Latest / The Rave Social Podcast / 13 Content Marketing and Calling You Out with Cass Klassen

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13 Content Marketing and Calling You Out with Cass Klassen · The Rave Social Podcast

• 0:12
  SPEAKER_04: Hi everyone and welcome back to the Rave Social Podcast.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_04: I'm your host Jaden and today we have Cass.
• 0:19
  SPEAKER_04: Cass is literally amazing.
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_04: I love her so much, but she is my coach because she's just that good.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_04: And we're so excited to have her today.
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_04: So, Cass, why don't you introduce yourself and let us know kind of what you do?
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, totally.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_00: I'm Cass and I uh yeah do the online business thing.
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_00: I started my business oh so long ago as a virtual assistant.
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_00: I really uh leaned into content marketing, that was mostly what I was good at, and yeah, so much trial and error around the content stuff.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_00: And I've always had a really big value around building communities as well on social media, mainly because it just allows you to give like yourself so much more power in how you market your business.
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_00: I know a lot of people rely on the algorithm to get more reach around this time or that time or whatever it is, but that just sounds like such a sad business if you have to rely on an algorithm to me.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_00: So it's either have a community or run ads, and I am focused on the community aspect.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_00: So we love that.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, and you are so good at building a community that you build like many communities.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_04: Like I've met so many cool people through your community that like now I'm friends with.
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_04: Yay! So you're just absolutely I don't know, you're just so good at it.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_04: Um, so we wanted to talk a little bit today about the online space, a little bit about building communities, a little bit about memberships.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_04: It's gonna be good.
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_04: But let's start with online businesses and kind of what is like changing with that right now.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_00: Do you feel like so much, so much.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_00: Like you sent me the questions ahead of time, and I was like, oh my gosh, which one do I choose?
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_00: Um there have just been so many changes all the time.
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I think one of the biggest changes that I've noticed lately is I think people are becoming so much more financially like literate, like, which I think is amazing.
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_00: I think earlier on when people were getting into business, particularly like around the pandemic, I think so many people started businesses and there was such little competition, and so many people were trying to make money online that uh it just like blew people out of proportion and they didn't really know what to do with the money they were making, and it just seemed like a very scattered, crazy place.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_00: And I think especially with the like recession that's going on, I personally don't know too much about what's going on outside of Instagram, but I think in the general world there's like recession stuff going on, like I noticed like groceries cost a lot more, and I think that people are just becoming so much more intentional around how they like spend their money, which I think is amazing.
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_00: I think we used to see a lot of people do like secret offers or things that like we didn't even disclose the details, and it was exciting, and it was like have the energy, hold the energy, all of this stuff.
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm just so excited to see people be so much smarter about what they're doing with their finances.
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, and it like the consumer's behavior changes what the business landscape looks like, and people aren't really interested in just like buying bullshit courses or like investing in dumb things, like they're way more cautious about where they're spending their money because there's not just like so so much of it to go around at the current moment, and I've noticed that too, and it's like but what's weird, okay.
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_04: What's weird is I feel like but the marketing has changed towards marketing towards money, like you see so many posts that are like your first 10k, like your 10k this, your 10k that, your 100k this, your 100k that, and I'm like, literally, like that does not sound cool to me.
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_04: I don't care.
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_00: I know.
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's something that used to work.
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_00: I think it used to work, but um yeah, I think I think people are like kind of rolling their eyes at it or seeing through it, and we do see a lot of people like do a lot of mental gymnastics to make some of their claims sometimes.
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_00: It's like I'm a millionaire, but really that just means I had a 50k month one time, or like I had a hundred K month one time.
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_00: So if I made that every month, I would be a millionaire every year, but like I'm not there yet.
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_00: Like we see like so many people do like mental gymnastics like that, and even um myself, like when I was a virtual assistant or a social media manager, it's like you see the behind the scenes of the coaching space when you work for coaches, and um yeah, a lot of that happens.
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's a lot of the mental gymnastics.
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_04: I would never work for someone who did that, but I have seen inside businesses before where I've been like, this is interesting what you're doing.
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_04: But that's honestly what I loved about your content when I first found you, which is right when I was starting out.
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_04: But I would read your content and I would be like so triggered, and I'd be like, What the heck?
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_04: Like, that's not real, and then I would be like, but I'm self-aware enough to know that like if I'm triggered by something, it probably means something.
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_04: Like, why did why did that bug me?
• 5:31
  SPEAKER_04: And so I started getting more interested in your content, and I was like, Oh my god, like she so has it right, and like you pulled back all that bullshit that you see on social media, and you were just like straight to the point, stuff that actually works, actually makes sense, does matter, none of the fluff whatsoever, and none of the shitty hooks, like none of your hooks were misleading, anything like that.
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_04: And so I was just like, This is my girl, and then I was like, Yeah, she knows what she's doing.
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_04: But what that means, like, why don't you tell us?
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_04: Like, you shifted from being a VA to being like a content marketer.
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_04: How did you do that?
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_04: And like, how did you get good at that?
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_00: Oh man, so slowly, so many people just like get online and they try to like coach coaches instantly, and it's like, oh my gosh, it's just such a funny space.
• 6:19
  SPEAKER_00: But so many people try to do it so quickly, and I even see a lot of people start their businesses as a social media expert with absolutely no marketing background.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, of course you feel like an imposter, you kind of are one, like straight up to be all.
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not okay to be a beginner, but you're just a beginner.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_00: It's okay to be a beginner, but if you're saying you're an expert, of course you have imposter syndrome.
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_00: Like just own that you're a beginner.
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_00: Like you started your business and like had a marketing degree and had a background and all of that stuff.
• 6:51
  SPEAKER_00: But when people don't have those things, you don't need them.
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_00: But so often people think they need to come on and be an expert.
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_00: So, like what I did is I started as a virtual assistant.
• 7:01
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, I'll do anything, I'll I'll like do your shopping, I'll do all of the stuff, I'll plan your wedding, whatever it is.
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_00: Give me a list, I'll do it.
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_00: I love that.
• 7:13
  SPEAKER_00: And I would get a bunch of crazy tasks from clients that were like personal stuff and just like whatever, like I would do at anything.
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_00: Um, because I was like really like ready to like do the work and start a business and know that it's gonna be a long-term thing.
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_00: I know so many people get into the online business, and it's like, I want to be like a coach and a mentor, and I want to do all of this stuff, and I want to do it all fast.
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, people know that that exists and that it's not worth it if you like haven't done anything.
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_04: Why do you want that?
• 7:44
  SPEAKER_04: Like, why do you want to all of a sudden be a coach?
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_04: Like, don't you want to deliver really good results?
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_04: And like, if if the reason you want to be that way is because like you think the income is all passive and stuff, like wait until someone signs a ten thousand dollar contract with you and you can't deliver on that.
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_04: Like, that's not good.
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_04: It's not gonna be good for you or them.
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, like people think it's such such like easy, like passive money, and I think that's another thing that's changing in the industry too, is that people are being more honest about like how much work they spend on their business.
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_00: Like yesterday, I did like a solid eight hours in my business, and I had a great time.
