Latest / Bards and Barrels / S2 Ep. 6 - Return of the Mailbag

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S2 Ep. 6 - Return of the Mailbag · Bards and Barrels

• 0:02
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome to Bards and Barrels, the podcast for Dungeons and Dragons players, new and old.
• 0:06
  SPEAKER_01: I'm Ross Drews, and I'm joined by my friends and co-hosts Brett Miller and Phil Boone.
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_01: We'll be exploring the world of Dungeons and Dragons in each episode, sharing our experiences, offering tips and advice for those who play and run this classic game.
• 0:18
  SPEAKER_01: So whether you're a new player just starting out or a seasoned veteran looking to get a new perspective on things, Bards and Barrels has something for everyone.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_01: So sit back, grab a drink, and join us as we roll for initiative and embark on an epic adventure.
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_01: There's the opening crack.
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_01: It's time for another episode of Bards and Barrels.
• 0:39
  SPEAKER_01: How are we doing, fellas?
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_01: Hello.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_01: Hey.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_01: It is going to be a great night.
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_01: It is a mailbag night, uh, which I feel like all of our listeners love, right?
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_02: That's one of our favorites, I'm pretty sure.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_01: It is.
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_00: It's always like the most nerve-wracking episodes we do.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_01: I was gonna say, I remember the first one of these we did when Brett, we were like, how's everybody feeling?
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_01: Brett's like, I'm not ready for this.
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_00: I know some of our listeners.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_00: I don't trust them.
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yep.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_01: Well, uh, anyway, uh, let's start off tonight.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_01: Before we hit the mailbag, there's something new that Meta dropped.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, Meta, as in Facebook, dropped this last week, and it's AI Chats.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_01: And one of the things that one of these AI chats is the Dungeon Master.
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_01: And Phil hasn't gotten in and done it, but Brett and I have.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_01: Brett, uh, why don't you share a little bit about this experience?
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, it's interesting.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_00: So you you go to this Facebook page and it's meet the dungeon master, but it's like not uh I don't even know how to say this.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_00: It's not meet, it's M-E-E-T-H-E.
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_00: So it's only it's skipping a T.
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_00: Weird.
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_00: Meet the Dungeon Master with only one T in there.
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_00: Uh but you go to that page and then you click message the page and you can start chatting with this AI, and it walks you through a like kind of campaign.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_00: It's I would say you mentioned this earlier.
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_00: It's kind of like more like a choose your own adventure than a real DD campaign, though.
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, at least my experience has been like it's like it starts you out and it asks you if you want to go on an adventure.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_01: And it's like, okay, what else am I gonna say?
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_01: So you say yes, and it's just like prompts you and it says, what do you do?
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_01: And like keeps asking you, what do you do next?
• 2:17
  SPEAKER_01: What do you do next?
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_01: Never really prompting you to roll anything, but it's still it's still really cool.
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_01: I've I enjoyed it.
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, uh some of the times when I've gotten into like a battle or an encounter or something, it's like you click one choice and then you basically roll through that entire encounter based on that one choice.
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_00: So it's not like extended out, it's boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, you're moving on, right?
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I I have tried this on Chat GPT, um, which I found the experience to be very similar to what Meta has put out there with this AI chat function.
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_01: Um, the difference being I think OpenAI's language that they use that the AI uses is much better than what Meta has.
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_01: So it's it's a lot more eloquent and feels more conversational in a lot of ways.
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_01: So it feels natural when I'm talking to it versus Snoop Dogg in the corner giving me looks, and this happens.
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_01: What do you do next?
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_01: It's like that that just weirded me out a little bit.
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, the best part is Snoop Dogg's just like animating up in the corner of your chat window as he's just like sitting there looking uh like he's had a good night.
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_01: Uh I also thought it was funny because there was a group of us, uh, every everybody, well, most of our listeners know who Matt and Isaac are because we we play our normal DD sessions with him.
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_01: Um they both played.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_01: And I think all of us, Matt, Isaac, Brett, and I were all doing the exact same adventure at the same time.
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_01: So it's like we're like messages like, I got the moonblade, so did I.
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_03: All at the same server.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, right.
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, exactly.
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_01: So anyway, it's probably something worth going and checking out if you just want something a little different from your normal DD session.
• 3:52
  SPEAKER_01: It's cool.
