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Bir Tawil: The Ridiculous Tale of "Earth's Worst Real Estate" · Ridiculous History

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  Speaker 1: Ridiculous History is a production of iHeartRadio. Welcome back to
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  Speaker 1: the show, fellow Ridiculous Historians. Thank you, as always so
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: much for tuning in. Let's hear it for our super producer,
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  Speaker 1: Max the monopoly Man William.
• 0:36
  Speaker 2: I was thinking of something like that, Max the Landlord. Yea,
• 0:39
  Speaker 2: the Landlord's Games.
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: The original, the original version of Monopoly was called The
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: Landlord's Game, and it's a it's a warning, a clarion call,
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: and a parable about the dangers of unfettered capitalism. Spoiler.
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: That's part of why Monopoly as it stands now is broken.
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: It's a broken game and it breaks a lot of
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  Speaker 1: families over the holidays. You're mister Noel Brown. Yes, kren Bollin,
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: I am from earlier and nol. This is going to
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: be a fun win for us because we discussed it
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  Speaker 1: a little bit in an episode of our sister show Stuff.
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  Speaker 1: They don't want you to know. Maybe the best way
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  Speaker 1: to get into it is to talk about real estate.
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  Speaker 1: It's always been kind of a hot, sometimes touchy commodity.
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  Speaker 3: It's real estate.
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  Speaker 2: They ain't making any more land, right or maybe we'll
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  Speaker 2: say a TBD on that. So yeah, with billions of
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  Speaker 2: people across this planet of ours. Real estate has always
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  Speaker 2: been that thing hot and sometimes.
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  Speaker 3: Touchy, as you said, commodity.
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  Speaker 2: However, on a local level we start to see the
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  Speaker 2: prices of housing and rent playing huge roles in a
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  Speaker 2: particular or community's success and or failure.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, and then if we scope out to a regional level,
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  Speaker 1: we will see that states and nations, pretty much since
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  Speaker 1: civilization began have always been constantly fighting over who gets
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  Speaker 1: to own certain things, often with bloody results.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, min ys am, I.
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  Speaker 1: Right, shotgun, either as in calling dibbs or using firearms.
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  Speaker 3: So to threaten people to stay off my land.
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  Speaker 1: Right, And for the most part, people aren't building new
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  Speaker 1: land technically, there are endeavors out in East Asia and
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  Speaker 1: in the Middle East to make new islands or to
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  Speaker 1: expand existing land.
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  Speaker 3: What about terraforming Mars? How are we doing on that?
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  Speaker 1: Still in the drawing board phase? Yeah, but outside of
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  Speaker 1: a few places like Antarctica, which has been dedicated to
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  Speaker 1: pure scientific research due to the ant Arctic a Treaty's And.
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  Speaker 3: Also it ain't good for much else given the inhospitable climbs.
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  Speaker 1: Right, it's great for building snowmen, but or accidentally becoming
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  Speaker 1: a snowman if you're outside too long. But outside of
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  Speaker 1: places like Antarctica or the Moon, maybe Mars, to your point,
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  Speaker 1: it seems like every other place on Earth is kind
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  Speaker 1: of owned by someone.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a real estate land whatever is what they
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  Speaker 2: might call at a premium places like New York City,
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  Speaker 2: where everything is even more.
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  Speaker 3: Scarce in terms of literal space.
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  Speaker 2: You start seeing things just getting stacked on top of
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  Speaker 2: each other, you know, up as far as allowable limits
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  Speaker 2: might dictate.
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  Speaker 3: What are those called air rights?
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, air rights up into airspace? How far can you go?
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  Speaker 1: How much? How much of the air past the top
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  Speaker 1: of your building.
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  Speaker 3: Do you own? Can you own the air? Can you
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  Speaker 3: own the wind? Can you own a I would love.
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  Speaker 1: To be able to of the wind? Some people do
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  Speaker 1: own songs, which will be a fun episode for us
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  Speaker 1: to explore in the future.
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  Speaker 3: Colors of the Wind. It could be reinterpreted as a
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  Speaker 3: song about synaesthesia.
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  Speaker 1: There it is, and I love it. I'm here for
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  Speaker 1: it as a sena state. So, as we're going to
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  Speaker 1: see in today's episode, it turns out, despite this huge
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  Speaker 1: land grabs that's been going on for all of human
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  Speaker 1: ridiculous history, there are some parts of planet Earth that
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  Speaker 1: literally nobody wants. One of our favorites is a little
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  Speaker 1: place called beer how will.
