26:28
Speaker 1: felt that I was facing. And I probably feel like
26:31
Speaker 1: it was a little bit more of just being a woman,
26:33
Speaker 1: because I think that this business, I think it's different
26:36
Speaker 1: for black men than it is for black women. You know.
26:38
Speaker 1: I think that to be male in Hollywood as a
26:41
Speaker 1: director is a huge advantage, and it still is. I
26:44
Speaker 1: think right now it's great to see so many Black
26:49
Speaker 1: women and so many women just in general get these
26:52
Speaker 1: opportunities to direct on television shows and to get features
26:56
Speaker 1: and to get you know, big budgeted features off the ground.
26:59
Speaker 1: But see how long it lasts. Do you think it's
27:02
Speaker 1: women like Shonda Rhymes that have Like to me, she
27:05
Speaker 1: was one of the first big mainstream You saw her everywhere,
27:08
Speaker 1: she had hit shows, a contract with a network. Was
27:11
Speaker 1: there a turning point that you did see that You're like,
27:13
Speaker 1: it's this person or it was this event that now
27:16
Speaker 1: diversity in African America for black people. I think it
27:19
Speaker 1: was Ava. I think she was, yeah, diverne. I think
27:24
Speaker 1: that she because Shonda Rhymes is like doing the scripted
27:29
Speaker 1: television kind of thing and is and I think that
27:32
Speaker 1: she's great and that's amazing. It just didn't really affect me.
27:35
Speaker 1: I met Ava Sundance with Corman actually, and I was
27:38
Speaker 1: on a panel because it's Sundance. That year I was
27:42
Speaker 1: a black female director with the movie and competition and
27:46
Speaker 1: I wasn't invited to any of the black events because
27:48
Speaker 1: for some reason, no one thought that I was black.
27:50
Speaker 1: I don't know if it was because of the movie
27:52
Speaker 1: that I did or whatever. And I wrote to that
27:54
Speaker 1: I think it's like the Black House at Sundance. And
27:55
Speaker 1: I wrote to them, I was like, you're doing all
27:58
Speaker 1: these events for all the black directors, that's dance and
28:00
Speaker 1: I haven't, like, can I come? And they were like,
28:03
Speaker 1: oh shit, like we thought you were Native American. I didn't.
28:08
Speaker 1: I don't know what they thought I was. I don't
28:10
Speaker 1: think they thought I was a woman either. That's where
28:13
Speaker 1: the name. That's where it happened to me as well
28:16
Speaker 1: on the phone. On the phone, Um, but Ava did
28:20
Speaker 1: I did it. So anyway, they invited me to come
28:21
Speaker 1: and speak at this on this panel and Ava was there,
28:23
Speaker 1: and that was the first time I met her. And
28:24
Speaker 1: this is before she was soup. She blew up. And
28:28
Speaker 1: Ava's magical because she doesn't just take success for her.
28:32
Speaker 1: She brings everybody with her and I and she was
28:34
Speaker 1: doing that then, like no one knew who I was.
