Latest / Specialty Matcha Podcast / Interview with Cosmic Cultures, Lissi and Zach

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Interview with Cosmic Cultures, Lissi and Zach · Specialty Matcha Podcast

0:05
Hello and welcome to the Specialty Matcha Podcast.
0:07
My name is Ryan. This is Michael Ho Sungjun, who
0:10
also goes by Sam and we're the cofounders of Sanko Matcha
0:13
Products. Yeah.
0:13
We launched this podcast to discuss our learning journey,
0:16
Matcha, share startup stories and interview experts.
0:19
And today we have Lizzie and Zach from Cosmic Matcha joining
0:23
us. Welcome guys.
0:24
How are you guys? Yeah.
0:25
So before we jumping out to all the questions, maybe can you
0:29
guys share a little bit about your personal and your
0:31
professional background? Yeah, so I can definitely start
0:34
personal background real quick. I've always been in health and
0:36
Wellness in some way. So really young.
0:39
Like when I was 19, I was actually a personal trainer at
0:42
Equinox. I, I just like walked in and
0:45
yeah, very young and green and they took a shot on me and I
0:48
stayed there for like 4 years. One of my clients and I actually
0:53
decided to open up at the time. We're in Dallas right now.
0:57
And it was one of the first organic cold press juice bars.
1:02
And we were also doing some other stuff with, we actually
1:04
sold matcha and served matcha. They're totally different
1:07
obviously, than what we're doing now.
1:09
This was 2016, but it was, I guess you could say, the first
1:12
legitimate entry into matcha, not as cosmic cultures.
1:16
So we did that. That lasted quite a while.
1:19
We decided to split ways as partners.
1:21
It's actually where I met Lisi though as a customer so.
1:24
So and I event hospitality background always Intel and
1:28
Wellness to some personally. And when a awesome cold pressed
1:32
juice bar that was actually used organic like fruits and
1:34
vegetables, I was all in like first in line and that's How I
1:38
Met Zach. So that was 2016 and.
1:42
It was kind of towards the end of of that project, or at least
1:45
my, my involvement in the project then yeah, my, my time
1:49
kind of opened up and Lisa and I started started dating soon
1:53
after and just kind of like organically of all that and then
1:57
I. Think the fermentation really
1:59
started because you started what you had always consumed.
2:02
Like fermentation, vegetables wise was at root and.
2:05
Yeah, So that concept, we made and sold fermented vegetables,
2:09
right as among many other menu items, and people really latched
2:13
onto those. Again, this was like 2016.
2:15
Back then, the space was just very different.
2:18
And especially in Texas, it was not like the West Coast where we
2:23
also have roots to the West Coast.
2:25
So just seeing the contrast of what was going on on the West
2:29
Coast and being in Texas really kind of led way to the road that
2:34
we're on now. I mean, this was like obviously
2:36
very beginning origin, but making those fermented
2:38
vegetables there and then meeting Lisi and then kind of
2:42
going down a personal relationship, we're like, you
2:44
know what, why don't we make the fermented vegetables and
2:48
fermented foods a business and start shipping them and selling
2:52
them. And it was, again, no business
2:54
plan. We were just making them, giving
2:56
them to friends. And then people started, we
2:58
created a Shopify store and people started ordering them.
3:03
And then it was like we started getting wholesale requests.
3:06
And we brought Air 1. Way too early like.
3:10
Way too early. We jumped in, somebody gave, I
3:13
don't even know what, his DT. Something the family that owns.
3:17
Family some of our vegetables and they contacted us.
3:21
No, they contacted you. They're not cool.
3:24
We reached out probably like, I don't know, five times and just
3:28
never got a response. And it was like one day I was
3:30
sitting on my computer and it was like, Hey, we want to do a
3:33
purchase order. I don't even know if they tried
3:35
them. They're they're like, we want to
3:37
just put them in all the stores, all the SKU's all at once
3:39
immediately. And we're sitting there like
3:43
halfway running this out of our house still.
3:45
And we're just like, sure, let's go.
3:47
And like, I'm not considering like being food manufacturers or
3:52
or whatever it was. What were the products?
3:55
Was it like things like sauerkraut or was it more
3:58
obscure or? Or like kimchi.
4:01
Or. Yeah.
4:02
So I mean, I feel we did do our version of a kimchi in terms of
4:07
it had gochu garu in it. So it had Korean chili pepper.
4:10
And but if you were talking to a very traditional, you know,
4:14
somebody Korean who consumes or makes kimchi, they would
4:17
probably not consider it kimchi because instead of Napa cabbage,
4:21
we used green cabbage or a mixture.
4:23
So it was like more of a kraut chi, I guess you could say that
4:26
specific one, but we had multiple varieties.
4:30
So we had some that, you know, like with our wild dill crop,
4:34
for example, it had dill and garlic.
4:36
But then we would use some more obscure plants.
4:38
Like there was there's actually a Japanese plant that was in
4:40
there called Ashitaba, which I don't know, people drink it as
4:44
tea and it's called Ashitaba. It's.
4:49
Very earthy. Earthy vegetable.
4:52
It's not, you know, and it's really, it's one of those things
4:55
that I've always been so intrigued by because you'll see
4:58
there's a couple Japanese brands that sell it as steep tea.
5:01
We had a powder which you could whisk it up like matcha, but
5:04
it's not grown like matcha in terms of it's not shaded right.
5:08
And it's, it's not grown. I haven't found a powder, at
5:13
least I haven't seen one on the market that is grown to be
5:16
delicious as like a straight T It's, it's also interesting
5:19
because it's caffeine free. OK.
5:22
And I have, yeah. I mean, I, I still, honestly, I
5:25
still have interest in looking into Ashitaba more and seeing
5:28
the potential because it's just, it's not widely known, but it's,
5:32
it's a plant that's been consumed for a very long time.
5:35
It's known as tomorrow's leave because if you, yeah, if you
5:38
pluck a blood, a bud, it's said to regenerate within 24 hours.
5:42
So it's in kind of goes into the, you know, proposed health
5:44
benefits of Rejuvenate Tonic. It's, you know, widely been used
5:49
for like, beauty, skin health and rejuvenation.
5:52
Cool. Actually, I think there's a big
5:53
space open in matcha for like blending and other things.
5:57
Zhongjin and I started our like tea journey at the Tea Institute
6:00
at Penn State, and we invited a Korean group to come and present
6:04
mostly on Korean tea. But it turns out they have like
6:06
this pseudo matcha tea ceremony, very much less structured than
6:11
what the Japanese have. And he took like really high end
6:15
ginseng, like probably jar was like 150 bucks and he took a
6:19
scoop of that and two scoops of matcha and whisked it together
6:23
and it was it was good. Matcha came from like some one
6:26
of the famous Uji houses and just blew me in mind.
6:29
I. Was like, you're like, whoa,
6:30
yeah. Like this is like flavored
6:32
matcha in like a way I want to consume it, you know?
6:35
It's not like someone's added in like flavors or anything.
6:38
It's 2 like unique ingredients that you wouldn't think of
6:41
putting together. And then it's like this
6:43
Symphony. Yeah, that's so I mean, we,
6:46
yeah, like the vegetables that people, you know, would
6:49
recognize as sauerkraut. And then we'd have so many
6:51
people that would say, you know, I am not a fermented vegetable
6:54
sauerkraut. I despise it, won't touch it.