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_01: I wouldn't say don't let it replace normal DD by any means.
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_01: It's not to that point, even close to that point.
• 3:59
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, but if you're looking for something fun to do while you're sitting there on your phone, I would definitely recommend going and giving it a look, wouldn't you, Brett?
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah.
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_00: It's like if you ever liked reading the choose your own adventure books, this is pretty cool.
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_01: Totally.
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_01: Uh okay, let's jump into mailbag.
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_01: Uh first question this week uh comes from uh one of our biggest fans, actually.
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_01: And so here's here's what Clint writes in to us.
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_01: He says, I'm looking to create a new character which won't use a weapon.
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_01: I want this character to be something like a WWE wrestler mixed with a brawler, similar to uh Zangeef.
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't play Street Fighter, is that right?
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_01: Anybody know?
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_01: Sure.
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_01: Oh god, Clint, please don't hate me for that.
• 4:39
  SPEAKER_01: Uh I'd like this character to have an over-the-top personality like Rick Flair or possibly Grog from Vox Machina.
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, I have a few weird friends who think they know everything about DD and they're telling me to use multi-classing, but what would you recommend?
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_01: The monk class sounds good for hand-to-hand combat, but is it okay to use a class that works for combat but wouldn't work from a personality perspective?
• 5:01
  SPEAKER_01: A monk is supposed to be quiet instead of loud and brash character like I'd like this to be.
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_01: What is your opinion on using a character in a class in which it's not traditionally used?
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_01: And what classes would you use in this case?
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_01: That is a loaded email with lots of questions.
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you, Clint, for sending that in.
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, uh, so I think, man, yeah, there are a lot of pieces to that question.
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, first and foremost, if you want to just be a monk and not play by standard monk rules, just check with whoever's running your game.
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_02: Because I mean, I feel like as I'm not always our DM, but I have done it a lot.
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_02: But that's something that I would allow for sure.
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_02: But if you're sitting at a table where, you know, they're a little more traditional in what the character archetypes are.
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_02: I if I was leaning into multi-classing, would maybe think a monk bard kind of a play um that introduces a little bit of magic potentially to more magic, different types at that point.
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_02: But I don't know.
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_02: What do you think, Brah?
• 6:03
  SPEAKER_00: Uh Clint has caught me about this one and has asked in person on this one.
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_00: So uh he already knows a little bit of my answer, but I I was pushing him to the monk and the barbarian as a combo, and like pick up just enough of the barbarian to be able to get rage, uh, so that you get some of those extra rage benefits, but then have all the monk uh fisticuffs.
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_02: I still feel like you could bring the personality out that way too.
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, definitely, for sure.
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_01: I I think that's the interesting thing.
• 6:37
  SPEAKER_01: So we probably should talk a little bit about multi-classing, but well, since we're we're in this ballpark here.
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_01: And it's not like you can like straight up go in, like you have to build a character, and then once you get to a certain point, you can multi-class.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_01: It's not like you can do this right off the bat anyway.
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_01: So you're gonna have to choose something that you're gonna play with to start, and then once your your um your scores and the and the the player's handbook actually lists out like what specific score you need to be able to multi-class in a in another class.
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so you do have to work at it a little bit.
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_01: So it's like, what do you want?
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_01: What's the main thing you want to be?
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_02: If you rolled really well, uh if you YOLO'd or whatever, you put your two scores kind of in the areas you wanted to be, you could get there more quickly.
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_02: It's still gonna take you at least two levels because when you take a level, you take one level in a class.
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_02: So once you decide to multi-class, let's say that you start out as a monk and you're gonna go barb.
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_02: You start out as a level one monk.
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_02: Once you get enough XP or you hit that milestone and you're getting ready to level up to level two, that's when you have to make the decision of okay, am I gonna take level two in monk?
• 7:44
  SPEAKER_02: Or am I now gonna take level one in barbarian?
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_02: You're still a level two character because the two add up to what your total level is, but you don't receive any of the features of the monk second level.
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_02: At that point you would get what's what you would oh my gosh.
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_02: At that point you would get what the barbarian has at that level.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_01: And so at that point, just realize if you are going to multi-class a character, you're never gonna hit level 20 if you're multiclassing a character.
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_01: Because you have to take, you're gonna at least take one level in something.
