Latest / Weekly Docket / Jelly Roll Sued For Trademark Infringement, Florida Bans Chinese From Buying Property, and Estate Planning Myths

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Jelly Roll Sued For Trademark Infringement, Florida Bans Chinese From Buying Property, and Estate Planning Myths · Weekly Docket

• 0:05
  Track 1: Welcome to Silberman Law Firm's Weekly Docket, Episode 14, where we talk legal news and practical law.
• 0:12
  Track 1: Today is April 18th, 2024.
• 0:15
  Track 1: I'm Phil Silberman, your host and owner of the firm, and I'm joined by my co host, Austin Black.
• 0:21
  Track 1: How are you doing today, Austin?
• 0:22
  austin_1_04-18-2024_135316: well, how are you?
• 0:24
  Track 1: I'm doing pretty well.
• 0:25
  Track 1: What's on our docket today, Austin?
• 0:27
  austin_1_04-18-2024_135316: So today we are first talking about Jelly Roll getting sued for trademark infringement.
• 0:35
  austin_1_04-18-2024_135316: and then we're going to hear a little bit about an appeals court currently set a hearing.
• 0:41
  austin_1_04-18-2024_135316: To hear arguments on Florida's ban on Chinese nationals buying homes in Florida.
• 0:49
  austin_1_04-18-2024_135316: there's been some misinformation about the legality of banning Chinese foreign nationals without us citizenship of buying home.
• 0:55
  austin_1_04-18-2024_135316: and then we'll be going through our legal questions.
• 0:58
  austin_1_04-18-2024_135316: Specifically focusing on whether or not in Texas.
• 1:02
  austin_1_04-18-2024_135316: You need an estate planning service that involves the creation of various trust structures and things like that, and then in the same vein in our renting and raving section, we're going to be talking about a revocable trust and why you Spoiler alert.
• 1:19
  austin_1_04-18-2024_135316: Generally do not need them in Texas.
• 1:22
  austin_1_04-18-2024_135316: and what to do if an attorney quotes you a revocable trust, when you really don't need one, we'll tell you how to approach that situation.
• 1:30
  Track 1: I'm excited for our show today.
• 1:31
  Track 1: It sounds like we're talking about Jelly Roll, the Chinese in Florida, and estate planning.
• 1:39
  austin_1_04-18-2024_135316: that sounds like an accurate summation of what we're going over.
• 1:43
  Track 1: Let's kick it off with our legal news section.
• 1:46
  Track 1: We're talking about Jelly Roll, who is a country artist.
• 1:51
  Track 1: was sued by a popular Philadelphia area wedding band for trademark infringement.
• 1:57
  Track 1: Now Austin, who is Jelly Roll,
• 1:59
  austin_1_04-18-2024_135316: to be completely honest, I have absolutely no idea who this person is.
• 2:04
  austin_1_04-18-2024_135316: I've never heard of them.
• 2:05
  austin_1_04-18-2024_135316: I'm quite proud of the fact that I've never heard of them.
• 2:08
  austin_1_04-18-2024_135316: with a name like Jelly Roll and being a country artist, I don't think that their music can have a huge amount of meaning, but true be wrong.
• 2:15
  Track 1: so Jelly Roll is a fat country singer with face tattoos.
• 2:22
  Track 1: He was nominated for two Grammys, did not win any.
• 2:25
  Track 1: His most famous songs are Son of a Sinner, which is, yeah, that's a catchy title.
• 2:31
  Track 1: I think we're all sons of sinners.
• 2:34
  Track 1: And save me, which hence the salvation would be needed if you're the son of a sinner.
• 2:40
  Track 1: So can't fault him for those titles.
• 2:43
  Track 1: His real name is Jason Bradley DeFord, and he started going by the alias Jelly Roll in 2010 when he started doing gigs.
• 2:52
  Track 1: And he later applied for a trademark much later in March of 2024.
• 2:58
  Track 1: But why jelly roll is doing all that.
• 3:00
  Track 1: It turns out that there's another musical jelly roll out there.
• 3:06
  Track 1: No space, all one word, jelly roll.
• 3:09
  Track 1: That happens to be a popular wedding band in the Philadelphia area.
• 3:14
  Track 1: they've been doing weddings for about, Oh, I don't know, 40 years since the 1980s.
• 3:20
  Track 1: I pulled them up on their website or YouTube.
• 3:23
  Track 1: I would describe their music as somewhere between Motown and rap.
• 3:30
  Track 1: So their complaint is when people go onto Google and search jelly roll.
• 3:36
  Track 1: They no longer come up.
• 3:37
  Track 1: In fact, they say that you might get 18 to 20 references about the jelly rolled country singer with the face tattoos before you even come to any of their listings.
• 3:48
  Track 1: And they're saying that's causing them from Getting bookings.
• 3:52
  Track 1: It's causing the public to be confused and they're very concerned about this.
• 3:56
  Track 1: So they filed a lawsuit against the country singer Jelly Roll.
• 4:00
  Track 1: let's talk a little bit about trademark law first.
• 4:03
  Track 1: What is the definition of a trademark Austin?
• 4:07
  Track 1: And we've got this as defined by the United States Patent and Trademark Office.
• 4:12
  austin_1_04-18-2024_135316: a symbol design or a combination of these things, that identifies your goods or services.