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  Speaker 2: If you might pull up a map of Africa or
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  Speaker 2: the African continent, and perchance zoom in on the border
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  Speaker 2: between Sudan and Egypt, you might notice a little something odd,
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  Speaker 2: a postage stamp sized seven nine ninety five square mile
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  Speaker 2: piece of land sandwiched betwixt those two countries. Egypt says
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  Speaker 2: it belongs to Sudan, Sudan says it belongs to Eai.
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  Speaker 3: Wait anut wouldn't usually be the other way around, right?
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  Speaker 3: What about the mine of it all? That's right?
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  Speaker 1: What about the mind of it all?
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  Speaker 2: No?
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  Speaker 3: Whatever does yours?
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  Speaker 1: I love betwixt as well. So both countries make maps
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  Speaker 1: to this day claiming the other country owns this little
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  Speaker 1: spot of lands.
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  Speaker 3: Take it, please, please take it.
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  Speaker 1: And they keep trying to just push their own versions
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  Speaker 1: of the truth and get the United Nations to accept it.
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  Speaker 1: Our friends over at the Guardian can tell you how
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  Speaker 1: to get to beerta will spelled. It's two different words,
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  Speaker 1: bi r space tawil. Spoiler, folks, it is super inconvenient
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  Speaker 1: to get over to this place.
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  Speaker 3: Let's go take some doing.
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  Speaker 2: According to The Guardian, to get there, you have two choices,
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  Speaker 2: they say. The first is to fly to the Sudanese
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  Speaker 2: capital Khartoum, charter a jeep and follow the Shindy Road
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  Speaker 2: hundreds of miles up to Abu Ahmed, which is a
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  Speaker 2: settlement that dates back to the ancient kingdom.
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  Speaker 3: Of Kush, which I love the name of that kingdom.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, reasons fun to say. But also is that it's
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  Speaker 2: a we'd thing right, Yes, it's a.
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  Speaker 1: Cannabis term today. The Guardian continues, this settlement Abuhamad, serves
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  Speaker 1: as the region's final permanent human outposts before you reach
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  Speaker 1: the vast waste of the Nubian desert. It is twice
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  Speaker 1: the size of mainland Britain. It's almost completely barren. The
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  Speaker 1: second option they mentioned is to approach from Egypt, which
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  Speaker 1: means you have to go to the southernmost city, Aswan.
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  Speaker 1: You have to somehow find your way down through the
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  Speaker 1: inhospitable expanse between Lake Nasser to the west and the
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  Speaker 1: Red Sea to the east. This is going to be
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  Speaker 1: a tougher option because the Egyptian Army considers this a
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  Speaker 1: restricted zone, so you got to get a lot of
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  Speaker 1: paperwork before you go blessed eb shot at Yes, blessed
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  Speaker 1: eb shotgun to pollen. And once you arrive, here's the thing, folks,
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  Speaker 1: if you make it to actual beerta will you are
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  Speaker 1: going to be unimpressed.
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  Speaker 2: It is deserted unless you're into barren, uninhabited places with
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  Speaker 2: no signs of human life or activity. That's because beer
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  Speaker 2: to Wheel is exactly that thing. There are no traces
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  Speaker 2: of permanent inhabitants, no roads and on need roads. It's
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  Speaker 2: not governed by any law. The land cover is sand
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  Speaker 2: and several mountains are the only features to speak of.
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  Speaker 2: It is a real life no man's land or terra
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  Speaker 2: nullius and nullius. And Ben also makes me think of
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  Speaker 2: something we talked about on stuff they don't want you
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  Speaker 2: to know about some places where a lot of these
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  Speaker 2: like phone bank scams take place, and they're these like
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  Speaker 2: sort of off the books, lawless regions in the jungle
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  Speaker 2: where these kinds of operations are able to you know,
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  Speaker 2: sort of go unnoticed by any international authority or even
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  Speaker 2: national authority.
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  Speaker 3: I mean where that was Ben, we'd.
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  Speaker 1: Be thinking specifically, Yeah, me and mar there in Southeast Asia.
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  Speaker 1: Check out the work by our colleague Denise Chan on
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  Speaker 1: the scam industry. There scam factory excellent, and a lot
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  Speaker 1: of those folks are working there against their will. Always remember,
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  Speaker 1: even if a scammer is calling you, they might be
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  Speaker 1: forced to do so. Also, I love the point about
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  Speaker 1: whether or not you will find bertel Will impressive. Fellow
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  Speaker 1: ridiculous historians. I fondly recall one of the first times
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  Speaker 1: I saw the desert ecosystem of the United States, and
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  Speaker 1: it struck me that if a god exists, this must
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  Speaker 1: be the place where that god got into abstract art.
