Latest / The Hannah Hammond Show / The Tax-Free Wealth Hack Nobody Teaches | Greg Herlean

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The Tax-Free Wealth Hack Nobody Teaches | Greg Herlean · The Hannah Hammond Show

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  The number one expense is taxes. You and I can invest in the
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  exact same things for the next 20 years, same exact returns.
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  I would have somewhere between 20 and probably 35% more money
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  than you just by using a vehicle that the IRS has approved.
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  Most advisors, as all of us know, is open up this account,
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  put a percentage of your paycheck in it, and then we're
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  just going to buy this index fund and you just leave it there
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  until you're, you know, 65 your. Advisor probably isn't telling
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  you this is another option. How successful were you, how
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  much did you lose and how did you mentally deal with that
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  that? Was probably worth on paper, 10
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  to $15 million of 30. What happened when you were in
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  that situation in 2008? I was a guarantor on $25 million
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  of bank loans, and I had three kids that were, you know, 6 and
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  under. No forthcoming.
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  I was not only at zero, I was at -25 million.
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  It didn't tell my wife at the time what we were going through.
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  How did you get through that? Welcome back to the Hannah
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  Hammond show. I'm here today with Greg
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  Hurline, founder and CEO of Horizon Trust Company.
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  And I love what you do and I can't wait to dive into it today
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  because I just explored the amazingness of self-directed
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  Iras. And I always thought, you know,
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  your traditional 4-O1K was a scam and a fraud and you know,
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  rich dad, poor dad, Robert Kiyosaki principal type things.
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  But there's a lot of really cool things you can do with the
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  self-directed IRA. But beyond that, you are just an
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  amazing entrepreneur and leader, and you've been through all of
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  the testaments of time when it comes to starting companies,
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  raising capital, going big, having massive success, losing
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  it all, having a family, having amazing personal health and
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  fitness and all of those things. And we all know as entrepreneurs
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  how hard it is to balance every single one of those things and
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  to actually execute and do it successfully and actually
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  rebuild after losing everything. So excited for having you on the
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  show today and thanks for coming.
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  On yeah thanks for having me I when you said all that that's a
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  mouthful so yeah I feel like I have lived all of that maybe
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  twice so yeah thanks thanks a lot for having me of.
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  Course and we know each other through one of the masterminds
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  that we're in called boardroom from Kent cloth there, which is
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  an awesome group and we we actually shared in a breakout
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  room together and I got to learn more about your business and you
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  learn more about mine. But I've read a little bit about
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  your background and sounds like you you were you born in a
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  military family like I want to kind of dive in.
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  I was like diving into the roots of an entrepreneur and what
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  drives us to become these crazy incessant learners and growers
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  and risk takers in our lives. So like what was your childhood
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  like and how did some of that instability and moving around
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  all the time and then ultimately dropping out of college.
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  I walk us through that story of how you ended up from there to
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  now, where you're at now running this company that manages $1.4
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  billion in people's self-directed IRA funds.
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  Sure. Yeah, Look, I started in the
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  middle and my dad was in the military, moved around a lot.
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  And then after he left the military, I think I was around
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  10 or 12 years old and he still moved around.
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  And so we are moving to, from state to state after three or
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  four years. And there was like a common
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  denominator. I, I really got to learn how to
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  meet new people and new friendships and new schools all
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  the time. And I, you know, as I met new
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  friends, I got to meet also parents.
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  And I don't know what it was. I don't know if it was the
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  religion, if it was the family dynamic, but I would just take
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  bits and pieces of what I would see and kind of what I wanted.
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  I didn't know at the time what I was doing.
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  Like it's easy to reflect back now and look and say, OK, This
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  is why I did it. But I can tell you I'll never
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  forget. You know, my dad would make most
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  of my games, but my dad was gone before I woke up and he worked
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  until at least dinner time every day, 6:00 or 7:00.
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  And so he worked like 12 hour days and I didn't see him, you
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  know, very often And, and so a good dad.
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  So he wasn't, he just he taught me how to work like and he was
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  very militant. I mean, he called it her lean
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  exercises on the refrigerator. You know, we rotate our chores
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  every single week. And so I learned a lot from
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  those kind of fundamental things, but I didn't learn a lot
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  about money. And I also didn't really know
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  what was possible until I went to friends houses.
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  So I'd go to friends houses and they'd have the unlimited
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  pantries. I never had a soda or a
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  appetizer growing up. That was extra ever, ever until
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  I was like, you know, married in my 20s.
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  So I bought my first soda or appetizer.
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  But that being said, I'd go to friends houses and I would see
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  their dad's home. And I remember I'll never forget
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  coming home. This is right before I dropped
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  out of college actually. And it was a Wednesday at 2:00
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  and I went by this friend's house and this new friend's
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  house and her dad was home on a 2:00 washing his boat.
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  And I only see this on TV. But I was like in college
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  studying business, couldn't really get into my degree
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  because I had a couple B's and C's.
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  And apparently you can't get into the thing you want to study
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  with AB or C, which makes no sense to me still today.
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  And I see this guy and he's washing his boat.
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  And I was like, whatever the F he's doing, I'm going to do it.
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  And he was a nice guy. And I actually, after I met him,
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  I called him the next day and I was like, hey, I met you at your
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  house. Your daughter introduced me to
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  you. I don't know what you do, but I
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  would like to come work for you. And.
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  And he said yes, which is crazy. Yeah.
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  And I dropped out of college and I wanted to, I have a boat on a
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  Wednesday at 2:00, washing it outside and have a family.
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  And that was my wife. Thankfully he wasn't selling
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  drugs or anything illegal, but he was selling a terrible thing,
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  which was life insurance, but I didn't know that at the time.
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  And so but but like that got me kind of into the whole, you
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  know, estate planning and life insurance.
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  I just got to Start learning like the real world stuff and
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  that at the I was 22 years old and that's when I kind of began
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  my career into actually real estate went from life insurance
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  first, but into real estate. So anyways, that's the that's
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  the Cliff notes. As much as I can give you as far
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  as how I got into it and why I got it was really truly I wanted
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  to be home with my kids and I wanted to live this life that I
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  saw others live that I wanted as well.
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  Did your parents give you push back when you wanted to drop out
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  of college? Not at all, not not at all.
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  Not for a second, probably because they're the ones that
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  introduced me to the guy washing the boat at 2:00, but not for
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  that reason. They introduced me to the guy's
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  daughter. They wanted me like date the
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  daughter. And so I think, you know, that's
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  how it kind of came together. But I never saw her, you know, I
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  never dated her again, not that there was anything wrong.
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  It just didn't work out. But I just took interest in the
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  lifestyle. And so my parents never had any
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  issues. My parents didn't know like they
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  didn't my mom. And, and this kind of goes part
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  of my story too, is my mom was like typical American, maybe I
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  shouldn't say typical, but like most of America, my dad worked,
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  my mom took care of the kids and she would get the statements of
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  all of the retirement accounts, all like 2 of them every month.
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  And what she would do when she got those statements is she
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  would look if the account went up or down and then she would
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  file it paper file it, right? This, that's how it worked back
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  then. She didn't know what it was
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  invested in. She didn't know.
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  She didn't know really how much my dad was putting into it, had
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  no clear vision on how to, like, truly retire.
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  And no one really cared about her retirement account.
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  And then she'd file it away and she felt like she was, you know,
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  doing good because she kept it. And that's how most of America
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  does, you know, they do this HAPHAP is the most probably
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  invested stock in the universe, which is hope and pray.
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  This is hope and pray that they put away their money, that
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  everything go as planned. And when they go to retire, it's
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  there. That's what my mom's plan was.
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  And it wasn't working. And I saw it.
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  I saw their lifestyle. I saw where it was going as far
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  as how much work is happening. And I just, I learned so much
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  from them, so many good things from them, but there's only so
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  much they could teach me. Right.
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  And so because life insurance is a pretty high income, you know,
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  most people, a lot of people that are in life insurance, they
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  make a lot of money. So what was your experience like
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  when you were working in life insurance and you just said it's
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  you think it's a bad thing. So clearly you're not a believer
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  in it. But did did you come to that
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  fruition while you were experiencing working with that
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  guy all? Right.
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  Well, let me let me preface it because my son sells life
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  insurance. Oh, OK.
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  And he is top ten in the nation and he's 23 years old.
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  So he, he, I am not a hater of life insurance, but I did not
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  like selling life insurance, in particular annuities, which is
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  what this gentleman sold was annuities.
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  So he was going out and selling annuities to individuals.
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  And those are investments, not as much in life insurance as far
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  as like the actual death benefit life insurance, but more in
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  annuities. And every time I would, I would
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  go out in a meeting, I was taking the notes, I would do
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  whatever he asked me to do. And they talk about investments
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  and every time I was sitting down listening to him, the guy
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  was my mentor. Talked to these investors, all
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  of them had success in the portfolio because of real
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  estate. That was the common denominator.
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  I learned it within before 12 months, within 8 to 12 months, I
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  was like, this keeps coming up. The passion, the returns, the
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  excitement, the understanding, always real estate.
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  The guy was with, you know, he sells some annuities.
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  People put a portion of money in annuities, which is not going to
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  say a bad thing, but it was boring.
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  It's not fun. It was like to me that would did
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  not get me any excited. But I noticed that people talked
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  about real estate and they wanted to invest in real estate.
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  And so that's where I took note. When I was 23 years old, I knew
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  that I wanted to be in the real estate world somehow, someway,
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  and that's that's when I took hold of real estate.
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  And so you made a transition at that time from life insurance to
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  real estate, and you started by flipping houses.
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  I started flipping houses after one year being with this mentor.
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  I thought I knew everything. So I left and I started my own
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  company. And so I found my first deal and
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  I flipped it and how I found the money, which is really, I'll
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  share that because that's how I got where I am today.
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  But I had no money. Like I said, my family had no
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  money. Banks wouldn't lend me money.
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  But I was around for a year with this gentleman learning how I
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  raised worked. I was learning where how banks
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  worked, where money was at. And I was just a sponge taking
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  it all in. Like, OK.
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  And I just thought because I was a sponge I could do it on my
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  own. And I did.
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  And you know, I definitely had some bumps and bruises.
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  But my first deal ever in my life when I left was I bought a
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  $60,000 condo in Las Vegas and flipped it 90 days.
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  And I found an individual that would lend me all of the money
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  with their IRA. And so their IRA lent me all the
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  money I needed. And after 90 days they got back
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  12,000 return on their IRA and putting up like 6070 thousand
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  and I got back 4000. It was a 7525 split.
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  That's what I negotiated at the time.
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  But I was like 4 grand in three months.
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  I was 23. I mean, this was 24 years ago.
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  Like this is great. And so I learned so much on just
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  that one deal alone. And that's where I began.
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  I flipped many homes over 600 homes, which I know is not like
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  earth shattering. People do that, you know, often
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  now. But it, you know, 24 years ago,
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  like, you know, with a different, you know, Internet,
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  no social media really. And it was a lot of work, but I
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  had a lot of success. That's how I got into real
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  estate is because it was, well, partly because I had to.
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  I need to make money. And I left this guy and I sold
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  like a few term life insurance policies, you know, that pays
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  the bills for a month. So how'd you get some?
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  Because you know, a lot of people who watch the show or
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  want to get into real estate investing, you know, maybe
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  they're always afraid of the down payment, right?
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  And nowadays, depending on where you live, down payments can be a
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  little bit more higher than they used to be back in the day.
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  So you said that this person invested with his IRA funds.
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  And so obviously that was a big advantage for him.
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  But how did you get him to trust you?
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  It's like a young person, it's your very first flip.
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  Was this, you know, a family friend?
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  I kind of want to dive into the importance of when we taught
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  capital raising, which you became an expert at because you
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  went on to raise over a billion dollars of, of capital
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  throughout your career. But like, what's that a most
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  important thing when somebody's just getting started in capital
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  raising to build that trust and report?
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  Like how did you build that trust and rapport and show them
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  when you didn't have a track record that you are going to be
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  a good steward of their money and actually make a return for
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  them? Because like Warren Buffett
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  says, rule #1 is don't lose money, right?
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  And so that's what, where I even struggle with this is when I'm
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  looking to partner with certain funds, you know, operators and
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  things like that. If it's their first fund and
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  they don't have a track record, I'm like, well, how do I trust
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  you? And how do I, how can I let
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  other people know to trust you too, if you don't yet have that
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  track record? So how did you go about that?
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  Oh, Hannah, that's, I think that that's such an important
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  question because I feel like now it's so easy.
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  My answer today is so different than when it was 23 years ago.
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  And I get really frustrated, frankly.
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  I'm on all these panels. I'm with celebrities that get up
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  before or after me or we go to dinner and they're like, oh, you
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  know, you find the right deal, money comes.
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  And I think that's bullshit, especially if you're just
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  starting. I mean, you can have the best
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  deal in the world. And I don't believe money just
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  comes unless you've been doing it for a minute now.