• 8:25
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I had like three client calls, I wrote a content outline, I was doing stuff for my launch, and I did like eight hours, and I also had my OBM doing so much stuff at the same time as well.
• 8:35
  SPEAKER_00: Like, so much work goes into it, and that's not every day, but I think like people need to start like stop advertising this two-hour work day, like become a coach, and it's so easy because it like can be if you don't want to make a lot of money, but if you want to make a lot of money, you have to do a lot of work.
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_04: Exactly.
• 8:56
  SPEAKER_04: The work comes from somewhere, like it could be the corporate job that you had before, it could be like how many hours you're putting in right now, like, but you have to get the experience and you have to do the work like somewhere along the lines.
• 9:11
  SPEAKER_04: And yeah, I mean when I I mean the passive income stuff was always such a red flag to me because I'm like it just feels like a diet pill.
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_04: Like, if it if it sounds too good to be true, like it it's too good to be true.
• 9:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and honestly, I think passive income really like is almost like detrimental to some people.
• 9:31
  SPEAKER_00: Like when I launched my first course, I launched it as a passive course um like a little over a year ago, and about a month into the course, into selling the course, I decided to create a free community, like just for the people who joined it.
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_00: So even the people who'd already bought got access.
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_00: And I ran this community for um like about a year, and it was basically free.
• 9:55
  SPEAKER_00: There was no membership fees, it was just the one time you buy the course, and it was, you know, doing Q ⁇ A's all the time, reviewing people's content all the time, doing all this all the time.
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_00: And honestly, a lot of people would say, Oh my gosh, you should have charged for that.
• 10:07
  SPEAKER_00: You should have done this, you shouldn't have been doing that for free.
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_00: But I think people just uh don't understand that you need to like learn things and learn things by doing them and how beneficial that is for you, and building a community and building it and trust uh doesn't always look like charging everyone insane amounts of money, like it's just sometimes it's so much more like it makes so much more financial sense to make less money sometimes, and I think a lot of people don't realize that.
• 10:37
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, it's so true, and like start somewhere small and then build up, which is painful, you don't want to do that, but it it's like you kind of have to, and honestly, the quicker you do do that, I feel like the better the payoff is, you know.
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_04: It's like instead of just coming out of the gate with high prices and failing on two things, you have lower prices, you build it up, you get the experience, your clients love it, it's all good, and then you're on like an upward trajectory instead of like something that's a little more rocky.
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_04: Um totally and then even like the oh sorry, no, you're you go.
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_00: I was gonna say, even the um the transition from doing social media management for people into coaching, it was based on what my clients actually needed.
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_00: Like a lot of my Done For You clients, they were telling me, I love our monthly calls, I love our monthly calls, talking about content topics, talking about all of the things when I was like just creating content for them.
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_00: And I noticed that like they liked the content that I was creating for them, but the content that they would create in addition to what I was creating was so much better.
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_00: And they were saying it was coming from our calls and what they were excited about.
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_00: So when I transitioned out of Done For You into coaching, it wasn't because I wanted it to be easier, it was because I was seeing my clients getting better results by as their personal brands.
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_00: They can obviously tell a story about their life way better than I could for them.
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_00: Oh my god.
• 12:07
  SPEAKER_00: But having that talk and that conversation is really what helps them.
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_00: So I I basically did it to get people better results, not because I'm like, I want to work two hours a day and like just talk on Voxer all day and not do any work.
• 12:20
  SPEAKER_00: Like, it's so much more of the intention of who your business is serving and how you're serving them that should shape your offers, not I just want to be a coach.
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, and that's why you've gotten to be so successful, even though your Instagram account literally died.
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_04: So I feel like we should talk about that.
• 12:39
  SPEAKER_04: So your community is literally so strong that you had your Instagram account deactivated at like 14,000 followers.
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, can you imagine?
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_04: I don't know how you handled that so good, anyways.
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_04: But your community was so strong that during that time you actually had like a really, really successful launch.
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_04: And like as far as income goes, your income was great.
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, it was it was very exciting.
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, um, I am really glad I had pre-sale.
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_00: Like that was a really long launch.
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_00: I had already like done a lot of selling and you know, continued to sell quite a bit more after that launch.
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_00: And um, I'll be like honest, like I was using that marketing message to my advantage.
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_00: I was being like, look, I'm still making sales and I have two followers.
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_00: Like, obviously, I know what I'm doing.
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_00: So I was able to like use that in my marketing.
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so that's the thing about social media too, is that it's a little bit of a uh, you know, creating content about content is just like such a especially right now.
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, like so many people think like, oh, I don't have enough engagement, like you have more than me.
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_00: And it's like that's because literally everyone on social media is interested in content, and not everyone on social media is interested in raising kids or eating healthy or doing a home reno.
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_00: Like when you think about like social media managers, or yeah, yeah, like social media managers, like they might have like good engagement if you're creating social media content on social media, and that's because everyone is like potential to have interest in it.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, if you if there was an app that was only for bodybuilding and you were a bodybuilder, you'd get great engagement.
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_04: Like, I think people forget that every industry grows so differently, and every industry has like different kinds of waves of virality.
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_04: Like, you see it all the time.
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_04: All of a sudden, like a random thing will start being viral, like a business coaching content, or I don't know, there was like self-care and wellness that like had a big wave and like passive income, just like all these useless.
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_04: Oh my god, I cannot with those.
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_04: I guess do whatever you want, but like I would never.
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_04: And yeah, I think it's so interesting because they just it just changes and evolves over time.
• 14:59
  SPEAKER_04: And of course, if you're talking about how to grow on social media, on social media, like that's super appealing, and that doesn't mean your business doesn't belong on social media, it just means your growth is different.
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, exactly.
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_00: So when it comes to like creating content on content, like it, it is like very helpful.
• 15:16
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, when I lost the account of 14,000 followers, it was like Christmas morning.
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_00: I woke up to such a nice little surprise.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_00: Um it was so so crazy.
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_00: I like appealed it immediately.
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_00: I think if you ever lose your Instagram account, the listeners, uh, I there are things that you can do um to regain access.
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but I just reacted way too quickly and just like appealed it and like I should have gone on Reddit first.
• 15:45
  SPEAKER_00: Go on Reddit first if your account gets taken down.
• 15:49
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, because there are things you can do.
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_00: I think you're supposed to like uh like write your handle on a piece of paper and show it next to your face.
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_00: So you're like, look, I'm an actual person rather than just like a bot.
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_00: So uh that's someone something that someone told me after the fact, but it was too late.
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_04: Also, what the hell did you get deactivated for?
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_04: You didn't do anything, it's just so random.
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_00: So random.
• 16:15
  SPEAKER_00: I think it could just be like honestly, I'm not mad at the platform.
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_00: So many people get like mad at the platform.
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_00: How dare, like, how dare Instagram F you F you algorithm, f you this, f you that.
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_00: Like it's fucking free.
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_00: Like it's free.
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_00: You know how much money I've made for free?
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_00: It costs me nothing to sell on social media.
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_00: I don't care if they take my account down.
