Latest / The You Project / #1865 When Nobody's Cheering - Bobby Cappuccio

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#1865 When Nobody's Cheering - Bobby Cappuccio · The You Project

0:00
Speaker 1: Bobby Capuccio, Welcome back to the show, my friend. How
0:03
Speaker 1: are you.
0:04
Speaker 2: I'm doing all right. I think I feel like I
0:06
Speaker 2: got this Princess Leia thing going on with these headsets.
0:09
Speaker 2: I just noticed that.
0:11
Speaker 1: You look beautiful, and you're in a new place. I
0:13
Speaker 1: said to him, he's moved. I won't tell you what
0:16
Speaker 1: city lives in. Well, I can probably tell them you
0:18
Speaker 1: live in San Diego. That's not a big deal, is it,
0:20
Speaker 1: But I said.
0:21
Speaker 2: It's nothing to be ashamed of it.
0:23
Speaker 1: He's recently moved houses. And I said, oh, where do
0:27
Speaker 1: you live now? And he said, I'm not far. I
0:29
Speaker 1: just moved across the car park to a close I'm like,
0:32
Speaker 1: that doesn't help, which, yeah, I didn't even know which city.
0:37
Speaker 2: So other than I'm right across the car park from
0:41
Speaker 2: here on Hampton by the seven to eleven, I live
0:43
Speaker 2: there now.
0:44
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's hilarious.
0:48
Speaker 2: Yeah.
0:48
Speaker 1: Well, and you've got a new studio. Your studio is
0:50
Speaker 1: very nice. And you did tell tell me in secret
0:53
Speaker 1: that you've got fake bricks, So I won't tell anybody
0:57
Speaker 1: what looks like real bricks behind you, but they're fake.
1:02
Speaker 2: But it trusted you with that. Ye last time I
1:06
Speaker 2: discussed my bricks.
1:07
Speaker 1: With you, Hopes. Yeah, yeah, don't tell me any state
1:10
Speaker 1: secrets because all they need to do is threat to
1:13
Speaker 1: pull my fingernails, and I'm just coughing up everything. There's
1:15
Speaker 1: no water boarding happening at my joint, that's for sure.
1:19
Speaker 1: Could you imagine dealing with that? I often think about
1:22
Speaker 1: because I watch a lot of bullshit and I listened.
1:24
Speaker 1: Have you ever listened to The Gray Man the book series?
1:28
Speaker 1: Now you heard of The Gray Man?
1:31
Speaker 2: Now?
1:32
Speaker 1: Ah? Oh god, oh if you're a I'm being very
1:37
Speaker 1: sexist here, but it's probably more a guy thing than
1:39
Speaker 1: a girl thing. But if you ever just want to escapism.
1:42
Speaker 1: Although I'm sure some women listen to espionage and spy
1:46
Speaker 1: stuff and killy stabby you know, good guys, bad guys stuff.
1:50
Speaker 1: I'm sure some ladies do, but I've never listened to like,
1:56
Speaker 1: in the last I don't know, thirty years, I probably
2:00
Speaker 1: have not read a book that's been fiction. I'm always
2:05
Speaker 1: just like you, just reading stuff that I think on
2:07
Speaker 1: some level I'm going to learn something, but about.
2:11
Speaker 2: I don't know.
2:12
Speaker 1: Not that many months ago, three or four months ago,
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Speaker 1: I went, I'm going to listen to just something which
2:17
Speaker 1: is just it's bullshit. It's not real. It's a story,
2:21
Speaker 1: and I'm not going to listen to something to learn
2:23
Speaker 1: to educate. I'm not going to learn about the brain,
2:26
Speaker 1: or the mind or the And since then, I've listened
2:29
Speaker 1: to nine books in the gray Man series, and I'm
2:33
Speaker 1: a little bit addicted, a little bit in this character
2:36
Speaker 1: called Court Gentry, who's the best assassin in the world.
2:41
Speaker 1: And of course he only kills bad people. So yeah,
2:44
Speaker 1: I reckon you should take a listen at some stage.
2:47
Speaker 2: Well, he seems like a very likable game.
2:49
Speaker 1: He is.
2:51
Speaker 2: He kills a very important job. He's doing a great
2:53
Speaker 2: job for society, kind of like that stuff. So is
2:56
Speaker 2: it the character? Is there something specific within the play?
3:00
Speaker 1: Oh, it's just it's the whole. Like they're really good stories.
3:03
Speaker 1: It's really well written. You know, it's bullshit, you know,
3:06
Speaker 1: it's fictions. So the fact that people are getting killed
3:09
Speaker 1: left and right doesn't really matter. As my mum says,
3:12
Speaker 1: he only kills baddies and he protects the goodies, right,
3:16
Speaker 1: that's what mums. Everything's goodies and baddies. So it's been Yeah,
3:22
Speaker 1: for me, who's always got my face in an actual
3:25
Speaker 1: book or my ears in an actual book or reading
3:28
Speaker 1: like you reading a paper or talking about the meaning
3:31
Speaker 1: of life and going down these philosophical, psychological rabbit holes.
3:36
Speaker 1: It's good to just get out of the rabbit hole
3:38
Speaker 1: and do something that doesn't you know, that's just enjoyment.
3:42
Speaker 1: And so for me, it's been probably an hour or
3:45
Speaker 1: a day. I reckon when I'm out walking, I often
3:47
Speaker 1: just listen to the Gray Man. So when was the
3:50
Speaker 1: last time you read something like just a story?
3:54
Speaker 2: Oh wow, that's very long time ago. I think it's
3:58
Speaker 2: a blind spot of mine. I think fiction. I think
4:02
Speaker 2: fiction is more real than real. And here's the reason
4:05
Speaker 2: why I'll say that. So right now, Wicked has become
4:10
Speaker 2: popular again because it was in cinema and you know,
4:13
Speaker 2: it was it was, It was okay, I kind of
4:16
Speaker 2: liked it. I just it's very hard to cinematically reproduce
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Speaker 2: what happens on the stage, and the book Wicked is
4:26
Speaker 2: so different than the actual play. But when you're reading
4:31
Speaker 2: that book, you realize that if you were reading a
4:35
Speaker 2: nonfiction book, you would not extract from it the same
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Speaker 2: depth and lessons because all of your cognitive biases would
4:44
Speaker 2: pop up, and all of your filters that you navigate
4:47
Speaker 2: through life with would be ever present there, and you'd
4:51
Speaker 2: start to edit and dissect. I agree with this. I
4:54
Speaker 2: don't like this, Oh she's good, she's bad. But when
4:57
Speaker 2: you're reading about a fictitious character, sure a lot of
5:01
Speaker 2: those filters are lowered, and it's talking about very serious,
5:05
Speaker 2: real life issues. It's talking about how we're told to
5:09
Speaker 2: look at things as a society is not necessarily how
5:12
Speaker 2: things are, and at your first glance you know very
5:16
Speaker 2: little to nothing about what's actually going on in the
5:20
Speaker 2: lives of people in the world around you. It tackles
5:23
Speaker 2: things like fascism, fanaticism, racism, like all of the really
5:29
Speaker 2: bad isms, and I think that you wouldn't really be
5:35
Speaker 2: able to connect with the lessons that Gregory maguire is
5:40
Speaker 2: trying to convey through the storyline if it was not fictitious.
5:44
Speaker 2: I think fiction is in a lot of ways more
5:49
Speaker 2: real than real. I mean, obviously there's not a green
5:52
Speaker 2: woman flying around on a broomstick, but what she's dealing
5:56
Speaker 2: with and the backdrop of that storyline and the arc
6:01
Speaker 2: it is is just as real as anything that we
6:05
Speaker 2: need to contend with in our lives. So I think
6:08
Speaker 2: my lack of delving into fiction is is a blind spot.
6:13
Speaker 2: I mean, of course, you know, my wife is former filmmaker.
6:17
Speaker 2: We watch we watch a lot of stuff like on Netflix,
6:21
Speaker 2: good shows, and we discuss it and what's the lesson
6:23
Speaker 2: we can extract from that, and and what really drove
6:27
Speaker 2: the character arc? What were the series of challenges that
6:30
Speaker 2: had to be overcome in order to facilitate the transformation.
6:36
Speaker 2: There's there's so many things that that we dialogue. We
6:38
Speaker 2: never just watch something just to watch something. But I
6:42
Speaker 2: think it's it's a lot different when you're reading because
6:46
Speaker 2: so so much of that multi century storytelling is not there,
6:50
Speaker 2: so you have to project that in the backdrop of
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Speaker 2: your mind.
