Latest / Pod Save America / Could Trump-Curious Black Voters Swing the Election? (Ep. 3)

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Could Trump-Curious Black Voters Swing the Election? (Ep. 3) · Pod Save America

• 0:05
  Speaker 1: We are not choosing our champion. We're choosing our opposition.
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: We're not choosing Trump over Biden. We're not choosing Biden
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: over Trump. We're making very strategic, calculated analysis about who's
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: going to put more food on our table. Moreover, we're
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: choosing the landscape upon which we're going to fight. We're
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: asking ourselves critical questions about which one of these structures
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: is going to result in the best wins, the greatest
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: advancement for our people. Black men chase after no one.
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: We lead, we build, we grow. But in order to
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: do that, we must be heard.
• 0:48
  Speaker 2: John Taylor is a co-founder of the Black Male Initiative.
• 0:51
  Speaker 2: an organization based out of Georgia that's all about empowering
• 0:54
  Speaker 2: Black men through grassroots organizing. We called them up to
• 0:57
  Speaker 2: ask what's happening with Black voters this election cycle, a
• 1:00
  Speaker 2: question that seems to be confounding almost everyone in politics
• 1:04
  Speaker 2: right now. Since the Civil Rights Act, Black voters have
• 1:07
  Speaker 2: supported Democratic candidates more than any other group of voters
• 1:10
  Speaker 2: in America. That was true again in 2020, when increased
• 1:15
  Speaker 2: Black turnout in states like Georgia made all the difference
• 1:18
  Speaker 2: in a race that was decided by about 40,000 votes.
• 1:22
  Speaker 2: But since 2020, there have been some warning signs that
• 1:25
  Speaker 2: Democrats may be losing support among the party's most reliable constituency.
• 1:30
  Speaker 2: In the 2022 midterms, Black turnout declined by nearly a
• 1:34
  Speaker 2: quarter compared to the 2018 midterms. And right now, even
• 1:39
  Speaker 2: some of the highest quality polls are showing Biden losing
• 1:42
  Speaker 2: support among Black voters, especially younger Black voters and younger
• 1:47
  Speaker 2: Black men. The latest New York Times set of battleground
• 1:50
  Speaker 2: polls found more than one in five Black swing state
• 1:54
  Speaker 2: voters say that they're even open to voting for Donald Trump.
• 1:59
  Speaker 2: Could that really be true? Or is it just a
• 2:01
  Speaker 2: bunch of noise in an election where most voters still
• 2:04
  Speaker 2: aren't tuned in? That's what we're going to try to
• 2:07
  Speaker 2: figure out in this episode. And more importantly, we're going
• 2:10
  Speaker 2: to talk about the most effective way to persuade Black
• 2:12
  Speaker 2: voters who still haven't made up their minds. Because even
• 2:16
  Speaker 2: if they're a smaller group than the polling suggests, Joe
• 2:19
  Speaker 2: Biden and the Democratic Party can't afford to lose many
• 2:22
  Speaker 2: votes from anyone, anywhere. And that's even more true if
• 2:26
  Speaker 2: they lose those votes to Donald Trump. Of course, you
• 2:32
  Speaker 2: may be wondering, why on earth would that happen? Here's
• 2:36
  Speaker 2: John Taylor again.
• 2:37
  Speaker 1: We are not a monolith. All brothers don't vote together.
• 2:41
  Speaker 1: We have varying interests. But with brothers, again, all of
• 2:45
  Speaker 1: a sudden, the fear is somehow Trump's antics Somehow his misogyny,
• 2:54
  Speaker 1: somehow his paternalistic patriarchal BS appeals to Black men. And
• 3:02
  Speaker 1: you got to ask yourself, why is that what you
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: think Black men are interested in?
• 3:07
  Speaker 3: Because it's not.
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: Will there be Black men voting for Trump? Yes. But
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: if they vote for Trump, it's not because he appeals
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: to them. It's because the narrative about where economics are
• 3:20
  Speaker 1: coming from where jobs are coming from, where access is
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: coming from, where we're going to get the best possible
• 3:27
  Speaker 1: opportunity to feed our families, that narrative is being pumped
• 3:32
  Speaker 1: out in the streets as if somehow Trump is an
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: economic savior.
• 3:38
  Speaker 2: Maybe you understand this sentiment. Maybe you're bewildered by it.
• 3:43
  Speaker 2: Either way, it's a reality we have to deal with
• 3:45
  Speaker 2: if we want to beat Donald Trump. And grappling with
• 3:48
  Speaker 2: that reality requires putting ourselves in the shoes of voters who,
• 3:51
  Speaker 2: for whatever reason, just don't follow politics as closely as
• 3:55
  Speaker 2: we do. And in the case of many young, Black,
• 3:58
  Speaker 2: struggling voters, it requires putting ourselves in the shoes of
• 4:01
  Speaker 2: people who just haven't seen the system work for them,
• 4:04
  Speaker 2: no matter who's in charge, Republicans or Democrats. And it's
• 4:08
  Speaker 2: up to us to convince them otherwise.
• 4:11
  Speaker 1: Show me how Black people survive, and I'll show you
• 4:14
  Speaker 1: who Black people will vote for. And if progressives want
• 4:18
  Speaker 1: to win, they have to do the hard work.
• 4:22
  Speaker 2: John's right. And that hard work involves reaching out, listening,
• 4:26
  Speaker 2: and knowing what to say to undecided Black voters. Some
• 4:29
  Speaker 2: of whom may very well be your friends, your family,
• 4:32
  Speaker 2: your co-workers, or your neighbors. And that's why I wanted
• 4:35
  Speaker 2: to talk to two people who are absolute experts on
• 4:38
  Speaker 2: this topic. Democratic pollster and political strategist Terrence Woodbury and
• 4:42
  Speaker 2: Michigan Democratic Party Chair Lavora Barnes. You'll hear our conversation next,
• 4:48
  Speaker 2: followed by more from John Taylor on what lessons we
• 4:50
  Speaker 2: can learn from the work his organization is doing on
• 4:53
  Speaker 2: the ground in Georgia. I'm John Favreau. Welcome to the wilderness.
• 5:06
  Speaker 2: Terrence Woodbury and Lavora Barnes, thanks for being here.
• 5:08
  Speaker 3: Thanks for having us.
• 5:10
  Speaker 4: Happy to be here.
• 5:11
  Speaker 2: So this season, we're talking about the most effective ways
• 5:14
  Speaker 2: to persuade voters who we need to beat Donald Trump,
• 5:17
  Speaker 2: but aren't yet sold on Joe Biden. And I wanted
• 5:20
  Speaker 2: to talk to both of you about Black voters. We,
• 5:23
  Speaker 2: of course, know that Black voters have been the most
• 5:26
  Speaker 2: Democratic-leaning group of voters for decades now, and that has
• 5:29
  Speaker 2: not changed over the last several elections. That said, there
• 5:34
  Speaker 2: have been signs in both election results and polling that
• 5:37
  Speaker 2: a potentially decisive number of Black voters who've supported Joe
• 5:41
  Speaker 2: Biden and Democratic candidates in the past may not do
• 5:45
  Speaker 2: so in 2024, either because they're considering voting for Trump,
• 5:49
  Speaker 2: a third-party candidate, or sitting this one out. And these
• 5:52
  Speaker 2: voters appear to be disproportionately younger and male. Terrence, you've
• 5:57
  Speaker 2: conducted countless focus groups with Black voters in your work
• 6:00
  Speaker 2: with HIT, so you probably have a better picture of
• 6:03
  Speaker 2: what's going on than almost anyone. Lavora is chair of
• 6:06
  Speaker 2: the Michigan Democratic Party. You guys have had a historic
• 6:10
  Speaker 2: string of victories since 2018 and also have a really
• 6:13
  Speaker 2: good story to tell about black turnout, especially in the
• 6:17
  Speaker 2: 2022 midterms. So let's start there. How did you all
• 6:21
  Speaker 2: manage to have a smaller drop in black turnout than
• 6:25
  Speaker 2: almost every other battleground state in the midterms?
• 6:29
  Speaker 5: Well, I'm going to chalk it up to the fact
• 6:30
  Speaker 5: that we've been working in those communities all the time.
• 6:33
  Speaker 5: We don't just show up on election day or in
• 6:35
  Speaker 5: the month leading up to election day. We're there all
• 6:38
  Speaker 5: the time. We're on the doors. We're in the neighborhoods.
• 6:40
  Speaker 5: We're in the barbershops. We have community offices open that
• 6:43
  Speaker 5: stay open. We have staff that stays on staff who
• 6:46
  Speaker 5: lives in those communities. So this is not a party
• 6:48
  Speaker 5: that shows up at the end. This is a party
• 6:50
  Speaker 5: that's there all the time talking about, learning about, and
• 6:53
  Speaker 5: listening to folks talk about the issues that matter to
• 6:55
  Speaker 5: them and then pointing directly to the work Democrats have
• 6:58
  Speaker 5: done to address those issues. It's a conversation that we
• 7:01
  Speaker 5: think you have to have all the time, not just
• 7:03
  Speaker 5: near the end and not just because there's an election
• 7:05
  Speaker 5: on the ballot. So we do it all the time.
• 7:06
  Speaker 5: We're doing it now and we're going to keep doing it.
• 7:08
  Speaker 2: And what are the big challenges that keep you up
• 7:11
  Speaker 2: at night when it comes to November?
• 7:13
  Speaker 3: Oh, so many of them. So many. You know, I
• 7:16
  Speaker 3: always worry about turnout.
• 7:18
  Speaker 5: It is just a fact of life when you're a
• 7:20
  Speaker 5: state party chair that you're going to worry about whether
• 7:22
  Speaker 5: or not the folks you need to get out the
• 7:24
  Speaker 5: door are going to get out the door. We now
• 7:26
  Speaker 5: have some of the best voting laws in the country.
• 7:29
  Speaker 5: So we know that we've given people all of the
• 7:31
  Speaker 5: access and all of the ways to get to the
• 7:33
  Speaker 5: polls and get their election taken care of and get
• 7:35
  Speaker 5: their votes counted. We just need to do the work
• 7:38
  Speaker 5: to get it done. We're ready to do the work.
• 7:39
  Speaker 5: We've got people fired up to work hard and we're
• 7:41
  Speaker 5: going to do it.
• 7:42
  Speaker 2: Terrence, obviously, there are many differences in how different groups
• 7:46
  Speaker 2: of Black voters view politics. Some of those differences fall
• 7:49
  Speaker 2: along lines of age and gender, as I mentioned. But
• 7:51
  Speaker 2: you've gone beyond simple demographics to understand how different groups
• 7:55
  Speaker 2: of Black voters see politics right now. Can you talk
• 7:58
  Speaker 2: a little bit about that?
• 7:59
  Speaker 4: Absolutely.