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  Now they've done it for, you know, 2025 years and you've got
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  a track. You know, when you have a track
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  record, it's so much easier. But but I wanted to say that
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  because I feel like it's unfair to so many individuals when I
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  see people thinking they're going to go out and just crush
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  it in real estate, but are brand new and they think they're going
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  to find the best deal. That's great.
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  But I always say lead with finding money because I believe
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  when you have money, you have opportunity to negotiate into
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  deals and find deals, especially when you're new in the business.
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  And so I don't have like a probably like the textbook
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  answer for you on what should an individual do?
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  I can just tell you that at that time when I was 2223 years old,
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  I did the things that I, I, I see people doing today.
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  I just worked harder and met more people.
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  I literally was going out face to face in events in, in the
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  audience, right? I was not speaking by any means,
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  but I was out meeting people, finding what they're looking
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  for, building relationships and people just liked and trust me.
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  And that's where it begins, like it or not, you know, you could
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  be fooled by someone that likes it.
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  You know, that that that you like and trust.
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  But I was just going out and I just as pounding the pavement,
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  building relationships, sharing what I was going to do.
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  I was manifesting. We were talking about
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  manifesting before this. I literally was manifesting.
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  Didn't know I was doing that before.
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  But that's what I was doing. And people believed in my energy
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  and believed in, in, in me. And I would just share.
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  And I was like, look, I mean, my first deal, I told you I offered
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  75% of the profits today. Most people are like, Oh my
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  gosh, that's too much. You gave him too much.
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  If I had to go back and do it all over again, I'd give him
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  100% of profits just to prove to them that I was the shit.
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  And, and that's what I did. I proved it.
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  And then once I did the next deal, he gave me it again.
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  But this, this, this individual who I met who, who funded my
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  first deal and invested with me till the day he died, he, you
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  know, he had like $2,000,000 and he let me 60, he let me $60,000.
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  So it wasn't like a ton. I wasn't asking for him to like
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  fund an apartment complex. And I think that's where people
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  go wrong too. They're like, oh, hey, I live in
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  Scottsdale. And so I want to like flip real
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  estate in Scottsdale in Orange County.
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  Maybe not, but that's probably not where you should start.
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  My son who's 23, he lives in Orange County and he has not
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  done one deal in real estate in Orange County.
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  He's done 25 or 26 deals in the Midwest, South Carolina and
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  Florida and Alabama. Why?
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  Because that's where he's got now a team and he can afford a
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  $15,000 down payment, right. And so, so my long answer to you
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  were is, is you need to outwork your competitors and find the
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  money. It's, it's in rooms all over the
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  place, which is why I'm in the business I'm in today.
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  I never knew that there was trillions, literally a trillions
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  of dollars in Iras with people invested in the stock market who
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  are frustrated at the market. So if you just start opening
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  your mouth and sharing and finding out people you'll,
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  you'll start building relationships, you will find the
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  money. Most people are lazy.
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  They think they're going to raise it on social media that
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  they're going to go to one event and raise the money, outwork it,
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  hustle. I mean, you know, this, this is
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  what you've done. This is, I mean, you're, I, I
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  did some research on you as well before, you know, before you
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  were in our room and where we were in San Diego River, you
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  outworked everybody else in and you built relationships.
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  And I feel like that is the number one number.
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  Those are the two top things that I give advice to my kids
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  and to people that ask me. There's no special recipe of you
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  do a webinar and a podcast and go to a mastermind.
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  You're going to have no, I mean, you got to do that times 5 or 10
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  and you'll and you'll and you'll find the money.
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  You will find the money if you wanted.
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  Yeah, day after day after day. And you never, never burn a
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  bridge. And just like you said, there's,
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  there's trillions of dollars out there that has to be working,
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  right? If your buddy's not making
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  babies and making more money, then it's dying and you're
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  losing it and it's just losing all of its value.
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  And so people are out there with the need.
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  And I had to get over that hurdle myself because I was
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  like, felt like I was asking for something, right?
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  It's like, oh, I feel bad asking for an investment or something,
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  but then it's no, I'm bringing them value.
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  I'm out here working my butt off and taking on the risk of the
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  loan and like all these different things in the
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  operations and the blood. And not my shift in you.
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  You'd probably raise more money that way.
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  Right, yeah, because it's hey, this is what I'm doing.
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  I'd love to have you a part of it, a part of it if you're
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  aligned and it's going to be win, win, all these things.
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  But it's really we're doing you a a service and we're helping
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  each other. It's a symbiotic relationship.
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  But really, I mean, if you can, if somebody that has money to
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  invest can find an amazing operator that is insanely
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  trustworthy and that can produce returns and that's going to do
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  whatever it takes to be successful.
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  I mean, that's a gold mine for the investor, right?
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  Because they don't have to go out and do that and they can
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  trust it just like that one did with you.
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  And I like that you said that you would have given him 100%
• 18:27
  because so many people want interest on their money before
• 18:31
  they put money in the bank. And you have to put money in the
• 18:34
  bank to get interest on it. And so I think it's just that
• 18:38
  givers mindset is when you're trying to build yourself and
• 18:41
  your reputation and be successful in anything that you
• 18:44
  do and scale and build these relationships like you have to
• 18:48
  earn trust because people do business with who they like and
• 18:50
  The Who they trust. And if you're just what's in it
• 18:53
  for me, which is how most people are like they go, you know, a
• 18:56
  lot of these rooms, it's a room full of takers and it's not a
• 18:59
  room full of givers. And that's why a lot of these
• 19:01
  fundraising, you know, masterminds like these family
• 19:04
  office groups or whatever, which are great in theory, but it's a
• 19:08
  bunch of people looking to take and it's not a bunch of people
• 19:11
  looking to give. And so they're not usually very
• 19:13
  successful. And usually the people with the
• 19:15
  money don't show up because they're like, this is just a
• 19:18
  bunch of takers that that want something from me.
• 19:20
  And so, yeah, it's just so important to build that trust
• 19:22
  over time and show them like, like I actually met somebody at
• 19:26
  another mastermind that I'm a part of.
• 19:27
  I'm in quite a handful, but another one I called Commercial
• 19:31
  Academy. I met him and he runs his own
• 19:33
  family office and he's in Newport Beach and all these
• 19:36
  things and he called me, you know, we just had a one hour
• 19:39
  conversation while I was there. First time we'd ever met.
• 19:41
  And he called me a couple of two days ago and he's like, hey, I
• 19:44
  want to invest with you. You know what, what are you
• 19:47
  working on some of your deals? Like all those.
• 19:48
  He's like, I, I want to bet on you.
• 19:50
  Like you, you're the jockey that I want to bet on because I just,
• 19:54
  I could just tell like I can trust you.
• 19:56
  You're in it to win it. Like you have utmost integrity
• 19:59
  and whatever's going on in the world.
• 20:01
  Like you're going to try to find a way to make sure that it gets
• 20:03
  done. And I just know that I can bet
• 20:04
  on you. And so like that.
• 20:05
  And that was from a one hour conversation of him getting and
• 20:09
  I'm sure he went off and did his own due diligence and research
• 20:11
  and things like that. But just showing people that
• 20:14
  like you are not in it to just for your own selfish needs and
• 20:17
  that you just want to take all this money.
• 20:19
  And because it's happened so many times, like a lot of these,
• 20:21
  you know, I don't want to say men does how bad, but most
• 20:25
  capital raisers have been men in general.
• 20:27
  And there's been a lot of Ponzi schemes that some people have
• 20:30
  done, which has tarnished the whole thing of capital raising.
• 20:33
  But yeah, that that trust is so important.
• 20:36
  And it takes time to build. You can't just do a webinar and
• 20:39
  have everybody trust you right away.
• 20:41
  And that's why content has been so good is because you build a
• 20:44
  relationship like day after day, you know, I spend thousands and
• 20:47
  thousands of dollars a month and hours and hours of my time and
• 20:50
  sharing all the things that I'm doing that I've paid, you know,
• 20:54
  hundreds of probably millions for at this point to learn this
• 20:57
  education knowledge and just giving that away for free.
• 21:00
  But that builds trust. Like that's putting in the
• 21:02
  giving bank account. And then when you put so many
• 21:06
  deposits into the giving bank account, the goodwill bank
• 21:09
  account, then when you do at some point ask for something or
• 21:12
  say, hey, I have this opportunity, then they're all
• 21:15
  like, Oh my gosh, you're the first person I'd go to.
• 21:17
  That's right. You didn't lead with it, That's
• 21:19
  right. Right.
• 21:20
  Yeah. So you shifted into to flipping,
• 21:24
  you had a great, you know, first flip and then how long did you
• 21:29
  do that? And because then you got into
• 21:31
  lending, right? Yeah, I got into lending really
• 21:33
  quick within 12 months because what I had found out and
• 21:37
  flipping is, I mean, there's so many moving parts as as you know
• 21:41
  and I didn't like, I, I did not like the oversight of the deals.
• 21:47
  I did not like the managing of vendors and contractors and, and
• 21:52
  I have found out really quickly that I was able to build good
• 21:56
  relationships with trust and I was also able to raise a lot of
• 21:58
  money. So I became the money partner.
• 22:01
  So then I found different people that were good.
• 22:03
  I found someone that was good at finding deals, found out someone
• 22:05
  that was good at doing the rehab and then I would bring in the
• 22:07
  money. And so that's what kind of got
• 22:10
  me initially into lending is after 12 months of flipping, I
• 22:15
  was, I was good, you know, I got my feet wet and I was like, and
• 22:19
  partly I thought I was again young and having success.
• 22:24
  Every, every deal was almost a winner, right?
• 22:26
  Because in the beginning that's how it is.
• 22:28
  And, and so I was like, all right, now, you know, I want to,
• 22:30
  you know, do a fund and a reggae fund, a Reg D fund.
• 22:34
  I want to, And so I started raising some substantial money.
• 22:36
  I was like, I'm just going to help lend, you know, raise money
• 22:39
  and, and lend to different developers and, and builders and
• 22:43
  flippers. And so I started that really
• 22:46
  young. I mean, a year after I started
• 22:48
  flipping. So I did some still a little bit
• 22:50
  of light flipping with some a small partnership, but that's
• 22:53
  when I started raising a lot of money and again transitioning
• 22:57
  to, to raising and lending money.
• 22:59
  I did probably 75 percent, 80% of all the dollars of people
• 23:05
  that worked with me did it with their Iras in the retirement
• 23:08
  accounts. And so I kind of had this
• 23:09
  boutique thing, this message of, Hey, like, did you know you can
• 23:13
  use this because your advisor probably isn't telling you.
• 23:15
  And then, and I wasn't hating an advisor, just saying this is
• 23:18
  another option. And so that's how I got into the
• 23:21
  lending world. I, I didn't like the, the fixing
• 23:25
  and flipping, but I like the money in the finance side of it
• 23:27
  and I like building the relationships out of it.
• 23:30
  And so that's all I focused on really from from one year after
• 23:33
  doing deals to to going on now, I still did deals and that was
• 23:37
  another lesson I learned as far as trying to manage too much.
• 23:40
  So I'm still doing some deals flips.
• 23:42
  But then I thought, oh, I would do my have my lending business
• 23:45
  and I'd also buy apartment complexes and hotels because of
• 23:49
  course, you know, I'm a genius at all these things.
• 23:52
  So, so I doubled down. All the money I was making, I
• 23:54
  was I was putting into bigger projects myself with partners
• 23:58
  and couple. And then there's one Tucson.
• 24:00
  I remember I did a hotel there, I actually think 1 here in
• 24:05
  Phoenix, but mostly in Vegas and in Utah.
• 24:08
  And so I was doing bigger, some bigger projects because I
• 24:11
  thought, you know, I was the man, right?
• 24:13
  And I was I could do bigger projects and also lending at the
• 24:16
  same time. So how did you go about?
• 24:20
  We have the same story because I did the same thing.
• 24:21
  Flipping hated operations, hated having to deal with
• 24:24
  subcontractors and all the stuff and too impatient to go through
• 24:27
  this whole deal cycle and love the money side, the capital
• 24:31
  market side and the relationship side.
• 24:32
  So we're super aligned on that part.
• 24:35
  But when you started raising more money, I mean, you're super
• 24:37
  young, you're starting a, a debt fund essentially.
• 24:41
  And you had this skill set, this knowledge of like, wow, there's
• 24:44
  a golden opportunity here for people to be able to lend their
• 24:48
  money out of their IRA, make higher returns, not pay taxes on
• 24:51
  it. Like tada, that sounds amazing.
• 24:53
  So what was your approach to actually go out and start
• 24:55
  raising large amounts of capital when you did decide to to break
• 24:58
  ground and again, brand new thing, no track record, didn't
• 25:02
  have a debt fund before and then going on to raising, you know,
• 25:05
  hundreds of millions. Did you partner with somebody?
