Latest / Roam Alone / After the Loss: Solo Van Life, Grief, and the Nomad Widows

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After the Loss: Solo Van Life, Grief, and the Nomad Widows · Roam Alone

• 0:01
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome to Rome Alone, the podcast for those who travel solo.
• 0:06
  SPEAKER_00: By choice or by circumstance.
• 0:08
  SPEAKER_00: I'm your host, Teresa Stevens.
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_00: Today's guests never planned to be on the road alone.
• 0:13
  SPEAKER_00: For almost eight years, Lori and her partner Chad planned a life in a van, selling their things, chasing open roads across the Pacific Northwest, Arizona, New Mexico.
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_00: Five months in, Chad died of a heart attack, and Lori was left to decide what came next.
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_00: A year later, she's still on the road.
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_00: She's found new friends, a few unexplainable synchronicities, and a community of women she calls Nomad Widows.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_00: This is a personal conversation, and Lori shares it with remarkable honesty.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_00: Let's get into it.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_00: So my guest today is Lori Mills.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome to the show, Lori.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_00: I'm so glad you're on today.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_00: Well, thank you for having me.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_00: And I do appreciate because the subject that we're talking about today, I know it's been a difficult one.
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_00: You've you've had a difficult time for a bit, and I really appreciate you coming on to talk about everything that you've been through and how you are moving forward with this amazing solo adventure.
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_00: And I want to get all the details about what you're into and what the future holds.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_00: But before that, if you can give us a little background on where you and your partner are from and how you came to have this pretty original dream for a nomadic adventure.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_00: What started it all?
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_01: Sure.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_01: Well, my partner Chad and I were living in Houston.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_01: And when we met, he already had this dream that he was going to go hit the road after his only child graduated high school.
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_01: And when we met, I had three kids still at home.
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_01: So he ended up waiting an extra eight years to do this with me.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_00: He must have loved you a lot to put off his adventure for eight years.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_01: He did.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_01: But we we did make the most of those eight years with planning.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_01: You know, we enjoyed the anticipation of it.
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_01: And oh yeah, we sort of had some trial runs with road trips.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_01: Our very first one was to Big Ben National Park in West Texas.
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_01: And that became a favorite.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_01: We went back probably five times.
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, but that first year, it was hilarious because we took a tent and his Volkswagen golf, and he had an old mattress that he would fold like a taco and stick in the back of his car because he knew that I would be a much happier camper if I had a real bed to sleep on.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so that was his old Burning Man mattress.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_01: He had gone the Burning Man for 14 years before we got together, and he learned that creature comforts are important.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_01: We didn't use a sleeping bag, we had a regular comforter, throw pillows, all the things.
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_01: With each trip, we dialed it up a little bit.
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_01: I bought a minivan and he threw the mattress in the back of the minivan and turned it into a camper.
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_01: And then each trip, he would add a little more.
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_01: So he built a wooden platform and then storage and then raised the platform and added more little, you know, niceties.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_01: But we always had string lights and those fun things.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_01: The road trips got longer.
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_01: So we loved the southwest and we made a number of trips to Tucson that became one of our favorite places, and New Mexico and Colorado, and eventually all the way out to Death Valley.
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_01: It was incredible.
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_01: And we had so much fun every time it was like, oh, we have to go back.
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_01: So we got more and more excited about planning the big trip.
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_01: And it's pretty crazy how two people can be in a minivan for that long and still want to keep doing it.
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_00: And still stay together.
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_00: That's gotta be the big thing.
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_00: Still like each other, still talking at the end of it.
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, we were both passionate about it.
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_01: And in fact, we both ended up getting part-time jobs in outdoor retailers.
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_01: He worked part-time at REI.
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_01: He had early retired, but he kind of needed the structure and he enjoyed the health benefits.
• 4:19
  SPEAKER_01: And then after COVID hit, I was ready to stop working from home.
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_01: And I got a job at Whole Earth Provision, which is a small outdoor retailer in Texas.
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_01: And we both just loved it.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_01: So we learned all about the gear and got great discounts.
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I learned a lot.
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_00: So when you decided to finally go for it for this big trip, was after your kids had graduated as well?
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_01: As soon as I took my son, the last of three, off to college, I went home and started repainting his room.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_01: And we were downsizing, getting ready to put things in storage.
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_01: And so yeah, that was the plan.
• 4:57
  SPEAKER_01: We were going to shed everything that we didn't want to put in storage, sell the house and hit the road.
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_01: And yeah, so the house closed on May 1st of 2025.
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_01: And on the second, we actually flew to Mexico for a week because we needed time to recuperate from all of the all of the moving and packing.
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_01: And honestly, I also wanted my friends and family to like rest assured we weren't like going like we weren't homeless by you know necessity.
• 5:28
  SPEAKER_01: And yeah, we were home free, as I called it.
• 5:31
  SPEAKER_01: We were home free.
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_00: I love that.
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_00: That's a great way to look at it for sure.
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_00: So you head off, you're in Houston.
• 5:39
  SPEAKER_00: Tell me about those first five months, where you went, how it was, how you felt without a home, like a permanent structure, but a like a moving home, basically.
• 5:51
  SPEAKER_00: Or those first five months like it was amazing.
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_01: Um, he would say he would have said, Every day was the best day ever.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_01: Wake up and look out the window and see an incredible landscape, whether it's hoodoos or canyons, forests, and alpine lakes, mountains.
• 6:07
  SPEAKER_01: It was awesome.
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_01: And we would look at each other almost daily and say, Can you believe we actually pulled it off?
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_01: Like we're doing this.
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_01: We actually did it.
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_01: That was amazing.
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_01: And he would say sometimes, I'm the luckiest mother plucker in the whole wide world.
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_01: Only he didn't say plucker.
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_01: He didn't say plucker.
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_00: I appreciate that.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_00: I appreciate the change there.
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_00: Did you have an idea of where you wanted to go, or was it literally seat of your pants?
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, it was a little bit of both.
• 6:37
  SPEAKER_01: So he loved using the big National Geographic Adventure Edition Road Alice.
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_01: And so we used that to look at all of the public lands in the national parks.
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_01: And so we planned our route to be able to hit as many national parks as possible.
• 6:51
  SPEAKER_01: And so those were our those were our anchor points.
• 6:55
  SPEAKER_01: And we added the national monuments and state parks, and we did boondocking as well, which is dry camping on public land, usually.
• 7:03
  SPEAKER_01: We always stayed in one truck stop, I'm proud to say.
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_01: So it was it was incredible.
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, I guess most people would refer to it as van life.
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_01: We didn't think of it that way.
• 7:13
  SPEAKER_01: It was really just a big road trip because the van was the vehicle to go to the places to get out of the van.
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_01: It was really more like our tent.
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 7:23
  SPEAKER_00: I get that.
• 7:23
  SPEAKER_00: I get that.
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_00: How did it feel being, for lack of a better word, unloored without that permanent home?
• 7:31
  SPEAKER_00: How did how did you handle it?
• 7:33
  SPEAKER_01: It was freedom.
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 7:35
  SPEAKER_01: It was, it was absolute freedom.
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_01: Now we would have resupply days, which we would take in cute little towns like Moab and find a cute vintage motel and have some creature comforts and stock up on things.
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_01: We also did get a couple of Airbnbs in Washington because my son's in college in Walla Walla.
• 7:53
  SPEAKER_01: So he joined us in Seattle and uh on Bashon Island.
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, so we we had a little bit of regular life.
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_01: And the whole goal was to decide where we wanted to live and we wanted to try different environmental geographies and figure that out.
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_01: I think he started to get a little more ready to settle and decide on a place.
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_01: I could have kept going like forever.
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_01: But I was, I was also happy.
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_01: I was happy to also figure out a permanent home.
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_01: And he was leaning towards um northern New Mexico so we would have access to the four corners.
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_01: And I kind of fell in love with the Pacific Northwest.
• 8:35
  SPEAKER_01: So he didn't want to be anywhere it got super cold and you know, kind of gray.
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, we knew that it was going to be a finite period of time and not endless.
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_01: And so that didn't make it quite so scary.
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 8:52
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 8:52
  SPEAKER_00: What do you treasure most about that time when you think about those first five months?
• 8:56
  SPEAKER_00: Oh.
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_01: How in love he fell he fell so in love with the geology of every landscape.
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_01: He was like a kid in a candy store every time we would pull into a new national monument or a park and get so excited.
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_01: And so our main activity was hiking.
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_01: And my personal main activity was taking pictures of him getting excited about the geology because it was just so cute.
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_01: Not having cell service or TVs everywhere.
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_01: We read a lot more books and he really dug into you know, books about geology and the and the earth.
• 9:39
  SPEAKER_01: And that was neat because back home we had so many distractions.
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_01: And we did download some David Attenborough documentaries onto my laptop.
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_01: So at night, after we, you know, looked at the stars, sometimes we would tuck in and watch those, and that was a lot of fun.
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, that's amazing.
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_00: So then after about five months of being on the road, everything changed.
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_00: Can you walk me through those moments?
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_00: And if you can, tell me how you dealt with what happened.
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_00: And so far from so far from home and family and friends.
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, that was absolutely the worst day of my life.
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_01: Um, we had just come from Page, Arizona, and we arrived at a campground in Cottonwood, which is not too far from Sedona.
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_01: And we pulled into the campground and got set up.
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_01: I climbed into the back of the van to take a nap.
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_01: And he told me, I'm gonna go climb this ridge over here and poke around and see what's up.
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_01: I was just dead asleep.
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_01: And then I heard him stumbling back to the van.
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_01: And I really thought he had fallen because his face was really scraped up and he was delirious.
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_01: I thought he he tripped and has a concussion.
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_01: So I got him into the van and I just drove him to the nearest hospital, which was luckily only nine minutes away.
• 11:05
  SPEAKER_01: I was really shocked when they said he's having a heart attack.
• 11:08
  SPEAKER_00: Wow.
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_01: And I can't imagine if he hadn't been able to make his way back to the van, I could have been asleep for hours and not known where he was or what happened.
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_01: He would have been all alone.
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_01: So it was amazing.
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_01: He made it back.
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_01: He was a strong guy.
• 11:21
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 11:21
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_01: And he was he was so delirious he didn't really know what was going on.
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_01: But they they were trying to sedate him so they could put him on a flight to Flagstaff to a hospital that had like what he needed.
• 11:37
  SPEAKER_01: And so before they did that, he did have like a just a moment of clarity where he looked at me and he said, I love you.
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_01: Oh gosh.
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_00: I'm so glad you had that one moment though that he saw you.
• 11:49
  SPEAKER_02: Yep, yeah.
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_02: And after that, I was just sitting outside the room listening to them try to save him.
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_01: And so he didn't get to make it to the transport.
• 11:59
  SPEAKER_01: All the while I'm trying to text family and friends and just like in shock and unable to even use my phone.
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_01: And they they had a volunteer from the hospital look to sit with me.
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, that's nice.
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_02: But after a while, you know, I was alone.
• 12:15
  unknown: Yeah.
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_00: All alone.
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_00: All alone.
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_00: Gosh, I can't even imagine you having to go through this.
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_00: When you're so far from home and so far from family and your kids.
• 12:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_00: And his kids.
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_00: Oh my goodness.
• 12:29
  unknown: Yeah.
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_01: His kids.
• 12:31
  SPEAKER_01: And so, you know, everyone was wanting to fly in that night, but it was pretty impossible to get there and you know, in any reasonable amount of time.
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_01: So they were encouraging me to, you know, like, where are you going to go?
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_01: And it's like, well, I've got to go back to the campground.
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_01: Like, the van is home.
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_01: And I couldn't imagine going to a hotel and dealing with a desk clerk.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_01: So uh the van was actually like the best place because I could just cry and I was, you know, it's right next to the connection to Chad.
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_00: That was the place where you all were so happy for so long.
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_00: And dreamed up for so long.
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_00: It was, it seemed like the perfect place to go to.
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_02: But you know, having that empty spot.
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_01: So I I don't know that I slept.
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_01: It was actually really nice in the morning.
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_01: The only or the very first phone call I got at like 5 a.m.
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_02: was my ex-husband.
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_02: He was so kind.
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_02: Oh.
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_02: You know, because he was the only other person who knew me as well.
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm I'm really thankful for that.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_02: That's amazing that he called you.
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_01: So then in the morning, you know, I had to get up and do the regular routine, go to the campground bathroom.
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_01: I couldn't even recognize my face in the mirror.
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_01: Actually, yeah, I took a I took a picture of it that day because I never wanted to forget just like the lowest of lows.
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_01: It sounds really bizarre.
• 13:51
  SPEAKER_01: And I don't know why I did it, but it seemed important at the time.
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_02: And then I got back to the van and I could hear his voice like guiding me.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_02: Don't forget the solar panel.
• 14:01
  SPEAKER_02: Make sure the water cube nozzle is closed.
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_00: And your body was probably just on automatic pilot and listening and going into that routine of taking care of the van and going through those motions that you won't you two always did together.
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_00: And that probably helped and soothed you a lot to go through those motions and not to think so much.
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_01: And then the strangest thing happened as I was pulling out to exit, I was stuck behind a woman pulling an airstream trailer, and she stopped to dump some garbage in the dumpster.
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_01: And for whatever reason, I asked her, Are you alone?
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_01: And she said, Yeah, I'm part of an Airstream club.
• 14:39
  SPEAKER_01: And I just got this like sensation, this like weird inner knowing of I could do this.
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_01: Wow, I can do.
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_01: And she just gave me strength.
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_01: And that was like the first of a series of what I call guides.
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I suddenly became more attuned to my environment and to the connections all around.
• 15:00
  unknown: Yeah.
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I it was it was just one of those things.
• 15:03
  SPEAKER_01: And I I'm really thankful that if it had to happen, that it happened when I was already on the road because it forced me to get up and keep moving forward, literally in space and time.
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_01: And I couldn't hide under the covers.
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_01: I couldn't hide from the world.
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_01: I just had to get up and get out there and just keep going.
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_01: You were honoring Teddy.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_01: He would have been pissed off if I had just like quit.
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_01: He would have been really pissed off.
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_02: Like, didn't I teach you anything?
• 15:33
  SPEAKER_02: Did I teach you anything?
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_02: Um exactly.
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_01: So later that night, his daughter Elizabeth and her boyfriend Leo flew in from New York and they joined me in Prescott Valley to take care of the arrangements.
• 15:47
  SPEAKER_01: And that took a few days.
• 15:49
  SPEAKER_01: And yeah, he and I had planned to go to Sedona the following day.
• 15:53
  SPEAKER_01: So I took them and let them see a little bit of what you know her dad had been doing.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_01: It was so cute.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_02: She wore his she wore his hiker's hat.
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_01: Oh my gosh.
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_01: Which was way too big for her.
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_02: It was so cute.
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_01: And and he had never been to the desert before.
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_01: So it was really special.
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_01: And and after they went back, I arranged for my middle child, my daughter Sidney, to fly to Tucson.
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_01: Tucson, again, was like one of our favorite places.
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_01: I picked her up and we stayed a couple of days there.
• 16:25
  SPEAKER_01: And then she joined me on the road trip back to Texas.
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_01: And we stopped at some of our favorite things, like our favorite sunset spot at Geats Pass to, you know, around Suarrows.
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_01: And then we went to White Sands National Monument.
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_01: And there it was so wild.
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_01: We were walking the sand dunes and we saw a message somebody had written with a stick that said, keep moving forward.
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_00: Oh wow.
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_00: If that's not telling, I don't know what is.
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_01: Oh my goodness.
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_01: So there were so many different synchronicities along that road trip.
• 16:58
  SPEAKER_01: It was, yeah.
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_01: I was never like very woo before, but this trip kind of changed me.
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_01: And now I'm much more attuned to the the inner knowing and you know receiving messages from the universe or or whatever, but I'll take it.
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_01: I'll take it.
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 17:18
  SPEAKER_00: So you took about five months to regroup.
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_00: You stayed with a friend.
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_00: What was that time like for you?
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_01: I often say, I feel like the universe was trying to balance the scales after the injury it inflicted.
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so I could not have asked for a softer landing.
• 17:35
  SPEAKER_01: My friend Tracy, who had actually come with one of her adult sons to visit us while we were in Colorado, we rented a little cabin for a few days.
• 17:44
  SPEAKER_01: She happened to be moving into a duplex November 1st.
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_01: He died on October 15th.
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_01: And she was moving November 1st into this duplex, which adjoined her friend's unit.
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_01: And so she was moving next to a friend, and she was getting a puppy as well.
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_01: And she said, Come stay with me, take the extra room.
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_01: And I immediately said, Yes.
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_01: And it was the kind of situation that single women dream about, fantasize about, like living with friends.
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_01: We had a shared backyard, and the dogs would run back and forth between the doggy doors, and we would have morning coffee or dinner on the patio.
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_01: We started a monthly journaling evening and a monthly crafter noon where we would take turns leading an art project.
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_01: I could not have asked for a more perfect landing pad.
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_01: And it's right next to Rice University with a three-mile loop around the school.
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_01: So I would go every day and walk or jog and just let the tears just come.
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely.
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_00: You felt it, you were feeling it, and you weren't trying to blow past it or get over it.
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_00: You were just in the moment and feeling it and recovering, basically.
• 18:55
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_01: And what I learned was movement was really helpful for my nervous system.
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_00: So the van that you had, you kept it.
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah.
• 19:05
  SPEAKER_00: Did you ever have any doubt about selling it, getting a house, or continuing on the road?
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_00: Was that always you were just gonna keep going?
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, no doubt.
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_01: I knew like my first day there, I I probably told Tracy, yeah, um, I'm I'm going to get back out there.
• 19:23
  SPEAKER_01: And I don't think anyone was really surprised.
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_01: It just oddly felt like, of course I am.
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_01: He would be mad.
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_01: And it was also for me, like, why would I go back to the place where we had wanted to leave and just sit there and be sad?
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_01: And I had everything in storage.
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_01: And if there's ever a time to go explore and to figure this stuff out, it's when you already have everything in storage.
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_01: But I did have to deal with a storage unit.
• 19:50
  SPEAKER_01: It was 300 square feet, jam-packed.
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_01: It was awful.
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 19:59
  SPEAKER_01: But uh his daughter came down and she helped go through his things.
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_01: And I downsized further to be able to get into a smaller unit.
• 20:07
  SPEAKER_01: And he he was, we're both artists, and he had so much art.
• 20:11
  SPEAKER_01: And he never tried to sell it.
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_01: He was always giving it away.
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_01: And when I was driving to Tucson to pick up Sydney, I had an epiphany of like how to celebrate his life.
• 20:20
  SPEAKER_01: And it was like, oh yeah, duh, have a big art show and let his friends and family take the art.
• 20:27
  SPEAKER_01: And so it came together so easily.
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_01: He did this cute little thing where he would print flyers that said, Take what you need.
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_01: And at the bottom, the little tear-off strips would say, courage, love, hope, happiness, laughter, all those sweet things.
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_01: And so I named the show Take What You Need.
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_01: And everyone just took the art off the walls.
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_01: And everyone was so it was a huge success.
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_01: They were so amazed at how much he had done and so happy that they got to take a piece of it home with them.
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_01: So I created a huge flyer as the show poster that said, take what you need.
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_01: It was like a big giant version of what he did.
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_01: And in Houston, I had curated a small gallery.
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so the owners were so kind and they let me use the space.
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_01: And it was I I had never seen it so packed.
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_01: It was it was amazing.
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_01: Laura, what an incredible tribute to him.
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_01: Oh my goodness.
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_01: It was really cathartic for me to spend my time doing that and going through his art and and honoring him that way.
• 21:31
  SPEAKER_01: And he, oh, he would have been so happy to see everybody doing that.
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_00: And a healing thing for them to be able to have something that he created forever.
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_00: What a gift.
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_00: What a gift to to yourself and to Chav and to everybody who cared about both of you.
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_00: So now you've decided to go back out on the road, but this time alone, correct?
• 21:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_00: How did that feel?
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_01: It felt great.
• 21:59
  SPEAKER_01: I I knew that it would look different.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_01: And I was going to sort of model it on what he and I had talked about.
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_01: We talked about returning in 2026, but doing it slightly differently, going back to the places that we really enjoyed the most, spending more time there and combining it with some longer-term rentals or uh pet sits through trusted hosteter.
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_01: And so what I did was I planned to do a lot of pet sitting with camping in between.
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so I would have more home bases and wouldn't be alone in the campgrounds all the time.
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_01: And I started with five pet sits I arranged in advance.
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_01: Once you get that first one, it's much easier.
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_01: And as of now, I've done 16.
• 22:47
  SPEAKER_01: So it was really it was really easy to get more along the way.
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_01: And in the pet sits, you know, you're in the neighborhoods and you're living like a local.
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_01: And so I've been able to make so many friends along the way as a result.
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_00: What a great idea.
• 23:02
  SPEAKER_00: It gives you a built-in way to connect with people and to see all these new cities or towns, neighborhoods.
• 23:09
  SPEAKER_00: As you set out to do this alone now instead of with your partner, were there doubts, were there fears that you faced before you set off?
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_01: No.
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_00: Um, there wasn't.
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_00: No, there wasn't.
• 23:24
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe it was just good, maybe it was just the the trauma that was like, well, the worst thing has already happened to me.
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_01: How bad could it be?
• 23:32
  SPEAKER_01: And when you're out there and you're just surrounded by all of these awesome landscapes, you just, you know, you're so filled with all the beauty, it's a bit distracting.
• 23:42
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't have I didn't have any fear.
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_01: I was really um pretty sure I that I was doing it the right way.
• 23:49
  SPEAKER_01: And I and I think I did, I nailed it.
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_01: I could not have designed it any better than I did.
• 23:55
  SPEAKER_01: Uh and I got really lucky.
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know if it's luck, but it worked out.
• 23:59
  SPEAKER_01: So my very first pet sit in Portland, I landed in a co-housing community, which is fascinating.
• 24:05
  SPEAKER_01: And they had a little happy hour scheduled.
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_01: And at that happy hour, there was a woman talking about her upcoming sabbatical, and she mentioned her converted minivan.
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_01: And it was like, wait, what?
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_01: Immediately was like, Okay, van sister.
• 24:21
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_01: And she just so happened to like rent out her spare room to travelers like myself.
• 24:27
  SPEAKER_01: There was another pet sitter staying there as well.
• 24:29
  SPEAKER_01: And so that became my layover spot between pet sits.
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_01: I could just always go back and have built-in friend group.
• 24:35
  SPEAKER_01: It yes, yeah.
• 24:37
  SPEAKER_01: It was fantastic.
• 24:39
  SPEAKER_01: It was amazing.
• 24:40
  SPEAKER_00: When we first connected, you would mention that during these the time that you've been alone traveling, that you never felt so alive and so confident.
• 24:50
  SPEAKER_00: What shifted in you?
• 24:51
  SPEAKER_00: What brought about that feeling now, as opposed to when you were traveling with Chad?
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_01: Well, because I got married really young at age 23, and then Chad and I started our relationship really soon after the divorce.
• 25:05
  SPEAKER_01: It's the first time I've been autonomous and being able to make my decisions and decide where to go when, what I wanted to eat, the music, everything.
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_01: And that was pretty invigorating.
• 25:16
  SPEAKER_01: Um, of course, I would trade it all in this heartbeat to have him back.
• 25:20
  SPEAKER_01: So the little wins, like every single day is a win.
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_01: Like I did it.
• 25:25
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and the problem solving is huge.
• 25:28
  SPEAKER_01: Like, oh, my battery died.
• 25:30
  SPEAKER_01: I got it started.
• 25:31
  SPEAKER_01: Or you turn a bend and there's Mount Hood just staring at you on the horizon.
• 25:37
  SPEAKER_01: And it's like, wow, this is exactly why I'm doing this.
• 25:41
  SPEAKER_01: I call that mountain my boyfriend.
• 25:43
  SPEAKER_01: That mountain is my boyfriend.
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_01: I'm so excited to see it.
• 25:46
  SPEAKER_00: I've never been, I've never been of all places, I've never been Pacific Northwest at all.
• 25:52
  SPEAKER_00: I'm dying to go.
• 25:53
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you gotta see it.
• 25:55
  SPEAKER_01: It is unbelievable.
• 25:57
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, it just builds confidence and having the competence to do this thing on the road.
• 26:02
  SPEAKER_01: And my word for the year is courage.
• 26:05
  SPEAKER_01: Back at the duplex, we did this thing at the new year.
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_01: Like, what's your guiding principle?
• 26:10
  SPEAKER_01: And mine this year is courage.
• 26:11
  SPEAKER_01: So when my friends drag me into the cold alpine lakes, it's like, okay, courage, and then jump in.
• 26:19
  SPEAKER_00: Well, if you have it in spades, that's for sure.
• 26:21
  SPEAKER_00: That's for sure.
• 26:23
  SPEAKER_00: You mentioned a term to me that I'd never heard, and I don't know if it's if it's a well-known term or it's something you just threw out there, but I'm stealing it by the way, called nomadic widows.
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_00: And that you've met these nomadic widows during your travels.
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_00: What is a nomadic widow?
• 26:41
  SPEAKER_00: And how did you did you find each other?
• 26:43
  SPEAKER_00: What do you share that other travelers that you may not have in common with other travelers?
• 26:49
  SPEAKER_00: I know there's an obvious answer here, but sure.
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_01: Well, the first one I met, and they're not quite nomadic yet, they would say they would call themselves part-time nomads.
• 26:58
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so that works too.
• 27:00
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 27:00
  SPEAKER_01: So there is a festival called the Northwest Nomads Festival.
• 27:05
  SPEAKER_01: And I heard about that through a Van Life Campground.
• 27:08
  SPEAKER_01: And the Van Life Campground is set up for nomads.
• 27:11
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, you have a place where you can park your rig and amenities like Wi-Fi and showers and game night, movie night, and a common uh fire pit.
• 27:21
  SPEAKER_01: So you have built-in community.
• 27:23
  SPEAKER_01: When I first went to that fire and I sat down, someone said, Welcome home.
• 27:29
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, wow.
• 27:30
  SPEAKER_01: And I almost cried because you're surrounded by people like yourself.
• 27:35
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 27:36
  SPEAKER_01: And so when I found out about the festival, I signed up and I was standing in an extraordinarily long taco wine and started talking to a woman.
• 27:46
  SPEAKER_01: And turns out she was widowed at a young age.
• 27:50
  SPEAKER_01: And she has a sprinter van.
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_01: Um, she is still working as a nurse, but she is gearing up to go full-time.
• 27:56
  SPEAKER_01: And it was just an immediate bond of like, you know, asking me questions on how, you know, how to do the thing, and I'm looking at her sprinter band and getting ideas.
• 28:07
  SPEAKER_01: That was fantastic.
• 28:09
  SPEAKER_01: And then another one of these weird synchronicities, I was in Bend doing some embroidery and watercolor in a park by the river, and uh, a woman walked by, walking her dog, and we started having a conversation.
• 28:23
  SPEAKER_01: And it turns out she leads journaling workshops at the local bookstore.
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_01: So another friend of mine went, and there was another widow with a converted avian.
• 28:34
  SPEAKER_01: Oh my gosh.
• 28:35
  SPEAKER_01: We made the connection.
• 28:37
  SPEAKER_01: And turns out she had been at that same festival, only I didn't meet her there.
• 28:41
  SPEAKER_01: Out of the way.
• 28:42
  SPEAKER_00: You're getting a lot of signs, a lot of signs for sure.
• 28:46
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 28:47
  SPEAKER_01: And so I think the common thread is we have witnessed firsthand life cut short.
• 28:55
  SPEAKER_01: And there's this urge to go live life and not wait because that's you know, tomorrow's not guaranteed.
• 29:04
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 29:05
  SPEAKER_01: And so you get your priorities in order.
• 29:07
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 29:07
  SPEAKER_01: And I'll and I'll say that um when I was working at the uh at Whole Earth at the outdoor retailer, the happiest customers that came in were doing this life.
• 29:17
  SPEAKER_01: They were, they were the the van lifers, the full-time nomads.
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_01: And there was an elderly couple that came in and they had an RV.
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_01: And the man talked about their plans.
• 29:26
  SPEAKER_01: And I told him how we were planning on this trip.
• 29:29
  SPEAKER_01: And he looked at me and said, Don't wait.
• 29:32
  SPEAKER_01: Do it as soon as you can.
• 29:33
  SPEAKER_01: And I could just see in his eyes like just that wish that he had been able to start sooner.
• 29:38
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 29:39
  SPEAKER_00: You just don't know.
• 29:41
  SPEAKER_00: Just don't know.
• 29:41
  SPEAKER_00: And you, of course, know that better than anybody right now, because we're going on in about a year now, correct?
• 29:48
  SPEAKER_01: It'll be a year on the 15th.
• 29:50
  SPEAKER_00: Oh.
• 29:52
  SPEAKER_00: So tell me how you've grown over this last year from leaving Houston together to where you are now alone, but still traveling.
• 30:03
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's um, I've really learned to trust that inner knowing feeling.
• 30:07
  SPEAKER_01: And it's built a lot of confidence that it's worked out so well and that I can make friends wherever I go.
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_01: It's been so fascinating when you put yourself out into interesting places and you're doing interesting things, those people will find you.
• 30:23
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 30:23
  SPEAKER_01: So taking my embroidery to a coffee shop, I'm like, it's crazy how many people will come up and talk to you.
• 30:29
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, but one thing I've learned is don't have earbuds in your ears.
• 30:33
  SPEAKER_01: I use bone conducting headphones and I can't see that my, you know, I've got music playing so that they don't feel like they're disturbing me.
• 30:40
  SPEAKER_01: So make yourself available, you know, take a class.
• 30:43
  SPEAKER_01: I um, you know, I like to say uh hike, yoga, dance.
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_01: I took myself dancing and I met another woman there by herself, and we ended up dancing together all night.
• 30:54
  SPEAKER_01: We've become great friends.
• 30:56
  SPEAKER_01: In fact, I'm recording this with you from her house.
• 30:59
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, that's fantastic.
• 31:00
  SPEAKER_00: Look at you.
• 31:01
  SPEAKER_00: I love that.
• 31:02
  SPEAKER_00: You're I mean, you're just open to whatever experience and people come your way.
• 31:07
  SPEAKER_00: That's really special, and it's not easy to do.
• 31:10
  SPEAKER_01: Actually, kind of a sweet spot in our lives as women at this age where we're becoming empty nesters and we're seeking our peers for support and for a community and to go dancing and to do the things now that we have this, you know, this freedom with the kids going off to school.
• 31:30
  SPEAKER_00: And you mentioned specifically about Gen X women in particular, and that um, you know, because I'm in that age group as well, and kids have grown.
• 31:41
  SPEAKER_00: We're at the point where we may be losing partners.
• 31:44
  SPEAKER_00: And so it's it's it is it's a strong group of women that are leading the charge solo or in charge of their life, maybe for the first time ever, and finally doing the things that they've always wanted to do, never had the courage or the opportunity or the um autonomy to do it themselves, which is pretty it is, and I think what I would tell them is there is life after the loss, and you can be devastated and still feel joy at the same time, and it's a really weird combination.
• 32:19
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you know, when I got home, you know, I could find myself bawling one moment and then you know, the next day wanting to go dance because I wanted to feel alive.
• 32:29
  SPEAKER_01: So, yeah, it's to not feel weird about that.
• 32:32
  SPEAKER_01: There's this whole thing with worrying about how people perceive you and your grief and are they going to judge you for doing it wrong?
• 32:39
  SPEAKER_01: And I was so lucky that Jenny and Tracy, my friends in the duplex, they were just like so supportive of whatever messy state I was in.
• 32:49
  SPEAKER_00: It's you know, I think to be happy or to smile or to forget for just a second what you've just gone through, and that being happy doesn't mean that you're also still not sad and grieving.
• 33:01
  SPEAKER_00: It doesn't erase anything.
• 33:03
  SPEAKER_00: And to give yourself, you know, that space to feel both and sometimes feel both at the same time is pretty amazing.
• 33:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 33:12
  SPEAKER_01: I read somewhere, probably on Instagram, because there are a lot of really good grief accounts.
• 33:17
  SPEAKER_01: Um, that we become museums to the people we have loved and lost.
• 33:22
  SPEAKER_01: And wow, being able to embody the traits that we really miss in them keeps them closer.
• 33:29
  SPEAKER_01: And Chad was a happy guy who loved to dance and to go out and live.
• 33:35
  SPEAKER_01: And so I feel like some of him landed in me, and I just really embody that even more than I ever did.
• 33:43
  SPEAKER_01: And I think he'd be super duper proud.
• 33:46
  SPEAKER_01: So, where are you headed next?
• 33:48
  SPEAKER_01: What does the future look like for you?
• 33:50
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I've kind of learned that as you walk, the path reveals itself.
• 33:56
  SPEAKER_01: And so I'm not planning too far ahead, but I have some intuition of what that will look like.
• 34:02
  SPEAKER_01: I'm starting the trek back to Texas to spend the holidays there.
• 34:06
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm picking up, um, did I mention I'm picking up my daughter in San Francisco and she's riding with me along the coast to LA?
• 34:13
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, yes.
• 34:14
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and I'm I'm so glad because I'll be with her on the anniversary of his death, and we'll actually be staying at the Madonna Inn in California, where he and I once stayed, and that was a really like special place for him.
• 34:26
  SPEAKER_01: I'm really thankful for that.
• 34:28
  SPEAKER_01: And then I'm going to go stay in the Van Life Campground, a Joshua Tree.
• 34:32
  SPEAKER_00: That's nice.
• 34:33
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so that'll be fun.
• 34:35
  SPEAKER_01: And then down through Tucson and Big Bend are, you know, special place, and then back to Houston.
• 34:41
  SPEAKER_01: I think after the new year, when things start to thaw again, I'll set back out.
• 34:46
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 34:46
  SPEAKER_01: I'm striving to achieve a little balance because I'm also an artist and I've been craving more some time to sit long enough to work on some projects.
• 34:56
  SPEAKER_01: And so I'm going to try to treat the longer pets like self-directed residencies in different places.
• 35:04
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, I'll look that.
• 35:05
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 35:06
  SPEAKER_01: I actually applied for a residency in Washington State and I got accepted, but the timeline isn't going to work out season-wise.
• 35:13
  SPEAKER_01: That actually forced me to come up with a coherent artist statement of, you know, concept, and that was really helpful.
• 35:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 35:20
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm looking forward to that.
• 35:22
  SPEAKER_01: But I don't know.
• 35:23
  SPEAKER_01: I'm contemplating walking the Camino next fall with some friends.
• 35:27
  SPEAKER_01: I was a Foreign Exchange student in high school, and I'd like to visit my host sister in France while I'm over in Europe.
• 35:32
  SPEAKER_01: And I can do pets there as well.
• 35:34
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, I'm I'm not making any plans in ink right now that it will all come together just the way this one has.
• 35:42
  SPEAKER_00: It'll all come together for sure.
• 35:44
  SPEAKER_00: Well, it sounds like your future is very bright.
• 35:46
  SPEAKER_00: I'm so happy to hear it for sure.
• 35:49
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 35:49
  SPEAKER_00: It's been such a pleasure talking with you and thank you for your honesty and being, you know, willing to share.
• 35:57
  SPEAKER_00: Because obviously, like you said, you are definitely not alone and need to hear.
• 36:03
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 36:04
  SPEAKER_00: That others have gone through exactly what you've gone through and you've made it through.
• 36:08
  SPEAKER_00: You've honored your partner and you've honored the love and the relationship you had.
• 36:14
  SPEAKER_00: And you've also honored him by continuing on this van journey, this life that you two created together.
• 36:21
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's a beautiful and courageous thing.
• 36:24
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you very much.
• 36:25
  SPEAKER_00: Is there anything that you would like to add before we wrap up?
• 36:28
  SPEAKER_01: I would just encourage people if they have the pull to do this, to do it.
• 36:33
  SPEAKER_01: It's an incredible experience.
• 36:36
  SPEAKER_01: And yeah, it's it's amazing.
• 36:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I can tell.
• 36:41
  SPEAKER_00: I can tell just by looking at you, how just I mean, you know, how happy you seem, how full of joy you seem.
• 36:48
  SPEAKER_00: And and with that, with everything that you've gone through, you know, the excitement that you still have for this life is pretty amazing.
• 36:57
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 36:58
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 36:58
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's hard to beat the beauty of the Pacific Northwest and the nature and the cooler temperatures.
• 37:04
  SPEAKER_01: And yeah, it's pretty great.
• 37:07
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 37:08
  SPEAKER_01: So just do it.
• 37:08
  SPEAKER_01: Give it a try.
• 37:09
  SPEAKER_01: Rent a van.
• 37:11
  SPEAKER_01: You can sleep in the back of your, you know, SUV.
• 37:14
  SPEAKER_01: Um, Jenny, actually, our neighbor, she um, she kind of followed my lead and she took a 30-day road trip in the back of her SUV and car camped uh the same way and just had a blast.
• 37:25
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, that's awesome! Love that.
• 37:28
  SPEAKER_00: Love that so much.
• 37:29
  SPEAKER_00: Lori, thank you so much for being on.
• 37:30
  SPEAKER_00: I really appreciate it.
• 37:32
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you.
• 37:36
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you to Lori for trusting us with her story.
• 37:38
  SPEAKER_00: Her honesty about grief and about choosing to keep moving is a gift.
• 37:43
  SPEAKER_00: If this episode resonated with you, or if you know someone who is navigating loss or starting over, please share it with them.
• 37:51
  SPEAKER_00: And if you're enjoying roam alone, a rating or review always helps other solo travelers find us.
• 37:56
  SPEAKER_00: You can find Lori in all the links in the show notes.
• 37:59
  SPEAKER_00: Until next time, I'm Teresa Stevens.
• 38:02
  SPEAKER_00: Keep roaming.