6:53
Speaker 1: So yeah, yeah, I don't know, I think. But also
6:58
Speaker 1: you're right in the middle of the fiction, like so
7:01
Speaker 1: this guy was you know, her government, Operative CIA, all
7:05
Speaker 1: these things and I won't ruin it, but anyway, he's
7:07
Speaker 1: always in these very very you know, high pressure situations.
7:13
Speaker 1: And although it's fiction, it's based in like there's a
7:16
Speaker 1: lot of truth in the organizations that they talk about
7:19
Speaker 1: and the roles that these people fulfill, and the kind
7:24
Speaker 1: of scenarios and situations and challenges that actually get dealt with,
7:27
Speaker 1: probably more than we mere civilians could possibly comprehend. Right,
7:33
Speaker 1: there's so much shit going on all of these like
7:36
Speaker 1: literally covert operatives that government sanctioned, but not government you know,
7:42
Speaker 1: they're not government employees, but they're anyway. And I just
7:47
Speaker 1: thinking about and listening to these people dealing with pressure,
7:54
Speaker 1: like a kind of pressure that we probably wouldn't although
7:57
Speaker 1: pressure is subjective and blah blah blah, but and objective.
8:02
Speaker 1: But you know, I'm just thinking about this guy dealing
8:06
Speaker 1: with all of this stuff and wondering how how would
8:09
Speaker 1: I I would go, Not necessarily with being a fucking assassin,
8:12
Speaker 1: of course, but just the kind of situations that you
8:16
Speaker 1: need to be in and to be able to self regulate.
8:19
Speaker 1: You know, your emotions, your nervous system, you're breathing, your
8:23
Speaker 1: heart rate, your words, your actions, your responsors, like and
8:28
Speaker 1: I think that translates well, of course, that translates to
8:32
Speaker 1: life is how do I deal with pressure? How do
8:35
Speaker 1: I navigate situations and circumstances that I didn't choose or
8:38
Speaker 1: didn't want? And it's almost like everyone's a bit of
8:42
Speaker 1: a theoretical self help personal development human behavior genius until
8:47
Speaker 1: the shit hits the fan and then we're all fucking
8:50
Speaker 1: blithering idiots, you know. So it's like, how do I
8:54
Speaker 1: how do I be that stuff? How do I apply
8:58
Speaker 1: that stuff? How do I make this operational functional? So
9:00
Speaker 1: that all of these these ideas and lessons that I
9:05
Speaker 1: kind of lean into, am I actually doing something with
9:10
Speaker 1: that practically, so that I'm building a version of me
9:15
Speaker 1: that can cope with stress, that can climb the mountain,
9:19
Speaker 1: that can have the hard conversation, that will actually go
9:23
Speaker 1: to the gym when I don't want to go to
9:24
Speaker 1: the gym, that will do the thing that's inconvenient because
9:28
Speaker 1: it works like That's the the I don't know. That's
9:32
Speaker 1: the ongoing thing I think is being able to overcome that,
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Speaker 1: you know, that innate desire to take the easy path
9:42
Speaker 1: or to the quick fix or the magic pill, and
9:44
Speaker 1: then you wake up and you're five years down the
9:46
Speaker 1: track and you're still languishing.
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Speaker 2: You see, But even listen to what you're saying, there
9:53
Speaker 2: are certain belief systems and principles and assumptions and that,
9:58
Speaker 2: and you've got to ask how much of that did
10:00
Speaker 2: you arrive at from your own life experiences and conclusions,
10:04
Speaker 2: which I'm sure is a bit, and how much of
10:07
Speaker 2: that did you arrive at because of story, because people
10:11
Speaker 2: have figured out there are certain patterns in life that
10:15
Speaker 2: work out best for the community, for society, and make
10:18
Speaker 2: life easier for the individual. Like if you're someone who
10:23
Speaker 2: is working hard and you're focused on something and it's
10:27
Speaker 2: serving yourself, Like think about every single archetype. It's about
10:31
Speaker 2: somebody who is living in the status quo. But then
10:34
Speaker 2: there's an activating event, something that is disrupting someone's life
10:40
Speaker 2: for better or for worse, and they have to go
10:43
Speaker 2: out and meet that challenge. At first, they're reluctant because
10:45
Speaker 2: we want to seek the path of least resistance, but
10:48
Speaker 2: eventually not engaging with that thing is more precarious than
10:52
Speaker 2: engaging with it. And then when we go out and
10:54
Speaker 2: we engage with that thing, we produce certain outcomes, and
10:59
Speaker 2: some of those are not expected and some of those
11:02
Speaker 2: are not desirable. So they present in terms of challenges,
11:05
Speaker 2: and we have to overcome those challenges. And we can't
11:08
Speaker 2: overcome all of those challenges alone, so we have to
11:12
Speaker 2: then find allies and people to take this journey with us.
11:17
Speaker 2: And then we have adversaries. They want something that's in
11:20
Speaker 2: conflict with what we want. But you have to keep
11:23
Speaker 2: on the path and stay disciplined and overcome challenge. You
11:26
Speaker 2: have to challenge until you grow into the type of
11:28
Speaker 2: person that can transcend that and then you're a different person.
11:32
Speaker 2: That's from story. So a lot of the societal like
11:36
Speaker 2: principles about how you should be to live an effective life,
11:41
Speaker 2: it comes from fiction. It comes from those archetypes. So
11:46
Speaker 2: those narratives, I think kind of help to shape us
11:50
Speaker 2: and guide us. That's what makes a great character. Can
11:53
Speaker 2: I identify with this person? Now, obviously I'm not an assassin.
11:57
Speaker 2: I would make a horrible decision. I mean, don't give
12:00
Speaker 2: the Turette's guy a gun. You might as well give
12:02
Speaker 2: a chimpanzee like a gun and cocaine and let him loose.
12:06
Speaker 2: It would probably be a better idea than giving the
12:08
Speaker 2: Tourette's guy a gun. But like, there's certain things that
12:13
Speaker 2: you see that make this person effective at well killing people,
12:18
Speaker 2: but at their job. You know, it's it's your job.
12:20
Speaker 2: You don't want you know, you don't want to judge
12:22
Speaker 2: people because of what they do for a living. And
12:24
Speaker 2: you're like, oh, okay, you know I can relate to that.
12:27
Speaker 2: Or there's a little bit something even at like one percent,
12:30
Speaker 2: I can emulate. I did an interview with someone recently.
12:34
Speaker 2: He was he was a senior intelligence officer for the CIA.
12:38
Speaker 2: That was an interesting guy listening to, Like, Okay, when
12:42
Speaker 2: you're a senior intelligence officer and you have people under
12:45
Speaker 2: you that are spies, was it really take to be
12:48
Speaker 2: an effective leader? That was That was a very very
12:51
Speaker 2: interesting conversation.
12:52
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm sure it would have been. I'm sure I
12:55
Speaker 1: would love to check to that guy. But I think
12:57
Speaker 1: also though I could connect. And there are people who
13:00
Speaker 1: do get dealt hard hands, or people who do have
13:04
Speaker 1: challenges arise, and not everyone always takes that challenge like
13:08
Speaker 1: some people capitulate, like some people, you know. And that's
13:12
Speaker 1: the like learning, learning from these stories and these archetypes
13:19
Speaker 1: and you know, all the stoic kind of messaging that
13:22
Speaker 1: we're getting these days, which seems to be super prevalent,
13:25
Speaker 1: which is good because most of it's pretty solid. But
13:28
Speaker 1: at the same stage, there are some people that are
13:30
Speaker 1: going to be Two different people are confronted with the
13:32
Speaker 1: same what appears to be the same challenge. One runs
13:35
Speaker 1: into it and grows and evolves and adapts and becomes
13:37
Speaker 1: fucking amazing, and the other one sits in the corner
13:39
Speaker 1: and has a meltdown. So there's there's still something on
13:43
Speaker 1: an individual level that the person in the middle of that,
13:47
Speaker 1: whatever it is, has got to be able to overcome
13:50
Speaker 1: that nobody can overcome for them. And so while I'm
13:54
Speaker 1: all for allies and support and lavav and all of that,
13:59
Speaker 1: but I actually think for many people, it's what they
14:03
Speaker 1: do when no one's looking, no one's cheering, no one's supporting,
14:07
Speaker 1: no one gives a fuck for me personally. And I'm blessed,
14:12
Speaker 1: I'm lucky. There's no silking here. But most of my
14:15
Speaker 1: breakthroughs and most of my achievements were not because of
14:19
Speaker 1: anyone else. I've had great people, but I've had more
14:23
Speaker 1: resistance than support, especially early days trying to get personal
14:26
Speaker 1: training operationalized in Australia and building all the shit that
14:31
Speaker 1: I did. But for me, it was more I achieved
14:35
Speaker 1: more through the falling down and getting up and the
14:37
Speaker 1: pain and the mess than somebody cheering or clapping me on.