• 25:07
  Were you doing marketing? Were you going to events?
• 25:09
  Did you go build relationships with all these IRA companies?
• 25:13
  Like what was your specific approach that led you to be so
• 25:15
  successful? So I did all of those things,
• 25:17
  but specifically what I did is I found individuals that had
• 25:22
  followers that had a following that had a database.
• 25:26
  So I would go and find, you know, this was a long time ago,
• 25:29
  but I'd go find the Hannahs of the world, right?
• 25:31
  And be like, OK, you've got a following.
• 25:32
  You've got to listen, oh, Hannah, you want to raise money
• 25:35
  for this next deal. Obviously it's an example,
• 25:37
  right? Let me show you if I can call
• 25:41
  your database and you introduce your database to me and my team,
• 25:44
  my 10 salespeople. We're going to call through
• 25:47
  introduce ourselves because you've introduced them to us and
• 25:51
  explain to them how they can use their IRA to invest in Hannah's
• 25:54
  next deal. So you have the database, right?
• 25:57
  So I would go to, and by the way, I did this on all levels
• 26:00
  for someone who has a small, small database of a few 100
• 26:03
  people to people that had, you know, databases of 100,000
• 26:06
  people. But they had this nest egg,
• 26:10
  these individuals, these, these CRMS and these databases, but
• 26:15
  they didn't realize how much money of, of their clients that
• 26:18
  wanted to invest with them, but had their money locked up in
• 26:20
  Iras. So I, I went, I went to them and
• 26:23
  I'd say, Hey, look, let me access this.
• 26:25
  You introduce them to us. Let's have the conversation.
• 26:27
  Let's do all our disclosures and all the other things and have
• 26:30
  our sales people call them and we'd raise dollars.
• 26:33
  We did events as well. That and events that and live
• 26:35
  events were the two things we did the live events.
• 26:38
  You know, I see different pictures and I know you've some
• 26:40
  of the not necessary people. You've recently, well, some of
• 26:42
  the people that you've also interviewed.
• 26:44
  I'd go to those events. I would negotiate with them and
• 26:46
  say, hey, look, let us talk. You know, at your event, whoever
• 26:50
  you, you know, celebrity are, you're good at this and you know
• 26:53
  the creative and they're all, but you're not good at the IRA
• 26:56
  stuff at all. Let us come in and teach your
• 26:59
  students or your audience something that they're not
• 27:02
  familiar with. They might have heard of it.
• 27:04
  Most people say they have, but they haven't Let us go teach
• 27:06
  them. And so most people love that we
• 27:08
  are going to come in and fulfill without them.
• 27:11
  Pay me. They love that I was going to go
• 27:13
  teach their students how to have success, how to lend and use
• 27:16
  their Iras and not pay taxes. And I would do it.
• 27:19
  I get on stage with thousands of people for, for years and years
• 27:21
  and years teaching them how to use their IRA, but they had the
• 27:26
  audiences. I was never good at filling a
• 27:28
  room with, you know, I tried that once with celebrities and
• 27:32
  I'm, I was, I'm not good at filling a room, but I would go
• 27:34
  to people that were filling rooms and, and get the
• 27:37
  opportunity to either be on their stage or they pay me to be
• 27:39
  on their stage. And, and so those live events or
• 27:42
  their databases, those two things, the database work just
• 27:45
  as good. And today and now it's like
• 27:46
  webinars and podcasts. But that's, that's how I
• 27:49
  literally, you know, again in my early 20s, I went and found
• 27:54
  influencers and that really move the needle and, and, and if I
• 27:58
  had to start all over again, the same thing works.
• 28:00
  When you think influencer, I think too many people think they
• 28:03
  got to get to Grant Cardone right, or Pace Morby right, or,
• 28:06
  or Hannah or whoever it may be. You don't have to start there.
• 28:10
  Like I was starting with influencers who maybe nobody
• 28:13
  knows, but they still had 10,000 followers and 1000 investors.
• 28:19
  Like that's an influencer, That's someone that can help
• 28:22
  move the needle. 30 to 40% of American adults have a
• 28:28
  retirement account. That's a huge number.
• 28:31
  So almost everybody's audience, unless you're an influencer that
• 28:36
  only has 18 year old followers, which there's those two, then
• 28:40
  maybe it's only 5%. But if they're older than that
• 28:43
  and they have some, you know, on their later 20s and 30s and have
• 28:46
  a following, that's where I began.
• 28:49
  And so, and that's also why I've got how I've gotten to learn and
• 28:52
  meet so many. Interesting celebrities, if you
• 28:55
  want to call them our influencers and you get to see
• 28:57
  who's the real ones and who's not.
• 28:58
  I mean, I get to be on stage and hear, you know, I get, you know,
• 29:02
  they get to hear how great or not great they really are.
• 29:05
  And you know, I were talking about that before the show for a
• 29:07
  minute. We were talking about like who's
• 29:08
  real and who's not. I mean that's that's a real
• 29:13
  conversation everyone should have.
• 29:14
  And so anyways, that's I'm going to different tangent there, but
• 29:18
  but that's how I that's how I began and how and I had
• 29:21
  literally 10 salespeople raising dollars all day long from these
• 29:26
  different databases. That's brilliant.
• 29:28
  Yeah. And that that ties into my
• 29:30
  friend Ben Hardy. He's one of my favorite authors,
• 29:33
  Dan Sullivan and Ben Hardy and I, His book 10X is easier than
• 29:36
  2X and also the science of scaling.
• 29:38
  Have you read those books? That first one, yeah.
• 29:40
  OK, yeah, one of my favorite books, but I love that you said
• 29:43
  that because it's so key, because if you think in terms of
• 29:47
  10X in your goal, right? So instead of I'm going to
• 29:50
  raise, you know, 100 grand for this one property that needs a
• 29:53
  loan, you're thinking, OK, I'm going to create a whole fund and
• 29:57
  I'm going to go to all of these distribution channels who and
• 30:01
  tap into their audience. So the one hour of time I could
• 30:03
  spend with the leader who has access to 10,000 people in their
• 30:06
  database is going to give me 10,000 business opportunities
• 30:12
  immediately versus going and trying to make the relationship
• 30:15
  with each of the 10,000 individual people who's only
• 30:18
  going to give you 1 sale per person.
• 30:20
  And so when you think of those levels of scale, and that's what
• 30:22
  I'm working on right now and my company right, is when I think
• 30:25
  of, OK, how do I attend XI want to go to a billion, you know,
• 30:28
  year one, I want to do 10 billion year 2.
• 30:30
  Like if that were to happen, who would I have to bring into my
• 30:34
  world? Who would have to be my clients?
• 30:35
  Who would I be spending those hours with and building those
• 30:38
  relationships and excuse me and making it a win for them of that
• 30:43
  type of like you have an affiliate program and a referral
• 30:45
  program and like these different things that you could do where
• 30:47
  they're winning from partnering with you, they're serving their
• 30:50
  audience, they're providing value there.
• 30:52
  The audience is winning. They're making money and
• 30:55
  learning things that they didn't know about that their advisors
• 30:57
  aren't telling them, right? And so I just think it's so
• 30:59
  important for everyone watching this to understand is like
• 31:02
  change your mindset to instead of thinking about just the next
• 31:06
  client, you have to get, how do you get the next 10,000 clients
• 31:09
  with that same hour of time? Yeah, because.
• 31:12
  You can and they're out. There, Yeah.
• 31:14
  And now, I mean, you can find anybody.
• 31:16
  You can find anybody that you would want to work with
• 31:19
  instantly. You just ask Claude, go on, go
• 31:22
  type in A tag on Instagram. Like it's so easy now to get a
• 31:26
  hold of people. And yeah, it's that that's super
• 31:30
  awesome that you were doing that.
• 31:32
  So I want to actually dive into IRA's because I think, you know,
• 31:37
  I worked in corporate America when I was 20 years old as an
• 31:40
  engineer and had a 401K automatically set up.
• 31:43
  And you know, I put in my 3%, they matched at 3%, they put it
• 31:46
  into some moderately, you know, aggressive, whatever thing.
• 31:53
  And that was, that was my four O 1K.
• 31:56
  And I was like, OK, this is a total fraud.
• 31:58
  It barely makes any money and I have no control over it and all
• 32:00
  this stuff. And I'm just not a huge fan of
• 32:02
  stocks in general. And so, but when I left the
• 32:05
  company and became an entrepreneur, I rolled it over
• 32:07
  into a Roth IRA because they told me I had to.
• 32:10
  And then I never touched it again.
• 32:11
  I actually just pulled up the account like a month ago and
• 32:13
  there's $20,000 in it that I haven't looked at since I was
• 32:17
  20, but but I could have been using that and adding to it
• 32:21
  through a Roth IRA. So why is a Roth IRA so amazing?
• 32:26
  How can you use it to build wealth outside of a, you know,
• 32:29
  how is it different than a Traditional IRA?
• 32:32
  Who can use it, who can set it up, and why is it so amazing?
• 32:36
  Well, the Roth IRA is absolutely the sexiest retirement account
• 32:41
  there is because it grows tax free and comes out tax free.
• 32:45
  The advantages of a young person starting a Roth is I mean, you
• 32:50
  can play with the calculator on but it, but it we're talking
• 32:53
  about millions of dollars of difference from an individual
• 32:57
  that use a Traditional IRA to a Roth.
• 32:59
  So let me explain. Most people that start
• 33:03
  retirement accounts have a traditional and they do it
• 33:07
  because there's a tax break today.
• 33:09
  So when you put X dollars in, let's say you put in $10,000
• 33:13
  into a traditional account, or seventh out, whatever the number
• 33:16
  is that you're allowed to do per year, that amount is deducted
• 33:21
  off of your income so you don't pay taxes on it, which is great.
• 33:25
  So now it's an account and it's growing and it's growing tax
• 33:29
  free. But then when whatever that they
• 33:30
  call it, $10,000 tends into $1,000,000 / 30 years when you
• 33:35
  pull out the million, you're paying taxes on the full million
• 33:38
  to $300,000 to get the tax write off here.
• 33:45
  An individual, there's a Roth doesn't get the tax write off
• 33:48
  here. So they have to pay taxes on the
• 33:50
  7000, let's say. But you put the $7000 into the
• 33:54
  Roth so you still have to pay taxes on it.
• 33:57
  But now that 7000 turns into a million, when you pull out the
• 34:00
  million, 100% of it comes out tax free.
• 34:04
  That's that's the difference between a, a traditional and
• 34:07
  Roth. But what's more exciting?
• 34:08
  I mean that I wouldn't even say what's more exciting that, but
• 34:11
  why I like it so much is there's so many incredible stories of
• 34:15
  individuals, especially creative entrepreneurs are like, oh, I
• 34:20
  want to invest in XYZ new company.
• 34:23
  I don't want to manage it. I'm not going to operate it, but
• 34:27
  typically you and I might have our LLC be a partner in it,
• 34:30
  right? We're going to put 10 or 20 or
• 34:32
  $100,000 into this new company. Well, instead have your Roth buy
• 34:37
  into that new company. And so now your Roth's the
• 34:39
  owner. And so now when this new company
• 34:41
  10X's, right? Because in the stock market,
• 34:44
  you're going to do decent returns, 6 to 10% per year
• 34:47
  depending upon what period you look at.
• 34:50
  If you're a lender with your IRA, you're going to make
• 34:53
  probably between 8 and 14%, maybe 18%.
• 34:57
  But but the upside of potential startup businesses and in
• 35:03
  businesses that may be these bigger marketing businesses
• 35:06
  where you can 10X, those are the ones you want to invest in your
• 35:09
  Roth. So now you're $10,000.
• 35:11
  A $100,000 Roth turns into $1,000,000 in 1-2 or three
• 35:15
  years. If you were to do that in your
• 35:16
  LLC, you'd probably pay 200,000 taxes or 0.
• 35:22
  And you know when you talked about, you know the number one
• 35:25
  rule, not losing money, well the number one expense is taxes.
• 35:29
  So if you can not lose your money but also not pay taxes or
• 35:35
  defer paying taxes, you and I can invest in the exact same
• 35:38
  things for the next 20 years. You could do it in your LLC or
• 35:42
  in a Traditional IRA and I could do mine and my Roth and after 20
• 35:46
  years, same exact returns. I would have somewhere between
• 35:49
  20 and probably 35% more money than you just by using a vehicle
• 35:55
  that the IRS has approved. And what's exciting about a
• 35:58
  self-directed account is you can invest in almost anything in
• 36:01
  crypto currencies and start new startup businesses.
• 36:04
  I mean, there's a few rules that you can't, but that's what's
• 36:07
  exciting from my perspective as I get to share and educate
• 36:10
  people about something that most of America has no idea they can
• 36:14
  do. Right and you say that you share
• 36:16
  what advisors don't, right, What most advisors don't.
