Latest / Wired To Hunt Podcast / Ep. 994: Foundations - The Dangers of Filling in the Whitetail Blanks
Transcript
- 0:01Speaker 1: Welcome to the Wired to Hunt Foundations podcast, your guide
- 0:05Speaker 1: to the fundamentals of better deer hunting, presented by first Light,
- 0:09Speaker 1: creating proven versatile hunting apparel for the stand, saddle or blind.
- 0:14Speaker 1: First Light, Go Farther, Stay Longer, and now your host
- 0:19Speaker 1: Tony Peterson.
- 0:20Speaker 2: Hey everyone, welcome to the Foundation's podcast, which is brought
- 0:23Speaker 2: to you by first Light. I'm your host, Tony Peterson,
- 0:25Speaker 2: and today's episode is all about why we feel the
- 0:27Speaker 2: need to fill in the blanks with whitetail hunting and
- 0:29Speaker 2: how that might not be the best strategy. As I
- 0:35Speaker 2: get older, I kind of feel like I know less
- 0:37Speaker 2: about life in some ways. Maybe that seems weird, but
- 0:40Speaker 2: I think this is just because I've grown a little
- 0:42Speaker 2: more comfortable with not knowing an awful.
- 0:44Speaker 3: Lot of stuff.
- 0:45Speaker 2: Some of it I probably should know, and some of
- 0:47Speaker 2: it is about as unknowable as stuff gets. What does
- 0:50Speaker 2: this have to do with whitetails Actually quite a bit
- 0:52Speaker 2: more than you might think, And whether you believe that
- 0:54Speaker 2: or not, we should just keep listening, because I'm going
- 0:56Speaker 2: to break down right now how we often fill in
- 0:59Speaker 2: the blank for whitetail behavior and strategies and all this
- 1:03Speaker 2: stuff and how that actually hurts us a lot of times.
- 1:09Speaker 2: Us humans are a funny lot. We don't like not
- 1:13Speaker 2: knowing stuff, and we are very very good at making
- 1:16Speaker 2: up stories to explain away the stuff we don't understand.
- 1:20Speaker 2: Religions are often founded on this principle. And before you
- 1:23Speaker 2: get your undies in a bunch over me saying that,
- 1:25Speaker 2: give me a second delay something out, think about the
- 1:28Speaker 2: explanations that come from religion, not just yours, because that's
- 1:33Speaker 2: probably the one you believe, but from some other religion
- 1:36Speaker 2: that you don't practice. You probably think their origination stories
- 1:39Speaker 2: are pure silliness because they don't make any sense to you.
- 1:43Speaker 2: Throughout history, we've concocted stories to explain where we came from,
- 1:46Speaker 2: who's in charge, what it all means to us. There
- 1:50Speaker 2: aren't a lot of Pagans or druids or whatever today, though,
- 1:52Speaker 2: but we have plenty of folks who know in their
- 1:54Speaker 2: heart of hearts what happened and what will happen. And
- 1:58Speaker 2: I promise you that those Pagans and Drews and whatever
- 2:00Speaker 2: else thought they knew too. We can look at them
- 2:04Speaker 2: now and say that they didn't, but that didn't matter
- 2:06Speaker 2: to them. A whole lot I bet we just need
- 2:09Speaker 2: explanations to calm our minds, to keep us going, to
- 2:12Speaker 2: make the whole freaking struggle seem worth it. Of course,
- 2:16Speaker 2: there's this kind of thing when it comes to the
- 2:18Speaker 2: big questions about life and death and the existence of
- 2:21Speaker 2: a purpose or lack thereof, And well, you can just
- 2:25Speaker 2: see why we want to be able to go. I
- 2:27Speaker 2: don't know, this is why, and that's all there is
- 2:29Speaker 2: to it now, as much comfort as we might draw
- 2:32Speaker 2: from that, you know, when facing our own mortality or
- 2:35Speaker 2: that of our loved ones. It's also true that we
- 2:37Speaker 2: do this with all kinds of things in life. We
- 2:40Speaker 2: are quick to write people off as something they may
- 2:43Speaker 2: or may not be, simply because it's easier than considering
- 2:46Speaker 2: a world of circumstances that conspire to create a person
- 2:49Speaker 2: and drive their motivations. Take the corporate world here. You
- 2:53Speaker 2: probably think your boss is unqualified for the job, and
- 2:56Speaker 2: the reason he doesn't give you a giant raise or
- 2:59Speaker 2: a promotion every year because he's dumber than a bag
- 3:01Speaker 2: of hammers and just doesn't recognize your talents. But maybe
- 3:05Speaker 2: he has a boss who has put really tight constraints
- 3:07Speaker 2: on his payroll and is holding him to such stringent
- 3:11Speaker 2: standards that only the top of the top performers are
- 3:13Speaker 2: gonna get anything extra, and those people have to beg
- 3:16Speaker 2: and plead for it. Everyone involved will justify their actions
- 3:19Speaker 2: and their beliefs, but not one of them will be
- 3:22Speaker 2: able to contain the full scope of their interactions and
- 3:25Speaker 2: their duties and their lives with all these other people.