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  Speaker 1: So if you like abstract art, you might like bertel Will,
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  Speaker 1: but you will be hard pressed to find a decent.
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  Speaker 3: Root beer flo uh yeah, or maybe even like potable water.
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  Speaker 2: You know.
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  Speaker 3: The land terranilius.
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  Speaker 2: By the way, the term we were talking about a
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  Speaker 2: moment ago is a Latin phrase meaning land belonging to
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  Speaker 2: no one, and describes a territory or territories that aren't
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  Speaker 2: claimed or recognized by any state or sovereign authority. In
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  Speaker 2: the international law community, this is a concept that's often
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  Speaker 2: been used to justify occupation of said land because no
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  Speaker 2: one called dibbs this land, being not under any formal
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  Speaker 2: government control, even when there might be a handful of
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  Speaker 2: settlers there.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, there are people who have been living there for
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  Speaker 1: untold millenniash. This goes back to the days of colonialism
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  Speaker 1: where you could just plant a flag and say shotgun.
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  Speaker 1: You know this is now France somehow. Yeah right, they.
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  Speaker 3: Called dibbs.
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  Speaker 1: Right, and border disputes going back to your earlier point,
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  Speaker 1: they're all too common in ancient and modern history. But
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  Speaker 1: usually those disputes, overwhelmingly, those disputes arise from two or
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  Speaker 1: more nations all wanting to own the same piece of property.
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  Speaker 1: This is the opposite of that. For more, it's so weird.
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  Speaker 1: For more than a century, both Egypt and Sudan have
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  Speaker 1: looked at this desolate stretch of abstract art desert and
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  Speaker 1: said no, no, no, seriously, no you take it. No, no, no, no, no,
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  Speaker 1: you guys take it.
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  Speaker 2: And I mean you might be thinking to yourself, like,
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  Speaker 2: why wouldn't even do that? It seems like, you know,
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  Speaker 2: empires have always been built on like acquiring and conquering,
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  Speaker 2: and you know, planting that flag it must have something
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  Speaker 2: to do with it not being a particularly worthwhile strategic anything.
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  Speaker 1: It has everything to do with that, And you nailed it.
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  Speaker 1: So how did we get here? The quick origin story
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  Speaker 1: to understand this truly ridiculous, mad cap situation, we got
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  Speaker 1: a traveled back to the British occupation of Egypt in
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  Speaker 1: eighteen eighty two. So ostensibly they made a short term solution.
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  Speaker 1: They wanted to protect British monetary interests, the Empire's interest
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  Speaker 1: in the country of Egypt, and they also wanted to
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  Speaker 1: control local trade. They were super pissed at the Ottoman
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  Speaker 1: Empire at this time, so they wanted to fu's with
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  Speaker 1: the Ottoman Empire, and they wanted to strengthen their control
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  Speaker 1: or influence on the Suez Canal. This seizure of land
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  Speaker 1: kickstarted what we call the Scramble of African If you
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  Speaker 1: fast forward to eighteen ninety nine, you run into a
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  Speaker 1: very fancily and confusingly named thing, the Anglo Egyptian Condominium Agreement.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, what's that about? The Egyptian condominiums as like a timeshare.
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  Speaker 2: This is what set the border between these two countries
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  Speaker 2: at the twenty second parallel during the era of peak colonialism.
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  Speaker 2: The Brits were essentially making an executive decision about this
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  Speaker 2: without particularly consulting anybody else, specifically the locals. The first
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  Speaker 2: attempt to redraw those boundaries followed a similar pattern to
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  Speaker 2: how European powers might have drawn up the rest or
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  Speaker 2: sliced up, carved up the rest of Africa, using straight
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  Speaker 2: lines with very little consideration for geographical features cultural divides,
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  Speaker 2: you know, between the different regions, or going along with that,
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  Speaker 2: ethnic differences, as we know in this part of the
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  Speaker 2: world can vary widely in a very small distance across
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  Speaker 2: very small.