• 4:17
  austin_1_04-18-2024_135316: It's how customers recognize you in the marketplace and can distinguish you from your competitors.
• 4:21
  Track 1: Sure.
• 4:22
  Track 1: So Coca Cola, Pepsi, McDonald's, renowned American trademarks.
• 4:28
  Track 1: Now trademarks can be interchangeably used with service marks, but technically there's a difference between a service mark and a trademark.
• 4:35
  Track 1: If you offer services, you have a service mark.
• 4:37
  Track 1: If you offer goods, you have a trademark.
• 4:40
  Track 1: But nowadays people just collectively refer to both of them are trademarks.
• 4:44
  Track 1: what are the elements of trademark infringement, Austin?
• 4:47
  austin_1_04-18-2024_135316: so trademarks are created by the Lanham Act.
• 4:49
  austin_1_04-18-2024_135316: it's a federal statute.
• 4:50
  austin_1_04-18-2024_135316: and to infringe upon someone's trademark, you need to have first a valid and legally protectable mark.
• 4:57
  austin_1_04-18-2024_135316: the person suing has to own the mark.
• 5:01
  austin_1_04-18-2024_135316: The person who they're alleging breached or infringes upon their trademark to cause the likelihood of confusion, which is usually where the biggest fight in any trademark dispute is, whether there is actual confusion over who is who with the trademark.
• 5:19
  Track 1: yeah, that's a, an accurate rendition of the Lanham Act, which is a federal statute that describes trademark infringement.
• 5:31
  Track 1: the meat and potatoes, as Austin was saying, of trademark infringement is whether the public gets confused with a mark, and you can have trademarks arise under both common law and federal statute.
• 5:45
  Track 1: There are some benefits to registration, but a good example of confusingly similar I like to use is the movie Coming to America.
• 5:54
  Track 1: it is an excellent movie.
• 5:55
  Track 1: I highly recommend it.
• 5:57
  Track 1: And there's a scene in the movie where Eddie Murphy's playing the African prince, I believe.
• 6:02
  Track 1: And he wants to act like a poor person.
• 6:04
  Track 1: He wants to come to America and be a regular American.
• 6:07
  Track 1: So he wants to get a job and he ends up applying for a job at a fast food restaurant.
• 6:12
  Track 1: And he doesn't apply to a job at McDonald's, but rather he applies for a job at McDowell's.
• 6:18
  Track 1: Okay.
• 6:19
  Track 1: And McDowell's is obviously a rip off of McDonald's, but it's the, it's funny.
• 6:24
  Track 1: It's all set up because the owner of McDowell's is there talking to him.
• 6:28
  Track 1: and he says, Oh, those were those guys from McDonald's complaining again.
• 6:32
  Track 1: We're nothing like McDonald's.
• 6:33
  Track 1: McDonald's has the golden arches at McDowell's.
• 6:37
  Track 1: We have the golden arcs and he's like at McDonald's, they have the big Mac at McDowell's.
• 6:44
  Track 1: We have the big Mick.
• 6:46
  Track 1: it is the.
• 6:47
  Track 1: the heart of a very funny comedy and you should not miss it.
• 6:51
  Track 1: obviously the public would be confused by McDowell's versus McDonald's and hamburgers.
• 6:56
  austin_1_04-18-2024_135316: One of my favorite cases.
• 6:58
  austin_1_04-18-2024_135316: And the entire world is, Mattel company versus, Aqua, the band.
• 7:05
  austin_1_04-18-2024_135316: They have the song Barbie girl
• 7:06
  Track 1: Okay.
• 7:07
  Track 1: Okay.
• 7:08
  Track 1: Okay.
• 7:09
  Track 1: Yeah.
• 7:10
  austin_1_04-18-2024_135316: uh, alleging trademark infringement is interesting.
• 7:13
  austin_1_04-18-2024_135316: So, yeah.
• 7:15
  Track 1: I said, you don't have to federally register the mark to get protection, you can get protections that arise just out of common law by using the mark.
• 7:24
  Track 1: And that's both at common law.
• 7:26
  Track 1: And it's also in the Lanham Act.
• 7:29
  Track 1: And the first factor, if you want federal protection under the Lanham Act, is you have to use the trademark in commerce, and then you have to use the trademark in a particularly geographic area.
• 7:39
  Track 1: for example, you might see Bill's Auto Repair Shop.
• 7:44
  Track 1: Bill is not going to go down to the USPTO and register the trademark, but Bill starts his auto repair shop in Houston, and he begins to have trademark protection by virtue of using the mark in Houston, Texas.
• 7:58
  Track 1: and there could be a completely different Bill's Auto Repair Shop in New York City.
• 8:03
  Track 1: and the two of them would not necessarily, be infringing on each other's trademark.
• 8:08
  Track 1: but you do get some additional protections if you federally register the mark.
• 8:13
  Track 1: The first thing is you get nationwide rights.
• 8:16
  Track 1: So if you go out and register the mark with the USPTO, you can get national protection.
• 8:22
  Track 1: It also allows the USPTO to police the mark.
• 8:26
  Track 1: So if you have yours registered and other people begin to attempt to register the mark, the USPTO will reject that registration.
• 8:34
  Track 1: So they're policing your mark.