- 3:28Speaker 2: There's just unknowable. So it's just easier to think your
- 3:31Speaker 2: superiors have the intellect of algae. Sometimes our desire to
- 3:36Speaker 2: just fill in the blanks is a self preservation method
- 3:38Speaker 2: to not go nuts by over analyzing something. And I
- 3:41Speaker 2: think somewhere in the deep recesses of our brains there's
- 3:44Speaker 2: just a recognition that a lot of stuff is unknowable
- 3:48Speaker 2: and there isn't a damn thing we can do about it.
- 3:51Speaker 2: I believe that in no small part to the fact
- 3:54Speaker 2: that there are a hell of a lot of times
- 3:55Speaker 2: when I can't outsmart any deer, let alone some stupid
- 3:58Speaker 2: smallmouse somewhere or I don't know, or rooster pheasant and
- 4:01Speaker 2: the cattails whatever. We labor under the delusion that we
- 4:05Speaker 2: have the answers to the questions when it comes to
- 4:07Speaker 2: the outdoors, But how often are we really just filling
- 4:10Speaker 2: in the blanks. Let me give you an example that
- 4:13Speaker 2: fell into my lap recently. One of the writers for
- 4:16Speaker 2: our site here at Meat Eater hit me up with
- 4:18Speaker 2: a question about how to find an antler list deer
- 4:20Speaker 2: on public land in Kansas, or I guess I should say,
- 4:24Speaker 2: kind of just wanted to lament that for some reason,
- 4:26Speaker 2: finding bucks was pretty easy, but finding a doe wasn't. Now,
- 4:30Speaker 2: that would be a great problem to have for any
- 4:32Speaker 2: one of us if we were looking to fill a
- 4:33Speaker 2: buck tag. But in a lot of states, when you
- 4:36Speaker 2: fill one of your buck tags, you filled all of
- 4:38Speaker 2: your buck tags. Minnesota is like that in most areas
- 4:41Speaker 2: of the state, and it sucks, but it is what
- 4:43Speaker 2: it is, So you got to choose wisely. Now, when
- 4:46Speaker 2: I try to talk through the Kansas antlerless situation, the
- 4:48Speaker 2: first thing I heard was that the does just must
- 4:51Speaker 2: not be moving in daylight. The rationale was this, The
- 4:54Speaker 2: sign was everywhere, and by that I'm talking tracks and droppings.
- 4:57Speaker 3: The bucks are there, so why not the does?
- 4:59Speaker 2: And you know they're all kind of keying on that
- 5:01Speaker 2: cut cornfield off the river bottom.
- 5:03Speaker 3: Great.
- 5:04Speaker 2: A lot of that adds up to an area that
- 5:06Speaker 2: should hold some does, but the confounding variables take this
- 5:10Speaker 2: from something knowable to something that is truly a mystery.
- 5:13Speaker 2: Let's start with the public land aspect. There is no
- 5:17Speaker 2: way to know who is hunting a spot when you're
- 5:19Speaker 2: not there, and often when you are there, maybe the
- 5:22Speaker 2: does aren't moving, or maybe they got pushed out by
- 5:25Speaker 2: a quail hunter three hours before you showed up. Public
- 5:29Speaker 2: Land is a wild card that way, but there's a
- 5:31Speaker 2: lot more. This hunter had also actually successfully arrowed a
- 5:35Speaker 2: dough in that spot not too long ago. I don't
- 5:38Speaker 2: know about you, but when I kill a deer in
- 5:40Speaker 2: an area, I just generally feel like I have less
- 5:42Speaker 2: of a chance to kill another one in the near term.
- 5:45Speaker 2: Even when it feels like that shouldn't be true, it
- 5:47Speaker 2: just often seems to kind of be so so far.
- 5:50Speaker 2: That's a couple of things that could be true but
- 5:52Speaker 2: are largely unknowable. There's another factor here where the general
- 5:56Speaker 2: firearm season was open, so you have more folks in
- 5:59Speaker 2: the woods hunting at the time than any other time
- 6:01Speaker 2: in the season. So just going out trying to arrow
- 6:03Speaker 2: a deer is a big challenge. You know, an old
- 6:06Speaker 2: dough hearing a pile of rifle shots or listening to
- 6:08Speaker 2: hunter's ride four wheelers through the pasture an hour before
- 6:11Speaker 2: first light is an old dough that isn't above heading
- 6:14Speaker 2: into the thick stuff to lay around for the daylight hours.
- 6:17Speaker 2: It gets worse, though, because in a state like Kansas,
- 6:20Speaker 2: those same rifle hunters that are out on private land
- 6:22Speaker 2: close to that public are statistically very very likely to
- 6:27Speaker 2: be hunting over a big old pile of corn. If
- 6:30Speaker 2: you want to influence the travel of deer in December,
- 6:33Speaker 2: a great way to do it is to dump a
- 6:34Speaker 2: pile of corn out and then wait. There's also the
- 6:37Speaker 2: reality of bucks being in a spot and the does
- 6:40Speaker 2: who have been chased by them for a month or
- 6:41Speaker 2: so not really being keen on being chased any longer. Now,
- 6:45Speaker 2: while the bucks and does eventually will all kind of
- 6:47Speaker 2: settle into similar bed to food patterns, there is a
- 6:50Speaker 2: time when the doughs have had just about enough of
- 6:52Speaker 2: the bucks. And now here's where things get really squarely.
- 6:56Speaker 2: In this particular situation, there are a pile of very
- 7:00Speaker 2: that could be standing between this hunter and a dead dough,
- 7:03Speaker 2: and most of them are kind of impossible to know,
- 7:06Speaker 2: So this leaves that hunter with just a few options.
- 7:09Speaker 2: The first is to decide that the circumstances are too
- 7:11Speaker 2: great to overcome and it's time to go do something else.
- 7:14Speaker 2: That's an option, even if it kind of sucks. The
- 7:17Speaker 2: second is to fill in the blanks and keep riding
- 7:20Speaker 2: a dead program, hoping that it comes back to life.
- 7:23Speaker 2: If there is anything we are really good at as hunters,
- 7:26Speaker 2: it's talking ourselves into hunting the way we want to,
- 7:29Speaker 2: even if it isn't all that productive. Or you can
- 7:34Speaker 2: accept what you don't know and try to learn about
- 7:36Speaker 2: what you can by doing something different, even if it's
- 7:39Speaker 2: only slightly different. One of the things that I've learned
- 7:42Speaker 2: in a lot of unsuccessful late season hunts, in fact,
- 7:45Speaker 2: just a lot of unsuccessful hunting in general, is that
- 7:48Speaker 2: I'm often off by just a little bit, but it
- 7:51Speaker 2: makes it feel like a lot. The deer are very
- 7:54Speaker 2: good at working around me and you, And if I
- 7:57Speaker 2: make that job easy and I offer and do, the
- 8:01Speaker 2: whole thing gets a lot harder. So the things that
- 8:04Speaker 2: we decide are unknowable, you know, we just decide they
- 8:07Speaker 2: must all be nocturnal due to the moon phase or
- 8:09Speaker 2: something else. Actually is just our way of wrapping our
- 8:12Speaker 2: egos in a warm blanket and not letting ourselves consider
- 8:15Speaker 2: that we just don't have a clue right now, or
- 8:17Speaker 2: that some style or way we've been hunting is hurting us.
- 8:32Speaker 2: So to get that clue on what to do, you
- 8:35Speaker 2: usually have to decide that, instead of declaring the deer
- 8:37Speaker 2: unkillable for some reason, that they are indeed actually killable,
- 8:41Speaker 2: just not on your current program. This is a hard
- 8:44Speaker 2: pill for a lot of us to swallow for a
- 8:46Speaker 2: lot of reasons. But if you want to become a
- 8:48Speaker 2: better deer hunter, you have to figure out how to
- 8:50Speaker 2: solve the problem that the woods and the critters present
- 8:52Speaker 2: to you. You won't be inclined to do that if
- 8:55Speaker 2: you just fill in the blanks with a perfectly logical
- 8:57Speaker 2: to you excuse for why you can't get it done.