28:36
Speaker 1: I was just like young. I was like twenty eight
28:38
Speaker 1: years old and I was on a panel with you know,
28:41
Speaker 1: a black audience talking about Roger Corman and it was
28:45
Speaker 1: not hitting, and Ava was like, um, Ava really had
28:50
Speaker 1: my back. And then she did press after that, and
28:52
Speaker 1: she kept in all of her interviews, she kept saying,
28:54
Speaker 1: there's not it's not just me, there's other directors that
28:56
Speaker 1: are right behind me, and she would put me in
28:58
Speaker 1: this and that you know, of of of folks. And
29:02
Speaker 1: I think that's when I started to kind of the
29:04
Speaker 1: light went on for me. And I still think she's
29:07
Speaker 1: doing that, you know, like right now, I'm sure running
29:09
Speaker 1: a series for effects. And so Cheryl Danier, who's you know,
29:13
Speaker 1: an amazing black lesbian filmmaker, is the director producer on
29:18
Speaker 1: Queen Sugar, and Ava's doing it on Queen Sugar. You know,
29:23
Speaker 1: she she only brings women to the table, and I
29:26
Speaker 1: think this season it's it's predominantly women of color that
29:29
Speaker 1: she's giving rise to. And then that way these women
29:33
Speaker 1: can go out and go get more jobs, you know,
29:36
Speaker 1: to keep the lights on in their house and to
29:38
Speaker 1: grow as a director and to to get better at
29:41
Speaker 1: their craft. And I have to say, Chelsea, like I
29:43
Speaker 1: think I totally completely mean this. I feel like you're
29:46
Speaker 1: a person that does that. I feel like you're a
29:48
Speaker 1: giant champion for women. I think for you to let
29:52
Speaker 1: me do this film and to hire me really was
29:56
Speaker 1: a very personal thing for me, because it's you don't
30:01
Speaker 1: get those opportunities all the time, and it's not like
30:05
Speaker 1: I had done five million things on Race. Yeah. Well,
30:07
Speaker 1: I'm glad that we found each other. I'm glad that
30:10
Speaker 1: we met, and I'm glad that we had a good
30:11
Speaker 1: working relationship together. And I mean it was a big
30:14
Speaker 1: learning experience for me. I'm only sad that, you know,
30:17
Speaker 1: you feel like you want to tackle a subject and
30:19
Speaker 1: you just scratch the surface, and you really want to
30:22
Speaker 1: dig into something. Because when I did my original docuseries
30:25
Speaker 1: for Netflix, the Race one was the one that I
30:27
Speaker 1: found most compelling personally and like as a viewer. So
30:31
Speaker 1: I wanted to scratch the surface even further, which we did.
30:34
Speaker 1: But there's just so much to do, and so in
30:37
Speaker 1: so many places and directions to go in it's hard
30:39
Speaker 1: to focus that attention, and the world was happening in
30:42
Speaker 1: real time. And you know, I think that even in
30:46
Speaker 1: the in the span of like when we were making
30:49
Speaker 1: this film, I feel like the United States of America
30:51
Speaker 1: changed so dract i mean, it's still changing so drastically
30:55
Speaker 1: and it's hard to keep up with. I mean, when
30:57
Speaker 1: we were first doing this, I know that we spoke
30:59
Speaker 1: a lot about we did not want to include forty five,
31:01
Speaker 1: you know, in the I don't even like saying his name.
31:04
Speaker 1: I'd like to say to all of my listeners I
31:06
Speaker 1: wanted some acknowledgment for how a few times I've said
31:10
Speaker 1: his name in this podcast. I barely talk about the
31:13
Speaker 1: guy anymore. So I just want you to know that
31:15
Speaker 1: I've been touched and healed. Hallelujah, sister, and we to
31:22
Speaker 1: YouTube Brandon a men sister. Okay, well, this sounds like
31:25
Speaker 1: a good time to take a break. We don't really
31:31
Speaker 1: talk about him at all. I don't even think he's
31:33
Speaker 1: mentioned in the film at one point because he's not
31:35
Speaker 1: the problem. He's not the problems symptom. And I was
31:37
Speaker 1: confused in the beginning that he was the problem. He
31:40
Speaker 1: is not the problem. He was a catalyst. His election
31:42
Speaker 1: was a catalyst for an awakening I think with a
31:45
Speaker 1: lot of white folks, Yes, and that is a good
31:48
Speaker 1: thing if we can get to the next level, which
31:51
Speaker 1: is like he is no different. I mean, he he's
31:54
Speaker 1: just he's a symptom. Exactly what you said. He is
31:56
Speaker 1: no different than you know what this country has faced
32:00
Speaker 1: over and over and over again, dating back to hundreds
32:02
Speaker 1: of years ago. And I think it's missed opportunity to
32:06
Speaker 1: make race conversations in this day and age about and
32:10
Speaker 1: not about real things, you know, real talk, Um, how
32:15
Speaker 1: do we change the laws? And that was another really
32:17
Speaker 1: big thing I think that we forgot to mention, was
32:20
Speaker 1: you know, I think that the challenging part was because
32:22
Speaker 1: this is such a giant topic, where do you how
32:25
Speaker 1: do you like hone it in? Um? And yeah, your
32:28
Speaker 1: personal story, we followed that, but I also think that
32:32
Speaker 1: your work. I think people were will be surprised. Even
32:36
Speaker 1: when we were shooting, I think people were. I saw
32:39
Speaker 1: that for you, it's felt like there was a connection
32:41
Speaker 1: between race and voting because you are so invested with
32:45
Speaker 1: getting people out to go vote, and that seemed like
32:47
Speaker 1: this kind of interesting like intersection, you know, when talking
32:51
Speaker 1: about white privilege, because if you don't vote, if you
32:55
Speaker 1: don't have a SNL and election, you can't change the
32:58
Speaker 1: systemic ways that the government and the laws are hurting
33:02
Speaker 1: you as a community. And I you know, I know
33:05
Speaker 1: it's not like the sexiest subjects, you know, to talk
33:08
Speaker 1: about voter suppression and all of that, But I actually
33:10
Speaker 1: think it's the foundation of UM and it's educational because
33:14
Speaker 1: people some people don't believe that voter suppression is happening,
33:17
Speaker 1: and people don't understand how that how it can happen,
33:20
Speaker 1: or they don't understand what jerrymandering is. All the things
33:22
Speaker 1: that I you know that I learned after the election.
