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Transcript

Rugby Direct - Episode 147 · Rugby Direct

• 0:09
  Speaker 1: You're listening to a podcast from News Talks. It be
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: follow this and our wide range of podcasts now on iHeartRadio.
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: Yet inside the game from every angle. It's Rugby Direct
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: with Elliott Smith, powered by News Talks.
• 0:24
  Speaker 2: It be Welcome into Rugby Direct, power by Excess Solutions,
• 0:27
  Speaker 2: elevating you and your business to a high level. Rugby
• 0:32
  Speaker 2: Direct Back again for another week, this time from Chili
• 0:35
  Speaker 2: Old Churin where it's going to snow later in the
• 0:38
  Speaker 2: week as the All Blacks prepared to bring down the
• 0:41
  Speaker 2: curtain on the.
• 0:42
  Speaker 3: Twenty twenty four season.
• 0:43
  Speaker 2: But first plenty to get stuck into from the weekend
• 0:46
  Speaker 2: that was, and a great pleasure to be joined again
• 0:49
  Speaker 2: by Liam Napier Chi Swarts, writer rugby correspondent for The
• 0:53
  Speaker 2: New Zealand Hero with Liam.
• 0:54
  Speaker 3: Greetings and welcome back to another edition of Rugby Direct.
• 0:59
  Speaker 4: Chou Charles Eliotto. Great great to get you and very
• 1:05
  Speaker 4: special for you to be in my homeland, so hope,
• 1:08
  Speaker 4: so and up some pasta and some vino and the
• 1:11
  Speaker 4: great the great people of Italy.
• 1:14
  Speaker 2: Yep, any touch, just let me know and I'll do
• 1:17
  Speaker 2: all this to match those look. I guess the All
• 1:21
  Speaker 2: Blacks dream of an end of year two, unbeaten is
• 1:25
  Speaker 2: over with that loss to France one point loss. Interesting
• 1:29
  Speaker 2: to have a couple of days to reflect on it. Liam,
• 1:32
  Speaker 2: how are you feeling.
• 1:32
  Speaker 3: After that defeat? Was it an All Black's victory that
• 1:35
  Speaker 3: got away.
• 1:37
  Speaker 5: One hundred per cent? Was Elliott's?
• 1:40
  Speaker 4: Look, I think this is their worst loss of the year,
• 1:42
  Speaker 4: to be honest, it's just so deflating because they were
• 1:47
  Speaker 4: the best team on the park and.
• 1:50
  Speaker 5: They blew it through a number of different factors.
• 1:53
  Speaker 4: If we start with I guess the first half and
• 1:55
  Speaker 4: how good the All Blacks were there. They're attacking intent,
• 2:00
  Speaker 4: their ball movements, the tri for Peter Luckeye was brilliant,
• 2:03
  Speaker 4: out of this world in terms of the off floads,
• 2:05
  Speaker 4: the support play, the pace that the All Blacks played with,
• 2:09
  Speaker 4: They could have got, could have would have should have
• 2:12
  Speaker 4: got more points for their dominance in the first half.
• 2:15
  Speaker 4: They scrum their their lineouts which got steals of the French.
• 2:20
  Speaker 4: They really were all over them in that first half,
• 2:23
  Speaker 4: and then they conspired to sort of throw it away,
• 2:28
  Speaker 4: not all through their own doing. There were some real
• 2:31
  Speaker 4: frustrations with the officials, which I'm sure we'll touch on,
• 2:34
  Speaker 4: but the All Black's mistakes as well, whether it was
• 2:39
  Speaker 4: ball handling or kicking, and the failure to kick for
• 2:44
  Speaker 4: the corner and be real ruthless with chasing that match winning.
• 2:49
  Speaker 5: Try lets victory slip through the grass.
• 2:52
  Speaker 4: And it is frustrating because it does color the complexion
• 2:56
  Speaker 4: of this campaign for the All Blacks, because, as you mentioned,
• 2:59
  Speaker 4: a clean sweep, which was unthinkable from my perspective certainly
• 3:03
  Speaker 4: at the start of this tour, was there for the
• 3:05
  Speaker 4: taking and now it's gone and it really does shape
• 3:10
  Speaker 4: the narrative and change the outlook for when it is
• 3:15
  Speaker 4: time to reflect on the full campaign.
• 3:17
  Speaker 5: But yeah, the All Blacks were the better team. France
• 3:21
  Speaker 5: weren't at full strength.
• 3:22
  Speaker 4: This was a great opportunity to put another real stake
• 3:25
  Speaker 4: in the grounds and unfortunately it slipped away.
• 3:28
  Speaker 2: It did slip away, and the All Blacks were the
• 3:31
  Speaker 2: better team, certainly for the first forty minutes.
• 3:34
  Speaker 3: Anyway.
• 3:36
  Speaker 2: I think France came back into the game really well.
• 3:38
  Speaker 2: In fact, there was a little sign just before the
• 3:41
  Speaker 2: halftime break where they conceded. The All Blacks conceeded that
• 3:44
  Speaker 2: try to France, which wasn't necessarily against the run of play,
• 3:48
  Speaker 2: but it felt like a little bit soft from an
• 3:51
  Speaker 2: All Blacks perspective, given how hard they'd worked for their
• 3:54
  Speaker 2: points to basically can see one down the other end,
• 3:57
  Speaker 2: and then that attacking play just before the halftime break
• 4:01
  Speaker 2: with a building for a period, then from memory, the
• 4:03
  Speaker 2: ball spits out the back a little bit and they
• 4:05
  Speaker 2: lost their train of thought a little bit with the
• 4:08
  Speaker 2: halftime clock having ticked over, and then there was a
• 4:12
  Speaker 2: forty to forty five meta drop goal attent from Bowden
• 4:15
  Speaker 2: Barrett that came to nothing, and that was half time,
• 4:18
  Speaker 2: and it just felt like it wasn't quite ruthless enough
• 4:21
  Speaker 2: from the All Blacks in the first forty minutes.
• 4:23
  Speaker 3: And similar to last week Ireland.
• 4:26
  Speaker 2: In an Ireland, you know, France comes out strong in
• 4:28
  Speaker 2: the second spell, but not similar to Dublin. The All
• 4:31
  Speaker 2: Blacks couldn't wrestle back the momentum they did it in
• 4:35
  Speaker 2: Dublin really well, they couldn't do it. They had it
• 4:39
  Speaker 2: for a period of time. That bull goes to hands
• 4:41
  Speaker 2: out to Will Jordan and rather than being kicked ahead
• 4:45
  Speaker 2: and Louis Bielberi managers to score, and it felt like
• 4:50
  Speaker 2: that was the real swing of the game and the
• 4:52
  Speaker 2: All Blacks were chasing it from that point so you
• 4:55
  Speaker 2: look at it and go there are a couple of
• 4:57
  Speaker 2: warning signs potentially before halftime that maybe the All Blacks
• 5:01
  Speaker 2: didn't get enough reward for their first half dominance.
• 5:05
  Speaker 4: Yeah, indeed, And I think it was as big mo
• 5:08
  Speaker 4: that they let slip through their graphs. You know that
• 5:11
  Speaker 4: what they were doing so well in the first half
• 5:13
  Speaker 4: in terms of the pace, they controlled the pace and
• 5:17
  Speaker 4: tempo and the game was in their hands. Where in
• 5:21
  Speaker 4: the second half, I think it became a bit of
• 5:23
  Speaker 4: a grind, didn't it. Whether it was the All Black's
• 5:26
  Speaker 4: rock ball and their presentation and their cleanouts weren't accurate
• 5:31
  Speaker 4: or urgent enough, and that allowed France to get on top.
• 5:35
  Speaker 4: And I thought the Georgian referee, I've had some frustrations
• 5:40
  Speaker 4: with him before and I think it just becomes a
• 5:43
  Speaker 4: bit of a lottery there. But also just France were
• 5:46
  Speaker 4: able to put the All Blacks under pressure by slowing
• 5:49
  Speaker 4: the game by which allows their defense to set.
• 5:54
  Speaker 5: There was some handling issues from the All Blacks.
• 5:55
  Speaker 4: From memory, Will Jordan passed that went high, Caleb Clarks
• 5:59
  Speaker 4: bundled into touch, Rica Olwani drops one ball a sapphire
• 6:03
  Speaker 4: more and miss as a throw.