14:41
Speaker 1: That's my story anyway.
14:44
Speaker 2: And I think that's a common story. And in every
14:47
Speaker 2: story and archetype, there's a point where you're confronted with
14:51
Speaker 2: the abyss, where you have to go in that alone,
14:54
Speaker 2: you have to confront the big epic trial and the story.
15:00
Speaker 2: And in order to do that, which is really hard,
15:02
Speaker 2: because something has to die, whether literally, like if you
15:06
Speaker 2: don't if you don't succeed in this challenge, it means
15:10
Speaker 2: your life or maybe it's the person that you used
15:13
Speaker 2: to be, the life used to live. Something has to
15:16
Speaker 2: be sacrificed. But what's on the and your allies can't
15:20
Speaker 2: help you. But what's on the other side of that
15:22
Speaker 2: is meaningful transformation. But I think in my experience it
15:27
Speaker 2: always involves other people. Like the better you do, the
15:29
Speaker 2: more resistant, you're probably coming up with a lot more resistance.
15:34
Speaker 2: I think that's true for most people than assistance for
15:37
Speaker 2: a lot of reasons. But then I think there are
15:41
Speaker 2: times where there's nothing you can do alone. Like I
15:45
Speaker 2: was in a company meeting the other day and my
15:50
Speaker 2: boss started off this exercise where we went around the
15:52
Speaker 2: room and said, Okay, talk about your biggest accomplishments that
15:56
Speaker 2: you brought to fruition this year. That's a really great
16:01
Speaker 2: way to start a meeting because it won. It creates
16:04
Speaker 2: acknowledgment two. It identifies what we the people, the resources, strategies,
16:10
Speaker 2: environments that help you succeed. What was it about you
16:13
Speaker 2: that you can duplicate? There's just I think it sets
16:16
Speaker 2: up a more creative open meeting. But when he got
16:20
Speaker 2: to me and I was kind of, I don't know,
16:22
Speaker 2: I kind of I'm dramatic sometimes with things. I don't
16:25
Speaker 2: know if you've noticed that said what I was being
16:30
Speaker 2: half facetious, but I really meant it, and I wanted
16:32
Speaker 2: to make a point. And I was like, you know,
16:35
Speaker 2: this is a little bit awkward for me because I
16:38
Speaker 2: don't have any wins for twenty twenty four the last year.
16:42
Speaker 2: And the reason why I said that is because we
16:45
Speaker 2: launched a coaching program and it's going really well. But
16:49
Speaker 2: you know, sitting next to me is my operational partner
16:52
Speaker 2: and she's amazing. You love her. She's just she's just
16:57
Speaker 2: mental in all the best ways and brilliant and committed.
17:01
Speaker 2: And I love work when hard. I'm looking over at
17:03
Speaker 2: my coaches there and I'm like, I'm not sitting in
17:06
Speaker 2: those sessions, you know, like day after day with all
17:11
Speaker 2: of these clients. Yeah, I developed the curriculum, Yes, I
17:14
Speaker 2: trained them. We constantly developed, but if it wasn't for
17:18
Speaker 2: their commitment and dedication. I can't see these people by myself,
17:22
Speaker 2: they would be they wouldn't be served. And then I'm
17:25
Speaker 2: looking across the table at my former team and I'm like, yeah,
17:30
Speaker 2: we have created and I wrote the content for it,
17:34
Speaker 2: I organized the information, and I delivered it in the field.
17:37
Speaker 2: We have twenty signature seminars that we deliver. They can
17:42
Speaker 2: all be disassembled and reassembled to meet eighty percent of
17:45
Speaker 2: our requests. So there's customization and expedience there their modular tracts,
17:53
Speaker 2: which so there's continuity. I know they've made a difference
17:57
Speaker 2: with our client base, but it's set up those meetings
18:02
Speaker 2: and operationalized that. I couldn't have done any of that
18:05
Speaker 2: without my three partners that I used to have sitting
18:09
Speaker 2: across the table. And then I'm looking at a series
18:11
Speaker 2: of managers around the table. I'm like, I'd be useless
18:14
Speaker 2: without all of you. So yeah, without those allies, I
18:19
Speaker 2: could have really done anything last year.
18:22
Speaker 1: So yeah, but at the same yeah, I get it.
18:25
Speaker 1: But without the syllabus, the content that you created, there
18:29
Speaker 1: wouldn't have been that to deliver and to operationalize and
18:32
Speaker 1: to share with people.
18:33
Speaker 2: So right, so no one could say it's me it's weak.
18:37
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, but there's still I mean, look, I get it,
18:41
Speaker 1: I get you, but I mean I think I'm for
18:44
Speaker 1: the average punter listening to this. They don't do what
18:46
Speaker 1: you do. They don't do what I do. Right, I'm
18:48
Speaker 1: thinking more, and what you're saying makes sense, But I'm
18:51
Speaker 1: thinking about for the average person who's gone. My life
18:54
Speaker 1: sucks at the moment, my back'sare I'm not making enough though.
18:58
Speaker 1: You know, it's like I struggle to stay motivated. It's like, fuck,
19:04
Speaker 1: my old man's a prick or whatever it is.
19:07
Speaker 2: You know.
19:07
Speaker 1: I just think for the average person that it's it's
19:13
Speaker 1: it's going to be you know, of course, peaks and troughs.
19:15
Speaker 1: It's going to be a grind, it's going to be
19:17
Speaker 1: it's going to be good days and shit days. It's
19:19
Speaker 1: going to be laughter and tears. And I think our.
19:24
Speaker 3: This.
19:25
Speaker 1: I could be wrong on this, but I feel like
19:27
Speaker 1: in twenty twenty five, there are a percentage of people,
19:31
Speaker 1: there is a percentage of people who can't kind of
19:35
Speaker 1: do anything unless there's somebody cheering them on. And I
19:38
Speaker 1: think while we all love being cheered on and we
19:41
Speaker 1: love approval and support me included, right, I love recognition.
19:45
Speaker 1: I'm an only child, I'm insecure. Fucking tell me I'm amazing.
19:48
Speaker 1: But if I can only do the work when someone's
19:51
Speaker 1: doing that, I'm in trouble. And so I think for me,
19:54
Speaker 1: it's really very much about if there's support and love
19:59
Speaker 1: and connect and all of that, great, but not everyone
20:02
Speaker 1: has that. Like a lot of people listening to this
20:04
Speaker 1: do not have what you're talking about. They don't have
20:07
Speaker 1: a team, they don't have people that tell them they're good,
20:10
Speaker 1: they don't have people that cheer them on. So like
20:14
Speaker 1: I'm talking to those people, I'm like, yeah, it's great
20:19
Speaker 1: if it's there, but it's like, motivation's awesome, but you
20:22
Speaker 1: don't need to be motivated to do something like you
20:25
Speaker 1: don't need to be in that state. And I think too,
20:29
Speaker 1: you know, for the average punter who is just trying
20:34
Speaker 1: to i don't know, improve their life a bit, or
20:37
Speaker 1: their health a bit, or the bank balance a bit,
20:39
Speaker 1: or their relationships a bit, or to be a little
20:41
Speaker 1: bit less unreliable and a bit more reliable and a
20:46
Speaker 1: bit more consistent. And you know, these are the things
20:50
Speaker 1: where I reckon. It's in those moments of self awareness
20:53
Speaker 1: and self reflection and a little bit of self control
20:57
Speaker 1: where you can start to take ownership of your own story.
21:01
Speaker 1: And that's not to the exclusion of other people in
21:04
Speaker 1: your story, and it's not to the exclusion of you
21:08
Speaker 1: helping others and serving others. But yeah, I just think
21:12
Speaker 1: that that's important.
21:13
Speaker 3: That that we we realize that ultimately, like despite all
21:19
Speaker 3: the resources and people and friends and teammates and colleagues
21:24
Speaker 3: and all of that, which are great if they're there,
21:27
Speaker 3: but ultimately, you've got to rely on you because the
21:30
Speaker 3: only constant in your life, the only constant person in
21:34
Speaker 3: your life from birth to death, is you.
21:37
Speaker 1: And the only person that's always with you is you,
21:40
Speaker 1: you know. And it's so much about that. And I'm like,
21:43
Speaker 1: you like, when you and I work together and we've
21:45
Speaker 1: done it a bit, I love it, and I love
21:46
Speaker 1: working with you, and hopefully that's reciprocal. But there are
21:50
Speaker 1: times when you're like, all right, well, if I'm not
21:54
Speaker 1: doing this, no, it's not going to get done, you know.
21:57
Speaker 2: And I think those are so many airpoints. Yeah, but
22:02
Speaker 2: you know, I think there's I think there's a nuance
22:05
Speaker 2: here where I mean, with anything I'm pulling this from
22:10
Speaker 2: the meeting as well. Another question I was asked is
22:13
Speaker 2: what was what is one skill that you do not
22:16
Speaker 2: currently possess that you would really want to develop. And
22:20
Speaker 2: for some weird reason, so many people on the team
22:24
Speaker 2: wanted to do things around construction, like I, you know,
22:28
Speaker 2: I want to do like corpentry, I want to make stuff.
22:31
Speaker 2: I want to design things, electric work. It's like, okay, wow,
22:35
Speaker 2: we could be a bunch of builders. And the point
22:38
Speaker 2: there is if you don't show up for your bit,
22:42
Speaker 2: you're not going to attract allies. You're probably not going
22:45
Speaker 2: to attract a lot of adversaries either, which is the
22:48
Speaker 2: other side of that, Like if you don't have adversaries,
22:51
Speaker 2: if you're not getting criticism, because this is something that
22:54
Speaker 2: I have struggled with a lot, and it's like, it's
22:58
Speaker 2: not I don't think it's your job to go out
23:01
Speaker 2: there and purposely so division. There's there's already enough of
23:06
Speaker 2: that in the world. That position has been filled. You
23:08
Speaker 2: don't need to do that. But if you're not encountering
23:11
Speaker 2: resistance and criticism from people, you're probably not doing anything
23:16
Speaker 2: really impactful. Because people have their own reasons and conflicting interests,
23:21
Speaker 2: and I think that's one of the markers you're gonna
23:23
Speaker 2: show up for your job. Otherwise you're not gonna You're
23:26
Speaker 2: not gonna have anybody willing to work with you. So absolutely,
23:30
Speaker 2: I believe in the power of teams, but I also
23:34
Speaker 2: believe in the power of individual effort and contribution and excellence.
23:41
Speaker 1: Well, most of us are going to be by ourselves
23:43
Speaker 1: more than we're going to be around a team or
23:46
Speaker 1: a group, like over the context of our life.
23:49
Speaker 2: And I mean, in my case, that's not a choice.
23:51
Speaker 2: I get it.
23:53
Speaker 1: I've got a lot of issues. But but yeah, I
23:57
Speaker 1: mean I've said this too many times on the show.
23:59
Speaker 1: But one of my lecturers or one of my in fact,
24:02
Speaker 1: one of my professor's first time around at the university,
24:04
Speaker 1: he said to me, he said this to harper if
24:07
Speaker 1: if What did he say? Basically, he said, if you
24:10
Speaker 1: don't want to piss anyone off, then say nothing, do nothing,
24:13
Speaker 1: be nothing, and stand for nothing, you know. And I'm like,
24:17
Speaker 1: it's so true, Like I'd never heard that, and I went, oh, yeah,
24:21
Speaker 1: that's you know, that the moment that you stand something,
24:25
Speaker 1: the moment that you have an opinion, and it's okay,
24:27
Speaker 1: people don't need to agree. A lot of people disagree
24:30
Speaker 1: with me. I'm fine with that. A lot of people
24:31
Speaker 1: have diametrically opposed ideas, and over time, I've changed my
24:35
Speaker 1: ideas over time. I mean, I think this is the
24:38
Speaker 1: other bit to this, too, mate, is our willingness to go.
24:42
Speaker 1: I used to think this, but I don't think that
24:44
Speaker 1: anymore because I changed my mind. And these are the
24:47
Speaker 1: reasons I changed my mind. Is because I met this person,
24:50
Speaker 1: or I had this experience, or I had this conversation,
24:54
Speaker 1: or I did this thing, and then I had this
24:56
Speaker 1: fucking epiphany about you know whatever, like just that even
25:02
Speaker 1: down to and it sounds contradictory because I own a
25:05
Speaker 1: business and you own a business and you work in
25:07
Speaker 1: an organization as well, But like sometimes I just go
25:13
Speaker 1: what matters, just that, just that, what matters. And I
25:17
Speaker 1: sit with people. I sat with somebody earlier this week,
25:20
Speaker 1: and I said, in the middle of all of these
25:22
Speaker 1: variables and moving parts in your life and your relationships
25:25
Speaker 1: and your health and your body and your business and
25:27
Speaker 1: your money, and I go, what matters, like what's like?
25:30
Speaker 1: What matters? And they go about what? I go, you
25:32
Speaker 1: just tell me what matters? Because I don't know. I
25:37
Speaker 1: put up my hand and I think I've wasted so
25:40
Speaker 1: much time, effort and energy on things that in that
25:44
Speaker 1: really for me anyway, I look back, I go, that
25:46
Speaker 1: was such a bad investment. It's like that shit does
25:50
Speaker 1: really it really doesn't matter, you know. And I mean
25:53
Speaker 1: it's easy to be philosophical when people that you love
25:56
Speaker 1: get sick or die and all of that. We have
25:58
Speaker 1: our moment of reflection and we get back onto the
26:01
Speaker 1: treadmill of life. But yeah, I just think going, does
26:04
Speaker 1: it matter? Does this matter? Does it matter that I
26:08
Speaker 1: do this? Does it matter that they liked that? Does
26:10
Speaker 1: it matter that I think A and you think B?
26:12
Speaker 1: Or is it just all okay? Like do we all
26:15
Speaker 1: need to agree? And also do we all need to
26:18
Speaker 1: fucking hate each other? You know? For sure?
26:21
Speaker 3: Not.
26:22
Speaker 2: There's there's this show that I was watching with my
26:26
Speaker 2: wife and it's called Dying for Sacks.
26:31
Speaker 1: Can you just say Amy? You don't have to say
26:34
Speaker 1: my wife all the time. You can just say Amy.
26:38
Speaker 2: Well Amy, But not anybody knows who Amy is. If
26:41
Speaker 2: I make Amy, he's watching because you're always my wife,
26:45
Speaker 2: you understand the relief because you understand Amy's relationship. I
26:49
Speaker 2: mean not everybody's going to understand that, Like Amy is
26:51
Speaker 2: my wife. So that's why I preface my wife.
26:54
Speaker 1: All right, let's let's let's asterisk this moment on the
26:58
Speaker 1: you project from here moving forward, everyone, When Bobby says,
27:01
Speaker 1: I'm he's talking about his wife. But then of course
27:03
Speaker 1: there'll be new people. So maybe my wife.
27:06
Speaker 2: My wife, Amy, We we are, we are a creative
27:11
Speaker 2: forced to be reckoned with.
27:14
Speaker 1: All right, going your wife, I me go on.
27:17
Speaker 2: So and there's this show Dying for Sex and it's
27:21
Speaker 2: about it's about this woman and it's not all about sex,
27:25
Speaker 2: which was very disappointing, titles completely misleading. And she's in
27:29
Speaker 2: remission from cancer. Cancer comes back and it's her only
27:34
Speaker 2: in like, she just has this feeling this is a
27:37
Speaker 2: little bit different than the first time coming out of remission.
27:41
Speaker 2: This this might be it and you know, I don't.
27:44
Speaker 2: Oh god, there's a lot of spoilers in this. But
27:47
Speaker 2: she she has no choice but to confront the brutal
27:52
Speaker 2: reality of her life and the things that she's avoiding
27:55
Speaker 2: and what really matters to her, and the whole thing
27:58
Speaker 2: with sex. Has has a backstory about something horrible happened
28:03
Speaker 2: to her when she was she was a kid, a child,
28:08
Speaker 2: and it was her mom's boyfriend and you know, you
28:10
Speaker 2: could fill you could fill in the gaps of what
28:13
Speaker 2: happened there, and she it had affected her in her relationships,
28:19
Speaker 2: her romantic, really intimate relationships, and she's find like, I
28:23
Speaker 2: have to I have to explore this, I have to
28:27
Speaker 2: figure this out because I don't have a lot of time.
28:30
Speaker 2: And you know, throughout the throughout the whole the whole show,
28:34
Speaker 2: there's these beautiful moments where her friend is everyone looks
28:39
Speaker 2: at her as a screw up because she's this free spirit.