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  Speaker 1: Absolutely, yeah, because cultural boundaries can often be distinct from
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  Speaker 1: geographical boundaries. And I love that point. Somebody looked at
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  Speaker 1: the map, we don't have to get into it. If
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  Speaker 1: someone looked at the map, thought of the parallels and
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  Speaker 1: just took a line and a ruler and went ship yep,
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  Speaker 1: chippy choppy, chippy choppy, tiketiboo, tally ho. They in a
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  Speaker 1: rare backstep or backpedal for the Empire. Just a few
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  Speaker 1: years later, in nineteen o two, the United Kingdom drew
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  Speaker 1: a separate, different boundary for administrative purposes. This is where
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  Speaker 1: the map starts to go wrong. Now at this time,
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  Speaker 1: still Egypt and Suddan are not really independent. They are
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  Speaker 1: vassal states or vassal regions of the British Empire. So officially,
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  Speaker 1: our friends the Brits hope that these new boundaries can
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  Speaker 1: reflect the land based on what you were saying, No,
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  Speaker 1: the use by locals in the area. Right, So if
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  Speaker 1: these folks consider themselves Egyptian, why don't we call it
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  Speaker 1: this part Egyptian territory. But unofficially, see, that was what
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  Speaker 1: they sold to the PC masses. Unofficially they had a
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  Speaker 1: race for resource extraction and control, and they kind of
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  Speaker 1: they made this deal go through by softly implying in
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  Speaker 1: back rooms that this was a temporary solution. It was
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  Speaker 1: a band aid. We're just keeping we just keeping things
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  Speaker 1: stable until the more permanent solution can be found.
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  Speaker 3: Keep calm and move on, motherfuckers. Right, chin up, and
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  Speaker 3: thanks for the beep there, Thanks for the beep, their macks.
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  Speaker 3: This was not the truth.
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  Speaker 1: They were making a long term play to carve up
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  Speaker 1: and further control the area. So the new boundary in
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  Speaker 1: nineteen oh two puts this tiny little as you said,
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  Speaker 1: postage stamp beer to will as part of Egypt. And
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  Speaker 1: the reason they do this is because at the time,
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  Speaker 1: back then, there's a semi nomadic tribe the Ababda, and
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  Speaker 1: they're from Egypt. They use this land as grazy land
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  Speaker 1: for their animals. But the situation becomes complicated because on
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  Speaker 1: the other side, if you go just a little bit
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  Speaker 1: further east to the coast of the Red Sea, there's
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  Speaker 1: another piece of land or property that switches.
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  Speaker 2: Right.
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  Speaker 1: You either own the you either own the area of
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  Speaker 1: the inhospitable desert of Beerta Will, or you control something
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  Speaker 1: called the Halib triangle.
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  Speaker 2: So is Birto Will just kind of the shape that
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  Speaker 2: got left out from all this carving, just the little
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  Speaker 2: like leftover remnant that nobody wanted because they had already
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  Speaker 2: taken their bits, and this was the part that like
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  Speaker 2: nothing quite intersected with. And now it's this inconvenient truth
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  Speaker 2: that they have to reconcile to some degree.
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  Speaker 1: It's the weakness. Yeah, it's little dingus of the thing
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  Speaker 1: because they again they just like you were saying, drew
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  Speaker 1: that straight line across the p lell and this is
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  Speaker 1: where okay, so this is where we get to a
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  Speaker 1: mutually exclusive thing. You can either own beirta Will or
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  Speaker 1: you can own the Halib Triangle. And pardon our pronunciation,
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  Speaker 1: we're not native Arabic speakers, the triangle is by far
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  Speaker 1: the better piece of real estate. We're talking park Place
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  Speaker 1: versus one of the dumb Monopoly squares at the very
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  Speaker 1: beginning of the game Jail right. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I
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  Speaker 1: like that. So here's why the triangle is so much better.
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  Speaker 1: It's on the coast of the Red Sea, so you
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  Speaker 1: have sea access, and it is much larger. It's seven
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  Speaker 1: nine hundred and fifty square miles approximately, and a lot
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  Speaker 1: of that area is not in hospitable desert. So both
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  Speaker 1: Egypt and Sudan want the triangle. The area the triangle
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  Speaker 1: initially comes under control of the British Governor of Sudan.
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  Speaker 1: Neither country is super happy about this. Egypt and Sudan
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  Speaker 1: both want the triangle, but ultimately they answered to Britain,
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  Speaker 1: so they can't really do anything about it except steam
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  Speaker 1: slowly and cooking their own juices. Problems really start when
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  Speaker 1: these countries both become independent.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, it happens in nineteen fifty six when Sudan claimed ownership.