• 6:06
  Speaker 5: Cody Taylor gets pinged for a penalty at the mall.
• 6:09
  Speaker 4: Just the discipline started to go and France were just
• 6:14
  Speaker 4: able to get on top play their game. I thought
• 6:18
  Speaker 4: what France did really well is they went through the
• 6:21
  Speaker 4: middle of the All Blacks and that was through their
• 6:24
  Speaker 4: physical forward pack. I thought they got some pay for
• 6:27
  Speaker 4: that around the fringes, maybe the All blacksmiths. Sam Cain
• 6:32
  Speaker 4: just his defensive work there. But also, you know, we
• 6:36
  Speaker 4: do have to touch on the in my mind, if
• 6:43
  Speaker 4: it's easy in hindsight, isn't it to point the finger
• 6:46
  Speaker 4: at Scott Barret? And I don't think this is the soulary,
• 6:50
  Speaker 4: but I do think they had to go for the
• 6:51
  Speaker 4: line they had. Damian McKenzie came on and they kept
• 6:55
  Speaker 4: four second half penalties, three of those in the last
• 6:58
  Speaker 4: eighteen minutes.
• 6:59
  Speaker 5: Now, in my mind, if Sam White Locke or.
• 7:03
  Speaker 4: Ardie Severe as captain, I don't think there's any question
• 7:06
  Speaker 4: that they would have at least had one crack at
• 7:08
  Speaker 4: the line, a mall try put down a scrum where
• 7:11
  Speaker 4: they had dominance, just at least had one go at it.
• 7:15
  Speaker 4: And you know, I can understand the reasoning that you
• 7:19
  Speaker 4: look to get back down there again one point game,
• 7:21
  Speaker 4: you force a penalty and kick the winning goal. But
• 7:25
  Speaker 4: it just felt like at that moment in the match,
• 7:27
  Speaker 4: Sel Blacks needed to put the foot on the throat,
• 7:29
  Speaker 4: they needed to have a go and that was I
• 7:33
  Speaker 4: think that will be a real learning moment for Scott
• 7:36
  Speaker 4: Barres's Captaincy.
• 7:38
  Speaker 3: Yeah, let's hope it is. I think.
• 7:40
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it is easy to say in hindsight because you
• 7:43
  Speaker 2: know the score of the try, no one's going to
• 7:45
  Speaker 2: go back and go gee. I wish they've done it
• 7:47
  Speaker 2: in threes instead. But it felt like with the time
• 7:53
  Speaker 2: that was left, when McKenzie set himself up for that
• 7:55
  Speaker 2: last penalty goal, it would have been best set to
• 7:58
  Speaker 2: go for the corner and have for the attacking line
• 8:03
  Speaker 2: out inside the twenty two and set yourself up.
• 8:06
  Speaker 3: The line out. Muller had a little wobble bar spy
• 8:11
  Speaker 3: and large.
• 8:12
  Speaker 2: You know, he had a great game at double in
• 8:13
  Speaker 2: the week before, so you would have backed him to
• 8:16
  Speaker 2: get to the right target. Even if they didn't, you know,
• 8:17
  Speaker 2: France will have to presumably clear it outside the twenty two.
• 8:21
  Speaker 2: The All Blacks should get the ball still deep inside
• 8:23
  Speaker 2: French territory. So yeah, I think it was the wrong
• 8:26
  Speaker 2: call I actually liked Scott Barrett actually postgame saying, you
• 8:30
  Speaker 2: actually don't know if it was the right call or
• 8:31
  Speaker 2: on and he was torn, and he remained torn after
• 8:34
  Speaker 2: the game whether he made the right call in his head.
• 8:37
  Speaker 2: I think it is a learning moment for Scott Barrett.
• 8:41
  Speaker 2: And you know, maybe a little bit more ruthlessness required
• 8:44
  Speaker 2: from the All Blacks not only in that decision, but
• 8:47
  Speaker 2: across the eighty minutes and indeed perhaps even across the year.
• 8:51
  Speaker 2: Without wanting to verge too far into season review material
• 8:54
  Speaker 2: just yet with the game to go, but you know,
• 8:57
  Speaker 2: the ruthlessness that the All Blacks teams in the past
• 9:00
  Speaker 2: have had, just little bits missing from the team at
• 9:04
  Speaker 2: the moment. There's certainly plenty of attack, but an endeavor
• 9:07
  Speaker 2: just that ruthlessness in the twenty two and on attack
• 9:10
  Speaker 2: is missing at the moment.
• 9:13
  Speaker 4: That's right, and it stuck for them in the first
• 9:16
  Speaker 4: half those passes, but the French were able to slow
• 9:20
  Speaker 4: the pace, make it a grind and then just pounce
• 9:23
  Speaker 4: on the All Blacks mistakes and a couple of those
• 9:26
  Speaker 4: in particular that we need to touch on. You know,
• 9:29
  Speaker 4: Courtiers Lastima's performance off the bench as in the spotlights.
• 9:34
  Speaker 4: He got pained for taking too long at the ruck
• 9:37
  Speaker 4: trying to do a box kick, which was a fifty
• 9:43
  Speaker 4: to fifty decision. I don't think that was fairly policed
• 9:47
  Speaker 4: across the whole game. And then there was a tough
• 9:50
  Speaker 4: line out throw that he lost as well off the
• 9:56
  Speaker 4: top ball. And my question to you is do the
• 10:00
  Speaker 4: All Blacks need to be a wee bit more flexible
• 10:02
  Speaker 4: about the introduction of their bench because we talked last
• 10:07
  Speaker 4: week and I also wrote something that they have flipped
• 10:10
  Speaker 4: the script on their bench because they had the final
• 10:13
  Speaker 4: quarter fades and the Rugby Championship. But then we saw
• 10:16
  Speaker 4: it Twickenham and in Dublin the bench making a massive impact.
• 10:21
  Speaker 4: They went They went to the bench quite late in
• 10:22
  Speaker 4: this game. They only introduced the front rowers with about
• 10:26
  Speaker 4: eighteen minutes remaining.
• 10:28
  Speaker 5: Patrick Tuo Polocho was a wee bit before that.
• 10:30
  Speaker 4: But cam Roygate in particular, he's out playing one of,
• 10:34
  Speaker 4: if not the best players in the world in Anton DuPont,
• 10:36
  Speaker 4: playing out of his skin. Again, It's easy in hindsight,
• 10:41
  Speaker 4: isn't it to look back and say you shouldn't have
• 10:43
  Speaker 4: replaced him.
• 10:43
  Speaker 5: But what's what's your view on that?
• 10:45
  Speaker 3: Well, I thought it was early.
• 10:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I thought it was early when they substituted him,
• 10:49
  Speaker 2: given the way that he'd been playing, and didn't sound
• 10:51
  Speaker 2: like there are any injuries. Obviously he is coming back
• 10:54
  Speaker 2: from an injury. Certainly postgame there was nothing of the
• 10:58
  Speaker 2: sort mentioned. So I think it was too early, and
• 11:02
  Speaker 2: I think, you know, I feel the All Blacks. You
• 11:05
  Speaker 2: need to keep your best players out in the field
• 11:07
  Speaker 2: for as long as possible, and even if it's in
• 11:08
  Speaker 2: a half back role where buying large you know, players
• 11:12
  Speaker 2: are substituted late in the game because it is a
• 11:15
  Speaker 2: position that requires and demands a lot of you. I
• 11:19
  Speaker 2: think you need to be a little bit more flexible
• 11:22
  Speaker 2: around that and getting you know, even seventy minutes out
• 11:25
  Speaker 2: of the Cambroy Guard, the way that he was playing,
• 11:27
  Speaker 2: if he could get to that point, would have been
• 11:29
  Speaker 2: maybe a bit of a difference maker in that game.
• 11:32
  Speaker 2: You know, often you see them change the halfbacks to
• 11:35
  Speaker 2: change the tempo of the game. Well, I think Camboy
• 11:38
  Speaker 2: Guard was setting the tempo of that game and went
• 11:40
  Speaker 2: a little bit backwards when Cortez Razima came on the park.
• 11:43
  Speaker 2: So I think that is still a learning curve. We
• 11:46
  Speaker 2: talk about learning curves for Scott robertson of Scott Barrett.