• 36:18
  And so most advisors, as all of us know, is open up this
• 36:22
  account, put a percentage of your paycheck in it, and then
• 36:25
  we're just going to buy this index fund and you just leave it
• 36:28
  there until you're, you know, 65, right?
• 36:32
  But with the, those index funds aren't always the best rate of
• 36:36
  return or the lowest risk or the, you know, highest upside or
• 36:39
  any of these things. And if you have a self-directed
• 36:42
  Roth IRA and you have that opportunity to invest in real
• 36:45
  estate deals, real estate flips where you could make massive,
• 36:48
  you know, 234X on your money very quickly, or private
• 36:51
  lending, which just like you said, anywhere from 8 to 18% on
• 36:55
  your money and 1st lien position on real estate, which is a
• 36:58
  fairly secure position for growth or venture capital.
• 37:02
  If you were going for these big upsides.
• 37:04
  Like I was talking to a friend of mine who's in a mastermind
• 37:08
  with this guy that put $100,000 a hundred, yeah, $100,000 into
• 37:14
  SpaceX and it's where he's cashing out for 150 million.
• 37:18
  Like if that 100 gram came from the Roth IRA, 0 tax is on the
• 37:22
  $150 million gain. And so it's so cool that you can
• 37:25
  actually be an entrepreneur investor within your, your own
• 37:28
  IRA and get the tax advantages. And just like you said, it
• 37:31
  doesn't make any sense to to defer taxes now and then pay it
• 37:35
  on the whole compound and some later.
• 37:37
  And what do taxes do over time? They go up or down exactly.
• 37:43
  And so, and then if you can pair it with, if you are an
• 37:46
  entrepreneur and you have tax write offs and you could buy
• 37:49
  real estate and get depreciation and all these other tax
• 37:51
  advantages, you might not be paying taxes on it now or later,
• 37:55
  right? Because you can get it done.
• 37:56
  And that's the strategy that I've started using with my newer
• 38:01
  Roth IRA that I am now contributing to.
• 38:03
  So what is the process for somebody?
• 38:05
  Because obviously you, you can't just have an IRA and then take
• 38:08
  money out of it and go invest it somewhere.
• 38:10
  You have to have a custodian, which is what you do.
• 38:12
  So what's that process for somebody who maybe has a a
• 38:15
  Traditional IRA, they want to roll it over to a Roth IRA or
• 38:18
  they just want to open a Roth IRA and they want to be able to
• 38:21
  invest it with, you know, my real estate projects.
• 38:24
  Yeah, real estate projects, lending, venture capital, all
• 38:27
  these things. What does that look like for
• 38:28
  them? What is the cost involved and
• 38:29
  how long does it take? Yeah, sure.
• 38:31
  So I mean, that's what we do. And so and, and and we'll go
• 38:34
  back to this, I'm sure, but it's, this is not what I thought
• 38:36
  I would be doing today in my life owning a Trust Company.
• 38:40
  But to answer your question, we'll use you as an example.
• 38:43
  If, if an individual has, let's say they've got an IRA or an old
• 38:48
  4-O1K at Fidelity, a Charles Schwab or whatever it might be
• 38:51
  and like, oh, you know what, I'd like to put a portion of her,
• 38:53
  all of my money in this IRA into Hannah's deal or under her fund.
• 38:58
  It's a simple process. So it's, it's basically a call
• 39:00
  with my team and we fill out the application really with you over
• 39:04
  the phone, which most companies don't do because it is a little
• 39:07
  daunting. It's a little bit, it's new.
• 39:09
  And so we fill it out for you. We move the money from, let's
• 39:12
  say that you've got $200,000 of Fidelity, you want to put
• 39:15
  $100,000. And again, I'm just using your
• 39:18
  example on Hannah's fund, you we'd, we'd say Fidelity send
• 39:21
  over per their request $100,000 on their behalf to your account
• 39:25
  at Horizon Trust Company. So the money move over to your
• 39:27
  new self-directed IRA account with us.
• 39:31
  So half would stay at Fidelity, half would come here and once it
• 39:34
  arrives there, which takes about 7 to 10 days, once Fidelity
• 39:38
  eventually has to let it go and send it to us, they're not in a
• 39:40
  hurry to send it to us. So once they send it to us, then
• 39:44
  after it arrives within one to three days, business days, we
• 39:47
  then send that money for the request to the investment of
• 39:50
  their choice. Now we help them make sure that
• 39:52
  they don't do anything prohibited.
• 39:53
  Like you can't invest in your own like business that you're
• 39:56
  working in where you're paying yourself a salary.
• 39:58
  There's a, there's a few different rules.
• 40:00
  You can't, there's a few different deals you can't do,
• 40:02
  but it's more like arm's length kind of deals.
• 40:04
  You can invest in other people's deals and lend other people's
• 40:06
  deals. But when it comes to your own
• 40:09
  deals, you can do it. But there's some certain rules.
• 40:12
  And so the process, the whole process takes from beginning to
• 40:15
  end about 20 days, 15 to 20 days to get the money transferred
• 40:19
  over the fee. Our first year fees are 595,
• 40:22
  which is your setup and your annual.
• 40:23
  So it's doesn't matter if it's $1,000,000 account or a $50,000
• 40:27
  account, it's $595 in year 1. Every year thereafter, it's an
• 40:31
  all inclusive fee, which is an asset base.
• 40:34
  It's so as we're somewhere between 25 basis points and 100
• 40:37
  basis points, the larger the account, the smaller basis
• 40:40
  points. So like if you got a $40,000
• 40:43
  account, it's it's going to be 400 bucks.
• 40:46
  But but if it's you got like $100,000 account, it's like
• 40:50
  $600.00. That makes sense.
• 40:52
  So the larger it is, the smaller.
• 40:53
  And so it's less than my where my point is it is less than 1%.
• 40:58
  So wherever you're at most like you're paying one to 3%, the
• 41:02
  average account fee with us is 65 basis points.
• 41:05
  OK. And so are is that for the whole
• 41:08
  self-directed Roth IRA account? Every year you pay an annual
• 41:11
  fee. Yeah, and that's for the whole
• 41:12
  account. And so you can do as many wires
• 41:15
  or transfers or asset purchases you want for the Roth.
• 41:18
  And then, and just to be clear, some people get confused by like
• 41:21
  this oil. I've, you know, I heard you on
• 41:22
  the show and I want to do the the self-directed Roth account.
• 41:27
  Well, that's correct language. But just to be clear, self
• 41:30
  directing is just a descriptive words really.
• 41:34
  It's not a type of IRA. So if you have a traditional or
• 41:37
  simple or Sep, you can move that over, but it's still a simple,
• 41:41
  traditional or Sep. It's just self-directed.
• 41:44
  So it means same rules apply as far as how much you can put in
• 41:48
  and take out. The different only difference is
• 41:50
  what you can invest in when you self direct.
• 41:52
  With our company, this has been around for since the 70s.
• 41:55
  It's almost 50 years. This has been around.
• 41:58
  Only 5% of Americans do this and I think that probably only 15%
• 42:03
  of Americans should. This is not for all of America.
• 42:07
  This is for people that are going to actually read their
• 42:09
  contracts, do their due diligence, know who they're
• 42:11
  investing with. But you know, there's over 100
• 42:14
  million Iras that have over $22 trillion.
• 42:18
  And so it's, it's there's a large marketplace for people
• 42:22
  that should be self directing. Right.
• 42:24
  Yeah. Not everybody should be an
• 42:26
  investor, right? Like they should just go in the
• 42:29
  index fund and don't look at it and contribute to it.
• 42:31
  And yeah, we get that. Better than losing everything.
• 42:34
  Yeah, I hope it break. But OK.
• 42:37
  So for my own understanding, there are it's $7500 a year now
• 42:42
  I think is the limit that you can put per year into your IRA.
• 42:46
  Into your Roth, Yeah. Into your Roth, can somebody who
• 42:49
  is employed W2 employed create a self-directed Roth IRA?
• 42:55
  Yes. Now there's certain rules and
• 42:58
  and we won't go into all those six, there's lots of them.
• 43:00
  But that's why I just encourage, if you're interested in this,
• 43:04
  definitely reach out, send me a message to meet my team because
• 43:07
  there's a few different, you know, I'm not a CPAI, got to say
• 43:09
  that, right? And I'm not a financial advisor,
• 43:11
  but we can give you the insurance and outs of what types
• 43:14
  of accounts. But I will share with you is an
• 43:17
  individual who is employed can open up a Roth.
• 43:21
  There is a rule if you make too much money, you can't contribute
• 43:23
  to a Roth. But if you start a business, a
• 43:28
  marketing business let's say, and have an LLC, you can open up
• 43:32
  a self treated 4-O1K and create a Roth account.
• 43:36
  Strangely enough, you can actually get up to almost
• 43:40
  $75,000 a year contributed into a Roth.
• 43:44
  If you have a four O 1K. It's a little bit there's,
• 43:47
  there's some moving parts of that and steps.
• 43:49
  We help individuals do this every single month, but it's not
• 43:53
  for you. I want to be real clear, you
• 43:55
  should not try to figure it all out on your own.
• 43:57
  A quick simple phone call like, hey, look, I'd like to here's my
• 44:00
  situation. Here's how I'm employed here.
• 44:02
  I own a business. This is what I'm contributing
• 44:05
  in. And then we can kind of give you
• 44:07
  some recommendations to talk to your CPA about.
• 44:09
  But one of the number one things I'll say that I did and that I,
• 44:14
  I implore and ask everyone to do is start your Roth.
• 44:18
  Like now, don't wait another year or two.
• 44:20
  Start your Roth, invest it in someone or something that you
• 44:25
  understand. You will not be sorry.
• 44:27
  Right. I was just doing a video on the
• 44:29
  car drive up here with my phone saying if you invest $300 a
• 44:35
  month at an 8% compounded return for eight years, it's $1.8
• 44:41
  million. You do it in a Roth then all of
• 44:44
  that will come out tax free. Exactly.
• 44:46
  And that's even if you do a Roth and you just put it in, you know
• 44:48
  the S&P, right? You don't have to get all
• 44:51
  creative and fancy with fund managers and living.
• 44:53
  Compounding is incredible. It is it I mean that that is the
• 44:58
  most wonderful thing. If you understand it, you do it
• 45:02
  and and it will be life changing.
• 45:04
  And that's why you know, when I run into these these these
• 45:06
  farmers, literally these farmers that used to invest with me.
• 45:09
  I remember back in the day I was raising money.
• 45:10
  I was like, you know, like the most rednecky people, most
• 45:14
  beautiful people, and all of a sudden you're like, hey, here's
• 45:17
  my whatever. It's $6.4 million.
• 45:20
  I'm like, what? Because they understand it and
• 45:23
  they put away the money and they save it.
• 45:25
  So it's it's pretty cool. Yeah, farming money is a whole
• 45:28
  different level of, well, yeah, but it's true.
• 45:31
  It's anything above 0 compounded over time.
• 45:34
  David Bach, he's the author of Automatic Millionaire.
• 45:38
  Yeah, and I met him, he says $27.00 a day compounded over,
• 45:44
  you know, whatever he did 40 years or something was $4.6
• 45:49
  million or something like that. He basically calls it like a cup
• 45:52
  of coffee a day. We'll make you a millionaire if
• 45:54
  you just automate the habit. And that's the thing, people
• 45:56
  think you need all this money to invest and to build wealth and
• 46:00
  you really don't. You just need above 0 and you
• 46:02
  need it consistently every single day or week or month.
• 46:05
  Like automate it to where it's easy and you don't even think
• 46:07
  about it but. I have to say this is the part
• 46:10
  that people think they've heard it before or it's boring because
• 46:15
  we're not because I'm not showing this photo of this
• 46:18
  badass house that we fix and flip for $2,000,000.
• 46:21
  Like that's what people want to hear.
• 46:23
  And, and that I, I think it's a confusing message that is so
• 46:28
  hard to do, you know, fit flip this property on your own and go
• 46:32
  make 100 or 200 or $500,000. What everyone can do is just
• 46:37
  start putting away a little bit of money, even if it is in the
• 46:40
  index, right? That is something you can easily
• 46:44
  do. And before you know it, 5-10
• 46:45
  years later and it's just not sexy people.
• 46:48
  Just you got to do it. It's it's really fucking sexy 10
• 46:53
  years later. I know, I know that was me with
• 46:55
  my first property. I was like, oh, I'm going to
• 46:56
  make, you know, $200 a month off my rental income or whatever.
• 47:01
  And but what was it? 10 years later, I had made
• 47:06
  $250,000 on a $25,000 investment just in appreciation gain, not
• 47:12
  to mention all the cash flow. And then the rent went up super
• 47:15
  fast. So that $200 a month became
• 47:17
  $2000 a month in profit pretty quickly.
• 47:19
  And so it was nice to look back like, oh wow, this asset's
• 47:22
  actually like worth some money now.
