Latest / The BlackSheep Podcast: Presented by HM Magazine / Tiffany Lee: Plumb

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Tiffany Lee: Plumb · The BlackSheep Podcast: Presented by HM Magazine

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Today we have Tiffany from Plumb and super excited to chat with you. Tiffany,
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we connected, we were just talking about this, but we connected on
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Instagram a number of months ago, probably like maybe six months ago or so,
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and then you and I met at a conference in October that you happen
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to be at and I happen to be at. And I remember I came
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up after your performance and I was like, hey, Tiffany, I'm Mason,
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and you were like, oh my god, Mason, like we've been
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you know, and so anyway, it was a really cool moment to just
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like connect and so and knowing like things have changed in your life pretty significantly
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over the last few years. I was like, we need to get you
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on the podcast and just talk about where you're at now. So all that's
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to say, how are you doing today, Tiffany. I am doing well.
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Thank you. I'm I was so I was just like starstruck when I
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met you, because I was. I was because the things that you post
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are so like creative and thought provoking and honest and like, come on like
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you kind of you just like I I just respect it. I respect what
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you put out there and that you you know, he saves all of it.
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He saves all of it for the UH, for for Twitter with his
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friends. He doesn't have anything left. Yeah, I'm as boring as it
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comes. When it comes down, well, I just think I think that
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you are. You get into good trouble. I think that's what I would
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say. I think you get into good trouble, and so I respect that.
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I respect that. I'm gladly a troublemaker in all facets of life.
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Table flipper, that's right, Yeah, that's right. So well, I
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don't even really know where to begin other than like, let's start at the
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beginning of Plumb, or even maybe even before Plumb, Like how how did
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you really get in the music uh in early on in life and maybe what
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led you to eventually wanting to like start this project called Plumb. But yeah,
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let's even go like pre Plumb, just all the way back. Well,
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I'll try to not over explain, which is very hard for me.
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But I was born in Indianapolis. My dad his job shifted. He got
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a promotion to take us to Atlanta when I was eight, So I started
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third grade in Georgia, just south of the Atlanta airport and then lived there
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a year. After high school, I worked. I didn't go straight to
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college because I was about to go to San Diego to go to a college
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to major in nursing, and I knew in my gut I was just following
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a guy, and so I sort of dodged a bullet, did not go
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that year, and thought I'll just give it a year, And in that
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year I got opportunities. Where some people, you know, grow up playing
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sports, I grew up singing in church, singing at you know, choir,
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at school, any chance I could sing, if there was little talent
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shows or four ah, thing like anything related to music. I was just
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sort of involved. It took piano and clarinet and guitar and just loved music.
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Had absolutely no intention of doing it as a career ever. I was
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raised by my two parents, still together after almost sixty years. My mom
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was a stay at home mom. My dad worked for the airlines out of
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the Air Force, just into aeronautical everything, and so Delta Airlines was sort
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of like our life. And while he loved his job, he also I've
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told him this many times, I'm like, you complained about going to work
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all the time, and so I connected work is something you have to do,
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not something you get to do. So I loved singing, but like
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you don't really get to do what you love for a job. And I
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loved I really did love medicine. I was always interested in it. Was
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not an academic I wouldn't say. I mean, for a long time I
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said negative things to myself about my intelligence. But I'm not stupid. But
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I am definitely not. I just am not drawn to major academia. And
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so I am more social and communicative and expressive and artistic, and so I
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wanted to be a nurse. I did not really have the grades for that.
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Graduated high school and in that year got an opportunity to sing backup for
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a band. And it was just a couple, like they needed to fill
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in for a couple of shows. And then the one that we would maybe
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know. It's not one that I think that you would know, and I
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it's it is what it is, you know. I think years ago I
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would have been one to say I was. I'm sort of embarrassed, but
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now I'm like, you know what, It's just part of the story.
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So I grew up with Nazarene very devout evangelical parents. My grandfather was a
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Nazarene minister and so very ill. Let them know that we're drinking. We're
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drinking right now, beer, I wish. But yeah, So I grew
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up very like, you know, Grandpa is a Nazarene minister. My parents,
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you know, I'm raised in the Nazarene church, and my parents loved
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the Gathers. Yeah, Bill Gaither and stuff like that, right, yeah,
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oh yeah, like yeah, love and very long story short. Their
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friends had a son who married a girl who was singing back up and Bill
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Gaither's son's rock band and the other backup singer left and they needed someone else.
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And her husband, who obviously is the child of my parents' best friends,
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he's like, hey, doesn't you know, doesn't Tiffany sing? She's
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kind of taken it serious because she's like out of high school now and still
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doing it. And they were playing a show not far from my house,
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which is what kind of jogged his mem like his memory to be like,
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wait a minute, what about her? Maybe she could fill in? And
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so he suggested me to his fiance. I think maybe they might have been
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married by then, but anyway, he suggested me to her. She suggested
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me to Benji Gaither and then I filled in and I did a couple of
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shows and they're like, what do you want to keep doing this? And
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I was like, I just got paid sing to just do it for good
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grades. Yeah. So I'm nineteen, I'm working as a bank teller to
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just you know, create some independence, figuring out where I'm going to go
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to college next year. And then all of a sudden, it's like nope.
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And that because that led to them asking me to sing all the time.
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So then I moved back to Indiana where they're out of just briefly until
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I found a roommate and we moved to Nashville. But it was all because
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of the band. And then that band was sort of just a doorway into
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other artists using me to sing backup, and so an artist thing. Lisa
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Bevell a lot of people don't know this. This tells you my age a
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little bit, but she she was the voice of double dou wo, refreshment
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double w and Joel oh no single gum, double fresh and your mouth like
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doublement doublement gum. Anyway, she like, I think she did. I
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love what you do for me, toyota that if you're marrying that anyway,
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if you're like like what, then you're not my age. I love.
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I love a good jingle, especially Colin is a big jingle guy. So
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she was a jingle she was a jingle singer, and then she got a
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record deal. So now I'm singing back up for her. And then that
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led to there was, you know, an Amy Grant's making a record and
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her producer's like, hey, can I use you? And so then I'm
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singing on an Amy Grant record, and so it just backup singing led to
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a label calling me that I thought was for more backup singing. And so
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now I'm living in Nashville my little roommates, and I'm like selling my clothes
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to consignment, I'm teaching gymnastics, I'm nanny ing, I'm singing for you
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know, one hundred bucks of pop here and there, and I don't have
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hardly any expenses, and so I'm literally like living the greatest life ever.
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It's just super fun. And so I go to this label and I remember
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that I was dressed like a homeless person. I literally I didn't dress professionally
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at all. I was just like, oh, they probably just want to
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see how much I charge to sing backup, and they were like, would
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you like a record deal? And I was like what, And I mean
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we joke about this still because the A and R guy, Robert Reeson and
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I he was like, it really was. I saw you singing back up
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for someone and I was like, who's the curly headed like girl up there
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that's singing alto? And they told him who I was. He got my
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phone number, called me and I show up and he's like, well,
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we we only really have one main artist on our label. It's they're called
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Jars of Clay. And I was like, oh, he wants me to
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sing backup for Jars of Clay and he's like, no, I want to.
