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Injustice for a 17 year old girl: The Sheena Eastburn Story · Nightmare Success In and Out

0:01
What happens when your worst fear becomes your reality?
0:04
Hi, I'm Brent Cassidy, welcome to the Nightmare Success In and
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Out podcast where we explore how to overcome your fears and
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nightmares that set yourself free.
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We're going to be exploring this topic with guys that was in
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Leavenworth with and others who survived their own nightmare.
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These stories can be inspiring, sometimes sad.
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There's some humor, but hopefully you can come away with
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a nugget of something that'll help you knock down some of the
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prisons you built up in your own mind.
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All right. Welcome back, nightmare success,
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In-n-out listeners. This is where you come for what
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It helps the show. Definitely helps the show.
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So who are we talking with today?
0:57
We're talking with Sheena Eastburn.
0:58
And I got to tell you, when I was doing my show prep, I got
1:03
into reading about this case and about an hour and a half later I
1:10
was like, Oh my gosh, I can't believe all of that just
1:13
happened to this lady, Sheena Eastburn.
1:17
And she's out and she's, it's like, I'll take you back a
1:23
little bit, give you some pieces here because we're going to fill
1:26
in the blanks to all this. But at age 17, Sheena was
1:30
prosecuted as an adult, convicted of murder and
1:33
sentenced to life without parole.
1:36
That's a lot right there. She got married at 15.
1:39
She got divorced, I think, at 16.
1:43
The crazy part of this story is that she was kind of seeing her
1:49
ex. She was also seeing another guy.
1:53
There had been this crazy burglary thing that she wasn't
1:57
even aware of, but she said that they needed to take back this
2:00
rifle. And in the meantime, there was
2:04
going to be like some drugs and stuff that they were going to
2:07
take from there when they returned the rifle and she was
2:09
going to distract them. Well, in the meantime, she she
2:11
began kissing her ex and there was a shot fired in the window
2:16
and she's part of it. She's there and she gets
2:21
convicted with the other two guys that she was part of
2:25
showing up at this scene. And the rest of this story is
2:30
something that you see on a Netflix series.
2:32
She there is a there is an event that happens in the jail with a
2:40
the the person who who working at the jail, the police officer
2:44
takes her into a room. There's a rape that's and years
2:46
later this ends up being something in another case that
2:50
she's drawn into. It is absolutely amazing and
2:55
takes your breath away. How are we talking to Sheena
2:58
Eastburn right now? Because she was life without
3:01
parole. There was a, there was a Supreme
3:04
Court ruling that came down and changed the way that sentences
3:10
were for children of an under 18 and there was new evidence that
3:14
was presented in her case. And she was paroled in 2017
3:18
after 25 years in prison. She's now a paralegal at a law
3:22
firm specializing in criminal cases.
3:24
She's also founded 2 nonprofits, Show Me Justice for All and Prep
3:29
for Release, a re entry program. She just does a lot of work also
3:33
into education and, and getting her communications degree.
3:37
She's just busy and she's somebody that I've paid
3:40
attention to with LinkedIn and just things that she's doing.
3:45
And I'm really happy she's made time to to be here today to tell
3:50
this incredible story. And I was just telling her this
3:53
goes into 1100 prisons across the United States.
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And this is going to be something I think that the
3:58
people inside are going to be riveted to because she's made it
4:00
on the outside after this incredible journey.
4:03
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Tell them Brent from nightmare success since you welcome in
4:44
Sheena Eastburn. How are you I'm.
4:47
Good. How are you?
4:48
Sheena and I had a little bit of a a hiccup here before we get
4:51
started because this big Rd. caster pro thing that's got all
4:54
these back switches to it, there was something that wasn't
4:58
plugged in. I couldn't hear Sheena and then
4:59
David came in and saved the day. So here we are.
5:03
We can hear each other. Awesome.
5:06
Finally, finally. So Sheena, I just gave them just
5:11
a piece of this incredible journey that you've been on for
5:17
decades. And I think the best place to
5:21
start with this is to go back to the beginning because I was kind
5:28
of fascinated by the point of like, you know, you were 15
5:32
years old getting married. What was going on in your world
5:37
as a as a little girl and growing up?
5:39
What was all that like? Well, I I was born too addict
5:46
parents. My father was in and out of
5:50
prison, my mother was an addict. Both of them were addicts.
5:53
And I lived with my grandparents which were ministers.
5:56
And in my childhood, tumultuous things happen.
5:59
Sexual abuse from a family member first drug rehab by age
6:05
12 for drinking and smoking weed in that day.
6:09
And so my mother did come back to my life and try to be a mom
6:13
again after she kind of got herself together.
6:16
But after sexual abuse and just having that tumultuous type of
6:20
childhood, I was very angry, upset.
6:23
I was into drugs and alcohol and so it was about two months
6:30
before I got married. I met my to be husband.
6:35
He was the local drug dealer. He was the guy that everybody
6:39
knew and I talked to my mom and they let me get married.
6:42
I said either let me get married or I'll run away from home.
6:44
And what he was like 22 something like that, he.
6:47
He was about to be 21 when? This 21 OK and.
6:50
I only knew him about actually about 45 days, probably maybe
6:56
50. And then we got married and 45
7:02
days or 50 days again. Within the first month was the
7:05
first hit. Within the second month was the
7:08
first rape. I was told it wasn't rape
7:11
because I was his wife and that's what God commanded me to
7:14
do as his wife. And back in 1992 and 1990, I was
7:21
15, no car, there was no cell phones or anything like that.
7:25
I he moved me out into the country.
7:27
I was very isolated in an abusive situation mentally,
7:31
sexually, emotionally and physically.
7:35
Sheena, how did you get out of that age?
7:38
How did you even know about how to go about a divorce?
7:41
I mean, I, I figure somebody that's 15 years old is kind of
7:44
like a freshman in high school as far as that where that is in
7:47
your, in your time in line. How?
7:50
How were you even? How did you even know how to get
7:54
out of that marriage? I didn't know how to get out of
7:57
that marriage. I tried to run away from home
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like teenagers do. And he would just find me.
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He would tell my friends that he would kill them.
8:05
Family members hunt me down. It was always bad when he found
8:08
me. He also, you know, I fight
8:12
against banning child marriage under the age of 18.
8:14
Now in capital, you know, states all around the world.
8:18
I go to capitals to tell my story.
8:20
But The thing is that the laws now are changing.
8:25
But back then at unless you're 18, you cannot get a divorce
8:29
because you can't get a contract with a lawyer unless you're 18.
8:32
I couldn't go to a domestic shelter because I I had to be 18
8:38
and not until my mother walked out and actually seen him
8:41
physically beating me, which people seen the black eyes,
8:44
busted lips things and the, the mindset back then was don't make
8:48
him mad. Be a better wife.
8:50
You know, try to avoid those things, But when you get married
8:55
at that young age, before age 18, you can't enter in any other
8:58
contract. So until my mom walked out that
9:00
day, she finally seen that I needed a restraining order.
9:03
I needed my mother's signature to even get a restraining order.
9:07
And I, I was confused on Sheena because I've got three
9:10
daughters. I the, the, I mean, I guess do
9:14
you, when you get married at the age of 15, do you need the
9:17
approval of your your parents as adults?
9:21
Yeah, you have to have at least one signature.
9:23
My father really didn't want me to get married, so he didn't
9:25
sign. And a lot of people actually use
9:27
this for trafficking now, severing children's rights with
9:31
another parent. But back then, yes, it's same as
9:36
law. I could get married with the
9:38
signature. So you end up splitting out of
9:42
this marriage and you end up getting with someone that you
9:50
haven't been with very long. And and so that evolves into
9:58
something that ends up being this huge nightmare that you
10:02
fall into. Can can you kind of walk us
10:05
through how? Because when I was reading about
10:07
this, I was thinking, Oh my gosh, you know, the, because a
10:10
lot of it was that you were kind of brought along into this with
10:18
these other two guys and they were going to use you.
10:21
I mean, I'll let you fill in the blanks.
10:23
But just what I read, they were going to use you to be a
10:27
basically decoy to go in, talk to Tim, get him to take you on a
10:31
motorcycle ride so they could go in and burglarize his place and
10:34
return. You had told him to return the
10:36
rifle because it had a serial number on it and it could get
10:38
everybody in trouble. But it ends up raining.
10:43
And so you, you are in this place and like I said at the
10:51
beginning, there's you guys begin to kiss and then the the
10:55
event happens where he gets shot through the window.
10:58
Can you take us back a little bit before you ever get there to
11:01
that place? What?
11:04
What was what were you thinking was happening?
11:10
Well, I have to back up a little bit about 3 weeks before.
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Please do. Yeah, tell it how you would tell
11:15
it. I did get, I did.
11:17
We did finally get divorced, but he still wouldn't let me go.
11:20
I mean, the restraining order didn't help.
11:22
He still followed me, stalked me, used money because I here I
11:26
was still barely 17. So he still utilized all these
11:32
tools to keep me. And he was a drug dealer and I
11:35
was an addict, right. So about 3 weeks prior to that,
11:39
Tim kidnapped me. And when he did, he took me to a
11:42
wooded area. Now you have to back up a little
11:44
more further because when I ran away from him before, the cops
11:47
returned me right back to him because he was my heart.
11:50
So three weeks prior to this, right after the divorce, he
11:54
kidnaps me. He takes me to a wooded area
11:56
with a shallow grave, puts a gun in my head, says I could kill
11:59
you and everybody would think you just ran away.
12:02
Wow. So I think that fear that that
12:05
started the subconscious fear that just started when I, I
12:09
thought about all these years, like what really kicked that
12:12
off? I would say that was the pivotal
12:14
point in my life that everything started to move.
12:18
So I met these guys, they, they, I tell them about my life.
12:23
You know the guy, Terry, I tell him about my life and what I've
12:27
been through. And so Tim would still call,
12:31
still drop by, always telling me that I'm coming home, I'm going
12:36
to remarry him whether I want to or not.
12:37
Nobody can make me stay away from my wife.
12:40
You know that stalker crazy stuff.
12:43
So I'm just trying to go back here.
12:48
So they robbed his house and they did steal a gun, and I had
12:53
no knowledge of this because they knew he was a drug dealer.
12:57
So I think they were looking for more of the drugs.
13:01
And I was fearful because at one point I had taken all his guns
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because he had threatened me so much.
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And I, I tried to give them away.
13:08
I tried to get rid of them. And that ended very bad for me.
13:13
That was one of the worst beatings I probably had.
13:16
So my fear immediately went to, Oh my God, he's going to find
13:19
out. You are my friends.
13:20
You stole his gun, he's going to kill me.
13:24
So it started out pretty much that.
13:27
You were living in fear, basically, of your life, Yeah.
13:30
Yeah, because I had almost died a couple times.
13:32
I mean, it's not like I wasn't near death a couple times being
13:36
choked out or you know, those situations caused he caused 2
13:42
miscarriages beating me. So I mean, this was a guy who's
13:45
not a nice guy. So one of the guys just and
13:50
this, this is probably the story that you don't get that never
13:53
gets to the media because media doesn't give it you all right.
13:56
They said, I wonder what it feel like to kill somebody.
13:59
It was just that simple statement.
14:00
We're high, we're drunk. And I said, well, I know
14:03
somebody. And it's that's how the
14:05
conversation started. Now at 17 and they're 18 and 19.
14:10
You don't really think that's going to happen.
14:12
It's kids talking. But I still have this fear.
14:16
So we ended up going down to his house and like you said,
14:21
everything was weird. It was strange.
14:23
I was trying to get him out the house at the same time.
14:26
Honestly, I think my subconscious was like, this is
14:29
my freedom. Terry did shooting.
14:33
I did try to save him. There was nothing I could do.
14:38
It was very traumatic at 17 to watch this happen.
14:44
Terry pulled me out of the house.
14:45
Next thing we're running and and then Tim died and a couple days
14:51
later the police got a hold of us.
14:53
Well, I told my mother that I was there and I watched what
14:56
happened because I was freaking out and she actually called the
14:58
police on me and, and next thing I know I'm at the Sheriff's
15:03
Office answering questions. Wow, and you're and again,
15:08
you're just a teenager and and you've gone through all this.
15:10
What what at that time is going through your mind is a teenager
15:14
who's just gone through all this.
15:15
I'm sure you're, you know, the trauma and the stress and the,
15:18
and then you're, you're being interrogated by police officers.
15:25
What? How did you handle that?
15:29
I was very high when they questioned me.
15:31
Like I don't even remember the interrogation.
15:35
I think I told so many stories. I was just, I was really high.
15:40
I was scared and I never really talked about the abuse when they
15:46
questioned me. And then when I got arrested, I
15:50
went to jail and my lawyer at the time said we're you're not
15:54
good. We're not going to bring up the
15:55
abusive motive. And I was like, but this is the
15:59
reason it all happened. So I was never allowed to bring
16:03
the abuse out. They made it about a robbery,
16:05
drugs, the gun, and never was I allowed to bring the abuse out.
16:11
And not until wait, you know, since I've came home or like
16:16
right before I got out, was I able to really even start
16:18
talking about the abuse. Because part of me also because
16:22
I was told never talk bad about the victim that was embedded in
16:25
me in jail because he's not here to defend his self.
16:30
And so it and I was angry. I was still angry at 17.
16:35
I was facing the death penalty. I wasn't old enough to get
16:38
divorced, sign a contract, but yet I was old enough to be tried
16:42
as an adult and facing the death penalty at one point.
16:45
And I didn't understand the justice system.
16:49
I didn't understand what was happening to me.
16:51
I didn't understand, you know, the victim's father actually
16:55
stood by me during my whole trial, apologized to me.
17:00
And he actually was the only reason we didn't get the death
17:02
penalty, because he took it off the table.
17:05
And he actually asked them to give me a plea bargain, but they
17:07
didn't because. There would be Tim's dad.
17:10
Yes. And if I remember reading, your
17:14
mom worked for them through all these years, right?
17:20
Through the trial and everything, yeah.
17:23
The whole thing they. Knew what they knew, what kind
17:25
of life I lived for almost 2 years with their son.
17:28
So I think that part of them, the father anyway, felt somewhat
17:34
responsible and some of that because I asked him for help on
17:38
a numerous occasions. So when you went through getting
17:42
put into jail, there was all this strange weirdness where
17:47
they were the the the sheriff was talking about you were
17:50
costing money and more or less that this is some kind of big
17:54
hassle for them. But then something happens in
17:57
the jail when you're you're the only person who's being jailed
18:01
in the jail. And this man, I think his name
18:07
was Zorns, ends up taking you into a supply closet and does
18:18
something with the the tape on the and they can tell by the
18:25
clock on the wall that it's been messed with so that he could
18:29
delete the time that you could see going to and from Sheena.
18:35
What in the world were you? What was going through your mind
18:38
in that whole fiasco? Well, yeah, he came in my cell
18:42
on more than one occasion. And I finally told my mom.
18:47
I said one of the officers, he was a jailer.
18:49
I was coming in my cell, and she said for what?
18:52
And I said, he's raping me. And she flipped out and got a
18:56
hold of sheriff. And of course, it became a big
18:59
deal. Within 24 hours, I was taken to
19:03
a doctor's office where they gave me a pill.
19:07
I was asleep later on that night and there is record of this.
19:10
Later that night, I woke up and I was in the emergency room from
19:13
hemorrhaging and they told my mother that they had tried to
19:17
give me abortion, but I wasn't even pregnant.
19:20
So this Backwood doctor's office, at the same time that
19:26
trip happened, the officers kept telling me you wanted this, this
19:31
is your fault. The sheriff kept saying it was
19:32
consensual, which I don't know how in the world he would have
19:34
ever have known that. This is a teenager, this is a
19:37
person who's working at the jail.
19:39
How in the world could he discern discern that it was a
19:42
consensual situation regardless? Yeah.
19:45
And I'm not sure how anything like that could be consensual,
19:47
be being someone that's being jailed and they have all the
19:52
authority and the ability to make you do more or less
19:56
whatever is going on in the jail.
19:58
Well, the first time that he came in my cell, he brought some
20:00
drugs in. And so of course being a drug
20:02
addict, you know, and then he was just, he was a jailer.
20:07
He didn't want to be a jailer. He wanted to be on the road.
20:09
So what happened was they had video of him coming in my cell
20:13
because what happened in my cell and it happened in the property
20:15
closet and I gave them all a debit.
20:18
I wrote a diary. I kept diary of it.
20:20
They had underwear with his DNA. They had mattress, they had my
20:24
clothes. But all of a sudden, all that
20:27
came up missing and I was the prosecutor told the sheriff at
20:32
the time, make it go away and do not F up my murder case.
20:36
They knew it could create an issue with the case.
20:39
So the prosecutor, Joe Schulberg, Tim Perrigo, my
20:44
lawyer, Dwayne Cooper, another lawyer, they all covered it up.
20:48
They all knew what happened to me.
20:50
Actually, it was Tim's father who came to the jail and said
20:53
she may be here for murder, but she's not your personal whore.
20:56
I read that. And he stood up for me.
21:00
And so it was probably they locked me down.
21:04
They wouldn't let me have phone calls, they wouldn't let me have
21:07
visits. They shut everything down.
21:09
And then while I was in prison 17 years later, I got a call
21:13
from a detective that said we need your help.
21:16
We know you were raped and. And all that that evidence she
21:21
was using in that which by the way, you you helped in that
21:26
case. But for him, he was convicted
21:31
for the 14 year old. But in the in the deal, they
21:35
were allowed to drop the charges on what your situation was,
21:40
which I found flabbergasting that that happened.
21:43
They asked me if they could charge him with two counts of
21:45
forcible rape and then utilized that to get him to plea bargain
21:49
to the 14 year old so the 14 year old didn't have to go to
21:52
court. And as a teenager going through
21:54
a court system like that. You felt for her.
21:56
I absolutely if that saved that 14 year Old Firm having to get
21:59
on the stand and testify. So he did take two counts of
22:02
forcible rape. He did four months in prison and
22:05
they dropped it for yeah, but he's now a registered sex
22:08
offender. So because when all that
22:10
happened, they promoted him and punished me.
22:13
They gave him that road job he wanted.
22:15
So he now he was officer on the road pulling people over.
22:19
It's just it takes your breath away.
22:22
The next step in this is that you you end up How long were you
22:26
in jail before you went to trial?
22:29
Two years and nine months. Two years and nine months in
22:31
jail before you ever went to trial.
22:33
Can you tell us a little bit about the trial?
22:37
That's kind of a blur. But from reading transcripts,
22:41
because really it was a blur to me, I was on medication and you
22:44
know, the jail did give me medication.
22:45
Between the trauma of my life, jail and then the rapes, I
22:51
pretty much was highly medicated.
22:55
I remember going through the trial and they had one guy that
22:58
testified against us that said we planned it and that was
23:01
basically it. And I.
23:02
Remember that guy he was, he got off because by saying that he
23:07
got off on some things on a plea deal.
23:09
Charges and other terms pending. Not uncommon.
23:14
No. And during the trial, they were
23:17
going to call a lot of my family to the stand.
23:20
And one of them was my grandpa, who to me was everything in my
23:23
life. And the prosecutor came with, if
23:26
you will get on the stand, we won't question your family.
23:29
So he knew once he got me on that stand that I probably was.
23:34
And plus they had a my little public defender who got my case
23:39
two weeks. The new public defender got my
23:41
case two weeks before my trial. They brought in the gladiator
23:45
from the attorney general's office, the big dogs from
23:48
Jefferson City, and prosecuted me so.
23:52
That guy was later interviewed saying he was way above his
23:55
head. Yeah, yeah.
23:57
And so that other lawyer too, he eventually got on the stand and
24:00
said I did not defend her because I got her trial two
24:03
weeks beforehand. She did not have my best.
24:06
And so I have always preached, appreciate Frank for doing that.
24:11
But during the trial, I had two jury members.
24:13
One was all on the top. The top two jury members said I
24:19
was guilty to approve my innocence and they sat on my
24:21
jury. So I was already guilty before
24:24
it even began. I was the top news in McDonald
24:27
County. Everybody knew the case.
24:30
It was such a small town that when they did the jury poll, his
24:32
brother was one of the people on there.
24:34
And I was like, we might want to strike him.
24:36
And I mean, his last name was the same.
24:38
He was his brother. But that's how small a town it
24:40
was that they were taking a jury pole from.
24:42
So everybody had already made-up their mind that I was guilty.
24:46
None of the abuse was allowed out.
24:50
And did I deserve time? Absolutely.
24:55
But life without parole was kind of or the death penalty was a
24:58
little much. So she know how how does one put
25:05
their mind around that? Going to trial, being in jail
25:09
for two years and then being told that you have been
25:14
convicted of murder and you're going to serve out the rest of
25:18
your life without parole. Like what what happens?
25:24
What happens in your thinking with that?
25:27
Really, when you're a teenager like that and somebody says life
25:29
without parole, I was actually sentenced to death by
25:32
incarceration, your mind cannot comprehend it.
25:37
Even when I went to prison, you know, I went to the adult
25:40
prison, I still in some way thought I still could come home.
25:44
OK, so you hadn't lost hope? No, and most people don't
25:48
realize that what life without parole really means.
25:52
I mean, as a teenager I could not comprehend what that meant.
25:56
I remember going into prison and somebody said, little girl, you
26:00
better get in that law library because you're the only one
26:02
that's going to be able to fight this.
26:04
And that's where I spent most of my time was in that law library,
26:09
researching, learning, and eventually called Johnnie
26:13
Cochran later on in jail, 'cause that's what I did.
26:16
I learned the law, but still in all that time I just, I was very
26:22
angry my first ten years. I was a heathen in prison.
26:25
I didn't follow the rules, insulting behaviors, organized
26:29
disobedience, just getting in trouble a lot, fighting, things
26:33
like that. Well, let's talk about that.
26:35
And in fact, let's take a break here because I want to talk
26:37
about that time period of you going in and having to readjust
26:40
into that new world. Obviously, I can't even
26:43
identify. I, I, I went to Leavenworth for
26:46
five years sentence. And I know that that time period
26:48
when you get in there, that, that whole shock of the unknown
26:52
world, but you'd already been in for two years in a jail.
26:54
So that, that's, that's a, that's a very bad place.
26:57
So, but I want to, I want to get when we get back, I want to talk
27:00
about how that entry went and how you, who you met up with and
27:05
how you started surviving in there.
27:07
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Nightmare Success. And I want to recognize that
27:55
Nightmare Success is sponsored by the White Collar Support
27:57
Group, the world's first support group devoted to people
27:59
navigating the white collar criminal justice system.
28:02
I'm a member of the White Collar Support Group, and I can tell
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28:16
Go to prisoners.org. That's prisoners.org.
28:18
Start here. So Sheena, even though you
28:22
haven't got it wrapped around your, you know how to deal with
28:25
this is life without parole. It's basically you're going to
28:29
be in prison for the rest of your life.
28:31
You go into a maximum security prison as a teenager.
28:36
Walk us through that. What was that like?
28:39
How did you how did you adapt and survive in a world that you
28:43
had to learn to live in? Well, of course, first call was
28:46
to Mom. Please Get Me Out of here.
28:48
Please. Please.
28:51
But strangely enough, when I walked in prison, it was the
28:53
first time I fought free in my life.
28:55
That's interesting. That's deep.
28:58
And why? Well, no more sexual abuse, no
29:03
more being beat, no more being raped, you know, 'cause of
29:08
course I didn't watch Cellblock H as a child, so I didn't know
29:11
about all the other stuff. So, but for the first time, and
29:16
plus being a county jail, two years, nine months, no sun, no
29:19
outside. I finally could go out on the
29:20
yard. I can make friends.
29:23
I could see my family, call my family because McDonald County
29:27
Jail was awful. Yeah, it's rock bottom.
29:31
They and they were terrible. So I got to play basketball
29:35
again, volleyball. I got to play softball, you
29:37
know, so all sudden I had this new found freedom that was that
29:42
I never knew in my life before because of my childhood terrible
29:46
marriage and in jail. But when I first came in, I
29:51
heard, Hey, white girl was on my bed crying, holding my Bible.
29:55
And in this, I mean, she's like 6, two big old black lady.
30:00
And she's like, it's all right, Steve's here.
30:03
And I thought, Oh my God, this is awful.
30:05
I'm already going to be somebody's baby, you know, But
30:09
it wasn't. She actually took me under her
30:12
wing and she said, you have a lot of time.
30:14
And I'm and she's the one that said, go law library.
30:16
I'm going to teach you how to hustle.
30:18
And I'm not going to. I have a daughter your age and
30:20
I'm not going to. I think that was my praying
30:22
grandparents, you know, God put something in safety over me.
30:27
I just got really lucky. And so she taught me how to
30:29
jail. She was OG back in 92 when we
30:33
went to prison. It wasn't it was a different
30:35
type of breed of women that when you went these were like true
30:38
gang bangers, true, you know, O GS, they were the real O GS that
30:43
that was in prison. And so that's I got really lucky
30:49
and I had a problem with authority, of course, because of
30:53
the rape. So anytime an officer would try,
30:55
especially males, I would end up with insulting behaviors or
30:58
refusing to let them search me or you know, things like that.
31:02
Of course, your first fight is always a big deal.
31:06
I had that, I was tested and so I had to fight and it 10 years
31:11
later though, so throughout being angry, upset, all these
31:15
things. They had a class called Impact
31:17
of Victims of Crime. So you're saying you've had a
31:19
really rocky 10 years of of getting into that world that you
31:25
knew you were going to have to survive in and well.
31:27
Life without parole? What were they going to do?
31:29
Take my date? Right.
31:30
No, I mean you had nothing to lose.
31:32
No. And so I didn't care about their
31:35
officers. I didn't care about going the
31:36
whole bring me my food and milk. Thanks.
31:39
You know, so, so after it was about 10 years, 2004, so almost
31:46
10 years, they had a class impacted victims of crime.
31:49
And this is where my life changed.
31:51
OK, So a victim came in and shared her story about her
31:55
husband being murdered. But it wasn't that.
31:57
It was the fact of all the emotions that she went through
32:00
and all the things she went through.
32:02
And I wasn't really thinking about Tim as the victim for a
32:05
long time, but his mother, his father, his brothers, his
32:09
sister, my community, my family. For the first time I was able to
32:13
see that it wasn't about me. The choices I made impacted
32:18
array of people. And seeing that woman talk to
32:23
me, that victim, changed the trajectory of my life in prison.
32:28
She sharing her story, her pain. I seen my mother-in-law what it
32:33
was like to bury her son, and it didn't.
32:36
You know, do I wish I would have made different choices?
32:39
Do I wish he was here and he could have became a different
32:41
person too? Hopefully yes.
32:44
But at that time of my life, I didn't think those things true.
32:47
At 17, you're not thinking longevity, you're not thinking
32:51
consequences. You're not thinking of those
32:53
things. You are just thinking, I don't
32:55
want to hurt no more. I don't want to be hurt no more.
32:58
I want to be free and I don't want to die.
33:01
And so that was when that year I became AICVC facilitator myself.
33:06
And then I just started taking classes, anger management, which
33:10
I got kicked out the first time for being angry, but I took it
33:12
out. You got kicked out of anger
33:14
management from being angry. I did, I did.
33:18
I was always known for like organizing things like, so I've
33:22
always been an advocate for the people inside myself later on
33:26
life. And I found myself in there in
33:30
abusive relationships too. You know what I'm saying?
33:32
So I had to learn to start to take care of better, better
33:38
myself to find the route. And so I did five years tipsy
33:42
therapy with the therapist. I took all these classes, became
33:46
facilitator. If I learned it, I taught it.
33:49
And puppies for Parole was a huge change for me because I had
33:53
became so numb to things that learning to train an animal and
33:59
live for something breathing and caring and needed me taught me
34:03
unconditional love again that, well, actually I'd never known.
34:06
And so. So you train the dogs in prison.
34:11
How long would you have the dogs to train?
34:14
We had, we had them for six weeks to up to two months, you
34:19
know, three months. But I became a master trainer.
34:22
So I was the trainer who trained other people to train dogs.
34:25
Now you would not know that by my three pities today all the
34:29
time. I can't believe your dogs act
34:30
like that, but they're my babies.
34:33
I totally understand my dogs are not trained at all but I love
34:38
them to death. So well and I just spent time
34:41
still doing laws that we cost jailhouse lawyers and I I
34:47
finally realized I was going to come the best version of me even
34:50
if that was my life because I could help somebody else not
34:54
come back to prison. Maybe I can help somebody else
34:57
get out of abuse and learn at domestic violence only led to
35:01
worst stains your own murder or somebody else's murder.
35:04
And so I started just and then of course, I gave my life to
35:10
God. I was real big, you know, about
35:14
not jailhouse religion and all. I was very against all that
35:18
stuff. I was very angry with God for a
35:20
long time. And then I just I just started
35:25
doing the things I needed to do for myself.
35:29
And in 2012, Miller versus Alabama came along.
35:32
I was sitting in my bed and somebody said, did you see the
35:34
ticker? And I'm like, what?
35:35
They're like. They said juveniles can't have
35:37
life without parole anymore. And I was like it.
35:39
Was huge. I've had so many people on the
35:41
show that that affected their life.
35:44
Yeah. And but still in my mind, I'm
35:46
like, OK, well, we'll see because throughout appeals, you
35:51
know, trying to find any loophole I could, any of those
35:54
things. So yeah, that came across.
35:58
And then I had an attorney at that time, Kent Gibson, amazing
36:02
guy out of Kansas City. How did you find him?
36:06
One one of a guy that was helping me actually got retained
36:11
him at first and then Kent ended up staying on my case.
36:15
I think he just felt like he needed to help me.
36:19
And so he's actually one of the attorneys that I kind of work
36:23
under now. And he just he just believed in
36:27
me. He believed, you know, in my
36:29
life and that something else needed to change.
36:32
And so 2012 came along so that that same time, which is crazy
36:38
enough to take her time, about a month later, here comes the
36:42
detective with all the videotapes of the rape and say,
36:45
and so the prosecutor, Tom, says, we want to help you if
36:47
you'll help us. And so I was like, OK, I mean,
36:51
you don't have to help me. I'm still, you know, I want this
36:53
guy to pay for what he did. And then I found out the sheriff
36:58
had the videotape in his house, all the evidence in his house
37:00
this whole time. And so at that time, they take
37:05
me back to court, they give me a plea bargain of life with
37:08
parole. So this 2000, end of 2012, maybe
37:12
begin 2013, I was gearing to sign the paperwork.
37:14
And the last moment, this guy, John Pierce, rips the paper and
37:18
says, no, we're not doing it. So now this is after I've agreed
37:21
to all the rape stuff. I've helped them do all this to
37:24
get this guy convicted. And this happens in the justice
37:27
system a lot for a lot of people.
37:29
They make you promises and then don't.
37:34
So back to prison I went, was still with life without parole.
37:37
And in 2015 my lawyer calls me and says, hey, the prosecutor,
37:42
McDonald County, a judge and two of us lawyers have found an
37:47
agreement for 30 years second degree murder, which you should
37:49
have been charged with the first time.
37:51
The reason that happened was the arresting officer, the sheriff
37:54
at the time that arrested me, not the one that allowed the
37:57
rape to go. He retired after he arrested me
38:00
like few months later. He was my biggest supporter,
38:04
Luke Keeling, and he said I should have never arrested you
38:06
for first degree murder, should always second degree.
38:09
And so he was one of my biggest advocates.
38:11
And so they all agreed 30 years, second degree murder and in 2015
38:17
went to the parole board. 2017 I came home.
38:20
Wow, that's a lot to unpack right there, Sheena.
38:22
So I mean, wow, I can't, you know, one of the things you said
38:30
early on is you never lost hope and you stayed in the law
38:33
library. You were connected to all these
38:36
different people, Johnny Cochran and and the attorney out of
38:39
Kansas City, which I think is a big, you know, not to, we
38:43
shouldn't just gloss over that because I, I truly believe
38:47
there's two ways to go. When really bad things happen,
38:49
when you, when you enter into a nightmare, you can lose all hope
38:54
and just roll over and basically become a victim and and more or
38:58
less die to be alive. And the other is to be a
39:01
survivor and, and figure things out as, as hope lets you figure
39:07
things out because you have to take action with that, with
39:09
being a survivor and keep walking through.
39:12
And I think that's the, the, the, when I read over your whole
39:15
story, that's what I think is so like gripping is that you had so
39:21
many things that you could have just rolled over it and been in
39:25
a corner and, and, and just gone away.
39:29
All the things that happened in the jail and, and just just so
39:32
many different things. People saying that they were
39:33
going to do something and they didn't do it.
39:35
And people in in the authority that were awful, but you never
39:39
gave up in that. And so when you finally find out
39:44
after all this time, I mean, this is 2 decades and you, you
39:51
hear that you're going to be released.
39:54
What goes through someone's mind on a day like that?
40:07
There we go. OK, All right.
40:10
If you froze on me, I don't know what.
40:11
Happened. Maybe it was my Internet, but
40:13
what, what? What goes through when you,
40:15
after two decades in time and and after all this, not giving
40:22
up, and then they tell you that you're gonna get out?
40:24
What goes through someone's mind on a day like that?
40:29
Unbelievable. So even though 'cause they
40:33
ripped it out in 2012 and even though I had this and I got a
40:36
new face sheet, I have seen the IPO, I still, I still in my
40:41
heart was like, not until I'm walking out and they close the
40:44
gate behind me do I believe that they freed me.
40:47
Because too many times when people are in prison, we get our
40:50
hopes up and then they get snatched away from us.
40:53
And that happened many, many times for me.
40:56
Every time I had an appeal and you know, OK, we're going to do
41:00
this and this, I would get those hopes up.
41:03
And there were times I was hopeless.
41:04
I it's not that I never lost hope that when I got hopeless it
41:09
put a fire in me to fight more so it was surreal.
41:16
But the day came, they stuck. They tried to give me 120 day
41:19
treatment, told me I could get out a few months early if I took
41:21
their treatment. And I knew that was about money.
41:24
We all know whatever one I never had a dirty even though I did
41:28
back in the day maybe, but I never had a dirty urine.
41:30
They never had me with drugs, any of those things.
41:33
Rumors of me making hooch back in the day, but for years I
41:37
hadn't done that. So I knew it was a paycheck
41:40
thing. So I was like, screw your three
41:42
months, I'll do my the rest of the time.
41:44
So I did 25 years to the day they let me out.
41:49
And when that gate closed behind me, I remember that one of the
41:52
officers, when lieutenants actually said, Eastburn, the
41:55
only way you'll go home is a pine box.
41:57
And so sometimes we can request who we wanted to walk us out of
42:00
prison. And I had requested that
42:02
Lieutenant. And when I turned around and I
42:04
said, how's that for a prime boxer?
42:06
And got in the car, My mom and I are and my cousin are driving
42:10
down. There's a stoplight right
42:12
outside the prison. And I thought I had been on
42:14
outcounts. So I said, if I ever stop here
42:16
and the news is following us, everybody's behind us.
42:19
I jump out of the car and I start just running around the
42:20
car. I'm free.
42:21
I'm free. I'm free.
42:23
That is the moment that it hit me that when I was running
42:25
around that car, I wasn't black box, I wasn't shackled, I wasn't
42:29
cuffed. I didn't have these people
42:31
around me guarding me and life began differently.
42:38
But now it's a whole new set of problems because I've been
42:41
locked up 25 years and re entry. Post incarceration.
42:46
Syndrome is true, it's a real thing for us, especially been
42:50
locked up since teenagers. It's a difficult situation.
42:54
How'd you start stepping through it?
42:55
Because I know reentry's tough all the way around, but for
42:59
somebody who's been around 25 years, how did you, what did you
43:03
start doing through your getting back into society?
43:08
1st, I tried to just get to know my family a little bit.
43:11
I hadn't been around them in 25 years.
43:12
So when you're in prison with this kind of sentence, you
43:15
either shut people off for the most part because you can't live
43:19
in there and out here it's too hard.
43:22
So I had cut most of my family off.
43:24
And when I came home, I remember that I was being surrounded.
43:27
All these people are like, I love you, I miss you.
43:29
And I hadn't talked to these people into it.
43:30
And some of them I hadn't even met yet and immediately
43:34
overwhelmed, felt like my family that was true to me and I loved
43:40
for my sisters, my aunties, my mom, my these people I created
43:44
in prison as a prison family. And I was just overwhelmed.
43:48
I cried survivor's guilt. There were people who had
43:51
mentored me and helped me that were still there and I was free.
43:55
So it was a lot to really process.
43:58
Couldn't get a job at Burger King all the listed jobs they
44:02
gave me. So I actually had to go all the
44:04
way to the state of Arkansas. I drew an hour and a half to
44:08
even get a job and I had to drive an hour and a half back
44:10
and forth to work every day. And I just felt like if this is
44:17
freedom, I don't want it. I mean, honestly, this, this was
44:22
you think about when all I want to do is get home, but people
44:25
don't think about when you do come home.
44:28
The the insecurities, the survivor's guilt, the imposter
44:31
syndrome, all these things come along with it.
44:33
My mom is still trying to treat me like I was 17.
44:36
Who you texting? Where you going?
44:37
What are you doing? I'm like, stop asking me these
44:40
things like I'm not in jail no more.
44:43
So it it becomes overwhelming to the point that I wanted to take
44:48
my own life. I thought, I'm going to drive
44:50
myself into a semi. I'm not going back to prison.
44:53
And this is just honest. This is how this post
44:54
incarceration syndrome affected me.
44:57
And it was Jelly Roll, a song from Jelly Roll and Struggle
45:01
Jennings that came on glitter. Not all it glitter is gold.
45:05
And Struggle Jennings in the line said something like, it's
45:09
harder to come home than it was to go in.
45:11
You don't understand that statement unless you've been
45:13
where I've been. And I pulled my car over on the
45:16
side of the road and I was like, wow, OK, I'm not alone.
45:20
Because until then, everybody always acts like they're happy
45:23
people. Oh, you're so blessed.
45:25
You're home. You're so nobody really takes
45:27
in. There's 1000 things going on in
45:30
your mind. The, the change the process
45:34
because my mom took me to Walmart, you know, and somebody
45:37
bumped into me and I turned around.
45:38
I was like, what's up? My mom's like, whoa, whoa.
45:41
And I was like, where I come from, we don't bump into each
45:43
other like that and not say anything or, you know, that's,
45:46
that's targeting me. And so you have to learn to live
45:50
out here to these new rules. People are disrespectful.
45:54
They're, they're ignorant. And you have to remember that,
45:58
you know, you can't just punch him in the face like you do in
46:00
prison. It's not as primitive I.
46:03
Said no, so you might go back to jail and so you just have to
46:08
learn to live again. So post incarceration is real.
46:12
So I met a guy, I didn't meet a guy and he did 2 tours in Iraq.
46:19
And if it wouldn't have been for him, Tyler understood.
46:23
I had PTSD, and he's like, you have PTSD.
46:27
He had been back for, you know, he was in the Iraq war.
46:29
So he'd been out of the Army for a while.
46:32
And he just helped me navigate that.
46:34
Breathe. This is what we can do.
46:35
You need to go to counseling. You need it, you know?
46:38
So I'm always thankful and grateful to him who I'm marrying
46:43
this year. That's awesome.
46:45
Advice that you know, he kept me breathing.
46:49
Really. So is that how you started
46:52
stepping in to the paralegal and, and, and becoming an
46:57
advocate and creating the nonprofits?
46:58
You just started getting your confidence and and stepping and
47:02
connecting dots. Well, I I didn't really know
47:06
what to do. I was running a gym for a while
47:09
because I was personal trainer, nutritionist the whole time I
47:11
was running a gym in Arkansas. And so I was sitting there one
47:19
day I said prison did not break me.
47:21
It is not going to break me. And so I started a Facebook
47:24
group called Prison Did Not Break Me.
47:27
And also, and I found out all these other people were going
47:30
through the same things. I was people I was in jail with,
47:32
people I've never met. And so at first, I started that
47:36
as a nonprofit. And then one day I went to the
47:38
Capitol. I was like, I'm in because
47:40
somebody said something about talk to a legislator.
47:42
So I went to Capitol. It happened to be a day of
47:44
empathy. Dream.org does this thing all
47:47
the day of empathy, and that's when you lobby.
47:49
Well, I walked in and I seen these people had all been
47:52
incarcerated, talking to these legislators, senators.
47:55
They're like, you should go to our cohort.
47:57
So they invited me. Dream.org invited me to their
47:59
justice cohort and I learned how to organize out here, how to
48:04
advocate out here. That's what I love about
48:06
dream.org. I, I had Candia Milton on the
48:09
show and, and he's the policy director for dream.org and they
48:13
do so many good things. And you know, Candia Milton,
48:18
another guy that completely remade himself after, you know,
48:22
being in politics and going to prison and coming back and, and
48:26
being in Washington, DC now making real change.
48:28
But I love what they do with that Sheena, because they show
48:31
people, teach people how to do what you're doing now.
48:35
Yeah, and they did teach me. And they taught me, you know,
48:37
how to have the conversations, how to tell my story in the most
48:40
productive way, how to organize my community.
48:45
And then I got hired. There's a group, it's called
48:49
National Leadership Council to End Life without Parole.
48:52
There's fourteen of us, and we work under Human Rights Watch.
48:56
And so about that time, I got hired to work 10 hours a month.
49:00
That's been four years ago now and we're doing a lot of work as
49:04
well. And like I said, everybody on
49:07
there is been incarcerated. They had life without parole.
49:10
We're all home. I became a member of
49:13
incarcerated Children's Advocacy Network, which is campaign
49:15
affairs sentence and abuse. And I just all these people
49:19
started, I started learning from them, watching what they were
49:22
doing. And so I was like, I'm just
49:25
going to, you know, after dream.org like really invested
49:28
in me and did that. I started I started a advocating
49:33
at the Capitol and the next thing I know Candia has me in
49:35
Washington DC talking on the federal level as well.
49:40
But there's Michelle Smith, who is she is Missouri Justice
49:45
Coalition, who also runs my shirt today abolished.
49:48
I like that. Missouri abolished the death
49:50
penalty. And she had me working with her.
49:55
And she, she's just, she's been in federal state prison and she
49:59
came home and she, I call her my, my Mama org, my org Mama.
50:04
And so she just is really taking me.
50:06
We worked on the Marcellus Williams advocacy together.
50:10
And I just during that moment, I really learned a lot from her
50:13
too. But she's just kind of put me
50:15
under her wing. And and so now in Missouri,
50:18
we're starting to get these organizations going that hadn't
50:21
been there for years. It's, it's I, I love everything
50:26
about what you just said, Sheena, because you, you walked
50:31
us through the, you know, the, the, the rock bottom of getting
50:35
out. You know, you were going to take
50:36
your life. A song from Jelly rolls wakes
50:41
you up. And again, like you said, when
50:44
you hit the, these, these moments of despair, you, you
50:48
fight your way out of it. And now what you're doing.
50:52
And I mean, I was following you and, and, and you know, that's
50:55
inspiring for people who, who are in this whole re entry
50:59
community, regardless of where they fall into that layering of,
51:04
of re entry in the community, Everybody has their own feel and
51:07
story of how they feel when they get out.
51:10
Because in, in the what, what I, what I have found is, is that
51:15
regardless of when you get out, you carry a lifetime sentence
51:19
with you as a felon, ex felon. And you have to learn it's, to
51:25
live with it. You, you, you just put a, you
51:27
know, basically an extra weight around your neck and you walk
51:30
with it. And you, like you said, you have
51:32
to learn to tell your story the way that you need to be able to
51:35
tell it. You need to find where your
51:36
experiences can fit in to, to help make a difference because
51:41
we can make a difference. And you're doing that and in
51:44
such a positive way too. I mean, you're, you're, you're
51:47
using all the different pieces from the youth, all your
51:50
different things that you know, that you're helping people.
51:53
And I love that you're doing the paralegal stuff on the, on the
51:55
criminal defense stuff because you, you know, this stuff,
51:58
you've lived it. You were in the, in the law
52:00
library. If, if you know, if you look
52:05
back on everything, because I mean, it's, it's a, like I said,
52:09
it's a Netflix movie series. It has to be a series.
52:12
It can't be a movie. It's it's too many pieces to it.
52:15
Yeah, we have. To put these would be like 10
52:18
episodes at least, yeah. What do you think is your
52:22
biggest take away through everything that you've
52:25
experienced? Oh wow, that's a pretty big
52:28
question. My biggest take away that we
52:36
shouldn't be defined by our biggest mistake.
52:39
And that, you know, of being a pure criminal paralegal.
52:42
I fight for the guilty and the innocent.
52:44
I believe that people are redeemable.
52:49
I believe that people, if you give them an opportunity to
52:52
change, you give them the opportunity to be the best
52:56
version themselves, that it's possible.
52:59
And I think that as as a society throw people away too easily.
53:05
People don't wake up and think I'm going to kill somebody.
53:07
I mean, you know, or, or when they're a little boy, think I'm
53:11
going to end up prison or a little girl for the rest of my
53:13
life. Those are not that people think
53:15
about mitigating circumstances usually lead to something unless
53:20
you're a psychopath, serial killer difference.
53:25
But people too often I think throw people away.
53:29
Our prison system, our justice system.
53:32
So my biggest take away is we are all redeemable if given the
53:38
opportunity. Most of the time your people for
53:41
your worst crimes like the murder, like mine, it's a one
53:46
time thing. They're not ever going to really
53:49
like I said unless they're serial, you know whatever.
53:53
Most times most even your officers in prison rather have
53:57
somebody who killed somebody as their neighbor than they would
53:59
the guy that's doing meth and in and out of prison 6 times.
54:03
So my biggest take away is redeemable.
54:06
And. We can change the trajection of
54:09
our life. And you did.
54:11
And I think you're in prison right now.
54:15
You don't have to be part of the game.
54:17
You don't have to be part of the drug life.
54:19
You don't you don't have to do those things.
54:21
If you want different, be different where you are and you
54:24
could be the next leader meeting other people into that positive
54:28
situation. So and fight for your case.
54:31
Fight like hell. Nobody will fight for you.
54:34
Learn the law and help people help you.
54:38
Yeah, I love it and and everything you just said, you've
54:42
lived it. And that's what I love about
54:44
your story. Sheena is you've 10 years in
54:46
decided, hey, I don't care if I'm here for the rest of my
54:49
life, I'm going to be a better version of myself.
54:52
And you did. And and then you took the Hard
54:55
Knocks of getting out and and have figured out your path.
54:58
And if, if connected with all these different people who have
55:02
mentored you and, and now you're mentoring people and it's a good
55:07
story. It's a good story.
55:08
I've been, I've been really looking forward to this
55:12
interview because I think it reaches a lot of people on a lot
55:14
of different levels and it's. I want to quit everyday, Brent.
55:18
I want to quit everyday Criminal justice.
55:20
It's a hard job. It's hard.
55:21
It's. Hard.
55:24
I want to quit every other day, but I get a phone call from a
55:28
prison, whether it's Texas, Missouri, and I hear, hey, I
55:33
need help. And and so you hear those
55:37
stories and you're like, I can't quit.
55:39
I can't quit. And so.
55:41
And it feels good, doesn't it? I get a lot of, I get a lot of
55:44
phone calls from people either going into prison or coming out
55:46
of prison because of this show. And it feels good to be able to
55:52
share something that might help somebody or connect them to
55:55
somebody else that might be able to help them.
55:57
And and I think, you know, we can't fix the whole system, but
56:01
we can fix what we know pieces at a time and, and that that at
56:05
least feels better and, and what you're doing.
56:07
Sheena, I just, you know, if we could duplicate you and clone
56:10
you all over, it'd be fantastic. Thank you.
56:14
Speaking of gratitude and feeling good about things, I
56:17
want to thank Homestead financial home mortgage here
56:19
that lets me use this fancy equipment podcast room.
56:23
If you have a home mortgage need get a hold of Greg after you.
56:27
If he knows it all, he knows it all.
56:30
If you're looking for a book out there, I've got one.
56:32
It's nightmare. Success, loyalty, betrayal.
56:35
There it is right here. Check it out.
56:38
Go, go, go, go. Get that on Amazon, Barnes and
56:41
Noble. If you're looking for anything
56:45
that I'm doing, go to brentcassidy.com.
56:47
I spell it wrong. I spell it with ATY, not a DY,
56:50
as I used to say to my people when I was writing my emails
56:55
back and forth from Leavenworth. Stay strong.
56:57
I'll do the same. Sheena Eastburn, Keep doing what
57:01
you're doing. Don't don't quit doing it.
57:03
Everybody needs you out there. Thank you.
57:07
Nightmare success in and out.