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_01: So the highest you can ever get is level 19 in one of in your main in that class class, yeah.
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_01: Your character can get to the top.
• 8:21
  SPEAKER_00: Your character can get to 1120.
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 8:23
  SPEAKER_00: And most of the times, anytime I've ever seen somebody do multi-classing, you only pick up maybe three levels in your secondary class.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_00: Like you're not going one for one right all the way up.
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_00: Totally.
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_02: I would say three max, probably five.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_02: Like you've hit most of your major things by that point, yeah, right.
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you're multi-classing because you want probably one of the early features, like barbarian, you want that rage, which is gonna come fairly quickly in barbarian levels.
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_01: Um, okay, so back to Clint's question then.
• 8:52
  SPEAKER_01: What do we think?
• 8:53
  SPEAKER_01: We can just go around the table too.
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_01: What would what do we think is like the most optimal two classes for him to take?
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_01: I would agree with you, Brett, that I would I would do barbarian, and if he wants monk features in there to do monk.
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_01: That's gonna come down to what he wants over the top personality.
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_01: I do agree with him that if if you're if you're sticking to your guns here, a monk probably isn't the main.
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_01: If you main with a barbarian and then add monk to it, I think that would fit the bill.
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_01: That's fine.
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_00: Could you do something like a paladin?
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_00: Because you could get all of your strength features.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, you're wasting most of your ability to use weapons, even though you could as a paladin, but you also get the high charisma as key features in a paladin as well, and that could lean into your social, like being an over the top social creature as well.
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_01: That's a good point.
• 9:49
  SPEAKER_01: I I think I think to what he wants to do, I don't know if Paladin works because he wants he doesn't want to use weapons at all.
• 9:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_01: So Barbarian is still probably better with the because he'd be proficient with his hands, right?
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_01: So it's like right off the anything he picks up, he's gonna be proficient with, which helps right off the bat.
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, well, and I I also think so.
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_02: Paladin is bound to an oath of some sort too, and I'm not necessarily sure that would fit the personality of the type of character he's creating.
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_00: Probably not.
• 10:15
  SPEAKER_01: Spoiler alert for a question later tonight that we'll kind of get into that with, by the way.
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_01: Oh no.
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_01: Now I'm nervous.
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_00: But I don't I don't think you have to be a like a boring monk or a boring barbarian.
• 10:31
  SPEAKER_00: Like you can be a WHWE fighter.
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_00: Like they've got lots of charisma, and just instead of using charisma as your dump stat, you could use it as a as a feature to lean into.
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, he even uses grog as an example.
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not sure I I guess I don't know if Gro Grog is high on charisma.
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_01: He's definitely not high on intelligence.
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_01: But no, you're still probably gonna be dumping intelligence and wisdom.
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_01: Oh yeah.
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_01: Especially if you're maining barbarian.
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_01: Oh yeah, for sure.
• 11:01
  SPEAKER_02: I think you could get away with just a straight barbarian, truthfully, unless you're picking up monk for the hand-to-hand combat part of it.
• 11:08
  SPEAKER_02: Other than that, I don't necessarily see the need.
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_00: No, I you could go either way as your main easily.
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_00: Or just straight on either one.
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_01: And so maybe we've hit this already.
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_01: So what what do we think about his last question where he's talking about uh your opinion on using a character in a class which is not traditionally used in to me, he's talking about like that overbearing monk now.
• 11:37
  SPEAKER_01: I and I think we I think Phil, you mentioned it is like you'd be okay with that at your table.
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_01: I think I would be okay.
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_01: I it to me, it's like if you if that's what you want to build, you're just trying to get the characteristics of another class, go for it.
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_01: I I'm completely okay with that.
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I I definitely would be.
• 11:53
  SPEAKER_02: The way I that part kind of sounds to me is so in one of the other campaigns that we're playing in right now, um, one of Ross's characters is a rogue, but most of the time you wouldn't know that.
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that's just who you are as a player, but you don't lean into those features heavily, but they're there when you need them, and it's a big part of your backstory.
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_02: Like it it totally makes sense.
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but same thing, like I think that's you're not the stereotypical rogue, and I think that it plays really well still.
• 12:24
  SPEAKER_00: And it keeps keeps your character fresh, too.
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_00: It's not the same rogue, same barbarian that every it's not the dumb barbarian that run up and smash, right?
