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The Ritual 2017 · You Killed Clyde - A Horror Podcast

• 0:11
  SPEAKER_02: Welcome to You Killed Clyde, everybody.
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_02: I'm your host Frank, and today we're gonna be discussing what happens when you go into the woods with your pals and come out a warrior.
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_02: Folks, today we're talking about the 2017 British folk horror film The Ritual.
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_02: I am not alone here, however.
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_02: With me today is my dearest co-host, and I'm not sure many of you are aware, my brother, Andrew.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_02: Andrew, how are you?
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_00: I'm good.
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_00: I'm just uh on this nice Sunday morning having a coffee, uh waking up and looking forward to discussing this film.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_00: Awesome, awesome.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_02: When I initially put this film on, I spent 15 minutes watching the wrong movie, and I had to call you because I was like, it was about a priest.
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_02: It was like that Dan Stevens film.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_02: And I even wrote, and I wrote a whole bunch of things like Andrew loves Dan Stevens.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I didn't realize Dan Stevens was in the movie.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_02: I just like, but then it's like it was all about this exorcism.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm like, and then I remember I called you and I go, at what point do they enter the woods?
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_02: And you're like, you're watching like the completely wrong movie, and I'm like, oh you know what?
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_00: In your defense, though, um, we said, Hey, let's do the ritual.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_00: We never put the year beside it when we said that in our chat, so I kid I mean we I think we both knew what I meant, but I think we did.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_00: Like I knew it was I do love Dan Stevens, and if you if you're as big a fan of him as I am, uh I've been watching Devil in Silver recently.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_00: Um I'm not all I'm not all caught up yet, but it's fantastic, and he's he's just awesome in it.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_02: I started watching that, but you know, Dan Stevens does this weird thing where sometimes he talks in an accent that is really bizarre.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_00: He does his American accent's very like like uh I'm trapped in a mental asylum.
• 2:17
  SPEAKER_00: Like it just very like, sir, and my news down.
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_00: Like he has a very gravelly his American, I guess what I'm trying to get at with that shitty impression is he's he does have a kind of gravelly tone sometimes with his American voice, and like he's so well spoken normally, so it's a shame that I kind of wish more American TV would use his normal voice instead of making him kind of since 2026, you know.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, anyway, yeah, I started watching that and I did like it.
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_02: The one thing I do like about him, and obviously we can't make this whole episode about him, but I do like that he is very expressive and he's a great actor, and Legion is one of my favorite TV shows in the entire world.
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_02: For me, that is how Marvel should have done the X-Men.
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_02: Like, it was just so well done and so introspective and really visually like wrought.
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_02: It was really, really beautiful.
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that show is fantastic.
• 3:13
  SPEAKER_00: Another thing, too, I'm I imagine that we'll cover this.
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_00: I hope we cover it.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_00: Um uh The Guest.
• 3:19
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I think a lot of people who are into horror have probably seen The Guest.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_00: Um and I I really hope we cover it one day because I love that movie.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_00: Would do you think The Guest is a horror film?
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_00: I I I think it's at least horror anogalous.
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it basically turns into like a it goes kind of action-y into a slasher style ending.
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I guess it is.
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_02: Like I was talking with someone yesterday.
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_02: I guess no, it's not yeah, like I don't it's more like a movie, it's like a rom-com.
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_00: That movie, no, I think that movie pays tribute to the Carpenter films, so I think in some ways it's horror, but maybe maybe not like no.
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_00: I think you're right.
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_00: Actually, I think you're right.
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_02: Like, what other genre would that actually fit into?
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_02: It's not really an action film, it's not really a mystery, it's not a thriller film.
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_02: Maybe throw a thriller.
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_02: Thriller, yeah.
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_02: I would say thriller, more or less.
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_02: I just want to apologize because I went out very late last night, and my voice is very like I know you didn't, did you?
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_00: I did, yeah.
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_00: I I uh like I think for the first time in like a long like at least a couple years, I was downtown Windsor.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_00: Really?
• 4:33
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I was like drinking, yeah, like dancing and stuff.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, we were really yeah, I can't even picture that.
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_00: I know it's uh we went to Disco Inferno, which is like a 30s and older place typically.
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, that's cool.
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so that was pretty cool.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_00: So lots of coups, that's cool, but like not really, but not like there was also it was literally people like I would say late 20s and 30s.
• 4:57
  SPEAKER_02: I don't drink though, but I think I was up like I was trying to keep up with like a bunch of like drunk friends.
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_02: So I was like, Yay!
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_00: And like screaming and like being I partook, but I don't just because the way I feel when I when I drink these days, I'm I drink socially.
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_00: I don't I don't think I've gotten drunk since last like January 2025.
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_00: You know what's interesting?
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_02: This ties directly back into the podcast and what I'd want to talk about because a lot of what happens at the beginning of this film is really a theme on aging.
• 5:39
  SPEAKER_02: It is a theme on like what it means to be part of a group of friends, and as you transition from for me, it was like 38 to 42 that I went from being able to like go out and drink and find that like really cool and fun to like turning into someone who is like sober, and and I have different priorities now, and I I just I and I'll talk about it more when we get to that scene, but I I really enjoyed like this movie.
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, this movie touches on so many different themes, so like grief, masculinity, and then you've got Norse mythology.
• 6:19
  SPEAKER_02: And I was like watching it, going like, is this movie taking on too many themes?
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_02: But then, and then I even thought, like, oh, this could be like two entirely separate films, right?
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_02: It could be a film about this friend group and the breakdown over the death of their friend Robert, and all of the things that might come along with that, but then alternatively, you have this movie about like forest survival, you know, and Pagan witchcraft and Norse mythology, but then you realize like how succinctly they work together because their trauma is what informs like the creature's agenda.
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_02: So I started to really find that like they with with all of the things they had in their toolbox, it seemed to work out really well and it was paced really well.
• 7:13
  SPEAKER_02: I really liked it.
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think this is the hallmark of a good horror film, and I think this is why the hour and a half mark works really well with our with the best horror movies out there.
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_00: And this is one of my favorite movies in that generates so much tension and like creep factor without showing the monster in channel.
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you're a big fan of that, eh?
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_00: Well, yeah, and like I know it's it's a pro it's a popular trope in horror.
• 7:44
  SPEAKER_00: It's why like movies like Alien are like the build-up to the first reveal of the alien in the vent, it's you can generate so much fear and tension in the audience and the characters by having the actions of the monster be ever present without showing the beast.
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_00: And by the time you see this monster, I think a lot of people would agree with me that this is probably one of the best creature designs in modern horror since some of the horror films of the 80s and 90s.
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_02: Can I say, you know, like how harsh a critic I am about everything to do with like practical effects and CGI?
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_02: So this creature is a practical effect, and we'll talk about that a lot later in the podcast.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_02: But I really liked the creature design, and there was not a moment where I felt it took me out of the film, like like it was very the way that they filmed it, especially in the scenes at night where it was easier to film, I'm sure.
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, yeah.
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_02: It's like I don't think we needed to see to really experience the terror.
• 8:52
  SPEAKER_02: You know what's weird?
• 8:53
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, do you know when Luke is staring down the tree line and he first sees like the hand that is wrapped around the tree?
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_02: Yep.
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_02: That made me think, and I don't know about you, but for five seconds, I was like, is this going to be like the village?
• 9:13
  SPEAKER_02: Like, is this creature not at is this just like humans wrapped in creature?
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_02: You know what I mean?
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_02: Just for a minute, I'm like, is it that?
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_02: And then as we got to the end, I'm like, oh, that's what this is.
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_02: I didn't think they were gonna go for it, but they did.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_00: I uh I can't, I I do not like The Village at all.
• 9:35
  SPEAKER_00: I don't like so I fucking hate The Village.
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_00: Me too, and like I love this movie because it goes all in at the end.
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_00: I this is horror movies, there's a lot of horror movies out there that have a great two act one and two, and a lot of horror movies, a lot of movies in general uh about or creature features or whatever, but it can be tr it can be troubling sticking the landing um in terms of writing, directing, I imagine, to give a satisfying payoff to the audience.
• 10:04
  SPEAKER_00: And I think this movie does it like so well, and I I love the I love the third act, I love the ending, and I love the uh I love the creature and its themes that you were talking about earlier.
• 10:15
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm really excited to talk about uh those iconic scenes in this movie that that really like meld a creature feature um scare factor with like themes of guilt and survivor's guilt and like all the stuff that comes along with it, and the ending is awesome with our main character Luke, so uh we'll we'll get into later.
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_02: Also, there is a crazy scene at the end that we'll talk about where the creature kind of goes into a prayer position.
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_02: Yep, and it was okay.
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_02: I'm gonna save it because it also kind of yeah, okay, let's wait.
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, all right, we'll get down to ourselves here because that's a great scene talking about there's another scene, again, steering clear of opinion pieces that I really want to talk about later.
• 11:05
  SPEAKER_02: But the scene of the mummified, like screeching, oh, I'm horrific creatures.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_02: So I was obsessed.
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, just when this movie is like a layer cake full of all these like fascinating layers and interpersonal dynamics and Norse mythology and witchcraft, you're thinking, these creatures added like a whole other dimension.
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm still not a hundred percent sure what they were.
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I'm kind of sure, but like that was another scene where I was like, I just found that so incredibly fucking interesting.
• 11:49
  SPEAKER_02: Like, just when I thought I had like figured it out, because when Dom is upstairs getting tortured, basically, you're kind of hearing these like screechy, groamy things in the background.
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_00: The build up to that's awesome.
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, but you're not seeing you, you're not, in my opinion, like I wasn't associating that with the creature because I because I'm like, well, the creature has like these low growls and this like huge physical presence, but this seemed different.
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_02: So I was wondering through it, like, what is this?
• 12:20
  SPEAKER_00: Well, like let's let's stop it there because you uh like I can already tell you have a lot to say about it, and I I think I do too.
• 12:26
  SPEAKER_00: So let's put a pin in that until we get there.
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_00: Because I think we're I think you and I are we'll we'll like circle a vortex in a topic and get sucked easily.
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_00: So let's uh let's get there when we get there, and we'll have a lot to say about it.
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_02: You know, one more thing I wanted to mention when you talk about sticking the landing, there are countless horror films, and I will mention one really quickly Passenger that I saw in the theater.
• 12:57
  SPEAKER_02: That movie's like cold open or opening scene is so fucking good and so scary, and then the film just turns into like a bat, you know what I'm sick of?
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_02: I'm sick of like, oh, we just need holy water, or like that, like like just something so simple.
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_02: It's like the writer or the person who conceived it had like such a beautiful concept and idea, but they just didn't have a full film, and so then other people get involved to create this vision, and they're they're just don't yeah, I just a lot of films are like that, and it's the only highly frustrating.
• 13:39
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's the only horror movie I didn't see in this in our in the Windsor area here.
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_00: Um in the month of May.
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_00: I went, I kind of went on a marathon seen everything I could, but that's the one where I was like, ah, do I want to see theater?
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_00: I kind of do, but I'm gonna I'll wait for it to come out on stream.
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_00: Oh my god, yes, wait.
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_02: But also, there was another shitty entry called Obsession that I was like I'm obsessed.
• 14:01
  SPEAKER_00: That comes that that's apparently hitting streaming in 11 days.
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_00: Uh I can't wait to gobble that movie up.
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_02: All right, all right, okay, folks.
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_02: Time to get into some background for our research heads out there.
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_02: All right.
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_02: I okay.
• 14:17
  SPEAKER_02: Normally I do a bigger research piece.
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_02: There was a lot on this film, but I would say 75% of what I have read and written in this script is peppered throughout the film because I want to talk about certain things at certain scenes.
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_02: So the background may seem light, but it gets really this is probably the most dense podcast that we've done.
• 14:43
  SPEAKER_02: So buckle in, y'all.
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_02: Oh my god.
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_02: Sorry, I got all pull back on the Kirstie.
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_02: No one knows what that is.
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_02: So funny.
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_02: All right.
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, so the project began with British horror author Adam Neville's 2011 novel, The Ritual.
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_02: The book was a massive hit and praised for its suffocating atmosphere and its unique pivot from a survival thriller into visceral Norse occultism.
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_02: So, according to Ben MK in an article titled Interview, director David Bruckner and screenwriter Joe Barton on adapting the ritual, screenwriter Joe Barton was hired to adapt the text.
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_02: His most significant change was creating the opening liquor store robbery.
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_02: I want you to hear this because this is this to me makes the whole movie.
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_02: So in the original novel, the protagonist Luke is an aggressive, disliked member of the group, and their friend Rob is alive but absent from the trip.
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_02: So Barton and director David Bruckner realized that for a cinematic format, the characters needed a profound shared catalyst.
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_02: So they introduced the robbery and transformed the narrative from like a standard Lost in the Woods slasher into an active psychological study of grief and survival guilt.
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_02: And I like that because that becomes food for the creature.
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think you know.
• 16:10
  SPEAKER_00: No, no, go ahead.
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think that's that's interesting.
• 16:15
  SPEAKER_00: And I I think the the I mean, I don't know what the book does, but I don't know how you'd have such a compelling uh I guess story of this guy and his friends and the tension without that what happens in that robbery scene.
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I I think the novel was meant as more of like aforementioned, like a slasher.
• 16:39
  SPEAKER_02: Like they like in an alien, like they just are in the wrong place at the wrong time and they get hunted by this creature.
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_02: But this to me adds like such a visceral level of not only tension, but like their dream sequences and the way that they enter them and what those are.
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_02: I can't imagine this film like not having those.
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and also like I when I first saw this film and I was looking, uh, I actually I just remember this now.
• 17:09
  SPEAKER_00: So I I looked up people's ideas on the ending, right?
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_00: Back in the day.
• 17:13
  SPEAKER_00: Again, this is not recently, this is like this came out almost nine years ago, I guess.
• 17:18
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, I'm sure you did it for this one too.
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_00: And uh no.
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but uh there I remember seeing an opinion, a popular opinion online was that a lot of people did like how they did the movie better in some ways than the book.
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I think this is a case of I I I believe a lot of people feel that way from what I have read.
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_00: I also didn't realize this was directed by David Bruckner until today.
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's the reason why I obviously love his films.
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_00: I loved The Nighthouse.
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_00: Um, that movie really, especially towards the end, the that movie creeped me to my core.
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_02: I would love to cover that movie.
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_02: We should honestly do that next.
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_02: I I forgot how much I like the movie.
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_02: And I remember needing to like call you and go like what like I just didn't really understand it.
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_00: I think I remember I actually remember us discussing that, and I helped like I helped you kind of like get to the theme of like the or like the ending of that movie a little bit.
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, as you often do.
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_00: So I I fucking love that movie, and I'd be happy to do that next, actually.
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_00: And actually, I would I haven't seen it since it came out, and I would love another reason to rewatch it.
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_02: And I yeah, I think we I think we should watch that because that movie is interesting.
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, so like you said, enter director David Bruckner.
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_02: So at the time he was highly regarded for his contributions to anthologies VHS and Southbound.