33:25
Speaker 1: You know, so many people UM don't know about and
33:28
Speaker 1: you don't realize that there's a huge lack of education
33:31
Speaker 1: in this country about those things. So voting is the
33:34
Speaker 1: tool that you have to use. It is the only
33:37
Speaker 1: way to have your voice heard, and which is hard
33:39
Speaker 1: for people when they get turned away at voting polls
33:42
Speaker 1: or voting places and told to go somewhere else after
33:45
Speaker 1: they've you know, I remember that story that Oprah told,
33:47
Speaker 1: Remember when she was campaigning for Stacy Abrahams. She was
33:51
Speaker 1: talking about that a man who went to four different
33:54
Speaker 1: voting places and walked and walked, and she said, every
33:57
Speaker 1: time I vote, it's for that man who got turned
33:59
Speaker 1: away from four different places and he'd walk something like,
34:02
Speaker 1: you know, eight miles. No white person will ever walk
34:05
Speaker 1: eight miles to vote. That hasn't happened once. Just like
34:10
Speaker 1: women don't masturbate into plants, white people don't walk to
34:16
Speaker 1: the bulls, and if they do, it's around the corner. Brandon,
34:19
Speaker 1: did you have any follow up questions? I have a
34:21
Speaker 1: lot that I would like to get into it. Because
34:24
Speaker 1: it's you know, alex Is, it's in media. I'm just
34:26
Speaker 1: going to take a quick shower. Um, great, okay, Well,
34:29
Speaker 1: so back to the Little Mermaid. One of the things
34:31
Speaker 1: I want to touch on is that there's a lot
34:33
Speaker 1: of feedback right now of a cartoon character who is
34:37
Speaker 1: white with red hair being recast as an African American girl.
34:40
Speaker 1: So obviously the aesthetic is completely different. And when I
34:44
Speaker 1: first saw the news, my initial reaction, as you know,
34:47
Speaker 1: someone with nostalgia towards The Mermaid my favorite Disney movie
34:50
Speaker 1: is is that she just didn't match what you're conceptualized
34:58
Speaker 1: idea of her should be based on the cartoon. Now,
35:01
Speaker 1: Hallie Bailey looks exactly like the Little Mermaid in African
35:05
Speaker 1: American forms. She's got the lips, the nose, the big eyes,
35:07
Speaker 1: like she looks like a Disney princess. So I had
35:09
Speaker 1: to take a second to think that anyone can play
35:11
Speaker 1: that role. It's a fairy tale. It's a fantasy, and
35:13
Speaker 1: mermaids aren't real, but there's still that like momentary, like
35:17
Speaker 1: it should be a white girl with red hair, even
35:19
Speaker 1: though I know that's wrong. So like what feedback, Like
35:22
Speaker 1: how can we reconcile our ideals of like that certain
35:25
Speaker 1: roles should be played by certain people, or that now
35:27
Speaker 1: they're saying there's a lot of like necessary diversity, that
35:30
Speaker 1: like people are just being put in positions or like
35:34
Speaker 1: roles are being recast just so they're African American or
35:37
Speaker 1: just so they're Asian, or just so their Native American.
