Latest / Life with Bitcoin / What Should Bitcoin Teach the Next Generation? | Kristýna Mazánková

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What Should Bitcoin Teach the Next Generation? | Kristýna Mazánková · Life with Bitcoin

0:00
Emotions are driving people's reactions and actions.
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And fear is one of the strongest emotions.
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And negative emotions are much stronger, but they also don't last long.
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So affection is a positive emotion and it stays with you for life.
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You cannot be hating something for a very, very, very, very long time.
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It's so energy draining.
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So I think driving the communication through positive stories and positive emotions is a much longer way approach.
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Welcome to Live with Bitcoin, where we delve into the human set of Bitcoin by focusing on Bitcoiners' personal transformations and live stories.
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I'm your host, Ivy Lumi. Thank you for tuning in.
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If you like and want to support our mission on shining light on the human side of Bitcoin,
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remember to like this video, subscribe to this channel,
0:58
or leave a few sets in the link description to keep us going.
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One thing, today we're welcoming a very special guest who I've been working alongside for a few years
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and have really been able to witness her shine in close proximity for many times.
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So today we're welcoming Chris to join us on Live with Bitcoin.
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One thing I've always appreciated about Chris is that she never approaches communications as simply getting a message across, whether it's through Bitcoin magazine, the Bitcoin conference, or now as the director of the Master in Bitcoin program at Hesperides University.
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You got it.
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Yeah, her favorite is University. She's genuinely interested in helping people think more deeply. And I think this is what's going to make today's conversation so interesting. Because after spending years helping thousands of people discover Bitcoin, I imagine you begin to learn just as much about people as you do about Bitcoin itself. So Chris, welcome to Live with Bitcoin.
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Thank you so much for having me.
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And before we dive into a lot of the specific areas that you're specialized in, I'd like to start with something only you can answer.
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You've spent years helping people discover Bitcoin through conferences, media and now education.
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So one thing that fascinates me about your work is that you've watched thousands of people encounter Bitcoin for the first time as conference attendees, readers, journalists and now students.
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So after all these years, what do you think is the difference between someone who becomes Bitcoin Curious or someone whose life is genuinely changed by it?
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It's true that I see lots of people from different walks of lives.
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And what's fascinating, each of them have their own way into getting in Bitcoin and own reasoning and own experience that leads them to Bitcoin and how it clicks.
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So there is no general like orange pill that you can just like serve to people and say, this is why we Bitcoin.
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And, you know, there you go, your orange pill.
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Very much personal.
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It's a lifestyle.
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It's more of a, you know, I would even say like a philosophical way of thinking of your life approach.
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There is no one channel, like one omni-channel how to get to people.
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Some people just go out and talk to their friends and get influenced by a direct connection.
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It's really interesting and it's fascinating to me how you can actually do so many things in different ways and still get into the same conclusion.
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You've seen people encounter different, encountering Bitcoin in different settings too.
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And there's the classrooms and there's the conferences and events.
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There's the private conversations and the close group discussions that have impact on many areas that where the future of Bitcoin is going.
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And out of all of the people and the conversation you see, what do you think separates those who dismiss Bitcoin at first for those of whom who decided to keep exploring?
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So Bitcoin, what it does for you when you start understanding what Bitcoin is, it challenges your core beliefs.
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It challenges your beliefs on how society is organized, how money works, what's the role of money in the society.
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And so some people like to be challenged on those core beliefs and some people just take longer or will die on the hill of not having to change or challenge their beliefs.
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So it's very difficult.
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And I am probably like I say about myself, I'm the worst orange pill.
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I hate trying to convince people about my own beliefs and my own understanding of things.
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So I usually just when I am having conversations with someone who just like doesn believe you know that this is a solid you know approach to life I usually just like kind of ask them questions and challenge the way they thinking instead of trying to give them the explanations or the knowledge If you sparked the curiosity it goes much longer than when you just forcefully explain
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things like in a class.
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So that's also a little bit of the approach of Hesperides University.
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It's a private university that is focusing on exploring the education in a different way,
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in a way where they're challenging critical thinking, self-studying approach and curiosity
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of the students.
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It's an online degree and it's open for anyone who really wants to be challenged in the way
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they are thinking.
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Personal transformation aspect of Bitcoin is something that we all encounter as Bitcoiners
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and everybody who come on this show,
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they all have this common belief,
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oh, like Bitcoin really changed my life.
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But as someone who's not yet in the ecosystem,
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and when we throw out this argument and say,
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oh, Bitcoin changed my life,
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and this personal transformation,
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spiritual like limitation,
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how that process looks for you personally?
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Who were you before Bitcoin?