• 8:00
  Speaker 6: You know, when we look past the simple demographics and
• 8:04
  Speaker 6: begin to cluster Black voters by some shared characteristics and values,
• 8:09
  Speaker 6: we've identified at Hitch Strategies, five key Black voting segments.
• 8:14
  Speaker 6: One is this Black civil rights voter that a lot
• 8:16
  Speaker 6: of folks think of. This is the most likely voter
• 8:19
  Speaker 6: in the electorate. They're over the age of 50. They
• 8:22
  Speaker 6: are the most likely voters and the most likely Democrats.
• 8:25
  Speaker 6: But then you have these other two groups in the
• 8:26
  Speaker 6: middle that if you just look at them by demographics,
• 8:29
  Speaker 6: they look very similar. This next-gen optimist who is very
• 8:34
  Speaker 6: similar to the rightful cynic They're all under the age
• 8:36
  Speaker 6: of 50.
• 8:37
  Speaker 4: They're all Black.
• 8:38
  Speaker 6: But their attitudes about politics is so different. The next-gen
• 8:42
  Speaker 6: optimist has missed half of recent elections because they just
• 8:46
  Speaker 6: didn't know they were happening. They think they vote in
• 8:48
  Speaker 6: every election. They tell us they vote in every election.
• 8:50
  Speaker 6: But they didn't know half of them happened. Unlike the cynic, John,
• 8:54
  Speaker 6: who has also missed half of recent elections. But it's
• 8:58
  Speaker 6: not because they forgot. It's because they hate Democrats. They
• 9:01
  Speaker 6: hate Republicans. They hate the system.
• 9:03
  Speaker 4: They hate... all of the institutions that have failed them.
• 9:06
  Speaker 6: We've heard this rightful Senate group often referred to in
• 9:09
  Speaker 6: the media now as double.
• 9:11
  Speaker 4: Haters because they hate both candidates. Well, the fact is they.
• 9:15
  Speaker 6: Hate institutions that have failed them. And because of that,
• 9:18
  Speaker 6: they are more likely to swing in and out of
• 9:19
  Speaker 6: the electorate or to swing across partisan lines. And that
• 9:23
  Speaker 6: is what we have to solve for in this election.
• 9:26
  Speaker 2: It sounds like the first group you talked about is
• 9:29
  Speaker 2: much more of a traditional turnout challenge, reminding them when
• 9:33
  Speaker 2: the election is, letting them know what's going on, just
• 9:35
  Speaker 2: giving them good information. And then the second group is
• 9:38
  Speaker 2: much more of a persuasion challenge, it sounds like.
• 9:41
  Speaker 4: That's exactly right.
• 9:42
  Speaker 6: We have to both convince them to vote in this
• 9:44
  Speaker 6: election and convince them to vote for Democrats. They don't
• 9:47
  Speaker 6: fall in the ideological lines that many of the other
• 9:51
  Speaker 6: Black voting segments do. And so we have to give
• 9:53
  Speaker 6: them a reason to vote and to vote for Democrats.
• 9:55
  Speaker 2: Considering what you've heard in your focus groups, how concerned,
• 9:59
  Speaker 2: just an overall question, how concerned are you at this moment,
• 10:03
  Speaker 2: five months out, about Joe Biden's support among Black voters?
• 10:08
  Speaker 6: Look, we have seen some erosion from Joe Biden's 2020
• 10:11
  Speaker 6: Black voters support level, specifically amongst younger Black voters. You
• 10:15
  Speaker 6: mentioned this, John, that that the gender gap amongst Black
• 10:19
  Speaker 6: voters has in fact shrunk since 2020. And now the
• 10:22
  Speaker 6: gender gap is only about four points. The difference between
• 10:25
  Speaker 6: how many Black men are supporting Joe Biden compared to
• 10:27
  Speaker 6: how many Black women are supporting Biden is only four points.
• 10:30
  Speaker 6: The generation gap between young Black voters' support for Joe
• 10:35
  Speaker 6: Biden and older Black voters' support is 40 points. That
• 10:38
  Speaker 6: is where I am the most concerned because those young
• 10:42
  Speaker 6: voters are emerging as the largest group voting bloc, even
• 10:47
  Speaker 6: though they remain the least likely voters.
• 10:50
  Speaker 2: LaVor, what about you? Are you hearing and seeing similar
• 10:53
  Speaker 2: concerns on the ground in Michigan?
• 10:56
  Speaker 5: Yeah, I will tell you, we've got a whole group
• 10:58
  Speaker 5: of young Black folks who work for this party and
• 11:01
  Speaker 5: who are working on our campaign, working hard to talk
• 11:03
  Speaker 5: to their colleagues, their friends about the importance of this
• 11:06
  Speaker 5: election and about the issues. And yes, There is definitely
• 11:10
  Speaker 5: a gap in knowledge, a gap in understanding, a gap
• 11:12
  Speaker 5: in desire to participate among the young folks. And one
• 11:16
  Speaker 5: of the things that our folks are doing is like
• 11:18
  Speaker 5: finding different ways to get in the room with these
• 11:20
  Speaker 5: folks wherever they are. If that means a dance party,
• 11:23
  Speaker 5: then let's have a dance party, right? If that means
• 11:25
  Speaker 5: we go to a bar or a club, we go
• 11:27
  Speaker 5: to a bar or a club. You've got to go
• 11:29
  Speaker 5: to find the people where they are and remind them
• 11:30
  Speaker 5: of the importance of this election and the importance to
• 11:32
  Speaker 5: their lives, to their futures. of turning Biden and Harris
• 11:36
  Speaker 5: to the White House. And they're receptive once you get
• 11:38
  Speaker 5: to them. And I think this is the key to
• 11:40
  Speaker 5: the work that we do here in Michigan that so
• 11:42
  Speaker 5: many other states and frankly campaigns.
• 11:44
  Speaker 3: Need to ping off of. You need to be having
• 11:46
  Speaker 3: these conversations all the time.
• 11:48
  Speaker 5: This is not about just showing up in September to
• 11:51
  Speaker 5: do turnout the way we have traditionally done it. That'll
• 11:54
  Speaker 5: get you that first group of folks Terrence talked to
• 11:56
  Speaker 5: us about. But these folks, we've got to persuade them.
• 11:59
  Speaker 5: And that means you've got to go find them where
• 12:00
  Speaker 5: they are and have conversations with them. You can't just
• 12:04
  Speaker 5: show up on election day and drag them out the
• 12:06
  Speaker 5: door the way we used to do it. This is
• 12:07
  Speaker 5: a much bigger job that we do now all the time.
• 12:10
  Speaker 5: And everybody ought to be doing it.
• 12:12
  Speaker 2: Obviously, there must be a ton of different kinds of
• 12:15
  Speaker 2: conversations that you're having with these kinds of voters. Are
• 12:18
  Speaker 2: there common themes that come up when you first ask them,
• 12:22
  Speaker 2: are you thinking about participating in this election? What do
• 12:24
  Speaker 2: you think about Joe Biden? What do you think about
• 12:26
  Speaker 2: Donald Trump? Like, what do they tend to say that's
• 12:28
  Speaker 2: that's that you're hearing most often?
• 12:30
  Speaker 3: There absolutely are common themes, and the economy is one
• 12:33
  Speaker 3: of them. People talk about money. People think Donald Trump
• 12:36
  Speaker 3: wrote them a check. I heard this yesterday.
• 12:37
  Speaker 5: I was in a club in Detroit yesterday with a
• 12:39
  Speaker 5: group of Black men who said, I'm hearing all the
• 12:41
  Speaker 5: time people think Donald Trump gave them money.
• 12:43
  Speaker 3: Trump wrote me a check. So, economy. age, obviously.
• 12:47
  Speaker 5: These young folks are like these guys, neither of them, right?
• 12:50
  Speaker 5: Know who I am, know anything about my struggle, know
• 12:52
  Speaker 5: anything about my life. They are not me. And this
• 12:54
  Speaker 5: is why it's so important that we talk about who
• 12:56
  Speaker 5: the messengers are too, right? Because it is not about
• 12:59
  Speaker 5: me sitting down with folks. It's not about, you know,
• 13:02
  Speaker 5: Joe Biden. It's about colleagues, friends, neighbors, moms and dads,
• 13:06
  Speaker 5: you know, having these conversations with these young folks about
• 13:09
  Speaker 5: the importance of this election and tying things like jobs
• 13:12
  Speaker 5: and the economy directly back to the administration and the
• 13:16
  Speaker 5: work that they've done. That administration here in Michigan and
• 13:18
  Speaker 5: that administration in D.C., Biden and Harris. And, you know,
• 13:21
  Speaker 5: we were talking to a guy from the Carpenters Union
• 13:23
  Speaker 5: yesterday who talked about how many good paying jobs there
• 13:26
  Speaker 5: are out there for young folks who want to come
• 13:28
  Speaker 5: show up and get trained. That's because of the Biden
• 13:31
  Speaker 5: and Harris administration. And that's the kind of thing we
• 13:33
  Speaker 5: have to keep telling folks. And we've got to get
• 13:35
  Speaker 5: in these rooms and have those conversations.
• 13:37
  Speaker 2: LaVor, I saw that when there was drop-off in Black
• 13:40
  Speaker 2: voter turnout, especially young Black voter turnout, between the midterms
• 13:44
  Speaker 2: in 2018 and the midterms in 2022, there was not
• 13:49
  Speaker 2: as much of a drop in Michigan. And I think
• 13:53
  Speaker 2: I read that abortion was one reason why. does that
• 13:56
  Speaker 2: remain sort of a central issue? And is that an
• 14:00
  Speaker 2: issue that is also, you've seen persuading some people who
• 14:04
  Speaker 2: might not be decided about the election to actually get
• 14:06
  Speaker 2: involved and go vote?
• 14:08
  Speaker 5: Yes, abortion and the erosion of any rights, like the
• 14:12
  Speaker 5: combination of watching folks try to roll back rights that
• 14:15
  Speaker 5: we have worked so hard to get, and the fact
• 14:17
  Speaker 5: that it could happen again with abortion, with voting rights.
• 14:20
  Speaker 5: We've done so much good work here in Michigan, and
• 14:22
  Speaker 5: it's all at stake, and people need to understand that.
• 14:25
  Speaker 5: And I think when When we're having those conversations, we
• 14:27
  Speaker 5: get a lot of nodding of heads. People are understanding that,
• 14:30
  Speaker 5: you know, we've done a lot of good work here.
• 14:32
  Speaker 5: The country has done a lot of good work and
• 14:35
  Speaker 5: that Trump and the Republicans are a threat to that.
• 14:37
  Speaker 3: Good work around rights. And absolutely, abortion is one of them.
• 14:40
  Speaker 5: We had really great conversations in 2022 with Black voters
• 14:45
  Speaker 5: about supporting their Black sisters, mothers, and friends in the
• 14:48
  Speaker 5: abortion realm. And frankly, you know, Black men don't want
• 14:51
  Speaker 5: unwanted pregnancies either, right? And so these are the kind
• 14:54
  Speaker 5: of conversations that we were able to have around abortion.
