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FALL: Major Jackson > Apple Parsnip Soup · Recipe Journal Podcast

• 0:04
  SPEAKER_00: Hi, it's Annelies Eiderveld and you're listening to the Recipe Journal podcast,
• 0:08
  SPEAKER_00: where we dive into the details of how recipes are made one recipe at a time.
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_00: My first guest doesn't know it, but he prompted the creation of this podcast.
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_00: Major Jackson is known for his poetry.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_00: He was the slowdown podcast host for two years.
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_00: He's worn a lot of hats.
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_00: However,
• 0:30
  SPEAKER_00: he just came out with a bowl of goodness,
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_00: a collection of food poetry and recipes for soup.
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_00: Now, I've written a number of food poems as they bridge two of my great loves,
• 0:39
  SPEAKER_00: food and poetry together.
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_00: In the early days of blogging, I called my blog The Food Poet.
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_00: And a book all about soup?
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_00: In poems and recipes?
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_00: Sign me up.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_00: There are such a wealth I've
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_00: made Jackson's albondigas and making plans
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_00: for Molagatani and have bread almost ready for ribollita.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_00: But tonight is tomato basil soup night, a recipe created by Jackson's son.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_00: I could eat soup every day happily.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_00: One soup in this book especially stood out, though.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_00: Apple parsnip soup.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_00: And I knew I needed to hear more about it.
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_00: Plus, there's a poem by Padre Gotuma in the book with some choice words about parsnips.
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_00: Let's get started.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_00: I'm glad you're here.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome, Major Jackson.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_01: Annelies, a pleasure to be with you.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_00: So, A Book of Soup and Poetry.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_00: I love how it's in conversation with the hungry ear and By Kevin Young
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_00: that he put out years ago.
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_00: And I had a blog for a long time that was called The Food Poet.
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_00: And so I was stoked when I saw that.
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_00: I love even that you have his poem about gumbo in this book.
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_00: And that poem was one of my favorites.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_00: And so we're going to talk about soup, though.
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_00: We're not going to be talking as much about poetry, but it's good.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_00: It's good.
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_00: There's poetry in the book and there's poetry in the way that you put
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_00: the dish together and the words together.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_00: So apple parsnip soup.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I discovered this soup in a book that was published in the early eighties.
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_01: And I have to admit parsnip is not my favorite root vegetable.
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_01: I'm sorry,
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_01: but I said to myself, okay,
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_01: this could be interesting as,
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_01: and as you know,
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_01: you and I've talked, I am all about something exotic, something different.
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_01: This soup seemed easy enough to make.
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_01: And I think the trick here for me was,
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_01: first of all, pureing is one of the great gifts of cooking.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_01: And to be able to chop up those apples, there is work with the parsnip.
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you gotta peel it and you gotta chop it up and get it ready.
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_01: But the curry and the cardamom, come on.
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_01: That was the surprise element for me.
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_01: That is what kind of made this soup come alive for me.
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_01: The apple cider adds that level of kind of sweetness,
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_01: but next to,
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_01: and the apples of course,
• 3:19
  SPEAKER_01: but that curry like makes a turn on that soup that is so unexpected.
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and I love that we're diving in because- Sorry.
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_00: Here's the thing.
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_00: Padraig Otuma has a poem in your book called Padraig's Irritating
• 3:35
  SPEAKER_00: but Hopefully Delicious Soup,
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_00: where he boldly declares the parsnips to be vegetables of evil,
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_00: quote unquote, conceding that he's told, quote unquote, some very fine people like them.
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_00: So it sounds like you're one of the coterie here.
• 3:52
  SPEAKER_00: Why parsnips in the soup?
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_00: Did you try potatoes first?
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_01: You know, potatoes... Or carrots.
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_01: Or carrots, right.
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_01: Actually, carrot soup probably would have been the next contender.
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_01: But again,
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_01: like for example,
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not a big fan of okra,
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_01: but you put okra In gumbo and I'm all excited,
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_01: but I can't eat okra alone like my family used to do.
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_01: Similarly with parsnips, I wanted to reconcile my relationship with this vegetable.
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_01: So this was the one I chose and I'm happy I chose it because I make it just
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_01: about every meal now.
• 4:33
  SPEAKER_01: When I have a soup party,
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_01: it's one of the consistent soups because it emerged as The soup
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_01: that most converts people to,
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_01: you know, people will, if I make a chili, they'll go for the chili.
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_01: If I make a stew, a bee stew, they'll go for the bee stew.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_01: But with the apple parsnip,
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_01: there is skepticism, but I love to see that first bite because I know I got them.
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_00: Well, and I love the fact that I think it's so genius that you're using apple cider
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_00: as part of the base of the soup.