35:39
Speaker 1: And I had a friend who said, oh, now I
35:41
Speaker 1: can't get a job because everyone's hiring you know, minorities
35:45
Speaker 1: and women. Right, He's like, and they're not qualified to
35:48
Speaker 1: do these jobs. I'm they're not more qualified than I am.
35:50
Speaker 1: I'm like, yes, but you've had an advantage by being male, right,
35:54
Speaker 1: so now it's time to give it up a little bit.
35:57
Speaker 1: And people don't want to deal with that because again,
36:00
Speaker 1: quality feels like something taken to some people who have
36:03
Speaker 1: had it their whole life. And I feel I mean, yeah,
36:07
Speaker 1: I mean the statistics should still prove that white men
36:11
Speaker 1: are totally okay in the United States of America. Actually
36:13
Speaker 1: in the world, they're they're doing just fine. Um. I
36:17
Speaker 1: think that the that the representation for the Disney Princess
36:23
Speaker 1: is kind of multi pronged because I grew up with
36:28
Speaker 1: with you know, aerial Ariel aeriel uh Ariela, that's where
36:34
Speaker 1: I want to go, but I know that actually it's
36:36
Speaker 1: arial short for Ariela. Oh my god. Um. I grew
36:43
Speaker 1: up with that white princess too, and I think that
36:47
Speaker 1: that's sad that like there's this whole dre of not
36:49
Speaker 1: just instead of celebration, instead of saying yeah great, great
36:53
Speaker 1: black girl gets it, this is awesome. People are like pissed.
36:57
Speaker 1: It's kind of crazy. And if there's like Facebook groups
37:01
Speaker 1: being set up to take her dance, I mean it's nonsense. Um. Well,
37:06
Speaker 1: first of all, no one should be that committed to
37:07
Speaker 1: any any dictionalized character. Sounds like you are as committed
37:11
Speaker 1: as one can be. Well, because in my head, as
37:14
Speaker 1: that six year old kid watching that movie, you have
37:16
Speaker 1: an expectation. But I'm not going to start like I
37:19
Speaker 1: don't give a ship like she First of all, she
37:20
Speaker 1: has an incredible singing like she's going to kill it
37:22
Speaker 1: as a little mermaid, but there was still that momentary like, oh,
37:25
Speaker 1: it should be a white girl with red hair, but
37:27
Speaker 1: you're by you just being honest about that weird kind
37:31
Speaker 1: of shift in your head and being able to vocalize that,
37:33
Speaker 1: and like life goes on and you were able to
37:35
Speaker 1: kind of like reset and go, oh, you know right,
37:38
Speaker 1: like I can't wait. I can't wait to see her
37:40
Speaker 1: in the role. The same way my favorite version of
37:42
Speaker 1: any Disney movie Cinderella with Brandy and Whitney Houston, like
37:46
Speaker 1: I still watch it, like I still will. Smith is Aladdin.
37:50
Speaker 1: I didn't like that, but I didn't like the movie,
37:51
Speaker 1: Like it wasn't because of him, Like I just seem
37:54
Speaker 1: to have missed a lot of nothing, nothing about what
37:57
Speaker 1: you guys. You might as well be speaking North Korean. Um.