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I consider myself agnostic
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and I don't practice any like spiritual rituals.
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So the spiritual aspect of some people
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was more like discouraging for me than encouraging.
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So I approach it from a different perspective.
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I'm very practical.
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So for me, it's more like seeing what's happening in the world
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and there actually being a practical solutions
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to so many problems in the world
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because so many problems come from how money actually works.
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And I love Natalie saying, fix the money, fix the world.
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Absolutely agree with that.
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I think a practical approach is what did it for me.
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Funny enough, it all came together since like my beginning of being to Bitcoin.
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I feel like it's kind of like destined to be in Bitcoin because I come from a country
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and I am that old that I remember a communist regime and various stories from my own family.
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Houses were confiscated and people were made to live in very bad conditions until, you know, revolting against the regime and secretly copying books and songs that were prohibited.
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And my mom giving me the education of like, these songs are to be sung only in our home.
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You cannot go outside and sing these songs.
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So it was kind of a good memory to keep.
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Like, you know what, you know, the fight for the freedom meant to my parents, you know, not being able to travel and not being able to learn languages, not being able to understand what is happening outside of the one, you know, state TV channel propaganda.
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It really like sticked with me.
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I started to study in high school in economics and I had the really, really good open-minded teachers that put us into different like cross-school programs.
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and I became a part of the Libertarian Institute in Prague, participating in their summer school.
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And I kind of learned the economics of, you know, of Austrian libertarian economics since the
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beginning. And then I started to study at two universities. I know, European spoiled child,
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we have three universities. Well, it's not really free, but you have like a certain amount of time
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that you can study for free and that you have to pay. And because I'm not a really good student,
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I had to pay at the end. But anyway, I started to study economics and then mass communications,
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journalism and international relations, which was like a double degree study. And I studied
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two years of economics and I was like, you know, I get it. Like I get the big picture. I'm not
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interested in the details. I don't want to count, you know, the demand and the supply and all of
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these mathematics wasn't for me. I like this, like the stories and the history and the theories,
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but like the practical side and statistics wasn't for me.
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And so I stuck only with journalism and international relations.
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And there's like so many things connected and, you know, you kind of put the puzzle together.
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And when I started to dedicate myself to public relations and communications,
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a career opened in Satoshi Labs, which is the first hardware wallet treasurer maker.
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and so I started to work with them and I've been orange billed by you know the biggest OGs in the
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industry and it was a journey it for me it like at the beginning it didn't click especially the
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community I came into it being you know already a mom and being someone who was I would say a
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decade older than most of my colleagues so the cultural fit wasn't really there like it it costed
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me a little bit. I wasn't fitting in that much. And the community, you know, back then in 2019,
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it was brutal. Like, I always say, like, when they ask me, you know, from outside, when I was
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talking to someone who does a tech PR and they were like how is tech different to Bitcoin And I was like you know the most apparent thing is like Bitcoin community is savage like a Bitcoin Twitter for a communicator
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It's really like there is no, they will not pardon you any mistake and people will make a meme out
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of you and will make fun of you and it's hostile and brutal. But once you get over the initial phase
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and you understand it kind of grows in you
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and you're like, okay, I get it.
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Like, I get it.
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It's a brutal world.
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Right.
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And for your upbringing,
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you definitely brought up something that's unique
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because not every one of us has experienced
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only sing these songs at home, like stories, right?
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So do you feel like that have in a way contributed
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you being a Bitcoiner?
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And does it change how now you approach
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the communication with your children
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about Bitcoin and how they can or cannot be talking about it or in what way, right?
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Like, do you see the legacy kind of being passed down and how does it affect you as a person?
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You know what? I think I'm not doing a great job educating the kids about money.
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They're still little, they're eight and five.
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So I don't feel like it's the time yet, just yet.
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But I definitely notice it in approach of education in general,
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because a state education in Europe is like the most common thing.
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I would say, you know, 90% or maybe even more kids study in the public school.
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And so that kind of triggers the memories of me,
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like when my kids come with some, pardon the French,
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but it's bullshit from the school and propaganda.
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And I have to explain to them like,
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okay, yeah, I understand that they told you that in the school,
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but there is a different picture or there is a different story.
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And, you know, you have to kind of put a little bit more shape into the reality.
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So the kids, I think it's very important that people kind of take the same responsibility
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for their finances as they take for their, they should be taking for their education
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and education of their kids.
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And I'm not saying that public schools are bad.
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I think it's very important that we have at least some like standard and kids.
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Not everybody can afford, you know, private schools.
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But as a parent, you do have the same influence or if not bigger outside of the school.