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  Speaker 2: At which time, rather Sudan claimed ownership of the Halaib Triangle,
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  Speaker 2: but Egypt then said not so fast. The Sudan stating
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  Speaker 2: that the nineteen oh two administrative boundary was meant to
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  Speaker 2: be temporary. So the Halaib Triangle, for all intents and purposes,
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  Speaker 2: according to Egypt anyway, belonged to Egypt, and the beer
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  Speaker 2: Ta Will was Sudan's.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, and Sudan said exactly the opposite. So each country
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  Speaker 1: for more than a hundred years now, how ridiculous is this,
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  Speaker 1: each of them insists that the map that shows the
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  Speaker 1: triangle as their territory is the real map. And as
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  Speaker 1: a side effect, neither country will ever claim beer Ta
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  Speaker 1: Will because if they did so, they would agree with
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  Speaker 1: the other guy's map and they would sacrifice their claim
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  Speaker 1: to that juicy triangle. It's so surreal the country's leaders like,
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  Speaker 1: no matter who is in government, even after the split
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  Speaker 1: between Sudan and South Sudan in our lifetimes, every leader
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  Speaker 1: of both of these countries just keeps accusing the other
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  Speaker 1: guy of owning beer Ta Will.
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  Speaker 2: It's very doctor Strangelove, very you pointed out, and Joseph
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  Speaker 2: Heller makes me think of something curvan and it might
• 18:47
  Speaker 2: get wrapped up in this idea of a place that
• 18:49
  Speaker 2: frontons and purposes at least two those concerned does not exist. However,
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  Speaker 2: you know, people do pass through it. It exists, you know,
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  Speaker 2: as a geographical feature, and.
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  Speaker 1: So you do.
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  Speaker 2: Well, there aren't very many folks who have settled it.
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  Speaker 2: You will see nomadic communities passing through.
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  Speaker 1: Oh.
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  Speaker 3: Ben.
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  Speaker 2: You also pointed out that professor Alistair Bonnett, who's a
• 19:15
  Speaker 2: social geographer and author of The Unruly Places, described it
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  Speaker 2: as the only habitable place on Earth not currently claimed
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  Speaker 2: by any recognized government, which supports I think we've been.
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  Speaker 1: Saying, you try to make somebody else claim it.
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  Speaker 3: Take it man now. But so back to the nomadic communities, Ben,
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  Speaker 3: they passed through.
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  Speaker 2: You get folks maybe panning for gold and things like that,
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  Speaker 2: temporarily setting up to try to extract some resources.
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  Speaker 3: But in general it's it's still got that terrannolious thing
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  Speaker 3: going for it.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly. And this is this is where we get
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  Speaker 1: to a bit of a bookend, right, because of course,
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  Speaker 1: shout out to Tim and Eric. You look at this
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  Speaker 1: and some people think it's free real estate, right, it's
• 19:56
  Speaker 1: free real estate. We got the keys for you right here.
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  Speaker 1: So multiple people we have tried to exercise this old
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  Speaker 1: colonial idea of Terra nulius and create what we will
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  Speaker 1: call a micronation thing. Is a lot of these folks
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  Speaker 1: haven't actually visited. They've gone online and said, I this
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  Speaker 1: is me, now I own this.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, good luck once you actually get there and see
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  Speaker 2: how rough ago you're probably gonna.
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  Speaker 3: Have of it there in that absolutely brutal climate.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, And this goes back to an old hobby
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  Speaker 1: horse of ours folks from years ago, the concept of micronations.
• 20:36
  Speaker 1: Please check out our earlier episodes in multiples.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, yeah.
• 20:40
  Speaker 1: The Principality of Sealand that's a cool one. It's an
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: old fort off the coast of the United Kingdom.
• 20:48
  Speaker 3: Anyway.
• 20:48
  Speaker 1: One of the most interesting attempts to control beerta Will
• 20:54
  Speaker 1: occurs in twenty fourteen. A lot of people are trying
• 20:57
  Speaker 1: to do this, but there's one guy who doesn't just
• 21:00
  Speaker 1: talk trash on the internet. His name's Jeremiah Heaton, and
• 21:04
  Speaker 1: he travels in person to Beard tall Will. His motivation
• 21:08
  Speaker 1: is odd and pretty noble because ever since she was
• 21:12
  Speaker 1: a wee tyke, his daughter, Emily had been obsessed with
• 21:16
  Speaker 1: the idea of becoming a real princess.
• 21:25
  Speaker 2: I mean, okay, as everybody's little daughter up to an age. Right,
• 21:30
  Speaker 2: man dude seemed to he's got Amelia Badelia disorder. He's
• 21:33
  Speaker 2: taking it very literally.