38:01
Speaker 1: I think that, uh you know, I think that if
38:04
Speaker 1: you get if it stings for a second, get over it,
38:06
Speaker 1: you know, I mean that would be my what my
38:09
Speaker 1: opinion about two people who are which is actually a
38:12
Speaker 1: very honest, natural reaction. It's a it's a better reaction
38:15
Speaker 1: than to you know, it's almost a more organic reaction
38:19
Speaker 1: than to go yes, that's great. Yeah, I get more
38:22
Speaker 1: worried about the white person that shows me this article
38:25
Speaker 1: and it's like, hey, I just want you to know
38:27
Speaker 1: disease really doing a good job. They've gotten. You know,
38:29
Speaker 1: aerial is now black. Aren't you excited? And they're bringing
38:32
Speaker 1: that to me. I have nothing to do with like
38:33
Speaker 1: the I mean that would actually be more alarming than
38:37
Speaker 1: someone like yourself saying you know, I saw this and
38:39
Speaker 1: I was like kind of like weirded out by my
38:41
Speaker 1: own brain that in my subconscious mind, I was kind
38:43
Speaker 1: of like, well, not adolests and expectation again, like that's
38:46
Speaker 1: what it was. But again, a lot of characters are
38:48
Speaker 1: being repurposed. They're actively trying to incorporate diversity. So what
38:52
Speaker 1: is your take on shows that are doing that, Like
38:53
Speaker 1: a lot of Netflix shows like Every Table has an
38:55
Speaker 1: Asian and African American a native like in a white person,
38:59
Speaker 1: which I think is eight. How does that compare to
39:01
Speaker 1: TV shows like Blackish that it's a predominantly African American cast,
39:05
Speaker 1: Like do you feel like one is better for mainstream
39:09
Speaker 1: exposure than the other, Like seeing an all black family
39:11
Speaker 1: versus like a black kid who's been positioned somewhere. I
39:13
Speaker 1: think you need it all. But the real change that
39:17
Speaker 1: I'm not saying, that I think really needs to happen
39:19
Speaker 1: is like, who are the executives, you know what I mean,
39:21
Speaker 1: who are the people in the boardroom that are green
39:23
Speaker 1: lighting these shows? How how black? How many black executives
39:27
Speaker 1: are are are working at Netflix, or working at Disney,
39:30
Speaker 1: or working at Effects or you know, at these companies
39:32
Speaker 1: that are generating all of this content. That to me
39:35
Speaker 1: is actually fixing the system more so than like, oh,
39:38
Speaker 1: for for a year, we've got like some we're trending
39:41
Speaker 1: right now with like our African American content. I was
39:44
Speaker 1: just reading the New York Times this weekend, had a
39:47
Speaker 1: really good article about black directors from the nineties that
39:51
Speaker 1: got these one off you know, I mean, like I
39:54
Speaker 1: like It, like That, which is one of my favorite
39:55
Speaker 1: movies in high school. I was directed by a black
39:58
Speaker 1: woman Juice, you know, a Tupac Shquar. I mean, all
40:01
Speaker 1: these great movies. Obviously, John Singleton was from that generation,
40:05
Speaker 1: and he went on to have a very fruitful career
40:08
Speaker 1: r I P. But all of these other directors they
40:11
Speaker 1: got one shot and then that was it, and then
40:13
Speaker 1: they were kind of like left in this you know,
40:16
Speaker 1: very white male world to try to survive. And then
40:21
Speaker 1: when Hollywood was like, oh, these are making money, let's
40:23
Speaker 1: order ten thousand of them, it was great. But then
40:26
Speaker 1: for their second films when they made something like The
40:29
Speaker 1: inkwell that didn't do that well, it was like, oh,
40:31
Speaker 1: you're done, you know. And I think that that's what
40:34
Speaker 1: I'm nervous about with this era, with the me too
40:38
Speaker 1: movement and with you know, um, this movement to to
40:41
Speaker 1: put more people of color in roles and even as directors,
40:44
Speaker 1: because that's great, but we really need to see more
40:51
Speaker 1: women and more people of color like working at these companies.