• 16:39
  SPEAKER_00: Whatever.
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_00: I don't pay for ads.
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_00: This is this platform is free.
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_00: I don't deserve this.
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_00: Why would I be mad at them?
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_00: That is so funny.
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_00: People are just so entitled for like a free service.
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_00: Like, can you imagine if a coach owned Instagram, it would cost you like$900 a month to use this.
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_00: One million?
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it would cost they'd be like, I make a million dollars a month, so you could as well.
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_00: So you have to pay me that much for it.
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_04: Oh, no wonder you make a million dollars a month, dude.
• 17:11
  SPEAKER_00: Oh I know.
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, I think um, yeah, I think people get way too mad at the platform.
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_00: Like honestly, I report accounts all day long that are copying me and they get taken down right away, and I'm thankful, and I'm like, that's awesome.
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_00: Like, they're just like not doing it against me, they're just trying to like like take down more scam accounts, and I think that's great.
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_00: And if I have to like get taken down in the byproduct, I'm like, that's fine.
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_00: Like didn't hurt my business any.
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, and you're already like killing it again, of course, because you're just so good at content, which brings me to my next question.
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_04: How did you get so good at content marketing specifically?
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like it's mostly um just being so, so aware of like everything.
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_00: And I would say it like even comes back to just like social awareness.
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I'm someone who's just like so aware.
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe it's an anxiety thing.
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_00: But like I'm like, oh like if I'm like in a group and like people are like, I'm like, oh, she's not happy, like, oh, they're not in a good mood.
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I'm just so aware of so many things, and I think that just really comes into social media as well, about being like hyper aware of like what this post is doing versus that post, and just like all of the little things that come into play with it, which I think is what happened a lot too, or even like if you're also an anxious person and you leave a party and you spend the next five days analyzing, was it okay?
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_00: Did I say the wrong things?
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_00: Did I do this?
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, those are my Instagram insights.
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_00: I have that ability done for me.
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, no, I we've talked about this before, but like you have to be an observer if you want to be good at I honestly feel like anything, like you have to observe like who did it before you, who's doing what you want to be doing, what are they doing differently, why is that working for them?
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_04: Not copying them.
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_04: You're not gonna copy and paste what they said, you're figuring out what they're doing.
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_04: It's deeper than the post on Instagram.
• 19:09
  SPEAKER_04: It's so much deeper than that, and you have to like observe and watch and learn, which is also why people hire a social media manager, but like if you want to be really good, I think you just have to pay so much attention.
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_00: So much attention.
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you really have to watch things, and not just what people do, but what they did.
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_00: So many people look at what people are doing who are successful, and it's like that's not how they got there, you know.
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, like you have to do a lot more in the beginning.
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_00: Um, to uh yet it's always gonna be different, especially these people who are like, oh, it's so easy for me.
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_00: I do this and I make all these sales in an hour, and it's so easy, and it's like uh it wasn't easy like five years ago when you were like building that community, you're doing this, you're doing that, like which it gets easy as it goes on.
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_00: Would be a better selling point for them.
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_04: And like people would rather hear that it wasn't always this way than to just be like, it's magic, because that doesn't make any sense.
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_00: Well, it makes people feel bad.
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_00: I think there's so much messaging around about how easy it is or how fast it is, and it's discouraging more than inspiring.
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_00: I think a lot of people are like, oh, why is it so hard for me?
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_00: What's wrong with me?
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_00: Why is it so easy for you?
• 20:19
  SPEAKER_00: And it's so hard for me.
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_04: That's literally something that I've said out loud to my partner before, but like I just don't get why it's so hard for me.
• 20:27
  SPEAKER_04: And he's like, It's literally not.
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_04: You're killing it.
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_04: What do you mean?
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_04: And I'm like, yeah, because the people on Instagram really want you to feel for whatever reason, like you're not getting it right, and it does not make sense.
• 20:40
  SPEAKER_04: It doesn't make sense.
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_00: Totally.
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_00: And I hear from so many people when it comes to showing up on stories and showing their life and all this, and they're like, Well, I'm just in my house all day.
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, so is everyone else.
• 20:51
  SPEAKER_00: Like, literally show them that it can be fun and it's like not exciting, but it's like chill.
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I think about when I started my business, a huge reason is that I was working from home and there was a lot of downtime, so I'd watch a lot of YouTube videos.
• 21:05
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and it was I would watch a lot of Emma Chamberlain, and around that time she was doing the most boring shit.
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_00: Like her content video, her videos would just be called like bed.
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_00: Like I went to the store, and it was just her doing little errands, being on her laptop, doing little things, and I was like, that's what I want.
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_00: That's what I want.
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_00: I want to do little bits of work and run errands, and I don't want it to be exciting, I don't want to go on private jets, go to do crazy things.
• 21:31
  SPEAKER_00: Like, this is what I want my life to look like.
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_00: I finally found my dream job.
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_00: So I like turned it into the virtual assistant thing, and I was just so inspired by I get to be in my house when I want to be.
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_00: I get to do little errands, do little things.
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_00: And that is so inspiring.
• 21:45
  SPEAKER_00: So when people come to me and they're like, I can't post things on my stories because I don't have a product bag and I'm not flying in jets and I'm not showing people that I have wealth, it's like whatever like your dream is, like you're living someone's dream right now.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: Like show up like it.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_04: For real, you are.
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_04: And a lot of people don't even like resonate with wanting those material things either.
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_04: Honestly, my favorite accounts are pretty boring.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_04: Exactly like what you're saying.
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_04: Like, they're not nothing crazy is going on.
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_04: They're like in their kitchen.
• 22:17
  SPEAKER_04: And I'm like, this is a total lag.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_04: I love it.
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_00: I think people just crave so much of that realness.
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_00: Like the days of like marketing or doing a photo shoot with like a money gun, like those are over.
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_03: Oh boy.
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_03: Those are interesting.
• 22:34
  SPEAKER_03: I do remember that.
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_00: People doing like photo shoots with like stacks of cash.
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_00: It's like I would so much rather see what your savings account looks like.
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_00: Like that's so much sexier.
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_03: Or like, are you sleeping good?
• 22:47
  SPEAKER_03: Like, are you how's everything going?
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, like how many times did you make it to the gym this week?
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_00: Like, are did you literally take like 500 steps today and you're showing us your health?
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_04: Don't call me out like that.
• 23:02
  SPEAKER_04: No, it's just true.
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_04: And okay, so one thing else, one other thing that we've talked about before is like you have to like we touched on this earlier actually, but I want to apply it to content, and it's like you have to practice to get good at it.
• 23:17
  SPEAKER_04: And I think people want to post like two times a week and be like, you can be successful posting twice a week.
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_04: But in reality, like it takes a lot more than that because you need to learn, you need to learn it.
• 23:29
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely.
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_00: I think the best thing that I ever did for my content when I first started getting intentional about content, um, you know, I was like a service provider originally, a virtual assistant, social media, whatever, and I would post like maybe once a week, a couple little times here and there, just because I was supposed to, or when I needed a client.