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_02: I'm not sure if you saw Southbound, but there are some freaky crazy stories in Southbound, and I heavily enjoy that film.
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, he was also on the signal, right?
• 18:55
  SPEAKER_00: 2007.
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_00: No clue.
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so he so that's another thing I want to watch.
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_00: And also, it's funny you said anthology.
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_00: I'm pretty sure the signal is like a it, they don't call it like it's not individual stories, but they call it like sequences or something.
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_00: I I just briefly went into a fray this this morning, and I really want to watch that now because he was one of uh I think he's one of two or three directors that was on that, and I want to watch it now.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_00: So have you seen Southbound?
• 19:20
  SPEAKER_02: No, I haven't seen you should you should like literally watch that like right after this podcast.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_02: It's it's I'm not saying it's like an excellent film, but I think for a very low budget, the anthologies in that film are incredibly interesting and freaky, and I I don't know.
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_02: I I really enjoy it.
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_02: I've watched it several times.
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_02: I think it's really, really cool.
• 19:45
  SPEAKER_02: I will definitely check it out.
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_02: So the ritual marked Bruckner's very first time helming a full-length feature film entirely on his own.
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_02: In interviews with Scream Horror magazine, Bruckner stated that he was drawn to how the script grounded cosmic mythological terror into highly localized, claustrophobic male relationships.
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_02: Very interesting, and we'll definitely talk more about those male relationships.
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_02: As it pertains to filming, so the initial film rights were optioned by Stilking Films, a European production company.
• 20:19
  SPEAKER_02: They recognized the cinematic potential of the Scandinavian wilderness, but needed a creative partner specializing in digital character creation.
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_02: So in an interview with I for Film, director David Bruckner revealed that the crew was in a constant race against the seasons.
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_02: So filming at altitudes of up to 8,000 feet, the production faced unpredictable hailstorms, sudden snowstorms, and plummeting temperatures.
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_02: So if heavy snow fell too early, it would completely ruin the visual continuity of the film's autumn timeline, and they would have to just wait for it to melt.
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_02: So to capture the pitch black, claustrophobic atmosphere of the movie's most terrifying sequences, the crew endured an incredibly demanding schedule.
• 21:07
  SPEAKER_02: And director David Bruckner noted in an interview with the Movable Fest that the production required four straight weeks of strict night shoots.
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_02: Oh wow.
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_00: So they yeah, go ahead.
• 21:21
  SPEAKER_00: Does it does it mention did you mention where it was filmed yet?
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_02: I'm going to mention that when we get into the film because there's one thing, there's one thing that I wanted to talk about in particular that I thought was interesting, and I really want your opinion on it.
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah, let's hold that, but we are going to talk about that.
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, Andrew.
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_02: I want to get into critical response.
• 21:47
  SPEAKER_02: How do you think the ritual was received?
• 21:52
  SPEAKER_00: Uh I I'm pretty sure this is it was received uh good.
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_00: Like well, I'm gonna guess it sat sits around a uh B B minus.
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna set like a 7.0 on IMDb, or actually it's a horror film, probably a six something, but uh yeah, I would I would say pretty good.
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, so on Rotten Tomatoes, the ritual received a 74% from a total of 96 reviews.
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_02: I believe it deserves to be a little higher than that, but as you said, it is a horror entry on Metacritic.
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_02: The film has a weighted average score of 57 out of 100 based on 18 critics, indicating mixed or average reviews, which also really surprised me.
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, this is the thing.
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_00: Like, uh I won't be surprised.
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_00: There's people like you'll see one of the most brilliant horror films you've ever seen, and you'll get some like commenters like this was dumb.
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_00: I was bored.
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, okay, cool, like moving on.
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_00: I so I I think horror, like anything, is just it's so subjective, and there's people that will watch a movie and won't see its brilliance.
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm not saying they're wrong, but I I think this is a film that is just like deserves a like you said.
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_00: I think this, I'm surprised this isn't higher rated by people by overall critics and stuff.
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_00: It's just a wonderful, wonderful film.
• 23:11
  SPEAKER_02: I'm really shocked that they're like, even just from their acting perspective, like them and their their banter and the way that they interact with each other, like that alone.
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_02: That's why I was saying, like, if this was separated into two films, both films are really, really strong.
• 23:25
  SPEAKER_02: So 57 out of 100, I mean, I don't even know who's like actually fucking weighing that score because that doesn't seem uh very accurate.
• 23:35
  SPEAKER_02: Um okay, so listen to this.
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_02: So Kyle Kohner of the playlist gave the film a negative review saying David Bruckner had all the ingredients for a horror masterpiece, deceptively scenic wilderness shots, great character camaraderie, dreadful atmosphere and setting, but the ritual winds up a missed opportunity.
• 23:58
  SPEAKER_02: And I am like, What the can you qualify that bitch?
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_00: So he pretty much says everything's great that we see in the film, like the characters, the setting, the atmosphere.
• 24:12
  SPEAKER_00: What?
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_00: The plot.
• 24:15
  SPEAKER_00: Like, okay.
• 24:23
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_02: So that's what I mean.
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_02: So going back, like, I mean, critical, the thing is, I believe that critics attempt to be objective when they are obviously reviewing a film, but the subjectivity of being human comes into play.
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_02: And like his review is his personal opinion of this film, but it also like I only got a snippet of that that quote.
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know if it was longer and if he could qualify his thoughts.
• 24:51
  SPEAKER_02: But I don't think this movie got the appreciation that it deserved.
• 24:55
  SPEAKER_02: And I watched it twice, and I really, really enjoyed it.
• 25:00
  SPEAKER_02: And and yeah, so I'm not sure specifically, but yeah, it didn't do as well as I might have thought.
• 25:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, there's not a single moment in this movie where I'm like, eh, I wish I wasn't watching this.
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I'm I'm sucked into this movie from minute one and uh all the way to through the end.
• 25:15
  SPEAKER_00: I think the ending's still fantastic.
• 25:17
  SPEAKER_00: I think the creature reveal is fantastic.
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm I'm always I'm surprised by poor critical response, I guess.
• 25:23
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, me too, especially when it's a movie you like, you know what I mean?
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, again, not I shouldn't say surprised, like I said.
• 25:29
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not surprised.
• 25:30
  SPEAKER_00: I just like I don't understand it, I'd rather say, because I I just think this movie delivers what it's what it proposes.
• 25:37
  SPEAKER_02: So you know, even like obsession got like 42%.
• 25:40
  SPEAKER_02: It's like, you know, no, that movie got mentioning how bad that movie.
• 25:47
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know.
• 25:48
  SPEAKER_02: I don't think it's bad.
• 25:49
  SPEAKER_02: All right, let's talk numbers for a quick second before we move into the scene by scene.
• 25:55
  SPEAKER_02: So, according to IMDB, the ritual was produced on an estimated budget of$1 million, which kind of blows me away.
• 26:04
  SPEAKER_02: That blows my mind.
• 26:06
  SPEAKER_02: So the film's theatrical box office grossed about$1.78 million globally.
• 26:13
  SPEAKER_02: However, the movie was primarily a financial success because its international distribution rights were sold to Netflix for$4.75 million.
• 26:23
  SPEAKER_02: So, not uh an entirely successful film.
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_02: Also, it doesn't have any big American names attached to it.
• 26:33
  SPEAKER_02: So I could see it not being like financially super viable, but this is one of those movies too.
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_00: Like, so I'll always despair Netflix for the insane amount, the insane amount of shitty films that go like basically our Netflix originals.
• 26:51
  SPEAKER_00: Um there's so many bad movies they put out.
• 26:55
  SPEAKER_00: And this is a movie I saw where like I remember seeing it, it was like it at least in Canada and this southern Ontario area, this did not go to theaters at all.
• 27:03
  SPEAKER_00: It went straight to it went straight to streaming.
• 27:06
  SPEAKER_00: I remember being finishing the film, and I was um my partner at the time, we were both like, how did this not go to theaters?
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_00: Like it's it's such a theater-worthy movie that I would have paid, I would have happily paid the 40 bucks of food and the ticket to$400 to go to the movies to hear assholes talk.
• 27:27
  SPEAKER_02: I would have happy.
• 27:28
  SPEAKER_02: Shut up.
• 27:29
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I would have happily taken an additional uh money against my mortgage to go to the to go to the movies to see to see this thing.
• 27:36
  SPEAKER_00: I was so surprised it was like a Netflix straight to streaming movie because it's so good.
• 27:41
  SPEAKER_02: You know what?
• 27:41
  SPEAKER_02: I don't want to be critical of the theater, but if you want people like if you want butts and seeds, like fucking lower the price slightly.
• 27:49
  SPEAKER_00: Funny you say that, but in the in this year uh 2026, uh, there are theaters like AMC in the US reporting the highest theater attendance since pre-COVID.
• 27:59
  SPEAKER_00: Oh Jesus.
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 28:01
  SPEAKER_00: And you know what?
• 28:02
  SPEAKER_00: All of a sudden, what's happened this year?
• 28:04
  SPEAKER_00: Some of the best horror films have come out in a long time.
• 28:07
  SPEAKER_00: Some of like we've had Project Hail Mary.
• 28:10
  SPEAKER_00: There it turns out it turns out that if if studios start putting good movies in theaters and not remake slop and like bore fests, people will actually go pay to 50 bucks to go see a movie.
• 28:23
  SPEAKER_00: You know what else is interesting?
• 28:24
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, every movie that I have been to, and you have been with me when this has happened, someone is fucking talking throughout the whole thing.
• 28:34
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know what is going on, but it is like if you are listening, don't talk in a theater, please.
• 28:43
  SPEAKER_00: So this is really interesting.
• 28:45
  SPEAKER_00: And one again, I'm bringing up obsession here.
• 28:48
  SPEAKER_00: Obsession, one of the reasons why I love this movie so much and obsessed with it, but I love the pop culture zeitgeist around the movie too, because it's brought forward a lot of things that people have issues with in the movie going experience.
• 29:02
  SPEAKER_00: And the one thing that I have fine solidarity with is the rage towards the the younger generation going to the movies that can't get off their fucking phones.
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_02: No, they can't get off their fucking phone and they can't shut the phone.
• 29:14
  SPEAKER_00: And they're checking, they're checking it throughout the movie.
• 29:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, exactly.
• 29:18
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I always said to my friends, I'm like, though, I'm addicted to my phone, and the one reason I love a movie is for that entire experience, I don't touch my phone, I put it in the silent, I put my watch on theater mode, and I just sit down and watch it.
• 29:32
  SPEAKER_00: And um my first viewing of obsession was fantastic, but I remember when I saw it the second time, there was the really creepy scene, and I think this goes down to people being uncomfortable, so they manifest it as laughter.
• 29:46
  SPEAKER_00: Um I when there's a scene in the movie where the art character Nikki's watching um Bears Sleep, famous scene, hilarious, it's it's it's like terrifying, but also like funny for a split second.
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_00: But like there's just like talking and the giggling happening during like the non-stuff funny stuff, and I'm like, like guys, just just shut up, please.
• 30:08
  SPEAKER_00: Like, just enjoy the movie.
• 30:09
  SPEAKER_02: It's just like Can I just tell you something and then we can talk about the ritual.
• 30:16
  SPEAKER_00: Sorry, this is not, guys, this is not a podcast on like on the movie theater experience.
• 30:21
  SPEAKER_00: I think we actually could probably talk about that for like an hour straight.
• 30:24
  SPEAKER_02: No, we fucking should bring on a guest host and talk about that because it's crazy.
• 30:29
  SPEAKER_02: But I wanted to say, like, when I saw Nightmare in Elm Street 3, I always have to bring up Nightmare in Elm Street, but they're great movies.
• 30:36
  SPEAKER_02: I get it.
• 30:36
  SPEAKER_02: I saw Nightmare Elm Street 3, which is in my top 10 favorite horror movies of all time.
• 30:41
  SPEAKER_02: Do you understand what that means to someone like me?
• 30:44
  SPEAKER_02: It's huge.
• 30:45
  SPEAKER_02: I go with my friend Tom, we go to the review cinema in Toronto to watch this film.
• 30:51
  SPEAKER_02: Are people not giggling and whooping at parts that I'm like, nothing about this part is funny?
• 31:02
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 31:03
  SPEAKER_02: In fact, this part is kind of sad.
• 31:07
  SPEAKER_02: But because you think in your head, this equals campy, I equal I'm gonna be loud and treat this as a campy movie, but it's there's nothing campy to me about Nightmare on Elm Street part three.
• 31:22
  SPEAKER_02: And so I know that's a little different.
• 31:25
  SPEAKER_02: It's kind of exactly what you're saying.
• 31:27
  SPEAKER_02: It's like it is, it's like respect the fact that like we're in a movie, you don't need to force laughter, like you can actually sit into it, enjoy it, and yeah, anyway, that's my little diatribe on like my movie going theater experiences lately have just been like terrible.
• 31:44
  SPEAKER_02: Wait, the reason I brought up like both Obsession and Project Hail Mary, the theater was packed and everyone was really quiet.
• 31:54
  SPEAKER_02: And I wonder if it's because it was just a really captivating cinematic experience, and that's why they were like actually shutting the fuck up.
• 32:05
  SPEAKER_00: I think too, this is why I think my experiences were different between both viewings of Obsession.
• 32:10
  SPEAKER_00: The first time there's people there that wanted to see it day one, the hype train had not reached maximum yet.
• 32:18
  SPEAKER_00: And then I saw it two weeks later, and that now word of mouth is spread.
• 32:22
  SPEAKER_00: Weekend two, weekend three had bigger box office returns than the weekend previous.
• 32:26
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so I think you had a lot more people out seeing the movies that maybe wouldn't have normally gone to see it day one.
• 32:33
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's the result that is like people, some people that would not normally go to the movies, maybe being a bit bored with their and their friend one of the friend groups of movie goers, like, hey, let's go.
• 32:41
  SPEAKER_00: And then you get these people who don't really want to be there.
• 32:44
  SPEAKER_00: And I think the last thing I'll say before we get back to the ritual about any movie going experience, anytime I watch the movie, is I don't I'm not sure the words are I owe it or we owe it to the the filmmakers, but I always try, but I I always go in where I am actively letting myself I want to be immersed by the movie and I want to sign up for whatever the cast and crew want to put me through with this movie.
• 33:08
  SPEAKER_02: Also, oh my god, I'm gonna go on for like 10 years about this because uh anyway, okay, I'm gonna stop myself because do you agree with that?
• 33:16
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I I think no, I agree with you.
• 33:18
  SPEAKER_02: Like the thing is you're sparking like so much passion in me because I'm like, it's just like during the passenger, these like teens came in like 15 minutes late, missed the most, the arguably the best scene in the whole film.
• 33:33
  SPEAKER_02: They sat right behind me and were talking at full volume like we are now, until the point where I was like, I had to go out and get the security to come in and tell them to shut up.
• 33:44
  SPEAKER_02: But I'm like, you you spent all of this money.
• 33:48
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, the film was not great, but there were some scary moments that I couldn't even enjoy because they're sitting behind me, like talking.