28:42
Speaker 2: You know, it's like the person that you know just
28:44
Speaker 2: got like everything fallen out of a purse when she
28:46
Speaker 2: walks into a room and maybe not really focused. But
28:49
Speaker 2: it turns out that this person is a beautiful, loyal, compassionate,
28:55
Speaker 2: strong person who is the rock for her friend as
28:59
Speaker 2: she's and she's walking down that aisle towards the inevitable
29:04
Speaker 2: with someone she loves more than anyone else in the world.
29:06
Speaker 2: And then the relationship between her mom and her and
29:10
Speaker 2: how strained it is, and when she's in hospice, they're
29:13
Speaker 2: just holding each other crying because that shit doesn't matter
29:18
Speaker 2: in the last few days of your life. It's like, God, like,
29:20
Speaker 2: why does it take this to get us to that.
29:25
Speaker 1: You know, Yeah, I'm with you. I've thought about that
29:29
Speaker 1: a lot, especially the last couple of years. You know.
29:33
Speaker 1: I had a friend of mine, a really good friend,
29:34
Speaker 1: die about six months ago. I had another my second
29:37
Speaker 1: mom died a few months ago, and you know, and
29:40
Speaker 1: the crab died at the gym six years ago and
29:42
Speaker 1: then didn't die. And like just those moments in time
29:46
Speaker 1: where and everybody experiences what I'm experiencing. So there's no
29:50
Speaker 1: self pity here, and there's but it just I think
29:54
Speaker 1: because in a way, the busyness of life, or the
29:59
Speaker 1: boxes we've got to tick, the things we've got to do,
30:01
Speaker 1: the money we've got to make, the conversations we've got
30:04
Speaker 1: to have, the car rides we've got to you know,
30:06
Speaker 1: that just hijacks your your attention. And it's understandable because
30:11
Speaker 1: they are a thing that on a practical, real world
30:14
Speaker 1: day to day they need our energy and our focus
30:18
Speaker 1: and our attention. And so but that doesn't mean that
30:23
Speaker 1: underneath all that that other things aren't more important in
30:28
Speaker 1: the context of life. But I do think our our
30:32
Speaker 1: mind and our attention does get hijacked. But I think also,
30:38
Speaker 1: like I have this little process that I do every morning,
30:41
Speaker 1: which I share with people too, mate, and it's a
30:44
Speaker 1: version of I sit at the cafe that you and
30:47
Speaker 1: I have had breakfast at many times, and I ask
30:52
Speaker 1: myself in terms of what I want to do be
30:54
Speaker 1: create today, in other words, in terms of the things
30:57
Speaker 1: that I want to do and get done, what's the
30:59
Speaker 1: best use of me today, Like what's the best use
31:03
Speaker 1: of my time and energy based on what I want
31:06
Speaker 1: to achieve? And that that sets me up, you know,
31:09
Speaker 1: not for a perfect day, but a more conscious day
31:13
Speaker 1: than an unconscious, reactive day, a more focused, conscious, proactive
31:18
Speaker 1: day where when I do that properly, which is not always,
31:22
Speaker 1: but when I do that properly, I tend to be
31:24
Speaker 1: more productive. But yes, it is that. I think the
31:31
Speaker 1: answer to your question is, like, why do we wait
31:33
Speaker 1: for the last whatever? I just think that because it's
31:37
Speaker 1: not in our face, and it's not you know, and
31:39
Speaker 1: it's so easy to just go down a rabbit hole
31:43
Speaker 1: of you know, nothing in particular. And I don't think
31:48
Speaker 1: that's bad, by the way, I just think that's human.
31:51
Speaker 1: I don't think we need to hate ourselves for this,
31:54
Speaker 1: you know. And even if it was a flaw like
31:58
Speaker 1: hating yourself doesn't fix it.
32:00
Speaker 2: Sorry, that's that's actually that's the worst path forward. So
32:06
Speaker 2: Barbara Frederickson, she's brilliant. I love her work. I love
32:10
Speaker 2: her research. You know, a lot of times when we
32:12
Speaker 2: think about self compassion, we think about that is being
32:19
Speaker 2: soft or overly permissive with ourselves. But that's not the case.
32:24
Speaker 2: Like self compassion is grit, it's rigor. And it's just
32:31
Speaker 2: people who are compassionate with themselves and their evaluation of
32:37
Speaker 2: what they've done and why are far more likely to
32:42
Speaker 2: do the work, especially when it gets hard around changing.
32:48
Speaker 2: It's people that don't engage in that. It's people that
32:52
Speaker 2: have this shame based identity about what I've done versus
32:56
Speaker 2: what I should have done, and fucking hell, I'm the one,
32:59
Speaker 2: to the point to finger here that gets stuck in
33:03
Speaker 2: that identity loop. It's it's almost like facing the shadow
33:07
Speaker 2: aspects of your personality and understanding that and say, okay,
33:12
Speaker 2: well I accept and I embrace this, But who do
33:16
Speaker 2: I really want to be?
33:17
Speaker 3: Now?
33:18
Speaker 2: Now? What you know? What I mean?
33:20
Speaker 1: What is that? So two questions? My first question is
33:25
Speaker 1: if you can remember those two first question is all right,
33:28
Speaker 1: let's just go with one. Then the other, what does
33:31
Speaker 1: self compassion look like? Practically? Give us an example, because
33:35
Speaker 1: I'm I love the idea, I don't know exactly what
33:38
Speaker 1: it looks like.
33:40
Speaker 2: Okay, so self compassion like today today at a meeting, right,
33:48
Speaker 2: I hope that. I hope nobody's at this meeting was
33:51
Speaker 2: listening to this. It's kind of a workshop, and I
33:53
Speaker 2: meet with I meet with this, this, this group at
33:56
Speaker 2: a school site once a month, and I really like
34:00
Speaker 2: these people for a lot of reasons. And it was
34:02
Speaker 2: someone's birthday and they brought in obviously like cakes and candies,
34:08
Speaker 2: and I was feeling a little bit off today, so
34:10
Speaker 2: I was like, I definitely don't want to eat that.
34:12
Speaker 2: And then I was like, okay, I'm hoping this is
34:15
Speaker 2: a good example. I was like, I don't want to
34:17
Speaker 2: be like rude. It's someone's birthday. It's like, oh yeah,
34:20
Speaker 2: I would love it. I would I would love one.
34:23
Speaker 2: I ate one. And then I was feeling really sick,
34:26
Speaker 2: not just sick to my stomach. I was like feeling
34:28
Speaker 2: dizzy like and confused, like like you know when you're
34:31
Speaker 2: just like taking way too much sugar, and you know
34:35
Speaker 2: I have had a propensity in the past. Fucking hell,
34:38
Speaker 2: the fuck. You're such a people pleaser. God, you couldn't
34:42
Speaker 2: just say no and have a little bit of discipline
34:44
Speaker 2: and self respect. Fuck you always do this? God the fuck?
34:49
Speaker 2: What's wrong with you? It's like that is a great
34:53
Speaker 2: way to repeat these patterns constantly versus Yeah, you know
35:00
Speaker 2: that probably didn't make me feel as good as I
35:02
Speaker 2: want to feel. But you were basically considering someone else's
35:06
Speaker 2: feelings and celebrating the birthday of a participant that you value.
35:12
Speaker 2: You know, I think if you looked at anybody else
35:16
Speaker 2: doing that behavior, you'd have no negative opinion. You know,
35:19
Speaker 2: next time, you might want to consider doing this a
35:22
Speaker 2: little bit differently given the outcome you're experiencing. That is
35:28
Speaker 2: self compassion, That is, like I am, I'm not an
35:32
Speaker 2: undisciplined person, you know what. That was actually fairly empathetic
35:35
Speaker 2: of you. Didn't you know, didn't really do this, or
35:39
Speaker 2: maybe you said something at some point to somebody that
35:42
Speaker 2: in a way that you shouldn't have said it. It's
35:44
Speaker 2: not your identity, it was how you behaved in the moment.
35:49
Speaker 2: Does that make sense?
35:50
Speaker 3: Yeah?
35:51
Speaker 1: I does. My only question your honor is in that scenario.
35:57
Speaker 1: Either way, you're eating the cake you're eating the cake
36:00
Speaker 1: and feeling guilty and like a piece of shit, or
36:03
Speaker 1: you're eating the cake with a bit of self awareness
36:06
Speaker 1: and self compassion. Cool. What about the third scenario where
36:11
Speaker 1: you go, hey, thank you.
36:13
Speaker 2: But no, but that doesn't that doesn't do you any
36:18
Speaker 2: good after you've already eaten the key. Yeah, yeah, okay,
36:22
Speaker 2: all right, if you're about to eat the cake.