• 23:49
  SPEAKER_00: But when I decided, okay, I want to like actually have a business and actually scale and actually not have to struggle every time a client leaves, I'm actually gonna show up and post a lot.
• 23:58
  SPEAKER_00: So I created a month's worth of content in one day, and I scheduled it all to auto-post.
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_00: And then I just like walked away and I was able to create the content and have data.
• 24:10
  SPEAKER_00: The biggest thing about not posting often or posting inconsistently is that your data is gonna be consistent.
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_00: So no, you don't know what your audience likes, you don't know what sells, you don't know what engages, you don't know what reaches, because you don't have enough data to look at your insights and figure that out.
• 24:28
  SPEAKER_00: So, especially for new accounts, I'm like post every day, like figure it out.
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_00: If you don't know what gets most engagement, if you don't know what gets the most reach based on your messaging and other aspects, you need to create a lot of content to figure it out, not just once.
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_00: So many people will post one thing one time and they're like how-tos do really well.
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_00: It's like you posted a how-to like one time.
• 24:51
  SPEAKER_00: Like you have to have data if you want to say this works.
• 24:55
  SPEAKER_04: You do have to have data to say this works.
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_04: And I just think, yeah, that the process of creating and posting the content consistently teaches you so much about how you work, what you care about, what works for you, and then what also is successful on social media.
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_04: And when you just only will post a couple times, it's like it's just maintenance.
• 25:18
  SPEAKER_04: It's like, yeah, you're here, you're posting, but you're probably not gonna learn a lot from that content.
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_04: Your audience may not love it, and you may not see the growth that you want to see, whether that's a growth in your community, in your reach, and your followers, and your sales, whatever it is, like you're probably not really gonna see that until you get to a point where you do know what works.
• 25:37
  SPEAKER_04: And then it's like, yeah, you can post three times, five times a week and continue to see that growth or whatever, but early on, that's not really how it's gonna work.
• 25:48
  SPEAKER_00: No, it's so true.
• 25:49
  SPEAKER_00: And even when people are like maintaining their audience, I always like tell people if you're just trying to maintain your audience, you're really priming them to buy from your competitors because you're creating awareness, you're telling them, um, you're telling them like you need this, you're talking about this offer that you offer, or just like the problems that you solve and blah blah blah.
• 26:10
  SPEAKER_00: But you if you aren't selling at the same time, if you aren't showing up regularly, they're gonna see your post and be like, oh, interesting.
• 26:17
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, and that's gonna register with them, but it's not gonna register with you because you're not consistent.
• 26:22
  SPEAKER_00: You're just registering in their mind within that concept, which they will then go take and buy from someone else who is consistent.
• 26:29
  SPEAKER_00: I've done the selling.
• 26:31
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, someone should be able to do that.
• 26:33
  SPEAKER_04: If you're not, if you're not selling, like this was a big breakthrough for me recently, but like if you're not selling, people are not gonna buy from you because they aren't gonna do the work that you're supposed to do as the business owner.
• 26:47
  SPEAKER_04: Like, they're not gonna do the work of going to your LinkedIn bio, seeing what you offer, looking through your stuff.
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_04: Like, they don't want to do that work, and they're literally just not gonna do it.
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_04: They're gonna go with the person who does that work for them, shows up in their stories, explains why they need this product or service or whatever, and links it for them so that it's like literally the easiest thing they could do.
• 27:09
  SPEAKER_04: Stop making it hard for the people that you want to work with you.
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_00: Totally.
• 27:14
  SPEAKER_00: People make it so hard for people to work with them, and I don't think, yeah, I don't think people realize that a lot.
• 27:19
  SPEAKER_00: I think so many people just think of their ideal clients as that person who's actively looking for what they do.
• 27:25
  SPEAKER_00: So I mean that does happen.
• 27:27
  SPEAKER_00: If someone needs a social media manager, they go look for one, they book three calls and hire whoever charges the least.
• 27:35
  SPEAKER_00: But that's not probably gonna be your ideal client.
• 27:38
  SPEAKER_00: Your ideal client will likely, from my experience, is gonna be someone who has followed you and been like, oh, like Cass's my girl, Jaden's my girl.
• 27:46
  SPEAKER_00: When I'm ready, I'm gonna inquire.
• 27:48
  SPEAKER_00: But that's when you have to continue to sell, to continue to remind them, stay on top of mind.
• 27:54
  SPEAKER_00: And um maybe like when they're gonna be ready, like today or tomorrow or next week, like your messages is what's gonna like make them more ready and prepared and more confident in that you're the right person for them.
• 28:07
  SPEAKER_04: I am so excited to extend this offer to all of my podcast listeners.
• 28:12
  SPEAKER_04: If you didn't know, we just launched intentional Instagram.
• 28:15
  SPEAKER_04: This course is for anyone who is looking to bridge that gap between actually reaching their ideal audience and converting them into paying customers.
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_04: So this is for you if you're posting every day but you are not seeing the payoff.
• 28:31
  SPEAKER_04: You can't seem to reach the audience that actually wants and needs your offer, and you're overwhelmed and frustrated with how much time Instagram is taking away from your business.
• 28:41
  SPEAKER_04: Get ready to say goodbye to all of that and start showing up for your community on Instagram every day in under 30 minutes and with a lot more fun, and spend way more time at the beach going for your hot girl walks or working on your next big thing, and also making more money with the content that you're already posting every single day.
• 29:02
  SPEAKER_04: If you're listening to this and you want to get intentional Instagram, head to the link in the show notes and use code podcast for 20% off.
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_04: I will see you there.
• 29:13
  SPEAKER_04: That's what I was just gonna say.
• 29:15
  SPEAKER_04: Like, those are the best clients to get to because they followed you and they know how you work, they know how you talk, they know your systems, like they know you before you start working together, which is so helpful because when they don't know you before you start working together, like maybe you do things in a way that's like disgusting to them, but they had no idea, you know, or like they're like, Oh, you're actually so disorganized, and I was looking for someone organized, but like you told me you were organized, but I didn't follow you, so I didn't actually really know that you were anymore.
• 29:46
  SPEAKER_04: And I oh my gosh, I like I can totally tell how people are on their social media by how they show up on social media.
• 29:54
  SPEAKER_04: Like when people are chaotic about their posting, I'm like, we could never work together because I know that you're disorganized, I know that you don't prioritize the things that are important, and I know you don't care, so like I don't want to work with you.
• 30:10
  SPEAKER_00: It's so true, it's so true, and I don't think that's the case for absolutely everyone, but it is for like social media managers.
• 30:19
  SPEAKER_00: You're a social media manager and you can't get it together to post your own shit.
• 30:24
  SPEAKER_00: Like, uh, maybe you are like prioritizing your clients or whatever, but um, I like to work with people who are driven, who are gonna get it done no matter what, and that includes their own account.
• 30:37
  SPEAKER_00: And that I think like your own account is just your best portfolio.
• 30:40
  SPEAKER_04: It is for sure, it is for sure.
• 30:43
  SPEAKER_04: And I'm so glad that I did your 30-day posting challenge or whatever early on because that helped me see that too.