• 33:55
  SPEAKER_02: I'm like, why did you come here?
• 33:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I wish we had, I kind of wish we had one of those like niche theaters like Alamo Draft House that enforces it to like the nth degree, where it's like you don't shut up, you get it, you get kicked out.
• 34:07
  SPEAKER_00: And uh I I wish we had one of those here.
• 34:10
  SPEAKER_00: And it's why, like, in we have two theaters here in in Windsor, and one of them I will do everything in my power to not go to because it's gaggles of teens that hang outside.
• 34:20
  SPEAKER_00: And by the way, if you're a teenager listening to this, I don't have an issue with eventually, but I don't even think we have teenagers listening to this.
• 34:27
  SPEAKER_00: Definitely not.
• 34:28
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, but I'll just say the kind of teens that hang out there, just not my scene.
• 34:33
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so it's I would like it would be cool to go to a movie where it's like they would enforce talking and phone use a little more.
• 34:41
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, uh, you know what I want?
• 34:42
  SPEAKER_02: I want because they have that stupid thing at the beginning of the film that's like Suki Snap.
• 34:46
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, Tammy Texture.
• 34:48
  SPEAKER_02: Tommy Tommy.
• 34:49
  SPEAKER_00: Tommy Texter.
• 34:51
  SPEAKER_02: Tommy's wasted.
• 34:53
  SPEAKER_02: He needs to go to the hospital.
• 35:02
  unknown: Okay.
• 35:02
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, Andrew, are you ready to get into the ritual of it all?
• 35:08
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
• 35:10
  unknown: Okay.
• 35:11
  SPEAKER_02: Today Absolutely.
• 35:13
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, let's do it.
• 35:14
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 35:15
  SPEAKER_02: Today, uh, Andrew and I are gonna break down this film scene by scene.
• 35:18
  SPEAKER_02: So if you haven't seen it, pause, take a break, and come back and join us.
• 35:24
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely worth it.
• 35:25
  SPEAKER_02: It seriously, watch this movie.
• 35:28
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, this is this is a worthwhile watch.
• 35:31
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 35:33
  SPEAKER_02: So we open with a group of male friends enjoying some drinks at the pub and floating ideas for their next vacation.
• 35:39
  SPEAKER_02: They decide they're getting much too old to party in a biza, and one of them floats the idea of hiking in the Swedish mountains, deciding that's much more their speed these days.
• 35:49
  SPEAKER_02: And I like this scene because you see a divergence of ideas because some of the members of the group are aging, they have wives and children now, and they just can't party like they used to.
• 36:02
  SPEAKER_02: And like, I can a hundred percent relate to this.
• 36:06
  SPEAKER_00: And I yeah, I loved I love this conversation when someone suggests Ibiza, and he's like, We're too old for that.
• 36:13
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, a hell, like, I that sounds like a name for me to go clubbing and drinking an all-nighters, uh, sounds like a nightmare.
• 36:23
  SPEAKER_02: Like lit, like a literal, literal nightmare.
• 36:26
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I'm 40 blank now, and all I really want to do, and it took a while.
• 36:31
  SPEAKER_02: Like, this is why I like the scene because it took a while for me to come to terms with the fact that I would prefer like a beach, campfire, like daytime hangs.
• 36:42
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I want to be in bed by 10.
• 36:44
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I want to be in bed by like 10:30.
• 36:47
  SPEAKER_02: And that's okay.
• 36:48
  SPEAKER_02: It's like I partied for like 10 years, like I think I'm good.
• 36:52
  SPEAKER_02: But the thing is, you can tell Luke cannot, like, he can't deal with the fact that he's getting older, and that is what propels them into the convenience store.
• 37:06
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, okay, that's cool.
• 37:08
  SPEAKER_02: Do you know what I mean?
• 37:09
  SPEAKER_02: It's like he can't let the night die.
• 37:12
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you're right.
• 37:13
  SPEAKER_02: He wants another drink to keep going.
• 37:14
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, absolutely.
• 37:15
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, and like that's what I'm talking about.
• 37:17
  SPEAKER_02: It's like it his inability to like deal with the fact that he is, I'm assuming, late 30s, early 40s.
• 37:27
  SPEAKER_02: Imagine he's like 30.
• 37:29
  SPEAKER_02: Sorry to the actor, but but yeah, like that, that's kind of why I thought that scene was so important.
• 37:34
  SPEAKER_02: And like I was sitting at home and I'm like, I can relate to like honestly, you're a lot younger than me, and you I don't know what your experience is, but like for me, getting to the age that I'm at now, it has been there have been painful moments where I'm like, oh my god, like you know, you see like Saturday night and you see like tons of people out, and like all the kids are out, and you're like, I don't really want to do that anymore.
• 37:58
  SPEAKER_02: It's not even like I can't do it, it's like my priorities have changed.
• 38:03
  SPEAKER_02: I have a wife and kid.
• 38:04
  SPEAKER_02: No, I'm kidding.
• 38:06
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I think you know, you're right.
• 38:08
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I think we've all had, especially as you get into your late 30s and older, um, some people happens earlier, but I think you we all have these moments, these like tender thought moments where we look back and see that the passage of time has been quick.
• 38:25
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, and that you can sometimes be hit with a dose, an unexpected dose of existentialism, where you kind of sit with your feelings for a second, and there it's there's a sadness to it, and they also have that nostalgic feeling for times gone by.
• 38:46
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, big time.
• 38:47
  SPEAKER_00: And I think as we get older, it's you'll have those wounds a little more often, but you kind of have to take a step back and realize actually, my life is amazing right now.
• 38:56
  SPEAKER_00: I have great people in it, there's still so much like life left to live.
• 39:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and like but and we can't get caught up in this you know, the past, I guess.
• 39:05
  SPEAKER_00: But again, once in a while, especially if you've been drinking or you you have had a night, it can be like, I don't want to let this go right now.
• 39:12
  SPEAKER_00: So I think this is this is a great example of that.
• 39:17
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, so as they pour into the streets, they continue discussing the vacation options, and one of the men, Luke, as aforementioned, decides the fun ain't over yet and convinces his pal Robert to join him in attaining more booze.
• 39:33
  SPEAKER_02: He does not want the party to end.
• 39:36
  SPEAKER_02: So inside the convenience store, Luke expresses his unhappiness with the vacation options being floated, and he says, Don't you think when we meet up, it's getting harder to have a good time?
• 39:46
  SPEAKER_02: And he's like, Phil even suggested making their get-together a brunch, and so there's like more of that uh inability to accept the the aging process, and the fact that like another huge theme here is that friend groups change.
• 40:06
  SPEAKER_02: Like, if you've ever hung out with like legacy friends, yeah, they're a lot different than the friends that you've like curated in later adulthood.
• 40:16
  SPEAKER_02: And so I see this like group being held together by nostalgia.
• 40:20
  SPEAKER_00: And Luke, I think Luke makes kind of makes fun of Phil, and then Robert kind of says, Oh, yeah, like yeah, he's got it so bad, you know, successful career, wife, kids.
• 40:29
  SPEAKER_00: Um, which is kind of a funny moment to see, or not funny, I guess like it's an interesting exchange where you kind of see Luke's face that he's stuck in this.
• 40:39
  SPEAKER_00: I want to keep having a good time, but then you have Phil session brunches.
• 40:42
  SPEAKER_00: Well, it's like he's got a full family and a career, like, so life does change.
• 40:46
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, life changes and you age and like priorities change.
• 40:50
  SPEAKER_02: And it is funny because Rob Robert does say, yeah, shame.
• 40:54
  SPEAKER_02: A big successful businessman with beautiful children.
• 40:58
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's yeah, that's that's what I thought.
• 41:00
  SPEAKER_02: Although I will say, Dom is the most insufferable fucking character.
• 41:07
  SPEAKER_02: Like every time he talked, I was like, I was like jarred out of my like trance in this film.
• 41:13
  SPEAKER_00: I'm I'm getting I get the idea too.
• 41:15
  SPEAKER_00: We'll go into this more later.
• 41:16
  SPEAKER_00: I get the idea that regardless, even before the events of this film, that Dom never really liked Luke too much.
• 41:24
  SPEAKER_02: No, I don't think so.
• 41:25
  SPEAKER_02: And I I think that's also the dynamics in a friend group.
• 41:28
  SPEAKER_02: It's like there are people that you are closer to, but then there are like peripheral people that they might be closer to.
• 41:37
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that's what just a friendship dynamic alone is like an in like this movie does explore that in a way that I felt wasn't phoning it in.
• 41:46
  SPEAKER_02: Like it was satisfying to see this relationship breakdown.
• 41:50
  SPEAKER_00: I also too, I actually feel like I'm a bit like I'm a bit like Hutch in this movie in terms of Hutch kind of acts as a centrifuge or catalyst or like the connective tissue that gets these people together in the first place.
• 42:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 42:05
  SPEAKER_00: I I kind of feel like he's the guy that makes that happen.
• 42:07
  SPEAKER_00: Whereas, like, if left to their own devices, they probably wouldn't meet up so much.
• 42:11
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, agreed.
• 42:12
  SPEAKER_00: Whereas Hutch is very much like the peacekeeper trying to like, you know, he's hearing Luke, like Luke still wants to get together and have a good time, obviously, but he's very much the one that gets the four of them all together.
• 42:23
  SPEAKER_02: It's also like Hutch has this interesting dynamic within himself.
• 42:27
  SPEAKER_02: So like he is part partier, like he never he never like it doesn't, it doesn't strike me, like Luke never criticizes Hutch in these scenes, right?
• 42:35
  SPEAKER_02: He's critical of Dom and Phil, right?
• 42:38
  SPEAKER_02: So that's one thing.
• 42:39
  SPEAKER_02: The second thing is that I also see Hutch on the other side relating with Phil and Dom because he also has a wife and kids.
• 42:45
  SPEAKER_02: So, like you said, he he really is like their connective tissue.
• 42:49
  SPEAKER_02: He also makes a series of fucking stupid decisions, which we'll talk about.
• 42:54
  SPEAKER_02: Like, and this is when we are going to move okay.
• 42:59
  SPEAKER_02: Let's talk about the robbery uh quickly, and then we're gonna move from like friendship dynamics into like misogyny, essentially.
• 43:08
  SPEAKER_02: So we'll talk about that.
• 43:09
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm very interested to hear your little perspective.
• 43:12
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, just before uh Luke continues his criticism of his pals, you know, about their lack of adventure.
• 43:21
  SPEAKER_02: Before long, the two notice a woman cowering in the corner of the store, and she's clearly frightened and suddenly a cup and beat up.
• 43:32
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and suddenly a couple of robbers burst through a door demanding to know where it is, convinced there's more loot than what they'd previously been led to believe.
• 43:44
  SPEAKER_02: So as the shopkeeper sobs, the robbers take notice of Robert.
• 43:50
  SPEAKER_02: And by this point, the ever opinionated Luke has chosen to hide, choosing flight over fight, and this becomes like Obviously, super important later on.
• 44:03
  SPEAKER_02: But the robbers demand Robert give over his watch and wallet.
• 44:07
  SPEAKER_02: But when they ask about his ring, he refuses to give it up.
• 44:11
  SPEAKER_02: This enrages them, and one proceeds to club Robert over the head twice, killing him and leaving him on the floor of the convenience store.
• 44:22
  SPEAKER_00: I like this scene because I think it highlights the human response in that there's we always talk about fight or flight, but I think there's a third thing which is like just freezing.
• 44:30
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 44:31
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 44:31
  SPEAKER_00: This is yeah, Luke kind of flees for he hides, but he really is just frozen.
• 44:37
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 44:37
  SPEAKER_00: And I think part of him is contemplating maybe doing something, but he's just frozen.
• 44:45
  SPEAKER_02: I think this could also be interpreted, though, as a moment of cowardice.
• 44:53
  SPEAKER_02: But I also feel like it's a moment that I like I would like what is he supposed to do?
• 45:01
  SPEAKER_02: You know what I mean?
• 45:02
  SPEAKER_02: Like, there's no, in my opinion, there is no other option.
• 45:06
  SPEAKER_02: And he gets criticized for this later, and there's a big blowout, but I don't honestly know that in that situation I would be capable of doing anything other than protecting myself.
• 45:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think too, like this is what Luke does is the logical choice.
• 45:27
  SPEAKER_00: And I can fully understand the survivor's guilt amongst question yourself that I could have done something more, I could have distracted them, I could have come out from hiding and been like, hey, Rob, just give him the ring, let's just get this overall.
• 45:40
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 45:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 45:41
  SPEAKER_00: So I I fully understand that all the way.
• 45:43
  SPEAKER_00: And this is why this is the crux of his guilt that haunts him throughout the movie.
• 45:47
  SPEAKER_00: But what I don't like, and I think was kind of I think it's really, really unfair, is that we'll talk about this more later in some of these scenes, but that anyone could blame Luke?
• 45:59
  SPEAKER_00: Like, would like would anyone expect a regular citizen to engage robbers in who are armed with weapons in unarmed combat to save your friend and then also die?
• 46:13
  SPEAKER_00: Like, yeah, I really don't like the viewpoint that some of his friends take later on, where I'm like, I don't know.
• 46:19
  SPEAKER_00: It's I feel like good good, I feel I feel like good friends would be like, that would happen fucking sucks, and it's not your fault all the way.
• 46:27
  SPEAKER_00: Like they're armed robbers versus an unarmed group of people.
• 46:33
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 46:33
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm not getting chopped up with a knife.
• 46:36
  SPEAKER_02: That's true.
• 46:38
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, okay, so indeed Robert has uh passed away.
• 46:42
  SPEAKER_02: So we transition to a tent interior where Luke is waking, and some time has passed, and we learn the four leftover members of the group, Hutch, Luke, Phil, and Dom, have indeed decided to hike the Swedish mountains.
• 46:58
  SPEAKER_02: Now, this is where I want to bring up location because I thought this was really interesting.
• 47:01
  SPEAKER_02: So this was actually filmed in the Carpathian Mountains of Transylvania, Romania.
• 47:09
  SPEAKER_02: And don't you think that that may have made like for a more interesting film because of that's Dracula territory?
• 47:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it also I read this too.
• 47:24
  SPEAKER_00: Again, I didn't this is I didn't go into any background other than where this is filmed, but it's also contains uh some of the largest swaths of virgin forests in the area.
• 47:34
  SPEAKER_00: Uh I think that's really cool.
• 47:37
  SPEAKER_00: That like I think it's so cool that the the casting, like the the actors know they're making a movie about going to the woods and getting the creeps, and they actually get to film in woods they could actually get lost in because there's they go on for miles.
• 47:53
  SPEAKER_00: And the mountain range they filmed is the third largest mountain range in Europe.
• 47:58
  SPEAKER_00: I think at like I think it's like 930 miles long or something, or it's crazy.
• 48:04
  SPEAKER_00: It's the this the this mountain range is fantastic.
• 48:07
  SPEAKER_02: I just thought it was so cool.