• 8:35
  Track 1: They're helping you protect your brand.
• 8:38
  Track 1: You get the right to sue in federal court, which can be advantageous.
• 8:42
  Track 1: So there are certain benefits to federally registering your mark.
• 8:46
  Track 1: What about state registration?
• 8:47
  Track 1: Is that possible, Austin?
• 8:48
  Track 1: Can you register your trademark with the state?
• 8:50
  austin_1_04-18-2024_135316: register with the Secretary of State.
• 8:52
  austin_1_04-18-2024_135316: you do only get state protection.
• 8:55
  austin_1_04-18-2024_135316: So if you attempted to enforce that trademark outside of the state, that's not going to work.
• 8:59
  austin_1_04-18-2024_135316: you can't use the federal trademark logo, which is the little R with the circle around it.
• 9:05
  austin_1_04-18-2024_135316: But it is cheaper to file less paperwork and generally cost less if you're hiring an attorney to do that as well.
• 9:11
  Track 1: Yeah.
• 9:12
  Track 1: And by the way, we don't really ever recommend that you register the trademark with this.
• 9:17
  Track 1: For example, the state of Texas, the secretary of state will accept a trademark registration at our law firm.
• 9:23
  Track 1: I'm not exactly sure why you would ever register with the state when you could just go straight to the federal.
• 9:29
  Track 1: The state charges 50 bucks to register the trademark.
• 9:33
  Track 1: I think the federal registration is 250.
• 9:36
  Track 1: So the price really is fairly insignificant.
• 9:38
  Track 1: So, who wins here?
• 9:40
  Track 1: We've got Jelly Roll with the space verse Jelly Roll, the wedding band.
• 9:46
  Track 1: Jelly Roll said he started using the mark in 2010 under the common law.
• 9:51
  Track 1: Is it really confusing, Austin?
• 9:54
  Track 1: would you ever be confused between, they both sing music, but as far as I can tell, that's about it.
• 10:00
  Track 1: Would you ever be confused with a wedding band?
• 10:03
  Track 1: singing Motown slash rap slash soul music with a country music singer with face tattoos.
• 10:13
  Track 1: I don't see it.
• 10:14
  Track 1: So can they, two of them coexist?
• 10:16
  austin_1_04-18-2024_135316: very easy for the two of them to coexist.
• 10:18
  austin_1_04-18-2024_135316: And I really wonder what the basis of this suit is.
• 10:21
  austin_1_04-18-2024_135316: I really wonder what was happening that pushed them to actually move forward with this.
• 10:26
  austin_1_04-18-2024_135316: Cause this is not an insignificant lawsuit that I'm sure would have a large amount of legal fees.
• 10:31
  Track 1: It's probably an expensive lawsuit.
• 10:33
  Track 1: And I do think they're somewhat of a popular wedding band.
• 10:37
  Track 1: As far as wedding bands go, they did federally register their mark in 2010.
• 10:43
  Track 1: Jelly Roll does allege that he started to use the mark without registration about that same time.
• 10:50
  Track 1: So there's going to be some analysis of who used it first in time, I think they're going to have a problem convincing the course that the public is truly confused, Let's go ahead and move right along to something that has nothing to do with wedding bands or country music stars.
• 11:05
  Track 1: Let's talk about Florida's ban on Chinese home buying.
• 11:09
  Track 1: And there's going to be an appeals court hearing on this.
• 11:12
  Track 1: So we're talking about Florida Senate Bill 264, which bans citizens of China and six other countries.
• 11:20
  Track 1: from buying real estate in Florida.
• 11:22
  Track 1: There are other states that have these laws.
• 11:24
  Track 1: This is not a new thing going on.
• 11:27
  Track 1: Our home state of Texas, we have a law that bans the Chinese, Iranians, Russians, North Koreans from buying agricultural land.
• 11:36
  Track 1: That's things mines, oil and gas minerals.
• 11:40
  Track 1: We don't want those people from those evil countries owning our precious resources and our minerals.
• 11:46
  Track 1: Montana, similar to Texas, but also includes homes near military assets, Alabama only targets Chinese.
• 11:55
  Track 1: Alabama, that's all they care about the Chinese.
• 11:56
  Track 1: Everybody else is okay.
• 11:58
  Track 1: They don't bother to define real property.
• 12:01
  Track 1: So in Alabama, if you're Chinese, screw it.
• 12:04
  Track 1: We don't want you.
• 12:05
  Track 1: We don't, not even going to let you lease a double wide trailer in Alabama.
• 12:09
  Track 1: That's how Alabama handles this issue.
• 12:11
  Track 1: And other states are considering these types of laws.
• 12:14
  Track 1: Okay, Georgia, Mississippi as well.
• 12:17
  Track 1: Tennessee, but it's not just the conservative states.
• 12:19
  Track 1: There are some liberal states as well.
• 12:21
  Track 1: California and the state of Washington is also considering some of these types of laws.
• 12:26
  Track 1: So
• 12:26
  austin_1_04-18-2024_135316: would be though.
• 12:27
  Track 1: this,
• 12:27
  austin_1_04-18-2024_135316: you're a Chinese national, you've grown up, you've been, you're just like, like an Anglophile.
• 12:32
  austin_1_04-18-2024_135316: You really love like American culture.