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And so taking the time and explaining maybe, you know, your point of view and your worldview to your kids is very important.
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And I'm probably not doing it with the money yet, but in different aspects, yes.
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And then after you've gone through the phase, realizing these people are a decade younger than me,
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I guess for you, you didn't have much of a choice to start because you were kind of throwing that position.
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But how did you end up finding the groove and finding the beauty in it?
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There are a lot more seasoned professionals like you that are in the space.
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Do you see the generational gap between professionals in Bitcoin?
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I do, but I don't tell it that often to my colleagues.
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There is a special kind of professionals in Bitcoin industry.
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And that's those who are like super excited, super enthusiastic.
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but they never had a proper job before and so they don't have the life experience maybe but
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i for me for myself now after the years so i've been working in bitcoin since 2019 so it's gonna
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be like seven years but yeah i i find it now as my like a personal elixir of youth i'll take the
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happily the you know the younger colleagues and diseases and get get excited alongside with them
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It's really fun and keeps me young and keeps me fresh.
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And I wouldn't change that for anything.
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Do you have any hot tips on how to handle your Gen Z team?
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A lot of there are a lot of people who are having some new Gen Z colleagues.
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So how do you what is one thing you can say to both of them?
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Either it's the same thing or different things.
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So they can kind of work together a bit better from your experience.
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My job position is very like a lonely position.
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I'm not depending on their results and they're not depending on mine, I would say.
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So that helps, like, you know, making sure that you don't overstep to someone's role.
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And I certainly don't want them to overstep to my role.
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So kind of leaving them to have their own experience and then finding out.
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Also admitting that you might be, you know, just too old for this.
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And you probably have a completely different point of view.
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And where I can see that my point of view would be helpful, I share it.
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But when I see it's just like my point of view, I'll keep it to myself.
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Because why to discourage someone just because you are probably not the target audience for that type of thing, right?
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Like sometimes they come with a marketing idea or something.
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They'm like, yeah, that doesn't make any sense to me.
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But I, you know, realize, yeah, that's because I'm not the target audience.
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I not the person that should make it sense with you know so You saying this interestingly you like the ones I feel like will be helpful I will share but the ones that I don feel like it just my opinion I wouldn
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So there's this decision making happening, the strategizing happening already where you're
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strategizing what idea is valid, right, in this scenario.
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And this reminds me of what you're doing right now a lot with the programs.
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I just wanted to follow up because if you ask, I would say specifically like women that have children, they would call this strategy, like choose your battles.
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Like not everything is your battle.
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There is no need to die on every single hill.
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So let's just move on.
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Yeah, for the university, it was an interesting opportunity.
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I first started to teach the communication subject in the Spanish program, which is run by Álvaro de María.
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the author of philosophy of bitcoin and i was seeing how the program is going and not like
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how the students are excited how it's organized and i was like there must be something like that
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in english right and so i started searching and i didn't find anything and so then i went and talked
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to the rector and pro rector and alvaro and i was like why don't we do the same thing in english and
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And they were like, well, you know, do you want to do it?
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Like, okay.
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And that was it.
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And I found myself in the middle of like being responsible of finding the professors, making the curriculum and marketing the master degree and making sure that everything is run.
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Yeah.
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And so we are starting to teach in October this year.
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We had to postpone since May, just, you know, to align the semester and making sure that the experience is for the students in the Spanish program and in other programs the same as it is for the English program.
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So we took like a last minute decision to launch it in October instead of May.
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But yeah, I have great professors and so many people are like, you know, trying to join and supporting us that I'm really, really grateful for that.
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And I think for the university, it's one of the things that I truly believe is very important that you later in your life have the opportunity and access to education that is not limiting to, you know, strict academia as it is now at universities, especially like public universities in Europe.
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The public education in Europe is like very rigid and restricted to what they can accept as a program to be taught and also the curriculum of the students, like who can be a student of such a program.
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So I think it's very important to have like this middle ground where you do have an access to higher education and also education that is free of these typical academia regulations.
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And one of the things, for example, is the program is run, it's fully accredited by the European credits, but it's run under the university special education program, which means that the faculty doesn't need to be 60% doctor degree.
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So we can actually pull really experts from the field.
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And in a degree that is about, you know, a market that is 15 years old, like Bitcoin, more or less, it's very important that you don't have to go to traditional academia.
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For example, who would be teaching like mining, right?
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If I had to go to someone who has at least a doctor degree, because there is no doctor degree in mining.
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So I pulled from experts from the field that are, you know, really globally known experts and can teach the specifics of the degree.
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Wow. Yeah, that sounds like you are all to have different roots for emerging technologies like this.