36:25
Speaker 1: Well when you fucking do that because you didn't want
36:29
Speaker 1: the cake, you say you doesn't want the cake.
36:32
Speaker 2: Because in that moment, other things came up for me
36:37
Speaker 2: which caused me to reach out and eat it. One.
36:40
Speaker 2: It wasn't grand theft auto. It wasn't like, oh it's
36:43
Speaker 2: my birthday and I really like to carjack people this
36:46
Speaker 2: time of year. All right, let's go do that. Okay.
36:49
Speaker 2: That's an epic fail on a lot of different levels.
36:53
Speaker 2: It was cake. Do I eat cake all the time?
36:55
Speaker 1: No?
36:56
Speaker 2: And it's it's probably not discipline. I just really cannot.
37:00
Speaker 2: I don't like cake very much, and when I eat it,
37:03
Speaker 2: I pay for it, so it happens very rarely. But
37:06
Speaker 2: the point is I eat the cake. Now, I could
37:08
Speaker 2: tell myself, oh, you should have just said no, no shit.
37:12
Speaker 2: I could have said yes, no, whatever, how I communicate
37:16
Speaker 2: myself dictates the probability.
37:18
Speaker 1: Of doing that again. You know, yeah, gotcha, Okay, that
37:22
Speaker 1: makes sense, but next time, done it the cake, but
37:25
Speaker 1: also don't cake. Tell me about the relationship between self compassion,
37:32
Speaker 1: question without notice, self compassion, self awareness, and self loathing.
37:38
Speaker 1: How they kind of like the interplay. I feel like, yeah,
37:44
Speaker 1: I feel a few things, but you tell me so
37:47
Speaker 1: self awareness, self compassion, self loathing. What's the kind of
37:51
Speaker 1: the interplay between those kinds of I guess state.
37:57
Speaker 2: Well, I think defining them first, because the interplay is
37:59
Speaker 2: a little bit a little bit harder. You know. Self
38:02
Speaker 2: awareness is the ability to kind of like step back
38:07
Speaker 2: and observe in the moment how you are engaging with
38:14
Speaker 2: the world around you people around you, mostly the impact
38:19
Speaker 2: that that's having, and being able to self regulate behaviorally
38:25
Speaker 2: regulate in the moment in order to in order to
38:30
Speaker 2: adapt to like what information is coming up for you.
38:34
Speaker 2: So ah, man like, like, if we're we're going through
38:39
Speaker 2: some interviewing processes right now, and you know, me and
38:43
Speaker 2: my team we get on so well, and I have
38:45
Speaker 2: one person on my team where the thing that concerns
38:50
Speaker 2: me is I always find myself agreeing with this person
38:53
Speaker 2: and vice versa. But there's another person on the team
38:56
Speaker 2: we disagree on not on mission, but almost everything else.
39:01
Speaker 2: And I love that now we're we're really tight. Like
39:04
Speaker 2: if he was like, you know what that idea you
39:07
Speaker 2: just presented, You're a fucking idiot, I would laugh and go, Okay,
39:11
Speaker 2: tell me more about that. But let's say, you know,
39:14
Speaker 2: you look at somebody like, well, that's not gonna work, Jane.
39:18
Speaker 2: You know we've already tried that, and if you would have,
39:21
Speaker 2: if I'm not aware of how I'm coming off, i
39:24
Speaker 2: can't adjust my approach. And I'm not gonna get any
39:27
Speaker 2: further with Jane, and I'm probably gonna I'm probably gonna
39:30
Speaker 2: hurt Jane, not accomplish what I'm seeking to accomplish. And
39:34
Speaker 2: there's there's basically no constructive reason to do that. And
39:38
Speaker 2: you're a bit of a cock on top of it,
39:40
Speaker 2: where if I could go, you know what, I'm a
39:43
Speaker 2: little bit heated right now, and based on my emotional
39:46
Speaker 2: intensity and state and how and how I'm delivering this,
39:51
Speaker 2: I could hear this in my cadence. Let me step
39:54
Speaker 2: back and ask Jane a question or try to try
39:58
Speaker 2: to ask try to point out what Jane's concern might
40:02
Speaker 2: be that's driving her perspective and ask her a question
40:05
Speaker 2: that opens up the door for a different discussion. We
40:08
Speaker 2: can have the same conversation, but self awareness is going
40:11
Speaker 2: to make that conversation a lot more impactful. I think
40:14
Speaker 2: self loathing comes from shame. It comes from a which
40:21
Speaker 2: is different than guilt. Guilt is where you feel bad
40:24
Speaker 2: about something that you've done, like cake related offenses, for example,
40:31
Speaker 2: where shame is feel good. I'm using that as an example.
40:37
Speaker 2: I don't think people should feel guilty about or you
40:40
Speaker 2: do something that hurts somebody's feelings and it's like, that's
40:45
Speaker 2: not the person I want to be. Guilt is really
40:47
Speaker 2: good because you can look back and go, that is
40:50
Speaker 2: not acceptable behavior and that's not who you want to be.
40:54
Speaker 2: Where shame becomes destructive is it's not about the behavior,
40:58
Speaker 2: it's about the person.
40:59
Speaker 1: It's about me.
41:00
Speaker 2: This is who I am, and I hate that aspect
41:04
Speaker 2: of me that's going to come out in really ugly ways,
41:07
Speaker 2: either perpetuating that pattern or creating strong suits that are
41:15
Speaker 2: not really constructive or even narcissistic traits. To kind of
41:20
Speaker 2: deal with that, with that self loathing. Yeah, so, and
41:24
Speaker 2: what was the other one you were talking about?
41:27
Speaker 1: What you were talking about so self awareness, self loathing,
41:30
Speaker 1: self compassion. But what is interesting? As you were talking
41:33
Speaker 1: about this, I was thinking, if only we knew someone
41:36
Speaker 1: who's doing a PhD in metaperception is understanding that you experience.
41:42
Speaker 2: But yeah, that's that guy would have great insights.
41:45
Speaker 1: Yeah, well I don't know. I reckon, I reckon, you
41:47
Speaker 1: got me covered half the time, more than half the time.
41:50
Speaker 1: But yeah, that that that is part of that. I
41:53
Speaker 1: talk about that affair bit in you know, in business
41:56
Speaker 1: with leaders and with teams and staff, is just just
42:00
Speaker 1: even that simple question where people can respond somewhere on
42:04
Speaker 1: the scale between fascination and curiosity and anger and defensiveness
42:09
Speaker 1: when you say, what do you think it's like being
42:12
Speaker 1: around you? And they're like some people are like, oh fuck,
42:17
Speaker 1: that's such a good question, and other people are like
42:21
Speaker 1: what are you saying? Like your how? How? I'm literally
42:27
Speaker 1: just asking you what you think that you experience is
42:33
Speaker 1: like for the rest of your workmates or your team
42:36
Speaker 1: or your colleague.
42:37
Speaker 2: I go, I'm interested in such a great question.
42:41
Speaker 1: It's like, just let's not be defensive. Let's not be
42:44
Speaker 1: positive negative. Let's be curious, like, what do you think
42:47
Speaker 1: that you experience is like? Because I think that's a
42:50
Speaker 1: question worth asking and a curiosity worth having and some
42:55
Speaker 1: knowledge worth gaining, some insight worth gaining, because you know,
43:01
Speaker 1: whatever you think of you isn't more than likely, isn't
43:05
Speaker 1: what they think of you? And also how you think
43:09
Speaker 1: they see you statistically is very unlikely how they actually
43:13
Speaker 1: see you now without feeling judged or evaluated. The more
43:19
Speaker 1: insight you have into how other people see you, the
43:23
Speaker 1: more accurate insight, the better for you, because now you
43:27
Speaker 1: can create a level of connection and a poor and
43:30
Speaker 1: trust and interaction that you couldn't without that knowledge, right,
43:34
Speaker 1: because you are operating on an erroneo assumption, which is
43:37
Speaker 1: called the false consensus effect, that they think like you
43:42
Speaker 1: and they don't, so rather than assuming how they think
43:46
Speaker 1: or or guessing like lean in you know, and that's
43:52
Speaker 1: I'm sure it happens with you. But every time, nearly
43:55
Speaker 1: every time I do a corporate gig, I get feedback
43:58
Speaker 1: and I get sometimes they say me, all the evaluations,
44:01
Speaker 1: it might be one hundred and fifty evaluations that I
44:04
Speaker 1: can access online, and I never read one hundred and fifty,
44:08
Speaker 1: but I'll often read twenty or thirty or forty. I'm like, oh,
44:11
Speaker 1: some of this is really good. Some of this is
44:13
Speaker 1: like a little bit emotionally oh olch. But nonetheless, if
44:17
Speaker 1: people think something, I actually want to know, because even
44:24
Speaker 1: though we like to tell ourselves, oh, I don't give
44:26
Speaker 1: a fuck what people think of me, Well, if you
44:29
Speaker 1: don't care how people see you or what they think
44:32
Speaker 1: of you, you're an idiot because it actually matters in
44:34
Speaker 1: the real world. That's not to be obsessed with. Do
44:38
Speaker 1: they like me? We're not talking about being insecure, We're
44:41
Speaker 1: talking about literally what you're talking about awareness and being informed.