• 12:34
  austin_1_04-18-2024_135316: Your dream is to own a trailer in Alabama.
• 12:36
  austin_1_04-18-2024_135316: And because of this law, you cannot achieve your dream.
• 12:39
  austin_1_04-18-2024_135316: I think that's a violation of the American dream for the entire world.
• 12:42
  Track 1: sounds like a Chinese spy to me.
• 12:45
  Track 1: these state laws are not completely unprecedented, okay?
• 12:49
  Track 1: States government has exerted some control and tightened this up a little bit when it comes to regulation.
• 12:56
  Track 1: They've been concerned about our military bases, rightfully so.
• 12:59
  Track 1: There was, I don't know if you saw, there was an article, Grand Forks Air Force Base in North Dakota.
• 13:04
  Track 1: it was close to doing a deal, a Chinese company, was going to buy some land near that air force base.
• 13:10
  Track 1: It got canceled.
• 13:11
  Track 1: This was the Fu Feng group with ties to the Communist Party.
• 13:16
  Track 1: And Fu Feng, that just sounds like an evil company.
• 13:19
  Track 1: So I can see why we wanted to nix that.
• 13:21
  Track 1: Now,
• 13:22
  austin_1_04-18-2024_135316: but yes, the way you're saying it does
• 13:24
  Track 1: Fu Feng.
• 13:25
  Track 1: So we now have a federal committee on foreign investment and that committee reviews any land purchases by foreign entities or foreign persons if it's within a hundred miles from a U.
• 13:37
  Track 1: S.
• 13:37
  Track 1: military base.
• 13:38
  Track 1: and that was a Biden proposal that was adopted.
• 13:40
  Track 1: So the U.
• 13:40
  Track 1: S.
• 13:40
  Track 1: government is very concerned about this.
• 13:43
  Track 1: The states are concerned about this.
• 13:45
  Track 1: I want our listeners to know this just isn't conservative Florida or conservative Texas so what are the details of Senate Bill 264?
• 13:54
  Track 1: Prohibits non citizens who domicile in China from purchasing any property in the state.
• 14:00
  Track 1: There's some exceptions for asylum seekers.
• 14:02
  Track 1: So if you were fleeing China and you were wanting to seek asylum free fleeing the Communist Party, that There may be some exceptions for you.
• 14:11
  Track 1: It's less restrictive for some of these other evil countries.
• 14:14
  Track 1: They call them countries of concerns like Cuba, Venezuela, Iran, North Korea, Russia, and Syria.
• 14:21
  Track 1: I don't get the whole Cuba thing.
• 14:22
  Track 1: I don't know how they're going to enforce that in Miami because it's, uh,
• 14:26
  austin_1_04-18-2024_135316: to keep out the
• 14:27
  Track 1: you know,
• 14:28
  austin_1_04-18-2024_135316: which is definitely working, right?
• 14:30
  Track 1: not, not, yes, not working at all.
• 14:34
  Track 1: so here are the arguments against legality.
• 14:36
  Track 1: These are the arguments why this thing should not be legal.
• 14:40
  Track 1: First of all, they're arguing it's chilling the effect for Chinese immigrants and Asians that want to buy property or want to assimilate.
• 14:49
  Track 1: And we've got a quote here.
• 14:51
  Track 1: from, the Asian American Democratic Club.
• 14:54
  Track 1: Ling Lu under their bills, everybody will look at Chinese people like a spy.
• 15:00
  Track 1: That's Ling Lu, founder of Asian American Democratic Club, and he's protesting the Texas Senate bill that I think we just passed.
• 15:09
  Track 1: So there's that concern.
• 15:10
  Track 1: And then to your point on immigration, Are you familiar with an H 1B specialty occupation visa, Austin?
• 15:16
  austin_1_04-18-2024_135316: that people use to enter and work with us.
• 15:17
  austin_1_04-18-2024_135316: Yes.
• 15:18
  Track 1: Yeah.
• 15:18
  Track 1: Okay.
• 15:18
  Track 1: So Those are good people.
• 15:20
  Track 1: We want here.
• 15:20
  Track 1: Those are engineers, scientists, doctors, and they've filed a lawsuit saying it violates the Fair Housing Act.
• 15:28
  Track 1: And the Fair Housing Act was enacted in 1968.
• 15:30
  Track 1: It's meant to prohibit, race discrimination in housing.
• 15:34
  Track 1: there are some people also saying that this violates the 14th Amendment, Equal Protection and Due Process Clause.
• 15:40
  Track 1: And the idea is that this law, and there's no question, this law does not discriminate against U.
• 15:48
  Track 1: S.
• 15:48
  Track 1: citizens.
• 15:49
  Track 1: We all know that you can't do that anymore.
• 15:52
  Track 1: there were a series of laws back in the, early ish 20th century had mostly to do with, the Japanese where we actually discriminated against, U.
• 16:05
  Track 1: S.
• 16:06
  Track 1: citizens.
• 16:06
  Track 1: and I believe in 1952, the Supreme Court abolished the last law that discriminated against U.
• 16:13
  Track 1: S.
• 16:13
  Track 1: citizens based on the fact that their parents may have been Japanese from owning property.
• 16:18
  Track 1: So there's no more of that.