• 30:52
  SPEAKER_04: Like, I was already extremely consistent, but that added challenge really helped me refine my message and like the inquiries and like my business growth since then was astronomical because I had all that data, I had like you know, I was like, I learned, I learned so much about what my audience cares about, and I honestly got to the point of like where content isn't doesn't have to be so strategic for me because it's just inherently strategic.
• 31:21
  SPEAKER_04: Like I'm not thinking about the strategy, it just is strategic because I know what my audience wants to see or hear.
• 31:29
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I love how you brought up strategy.
• 31:31
  SPEAKER_00: Strategy is like a word that I'm like trying to use so much less in 2024 because I find people say strategy this, strategy that, strategy.
• 31:39
  SPEAKER_00: And it's like, what does that even mean?
• 31:41
  SPEAKER_00: Like, what is a strategy?
• 31:42
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's it's so intimidating for a lot of people.
• 31:46
  SPEAKER_00: And when I think of like content strategy, I think of like what your marketing messages are, and that your content has a goal to like both serve your audience and create awareness for your offers.
• 31:56
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and it's more so like about like how the post is created, almost like if you think about like an essay in high school, they were like you have to have a conclusion paragraph, and then you have to have three paragraphs in the middle, and you have to cite your sources and blah blah blah.
• 32:10
  SPEAKER_00: That is what I would call a strategy when it comes to creating your content.
• 32:14
  SPEAKER_00: It's almost like a format that is designed to support and convert your audience.
• 32:20
  SPEAKER_00: So that's how I would look at it for most of the most of the times, rather than oh, I need to post this this day and this, this, that, that day, and that day.
• 32:28
  SPEAKER_00: And I even have a question.
• 32:30
  SPEAKER_04: It's yeah, that's like a tactic.
• 32:32
  SPEAKER_04: If you're like, I need to post this on this day and that on that day, it's like I don't know, then it doesn't feel strategic.
• 32:39
  SPEAKER_04: It just feels like a yeah.
• 32:41
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, if someone's like, yeah, someone's like, I post carousels on Monday and I go live on Tuesday, and I'm like, that's not a strategy.
• 32:48
  SPEAKER_00: Like your strategy is about the message, it's about like what you say, not necessarily how you say it.
• 32:55
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, and it's about pulling people from the top of your funnel to the bottom.
• 32:58
  SPEAKER_04: Like it's just a strategy, is just bridging the gap from like reaching someone to converting them through your exactly, exactly.
• 33:08
  SPEAKER_00: Like it's like like that like attention funnel almost.
• 33:11
  SPEAKER_00: Like they see your content from the hook.
• 33:13
  SPEAKER_00: Now you have to convert them to get to the last page of the carousel, or you have to convert them just to get to the end of the reel, and then you have to convert them to the caption.
• 33:21
  SPEAKER_00: Now you have to click on the colour.
• 33:22
  SPEAKER_04: Those like mini subversions.
• 33:25
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, yeah.
• 33:26
  SPEAKER_04: I love talking about that with my clients too, because it's like a conversion could be literally someone clicking the link.
• 33:32
  SPEAKER_04: If you say click this link and then click the link, that's a conversion.
• 33:36
  SPEAKER_04: You're CPA converted.
• 33:38
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, exactly.
• 33:39
  SPEAKER_04: I think people don't realize like those mini conversions, like you're saying, just from the carousel to the caption or from one side of the carousel to the next side, like all of those little things are conversions.
• 33:50
  SPEAKER_04: And when you think of it that way, it's a lot easier to like draw people through your content.
• 33:57
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 33:58
  SPEAKER_00: Especially when you like look at like I think I like to encourage people to look at it from that perspective.
• 34:03
  SPEAKER_00: Like, if someone saw the first page of this carousel, like why would they want to go to the next page?
• 34:07
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, they're on this page, why would they want to go to the next page again?
• 34:10
  SPEAKER_00: Why would they because it's they don't care, they don't care unless they know you really well and you have that community, you can get a little more lazy with it.
• 34:20
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but if you're trying to build a community and reach new people who aren't familiar with you, you really have to realize that no one like cares unless you give them a reason to.
• 34:29
  SPEAKER_04: Reason to.
• 34:30
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, that is huge.
• 34:32
  SPEAKER_04: And that actually kind of guides us into your membership thing we were gonna talk about.
• 34:37
  SPEAKER_04: That memberships are kind of growing, I feel like, on social media.
• 34:40
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, they were there, but like people were doing close friends groups or whatever, this and that.
• 34:46
  SPEAKER_04: But what have you seen as far as memberships?
• 34:49
  SPEAKER_00: What I'm loving about memberships right now is that they are um A more affordable because I think some of the pricing in the industry is just kind of insane personally.
• 35:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 35:01
  SPEAKER_00: I'm always the attitude of like, if I like I wouldn't have paid like billions of dollars when I was like brand new, especially on memberships and whatnot, like yeah, I think like it's just more of an affordable price, which I think people really need, and it's less overwhelming as well.
• 35:18
  SPEAKER_00: I think a lot of courses, so many people buy courses and they like don't even finish it or they don't start it or they don't implement it, and it's like, oh my gosh, where do I start?
• 35:28
  SPEAKER_00: So what I'm loving about memberships right now is that you can just like drip the content out.
• 35:32
  SPEAKER_00: So it's like take this 10-minute training, go do, go implement, go get results, come back for the next one next week.
• 35:40
  SPEAKER_00: And then it can just like actually give them space to digest it, implement it, and like practice it rather than here is a six-hour course, a 30-hour course.
• 35:52
  SPEAKER_00: I can't believe it when people use like the time of a course as a selling point.
• 35:57
  SPEAKER_00: Like if I hear six hours, I'm out.
• 35:58
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, no.
• 35:59
  SPEAKER_04: Also, I'm listening to that on two-time speed for sure.
• 36:02
  SPEAKER_00: For sure.
• 36:04
  SPEAKER_00: For sure.
• 36:05
  SPEAKER_00: Like having a long course is not a selling feature.
• 36:08
  SPEAKER_00: It's like it's a detractant.
• 36:09
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's a detractor.
• 36:11
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, that's what I'm loving about memberships is that like people can like jump in and you know, learn their stuff, slowly implement it, and have the community aspect as well.
• 36:21
  SPEAKER_00: I've always loved having community aspects, even in my courses before I would like always have them.
• 36:26
  SPEAKER_00: And um, and yeah, I just love that how people are having the memberships and it they and it's also like an opportunity to continue learning rather than feeling like okay, it's one and done.
• 36:37
  SPEAKER_00: I finished this course, it was a thousand dollars, and then a few months later you feel disconnected from it.
• 36:44
  SPEAKER_00: You feel disconnected from learning, you're not regularly up-leveling or whatever it is, and now you feel the need to buy another thousand dollar course.
• 36:52
  SPEAKER_00: Same thing again next quarter, and people are just constantly like like desiring to learn, which I love, but you don't need to spend a thousand dollars every month on a new course.
• 37:03
  SPEAKER_00: That's gonna be overwhelming when you could just take little bites here, like regularly long term.
• 37:10
  SPEAKER_04: And with courses, I feel like they can get outdated unless the course creator is like on their shit.
• 37:18
  SPEAKER_04: I won't name the person because last time I did, I almost got canceled.
• 37:23
  SPEAKER_04: But this person has a course, then I'm just like, you can't teach that.
• 37:28
  SPEAKER_04: You can't teach that because you don't know, because you are at a different place than literally everyone who is buying that course from you, which is kind of a bummer.
• 37:40
  SPEAKER_04: Like, I get that you maybe still want to sell that because you are successful, but the things you did to get to be where you are are not the things that are working now.
• 37:49
  SPEAKER_04: And so, with a course, if it's not being regularly updated, it's not going to apply, especially with social media, because that is changing so much.
• 38:01
  SPEAKER_00: Constantly.
• 38:04
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, you just throw a course out there and I don't know, you could take someone could take it and learn a whole bunch, but then like in three or six months, that maybe won't apply.
• 38:14
  SPEAKER_04: But with a membership, you get to continue learning and updating with the platform or with your strategy or with what's working and what's not at the current times.
• 38:24
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, exactly.
• 38:25
  SPEAKER_00: And I think too, that's why when like it comes to content, I try to focus on the message rather than social media.
• 38:32
  SPEAKER_00: I don't talk about like social media so much or like growth tactics, it's more so about the marketing messages, which do last longer, but you're so right when there's like social media courses.
• 38:43
  SPEAKER_00: When it's like how I grew on social media in 2012, it's like you posted pictures from your vacation, like that's all it took back in the day.
• 38:52
  SPEAKER_04: Literally all it took.
• 38:54
  SPEAKER_04: Sometimes I'm like, no, why was I late to the game?
• 38:58
  SPEAKER_04: Because I also feel like there was like a boom in like 2020, and I was like, I missed that.
• 39:02
  SPEAKER_04: But then again, at the end of the day, like you can't blame the platform, you can't blame the algorithm, and it is about the message, which is honestly why I loved your content, is because it was no bullshit.
• 39:15
  SPEAKER_04: It was not like here's what's working right now.
• 39:17
  SPEAKER_04: It's like this is literally what works always because it's tried and true, and it's about the message.
• 39:22
  SPEAKER_04: First, I want to say thank you so much for being here and listening to my podcast.
• 39:27
  SPEAKER_04: It means the world to me, and I just appreciate this community more than you could ever know.
• 39:33
  SPEAKER_04: If you love this episode or a previous episode that you've listened to, go ahead and head to the Leave a Review link in the show notes and leave us a review.
• 39:43
  SPEAKER_04: We would really appreciate it.
• 39:44
  SPEAKER_04: And we're so glad that you're here.
• 39:46
  SPEAKER_04: Thank you.
• 39:47
  SPEAKER_04: And the format may change and the style may change.
• 39:50
  SPEAKER_04: That's okay, but at the end of the day, it's like the fundamental core message that you have.
• 39:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, exactly.
• 39:57
  SPEAKER_00: And then it can just be like translated to so many things, like so much of what I teach can be easily translated into email, into even podcasting.
• 40:05
  SPEAKER_00: Someone who took a uh the content class, she's a podcast manager, and she said it helped her so much with her clients for like being able to format valuable content because the messaging can just be implemented in so many, so many different areas.
• 40:20
  SPEAKER_00: Because like content is not an Instagram post, which I think so many people get mixed up on.
• 40:25
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I feel like the word content is almost like another word, like strategy.
• 40:29
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, what is that?
• 40:31
  SPEAKER_00: Even but like content is the contents of whatever you're putting out there.
• 40:35
  SPEAKER_00: You can plot like translate it into YouTube, email, like all the things.
• 40:40
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's the message.
• 40:43
  SPEAKER_04: It is, and I've even like the things that you've taught me about hooks and stuff like that.
• 40:48
  SPEAKER_04: I've definitely used for my clients, but also like on my YouTube, or when I'm like naming my podcast episodes, I'm like, why would someone listen to this?
• 40:56
  SPEAKER_04: You know, thinking of that same thing, and it's just because it's all about the message.
• 41:01
  SPEAKER_04: Um, so how did you you have your first class membership?
• 41:05
  SPEAKER_04: I'm in it, it's so awesome.
• 41:06
  SPEAKER_04: If you're listening to this, you should absolutely be in it, it's worth every penny.
• 41:10
  SPEAKER_04: Um, but how did you create that and how's it going?
• 41:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, totally.
• 41:15
  SPEAKER_00: I'll also give you like um a discount code.
• 41:19
  SPEAKER_00: Jaden has a discount code below.
• 41:21
  SPEAKER_00: You should use it.
• 41:23
  SPEAKER_00: It'll help you and it'll help Jaden.
• 41:25
  SPEAKER_00: So we love that.
• 41:26
  SPEAKER_00: Oh yeah, so how I started it basically.
• 41:29
  SPEAKER_00: Um I like had a membership, not a membership, but like I was telling you, the community for my original content course.
• 41:36
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I was running that a lot.
• 41:37
  SPEAKER_00: So I have like done a lot of like community work already.
• 41:41
  SPEAKER_00: I've been running one a lot.
• 41:42
  SPEAKER_00: I even like heard from someone recently, like, oh, I want to start a community.
• 41:45
  SPEAKER_00: This looks like so much fun.
• 41:46
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, okay, like like I've been doing this for uh over a year now.
• 41:53
  SPEAKER_00: Um so just keep that in mind um that I've been doing it for a year for like for free.
• 41:57
  SPEAKER_00: So definitely don't feel like you can just like jump ahead and it's gonna be as effortless.
• 42:03
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but when I first launched it, um I launched it um along with like a podcast.
• 42:09
  SPEAKER_00: So I was doing a podcast leading up to it, just mainly to like promote the promote the offer, but not really promote the offer, but like create value in the direction so that people could sort of like see the vibe, get the vibe.
• 42:20
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and yeah, I launched it in October, I think.
• 42:25
  SPEAKER_00: I think we have about like a hundred and so members right now.
• 42:29
  SPEAKER_00: Oh my gosh, that's crazy.
• 42:31
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's so fun.
• 42:32
  SPEAKER_00: It's so fun.
• 42:33
  SPEAKER_00: It's definitely over a hundred at this point.
• 42:35
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so yeah, so that's super fun.
• 42:37
  SPEAKER_00: We love that.
• 42:38
  SPEAKER_00: And um yeah, it's been really exciting to like see it change as well.
• 42:43
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like big on changing things and updating things, and I don't think I've ever offered anything for more than three months because it's always like constantly changing, and even the membership, yeah.
• 42:54
  SPEAKER_00: We added more stuff into it in December, and we just currently uh basically redid the whole the whole format of it to offer it like so much more value directly related to content creation.
• 43:05
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, always like changing stuff and up-leveling stuff.
• 43:09
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I can't imagine offering the same thing for more than like six months, like things need to like change or have a live aspect to them, or else they just get like boring and stagnant.
• 43:22
  SPEAKER_04: It's not a vibe, yeah.