6:57
And we actually converted tons of people.
7:00
But I will say yeah. And I think what going down this
7:04
path of now we're selling to seven or eight Air One stores
7:08
plus like a bunch of other small health food stores, plus trying
7:12
to do direct orders and basically growing way too
7:15
quickly while also we got pregnant.
7:19
And there's just this whole snowball effect of is this.
7:23
Do we want to be in man? Do we want to be food
7:25
manufacturers? Because when we when we started,
7:27
you know, it was like you don't consider it.
7:29
We're like products based company, right?
7:31
Like we're passionate about these products.
7:34
Something we consume. Yeah, we make them every day or
7:37
we, we consume them every day. We make them, you know,
7:39
bimonthly, monthly, whatever. Not thinking about like this is
7:43
what our life is going to look like scaling this type of
7:46
business. And of course, we launched it at
7:49
the end of 2019. We were doing farmers markets
7:51
and all that. COVID hit in March of 2020 also
7:55
boosted us, especially online like people all of a sudden
7:59
became an. Wellness thing, yeah.
8:00
The immune system, fermented foods, probiotics.
8:04
It boosts your gut health. Yeah.
8:05
Because you talk about the vegetables, we also did
8:07
fermented coconut yogurt. So we threw in the freezer and
8:11
the process of getting the coconut meat here.
8:14
Coconut meat from Thailand, that's.
8:15
The water and the process of of getting the water, I mean all of
8:19
that together on top of the sensitive vegetables that
8:24
fermented for weeks. So.
8:26
So yeah, we. Going into that a little more,
8:28
yeah, like we were bringing in coconut that's scooped and
8:31
frozen on the spot in Thailand. So certified organic coconut,
8:34
they drain the water, freeze it in these like Mylar, like, you
8:38
know, high quality bags. And then so very heavy, right?
8:42
Like bricks of coconut water, bricks of coconut meat.
8:45
They come in on a shipping container on a pallet.
8:48
Then we had cold storage that we had to store it in.
8:51
So the logistics. And then obviously when we're
8:53
shipping this stuff, it's heavy, it's in glass, it needs to stay
8:57
refrigerated. If we're shipping it directly to
8:59
a customer, it needs to get there, especially in the summer
9:01
within like 48 hours. So you're talking about scaling
9:05
a business? We had to use glass, so it made
9:07
it even heavier because we're just accept the shipping.
9:10
Curious that we are, it's like we're never going to put like an
9:13
acidic food in plastic. And you know, so it's our
9:17
convictions made a already challenging business ultra
9:22
challenging. You end up not working on
9:24
anything that you actually like doing.
9:26
Maybe 2% of the time and, and to be honest, like, I think, I
9:30
think jumping into something like Air 1 where you, you and,
9:34
and which was super flattering, but it, you know, it did really
9:38
well there to the point like where we flew out there to look
9:42
at the shelves because these purchase orders were, I think by
9:44
the end of it, we were behind like 200 purchase orders.
9:47
Like I'm not even kidding. And it was.
9:49
Like OK. Yeah, they was just to the point
9:51
where it was just out literally out of control.
9:54
And we got, we were like, we need to go like look at the
9:56
shelves and stuff being rotated right.
9:58
And it was just like just we'd send it there and then it would
10:00
be gone in 2 days. Drowning in your own success.
10:05
We, yeah. But I think sourcing is
10:08
obviously, I think the backbone of our business really is.
10:12
Obsessed with knowing the product inside and out and then.
10:17
It's something that we consume, something that they consumed 100
10:20
years ago, like we a. 100 like 1000 thousands.
10:24
Yeah, I say hundreds basic to my family. 100 if it's.
10:26
Not 100 years ago. Then don't put it in your body.
10:29
But right, yeah, I mean, that is that's a good point.
10:32
Yeah, I say 1000 and your head doesn't go that far back.
10:35
I think sourcing just really important to us.
10:38
And so when we bring up our child indeed, because when you
10:43
have that type of transition in your family and you're looking
10:46
at it and we're drawing maps of of production facilities and
10:50
looking what, what are, you know, next steps?
10:54
And our journey looks like that was something where I guess we
10:58
should talk about because we needed a bigger facility.
11:02
So moving into, do you want to kind of like jump?
11:05
Into I was going to say it's like a perfect time to kind of
11:07
like this is the very beginning of like how we ended up on like
11:11
what we're doing today was so back to that original cafe that
11:16
that I opened in 2016. The project started at the end
11:19
of 2014 and it was in a very, at least for, for Dallas, like
11:24
highly walking traffic, like the best retail real estate you
11:29
could have. And I had this, this
11:30
relationship with the landlord. Well, obviously during COVID,
11:34
they suffered quite a bit. And you know, I just reached out
11:37
to him. We were having trouble finding a
11:39
production facility, right? And he was like, hey, I have
11:42
this retail space. It's 1200 square feet.
11:46
There's all the plumbing's done. There's a little kitchen in the
11:49
back. It's actually, I mean, it's kind
11:52
of a sad story, but it was a tea shop that opened up in March of
11:56
2020. And suffice it to say, yeah, it
12:00
just did not go well. They put like all this money
12:02
into the build out. It was this really a truly
12:04
beautiful space. And we're like, OK, like this is
12:08
a curveball. Like we really just need
12:10
production. We don't need anything customer
12:12
facing and he's like if you take the space, he's like I'll give
12:14
you this deal on it, but you have to have something customer
12:17
facing. You have to have some kind of
12:19
concept in the front. We you can't just like have the
12:21
door shut 24/7. You like sell your firmaments
12:24
and bring in other like retail and and have it because of the
12:28
the traffic of the space. Right.
12:29
Yeah. So we were like, you know what
12:31
this deal is? It's interesting.
12:32
It's kind of like a semi permanent pop up in a way.
12:37
You know, we're right next to Sephora actually.
12:39
Like we shared a wall with Sephora.
12:41
So we had all this like young, you know, there's Barry's boot
12:45
camp across the street. There's like suit supply over
12:48
here. There's like, so it's like this
12:49
young professional demographic just coming in constantly.
12:54
And we're like, so for us, what makes sense is what do we know?
12:57
We're we love sourcing products and offering unique products.
13:00
So we basically made the front like a mini bodega.
13:04
Little there was like there's no real grocery store over there.
13:07
So we're like high quality olive oil.
13:09
They're little selfish. Haverty in Texas.
13:11
That you wanted. To bring.
13:14
So we brought in all those things and something that we
13:17
consumed every day on our own was Matcha.
13:20
Yeah, so and we put in like a little like tea bar, matcha bar.
13:24
And we also threw in in a little for like, I don't know, people
13:28
in the coffee world. There's we have friends actually
13:31
in in Los Angeles that that own a coffee, a coffee brand.
13:34
So we like reached out to them and we're like, it's a good way
13:36
to draw people in to have, you know, coffee, tea matcha.
13:40
That's like on the sign outside. And we put in a little espresso
13:44
machine, one of those like Linnea La Mirzoco minis minis.