• 21:35
  Speaker 1: Oh what a great reference was I recently reread an
• 21:38
  Speaker 1: Amelia Badillia book. This guy Jeremiah, he says where his
• 21:43
  Speaker 1: official reasoning is, Beard Tall Will is my chance to
• 21:47
  Speaker 1: make my daughter Emily's dream a reality. So as a
• 21:51
  Speaker 1: birthday present, daughter, O mine, I am traveling to Beard
• 21:55
  Speaker 1: to Will. I'm gonna take ownership of this disputed land,
• 21:58
  Speaker 1: this terror, nullius, no desires. I'm going to found a
• 22:02
  Speaker 1: new country. We'll call it the Kingdom of North Sudan.
• 22:06
  Speaker 1: I'm going to install myself as head of state and
• 22:09
  Speaker 1: a burst of humility, and then I will make you
• 22:13
  Speaker 1: my daughter at actual princess. Yeah, and she also gets
• 22:16
  Speaker 1: a pony, and she got yeah, all the Barbie dolls.
• 22:20
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 22:21
  Speaker 1: It's a lot, man.
• 22:22
  Speaker 3: This is this guy.
• 22:23
  Speaker 2: I don't know what he was going for quite here.
• 22:25
  Speaker 2: I mean, I'm all about the love of a father
• 22:28
  Speaker 2: for their offspring. This seems like it's taking in an
• 22:30
  Speaker 2: odd direction. He did, in fact, plant a flag and
• 22:34
  Speaker 2: started a campaign to raise two hundred and fifty thousand
• 22:37
  Speaker 2: US dollars in order to help develop this new nation.
• 22:40
  Speaker 2: Seems low for developing of a nation. Yeah, in pr terms.
• 22:45
  Speaker 3: This is an absolute brutal miss to you.
• 22:49
  Speaker 1: It was terrible.
• 22:50
  Speaker 3: It was. It was so bad.
• 22:52
  Speaker 1: It was on the level of that time during the
• 22:55
  Speaker 1: COVID nineteen lockdown where a bunch of celebrities started singing
• 23:01
  Speaker 1: that song together.
• 23:02
  Speaker 3: Remember I don't know which song it was, but it
• 23:04
  Speaker 3: was definitely cringe.
• 23:05
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it was pretty tote.
• 23:06
  Speaker 3: It a We are the World esque situation, but even
• 23:09
  Speaker 3: more tone deaf.
• 23:10
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it was an attempt. It was a swing and
• 23:12
  Speaker 1: a miss. It was a big with and so was
• 23:15
  Speaker 1: Jeremiah Heaton's attempt here. Now we haven't spoken with mister
• 23:21
  Speaker 1: Heaton ourselves, but what we can see is that instead
• 23:24
  Speaker 1: of people contributing toward this two hundred and fifty thousand
• 23:28
  Speaker 1: US dollars goal, instead folks from across the planet united
• 23:34
  Speaker 1: as haters and critics, and they said, you were not
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: being cool. This is not about your daughter, dude. You're
• 23:42
  Speaker 1: trying to bring back colonialism. You are twenty first century imperialist.
• 23:47
  Speaker 2: M and perhaps even a twenty first century schizoid man,
• 23:50
  Speaker 2: because he was absolutely dripping. This is a wild, outlandish
• 23:55
  Speaker 2: idea that went absolutely nowhere, and I.
• 23:58
  Speaker 3: Just don't get it. It's just he going for here.
• 24:00
  Speaker 2: Do you think it was really just to impress his kid,
• 24:03
  Speaker 2: as there's so many better ways of going about that.
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: I don't know. It reminds me to this will be
• 24:08
  Speaker 1: familiar to any of our friends in the audience who
• 24:11
  Speaker 1: might have a well meaning but tone deaf relative or parent,
• 24:15
  Speaker 1: because sometimes you get that, you get that present where
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: Oh I'm thinking in particular, I won't give names, but
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: I'm thinking in particular of an old friend of mine.
• 24:27
  Speaker 1: Her parents have been separated for a long time, right,
• 24:32
  Speaker 1: but the dad and the mom are still in their
• 24:34
  Speaker 1: daughter's life. And the dad is so tone deaf that
• 24:37
  Speaker 1: because his daughter all like back when she was six
• 24:41
  Speaker 1: or eight years old, said she liked leopard print as
• 24:45
  Speaker 1: a child. Every time her birthday comes up, this guy
• 24:49
  Speaker 1: just gets her something vaguely leopard themed, and she's talked
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: to him about it.