• 43:25
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly, exactly.
• 43:26
  SPEAKER_00: Like, there needs to be like something, something going on there, like it's not like a one and done kind of thing, you know.
• 43:33
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, I love that.
• 43:35
  SPEAKER_04: And you host it on Thrivecart?
• 43:39
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, we recently moved to Thrivecart, which is fun, and then the community is in WhatsApp.
• 43:44
  SPEAKER_00: Um, because I think that's fun.
• 43:45
  SPEAKER_00: Like everyone, everyone has it.
• 43:47
  SPEAKER_00: All of the community platforms suck, like all of them, none of them are good.
• 43:51
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, I am a community manager for a client of mine on Kajabi.
• 43:58
  SPEAKER_04: Okay, and it's not Too crazy, but I what I really love about WhatsApp is that it's just like so much more friendly.
• 44:05
  SPEAKER_04: Like, I literally feel like I'm texting my friends, like it's not, it doesn't feel like I'm in a course platform because I'm not, I'm in WhatsApp.
• 44:13
  SPEAKER_04: So I love that vibe, and it doesn't, I think that's like such a good point that it doesn't have to be overly complicated.
• 44:19
  SPEAKER_04: Like you have the resources at your hands to do it now if you want to.
• 44:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, totally.
• 44:24
  SPEAKER_00: Like, just because like WhatsApp is free doesn't mean it's like a less good platform.
• 44:28
  SPEAKER_00: It's actually one of the best because it's owned by like one of the biggest companies in the world, so like it's even better than like uh what the like podia.
• 44:37
  SPEAKER_00: I was on Podia before, and it was just very much like post on a Facebook wall type vibe, and no one wants to do that.
• 44:44
  SPEAKER_00: Like, people just want to like text their friends.
• 44:46
  SPEAKER_00: We don't want to create posts and make it feel like we have to create more content, like, yeah.
• 44:52
  SPEAKER_04: That's just like so tangent, but everyone overcomplicates everything, they overcomplicate their content, they overcomplicate how hard it or easy it is to have a community, but like you have all the resources you need, and it's not that hard, like it's not that complicated, and it doesn't have to cost that much, like you don't need all of all of the things like running a business online can cost you less than a thousand dollars a month.
• 45:22
  SPEAKER_00: Easy, like that's even kind of steep, yeah.
• 45:25
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, and I feel like yeah, people just overcomplicate things, and I have been doing a lot of like audits recently of people's Instagram accounts, and that's always my number one piece of feedback because I'm like, you need to way dial this back, like nobody's understanding what you're saying because you're being way too complicated about it.
• 45:45
  SPEAKER_04: Just like, how can you make it so simple?
• 45:48
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, people just use the most complicated words and they think it makes them look smart, but using complicated words makes you look like you're trying to look smart.
• 45:58
  SPEAKER_00: Like, just say it's so simple.
• 46:00
  SPEAKER_04: And like honestly, if there's too many big words, like I'm not gonna read it because oh, like I just feel like you have to understand that like your audience is busy, like your target audience, really, no matter what industry you're in, is so busy, like you have to make it easy for them to understand what you're trying to say.
• 46:18
  SPEAKER_04: Like, don't put more work on them, make it so easy for them, right?
• 46:24
  SPEAKER_00: Like, people are on social media when they're like standing in line at the grocery store, or they're like watching TV, or they're just like in the elevator or waiting for this, like they're not sitting down and like reading every word, like it's a glance, like someone's gonna interrupt them, and it's like they're not gonna care because they're not that zoomed into your content.
• 46:45
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, so just making it so simple.
• 46:47
  SPEAKER_04: I love that so much.
• 46:49
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so simple.
• 46:51
  SPEAKER_04: Simplify everything, it makes your life better.
• 46:54
  unknown: Absolutely.
• 46:54
  SPEAKER_04: But it's hard.
• 46:55
  SPEAKER_04: I feel like it's hard for perfectionists and overthinkers and people with anxiety, which is probably the whole world.
• 47:01
  SPEAKER_04: But that's what you get a community though.
• 47:05
  SPEAKER_00: Like when you have a community and connections with people people, they hold you to such a lower standard when it comes to like not like the like obviously like the content and what you deliver needs to be good, but like spelling mistakes, or oh, this link was wrong, or their the website had this issue, and they like know you're a person and they know that you're like doing it on your own, or you have one other person here or there, like they're not gonna care that much.
• 47:31
  SPEAKER_00: Whereas if you're doing ads and someone has no idea who you are and they assume that like you're a full-blown company, then they're gonna be like, oh, why does your website suck so much?
• 47:40
  SPEAKER_00: So that's another thing about like building a strong community rather than running ads, is that like what you deliver has to be great, but how you deliver it can be a little more casual.
• 47:51
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, it's like not that big of a deal.
• 47:54
  SPEAKER_04: I freaking love it when I'm seeing a type though.
• 47:56
  SPEAKER_04: I'm like, cool, that's so awesome because I do the same thing.
• 48:03
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 48:04
  SPEAKER_04: So funny, my boy my boyfriend would be like, uh, like, no problem, but like you spelled this wrong.
• 48:08
  SPEAKER_04: And I'm like, honestly, I love that for me.
• 48:13
  SPEAKER_00: I love it.
• 48:14
  SPEAKER_00: So true.
• 48:15
  SPEAKER_00: One time my mom was following me on Instagram, she was like, Oh, you have a typo, and I'm like, block.
• 48:24
  SPEAKER_02: Mom, no, like, get out of here.
• 48:27
  SPEAKER_02: That is so funny.
• 48:29
  SPEAKER_00: Literally, I was like, I can't have this energy in my life.
• 48:32
  SPEAKER_03: No, no, thank you.
• 48:34
  SPEAKER_03: Oh my god, I love that.
• 48:36
  SPEAKER_04: Okay, well, now the big money question.
• 48:40
  SPEAKER_04: If you could give the younger version of you a piece of advice, one piece of advice, what would it be?
• 48:46
  SPEAKER_00: One piece of advice.
• 48:49
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I would just say, like, you're gonna live till you're a hundred.
• 48:52
  SPEAKER_00: Like, why does it have to happen now?
• 48:55
  SPEAKER_00: Like you got 80 years, you have 80 years ahead of you.
• 49:00
  SPEAKER_00: Why does it have to happen now?
• 49:03
  SPEAKER_00: Like, so many people need it to happen now.
• 49:06
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, why?
• 49:08
  SPEAKER_00: Like, no, yeah, that's so that's so me.
• 49:12
  SPEAKER_04: Like, I'm that's so me, you called me out.
• 49:15
  SPEAKER_04: But it's true, like you do just have so much time for it to work out, so much time.
• 49:21
  SPEAKER_00: Like, if you think about your launches too, like when people have a failed launch, like I had a shitty launch one time, I launched a group program, and one person joined, and I had to run the group program with one person, which was like great for her.
• 49:35
  SPEAKER_00: She got a lot of value, but like, you know, not what I was going for.
• 49:40
  SPEAKER_00: But when you think about it, like how many launches you're gonna have in your business over your business's entire life?