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I want to sign you, like I were having a lot of success
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in the general market with them, and we want to do something with a
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girl, And so they talked about candidly just maybe doing a girl duo thing.
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Do I know any other girls that I would want to sing with?
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Maybe do some sort of abba ace of bass style thing. And I remember
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being like, I don't know what's going on here? What and fast forward.
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I just ended up coming back to his office and I was like,
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I can't do this and he was like what and I said, well,
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I love to sing, but it feels like you're wanting to put together,
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like you know, we'll find a girl for you to sing with, We'll
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find songs. You guys can go out and do this thing. And it
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just feels very put together by you. And that's fine, that's there's no
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judgment there. But if I was ever going to do this, because I
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had never thought of doing it by myself ever, like ever, and I'm
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twenty twenty ish and I was like, but if I was, I would
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want it to be my thing, and I don't even know what that is.
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And so I'm just I'm going to pass because it just feels weird.
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I don't it doesn't feel and I didn't know that I was a four at
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the time, but I mean now I know that that's that's probably why,
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because it was like, I can't be something that someone else has created.
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I have to be myself. But I didn't know who that was. And
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so he calls me back a couple days later and I was like, yes,
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and he said, I have no idea what you will become, but
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the fact that you would turn down something because being true to yourself matters that
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much. It just makes me want to work with you and figure out what
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that is. So wow, would you still want to do this? And
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I was like, like a solo thing? And he was like yes,
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And I said, because I would not really even want to do a solo
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thing. I would want to be a band. And I love the band
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Garbage right now. I think Shirley Manson's just incredible and how butch Gag and
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the whole, the whole thing. I was like, I just I'm so
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inspired by that. And I love the Lantis and I love just all these
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things and I and while obviously she's a solo artist, I was I didn't
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see myself as this like solo pop singer. And he was like, well,
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do you write any songs? And I was like, no, nope.
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I loved poetry, I love storytelling. Maybe I could combine those two
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talents. But he was taking a huge risk on me. And so I
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found a lawyer. In the Yellow Pages, I signed my life away.
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And I say that just because my lawyer at the time he said, the
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only last point here that we have to iron out is your publishing. And
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you, guys, I said to him, what does that mean? I
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didn't even know what that meant, and he said, you're your catalog of
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songs and I was like, uh, they can have it because there is
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someone and there's this you know, little advance that you get for signing that.
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Well, I was thinking, like, I'm getting free money because there's
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nothing to give you. And fast forward, we're now signed and the process
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is moving along and they're making me like go, go write, go write,
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go write, and I'm like, I'm not a songwriter, and they
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were like, well, yes you are, so go and I was like,
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I'm not. These songs are going to suck, They're going to be
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horrible. What are you talking about? And so if you listen to the
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very very first Plumb record, those are the first songs I'd ever written in
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my life. And I was like, don't people usually write hundreds of songs
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and then if they finally get one published, like there's some sort of validation
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that comes. And I was like almost prematurely being validated. And so and
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the two and two didn't line up. That's like, Oh, they want
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me to write them because they'll own them and then they'll make all the money
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off that. Like, none of that, none of that. I'm just
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such a I am late to the game in so many ways often, and
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so I just am writing my out and recording this record, and this kind
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of brings me to where I am currently. But I don't want to skip
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ahead to your question. But I make the very first plumb album, so
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I believe in Jesus. But I came to them, like, very openly,
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like I don't really want to be CCM. I mean nothing against CCM,
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and I've listened to lots of CCM as a teenage girl and you know,
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growing up in the church, but I don't really see myself doing that.
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And because of what they had going on with Jars, it felt like
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they had an opportunity to sort of, oh, we can respect your faith,
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because all of us sort of agree about that, but we have,
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you know, the opportunities through you know Amy Grant kicking that door down many
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many years ago with Baby Baby too. Now what Jars is doing. So
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we're just gonna kind of you're going to be the rock chick that does it.
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And so okay, great and modern rock alternative is what it was called
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at the time. But anyhow I do that and I did not. This
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this is all now twenty five years later, thirty years later almost. I
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can tell you this now that I was a very big fish in a very
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small pond, if you are considering it CCM. But I'm a very small
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fish and a very very very big ocean over in the general market. And
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so the day that my first record came out the very same day, my
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my, I guess you would call it in my distribution, because I was
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both simultaneously CCM and general market. The same day a band that had never
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been heard of called the Backstreet Boys, a band called Blur, a band
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called the Sneaker Pimps, a girl named Brittney Spears, not sure if you've
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heard of her, and myself the five of us are released on the same
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day. Oh my god. And it's like one of these things is not
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like the other in the sense that like, I have all of this,
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you know, connection to this industry over here that's predominantly out of Nashville,
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that's faith based, and then the rest. And so they learned pretty quickly,
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you can make more money with her over here than over here. And
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I didn't really see that coming until the second record got made. And so
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no one knows this. I'm about to tell you something that no one but
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my parents and my kids and like two of my best friends. Know,
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are you ready general, yeah, okay, all right, So I make
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this second record, we start making the next album, and it's it's you
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know, I've had I've been at VH one and MTV in different places,
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doing interviews for satellite radio and lah blah blah blah. And I remember meeting
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Lino Richie and just being like, oh my gosh, this is just the
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best. By the way I did. When I met him, I was
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like, hello, that's all I said to them. That's all I said.
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And he was like, I got you. Yeah, I got you.
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Anyway, somebody listening will be like, what is she talking about?
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But but anyway, so you know, all of this is like it seems
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to be happening where it's like, oh, I feel like what I stand
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for is being respected and at the same time, I'm having an opportunity to
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you know, communicate my art to a larger audience. And so I was
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just kind of you know, back and forth. O. This festival is
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you know, Jesus Fest, and then this festival over here is I'm with
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veruk Assault and Kay's Choice and Collective Soul, and like just other artists that
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I was a fan of, and I was like, this is this is
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amazing. I'm touring. I toured a ton with Jars of Clay. We
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had the same manager, same business manager, same label, and so there
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was a lot of overlap. And I was sort of their like baby Sister
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and second albums, you know, trucking along. And now we're almost wrapping
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it up and I see a fax because I'm forty eight and we had fax
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machines. I see a fact that I don't know that I was supposed to
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see or not, but I was in my manager's office and I see it
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and it says, we have no intentions of marketing this to the general market.