• 47:24
  And I almost didn't buy it because I thought that it wasn't
• 47:26
  worth it, right? It's only 200.
• 47:27
  A month. That's right.
• 47:28
  Yeah. So it's amazing.
• 47:30
  So what is the mega back door? Because the Roth IRA you, it's
• 47:36
  $7500 a year that you can invest, which is, is nice, but
• 47:40
  it's, you know, if you compound it and you make good interest,
• 47:42
  it does grow and it can turn into many, many millions.
• 47:45
  But for somebody who has more than that, like let's say you
• 47:47
  want to invest 75,000 a year in your Roth IRA and be able to put
• 47:50
  that into assets and different investments and get those tax
• 47:53
  advantages. Is there a strategy to be able
• 47:55
  to do that And and who can tap into that strategy?
• 48:00
  So look, anyone that has like in your example, you've got an old,
• 48:03
  I think you said you had a different 4-O1K as well.
• 48:05
  I think maybe. I had a four O 1K but it
• 48:07
  converted. I think, yeah, OK.
• 48:09
  So most individuals that we work with have a prior retirement
• 48:13
  account like you, an old 4-O1K or an old IRA and they move all
• 48:18
  or a portion of it to us at Horizon Trust.
• 48:20
  So once it arrives there, it's not Roth.
• 48:23
  And so it's sitting there and they're about to invest in what
• 48:28
  you can do is you can convert your IRA or old 4-O1K into a
• 48:33
  Roth like you did. So the mega backdoor, you know,
• 48:36
  you're able to put in more money or transfer over money that's
• 48:40
  traditional and then pay the taxes, which we'll talk about in
• 48:43
  a second. Convert it now.
• 48:45
  Like for example, you're telling about this deal is going to 10X
• 48:48
  in the next two to five years, right?
• 48:51
  Well, if I know that's going to happen and I'm going to put my
• 48:54
  Roth or my IRA in it before I put my IRA in it, I'm going to
• 48:58
  convert my Roth or contribute more money into my Sep twenty,
• 49:02
  $30,000 into my account. And after I contribute into it,
• 49:05
  then you convert it. It's a loophole for the, for
• 49:09
  those that have accounts to convert into the Roth.
• 49:11
  Now once it's in the Roth, you can convert $1,000,000
• 49:15
  traditional into a Roth. So once you convert it, you got
• 49:18
  to pay the taxes on the full, on the whole $1,000,000.
• 49:21
  So what people are doing are doing a cost sag, a bonus
• 49:26
  depreciation on a real estate dealer too, right?
• 49:29
  So let's say you're going to have a $300,000 tax bill.
• 49:32
  Well that year you want to do a, you want to do a big bonus
• 49:36
  depreciation, ideal. So you offset the taxes
• 49:38
  completely. So now you convert your
• 49:40
  traditional to a Roth, you do a bonus depreciation on real
• 49:44
  estate deal, wipes out all the taxes, you don't pay anything
• 49:47
  and now it's a Roth. Now you invest that full
• 49:49
  $1,000,000 that's now a Roth into that deal.
• 49:52
  It's going to 5 or 10 times. Does that make sense?
• 49:54
  Right. So that's, that's what a lot of
• 49:56
  people do. They're doing a backdoor Roth.
• 49:58
  But can you contribute because I was reading something on Claude,
• 50:03
  but my my best advisor these days that says you could put up
• 50:07
  to 69,000 or 72,000 or something like that per year.
• 50:11
  That's right. You can do that per year.
• 50:14
  If if it's your 4-O1K, you can have a Roth account and put up
• 50:17
  to $72,000. That's with your employer
• 50:19
  employee match. You can do that.
• 50:21
  So you can be do you have to be an entrepreneur or you could be
• 50:24
  an employee. LLC and you'd be an employee of
• 50:27
  your LLC. OK.
• 50:29
  But this it's totally different. You can have your 9:00 to 9:00
• 50:31
  to five job at a business. And an LLC and.
• 50:34
  Then I have an LLC and I have an employer and employee.
• 50:38
  You are the employee and the employer of that LLC, right?
• 50:41
  And you can do that contribution.
• 50:42
  Yeah. Like my PLLCI pay myself a
• 50:44
  salary to me personally and then I have the LLC and I run a
• 50:48
  business in there, right, so. To get that full Max, there's
• 50:51
  things you got to pay yourself a bigger salary.
• 50:53
  There's some, there's some rules and that's why we usually talk
• 50:56
  to our clients with their Cpas to make sure we do it the right
• 50:59
  way because we don't know all your moving parts and pieces to
• 51:01
  your, your plan and what you're paying yourself.
• 51:03
  But yes, if you're looking to put away a lot of money into a
• 51:06
  Roth, there's a couple ways of doing it and you absolutely want
• 51:10
  to do it, especially in your next deal.
• 51:11
  Like if someone's like, if you know it's going to be a home
• 51:14
  run, you got to put in your Roth, Yeah.
• 51:16
  Or create a Roth. Yeah, because taxes, it's not
• 51:20
  fun and it ruins, ruins your compound.
• 51:23
  Well, when you're paying tax, I mean, if you do a compound
• 51:25
  calculator on 20 to 50% taxes each year on your returns, yeah,
• 51:33
  yeah, yeah. So, OK, so we, we really deep
• 51:36
  dived into do we miss anything on, on Ross on anything that
• 51:40
  anybody should know? No, I, I just, I, I always like
• 51:45
  when it goes into these kind of questions.
• 51:47
  I feel like sometimes the audience struggles with it.
• 51:51
  Yeah, because it's just not as fun as the sexy picture or deal
• 51:55
  we're going to 10 times. But if if you understand it or
• 51:58
  don't, the the take away should be that you do it now.
• 52:03
  It doesn't matter who you do it with and it'll be with me.
• 52:05
  But that you do it, that's the most important thing is taking
• 52:08
  action and creating this account.
• 52:09
  You won't be sorry. Yeah, yeah.
• 52:11
  Yeah, whether you're an employee or an entrepreneur or both, it
• 52:14
  just makes sense to have it as an extra vehicle that you don't
• 52:17
  have to pay taxes on when you take it out and you combine your
• 52:20
  wealth. So I love it.
• 52:22
  I'm a believer now and we need to connect about the whole mega
• 52:26
  thing too, because that would be nice, But I I I've dove into
• 52:31
  that and nerded out on it. But I want to go back to your
• 52:35
  kind of founders journey and when you lost everything in
• 52:38
  2008, because this is always been my biggest fear is you work
• 52:43
  and you build and you build these relationships and you
• 52:45
  build this trust and you grind and grind and grind and you like
• 52:47
  pour everything. You know, I was just at a video
• 52:50
  on this the other day's to be a successful entrepreneur, you
• 52:53
  have to pour every part of you into your business.
• 52:56
  You know, every ounce of energy, every dollar to your name, every
• 52:58
  waking minute of your time. Like there's periods of time
• 53:01
  where you have to pour everything and hopefully you get
• 53:03
  to the period of time where you can start to hire yourself out
• 53:06
  eventually. But that's just not reality for
• 53:08
  a startup founder when you're in this massive building phase.
• 53:12
  And so you were super young, you're having all the success,
• 53:14
  you're raising all this money, you're collaborating with all
• 53:17
  these people that are influencers and, and celebrities
• 53:20
  to be able to build your distribution and channels to
• 53:23
  grow fast. But then, you know, this was all
• 53:26
  up to the rise of 2008. And no, not many people escaped
• 53:31
  the fall of 2008. And you know, now we're in
• 53:35
  another different type of recession, volatility risk,
• 53:40
  definitely different, but there's definitely some blood in
• 53:43
  the water, some people that are in a lot of pain and going
• 53:45
  through losses right now and probably will continue to, you
• 53:49
  know, here as we progress. We're here early in 2020. 6 So
• 53:52
  what was that like? What happened when you were in
• 53:56
  that situation in 2008? How successful were you?
• 54:00
  How much did you lose and how did you mentally deal with that?
• 54:04
  Because I'm sure you've heard the story of the guy that, you
• 54:06
  know, committed suicide in Arizona who had the big lending
• 54:09
  company in the 2008 crash. And he was very well known and
• 54:11
  had whatever, 100 millions or billions.
• 54:14
  I don't remember how big his fund was, but that is such a
• 54:17
  devastating thing, right when you go out there and you build
• 54:20
  all this trust in these relationships and then something
• 54:22
  happens that you can't really control an economic Black Swan
• 54:27
  type of event. And and then people take their
• 54:31
  life and it destroys everything in their life.
• 54:33
  So like, how did you get through that?
• 54:35
  What what was that story and and how did you overcome it?
• 54:38
  So in 2000, you know, I lived in Vegas at the time and so just
• 54:44
  like it was Vegas and Phoenix were like the same then.
• 54:47
  I mean, you bought a piece of real estate, you'd wait
• 54:49
  overnight when a release happened, you'd buy a piece of
• 54:52
  real estate and then three months later you could sell it
• 54:54
  for $100,000 more. It was crazy.
• 54:57
  Well, my first, that was the first ten years of my career, I
• 55:01
  just, I thought anything I did was gold and I didn't realize at
• 55:06
  the time that anyone that anyone did was gold in real estate.
• 55:08
  It didn't matter. I just, but I thought, you know,
• 55:11
  so I was making a lot of money. I had three kids, my wife at the
• 55:15
  time when I was pregnant with the 4th.
• 55:17
  And I mean, I was already living the like a life I couldn't
• 55:22
  dreamed of. And I was 30 years old.
• 55:25
  And then when it came to a screeching halt, you know, on
• 55:28
  paper. And then I learned a lot of
• 55:30
  lessons from this. But I remember on paper, I was,
• 55:35
  I mean, I was probably worth on paper 10 to $15 million at 30.
• 55:40
  And I was like this, you know, my parents were like, yeah.
• 55:43
  And that back then, too, was like, what with inflation over
• 55:47
  the past five years, it's been probably like $50 million.
• 55:50
  Right. I mean, I was feeling really, I
• 55:52
  mean I was, I was doubling down on everything, not in a like
• 55:56
  aggressive way, but nothing failed.
• 56:00
  So I didn't know loss really. And so any money I had, I'd put
• 56:04
  in apartment complexes and hotels and I'd lend out.
• 56:08
  Well, in 2008, not only did every single loan, every loan
• 56:14
  with the default that we did. And so imagine the communication
• 56:21
  that you have got to do with investors, right?
• 56:23
  And so every loan's in default. No, nothing's paying.
• 56:27
  I was a guarantor on $25 million of bank loans.
• 56:33
  And I had three kids that were, you know, 6 and under, no
• 56:37
  forthcoming. And I remember, you know, people
• 56:43
  serving me at the house and that was really, really heavy when I
• 56:48
  say people, the banks. And so I had in my, my partners
• 56:52
  in those deals that were guarantors filed bankruptcy.
• 56:56
  And I probably should have looking back on it, glad I
• 56:58
  didn't. But I was just thought that was
• 57:00
  like, almost like just seemed like it was like a bad, like a
• 57:05
  really negative bad thing to do. And so I didn't file bankruptcy
• 57:10
  and I had to negotiate. So I was not only at zero, I was
• 57:14
  at -25 million and at 30 with the kid on the way.
• 57:20
  And I didn't, you know, that's one thing I learned too.
• 57:23
  Like I didn't tell my my wife at the time what we were going
• 57:30
  through. I mean, sure, she saw she knew a
• 57:33
  little bit, but she had no idea how bad it really was.
• 57:36
  And I just, I couldn't bear to tell her and didn't want her to
• 57:39
  stress out about it. Right.
• 57:40
  Like we got all these kids are at home.
• 57:43
  So I just was like, I got to F and figure this out like this
• 57:46
  is. And so I was at 0 and the market
• 57:50
  crash and banks were calling and I went and negotiated with all
• 57:54
  of the banks and created terms with all the banks and got a new
• 58:02
  office. And in this office, because the
• 58:05
  company went to like basically zero.
• 58:07
  I was a partner at that time. I partnered with a large firm
• 58:11
  and and it all the books went to zero and so I went and started
• 58:17
  my own company if you want to call it that, two offices.
• 58:21
  I remember the first thing I did is I got like 6 or 8 phone
• 58:26
  lines. I had no staff.
• 58:28
  I was like, someday this will be back.
• 58:32
  Manifestation. Yeah, we were just talking about
• 58:35
  right. So, so sure enough, I mean, I
• 58:38
  start and that's actually how I knew that I was actually decent
• 58:42
  at what I did because I then made money, you know, coming out
• 58:49
  of that and I started buying homes again, right?
• 58:51
  What I hated doing at the courthouse footsteps, right?
• 58:57
  Went and got some people that believed in me, got some
• 59:00
  cashier's checks and started buying properties and and rinse
• 59:06
  and repeat what I just did the prior 10 years.