13:49
So we're just like totally naive and just open the doors like did
13:52
no marketing. And then all of a sudden people
13:55
started coming in and we sold much more matcha than coffee.
14:01
And we were like, OK, this is this is interesting.
14:05
You know, people would come in and they were just like very
14:08
interested in matcha. And this was like in 20.
14:10
We were the only people that actually whisked it.
14:12
We obviously hand whisked it in. In Dallas?
14:15
Like where the process was completely different.
14:18
So a lot of people just saw like.
14:20
Like those squeeze bottles of like they pre made for full
14:24
volume concentrates. I was in Dallas like, I don't
14:27
know, nine months ago and ordered a few matchas at some
14:30
random places. I don't think it's improved.
14:33
No. We hear that all the time.
14:34
You guys were early. Well, I mean, so like when I was
14:38
2016, it was much different and then and 2022.
14:41
So like we're not thinking about any of this, right?
14:43
Because like we're just making matcha at home and we're
14:46
sourcing, you know, high quality, delicious matcha from,
14:50
you know, our contacts in Japan at this time, right?
14:52
And we don't even consider like what the average consumer is
14:57
walking into everyday when they're either ordering a matcha
15:00
online to prepare at home or like whether they're ordering it
15:03
out of Cafe and it's being served to them.
15:05
We only know our experience, right?
15:08
So all of a sudden now for the first time, we have the general
15:11
public walking into this space. And it was like, instantly
15:15
people are like, Oh my God, this is the best match I've ever had.
15:17
And we're just like. And I want to know.
15:19
Like. We and not knocking on, but we
15:22
didn't add a lot of ads like we wanted people to actually.
15:25
Take no syrup. So we didn't have a lot of, so
15:29
we, you know, our matchas and then we made, because we had a
15:32
lot of extra coconut, we made coconut milk from scratch, which
15:38
people like, loved. Which then again, the coconut
15:40
turned into another problem. It's like we'd run out of
15:42
coconut milk and I'm just like. But you know, we did, you know,
15:47
all of and then we did obviously like milks and then we had some
15:50
like Maple for our. Yeah, Maple syrup was like the
15:54
only people would be like, So what syrups do you have?
15:56
And we're like you heard of Vermont Maple syrups?
16:01
It was delicious and people actually think we're able to
16:03
enjoy and taste the matcha, which was, you know, and the
16:06
feedback was great. Like we had to actually hire
16:09
additional people to. Yeah.
16:11
So then we're like, OK, like this is again not the business
16:14
that I'm not, I'm not trying to hire baristas and you know,
16:18
scale coffee, matcha tea shop. Like this is not slash grocery
16:23
stores slash production facility.
16:25
I'm like. But organically, people started
16:29
as we want, we want your matcha, where do you get your matcha?
16:31
So we're like, oh, we'll just like do a few of them and like
16:35
have them like on the shelf for people to purchase.
16:37
And then we couldn't keep up with what we had to decide.
16:41
We had to that was like, and, and then we just kind of that
16:44
path started to like become more clear.
16:46
It's like, OK, our child's now, you know, he's, he's still an
16:50
infant, but going into toddler stage and we're like had this
16:53
opportunity like do we want to and other things like post
16:56
COVID, right, with scaling, going back to the fermented food
17:00
scaling that brand in 2019 or like with the prospects of what
17:03
scaling look like. And the path just everything
17:07
changed after COVID in terms of like how people were shopping
17:10
and you know, just grocery shopping in general and just all
17:14
of it. And it just distribution was a
17:17
big sticking point. So if we were to continue down
17:20
that path, it's like going and working with Whole Foods and all
17:23
that. The industry became, it was
17:25
already like complicated and it became even more logistically
17:29
complicated. And especially for refrigerated
17:32
products, it was, it's, it's the most competitive space in a
17:36
grocery store because you have this much space compared to the
17:39
shelf staple space, which is like much more vast, so.
17:42
Yeah, and you have like a living perishable product in a cold
17:46
chain. Exactly.
17:49
And it became very clear. It's like, OK, well, this seems
17:52
like there's so much interest, right?
17:54
And then where we are now, obviously we'll get there, but
17:57
it's kind of like one of those things where we're like, why
17:59
didn't we see this path a long time ago?
18:02
Like it's something that we're obviously passionate about,
18:05
something that we bring into our life and practice every single
18:09
day, multiple times a day. And you know, we were just so
18:13
deep with, with our other products that were like, and so
18:16
attached to them. Because, you know, that's like
18:17
one thing I would say, Lisa and I and any founder, I think, or
18:21
business is you become so emotionally wrapped up in what
18:25
you're doing. And it's, it's just like such a
18:28
part of you that to like, even if you know it's the right
18:31
decision to cut something off or to change course, it's still
18:34
hard to do right? Like so you might have this idea
18:38
that hey, we need to kind of change course, but just getting
18:41
to that point might take several more months before you're like,
18:45
OK, we need to like pull the plug on this and like re
18:48
evaluate because you're just it's so part of.
18:50
Yeah, I think if it wasn't for our son, it probably would have
18:52
taken us a lot longer because we we knew like having this, what
18:58
our, our goals and the journey we wanted to have with him and
19:02
and his upbringing, what we needed to do.
19:05
So I think we were able to kind of like had a clear vision, I
19:07
guess. Being nailed down to a
19:10
production facility like just didn't seem like the right path,
19:13
right? Like.
19:14
And we also wanted to be flexible.
19:16
We love to travel and we wanted him to experience what we
19:19
experience and traveling and being flexible and not pinned
19:22
down to, you know, a space like we we definitely.
19:27
A physical location, right Physical location and a lot of
19:30
time with brick and mortar. So it was, you know, the first
19:33
project and then like even though not customer facing like
19:36
thinking about getting into another lease and another brick
19:38
and mortar project, it was just, it just didn't feel right you
19:41
had to make. A choice.
19:43
Yeah. You guys are pretty like unique
19:46
point of view when it comes to like matcha and matcha sourcing.
19:48
I remember I first came across your brand when Cole from my
19:52
Matcha addiction gave a really rave review.
19:55
I think he said is the best organic matcha he'd ever had.
19:58
Yeah, I think that was probably the second time we sent and
20:01
those I specifically, I knew to send these to to Cole because I
20:05
knew his affinity for matcha specifically from Goku show Uji,
20:11
right? He I knew it was his his
20:14
favorite. And I was like, OK.
20:15
And I also knew his kind of stance on organic in general,
20:19
right? Yeah, that's what is really
20:22
powerful for me. I was like wow.
20:25
The influencer it's it's a wild world.
20:27
I think that and so I think when we knew we wanted to connect
20:30
with somebody like we were very like specific and who like with
20:35
our intentions of who we reached out to.
20:37
So we we love Cole, but I think exactly what you said like.
20:40
We knew he would as far as organic and I mean definitely
20:44
talk about like kind of our range and like what we have and
20:48
where we're going. But those those specifically, he
20:52
went exactly the way we thought it was, you know, he loved them
20:55
and and those those specifically, they're
20:59
extraordinarily rare, right? Like first of all, like, I mean,
21:03
as you know, like organic cultivation and Fuji is is
21:07
beyond rare. Most organic you'd probably see
21:11
coming from like Kagoshima or other regions or more, more
21:14
higher elevation where it's easier in terms of like the pest
21:17
control because where where those matches specifically come
21:20
from, it's it's not at a high elevation.
21:22
So you do have much more issues with pests and then also being
21:26
that their competition level matches like it's it took years
21:32
and years of from the farmer and it, you know, the production
21:36
standpoint to be able to even offer them to where the farmer
21:39
was comfortable putting their name on it.
21:42
It's not like a quick journey. It's a very tedious many things
21:47
failed. It's not wasn't like, hey, we're
21:49
going to do organic and now we have organic matcha the salts.
21:53
It was a very long process. And when, when was that?
21:57
When you guys first first start sourcing tea.
22:00
First started sourcing tea that we made available like as under
22:03
cosmic cultures yeah yeah so I think we rebranded right so
22:08
cosmic cultures, the fermented foods that's that was the name
22:11
of our brand and I think we like relaunched the new website at
22:16
the beginning of 24 I mean I'm times running together.
22:21
So it was like maybe the beginning of 24 end of 23 we
22:24
started like teasing about it. We were obviously selling matcha
22:29
through the the store and that was in 2022.
22:32
But to actually, like put it out as, you know, an e-commerce sort
22:38
of like website to where it was like live, yeah.
22:40
Phasing out of phasing out and phasing in was the end of 23 and
22:44
then I think we, we, we launched our website in 24th January of
22:48
20. 4th And I mean, that's a whole other story of just like
22:50
the process of like something that should have been quicker
22:53
and then getting it up online and obviously various roadblocks
22:57
and then things started to obviously intensify.
22:59
And in between we were. With Macha specifically.
23:02
Farmers markets. So that was like, yeah.
23:04
We were still, yeah, we were still popping up and doing like
23:06
little markets and stuff like that.
23:08
So yeah, like online where a customer could go and order it,
23:11
It was in 24 introducing the local community.
23:15
It was like end of 22 and it was, but it was not it, it
23:20
wasn't like widely known that we were doing that.
23:24
So yeah, it was kind of like a tight knit thing at first.
23:28
What? What's been your sourcing
23:29
philosophy I guess since the beginning?
23:32
And then maybe, I don't know if you're focused even more as you
23:35
started to learn more into matcha, like how's that
23:38
evolution been? So I mean, I know Lisa want to
23:40
jump in as well, but for a lack of better terms, I would say
23:43
organic, right, organically, kind of going into it in terms
23:47
of how we, of our life, right? So like when we're buying food
23:51
for ourself, we're buying food for our son, when we're cooking
23:53
at home or even when we're traveling and looking for places
23:56
to to go eat, we always look at sourcing and like, you know, low
24:00
intervention, you know, farmers markets and direct relationships
24:04
with, with the producer of the food.
24:06
That's, that's a big passion of our, of ours.
24:08
So it was no different with matcha and, and tea in general
24:12
is, you know, we want to source tea that's in line with nature
24:16
that there's this little synthetic intervention as
24:20
possible. Because I mean, obviously
24:22
there's intervention with, with growing tensha or matcha like
24:27
producing because it's like you're actively shading it and
24:30
you're like doing all these things, fertilizing the soil,
24:33
but doing it in a way that's free of synthetics.
24:36
You know, that was our kind of like our overall guideline.
24:40
You guys have been sourcing organic matcha since 2022, like
24:46
in the very beginning? Yeah, to offer to people, Yeah.
24:49
And then our like knowledge and sourcing it personally really
24:53
started where we kind of got opened up to it was after our
24:56
first trip to Japan and kind of being introduced.
24:59
To So we started going direct in 2017 and then one of the matches
25:04
that we consume personally was the one that we brought on.
25:07
Our very first offering so our code of.
25:09
Booth one of our offerings today, so which is really
25:12
special and we got to meet them for the first time our last trip
25:16
there. So that was.
25:16
It was, it was great to kind of like make that connection
25:20
because there was the backbone of how we started, you know, and
25:23
it's still, it's still our most, I mean probably our most popular
25:27
in terms of, you know, it's been around the longest.
25:29
So we have like such a base around it where, you know, as
25:32
soon as people see it's back in stock or it's available, like
25:35
it's, we don't really have to do anything.
25:38
And that matcha specifically is it's an amazing, it's an amazing
25:42
tea. You know, it's delicious on its
25:44
own, but it also works well if if you're making a latte.
25:47
So I think that's why it has that versatility and, you know,
25:50
yeah, it's just a delicious tea all around.
25:52
Do you guys care about like Jas or like USDA organic?
25:57
Because I know there's a lot of small producers that basically
26:00
do no intervention other than the shading and but they can't
26:03
call it like organic because they don't have the money to go
26:06
through or it's too complex. So like, I don't know if that
26:09
matters to you or your customers or like how do you draw that
26:12
distinction too? Yeah.
26:14
I mean, the short answer is no. Like we don't care about the the
26:18
government body. That's like saying what it is.
26:20
It's OK. Yeah, I mean.
26:22
I think it's, I think the, with our like customers, the trust in
26:26
us from the beginning of how we source is that we're vetting
26:30
these and having these direct relationships where we
26:33
understand the small that are doing it beyond organic, beyond
26:37
the certifications. And and that's what our I think
26:41
our, that's what our I think goal is.
26:44
Yeah, Yeah. I mean obvious the goal is to
26:47
offer right now it's, it's specifically focused on matcha,
26:51
but very soon other tea and other things in general.
26:54
And it's the goal for us. And it's always been the same
26:56
whether it was the ferments or tea is that we know exactly what
27:00
we're selling, right. We so if the producer of the
27:03
farmer can't afford to have that certification, but we know for a
27:06
fact that they're not using synthetic fertilizers and that
27:10
they're not spraying then. And, and we obviously think the
27:13
tea is delicious because above all of it, if the tea is not
27:16
delicious, it doesn't matter if it's organic, right?
27:20
It doesn't matter because like no one's going to even get to
27:22
this conversation if they don't want to drink it.
27:25
So yeah, I mean, the most important thing to us is making
27:28
sure we know inside and out what we're offering.
27:31
And we've always had that trust with our customers.
27:33
We never, even though we were using wild and beyond organic
27:37
and always at least certified organic on our other products
27:41
like we've never put the label on on our product.
27:44
Whoa. Interesting.
27:46
Yeah, we've never had that label and customers have never, ever
27:50
questioned us because I think just kind of like getting to
27:53
know the brand that you can pretty quickly see like, hey,
27:56
like we're consuming these every single day.
27:59
You know, we're offering it to our child.
28:02
We're we're very transparent in terms of like how things are
28:06
grown and it's the power. Yeah, so.
28:09
Because organic, it's a complicated thing.