• 24:53
  Speaker 2: Oh, I was gonna say, we didn't even have the
• 24:55
  Speaker 2: heart to tell him, but yeah, I got you, super
• 24:59
  Speaker 2: super bizarre.
• 25:00
  Speaker 3: I get it.
• 25:00
  Speaker 2: This is like the most to the nth degree version
• 25:03
  Speaker 2: of that kind of well meaning this and I would argue,
• 25:06
  Speaker 2: per the Internet, this is maybe not even well meaning,
• 25:09
  Speaker 2: Like maybe there's something else going on.
• 25:10
  Speaker 1: Here right now. The official reason versus unofficial on.
• 25:14
  Speaker 2: The lore, the the myth making of it all. The
• 25:17
  Speaker 2: only structured, an ongoing claim to this region or this
• 25:21
  Speaker 2: strip of Noman's land comes from the Prince get An
• 25:25
  Speaker 2: actual facts, Prince orn Voclbam Giovanni Caparaso Gottlieb.
• 25:31
  Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, of beer to Will if you ask him. Yeah.
• 25:36
  Speaker 1: So unlike the more symbolic or the more Internet driven
• 25:41
  Speaker 1: claims of the past, this guy is really putting the
• 25:44
  Speaker 1: work in. He must have the capital to burn. He
• 25:47
  Speaker 1: has created this initiative that includes a theoretical framework of governance.
• 25:56
  Speaker 1: It has a resident population, and it has people who
• 25:59
  Speaker 1: claim that they are diplomats. They even put their money
• 26:04
  Speaker 1: where their mouth is, and they're calling themselves the Principality
• 26:08
  Speaker 1: of birds Will. And they submitted a request earlier this year,
• 26:12
  Speaker 1: in January of twenty twenty five, to be admitted to
• 26:15
  Speaker 1: the United Nations as an observer state. They really want
• 26:19
  Speaker 1: that legitimacy.
• 26:20
  Speaker 3: They just want to audit basically, you know, just sit
• 26:23
  Speaker 3: in the back of the class and just check it out. Yeah,
• 26:26
  Speaker 3: they just want to be in the room, you know.
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: And we see that with the actually we see that
• 26:30
  Speaker 1: with a lot of emergent would be countries did not
• 26:35
  Speaker 1: micro nations. Yeah, and that's how you like get your
• 26:37
  Speaker 1: foot in the door.
• 26:38
  Speaker 3: Just hang out, yeah network.
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 26:41
  Speaker 3: Yeah, so later you.
• 26:42
  Speaker 1: Can say, oh, I am an actual state because you
• 26:45
  Speaker 1: guys let me hang out in the back. Remember, I
• 26:47
  Speaker 1: didn't vote, I didn't make trouble, I.
• 26:49
  Speaker 3: Didn't get a grade. But you know, I learned the gist.
• 26:52
  Speaker 3: I learned the gist.
• 26:54
  Speaker 1: So make it official. This is the most formal and
• 26:58
  Speaker 1: ambitious action ever taken regarding this territory since the late
• 27:04
  Speaker 1: eighteen hundreds early nineteen hundreds.
• 27:06
  Speaker 3: Well, and it does have a citizenry. It has a population.
• 27:11
  Speaker 2: According to the twenty twenty fourth census, the principality counts
• 27:14
  Speaker 2: three thousand and thirty citizens, many of whom belong to
• 27:18
  Speaker 2: the abbadbah Abadhbah and Bashiri people, nomadic ethnic groups native
• 27:23
  Speaker 2: to the region. Gottlieb is recognized by local leaders as
• 27:27
  Speaker 2: the head of state, and the principality maintains a loose
• 27:31
  Speaker 2: administrative structure that's centered around it's capital, Marianne Station One.
• 27:37
  Speaker 3: That's a sexy name for a capital.
• 27:38
  Speaker 1: It's a weird name, right, Where's marian Station two, exactly right.
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: It's like how we have how we have certain restaurants
• 27:48
  Speaker 1: here in Atlanta Cafe Yeah, the three, or Chin Chin
• 27:54
  Speaker 1: two we used to hang out at all the time
• 27:56
  Speaker 1: after work or Foe Di Loi number two. It's very strange.
• 28:02
  Speaker 1: So the territory does make money, or at least they
• 28:06
  Speaker 1: publish some loose financials, and their primary source of revenue
• 28:11
  Speaker 1: is tourism, especially from people who say, I want to
• 28:15
  Speaker 1: visit a place that technically isn't anywhere.