• 59:10
  I just did, but I did it three times bigger in the next 10
• 59:15
  years, but started from zero. And I negotiate with all the
• 59:18
  banks. I didn't pay them all in full,
• 59:19
  but I wouldn't negotiate them. And you know the bottom down.
• 59:24
  And that's a whole nother incredible story.
• 59:27
  Of how I do that. All the Cliff notes.
• 59:30
  I prepared my bankruptcy documents and literally did.
• 59:34
  I hired A bankruptcy attorney and then I went to each of the
• 59:38
  three banks. It was me and the bank.
• 59:41
  And when the bank means like 4 people and I had my bankruptcy
• 59:45
  docs in this Manila folder as well as their notes like what I
• 59:49
  owed them and I would, I talked to them and I wasn't lying at
• 59:53
  all. But I also wanted them to be
• 59:56
  clear. Like if they push me too hard
• 59:58
  I'm filing bankruptcy and you'll get a 0 or very very little.
• 1:00:02
  And so, so I would just talk to them and tell them my situation.
• 1:00:06
  But as I talked to them, I slowly, methodically thumbed
• 1:00:10
  through my bankruptcy docs. I saw them looking at my docs,
• 1:00:15
  so they knew I was ready to file till I got to their note.
• 1:00:20
  And I'd say, all right, well, I just want you to know this is me
• 1:00:23
  I didn't bring counsel with. Me.
• 1:00:24
  You didn't tell them that you brought bankruptcy docs.
• 1:00:26
  You just had the note and all your documents.
• 1:00:28
  Yeah, my bankruptcy docs right there.
• 1:00:29
  Yeah. And just said, hey, look, I want
• 1:00:31
  to work with you. And so anyways, Long story
• 1:00:33
  short, I negotiated the $25 million down to $1.6 million
• 1:00:39
  that I had to pay. Wow.
• 1:00:40
  But that's still like when you're at 0.
• 1:00:43
  Yeah, that's a lot. That's.
• 1:00:44
  Still a lot. So I negotiated that to be paid
• 1:00:46
  out over three years and I figured out how to handle all of
• 1:00:50
  it. And so, and none of them, you
• 1:00:52
  know, didn't have to file bankruptcy, start from scratch.
• 1:00:54
  Meanwhile, I'm still trying to pay the bills and pay off my
• 1:00:57
  these. That was still like 25,000,000
• 1:00:59
  if you think about it. That's.
• 1:01:01
  So incredible It was, it was, it was the things I did and it, but
• 1:01:05
  it was all like, I didn't lie at all.
• 1:01:08
  I just, but I also knew that I, I couldn't be too fragile or too
• 1:01:12
  strong. And I mean, I, I mean, I made
• 1:01:14
  sure I wore, I wore the right everything to it, you know, no
• 1:01:17
  fancy watch. I was like, OK, this is where
• 1:01:20
  I'm at. And, and again, I wasn't lying
• 1:01:22
  at all. I just wanted, I didn't want to
• 1:01:24
  file bankruptcy and I made it through and I started over and I
• 1:01:27
  learned so much from that. So I call that really my, my,
• 1:01:31
  my. That was really kind of like my
• 1:01:33
  degree, my master's degree. I learned a lot.
• 1:01:36
  And so I'm thankful for it. And I've lived my life so much
• 1:01:40
  differently because of it. What was the main thing you
• 1:01:43
  learned from going through that? Like what did you, how do you
• 1:01:47
  live your life differently after doing that?
• 1:01:49
  And, and how do you approach investing and, and everything
• 1:01:53
  that you do differently? Because I know some people they
• 1:01:54
  go through something like that and they're like, I don't ever
• 1:01:56
  want to go through that again. And so they, they stop raising
• 1:01:58
  money, they stop going for the big lease and all that.
• 1:02:00
  So, and then other people, they're just like, screw it.
• 1:02:03
  Now I learn, I know what to do. I'm not afraid of it anymore and
• 1:02:06
  let's just keep building. So like, how did it affect you?
• 1:02:08
  And what are the the key lessons you learned from losing it all
• 1:02:11
  and rebuilding? There, there's a handful and
• 1:02:15
  thanks for asking because it it's, I think it's the most
• 1:02:17
  important thing that people should be asking.
• 1:02:20
  So thank you for asking for me. For me, it's absolutely a few
• 1:02:25
  things. One, it's it's all about how you
• 1:02:29
  sleep at night. And I didn't realize that until
• 1:02:32
  you get to you don't sleep at night.
• 1:02:34
  And what does that mean? Well, when you sleep good at
• 1:02:39
  night, you can make way better decisions and you can wake way
• 1:02:42
  more money and you're just happier.
• 1:02:44
  And So what is it for you? And in that case for me makes me
• 1:02:48
  sleep better at night. Cash in the bank.
• 1:02:51
  And so when people talk about their balance sheets, so they
• 1:02:55
  want to be billionaires, cool, whatever that is for you.
• 1:03:00
  I just want to sleep good at night and I've and that and for
• 1:03:03
  me it was cash in the bank. I don't, you know, people like
• 1:03:07
  go take out your equity and blah, blah, blah, no debt cash
• 1:03:12
  in the bank. Peace gives me Peace of Mind to
• 1:03:15
  go out and kick ass because I'm still a career.
• 1:03:17
  I'm a I'm a go getter. Don't I'm not camouflaging like
• 1:03:21
  that. I'm like passive.
• 1:03:22
  No, I'm I'm a fucking killer. But if I sleep good at night, I
• 1:03:27
  can be a killer. And when you're living a life
• 1:03:30
  where you have to make a deal happen or get a deal done or
• 1:03:34
  raise the money for it, that is so stressful.
• 1:03:37
  And then you end up doing deals that aren't so good because you
• 1:03:42
  got to do a deal. So having money in the bank is
• 1:03:45
  more valuable. So I'd rather have $1,000,000 of
• 1:03:47
  cash in the bank than ten $10 million and no cash in the bank
• 1:03:50
  on my balance sheet. When you're 25 years old, maybe
• 1:03:54
  that's not the answer because it doesn't really matter anyways
• 1:03:56
  because you can make it all over 10 times again.
• 1:03:59
  But when you're starting getting your 40s, in my opinion, and I'd
• 1:04:01
  even give us advice in your 30s because I wish I would have done
• 1:04:04
  it then money in the in the in the bank is very important.
• 1:04:09
  And then I learned the valuable lesson of no is not final and
• 1:04:14
  yes is. And so instead of saying yes to
• 1:04:17
  everything, it was relieving to say no to almost everything.
• 1:04:21
  Everyone thinks that this is the next best deal.
• 1:04:24
  I mean, you, Hannah, probably know this better than all.
• 1:04:27
  Like there's a good deal that comes across your desk probably
• 1:04:30
  every day, if not at least every week.
• 1:04:33
  And if you say no to this incredible deal today, it's OK
• 1:04:37
  because next week or next month another great deals coming.
• 1:04:42
  So sleeping well at night and learning how to say no, I think
• 1:04:46
  is very, very critical. And so that's, I think those are
• 1:04:49
  probably two big takeaways is in, you know, and when I say
• 1:04:52
  sleeping good at night is having cash and, and having those kind
• 1:04:55
  of reserves. I didn't need to have all that I
• 1:04:57
  had in assets and deals. When you have cash, you can live
• 1:05:01
  through the storm and prepare for some crazy fun stuff that's
• 1:05:03
  about to come. And then the last thing I'll say
• 1:05:06
  that has been a constant, but I learned it the hard way, really
• 1:05:10
  hard way in 2008 as well, is relationships, you know, the
• 1:05:15
  importance of good relationships, business and
• 1:05:20
  family. I mean, I missed the ball with I
• 1:05:23
  was always I've been always a present father, but I wasn't a
• 1:05:26
  good open partner of trying to protect and I could have done
• 1:05:32
  better there. And I and I have that now with
• 1:05:35
  Jessica where I just she probably wants me to say less,
• 1:05:39
  like I just want her to. I want to share because I don't
• 1:05:42
  think it's fair to the one that you love not to share what
• 1:05:46
  you're going through. And I don't give her every
• 1:05:47
  detail right, of course, but I share all the hard stuff and I
• 1:05:51
  think that's something I didn't do.
• 1:05:52
  I was young, I didn't know and I try to share and implored with
• 1:05:55
  my, my young, aggressive, creative 23 year old son who's
• 1:05:59
  married now and you know, because he hasn't lost money
• 1:06:02
  yet. So so I'm trying to share those
• 1:06:05
  kind of things with him. But those, those are probably
• 1:06:06
  the takeaways for me. His relationships are very, like
• 1:06:10
  I said, I just said family, but also business, the business,
• 1:06:13
  knowing who you're getting going to be a partner with is really,
• 1:06:16
  really important. Yeah, thank you for sharing
• 1:06:19
  that, that those are incredible lessons and so true.
• 1:06:21
  And I was just on the phone with a friend of mine a couple days
• 1:06:24
  ago talking about that financial piece is like, you know, growing
• 1:06:28
  up, I grew up in a environment that was very scarcity.
• 1:06:31
  There was never financial piece that that was not a a thing.
• 1:06:35
  And I was like, you know what I don't, I think I've ever really
• 1:06:38
  felt it like real financial piece.
• 1:06:40
  And I felt it enough to where I've had enough money and I have
• 1:06:42
  enough cash in the bank where I feel good.
• 1:06:44
  I'm like, OK, I could make it a couple years and I'm going to be
• 1:06:47
  fine. And I'll find a way to right.
• 1:06:48
  So I have a close level of peace, but it's paired with so
• 1:06:52
  much growth and reinvesting all the time.
• 1:06:55
  And so I, I actually take pretty low risks because, you know, I
• 1:06:59
  had a Ishmael on my podcast who just exited his company for 100
• 1:07:02
  and something a million in six years and get you, he was
• 1:07:05
  homeless like 6 years ago. And he just now he's got 100
• 1:07:07
  million in the bank. And he's like you, you don't
• 1:07:10
  take big enough risks. Like you, you know, you need to
• 1:07:13
  borrow money or go do this or go do that and like you need to
• 1:07:16
  hire this executive and all this stuff.
• 1:07:17
  And I'm like, but the peace, like just the level of peace
• 1:07:20
  that I have to have cash in the bank.
• 1:07:23
  And I still would like more peace.
• 1:07:24
  Like I would like 100 million in the bank.
• 1:07:26
  I don't have 100 million in the bank, but I have enough where I
• 1:07:27
  have enough peace to sleep well at night.
• 1:07:29
  Is worth not growing as fast as of course I want to grow like
• 1:07:34
  the visionary and the entrepreneur and all that stuff.
• 1:07:36
  And you still can. You can do that without.
• 1:07:38
  You have to. Have.
• 1:07:39
  Yeah. And so that's the thing, the
• 1:07:41
  goal for me is how, how much can you grow?
• 1:07:43
  How much impact can you have? How many people can you serve?
• 1:07:46
  How many goals can you accomplish while at the same
• 1:07:49
  time maintaining your level of peace and happiness and energy
• 1:07:53
  of being in the Green Zone to be able to make clear decisions and
• 1:07:56
  actually sleep well at night? That's right, because I yeah,
• 1:07:59
  it's everything and and I think that there's a lot of
• 1:08:04
  incongruency between there's the group of people that are
• 1:08:07
  capitalist hustlers, grinder, suffer pain, take risk, you full
• 1:08:12
  leverage and then there's like the Zen Buddhist like anti
• 1:08:16
  capitalism. Let's all just have peace and
• 1:08:18
  relax and have the same lives. But I like to blend both of
• 1:08:22
  them. It's like let's grow like crazy
• 1:08:25
  and and create amazing things and take risks and maintain the
• 1:08:29
  peace in the process. And that's the game that I'm
• 1:08:31
  committed to mastering. You know, that's my goal is
• 1:08:34
  committed. To mastering and you can and you
• 1:08:36
  will and you are probably, it sounds like.
• 1:08:38
  Well, thank you. Yeah, you just got to keep it.
• 1:08:40
  That's the thing. Sometimes you get out of whack.
• 1:08:41
  So, so I love that and I, I resonate with that.
• 1:08:44
  Yeah, thank you. Yeah, so I love that tactic.
• 1:08:48
  I hope I never have to use. It but.
• 1:08:50
  It's a really good one. And then you just knew you're
• 1:08:55
  going to be successful. You got your office, you were
• 1:08:58
  manifesting what you were going to create, and you rebuilt.
• 1:09:01
  And when you rebuilt, were you doing the exact same thing?
• 1:09:04
  Because I mean you started buying the properties.
• 1:09:06
  Start buying the properties that just paid the bills.
• 1:09:08
  And So what happened then after that was I had raised so much
• 1:09:12
  money from individuals with Iras and referred it to other trust
• 1:09:16
  companies. And the Trust Company service
• 1:09:18
  was so slow and just dysfunctional.