- 9:01Speaker 3: And this happens a lot. I think that it.
- 9:03Speaker 2: Happens because we hear a lot of people talk like
- 9:06Speaker 2: they know everything about deer, and since there's no way
- 9:09Speaker 2: to check their work, the statements just stand.
- 9:12Speaker 3: Let me give you a couple examples.
- 9:14Speaker 2: You know how I feel about the deer aging thing,
- 9:16Speaker 2: where everyone just confidently declares deer a certain age by
- 9:19Speaker 2: body characteristics or rack size or both. But they don't
- 9:22Speaker 2: have to check their work, so it just stands. I
- 9:24Speaker 2: think that's bananas. But there are a lot of ways
- 9:27Speaker 2: we do this. Think about how often you or someone
- 9:29Speaker 2: you know has said that, you know, you just have
- 9:32Speaker 2: to hunt dough betting areas during the run, done and done,
- 9:35Speaker 2: just get down, win and the bucks will come. But
- 9:37Speaker 2: what dough betting areas? I've hunted so many places? Where
- 9:41Speaker 2: does bed in? A lot of areas throughout the season,
- 9:43Speaker 2: and they change depending on whether hunting pressure, the wind,
- 9:46Speaker 2: and probably about a thousand factors I don't know about.
- 9:49Speaker 2: We like to say definitive stuff like this. Hell, a
- 9:53Speaker 2: lot of people talk about bucks they are hunting as
- 9:55Speaker 2: if they know their day to day routines and that
- 9:57Speaker 2: never changes. But if that were true, so the success
- 10:00Speaker 2: rate would be a hell of a lot higher than
- 10:02Speaker 2: it is because those bucks that always do this or
- 10:05Speaker 2: never do that don't actually operate like that. Our dear
- 10:08Speaker 2: beliefs can be dangerous this way. Think about the folks
- 10:11Speaker 2: who are die hard moon phase believers, even if you
- 10:14Speaker 2: present them with studies that show collor deer seem to
- 10:17Speaker 2: be totally unaffected by the moon phase. Those folks won't
- 10:20Speaker 2: believe it, and they'll cater their hunting strategy around the
- 10:22Speaker 2: moon phase. And what does that do for them, Well,
- 10:25Speaker 2: it's going to lead them to believe they are right
- 10:28Speaker 2: because it's the only way they hunt. But if they
- 10:30Speaker 2: ignored the moon phase and started hunting, they'd realize, you know,
- 10:32Speaker 2: that what they know about deer actually isn't something gained
- 10:35Speaker 2: from broad experience, but something else that was influenced heavily
- 10:39Speaker 2: by an explanation for deer behavior that they just adopted
- 10:42Speaker 2: and held tight.
- 10:43Speaker 3: We can wait broader with this stuff too.
- 10:45Speaker 2: We might believe that the only thing you have to
- 10:47Speaker 2: do to kill a buck is to rattle on late
- 10:50Speaker 2: October mornings, right after sunrise. For some folks this is
- 10:53Speaker 2: probably very true. But for a lot of folks, you know,
- 10:56Speaker 2: like some person hunting public land in Georgia or something,
- 10:59Speaker 2: it would be a great one to not shoot any bucks,
- 11:02Speaker 2: you know, to muddy the waters further. You might think
- 11:04Speaker 2: that rattling will never work because you were only a
- 11:06Speaker 2: public land hunter in Georgia. But is that belief rooted
- 11:09Speaker 2: in reality. It's hard to say. When we use our
- 11:12Speaker 2: beliefs to keep us from trying new things, we get
- 11:14Speaker 2: into trouble. That's really where I wanted to go with
- 11:17Speaker 2: the show. I can think back to so many things
- 11:20Speaker 2: that I just knew to be true in hunting and
- 11:23Speaker 2: that guided me along certain parts of my journey in
- 11:26Speaker 2: a way that for one reason or a nothing, were
- 11:28Speaker 2: eventually exposed.
- 11:29Speaker 3: To be total bullshit.