• 16:19
  Track 1: it's unquestionable.
• 16:20
  Track 1: You have to let U.
• 16:21
  Track 1: S.
• 16:21
  Track 1: citizens buy land.
• 16:22
  Track 1: You can't discriminate against U.
• 16:24
  Track 1: S.
• 16:24
  Track 1: citizens.
• 16:24
  Track 1: no one's saying we're discriminating against them.
• 16:28
  Track 1: but the Supreme Court has long upheld restrictions on purchase of land by foreign individuals, non U.
• 16:34
  Track 1: S.
• 16:34
  Track 1: citizens.
• 16:35
  Track 1: there is some precedents here.
• 16:38
  Track 1: There are many state statutes out there that regulate involvement with foreign individuals.
• 16:44
  Track 1: that we think are problems or concerning.
• 16:46
  Track 1: So for example, pension funds or asset procurement, we won't let those offices do business.
• 16:53
  Track 1: Yeah,
• 17:05
  austin_1_04-18-2024_135316: I don't know.
• 17:05
  austin_1_04-18-2024_135316: I think that there should be more, protections for people, For instance, like preventing H 1B visa holders from, purchasing property, I think is ridiculous.
• 17:14
  austin_1_04-18-2024_135316: those are the sort of people you want here.
• 17:16
  austin_1_04-18-2024_135316: I think that there should be some sort of screening process to determine if there is any cause for concern.
• 17:21
  austin_1_04-18-2024_135316: For various people purchasing who are foreign nationals, maybe from these countries, but just carte blanche saying, you can't buy it if you're a citizen of this country, I think is a bit ridiculous.
• 17:30
  Track 1: this is a very fast evolving area of law, and a lot of this is stemming from the geopolitical tensions between China and the United States.
• 17:39
  Track 1: And the U.
• 17:40
  Track 1: S.
• 17:41
  Track 1: I think this ends up more politically than it does legally.
• 17:44
  Track 1: The 11th Circuit is going to hear this and they're going to make a decision on Florida's, anti Chinese purchase law.
• 17:52
  Track 1: We'll see if that ends up getting all the way up to the U.
• 17:55
  Track 1: S.
• 17:56
  Track 1: Supreme court or what happens with that.
• 17:57
  Track 1: Hopefully, whatever comes out, we don't make the same mistakes that we made during World War II with the Japanese, where we really did discriminate pretty harshly against Japanese citizens.
• 18:09
  Track 1: All right, let's answer some legal questions.
• 18:11
  Track 1: Who really needs estate planning and trust?
• 18:14
  Track 1: we get this call all the time and they call up and they say, I need estate planning and I've got to have a trust.
• 18:19
  Track 1: what's your answer to that, Austin?
• 18:21
  austin_1_04-18-2024_135316: you don't.
• 18:22
  austin_1_04-18-2024_135316: That is my
• 18:23
  Track 1: Okay.
• 18:23
  austin_1_04-18-2024_135316: that.
• 18:24
  austin_1_04-18-2024_135316: Then I'll ask them some questions,
• 18:25
  Track 1: that tends to burst their bubble because It's like all these rich people need estate planning and trust, and the thing with America, you may not know this, Austin, is, and they did a survey.
• 18:35
  Track 1: Very few people, if any people, really ever identified with being poor.
• 18:39
  Track 1: They identified with the fact that they're just not rich yet.
• 18:42
  Track 1: America still has that mentality and the people calling us, most of the time, 99 percent of situations, People do not need a living trust or any other kind of complex estate planning.
• 18:55
  Track 1: Now, there are some rare circumstances where we might want to suggest that they get some complex estate planning or trust.
• 19:03
  Track 1: so if someone calls up and they say, okay, I've got you know, a bunch of money and we're talking about over 25 million if you're married in 2024 So a lot of money.
• 19:15
  Track 1: They probably need a fancy estate planning attorney and you're going to get into all of these complex things that our firm actually does not do.
• 19:22
  Track 1: We will refer those types of people to an estate planning attorney.
• 19:26
  Track 1: You're going to get into things like Q tips and IDTs and it's very complex stuff.
• 19:31
  Track 1: And the liability, if you're out there and listening to the show and you're one of those people that has a net worth of that amount, you want a qualified attorney, but more importantly is you want an attorney with a really big malpractice policy.
• 19:45
  Track 1: and you want a firm that's very well heeled because that is the easiest and the quickest way to commit malpractice is to start dabbling in those complex areas of estate planning.
• 19:57
  austin_1_04-18-2024_135316: if
• 19:58
  Track 1: But most people,
• 19:59
  austin_1_04-18-2024_135316: a Q tip in this context is inserted in your ear, you definitely want to steer clear.
• 20:04
  Track 1: stay away from, stay away from that guy, okay?
• 20:07
  Track 1: now there is some concern that these larger estate tax thresholds, if your estate is worth under 25 million and you're married, nothing to worry about until the end of 2025.
• 20:21
  Track 1: If Congress does not take action, if they take zero actions, then the old thresholds are going to take place, which ends up being about seven and a half million dollars for individuals and 14 and a half million dollars, for married people.
• 20:38
  Track 1: Newsflash, that's still a lot of money for 99 percent of people.