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it'd be fun to play a super charismatic barbarian.
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_02: That would be super refreshing at a table.
• 12:39
  SPEAKER_02: That'd be very interesting.
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, any last thoughts uh for Clint before we move on?
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_01: No?
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, well, Clint, I hope this was sat a satisfying answer.
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_01: If it's not, I'm sure you will let us know.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_01: So, but thank you for sending that in.
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_00: How about you just be a druid that wild shapes into a gorilla?
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, that I guess, yeah.
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_01: Sure, why not?
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, uh, next question.
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I'm about to run the Dragon of Ice Spire Peak and feel my party's races and classes they have chosen would be too overpowered for the story.
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_01: Do I make the campaign harder or do I run it as is?
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_01: Make it harder.
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think we ran into this just the other night.
• 13:29
  SPEAKER_00: So we are currently running uh the light of Xeraxes.
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_01: Yep.
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_00: And we're talking about this because there is a I'm not gonna spoil the the session, the campaign, uh, but there's a class that is heavily featured in the storyline.
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_00: Thankfully, none of us picked that class to be for one of our characters, but it would have drastically changed the storyline and the features and what you could do just by having picked that class for this campaign.
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_02: I yeah, so uh to Brett's point, I do think that there are some like hard lines, right?
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_02: If one of their choices is totally gonna upset the campaign's storyline or something like that, then I think maybe you're gonna have to intercede somehow, like either change part of the story or like in this case, maybe they change the race or something like that of you know this other group.
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_02: Um but if if it's really you're just kind of worried that they're overpowered, I would probably just try to make your combat challenges more difficult, make the DCs higher on your social interactions, possibly.
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_01: I I I also wonder a little bit with this is like, did you have a session zero?
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_01: Did you talk through this?
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_01: Like, did you all get together and make your characters?
• 14:43
  SPEAKER_01: Because like this, these are these are also issues that you can take care of early.
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_01: So it's like if you feel something's off or like a race, like tell them in session zero, don't get into the story and then go, Oh, you shouldn't do that.
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, this is a group storytelling campaign.
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_00: Like you are all in this together.
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_00: So if you are a little transparent with your party and say, Hey, I like what you guys are doing, but I think we're gonna have some problems here.
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe somebody in that party is willing to change it up or tweak their character slightly so it's not quite as overpowered.
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I agree with that 100%.
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_01: Um, next question.
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, does it break the mechanics if I let my party roll HP with advantage?
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_01: Their concern is not getting enough back on short rests.
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_01: What are your thoughts on this?
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_00: Interesting.
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_02: Rest.
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_02: Getting HP back to rest is just challenging, kind of in its own.
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_02: Um because there's so many different ways that people fall on that.
• 15:45
  SPEAKER_02: Like I like to have a lot of HP.
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm a frequent rester, or I like to take rest because I like to be at full health.
• 15:53
  SPEAKER_02: But that's not really how the game was designed.
• 15:55
  SPEAKER_02: Correct.
• 15:55
  SPEAKER_02: And I think we've hit on this before, but that's not how the game was made.
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_02: It's supposed to be challenging.
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_00: I think by giving them advantage, you're diluting the benefit of certain classes, the healing classes, and potions.
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_00: Or any any of the other ways to get health back.
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_00: Like you can get health other than a short rest.
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_00: And by leaning too much into giving them health that way, you're kind of pigeonholing how they're gonna play it.
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I I don't I don't mind the rolling the HP with advantage doesn't bother me as much as uh you're diluting the rest of that.
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_01: I agree with that 100% because it's like if this is going on, I would say make sure you're utilizing your healers and equipment in your inventory first.
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_01: And then if that's not doing the trick, then we can talk about other ways to get you more health points.
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_01: If it's like if people are going down a lot or something, it or healers just aren't able to do what they need to do, then we can talk about that.
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_01: But I think I think you're absolutely right.
• 17:03
  SPEAKER_01: Up front, probably not something you want to do.
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, hell add a health shop along the side of the road if you really need to.
• 17:13
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 17:13
  SPEAKER_00: Like if they are desperate to get some other options to get healing because they're only relying on their short rest, find a different solution so that they can heal up.
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_02: Well, yeah, like uh in the descent campaign, uh Ross's character carried around an amulet that characters could look at and restore some HP.
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_02: So completely outside of resting, completely outside of healing potions.
• 17:35
  SPEAKER_02: It was once.
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_02: I can only use it once, I think, per long rest?
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_02: Short rest.
• 17:39
  SPEAKER_02: Short rest.
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_02: All right, that was generous of me, but uh thank you.
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_02: But things like that can interject a little bit of healing without needing to give away something extra, and it's still limited use, right?
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_02: So you're not always running up against, oh well, you know, I'm rolling eights every time I you know re-roll my HP.
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_01: So I so I think the common consensus then among us is get creative first, yeah, make sure you're utilizing everything that you can, and then go to house rules.
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_00: If somebody's not falling down to death saves occasionally, you're kind of limiting the the stress factor of combat.
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_00: Like you want a little bit of uh put them on the edge of the sea.
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_00: Are they gonna make it out of this?
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_02: Or is the stomach ass and gonna eat them?
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I mean, it's not a good story unless there's some drama occasionally, right?
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_01: So it's like you need you need something in there, or you occasionally kill a character.
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, sure, why not?
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_01: It happens.
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_01: Lots of parties have that problem.
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_01: We haven't yet, thankfully.
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_01: Uh okay, next question.
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, how do you deal with players that go all out in every fight?
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_01: They use all of their abilities, their spills, everything, and then they want a rest to refresh.
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_01: How timely is this?
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_01: Ross.
• 18:55
  SPEAKER_01: No, stop.
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_01: That is not me.
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_01: No, this was me last time.
• 18:59
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah.
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_01: You were saying I do this, I do not do this.
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, they have no concept of rationing abilities holding back.
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, and when I say that sleeping isn't an option, they wait around till they can, slowing the game down and making immersion really hard.
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_01: I see where you're going with that now.
• 19:17
  SPEAKER_00: So uh I hear you.
• 19:20
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's just a different style of play.
• 19:23
  SPEAKER_00: Like I've talked to a friend of mine who in video games never uses any of the consumable items because he might need them someday.
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_00: And he gets to like the end of the video game and has all this stuff, and it's completely worthless because he's so overpowered at that point.
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_03: That's me.
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_03: That is so me.
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_00: I wasn't referring to you.
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_00: I know you weren't.
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_03: That's me.
• 19:45
  SPEAKER_03: Playing Tears of the Kingdom.
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_03: I'm like afraid to use a weapon because it might break.
• 19:50
  SPEAKER_03: That's me.
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_01: Wow, living in fear, man.
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_01: Jeez a little.
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_03: Never know when you're gonna need it.
• 19:56
  SPEAKER_03: Hold on to it.
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_01: Uh I I I think when it comes to this, uh also if it's a new party, their instinct is going to be use everything I have in a fight.
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_01: Because that's just how they they don't know any different yet.
• 20:11
  SPEAKER_01: I think older party if we were to sit down with a new party and an old an an older party that's been playing for 10 years, I think you would find two very different styles.
• 20:20
  SPEAKER_01: I think I think the new party would do exactly this.
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_01: They would use everything and then want to rest, whereas the older party, because they know the game better, is probably gonna sit there and conserve.
• 20:29
  SPEAKER_00: And there there's still things you can do.
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, any magic class is gonna have some cantrips that they probably could do something with or or heal or you know, shoot a shoot a crossbow.
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_00: Like that's why you have all those simple weapons and you kind of keep a hold of those.
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_00: You don't not everything is just consumable or burnable.
• 20:51
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you're not you're not gonna be hitting for huge damage, but you can still take a shot.
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, totally.
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_02: You can do something.
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, right.
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, next question.
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_01: This one, this one's a little bit more fun, I promise.
• 21:03
  SPEAKER_01: Uh let's say a hag polymorphs an elf druid who is wild-shaped as a bear.
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_00: Holy cow.
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_01: She turns the druid into a sheep, and once the sheep drops to zero HP, do they revert back to the elf or do they revert back to the bear?
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_00: What came first?
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_00: The chicken or the egg?
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_00: I got it start over.
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_00: What?
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so I'll I'll simplify this a little bit.
• 21:25
  SPEAKER_01: So you have a druid who is wild-shaped as a bear.
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_01: The hag polymorphs the druid who is a bear right now, into a sheep.
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_01: The sheep drops to zero hit points.
• 21:36
  SPEAKER_01: What does it turn back into?
• 21:38
  SPEAKER_01: Does it go back to bear or does it go back to elf?
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, my gut wants to say bear, but I feel like I should review the polymorph spell and see what the wording is.
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_01: I think you are a hundred percent correct because I think what the polymorph spell does is it reverts back to the form it was in when the spell took effect.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: So it's like if you were a bear, once you hit zero, you go back to being a bear.
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_02: I just started reading it, and in the first paragraph it says the spell has no effect on a shape changer.
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, well, that's an interesting for this question.
• 22:15
  SPEAKER_03: So then I got a little stuck.
• 22:17
  SPEAKER_03: But like uh that hag cheated, though.
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_03: She broke the rules.
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_01: Shit.
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_01: My my gut reaction was if it polymorphs you and you're already changed, you just go back to where you were.
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_01: Like you you if you had lost hit points, you go, you just revert back to that moment.
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_01: Where you were.
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that moment in time.
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_01: I that's that sounds fair to me.
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_00: But if the police spell doesn't work on a shape changer, I think it's that is the biggest point here, and it's true.
• 22:47
  SPEAKER_00: It's kind of like you can't put a bag of holding in a bag of holding.
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_00: Correct.
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I I think you're right.
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_00: Like they've got to have some limitations there, and that because you could you could have a second hag come in and change them again, and then it's like how many layers down inception level.
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, though.
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_01: Would you be able to layer the polymorph spells though?
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_01: Because if you're not a shape changer, but I changed you, you're still not a shape changer.
• 23:17
  SPEAKER_01: So can you be polymorphed into multiple things?
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_01: Can a polymorph be put on a polymorph?
• 23:23
  SPEAKER_00: From a different person?
• 23:24
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 23:25
  SPEAKER_01: I'm using your example, like two hags.
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_01: So if two of uh two I change Phil into a sheep, then you change Phil into a rat.
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_01: Is he a rat, then goes back to a sheep?
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 23:35
  SPEAKER_02: Because now I'm just picturing two hags like having a piss in contest and like, no, it's a bird.
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_01: No, it's a toad, it's the sword and the stone, except instead of changing them into themselves.
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_01: They're like just sitting there casting it on one person.
• 23:47
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 23:48
  SPEAKER_00: I have an idea.
• 23:51
  SPEAKER_00: Let us know in the comments what you think.
• 23:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, because we don't know.
• 23:57
  SPEAKER_00: You let us know.
• 23:58
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 23:59
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, technical question.
• 24:01
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, is one round of combat six seconds?
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_01: In my last session, the cleric casted spiritual weapon, and its duration is one minute.
• 24:09
  SPEAKER_01: We had seven participants in combat.
• 24:11
  SPEAKER_01: So if each person is six seconds, wouldn't it only be good for one attack?
• 24:16
  SPEAKER_02: No, one round of combat is six seconds.
• 24:19
  SPEAKER_02: So that would be ten rounds.
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_02: One minute would be ten rounds of combat.
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_02: Everyone gets a turn in a round.
• 24:25
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 24:26
  SPEAKER_01: I can see where that's confusing though.
• 24:27
  SPEAKER_02: It is.
• 24:28
  SPEAKER_01: Because if you've never if you've never done that before, it's like, is it that person's round or is it the round as a whole?
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_00: Or I think a good way to understand this is to watch Fox Machina on Amazon Prime and see how fast the combat goes that they actually go through, and think, okay, that fight that just took probably took 15 rounds of a battle.
• 24:51
  SPEAKER_00: And but it's like boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom.
• 24:54
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 24:54
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 24:55
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 24:55
  SPEAKER_01: I honestly the best the best way to like just understand it in general is that each round is instantanely instantaneously happening for everybody at the same time.
• 25:05
  SPEAKER_01: You just don't play it that way.
• 25:06
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_02: It doesn't necessarily happen in turn order like you're used to, right?
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_02: A lot of these things are happening at the same time.
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_02: That's a good question, though.
• 25:15
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, fellas.
• 25:16
  SPEAKER_01: Next question.
• 25:17
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, one of my players mentioned he was thinking about dipping his paladin into some hexblade warlock levels.
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_01: I told him that was fine as long as he was okay with Lithander disowning him and losing his class benefits as a as a paladin.
• 25:31
  SPEAKER_01: This dissuaded him from doing this, but now I wonder if I should have just let him do it.
• 25:35
  SPEAKER_01: I'm okay with multi-classing if it makes sense.
• 25:38
  SPEAKER_01: What are your thoughts?
• 25:40
  SPEAKER_00: I'd say your take was pretty hardcore.
• 25:43
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, but I but I see it because you technically you're entering like a pact with some other being when you become a warlock.
• 25:54
  SPEAKER_01: I would add to this by saying they've already solved this problem because this is probably where an oathbreaker paladin fits in.
• 26:02
  SPEAKER_01: Because in order to do this, you took a pact with something, you broke the oath that you were in, and now you're an oathbreaker paladin with warlock levels.
• 26:12
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's actually probably the route they would want you to take.
• 26:17
  SPEAKER_02: That makes sense.
• 26:18
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 26:19
  SPEAKER_01: I mean that's and would be really freaking cool, to be honest with you.
• 26:23
  SPEAKER_00: Uh the storylines you have potentially curated here are like But I I could see you I could see going the other way and keeping both.
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_00: I would say it's messy at that point, and maybe they have internal struggles, or like maybe even sometimes one of the gods doesn't answer their call because of that.
• 26:48
  SPEAKER_02: Sure.
• 26:48
  SPEAKER_02: I would be interested to to know like specifically what the character maybe wanted from that hexblade warlock.
• 26:54
  SPEAKER_02: Like that seems specific.
• 26:55
  SPEAKER_02: Is there a way to maybe get them what they wanted without having to go multi-classing?
• 27:00
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 27:00
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's where I don't I don't know if there's any feats that allow you to take warlock levels necessarily.
• 27:05
  SPEAKER_01: I think there are.
• 27:06
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but some of them do allow you to take spells from other classes without actually having to multi-class in that, which would allow you a way to weasel around that a little bit in some ways.
• 27:18
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, last question for the night.
• 27:21
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, we had a warlock cast burning hands during their turn.
• 27:25
  SPEAKER_01: Then he was attacked and used hellish rebuke as a reaction during the same round.
• 27:29
  SPEAKER_01: I had a few players at the table comment that he couldn't do that because he had already cast a spell.
• 27:34
  SPEAKER_01: Help, how do I handle this?
• 27:37
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, hold on.
• 27:38
  SPEAKER_02: Explain that one one more time to me.
• 27:40
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so Warlock cast burning hands on their turn.
• 27:43
  SPEAKER_01: On their turn.
• 27:44
  SPEAKER_01: And then they were attacked, used their reaction to cast Hellish Rebuke, and then had the he had some reaction from some players saying he couldn't cast two spells in a round.
• 27:55
  SPEAKER_02: But I believe that Hellish Rebuke specifically is a reaction is his type.
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_02: Yep.
• 28:01
  SPEAKER_02: So that would have been acceptable according to like hard rules, right?
• 28:05
  SPEAKER_02: So on his turn, he took an action to cast a spell.
• 28:08
  SPEAKER_02: You cannot cast two like actions on your turn, but you can use a reaction.
• 28:13
  SPEAKER_02: So as long as he didn't already use his reaction for an opportunity attack or something like that, yes, he's well within his rights.
• 28:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yep, you get one reaction per turn, per round, excuse me.
• 28:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 28:24
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, just kidding, we're gonna do one more question.
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_01: How much time should it take for a character to go from level four to level 17?
• 28:32
  SPEAKER_01: Long story, but here's the short version.
• 28:35
  SPEAKER_01: Two players got cursed, and the only way to fix them is the wish spell.
• 28:40
  SPEAKER_01: They have a year to lift the curse before they turn into dragons.
• 28:42
  SPEAKER_01: Is it feasible for my level four wizard to get to level 17 during that time frame?
• 28:50
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, that's a loaded question.
• 28:53
  SPEAKER_00: There are a lot of layers to this one.
• 28:55
  SPEAKER_00: Oh we're gonna need another episode for this question.
• 28:59
  SPEAKER_00: Uh time in DD, first of all, does not necessarily equate to we're real world time.
• 29:09
  SPEAKER_00: So you could you could have three years of sessions and have it fit in one year of playtime.
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_01: That's true.
• 29:22
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, I should clarify.
• 29:23
  SPEAKER_01: I'm pretty sure he's talking in game time.