• 1:09:23
  It's like when I would say, Hannah, hey, invest in my deal
• 1:09:26
  with your IRA, you'd say, yes, I'll do it.
• 1:09:29
  OK, To do that, you need to open up an account with XIZ company.
• 1:09:32
  And so we would fill out the paperwork, their paperwork for
• 1:09:35
  you to get it there. And then we give them the
• 1:09:37
  paperwork and would take them forever.
• 1:09:39
  They drop the ball. Well, then my investors thought
• 1:09:42
  trust companies thought the Trust Company or my investment
• 1:09:45
  sucked because they sucked. So I lost dollars.
• 1:09:48
  So I was like, I'm going to start a Trust Company.
• 1:09:51
  And this was like in 2011 at the.
• 1:09:52
  Bottom market, Yeah. I mean, 2011 is official, but
• 1:09:56
  yeah, 2010 is when I started the Trust Company.
• 1:10:00
  And purely because the service sucked, It's I wanted to do real
• 1:10:06
  estate, keep doing my funds, keep raising monies, but I'm
• 1:10:09
  gonna own the Trust Company just to speed it up, to make sure it
• 1:10:11
  goes smooth. Right.
• 1:10:12
  And that's why I got in the Trust Company business.
• 1:10:14
  And then it took off. And now it's, I mean, it's
• 1:10:17
  really all that I really do. It's I love it.
• 1:10:20
  Didn't think I'd love it, but I love it.
• 1:10:22
  That's what I do. Yeah.
• 1:10:23
  And over $1 billion in that. How did you grow to over a
• 1:10:27
  billion dollars in asks? Do you have any partners in the
• 1:10:29
  company? I've Yep, I got a couple
• 1:10:31
  partners. And how did you guys, were they
• 1:10:34
  in from the beginning? Did you bring them in?
• 1:10:36
  No, I had two. I just bought out one of them
• 1:10:41
  and bought some of the interest. I couldn't afford all of it, so
• 1:10:43
  I had a partner come in who you met Alex bought the other half.
• 1:10:48
  Oh yeah. And then I have another partner.
• 1:10:50
  So yeah, we, they were my, my other partner, family member of
• 1:10:53
  mine. And so when I started, they
• 1:10:55
  started with me. So, so I'm the majority owner.
• 1:10:58
  I run it, I assume not to be running it, but they started
• 1:11:03
  about 15 years ago and I just kept my head down And it's it's
• 1:11:06
  worked out and we're about to acquire another small Trust
• 1:11:09
  Company will be over 2 billion probably the next 45 days.
• 1:11:13
  And what we're still, you know, we're kind of small still in the
• 1:11:16
  industry. There's not a lot of us, but
• 1:11:18
  we'll have about 10. We have almost 9000 clients.
• 1:11:21
  We'll go to about 11,000 clients and and we're boutique.
• 1:11:25
  We're all about service and so I'm not out to boutique.
• 1:11:28
  Of 1.4 billion. Yeah.
• 1:11:30
  I mean, yeah, yeah, we're. Was that was was a big like is
• 1:11:34
  that as considered a small Trust Company?
• 1:11:35
  1.4 billion. It seems like a big, it's
• 1:11:37
  probably average size, but like a big one would be like 10
• 1:11:40
  billion. OK, so but that's, that's never
• 1:11:43
  been my goal. I've tried to keep what you
• 1:11:45
  said. I mean, I'm really focused on
• 1:11:47
  balance, fulfilling that need of kicking ass and growing, but
• 1:11:52
  also of being home to wash the boat at 2:00 on a Wednesday.
• 1:11:57
  It's OK if you, I'm not trying to, I'm realistic.
• 1:11:59
  I want to keep a lifestyle, but also I want to give a lifestyle
• 1:12:03
  to my family and my staff. And so so it's keeping that
• 1:12:07
  balance. So it's been good.
• 1:12:09
  So are you, you know, because I'm always thinking of scaling
• 1:12:13
  and I want to scale big company but also keep that balance too,
• 1:12:16
  like we we talk about. But what do you think the
• 1:12:17
  biggest mistake is that entrepreneurs make when they're
• 1:12:19
  trying to scale? Easy.
• 1:12:23
  I doubled my business the second I got rid of all the other
• 1:12:27
  companies. Easy.
• 1:12:29
  Entrepreneurs were so bad at starting new stuff, partnering
• 1:12:33
  with other people and little deals.
• 1:12:35
  Even if it's a minority partnership, it takes away from
• 1:12:38
  your core thing. The 2nd that I went from 5
• 1:12:41
  companies to two. I went from 5:00 to 2:00 and I
• 1:12:46
  went up 10 tenfold. And that is the serial problem.
• 1:12:50
  Almost every mastermind I go to they're they leave and they're
• 1:12:53
  like, oh, I should be doing that too.
• 1:12:55
  And because I it's congruent, it's it works with what my
• 1:12:58
  business line that I already have and I can sell this and I'm
• 1:13:01
  telling. Vertically integrated, that's.
• 1:13:03
  Right, that's the mad. Those are the magic words I'm
• 1:13:05
  telling you, the people that can scale and that want to make.
• 1:13:09
  If you want to make more money, take your thing that works and
• 1:13:12
  double down on it and get rid of all the other noise.
• 1:13:15
  I'm not a big proponent. There's a few people that can do
• 1:13:18
  it. You've interviewed some of them,
• 1:13:19
  and there's a few out there that can have multiple different
• 1:13:21
  companies at all. It's all about obviously your
• 1:13:24
  team, but also that takes away a lot of times from your time.
• 1:13:27
  And so stick with the one or two things and just do it so good,
• 1:13:32
  better than anybody else. You'll scale it easily.
• 1:13:36
  Did you scale primarily from doing roll ups and buying out
• 1:13:39
  other companies and things like that are mostly just.
• 1:13:41
  This is my first roll up, is happening right?
• 1:13:42
  Now, OK, I was going. To never done it before.
• 1:13:44
  Do you wish you would have done it sooner?
• 1:13:46
  Or? Yeah, I guess you don't know
• 1:13:47
  yet, because you haven't. Transitioned.
• 1:13:49
  Yeah, well, the easy answer is yes, because I'm going to almost
• 1:13:51
  double in assets with only 2000 clients.
• 1:13:53
  But it's all I know. And that's, you know, I'm, I'm
• 1:13:57
  still like I'm not the smartest guy.
• 1:13:59
  I don't have all the experience, but one thing's always worked
• 1:14:03
  for me, being good to people and working my ass off.
• 1:14:07
  And then you find good people. And so that's, that's what we
• 1:14:10
  do. Our clients like us.
• 1:14:11
  And if they don't, I care. I mean, we got a one star review
• 1:14:14
  once in the last year and we all get, we have all fives, but that
• 1:14:17
  one star review. I'm like, well, I want to talk
• 1:14:19
  to him. I want to know what's going on.
• 1:14:21
  And they're like, well, I'm not going to change it because
• 1:14:23
  you're just trying to get your well, I said, well, I still want
• 1:14:26
  to know, like if you're not going to change, I still want to
• 1:14:28
  I I still care about those things And, and maybe that's too
• 1:14:33
  much in the weeds, but that's, it's who we are.
• 1:14:35
  So that's that's what Horizons based on.
• 1:14:39
  Yeah, the service. That's why I started the
• 1:14:41
  company. Yeah, it matters.
• 1:14:43
  It matters to me too. It's like what would keep these
• 1:14:45
  up at night is like unhappy. Client, the one on the clap, not
• 1:14:47
  all the five stars you have, but the one you're like, what?
• 1:14:50
  You really had that experience. Yeah.
• 1:14:52
  And so then yeah, yeah, yeah, that happens.
• 1:14:54
  So people say to go find a job or career and do something you
• 1:14:58
  love. So is that what you did or did
• 1:15:01
  you do something better or I'm sorry, is that what you did or
• 1:15:03
  did you do something different? And why or why not?
• 1:15:06
  I truly don't believe. I think people, young people
• 1:15:11
  especially, it's almost like a diagnosis.
• 1:15:14
  It is a cancer. I believe to teach and train
• 1:15:17
  people, they should go and do what they love.
• 1:15:20
  And, and I don't mean that in a bad way.
• 1:15:21
  Like look for those people that are there is the like top couple
• 1:15:26
  percent that you want to be an NBA athlete and you got the
• 1:15:29
  talent like you knew love it. Go go do it, right.
• 1:15:33
  But for the rest of us who look, I wanted to be an NBA, right?
• 1:15:38
  I love it. I'm I wanted to play basketball.
• 1:15:40
  I thought I was I live in Chicago.
• 1:15:41
  I did my free throws in the winter like Michael Jordan did.
• 1:15:44
  Didn't work out and most of most people either read on social
• 1:15:48
  media, believe it from social media or people tell them go out
• 1:15:51
  and do what you love. I know more people in my life
• 1:15:55
  today that are successful entrepreneurs that are making so
• 1:15:59
  much money doing the strangest things that they did not think
• 1:16:04
  they were going to do. Case in point, I talk about
• 1:16:08
  self-directed Iras. Pretty boring.
• 1:16:13
  I raised taxes. Never in my life do I think I
• 1:16:18
  was new. I fell in love with the thing
• 1:16:21
  that lets me live my lifestyle. And I think it's it's a shame
• 1:16:27
  that people aren't willing to put in the work to fall in love
• 1:16:32
  with the thing that's potentially going to give them a
• 1:16:34
  lifestyle that they're looking for.
• 1:16:36
  It's not. That's how this world is.
• 1:16:39
  And my friend who owns a pallet company, he owns a pallet
• 1:16:42
  company who thinks they're going to have a pallet company living
• 1:16:47
  his best life. And, and, but it's because,
• 1:16:51
  because business is still business.
• 1:16:53
  It's numbers, it's it's leadership, it's working with
• 1:16:55
  people, it's scaling. So fill in the blank, whatever
• 1:16:58
  it is, if there's tables or waters, whatever fall, you can
• 1:17:03
  fall in love with what you do. You don't have to go out and do
• 1:17:07
  what you love. Yeah, I couldn't agree more.
• 1:17:11
  Yeah, I was just talking to somebody I was hiring.
• 1:17:14
  I was like, you know, I don't wake up every day like super
• 1:17:17
  excited to talk about capital stacks and construction and
• 1:17:21
  development and zoning and like all, you know, DSCR ratios and
• 1:17:26
  debt, like all these things, right?
• 1:17:29
  But it's the lifestyle that it can provide.
• 1:17:31
  It's the freedom that it could bring me.
• 1:17:32
  It's the peace that real estate has been able to create for me
• 1:17:36
  and that I know it can create for other people and that impact
• 1:17:39
  that I can help make in other people's lives.
• 1:17:40
  Because I had nothing. And I didn't just follow my
• 1:17:46
  passion of riding horses every day because I knew that that
• 1:17:49
  wasn't going to lead to the lifestyle.
• 1:17:51
  I would have had to be a trainer making minimum wage.
• 1:17:53
  And then I would have hated horses because my I could no
• 1:17:56
  longer enjoy my hobby, right? And I had to grind doing mucking
• 1:18:00
  stalls and riding all day for, for a little bit of pay.
• 1:18:04
  And so I couldn't agree more. It's falling and and you have to
• 1:18:07
  be able to fall in love with that journey and that process of
• 1:18:09
  creation and not get. So like my friend is a
• 1:18:13
  billionaire. I had 43 years old, 44 maybe.
• 1:18:18
  And he's garage doors, you know, like, did he wake up when they
• 1:18:22
  be like, I'm so passionate about garage doors, right.
• 1:18:24
  But leading a company just like you said, sales, marketing and
• 1:18:27
  operations. And you can become very
• 1:18:29
  passionate about something when you start to see what it can
• 1:18:32
  create in your life and in other people's lives and the impact
• 1:18:35
  that you can make regardless of what it is.
• 1:18:37
  Yeah, like Ishmael, I just told you about him who just sold his
• 1:18:42
  company. He's like, I'm just a plumber,
• 1:18:43
  bro, you know, and, and. OK, Yeah.
• 1:18:47
  Exactly, I love when people ask him what he is.
• 1:18:50
  He's like, I'm just a plumber bro.
• 1:18:52
  But that's a. Good idea, he loves plumbing
• 1:18:54
  now. So he.
• 1:18:56
  Was able to find passion that's right in that.
• 1:18:59
  So all right, So what are you most except what asset class are
• 1:19:05
  you most excited about right now?
• 1:19:06
  Are you still like gung ho on real estate?
• 1:19:08
  You see lots of opportunity there?
• 1:19:10
  Are you dabbling anything else? Is there anything that you're
• 1:19:12
  excited about with the world of AI and and all the changes going
• 1:19:15
  on? I'm really sticking to my guns
• 1:19:18
  because of 2008, yeah, to how I diversify and what I invest in.
• 1:19:23
  So I'm investing in whole life insurance policies.