28:11
Like it's one of those things like it's just, it's a lot of
28:14
politics, it's a lot of money. And like when you're sourcing
28:17
from small people, like small farmers, like it's just like if
28:21
you don't capture that nuance, you're leaving those people
28:24
behind. Like they're typically the most
28:26
interesting products. Yeah, especially like with with
28:28
very small like lot production stuff, it's like, yeah, if if
28:33
you are overly concerned with, with having that label, then
28:37
yeah, I think you would, you would absolutely miss out on
28:40
some beautiful things that that are beyond USDA or or you know,
28:46
JASIJAS is stricter than USDA. But at at the same time there's
28:52
definitely things that are approved that I personally
28:57
wouldn't want to consume every day even though they're they're
29:00
legal and organic. It's to the benefit of these
29:03
agencies for more people to become certified.
29:06
So they're not going to make it impossible, right?
29:08
So they're these these standards beat start becoming more relaxed
29:12
in terms of what it is. Jas Organic is not what most
29:15
people think it is either. That's.
29:18
And that's that's the other, I mean, this is probably a whole
29:21
nother conversation, but we hear all the time from people that
29:24
are like, well, conventionally grown in Japan, like it's
29:28
obviously going to be pesticide free.
29:31
Like there's this, we've even heard influencers and creators
29:34
that are like, you know, yeah, like it comes from Japan.
29:37
Like I don't need to worry about it being organic.
29:39
And I'm like, well, there's literally so much tea that can't
29:41
even go into Europe from Japan because it doesn't meet the
29:44
residue standards. Or I mean, even if it does,
29:48
right, like not really knowing what's on these leaves.
29:52
And then all the a lot of these insecticides, pesticides,
29:55
they're, they're water soluble. So it's like you're definitely
29:59
pulling them out. I mean, and then you know, the
30:01
whole argument again with matcha, it's like you're
30:03
consuming the whole leaf. So there's an argument there
30:06
that maybe it's even even more important to some extent if your
30:10
goal and look like we totally understand, like I've had plenty
30:15
of conventional matcha and I can understand the differences in a
30:19
conventionally, you know, grown matcha where you're putting
30:23
these synthetic fertilizers that directly manipulate the flavor,
30:27
the outcome of the tea, the color, everything, right.
30:30
And it's, it's kind of these two very distinct categories, but at
30:35
the same time, then it's you can kind of make the argument and
30:37
like where we kind of sit on this viewpoint is, are you
30:40
actually drinking tea to some, to some like you are, but like,
30:45
are these flavors that are being manipulated?
30:48
It's kind of like what you see in the wine world where you have
30:51
lower intervention wines and you have this somewhat like a
30:54
volatile, some level of volatility in them.
30:57
You know, it's nature, right? So I think we always take the
31:00
stance of like wanting to work with nature as much as possible
31:05
versus manipulating it so much to the point where this product
31:09
now is, is so far removed from kind of maybe not what it should
31:13
be, but where it what it was originally would be, right?
31:18
Yeah. And even within that, as you
31:20
know, there's like you have like Xyri where it's like, you know,
31:23
completely going to be super wild and flavor and like you
31:27
never really know. And then you have well tended to
31:31
well fertilized with, you know, lease or, you know, fish meal.
31:35
And like it's, it's organic and it's, it's maintained in a way
31:39
that's very precise. And that is an organic tea that
31:42
that it's cared for and it's going to be delicious because
31:46
the producer, the farmer has put in all these steps to produce
31:51
the most delicious tea possible, right?
31:54
How has it been? Sourcing organic so specifically
31:57
like was it more difficult? In the IT must be hard.
32:00
It's, it's very difficult and especially now with the shortage
32:05
and and the demand for matcha sticking to our convictions,
32:10
right, like wanting to only offer pesticide free.
32:13
We've actually, we've turned down, we've turned down matcha
32:16
that we know would sell well and we could bring on, but we've
32:21
gotten close with some to where we felt decently comfortable.
32:24
But then when we stop back, it's like, you know what, this is a
32:28
moment in time. Like with the industry,
32:32
everyone's scrambling, right? Like brands, producers, farmers,
32:36
everyone's trying to figure this out right now.
32:39
Pricing. If we can't grow as much this
32:42
year, then we can't grow as much this year.
32:45
You know, we're going to support the people that we want to
32:48
support and we're going to stay true to the brand because like
32:50
at the end of the day, that's that's what we have.
32:52
And like, and you know, seeing where the pricing is going with
32:55
some of the some of the tea, honestly, I think that there's
32:58
going to be some die off of other brands.
33:00
I think that obviously consumers are going to naturally things
33:05
are going to level out a bit. Production obviously is is over
33:08
the next few years should catch up to some level.
33:11
So we're trying not to make any knee jerk reactions, support the
33:15
people that we've always supported, supporting new people
33:18
that we know are in line with our vision and and what we want
33:21
to offer. That's that's kind of where we
33:23
are now. So there's some new stuff coming
33:26
on. I think it's the journey has
33:27
been fun connecting and and just trying to connect and obviously
33:31
being miles away. But just I think to your point
33:35
though, having the relationships that we've had for the time has
33:37
helped us getting new relationships.
33:40
I think us being consistent and in our interactions and
33:45
relationship this far with them has been super important into
33:48
engaging in these new relationships that we're have
33:51
coming on. So we do have some new.
33:53
Yeah, we do have some like really new exciting and highly
33:56
allocated like you know, matcha, right, specifically for matcha.
34:01
And then with some of our other ones that we've we've been
34:03
offering, we've been able to increase not as much as we've
34:05
wanted to because our demand is definitely there to increase
34:09
more. But you know, it's like we're
34:11
like I said, we're we're trying to not add additional stress to
34:15
a stressed out system. And you know, if, if, if a
34:20
farmer producer is like, hey, we can only allocate this many
34:23
kilos to you for the season, not pushing back, just, you know,
34:27
realizing they're in a very tough position as well.
34:30
And it. Seems like a lot of a lot of the
34:32
farmers are producer kind of keeping to what you're like
34:35
quotas or your quantities worthy your prior to kind of like share
34:39
the love and and split it. But understanding what those new
34:42
pricing looks like, I think naturally there's gonna be
34:46
there's gonna be some problems. Yeah, more availability.
34:49
And especially with with the like very rare, for lack of
34:54
better terms, competent, you know, competition level teas.
34:58
I think some of these brands that maybe brought them on, I
35:01
would be shocked seeing some of the new pricing if at least for
35:05
this season, if they're going to be able to continue or if they
35:08
even have the customer base depending on how that customer
35:11
is buying and using that tea, right?
35:13
Because some, some of the increases were, you know, not so
35:17
significant and some of the increases that we're seeing are
35:21
groundbreaking for a lack of better terms.
35:23
It's, you know, huge, huge different from from last season.
35:27
Yeah, well, especially where like you guys are sourcing too
35:30
because it's when you limit, you know, no synthetics on the
35:35
fertilizer or pesticide side on the competition grade, there's
35:40
what 2-3 people maybe even less than make for sure like that.
35:46
Yeah, yeah, it's, it's pretty incredible.
35:49
And I think like that's where we we need to, we've obviously do
35:53
the work, but need to really double down on the work because
35:56
the price point of those teas for many people will probably be
36:01
a bit of a shock at first. But then when you explain it's
36:05
like, hey, you know, when you're at the airport and you're paying
36:07
$10.00 for a plastic cup of like, you know, sea grade
36:12
matcha, it's like, is it really that expensive or is it now the
36:17
price that it should be because of what goes into it?
36:20
I mean, you know, I don't know. I think also drawing the
36:23
connection to more people of when they're making their tea,
36:26
when they're making their matcha, it's like this whole
36:29
entire year went into this one harvest and of this one harvest,
36:35
it is not a lot. And so when you're when you're
36:38
sitting there and making it, maybe it'll bring more of an
36:41
awareness and intention behind what you're actually doing in
36:45
that moment. Just reminded me when we on our
36:47
last trip to Japan, one of my favorite quotes and takeaways
36:51
from something that really resonated when that's when we
36:53
were sharing how much we appreciated their tea and how
36:56
big a part of a journey. He said he really appreciate it
36:59
that you're not only just drinking the tea, but you're
37:01
drinking the farmer's soul and and that really, I think just
37:05
connects you to the experience and what you're drinking in
37:08
front of you and the love that went into that.
37:11
Yeah. I mean, and just the fact that I
37:13
think more people know this fact now that it's like it takes an
37:16
hour to stone mill 30 grams of matcha.
37:18
So it's like, I think people are starting to hear that more.
37:21
And I think those little pieces of information is like, it's
37:26
such a new, you know, novel product for most people in the
37:30
West, right? As compared to coffee.
37:31
It's, it's not the consumers fault necessarily 100% right,
37:36
Because how would they're, they're not educated and it's
37:40
our, our job, right? Like companies like us to like
37:42
educate. And hopefully, you know, when
37:46
people see these price points, they're like, OK, well, that
37:49
makes sense, right? Like it might cost for this
37:51
matcha me making, you know, let's say 2G at home.
37:55
Maybe that is going to cost me $10.00 for that specific matcha,
37:59
but why? And OK, now I understand and
38:03
it's worth it because this is this is not a product you can go
38:06
buy at the grocery store. This is not a, you know, these
38:08
aren't like mass produced carrots that are at every Whole
38:11
Foods in the country. This is coming from us, you
38:14
know, tiny lot from 1 garden milled on the property, milled
38:19
on the estate and then, you know, package shipped directly
38:22
to us and now we're giving it to you.
38:23
So it's, it's this very intimate, you know, special
38:28
products. There are a lot of human touch
38:31
that went into the process. Yeah, exactly.
38:35
And it's like people saying like Matcha's rare because it only
38:38
represents 6% of the tea grown in Japan.
38:41
And then you compare it to like like this like level like it's
38:46
I, I really have a bone to pick with some of the marketing out
38:49
there. It's like.
38:50
Yeah. Say it's rare or this is a rare
38:53
cultivar, but really like there's like worlds of
38:57
differences in some of the sourcing.
38:59
Yeah, ABS absolutely. And I think, you know, for us,
39:03
right, like some of the specifically these high, highly
39:07
allocated and very rare matches that we're talking about that
39:10
are that are at this price point.
39:12
These are, these are ones that we're proud to offer and that we
39:15
are, you know, obviously humbled and grateful to be able to make
39:19
available to people. But they're not our, they're not
39:23
the, they're not the teeth that are growing our business, right?
39:26
Like the, in terms of, for lack of better terms, scaling or
39:30
offering more product, right? Like these are these are here
39:33
for people that really want to expand kind of like their
39:39
perception of what matcha is, what it can be, and specifically
39:42
for us like what organic matcha can be if it's done very
39:47
carefully, very precisely, very, very, very intentionally, right?
39:51
Like not that the conventional ones aren't, but to like add
39:54
that level of complication that organic brings.
39:57
You know, it's really in a lot of it like the the
40:00
fertilization, right? Like to get those flavor
40:02
profiles with organic fertilization and to avoid the
40:07
pests because when you're making if the tea is delicious to you.
40:11
It's delicious to the bugs. I mean, it's, they're going to
40:14
come for it and. Yeah.
40:16
So out of curiosity on the supply side, have you seen like
40:20
more farmers moving into organic or less like what's the dynamic
40:24
right now? More in terms of us, More.
40:26
Yeah, more. Maybe that's because that's what
40:29
we're looking for, but we definitely have.
40:32
Yeah. And, and I mean, like
40:34
specifically can think of instances where farmers have
40:38
mentioned an issue with pests that are resistant to like with
40:42
every agricultural industry, right.
40:44
So it's like you have these pests that are now becoming
40:47
resistant to the pesticides, then they have to use more
40:50
pesticides or different pesticides.
40:52
And they recognize that this is a not a good cycle.
40:55
This is not a sustainable cycle to just be using more.
41:00
Natural selection your breeding superbugs.
41:03
Yeah, yeah. And I mean, they, yeah, that's
41:06
literally have seen that come up in conversation.
41:08
So I think I think because of that, obviously, you know,
41:12
there's a lot going on outside of just the quote UN quote boom
41:15
with, with matcha's. Like obviously there's the whole
41:18
environmental side of, of how tea in the production is being
41:23
affected with, with the weather changing as well.
41:25
It's it's there's a lot, yeah, there's a lot, a lot going on
41:28
with with how much quality tea is available right now.
41:32
And I mean, I'm sure you guys obviously know the yield this
41:35
year was lower than previous years across Japan, but the
41:39
quality was really good that hopefully with the prices being
41:44
higher and the quality being so good this year, at least there's
41:47
that. Yeah, at least it's a little
41:49
more understandable. Right.
41:53
Yeah, yeah, no, it's so it's interesting dynamics.
41:55
Have you guys seen like better quality coming out of like I
41:58
heard Kagoshima's making tons of investments in organic and I
42:02
heard it wasn't very good like 10 years ago.
42:06
I wasn't drinking single origin matcha back then but but I've
42:10
heard now it's like really up and up.
42:13
Yeah. And I mean, I think Kagoshima is
42:14
now the number one producer of of matcha.
42:18
I think that they take the number one spot.
42:22
But yeah, like we there is a great climate there, right.
42:26
And our for our Kodabuki is it's it's stone milled and Uji buy an
42:33
amazing tea house. And but the leaf itself is grown
42:37
in Kagoshima. We have another matcha called
42:40
our Kasumi with a farm that we work directly with.
42:43
And the farmer that grows that is, is arguably the number one
42:47
organic. But in terms of like innovation
42:51
and, and how long he's been producing organic tea, it's
42:55
they're, they're both of those teas are amazing and, and they
42:58
have such unique qualities that are obviously very different
43:02
than Uji, but in their own right are extremely high quality and
43:07
delicious. And we're very excited about the
43:11
potential of Kagoshima. We, we have actually a new farm
43:14
that we've been working on for a while.
43:17
There's, you know, it's, it's funny because like some farms
43:20
and producers, you have this language barrier, right?
43:23
This inherent language barrier. And for whatever reason, I don't
43:26
know if it's like whatever translator apps or that, you
43:30
know, that are being used. We've met in person and there's
43:33
not a lick of English, right? Zero English.
43:36
But when we communicate by e-mail, it's super clear,
43:39
there's no problem. And then we'll talk with other
43:41
people. And it's very challenging,
43:43
right? Like even with the app, it's
43:45
like it's, it's very challenging.
43:48
And what could take a month with somebody else might take six
43:51
months, but, but this so there is, there is a, a newer, I
43:57
shouldn't say a newer farm. They've they've been producing
43:59
sencha for a really long time and they've converted a lot of
44:05
their sencha fields. As you've seen this trend
44:08
happening kind of across the Japan is to to more tensha.
44:12
And they actually just built a brand new Tensha processing
44:16
facility and they're really kind of setting up to, to produce
44:21
some amazing matcha. And we sampled some a couple
44:24
months ago. And that's kind of like what I'm
44:26
saying I maybe even more than a couple months ago.
44:29
And we really, we really love what they're doing.
44:31
And we're we're still in conversation in September.
44:36
Yeah, we have a interpreter. Joining in September, we're
44:39
gonna have an interpreter joining and in next time and and
44:42
now we have so like we have multiple TS right coming from
44:44
Kagoshima. So when we go back to when we're
44:47
back in Japan, I'm actually really excited to go down to
44:50
Kagoshima and visit because we did not make it on on our last
44:55
trip when we saw you guys. I actually have a kind of a, you
44:59
know, related question to, you know, like your fermentation
45:02
background. Like.
45:03
Have you guys? Ventured into like those
45:05
fermented Japanese tea, like our pancha or like koichicha.
45:09
We haven't. I think like naturally that
45:12
would be a great exploration for us just to be transparent, like
45:16
after the matcha has just been so consuming with everything
45:21
going on, right? Like it's, it's, we've had to
45:24
really put a lot of effort into making sure that we secure the
45:27
matcha that we need and the producers that we want to work
45:30
with, right. So when things things are
45:32
starting to settle a little bit more, we've really wanted to
45:34
bring on some some delicious sencha and Kyokuru and and stuff
45:38
like that. So we are those are going to be
45:40
our next offerings outside of matcha.
45:43
And then beyond that, yes, absolutely.
45:46
Some some more fermented teas I think would would be great for
45:49
us. But but yeah, I mean, we're
45:52
we're excited. I think like that was one thing
45:54
to like cosmic cultures, right? Like the name and why we kept
45:57
the name and we never wanted to pinhole ourselves into matcha
46:02
only right, or, or one or ferments or whatever we were
46:05
doing. We wanted to like keep, keep the
46:08
opportunities available to us as we see fit or makes sense for
46:11
our brand because we don't, we learned we don't know.
46:15
You start a project, right? Obviously we'll always have
46:18
matcha, always, always have tea. But who knows, right?
46:22
Like where this is going to lead to.
46:24
Fashion's a big driver for sure. So I guess moving forward, like
46:29
how do you see the matcha conversation evolving in the
46:33
next, I don't know, 5 to 10 years, especially around organic
46:37
and synthetics and pesticides and fertilizer.
46:41
How how do you what would be the ideal end state as you see it as
46:45
like the whole industry kind of evolves and we all like gather
46:49
new perspectives and try new flavors and new teas and to
46:53
understand these agricultural practices.
46:55
That's a good question. I mean, obviously 100% my, my
47:00
viewpoints and I it's think, I think it will be easier to find
47:04
high quality, delicious organic matcha.
47:07
Like definitely understand the perspective that organic tea
47:12
doesn't taste as good. But I also think a lot of that
47:15
is because there hasn't been as much poured into it, right?
47:19
Because maybe there there necessarily didn't need to be.
47:22
So it was working perfectly in terms of producing these high
47:26
quality teas the way it had been done.
47:28
And just to like kind of like go back on that all tea was organic
47:31
before 100 years ago in the sense of what we're talking
47:34
about because these these chemicals just didn't exist,
47:37
right or the synthetic. So I think going back to using
47:41
what we know now about fertilization and also working
47:46
with nature, I'm very excited about like what is going to
47:50
become available to people and shifting the the paradigm on
47:54
what high quality organic matcha can look like.
47:57
So I think that's definitely that's one huge positive, right.
48:02
And then the other part of your question, like in terms of like
48:05
where the matcha industry's headed is that, yeah.
48:07
And like people's perception of it and like these conversations,
48:11
because right now the conversation is like organic
48:13
matcha is sometimes good, it's mostly bad.
48:16
Right. Like, and the reality is because
48:19
I hold both beliefs, I think like, fertilizer is important
48:22
and pesticides can be important. On the other side, I'm like very
48:26
deeply disturbed by some of the agricultural practices in Japan.
48:30
And like we want to see innovation in this space.
48:34
You know, there's there's a class of pesticides, secticides,
48:39
eonicotinoids, if I am not like pronouncing it perfectly, but
48:43
it's for whatever reason, the words hard for me to pronounce.
48:45
But that class of pesticides is, is is very problematic
48:52
neurologically, cardiovascularly.
48:55
It's terrible for your gut health hormones, specifically
49:00
reproductive hormones, women's hormones, as are a lot of of
49:04
things that are synthetic. But but this class is is
49:08
particularly disturbing and it's they're water soluble.
49:11
They're used, they're heavily used in tea production post
49:13
harvest or post production. It's something that, I think if
49:19
we can see that being scaled back or that class of pesticide
49:22
or insecticide being scaled back, I think it's only going to
49:25
benefit not just humans, but the environment.
49:29
And I, there's farmers that have switched.
49:32
We've, we've seen stories of farmers who have switched from
49:37
conventional farming, right? Maybe it's a third generation
49:40
farmer, 4th generation farmer, tea farmer that has switched to
49:44
organic because they saw somebody in their family get
49:48
sick from a certain type of synthetic, right?
49:52
And it motivated them to take the risk because that to switch
49:56
from conventional and it's been working at generations, right.
50:00
And then to be like, I'm going to completely shift to organic,
50:04
Not only does it take five years before you can even sell organic
50:09
because you have to like the soil has to be organically
50:12
farmed long enough to where it's considered that right?
50:15
That's. Right.
50:15
Yeah. So it's a massive risk.
50:18
And then it's like, is it even going to work?
50:20
Forget about like being able to call it or not only just tastes
50:23
good, but is it literally going to work?
50:25
It's a huge risk. And we've seen stories of that,
50:28
of that switch happening after generations literally because
50:33
they're, they don't want to see people get sick like they saw
50:35
happen with a family member or themselves.
50:38
Maybe they had a bad personal reaction to to a chemical they
50:42
were coming in contact with. So, yeah, I mean, it's, it's a
50:45
real conversation. It's, you know, I know that
50:49
there's probably going to be people hearing me hearing me say
50:51
this and, and they're going to just, you know, completely throw
50:55
it out the window, which which is totally fine.
50:56
Like, I feel like there's a place for everyone at the table
51:01
when it comes to whether or not you want to consume one tea over
51:05
the other. Tea.
51:05
I I can recognize conventional teas for their certain
51:10
qualities. Is it a tea that I'm going to
51:12
want to personally consume 1/2 times a day, 20 times a week?
51:17
That's kind of like where my. Yeah, that's a great point.
51:21
Yeah. So it's, I think it's the, the,
51:24
it's like with anything in life, right?
51:25
It's the reducing the things that we have control over and
51:29
accepting the things we don't. And I'm like, I can't, you know,
51:34
my neighbors spraying some thing all over his lawn or whatever.
51:38
I can't control that. Or I can't control when I go out
51:40
in public what I'm exposed to. But I can control for the most
51:44
part, what, what we consume, what we offer our customers.