• 11:49
  Speaker 2: That's one for Scott Robinson. Just around the bench and
• 11:52
  Speaker 2: how best to deploy those players. French went in with
• 11:57
  Speaker 2: a six to two bench, which meant that they had
• 12:00
  Speaker 2: a reserve halfback. But and do Pop moved out to
• 12:02
  Speaker 2: ten late in the game when Ligorak came on the park.
• 12:07
  Speaker 3: So you know that was slightly different.
• 12:10
  Speaker 2: But they kept too pinned out there for the full
• 12:12
  Speaker 2: eighty minutes because they know the impact that he has
• 12:14
  Speaker 2: on a game. Well, you know, to be honest, Cam
• 12:16
  Speaker 2: royguard in this All Blacks team at the moment. I
• 12:18
  Speaker 2: know he's only just come back, but he's providing some
• 12:20
  Speaker 2: of the sparks, so surely you wund out him out there.
• 12:23
  Speaker 2: He's a hell of a fit athlete, he got that
• 12:25
  Speaker 2: Bronco test earlier in the year before that injury.
• 12:28
  Speaker 3: Out there as long as possible.
• 12:30
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I totally agree, And I think half back, while
• 12:33
  Speaker 4: it is a very anaerobic position, you're doing a lot
• 12:37
  Speaker 4: of running.
• 12:38
  Speaker 5: If you think back to Aaron Smith, he used to
• 12:40
  Speaker 5: play massive minutes.
• 12:41
  Speaker 4: The World Cup Final, he played seventy eight odd minutes
• 12:44
  Speaker 4: before you know, Finlay Christie came off the bench and
• 12:47
  Speaker 4: just on that, you know, I think it really does
• 12:50
  Speaker 4: show the folly of that decision in the World Cup
• 12:53
  Speaker 4: knockout games that cam Roygard wasn't on the bench for
• 12:57
  Speaker 4: those knockout fixtures. But cam Roygard, as you mentioned with
• 13:01
  Speaker 4: the Bronco Test, he's one of the fittest in the
• 13:03
  Speaker 4: All Blacks. I think he was playing exceptionally well. You know,
• 13:06
  Speaker 4: he picked the pock for that tri a thief in
• 13:09
  Speaker 4: the Paris Knight. Brilliant piece of individual play there. But
• 13:14
  Speaker 4: also just his ability. His size is underrated, but you
• 13:19
  Speaker 4: know everyone looks at his running game and his big
• 13:21
  Speaker 4: left boot, but the All Blacks rap presentation as a
• 13:24
  Speaker 4: touched on before has not been great in the past
• 13:27
  Speaker 4: two weeks and canroy Guard copes with that very well.
• 13:30
  Speaker 4: Because of his size, he's able to shake off defenders,
• 13:33
  Speaker 4: he doesn't get too rattled there, and he was dealing
• 13:37
  Speaker 4: with that French pressure and you know, making good decisions.
• 13:41
  Speaker 5: So I would have left him out there a lot
• 13:43
  Speaker 5: a lot longer.
• 13:44
  Speaker 4: As you mentioned, upon played the full eighty minutes jameson
• 13:47
  Speaker 4: Gibson Park another huge influence for Ireland. He often plays
• 13:50
  Speaker 4: eighty minutes, so it is common for half backs to
• 13:53
  Speaker 4: play big minutes, so I think the All Blacks botched
• 13:56
  Speaker 4: that that change.
• 13:58
  Speaker 2: Yeah, quarters, Racham has had a good season on his
• 14:01
  Speaker 2: rookie year for the All Blacks, but just Fils over
• 14:03
  Speaker 2: the last two or three weeks has been a few
• 14:05
  Speaker 2: things that he needs some prove on heading into twenty
• 14:10
  Speaker 2: twenty five, and that comes with every position. I'm sure
• 14:13
  Speaker 2: on the park, let's talk before we wrap up around
• 14:16
  Speaker 2: the refereeing and both put the boot in too much.
• 14:19
  Speaker 2: But Nika Amisha Kelly. Again, the issue for me with
• 14:25
  Speaker 2: World Rugb at the moment is there are not enough
• 14:28
  Speaker 2: good referees to go around. I think that's plain and
• 14:30
  Speaker 2: simple the truth. At the moment, there are referees that
• 14:34
  Speaker 2: have been elevated too early. If you're in the UK,
• 14:37
  Speaker 2: you tend to get elevated on that path very early.
• 14:40
  Speaker 2: But they clearly want referees from around the merging nations.
• 14:43
  Speaker 2: That's why they've got Nika Amisha Kelly. He's had a
• 14:47
  Speaker 2: couple of All Blacks tests previously and other tests around
• 14:49
  Speaker 2: the globe. I think he struggled with the pace that
• 14:53
  Speaker 2: both teams are wanting to play at and made some
• 14:56
  Speaker 2: curious decisions, aided by his TMO that you had a
• 15:02
  Speaker 2: big influence on the game, the offer tong of Faci
• 15:04
  Speaker 2: nick Roll. While it's been three days, I'm still struggling
• 15:07
  Speaker 2: to see where exactly that was. And there were some
• 15:09
  Speaker 2: other ones as well. He seemed unwilling to reward the
• 15:12
  Speaker 2: all Blacks at scrum time, just didn't seem to want
• 15:15
  Speaker 2: to go near it. He gave one penalty and then
• 15:18
  Speaker 2: basically washed his hands of the whole affair. So I
• 15:21
  Speaker 2: don't want us to be seen as a criticism of
• 15:23
  Speaker 2: him necessarily, But I think the big issue with World
• 15:25
  Speaker 2: Rugby at the moment is the rulebook is too complicated.
• 15:28
  Speaker 2: There are very few referees who can keep up with
• 15:30
  Speaker 2: it and manage a game, which is essentially what they
• 15:32
  Speaker 2: have been tasked with as managing these games as well
• 15:35
  Speaker 2: as refereeing it. And now you've got referees that are
• 15:39
  Speaker 2: elevated above their station too early, and I think that's
• 15:43
  Speaker 2: partly why there are so many issues around it at
• 15:45
  Speaker 2: the moment.
• 15:47
  Speaker 4: Yeah, that was a massive issue, and I do agree
• 15:50
  Speaker 4: about the standard of international refereeing on the whole seene
• 15:53
  Speaker 4: some very experienced referees, Wayne Barnes and the light move
• 15:56
  Speaker 4: on in recent years and the standard has dipped quite significantly.
• 16:00
  Speaker 5: And I also agree.
• 16:01
  Speaker 4: That there's a desire from World Rugby to promote these
• 16:07
  Speaker 4: guys on the basis that you want to cross section
• 16:10
  Speaker 4: of countries and as you mentioned, emerging nations. But there
• 16:14
  Speaker 4: there's always a bit of a lottery when he's in charge.
• 16:17
  Speaker 4: It's hard to escape that. And I don't think he
• 16:20
  Speaker 4: should be getting these big tests at this stage in
• 16:22
  Speaker 4: his career. Maybe he'll improve, but I don't think he's
• 16:27
  Speaker 4: there yet. And yeah, that neck role in the context
• 16:29
  Speaker 4: of that result, that was a terrible decision. That is
• 16:33
  Speaker 4: such a fifty to fifty call for the TMO to
• 16:37
  Speaker 4: intervene the scrum as well. Yeah, the All Blacks are
• 16:40
  Speaker 4: very dominant, pushing the French back and they weren't called
• 16:45
  Speaker 4: So that was definitely a contributing factor. It wasn't the
• 16:49
  Speaker 4: sole reason the All Blacks lost, but I think behind
• 16:51
  Speaker 4: closed doors there will be a lot of frustrations. Now,
• 16:55
  Speaker 4: now look, you know we've been reasonably critical, I guess
• 16:58
  Speaker 4: on the whole, but what about some of the individual performances,
• 17:03
  Speaker 4: for you, Elliott, for the All Blacks, one guy in particular,
• 17:05
  Speaker 4: Peter Luckeye comes off.
• 17:07
  Speaker 5: The bench and has set can test.
• 17:09
  Speaker 4: I was very vocal about the fact that I wanted
• 17:13
  Speaker 4: this guy, twenty one year old prospects been playing out
• 17:16
  Speaker 4: of his skin in the NPC and Super Ragby for
• 17:18
  Speaker 4: a couple of years. I wanted him in the squad
• 17:21
  Speaker 4: from the outset. He only got called up because the
• 17:23
  Speaker 4: injuries comes on play seventy eight minutes outstanding, EF it
• 17:30
  Speaker 4: wasn't it? And some others for you.
• 17:33
  Speaker 3: Yeah, he was excellent.
• 17:34
  Speaker 2: Very impressed by him coming and you know, one minute
• 17:37
  Speaker 2: forty five into the game, playing the reas much longer
• 17:40
  Speaker 2: than he would have expected. I thought he was superb
• 17:42
  Speaker 2: and that bodes really really well for the makeup of
• 17:44
  Speaker 2: that loose Ford trio comes twenty twenty five. Is going
• 17:47
  Speaker 2: to be interesting to see how that all shakes down
• 17:49
  Speaker 2: and which position each player finds themselves in. We just
• 17:54
  Speaker 2: mentioned the scrum, but I thought to Maati Williams was excellent,
• 17:57
  Speaker 2: probably his best test for mine. You know, there's been
• 18:01
  Speaker 2: a lot of conjecture back home around where Ethan de
• 18:05
  Speaker 2: Groot's gone through. Well we know where he went to
• 18:07
  Speaker 2: for England out of the team stood down, but time
• 18:10
  Speaker 2: to put some respect onto Mudy William's name because he
• 18:13
  Speaker 2: was excellent again and he was the previous week as well,
• 18:17
  Speaker 2: and I thought it was his best test. Didn't get
• 18:19
  Speaker 2: rewarded necessarily the penalties at scrum time, but I thought
• 18:21
  Speaker 2: he was superb. Cam Royguard obviously, as we touched on before,
• 18:25
  Speaker 2: I thought was a tet as at that point where
• 18:29
  Speaker 2: he's not having bad tests, he's everywhere and rdisav I
• 18:33
  Speaker 2: thought was his best test and a few tests as well.
• 18:35
  Speaker 2: So a lot to like actually from the All Blacks.
• 18:37
  Speaker 2: And here's the thing Liam, my dad messaged me after
• 18:41
  Speaker 2: the game and he made a very good point and
• 18:43
  Speaker 2: he said, if the All Blacks before the tour, you know,
• 18:46
  Speaker 2: would win two of those big games and lose the
• 18:48
  Speaker 2: other one by one, I think most people would have
• 18:50
  Speaker 2: taken it.
• 18:51
  Speaker 3: Would you have?
• 18:53
  Speaker 5: Yeah? I would have.
• 18:54
  Speaker 4: It is a good point. I think both of us
• 18:56
  Speaker 4: predicted that'd go. They dropped one test on the tour,
• 19:01
  Speaker 4: and as I mentioned last part, I think he really
• 19:04
  Speaker 4: struck some form in the tipping department because he said
• 19:06
  Speaker 4: that beat Island.
• 19:07
  Speaker 5: I said that to Ireland. You said they lose to France.
• 19:10
  Speaker 4: I said they beat Front So yeah, who knows you
• 19:13
  Speaker 4: might be able to flip the script and carry that momentum.
• 19:17
  Speaker 4: But on the context of this tour, I think on
• 19:20
  Speaker 4: the provisor that they do beat Italy and put out
• 19:24
  Speaker 4: a comprehensive performance there.
• 19:27
  Speaker 5: It's been.
• 19:29
  Speaker 4: Surprising, I think from the All Blacks, but there is
• 19:32
  Speaker 4: context to that as well. They could have easily dropped
• 19:34
  Speaker 4: that England test, So there is improvement. There is evolution
• 19:39
  Speaker 4: from this all Black team, but it's just it is
• 19:42
  Speaker 4: frustrating that they let that test slip because it was
• 19:45
  Speaker 4: there for the taking. Just one other player that you
• 19:47
  Speaker 4: didn't mention, Caleb Clark. I think he was outstanding on
• 19:51
  Speaker 4: the left wing, made big meters with every touch, seems
• 19:55
  Speaker 4: to be getting involved a lot, and he's a guy
• 19:57
  Speaker 4: that wasn't really in the picture, you know a year ago,
• 20:01
  Speaker 4: struggled to crack this all Black team. So he cemented
• 20:05
  Speaker 4: that left wing role. And I think we also saw
• 20:07
  Speaker 4: Mark Tale. His absence was massive and the loyalty I think,
• 20:12
  Speaker 4: and severa Reese has been misplaced. He got that one
• 20:16
  Speaker 4: incept but then lacked pace and then for the runaway
• 20:19
  Speaker 4: trier for France that was very stark hit. Severa Reese's
• 20:25
  Speaker 4: lack of pace and just how blitzed he got, so
• 20:27
  Speaker 4: I think interesting to see where that goes. But Mark
• 20:31
  Speaker 4: de Lea's absence on the right wing really felt and
• 20:35
  Speaker 4: Artie Severe as you mentioned, back to his back to
• 20:38
  Speaker 4: the future, wasn't it going reverting to open soide flanker
• 20:41
  Speaker 4: roaming the wide channels. He had a big influence in
• 20:44
  Speaker 4: Peter Luckeye's opening try busting tackles. So the composition of
• 20:49
  Speaker 4: that loose for trio very intriguing going forward.
• 20:52
  Speaker 2: Indeed, it is one Reese I think you know, you
• 20:56
  Speaker 2: mentioned Calen Park was out of form or wasn't part
• 20:59
  Speaker 2: of the squad a year ago. You know, maybe the
• 21:01
  Speaker 2: same will happen with severa Reese and we're here in
• 21:03
  Speaker 2: a years time saying, you know, he's found his way
• 21:06
  Speaker 2: back in, but it feels like he is drifting out
• 21:09
  Speaker 2: of this all blacks environment at the moment, just in
• 21:12
  Speaker 2: terms of his necessity to be there.
• 21:15
  Speaker 3: In all honesty, as you mentioned, Mark Kalaier was superb, but.
• 21:19
  Speaker 2: I just think that he doesn't have the pace anymore.
• 21:22
  Speaker 3: He came up the fact of that big injury. Of
• 21:25
  Speaker 3: course in twenty twenty three.
• 21:27
  Speaker 2: He's very good in super rugby and a poor crusader's side,
• 21:29
  Speaker 2: But just feels like father time might be catching up
• 21:32
  Speaker 2: a little bit with Seva Reese. He's twenty seven now, which,
• 21:35
  Speaker 2: as we know, is the year that All Blacks wingers
• 21:37
  Speaker 2: basically no longer worth anything.
• 21:39
  Speaker 3: So I mean that in the kindest possible way.
• 21:43
  Speaker 2: So look, you know, there's a big question mark I
• 21:46
  Speaker 2: think over him heading into twenty twenty five, isn't there?
• 21:51
  Speaker 5: There is? Indeed?
• 21:52
  Speaker 4: And what about just the blueprint for the All Blacks,
• 21:54
  Speaker 4: because it was very notable in this game the lack
• 21:57
  Speaker 4: of kicking, so clearly they didn't want to get into
• 22:00
  Speaker 4: you know, aerial ping pong with France because of DuPont.
• 22:03
  Speaker 5: And the French liking they kick.
• 22:06
  Speaker 4: France kept longer and more often than any other team
• 22:09
  Speaker 4: in international rugby, so they've clearly done their homework.
• 22:11
  Speaker 5: There will Jordan cart and the ball back.
• 22:15
  Speaker 4: I think they probably the balance tip too far into
• 22:18
  Speaker 4: holding the ball and maybe a bit of fatigue in
• 22:21
  Speaker 4: the second half contributed to those costly handling errors. But
• 22:27
  Speaker 4: I do like that from the All Blacks that they
• 22:29
  Speaker 4: are wanting to attack. They're wanting to use the width
• 22:33
  Speaker 4: and stretch teams and bring attacking chaos to their game
• 22:38
  Speaker 4: and it did work for them in the first half,
• 22:41
  Speaker 4: but just finding that balance it's tough, isn't it. Ali
• 22:44
  Speaker 4: and the international arena between the short kicking game, to
• 22:47
  Speaker 4: counter rush defense, to shape the defense and get them behind,
• 22:51
  Speaker 4: and to use your attacking instincts and offloads and ball
• 22:56
  Speaker 4: movement and skill that is right across the park with
• 22:59
  Speaker 4: this aw Black team when you talk about to Mighty
• 23:01
  Speaker 4: Williams and Wallace a tt and to provide and you
• 23:04
  Speaker 4: know how athletic is this saw book full pack. They
• 23:07
  Speaker 4: are outstanding, but you've got to strike that balance and
• 23:10
  Speaker 4: maybe it just tipped it a little bit too far.
• 23:13
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I think it did have a little too far.
• 23:14
  Speaker 2: What I do like, though, Liam, is the game plans
• 23:17
  Speaker 2: that are in place, and largely they are working for
• 23:22
  Speaker 2: the All Blacks. Obviously that was a defeat on the weekend,
• 23:24
  Speaker 2: but there are tweaks to the game plans that we're
• 23:27
  Speaker 2: seeing for different opposition that I think are paying dividends.
• 23:30
  Speaker 2: And you've got to have those things in your back
• 23:32
  Speaker 2: pocket as a test team. A plan A, plan B,
• 23:34
  Speaker 2: Plan C for how the opposition attack, and I think
• 23:37
  Speaker 2: we're seeing that from the All Blacks now but there
• 23:40
  Speaker 2: are different strategies in place, so that to me is
• 23:43
  Speaker 2: a pretty big tick. Let's move on to what we
• 23:47
  Speaker 2: expect this weekend against Italy and the final test of
• 23:51
  Speaker 2: the year in churin, Italy. Coming off a narrow win
• 23:55
  Speaker 2: over Georgia on the weekend. What's your expectation for the
• 23:59
  Speaker 2: team that will be selected by the All Blacks announced
• 24:02
  Speaker 2: Friday morning amongst the snowstorm on Thursday here in Turin
• 24:06
  Speaker 2: Liam Will it be whole sale changes, minimal changes somewhere
• 24:10
  Speaker 2: in between.
• 24:12
  Speaker 5: I think it'll be wholesale, Elliott.
• 24:14
  Speaker 4: That's been a big old year, massive three weeks for
• 24:17
  Speaker 4: the All Blacks. Those grueling tests I think they were
• 24:20
  Speaker 4: basically in the space of fifteen days, so it's got
• 24:23
  Speaker 4: to be some massive fatigue and batter than bruised bodies
• 24:26
  Speaker 4: among those starters.
• 24:28
  Speaker 5: So I think you'll see Sam Kine and CJ.
• 24:31
  Speaker 4: Petinara come back for their last outings for the All Blacks.
• 24:34
  Speaker 4: I think you'll see probably Damien McKenzie start at tech
• 24:37
  Speaker 4: and again Stephen Peter Fetter at fullback. I think guys
• 24:40
  Speaker 4: like Brocton need to come into the midfields. I think
• 24:45
  Speaker 4: there will be wholesale changes Ethan de Groot, I imagine
• 24:48
  Speaker 4: comes back for a start. He's been out in the cold,
• 24:50
  Speaker 4: as you mentioned, following the discipline issue. Good what is
• 24:56
  Speaker 4: it three weeks ago now and you've got guys in
• 24:59
  Speaker 4: the squad who would have been holding tackle pads, preparing
• 25:01
  Speaker 4: the starters, and they need to finish the year with
• 25:05
  Speaker 4: some sort of some form of encouragement.
• 25:07
  Speaker 5: So Italy haven't been great.
• 25:10
  Speaker 4: You know, you mentioned the Georgian result there, but they've
• 25:14
  Speaker 4: struggled in recent weeks to really put any compelling form together.
• 25:19
  Speaker 4: So I think you'll see something close to the Japanese
• 25:24
  Speaker 4: team because a number of those guys haven't played since.
• 25:27
  Speaker 5: You know, they need a chance, don't they They do.
• 25:29
  Speaker 2: I don't know that Ovia his wholesale as that necessarily
• 25:32
  Speaker 2: look at. I think you look at some players like
• 25:35
  Speaker 2: Cody Taylor. You know he set out the Island Test stuffer.
• 25:39
  Speaker 2: Amoa had two big tests in a row, one by
• 25:42
  Speaker 2: design one by Taylor going off against England. So I
• 25:46
  Speaker 2: think Taylor might start this week again Ethan de Groot. Certainly,
• 25:50
  Speaker 2: maybe Passily Otossa gets the start. I wonder with Semipenny
• 25:54
  Speaker 2: Feenal being out with they look at Scott Barrett on
• 25:56
  Speaker 2: the blind given perhaps the lack of options in the
• 26:00
  Speaker 2: squad around that position. Whilst the Titi has had four
• 26:04
  Speaker 2: tests in a row now, he's had a big year,
• 26:06
  Speaker 2: he's nominated for a World Rugby Award. I just you know,
• 26:09
  Speaker 2: you wonder whether they just need to give him a
• 26:12
  Speaker 2: little bit of a spell, even though he's about to
• 26:15
  Speaker 2: get into his off season. So you know, Boden Barratt
• 26:18
  Speaker 2: miss that test as well, So there's a few things
• 26:20
  Speaker 2: to balance.
• 26:20
  Speaker 3: Sam Kaine, you'd suspect will start. T J Petanarra maybe
• 26:24
  Speaker 3: gets a.
• 26:24
  Speaker 2: Fee weell test off the bench as well, and then
• 26:27
  Speaker 2: you maybe look at David Havali Anton then a Brown
• 26:31
  Speaker 2: getting some game time as well. But there are a
• 26:32
  Speaker 2: few balances, and there's probably going to be some players
• 26:35
  Speaker 2: that are you know, short on game time and we're
• 26:38
  Speaker 2: not going to get much game time on this tour.
• 26:40
  Speaker 3: But sometimes the way the cookie crumbles.
• 26:43
  Speaker 5: Yeah, it's Ruben Loves one guy that we haven't really mentioned.
• 26:46
  Speaker 4: He only got five or ten minutes off the bench
• 26:49
  Speaker 4: against Japan on the right wing, but one of the
• 26:52
  Speaker 4: most I think exciting attacking prospects very much, and he's
• 26:57
  Speaker 4: on rugby very much in the in the in the
• 26:58
  Speaker 4: will Jordan Mold so I'd like to see him include
• 27:01
  Speaker 4: it off the bench and give him, you know, good
• 27:04
  Speaker 4: good stint in the second half. But and Billy Prop
• 27:08
  Speaker 4: as well as the guy that hasn't had enough game
• 27:11
  Speaker 4: time this year in my mind, So for me, I
• 27:15
  Speaker 4: think it'd be great to see him start at center
• 27:17
  Speaker 4: and get another crack because I think he's only played
• 27:20
  Speaker 4: two tests this year if I'm right, in Fiji and Japan,
• 27:25
  Speaker 4: and he was the form midfielder throughout Super ab So
• 27:29
  Speaker 4: pretty keen to see him get another run around. No surprises, Elliott,
• 27:32
  Speaker 4: that's wanting to see a few more Hurricanes in the mix.
• 27:35
  Speaker 2: No, I'm just not sure he's come back from the
• 27:36
  Speaker 2: birth of his first child. Is the only things that
• 27:39
  Speaker 2: may keep him out of the mix. I know you've
• 27:42
  Speaker 2: been banging the drum for some time. You'd like to
• 27:44
  Speaker 2: see Schaffie Hockey in the team as well.
• 27:47
  Speaker 5: Well.
• 27:48
  Speaker 4: Look, I think there's a ecuoy in New Zealand as
• 27:51
  Speaker 4: we speak, Elliott, and fair to say, I think people
• 27:54
  Speaker 4: are already taken to the streets about Shaffie Hockey's inclusion,
• 27:57
  Speaker 4: so Razors should tread very carefully on that front.
• 28:01
  Speaker 2: Yeah, be your idea enough before we wrap up Harry
• 28:03
  Speaker 2: Plummer sounds like he's going to go to ACM Clement
• 28:06
  Speaker 2: and continuous rugby Korea thereafter Super Rugby in twenty twenty five. Look,
• 28:12
  Speaker 2: you sometimes you take those reports in French media with
• 28:16
  Speaker 2: a grain of salt, but the soult has been spread
• 28:19
  Speaker 2: around relatively wide in this instance in French media over
• 28:25
  Speaker 2: the last twenty four to forty eight hours. Sounds like
• 28:27
  Speaker 2: he's going certainly my understanding anyway, and you know, off
• 28:32
  Speaker 2: the back of his one test for the All Blacks
• 28:34
  Speaker 2: this year he's currently injured, not with the team in camp. Look,
• 28:38
  Speaker 2: you know, good on them for going and chasing the
• 28:41
  Speaker 2: overseas deal. But I think it's a bit of a
• 28:43
  Speaker 2: lost to New Zealand rugby when Harry Plumber goes.
• 28:47
  Speaker 5: It will be a loss, it is.
• 28:49
  Speaker 4: I guess it's a shame that a guy, you know,
• 28:51
  Speaker 4: coming into the prime of career, he's done the hard yards,
• 28:54
  Speaker 4: through injury and come through a lot of adversity and
• 28:57
  Speaker 4: then leads the Blues to a Super Rugby title, probably
• 29:01
  Speaker 4: the most unheralded first five to a degree in New
• 29:04
  Speaker 4: Zealand rugby.
• 29:05
  Speaker 5: History.
• 29:05
  Speaker 4: Really, the Blues have had Carlos Beer and Bowden Barrett and.
• 29:10
  Speaker 5: How many other you know.
• 29:13
  Speaker 4: First Five's pumped up to be the next big thing
• 29:16
  Speaker 4: and Harry Plumber, local boy comes through and takes them
• 29:19
  Speaker 4: to their first title and you know, twenty odd odd years.
• 29:23
  Speaker 4: So look, he's he's It's a smart move for Harry.
• 29:26
  Speaker 4: I think that his pathway to the All Blacks is
• 29:32
  Speaker 4: largely blocked, particularly with Richard Mwonga highly likely to come
• 29:36
  Speaker 4: back in July next year.
• 29:39
  Speaker 5: He's got an All Blacks cat.
• 29:40
  Speaker 4: Beside his name now, Harry Plumber, so your cash and
• 29:43
  Speaker 4: while that's hot, and I'm sure he's been offered a
• 29:46
  Speaker 4: great deal and it'll be a great lifestyle for him
• 29:50
  Speaker 4: in France. Also here in Ricky Ricky Talley Elliott's likely
• 29:54
  Speaker 4: off to Montpellier as well, So I think that will
• 29:59
  Speaker 4: probably be for twenty twenty what's that twenty twenty sixth.
• 30:04
  Speaker 4: So yeah, the Blues, I guess losing a couple of
• 30:07
  Speaker 4: guys who are interested me too on their title and
• 30:09
  Speaker 4: the coming years. But it does make sense for the
• 30:12
  Speaker 4: stage of career that they're they're at, doesn't it.
• 30:15
  Speaker 2: It does, And you know, I think both players you
• 30:18
  Speaker 2: can't begrudge them going overseas that at the point. For
• 30:22
  Speaker 2: rookie Rocqauseilley, clearly the writings on the wall around his
• 30:26
  Speaker 2: All Blacks ambitions given he to the All Blacks fifteen Tour,
• 30:29
  Speaker 2: and Harry Plummer probably get the sense of where he
• 30:32
  Speaker 2: is in the pecking order and I think, yeah, I
• 30:35
  Speaker 2: think that's probably about right for both of those players.
• 30:39
  Speaker 2: But again, it just takes away that that middle crust
• 30:41
  Speaker 2: from New Zealand rugby and some of those key players
• 30:45
  Speaker 2: you know around Super Rugby and the NPC that have
• 30:49
  Speaker 2: been you know, formative for their provinces, formative for their
• 30:52
  Speaker 2: Super Rugby teams in some success in recent years. Just
• 30:56
  Speaker 2: losing that middle layer I think does hurt.
• 30:58
  Speaker 3: So yeah, big.
• 30:59
  Speaker 2: Loss for both of those players, all their respective unions
• 31:03
  Speaker 2: and of course the Blues as well. We will take
• 31:06
  Speaker 2: a break here on Rugby Direct powered by Excess Solutions
• 31:10
  Speaker 2: and come back with the final four after this.
• 31:13
  Speaker 1: This is Rugby Direct, a podcast for real rugby fans.
• 31:21
  Speaker 2: Try it had sixty secondary tackle get up age.
• 31:28
  Speaker 5: Before It's Rugby Direct.
• 31:31
  Speaker 2: Back now on Rugby Direct with the final four for
• 31:34
  Speaker 2: rugby topics. Them and I had debate them all, Liam,
• 31:39
  Speaker 2: the continued chatter on the live if one style rugby tournament.
• 31:45
  Speaker 2: Another report over the weekend, if I recall rightly it
• 31:48
  Speaker 2: was in the Times, might have been the Telegraph, I'm
• 31:50
  Speaker 2: trying to think, but certainly one of the UK based papers,
• 31:54
  Speaker 2: similar detail to what we've seen previous week or so
• 31:58
  Speaker 2: a little bit more said that a lot of players
• 32:00
  Speaker 2: are on or have been targeted, with deal sort of
• 32:05
  Speaker 2: tentatively in place. Hard to know too much about this
• 32:10
  Speaker 2: given it's all shrouded in secrecy, but should world rugby
• 32:14
  Speaker 2: be concerned?
• 32:15
  Speaker 3: Are you concerned around the way this is tracking?
• 32:19
  Speaker 1: Well?
• 32:19
  Speaker 4: Where there's smoke this fire, Elliott, So I think there
• 32:22
  Speaker 4: needs to be a degree of concern, but we don't
• 32:25
  Speaker 4: know yet. There's no concrete information about who's the money man,
• 32:30
  Speaker 4: where's the money coming from? And that's the big question here,
• 32:33
  Speaker 4: how much does this evolve? Because I did have a
• 32:36
  Speaker 4: few background conversations on this yesterday, and you're talking about
• 32:41
  Speaker 4: somewhere in the vicinity of four hundred to five million
• 32:45
  Speaker 4: dollars that you're going to need to back something like this.
• 32:47
  Speaker 4: You're looking at two hundred and forty men's players, one
• 32:51
  Speaker 4: hundred and twenty women's players fourteen games a bit of
• 32:54
  Speaker 4: a traveling circus, so it's a massive amounts of financial
• 32:59
  Speaker 4: backing that you need to pull something like this off.
• 33:02
  Speaker 4: But this isn't going away, is it. As you mentioned,
• 33:05
  Speaker 4: we discussed this a couple of weeks ago, and it
• 33:08
  Speaker 4: now does seem to be gathering some steam. I think
• 33:12
  Speaker 4: players in England in particular maybe the first to jump
• 33:16
  Speaker 4: and get on board.
• 33:17
  Speaker 5: There's a bit of friction there between the players and the.
• 33:21
  Speaker 4: Union and and then wanting wanting more, and and the
• 33:26
  Speaker 4: local landscape they're changing. So interesting to see where it goes.
• 33:30
  Speaker 4: But I'm curious. I need more detail. And it does
• 33:36
  Speaker 4: come down to dollars and cents, doesn't it. Who's going
• 33:39
  Speaker 4: to stump up with what is some serious amount of
• 33:42
  Speaker 4: money to make this get off the ground.
• 33:46
  Speaker 2: Indeed, Rugby's had a history of this sort of stuff.
• 33:48
  Speaker 2: There was Global Rapid Rugby which promised plenty, there were
• 33:53
  Speaker 2: the twelves for a half second. There have been other
• 33:56
  Speaker 2: things that have gone on previously. It'll either go one
• 34:01
  Speaker 2: of two ways. I suppose It'll be like either those
• 34:04
  Speaker 2: aforementioned things, or it will be like the you know,
• 34:08
  Speaker 2: WRC five and could threaten to pull the game apart,
• 34:13
  Speaker 2: sput the game in two, and the only benefit from
• 34:17
  Speaker 2: the latter would be it may force World Rugby into
• 34:22
  Speaker 2: making changes. And you know, sometimes, you know, a threat
• 34:26
  Speaker 2: like this can elevate and make things happen more quickly.
• 34:31
  Speaker 2: You get into a sense of single swim mode, so
• 34:36
  Speaker 2: and may force them into doing things outside the box.
• 34:39
  Speaker 2: I don't know but what they might be. But sometimes
• 34:42
  Speaker 2: a bit of pressure is, you know, is what sport
• 34:46
  Speaker 2: sports organizations need. Not saying it's a good thing by
• 34:50
  Speaker 2: any measure, but sometimes you know, a little bit of
• 34:52
  Speaker 2: heat breathing down the neck isn't necessarily the worst thing
• 34:56
  Speaker 2: for some of the you know, the global power brokers,
• 34:58
  Speaker 2: be they World Rugby or some of the international national federations.
• 35:03
  Speaker 5: That's right, And look, the landscape is changing.