44:47
Speaker 2: Yeah, does people's opinion of me inform me or define me?
44:52
Speaker 2: Those are two totally different things. Perfect explanation, and you
44:57
Speaker 2: can get absorbed in that. When I first started speaking,
45:00
Speaker 2: I would go through evals like like like it was
45:05
Speaker 2: Crystal Math, not like I haven't offenditedy for Crystal Math.
45:08
Speaker 2: I don't, but like someone who has an offended if
45:11
Speaker 2: for Crystal Math will go after cross that. I went
45:13
Speaker 2: after it like an addict, and I.
45:15
Speaker 1: Would work analogy of all time. Can you come up
45:18
Speaker 1: with another one that doesn't involve a legal drugs place.
45:21
Speaker 2: Yeah, I was, I was. I was like a dog
45:23
Speaker 2: on a bone.
45:24
Speaker 1: Okay, here you go, here you go, or like me
45:29
Speaker 1: in a cake shop? Yeah, may at the talk shop?
45:35
Speaker 1: Do they have talk shops? So what do you call
45:37
Speaker 1: a you call them a canteen or a chaos? What
45:39
Speaker 1: do you call them in the states that that at school? Oh?
45:44
Speaker 2: Can it would be a canteen? Or just right, cafeteria?
45:51
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, cafeteria. It's funny.
45:52
Speaker 2: Canteen is basically the worst.
45:54
Speaker 1: Anyway, I digressing touch shop? There you go. What's the
45:57
Speaker 1: etymology of tuk shop? Yeah?
46:00
Speaker 2: But Gelling, so I would, I would look through everything,
46:03
Speaker 2: and mostly I would look for the worst comments.
46:07
Speaker 1: Yes, and I would.
46:08
Speaker 2: I would just get so hung up on that. And again,
46:12
Speaker 2: you know, there's a couple of ways that I look
46:14
Speaker 2: at evaluations.
46:16
Speaker 1: Now.
46:16
Speaker 2: One if I don't if I don't get enough criticism,
46:20
Speaker 2: if there's not a few, And I don't want to
46:22
Speaker 2: get a ton of criticism because you're there to serve people.
46:24
Speaker 2: But if you get one hundred evals back and five
46:27
Speaker 2: people do not like what you had to say, you
46:30
Speaker 2: really didn't say much at all. Going back to your
46:32
Speaker 2: point about what your teacher told you in school. So
46:35
Speaker 2: five to ten percent, that's fine. But I would get
46:40
Speaker 2: even if ninety percent came back and said, I love
46:43
Speaker 2: this presentation, was amazing, and five percent was like, oh
46:46
Speaker 2: this was good, it was all right. If five percent
46:49
Speaker 2: of the room is like I couldnot stand this guy,
46:52
Speaker 2: which happens, I would just ruminate over those. But from me,
47:00
Speaker 2: it's like, if I get to like twenty percent of
47:03
Speaker 2: people saying the same thing and not not I didn't
47:06
Speaker 2: like him. I've had people say it like he talks
47:09
Speaker 2: too fast, he doesn't speak fast enough, too many stories,
47:12
Speaker 2: not enough stories. You know, he's got Tourette's. It's visibly distracted,
47:17
Speaker 2: you know. It's it's like this guy's so short. I
47:20
Speaker 2: can't even see him behind the podium. Where is he
47:22
Speaker 2: It's like, is there anybody up there at all? You know,
47:24
Speaker 2: so you get only just up. Yeah, I'm kind of
47:27
Speaker 2: making he embellishes, So all of this criticism, I can't
47:32
Speaker 2: do anything with that. But if it's like, well, I
47:35
Speaker 2: don't like the way he answers questions, because I feel
47:40
Speaker 2: my first question is who else is saying that? Right?
47:43
Speaker 2: If it gets to about twenty percent, I need to
47:45
Speaker 2: make a change because I'm having a negative impact on
47:49
Speaker 2: people if it's kind of like ten percent, Because you
47:52
Speaker 2: got to ask, where have I heard this before? Is
47:55
Speaker 2: this a patent? You know, if somebody says, well, you
47:57
Speaker 2: know what, I think you're rude. If a lot of
48:00
Speaker 2: people tell you that, often, I guess what you're probably like.
48:04
Speaker 2: You know, if a fight breaks out in every pub
48:06
Speaker 2: you go to, you'll have the problem most likely. But
48:13
Speaker 2: you've got a weigh that. Because I with the CIA guy,
48:17
Speaker 2: this was interesting if I could sum up what he
48:21
Speaker 2: said was the most important skill for leadership and in
48:25
Speaker 2: the CIA with stakes are really high emotional intelligence. Yeah,
48:31
Speaker 2: if I don't understand how I'm affecting you, and I
48:35
Speaker 2: don't understand anything about how you're communicating and your experience,
48:40
Speaker 2: and I can't adjust to that, there are a lot
48:43
Speaker 2: of consequences. I mean, I guess, if you're a spy,
48:47
Speaker 2: the consequences are death. I guess if you're working in
48:52
Speaker 2: a certain field, the consequences are career death. Eventually, it's
48:57
Speaker 2: going to be slower and painful, not as painful, fair enough,
49:01
Speaker 2: But you have to navigate through self and other awareness.
49:08
Speaker 1: I did a gig for a friend. It was last
49:10
Speaker 1: year so I don't know, eight months ago and it
49:14
Speaker 1: was a free to a friend of mine who owns
49:15
Speaker 1: a gym, and they anyway, it doesn't matter where or
49:22
Speaker 1: how are why but anyway, I said, sure, I'll come
49:26
Speaker 1: and talk to your members. And I went down and
49:29
Speaker 1: they cleared out the Group X room. So there was
49:32
Speaker 1: quite a few people, not millions, but I don't know
49:34
Speaker 1: eighty people one hundred people in this room sitting on
49:38
Speaker 1: fitballs and whatever, sitting on their ass on the ground.
49:42
Speaker 1: And I'm there and I'm doing it for nothing because
49:43
Speaker 1: I'm trying to be a good human and I'm just
49:46
Speaker 1: off and running and I'm doing my thing and creating
49:48
Speaker 1: a bit of fun and engagement. People are laughing and
49:51
Speaker 1: asking a few questions. Anyway, there's this one dude about
49:55
Speaker 1: twenty feet away from me, and he's just looking at
49:57
Speaker 1: me like you are a piece of shit. Right. Nearly
50:03
Speaker 1: everyone else in the room's nodding, engaging, smiling, and he
50:08
Speaker 1: was just giving me daggers. And I'm like, why the
50:10
Speaker 1: fuck would you come? I'm thinking to myself, like and
50:13
Speaker 1: I was one hundred percent certain he didn't like me,
50:18
Speaker 1: and he didn't like what was going on. Almost to
50:21
Speaker 1: the point where I wanted to go, Are you okay, Champ, like,
50:25
Speaker 1: is there something anyway? Obviously I didn't, but I will
50:30
Speaker 1: say it. It didn't derail what I was doing, but
50:34
Speaker 1: it certainly distracted me. Right anyway, I got through, and
50:39
Speaker 1: you know, they seem to enjoy it. It seemed to land.
50:43
Speaker 1: It wasn't my best, it wasn't my worst. Anyway, After
50:47
Speaker 1: the thing, people are coming up, asking questions and saying
50:50
Speaker 1: nice things and whatever. And anyway, I see this guy
50:54
Speaker 1: making his way towards me, and I'm like, oh fuck,
50:57
Speaker 1: here we go, here we go. I'm like, all right,
51:01
Speaker 1: batten down the hatches. And he holds out his hand
51:04
Speaker 1: to shake my hand and misses my hand and then
51:08
Speaker 1: tries to locate my hand and his vision impaired. He
51:13
Speaker 1: fucking loved me and loved it, and he goes, that
51:17
Speaker 1: was brilliant. That was brilliant. So I am completely misreading something.