• 48:09
  SPEAKER_02: They're filming in it's just weird that they're making a movie about Swiss Nordic mythology and they're filming it in Transylvania.
• 48:21
  SPEAKER_02: Like that is yeah, that's so bizarre.
• 48:24
  SPEAKER_02: Anyway, I thought that was a really, really cool uh yeah.
• 48:26
  SPEAKER_02: It's very beautiful.
• 48:27
  SPEAKER_02: This movie's very beautiful, too.
• 48:28
  SPEAKER_00: I think it also this whole scene.
• 48:31
  SPEAKER_00: I love the we get like a Viking style beat and tune playing in the background, but also we have the discord of the string instruments that are like we're kind of conveying the theme of that there's uncertainty and hardship ahead.
• 48:51
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I like I really like the tune that plays during this entire scene.
• 48:55
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know what's funny?
• 48:56
  SPEAKER_02: They actually so I was watching with subtitles on because I couldn't understand their accents at all.
• 49:02
  SPEAKER_02: Like I literally couldn't understand anything Hutch said.
• 49:05
  SPEAKER_02: I was like, I don't really know what they're talking about, Frank.
• 49:07
  SPEAKER_02: Hutch turns uses a lot of subtitles.
• 49:09
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I I I do watch subtitles, but Hutch particularly uses a lot of uh British slang.
• 49:15
  SPEAKER_02: But I wanted to say, so it kept saying like ominous music plays in the subtitles as they kind of traverse this landscape.
• 49:22
  SPEAKER_02: And so you hit the nail on the head, like it it's it's almost folkish, but it's also like bing bong, like you're kind of like it's unsettling.
• 49:34
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, exactly.
• 49:35
  SPEAKER_01: It's very, very cool.
• 49:36
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 49:36
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, so the group reach a spot atop a hill, and they decide this is the right place to pay tribute to their fallen comrade, Robert.
• 49:46
  SPEAKER_02: And I want to bring up a scene here because it's subtle, but it's important for Luke's character development.
• 49:52
  SPEAKER_02: So Hutch and Luke share a moment, and Luke has basically been quiet this entire time.
• 49:57
  SPEAKER_02: So, as the audience, we're seeing like a complete juxtaposition from the man we were introduced in the cold open.
• 50:06
  SPEAKER_02: Obviously, he's been deeply affected by the events of the convenience store, but Hutch assures him it wasn't his fault.
• 50:16
  SPEAKER_02: And we learn that Luke carries an incredible amount of guilt and pain.
• 50:21
  SPEAKER_02: And this becomes vitally important as we confront the mystic forces in the forest later on.
• 50:29
  SPEAKER_02: I also would like to point out that Hutch is kind of lying to him to make him feel better.
• 50:37
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I have two things to say here.
• 50:40
  SPEAKER_00: Uh Dom, so there's two dialogue exchanges here that happen one after the other.
• 50:46
  SPEAKER_00: First, atop the little effigy they make to their friend Robert as they pour a drink out for him, Dom says it should never have happened.
• 50:56
  SPEAKER_00: And the way he says it, Luke, we we pan to Luke's face, who gives him a quick look, and Luke has a expression of like guilt, and you know, he's got that facial expression on because the way Dom says it is almost accusatory without having to say it.
• 51:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 51:14
  SPEAKER_00: And then Hutch delivers, you're right, he does say it wasn't your fault, except we've you you didn't say what he said right the the line right before he says that in as part of the same sentence, is what I would say a backhanded um way to say this.
• 51:31
  SPEAKER_00: Hutch says, I don't care what anyone says, it wasn't your fault.
• 51:36
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's really dirty, and I think it's an unintentional Freudian slip of Hutch to say that to someone because he's letting Luke know that the rest of the group is saying it is his fault.
• 51:50
  SPEAKER_02: Ouch! That's like saying, Oh, like I don't care what anyone said about your performance in that play.
• 51:56
  SPEAKER_02: I liked it exactly.
• 51:58
  SPEAKER_02: What?
• 51:58
  SPEAKER_00: And like Hutch, we Hutch gets confronted.
• 52:03
  SPEAKER_00: Luke can we have the big blow in the woods, what I call the woods fight scene later on.
• 52:07
  SPEAKER_00: I have it uh in bold here.
• 52:10
  SPEAKER_00: Um I do think Hutch sets like this.
• 52:14
  SPEAKER_00: Is I know like it's just such a shitty thing.
• 52:17
  SPEAKER_00: I think Hutch was like, he is the last bastion for Luke to like of being a good friend in that group.
• 52:24
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and to hear him say that just I think would be poisonous, and I think is ultimately does help sow the seeds for this guilt, guilted journey that uh Luke goes on with the creature and the woods.
• 52:40
  SPEAKER_02: I want to say one more thing, too, is like Dom brings up a point much later in the film, like in between whining, but he says something to the effect of like, don't don't let this make us like crazy, like we're getting crazier.
• 52:53
  SPEAKER_02: And so, like this conversation could be just the beginning of a slight unravel, like just micro.
• 53:03
  SPEAKER_02: But the reason I say that is because when you spend days on end with people, things slip, and oh yeah, your protective shell begins to crack because you don't have enough time on your own to like regenerate, like you're just constantly spewing out energy, and so this becomes a thing where like it leads up to like you said, the big woods fight later, but also I love to get to that that analogy is fucking fantastic.
• 53:31
  SPEAKER_00: It's the that regenerative shell of the what we want everyone around us to see from us versus letting our guard down just kind of no filter.
• 53:41
  SPEAKER_00: But and this is why, as an aside, people uh before you move in with someone or date someone long term, go on a vacation with them, go on a trip.
• 53:50
  SPEAKER_00: And uh, because this is exactly this kind of stuff happens.
• 53:53
  SPEAKER_02: So when are you when are you and your partner going away?
• 53:56
  SPEAKER_00: I think we might go.
• 53:57
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not kidding.
• 53:58
  SPEAKER_00: I think we I might uh in the end of July, so that'll be fun.
• 54:01
  SPEAKER_00: Like on a hiking trip.
• 54:02
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not even kidding.
• 54:03
  SPEAKER_00: Alright.
• 54:08
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, what happens next is plot point number one of silly decisions.
• 54:14
  SPEAKER_02: And this is a point in which I have to just kind of enjoy the movie and suspend a little criticism because Dong, who again I can only describe as a giant entitled Man Child, of course, tears his meniscus mid-hike, and the team have to slow themselves down.
• 54:32
  SPEAKER_02: Now, listen to this.
• 54:34
  SPEAKER_02: Hutch takes this moment to let them know they have around 14 hours before reaching their next destination.
• 54:41
  SPEAKER_02: But Dom counters with, I'm not doing 14 hours on this man, and therein lies the beginning of terrible decision making because Hutch and Luke hatch a plan, and Hutch lets Luke know if they go southress through the forest, they can cut their journey in half.
• 55:01
  SPEAKER_02: Now, my question to you, Andrew, is is it a stupid decision to go through the forest to save time, despite the fact that you don't really know where you're going, versus a path that I am positive they have mapped out to a small science.
• 55:25
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, this is this is like bad decision hiking, bad decision 101.
• 55:30
  SPEAKER_00: And anyone who who's been in the hiking world or knows anything about hiking stories knows this is a fucking terrible idea.
• 55:37
  SPEAKER_00: Um, because unless you are with, I'm at this clear, an experienced, and I mean, not just like someone who's done it a bunch, I mean a trained navigator.
• 55:46
  SPEAKER_00: Um you cannot do this.
• 55:48
  SPEAKER_00: There are people, there are stories of hikers being lost in much smaller square footage forests where they just end up walking around in a circle for days on end, and they're found by rescuers, like, hey, like the forest edge was only you know four five miles west.
• 56:02
  SPEAKER_00: Why don't you guys just keep walking in a straight line?
• 56:04
  SPEAKER_00: And they'll be like, Oh, we well, we did.
• 56:06
  SPEAKER_00: But it's like, no, because you they think with a compass that they can just walk in a straight line, but you hit obstacles, you hit stuff you can't control, so you have to go around, and that fucks up your whole thing.
• 56:18
  SPEAKER_00: And if you look at this the way this movie, they they can show you on the map, they're on a ridge, so their entire hike would be out in the open.
• 56:26
  SPEAKER_00: Um, they could see the forests and see around them, and it would be a hell of a lot better than what happens to them.
• 56:33
  SPEAKER_00: And honestly, the 14 hours, that's nothing compared to the amount of time they actually end up spending in the woods.
• 56:39
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's like it's the what if.
• 56:42
  SPEAKER_00: Do not ever go uncharted.
• 56:44
  SPEAKER_00: Do not, like in all serious, I know it's a horror movie, but for everyone listening, do not ever do uncharted hiking without someone who knows what exactly what the hell they're doing.
• 56:53
  SPEAKER_02: Don't even do uncharted hiking in like a city park.
• 56:56
  SPEAKER_02: Like, make sure you have like I just think it's weird because like this is where I want to challenge.
• 57:06
  SPEAKER_02: Um, we're gonna talk about something in a second, but this is where I think the movie really highlights to me a little bit of misogyny, and I'm going to tell you why in a moment.
• 57:19
  SPEAKER_02: So the team agrees this is a great idea and proceeds to enter the dense mountain forest.
• 57:27
  SPEAKER_02: Good idea.
• 57:28
  SPEAKER_02: So almost immediately after the group leaves the marked trail to take a shortcut through the woods, Hutch checks his compass and notices the needle spinning erratically and failing to point north.
• 57:42
  SPEAKER_02: The forest also creates a quiet, almost soundless environment.
• 57:52
  SPEAKER_02: So what does Hutch do?
• 57:54
  SPEAKER_02: He does not mention a single fucking thing to anyone in the party, and this happened so early upon entry that they could easily have turned around.
• 58:07
  SPEAKER_02: And this is where I want to say, and I want you to challenge me if you want, but it spells out for me misogyny because, in my opinion, this guy is so masculine as to not let others in on the fact that A, maybe he made a mistake, and B, he doesn't know where he's going, like he has to be the smartest person in the room.
• 58:30
  SPEAKER_00: I think I think a couple things here.
• 58:33
  SPEAKER_00: I wouldn't while we we can say that maybe due to you know um misogynistic culture or just like the residualness of growing up a man in a society that is about the patriarchy, uh, that maybe yes, his ego is unwilling to admit he made a mistake.
• 58:56
  SPEAKER_00: I will say, I think in in defense of human nature here, um a lot of people are are, especially when they've just suggested something, to admit wrong and fault so soon, be like, oh like for some people, I don't think I struggle with this, but for some people that can be a hard pill to swallow.
• 59:17
  SPEAKER_00: So maybe he's counting the fact that you know what, fuck it.
• 59:20
  SPEAKER_00: We just we'll stick the path.
• 59:22
  SPEAKER_00: We were going straight, let's just it'll fix itself, right?
• 59:25
  SPEAKER_00: Like, because Hutch, you'll see later, Hutch rationalizes a bunch of stupid stuff that happens.
• 59:30
  SPEAKER_02: We're gonna talk about I have so much to say about this, and it feels like I'll yeah, we'll talk about it.
• 59:35
  SPEAKER_00: We have Hutch and Luke, we have Hutch and Dom who will later on will rationalize some pretty insane stuff, and we have Luke and Phil who are more willing to be like, something's wrong here.
• 59:47
  SPEAKER_00: Um, yeah, uh my second thing I'll say is based on what we see later, and maybe it they haven't succumbed to it yet.
• 59:56
  SPEAKER_00: So maybe they could have still exited the forest.
• 59:58
  SPEAKER_00: I think there's a point in this movie, a point of no return, where even if they had clear-cut directions, the forest would never have ended for them until they're allowed to leave.
• 1:00:08
  SPEAKER_02: I don't I you could a hundred percent positive.
• 1:00:13
  SPEAKER_02: I'm not sure.
• 1:00:15
  SPEAKER_02: I think I don't think it's the forest won't let them leave.
• 1:00:19
  SPEAKER_02: I think the forest does whatever it can to keep them trapped.
• 1:00:23
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, like the thing is like I like I think they can leave.
• 1:00:26
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's very hard for them to leave.
• 1:00:29
  SPEAKER_00: I think what we see later with this creature, I think would have done a lot of things to make it impossible to leave until a certain event happens, which we'll talk about later.
• 1:00:40
  SPEAKER_02: But um so I want to pause here just for a second and say, like, because like if this wasn't a movie about a forest-dwelling monster entity, I completely could have watched a movie about just their dynamic and the exploration of like their friendship and the breakdown.
• 1:00:55
  SPEAKER_02: But then this adds like a whole other layer.
• 1:00:57
  SPEAKER_00: I think it I think that could totally be a movie in of itself of a group having to survive days on end being lost in a forest with that dynamic, I think is could have been a great character film.
• 1:01:08
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and also just like the unraveling of their friendship over this like you know thing that happened.
• 1:01:13
  SPEAKER_02: So so things do start to heat up a little inside the forest.
• 1:01:17
  SPEAKER_02: So as the four reminisce about Robert's days getting pissed at uni, Luke is stopped dead at the sight of a dark figure hung up within the trees.
• 1:01:27
  SPEAKER_02: As we get closer, we notice at first what seemed almost human is a gutted deer with its chest wide open.
• 1:01:36
  SPEAKER_02: And the group pause it, it might have been a bear or perhaps some hunters.
• 1:01:41
  SPEAKER_02: But why would they position it like that?
• 1:01:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's posed in a very creepy way.
• 1:01:47
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and Luke remarks that it's still bleeding, that it's a fresh kill, and they should go.
• 1:01:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, this is like so this is where Hutch maybe should have put that, like, this should have been a reminder to Hutchin, hey, before I got it wrong, the compass isn't working.
• 1:02:08
  SPEAKER_00: This is definitely the harbinger of ill omen.
• 1:02:12
  SPEAKER_00: So let us go back the way we came and get out of here.
• 1:02:15
  SPEAKER_02: But they don't even they the group does not recognize that it is indeed strange.
• 1:02:23
  SPEAKER_02: So it gets weirder.
• 1:02:26
  SPEAKER_02: So as uh as day transitions to evening and the rain begins to pummel them, Luke takes notice of something else.
• 1:02:34
  SPEAKER_02: This I thought was very Blair-wish and very cool.
• 1:02:37
  SPEAKER_02: A symbol carved into the bark of a tree.
• 1:02:40
  SPEAKER_02: And as the group investigate, they also notice a wooden structure looming behind the trees, a house, a cabin in the woods.
• 1:02:50
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 1:02:51
  SPEAKER_02: So as they effectively break into the house, we can clearly hear various like ominous noises from outside, and this mesmerizes Luke.
• 1:03:04
  SPEAKER_02: Now, I don't believe that they should have broken into this house.
• 1:03:10
  SPEAKER_02: And to add insult to injury, when they get inside the house and start breaking furniture to build a fire, it's like someone could live here.
• 1:03:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, this so like it's it's important to note that it is storming with torrential rain.
• 1:03:28
  SPEAKER_00: So I think they quickly rationalize breaking in because they don't want to set up tents because these guys are not survivalists, right?