• 20:42
  Track 1: I don't know what the percentage is of married people that have a net worth over 14 million.
• 20:47
  Track 1: I'm going to go out on a limb and say it's less than 1 percent of the country, even if those, tax thresholds do reset.
• 20:54
  Track 1: So you may need a trust if you've got a child or someone you want to provide for that has a special need.
• 21:01
  Track 1: You can need a special needs trust.
• 21:03
  Track 1: If you're prone to disability, you may want a trust for that kind of situation.
• 21:08
  Track 1: If you have assets in other countries or other states, that may be appropriate for a trust.
• 21:14
  austin_1_04-18-2024_135316: if
• 21:14
  Track 1: But else, go ahead.
• 21:16
  austin_1_04-18-2024_135316: if you have a child that, you can't trust to have a large amount of money, a spin thrift trust, it's what that's for.
• 21:23
  austin_1_04-18-2024_135316: yeah,
• 21:26
  Track 1: Yeah, so you certainly some reasons you may want to do some more in depth estate planning, but the reality is you probably just need a will and some basic powers of attorney.
• 21:38
  Track 1: Texas has a very simple probate process.
• 21:41
  Track 1: We average what probate takes.
• 21:44
  Track 1: What about 60 days?
• 21:45
  Track 1: How much are we currently charging for a test date probate right now, Austin?
• 21:48
  Track 1: Yeah, absolutely.
• 21:48
  austin_1_04-18-2024_135316: usually of 3000.
• 21:50
  austin_1_04-18-2024_135316: That includes the filing fee
• 21:51
  Track 1: Yeah, and we're not trying to sell you our services.
• 21:54
  Track 1: it's, you can use whatever firm you want to use, but the probates are fairly uncomplicated, affordable processes in Texas.
• 22:02
  Track 1: If you get an attorney quoting you much over five grand for a probate, that's a red flag for a simple probate with a will.
• 22:10
  Track 1: So you need a basic will, you need a medical power of attorney just if you, should you become incapacitated.
• 22:16
  Track 1: You're going to designate someone to make decisions about your health.
• 22:19
  Track 1: You need a statutory durable power of attorney.
• 22:22
  Track 1: That takes care of your financial assets should you become incapacitated.
• 22:25
  Track 1: And you can get a will and basic POAs done starting at around a thousand dollars.
• 22:31
  Track 1: So it's a very affordable process.
• 22:33
  Track 1: you can go to law firms out there and you can pay more.
• 22:37
  Track 1: If you're the kind of person you want the white glove treatment and in the old days, this is how you got it done.
• 22:43
  Track 1: you would go into a lawyer's office.
• 22:45
  Track 1: You'd have an initial estate planning consult.
• 22:47
  Track 1: You drink coffee, water, you get some free chocolate.
• 22:51
  Track 1: The attorney would listen to you and then you would go home, and he would draft everything up, and then you would do a review, and then he'd bring you back for this very official looking will signing.
• 23:01
  Track 1: You would get some expensive paper.
• 23:03
  Track 1: to print your will on and there would be this blue back.
• 23:06
  Track 1: And if you've ever seen any, have you ever seen any of these wills, Austin?
• 23:10
  Track 1: Okay, you have this blue backing on the paper and the witnesses come in and, you're signing on mahogany and you're sitting in leather chairs.
• 23:19
  Track 1: if you want that kind of experience, you're going to pay a lot of money for that experience, but you don't need it.
• 23:26
  Track 1: But I will say this, don't use the internet forms.
• 23:29
  Track 1: It's like in life, don't go with the most expensive bidder, but don't go with the cheapest bidder also.
• 23:35
  Track 1: and those internet companies, the forms out there, they're often national forms, they don't necessarily fit in Texas.
• 23:41
  Track 1: The will will likely be valid, so I'm not totally throwing them under the bus, the will will likely to be valid.
• 23:47
  Track 1: But one of the biggest problems we see is that people getting the internet forms, they just don't know how to sign the stuff.
• 23:53
  Track 1: They don't know what a testator is, where the testator signs.
• 23:56
  Track 1: They don't know what witnesses they're supposed to use.
• 23:59
  Track 1: And they'll sometimes name beneficiaries and I'll try to use those beneficiaries as a witness.
• 24:04
  Track 1: And that's a big, no, no.
• 24:06
  Track 1: And just basic things like completing the statutory acknowledgement, the short form acknowledgement on the notary block.
• 24:14
  Track 1: And if you don't know what a short form acknowledgement block is, that's probably a red flag that you don't need to use an internet form because you're going to mess up how to sign that thing.
• 24:23
  Track 1: And that can be a big problem.
• 24:24
  Track 1: also if you have minor Children, don't use Internet forms because most of the time those wills will not accommodate the designation of a financial trustee and you need just a little baby testamentary trust where you name a trustee with those minor kids.
• 24:40
  Track 1: And then you also want to designate a guardian and those internet forms typically don't get that done.
• 24:45
  Track 1: all right, now we can get into our rants and raves section and we're talking about the revocable trust or living trust.
• 24:52
  Track 1: So what is a revocable trust, Austin?
• 24:55
  Track 1: Okay.
• 24:56
  austin_1_04-18-2024_135316: a trust that you make where you can revoke it later or change it.
• 25:01
  Track 1: Austin always just knocks these out of the park.