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_00: So it's sort of like you have two kinds of apples that are being introduced
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_00: and it's also helping fill up that expanse that we need broth to do its work.
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_00: So I thought that was such an interesting idea.
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_01: This is a quick cooking soup, too.
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it doesn't take.
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_01: There are some soups that are definitely going to simmer for three or four hours
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_01: in this book,
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_01: but this is one of the ones that I can make just before my guests arrive,
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_01: allows me to kind of set the table, get the bread together.
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_01: And this one is pretty hot when they arrive.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_00: Let's talk about spicing because I feel like the soup layers cardamom
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_00: with fresh ginger, black pepper, curry powder.
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_00: It feels so warming and cozy.
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_00: And I feel like this is a flavor profile that you're going to want to take
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_00: into fall, into winter that sometimes feels like it's never going to end.
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_00: I think on the East Coast, I'm in the West Coast,
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_00: where like it's summer all year long.
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_00: We love that.
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_00: But how did you come up with that combo of flavors?
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_01: The combination.
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_01: Curry and the cardamom,
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_01: I think,
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_01: along with the black pepper,
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_01: I wanted to kind of cut just a little bit the sweetness from the apples.
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_01: And the parsnip we know is going to be the kind of grounding base.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_01: The acidity of the apples, I think, needs a balance, a counterbalance.
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_01: The cardamom and the ginger I felt would do that work for me.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_01: I think in one instance, I actually put a tablespoon of ginger and that overshot quite a bit.
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_01: My mouth was kind of like...
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_01: Taking it back,
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_01: but the one and a half teaspoon and the one teaspoon of the cardamom and the,
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's a teaspoon of the,
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_01: yeah, tablespoon of the curry was a great proper amount.
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_01: I think if you double this,
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_01: if you double this recipe, go, right now it serves eight.
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_01: If you hit 16, you still might need to kind of pull back a little bit on those spices.
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_00: Before landing at the print ready recipe in your book,
• 7:39
  SPEAKER_00: how many iterations or versions had you made of your apple parsnip soup?
• 7:44
  SPEAKER_01: Four or five.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_01: Four or five times I cooked it before I shared it with family and friends.
• 7:53
  SPEAKER_01: Most of that, believe it or not, was finding the right apple.
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_01: Like I thought I could just go in and grab any old New York gala,
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_01: but the Fuji and the Honeycrisp I thought were perfect for this
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_01: because they have their own tanginess to them.
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_01: The profile,
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_01: the taste profile of those apples,
• 8:17
  SPEAKER_01: it leans more towards a brightness that you want with this soup.
• 8:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah,
• 8:23
  SPEAKER_00: especially like this is one of those soups where it's garnished with creme fraiche
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_00: at the end.
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_00: So that's also adding that extra brightness that's going to cut through the sweetness.
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_00: I'm curious about onions.
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_00: So I know that we've talked before.
• 8:35
  SPEAKER_00: You mentioned you have a lot of soup cookbooks and you have a lot of cookbooks.
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_00: Cooks can sometimes be very...
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_00: Strongly rooted in the types of onions they use.
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_00: So is there a particular kind of onion you use when you're cooking
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_00: or does it just kind of depend on what the dish is?
• 8:53
  SPEAKER_00: And in this particular instance for this soup, would you go yellow onion, white onion?
• 8:59
  SPEAKER_01: I typically lean towards yellow and sweet.
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_01: The white onions is a rarity for me to use with soups, and I'm not sure why.
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_01: There are some soups that require the pearl onions,
• 9:13
  SPEAKER_01: and they are both flavorful and decorative in a lot of ways.
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_01: There's a beef stew that I like to make with pearl onions.
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_01: I guess I give short shrift to the white onion.
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not sure why now, other than I like the flavor profile of the sweet and the yellow onions.
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_00: So the initial prep of the soup makes sense with the sauteing of the aromatics and
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_00: then blooming the spices.
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_00: I'm especially interested in this idea that you tell the cook to puree half the soup.
• 9:44
  SPEAKER_00: I bet finding chunks of parsnip and apple bobbing in a creamy broth, I bet it's heavenly.
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, you want a smoothness,
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_01: but I think if you,
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_01: particularly if you're in the fall, you were talking about the season.
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_01: And I think something about that bite into the soup that announces away from
• 10:07
  SPEAKER_01: the bounty of the season, you're going to get that with the chunks.
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I think there is a very strong kind of correspondence.
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_01: Nothing wrong with smooth, and I definitely have...
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_01: Veered away from even my own instruction and purified the whole thing all at once.
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_01: And you're still going to end up with a great soup.
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_01: More the half pureeing is about texture.
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_00: I was also thinking this soup might be really nice chilled, honestly.