• 1:03:36
  SPEAKER_00: So they probably, as hikers, don't want to set up tents in the pouring rain in the woods.
• 1:03:42
  SPEAKER_00: So they they they they quickly rationalize breaking into this house, and yeah, right, they immediately insult like no one should have moved in here in the first place, kind of thing.
• 1:03:49
  SPEAKER_00: Like this is a shithole, like very like destructive teenage behavior here for for a second.
• 1:03:57
  SPEAKER_02: Like, Dom takes a full-on piece of furniture and breaks it against the stairwell and just says, like, who the fuck cares?
• 1:04:06
  SPEAKER_02: Yep.
• 1:04:08
  SPEAKER_02: Dom's I hate Dom.
• 1:04:09
  SPEAKER_02: I fucking really hate Dom.
• 1:04:12
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 1:04:12
  SPEAKER_02: When inside Phil begins to explore the dwelling, ascending the stairwell and opening a closed door, he discovers something interesting: a headless human figure made of straw holding two antlers in the air.
• 1:04:29
  SPEAKER_02: And he remarks that it's you know, it's likely witchcraft, and Hutch says, or some kind of Nordic offering.
• 1:04:40
  SPEAKER_02: But as freaky as this is, the four agree to like stick around and spend the night.
• 1:04:48
  SPEAKER_02: Even though I'd be like, I need to get the royal fuck out of here.
• 1:04:54
  SPEAKER_01: And so, like, yeah, like I think, yeah.
• 1:04:58
  SPEAKER_00: Sorry, let me cut you off there, Frank.
• 1:04:59
  SPEAKER_00: I think this is where I would say this night is the point of no return for this party.
• 1:05:05
  SPEAKER_00: Big where like I think this spending the night here is the first time they're gonna we're gonna talk about in a second, they're gonna get exposed to the nightmares from this creature.
• 1:05:15
  SPEAKER_00: And I do think at this point there's no hope in hell of them ever leaving this forest.
• 1:05:21
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, so this is where like things get really interesting, and I'd like to unpack a couple things.
• 1:05:27
  SPEAKER_02: So later that evening, as the men lie sleeping, Luke is startled awake by a bright light outside, and as he opens the door, he is thrust inside the convenience store, the one where Robert died.
• 1:05:40
  SPEAKER_02: And as he reaches for a bottle of vodka, the row from which he pulls it suddenly collapses to reveal the forest.
• 1:05:50
  SPEAKER_02: Now, firstly, I absolutely adored the practical effects in this scene.
• 1:05:58
  SPEAKER_02: I thought this was absolutely Absolutely fantastic.
• 1:06:03
  SPEAKER_02: Secondly, according to like I I wanted to possibly talk about this later once we learn what this is, but I feel like this is no like there's no better time.
• 1:06:16
  SPEAKER_02: So according to author Destiny King, the ancient deity in the film possesses the ability to inflict nightmarish hallucinations targeting deep-seated guilt and trauma.
• 1:06:30
  SPEAKER_02: And the creature uses hallucinations as like a diagnostic tool to scan the minds of the men and identify their deepest vulnerabilities.
• 1:06:42
  SPEAKER_02: Why is it trying to identify their deepest vulnerabilities?
• 1:06:46
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah, let's talk about it.
• 1:06:49
  SPEAKER_00: I'll pause at this.
• 1:06:50
  SPEAKER_00: I think this creature is load is trying to figure out which of these members possesses the most pain.
• 1:06:58
  SPEAKER_00: And I think Luke is the obvious choice of having the most amount of guilt, the survivors, survivor guilt, and pain that he carries with him, with characters like Dom, Phil, Hutch not really having gone through anything like this.
• 1:07:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:07:13
  SPEAKER_00: And it's why out of the four of them, only Luke is marked.
• 1:07:17
  SPEAKER_00: Because we're going to go into this lore a bit later with the when we finally get to act three, but I think this creature passively feasts on the worshipper's pain and subsequently allows them to live, and I say live in in quotes here, live forever because it feasts on their pain passively.
• 1:07:41
  SPEAKER_00: Um and I think uh uses these dreams, it inflicts these nightmares to bring up the most deep-rooted moments of their lives that are affecting them.
• 1:07:52
  SPEAKER_00: And Luke is the obvious choice here.
• 1:07:55
  SPEAKER_02: Because it effectively is D Mang who's worthy.
• 1:08:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and worthy, I think worthiness in this case is a different meaning as a regards to the worthy of the group is not the strongest or the best worshiper.
• 1:08:10
  SPEAKER_00: It is the weakest, possibly the one with the most pain as the most worthy to worship this deity.
• 1:08:18
  SPEAKER_02: But I don't think it's the weakest.
• 1:08:20
  SPEAKER_02: It's like whoever, it's almost the strongest.
• 1:08:22
  SPEAKER_02: It's like whoever can live and carry this amount of pain is worthy enough for the creature to feed on.
• 1:08:31
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, okay.
• 1:08:32
  SPEAKER_02: I like that a lot.
• 1:08:33
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:08:33
  SPEAKER_02: And so that's why, like, initially, when I was like, oh, like these could be two different movies, and like I think this and that.
• 1:08:38
  SPEAKER_02: I think it's because I didn't, I thought, like, oh, we're gonna have this big character arc with like Luke.
• 1:08:45
  SPEAKER_02: And obviously, I knew I kind of knew there would be like some form of like payoff there, but I didn't realize until obviously watching the film, like how much that guilt played into the creature directly.
• 1:08:58
  SPEAKER_02: And so that's why I feel like you know, it could work as two separate films, but it totally works as one.
• 1:09:04
  SPEAKER_02: And I just I just thought that was really cool.
• 1:09:07
  SPEAKER_02: It's it's literally nightmare fuel.
• 1:09:09
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I uh I love this.
• 1:09:11
  SPEAKER_02: This the whole scene's awesome.
• 1:09:13
  SPEAKER_02: So, as you said, so Luke pulls his shirt down to rub yellow configuration of bloody marks on his chest, and he hears Hutch scream from within the house.
• 1:09:23
  SPEAKER_02: So the men are in various forms of distress, like Dom is sobbing in the corner.
• 1:09:28
  SPEAKER_02: Hutch has peed himself, and Phil, well, he's upstairs praying naked to the idol.
• 1:09:37
  SPEAKER_02: So the distraught foresome gear up and they decide to head down a mysterious path.
• 1:09:44
  SPEAKER_02: They do notice, however, the symbols from earlier, which they couldn't see in the dark, are completely surrounding the abode.
• 1:09:53
  SPEAKER_02: And Luke remarks, This is a warning.
• 1:09:57
  SPEAKER_02: But from what?
• 1:09:59
  SPEAKER_00: I think I actually think not only that, I don't think it's so much that they reveal the dark.
• 1:10:03
  SPEAKER_00: I think there was some runes there before.
• 1:10:05
  SPEAKER_00: I think when they woke up, there's freshly carved runes in all the trees that face the house now.
• 1:10:11
  SPEAKER_00: That's what I took from that.
• 1:10:12
  SPEAKER_02: You know what's interesting though?
• 1:10:14
  SPEAKER_02: Like the runes are meant to keep the creature at bay.
• 1:10:20
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, okay.
• 1:10:21
  SPEAKER_00: Or no, are they?
• 1:10:22
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 1:10:23
  SPEAKER_00: I don't think so.
• 1:10:24
  SPEAKER_00: I I don't I don't think so.
• 1:10:26
  SPEAKER_00: I'm I I I I I I thought about the runes a lot in terms of probably my only really unanswered question that I have for myself is that they see the runes, are the runes marking as part of the cult?
• 1:10:42
  SPEAKER_00: Like is this a ritual site?
• 1:10:44
  SPEAKER_00: Because but then like I said, when they wake up, I think those runes that now face the house either were I don't know, maybe they weren't freshly carved, maybe they were there the entire time.
• 1:10:54
  SPEAKER_02: I feel like this was like a protected.
• 1:10:57
  SPEAKER_02: But then I'm wondering, like, are the runes there so that like is it to pay tribute or worship to the day?
• 1:11:05
  SPEAKER_00: I think I think it's that.
• 1:11:06
  SPEAKER_00: I I do think it's that more than because like obviously it doesn't help in protection at all.
• 1:11:11
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that's what I was gonna say.
• 1:11:12
  SPEAKER_02: Like, it doesn't protect anyone.
• 1:11:15
  SPEAKER_02: I want to point out a conversation they have here because it again reveals like more of the character depth and the dynamic.
• 1:11:20
  SPEAKER_02: So Phil wants to know what happened, asking the group if they're gonna talk about it or not.
• 1:11:27
  SPEAKER_02: He says he woke up stark bollocks naked in front of that thing, praying to it.
• 1:11:32
  SPEAKER_02: Hutch says it was a nightmare, we got spooked, and we had bad dreams, all right.
• 1:11:38
  SPEAKER_02: Dom urges them to leave it alone.
• 1:11:41
  SPEAKER_02: But Luke retorts with, What about you, Dom?
• 1:11:44
  SPEAKER_02: You were screaming at the top of your voice, shouting, Gail.
• 1:11:48
  SPEAKER_02: Hutch says, enough of the bullshit ghost stories, okay?
• 1:11:51
  SPEAKER_02: You're starting to sound like my daughters.
• 1:11:54
  SPEAKER_02: And I want to read something from an article that I read.
• 1:11:59
  SPEAKER_02: So, according to author Renee S.
• 1:12:01
  SPEAKER_02: Grozell, early in the film, any sign of genuine emotional distress or physical weakness is immediately met with mocking banter, sarcasm, or aggressive deflection.
• 1:12:15
  SPEAKER_02: And Hutch telling Phil he sounds like a woman when he talks about his feelings, is a sign of misogyny.
• 1:12:28
  SPEAKER_02: And that's what I feel this scene explores.
• 1:12:33
  SPEAKER_02: It's it's Hutch's and Dom's inability to consider that what happened to Phil, which in my opinion was akin to sexual abuse or sexual assault, and Phil is trying to like understand and and cope with this, and their response is let's stop talking about this.
• 1:13:00
  SPEAKER_02: This was nothing.
• 1:13:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, this this comes at a time where I think it's would be the most essential to discuss what happened.
• 1:13:09
  SPEAKER_00: And Phil even shakes his head when they shut it down saying, I never would have done that, like I never would have done that in any.
• 1:13:18
  SPEAKER_00: There's no world where I would have gotten naked in a dream and prayed to this deity.
• 1:13:24
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:13:25
  SPEAKER_00: Can you imagine?
• 1:13:27
  SPEAKER_02: Like, if this happened to someone I knew, we would spend a lot of time unpacking what happened.
• 1:13:36
  SPEAKER_02: Because it's you're out of control.
• 1:13:38
  SPEAKER_02: Like they all blacked out and fell victim to really intense personal hallucinations, one of them ending up naked in front of the idol, and they don't even want they they talk it up to nightmares.
• 1:13:56
  SPEAKER_00: Like, guys, you're you're repressed, dude.
• 1:13:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, this this is for sure.
• 1:14:00
  SPEAKER_00: Like Hutch, what what is you know?
• 1:14:03
  SPEAKER_00: They often ask men what do they fear most, right?
• 1:14:05
  SPEAKER_00: It's being humiliated.
• 1:14:07
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, exactly.
• 1:14:09
  SPEAKER_00: And Hutch is humiliated after being woke up and covered in his piss.
• 1:14:14
  SPEAKER_00: And he does say, like, I woke up covered in piss, I don't want to discuss this.
• 1:14:19
  SPEAKER_00: And I think he's so like stubborn and like refusing to talk about his feelings because he does not want to have to say out loud to his friends that I pissed myself again.
• 1:14:30
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, he can't can't come to terms with it.
• 1:14:33
  SPEAKER_00: And this is like this is just further spelling the group's downfall of ignoring like what I would call harbingers of their demise to save their male egos and their and to save face here.
• 1:14:49
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:14:50
  SPEAKER_02: And that's what I like about like I would say, even Phil, to some degree isn't expressing a lot of pain over the situation.
• 1:15:01
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, he seems almost normal and calm.
• 1:15:05
  SPEAKER_02: I think it is Luke, who in his face and in his core, because of what he saw, definitely recognizes like the impact of what happened.
• 1:15:16
  SPEAKER_02: So he again, like the one with the most pain and the most grief, and the one closest to the feeling is the one that can see it more clearly.
• 1:15:28
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:15:29
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that's really beautiful.
• 1:15:31
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that's what I like about you know the that whole thing.
• 1:15:34
  SPEAKER_02: So okay, so to get back into some logistics here, so Luke decides he'll head to the top of the ridgeline and see if he can't find a way out of here.
• 1:15:43
  SPEAKER_02: So as he approaches the tree line, we get our first glimpse of what appears to be a human hand slowly curling around one of the trees before revealing something very large.
• 1:15:55
  SPEAKER_02: And this is the point that I was telling you about earlier that I was kind of thinking like, is this going to be a situation like the village?
• 1:16:04
  SPEAKER_02: Like where a bunch of lost in time villagers are like pretending there's a creature in the woods?
• 1:16:09
  SPEAKER_02: And I think the hand, yeah, I know, but I think the hand is what threw me off.
• 1:16:15
  SPEAKER_02: It's a human hand.
• 1:16:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I but then with the sound and the size of what we see briefly, I was like, no, it's not what if they had portable speakers, maybe, yeah.
• 1:16:28
  SPEAKER_00: That's why you're not wrong.
• 1:16:29
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, hey, the village did it, whatever.
• 1:16:31
  SPEAKER_00: The village idiots.
• 1:16:33
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:16:37
  SPEAKER_02: So, but this scene was this scene was one where I had to rewind it to really see what he saw because it's very subtle uh and very creepy.
• 1:16:47
  SPEAKER_00: And like I said before, I love this.
• 1:16:48
  SPEAKER_00: I love that the the director and they know like we can build up to showing this creature.
• 1:16:56
  SPEAKER_00: We don't need to see it in all its glory yet.
• 1:16:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, yeah, exactly.
• 1:17:01
  SPEAKER_02: I do think you're right, too.
• 1:17:02
  SPEAKER_02: Like with the sound design, you're hearing the immense size of this thing.
• 1:17:08
  SPEAKER_02: You know what I mean?
• 1:17:09
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I think that's the thing.
• 1:17:09
  SPEAKER_02: Like when I say I thought it was something like the village, I guess this the impact of the sound conveyed the size that no human could actually create.
• 1:17:19
  SPEAKER_02: So obviously I knew it wasn't, but the hand, I mean, you gotta think, like, and we'll talk about creature design a lot later, but like the hand juxtaposed with the size, I was like, what is going on here?
• 1:17:33
  SPEAKER_00: Right?
• 1:17:33
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and I like girl, I love the sound design in the woods here because this is the second time now.
• 1:17:40
  SPEAKER_00: Uh we have post Luke Dream.
• 1:17:43
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and now this, where you you are conveyed, it's conveyed to the audience that something very massive is moving in the woods.