51:47
And I think that's kind of like an important distinction of why
51:50
we do the work that we do with organics.
51:53
It's it's literally something we can control.
51:56
Yeah. In terms of what we make
51:57
available. I can really relate to this
51:59
whole thing. Sampling tensha and matcha has
52:02
been quite challenging to me in a sense that I'm super sensitive
52:05
to some of the fertilizers and pesticides.
52:09
I got like. So sick at one time sampling a
52:12
batch of tensha. I had like a.
52:15
Week of fever. He actually like a jet fever.
52:17
I was totally fine. He like Sam like looked like he
52:20
had the flu. It was really.
52:22
Weird. So I mean, yeah.
52:23
And I think, I think that's like something, right?
52:26
Where it's so dependent on all, we all have this our own unique
52:30
biology, right? And what literally what might
52:33
cause you could have twins, right?
52:35
With the same genetics, right? And one will get cancer and 1
52:39
won't get cancer. And they could be exposed to
52:41
very similar environments. And we don't really understand
52:45
why, right? So, so yeah.
52:48
And I think it's it's nature. We're nature.
52:50
And I think like it just goes back to like what what we're
52:53
passionate about. It's like nature supporting us,
52:56
us supporting nature. But like I said, the tea has to
53:00
be delicious. At the end of the day, the tea
53:02
has to be delicious. No one's going to listen if it's
53:05
not. And you know it, that makes our
53:08
position, especially now with this crazy boom, it does make it
53:12
very challenging. And I will say there's times
53:15
where like I've I've gotten frustrated in the sense of we're
53:21
a new kid on the block when it comes to selling matcha.
53:23
I completely understand there are especially even US based
53:26
companies that have been selling matcha since 2000 and five,
53:29
2010, whatever, right, even longer.
53:32
I think when let's say we're so aligned, let's say with a, with
53:37
an organic farmer producer and we wish so much that we could
53:44
buy more of that tea, right? Because our customers value that
53:47
tea so much. It's such a sliver of the
53:50
production, like you said, being organic and delicious.
53:54
It hurts sometimes to see, let's say, another brand that doesn't
53:57
really push or speak to those cultivation qualities.
54:04
Interesting. Let's say their lineup is 80 to
54:07
90% conventional. And then they have they've
54:11
they're taking from this highly allocated right, like tea.
54:16
It's, it kind of makes us like, I'm like wondering, I'm like,
54:18
what is the producer or the farmer from their perspective?
54:22
Like when you look at the brand and you look at like how
54:25
passionate they are about offering organic, it's kind of
54:29
this, there's like that little bit of disconnect where and, and
54:31
then on and on from our viewpoint, I'm like, well,
54:33
that's kind of frustrating to know.
54:35
Like our community would eat that up with so much passion and
54:39
joy. But it's kind of just like
54:41
thrown on here, you know? So that's interesting.
54:45
Yeah, it's, it's one thing that kind of crossed my mind where
54:47
I'm like that that is a sticking point, especially now because
54:50
there's obviously not enough for everybody at the table.
54:54
But it, you know, it is, it is what it is.
54:56
And I think like sticking to our vision over the next few years
55:00
is going to is going to pay off as as the industry settles and
55:04
grows and the consumers habits. I think one of our farmers used,
55:08
and I use it now, but she said that she's in a state of
55:11
confusion, which is the translation, right?
55:14
But I think once that state of confusion like levels out, like
55:18
they're peaceful, calm environments of what they've
55:20
been doing for generations, hopefully is restored and some
55:24
degree, I don't think it's ever going to be quite, quite the
55:27
same. But I think our goal is to to
55:29
protect that as best we can with.
55:32
Our to not add additional stress, I mean, that's like one
55:34
of the biggest things that we've like that has come up is that,
55:38
you know, I mean tea, it's it's a relatively peaceful from the
55:41
farmer's perspective, right? Like they're in these beautiful
55:44
environments. It's a very peaceful.
55:46
I mean, there's obviously parts of it that are very grueling in
55:49
the harvesting, in the heat and all of that.
55:51
But in terms of the lifestyle of what evolves around it, right
55:56
there is this peaceful component to the work, whether it is hand
55:59
picking leaves under the shade, the way the light comes in, it's
56:02
like it's a very meditative, peaceful process.
56:07
And to like have this whole thing happening now globally
56:10
where it's like everyone needs more, more, more, you can
56:14
understand like. Contradiction.
56:15
Yeah. Right.
56:16
So yeah, I mean it's that's what we can do is to to try not to
56:21
add any additional problems. I, you know, I think is what
56:24
we're hoping. Yeah, and just represent their
56:27
work the best we can for sure. Yeah, to the best of our
56:30
ability, yeah. Them and I always say,
56:33
especially within like a lot of the new matcha brands that you
56:36
know, their values aren't what they say in like a mission
56:38
statement or what they say on the websites in the compromises
56:42
that they make. And like you guys really like
56:46
like scream through that value like that, like you're
56:49
sacrificing scale and growth to not add pressure in the system.
56:53
But also, you know, you're not opening up past like what you're
56:57
sourcing philosophy is like you're sourcing philosophy
57:00
hasn't expanded so that you can grow your business and like it.
57:03
It's nice to see like people living values like that.
57:06
It's it's right, man. You appreciate, I mean, and I
57:09
think that's also why we're looking now to like to stuff
57:12
like sencha. I mean it's there's so much
57:16
delicious tea out there that is not matcha, right.
57:19
And I think I think we have this opportunity, right, looking at
57:23
like, let's say, I mean, there's obviously a lot of online
57:27
brands, but specifically looking at brands like that are US based
57:30
or have a good US customer base. When we look at loose leaf tea,
57:37
we think that, you know, there's like we have a voice.
57:39
We can have a voice here, like through our filter, through our
57:41
brand. I think one of the biggest
57:43
sticking points too is like, people just don't know how to
57:45
brew it. Like they don't have like maybe
57:47
the teapot, they don't, they've never done it.
57:49
So they're like they've only ever steeped tea bags or
57:51
whatever. And we have to like go back and
57:52
like, look at like, how can we like show people drink this for
57:57
a couple weeks every day? Like pick a time of day that
57:59
works for you to have a few minutes, drink this tea for two
58:03
weeks straight every day and see how it affects you.
58:06
And I would argue that you're going to really like the effect
58:10
of it and you're probably going to keep buying it because it's
58:13
delicious. It makes you feel great.
58:15
It's the process again, of just doing something for yourself,
58:19
taking the time to like, brew this tea and like connect with
58:22
with the person that grew it. It's, it's this rare thing in
58:26
today's world that I feel like everyone's moving so quickly to
58:30
be able to have these little moments throughout the day.
58:33
Is it kind of sells itself, right?
58:35
And it should. It's, it's, it's a very nice
58:37
process to like take part in. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
58:42
Awesome. Well, I think that's a great
58:44
note to end on. Thank you so much for coming.
58:46
Really appreciate your time. To our audience, if you enjoyed
58:51
this, please consider sharing it with a friend and we'll see you
58:53
on the next one. Thanks.
58:55
In the future guys. Thanks.