• 14:56
  Speaker 5: And we're still having those because it's still a threat.
• 14:58
  Speaker 5: It's still out there.
• 14:59
  Speaker 2: Terrence, I've seen some pollsters and pundits talking about the
• 15:02
  Speaker 2: potential for a racial realignment in 2024 based on public
• 15:07
  Speaker 2: polls showing some truly wild swings among black voters. There
• 15:12
  Speaker 2: was just a Fox News poll this week that had
• 15:14
  Speaker 2: Trump winning 25% of the black vote in Virginia. The
• 15:18
  Speaker 2: most recent set of New York Times polls showed more
• 15:21
  Speaker 2: than one in five black voters in swing states open
• 15:25
  Speaker 2: to voting for Donald Trump. I'm guessing that you don't
• 15:28
  Speaker 2: believe this to be completely true, but what's your best
• 15:31
  Speaker 2: guess as to what the hell is going on with
• 15:33
  Speaker 2: all the polling this cycle?
• 15:35
  Speaker 7: Oh, yeah, yeah.
• 15:36
  Speaker 6: You know, there is a better and worse way to
• 15:38
  Speaker 6: poll Black folks. And we are seeing some of the
• 15:40
  Speaker 6: worst ways driving media coverage. Look, there's a couple of
• 15:44
  Speaker 6: things that we find wrong in polling, specifically with voters
• 15:47
  Speaker 6: of color.
• 15:47
  Speaker 4: One is when the sample size is too small.
• 15:50
  Speaker 6: You can't talk to 100 or 200 Black folks and
• 15:52
  Speaker 6: predict what the community is going to do because it
• 15:55
  Speaker 6: under-represents the diversity within the community. The other is when
• 16:00
  Speaker 6: we just present a forced choice between Joe Biden and
• 16:03
  Speaker 6: Donald Trump.
• 16:04
  Speaker 4: That is false.
• 16:05
  Speaker 6: There will not be only two names on the ballot.
• 16:09
  Speaker 6: In any of the 50 states, will there only be
• 16:10
  Speaker 6: two names on the ballot? And so when you force
• 16:13
  Speaker 6: that choice between two, you're going to over-represent the support
• 16:16
  Speaker 6: for both of those candidates. And then the last is
• 16:20
  Speaker 6: the third party erosion, the third party threat here that
• 16:23
  Speaker 6: is not being counted in a lot of the public polling,
• 16:26
  Speaker 6: I think is measuring some of the frustration and discontent
• 16:30
  Speaker 6: that when Black voters say that They're either undecided or
• 16:34
  Speaker 6: considering third party. What they are really expressing is a
• 16:37
  Speaker 6: frustration with Joe Biden and with Democrats. And the number
• 16:41
  Speaker 6: one reason why young voters have expressed frustration or lack
• 16:46
  Speaker 6: of confidence in the administration is because they don't think
• 16:48
  Speaker 6: enough has happened. And that is just demonstrably untrue. We
• 16:51
  Speaker 6: have to do a better job demonstrating the progress that's
• 16:54
  Speaker 6: been made on their top issues, including student loans, climate change,
• 16:59
  Speaker 6: the economy, criminal justice reform. and others that the Biden
• 17:03
  Speaker 6: administration has made tremendous progress on.
• 17:05
  Speaker 2: Lavora, are you encountering any new or surprising Trump curiosity
• 17:11
  Speaker 2: among Black voters in Michigan? You mentioned some saying, well,
• 17:15
  Speaker 2: he sent us a check. Are there other reasons that
• 17:19
  Speaker 2: you've heard for people supporting Trump that have surprised you
• 17:22
  Speaker 2: or thinking about supporting Trump? Or is this a phenomenon
• 17:25
  Speaker 2: that you're noticing? Or is it more sort of like
• 17:27
  Speaker 2: what Terrence was just saying, that there's just a lot
• 17:30
  Speaker 2: of unhappy voters with both parties and both candidates?
• 17:33
  Speaker 5: Yeah, I'm running into more unhappy voters. I rarely run
• 17:37
  Speaker 5: into someone who tells me that they are going to
• 17:38
  Speaker 5: support Trump.
• 17:39
  Speaker 3: Now, of course, I'm the Democratic Party chair.
• 17:41
  Speaker 5: I'm probably not going to be running into a lot
• 17:43
  Speaker 5: of folks who are going to tell me they're going
• 17:45
  Speaker 5: to run, they're going to vote for Trump.
• 17:46
  Speaker 4: Fair, fair.
• 17:47
  Speaker 5: But I have run into a lot of folks who
• 17:49
  Speaker 5: talk about being offended by the way Trump is trying
• 17:52
  Speaker 5: to reach them. The suggestion that holding up an ugly
• 17:56
  Speaker 5: ass pair of gold shoes or telling me that the
• 17:59
  Speaker 5: Black folks like my mugshot, that's the way to get
• 18:01
  Speaker 5: my vote. People are offended by it. People understand when
• 18:04
  Speaker 5: they are being used in that way and they don't
• 18:07
  Speaker 5: like it. But most people that are talking to us
• 18:10
  Speaker 5: about the issues and about their concerns are really just
• 18:13
  Speaker 5: straight up concerned about whether or not either of these
• 18:17
  Speaker 5: two men have done or will do anything that make
• 18:19
  Speaker 5: their lives better. And that's why, as Terrence says, it's
• 18:22
  Speaker 5: such an important part of our role to make sure
• 18:25
  Speaker 5: we're telling that story, pointing directly to the things that
• 18:27
  Speaker 5: the Biden-Harris administration has done and will do. And of course,
• 18:30
  Speaker 5: pointing back to who Donald Trump was as president, who
• 18:33
  Speaker 5: Donald Trump continues to promise to be going forward as president.
• 18:37
  Speaker 5: And I think that those are conversations that really are
• 18:41
  Speaker 5: what people are having with us here at the party
• 18:44
  Speaker 5: about this election and about Donald Trump, not about, I
• 18:47
  Speaker 5: think Donald Trump is my man.
• 18:48
  Speaker 3: That's not happening.
• 18:49
  Speaker 6: I want to add something here because while I do
• 18:51
  Speaker 6: think that public polling is over-representing Black people's support for
• 18:54
  Speaker 6: Donald Trump, he will very likely win more Black people's
• 18:59
  Speaker 6: votes in 2024 than he did in 2020. Not 20%,
• 19:03
  Speaker 6: not 25%, but more than he did in the last election.
• 19:06
  Speaker 6: And I think that there are some things contributing to that.
• 19:09
  Speaker 6: And one is that Democrats have to reclaim some of
• 19:14
  Speaker 6: the values that Black people have hold very, very dear.
• 19:17
  Speaker 6: Values like spirituality, masculinity, patriotism, values that not Joe Biden,
• 19:23
  Speaker 6: but that Democrats more broadly have been ceding to the
• 19:27
  Speaker 6: Republican Party. And there's a way for us to message
• 19:31
  Speaker 6: our very, very progressive issues, issues like abortion, like gender
• 19:35
  Speaker 6: and sexuality, that we can message those progressive issues through
• 19:40
  Speaker 6: Black-ass values. And there's examples of that like, you know,
• 19:44
  Speaker 6: if God is granting all of us freedom of choice,
• 19:46
  Speaker 6: then why should government grant women any less than that?
• 19:49
  Speaker 6: Or as the head of my household, I must protect
• 19:52
  Speaker 6: my family from intrusive governments that tell them who they
• 19:55
  Speaker 6: must be or when they must start a family. Those are,
• 19:58
  Speaker 6: you know, that head of household and spiritual values that
• 20:02
  Speaker 6: folks like my father hold very, very dear and don't
• 20:04
  Speaker 6: want to see to Republicans, even though he's never going
• 20:07
  Speaker 6: to vote for them.
• 20:08
  Speaker 4: And so that's a part of the work that we
• 20:09
  Speaker 4: also have to do here in our messaging.
• 20:12
  Speaker 2: That brings up an interesting question because when you talk
• 20:15
  Speaker 2: about Democrats reclaiming values like spirituality, patriotism, masculinity, a positive
• 20:25
  Speaker 2: version of masculinity.
• 20:26
  Speaker 4: It's not all toxic.
• 20:28
  Speaker 7: Right, right.
• 20:29
  Speaker 2: It's not all toxic. But it does make me, my
• 20:32
  Speaker 2: gut instinct on that is that reclaiming those values would
• 20:34
  Speaker 2: appeal to older voters of all races, really. And it's
• 20:39
  Speaker 2: interesting to me that the gap you're seeing with black voters,
• 20:42
  Speaker 2: and I think obviously older black voters still have a
• 20:44
  Speaker 2: lot of ties to the civil rights movement and connect
• 20:47
  Speaker 2: the democratic party with the civil rights movement. But what
• 20:50
  Speaker 2: do you think is going on with the generation gap
• 20:54
  Speaker 2: and some of these younger voters and these younger voters
• 20:56
  Speaker 2: who may be turning away from the party or Joe Biden?
• 21:01
  Speaker 2: You know, you talked about how they, they don't think
• 21:02
  Speaker 2: that he did anything for them. What, How are they
• 21:05
  Speaker 2: seeing sort of these values that you're talking about in
• 21:08
  Speaker 2: terms of patriotism and masculinity and spirituality? Are those values
• 21:13
  Speaker 2: that would resonate with younger voters who may be turning
• 21:16
  Speaker 2: away from the party?
• 21:17
  Speaker 6: I mean, hyper-masculinity certainly does. You know, that's a part
• 21:21
  Speaker 6: of the cultural appeal that Donald Trump is trying to
• 21:25
  Speaker 6: make with, you know, with the rappers that he's assembling,
• 21:28
  Speaker 6: with the, you know, it is an effort to appeal
• 21:32
  Speaker 6: to that hyper-masculinity. But a lot of when we see
• 21:36
  Speaker 6: a swing of young voters towards Republicans, like we saw
• 21:40
  Speaker 6: in a state like Florida, where Ron DeSantis increases margins
• 21:44
  Speaker 6: amongst young Black voters by almost 10 points, a lot
• 21:47
  Speaker 6: of that is being driven by drop-off of young voters.
• 21:51
  Speaker 6: That when less young Black people are participating in the electorate,
• 21:57
  Speaker 6: then it is giving young conservative Black voters a higher
• 22:02
  Speaker 6: and disproportionate representation in the polls.
• 22:21
  Speaker 2: Let's talk a little bit more about the third-party threat
• 22:24
  Speaker 2: And of course, we don't know which third party candidates
• 22:26
  Speaker 2: will be on the ballots in which states yet completely.
• 22:29
  Speaker 2: We know that RFK Jr. is out there, Cornel West,
• 22:33
  Speaker 2: Jill Stein. I believe RFK Jr. and Jill Stein are
• 22:36
  Speaker 2: both on the ballot in Michigan. Terrence, you guys did
• 22:40
  Speaker 2: a focus group last year with male voters of color
• 22:43
  Speaker 2: who supported Biden in 2020, but are at least contemplating
• 22:46
  Speaker 2: supporting a third party candidate in 2024. Let's listen to
• 22:50
  Speaker 2: a clip.