• 25:04
  Track 1: All right.
• 25:05
  Track 1: it allows the grantor, the person who made the trust to make changes or terminate the trust.
• 25:11
  Track 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 25:15
  Track 1: Um, so suppose it advantages of a living and these are also known as living trust.
• 25:23
  Track 1: So suppose it advantages of living trust.
• 25:26
  Track 1: It avoids the probate court, which again is not that big a deal because in Texas you can get a probate done in about 60 days, but that's how they sell them to you.
• 25:34
  Track 1: avoid complex probate.
• 25:36
  Track 1: they tell you that it helps with privacy.
• 25:39
  Track 1: You don't want a wills or public records.
• 25:41
  Track 1: You don't want all of your business out there in the public records.
• 25:44
  Track 1: except nowadays in Texas, you can do an affidavit in lieu of inventory.
• 25:48
  Track 1: So no one can really see everything that you have.
• 25:51
  Track 1: There's not a lot of publicity of your personal affairs in the public records.
• 25:56
  Track 1: and they tell you, oh, it gives you the ability to plan for incapacity.
• 25:59
  Track 1: Yeah, guess, except you can really do that with a medical power of attorney and a durable power of attorney.
• 26:05
  Track 1: So I'm not sure that it does anything for you there.
• 26:08
  Track 1: So here's the rant about revocable trust, though.
• 26:13
  Track 1: You probably don't need them, and it's just been a huge moneymaker for these services, and a lot of attorneys out there.
• 26:19
  Track 1: When I was in college, I worked for this one law firm up in Austin, and the whole shtick, and I, I'm going to try to not incriminate myself.
• 26:27
  Track 1: I want to let everyone know.
• 26:28
  Track 1: when I was in college, it was just a college kid and I wanted a job and I thought I might want to be a lawyer.
• 26:34
  Track 1: And their whole shtick was the owner would go around to these retirement homes and sell.
• 26:44
  Track 1: The revocable trust and the poor over will and all these other documents to all these old people who just wanted somebody to talk to and at that time he was selling it for 5, 000 and that was a long time ago.
• 26:56
  Track 1: So now if he's still doing, he's probably going around, get 10 grand and these old people did not need any of that.
• 27:03
  Track 1: So I want to highlight just how crooked this is.
• 27:07
  Track 1: the FTC, the Federal Trade Commission and several attorney generals and I think ARP as well, and there's now a consumer alert about this, put out some statements about just how crooked this is
• 27:20
  austin_1_04-18-2024_135316: Oh, do you really want your, your son and daughter to have to pay this huge amount of money and all of this deal with your assets after you, do you want to be a burden to them?
• 27:29
  austin_1_04-18-2024_135316: It's always that kind of stuff.
• 27:30
  austin_1_04-18-2024_135316: And it's completely false.
• 27:32
  austin_1_04-18-2024_135316: They just don't need it.
• 27:33
  austin_1_04-18-2024_135316: All they need is a will.
• 27:35
  Track 1: they're preying on elderly people.
• 27:37
  Track 1: if you don't believe me, just Google living trust scams, you will see the FTC statements.
• 27:44
  Track 1: You'll see several attorney general statements about this kind of selling these overpriced estate plane docs that people don't need.
• 27:54
  austin_1_04-18-2024_135316: Goodman in Breaking Bad, he started off doing elder law and even he didn't do that.
• 28:00
  austin_1_04-18-2024_135316: He told them they just needed the will in that show.
• 28:02
  austin_1_04-18-2024_135316: So these people are worse than one of the most crooked lawyers on television history.
• 28:07
  austin_1_04-18-2024_135316: It's really sad.
• 28:10
  Track 1: I'm gonna go back and I'm gonna go watch that episode now.
• 28:13
  Track 1: I can't believe that the Living Trust was even beneath Saul Goodman.
• 28:20
  Track 1: these things are terrible for many reasons.
• 28:23
  Track 1: you have to remember, if you're gonna have one, you have to remember to put every single asset in probate.
• 28:28
  Track 1: Which just never happens.
• 28:29
  Track 1: you have this REV trust, this living trust, and mom and dad, they have to put their house in it.
• 28:34
  Track 1: They really should put their cars in it.
• 28:36
  Track 1: Their bank account should be styled in the name of the trust, or they should at least have beneficiary designations on the bank accounts that name the trust.
• 28:45
  Track 1: And mom and dad, without fail, I don't think we've ever had one.
• 28:49
  Track 1: where they have remembered to put every single asset for the rest of their lives in this trust.
• 28:54
  Track 1: So when they come to us, the kids are like, Oh, mom and dad had a trust.
• 28:57
  Track 1: We have to bad news to them.
• 28:58
  Track 1: Well, they forgot to really fund the trust.
• 29:00
  Track 1: So now we're going to have to probate this thing called the pour over will anyway.
• 29:04
  Track 1: So we're now we're probating the will so everything can get into the trust so we can administer the trust.
• 29:10
  Track 1: So that it never works for that reason.
• 29:14
  Track 1: And many of them don't even realize you actually have to change title to everything.
• 29:18
  Track 1: They just leave the real estate in their personal names thinking the trust automatically inherits or encompasses all these assets they have.
• 29:27
  austin_1_04-18-2024_135316: even know that.
• 29:27
  austin_1_04-18-2024_135316: That's all, that's the responsibility of a lawyer who said of this,
• 29:31
  Track 1: And it's not just lawyers, There are a lot of these services out there that are preying upon these people.
• 29:35
  Track 1: And living trusts are not cheaper.
• 29:38
  Track 1: You've got probably five to 10, 000 in legal fees from these services or lawyers to set them up.
• 29:44
  Track 1: you can average 500 a deed to transfer the real estate into the trust.
• 29:49
  Track 1: And, legal fees again to do a probate probably around three grand takes 60 days.
• 29:54
  Track 1: So you're a lot less and you're not having to administer the trust.
• 29:58
  Track 1: for the rest of your life and pay legal fees when you want to make changes.
• 30:01
  Track 1: So these things are just awful deals.
• 30:05
  Track 1: And I'm glad the government, I'm glad the attorney general, I'm glad the FTC finally put out some, documentation on how crooked these things are.
• 30:13
  Track 1: But Austin, there is the Susie Orman factor.
• 30:17
  Track 1: Did you know who Susie Orman was before the show?
• 30:21
  Track 1: Okay, well, Susie Orman is a well known TV personality.
• 30:26
  Track 1: And you probably don't know who Susie Orman is because I would guess that her target audience is like a middle aged woman or maybe, I think I am officially middle aged now.
• 30:35
  Track 1: So her target audience is probably someone a little bit older than me who watches local news and things like that.
• 30:43
  Track 1: and she was a well known TV personality for many years.
• 30:46
  Track 1: I think she still is.
• 30:48
  Track 1: But if someone comes to us and they've been brainwashed by Susie Orman into believing they absolutely need a living trust, we will do everything in our power to disabuse them of that notion.
• 31:01
  Track 1: But sometimes we cannot.
• 31:03
  Track 1: And I was curious, so I googled Susie Orman and I found this from her website.
• 31:08
  Track 1: Austin, do you have that quote there from Susie
• 31:10
  austin_1_04-18-2024_135316: I
• 31:11
  Track 1: Orman's website?
• 31:12
  austin_1_04-18-2024_135316: on my women and money podcast, having a revocable trust in place is one of the most important things you can do to protect yourself and your family.
• 31:19
  austin_1_04-18-2024_135316: So many of you still don't have one.
• 31:20
  austin_1_04-18-2024_135316: And I have to be honest, it makes me a little bit nuts,
• 31:23
  Track 1: That's from July 7th, 2023.
• 31:26
  Track 1: Susie, if you're out there listening to this podcast, you drive me nuts.
• 31:32
  Track 1: and I cannot believe you are still spewing.
• 31:35
  Track 1: This absolute filth and these lies.
• 31:39
  Track 1: So her lawyers are listening.
• 31:41
  Track 1: She probably has some very fancy lawyers and they're now taking notes on how they can sue me for slander and defamation and business disbursement.
• 31:49
  Track 1: let me lay down the gauntlet.
• 31:50
  Track 1: If you're listening to this, go ahead and come for me.
• 31:52
  Track 1: You know where to find me.
• 31:54
  Track 1: I'm down here in Texas.
• 31:55
  Track 1: Phil Silberman is a Silberman law firm.
• 31:57
  austin_1_04-18-2024_135316: fun.
• 31:59
  Track 1: we're going to get one here.
• 32:00
  Track 1: I it's only a matter of time before we get the letter from Susie Orman's lawyers.
• 32:04
  Track 1: But nonetheless, look, if you're convinced that Susie Orman is right and she wants you to do this trust, we will draw those documents up if you absolutely have to have a living trust.
• 32:15
  Track 1: we will review her documents that she has sold you.
• 32:19
  Track 1: We will do the best we can to.
• 32:21
  Track 1: gets you squared away.
• 32:23
  Track 1: We don't want to turn away the business, but, and hear me on this, as this big, but you will get a nasty disclaimer email from us saying that we have told you, you didn't need any of this and you just needed a simple will and some powers of attorneys.
• 32:38
  Track 1: But despite, our begging and our pleading with you, you've chosen not to follow our advice.
• 32:44
  Track 1: and we'll go ahead and do what you want us to do.
• 32:47
  Track 1: at that point we've done everything we can ethically that I feel pretty good about that decision.
• 32:52
  Track 1: But Susie Orman, shame on you.
• 32:55
  Track 1: if you've, given these people the Susie Orman Kool Aid and they've drank it You don't need this people.
• 33:02
  Track 1: All right.
• 33:03
  Track 1: Now I'm fired up and that means, when I get fired up, that's time for the show to come to a close because I'm scared of what I might say next.
• 33:10
  Track 1: I've been your host, Phil Silverman.
• 33:12
  Track 1: Austin Black has been my co host.
• 33:14
  Track 1: Like us, follow us, review us wherever you listen to your podcasts.
• 33:19
  Track 1: If you have a legal question, go ahead and email us info@sillawfirm.com.
• 33:24
  Track 1: I nfo at SIL SILB law firm.com.
• 33:28
  Track 1: Say you want that question answered publicly in the podcast.
• 33:32
  Track 1: Thanks everybody for listening.
• 33:33
  Track 1: Have a great day.