• 1:17:52
  SPEAKER_00: I had a post-luke dream last night.
• 1:18:01
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, so the next scene, in my opinion, really is like this is kind of where at least the group's um dynamic starts starts to heat up.
• 1:18:10
  SPEAKER_02: So this is like a little bit of a side quest.
• 1:18:13
  SPEAKER_02: And more about Luke standing within the group after the situation with Robert.
• 1:18:17
  SPEAKER_02: So he returns down to the group and he says, There's something up there.
• 1:18:21
  SPEAKER_02: I woke up last night and he reveals the markings on his chest.
• 1:18:26
  SPEAKER_02: So Dom, ever the denier, chalks this up to Luke doing this to himself, and he says he doesn't value Luke's judgment.
• 1:18:35
  SPEAKER_02: Oh fuck Dom, man.
• 1:18:37
  SPEAKER_02: It's revealed Dom does blame Luke for Robert's death, that he had no fight when it came to Rob, that he can't stand up for them.
• 1:18:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and this yeah.
• 1:18:50
  SPEAKER_00: I'll just say this too.
• 1:18:51
  SPEAKER_00: Like, not only that, but like Dom calls under his kind of subtly calls Luke a coward, and which causes uh Luke to ends up punching Dom.
• 1:19:02
  SPEAKER_00: But I I actually like the way like you've changed the way I'm viewing this now.
• 1:19:10
  SPEAKER_00: Is that this is a hundred percent like an ignorant man's view on how a situation like that should play out.
• 1:19:20
  SPEAKER_00: Like, this is someone who has no concept of what the body does in a immediately perilous death on the line situation of fight or flo flight or freeze.
• 1:19:32
  SPEAKER_00: And I'll just briefly go on this topic here.
• 1:19:35
  SPEAKER_00: There's a lot of times when um trigger warning here, but I'm gonna bring up sexual assault briefly.
• 1:19:42
  SPEAKER_00: But um, and a lot of times when people discuss sexual assault and and the victims of it, they'll say, like, why didn't they fight back?
• 1:19:49
  SPEAKER_00: Why didn't you scratch the face up?
• 1:19:51
  SPEAKER_00: Why didn't you grab any nearby object?
• 1:19:53
  SPEAKER_00: And you know what I mean?
• 1:19:54
  SPEAKER_00: But I said this earlier, I said this earlier in the in the in the robbery scene.
• 1:19:59
  SPEAKER_00: There's fight or flight, which we're taught as, but there's a third thing the body will do, and that's freeze.
• 1:20:05
  SPEAKER_00: Because this part of your brain, when you undercome a situation like this, where it's just screams at all your muscles and your neurons to to survive, do anything you can to survive.
• 1:20:18
  SPEAKER_00: And for a lot of people, just through autonomy, like your body taking over, is that means if I don't move, if I stay in this, you know, hidden in the case of the robbery, I'll be fine, like I'll survive.
• 1:20:35
  SPEAKER_00: And the last thing the brain is trying to do is say, actually, put yourself in danger to save anyone else but yourself.
• 1:20:44
  SPEAKER_00: And so this is clear, like Dom, that's all a long-winded way to say, like, Dom has zero understanding of that concept, and he thinks, and I guarantee you, Dom would have been fucking pissing himself hiding the colour.
• 1:20:54
  SPEAKER_00: That's what I mean.
• 1:20:54
  SPEAKER_02: This is also what I wanted to talk about about like I hate to always bring up the term misogyny here, but for him to think I would be superior to you in that life or death situation is completely unempathetic and misguided.
• 1:21:12
  SPEAKER_02: And unfair.
• 1:21:13
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, like it's fuck you, Dom.
• 1:21:15
  SPEAKER_02: No, you wouldn't.
• 1:21:16
  SPEAKER_02: You're like a fat fuck.
• 1:21:18
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, he's such a shithead here.
• 1:21:19
  SPEAKER_00: And no, no, it's it brings it out to you like Dom's attitudes, like from his knee injury onward, his attitude is like he is an anchor on this group in the literal sense uh of literally slowing the group down, and also a psychological sense.
• 1:21:39
  SPEAKER_00: And the biggest shame here is Hutch tries to keep the peace, but even when confronted by Luke's words, like what do you think?
• 1:21:46
  SPEAKER_00: He can't he can't say if he thinks he's at fault for Rob's death or not, which plays in that line earlier of I don't care what anyone says.
• 1:21:53
  SPEAKER_00: So Hutch, the same thing, like it just why not have discussed this before, like with like apparently Hutch and Luke seem like they're good friends, and but Hutch still blames Luke.
• 1:22:06
  SPEAKER_02: That's what I was saying earlier, about how like this journey of them being together 24-7, you're starting to see cracks in the shell of what they want to present one another.
• 1:22:17
  SPEAKER_02: And that's why Hutch says he doesn't know if it was Luke's fault or not.
• 1:22:23
  SPEAKER_00: And this is the thing too, like, this is a whole, I mean, you can do there's entire psych like therapist podcasts and books written about this.
• 1:22:32
  SPEAKER_00: This is one of them.
• 1:22:33
  SPEAKER_00: I won't, and I won't and I won't I won't go onto this too further, but you're absolutely you know you don't have to believe that's the case.
• 1:22:38
  SPEAKER_00: I know you don't have to believe that's the case, but that is the case.
• 1:22:41
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I think again, I'll just go on a little tangent here, but when we we talk about the patriarchy or misogyny, I think the patriarchy is also the enemy of man too.
• 1:22:52
  SPEAKER_00: And 100%, and there's people like there's people that don't realize that because you have men like Dom and Hutch in this group set up to fail based on years and years of just like cultural and you know societal like practice saying that you're supposed to be strong, you don't talk about your feelings, that kind of thing.
• 1:23:20
  SPEAKER_00: And that's why it it is the enemy of man, because if if they had just been taught that it's okay to talk about these things, maybe this group would have fared a little better.
• 1:23:29
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 1:23:30
  SPEAKER_02: There is nothing more like masculine and attractive to me than someone who is open with me and lets me inside.
• 1:23:41
  SPEAKER_02: Not literally, just you know, figuring out.
• 1:23:44
  SPEAKER_02: Or literally, but I knew I knew you're gonna add that.
• 1:23:46
  SPEAKER_02: I knew I was like, he's gonna say something, you know, not literally.
• 1:23:59
  SPEAKER_02: I am gay and Andrew is straight.
• 1:24:02
  SPEAKER_02: So just to give the audience a little uh inside look, that I'm being very critical of Andrew right now and his and his people.
• 1:24:11
  SPEAKER_02: Jesus, dude.
• 1:24:12
  SPEAKER_02: They're just my people.
• 1:24:17
  SPEAKER_02: So as the tension of being lost like mounts, the group's bond is obviously stressed.
• 1:24:22
  SPEAKER_02: So as they believe Luke is at least partially responsible for Robert's death, this is the pain that Luke carries inside him every day.
• 1:24:33
  SPEAKER_02: And I think they do a wonderful job of bringing that to light.
• 1:24:39
  SPEAKER_02: So as Luke prepares for sleep, he hears rustling and faint growls outside his tent.
• 1:24:47
  SPEAKER_02: When he moves in to explore, he's again thrust into the horrific events of the convenience store.
• 1:24:54
  SPEAKER_02: This time, a scene of Robert being bludgeoned to death.
• 1:24:57
  SPEAKER_02: In this dream sequence, Hutch's tent is launched into the air and Luke wakes screaming.
• 1:25:05
  SPEAKER_02: The men see Hutch's tent has been ravaged by the creature, and Phil screams that it just took him.
• 1:25:14
  SPEAKER_02: After some light searching, the men realize it's safer to stay put at the campsite and search by daylight.
• 1:25:21
  SPEAKER_02: And I thought this was interesting because this at the house, the creature did an initial scan.
• 1:25:28
  SPEAKER_02: At this point, it did a scan, but definitely focused in on a particular character and decided to off him to pluck him away.
• 1:25:42
  SPEAKER_00: I think whenever this creature, when it perused their nightmares, uh Hutch was found too basic and and not like too happy, yeah.
• 1:25:54
  SPEAKER_00: I guess yeah, I honestly think not doesn't have what the creature wants out of him, so he's like, he's he's out.
• 1:26:00
  SPEAKER_02: You know what I don't understand?
• 1:26:03
  SPEAKER_02: I'm just gonna quickly say so.
• 1:26:05
  SPEAKER_02: We we cut to the next morning where the men stumble upon another strung up body in the forest trees, Hutch's body, gutted, just like the deer.
• 1:26:15
  SPEAKER_02: And Phil posits the thing from the house, followed them there, and did that to Hutch.
• 1:26:21
  SPEAKER_02: So, what I want to say, however, is why does it mutilate the things it doesn't covet?
• 1:26:35
  SPEAKER_00: I this creature, and I'm gonna talk about this later in the end scene.
• 1:26:38
  SPEAKER_00: This creature is not some all-knowing uh cosmic god that I think you might think it is.
• 1:26:48
  SPEAKER_00: I think this creature has I this is gonna sound funny.
• 1:26:53
  SPEAKER_00: I think this creature is insecure, and this I don't listen, but like I'll get there in the ending.
• 1:27:00
  SPEAKER_00: I think I can bring this home later.
• 1:27:02
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe insecure is the wrong word, but this creature has an insatiable need to be worshipped, and when he kills those unworthy, he still poses them in a position of worship because they're posed as like the effigy, like they're and we see why they're posed that way, but when we see the creature's head, they're all posed similar to what the creature's face looks like.
• 1:27:28
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, that's really interesting.
• 1:27:30
  SPEAKER_02: I did not with the arms up and the uh the effigy is the same thing, it's it's it's in the likeness of the god, it's not which is not a real god, but he But wait, isn't it strange then that it takes the I'm gonna I'm gonna hold this because it does something different with the people that it sacrifices.
• 1:27:53
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 1:27:54
  SPEAKER_02: So maybe we can talk about why that is at that time.
• 1:27:57
  SPEAKER_02: But yeah, you bring up a really interesting point.
• 1:28:00
  SPEAKER_02: Uh that I hadn't considered.
• 1:28:03
  SPEAKER_02: So after some shock and screams, uh the men decide to bury his body and proceed down the forest path.
• 1:28:10
  SPEAKER_02: They confirm when they escape that they'll send someone to come back in and get him.
• 1:28:16
  SPEAKER_02: So at this point, Phil and Dom are just worse for wear.
• 1:28:21
  SPEAKER_02: Like Phil's feet are sore, and Dom's injury has gotten worse.
• 1:28:27
  SPEAKER_02: So Luke peering out among the tree line seems hopeful at what he sees, but he also sees burning embers in the distance that cause curiosity.
• 1:28:41
  SPEAKER_02: And as he returns to Dom and Phil, Phil says he can hear something rustling in the woods and immediately is pulled in by a roaring creature.
• 1:28:52
  SPEAKER_02: And suddenly, like before, Luke is thrust back into the nightmare.
• 1:28:57
  SPEAKER_02: This time heading out into the city street.
• 1:29:01
  SPEAKER_02: And Luke snaps out of it and realizes both his mates are missing.
• 1:29:06
  SPEAKER_02: And as he continues to search frantically, he notices Dom tucked away in the trees.
• 1:29:11
  SPEAKER_02: And Dom whispers to Luke it's fast and that he doesn't want to die.
• 1:29:17
  SPEAKER_02: Luke, huddling with Dom, hatches a plan for him and Dom to run on three.
• 1:29:24
  SPEAKER_02: But before they can get too far, another ominous rustling occurs behind them, and out emerges the giant deer-like monster.
• 1:29:34
  SPEAKER_02: The two struggle to regain their footing, and just before escaping down a lighted path, notice Phil's body strung up in the trees, gutted like the deer.
• 1:29:46
  SPEAKER_02: So not only has Phil died, but we're seeing signs of civilization.
• 1:29:51
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, right?
• 1:29:52
  SPEAKER_00: We're seeing the light in the world.
• 1:29:55
  SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
• 1:29:56
  SPEAKER_02: And so I wonder this is where I was wondering, like, if the human because I started to go like, okay, obviously humans are involved now.
• 1:30:07
  SPEAKER_02: Whereas before I thought this was going to be like a creature feature, but they're literally running into some sort of civilization.
• 1:30:16
  SPEAKER_02: And this is where I started to really wonder, and I know I keep bringing this up, but parallels to the village because I kept thinking, like, are there the people are responsible for this?
• 1:30:28
  SPEAKER_02: That's what I was thinking immediately during this scene.
• 1:30:31
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I never had that thought simply because of the way that these the feats of the creature already would not make any sense if there were humans doing it.
• 1:30:42
  SPEAKER_00: So for me.
• 1:30:43
  SPEAKER_02: But they certainly make it.
• 1:30:45
  SPEAKER_02: I guess they I mean we've seen the creature, but so obviously I guess not.
• 1:30:49
  SPEAKER_00: But perhaps it's just a man in a cloak.
• 1:30:53
  SPEAKER_00: Could be, it could be like three or four men standing on top of each other.
• 1:30:56
  SPEAKER_00: That's how tall this thing is.
• 1:30:58
  SPEAKER_00: I love this.
• 1:30:59
  SPEAKER_00: I can't wait to talk about it.
• 1:31:00
  SPEAKER_00: I love this creature.
• 1:31:02
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, so let's so the two continue down the path and they emerge through a doorway where we are treated to some lovely Swedish folk music.
• 1:31:10
  SPEAKER_02: Luke notices a dark figure looming within the room before being kicked unconscious.
• 1:31:16
  SPEAKER_02: So enter humans.
• 1:31:19
  SPEAKER_02: So the two awake imprisoned in the basement of a wooden dwelling.
• 1:31:24
  SPEAKER_02: In what appears to be a space lost in time, an elderly woman enters the basement.
• 1:31:30
  SPEAKER_02: She provides interestingly water to Luke, but refuses water to Dom.
• 1:31:38
  SPEAKER_02: She reveals the exact same wounds as Luke, the markings on her chest.
• 1:31:45
  SPEAKER_02: And I started to wonder if the creature had attempted to take Luke and decided for some reason not to.
• 1:31:54
  SPEAKER_00: No, because at this point, we now it can it confirms for me that Luke was marked in one way or another to for some reason to not be killed by this creature.
• 1:32:08
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, and that he basically, for whatever reason, shares the same quality as this woman.
• 1:32:17
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:32:18
  SPEAKER_02: And so just to note here that they are in a full settlement.
• 1:32:24
  SPEAKER_02: There are details that I have omitted, hoping that you've, of course, seen the film.
• 1:32:30
  SPEAKER_02: But they are in a rustic village that appears to be lost in time, despite the fact that we know this is modern day.
• 1:32:40
  SPEAKER_02: I also found that quite interesting.
• 1:32:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's like it's very much like medieval, like a medieval log village.
• 1:32:48
  SPEAKER_02: Like you might say from the movie The Village.
• 1:32:52
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:32:52
  SPEAKER_00: That's fair.