40:56
Speaker 1: You know that, because those are the people that make
40:58
Speaker 1: that continue to make the decision, you know, moving forward well,
41:01
Speaker 1: and it's impactful behind the scenes that there's a certain
41:04
Speaker 1: expectation then where a lot of times, I think you
41:06
Speaker 1: can see it in anything that's being produced, it's a
41:08
Speaker 1: white person making a decision on behalf of a minority,
41:11
Speaker 1: on how the idea of representation should be, not necessarily
41:15
Speaker 1: how it would actually be. And so for a lot
41:17
Speaker 1: of the companies, like the big companies Netflix, Hulu, HBO,
41:22
Speaker 1: they're doing this, I think that there is more of
41:24
Speaker 1: an effort to put out content that is specific to
41:27
Speaker 1: those audiences, but not to make sure that there are
41:31
Speaker 1: people in place to ensure that it's actually right. It's
41:33
Speaker 1: it's gonna it's has staying power, it's going to stay,
41:36
Speaker 1: you know, Like when we were making this the Netflix
41:40
Speaker 1: show Dear White People, I believe that that Netflix canceled
41:44
Speaker 1: the show after two seasons. Yeah, and people went like
41:47
Speaker 1: lost their minds and then the show stayed. And that's great, right,
41:52
Speaker 1: But maybe if there were a couple more black executives
41:55
Speaker 1: at Netflix that could have been communicated without this like
41:58
Speaker 1: you know, like French warfare situation on Twitter, you know,
42:02
Speaker 1: to keep the to keep that film alive, and I mean,
42:04
Speaker 1: excuse me that that TV show alive. And I think
42:08
Speaker 1: you know, when you're especially when you're dealing with content
42:11
Speaker 1: that that is about race. Um, I think that it's
42:13
Speaker 1: important that as a director, I feel like it's actually
42:17
Speaker 1: critical that you have black executives that you can actually
42:20
Speaker 1: have like an unofficial conversation with where they understand the
42:23
Speaker 1: nuances of what's happening, so that you can make a
42:26
Speaker 1: better product. Right, you can speak to more people and
42:30
Speaker 1: when you're trying so there's a lot that gets lost
42:32
Speaker 1: in translation. And this New York Times article about these
42:36
Speaker 1: directors from the nineties, I think that that was something
42:38
Speaker 1: that they faced and then and then you know they
42:41
Speaker 1: their careers didn't have staying power. And that's really that's uh,
42:45
Speaker 1: that ain't cool. But I'm not saying that it is
42:48
Speaker 1: a fad. I just feel like the way we keep it,
42:50
Speaker 1: keep the momentum up is to look at it like
42:53
Speaker 1: as a whole, you know, wholeheartedly. But yeah, there's just
42:57
Speaker 1: got to be more mix up and mash up. Yeah.
43:00
Speaker 1: I think that's a good point though, to not leave
43:02
Speaker 1: it as is, to think of it as a long
43:04
Speaker 1: it's the long game. It's not like you know, filling
43:06
Speaker 1: up a tank. It's actually trying to figure out how
43:09
Speaker 1: you sustain this and and that should be the intention.
43:13
Speaker 1: And that's I mean, that's Hollywood. I mean, I think
43:16
Speaker 1: this business is went for Corman's World. Actually interviewed Jack
43:20
Speaker 1: Nicholson and he was reflecting on his time back in
43:23
Speaker 1: the nineteen sixties and seventies, and he was the one
43:25
Speaker 1: who like taught me this, which was, you know, if
43:29
Speaker 1: something something is successful in Hollywood, like people order literally
43:34
Speaker 1: ten thousand of them, they want the same thing over
43:36
Speaker 1: and over and over again, especially if they can do
43:38
Speaker 1: it cheap or for free. And um, that's just the
43:41
Speaker 1: nature of the beast, that the business that we all
43:43
Speaker 1: work in. And that's fine, but like, let's put some
43:46
Speaker 1: people with Let's let that beast and like the people
43:49
Speaker 1: behind the scenes look a little bit different and be
43:51
Speaker 1: from different worlds because maybe I don't know, the approach
43:54
Speaker 1: will be a little a little bit different and they
43:57
Speaker 1: don't know what's going to strike, what the next thing
43:59
Speaker 1: is that's going to rake. Um, Okay, well this has
44:03
Speaker 1: been very enlightening. I want to thank you Brandon for
44:05
Speaker 1: preparing for the podcasters all your questions and um, he's
44:09
Speaker 1: you're a great interviewer, Brandon, Alex, you're a great director,
44:13
Speaker 1: and Chelsea you're just you. Thank you, Gus, oh, thank
44:17
Speaker 1: you Brandon. Okay, Alex, your turn, Um, Bernice, thank you
44:21
Speaker 1: for being here. She's passed out on the floor and
44:23
Speaker 1: we will see you next week. This has been like
44:26
Speaker 1: will be the Death of Me Life Will be the
44:32
Speaker 1: Death of Me as a production of I Heart Radio.
44:34
Speaker 1: For more podcasts from I Heart Radio, visit the I
44:36
Speaker 1: heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to
44:39
Speaker 1: your favorite shows,