• 28:18
  Speaker 2: It's like that place where all the states intersect, you know,
• 28:21
  Speaker 2: that little triangle people like to go to on Goofy
• 28:24
  Speaker 2: road trips.
• 28:25
  Speaker 3: Not Goofy. It's absolutely a viable place to visit, but
• 28:28
  Speaker 3: it does seem like one of those you know, like
• 28:30
  Speaker 3: families in the Winnebago.
• 28:32
  Speaker 2: Going across the country and checking out the place where
• 28:35
  Speaker 2: all the states meet and then going to see Rock
• 28:37
  Speaker 2: City a little bit.
• 28:38
  Speaker 1: Kitchie, right, we're talking about lookout mountains specific and if
• 28:42
  Speaker 1: the weather is nice, you can see technically a lot
• 28:44
  Speaker 1: of states, but bring quarters for the binoculars. That's how
• 28:50
  Speaker 1: they get.
• 28:50
  Speaker 3: Nothing's for free.
• 28:51
  Speaker 1: Yeah, not in the US. Now, the principality of Beard
• 28:55
  Speaker 1: to Will this would be a nation. This pretend to
• 29:00
  Speaker 1: the international order. It says, Look, we're neutral, we're multi ethnic,
• 29:05
  Speaker 1: we're multi religious, we are above all peaceful. We want
• 29:09
  Speaker 1: to coexist. They have a coexistence bumper sticker on all
• 29:13
  Speaker 1: their cards. One of those facts was made of Well,
• 29:16
  Speaker 1: that'll be up to you.
• 29:17
  Speaker 3: Ridiculous story. It's the guests which one?
• 29:18
  Speaker 2: And if you ask any official source, they will tell
• 29:21
  Speaker 2: you the principality does not technically.
• 29:23
  Speaker 3: Or legally in fact exist.
• 29:26
  Speaker 1: Yeah, here we are yeap. History is weird, folks, and
• 29:29
  Speaker 1: real estate drug. Yeah, well, history is weird, belief is
• 29:33
  Speaker 1: a hell of a drug, and real estate is downright ridiculous.
• 29:38
  Speaker 1: We wanted to ask you a favor here as we're
• 29:40
  Speaker 1: getting toward the end of this episode and indeed the
• 29:43
  Speaker 1: end of the calendar year. If you feel so moved folks,
• 29:47
  Speaker 1: if you are thinking, oh gosh, I'd love to give
• 29:50
  Speaker 1: the guys a little present for the holiday season, why
• 29:53
  Speaker 1: not just pop over to your podcast platform of choice,
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: give us five stars if if you can, and give
• 30:02
  Speaker 1: us a quick quirky shout out to one of your
• 30:05
  Speaker 1: favorite episodes. There we go. I think that's fair to
• 30:08
  Speaker 1: ask that.
• 30:09
  Speaker 3: Absolutely, it's the least you can do.
• 30:14
  Speaker 1: Well. We sure appreciate your time, folks. We know things
• 30:18
  Speaker 1: are always crazy now, and you know there's that old
• 30:22
  Speaker 1: idiom about how or that old figures speech about how
• 30:25
  Speaker 1: people often don't want to live in times where history
• 30:29
  Speaker 1: is being made. But we are here with you and
• 30:31
  Speaker 1: we can't thank you enough for tuning in. Also, we'd
• 30:34
  Speaker 1: like to thank our super producer mister Max Williams and
• 30:37
  Speaker 1: our mysterious in house composer Alex the Nomad Williams.
• 30:41
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, very much. A nomadic cat that Alex Williams.
• 30:45
  Speaker 2: I hope to see him around these parts very soon.
• 30:48
  Speaker 2: Huge thanks to Christo Frasciotis and he'ves, Jeff Coates here
• 30:51
  Speaker 2: and Spira, Jonathan Strickland, the quizz A, j Bahamas, Jacob's
• 30:54
  Speaker 2: up Uzzler.
• 30:55
  Speaker 1: As well as doctor Rachel Big Spinach Lance and the
• 30:58
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• 31:02
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• 31:06
  Speaker 1: And uh, I don't know what do you think? Road
• 31:09
  Speaker 1: trip beiritual will road rules.
• 31:11
  Speaker 3: Baby, See you next time, folks.
• 31:20
  Speaker 2: For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,
• 31:24
  Speaker 2: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows,