Latest / Halo Territory: A Los Angeles Angels Podcast / TECH SUPPORT: Renewed commitment to analytics fuels pitching improvements

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TECH SUPPORT: Renewed commitment to analytics fuels pitching improvements · Halo Territory: A Los Angeles Angels Podcast

0:08
Speaker 1: Angel fans, and welcome back to Halo Territoria Mike D. Giovanna,
0:12
Speaker 1: former Ela Times baseball writer and host of the show,
0:16
Speaker 1: and back with us today is my regular co host
0:18
Speaker 1: Mark Trumbo, the former Angels slugger. Mark, Welcome back from vacation. Boy.
0:23
Speaker 1: If you look at the comments on ht YouTube page,
0:28
Speaker 1: you were dearly missed out there, my friend? What's up
0:30
Speaker 1: with that?
0:32
Speaker 2: Well? For the three or four that we're wondering, yes,
0:37
Speaker 2: we took a trip for my daughter's school. Started in
0:41
Speaker 2: this day and age. Unfortunately, publicizing such things on the
0:46
Speaker 2: internet social media is well advised. So I have not
0:50
Speaker 2: said that was just the explanation and I'm back and
0:55
Speaker 2: ready to cover. Well, we got a lot to discuss today. Yeah,
0:59
Speaker 2: an interesting things I feel like. And the shows that
1:03
Speaker 2: while I was gone some very interesting content too, a
1:05
Speaker 2: little different, but learned a lot, especially in the shake
1:09
Speaker 2: one about the ballpark and one question is where is
1:13
Speaker 2: all that room for the youth sports park? That I
1:17
Speaker 2: meant to ask.
1:17
Speaker 1: You, but yeah, I mean you do. You would do
1:20
Speaker 1: a project like that in phases. Obviously you would first start,
1:24
Speaker 1: I'm assuming building the new stadium, then you're tearing down
1:27
Speaker 1: the old stadium. So you have all, you know, the
1:30
Speaker 1: footprint where the old stadium was, and then you figure out,
1:33
Speaker 1: you know, you could probably fit out okay, yeah, into
1:36
Speaker 1: the footprint. Yeah, it's I'm sure there's all sorts of
1:39
Speaker 1: advanced planning and and things and concepts that have gone
1:42
Speaker 1: into it. But there's a lot of room there. There's
1:44
Speaker 1: probably more room than you think. And if you eliminate
1:47
Speaker 1: some of the parking spaces and build a garage like
1:49
Speaker 1: they did across the street at the Hana Center, you'd
1:52
Speaker 1: have even more available square footage. So yeah, some interesting
1:56
Speaker 1: stuff going on there. We'll see what happens with all
1:59
Speaker 1: of that. Well, also some interesting Angels storylines. One of
2:03
Speaker 1: the big ones these past two weeks has been Angels
2:06
Speaker 1: pitching in the wake of the August eleventh firing of
2:10
Speaker 1: veteran pitching coach Mike Maddocks, bullpen coach Dom Cheety, and
2:14
Speaker 1: assistant pitching coach Darryl Scott. So the Angels had a
2:17
Speaker 1: four point five to one team er that day and
2:22
Speaker 1: since then, and we're gonna use these stats going in
2:24
Speaker 1: a Sunday's game. You say, Kakuchi came back first game
2:28
Speaker 1: in four months, kind of a bit of an outlier,
2:30
Speaker 1: didn't pitch great, didn't pitch all that poorly, but going
2:33
Speaker 1: into Sunday's game. Since August eleventh, and the Angels named
2:37
Speaker 1: Tim Levick interim pitching coach and Michael Wurtz interim bullpen coach,
2:42
Speaker 1: the Angels pitching staff leads the major leagues with a
2:45
Speaker 1: one point six to four ERA and a zero point
2:49
Speaker 1: nine to two WHIP and a three point nine to
2:52
Speaker 1: six strikeout to walk ratio. Angels pitching had also allowed
2:58
Speaker 1: two or fewer earned runs in nine of eleven games
3:03
Speaker 1: in that span. Mark, what does impress you the most
3:08
Speaker 1: about Angels pitching these last two weeks and how do
3:11
Speaker 1: you think they've improved?
3:13
Speaker 2: I think the amount of coverage on the broadcast has
3:16
Speaker 2: been well, it's extensive, and I think when Johnson start
3:23
Speaker 2: the other night, within before two innings was up, we'd
3:26
Speaker 2: heard at least three references to the pitching improvements. So
3:30
Speaker 2: they are a big deal, and they're a big deal
3:32
Speaker 2: to the club, and it makes you wonder what this
3:36
Speaker 2: team might have looked like had someone else been directing
3:39
Speaker 2: the pitching for the majority of the season. It sounds
3:43
Speaker 2: like and we may have been early to kind of
3:46
Speaker 2: speculate that Maddox was making the bullpen maneuvers and deciding
3:51
Speaker 2: at least who was available, if not who was coming
3:53
Speaker 2: into the game. But what it looks like and if
3:57
Speaker 2: anybody watches, I know if people are watching those games.
4:00
Speaker 2: But this is repetitive for what they were saying. But
4:02
Speaker 2: the Angels pitchers, especially the starting pitchers, have streamlined their repertoires.
4:07
Speaker 2: They have eliminated their pitches that grayed out poorly, and
4:12
Speaker 2: they are stepping on the usage of their better pitches.
4:17
Speaker 2: Sometimes it turns into more of a two pitch mix,
4:19
Speaker 2: maybe sprinkle in a third. It seemed like under Maddox
4:22
Speaker 2: he really wanted them to throw about an equal usage
4:28
Speaker 2: for most of the guys of four pitches. For example,
4:32
Speaker 2: Walbert doesn't have four, but he was starting to trend
4:35
Speaker 2: more towards and he does have a very nice slider,
4:37
Speaker 2: so's that's not really the example. Let's say Debt Meer's
4:40
Speaker 2: more trying to use an equal usage of those four
4:44
Speaker 2: pitches that he has. Where a couple of them or
4:46
Speaker 2: at least one of them has changed up is never
4:49
Speaker 2: rated very well. Grayson Rodriguez after kind of a clunky
4:54
Speaker 2: first game and not his fault, totally poor defense by
4:58
Speaker 2: Algrisso made an air, so it's no it was an error,
5:02
Speaker 2: but he made the rest of it. I mean, I
5:05
Speaker 2: thought that could get away from him. He went seven innings,
5:07
Speaker 2: ninety nine pitches and sixty four percent foreseeing fastball twenty
5:11
Speaker 2: four percent change up. So that was you know, essentially
5:14
Speaker 2: that's covering almost the entirety of his repertoire. And that
5:19
Speaker 2: was the guy that I think we've been waiting to see.
5:21
Speaker 2: I guess one question for you, Uh, is this more
5:25
Speaker 2: a byproduct of, you know, some massive improvements in short
5:30
Speaker 2: order or are they playing some lousy competition.
5:33
Speaker 1: Yeah, certainly there's elements to both. I don't know if
5:36
Speaker 1: massive improvement is the right word, but certainly you play
5:39
Speaker 1: in the Royals, the Astros, the Rangers. That's some really
5:43
Speaker 1: teams that have really been scuffled offensively of late. There's
5:47
Speaker 1: just been a couple of really nice turns to the rotation.
5:49
Speaker 1: I mean, Urania has been really good all year. Dettmars
5:52
Speaker 1: has been spectacular since early early to mid July. And
5:57
Speaker 1: I think you're seeing you know, young George class in
5:59
Speaker 1: this step then and pitch really well. We saw Ryan
6:03
Speaker 1: Johnson take a no hitter into the sixth inning. God,
6:06
Speaker 1: it doesn't seem like that long ago we were talking
6:08
Speaker 1: about this guy belongs in the bullpen. We might have
6:10
Speaker 1: to reassess that one.
6:14
Speaker 2: I'd like to see a bit more, if I'm being honest,
6:16
Speaker 2: and a bit more against good competition, because this Rangers
6:21
Speaker 2: team is going nowhere fast. They don't have it. I
6:26
Speaker 2: guess booied heavily by their starting pitching at times, but
6:30
Speaker 2: I didn't see much in terms of you know, the
6:32
Speaker 2: defense wasn't above average to me, and they tried to
6:36
Speaker 2: let him. You know, the angel sneaked back in this
6:39
Speaker 2: game today and darn near did. Credit to the Angels
6:43
Speaker 2: too for battling until the end. But so Johnson, for example,
6:48
Speaker 2: just to get it out of the way. He's fifty
6:50
Speaker 2: percent cutter, twenty six percent sweeper, but his velocity has
6:53
Speaker 2: ticked up. We've talked about where's the velocity, and he
6:56
Speaker 2: was up to ninety four point three For those that
7:00
Speaker 2: love statistics.
7:02
Speaker 1: And also, I don't think you can underestimate the impact
7:07
Speaker 1: some of the relievers have had. You know, that era
7:11
Speaker 1: was for a total pitching staff. As good as the
7:13
Speaker 1: rotation has been, it wasn't just for the rotation. Ben
7:16
Speaker 1: Joyce has come back and been pretty darn dominant. Six
7:19
Speaker 1: and two thirds inning pitch in seven games, zero earned runs,
7:23
Speaker 1: nine strikeouts and two walks. And Ryan Watson man talk
7:28
Speaker 1: about coming out of nowhere. He's thrown five and a
7:32
Speaker 1: third in six games, zero earn runs, eight strikeouts, one
7:36
Speaker 1: walk and what was it, Oh, the first game of
7:42
Speaker 1: the road trip in Houston. Nobody knows at the time
7:45
Speaker 1: that Sam and the Terror is hurt, and up comes
7:48
Speaker 1: your Novarez representing the tie and run. I think it's
7:51
Speaker 1: three to one, and out trots the right hand of
7:53
Speaker 1: Ryan Watson out of the bullpen and he strikes out.
7:57
Speaker 1: Alvarez gets esak paratus with a I a left field
8:01
Speaker 1: to preserve a three to one win. And this guy's
8:04
Speaker 1: been pretty darn good. Uh, so you know, it's been
8:08
Speaker 1: sort of an across the board effort. What's been your
8:11
Speaker 1: impression of Ben Joyce so far? I know it's hard
8:14
Speaker 1: to blame him for that Friday night loss. Uh what
8:17
Speaker 1: was it? Once strike away from a save and the uh,
8:21
Speaker 1: somebody just doinked a double over the first baseman's head
8:25
Speaker 1: and an air. Really tough loss there, but boy, I'm
8:29
Speaker 1: not saying the Angels are in first place with a
8:31
Speaker 1: good closer, but I'm guessing with Ben Joyce healthy all year,
8:37
Speaker 1: some of those blone saves we saw earlier would have
8:41
Speaker 1: been wins. What a what a nice addition he's been.
8:45
Speaker 2: Agree he's a he's got the goods. It's the sustainability
8:50
Speaker 2: that the health. Really the health throwing because he seems
8:54
Speaker 2: like I mean his cruising out that's there, you know,
8:57
Speaker 2: his velocity is I mean it's not it's not effortless
9:01
Speaker 2: per se, but that's just how it comes out. I Mean,
9:03
Speaker 2: he's just a hundred and they can get up to
9:07
Speaker 2: goofy one hundred and four and a half or whatever
9:10
Speaker 2: it was the other day. So yeah, I guess from
9:13
Speaker 2: the perspective of washing enough baseball and just seeing how
9:16
Speaker 2: few guys can do that, I don't always love seeing
9:19
Speaker 2: those numbers, even if they result in a bobblehead. But
9:24
Speaker 2: I'd like to see him out there for full seasons,
9:27
Speaker 2: is what I'm getting. Yeah, and he really can, you know,
9:30
Speaker 2: because he even though the hitters know what's coming, he's
9:33
Speaker 2: still got a fastball that they can't do much with
9:36
Speaker 2: it when he locates it.
9:38
Speaker 1: Relatively for sure. Hey, we're going to take a quick
9:40
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10:53
Speaker 1: And welcome back to Halo territory with Mark Trumbo and
10:56
Speaker 1: Mike Dgievanna. Well, when Mike Maddox was fired, GM John
11:01
Speaker 1: Mozaylock made a point of saying that Maddicks and his staff,
11:04
Speaker 1: we're not using available technology sufficiently read Dettmer's even said
11:10
Speaker 1: that day that he had to start asking him to
11:12
Speaker 1: use track Man during bullpen sessions after the All Star break.
11:16
Speaker 1: Let's remind viewers and listeners exactly what track Man does.
11:22
Speaker 1: Provides detailed information about every pitch thrown. It measures metrics
11:26
Speaker 1: such as pitch velocity, spin rate, spin access, vertical and
11:31
Speaker 1: horizontal movement, release point, and these insights allow pitchers and
11:36
Speaker 1: coaches to understand exactly how each pitch behaves and make
11:41
Speaker 1: adjustments to improve effectiveness. I know you didn't pitch in
11:45
Speaker 1: the big leagues, Mark, but I'm sure you've seen a
11:47
Speaker 1: few bullpen sessions on the side and know how these
11:50
Speaker 1: pitchers operate today. What can what kind of difference can
11:54
Speaker 1: using this tech like in a you know, on a
11:57
Speaker 1: side session do for these pitch and why does it
12:02
Speaker 1: seem to have made a pretty big difference with these guys?
12:06
Speaker 2: I wonder what do you think the reason Maddox was
12:09
Speaker 2: opposed to it? Is that just an arrogance thing? Or
12:12
Speaker 2: is that laziness? Or is that just he a philosophical thing?
12:16
Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't I'm not gonna sit here and pretend
12:19
Speaker 1: I know Mike Maddox all that well, but I know
12:22
Speaker 1: the type. He's a veteran guy, He's an old school guy.
12:25
Speaker 1: I can only surmise that his you know, it's kind
12:28
Speaker 1: of like Mike Associate at the end. You know, he
12:30
Speaker 1: didn't exactly embrace all the analytics and all the info
12:34
Speaker 1: that he maybe could have maybe he should have. And
12:37
Speaker 1: I just think Mike Maddox is probably cut a little
12:39
Speaker 1: bit from the same cloth. You know, he's pretty set
12:42
Speaker 1: in his ways, and those ways have worked pretty darn
12:44
Speaker 1: well over the years. You know, he took a ranger
12:47
Speaker 1: staff that I don't I'm not even sure it was
12:49
Speaker 1: all that great in twenty three and tournament a World
12:51
Speaker 1: Series winner, So it's hard to argue with stuff like that.
12:56
Speaker 1: I don't know that he was stuck in his ways.
12:59
Speaker 1: But I just do find a little odd, maybe a
13:01
Speaker 1: little striking, maybe a little odd that of all the
13:04
Speaker 1: things that could turn around the Angels pitching this year, it's,
13:08
Speaker 1: you know, using technology that everybody uses.
13:12
Speaker 2: I don't think it's that strange, and I don't think
13:14
Speaker 2: the adjustments they've made are strange at all. It's exactly
13:17
Speaker 2: what the Dodgers, for example, have been doing for years now,
13:22
Speaker 2: is streamlining a new acquisition, saying this is these are
13:26
Speaker 2: the pitches you're going to throw, this is why you're
13:28
Speaker 2: going to throw them. And if a pitch isn't netting
13:32
Speaker 2: out or grating out as a positive, we're going to
13:34
Speaker 2: get rid of it. We're not going to use it.
13:36
Speaker 2: Why would you use it? And I think I don't
13:38
Speaker 2: know if Maddox was looking at these reports as far
13:40
Speaker 2: as the pitch grades, and for those that don't like them,
13:44
Speaker 2: I don't really care. It's one of those things that's
13:47
Speaker 2: here to stay. And a guy like Detmer's obviously benefits
13:51
Speaker 2: from this. Grayson Rodriguez, they're young enough to the point
13:55
Speaker 2: they came up and this is what they are used to.
13:57
Speaker 2: So I think when you take it away, it feels.
14:00
Speaker 2: Probably they like for me not being able to hit
14:02
Speaker 2: batting practice outside. I got very used to that and
14:06
Speaker 2: one of the days that I didn't do that, try
14:08
Speaker 2: and do what you can, but you're not always mentally
14:12
Speaker 2: feeling like you were as prepared. So with reed, and
14:16
Speaker 2: why do golfers use it? If you look at any range,
14:18
Speaker 2: they cover everything now on the tour, but they have
14:21
Speaker 2: some sort of almost every player. I just may it
14:24
Speaker 2: probably is every player has a unit sitting on the
14:27
Speaker 2: ground measuring their distance, their curvature, their angle of their swing,
14:32
Speaker 2: all these things. And why you have it is because
14:35
Speaker 2: it can shortcut some adjustments on any given day or
14:39
Speaker 2: at least give you some feedback like, hey, why does
14:41
Speaker 2: it look like it's not doing what it's supposed to. Well,
14:44
Speaker 2: you look down, you look at the numbers, you look
14:46
Speaker 2: at some of the things, and if you are versed
14:49
Speaker 2: in it well enough, you can make those adjustments quicker
14:52
Speaker 2: than struggling with a feel thing. I think Mike Maddox
14:55
Speaker 2: was huge on feel some of the videos in spring,
14:58
Speaker 2: and there weren't a lot, but it seems like he
15:00
Speaker 2: really and that's something that I think we connect a
15:04
Speaker 2: lot more with a veteran pitcher of Verlander or de Grom,
15:07
Speaker 2: somebody like that. They may use this a lot, they
15:09
Speaker 2: might use it not at all. But for the younger
15:12
Speaker 2: pitchers that came up through the miners using it, I
15:14
Speaker 2: think it's pretty crucial that you use it.
15:18
Speaker 1: A team obviously was on the road all last week.
15:20
Speaker 1: Jeff Fletcher the OC Register did talk to some of
15:22
Speaker 1: these pictures about this very topic. Wrote a good story
15:26
Speaker 1: about this on Friday. The most obvious change is that
15:30
Speaker 1: now all pitchers throw all their bullpen sessions with the
15:33
Speaker 1: full complement of hardware, specifically track band devices under Maddox.
15:37
Speaker 1: The Angels used it in spring training, but sporadically in
15:39
Speaker 1: the regular season. Quote in Baltimore, we used it a lot.
15:43
Speaker 1: Right hand or Grayson Rodriguez said, I think it can
15:45
Speaker 1: help for me. In the beginning of the year, I
15:48
Speaker 1: was struggling with my stuff. It wasn't where it needed
15:50
Speaker 1: to be, with the movement patterns and different stuff like that.
15:53
Speaker 1: I wish I would have had it a little bit earlier.
15:55
Speaker 1: It's a useful tool for sure. Left hand to Reid
15:59
Speaker 1: deadver Sait, he started at asking to use track Man
16:01
Speaker 1: more after the All Star break, A few weeks before
16:04
Speaker 1: the staff changed. Detmer's came into Friday and I start
16:06
Speaker 1: with a one point eight three year since the All
16:08
Speaker 1: Star break. Detmer said, the benefit of the technology is
16:12
Speaker 1: how to maintain quote to see if everything is right. Well,
16:21
Speaker 1: it's it's really interesting, Uh, you know the I agree
16:25
Speaker 1: with you on the veteran pitcher and the young pitcher.
16:29
Speaker 1: It's an interesting sort of dichotomy in the game right now. Uh.
16:32
Speaker 1: And we also we did catch up with Tim Leveck,
16:36
Speaker 1: the new Angels interim pitching coach, before they went on
16:39
Speaker 1: the road, and this was sort of before a lot
16:42
Speaker 1: of these things were actually implemented. This was a couple
16:44
Speaker 1: of days into his tenure. Let's see what he had
16:47
Speaker 1: to say about his approach and his philosophy.
16:54
Speaker 4: Just the first question we have to ask you was,
16:56
Speaker 4: because they made a big deal of an attention, what
16:58
Speaker 4: was your.
16:58
Speaker 5: Philosophy about using all those You know, my philosophy has
17:02
Speaker 5: been to just try to use as much information as
17:04
Speaker 5: I can because ultimately, at the end of the day,
17:06
Speaker 5: it's about making the right decision, right, what my instinct
17:09
Speaker 5: tells me, what information the organization has, how I know
17:12
Speaker 5: the guys, and just trying to use everything that we
17:15
Speaker 5: have to try and make the best decisions possible. What
17:18
Speaker 5: was your time I get in Double A and then
17:19
Speaker 5: obviously you know some of these guys that are up
17:20
Speaker 5: there now that's like kind of healthy probably want Yeah,
17:24
Speaker 5: I had, I had Weeman, I had Murphy in Double A,
17:28
Speaker 5: which was you know, and I had arm Ryan Johnson
17:30
Speaker 5: as well.
17:31
Speaker 2: So it was good.
17:32
Speaker 5: It was a good group there, and it was really
17:34
Speaker 5: cool to see them go from Double A up here.
17:37
Speaker 1: It was really neat to see.
17:38
Speaker 4: I know it's a really short window here, but what
17:40
Speaker 4: are some of the things that we're hoping that you're
17:41
Speaker 4: going to be able to implement with those kind of
17:43
Speaker 4: pitching group here in the final forty two years?
17:46
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think you know.
17:46
Speaker 5: The first thing to do is I know a lot.
17:48
Speaker 5: I know some of them, Like I just mentioned, there's
17:50
Speaker 5: some is establishing relationships, getting to know the guys, getting
17:54
Speaker 5: to know what makes them take, getting you know, to
17:56
Speaker 5: know what they want. And I'm really just here to
17:58
Speaker 5: serve them to try make them the best they can be.
18:02
Speaker 4: Is there like a full losophy that you have towards pitching?
18:05
Speaker 4: Maybe you've got to see this organization have that you know,
18:08
Speaker 4: really maybe something you've talked about with Mo about what
18:11
Speaker 4: you did do he know, what did you find?
18:12
Speaker 5: I mean, I just think my you know, my overall
18:13
Speaker 5: philosophy is really just you know, knowing what picture strengths
18:17
Speaker 5: are and being able to individualize like you can, and
18:20
Speaker 5: to try and get guys to understand who they are
18:22
Speaker 5: and to be able to go out into the game
18:24
Speaker 5: and execute their strengths. Is I think a goal for
18:27
Speaker 5: every pitcher at every level, from the lower minor leagues
18:29
Speaker 5: to the big leagues. And I would say, you know,
18:31
Speaker 5: that's a general philosophy that I have. I just want
18:33
Speaker 5: to know what their strengths are and how we can
18:36
Speaker 5: leverage those in the game. Off the Cardinals for a
18:39
Speaker 5: lot of time a lot did you know Mo well there?
18:40
Speaker 5: And what reaction like with that? Yeah, I've known MO
18:43
Speaker 5: really long time. I mean, the Cardinals hired me back
18:45
Speaker 5: in two thousand and six and I've worked my way
18:48
Speaker 5: up through the system there, So I've known MO since then.
18:51
Speaker 5: So what would that be twenty years?
18:53
Speaker 1: So I've known them a long time. This is an
18:55
Speaker 1: easier said than.
18:56
Speaker 2: Done question, I'm sure, But the Angels have walked a
18:58
Speaker 2: lot of guys this year.
19:00
Speaker 1: How do you make at prove it?
19:02
Speaker 5: I mean, I think with with walks and throwing strikes,
19:05
Speaker 5: it's just a general philosophy to control the count as
19:07
Speaker 5: much as possible, to be aggressive in the zone. I
19:10
Speaker 5: don't think.
19:11
Speaker 2: Something like that.
19:11
Speaker 5: It doesn't happen overnight. There's a lot of reasons why
19:14
Speaker 5: walk rates can be what they are. But it's just
19:17
Speaker 5: my job to try unlock whatever I can with individual guys,
19:20
Speaker 5: to try and get them, you know, the guys inn'tmate,
19:23
Speaker 5: you know, maybe have to attack the zone a little
19:25
Speaker 5: bit more to get them to do that.
19:27
Speaker 1: In general, do you think guys are better off pitching
19:30
Speaker 1: to their strengths as opposed to a scouting report that
19:32
Speaker 1: identifies this weakness or that one.
19:35
Speaker 5: I think it's always a blend. I think I always
19:37
Speaker 5: you know you you you want to know what the
19:39
Speaker 5: weaknesses of the hitters are, obviously, but you also want
19:42
Speaker 5: to know your strengths, and I think ideally you want
19:44
Speaker 5: to blend those two together. In a perfect world, that's
19:46
Speaker 5: what you're trying to do. How your strength might play
19:48
Speaker 5: against someone's weakness.
19:53
Speaker 1: And Mark the last thing Tim said there is talking
19:56
Speaker 1: about blending. You know, are there his pictures strengths with
20:02
Speaker 1: the batter's weakness, But sound like from what you said earlier,
20:06
Speaker 1: it seems like it's been more focusing more on the
20:10
Speaker 1: angels pictures strengths. Is that sort of the what you've
20:14
Speaker 1: seen more than maybe worrying so much about the batter's weaknesses.
20:18
Speaker 2: I think that's the right approach in general. I think
20:20
Speaker 2: that pictures need to have the mentality that the hitter
20:24
Speaker 2: can't hit their stuff, and if you're worried that they might,
20:28
Speaker 2: you're in a bad spot. I really like what Tim
20:32
Speaker 2: had to say there. It's interesting they went to double
20:35
Speaker 2: A to get promote Tim and Shane Luke's in Salt
20:39
Speaker 2: Lake when these things happened. I really liked that interview.
20:43
Speaker 2: I hadn't heard anything from Tim before, but it seems
20:47
Speaker 2: like there's no ego. He's there to make these guys
20:49
Speaker 2: better whatever is needed. One thing that I wonder if
20:55
Speaker 2: a guy like Reed Detmeer's, you know, we waited until
20:57
Speaker 2: after the break to finally say something, and it sounds
21:00
Speaker 2: like Grayson could have really benefited much earlier from this stuff.
21:04
Speaker 2: And I wonder if they just didn't feel like they
21:06
Speaker 2: could approach a guy of Mike Maddox's stature of his resume.
21:12
Speaker 2: I don't know him at all, but well I did
21:15
Speaker 2: one of the All Star teams. He was the pitching coach.
21:17
Speaker 2: That's the extent of it. Some quick conversations, but he's
21:21
Speaker 2: no doubt got a presence and maybe a little these
21:24
Speaker 2: guys were intimidated to ask for fear that he might
21:28
Speaker 2: tell him to take a walk or figure it out.
21:31
Speaker 2: You can't rely on this as a crutch or something
21:35
Speaker 2: like that. But I don't think it's a crutch. I
21:36
Speaker 2: think it's a useful tool. And one question I guess
21:40
Speaker 2: for you why didn't general manager Perry Manassian insist on
21:45
Speaker 2: using the tech? Though? I'm serious? Why did he? I mean,
21:48
Speaker 2: he apparently is there all the timer was and looking
21:52
Speaker 2: for every advantage he could get, and he saw a
21:55
Speaker 2: guy that wasn't using the tech? What's up with that?
21:57
Speaker 1: Once again, I am not in there every I can
22:00
Speaker 1: only surmise that he probably deferred to the veteran pitching coach.
22:03
Speaker 1: In this situation, and with a rookie manager who clearly
22:08
Speaker 1: needed some help with pitching changes and usage, especially early
22:13
Speaker 1: in the season, I'm sure they deferred a lot to
22:15
Speaker 1: Mike Maddox. That's probably why they brought them in. So
22:19
Speaker 1: I don't have any other really theories outside of that,
22:22
Speaker 1: but I do I do agree with what you said,
22:25
Speaker 1: especially with a young guy like Detmvers and Grayson's still
22:27
Speaker 1: a pretty young guy too. Yeah, you look at that resume.
22:30
Speaker 1: I'm sure. I'm sure he was a rookie. Didn't march
22:32
Speaker 1: into Mike Socia's office and start saying, you know, making
22:36
Speaker 1: this demand or that demand. It's it can be a.
22:38
Speaker 2: Little into you want you want an anecdote, though you
22:40
Speaker 2: want a small anecdote. I was told I was given
22:43
Speaker 2: a day off mental break. You know what those are. Oh, yeah,
22:48
Speaker 2: it means you suck. And uh, I remember Tory we
22:52
Speaker 2: were in Oakland. I'll make it quick, but he wasn't
22:55
Speaker 2: in the lineup and he said it was later in
22:57
Speaker 2: the season. He said, you got to go in there
22:58
Speaker 2: and tell him you want to play. I was like, really,
23:02
Speaker 2: and he said yes, so so so I did.
23:06
Speaker 1: Uh.
23:08
Speaker 2: I did what I could. I was polite, but I
23:10
Speaker 2: said I I'd really like to be in there. I
23:12
Speaker 2: think I can help the team win. And he said,
23:14
Speaker 2: I appreciate that You're going to be on the bench.
23:17
Speaker 2: And I was on the bench, but I think that
23:20
Speaker 2: there it said something and the hopefully Torrey wasn't getting
23:24
Speaker 2: his rocks off watching me walk the play, But no,
23:28
Speaker 2: I remember that. So there you go.
23:31
Speaker 1: We could take another quick break for a word from
23:33
Speaker 1: our sponsors, and we come back. We'll talk a little
23:35
Speaker 1: bit a little more in depth about the guy who's
23:38
Speaker 1: been leading the staff read Debt Mears. We'll be right back.
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24:43
Speaker 1: And welcome back to Hillo Territory with Mark Trumbull and
24:46
Speaker 1: Mike dg Vonna. Well one picture of this pitching coach
24:50
Speaker 1: change in tech definitely appears to have helped is Read
24:53
Speaker 1: Debt Meers, who in seven starts since July's seventeenth, has
24:58
Speaker 1: thrown forty in the third innings twenty five hits, seven
25:02
Speaker 1: earned runs, nine walks, forty nine strikeouts. That's a one
25:06
Speaker 1: point five to six e er. Denmvers has only one
25:09
Speaker 1: win during the stretch because the Angels scored have not
25:11
Speaker 1: scored more than one run for him since June twenty seventh,
25:15
Speaker 1: but the left hander clearly has been one of baseball's
25:18
Speaker 1: best pitchers for the last month well Mark. As we know,
25:22
Speaker 1: there was heavy speculation going into the trade deadline that
25:25
Speaker 1: the Angels could trade Read Detmer's and or support Jose
25:29
Speaker 1: Soriano maybe both. They did deal Soriano the Blue Jays
25:33
Speaker 1: for three prospects. Did did the Angels keep the right
25:38
Speaker 1: guy in your mind?
25:39
Speaker 5: Mark?
25:41
Speaker 2: Kind of questions that come on man long, long term,
25:44
Speaker 2: long term, you know, I think so. I like read.
25:47
Speaker 2: I've all anybody that watches regularly knows that I have
25:51
Speaker 2: spoken highly of him, as have others. Clayton Curse, I remember,
25:56
Speaker 2: was mentioned on the broadcast today. This guy doesn't even
25:59
Speaker 2: know how good he is, and I think that that
26:01
Speaker 2: may be partially true. I think he's starting to realize, hopefully,
26:06
Speaker 2: and that is a good thing because he will be
26:08
Speaker 2: able to go out there against any team, you know,
26:12
Speaker 2: great offense, mediocre offense, whatever, and it's got to be
26:15
Speaker 2: the mentality of my stuff's gonna gonna play against anybody,
26:19
Speaker 2: come and get it. And when he pounds the strike zone,
26:21
Speaker 2: gets ahead of guys, and he's got those wipeout breaking balls,
26:25
Speaker 2: both the curveball and a slider. He's extremely tough to hit.
26:28
Speaker 2: I mean, he's got no no hitter type stuff. Anybody
26:30
Speaker 2: that's capable of throwing a no hitter in the big
26:32
Speaker 2: leagues has the goods and it's great to see. I
26:36
Speaker 2: think that I'd like to see at some point, which
26:40
Speaker 2: I never will what the packages may have looked like
26:42
Speaker 2: for Read, but they should have asked for the world.
26:46
Speaker 2: They didn't get it, and I think the Angels are
26:47
Speaker 2: better because they have Read and they're going to have
26:50
Speaker 2: him for hopefully many years to come.
26:52
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's hard to determine or to figure out exactly
26:56
Speaker 1: to what extent this rebuild will go. This win. You know,
27:01
Speaker 1: they could look to trade Zach Netto and Read debtmers
27:03
Speaker 1: and really get a haul for both of them and
27:06
Speaker 1: have a good young nucleus that you could maybe project
27:09
Speaker 1: in two to three years would contend, but I don't know.
27:13
Speaker 1: I part of me going into the trade deadline was like,
27:17
Speaker 1: you know, sell everybody for not whatever you can get,
27:20
Speaker 1: but if you can get, you know, premium packages for
27:22
Speaker 1: debtmers and Netto. I don't think I would have hesitated
27:25
Speaker 1: making those deals. Clearly they did not get what they
27:28
Speaker 1: want at this point, I think the Angels really need
27:31
Speaker 1: to look at locking up Read Detmers. I agree with
27:34
Speaker 1: you Mark. You know he did throw the no hit
27:37
Speaker 1: or was it four years ago now, and he didn't
27:40
Speaker 1: really live up to that for the next year and
27:43
Speaker 1: then he gets thrown into the boltpen in twenty five
27:47
Speaker 1: and then he's you know, he had a really good
27:48
Speaker 1: year in the bultpen. Now he's back in the rotation
27:50
Speaker 1: looking like an ace or a great number two. And
27:54
Speaker 1: he's still really young. You know, this is a first
27:56
Speaker 1: round pick. I think they really need to to me,
28:00
Speaker 1: he's a guy this team can build around pitching wise.
28:03
Speaker 1: You know, there's some pitching still in the pipeline. Who
28:07
Speaker 1: knows if George Clawsan's gonna pan out. He looks pretty
28:09
Speaker 1: good so far. We I know, we haven't seen the
28:11
Speaker 1: best of Grayson Rodriguez. You know, you say, Kokuchi Is,
28:15
Speaker 1: he's got one more year left on that contract. I'm
28:18
Speaker 1: not seeing him as a long term fit here. So
28:21
Speaker 1: you're you're still gonna need a lot of a lot
28:23
Speaker 1: of pitching thirty five years old, I mean all right,
28:26
Speaker 1: short long term as in maybe a year or two
28:28
Speaker 1: beyond his curag. You know they're gonna need pitching still
28:33
Speaker 1: in twenty twenty seven and twenty twenty eight. But you know,
28:36
Speaker 1: to me, Reed demers Is, he's a guy right now,
28:39
Speaker 1: and I don't know what's gonna cost to lock him up.
28:43
Speaker 1: He's in a really good position. He has not had
28:45
Speaker 1: a lot elbows elbow surgery. That's the reason I felt
28:49
Speaker 1: Soriano was the better pitcher to trade because of the
28:52
Speaker 1: two surgeries. I think, you know, being left handed does
28:56
Speaker 1: that help. I don't know. In some minds it does,
28:58
Speaker 1: mind it, mind it. I just think he's a really
29:01
Speaker 1: good young pitcher, and if the Angels want to compete
29:05
Speaker 1: in the next one to three years, he's a guy
29:08
Speaker 1: they need to keep around.
29:11
Speaker 2: I agree. I think that he's a guy to build around.
29:13
Speaker 2: That's what you need. And if you supplement another above
29:19
Speaker 2: average starting pitcher to this, you start to have a team.
29:23
Speaker 2: Now they're going to have to improve in some areas
29:25
Speaker 2: on defense, obviously, but they've already made improvements too, especially
29:28
Speaker 2: at the catcher position. The defense is quite a bit better.
29:31
Speaker 2: Even by a Staros who a topic on the show.
29:35
Speaker 2: I still contend that he's looked quite good. He played
29:38
Speaker 2: a nice first base today. He's got some pop in
29:40
Speaker 2: that bat. I told you he's got and you saw
29:43
Speaker 2: it to you know he did. But yes, he's got
29:47
Speaker 2: a bit of a leg kick, But people that get
29:49
Speaker 2: fixated on leg kicks may not know what they're always.
29:56
Speaker 1: Then you notice a Sunday's game he ditched a leg
29:58
Speaker 1: kick with two strikes.
30:00
Speaker 2: It's easier said than done. I believe that if yeah,
30:06
Speaker 2: I think that that's probably a good thing. And he's
30:09
Speaker 2: a guy with very good hand eye in my opinion,
30:11
Speaker 2: both on defense and at the plate. And I think
30:15
Speaker 2: that he's already kind of hitting in the middle of
30:17
Speaker 2: the order, not kind of he was hitting what third
30:19
Speaker 2: the other day and maybe a bit lower today. Memory is, anyway,
30:26
Speaker 2: he is driving the ball haven't gone out of the park,
30:29
Speaker 2: but you can tell that they will. And he's still
30:32
Speaker 2: twenty two years old. And Ryan Zephyr Johnes got over
30:34
Speaker 2: a seven.
30:35
Speaker 1: For the Cubs. Well, speaking of guys you scrapped leg
30:40
Speaker 1: kicks early in their Angels ten years. Zach Nettow had
30:43
Speaker 1: quite a road trip fourteen for twenty eight with two
30:46
Speaker 1: homers and nine RBIs and he had what was it,
30:51
Speaker 1: five hits and seven RBIs and Thursday Nights eighteen to
30:54
Speaker 1: three win over the Astros. Jeez, be nice. I think
30:57
Speaker 1: he just could spread a few of those runs out
31:00
Speaker 1: of the week. He also had two doubles and a
31:02
Speaker 1: triple in Saturday Nights three. Nothing went over Texas as
31:07
Speaker 1: impressive as I think was at a four hundred and
31:09
Speaker 1: twenty eight foot homer he hit. I thought the triple
31:12
Speaker 1: he hit in Saturday night's game, he goes goes with
31:18
Speaker 1: a down and away splitter from a lefty Robbie Alstrom
31:21
Speaker 1: for a triple into the right field corner. I mean,
31:24
Speaker 1: how many times have we seen him try to hook
31:25
Speaker 1: that ball in the left field corner or over the wall?
31:29
Speaker 1: Are you seeing a turn in Zach Netto this past
31:32
Speaker 1: week that you know, gives you some optimism that maybe
31:36
Speaker 1: he's gonna have a little more plate discipline plan and
31:40
Speaker 1: not try to yank everything over the left field wall.
31:42
Speaker 2: He's showing it he has more plate discipline. Look at
31:45
Speaker 2: earlier in the year he walked it, sure walked, Yeah,
31:48
Speaker 2: And what I did see is a different batting stance.
31:51
Speaker 2: It caught me totally off guard the other day and
31:53
Speaker 2: I rewound it. So I said, what in the world
31:55
Speaker 2: a flat bat on the shoulder? And I didn't see
31:57
Speaker 2: any explanation until Erica today covered well that and she
32:04
Speaker 2: said she asked him about it. Where did that come from?
32:07
Speaker 2: Because I too wondered who got in this guy's ear?
32:09
Speaker 2: And why did it possibly take until late August for
32:13
Speaker 2: some sort of adjustment? He said, he just tried it
32:15
Speaker 2: in batting practice the other day and it felt good,
32:18
Speaker 2: so he said he felt like he had to do something.
32:21
Speaker 2: Must have recognized that the strikeouts were on the high side,
32:26
Speaker 2: very high side, and at some point you got to
32:30
Speaker 2: get frustrated just flailing that pitches that are out of
32:33
Speaker 2: the strike zone down and the way. And good for
32:35
Speaker 2: him for if it was that adjustment came from within,
32:39
Speaker 2: that's even better because it shows some awareness, some self
32:43
Speaker 2: evaluation that I got to do something, I got to
32:45
Speaker 2: do something different. And he's extremely talented. He beat this
32:49
Speaker 2: horse to death and back. But if he wants to
32:53
Speaker 2: do something, he can do it. He's going to have
32:54
Speaker 2: another twenty twenty twenty and very promising. We can cover
32:58
Speaker 2: this more next time. Christian Moore was the one that
33:00
Speaker 2: I was interested in and one thing that I wasn't
33:04
Speaker 2: totally hit to because he had a limited exposure previous time.
33:07
Speaker 2: But he seems to have a weakness hit in the
33:09
Speaker 2: high heater. Did you notice that? Did you see any Yeah?
33:13
Speaker 1: He struck out at least twice over the weekend on
33:16
Speaker 1: high heaters. Yeah, I mean high heaters in the big
33:20
Speaker 1: leagues are a little different than they are in the
33:21
Speaker 1: minor leagues, right, and so are sweepers and biting sliders
33:26
Speaker 1: that look like they're over the plate to start and
33:28
Speaker 1: end up nine inches out off the plate. It's just
33:32
Speaker 1: a different beast. And you know, he did hit triple A.
33:35
Speaker 1: Pitching really well. I you know one thing I was
33:40
Speaker 1: encouraged by. He looked really good defensively. You know, he
33:42
Speaker 1: turned a couple of nice double plays over the weekend.
33:46
Speaker 1: And you know it's going to take a while for
33:49
Speaker 1: this bat to come around. I don't I still think
33:53
Speaker 1: that there's a talented player in there. Why what do
33:56
Speaker 1: you see in Mark? I know it's extremely small samples,
33:59
Speaker 1: just a couple of games.
34:00
Speaker 2: But I don't want to hear anything more about triple
34:02
Speaker 2: A statistics. Oh yeah, I'm just I'm just just don't
34:07
Speaker 2: they don't translate you guys, because the competition's watered down.
34:13
Speaker 2: The guys are playing in Mexico, the good players. It's
34:17
Speaker 2: not back when I played, But it was different when
34:19
Speaker 2: I played. The competition guys were getting well, they get
34:22
Speaker 2: paid a lot. I don't know what the going rate
34:24
Speaker 2: is for a minor league free agent, but teams wanted
34:28
Speaker 2: that depth and you were going to find better players
34:30
Speaker 2: in Triple A. Now teams don't even want their guys
34:32
Speaker 2: going to Triple A. Kate Anderson debuted for the Mariners
34:35
Speaker 2: the other day with five and two thirds. Gave up
34:38
Speaker 2: a couple of homers, but look very competitive. And Tyler
34:41
Speaker 2: Bremner we've talked about that very nice start in double A.
34:44
Speaker 2: I think seven shutout innings. So for those I mean,
34:47
Speaker 2: we are watching trying to keep up with these things.
34:50
Speaker 2: But Christian Moore was talking about needing to make a
34:52
Speaker 2: tighter turn to cover the high heater. I will need
34:56
Speaker 2: to look into that. I don't know what he meant
34:58
Speaker 2: by that, but I think what he what he's needing
35:01
Speaker 2: to do is get the bat head out. If you're
35:04
Speaker 2: going to hit the high heater, you can't have a
35:06
Speaker 2: bat that's dragging, so you're gonna need to get that
35:09
Speaker 2: bat head out in front of the hands. If you're
35:11
Speaker 2: dragging the knob, you're in big trouble. So that's what
35:15
Speaker 2: I saw. The defense looked okay, not exceptional. I still
35:19
Speaker 2: need to see more there. He had a play that
35:23
Speaker 2: a double play wasn't turned. Kind of an errant throw
35:27
Speaker 2: throw from the catcher got into center and then he
35:29
Speaker 2: one hopped by a steros on a routine play. So
35:33
Speaker 2: I guess no more left field, that's for sure.
35:37
Speaker 1: Yeah, I but when no one shad well on the
35:41
Speaker 1: d I l for a while. At least he's going
35:44
Speaker 1: to get a runway. We're going to get a good
35:45
Speaker 1: look at him here on this next Homestand hey, Mike Trout,
35:50
Speaker 1: had he struggled with a high heater when he was
35:52
Speaker 1: winning all those MVP awards, Can somebody like him help
35:56
Speaker 1: a young guy like Christian Moore with that pitch?
36:00
Speaker 2: To be honest, I don't really think that anyone but yourself.
36:04
Speaker 2: And get in the reps and you got to the
36:06
Speaker 2: thing is do you really want to offer at it?
36:08
Speaker 2: That's always the conundrum. Is it a strike? Is it
36:10
Speaker 2: a pitch that you can do anything with? Because he
36:12
Speaker 2: struck out looking today, didn't challenge on pitches that they
36:16
Speaker 2: were balls. They were below the poor officiating for a
36:20
Speaker 2: couple of the games recently, and he didn't challenge. But
36:24
Speaker 2: he's the young guy, so a lot of guys aren't
36:27
Speaker 2: very confident to do so. But I think the best
36:32
Speaker 2: plan of attack is to lay off that pitch as
36:34
Speaker 2: much as possible. If you're going to keep offering at it,
36:36
Speaker 2: you better find a way to hit it. And I
36:38
Speaker 2: think the way to do it is like he did
36:40
Speaker 2: in his last about you got to pull it. He
36:42
Speaker 2: did drive the ball, might have been looking for it
36:43
Speaker 2: against Lats, but you can't try and go the other
36:46
Speaker 2: way with a high heater in the big leagues.
36:48
Speaker 1: Yeah, all right, Hey, that's going to do it for
36:50
Speaker 1: us today. Thanks for watching, Thanks for tuning in. Please
36:56
Speaker 1: like and subscribe, and we will see you next time
36:59
Speaker 1: on Halo Territory, right