• 22:50
  Speaker 8: That Trump will win the White House because Biden- and
• 22:54
  Speaker 8: Cornell will split the vote, and then Trump will win.
• 22:57
  Speaker 4: And I want to get a sense, Howard, what's your
• 22:59
  Speaker 4: reaction to that?
• 23:00
  Speaker 8: Will you still vote for Cornell West or whoever your
• 23:03
  Speaker 8: independent person is?
• 23:05
  Speaker 3: The numbers, I'm not going based off the numbers.
• 23:09
  Speaker 1: I'm going based off what I feel like that person
• 23:12
  Speaker 1: is going to bring to the table.
• 23:14
  Speaker 5: Even though I know the math, Donald Trump's probably going
• 23:17
  Speaker 5: to win, I'm still going to vote for who I
• 23:19
  Speaker 5: feel like.
• 23:19
  Speaker 4: Would bring something to the table.
• 23:20
  Speaker 8: Anyone else in Howard's position say, I would still vote
• 23:23
  Speaker 8: third party over Joe Biden if that third party person
• 23:27
  Speaker 8: aligned with my policy positions better than Joe Biden does.
• 23:31
  Speaker 4: Anyone else that would do that?
• 23:33
  Speaker 8: Given the calculus we talked about with President Trump possibly running.
• 23:36
  Speaker 4: So one, two, three, four, five, six. So all of
• 23:39
  Speaker 4: us are saying, who are on that side are saying
• 23:41
  Speaker 4: that as well.
• 23:42
  Speaker 2: So that was eight of eight. Lavorre, I want to
• 23:44
  Speaker 2: start with you here. Was any of that surprising or
• 23:47
  Speaker 2: does it sound similar? to what you've heard in Michigan
• 23:50
  Speaker 2: and how are you all approaching these potential third-party voters?
• 23:56
  Speaker 3: Yeah, we have heard it before.
• 23:57
  Speaker 5: You know, we've experienced the third-party candidate on our ballot,
• 24:00
  Speaker 5: look at 2016. And I will tell you this, that
• 24:04
  Speaker 5: what we do know is that just as Terrence's work
• 24:07
  Speaker 5: there showed, Telling people that voting for the third party
• 24:11
  Speaker 5: is how you're going to make the other guy win
• 24:13
  Speaker 5: is not convincing. What is convincing is reminding people of
• 24:17
  Speaker 5: the value of having Biden and Harris in the office.
• 24:20
  Speaker 5: We've got to tell our story. This is not about
• 24:23
  Speaker 5: why not to vote third party. It's about why to
• 24:25
  Speaker 5: vote Joe Biden and Kamala Harris. There are, of course,
• 24:28
  Speaker 5: some things about those third party candidates we can share.
• 24:31
  Speaker 5: that might help people make a decision, and we will
• 24:33
  Speaker 5: be sharing those things also. But it is so important
• 24:36
  Speaker 5: instead to be very focused on the good story that
• 24:39
  Speaker 5: we've got to tell and make sure we're doing a
• 24:41
  Speaker 5: good job telling it. And I think that anybody who
• 24:44
  Speaker 5: thinks that the way you get someone to choose not
• 24:47
  Speaker 5: to choose that third party, not to make that choice
• 24:49
  Speaker 5: when they're looking at these two men thinking, neither of
• 24:52
  Speaker 5: these two men will represent me, maybe this one over
• 24:54
  Speaker 5: here will, The answer isn't to say, you're going to
• 24:57
  Speaker 5: make me lose.
• 24:58
  Speaker 3: The answer is to say, here's why I.
• 25:01
  Speaker 5: Need you to help me continue the work that we've
• 25:03
  Speaker 5: been doing. Look at what we've been able to accomplish
• 25:06
  Speaker 5: so far because you voted for me last time. I
• 25:09
  Speaker 5: need you again to make sure we can keep doing
• 25:11
  Speaker 5: this work. And that's the message that we're going to
• 25:13
  Speaker 5: be saying all over Michigan from now until November. This
• 25:16
  Speaker 5: is why we need to send Biden and Harris back.
• 25:19
  Speaker 2: Terrence, obviously that group was from a year ago. Now
• 25:22
  Speaker 2: that the race is set, More people are paying attention.
• 25:27
  Speaker 2: More people know that it's Biden versus Trump, that those
• 25:30
  Speaker 2: are going to be the nominees. Has that kind of
• 25:32
  Speaker 2: sentiment changed at all in focus groups that you're hearing?
• 25:36
  Speaker 4: Yeah, absolutely.
• 25:37
  Speaker 6: So a couple of things happened in that focus group. One,
• 25:40
  Speaker 6: to your point, they were before Donald Trump was the
• 25:42
  Speaker 6: presumptive nominee. And two, they were a group of black
• 25:46
  Speaker 6: men that had previously voted for Biden and were unsure
• 25:48
  Speaker 6: about who they were going to vote for. And so
• 25:50
  Speaker 6: some of that is represented there. After 2016, we conducted
• 25:56
  Speaker 6: third party focus groups, right? And the point of them
• 25:58
  Speaker 6: was to determine if we can create some voters remorse
• 26:03
  Speaker 6: amongst those third party voters that like, look, now that
• 26:06
  Speaker 6: Donald Trump has won and we've had six months of
• 26:08
  Speaker 6: his administration and we can show you what Jeff Sessions
• 26:11
  Speaker 6: has done and we can show you Muslim bans and
• 26:13
  Speaker 6: we can show you all of the awful things that
• 26:15
  Speaker 6: we anticipated.
• 26:17
  Speaker 4: If the election were today, how would you vote different?
• 26:20
  Speaker 6: And the way, the confusion in those voters when they
• 26:23
  Speaker 6: were forced to answer that question and they had to
• 26:26
  Speaker 6: look up and say, well, what if we wouldn't do
• 26:28
  Speaker 6: anything different? And we realized there that creating this remorse,
• 26:33
  Speaker 6: this idea that the reason the other guy won is
• 26:36
  Speaker 6: because of how you voted, that that would not be disqualifying.
• 26:40
  Speaker 6: And so we are going to have to give them,
• 26:42
  Speaker 6: to LaVor's point, not just a reason to vote against them,
• 26:46
  Speaker 6: but a reason to vote for us. And that reason
• 26:48
  Speaker 6: has to be specifically because their lives have improved. And
• 26:53
  Speaker 6: that is incumbent upon Democrats, upon Joe Biden, and upon
• 26:56
  Speaker 6: campaigns to demonstrate how our votes have made our lives better.
• 27:03
  Speaker 2: Well, that's a good segue into the next thing I
• 27:06
  Speaker 2: want to talk about, which is what it will take
• 27:08
  Speaker 2: to persuade some of these voters to ultimately support Joe
• 27:12
  Speaker 2: Biden again. The president has given several speeches to Black
• 27:15
  Speaker 2: audiences just over the last several weeks. He spoke to
• 27:18
  Speaker 2: the NAACP in Detroit. He delivered the commencement at Terrence's
• 27:22
  Speaker 2: alma mater, Morehouse. He was in Philly with Kamala Harris
• 27:26
  Speaker 2: at a very big event there, kicking off their black
• 27:28
  Speaker 2: voter outreach program. Here's some of what he said at
• 27:31
  Speaker 2: these events.
• 27:31
  Speaker 9: So I came today to speak the truth. The truth
• 27:38
  Speaker 9: about promises made and promises kept. I promised to put
• 27:44
  Speaker 9: racial equality at the center of everything I do because
• 27:48
  Speaker 9: you voted for We're invested more than ever in the
• 27:52
  Speaker 9: black families and communities. A promise made and a promise kept.
• 27:56
  Speaker 9: What is democracy? If black men are being killed in
• 28:00
  Speaker 9: the street, what is democracy? Betrayal of broken promises still
• 28:05
  Speaker 9: leave black communities behind. Most of all, what does it mean,
• 28:11
  Speaker 9: as we've.
• 28:12
  Speaker 3: Heard before, to.
• 28:14
  Speaker 9: Be a black man who loves his country, even if
• 28:17
  Speaker 9: it doesn't love him back in equal measure?
• 28:19
  Speaker 2: Lavora, what do you think about the promises made, promises
• 28:24
  Speaker 2: kept message? Does that resonate with folks in Michigan?
• 28:27
  Speaker 3: We use it all the time. Yes, it does.
• 28:31
  Speaker 5: We use it to talk about our legislature because, you know,
• 28:33
  Speaker 5: we made some promises. We got a trifecta here, a
• 28:36
  Speaker 5: governor and a state house and the state Senate, and
• 28:38
  Speaker 5: they have gone about the business of keeping those promises.
• 28:41
  Speaker 3: And we use that language all the time. People get it.
• 28:44
  Speaker 5: You do have to then follow it by reminding them
• 28:46
  Speaker 5: what the things were that we promised and how we
• 28:48
  Speaker 5: kept those promises. And we do that part as well,
• 28:51
  Speaker 5: but it is, it works because I think people love
• 28:54
  Speaker 5: to hear that's right. You did tell me you were
• 28:56
  Speaker 5: going to do that. And then you did it. And
• 28:59
  Speaker 5: we use it a lot. We're going to keep using it.
• 29:01
  Speaker 5: Folks seem to respond to it.
• 29:03
  Speaker 7: Terrence.
• 29:04
  Speaker 2: Here's my challenge with the promises made promises kept message
• 29:07
  Speaker 2: is all of the research, all the focus groups, uh,
• 29:11
  Speaker 2: all the polling, just talking to people. You get this
• 29:15
  Speaker 2: sense that I'm not feeling the progress in my own life, right?
• 29:20
  Speaker 2: That the economy, I hear great things about the economy.
• 29:23
  Speaker 2: I hear all these statistics. I hear about the stock market.
• 29:25
  Speaker 2: I hear about unemployment, but it's, I'm not feeling it
• 29:27
  Speaker 2: in my own life. How do you help people understand what,
• 29:32
  Speaker 2: what the president has accomplished when they might not be
• 29:36
  Speaker 2: feeling it in their own lives, and you want to
• 29:39
  Speaker 2: make sure that it doesn't sound like it's out of touch,
• 29:43
  Speaker 2: that he's saying promise made, promise kept. And they're thinking, well,
• 29:46
  Speaker 2: I don't feel like there's been any promises kept yet because,
• 29:49
  Speaker 2: you know, I'm still paying too much for groceries and,
• 29:53
  Speaker 2: you know, whatever else their concerns may be.
• 29:56
  Speaker 6: So in transparency, I was fortunate enough to help contribute
• 30:00
  Speaker 6: to some of those speeches.