- 11:31Speaker 2: While those revelations are super important to growth as a hunter,
- 11:34Speaker 2: we have to hunt in a way that allows them
- 11:36Speaker 2: to happen, because they mostly just won't happen by accident. Now, sure,
- 11:41Speaker 2: you might just go out to sit in the woods
- 11:42Speaker 2: to shoot a dough on October eighth, and I have
- 11:44Speaker 2: one hundred and fifty inch or walk in where you
- 11:46Speaker 2: don't expect him, and if you do pay attention, that
- 11:49Speaker 2: buck could alter the course of your deer hunting life
- 11:51Speaker 2: in a big way if you don't write off the
- 11:53Speaker 2: encounter as a total fluke. But in other ways, we
- 11:57Speaker 2: have to make something happen to see if something will happen,
- 12:00Speaker 2: if that makes any sense. If you don't believe that
- 12:02Speaker 2: you can kill big bucks in the early season in
- 12:04Speaker 2: the morning, you won't hunt mornings and guess what you're
- 12:07Speaker 2: gonna be right, or at least you'll never learn how
- 12:10Speaker 2: wrong you really are. This is where it gets tricky, though, because,
- 12:14Speaker 2: like I said way back in the beginning of the show,
- 12:16Speaker 2: there are just unknowable things, a whole shitload of them,
- 12:20Speaker 2: and because they exist and always will, we will always
- 12:23Speaker 2: be faced with the impulse to explain them away as
- 12:25Speaker 2: best we can. But what your brain comes up with
- 12:29Speaker 2: while sitting on the couch and just pondering your deerless
- 12:31Speaker 2: life is a different thing than what your brain can
- 12:34Speaker 2: do when it's tasked with going and doing the thing. Anyway,
- 12:38Speaker 2: it's hard to get comfortable with not knowing the important.
- 12:41Speaker 3: Stuff, but it's also a part of this deer game.
- 12:44Speaker 2: Instead of saying that the bucks are all nocturnal because
- 12:46Speaker 2: of the moon phase or seasonal timing, it's okay to
- 12:49Speaker 2: be like, I have no idea why I can't find
- 12:52Speaker 2: a buck right now, but I'm gonna keep looking. This
- 12:55Speaker 2: is so important I can barely figure out a way
- 12:57Speaker 2: to emphasize it enough. It's okay to hunt a new spot,
- 13:00Speaker 2: and hell, seven new spots in a week and blank
- 13:02Speaker 2: every time. You'll never truly know why you didn't see
- 13:05Speaker 2: any deer on most of the CITs, but you can know,
- 13:09Speaker 2: you know that you didn't do this or you did
- 13:12Speaker 2: do that. You know you can say, well, with this
- 13:15Speaker 2: access and this wind and the seasonal timing, I didn't
- 13:18Speaker 2: see a deer in that spot. You might not know
- 13:21Speaker 2: why the deer didn't show up, but you have enough
- 13:23Speaker 2: to try it again, or tweak the plan, to move
- 13:26Speaker 2: down the ridge and give it another shot. I think
- 13:29Speaker 2: one of the best things that ever happened to me
- 13:30Speaker 2: as a hunter was deciding that when it was possible,
- 13:33Speaker 2: I'd hunt new spots for an evening and then a morning,
- 13:37Speaker 2: as long as it made just enough sense. Now, of
- 13:39Speaker 2: course you wouldn't sit I don't know, like a beanfield
- 13:42Speaker 2: edge in the morning most likely, But for a lot
- 13:44Speaker 2: of travel route setups, there's a chance morning and evening.
- 13:47Speaker 2: And while you might have to access the same spot
- 13:50Speaker 2: from different ways, it's worth it because sometimes I believe
- 13:53Speaker 2: a spot will be an amazing morning spot and it's
- 13:54Speaker 2: a dud, but the deer go through there like crazy
- 13:57Speaker 2: in the afternoon. I might be able to figure out why,
- 14:00Speaker 2: or I might have just an unknowable thing on my hands,
- 14:03Speaker 2: But that's okay. I don't need an explanation for everything.