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It can make more money in CCM. She has got to add the
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name God on there somewhere, and I was like, ew, like no,
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I'm not doing that. And so there's this big meeting and it's like,
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listen, you have to have one song on here at least that says
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God. And I was like, that's gross. I don't leave God's name
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out on purpose. I'm not leaving God's name out to be popular in this
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other industry. I'm also not going to add it in on purpose. For
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an industry like that doesn't feel real and authentic at all. And so they
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said, well, then we'll shelf it. If this album's called Candy Cood
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of water Drops, we're just going to put it on a shelf, and
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then you let us know when you change your attitude, because we're not really
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going to do that. And by the way, my manager and my A
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and R guy at the time, if you can imagine, as I'm sure
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you can, we had major conflict at this point, Like we're not friends,
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we're all mad and angry and not getting along, and we have made
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up and there's complete redemption in our relationships. Like they are huge fans of
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me and I love them, like currently we are currently friends now. Like
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we have gone back and said we were all very naive. There was greed,
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there was ignorance, there was you know, immaturity, There was all
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kinds of things going on, and we all made bad decisions. I could
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have been wiser as a business woman, but I was just super naive and
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super trusting, and they were a little greedy. Like they would even say,
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you know that participated in it, and they would love to go back,
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and you know, wouldn't we all but we can't. But we've learned
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from it, and we've grown from it, and we've actually completely restored our
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relationships. We're all friends. But at so I can say this really comfortably
17:49
because if they were even sitting here, they would agree with me that it
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was like, hey, we're just going to shelf this. And so this
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guy named Wayne Kirkpatrick, who a lot of people would know him from the
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Eric Clapton song change Your World. I can change the world. I wouldn't,
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okay, he wrote that. He's an amazing songwriter, super respected songwriter
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who I've never met to this day, but he writes a song called God
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Shaped Toll, and it's about a conversation that C. S. Lewis had
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with someone about within each of it a you know, inside each of us
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is this vacuum, if you will, that can just only be satisfied by
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our creator. And the label's like, that's it, that's what you're gonna
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do, You're gonna do, and I was like, no, I'm not
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doing that. I didn't write it and I am not doing it. And
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I lost that fight, and so they're like, you will do it.
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We own your publishing, so please make some changes so that you can be
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a co writer on it and it's going to go. And I was like,
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you know what, I'm going to do this, but I'm never going
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to play it live because it's not going to ever come out of mind.
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It's you know, I add a horrible attitude about it, and so I
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record it and then it ends up in freaking Bruce Almighty and it gets this
19:07
huge saying I do not remember that being in Bruce Almighty, but wow,
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the entire time they're broken up and they see each other's or she sees his
19:15
name everywhere or something. It's about three and a half minutes, which is
19:18
a very long sink usage in a film. And so you're hearing me saying
19:22
and the god Japa anyway, So I can I ask something really quick?
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What's it like recording a song that you really don't want to record? Brutal
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brute? It feels it felt like I was lying, And the only part
19:41
that kind of pushed me through was that, you know, conceptually, at
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the time, I was like, I don't I don't necessarily have some huge
19:49
disagreement with the song. It's not like it's not the contents. Yeah,
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it's like, yes, you just kept yeah, perfect. I mean it
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was it was the intent behind this. It could have been the greatest song
20:03
that's ever been written. And the fact that I was being forced to do
20:06
it and why just made me not happy about any of that. And so
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now, of course, you know, if a song makes its way out
20:15
of that little industry into the big world of the universe, CCM is like,
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oh my god, we gotta put that on the radio. So you
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know, now it's on Christian radio everywhere, and it's you know, everyone's
20:29
requesting it. And I remember talking to someone just very candidly one time about
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I was like, I'm not playing it, and they were like, well,
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you know, if people love it, like you know, your platform
20:38
is a gift, and you do want to give the fans what they want,
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and so like, just sing it, just sing it. So I
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would sing it occasionally and it would be in the set list occasionally. And
20:49
then I did a different version of it that was sort of, you know,
20:52
I don't know, sort of inspired by Cold Play. I remember thinking
20:56
like maybe it could be like we could make it cooler and try to make
21:00
it more me and so I and I did that, and I was like,
21:03
no, this still feels so weird and so all that to say,
21:08
I had an ethical dilemma. And by the way, what I also failed
21:15
to mention was and then the process of making Candy Code of water Drops,
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we went over to London and we went and recorded with the London Symphony Orchestra,
21:26
like all these strings on Candy Coode of water Drops the record, and
21:30
it's amazing. It was an incredible experience. I'm a huge strings fan.
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We come back, there's a song called Strange Ways that has these beautiful strings
21:38
on them. Tom Howard composed. He has since passed away. Amazing.
21:44
They cut the song to make room for God Shaped Holl. So I find
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out two and a half months ago, literally to about two and a half
21:59
months ago, that Candy Cod of water Drops is turning twenty five in April,
22:03
and I decide to re record it. But I've left off God Shaped
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Toll and it's gots that's right. Hell yeah, so that is that is
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what no one else knows. And now you know, I literally and true
22:18
story. I went to the old label because I left that label after that
22:22
record and I don't know anyone there anymore. And I told him the situation.
22:26
I was like, listen, there's a song and you have it.
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The producer can't find it. I can't find it. Our co writer can't
22:30
find it. We don't even remember what it's called. Like we didn't even
22:34
know the title. I was like, I remember it was like something no,
22:40
And I was like, what is it called? And we have not
22:41
One of our co writers doesn't even he's not even a music anymore. He's
22:45
a wine connoisseur. And he's like, I don't even remember that song.
22:48
And I was like, we put strings on it, like we spent money
22:52
putting strings on it in England, like it was that important, and none
22:56
of us even remember the name of it. So I'm back and forth with
22:59
the old label and I was like, please go into the vault, please
23:00
find it for me. And so I spent weeks on a daily basis asking
23:06
questions of people that could possibly know, like, hey, I know you
23:08
don't work there anymore, but do you remember this situation it replaced? You
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know, God shaped toll is what it replaced or whatever. No one can
23:15
find it. And finally, this soul of a person, I mean,
23:18
she's like a Jedi in the vault of where I don't even know. I
23:26
actually want to take her to lunch, and I want to hear like,
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what did you do to find this? Like the actual strategy. But I
23:32
get this email that says, here are all the track listings that we have
23:34
on file for you. Does anything on here stand out as not recorded?
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And I'm going through and it's all the first record, all the second record,
23:42
and then I see Strange Ways, and I was like, that's it.
23:47
That's it. So then that's only the title. So now we only
23:51
know the title. Then it proceeds. They find the audio, and the
23:53
audio we never mixed it, and so you actually hear the string player's pages
23:59
turning nice, and you hear like an upright bass play a wrong note at
24:03
the end, and you hear the conductor going like that's a wrap, like
24:07
like it is so raw and beautiful, and I guess as an artist,
24:11
like you just like that stuff is so gold, it's just so and so
24:15
I have I've actually finished the song and re record. So I found my
24:21
you know, co writing buddies, and I was like, guys, it
24:22
was called Strange Ways and this is how it went. And they were like,
24:26
oh, oh my gosh, I totally forgot about it. So that's
24:30
a sweet little nugget on there that that some fans will be excited to hear,
24:33
and then the people that love God Shaped Hole will be upset about.
24:37
But here's what I've decided. Yeah, well, yeah, I was gonna
24:41
say, if you love God Shaped Hole, you love CCM, and that's
24:45
okay. You don't love Plumb, you love c That's a statement right there.
24:51
That's a that's a that's a very like firm stance. I think that's
24:55
that's a twist, but it's true. It really is true though, So
24:57
I'm like, I'm not judging anyone for like that song, and if you
25:00
do love that song, then you probably love that genre of music and that's
25:04
wonderful and it's there for you. There's even a different version than I made
25:07
back in I think it was like twenty ten or something. So by all
25:11
means, listen, go watch the movie Knock your Heart Out. But this
25:15
is the song that was supposed to be on there, and it's called Strangeways.
25:18
So anyhow, I don't know if I've full circled it yet, but
25:22
I left that label. I re signed and owned all my publishing at that
25:27
point and have ever since, and so I feel like re recording Candy Cood
25:33
of water Drops is not just because it's turning twenty five, and I just
25:36
realized that a couple of months ago. It was literally this beautiful moment in
25:40
the universe where I have felt like where do I start over? And it
25:45
was like, right there, because that's actually where I left off. That's
25:48
where I was advocating for myself. Then. I was standing up for myself
25:53
about God Shaped Toll, even though I did record it, and I hope
25:56
people can understand that you have just so much power and everybody owns everything.
26:02
But I was fighting for myself and I was trying to learn who I was
26:06
and be authentic to that, and so that was getting taken away a little
26:08
bit. And then I think I was weary and I lost myself. And
26:15
so that doesn't mean from that point till now that it's all been not real.
26:19
It's been as real as I've been able to present it. And I
26:26
feel like I'm being given a chance to go back to that girl that was
26:32
standing up for herself saying I don't want to put this song on this record.
26:37
I'm being able to go back and reimagine those songs like they meant this
26:41
at the time, but now they actually mean this. And although I've written
26:45
lots of songs and made lots of records since then, this is like a
26:49
whole like the wrecking ball came in and took everything out, and I've sifted
26:55
through that rubble and I've found things that were still mine or that are still
27:00
true to me, and I've just been like, Okay, let's start over,
27:04
and I think I can still sing. I love my kids, I
27:10
still love God. I don't believe the way that I used to believe because
27:15
all these platitudes that I would utilize, and these prayers that I would pray,
27:19
and these things that I would say that I believed, a lot of
27:22
those things didn't stand up because I did the things I'm supposed to do and
27:26
I didn't do some of the things that I'm not supposed to do, and
27:30
somehow my life is literally just flat. It's been flattened. And so it
27:37
just made me do a whole whole lot of inner work on myself. And
27:41
that has caused me to examine not just my faith, but myself as a
27:45
woman in this world, empowered in what I want to communicate as an artist
27:51
and as someone who still loves Jesus, by the grace of God. I
27:55
still believe in Jesus, but I'm not sure everything else that I believe in.
28:00
And I've found my faith deeper being completely uncertain. And I mean I
28:10
was I was raised with such certainty, and I feel like faith is not
28:15
certainty, right, it's actually saying I don't know. And so the very
28:19
very evangelical upbringing that I had, it didn't it didn't help this make make
28:26
sense. And so and there's some political things that obviously, you know,
28:30
just reinforced some of that that was like really like, what's what's happening to
28:34
our world here? And so I think as that as my eyes have been
28:37
open, I've lost a whole bunch of you know, fans. I've used
28:41
quotes because I feel like I love Sarah MacLaughlin and she could say that poop
28:49
is great to eat on her Instagram. I would still follow her because I
28:55
love her voice. I love how she sounds when she sings. I I
29:00
don't think pop is great to eat, but knock yourself out right, And
29:04
it's interesting to me, Like in my platform, I went to a Pride
29:08
parade because in this whole you know, evolution of my faith in my life,
29:15
the reimagining of all of it and rebuilding all of it. I was
29:19
like, I have always had a very significant percentage of fans from the LGBTQ
29:27
community, and I've always been hopefully loving and kind. I haven't always known
29:33
what I even believed about that, and then I was told to kind of
29:37
keep it to myself if I didn't think it was a sin, of which
29:41
I do not. My eyes are just like, oh my gosh, all
29:45
the injustice in the world just starts connecting with me on a level that it
29:51
hadn't before. And all I can say is, I'm sorry to anyone in
29:56
those margins that I didn't see, and I know we don't. No one
29:59
has a band and with to empathize with each and every single solitary you know,
30:04
injustice in the world. But if it's in front of me, I
30:08
want to be more faithful with that. And I have had such a not
30:15
just because I've had a following there, but I've had a following in that
30:18
community where they connected with my music because it was mostly about you know,
30:23
brokenness and hard things and maybe some things that other artists maybe weren't talking about,
30:29
and that they felt connected and that's a privilege that I really really value.
30:34
But I have been censored for a very long time by the suits.
30:38
I used to call them the suits. It's like the people that kind of
30:41
own you, that are like, hey, don't say that it's political.
30:44
Hey, don't say that. You know, K Love won't play you,
30:49
Please don't play me. Actually because I don't. I don't connect with their
30:57
business model. So that's great, not your I mean, I know I
31:03
keep saying that, but I had someone tell me recently, like, why
31:07
do you want to It seems like you want to send your CCM fans away,
31:11
And I was like, oh, no, no, no, no,
31:14
it's completely opposite. I feel like I want to make place at the
31:17
table for everybody. And I have been at a table where I've wanted everyone
31:22
to feel welcome and I've wanted them to belong, but there's been restrictions in
31:26
my life that have made it where, well, I can't really invite that
31:29
person to sit here, but then if I do, I do take that
31:33
risk, this person will leave, and then that's not good. And I'm
31:37
at a place where I can just say everyone is welcome and they belong at
31:41
this table, and if that makes you uncomfortable, I encourage you to leave.
31:45
But every marginalized group of people, I want them to not just feel
31:49
welcome, I want them to feel like they belong here. And I have
31:52
been a part of an industry and end in my faith just as a human
31:59
in the world that has been judgmental. It has been privileged, it has
32:02
been short sighted, it has been wrong. I believe that it's it's just
32:08
it's been completely inaccurate in so many different ways. And so instead of being
32:15
the opposite of that, where I'm I'm a judgmental liberal, I don't want
32:19
to do that. I'd rather say, you know what, I don't think
32:22
I was right back there. And I'm not saying I'm right now, but
32:25
I am saying I don't think that I was right back there. And I
32:28
want my life to be more loving and more kind and not harmful. And
32:34
if something is harmful to someone, then it doesn't connect with who I believe
32:39
Jesus to be. And I'm still a fan of him, and so it's
32:43
kind of where I'm at. Honestly, the most controversial thing I think you
32:49
said about that is the fact that you'd still listen to Sarah McLaughlin even if
32:52
she thought that poop was great to eat. I mean, I'm just saying
32:59
to separate the art from the artist. It's the you know what I mean.
33:06
It's like if you're following me for I don't know, if you're following
33:12
me for a social I mean, I know it's called social media, but
33:15
I music artists. I tend to follow them for lots of different reasons,
33:21
and so I don't have to agree with them politically or spiritually or social.
33:25
There's certain things now, there are certain things that if somebody was like all
33:29
about there's non starters, right yeah, yeah, well yeah, and I
33:32
just but at the same time, like, it's been interesting to me that
33:36
when I was talking about the Pride Parade, because the culture I grew up
33:39
in, you have a judgment about something but you've actually never experienced it.
33:43
So I went my priest. I go to an Anglican church now, And
33:47
my priest said to me, which is an affirming, inclusive church, by
33:52
the way, I would not belong to one that isn't now. And he
33:55
said, if you don't understand something, draw it close. And if you
33:58
don't understand it, still keep drawing it closer. But you never have to
34:00
understand it, to be kind, and the church that I have been a
34:05
part of just you know, universally in my life, if you didn't understand
34:09
something, you push it away instead of drawing it closer and closer and closer.
34:15
So if it's a drag queen or if it's an immigrant, it's like,
34:20
it doesn't matter. Whatever it is that you don't understand, try to
34:22
understand, try to empathize, and if you still don't and you're just kind
34:27
of confused, you can still be kind. And I just feel like the
34:30
kind of kind that I was raised in was harmful. It wasn't kind.
34:38
And my definition of kind is it's not in the Webster's dictionary. But I
34:43
would say that if it's true and it's good for someone, it's kind.
34:47
But if it's not true, or if it's not good for them or both,
34:51
it's not. And you can be nice and that not even be kind.
34:53
And so I want to be kind. That's Minnesota. People's being nice
35:00
but not kind. Well, yes, yeah, I guess some of them
35:04
are kind, but now their drivers aren't. I've gotten more middle fingers over
35:08
in that state. Oh my gosh. Well, anyway, I just for
35:14
the places that I had when when I haven't been kind as my eyes are
35:19
open to that, I don't think. I think now there's two kinds of
35:22
people in the world that the ones that you maybe realize that you could have
35:29
been wrong, and you're like, oh, man, I want to draw
35:31
that in closer. I want to know more, tell me more, help
35:35
me understand, and I would like to be on the right side of history
35:37
here. And then the people that are like this is how my parents believe,
35:42
this is how my grandparents believe. I will always believe this way,
35:45
that that I'm not going to change my mind. This is who I am,
35:49
doesn't matter if I have new information. And Thomas Jefferson, when I
35:52
was taking this tour of DC with my daughter for a school trip, Thomas
35:57
Jefferson and the Jefferson Memorial had this huge quote from him that I had never
36:00
read before, and I'm going to miss quote it right now, but it
36:02
says something to the effect that you cannot expect the man to still wear the
36:08
little boy's coat. That if we don't evolve and change with time, then
36:14
the incredible harm that we do to the world is there. And I just
36:19
remember sitting there and I started to weep, and my daughter was like,
36:21
what is happening to you? And I said, well, even here,
36:24
like this is a very very very very long time ago that this quote was
36:28
made best. But this says to me that if we do not continue to
36:32
not just be willing, but like ready and eager to evolve and grow,
36:37
my upbringing says, oh, you know, you're you're changing, you're compromising.
36:43
It's a slippery slope, and you know, no, I think that
36:46
it's gracious and it's kind to do that and say, you know what,
36:51
as we have new information and new experiences, we change and we grow.
36:53
And if we don't learn to try to understand other people that we may or
36:59
may not relate to, like, that's so selfish and it's so unkind,
37:04
and it's not at all like Jesus if you want to say, you're a
37:07
fan of him, and so yeah, anyway, I'm all over the place
37:13
right there. I like that. Well, it actually reminded me of another
37:15
Thomas Jefferson quote and that he said that question everything including your God, you
37:22
know, like it's it's it's part of the natural processes of things. If
37:27
you're not there's there's probably something quite wrong, right And By the way,
37:32
I have not done a bunch of research on Thomas Jefferson, So if he
37:36
was this horrible person, you can you feel free to He did. He
37:39
did a few not so good things, but but I just say that he
37:44
didn't have these little nuggets of wisdom either. Right, people are not black
37:47
and white. It was just a great quote. I was like, oh,
37:51
you know, we have to be willing to evolve and change and but
37:53
yeah, as I said that, I was like, wait a minute,
37:55
I could have just hey, if you think Sarah McLoughlin can be into poop
38:01
eating, then Thomas Jefferson gets off the hook too for you. Oh man,
38:09
I'm never gonna let let you live that down. That is that was
38:14
so you know what, and you would be you would be right in not
38:16
letting me live that down. It just came to my mind. I'm just
38:19
thinking of something like I've been in interviews too where it's like you're you just
38:22
like don't know where you're gonna go with something, where you just say,
38:24
all right, well, this is just gonna be ridiculous and I'm gonna have
38:28
to accept it. So I love it. One of the things I want
38:32
to kind of get to like specifically the music stuff right here, and we
38:36
talked a lot about kind of your faith evolution and kind of where you're at
38:38
now. One of the things that's really interesting about your career that you don't
38:44
see very often is obviously a lot of people would maybe know you in the
38:49
late nineties early two thousands around like the CCM world, right, but then
38:53
like at least recently have had one of your most popular songs. And so
38:59
that's probably like twenty five plus years from like the time that you had your
39:02
first album to now one of your most popular songs. It's pretty at least
39:07
on Spotify. And obviously that that's not it's gonna like skew things or whatever,
39:12
but that is to say, like, that's pretty impressive that you can
39:15
like go twenty five years into your career and you're still making songs that are
39:17
connecting to a really wide audience and and people really love you. Don't see
39:22
a lot of artists still making music that twenty five years later people are like,
39:29
that might be the best thing you've ever written. And also you you
39:32
know, the plays and the streams and whatnot like actually reflect that. So
39:37
I think that's a really interesting part of your career is the fact that you've
39:40
had over all of the like then the three or so decades that you've been
39:45
making music, there are these kind of like these moments where people like really
39:50
appreciate, like a few songs or two that seem to be really really important,
39:54
and you get that consistently. You don't see a lot of artists doing
39:58
that. So anyway, I just wanted to to kind of throw that out
40:00
there, And I don't know if you have reflections on that, but I
40:02
think that's a really cool part of your career, and you don't see a
40:05
lot of artists, especially from the world of the CCM world, still have
40:08
that kind of stained power of still writing really really popular music. Well,
40:13
that is incredibly kind of you to say and to even acknowledge. I I
40:19
think part of it is because of what I was saying a second ago,
40:22
of me kind of finding myself in front of everybody. So there has been
40:29
like with each record, I'm not sure if there's anyone consciously out there doing
40:35
this, but there's almost this unconscious like what is she gonna do now?
40:38
Like what is this going to be like? Because the first album was very
40:44
rock and then I incorporated some pop and then you know, a couple of
40:47
albums later, I was making a lullaby record because I was super pregnant and
40:52
had a little baby. And then and then I went through this like I'm
40:57
gonna make a worship album phase. I don't know what that was about anyway.
41:00
I because I'm not a worship artist. I love Jesus. I do
41:07
not identify as a worship artist. And and just literally figuring things out.
41:16
I've heard people say like, kind of figure it out and then go blah
41:20
blah blah. I maybe I should or shouldn't do this, but I kind
41:24
of do it. I'm doing it in this interview right now, like figuring
41:28
it out where I'm just like, should I have said poop? You know?
41:30
Like, but I, I mean there's maybe that's endearing to some people.
41:36
I don't know, but I think that I've I've been transparent. I
41:40
think that's probably something that I I would say that more often than not.
41:47
I've had managers and label people take me aside and say, you have got
41:52
to stop saying this, and you can't say that, and I but I
41:57
keep doing it, and it's not to be rebellious. It's I think part
42:00
of it is just to who I am, and it's like, oh gosh,
42:05
why'd she say that? I wish she hadn't said And then somehow that
42:08
I think it's a realness that I'm trying. I'm trying to be real and
42:15
I think this is the most uncensored I've ever felt, and the most and
42:22
I feel like the most myself that I've ever felt. I've done more internal
42:27
work than I've ever done, and so I don't know, I just I
42:31
don't have a good answer to that. I'm honestly, just really really thankful
42:36
that anyone still listens or cares. I'm thankful that I've put things out in
42:40
the past that have still maintained a relevancy. And I've always felt like relevancy
42:49
is directly connected to the word honest and true. Like when someone's like trying
42:55
to make a really relevant record, be yourself, like, just be true
43:00
to yourself, because that's always relevant. I think what is true is just
43:05
always going to be relevant in some way. It's not about a trend,
43:09
and I think it's you know, that's when you hear about one hit wonders
43:12
like no one even remembers who they were, and it was this one song,
43:15
and maybe it made a whole bunch of money, but they didn't sustain
43:19
any kind of career because it wasn't really rooted in the truthfulness of who they
43:22
were. And that's it's not really a slam to that artist, but it's
43:25
like, why don't we ever hear from them or what happened to them?
43:29
Why aren't they still doing it anymore? And it was probably because it was
43:31
just about that song, like it was about that moment and not so much
43:35
about who they are. And this is just who I am, I sing
43:39
in songwrit and I want to continue to do that until my last breath,
43:44
even if a lot more people are listening than ever or a lot less people,
43:47
if there's still people listening, Like any platform, regardless of its size,
43:52
is just an complete, humbling honor to me, just that I would
43:58
be entrusted with any kind of audience that someone would be inspired by or helped
44:02
by. And Candy Coated water Drops was written, not just bringing it back
44:08
to promote that. By the way, it really is relevant to what I
44:12
was about to say that when I was re recording it and reimagining it,
44:15
like it's production is entirely one hundred percent different, and there's Easter eggs on
44:22
there that my producer Dave calls. He calls them easter eggs because I've changed
44:25
a lyric where I've changed a word or a pronoun or I've done something that
44:30
you're like, if you know that record, well, you're like, ohh
44:36
And it's so interesting how all of it relates to what I'm going through now
44:43
in this really interesting kind of way. But it's been really healing. And
44:46
so that is one of my answers for one of your questions later. Well
44:54
along those lines, then kind of maybe what could we expect in terms of
44:59
new music? Sounds like something has been recently re recorded if you will,
45:04
Yeah, yeah, what do you want to tell people about what the future
45:07
music of Plumb is? Well, so this just sort of, as I
45:14
mentioned earlier, when I looked up as I looked its birthday up on Wikipedia,
45:17
I didn't even remember when it came out, and I was like,
45:20
oh my god, April thirteenth, twenty nineteen. I was like, oh,
45:25
I should do this, and so we had to kind of move quickly
45:29
on it. And so that was the stepping stone, and I feel like
45:31
it was It's not by accident that like I'm kind of starting where I left
45:37
off, and so I feel like this is really appropriate to go back and
45:45
kind of start from there. However, in the midst of all of that,
45:49
I have been writing new stuff, and there's a brand new song that
45:57
is coming out post Candy Coated water Drops Reimagined, which, by the way,
46:02
there's those Easter eggs. There's the new song nobody knows about. There's
46:05
a whole other song that I mean, if we have time or if you
46:09
want to talk about it, or we can even talk about another time,
46:12
but that there's a funny a funny story about something. So there's a twelfth
46:16
track when it was only an eleven track record, and there's a reason that
46:19
that's on there too. So there's there's a lot of fun kind of new
46:22
stuff with this Reimagined record, but there's all brand new stuff talking about the
46:29
last four years of my life and that. The lead contender is a song
46:35
called Fighter And it was the most polite way that I could say, eat
46:44
shit it. It was the most polite way that I could just say,
46:50
you messed with the wrong girl and probably shouldn't have done that. And I'm
46:55
going to be better for it, and I want to inspire some people out
47:00
there that have been really harmed that they're going to be okay. And I
47:06
there is so many days that I didn't want to wake up the next day,
47:09
and I have all of this induced a tremendous amount of anxiety. For
47:15
me, I've been struggling with anxiety in a way that I had never known
47:19
before. And I'm just I'm just a different person and I just But at
47:28
the same time, a friend of mine, this relates to your question of,
47:30
like, what's in the future that that girl that I was, you
47:37
know, twenty five thirty years ago, kind of reconnecting with her and taking
47:43
everything I've learned and putting it so it's almost like, Okay, go back
47:46
there, but then take all this stuff you you know, educated yourself with
47:50
and have been empowered with, and then fuel it into her and be able
47:54
to give that to the next generation. Because I'm I'm not a hundredyears old,
48:00
but I'm not twenty and I'm not trying to reinvent myself. I'm not
48:04
trying to be anything but myself. And I am currently a forty eight year
48:08
old single mother of three who has been through a tremendous amount of trauma and
48:14
harm, and I want to use it for good. Like if my life
48:17
ended tomorrow, I would want to have given more than I took, and
48:21
just all the shit that I go through be able to give back and take
48:27
something some kind of silver lining from There's not a silver lining to everything,
48:30
by the way, but there is with some and I'm trying to do the
48:34
best I can with that. And so with that said, I have plans
48:39
to release that, And so if that turns into tours, great, if
48:45
it turns into you know, sinks and you know streaming and all the different
48:50
I mean, music is just evolving so quickly too, and I I'm just
48:53
so open to whatever it looks like. You know, Lee Nash and I
48:57
have kind of talked about how like we should go do something together just as
49:00
chicks. Sometime that might come out. Oh yeah, we're just we're just
49:05
friends and we've you know, experienced some similar things. But that would just
49:09
be that's just something kind of fun that we've chatted about. But a six
49:14
pence and plumb tour, I'm all about that. It'd be amazing, it
49:16
would be fun. It would be fun. A lot of I mean a
49:21
lot of us from that kind of that era. I mean, switch Foot
49:25
Jars, We just had some similar stories. We were all about the same
49:30
age. We were all like, we're musicians, we love Jesus, but
49:34
then there's this label thing wanting us to do this, but we kind of
49:37
want to do this. And from what I know of the friends that I
49:42
have in the industry that were in that space, none of us wanted to
49:45
be famous, none of us wanted to be rich. We all like just
49:49
loved music and we felt like the CCM bubble was just inhibiting. It wasn't
49:55
about you know, fame and fortune as much as it was like a kind
50:00
of narrows your audience a little bit, and can it can kind of pigeonhole
50:06
you from just more people hearing it and being inspired by it, enjoying it
50:09
and sharing it. And it was just so you know, that mixture of
50:14
I did an interview with Gadar magazine one time, and right afterwards they were
50:21
like, no, don't tell anyone you did that interview, and I was
50:24
like, what the hell? Like so you like me, this is going
50:31
to be way worse than Gadar by the way I'm just saying, But like
50:37
you want it's almost like they thought it was cool that, you know,
50:40
something outside of CCM was taking an interest. But then they were like,
50:44
but don't but didn't don't tell CCM you did it, And I was like,
50:47
nothing about this feels honest, And so I think, I don't know.
50:53
Honestly, Mason, I feel like one of the one of the things
50:57
that might keep people coming back, and I hope that they do. I'm
51:00
so humbled and grateful for the people that do. Is that I am truthful.
51:07
Where I've had to feel censored, that has been like inhibiting, and
51:12
I don't feel that way anymore. So I guess here we go. But
51:15
even in my censored ship, I'm still truthful about life and I want to
51:22
talk about hard things and because I've needed people to talk about hard things,
51:29
and it's given me the wills to live sometimes my own self. And so
51:35
I don't know. I'm just just grateful and I'm going to see what happens.
51:38
And yeah, well, I'm looking forward to the new music. You're
51:45
ready to be truthful about your top five most influential albums? You ready for
51:50
this? Yes? I think so? Okay, Awesomely, there you go.
51:52
We do have about ten minutes before our next interview. So okay,
51:55
ready to go. So top five most influential albums of Tiffany's life. Let's
52:02
hear it. Patty Griffin Flaming Red Ooh some Patty Griffin. I love that.
52:12
Do you have Do you have anything you want to say, like when
52:15
was like the first time you had heard that album? Or did you want
52:16
to say anything more about that? Well, I don't know that we have
52:21
time, but I the song Tony is my if I could only pick one
52:28
song on a deserted island to have to listen to every day, over and
52:30
over and over and over again, there's a song on there called Tony.
52:34
And while it is not the most socially appropriate song to sing live, and
52:40
I think she would probably say the same thing, but she talks about there
52:46
was a gay boy in her class and she was sitting behind him and she
52:54
knew the weight of the world that was on him and how he was bullied
52:58
and sing she had just stepped forward and been like, hey, you're not
53:05
by yourself and you've got a friend. And he took his life and you
53:08
know it was it was written about in the local paper, and you know,
53:13
she uses the F word derogatory term related, and it's just it's so
53:19
gut wrenchingly honest. And I loved that about it, that she was connecting
53:24
to something so real and honest and hard, but that I knew was going
53:30
to give hope to anyone that related to that. But not just that song,
53:36
the whole record was. I mean, I just want to be mindful
53:39
of our time. I guess because of it's it's my favorite record of all
53:43
time. The whole record is my favorite record of all time. But the
53:47
song Tony is unbelievable and elanis Mooresett's Dagged Little Pill. I mean, I
53:54
I'm forty eight years old, like I was. I was the generation that
53:59
it came out, and I bought the CD and I went to hear her
54:01
live, and I remember her not dressing like a sex symbol. She had
54:06
a T shirt and jeans on because she wanted you to hear what she had
54:08
to say. And I was like, I respect that, I dress however
54:13
you want, but when you're showing off your titties, nobody's focused on what
54:16
you're saying as much. And so I mean they might be beautiful, like
54:22
show them off all you want, I don't care but I have a tendency
54:25
to pay attention to what you're saying when you're not necessarily putting them in my
54:29
face either. So I just love that she was unapologetic. And oh,
54:35
I was gonna say about Elena's isn't that isn't jagged little pill? Like about
54:39
Joey from full House because didn't they date. I don't know. I'm pretty
54:45
sure that whole album is about him, and I'm like Joey from full House
54:49
that like, cut it out, guy, that's oh my god, I'm
54:52
pretty sure that's what it's about. I don't know. I can't listen to
54:57
that album now, Joey at least at least let it be John Stamus Mason.
55:05
Why do you have to kill that for us? I'm sorry, Yeah,
55:07
no, I've never heard that. I've never heard that. Okay,
55:10
sorry, so I said Patty Griffin, Alanis Morissette, Susan Vega nine Objects
55:17
of Desire. The name Plum comes from a Susann Vegas song called My Favorite
55:22
Plum, and Uh, she's poetic and she is in metaphor, but she's
55:29
also pointed and she's also vulnerable, and that's a really unique combination to have.
55:34
I think in an artist as a writer, and so I just that
55:37
album was really influential on me wanting to get closer to the mic. And
55:44
when I saw him write if I don't have like a mic to go and
55:46
you know, put headphones on and like sing into the mic and hear how
55:50
the song's going to go, I take my glasses and I put them right
55:52
here, so that my I mean, if you want to do this later,
55:55
you can. Everyone do it. But if you put your your glass
56:00
is here and you talk, you're the audio of your voice goes straight back
56:02
into your ears and it sounds so crisp and close and intimate. And that's
56:07
how Suzanne records her vocal. And so sometimes to be more inspired by my
56:14
lyric, I will put my glasses like that while I'm songwriting. But but
56:19
that's not because Suzanne does it, but her album made me do that to
56:24
kind of create that intimate vocal that she puts out there. I mean,
56:28
she's the girl. Okay that a three number. Also, by the way,
56:35
I did look up, Yes, Alanis Morris did date Dave Collier.
56:39
Collier for a short time and the song You Ought to Know is about him.
56:46
Wow, why Joe Joey from Full House. Cut it out. That's
56:52
what the song should have been called. Cut it you ought to know you
56:58
should cut it out. Oh my gosh, oh my gosh. Okay,
57:00
and I have to give you more, write two more. So I let
57:05
me see, let me see, well I mean and this is not involving
57:12
well, actually it is. So I think that Candy Coat of water Drops
57:16
would probably be in there because it was the first album where I had now
57:22
made a record, I had written some songs, I had some experience,
57:25
and then I was faced with the whole god shaped, whole situation and learning
57:32
to find my own voice, not just to sing songs I wrote, but
57:37
like what do I want to say? And so here's a song I could
57:40
sing, but I wouldn't want to sing this. And so it was the
57:45
first album I was faced with my own quest for authenticity. And then now
57:52
reimagining it, it's like I still hear her in there, and she I
57:57
wrote a song on that record called drug Store Jesus about frauds, and it
58:00
is more relevant right this moment than it's ever been to me. And so
58:07
I think that is has been really, really really important in my life in
58:12
a way that I would not have thought so two or three months ago.
58:14
So you asked me that question, this would be the first time I've ever
58:16
been thought of it being that way. And then another one. I would
58:22
probably say, if I can only pick one more, this is really hard,
58:28
you guys, I will say, if you do, if you do
58:32
one more female centric, you will have the first female only list in Blacksheet
58:39
podcast history. Well, I was going to say, well, you say
58:45
that, and then now I feel like I have to tell you a girl.
58:46
I know that's because I want you to do it. Okay, Okay,
58:52
I could give you another I mean, I can do that if you
58:54
want to. You don't have to, you do not have to. Well,
58:58
oh this is so hard. I don't know why this is so difficult.
59:00
Well, I was going to, actually, you know what, I
59:04
gotta be honest. I was going to say a dude, And so I'm
59:07
going to say, I'm gonna say a dude. The Collective Soul record Dosage
59:15
was I was like, I want to be a girl with a band behind
59:22
me like that, Like I want to sound like that and that whole I
59:28
knew every song off of that record. I know you're a guy knows how
59:32
to write a chorus. He does, and so I had the chance to
59:37
open for them one time, and I mean I was just like, I
59:42
love this, I love I love this record. I love his voice,
59:45
and so yeah, I would probably say like to know it front and back,
59:50
like I just listened. I played the crap out of that record.
59:52
I loved it so much for some reason. So there's one more of it.
59:58
But I mean, after we hang up, I'm just gonna be like,
1:00:00
oh my gosh, why didn't I say this exactly? Why didn't I
1:00:04
say Sarah McLaughlin. I mean, why you could say that. I mean,
1:00:07
you could say fumbling towards ecstasy. I mean, I don't know.
1:00:12
I don't know now, see now I can't even it might have to be
1:00:15
Sarah maclachlin plumbing towards extity. And that's not just to satisfy your question,
1:00:20
but I would. I took voice lessons somewhere in like eleventh grade or so.
1:00:25
My parents were like, we think maybe you should take them, and
1:00:28
I was like, well, I think I know how, and they were
1:00:30
like, well, they can teach you how to breathe and warm up and
1:00:31
do whatever. So I took voice lessons for a minute, and he tried
1:00:36
to get rid of my crack. My duh. He's like, no,
1:00:40
no, duh, duh, Like he was, he worked with me to
1:00:44
get rid of it, and I couldn't get rid of it. And when
1:00:45
I heard that that whole well not just that record, but when I heard
1:00:51
Sarah maclachlin sing and she has that crack, I was like, hold on,
1:00:54
And so I wasn't trying to be like Sarah maclachlin. I have that
1:00:58
crack in my voice. She has as well, and she made me feel
1:01:02
like that was okay, And so I would have to probably give her some
1:01:07
props there for that. So the cranbrand, did you get it from the
1:01:09
Cranberry's Maybe a little bit too. No, but I love them. I
1:01:14
loved them so much. I mean, then the Cardigans and yeah, you
1:01:17
know, all that generation of music is just it's still so garbage. Like
1:01:22
you mentioned before, that whole scene of music that thatn was so good,
1:01:28
It really was, and so it was. I still listened to a lot
1:01:31
of it, and so I mean, I have teenagers, and so I
1:01:35
get to be around a lot of new music and I can be you know,
1:01:39
honestly, some of it's really great, and then some of it's just
1:01:43
like not my thing, you know, but I get it. I get
1:01:46
it. Yeah, Tiffany, what do you want to play? Obviously the
1:01:50
re release is coming out in April you said, right, yes, April
1:01:52
thirteenth. Candy Coad of Waterdrops reimagined it. And then is there any possibility
1:01:59
for shows that to happen around that? Yeah, there are. I'm streaming
1:02:04
the whole record live that night, it so, uh that will be happening,
1:02:09
and then shows from there. I'm I'm just kind of waiting on all
1:02:15
that to happen. So I'm sort of a one woman show for the most
1:02:19
part right now. My team is really tiny and I'm just rebuilding everything so
1:02:25
like new new management, new booking. Knew all of that, and so
1:02:30
so yeah, we'll see I hope. So Tiffany, anything else you'd like
1:02:34
to plug? Well? I am dating ooh yeah. And so most people
1:02:45
would know him from uh house, Well, no, most people would know
1:02:51
him from being the drummer in Nirvana, but Dave Grohl from the food Wow,
1:02:58
it's my boo. Holy. Most people only like still know him only
1:03:04
as the drummer of of Nirvana and not the frontman for food fighters, right,
1:03:10
I mean, but yeah, I mean my my son's friend and my
1:03:16
son's friend's dad and he here good friends and wow, just what what does
1:03:22
a first date with Dave go look like? Uh? Food? Barbecue?
1:03:28
Oh yeah, I mean a lot of barbecue. But he's good. Can
1:03:31
I ask a personal question? Maybe? Maybe a question? Yes? What
1:03:37
is does he still have a chin behind his beard? I have to protect
1:03:47
his privacy. I can't tell you that. Okay, Okay, you know,
1:03:50
kiss and tell. The fans are dying to know. So, but
1:03:54
all the all the congratulations to you. That sounds that sounds fantast I bet
1:04:00
it's a real riot. Thank you. Wow geez, I mean my dog
1:04:05
is excited about it, literally going. I mean, I don't I don't
1:04:09
blame the dog. I mean, Dave Role in your life, I would
1:04:12
be. I'd be barking too. I had like a celebrity crush line forever,
1:04:17
and so we had to kind of get past that where I was like,
1:04:20
I don't want to be that person. So it's like, just don't
1:04:24
be so yeah, I get it. Well, congratulations on Dave Grole being
1:04:29
a part of your life, and congratulations even more so on the re release
1:04:33
U super excited about that. I can't wait to hear more once new music
1:04:38
comes out from that. And yeah, thank you so much for just connecting
1:04:41
and being wanting to be a part of this. It's just super cool.
1:04:44
You know, like I mentioned before, Colin and I grew up in the
1:04:46
you know, new of the CCM world and listen to a lot of that
1:04:49
and to hear your voice, I mean years ago, you know, from
1:04:54
some of your early stuff, to even like some of your stuff in the
1:04:57
kind of like twenty ten's even hearing that. And then now in' like now
1:05:01
knowing like you're we're sort of connected and and we're kind of going through face
1:05:05
stuff in the same way. I'm just like, this is so cool to
1:05:08
connect with people. So thank you so much for sharing more about your story.
1:05:12
Uh, and so so excited about the new music. Thank you,
1:05:15
thank you so much.