• 10:37
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_01: Trust me, I've put it away and come back to it the next morning.
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_00: Super breakfast.
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_00: We love it.
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_00: That's great.
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_00: It could be now, right?
• 10:49
  SPEAKER_01: It should be.
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_01: It should be.
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_00: What do you suggest eating with the soup?
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_00: Are you big on like hunks of baguette or is it crackers?
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_00: Like, what do you kind of like lean towards as far as like?
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_01: Almost never crackers for some reason.
• 11:03
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's a preference.
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_01: And I think it has to do with just the fullness of the baguette or chunk of bread.
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_01: I even like rye bread.
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_01: With this particular soup I've served before,
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_01: slices of it,
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_01: something that is going to give you a nice crunch to,
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_01: again, add to the texture, add to that sense of seasonal delight.
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's a delicious recipe and you'll be able to find it below in the newsletter.
• 11:36
  SPEAKER_00: So finally,
• 11:37
  SPEAKER_00: since your book pairs poems with soups,
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_00: And it also includes a handy guide on how to throw a soup night with poetry.
• 11:45
  SPEAKER_00: Is it possible you could read maybe the Joy Harjo poem on page 143
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_00: that you've paired with the soup?
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_00: And before that, maybe tell us why you paired the poem with the apple parsnip soup.
• 11:59
  SPEAKER_01: Right, the pairing with it.
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_01: I think maybe because this soup featured so many times as a menu at dinner parties,
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_01: I recall the extent to which the joy in the room seemed to be embodied
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_01: in this particular poem, that sense of engagement.
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_01: And I will say,
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_01: even before I began this anthology,
• 12:31
  SPEAKER_01: I knew that I wanted this poem to be in it because I've encountered this poem
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_01: in other, I think you mentioned Kevin Young's.
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_01: I'm sure it's there.
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_01: It's also a poem that one other poet modeled their poem after Joy's poem.
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_01: And I love when there's conversation between recipes, but also a conversation between poems.
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_01: Perhaps the world ends here.
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_01: The world begins at a kitchen table.
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_01: No matter what, we must eat to live.
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_01: The gifts of earth are brought and prepared, set on the table.
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_01: So
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_01: it has been since creation and it will go on.
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_01: We chase chickens or dogs away from it.
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_01: Babies teet at the corners.
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_01: They scrape their knees under it.
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_01: It is here that children are given instructions on what it means to be human.
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_01: We make men at it.
• 13:39
  SPEAKER_01: We make women.
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_01: At this table, we gossip, recall enemies and the ghosts of lovers.
• 13:47
  SPEAKER_01: Our dreams drink coffee with us as they put their arms around our children.
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_01: They laugh with us at our poor falling down selves and
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_01: as we put ourselves back together once again at the table.
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_01: This table has been a house in the rain,
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_01: an umbrella in the sun, Wars have begun and ended at this table.
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_01: It is a place to hide in the shadow of terror, a place to celebrate the terrible victory.
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_01: We have given birth on this table and have prepared our parents for burial here.
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_01: At this table, we sing with joy, with sorrow.
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_01: We pray of suffering and remorse.
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_01: We give thanks.
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_01: Perhaps the world will end At the kitchen table while we are laughing and crying,
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_01: eating of the last sweet bite.
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_01: As I was reading,
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_01: I was thinking about your question again and thinking about the allegorical nature
• 14:59
  SPEAKER_01: of a table as a gathering place and the kitchen too,
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_01: no matter how many times I set up the rest of my house For a dinner party,
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_01: people always congregate in the kitchen.
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_01: I beg them, there's a living room.
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_01: There's the sun room.
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_01: Go hang out there.
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_01: No, no, no, no.
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_01: They want to be in that kitchen.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_01: Once the meal starts, allegorically speaking is where the magic happens at the table.
• 15:31
  SPEAKER_01: So that poem means a lot to me because it captures So much of the journey
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_01: of my life around tables as a place where we commune and we meet and we gather
• 15:47
  SPEAKER_01: and we talk and we laugh and we cry and we gossip.
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_01: She nailed it.
• 15:53
  SPEAKER_01: Joy Harjo.
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_01: Frequently Joy Harjo nails it.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_00: Indeed.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much for spending some time with us and taking us through your recipe.
• 16:03
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you, Annelies.
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_01: Such a pleasure.
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_00: That's it for this episode.
• 16:10
  SPEAKER_00: You can find the recipe for the apple parsnip soup on the Recipe Journal Substack.
• 16:15
  SPEAKER_00: I want to thank my guest,
• 16:16
  SPEAKER_00: Major Jackson, for sharing this recipe with us and telling us all about it.
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you also to my producer, Abby Circatella.
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_00: And finally, thank you for listening in.
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_00: Until next time, happy cooking!