• 49:46
  SPEAKER_00: Like, what is that?
• 49:47
  SPEAKER_00: Like a hundred launches, maybe two hundred even so many.
• 49:51
  SPEAKER_00: And imagine if they all make between, imagine if like 80 of them make between uh like a hundred thousand and ten, like ten thousand to a hundred thousand dollars.
• 50:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, eighty of those launches.
• 50:05
  SPEAKER_00: That's like so much money, and ten of your first your first 10 launches fail, who gives a shit?
• 50:12
  SPEAKER_00: You're gonna be a millionaire.
• 50:13
  SPEAKER_00: Like, who cares if your first few launches fail?
• 50:16
  SPEAKER_00: Because like you're gonna run so many over so many years.
• 50:21
  SPEAKER_00: Like, if you need a quick win now and today, I'm not so sure you'll be having them in the future.
• 50:28
  SPEAKER_00: Like, you need to look in that future, futuristic vision and know that like you have to start somewhere, and the fact that you've been in business for two years is not special, like that's such a short amount of time.
• 50:42
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I've been in business, I've been in business for two and a half years, so that's nothing.
• 50:47
  SPEAKER_00: Um like if you want to be in business for a long time, and even if you like think about like what am I gonna do when I'm 50?
• 50:55
  SPEAKER_00: Like, oh my gosh, is Instagram gonna be around in 25 years?
• 50:59
  SPEAKER_00: Like, you're gonna like figure it out and like also, like, yeah, that's oh my god, that is such a huge thing.
• 51:06
  SPEAKER_04: Like, I kept seeing all these posts that were like Instagram is dead or whatever, and I do have a post up my sleeve about this because who cares?
• 51:17
  SPEAKER_04: Who cares?
• 51:18
  SPEAKER_04: Your entire livelihood could be on Instagram, and Instagram could die tomorrow, and you would figure it out.
• 51:24
  SPEAKER_04: You would just you would figure it out, you'd get another job, you'd move to TikTok, you'd use your email list, you'd freaking rely on your partner or your family or something like you would figure it out, and the chances of you doing what you're doing right now forever, so low.
• 51:43
  SPEAKER_04: So low.
• 51:44
  SPEAKER_04: Because honestly, you're probably gonna age out of being like an Instagram guru.
• 51:49
  SPEAKER_04: Because when you're 50, people are gonna be like, actually, we want to learn from the 25-year-olds that are doing it now.
• 51:55
  SPEAKER_04: So you're gonna be doing something totally different, and that's okay.
• 52:00
  SPEAKER_04: So you really don't need to worry about Instagram being dead.
• 52:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, people are so worried about stuff, and even when people worry about Instagram being dead, I'm like, you think that's a problem for you?
• 52:11
  SPEAKER_00: That's a problem for Mark.
• 52:13
  SPEAKER_00: Can you imagine?
• 52:15
  SPEAKER_00: Mark money! Are you okay?
• 52:19
  SPEAKER_00: Like Adam and Mark, like they are not gonna let Instagram die.
• 52:24
  SPEAKER_00: Can you imagine?
• 52:25
  SPEAKER_00: Like how much they like you have nothing to lose.
• 52:27
  SPEAKER_00: They have everything to lose.
• 52:29
  SPEAKER_04: Everything to lose.
• 52:31
  SPEAKER_04: Everything.
• 52:32
  SPEAKER_04: And like how many employees they have?
• 52:34
  SPEAKER_04: Two are making money still on Facebook, like just in Facebook groups and just with Facebook pages.
• 52:40
  SPEAKER_04: Like, people are still making money over there and it's dead.
• 52:45
  SPEAKER_00: Like, nah.
• 52:47
  SPEAKER_04: I just it's so not something to worry about.
• 52:51
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 52:53
  SPEAKER_00: Like, honestly, this is such like a huge company.
• 52:56
  SPEAKER_00: Like, people complain about meta all the time and Instagram all the time, and like A, like, be grateful, it's free, and like B, they're constantly like updating the platform and improving it because they don't want it to die.
• 53:08
  SPEAKER_00: Like, at the same time, you're like, Oh, Instagram's gonna die, but like, don't change it.
• 53:12
  SPEAKER_00: It's like that's why they're changing it.
• 53:14
  SPEAKER_00: Like, exactly.
• 53:15
  SPEAKER_00: They want it to make it more longevity.
• 53:17
  SPEAKER_04: People hate the algorithm with a fiery passion, and I get that sometimes you're like, okay, that honestly was a good piece of content.
• 53:24
  SPEAKER_04: I really wish it would have done better.
• 53:26
  SPEAKER_04: I get that feeling, or whatever, I've been there, but like the algorithm is actually built to get your content seen.
• 53:34
  SPEAKER_04: Like, they want people to stay on the app, they want people to binge your content, they want people to binge all the content, they don't want people to leave Instagram because when they leave Instagram, they lose money.
• 53:46
  SPEAKER_04: So if you can just understand that that algorithm is actually it's kind of there to help you, then you don't have to hate it.
• 53:56
  SPEAKER_04: And I honestly think hating it just makes your content suck.
• 53:59
  SPEAKER_04: Like, it's just gonna never, it's never gonna work if you hate it.
• 54:03
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 54:03
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, people are just so annoyed at it.
• 54:05
  SPEAKER_00: I think the algorithm's great, honestly.
• 54:07
  SPEAKER_00: They give me such good content.
• 54:08
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, yes, more Taylor Swift videos.
• 54:11
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 54:12
  SPEAKER_00: Like, get all these content marketers out of here.
• 54:15
  SPEAKER_00: I don't care.
• 54:16
  SPEAKER_02: Send me more Taylor Swift videos.
• 54:18
  SPEAKER_02: Me trying to literally manipulate my algorithm so that I'm not getting other social media managers.
• 54:23
  SPEAKER_02: I'm like, no, show me some funny cat videos.
• 54:27
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 54:28
  SPEAKER_00: People are like, oh, my content has such sad reach.
• 54:31
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, what do you watch?
• 54:32
  SPEAKER_00: Funny cat videos.
• 54:34
  SPEAKER_00: Like, obviously, you don't have a lot of reach.
• 54:37
  SPEAKER_00: That's what people want.
• 54:40
  SPEAKER_04: I know.
• 54:41
  SPEAKER_04: Oh man, it's good.
• 54:42
  SPEAKER_04: Well, honestly, thank you so much for being on the podcast today.
• 54:46
  SPEAKER_04: The people were begging me in my DMs.
• 54:48
  SPEAKER_04: They're like, you have to have cats on.
• 54:50
  SPEAKER_04: So here you go.
• 54:51
  SPEAKER_04: You've all been delivered your wish.
• 54:54
  SPEAKER_04: And we will link the first class membership and the discount code for this episode.
• 55:00
  SPEAKER_04: And thank you for being here.
• 55:01
  SPEAKER_04: Yay!
• 55:02
  SPEAKER_00: This was so fun.
• 55:03
  SPEAKER_00: I'm so glad we finally got to do this.
• 55:05
  SPEAKER_04: Yes, me too.