• 35:05
  Speaker 4: If you look at some of the the players, even
• 35:09
  Speaker 4: in the New Zealand landscape. Artie Severe is a massive
• 35:13
  Speaker 4: icon somebody who knows is worth. So if something like
• 35:18
  Speaker 4: this is floating around, I have no doubt that uziand
• 35:20
  Speaker 4: rugby players will look at it and see what's on offer,
• 35:24
  Speaker 4: decide what's best for them, and you know, weigh things
• 35:28
  Speaker 4: up when you look at the top All Blacks. We've
• 35:32
  Speaker 4: seen in recent years many of them go to Japan
• 35:35
  Speaker 4: and come back, So there is a potential for them
• 35:38
  Speaker 4: to go to this breakaway World League if it does
• 35:42
  Speaker 4: fit in the international calendar. But the All Blacks are
• 35:46
  Speaker 4: still a massive lure. The World Cup still a massive lure.
• 35:49
  Speaker 4: International rugby is the cream dela creme, and we've seen
• 35:53
  Speaker 4: that in recent weeks.
• 35:54
  Speaker 5: Haven't we the stage in France? Who were there in Paris?
• 35:57
  Speaker 4: What a magnificent atmosphere and occasion and players want to
• 36:00
  Speaker 4: be on that stage. So if they have to give
• 36:03
  Speaker 4: that up to go and play in this breakaway league,
• 36:07
  Speaker 4: I think that would be very hard for them because
• 36:10
  Speaker 4: money isn't everything and playing on those big stages, representing
• 36:13
  Speaker 4: their country, playing at the pinnacle of the sport is
• 36:17
  Speaker 4: still a massive driver for athletes in the prime of
• 36:21
  Speaker 4: their careers.
• 36:22
  Speaker 2: Yeah, World Rugby needs to protect that and not go
• 36:24
  Speaker 2: the way of cricket where franchise sport franchise cricket rules
• 36:31
  Speaker 2: international cricket has done for a few years now. So
• 36:34
  Speaker 2: World Rugby does need to be cognizant of the threats.
• 36:38
  Speaker 2: Speaking of World Rugby Award nominees, Outs and Sprinkling of
• 36:43
  Speaker 2: New Zealand is nominated, what Iss the Tity, Breakthrough Player
• 36:46
  Speaker 2: of the Year, Hannah King, the Black Fans Pivot and
• 36:48
  Speaker 2: Breakthrough Women's Player of the Year, michaleebe Blyth, Georgia Miller
• 36:53
  Speaker 2: in the Sevens Awards, and Georgia Ponsonby as well nominated
• 36:57
  Speaker 2: for Women's Teens Try of the Year. But from a
• 37:00
  Speaker 2: wider picture of Liam, any surprises are missions that stood
• 37:04
  Speaker 2: out for you.
• 37:06
  Speaker 5: Not on the whole Elliot.
• 37:07
  Speaker 4: It's great to see using a woman well represented, which
• 37:10
  Speaker 4: is a reflection of how well they've gone, particularly on
• 37:13
  Speaker 4: the seventh scene from I guess it's disappointing from an
• 37:19
  Speaker 4: all Blacks point of view not to see some form
• 37:21
  Speaker 4: of representation in the Player.
• 37:24
  Speaker 5: Of the Year nominees.
• 37:25
  Speaker 4: Yet I'd be disappointed if Wallace the TC doesn't win
• 37:28
  Speaker 4: Breakthrough Player and knows quality competition in the English Winger
• 37:36
  Speaker 4: and Sasha that the spring Box First five as well,
• 37:40
  Speaker 4: but he's been the clear standout for me. The one
• 37:44
  Speaker 4: I think frustration glaring emission in the context of World
• 37:49
  Speaker 4: Rugby Awards in the entirety as there's never been. Elliott's
• 37:53
  Speaker 4: are prop nominated for the Player of the Year and
• 37:56
  Speaker 4: I know there's a bit of consternation out there that
• 37:59
  Speaker 4: ox Niche is not part of that mix. There is
• 38:01
  Speaker 4: three spring box, which is I think fair. They've led
• 38:05
  Speaker 4: the world in recent years and they still hold them
• 38:08
  Speaker 4: mantle in the global context. But what does the PROP
• 38:12
  Speaker 4: have to do to get nominated for that award?
• 38:14
  Speaker 2: Well, very good question. Tyger Furlong had an excellent year
• 38:20
  Speaker 2: about five or six years ago. I think's had a
• 38:23
  Speaker 2: few excellent years. Tyger Philon might not be the player
• 38:25
  Speaker 2: that he once was, but he was at one point
• 38:28
  Speaker 2: I thought deserving of a nominee.
• 38:31
  Speaker 3: There have been other.
• 38:32
  Speaker 2: Players as well that would have claims to that, someone
• 38:37
  Speaker 2: you know, perhaps like a troll. Lomax even might be
• 38:40
  Speaker 2: in the conversation for some of his efforts over say
• 38:44
  Speaker 2: twenty twenty three, not saying he'd win it necessarily, but
• 38:47
  Speaker 2: he'd been there thereabouts in terms of probably being the
• 38:51
  Speaker 2: world's best tight head for a time. So I look,
• 38:55
  Speaker 2: it seems like there are blinkers on from the World
• 38:57
  Speaker 2: Rugby Awards Committee around the Props, and look that maybe
• 39:02
  Speaker 2: they need a union or something like that to form
• 39:04
  Speaker 2: and get some recognition from the top brass, because seems
• 39:09
  Speaker 2: like the blinkers are on at the top topic number three.
• 39:12
  Speaker 2: Let's continue the World Rugby three and Brett Robinson the Australian.
• 39:16
  Speaker 2: As Mike Robinson told us a couple of weeks ago,
• 39:18
  Speaker 2: he was New Zealand Rugby's choice. He gets the top job,
• 39:21
  Speaker 2: first man from the Southern Hemisphere to get it since
• 39:23
  Speaker 2: it was a contestable position some twenty eight years ago.
• 39:28
  Speaker 2: I guess the question for you, Liam, is anything going
• 39:31
  Speaker 2: to change under Brett Robinson's stewardship is.
• 39:34
  Speaker 4: Chair Well, I think it'll be a progression Elliott, of
• 39:39
  Speaker 4: what we've seen in terms of the priorities around the
• 39:42
  Speaker 4: style of the game, hopefully which is pleasing from an
• 39:46
  Speaker 4: entertainment perspective, creating more pace and tempo, less TMO influence,
• 39:52
  Speaker 4: so prioritizing rugby as an entertainment product, hopefully ushering through
• 39:58
  Speaker 4: the twenty minute red card and those sorts of things. Interestingly,
• 40:03
  Speaker 4: I think he only just knucked through by two votes,
• 40:06
  Speaker 4: and I don't think he heads out the Frick's support,
• 40:09
  Speaker 4: which is quite telling in terms of the difference of
• 40:14
  Speaker 4: opinion in among the heavyweight sans Are nations. I think
• 40:19
  Speaker 4: if you look at it objectively, it's good for New
• 40:24
  Speaker 4: Zealand rugby and the established elite. But someone like Benazi,
• 40:28
  Speaker 4: his main competition did. Part of his pitch was very
• 40:32
  Speaker 4: much around bringing through Tier two, having more Tier one
• 40:36
  Speaker 4: against Tier two competition in the international arena. So I
• 40:42
  Speaker 4: don't I don't think it's it's great for Tier two rugby.
• 40:45
  Speaker 4: Britt Robinson will very much support the nation's championship and
• 40:50
  Speaker 4: those sorts of things. What sort of big ticket items
• 40:53
  Speaker 4: do you see him trying to push.
• 40:55
  Speaker 2: Well, probably not his remit, but I would like him
• 40:57
  Speaker 2: to sort out, you know, some of the officiating and
• 41:00
  Speaker 2: some of the rule book issues around the game. Again
• 41:05
  Speaker 2: not necessarily his remits necessarily, but I guess it forms
• 41:09
  Speaker 2: a pole of game picture picture that I think is
• 41:14
  Speaker 2: you know, an issue for world rugby at the moment.
• 41:17
  Speaker 2: You know, he obviously a twenty four team Men's World
• 41:20
  Speaker 2: Cup in twenty seven that I think the jury is
• 41:24
  Speaker 2: still out on around that format and whether it's a success.
• 41:28
  Speaker 2: So you know, I think there are a lot to do.