• 1:19:28
  I'm investing because they're fixed and guaranteed and they're
• 1:19:30
  protected. I'm investing in real estate.
• 1:19:34
  I lend, I like to be the lender. I like fixed rate returns and
• 1:19:38
  1st lien positions. I like double digit returns.
• 1:19:42
  And then so, you know, I'm answering your question in a
• 1:19:45
  really boring way, but then the last 15 to 20% of monies that I
• 1:19:50
  have, I am at the AI and add, you know, a little bit of
• 1:19:55
  crypto. Not at the moment, thankfully I
• 1:19:57
  got out at the right time. But anything, you know, new
• 1:20:00
  business ideas, people bring me different opportunities, but I
• 1:20:04
  used to be like reverse of all that.
• 1:20:05
  It was like 10 or 20%. Well, besides when I was lost
• 1:20:09
  everything reverse of all that. But, you know, partly it's with
• 1:20:12
  age and also seeing that, you know, deals go bad often when I
• 1:20:16
  say bad, they don't go as planned often.
• 1:20:19
  And these new things, you know, these new businesses.
• 1:20:21
  And so when I see new businesses, I get excited.
• 1:20:24
  I'm still like a junkie at heart where I love to like still be on
• 1:20:28
  the next, you know, Tesla and this, all this AI movement and
• 1:20:31
  all this automations happening, but I'm keeping it very minimal.
• 1:20:35
  So that's my, that's my answer for you is, is stay with what
• 1:20:39
  you know, invest in what you know, whatever that is.
• 1:20:41
  If it is plumbing in the plumbing industry or whatever it
• 1:20:44
  might be, invest in what you know and don't put too much in
• 1:20:47
  these other deals. Yeah, if you can't understand
• 1:20:50
  it, you shouldn't really probably be investing in it.
• 1:20:53
  So. But no, I know I don't.
• 1:20:55
  I, I haven't spent enough time and energy yet and all the AI
• 1:20:58
  stuff. But I mean, I'm around the
• 1:21:00
  coffee tables talking about it, but I'm not investing it.
• 1:21:02
  Yeah, yeah, I I do the same thing.
• 1:21:04
  I mean, especially in times of volatility like this, it's even
• 1:21:07
  a better time to double down on what you know and believe.
• 1:21:09
  Like, I'm super excited about real estate.
• 1:21:11
  You know, real estate's been hard to generate returns over
• 1:21:13
  the past few years, but due to the distress that we're starting
• 1:21:17
  to see in the markets, there's now opportunity and there's
• 1:21:20
  opportunity to buy distressed debt.
• 1:21:21
  There's opportunity to buy distressed deals and that's
• 1:21:23
  where you you clean. This is the time it's coming
• 1:21:26
  like this. It's on the brink.
• 1:21:28
  We've been talking about it being on the brink for like a
• 1:21:30
  year now. But I agree with you.
• 1:21:32
  I, I love real estate. It's definitely the place to be
• 1:21:35
  for a portion of portfolio. And I, I there's opportunity
• 1:21:38
  coming. Yeah, yeah.
• 1:21:40
  And I had asked you one question that that I should ask you, and
• 1:21:44
  I want to know the answer. We may have covered it earlier,
• 1:21:46
  but what's a major life lesson that you learned early on that
• 1:21:50
  still serves you well? I would say one that I haven't
• 1:21:53
  covered that I did think about earlier was the importance you
• 1:21:59
  and I were talking about balance of, of, you know, being a
• 1:22:03
  billionaire or whatever that means to you, whatever the
• 1:22:05
  number is and being a piece. And, and I think that one of the
• 1:22:12
  last things that really helped me scale my business, but also
• 1:22:15
  give me all the things we're talking about here, money and
• 1:22:18
  peace, was me understanding about 10 years ago that it's our
• 1:22:25
  job as an owner or founder to own your schedule, not the other
• 1:22:31
  way around. Almost all entrepreneurs are
• 1:22:34
  owned by their schedule. If there's an appointment, the
• 1:22:37
  big affiliate, the big, whatever it is big contact your, all of a
• 1:22:42
  sudden your schedule opens up. I'm really good about my times
• 1:22:47
  that I work, my days, that I work the hours that I work.
• 1:22:50
  My team knows it. So if you want to be truly
• 1:22:53
  focused and zone in and, and make more money, but have more
• 1:22:57
  peace, own your schedule. Specifically put on your
• 1:23:03
  calendar when you're working, when you're taking meetings and
• 1:23:05
  tell anyone that puts stuff on your calendar what that is.
• 1:23:08
  And once I did that, that was another game changer.
• 1:23:12
  It was, it was awesome. And all of a sudden I'm home
• 1:23:15
  more and I'm also making more money.
• 1:23:18
  Yeah. And, and I, I think most people
• 1:23:21
  forget that that you're the boss.
• 1:23:22
  Yeah, you can do that. So it's so good.
• 1:23:25
  I needed to hear that right now because I'm definitely working
• 1:23:27
  way too many hours at the moment, but everything's on the
• 1:23:30
  schedule, you know, and I put in the work blocks of focused work
• 1:23:33
  when I could have meetings, you know, now I started implementing
• 1:23:37
  Mondays and Fridays, no meetings so I could just be dialed in and
• 1:23:40
  focus because it's too easy to be busy and I get 1000 meeting
• 1:23:43
  requests a day. And they're all seem like great
• 1:23:45
  opportunities. And I'm just, that's been my
• 1:23:48
  hardest challenge is figuring out who to prioritize and say
• 1:23:51
  yes to or say no to. But I'm like, right now I'm
• 1:23:53
  booking into June. So I don't want that.
• 1:23:57
  Like I want to be able to have some freedom in my life where I
• 1:24:00
  can't take a trip this summer because I'm booking out into
• 1:24:03
  June. And yeah, exactly.
• 1:24:06
  And I'm like, I don't have to have him to plan for the trip
• 1:24:08
  because I'm in meetings all day. So yeah, it's, it's so important
• 1:24:11
  to own your, your schedule and not let your schedule own you.
• 1:24:14
  All right. So I always like to end with
• 1:24:16
  rapid fire School of hard knock style.
• 1:24:19
  How old were you when you became a millionaire?
• 1:24:21
  24. Beat me, I was 25.
• 1:24:26
  What type of business are you in?
• 1:24:27
  Business that I'm in, yeah, I'm going to finance for the
• 1:24:30
  financial space, self-directed space.
• 1:24:32
  What's the worst financial decision you've ever made?
• 1:24:35
  Putting it all in, investing every dollar and leveraging
• 1:24:39
  every dollar I owned. And what's the best financial
• 1:24:41
  decision you've ever made? Putting every dollar on me, my
• 1:24:45
  deal, I mean my business, betting on me and on someone
• 1:24:49
  else. Yeah, invest in yourself, Net
• 1:24:51
  bet on you. What do you think is the best
• 1:24:54
  book that every entrepreneur or aspiring entrepreneur should
• 1:24:57
  read? I'm just going to say something
• 1:24:59
  different. Recently, I used to be a very
• 1:25:03
  religious person. I'm not anymore, still very
• 1:25:07
  Christian, but I for the first time in the last six months, and
• 1:25:13
  this is not to be all religious, just so you know, I am reading
• 1:25:17
  the Bible from a business perspective.
• 1:25:21
  Me too. Really.
• 1:25:22
  They literally started. Yeah, I started reading.
• 1:25:25
  It totally changed the whole theme of the Bible for me.
• 1:25:27
  Oh my gosh, I actually have clawed.
• 1:25:31
  This is supposed to be your, your time to shine.
• 1:25:33
  But I have, I have clawed breaking down because I'm
• 1:25:36
  reading the Bible and I I've been, you know, getting closer
• 1:25:39
  with God. This isn't just a business
• 1:25:40
  thing. Like I have a relation with the
• 1:25:41
  Lord and I really value my faith.
• 1:25:43
  And yeah, so I'm sure we're going to get hate on this.
• 1:25:46
  I'm like, oh, you're manipulating the Bible, But no,
• 1:25:50
  so I have Claude. I read a scripture and so
• 1:25:53
  Claude's taking me through scripture, by scripture from
• 1:25:55
  page one of the Bible, every single scripture.
• 1:25:57
  And I say, please tell me how this Scripture can relate to my
• 1:26:00
  personal life and my business and my faith and who.
• 1:26:04
  Have not done that. That's exciting.
• 1:26:05
  Yeah. And so it goes like personal
• 1:26:07
  relationships, personal life to to yourself and to others, your
• 1:26:11
  business, how this shows up in leadership and execution and
• 1:26:15
  your faith in God and in your impact in the world.
• 1:26:18
  And it's amazing because like I, I love reading the Bible now
• 1:26:21
  because if I just open the Bible, I'm like, I don't
• 1:26:23
  understand what any of this stuff means and how does this
• 1:26:25
  relate to me? And it's just complicated.
• 1:26:27
  And the daily devotion is nice because it breaks it down in
• 1:26:29
  like normal terms, but it's more of just more personal stuff.
• 1:26:32
  But yeah, when AI is amazing to really help you break it down
• 1:26:36
  and translate. It I've not used AI with the
• 1:26:38
  scriptures yet. I'm going to do that, but this
• 1:26:42
  is the first time because I'm reading it from a different
• 1:26:44
  headspace, not because I felt like I was fulfilling a goal,
• 1:26:48
  right like, oh, I'm going to read the scriptures every day,
• 1:26:50
  right. And so it's like, you know, but
• 1:26:52
  now I'm like reading it from a business perspective because
• 1:26:55
  there's there's so many good stories and leaders and things
• 1:26:58
  they did that the leadership qualities are incredible and why
• 1:27:01
  they failed and didn't. And so it's that's my answer.
• 1:27:06
  The Bible. I love it.
• 1:27:07
  Yeah. There's so many amazing lessons
• 1:27:10
  of the Bible, and it's been here for us all along.
• 1:27:12
  I'm like, how come I never opened it and read it?
• 1:27:15
  It's like a manuscript for life and business and love and like,
• 1:27:17
  all these things. And I'm trying to go, you know,
• 1:27:19
  pay another coach over here. Yeah.
• 1:27:22
  That's funny. Well, good for you.
• 1:27:23
  Thanks for giving that share to me.
• 1:27:24
  I'm going to use AI with it. It's weird I use AI everywhere
• 1:27:27
  else but not there. That's.
• 1:27:28
  Good. Yeah.
• 1:27:28
  And it every day it just has the next scripture and the next
• 1:27:31
  lessons and I just pop it and it just sends me right at 8:00 AM
• 1:27:35
  every. Morning for that share I needed.
• 1:27:36
  That Yeah, of course. I love it.
• 1:27:38
  OK, what's one thing you think every American should do with
• 1:27:40
  their retirement account? Invest in real estate.
• 1:27:46
  Traditional 4-O1K or self-directed IRA.
• 1:27:49
  Self-directed, of course. Why?
• 1:27:52
  Is you're investing in what you understand and what you know,
• 1:27:55
  unlike investing in other people's deals that you have no
• 1:27:58
  idea only if you are an entrepreneur or someone who's
• 1:28:01
  going to read what they're investing in.
• 1:28:03
  Biggest money myth that needs to die.
• 1:28:05
  It's not about how much money you have on your balance sheet
• 1:28:10
  and it's not about being a billionaire.
• 1:28:13
  It's about living like a billionaire, living the life you
• 1:28:17
  want to live. And what does success mean to
• 1:28:21
  you in one sentence? Easy.
• 1:28:28
  We've been saying it the whole time.
• 1:28:29
  Peace. Yeah, peace.
• 1:28:32
  If you could send one text to your 25 year old self, what
• 1:28:35
  would it say? Love harder and let those around
• 1:28:41
  you know how you feel. And if you could leave one
• 1:28:44
  message to the younger generation, what would it be?
• 1:28:47
  Work harder and those around you, which is not very hard, but
• 1:28:52
  if you just do more and build honest true relationships, you
• 1:28:58
  will become a millionaire within years.
• 1:29:01
  Relationships and hard work. That is the recipe for success
• 1:29:05
  every time. Yep, I love it.
• 1:29:07
  Well, thank you so much Greg, you're awesome.
• 1:29:09
  How can people get a hold of you, set up their self-directed
• 1:29:13
  Iras and to follow you on Instagram, all the things.
• 1:29:16
  Just just there's only one Greg Herlene.
• 1:29:18
  There's there's no my name is not or you'll find my son, maybe
• 1:29:21
  Carson, but just just follow me or or.
• 1:29:24
  Instagram. With you, yeah, Instagram is
• 1:29:26
  great. At Greg Herlene.
• 1:29:27
  At Greg Herlene. Yep, that's it.
• 1:29:29
  Cool. Horizon Trust Company, thanks so
• 1:29:31
  much for coming out to Arizona and coming on the show, and it
• 1:29:33
  was awesome. Thanks for having me.