- 14:06Speaker 2: Sometimes I just like finding a spot where, for whatever reasons,
- 14:09Speaker 2: it's known to them, they use it at a certain
- 14:12Speaker 2: time in a certain way. We are caught in this world,
- 14:16Speaker 2: this weird world of white tails right now, where it
- 14:19Speaker 2: feels like you can know so much about them, and
- 14:22Speaker 2: if you have enough cameras and enough time and enough land,
- 14:25Speaker 2: you can know a lot about them. They can be
- 14:27Speaker 2: pretty predictable, but they mostly aren't that predictable because we
- 14:32Speaker 2: mostly can't know most of what they have going on
- 14:34Speaker 2: during any given day. If you can find a way
- 14:37Speaker 2: to take comfort in that and accept it, you can
- 14:40Speaker 2: find a way to just tease out enough knowledge on
- 14:42Speaker 2: their lives to maybe not always kill them at will,
- 14:45Speaker 2: but to always be in the game and always on
- 14:48Speaker 2: a path toward the next encounter. So, if this was
- 14:50Speaker 2: super muddy and incoherent, let me break it down before
- 14:53Speaker 2: we all move on with our lives. There's a lot
- 14:56Speaker 2: of the deer's world that we just aren't privy to,
- 14:58Speaker 2: but that's totally okay. We can try to explain away
- 15:01Speaker 2: certain behaviors or certain results from our sits, and we
- 15:05Speaker 2: might get some of them right or not. That doesn't
- 15:07Speaker 2: really matter. What does matter is that it's okay. To
- 15:09Speaker 2: admit that we don't know, and to try to learn
- 15:11Speaker 2: as much as we can about them. This only happens
- 15:14Speaker 2: one way, and it'll never happen if we decide that
- 15:17Speaker 2: we know about them something that we actually don't or
- 15:20Speaker 2: can't and then use that to try something that just
- 15:24Speaker 2: won't work or to keep us out of the woods.
- 15:27Speaker 3: You know what, Scratch that.
- 15:28Speaker 2: Trying something that might work is everything to solve the equation,
- 15:32Speaker 2: even when we don't believe that we can solve it.
- 15:34Speaker 2: This is a good time of year to just fold
- 15:36Speaker 2: our brains into a mental pretzel over this stuff, because
- 15:39Speaker 2: we can look back on the bulk of our season
- 15:41Speaker 2: and see what we did and didn't do, what worked,
- 15:44Speaker 2: and what didn't. In fact, that's what I'm going to
- 15:46Speaker 2: talk about next week, and we should use all of
- 15:48Speaker 2: that stuff and just feed the machine for the offseason
- 15:51Speaker 2: and at least help us try to think through new
- 15:53Speaker 2: plans and strategies and hopefully just kind of alter our
- 15:57Speaker 2: dear mindset so it helps us more than it hurts us,
- 16:00Speaker 2: which is always a good thing when it comes to
- 16:02Speaker 2: not only a life in general, but deer hunting. I'm
- 16:05Speaker 2: a big fan of just trying to reflect on what
- 16:09Speaker 2: I got wrong, what I got right, and how I
- 16:12Speaker 2: can do things differently. I think that's so important, and
- 16:15Speaker 2: I think it helps us to just not fill in
- 16:18Speaker 2: the blanks all the time, which is super dangerous to
- 16:21Speaker 2: our deer hunting success. So think about that. I think
- 16:24Speaker 2: about coming back next week because I'm going to just
- 16:26Speaker 2: talk about sort of my fall and review and some
- 16:29Speaker 2: of the bigger lessons that I took away from the
- 16:31Speaker 2: deer hunts that I had this year, because I think
- 16:34Speaker 2: that'll help you to do the same thing, which is
- 16:37Speaker 2: just going to set you and I up for this
- 16:40Speaker 2: long off season we're going to be facing before we
- 16:43Speaker 2: can start really shed hunting and scouting, getting into a
- 16:45Speaker 2: whole bunch of stuff. That's it for this week. I'm
- 16:49Speaker 2: Tony Peterson. This has been the Wired to Hunt Foundations podcast,
- 16:51Speaker 2: which has brought to you by First Light. As always,
- 16:53Speaker 2: thank you so much for listening. If you want more
- 16:56Speaker 2: deer content, you know where to find it. Maybe you
- 16:59Speaker 2: need pheasant content content, maybe you need a new recipe,
- 17:02Speaker 2: maybe you just want to listen to some podcasts and
- 17:05Speaker 2: veg out.
- 17:05Speaker 3: Whatever. Go to the medieater dot com.
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- 17:16Speaker 2: it out and thanks again for all of your support.