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So glad to hear that we don't need to only hear from the academically redeemed individuals, because otherwise we're missing out on a huge part of what Bitcoin is and the story represents.
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And in this process, what surprised you most about designing a university curriculum around Bitcoin?
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I don't have an academic background.
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So for me, everything is surprising when it comes to structuring a master degree and everything is a learning curve.
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but I would say I was pleasantly surprised how many people were immediately yeah I mean I want
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to do this it's super interesting I want to be teaching I dedicate my life to teaching
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and I'll do it and there are even people are saying like I'll do it for free
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I'm happy to you know thought this and this so it's really pleasantly surprised how many people
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are interested. And then obviously on the other side, it's a lot of administrative work. It's a
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lot of management of different aspects, like onboarding the professors, making the
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admission process smooth, making commitments and speaking at the conferences or
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some extra traveling for me and some extra time dedicated for, you know, writing articles and
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talking about the degree. So yeah, lots of stuff. Do you have any like guiding philosophy that you
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were really thinking to apply in the process? And in this program, for example, you think,
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should Bitcoin education be more about teaching principles than technology or vice versa? How do
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you approach these two very diverse subjects in Bitcoin? I think that Bitcoin is a technology
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and there is need for technical people who understand in detail the technology, right?
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But there's also, you know, studies like BitVocation, for example, show that there is a
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big gap on the market, on the job market for Bitcoin companies that is looking for non-technical
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positions, but with a knowledge of Bitcoin. I think, you know, you worked in PTC Inc and you
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worked for different companies in the field and you know that the cultural fit and understanding
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of Bitcoin is super, super important to any company. So when you are looking at the job market now,
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Before it was, I have this Bitcoiner that I know, that I know that knows the industry.
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He just finished law school.
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Let's give him a lawyer position and let's see, right?
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And he'll figure it out.
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Now, the companies grew and they matured and some of them are public traded companies now
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and some of them are big corporations and they're no longer a family office of 30 people.
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And, you know, so all of these companies are looking for talent that is already like mature and really experienced in their field.
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So when they're looking for accountant or lawyer or marketing person or PR person or whatever, they're looking for someone who knows what they're doing.
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Like they don't need to be taught that specific field.
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But they still need someone who has a knowledge of Bitcoin.
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And yes, you can be taught Bitcoin, but when there is the cultural fit, that's the best.
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So basically, this is the gap that we are trying to close.
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And we are not going to be focusing on technology.
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There are degrees like if you want to be a developer and you want to dedicate, you know, to cryptography or whatever in Bitcoin, go and study, you know, programming or mathematics or whatever that does for you.
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But when you're looking into understanding the market, I would say you need this degree in that it's kind of more going deeply into the business, the Bitcoin philosophy, the economics of Bitcoin, general understanding what money is, understanding a little bit of the technology too, like self-custody, privacy, layer twos, mining, and all of these technical aspects too.
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But also the business side, like product development, communications, content creation, all of these aspects are part of the degree.
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So it's very multidisciplinary degree.
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Wow. Wow. I didn't know that. I love that about the program because I've hired roles over the years.
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And it was also back when you really can find the type of people who speak whatever language you need them to speak.
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And is a Bitcoin professional. And look at what they're doing. And within your budget.
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So there's a lot of parameters to fit.
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Over the years, I've tried to hire people who have little context about Bitcoin, but do very good at their job.
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And then you kind of try to educate them along the way.
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Or the type of people who have a lot of Bitcoin context, like true Bitcoiners, but they don't have experience on the job.
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And over the years, I've realized the first group of people actually works better than the second group of people.
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Just because you are a big winner, it's good you have all the context and the knowledge, but you still need you also need that very important skill set of the job itself.
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Let's say if you're a big winner, you're not going to magically become the best PR person that's ever existed just by being a big winner, just by having the context.
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Like the context is not enough. But if you are already a seasoned professional and then you're trying to catch the future, you're trying to position yourself in the world where the culture will be driven by Bitcoin, the financial market will be driven by Bitcoin.
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And then it sounds like this is something that will give you all of the context that you need and then to give you a jumpstart in the field.
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So am I right? Like what's the kind of the best people that can benefit the most from this program?
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think the
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masters is not exclusive
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for any type of people
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so you can study it online
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precisely for that you can be from anywhere
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in the world you can do self-study
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very little of the classes are
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like you need to be online
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at that exact hour most of the
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time you can just study yourself and do the exams but you need to participate online in discussions forums whatever You still part of the classroom right So that one thing
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It's not exclusive in terms of technical knowledge. You can know absolutely zero about Bitcoin and you
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will quickly understand. And then you can be also professional and you just can go deeper in your
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knowledge. So you can already know and work in Bitcoin. And I would say 50% of the students
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does already do something around Bitcoin and they're interested, but you can still go deeper.