• 41:32
  Speaker 2: I think that the key things for him, as you say,
• 41:34
  Speaker 2: tear toundations not necessarily on board with it, wasn't part
• 41:39
  Speaker 2: of his pitch compared to Benazi, So he's got a
• 41:43
  Speaker 2: bit of work to do there to bring them on
• 41:44
  Speaker 2: board and bring them.
• 41:45
  Speaker 3: Part of the game.
• 41:47
  Speaker 2: There are a number of challenges inside the game at
• 41:49
  Speaker 2: the moment financially, you know, around franchise rugby and everything
• 41:54
  Speaker 2: like that that he'll have to look at too. So yeah,
• 41:58
  Speaker 2: it's a fairly big inbox for Brett Robinson as he
• 42:01
  Speaker 2: gets down to the chairmanship over the next few months
• 42:04
  Speaker 2: and interesting to.
• 42:05
  Speaker 3: See how that progresses topping.
• 42:07
  Speaker 2: Number four in the final four Lee Let's get into
• 42:10
  Speaker 2: some predictions for the final proper full weekends of the
• 42:14
  Speaker 2: Autumnation Series, and Ireland and Australia play the following weekend.
• 42:18
  Speaker 2: But let's look at this weekend full slate of fixtures.
• 42:23
  Speaker 2: Speaking of a Tier one bias, let's look through these
• 42:26
  Speaker 2: Tier one fixtures. France versus a Argentina rather Friday nights
• 42:31
  Speaker 2: local time. It starred to France, three from three from
• 42:35
  Speaker 2: France after they went over the All Blacks.
• 42:38
  Speaker 4: Oh it's the tough one to tip there, Elliott. The
• 42:40
  Speaker 4: Poems pushed Islands to the brink, didn't they. And Dublin
• 42:44
  Speaker 4: and are a team on the rise. But yeah, France
• 42:48
  Speaker 4: at home, they've got a great record in Paris pretty
• 42:51
  Speaker 4: hard to beat.
• 42:51
  Speaker 5: The must start to France, so stick with the French.
• 42:54
  Speaker 3: Yeah, Le's stick with the French on that front as well.
• 42:57
  Speaker 2: Ireland Fiji at the Aviva come Saturday afternoon local.
• 43:03
  Speaker 4: Time should be reasonably straightforward for Ireland to expect.
• 43:11
  Speaker 3: It'd expects so.
• 43:12
  Speaker 2: But they've you know, didn't think they were that great
• 43:16
  Speaker 2: against Argentina. In all honesty, you know what going to
• 43:21
  Speaker 2: shock the world and get a winner of Ireland and that's.
• 43:26
  Speaker 5: You've always been a big Duror fan, So no surprises there.
• 43:30
  Speaker 2: I've seen them beat the Crusaders far too often to
• 43:32
  Speaker 2: underestimate them. Liam Wells, South Africa. This would be pretty
• 43:38
  Speaker 2: special for Gats to get a big win over Russy,
• 43:40
  Speaker 2: wouldn't it.
• 43:42
  Speaker 4: It'll be special to the Gats to have his last
• 43:45
  Speaker 4: game in charge of Wales. Certainly a lot of heat
• 43:50
  Speaker 4: building in Cardiff and the valleys. They've got the pitchforks out.
• 43:56
  Speaker 4: They're storming, storming Cardiff. So look, it's going to be
• 44:00
  Speaker 4: another dark day, isn't that. Whales falling to eleven straight
• 44:04
  Speaker 4: defeats their worst run in history. And that was a
• 44:08
  Speaker 4: fish lacking by the Wallabies, wasn't it. So I was
• 44:11
  Speaker 4: in a very dark place at the moment and it's
• 44:12
  Speaker 4: not going to get any better against the World Champs.
• 44:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I can't see it. Ethlee Newer, we didn't give
• 44:18
  Speaker 2: a tip for that. Are you going with your Italian
• 44:22
  Speaker 2: roots and backing an upset?
• 44:24
  Speaker 1: Oh?
• 44:24
  Speaker 4: The head of the Hearts torn torn hair, very very
• 44:28
  Speaker 4: very torn.
• 44:29
  Speaker 5: But I think the All Blacks might just sneak that one.
• 44:32
  Speaker 2: I think so to Scotland. Australia is the Grand Slam
• 44:36
  Speaker 2: on for the Wallabies.
• 44:40
  Speaker 4: Look, I'm going to say Scotland in the Grand Slam. Unfortunately.
• 44:44
  Speaker 4: I think the Wallabies are a team on the rise,
• 44:46
  Speaker 4: but Scotland can be quite tough to beat in Edinburgh.
• 44:49
  Speaker 4: So unfortunately, the Wallabies dreams. I don't think it's going
• 44:57
  Speaker 4: to come crashing down. It'll be a tight type ficture,
• 44:59
  Speaker 4: but I think Scotland put.
• 45:00
  Speaker 2: Them three from three Babby. It's coming home to Australia
• 45:04
  Speaker 2: and England Japan. Eddie Jones returning to Alian Stadium, leaving
• 45:11
  Speaker 2: leading the Brave Blossoms to glory, presumably Liam.
• 45:16
  Speaker 5: No, No, he doesn't elliots it.
• 45:19
  Speaker 4: He's building you know, you know, he's tired trope that
• 45:22
  Speaker 4: he's building for the next World Cup.
• 45:24
  Speaker 5: It's all part of the master plan.
• 45:27
  Speaker 4: Japanel cop thirty point loss and you know it's all
• 45:30
  Speaker 4: about experience at this point in the in the in
• 45:33
  Speaker 4: the journey.
• 45:34
  Speaker 5: As John Mitchell would say.
• 45:35
  Speaker 3: What's Steve Borthwick building too?
• 45:38
  Speaker 4: Well, he's under as much pressure as Gats at the moment,
• 45:42
  Speaker 4: isn't he? Three losses, three consecutive losses at Twickenham. I
• 45:46
  Speaker 4: think it's the first time since two thousand and six
• 45:48
  Speaker 4: England they've had that sort of run. They should have
• 45:52
  Speaker 4: beaten the Wallabies, probably should have been the all blacks
• 45:54
  Speaker 4: of a couple of missed George Ford opportunities at the end,
• 45:57
  Speaker 4: but they really faded badly against South Africa. The box
• 46:02
  Speaker 4: just know how to win those tight tests. Damian Delnde
• 46:06
  Speaker 4: and Cheeslin Colby combineding brilliantly at funished there. So Yeah,
• 46:10
  Speaker 4: a lot of heat coming for Seve worthwook and I
• 46:12
  Speaker 4: think we're seeing the effects of those coaching changes with
• 46:15
  Speaker 4: Felix Jones leaving a big loss for them, so they
• 46:18
  Speaker 4: desperately need one, don't they.
• 46:20
  Speaker 2: They're doing indeed's right. That'll do us for Rugby Direct
• 46:23
  Speaker 2: for another week. Quit programming note that we won't be
• 46:27
  Speaker 2: back immediately after the game next weekend. I have a
• 46:31
  Speaker 2: few flights to catch back home, but we will endeavors
• 46:34
  Speaker 2: be back in your ears by the end of next
• 46:37
  Speaker 2: week to not only wrap up the game again Italy,
• 46:40
  Speaker 2: but the All Black season as a whole.
• 46:43
  Speaker 3: So look forward to.
• 46:44
  Speaker 2: Doing that then and maybe even doing a podcast face
• 46:47
  Speaker 2: to face again.
• 46:47
  Speaker 3: That'd be pretty special, wouldn't it, Liab.
• 46:50
  Speaker 4: It'd be great to gaze into your eyes over a
• 46:52
  Speaker 4: vena and some fresh past that you're bringing home and transit,
• 46:55
  Speaker 4: So look forward to that.
• 46:56
  Speaker 5: Elliott.
• 46:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm not sure we get a pass border control,
• 46:59
  Speaker 2: but I'll do my very best for Liam.
• 47:01
  Speaker 3: That has been Rugby Direct for another week.
• 47:03
  Speaker 2: I thanks to Lars and Bars English and of course
• 47:05
  Speaker 2: our thanks to Access Solutions elevating you and your business
• 47:09
  Speaker 2: to a higher level.
• 47:15
  Speaker 1: For more from News Talk st B, listen live on
• 47:18
  Speaker 1: air or online, and keep our shows with you wherever
• 47:21
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