• 1:32:53
  SPEAKER_00: Like an 1800s, seven, I mean not in medieval, but like you know, 1800s, 1700s style cabins.
• 1:33:01
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:33:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:33:02
  SPEAKER_02: But how have these people not been discovered?
• 1:33:06
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I have theories.
• 1:33:11
  SPEAKER_00: Like I said, I I'll say this again.
• 1:33:14
  SPEAKER_00: I think this creature does not allow them to be discovered.
• 1:33:20
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, that's true.
• 1:33:21
  SPEAKER_02: Uh yeah.
• 1:33:22
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, that's a really, really, really good point because there is mysticism surrounding the creature, which is why the compass didn't work in the forest.
• 1:33:32
  SPEAKER_00: So we're gonna talk this later.
• 1:33:33
  SPEAKER_00: It's like when Luke escapes the forest, you're telling me it was within sprinting distance, the settlement to the edge of the forest.
• 1:33:39
  SPEAKER_00: There's no way.
• 1:33:41
  SPEAKER_02: Alright.
• 1:33:42
  SPEAKER_02: So the woman, accompanied by two gentlemen from the film cabin in the woods, they do decide.
• 1:33:51
  SPEAKER_00: You're being funnier, but like guys like seriously, they look like hillbillies, like Nordic hillabillies.
• 1:33:57
  SPEAKER_02: Well, we might have a hillbilly audience, Andrew.
• 1:33:59
  SPEAKER_02: You can't just beat against the window.
• 1:34:01
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, sorry.
• 1:34:02
  SPEAKER_00: I'll say we're gonna cover wrong turn eventually, though.
• 1:34:06
  SPEAKER_00: Nordic uh, like uh evil-looking hillbillies.
• 1:34:11
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, if they're DTF.
• 1:34:14
  SPEAKER_00: Oh god.
• 1:34:16
  SPEAKER_02: Jesus.
• 1:34:17
  SPEAKER_02: It's so funny because I'm portraying all the terrible stereotypes of a gay man.
• 1:34:24
  SPEAKER_02: But at least I'm doing it.
• 1:34:26
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:34:27
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 1:34:28
  SPEAKER_02: So they decide they're gonna take Dom upstairs and literally beat him half to death.
• 1:34:37
  SPEAKER_02: But I want to call your attention to something very important.
• 1:34:40
  SPEAKER_02: As this happens, it's important to note we as the audience can hear moaning and screeching from above, but perhaps these sounds aren't exactly like the creature from the woods.
• 1:34:54
  SPEAKER_02: They're markedly different.
• 1:34:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, they're otherworldly, but they're very different from the creature.
• 1:35:01
  SPEAKER_02: But weren't you at that point, like, weren't you wondering what that was?
• 1:35:06
  SPEAKER_00: I was so I was like, is there like is the creature does it have a brood?
• 1:35:11
  SPEAKER_00: Does it have like uh is there some other demonic entity at play here in the house?
• 1:35:18
  SPEAKER_00: Like I was I was so curious about this.
• 1:35:20
  SPEAKER_02: I was so confused because they make it very clear that it's not human.
• 1:35:25
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, but later we can discuss whether it's human or not.
• 1:35:28
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 1:35:29
  SPEAKER_02: While Dom appears to be tortured from above, Luke is visited by a younger woman, and she warns Luke to be prepared for the sacrifice.
• 1:35:40
  SPEAKER_02: So we cut to awaken Luke the next morning.
• 1:35:44
  SPEAKER_02: Dom is returned to the dwelling.
• 1:35:45
  SPEAKER_02: I thought Dom was toast, but he is returned to the dwelling and he tells Luke he had a nightmare of these people offering him to that thing.
• 1:35:54
  SPEAKER_02: It's dead hands gripping me, and I saw Gail, my wife.
• 1:35:59
  SPEAKER_02: So while Luke is go ahead, yeah.
• 1:36:03
  SPEAKER_00: So this is really interesting because while Luke in the cabin uh earlier is brought to the past in his nightmares, and maybe some of the rest were Dom in that hut has a nightmare about events that haven't transpired yet.
• 1:36:24
  SPEAKER_00: And then Dom now reveals here, you know, when I was having my nightmare, it was being offered to that thing, and I was screaming for Gail.
• 1:36:33
  SPEAKER_02: So I I did want to call attention to one thing, though.
• 1:36:36
  SPEAKER_02: Like the woman says that they're like preparing for the sacrifice.
• 1:36:41
  SPEAKER_02: So were they trying to beat Dom to determine whether he was sacrifice material?
• 1:36:52
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I really didn't understand why they brought him upstairs in the first place.
• 1:36:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I'm not I'm not really sure, other than like to make sure he was compliant the whole time, like basically injured and wounded, that he would never fight back while being strung up.
• 1:37:07
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but yeah, you're right.
• 1:37:08
  SPEAKER_00: I don't really know exactly what the point of bringing him to a separate room to beat him and then to bring him down.
• 1:37:13
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 1:37:14
  SPEAKER_02: Alright, so as night opens wide, Dom is dragged to a structure overlooking the tree line.
• 1:37:20
  SPEAKER_02: The scene is so beautiful in so many ways.
• 1:37:23
  SPEAKER_00: There's so many good shots of the scenery in this film.
• 1:37:26
  SPEAKER_00: I love it.
• 1:37:26
  SPEAKER_02: It's yeah, it's it's unreal.
• 1:37:28
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:37:28
  SPEAKER_02: So as he as he peers out, he notices a various, like various dark figures pinned to the trees throughout the forest opening.
• 1:37:37
  SPEAKER_02: At first, I thought these were dolls or idols, but these are actual past human sacrifices.
• 1:37:45
  SPEAKER_02: Yep.
• 1:37:45
  SPEAKER_02: And just as he calls, what are you waiting for?
• 1:37:51
  SPEAKER_02: The trees part, and it isn't the creature, although it has all of the trappings of the creature, the sound, the movement.
• 1:38:00
  SPEAKER_02: What emerges from the forest is his wife Gail.
• 1:38:05
  SPEAKER_02: And she approaches him calmly, caressing his face.
• 1:38:09
  SPEAKER_00: I fucking love this scene.
• 1:38:10
  SPEAKER_02: I mean so beautiful, but it isn't Gail.
• 1:38:15
  SPEAKER_02: The touching hands are those of the monster.
• 1:38:18
  SPEAKER_02: Dead hands surround his face before lifting him from the structure and pulling him into the forest.
• 1:38:25
  SPEAKER_02: So Dom was sacrificed, but we don't see the creature pull open his chest and gut him like a deer.
• 1:38:33
  SPEAKER_02: We see him pinned to a tree.
• 1:38:37
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and we also get the first look, a close-up of this creature's eyes, and holy shit, it's just so cool.
• 1:38:46
  SPEAKER_00: I have a question.
• 1:38:49
  SPEAKER_02: Did it present Gail?
• 1:38:51
  SPEAKER_02: And this is something I wanted to ask much earlier, but I think this is appropriate.
• 1:38:55
  SPEAKER_02: Did it present Gail because it wants to pacify him?
• 1:39:02
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I think is it like, you know what I mean?
• 1:39:05
  SPEAKER_00: Like this thing's keep clearly capable of projecting hallucinations and illusions and like into your mind.
• 1:39:12
  SPEAKER_00: And I think this was maybe to keep him at peace up until the very end.
• 1:39:17
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, because some predators will actually poison you with hallucination, with a sedative, so that the prey is relaxed and then they will eat it.
• 1:39:30
  SPEAKER_02: And that's kind of what I got from this in a very, very different way.
• 1:39:33
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's some something like that.
• 1:39:35
  SPEAKER_00: And two, I think when it when this thing pins the reason why like these people aren't just ripped apart on the spot, I think they're also in some perverted way forced to worship by being pinned up and looking inward at the settlement.
• 1:39:54
  SPEAKER_00: They're sort of sort of being forced to be effigies or worshipers of this god even in death, which is why the other remnants that are up there are also all facing inward towards the settlement.
• 1:40:07
  SPEAKER_02: It's interesting too because they probably don't get a lot of outsiders, right?
• 1:40:11
  SPEAKER_02: So the ones that I think have previously been sacrificed are willing and necessary to keep the settlement alive and growing.
• 1:40:20
  SPEAKER_02: Whereas like Dom is not one of those, but treated just the same.
• 1:40:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think, and we'll see, we'll get a little scene here um in a few minutes about just maybe how many former captives there have been.
• 1:40:39
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, okay.
• 1:40:40
  SPEAKER_02: So Luke asks the younger woman, who I'm assuming kind of wants to take him as a mate, maybe.
• 1:40:47
  SPEAKER_02: She says, We don't move the bodies, and describes the creature as a god, an ancient, a bastard offspring of Loki.
• 1:40:56
  SPEAKER_02: She goes on to say that we worship it, it keeps us here.
• 1:41:00
  SPEAKER_02: We live beyond natural life, no more pain and no more death.
• 1:41:05
  SPEAKER_02: She explains to Luke that if he kneels before the god, T2 can live beyond natural life.
• 1:41:12
  SPEAKER_02: And she mentions something I found really interesting.
• 1:41:16
  SPEAKER_02: He asks her why, and she says, because your pain is great.
• 1:41:22
  SPEAKER_02: And this is where I want to bring in some research.
• 1:41:25
  SPEAKER_02: So, according to author Destiny King, the Yotun, which is the name of the creature, targets individuals harboring immense emotional pain.
• 1:41:36
  SPEAKER_02: Culturally, the ancient human worshippers in the village have traded their autonomy for freedom from grief and physical decay.
• 1:41:44
  SPEAKER_02: Symbolically, submitting to the Yotun represents a psychological surrender to one's trauma.
• 1:41:49
  SPEAKER_02: Luke possesses a massive reservoir of unresolved guilt.
• 1:41:54
  SPEAKER_02: And by manifesting his trauma through hallucinations, the creature marks Luke as a candidate for immortality.
• 1:42:02
  SPEAKER_02: So little do these freaky fuckers know, but Luke has managed to free himself of his restraints, and he ascends a stairwell in the house, inching closer to the screeching chants from earlier when Dom was being tortured.
• 1:42:17
  SPEAKER_00: I do think this is a scene worth talking about really quick.
• 1:42:21
  SPEAKER_00: Is on his way up there, he opens up a side door to see dozens of camping supplies and remnants of what are probably past hikers.
• 1:42:34
  SPEAKER_01: I miss that.
• 1:42:36
  SPEAKER_00: Wow.
• 1:42:36
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 1:42:37
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, he opens up a door and it's almost like an armory, too.
• 1:42:41
  SPEAKER_00: There's a bunch of old-style guns there, including a German World War II rifle, which he ends up taking up.
• 1:42:49
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and you see all these can't sleeping bags and camping packs all tied up against the wall, which is like basically saying, like, oh, uh, this is this has happened before to other hikers.
• 1:43:01
  SPEAKER_02: Jesus, the Swedish Forest, eh?
• 1:43:04
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that's interesting.
• 1:43:06
  SPEAKER_02: That that that I find really, really cool.
• 1:43:08
  SPEAKER_02: So the sacrifices quite arguably were not members of the settlement.
• 1:43:15
  SPEAKER_00: No, yeah, I would say that there are a bunch that were unfortunate hikers that were in that area.
• 1:43:21
  unknown: Wow.
• 1:43:22
  SPEAKER_00: I think one way, one way or another, we're lured into the woods.
• 1:43:27
  SPEAKER_00: Wow, yeah, nice point.
• 1:43:29
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 1:43:30
  SPEAKER_02: So he does open another door.
• 1:43:33
  SPEAKER_02: And to me, Andrew, this is the coolest scene in the entire film.
• 1:43:40
  SPEAKER_02: But I have zero clue what I was seeing.
• 1:43:42
  SPEAKER_02: So Luke pushes past a doorway and the chanting stops suddenly.
• 1:43:48
  SPEAKER_02: He sees what appeared to be dead mummified figures.
• 1:43:52
  SPEAKER_02: As he investigates, one of the figures lets out a raspy and Luke does exactly what I would have done, and he sets these creatures ablaze.
• 1:44:04
  SPEAKER_02: But what are these creatures?
• 1:44:09
  SPEAKER_00: So we see them sitting almost like it's a small little church in that house, right?
• 1:44:16
  SPEAKER_00: There is an effigy, or there's another undead looking creature at the very front.
• 1:44:22
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I think this is what happens to you in the very late stages of your own life in this settlement.
• 1:44:31
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, agree.
• 1:44:32
  SPEAKER_00: I I think these people are still technically alive and being kept that have been kept alive by the Jotun.
• 1:44:39
  SPEAKER_00: But this is like a hundred, two hundred years in, where you your body is withered away due to aging, but you are kept alive by this deal, this unsaid deal of unlife provided by the Jotun.
• 1:44:56
  SPEAKER_00: Still there to worship.
• 1:44:58
  SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
• 1:44:59
  SPEAKER_02: I almost look at them like lower tier food.
• 1:45:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, like they're like the snacks you don't want to eat.
• 1:45:06
  SPEAKER_00: They're still there to provide him worship and to feed him ethereally, but they are in the very late stages of their own life, obviously.
• 1:45:17
  SPEAKER_00: I just thought that I thought this was such a creepy scene, really unexpected and unexpected, too.
• 1:45:22
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah, like so unexpected, but also just so necessary.
• 1:45:26
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:45:27
  SPEAKER_02: And then I thought, like, wow, this movie is like it's clever, but I really thought this movie was clever at this point.
• 1:45:34
  SPEAKER_02: I thought I want to see an entire film on these mummified creatures, like that was fucking awesome.
• 1:45:42
  SPEAKER_00: It's just hauntingly creepy.
• 1:45:45
  SPEAKER_00: This scene, it's so good.
• 1:45:47
  SPEAKER_02: So, Andrew, we take a little comedic break here because before, yeah, it's kind of hilarious.
• 1:45:55
  SPEAKER_02: So, yeah, before attempting another escape, he happens upon the old woman from earlier who stares at him blankly like before, because she just stares at him.
• 1:46:04
  SPEAKER_02: She doesn't speak, she doesn't emote, so he just casually punches her out and she falls onto the floor.
• 1:46:13
  SPEAKER_00: I this is a great uh I don't I think this is a well-placed comedic moment that doesn't underplay or undermine anything that happens here.
• 1:46:23
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's just a great little take a breath for a second before this, the finale.
• 1:46:28
  SPEAKER_02: Outside the Burning Abode, the monster emerges once again from the forest, snarling in an ancient language.
• 1:46:36
  SPEAKER_02: And as one of the worshippers begins to frightfully whisper something to it, it greedily snatches her up.
• 1:46:44
  SPEAKER_02: Luke escapes the home, and as he turns back, a shotgun in tow, which you mentioned earlier, finally sees.
• 1:46:56
  SPEAKER_02: Sorry.
• 1:46:57
  SPEAKER_02: Finally, he finally sees like the creature in all its glory, a tall, deer-like figure with human hands as tusks, holding the woman above the burning embers.
• 1:47:10
  SPEAKER_02: And I want to talk a second about the design.
• 1:47:15
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, this creature design is magnificent.
• 1:47:20
  SPEAKER_00: It's bizarre, right?
• 1:47:22
  SPEAKER_00: We have so this almost a deer-like, I would say moose-like, just based on the size, but either way, you know, you get the picture.
• 1:47:32
  SPEAKER_00: That style of body, you have exposed bony spine that runs along its spine up into its head, and its head is almost its face and its head are two human torsos melded at the center where the abs would meet, right at the waistline, with two a decapitated body on the top half of the head with the two arms of the human body as literally melded into antlers.
• 1:48:05
  SPEAKER_02: Yet in a silhouette form, it looks like a deer with antlers.
• 1:48:11
  SPEAKER_02: So good.
• 1:48:11
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's very, very clever and fucking weird.
• 1:48:16
  SPEAKER_02: So, so to achieve the creature design, Bruckner hired renowned concept artist Keith Thompson, famous for his extensive creature design work with Guillermo Del Toro on film.
• 1:48:27
  SPEAKER_02: That makes so much sense, right?
• 1:48:29
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, exactly.
• 1:48:29
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, exactly.
• 1:48:30
  SPEAKER_02: Like Pacific Rim, Crimson Peak, and the Strain.
• 1:48:35
  SPEAKER_02: So in Neville's book, the beast is described as heavily goat-like.
• 1:48:40
  SPEAKER_02: Thompson and Bruckner threw that out.
• 1:48:42
  SPEAKER_02: Instead, looking at North Mythos to create an unfathomable god.
• 1:48:47
  SPEAKER_02: In traditional Norse mythology, the Jotunar are often translated into English as giants or trolls, but they're actually a race of ancient nature-evoking deities that predated the Asgarian gods, like Thor or Odin.
• 1:49:02
  SPEAKER_02: They represent primal chaos, wild nature, and destruction.
• 1:49:08
  SPEAKER_02: By defining the monster as a Jotun, the film establishes that the characters are dealing with an elemental, untamed force that exists completely outside of human morality.
• 1:49:20
  SPEAKER_02: And so earlier, when you were mentioning its insecurity, you hit the nail on the head, but I wanted to save it, because it is completely fueled by erratic emotion.
• 1:49:36
  SPEAKER_00: That's so cool.
• 1:49:37
  SPEAKER_00: And like the the I I almost want to go to a tangent about Jotun and Jotunheim and all that stuff, but I will not.
• 1:49:46
  SPEAKER_00: But that it is really, really cool.
• 1:49:48
  SPEAKER_00: And one reason why I love like Greek mythology stories and I love Norse mythology stories is that the gods and the Jotun in Norse mythology.
• 1:50:00
  SPEAKER_00: They're not presented as like these all-knowing otherworldly beings.
• 1:50:05
  SPEAKER_00: They're so humanly flawed in the way they behave, and they're angry, they're upset, they get they they do irrational actions based on emotion.
• 1:50:19
  SPEAKER_00: It's just it's really, really cool that the that this creature is part of that.
• 1:50:24
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and you kind of see it now that you're you know you look back on the film, and it's like it is very elemental and it is very chaotic, and it seems to have this like unfathomable, like unquenching desire to eat.
• 1:50:43
  SPEAKER_02: That's what I'm trying to say.
• 1:50:44
  SPEAKER_02: Like I just it's just it's it's like so when you're that driven by hunger, that's very primal, is what I'm trying to say.
• 1:50:54
  SPEAKER_00: It's just so cool too.
• 1:50:56
  SPEAKER_00: Like an eldritch monstrosity merging an ethereal man-like thing with a goat moose-like creature, it's just really cool.
• 1:51:07
  SPEAKER_00: Do you think this could still be a man in a hood?
• 1:51:12
  SPEAKER_00: I'm I know.
• 1:51:15
  SPEAKER_00: No one's just don't even it's just stop.
• 1:51:20
  SPEAKER_00: Could this be like a contraption mechanized?
• 1:51:24
  SPEAKER_00: Short kids on the top hat.
• 1:51:26
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:51:29
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, the on the iconic design.
• 1:51:31
  SPEAKER_02: So they landed on the iconic design, an elk-like body frame, but where the head should be, there's a hollow, human-like torso with arms that interact with the trees.
• 1:51:42
  SPEAKER_02: An elk is a massive, majestic, and inherently associated with deep northern wilderness, making it a perfect evolutionary disguise for a forest deity camouflage.
• 1:51:55
  SPEAKER_02: And when it comes to practical effects, I didn't know this and I thought this was really cool.
• 1:51:59
  SPEAKER_02: For close-up interactions with the actors, special effects coordinator Russell FX built a full-scale practical version of the creature's upper section.
• 1:52:09
  SPEAKER_02: A stunt performer was buckled inside, wearing extended prosthetic sleeves to operate the human-like arms.
• 1:52:17
  SPEAKER_02: That's so good.
• 1:52:18
  SPEAKER_02: In post-production, the visual effects team digitally painted out the performer's actual head and seamlessly attached the digital elk-like lower body, creating a creature that moved with organic weight.
• 1:52:30
  SPEAKER_02: So truly like a mix of CGI and the city.
• 1:52:33
  SPEAKER_02: And that's the best way to do that, right?
• 1:52:34
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, a hundred a hundred percent agreed.
• 1:52:37
  SPEAKER_02: Because when the creature is holding Dom's face, to see that being a practical effect is very cool.
• 1:52:46
  SPEAKER_02: That's wonderful.
• 1:52:48
  SPEAKER_02: So looking back at the creature, uh, Luke takes aim and unleashes a bullet.
• 1:52:54
  SPEAKER_02: But this only serves to piss off the ancient god, and it begins to chase him through the forest.
• 1:53:01
  SPEAKER_02: Now, this I found really interesting.
• 1:53:04
  SPEAKER_02: Luke is submerged into his final dream sequence.
• 1:53:09
  SPEAKER_02: This time the convenience store is a lighted hallway.
• 1:53:14
  SPEAKER_02: And Luke has one final confrontation with the creature, and it stands before him in a prayer position, almost bug-like in appearance.
• 1:53:26
  SPEAKER_02: And I wanted to know for a second from you is there any part of you that got a sci-fi element from this creature?
• 1:53:38
  SPEAKER_02: No, perhaps it's not a god, perhaps it's an alien.
• 1:53:43
  SPEAKER_00: No, I I didn't, I know what you're saying here, but this is I think this is very much like so.
• 1:53:51
  SPEAKER_00: Let's think about what Luke has done.
• 1:53:53
  SPEAKER_00: Luke has burned the settlement down.
• 1:53:58
  SPEAKER_00: The last of the worships that we know of are being killed by Luke or the creature.
• 1:54:03
  SPEAKER_00: And so I think this is the creature trying to start over with a fresh worshiper.
• 1:54:09
  SPEAKER_00: I think with the creature's doing.
• 1:54:10
  SPEAKER_00: I totally do.
• 1:54:11
  SPEAKER_02: I think it's it's trying to it its whole food source is gone.
• 1:54:18
  SPEAKER_02: Although it killed off some settlers.
• 1:54:23
  SPEAKER_00: I that's because it's you said it earlier.
• 1:54:26
  SPEAKER_00: You said it earlier, Frank.
• 1:54:27
  SPEAKER_00: This thing is not, it is irrational and chaotic.
• 1:54:31
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:54:31
  SPEAKER_00: So I think it knows that the it knows the woman helped sow the seeds of escape for Luke.
• 1:54:41
  SPEAKER_00: And that's why when it kills her, it kills her and it rips her eyes out.
• 1:54:45
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and she her body's dropped at its feet.
• 1:54:49
  SPEAKER_00: And this is where the creature's, I think the creature is trying to show Luke, like, get down on your knees, and this is how I want you to worship me.
• 1:54:57
  SPEAKER_00: And it poses for him to say, yeah, like on your knees, get in like the position of worship.
• 1:55:04
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but Luke doesn't do that.
• 1:55:09
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:55:11
  SPEAKER_02: I I can't help but bring it back to the choices that they made when the creature is in prayer position.
• 1:55:21
  SPEAKER_02: The way that it looks like a centipede.
• 1:55:25
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's otherworldly.
• 1:55:27
  SPEAKER_02: But that that to me is a little odd because it started to blur my perception of what this creature is.
• 1:55:38
  SPEAKER_02: Like it's been explained to us what it is, but is it?
• 1:55:43
  SPEAKER_02: And I don't know.
• 1:55:44
  SPEAKER_02: I I don't know.
• 1:55:45
  SPEAKER_02: Like I'm left with I don't know.
• 1:55:49
  SPEAKER_02: And I love that I don't know.
• 1:55:51
  SPEAKER_02: But yeah, I also didn't really get the like you just shed some light on the fact that it's telling him how it wants to be worshipped, yeah.
• 1:56:01
  SPEAKER_00: Which I think is really cool.
• 1:56:03
  SPEAKER_00: I I I think it's awesome, and I I think this is where maybe a lesser or someone who's a little weaker would have maybe succumbed to it and started and bought its bargain because Luke stands up and it pushes him down, it even grabs with one of its hands, it pushes his head into the soil.
• 1:56:24
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, like get down your knees, worm.
• 1:56:27
  SPEAKER_02: But also, it it's so clear that the creature doesn't want to kill him, right?
• 1:56:33
  SPEAKER_02: Like, no, like you said, it wants so.
• 1:56:35
  SPEAKER_02: I found that interesting too because it exercises force on a couple of occasions, but it doesn't quite let its baser self take control.
• 1:56:45
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, like it it exercises like a level of of self-control, which I thought was really cool.
• 1:56:51
  SPEAKER_02: So, as the creature appears most vulnerable, Luke plants a hatchet in its side.
• 1:57:00
  SPEAKER_00: And this, like, this brings his grief and his survivorship, what happened in that store, it brings his arc full circle here.
• 1:57:12
  SPEAKER_00: And this is a really important because for the first time in he sees Robert dead, and Robert's face turns towards him, and for the first time in his life, he doesn't freeze, right?
• 1:57:27
  SPEAKER_00: He doesn't do what he did in that robbery memory.
• 1:57:29
  SPEAKER_00: He decides, I'm gonna fight because I didn't fight back then, I'm gonna fight now.
• 1:57:35
  SPEAKER_00: And I and it's I'm like almost tearing up here.
• 1:57:38
  SPEAKER_00: It's so yeah, it's very emotional.
• 1:57:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's so well done.
• 1:57:42
  SPEAKER_00: And he gets up on he gets up and he slashes the creature, and it's it's not really about the slashing the creature, it's about this the symbolicness of him for the first time confronting that memory head on and saying, I get I get a second chance at this at this.
• 1:57:58
  SPEAKER_00: And yeah, it's I just think that's really, really so awesome.
• 1:58:02
  SPEAKER_00: It's so well done, and it's a second chance to rectify something that happened in the past.
• 1:58:08
  SPEAKER_02: I also think it culminates in this, and I found this quite emotional.
• 1:58:14
  SPEAKER_02: So as the monster roars at him, he really kind of takes back the power, and he releases like a crippling cry.
• 1:58:28
  SPEAKER_02: Like in defiance, in standing in his power, in release.
• 1:58:35
  SPEAKER_02: Like, what a fucking good emotional cap to his arc, and it was fucking excellently done.
• 1:58:43
  SPEAKER_00: And I think, too, this is like we have a bunch of stuff coming to a head here, too.
• 1:58:48
  SPEAKER_00: The creature won't leave the confines of the forest and just yells at him and he yells back at it, like you said.
• 1:58:54
  SPEAKER_00: And I think him standing up to the creature breaks that ethereal psycho psych, like uh psychological, telepathic hold that the creature had on him.
• 1:59:06
  SPEAKER_00: Because I said this earlier, but I don't believe that the settlement was this close to the exit of the woods.
• 1:59:13
  SPEAKER_00: Like true.
• 1:59:14
  SPEAKER_00: I think the woods at this point in the game, the woods are an ethereal projection that he that the creature can not the woods are physically there, but what I mean is he can shift around the environment to keep people there.
• 1:59:30
  SPEAKER_00: And him and we know this because it casts hallucination.
• 1:59:33
  SPEAKER_00: So and him chopping it all of a sudden, he finds the exit of the woods not even, you know, 50 meters from where he had the conversation with the beast.
• 1:59:47
  SPEAKER_00: We see him watch a car on the highway drive by like uh miles off into the distance, which further to me speaks to like this settlement was not it's really not that close into the woods.
• 1:59:58
  SPEAKER_00: It's just him he finally broke free of this creature's hold and was able to like escape the woods.
• 2:00:05
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 2:00:07
  SPEAKER_00: I just think it's an awesome ending.
• 2:00:09
  SPEAKER_02: So, like you said, we cut to Luke exiting the forest, hatchet in hand, a warrior, free to roam among the mountains.
• 2:00:20
  SPEAKER_02: I tried to make that poetic.
• 2:00:22
  SPEAKER_02: And I like the first part of it.
• 2:00:24
  SPEAKER_02: I was kidding.
• 2:00:24
  SPEAKER_02: That's like that's the movie.
• 2:00:27
  SPEAKER_02: Do you have any final thoughts before we rap?
• 2:00:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I guess talking with the ending out loud, I it was it just got that much better for me.
• 2:00:37
  SPEAKER_00: Like I've seen it twice now, and kind of seeing what that represented for that movie, like him confronting that memory, it really makes me make this love this ending so much more.
• 2:00:49
  SPEAKER_00: I I really, really like this movie.
• 2:00:51
  SPEAKER_00: It's I think it's one of the better films that we've covered.
• 2:00:54
  SPEAKER_00: And yes, it's probably, in my opinion, the best film that we've covered.
• 2:00:58
  SPEAKER_00: And uh holy shit, I really want to, I really want to go into the nighthouse at some point.
• 2:01:03
  SPEAKER_00: But this movie, I I it's just wonderful, awesome movie.
• 2:01:06
  SPEAKER_02: It's also interesting, like talking to you about this stuff because like I learn so much.
• 2:01:12
  SPEAKER_02: Like when you were talking about the hatchet, for instance, I'm like, I hadn't considered like I was just like, oh, it's a tactical move, but the way that you described it lends so much more value to it.
• 2:01:25
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm like, oh, like I actually I think that's the fun thing about this podcast is like talking to you about these things that oh sometimes we'll like chit chat, but it's like when you're actually more like discussing it more in depth, you're like, wow, I just hadn't considered that even, you know, and it's cool.
• 2:01:41
  SPEAKER_00: It's really, really fun that like with this, we're we're trying to like we're having fun, we're trying to deliver a kind of entertainment to people listening, but it's also a really cool way to get an awesome in depth conversation with my brother about a medium that we both love more than anything.
• 2:02:01
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 2:02:02
  SPEAKER_02: All right, so that is the ritual, y'all.
• 2:02:05
  SPEAKER_02: Join us again soon for our next feature film.