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And then also the biggest added value to this is you're becoming a part of, you know, first academic
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network around Bitcoin specifically. So you can create more networking experience, get introduced
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to different companies and there's internship in plans for the absolvents. So there's lots of
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opportunities for people who want to either start working in Bitcoin from scratch or they just came
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freshly from university. They do have a bachelor's degree in law, for example, and now they want to
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implement in Bitcoin. And so they do the master's in Bitcoin. Or you are someone who is already
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professional and you just want to change because you want to work in Bitcoin and then you get this
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degree and you get the, you know, very like in-depth understanding of the Bitcoin community
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and market.
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Back to the building of the program in your work, how do you tell the difference between
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healthy conviction and dogmatism?
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And if we're creating a program for Bitcoin like this, then we're essentially in a way
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like there's a lot of power in it, right?
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You have to decide what goes in it, what doesn't, and what's important and what's secondary.
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A lot of these messages are communicated through the lines, like between the lines.
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And you have people grow the conviction for Bitcoin every day.
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But then you also have people being accused for being toxic maxi in that very process.
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And then we have technical rules.
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We have technical advancement.
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And then we also have dogmatism.
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The whole narrative behind that.
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personally, how do you distinguish the two? And then how do you have that effort shine through
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in your work and in your personal life? It's a lot of personal responsibility where I do really
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need to vet the professors and make sure that they're someone who I would trust my kids'
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education with. But I am also very free-minded in terms of when you are a student of this degree,
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you are challenged to disagree and to pose and to raise questions and self-study and use your
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critical thinking. So you do have an opportunity not to take everything as, you know, a dogma,
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but challenge it. And there's also several subjects that I would say, like, if they don't
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complement each other, but they go against each other, I would say. So you have, for example,
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traditional economics, like the theory of money. And then you have specifically like Bitcoin
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economics. So the professor of traditional economics might not be a Bitcoiner. And in fact,
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he is not. And then you have a professor of Bitcoin economics who is an economist, but
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Bitcoiner. So you can kind of compare these two subjects and choose whatever the truth is for you
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and challenge each of the professors.
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The same goes with, you know, having a philosophy of Bitcoin.
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Then you have someone who is going to be teaching, you know, other cryptocurrencies and comparing
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them to Bitcoin because you do need to understand why Bitcoin is different.
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So what's the difference by, you know, challenging the other cryptocurrencies?
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So, yeah, it's going to be interesting in terms of each of the professors having their
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own original point of views and sharing them with me and with the students you know from
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this whole journey and your observation what is the hardest thing about teaching bitcoin well
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think there is a lot of responsibility in how you teach people bitcoin but also a lot of people that
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don't want to take the responsibility and so they kind of use these disclaimers and they say this is
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what I think and you think for yourself which I think it's it's a good way it's you know making
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people understand that anything in the world you need to challenge with your own thinking yeah yeah
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totally Chris and in your own journey how do you do you protect your own thinking from becoming an
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echo chamber because you you you share that you are very agnostic you're a practical person and
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And I'm sure that you were the fact that you're very deep in the Bitcoin space and now in education and talking to all sorts of people, I'm sure you're exposed to a lot of different voices.
31:03
And how do you tell when you hear something that make you curious or make you doubt And how do you protect your own thinking and your values from becoming an echo chamber in that process whether it a voluntary process or a disvoluntary process
31:22
I think one very important thing for a PR person is to maintain the newbies point of view. Because
31:30
when you're communicating to media and, you know, general public, you're mostly talking to people
31:38
that don't have an understanding of Bitcoin.
31:42
So lots of the technical stuff you need to be like translating
31:45
into normal human language and explaining and simplifying.
31:51
So for me, it's very, very important to protect that point of view
31:56
and to kind of be understanding enough,
32:00
but not being too deep in the technicalities
32:04
because that would drag me down into, you know, down the rabbit hole
32:08
and getting into like, you know, new bibs and a core versus whatever developer, right?
32:16
So I don't want to go there because it's not important for the communications to masses.
32:23
If you are focusing on social media, you need to have more understanding on what's the discussion in the community,
32:31
what is trending.
32:33
So I don't do that in BTC Inc. level.
32:35
I do have other clients that I make sure that I know what the discussion is on. It is challenging
32:41
then to keep your, let's say, naive newbie eyes and understanding. For the communications,
32:48
it's very important to understand the technicalities, but not to get too much involved
32:53
in them and being able to translate them to normal human language, but also being able to
33:00
turn the mirror to the founders and the people that you're working with and say,
33:06
look, you're echoing here. Nobody is listening. Speak simple. Get back to roots, get back to
33:13
causes and purpose of Bitcoin. And so yeah, that's what I'm doing.
33:19
Over the years, you've been working in this space for like seven years. Does Bitcoin make you more
33:23
getting just getting comfortable with uncertainty or it makes you more certain about things in life
33:30
life in general and bitcoin in general for me i would say it's bitcoin works like an insurance for
33:37
me okay so so it's more of a certainty in the long term uncertainty in the short term so what
33:45
i'm trying to get to i understand daily hurdle of of a normal person that is like you know i need
33:53
cash, I need to pay rent, I need to pay mortgage, I need to pay food and Bitcoin is not there yet.
34:00
I do know people that live on Bitcoin completely and they say, when I need fiat, I buy fiat,
34:06
but that's not a realistic approach for someone with family and kids in a school and whatever the
34:15
complexity of running a household comes with. It certainly is not realistic to expect people to go
34:22
at this phase through that like making the mind yoga over every single bill it's just not realistic
34:31
that is going to happen anytime soon for for normal people i have some just in case you know
34:36
like i i do i like i i have some if something goes really bad i i feel more secure so short
34:44
term instability and long term it's more security right right and is there one belief that you've
34:51
changed your mind about over the years because of Bitcoin? One of the things that I changed mind
34:58
is about is probably how money works, really. I would say I was naive in terms of money and
35:07
I accepted, you know, this 2% inflation is a good thing. So I would say it changed a lot in terms of
35:16
how I think about money and how it works. And that money is then like leaked into the all aspects of
35:23
life. The more you think about it, it just changes a lot of beliefs that you have. And also it made
35:31
me, I would say, more accepting on different people's approach, which is interesting. I always
35:38
say it's super different how what bitcoin is and does in us and in europe for example and i'm not
35:46
going to be comparing to asia and africa because i like i really think like it's striking that two
35:53
cultures that you know are so you know comparable like us and europe have completely different
36:01
approach to Bitcoin. So in Europe, it's this crypto anarchism and people trying to break
36:09
from the state. In US, it's the business and it's the, you know, freedom of speech and freedom to
36:16
hold guns And it more connected to American Bitcoin is more likely traditional conservative you know Christian person where in Europe it more like someone who is more like a free like a hippie or i would say like anarchist right so no religion distrust to
36:37
government it's my personal thing my personal freedom i don't care what states say it's like
36:43
the regulation the corporation the michael sailors whatnot right it's more like individual decision
36:50
So it's really interesting how these two similar cultures have completely different approach to Bitcoin.
36:57
Each of these have different reasons for doing Bitcoin.
37:02
And so I truly believe like there is a there is a for each individual, there is a reason for Bitcoin and different approach how to get there.
37:11
And for me, it was understanding like finally how money works.
37:14
you've witnessed a lot. The conversations, the educations doesn't just happen inside a classroom.
37:21
And some lessons, some of the best lessons in the conversations happen in the hallways
37:25
over coffee or at conferences. And you definitely have contributed to a lot of the
37:30
events in this space. And what's your observation there? What do you think
37:37
Bitcoin conferences review about human nature when people get together,
37:41
Bitcoiners at a conference under the same roof? Yeah, there is a lot of different types of
37:47
Bitcoiners that you can witness. And there is lots of people that come to the conference for the
37:53
first time getting in, you know, to know Bitcoin. And there is, I would say, we distinguish the
38:00
Bitcoin conference from other events that I've been to as it's very, very diverse, whether it's
38:09
in Asia, whether it's in the US or MENA or even in Europe, there is like every type of audience
38:16
is being catered to. So like there's for institutions, there is for enterprises, there is
38:22
something for, you know, developers, open source guys, there's something for normal attendees,
38:29
people that want to learn more, people that just come to witness, you know, their favorite speaker.
38:35
So it's really, really interesting, like how it connects the whole different ecosystem and how, you know, if you were someone who is completely outside, never been to it, you always will find like your buddy at the Bitcoin conference.
38:51
Like you will always find someone that you are like, oh, I can talk to these people.
38:55
There is always someone.
38:57
So I think that's what the Bitcoin conference actually is unique with, that it caters to more audiences.
39:03
It's not a huge meetup of, you know, likely minded people.
39:08
It's truly like the whole industry ecosystem event where you will find anyone, like you
39:17
will find always someone interesting to talk to wherever you come from and something interesting
39:24
to learn about.
39:25
And some people hate it and they say like it's no longer a Bitcoiner event.
39:31
But I think it just grew over the years.
39:33
like the companies, like the community, like the ecosystem.
39:37
So it makes sense.
39:38
What is one behind the scenes stories or conversations that you've witnessed
39:43
that reminded you why this movement matters that you could share?
39:48
As we were talking about the Bitcoin conference,
39:50
I was just thinking about one scene.
39:52
And I don't know if you remember it,
39:54
but it was during the 2024 Nashville event where Donald Trump was speaking.
40:01
and we were you and me uh we were in the press area and we were listening to the speech and we're
40:08
like looking at each other it was like did he just assume like the success of bitcoin in his speech
40:14
and like said like because of me bitcoin price went up do you remember that scene and i think it
40:20
was it was hilarious because we were there like you know let's do this and it was like three weeks
40:27
before the event and he confirmed he's going to be speaking and it changed completely like the
40:32
floor plan everything the security and then two weeks ahead of the event he got shot in the ear
40:38
and it was like double security and everything was like even harder and we're like locked in and
40:45
we're doing this and I remember like three days before the event like we were looking for a pull
40:50
camera and I was like learning all of these new things and like I was you know talking to my
40:56
colleagues who are Americans like I don't know what bulldoze is like can someone tell us what
41:00
they're like requesting because the even the language around PR is completely different to
41:07
whatever I was used to so it was like huge like learning experience but then we were just there
41:15
it was happening like the ball was rolling and like there was no stopping it and and we were just
41:20
like for the first time listening to the speech and we were like what and it was so funny and I
41:26
And I remember like this behind the scenes one that I had with you.
41:29
I guess sometimes life put you in positions and then you're there without realizing what it was because you're just living your life, right?
41:36
Let that sink in type of energy.
41:38
And then you're like, whoa.
41:39
what's going on like why am i here exactly right i think bitcoiners all kind of share that it's like
41:46
you you get onto the bitcoin standard and realize that it's almost like a different timeline that you
41:52
think about life differently you think about money differently and then that goes onto the rabbit
41:57
hole of what life is and who you are and i think and and what can i do for other people now that i'm
42:04
in in this right there's a lot of opportunities for personal reflections every single day as
42:09
Bitcoiners as we think about how do we carry out our life and even for the generations that are
42:15
next to us. And now up to this day, seven years in, is there a question you still don't have an
42:22
answer to about Bitcoin? There would be definitely many, many technical questions that I don't have
42:28
an answer to. And I'm like, sometimes I like when I have an opportunity to talk to someone who I
42:33
know and understand the things I ask them to explain me but I would say there's a lot of
42:40
things that I've been realizing along the way and like the journey where you're thinking okay well
42:47
yeah let's buy some and then like let's let it sit in the in this exchange and like let's see
42:52
and then you're like self-custody what is that why do I need that yeah there are exchanges that you
42:58
know are not so trustworthy and so i should probably get a hardware wallet and then you
43:03
start like understanding you know that wasn't exactly my journey because i started to work for
43:08
hardware wallet so i had hardware wallet before i had a bitcoin but anyway you understand that like
43:13
the the thought process and then you realize oh kyc what is that why do i need that privacy
43:18
shoot okay utxos fees oh my and then you're like okay i should probably run a node like
43:26
am I a Bitcoin if I don't run a node? And then you start like getting into more technicalities and
43:34
like figuring out as you go. The advantage that we have now is that Bitcoin is really,
43:40
really global community. And so you do have an access to the information via internet basically
43:47
instantly. Now, like even like go to AI and asking it for like how to run your node, you get very
43:54
solid recommendations and you can find the source of the information in AI and they're
44:02
fine.
44:03
So I would say it a learning cure for everybody And just my biggest thing is don get overwhelmed at the beginning Like don overwhelm with people
44:14
It's not a rocket science.
44:16
It's still just money.
44:17
It's the same.
44:18
Do you need to know how your Visa card works and how it's your bank account connected to
44:24
that one POS?
44:26
You don't understand those things and you don't need to understand them in technical
44:30
detail in Bitcoin.
44:32
Bitcoin needed this at the beginning when you were truly like trying to get and convince people and getting their trust that it's something that is not, you know, built just like someone's program running in the garage or whatever.
44:51
So yes, you do need the technical details, but I think for the retail to get into Bitcoin, they will not care and they will not understand.
45:02
And then there is an opportunity to build tools for true retail that are easy to use and that are making people to actually use Bitcoin and leverage the potential of Bitcoin.
45:19
If you think about changing people's beliefs on how they should be self-custodying and protecting their privacy, it's a long road.
45:31
It's a long road.
45:32
And most of the people get tired right at the beginning.
45:36
And so they will just give up without even trying.
45:41
And so I think it's good to go from the approach, just buy, you know, $10 and see what it does for you.
45:48
Or tip the guy in a coffee shop with Bitcoin and say, hey, I'll tip you if you download this, you know, wallet.
45:56
Or taxi driver and talk to people and be open.
46:00
Don't be dismissive.
46:02
And don't be like making people fear scenarios.
46:06
I always say fear is a very like emotions are driving people's reactions and actions.
46:15
And fear is one of the strongest emotions and negative emotions are much stronger.
46:19
So they have the potential of driving activity quicker, quicker, right?
46:24
But they also don't last long.
46:26
So affection is a positive emotion and it you know it stays with you for life So if you like something you just like it And you don need to explanation why you like it You just like it If you hate something you cannot be hating something for very very very
46:43
very long time. It's so energy draining that, you know, if you fear something, it's the same,
46:49
like you get the first adrenaline and then it kind of like wears off. So I think driving the
46:55
communication through positive stories and positive emotions is much longer way approach.
47:01
That's a great point. You're a communicator. And from a communicator's perspective, what do you think, what will be the next trend of content that what should the next, let's say, batch of content geared towards so that we have the most impact to help onboard more people, like fresh people into the Bitcoin standard?
47:22
If I would have the answer, I would be probably the most wanted communicator in the world.
47:28
But I believe it is different for each brand.
47:34
And I think it always needs to be truth to your core as a brand.
47:39
It has to be deeply connected and rooted in what you're trying to achieve.
47:44
And so the story and whatever you put out, it cannot be disconnected.
47:49
It has to be all connected and it has to all make sense as a unit of content communications
47:56
that you put out there or even internally.
47:58
Like if there is this connection between internal communications and external communications,
48:03
that's a big problem too because it's going to leak.
48:06
It's going to be visible outside too.
48:09
If you don't convince the people the same way that work for you, how you pretend or
48:14
want to convince the people outside of the organization.
48:17
So it is a very, very difficult thing.
48:21
And it's not a thing that you build in a day or months or a year.
48:25
It's a thing that you're building for a long run.
48:30
Yeah, for sure.
48:31
And one thing I do love about this show is that every conversation eventually become less about Bitcoin and more about the people it changes.
48:40
So I'd love to leave with this.
48:42
What lessons would you hope humanity would keep from Bitcoin?
48:45
I think understanding of humans motivations and rights and how society is formed and how important it is to live in a community how important it is to live a fulfilled life focusing on what is important and not fighting each other over small things more love yeah i would say towards each other yeah yeah i would say and i think it very important to like
49:13
focus on your near self and your near community and you know things that are near to you and don't
49:21
get dragged into you know international politics that you know then affect on how you vote locally
49:30
and how you think about the world.
49:32
Like it's, I think it's very important
49:34
to live present life,
49:37
not just in time,
49:38
but also in the space where you are.
49:40
I think this is one of the most important lessons
49:42
that Bitcoin can learn.
49:43
Because once you get onto the rabbit hole
49:45
and stay humble, stack sats
49:47
and realizing that there's so much to build
49:49
and so much to change,
49:51
then the flip side of it is to go full on
49:54
and the grind, the endless sats stacking.
49:57
But then we do have the present life. We do have each day with family, with our loved ones, with ourselves. And this is where the Bitcoin magic starts to happen is when we start to ask ourselves these questions and really ready to leverage all of the tools to make changes.
50:16
And Chris, you have been fighting in the front line of this very, I wouldn't say it's a war because I'm trying to do this in a more hopeful and loving way.
50:25
So you're leading charge on the front line of the peaceful revolution for more love, more light, connected through Bitcoin and empowered by Bitcoin.
50:38
So it's a beautiful journey that you've personally gone through.
50:41
And now you are expanding yourself into new areas to help more people start their Bitcoin journey, further their Bitcoin journey and take them to a potential where they may even not have believed themselves.
50:57
It's great to witness this whole process coming to life.
51:01
And for our audience at Life with Bitcoin, how do they stay close to your work?
51:05
How do they stay close to the program?
51:06
If they were to want to learn more, where do we point them?
51:11
I will share a link with you for the Hesperides University.
51:15
There's all the information in my contact, so they can contact me directly through the university.
51:21
If you haven't gone through your daily dose of Bitcoin content, this is it.
51:24
And thank you so much, Chris, for joining us and sharing so openly.
51:29
And this is another episode of Live with Bitcoin.
51:31
I'm your host, Ivy Lumi, and we'll see you in the next one.