• 29:26
  SPEAKER_01: Can you go from levels four to seventeen in a year?
• 29:29
  SPEAKER_01: Not not in like you playing actual game time.
• 29:34
  SPEAKER_00: Sure.
• 29:35
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, there is no rule on when you have to level up.
• 29:40
  SPEAKER_00: And maybe if you're doing XP based, you need to not sit on your butt every day.
• 29:46
  SPEAKER_00: You need to get out there and kill some stuff to get some XP, but there's a way to do it.
• 29:51
  SPEAKER_01: From what I've seen in forums and things, the gen uh among older DD players, it's like every eight to ten sessions you level up.
• 30:01
  SPEAKER_01: Is what I've seen seems to be the common thing.
• 30:05
  SPEAKER_01: So if you're doing XP base, the book lays out when you when you get to those levels.
• 30:09
  SPEAKER_01: So like if you're doing homebrew, you get this much XP, you're gonna advance to this level.
• 30:13
  SPEAKER_01: If you're doing it through a published campaign, it specifically tells you when.
• 30:17
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's probably the hardest path to take for this because it's gonna tell you specifically when you level up.
• 30:22
  SPEAKER_01: If you're playing a campaign that only gets you to level 15, well, that's a problem.
• 30:27
  SPEAKER_01: Uh so XP is an option, and then if you're going by the rule of thumb that people are using, if it's every eight to ten sessions, I don't know if you can depend on how often you're playing, maybe.
• 30:39
  SPEAKER_00: I you know, another thing I've seen done is uh you level up your party based on how many what level they're at on average, and then that many sessions until they get to the next level.
• 30:52
  SPEAKER_00: So if you're level three, you play three sessions at level three, and then you go to level four.
• 30:57
  SPEAKER_00: Four sessions at level four and level five.
• 30:59
  SPEAKER_01: So the higher level you get, you're gonna slow down though.
• 31:01
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 31:03
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 31:03
  SPEAKER_00: But by doing that, you also kind of are obvious to your party if they're paying attention on when they're gonna level up.
• 31:10
  SPEAKER_00: So maybe fudge that here or there.
• 31:12
  SPEAKER_02: What a what level do you guys remember what level you ended up at where we're with descent right now?
• 31:18
  SPEAKER_02: I think it is 13.
• 31:20
  SPEAKER_02: I was thinking it was 13.
• 31:22
  SPEAKER_02: So our descent into Vernus characters ended up at level 13.
• 31:26
  SPEAKER_02: And thinking back to that campaign, I don't remember if the book said anything, but I would say that that whole encounter well, not encounter, whole campaign, took place within the matter of three months, maybe honestly.
• 31:43
  SPEAKER_02: And you went from I I mean, I don't know, you've gained at least ten levels probably while you were in a purse, I would think.
• 31:52
  SPEAKER_02: Or close to.
• 31:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I mean, you can also send people to other planes that have time that work differently too, I'm not sure.
• 32:00
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 32:00
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 32:01
  SPEAKER_01: So I I think we're missing a very easy answer here.
• 32:05
  SPEAKER_01: You're the DM.
• 32:06
  SPEAKER_01: Set it up however you want to set it up.
• 32:08
  SPEAKER_01: If it makes sense in your story, do it.
• 32:10
  SPEAKER_01: I I think I think technically it's possible.
• 32:14
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely, if you have a way to make it happen in your story, just make it happen.
• 32:18
  SPEAKER_00: And I mean, you don't necessarily have to hold that one thing to get to level 17.
• 32:26
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe they have to do this elaborate quest that takes them quote unquote six months of game time to earn the favor of a god who grants them a one-time use wish scroll spell scroll.
• 32:40
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 32:40
  SPEAKER_00: That's what I was thinking too.
• 32:41
  SPEAKER_01: You can just get creative and do things too.
• 32:43
  SPEAKER_01: I think I think there's plenty of options for them.
• 32:46
  SPEAKER_01: All right, that's gonna do it for this episode of Bards and Barrels.
• 32:50
  SPEAKER_01: You can listen to past episodes of the show anywhere a podcast can be found.
• 32:53
  SPEAKER_01: Want to stay in the loop and not miss the latest from us?
• 32:55
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• 33:00
  SPEAKER_01: We'll see you soon, folks.