51:26
Speaker 1: I had made all of these stories, I had drawn
51:29
Speaker 1: all of these conclusions. I was creating stress for myself.
51:34
Speaker 1: I was getting myself anxious and angry. I almost fucking
51:39
Speaker 1: stopped myself to I almost like there was actually no problem.
51:45
Speaker 1: Not only was there no problem, he loved it. He
51:49
Speaker 1: loved it, and he wanted to know where he could
51:51
Speaker 1: hear more of me and all this kind of stuff.
51:53
Speaker 1: And I just drove home and I'm like, how funny.
51:56
Speaker 2: Is that is?
51:57
Speaker 1: Like I looked at something, I didn't know what I
52:01
Speaker 1: was looking at, I didn't understand what I was looking at,
52:05
Speaker 1: and I drew a conclusion and I created a problem
52:08
Speaker 1: out of nothing.
52:10
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think we do that often. I kind of
52:13
Speaker 2: thought the story was going there, because I think anybody
52:16
Speaker 2: who's ever been in front of a room has had
52:17
Speaker 2: an experience like that with an individual or a room.
52:21
Speaker 2: Maybe you're in a certain part of the country or
52:23
Speaker 2: you're a certain part of the world where people are
52:28
Speaker 2: not outwardly expressive and they're just sitting there, Like there
52:32
Speaker 2: are some countries in the world and you've spoken in them,
52:35
Speaker 2: Where don't you dare ask the audience a question because.
52:38
Speaker 1: They're just going to look at you.
52:40
Speaker 2: No one is going to respond to you, and you're
52:43
Speaker 2: making all these assumptions and it's impacting how you're delivering, right,
52:48
Speaker 2: And then it turns out they loved you. And the
52:51
Speaker 2: opposite happens as well, where people are like laughing and
52:54
Speaker 2: oh this audience is amazing, and you get the emails
52:57
Speaker 2: back it's like, oh, okay, that was not as impactful
53:01
Speaker 2: as as it felt like it was. And we're making
53:04
Speaker 2: all these assumptions based on stories. Well, what do you
53:07
Speaker 2: think is a good litmus test? Like in the moment, yeah,
53:13
Speaker 2: to can't say, okay, how much of this is real?
53:16
Speaker 1: I did it. I did a gig last week. I'll
53:18
Speaker 1: cut it really short. But it was a bunch of
53:20
Speaker 1: people who don't normally do things like this. It was
53:22
Speaker 1: a bunch of tradees. Do you use that word in
53:25
Speaker 1: the States? Tradees now? So trades people?
53:31
Speaker 2: Oh right, okay, yeah.
53:32
Speaker 1: So all dudes, all dudes who work as tradesmen, right,
53:36
Speaker 1: and so this company had never done any professional development
53:41
Speaker 1: and anyway, I'm for me. I before I went in,
53:46
Speaker 1: the husband and wife around the company, who by the way,
53:48
Speaker 1: were great. They're like, so this first time I've done this,
53:53
Speaker 1: And I said, what do they think like? And they,
53:55
Speaker 1: to be honest, the guys were not excited, like it
53:59
Speaker 1: was just a thing to do. And so in that
54:04
Speaker 1: on that day, my litmus test was really just how
54:10
Speaker 1: present they were with me and how you know, if
54:14
Speaker 1: I got a smile, if I got a head nod.
54:16
Speaker 1: It's all those like nuanced little things that you and
54:19
Speaker 1: I would notice where you know they're engaged. And also
54:24
Speaker 1: I had to I had them from eight thirty and
54:27
Speaker 1: to one o'clock, so it's a long time, but knowing
54:31
Speaker 1: how to like for me that they'd organize. Okay, you're
54:35
Speaker 1: going to start talking at eight, then we're going to
54:37
Speaker 1: have a break at quarter past ten. At nine point thirty,
54:40
Speaker 1: I'm like, I'm not going for another forty five minutes
54:43
Speaker 1: because this is about their cognitive threshold in this environment
54:47
Speaker 1: with this kind of thing at the minute, like all
54:50
Speaker 1: the signs were there, and I said, all right, boys,
54:53
Speaker 1: so we're just going to have a little break five minutes.
54:56
Speaker 1: Check your phone, have a we have a drink, whatever
54:58
Speaker 1: you need to do. And so I just broke it
55:01
Speaker 1: up that way where we did about four or five
55:03
Speaker 1: fifty minute installments rather than these two hour pre planned slabs,
55:08
Speaker 1: which would not have worked. So for me, it's about that,
55:11
Speaker 1: I mean, And I think the opposite of that is
55:14
Speaker 1: if there are people looking at their phone, for me,
55:17
Speaker 1: that's a that's a big red flag. That's that's an
55:22
Speaker 1: I've I've Fortunately, I don't get very much of that.
55:25
Speaker 1: But I have been in presentations where it feels like
55:28
Speaker 1: half the rumors on their phone and not looking at
55:31
Speaker 1: the speaker, and I just my heart goes out to them,
55:35
Speaker 1: because that is tough, because you can't you can't crack
55:38
Speaker 1: the shits and tell people not to look at their
55:40
Speaker 1: phone when you're talking to a room full of adults.
55:43
Speaker 2: Now, but that is that's the thing, Like I'm always saying,
55:47
Speaker 2: just observe what you're observing. Everything else is just a story.
55:52
Speaker 2: But that is a little bit rude though, Like because
55:54
Speaker 2: on the one hand, it's like, if you're having a conversation,
55:58
Speaker 2: that works, but there are certain rules of social etiquette
56:03
Speaker 2: you don't do that.
56:04
Speaker 3: You know.
56:05
Speaker 1: It's just like, wow, I agree with you. But I
56:08
Speaker 1: think if you're on stage and you go a version
56:11
Speaker 1: of how you people looking at your phone, I'm talking,
56:13
Speaker 1: that's rude. You look like a fucking EADI.
56:16
Speaker 2: Oh god, yeah, no, you just first of all, you
56:19
Speaker 2: just took low status in front of the room and
56:21
Speaker 2: not and not in a way that is effective, like
56:28
Speaker 2: the way now you're the insecure knob in front of
56:31
Speaker 2: the room. So you just made yourself really small. I
56:34
Speaker 2: had a friend of mine who someone's phone went off
56:38
Speaker 2: in the middle of a lecture, and this lady is
56:41
Speaker 2: like quick as anything, and she's super charismatic, lodging life.
56:47
Speaker 2: And he goes to answer it in the middle of
56:50
Speaker 2: her presentation. And this wasn't like twenty people in room.
56:53
Speaker 2: It's like four hundred people in a room, like a
56:56
Speaker 2: massive presentation. She's doing her thing. She sees this, flies
57:02
Speaker 2: straight down like she's walking towards them, and then walks
57:06
Speaker 2: past them but grabs his phone and she's like, Hi,
57:08
Speaker 2: this is well, I'm not going to say her name,
57:10
Speaker 2: This is so and so. How you doing. Oh yeah,
57:13
Speaker 2: so we're having we're having a seminar. So who are
57:16
Speaker 2: you looking for? Oh yeah, he can't come to the
57:17
Speaker 2: phone right now. And it was just so funny. It
57:21
Speaker 2: was such a boss move. But because she was like
57:24
Speaker 2: cracking jokes, the whole room is laughing. She owned it
57:28
Speaker 2: and it was It was just brilliant because like, you're
57:31
Speaker 2: going to take a call in the middle of someone's session.
57:36
Speaker 1: Well speaking about emotional intelligence and social awareness and situational awareness.
57:41
Speaker 1: I mean, that's the that's the fucking one out of
57:43
Speaker 1: ten version. Mate, We're gonna fly. I love chatting to you.
57:47
Speaker 1: I'm glad that you've moved across the car I'm glad
57:50
Speaker 1: that you've moved across the car park. We all feel
57:52
Speaker 1: so much better. Uh, congrats on your fake bricks. They
57:56
Speaker 1: look beautiful. How do people find you and connect with you,
58:01
Speaker 1: my friend.
58:02
Speaker 2: Well, they can just reach out to you, because clearly
58:04
Speaker 2: you tell everybody everything. So yeah, they can get me
58:11
Speaker 2: on Robert Capuccio dot com, the self help antidote dot com.
58:16
Speaker 2: I'm on LinkedIn, You're.
58:17
Speaker 1: On all of it. We'll say goodbye here, but my
58:20
Speaker 1: thanks again.
58:21
Speaker 2: Thank you everyone, Thank you. Craig Jeers,