• 30:03
  Speaker 2: I didn't know that before this interview, by the way,
• 30:06
  Speaker 2: but I could tell. Let me tell you.
• 30:07
  Speaker 3: You can hear it.
• 30:08
  Speaker 2: Because I've now talked to you enough and read enough
• 30:11
  Speaker 2: of your research. So, yeah, that's great.
• 30:14
  Speaker 6: Some of the stuff that we hear that really resonates there,
• 30:17
  Speaker 6: promises made does begin to cut through the cynicism, reminding
• 30:22
  Speaker 6: people of what he promised and how he has delivered.
• 30:26
  Speaker 6: And the other thing that I think resonates there, John,
• 30:27
  Speaker 6: and we've talked about this before, is it's changing the
• 30:30
  Speaker 6: hero of the story, right? It's taking the cape off
• 30:33
  Speaker 6: of Joe Biden and putting it on these voters. And
• 30:36
  Speaker 6: when I hear him say, because you voted, we have
• 30:40
  Speaker 6: been able to do X, Y, Z, it's empowering, right?
• 30:44
  Speaker 6: It reminds voters that, again, our lives are improving because
• 30:48
  Speaker 6: of our votes and not just because of some hero
• 30:51
  Speaker 6: in Washington that's there saving us, but that we are,
• 30:54
  Speaker 6: in fact, delivering the progress. And then the other thing
• 30:57
  Speaker 6: that I heard there is that he's acknowledging the pain.
• 30:59
  Speaker 6: What is democracy if Black men can still be killed
• 31:01
  Speaker 6: in the streets? That a part of us demonstrating progress
• 31:06
  Speaker 6: is not appearing to wave a mission accomplished flag.
• 31:10
  Speaker 4: That Black folks are still in pain. That groceries are
• 31:13
  Speaker 4: still too damn expensive.
• 31:15
  Speaker 6: That Black parents are still having to talk with their
• 31:18
  Speaker 6: kids before they get behind the wheel.
• 31:19
  Speaker 4: And so he's acknowledging some of that pain.
• 31:22
  Speaker 6: And a part of what I think the campaign is
• 31:24
  Speaker 6: going to have to continue to do and and to
• 31:26
  Speaker 6: your question of how do we make this progress resonate
• 31:29
  Speaker 6: to folks that don't feel it, I think there's two things. One,
• 31:33
  Speaker 6: we have to change the messengers, right? They need to
• 31:36
  Speaker 6: hear from people that look like them, right? It's different
• 31:39
  Speaker 6: to hear the president say, your life is better because
• 31:42
  Speaker 6: than it is to hear someone that has your shared
• 31:45
  Speaker 6: walk of life say, because of that student loan forgiveness,
• 31:48
  Speaker 6: I was able to do.
• 31:49
  Speaker 9: X, Y, Z.
• 31:50
  Speaker 6: And that's important because Black folks have a very high
• 31:53
  Speaker 6: perception of shared fate. And so when we see other
• 31:55
  Speaker 6: Black people doing well, doing better, it does reinforce that, one,
• 32:00
  Speaker 6: we contributed to that with our votes, and two, that
• 32:03
  Speaker 6: progress is available for me as well.
• 32:05
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I've heard you talk before about the difference between
• 32:08
  Speaker 2: defending democracy and then talking about fixing democracy. And it
• 32:14
  Speaker 2: does seem like, obviously, democracy is going to be central
• 32:17
  Speaker 2: to the message between now and November. That's by necessity,
• 32:22
  Speaker 2: since that's what's under... threat right now by Donald Trump
• 32:26
  Speaker 2: and MAGA Republicans. But it was interesting hearing him in
• 32:29
  Speaker 2: that Morehouse speech sort of alluding to the fact that, yeah,
• 32:34
  Speaker 2: maybe democracy, maybe you don't think democracy necessarily works for you.
• 32:39
  Speaker 2: And it's not just him saying that he will defend democracy,
• 32:43
  Speaker 2: but actually giving a defense of democracy as a system
• 32:48
  Speaker 2: that is worth voting for and fighting for. Do you
• 32:51
  Speaker 2: think that's sort of important for him to continue to do?
• 32:54
  Speaker 4: Absolutely.
• 32:55
  Speaker 6: The problem with the frame of fixing democracy is that
• 32:59
  Speaker 6: folks that have had mixed results from democracy aren't that
• 33:02
  Speaker 6: interested in fixing it. You know, folks, especially millennials who
• 33:06
  Speaker 6: have now voted in several elections with the person that
• 33:09
  Speaker 6: got the most vote also lost. It is obvious that
• 33:13
  Speaker 6: the system, that this current democratic system isn't working the
• 33:17
  Speaker 6: way it's supposed to. It's not working for everyone that's
• 33:19
  Speaker 6: participating in it. And so what we see the just
• 33:24
  Speaker 6: encouraging people to vote and defend democracy is acknowledging the
• 33:28
  Speaker 6: parts of it that aren't working for everybody. And I
• 33:31
  Speaker 6: think that that is important, especially for the cynics, the
• 33:33
  Speaker 6: cynics who feel like these institutions have failed them. He
• 33:37
  Speaker 6: is right to acknowledge the ways that it has failed
• 33:39
  Speaker 6: them and the ways that he can enlist them. Not
• 33:42
  Speaker 6: that if we elect him, he can defend it and
• 33:45
  Speaker 6: fix it for us, but that we have to enlist
• 33:47
  Speaker 6: them in the fight and in the process of fixing
• 33:50
  Speaker 6: it and making it work for everybody.
• 33:52
  Speaker 3: I love that.
• 33:53
  Speaker 5: And we talk about it here a lot about how
• 33:55
  Speaker 5: the vote is the first step in your participation in
• 33:57
  Speaker 5: the democracy.
• 33:58
  Speaker 3: It's not the whole thing.
• 33:59
  Speaker 5: And I think this is an important thing that we
• 34:01
  Speaker 5: can all talk about as we're talking to young folks
• 34:04
  Speaker 5: about participating in this democracy. Yes, vote, but also continue
• 34:08
  Speaker 5: to participate beyond that vote.
• 34:09
  Speaker 3: Continue to show up.
• 34:11
  Speaker 5: And ask for the things that your community needs and
• 34:13
  Speaker 5: you needs from the folks that you.
• 34:14
  Speaker 3: Just helped elect. Participate all the time, not just on
• 34:18
  Speaker 3: election day.
• 34:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's powerful. So we've talked about how to frame
• 34:22
  Speaker 2: President Biden's accomplishments. Lavora, is there a way to talk
• 34:26
  Speaker 2: about the choice between how Biden and Trump will handle
• 34:28
  Speaker 2: economic issues over the next four years that you found
• 34:31
  Speaker 2: resonates with voters you've talked to and are trying to organize?
• 34:35
  Speaker 5: Yeah, I think one of the things that we do,
• 34:36
  Speaker 5: and President Biden and his team do this as well,
• 34:39
  Speaker 5: is remind them of the failures of the Trump administration.
• 34:42
  Speaker 5: I think that the distance between then and now causes
• 34:46
  Speaker 5: some folks to not quite remember. So we can do
• 34:48
  Speaker 5: a lot of looking back at what life was like
• 34:50
  Speaker 5: under the Trump administration, infrastructure week that went on and
• 34:53
  Speaker 5: on and on, and yet no infrastructure happened. But the
• 34:56
  Speaker 5: Biden-Harris administration has been able to make that happen. About
• 34:59
  Speaker 5: the COVID response and how that left people hungry and
• 35:03
  Speaker 5: some people dead, right? And that sort of going back
• 35:05
  Speaker 5: in time to remind folks of who he is, who
• 35:08
  Speaker 5: he was, and who he will be. And of course,
• 35:10
  Speaker 5: sharing the story of the work that the Biden administration
• 35:12
  Speaker 5: has done on behalf of folks to grow this economy,
• 35:16
  Speaker 5: to grow the infrastructure, to bring good paying jobs here,
• 35:19
  Speaker 5: to bring good paying union jobs to Michiganders and support
• 35:23
  Speaker 5: that sort of work that we're doing here in Michigan
• 35:24
  Speaker 5: and that our governor, our terrific governor and lieutenant governor
• 35:27
  Speaker 5: are doing here with partnership with Biden. It's a good
• 35:31
  Speaker 5: story to tell, but an important part of it is
• 35:33
  Speaker 5: to go back and remind people of who Donald Trump
• 35:35
  Speaker 5: was as president of the United States. He's got a
• 35:37
  Speaker 5: record and we need to remind folks of it.
• 35:39
  Speaker 2: Terrence, what about you? I mean, you know, the cliche
• 35:42
  Speaker 2: is that elections are about the future. And especially if
• 35:46
  Speaker 2: you're an incumbent president, you don't want the election to
• 35:49
  Speaker 2: be a referendum. You want it to be a choice.
• 35:51
  Speaker 2: I keep waiting for the Biden folks. And, you know,
• 35:55
  Speaker 2: I'm sure they'll do that this summer and into the
• 35:57
  Speaker 2: fall to sort of come out with like a proactive
• 36:00
  Speaker 2: agenda for the next four years. Do you think that's important?
• 36:04
  Speaker 2: to some of these voters? Or do you think right
• 36:07
  Speaker 2: now we're sort of building a story that talks like
• 36:09
  Speaker 2: what LeVar was just talking about of, all right, this
• 36:12
  Speaker 2: is what Biden accomplished. This is what Trump did during
• 36:15
  Speaker 2: his four years. And that's the choice. Or when do
• 36:18
  Speaker 2: you think it starts moving forward?
• 36:20
  Speaker 6: Yeah, you know, I've been torn here because, you know,
• 36:23
  Speaker 6: the voters that I'm laser focused on are those cynical, drop-off,
• 36:29
  Speaker 6: low propensity, less engaged voters, right? And for some of them,
• 36:33
  Speaker 6: that we are going to have to demonstrate progress on
• 36:36
  Speaker 6: the last four years before we make promises for the
• 36:39
  Speaker 6: next four years. And so that's, I think that is
• 36:43
  Speaker 6: the campaign and the president's number one priority right now
• 36:46
  Speaker 6: is demonstrate the progress.
• 36:48
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 36:49
  Speaker 6: Connect them to the progress. Specifically on the economy, you know,
• 36:53
  Speaker 6: we've talked about this, John, that this is a cost
• 36:57
  Speaker 6: election as much as it's an economy election. Economy means
• 37:00
  Speaker 6: a lot of things to a lot of people. What
• 37:02
  Speaker 6: voters mean when they say economy in this election overwhelmingly
• 37:06
  Speaker 6: is cost. And that's why some of the indicators like
• 37:08
  Speaker 6: job creation and stock market, some of that isn't resonating
• 37:12
  Speaker 6: because the cost is still too damn high.
• 37:14
  Speaker 4: And so we do. And I think that this administration has.
• 37:17
  Speaker 6: A story to tell on cost about how they've brought
• 37:19
  Speaker 6: down cost of prescription drugs and brought down cost of
• 37:23
  Speaker 6: college education and brought down cost of housing and continue
• 37:27
  Speaker 6: to challenge airlines and junk fees. And that's the cost
• 37:30
  Speaker 6: story that we have to continue to lean into. But
• 37:34
  Speaker 6: the other thing that we have to do in the
• 37:35
  Speaker 6: economy and that we've seen the president and the vice
• 37:38
  Speaker 6: president who's on an economic tour right now is moving
• 37:41
  Speaker 6: from discussing the economy as poverty reduction and discussing it
• 37:46
  Speaker 6: more as wealth creation. And that has also been a
• 37:49
  Speaker 6: part of the appeal of Donald Trump is that they
• 37:51
  Speaker 6: think that he will make them rich. Whether there's any
• 37:53
  Speaker 6: evidence of that or not, a part of that. And
• 37:57
  Speaker 6: we do have a story to tell there about what
• 37:59
  Speaker 6: this administration has done to increase black wealth by 60 percent,
• 38:04
  Speaker 6: to increase black businesses from 5 percent to 11 percent,
• 38:07
  Speaker 6: that we have to start talking about more of those
• 38:10
  Speaker 6: things as well.
• 38:11
  Speaker 2: Lavor, one last thing on Biden's Morehouse speech before we
• 38:13
  Speaker 2: move on. A handful of students turned their back to
• 38:15
  Speaker 2: Biden during his remarks to protest his handling of the
• 38:18
  Speaker 2: war in Gaza. In Michigan, of course, you guys had 100,000
• 38:21
  Speaker 2: people vote uncommitted on primary day. Just this week, the
• 38:24
  Speaker 2: NAACP called on Biden to halt arms deliveries to Israel.
• 38:28
  Speaker 2: How much of an issue is Gaza among voters in Michigan?
• 38:32
  Speaker 2: And what have you found is the most effective way
• 38:34
  Speaker 2: to talk about the war with 2020 Biden voters who
• 38:37
  Speaker 2: may now be upset with the president's handling of it?
• 38:40
  Speaker 5: It is definitely an issue. We're keeping an eye on it.
• 38:42
  Speaker 5: We talk about it a lot here in Michigan, of course.
• 38:46
  Speaker 5: We've been doing what we call listening sessions, right? I
• 38:48
  Speaker 5: am not the president of the United States and I'm
• 38:50
  Speaker 5: also not a foreign policy expert, but what I am
• 38:52
  Speaker 5: is an ear and occasionally a voice.
• 38:55
  Speaker 3: So we are listening to the communities that want.
• 38:58
  Speaker 5: To talk to us about this issue and making sure
• 39:00
  Speaker 5: that they know that we hear them. and that we're
• 39:02
  Speaker 5: passing their information and their messages on to the president
• 39:04
  Speaker 5: and the president hears them. And I think that's where
• 39:07
  Speaker 5: we have to be right now as a party while
• 39:09
  Speaker 5: the president does the foreign policy work he needs to do.
• 39:12
  Speaker 5: And we have seen him move. We've seen his language change.
• 39:15
  Speaker 5: We've seen his policies move. And I think that a
• 39:18
  Speaker 5: lot of people are seeing hope in that movement, but
• 39:20
  Speaker 5: also people's lives.
• 39:22
  Speaker 3: Have been affected. People's families have died.
• 39:24
  Speaker 5: This is serious and we take it very seriously and
• 39:27
  Speaker 5: we hurt with them and we cry with them. But
• 39:30
  Speaker 5: what I can't do is fix it because I'm not
• 39:31
  Speaker 5: a foreign policy expert and I'm also not the president.
• 39:34
  Speaker 5: But what I can do is remind folks how important
• 39:36
  Speaker 5: it is to continue to express your voice and that
• 39:38
  Speaker 5: we're listening. And, you know, that First Amendment right to
• 39:41
  Speaker 5: protest is absolutely yours. And I respect your use of it.
• 39:45
  Speaker 5: And as long as you're doing so without harming anyone
• 39:48
  Speaker 5: or harming anything, Please continue to use it and we'll
• 39:51
  Speaker 5: continue to pass the message on to the president.
• 39:52
  Speaker 3: And I know he's listening.
• 39:54
  Speaker 2: I think that's a really thoughtful answer. I wish more
• 39:56
  Speaker 2: people online would give answers like that.
• 39:58
  Speaker 3: I agree. I wish they would.
• 40:14
  Speaker 2: I want to ask you both about an issue that
• 40:16
  Speaker 2: certainly feels like it should be important to voters. A
• 40:18
  Speaker 2: jury finding Donald Trump guilty of 34 felony counts. And
• 40:23
  Speaker 2: yet Trump and his campaign see this as a development
• 40:26
  Speaker 2: that may help him with voters, particularly black voters. Here's
• 40:30
  Speaker 2: an Axios headline from a few days after the verdict.
• 40:32
  Speaker 2: Guilty verdict fuels Trump's push for black voters. Quote Senator
• 40:36
  Speaker 2: Tim Scott, potential V.P., saying, quote, as an African-American born
• 40:40
  Speaker 2: and raised in the Deep South who had concerns about
• 40:43
  Speaker 2: our justice system as it relates to race, I'm now
• 40:45
  Speaker 2: seeing it play out from a partisan perspective. The campaign
• 40:48
  Speaker 2: has also been sharing clips like this from, this one's
• 40:51
  Speaker 2: from The Breakfast Club, which is a wildly popular black
• 40:54
  Speaker 2: radio show.
• 40:55
  Speaker 4: Good morning, brother.
• 40:56
  Speaker 2: Peace, TK.
• 40:57
  Speaker 7: What up, Charlamagne? What up, Jeff?
• 40:58
  Speaker 3: What up?
• 40:59
  Speaker 2: What's your thoughts, brother?
• 41:00
  Speaker 7: Well, I'm going to tell you, man, I feel like
• 41:02
  Speaker 7: Trump's got Dave dirty. I don't trust the system at all.
• 41:06
  Speaker 7: You know what I mean? Especially being through the system.
• 41:08
  Speaker 7: I'm going to say what I called yesterday about that
• 41:09
  Speaker 7: dog situation. So it's like after you've been railroaded by
• 41:13
  Speaker 7: this system and you see that when you walk in
• 41:15
  Speaker 7: the courtroom, they want you to be guilty. You're going
• 41:17
  Speaker 7: to be guilty. I don't got no trust in that
• 41:19
  Speaker 7: process at all. You know what I mean? I rock
• 41:22
  Speaker 7: with Trump. I feel like that. He's way better than Biden.
• 41:25
  Speaker 7: You know, Biden, I can't stand him. Biden the devil, man.
• 41:28
  Speaker 7: Biden the same one. Y'all remember them policies from the 90s?
• 41:32
  Speaker 7: I know y'all got.
• 41:34
  Speaker 2: Family members that were victims of that. The 86 mandatory
• 41:37
  Speaker 2: minimum citizen, 88 crack law, 94 crime bill. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
• 41:41
  Speaker 2: for sure. So I don't know if that's necessarily someone
• 41:45
  Speaker 2: who was undecided before the verdict. But Terrence, do you
• 41:48
  Speaker 2: think that that's sort of an isolated kind of comment
• 41:52
  Speaker 2: or does it reflect, does any of it, any of
• 41:55
  Speaker 2: that comment reflect a sentiment you've heard in focus groups
• 41:58
  Speaker 2: from voters?
• 41:59
  Speaker 6: So I actually spoke to black voters in Florida the
• 42:02
  Speaker 6: night of the conviction. And first I had to break
• 42:05
  Speaker 6: the news to them. While it was the only thing
• 42:08
  Speaker 6: that any of us were covering or observing, none of
• 42:11
  Speaker 6: them even knew it happened. And I think that that
• 42:14
  Speaker 6: is the, that's my biggest takeaway from this verdict is
• 42:17
  Speaker 6: that it's simply not as impactful as many of us
• 42:20
  Speaker 6: pundits and operatives believe it is. There just wasn't a
• 42:24
  Speaker 6: lot of new information they knew about Stormy Daniels. They
• 42:27
  Speaker 6: knew about Trump's legal issues. You know, being indicted 109
• 42:31
  Speaker 6: times or being convicted 34 times, it just ain't that
• 42:34
  Speaker 6: much of a difference to people. And the other thing
• 42:36
  Speaker 6: that I didn't suspect was that it wasn't that unprecedented, right?
• 42:42
  Speaker 6: That their observation is that there are always criminals in
• 42:45
  Speaker 6: the political system. There's been mayors and governors and all
• 42:48
  Speaker 6: kinds of folks that have been convicted. It's unprecedented to
• 42:51
  Speaker 6: us that it's never been a president, but that just
• 42:53
  Speaker 6: wasn't that unprecedented to them, that there's There was precedent
• 42:56
  Speaker 6: for that. Now, the last thing I'll say is what
• 42:59
  Speaker 6: I heard that young man say on The Breakfast Club.
• 43:02
  Speaker 6: I do think that there is a there there. Not
• 43:06
  Speaker 6: in that Donald Trump can convince black people that he's
• 43:10
  Speaker 6: like them because he's been convicted. But there is the
• 43:15
  Speaker 6: possibility that he can appeal to people who think the
• 43:19
  Speaker 6: system is already broken.
• 43:20
  Speaker 2: That's what I was wondering.
• 43:21
  Speaker 6: That's what I heard that young man say. The system
• 43:23
  Speaker 6: doesn't work for me. And look at that, the system
• 43:27
  Speaker 6: doesn't even work for someone like him. And he's rich
• 43:29
  Speaker 6: and powerful and white, so it's definitely not going to
• 43:32
  Speaker 6: work for me. You know, that line of messaging I
• 43:36
  Speaker 6: do think could be more effective than, look, I'm like
• 43:38
  Speaker 6: you because I have a mugshot.
• 43:39
  Speaker 4: That's crazy and insulting.
• 43:42
  Speaker 2: LaVora, how are people responding to the verdict in Michigan?
• 43:45
  Speaker 3: It is not something folks are talking about. We care
• 43:49
  Speaker 3: about it. We talk about it.
• 43:50
  Speaker 5: But the voters, I think, have not yet they're just
• 43:53
  Speaker 5: not paying attention. Let's remember, of course, it's June. A
• 43:56
  Speaker 5: lot of the voters are not paying attention to all
• 43:58
  Speaker 5: of this yet, but they certainly have not paid attention
• 44:02
  Speaker 5: to that. I will say, I think that there's, because
• 44:05
  Speaker 5: the system has been broken for folks who look like
• 44:07
  Speaker 5: us for a very long time, whichever way that verdict
• 44:10
  Speaker 5: came out, that would have been someone's response, right? Because,
• 44:14
  Speaker 5: Because if he had been found not guilty 34 times,
• 44:17
  Speaker 5: it would have absolutely been because of his position in
• 44:20
  Speaker 5: the system, because of his white, rich, white man-ness. And
• 44:25
  Speaker 5: so I think that that cuts both ways in terms
• 44:28
  Speaker 5: of what that conviction means or would have meant if
• 44:31
  Speaker 5: it hadn't happened. But in the end, I think, you know,
• 44:34
  Speaker 5: people need to think about whether or not they want
• 44:36
  Speaker 5: to convict a president. But that is not a conversation
• 44:41
  Speaker 5: folks are really having right now. Folks are very focused
• 44:44
  Speaker 5: on what's happening in their own lives, right? Not what's
• 44:46
  Speaker 5: happening to Donald Trump. And that's part of our job
• 44:49
  Speaker 5: is to get them focused on Donald Trump. And we
• 44:52
  Speaker 5: will get them there.
• 44:52
  Speaker 3: It is June.
• 44:53
  Speaker 5: We've got some time to be talking about it. And
• 44:55
  Speaker 5: we are absolutely going to be talking about the convicted
• 44:57
  Speaker 5: felon who's running for president.
• 44:58
  Speaker 3: But I don't think folks are thinking about it right now, frankly.
• 45:02
  Speaker 2: It's such a good point. And this is what I've
• 45:04
  Speaker 2: been thinking on this, is that to the extent that
• 45:07
  Speaker 2: people will care about this, it's the idea that there's
• 45:12
  Speaker 2: one set of rules for Donald Trump and another set
• 45:14
  Speaker 2: of rules for everyone else. And back to our conversation
• 45:17
  Speaker 2: about Joe Biden, defender of democracy, I think one of
• 45:20
  Speaker 2: the biggest challenges for Joe Biden or really any Democratic
• 45:23
  Speaker 2: president in this political environment is they're being asked to
• 45:27
  Speaker 2: defend democracy and defend our institutions at the very time
• 45:32
  Speaker 2: when trust and faith in our institutions is at its lowest.
• 45:35
  Speaker 2: And so even though that is an incredibly important task
• 45:40
  Speaker 2: right now, you're the defender of something that's very unpopular,
• 45:43
  Speaker 2: whether that's the criminal justice system, whether that's the economic system,
• 45:46
  Speaker 2: whether that's the political system. And I wonder how Democrats
• 45:52
  Speaker 2: and Joe Biden sort of navigate that at this time
• 45:56
  Speaker 2: of increased cynicism. And sort of there's so many low
• 46:00
  Speaker 2: trust voters. And that's particularly true in the Black community,
• 46:04
  Speaker 2: in the Latino community, with young people, with sort of
• 46:06
  Speaker 2: all the groups of voters that Democrats are having trouble with.
• 46:10
  Speaker 5: You know, I think Terrence gave us a clue here
• 46:13
  Speaker 5: when he told us that folks need to acknowledge that
• 46:16
  Speaker 5: the system doesn't work the same for everybody. We've got
• 46:19
  Speaker 5: to step into those shoes. And frankly, messengers who look
• 46:22
  Speaker 5: like us are better messengers for that than some other folks.
• 46:25
  Speaker 5: But we've got to be honest about the truth about
• 46:29
  Speaker 5: the reality.
• 46:29
  Speaker 3: When I talk about how.
• 46:31
  Speaker 5: Life is a little different for me because I was
• 46:32
  Speaker 5: born with this color skin than it is for some
• 46:34
  Speaker 5: of my counterparts who are state party chairs in other places,
• 46:37
  Speaker 5: that's real and people get that. And that's the kind
• 46:40
  Speaker 5: of conversation that we need to have. And we need
• 46:42
  Speaker 5: to be using messengers who can have that conversation, who
• 46:44
  Speaker 5: can acknowledge the reality of life as a person of
• 46:47
  Speaker 5: color in this country and acknowledge the reality that we're
• 46:50
  Speaker 5: not there and that there's so much that still needs
• 46:53
  Speaker 5: to be fixed. And then, of course, segue directly into
• 46:56
  Speaker 5: it ain't going to get fixed by Donald Trump.
• 46:57
  Speaker 2: That's right.
• 46:58
  Speaker 5: But you know who can fix it is if we
• 47:00
  Speaker 5: return Biden and Harris to the White House. It's that
• 47:02
  Speaker 5: kind of and maybe we can't say they can fix it,
• 47:04
  Speaker 5: but they can absolutely work on it. They will absolutely
• 47:06
  Speaker 5: be on your side. We spend a lot of time
• 47:08
  Speaker 5: talking about how they have our backs. And we need
• 47:11
  Speaker 5: people to understand that they do indeed have our backs
• 47:13
  Speaker 5: and they will continue to have our backs.
• 47:15
  Speaker 3: When we need them to. And when we even we
• 47:17
  Speaker 3: don't know we need them to.
• 47:20
  Speaker 2: Last couple of questions. Proof points. Terrence, I hear you
• 47:24
  Speaker 2: talk about proof points a lot. And considering the voters
• 47:26
  Speaker 2: you guys have been talking to and specifically undecided black
• 47:30
  Speaker 2: voters who probably tend to be younger, maybe tend to
• 47:32
  Speaker 2: be a little bit more male on the Biden-Harris record
• 47:37
  Speaker 2: of accomplishment. What tend to be the proof points that
• 47:40
  Speaker 2: resonate most with voters? Terrence?
• 47:45
  Speaker 6: Look, I've been asking this question in focus groups, especially
• 47:49
  Speaker 6: from voters that express frustration that nothing's been done. My
• 47:52
  Speaker 6: immediate probe is what did you expect to happen that
• 47:55
  Speaker 6: hasn't happened? And the list that they give us is
• 47:59
  Speaker 6: a list of unawareness. It's student loans. despite him forgiving
• 48:06
  Speaker 6: more student loans than any president in history.
• 48:08
  Speaker 4: In fact, I think he's the student loan president.
• 48:10
  Speaker 6: You know, it's criminal justice reform because he hasn't passed
• 48:14
  Speaker 6: the George Floyd Police Reform Act, despite, you know, appointing
• 48:19
  Speaker 6: 100 black women to federal benches, banning the no-knock warrants
• 48:24
  Speaker 6: that would have saved Breonna Taylor's life and the chokeholds
• 48:26
  Speaker 6: that would have saved George Floyd's life and implementing mandatory
• 48:30
  Speaker 6: body cameras. In fact, he might be the criminal justice
• 48:33
  Speaker 6: reform president. It's climate change that he hasn't made enough
• 48:37
  Speaker 6: progress on, despite reentering into the Paris Climate Agreement and
• 48:42
  Speaker 6: making the largest investment in climate change in American history,
• 48:45
  Speaker 6: in the world's history.
• 48:47
  Speaker 4: He might be the climate change president.
• 48:49
  Speaker 6: And so what they are the most frustrated about are,
• 48:53
  Speaker 6: in fact, the areas in which he's made the most progress.
• 48:56
  Speaker 6: And that's a gap in communication. I think we have
• 49:01
  Speaker 6: some time to close that gap, and we will hopefully...
• 49:03
  Speaker 6: We surely have the resources to close that gap. We
• 49:06
  Speaker 6: just have to prioritize and get in front of the
• 49:08
  Speaker 6: voters that need to hear it.
• 49:10
  Speaker 2: LaVora, what about you?
• 49:11
  Speaker 5: I think Terrence has just ticked off that this is
• 49:14
  Speaker 5: my job, right? Telling that story that Terrence just told.
• 49:16
  Speaker 5: And it is absolutely true. Those are the things that
• 49:18
  Speaker 5: folks say. And then when you can answer with that happened,
• 49:22
  Speaker 5: sometimes I get a quizzical look on the face and
• 49:25
  Speaker 5: sometimes I get sort of a shaking of the head, like, nope,
• 49:27
  Speaker 5: that didn't happen.
• 49:28
  Speaker 3: And yeah, it actually did, right? I can show you,
• 49:31
  Speaker 3: we've got receipts. But Terrence is right.
• 49:33
  Speaker 5: Our need is to make sure that we are telling
• 49:36
  Speaker 5: the story in the places where the folks who need
• 49:38
  Speaker 5: to hear it can hear it. And this is where
• 49:41
  Speaker 5: I say things like TV ads might not be the way, folks.
• 49:45
  Speaker 5: And so we need to be talking to people in
• 49:47
  Speaker 5: the places where they are and not necessarily in the
• 49:50
  Speaker 5: old school places that we're accustomed to communicating. And that's
• 49:53
  Speaker 5: my charge to everybody. Like, let's find these young folks
• 49:56
  Speaker 5: where they are and have these conversations with them. And
• 49:59
  Speaker 5: let's hire a bunch of young Black men and women
• 50:02
  Speaker 5: to go have those conversations with these folks all over
• 50:04
  Speaker 5: this country.
• 50:05
  Speaker 2: On the other side, what are some of the most
• 50:07
  Speaker 2: persuasive arguments or proof points about Donald Trump that give
• 50:11
  Speaker 2: people pause about another four years of Trump?
• 50:14
  Speaker 5: I think reminding folks of the things that have come
• 50:17
  Speaker 5: out of Donald Trump's mouth about Black people specifically, about
• 50:21
  Speaker 5: people of color in general, about immigration and immigrants, all
• 50:25
  Speaker 5: of those things give people pause, all of the hateful
• 50:29
  Speaker 5: rhetoric that has come, the reminders about the things that
• 50:33
  Speaker 5: didn't happen during that administration that he promised folks. Like
• 50:36
  Speaker 5: here in Michigan, he stood in Michigan and promised that
• 50:39
  Speaker 5: he was going to save the autos, he was going
• 50:41
  Speaker 5: to bring jobs back. And instead, he allowed jobs to
• 50:43
  Speaker 5: leave the state like never before. A promise made, but
• 50:47
  Speaker 5: not a promise kept. Those are the kinds of things
• 50:49
  Speaker 5: that we can and will continue to remind folks of
• 50:51
  Speaker 5: and that resonate with folks.
• 50:52
  Speaker 3: Like, oh, right, that's true. He didn't do any of that.
• 50:55
  Speaker 3: But you know who did? And you know who did
• 50:57
  Speaker 3: come to Michigan and walk a line with union workers?
• 51:00
  Speaker 3: Joe Biden.
• 51:02
  Speaker 6: You know, John, one thing I know that is not
• 51:05
  Speaker 6: disqualifying of Donald Trump, we've known this since 2016, and
• 51:08
  Speaker 6: I hope that Democrats don't waste money on this messaging,
• 51:11
  Speaker 6: and that's racism.
• 51:13
  Speaker 4: It is just not disqualifying. I know that it's counterintuitive.
• 51:16
  Speaker 6: Black folks care a lot about racism, but they are
• 51:19
  Speaker 6: not disqualifying Donald Trump because of racism because it's expected.
• 51:23
  Speaker 4: It's built into the system, right? I hear it in
• 51:26
  Speaker 4: focus groups all the time. They're all racist.
• 51:28
  Speaker 6: The system is racist. So they're not going to disqualify
• 51:31
  Speaker 6: him because he's racist. The difference is, though, while his
• 51:35
  Speaker 6: racism is not disqualifying, we are finding that the.
• 51:38
  Speaker 4: Impacts of that racism is disqualifying. Racial violence, right?
• 51:43
  Speaker 6: Black folks ain't going to tolerate Proud Boys and Oath
• 51:46
  Speaker 6: Keepers standing back and standing by and promoting political and
• 51:50
  Speaker 6: racial violence. It's, you know, not just his rhetoric about immigration,
• 51:55
  Speaker 6: but it's those kids in cages.
• 51:57
  Speaker 4: Black folks ain't tolerating that.
• 51:59
  Speaker 7: It is.
• 52:00
  Speaker 6: attacks on DEI programs that we just saw last week
• 52:04
  Speaker 6: with the fearless fund ruling that determined that black people
• 52:07
  Speaker 6: can't even, you know, use their own money to increase
• 52:12
  Speaker 6: venture capital towards black women, that all of those impacts,
• 52:16
  Speaker 6: those programs and policies that will put black bodies in danger,
• 52:21
  Speaker 6: that will reverse the progress that's been made. That's what
• 52:24
  Speaker 6: we have to remind them of, not just that he
• 52:26
  Speaker 6: like says bad things, but that when he says those
• 52:29
  Speaker 6: bad things, we get hurt.
• 52:32
  Speaker 2: Uh, last question for every episode I'm doing this one.
• 52:36
  Speaker 7: All right.
• 52:36
  Speaker 2: So for you guys, say you have a younger black Biden,
• 52:41
  Speaker 2: 2020 voter in your life, who's not sure they want
• 52:44
  Speaker 2: to vote for him again. This is in the cynics category.
• 52:48
  Speaker 2: You have a few minutes to persuade this person to
• 52:50
  Speaker 2: get out and vote for Biden. What do you say?
• 52:52
  Speaker 3: Terrence?
• 52:55
  Speaker 6: Uh, so listen, um, As far as I can tell,
• 52:59
  Speaker 6: and through all the research I've done, this administration, because
• 53:03
  Speaker 6: of the votes of people of color, because we voted
• 53:05
  Speaker 6: together and marched together and protested together, we are beginning
• 53:09
  Speaker 6: to see the progress that we need. We are beginning
• 53:11
  Speaker 6: to see the material difference that we have seen Black
• 53:15
  Speaker 6: wealth increase and Black incarceration rates decrease. We are seeing
• 53:20
  Speaker 6: Black poverty decrease and Black home ownership increase. While the
• 53:25
  Speaker 6: job is not done, the progress is being made and
• 53:28
  Speaker 6: that progress is only possible because of you and that
• 53:31
  Speaker 6: progress can only continue because of you.
• 53:32
  Speaker 2: That's good. LaVara?
• 53:34
  Speaker 3: That's really good. I would lean in there.
• 53:36
  Speaker 5: I would also lean in, frankly, on his vice president.
• 53:40
  Speaker 5: I would remind folks that he has standing beside him
• 53:43
  Speaker 5: and behind him a strong, smart Black woman. And that
• 53:47
  Speaker 5: in a world that is as messed up as this
• 53:49
  Speaker 5: one is, we know that it's Black women who carry
• 53:51
  Speaker 5: us on our shoulders. And here's a Black woman carrying
• 53:53
  Speaker 5: you on her shoulders. And you need to support her
• 53:56
  Speaker 5: and get this done.
• 53:57
  Speaker 2: Terrence Woodbury and Lavora Barnes, thank you so much for
• 54:00
  Speaker 2: chatting with me. This was very instructive. And I'm just
• 54:04
  Speaker 2: so thankful for all of your very, very smart thoughts
• 54:07
  Speaker 2: on all of this. Thank you so much.
• 54:09
  Speaker 3: Thanks for having us.
• 54:17
  Speaker 2: What stuck with me after talking to Lavora and Terrence
• 54:20
  Speaker 2: is the huge gap between us political junkies and most
• 54:24
  Speaker 2: normal people. Not just in terms of what we've heard
• 54:27
  Speaker 2: and know about Joe Biden, Donald Trump, and various political issues,
• 54:31
  Speaker 2: but in how we think about democracy and politics and
• 54:34
  Speaker 2: the act of voting itself. It's easier to defend a
• 54:38
  Speaker 2: system that has mostly worked for you. It's harder to
• 54:41
  Speaker 2: even participate in a system that hasn't always worked for you.
• 54:46
  Speaker 2: And if we want to convince more people to give
• 54:48
  Speaker 2: that system a chance, we need to meet them where
• 54:51
  Speaker 2: they are. Lavora talked about having conversations in places where
• 54:55
  Speaker 2: politics aren't usually discussed, like a Michigan nightclub. John Taylor
• 54:59
  Speaker 2: and the Black Male Initiative are trying something similar in Georgia.
• 55:04
  Speaker 1: When we talk about grassroots organizing, what we really mean
• 55:07
  Speaker 1: is direct, deep relational engagement on the ground. That is
• 55:12
  Speaker 1: going to places that most folks have written off. It
• 55:15
  Speaker 1: is going into jails. It is going into youth detention centers.
• 55:18
  Speaker 1: It is using the platforms and mechanisms that are germane
• 55:22
  Speaker 1: to our culture and our people and not shying away
• 55:25
  Speaker 1: from political conversations in those spaces.
• 55:27
  Speaker 4: So will we hit nightclubs?
• 55:29
  Speaker 1: Yes, indeed.
• 55:30
  Speaker 4: Strip clubs?
• 55:31
  Speaker 1: It's a possibility. Show up at your local neighborhood grocery store.
• 55:34
  Speaker 1: I'm going to be there, too, because that's where the
• 55:37
  Speaker 1: real work happens.
• 55:41
  Speaker 5: Yep.
• 55:41
  Speaker 2: He said strip clubs, first for everything here on The Wilderness.
• 55:45
  Speaker 2: But what may be even more important than where these
• 55:48
  Speaker 2: conversations take place is how we approach them. John has
• 55:52
  Speaker 2: some profound thoughts on this that I want to leave
• 55:55
  Speaker 2: you with.
• 55:57
  Speaker 4: There's always three things.
• 55:58
  Speaker 1: So thing number one is simple.
• 56:00
  Speaker 4: Give grace.
• 56:02
  Speaker 1: Don't assume or expect that you know what other people
• 56:05
  Speaker 1: are going through. As much as you respect yourself and
• 56:08
  Speaker 1: your ideas, respect the fact that other people don't agree
• 56:12
  Speaker 1: with you and that they don't have to.
• 56:14
  Speaker 4: And it's not our job.
• 56:15
  Speaker 1: To convince them to do the right thing and go
• 56:19
  Speaker 1: vote because we say so. But it is our job
• 56:22
  Speaker 1: to work with them and show them how using every
• 56:25
  Speaker 1: tool in the toolbox for their liberation is something they
• 56:29
  Speaker 1: might want to consider. Number two is that all of
• 56:32
  Speaker 1: this work, when it's said and done, is a drop
• 56:36
  Speaker 1: in the bucket. Voting is the beginning. It is your
• 56:42
  Speaker 1: entry fee into the show. But there's a lot of
• 56:46
  Speaker 1: work to do to make the show happen. So your
• 56:49
  Speaker 1: civic participation, your volunteer hours, your recruitment of other folks,
• 56:54
  Speaker 1: spending time, making sure that people understand not just who
• 56:59
  Speaker 1: to vote for, But what voting for those folks means.
• 57:04
  Speaker 1: And then number three is it starts with love and
• 57:06
  Speaker 1: it ends with love.
• 57:07
  Speaker 7: Right.
• 57:08
  Speaker 1: I can disagree with you all day long. I don't
• 57:13
  Speaker 1: care what you think. I care that you think. And
• 57:18
  Speaker 1: when we talk about getting black men to vote. Most
• 57:23
  Speaker 1: of it is just listening to what they think and feel,
• 57:26
  Speaker 1: not trying to shut them down, not trying to tell
• 57:29
  Speaker 1: them they're wrong. And no matter what the outcome is,
• 57:33
  Speaker 1: I need you to love them at the end of
• 57:35
  Speaker 1: the day. Because let's be honest, I am proud to
• 57:40
  Speaker 1: be a black man. I will sing it to the hills.
• 57:42
  Speaker 1: If somebody were to wake me up tomorrow and say,
• 57:45
  Speaker 1: you can choose any race, any gender, you can start over.
• 57:50
  Speaker 1: I'd still be right here. I love being me. But
• 57:54
  Speaker 1: I also know the pressure, the trauma, the ongoing stress
• 57:59
  Speaker 1: that comes with walking through this world in this skin.
• 58:04
  Speaker 1: So when you see someone who is riddled with trauma
• 58:10
  Speaker 1: and pain, self-medicating.
• 58:13
  Speaker 4: In whatever way they choose, don't write them off.
• 58:16
  Speaker 1: Give them love. They are someone's son. They are someone's brother,
• 58:22
  Speaker 1: someone's father, someone's uncle. They are someone's baby. Most of all,
• 58:29
  Speaker 1: they are human. And they deserve your love and respect.
• 58:36
  Speaker 2: Now that's some of the best advice I've ever heard.
• 58:40
  Speaker 2: Not just about how to talk to Black voters. Not
• 58:43
  Speaker 2: just about how to talk to all voters. About how
• 58:46
  Speaker 2: to talk to and treat and see other human beings.
• 58:51
  Speaker 2: And if we could all do just a little bit
• 58:53
  Speaker 2: more of that, I'm pretty sure a better, saner, kinder
• 58:57
  Speaker 2: politics would follow. We'll see you next time on The Wilderness.
• 59:09
  Speaker 2: The Wilderness is a production of Crooked Media. It's written
• 59:12
  Speaker 2: and hosted by me, Jon Favreau. Our senior producer and
• 59:15
  Speaker 2: editor is Andrea B.
• 59:17
  Speaker 4: Scott.
• 59:18
  Speaker 2: Austin Fisher is our producer. And Farah Safari is our
• 59:21
  Speaker 2: associate producer. Sound design by Vassilis Fotopoulos. Music by Marty Fowler.
• 59:27
  Speaker 2: Charlotte Landis and Jordan Cantor sound engineered the show. Thanks
• 59:30
  Speaker 2: to Katie Long, Reed Cherlin, Matt DeGratte, and Madeline Herringer
• 59:34
  Speaker 2: for production support. To our video team, Rachel Gajewski, Joseph Dutra,
• 59:38
  Speaker 2: Chris Russell, Molly Lobel, and David Tolles, who filmed and
• 59:41
  Speaker 2: edited the show. If the wilderness has inspired you to
• 59:44
  Speaker 2: get involved, head on over to votesaveamerica.com slash 2024 to
• 59:48
  Speaker 2: sign up and find a volunteer shift near you.