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The Craft · The Art of Costume Podcast

0:06
Hello, welcome to the Art of Costume podcast.
0:07
I'm Elizabeth Joy Glass. And I'm Spencer Williams.
0:11
Happy spooky season, Elizabeth. Happy spooky season.
0:16
I am so excited. I cannot wait to get into it,
0:20
especially because we are starting off spooky season and
0:25
just like the best way possible. It is.
0:28
And I mean, to me, the best way possible is actually having you
0:33
here in person with me in Los Angeles.
0:37
As we mentioned in last week's episode, we are going to be at
0:41
Los Angeles Comic Con, The Art of Costume Podcast's first
0:45
panel, live panel ever. Yes, in existence, Saturday,
0:51
October 5th, LA Comic Con. Our panel is called Dressing the
0:54
Multiverse Behind the Costumes of Loki, in which Elizabeth and
0:59
I are going to dive deep into the incredible costume design
1:03
process for both seasons of the series starring our favorite God
1:07
of Mischief, Tom Hiddleston. And I'm excited to announce that
1:11
we will be joined by three very special guests.
1:15
That is Tamsin Costello, the assistant costume designer for
1:18
Loki Season 1, Marcy Rector, the key costumer for Loki Season 1,
1:24
and Felipe Sanchez, who is a costume illustrator on both
1:27
seasons of Loki. Elizabeth, it's going so much
1:31
fun. I am so excited.
1:33
I cannot wait to get out there and talk with these amazing
1:37
creators. It's I'm just so excited.
1:40
Well, Elizabeth is our favorite time of the year, spooky season.
1:44
And yes, reminder from what our big theme is this season.
1:50
Everybody Our theme for spooky season 2024 is Witches.
1:56
It is the season of the witch here at the Arctic Costume.
2:01
I'm so excited. I've been, I've been waiting for
2:04
this moment since November, December of last year.
2:07
Usually as soon as we finish spooky season we are like, OK,
2:10
what do we want to do next year? Yeah, I remember you bringing up
2:14
some witchy things and I was like, I think I know what next
2:16
year's going to be. Yep, I was feeling it.
2:19
I was feeling it and I couldn't think of a better film to start
2:24
off the season of The Witch than with The Craft.
2:29
Elizabeth. I'm very excited to get to your
2:32
thoughts because I feel like. This was my first time viewing
2:36
it. Yeah, I was rewatching this last
2:38
night and I was like, I wonder how Elizabeth's experience is
2:42
going right now. I was interesting.
2:46
It was not what I was expecting. Before we get too deep into it,
2:50
why don't they give us a summary so we could catch everyone up to
2:53
speed? So the craft After transferring
2:57
to a Catholic prep high school in Los Angeles, Sarah, who
3:02
possesses telekinetic abilities, befriends a trio of outcast
3:06
girls, Bonnie, Rochelle and Nancy, who practice witchcraft
3:11
and are seeking a fourth member for the rituals, someone to
3:15
match their freak. Like Sarah, the girls have
3:19
troubled past and their growing powers lead them to cast
3:23
dangerous spells and curses against those who anger them as
3:28
their abilities spiral out of control.
3:30
A minor spell causing a fellow student to lose her hair.
3:33
It's just the beginning of their power mad descent into chaos and
3:39
that is the craft. I went hard on that summary this
3:42
this time around. You did, you did.
3:45
You got it down now. The craft was directed by Andrew
3:51
Fleming. And now let's meet our costume
3:56
designer, Deborah Everton. You will know her work from The
4:01
Abyss Blowout, Star Trek First Contact, Halloween, H2O, 20
4:10
Years Later, Dick, Spy Kids, Clock Stompers, and Battlestar
4:17
Galactica. And she one of her earliest jobs
4:22
was as a costume supervisor on The Terminator in 1984.
4:27
Yeah. I also, I found this little note
4:29
in my research which we'll get into, but I wanted to add this
4:32
to your segment. But I thought this was really
4:34
cool about Deborah because I believe she might be retired now
4:38
or you know, do we just take in a back seat?
4:41
But during 2020, you know, obviously we were all kind of
4:44
evolving and having to find different ways to understand
4:48
their craft. During a pandemic.
4:50
Deborah create online Zoom art classes to teach children ages
4:54
10 enough how to make crafts and develop their own creative side,
4:58
which include cutting, sewing, painting, drying, gluing,
5:01
glittering, of course, it says and many other techniques at
5:05
artsycraftystudio.com. I just thought that was a cool
5:08
little note. That's amazing.
5:09
That's so cool. But back to Deborah.
5:13
Spy Kids to me is one of my favorite films of all time.
5:17
What a childhood throwback and what a what a like arts classic.
5:22
Yeah, you put Spy Kids on and I'm sad.
5:25
I'm sad. It's been a really long time
5:27
since I've watched Spy Kids. Well, yeah, so Deborah has a
5:31
very, very cool, exciting career.
5:34
And I'm really excited about this episode because The Craft
5:38
really is such a cultural touchstone in fashion and
5:44
costume. I mean it.
5:46
Oh yeah. It's such a 90s staple.
5:48
And now that I've seen The Craft again, I've seen it before.
5:51
But this is like my first time as like, an adult who talks
5:54
about costume design for a living.
5:57
It's like the antithesis to Clueless.
6:01
It's like evil Clueless but has the same impact.
6:07
We have so much to get into, but first, Elizabeth I bought a
6:11
couple of words from our sponsors.
6:13
Oh yeah. Hi, I'm Dan who does all the
6:20
magic behind the scenes. I wanted to say thank you and if
6:24
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tpublic.com/user slash The Art of Costume where you can buy a
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6:38
Also, be sure to leave a like comment and subscribe.
6:42
And if you're an audio listener, leave us a Five Star Review and
6:45
Apple podcast. Now, back to the show.
6:53
Well, Elizabeth, before we get into the craft, I also have to
6:56
ask you one more thing that's been on my chest.
6:59
Yeah. How was the play?
7:02
How was the musical? It's like the weekend, right?
7:05
Yeah, yes, Ride the Cyclone. It it was fun.
7:10
There were challenges I was not expecting.
7:16
Yeah. Robot head took a little trial
7:19
and error to fit on the actor correctly so he could dance.
7:24
Yeah, that that was a bit of a struggle.
7:26
And then also finding high heels for one of the guys in the cast
7:32
was a little bit of a struggle, especially after the pair that
7:36
fit him and he could actually walk in broke.
7:39
Oh. Man, so it was a lot of like
7:42
overnight Amazon trying to find stores in the area that actually
7:47
carried because he was like a a woman size 11.
7:52
So it was it was a struggle, but it turned out really well and
7:56
was very happy with it. I think I sent you the real they
7:59
did. Yeah, well, I'll be happy to
8:02
share it with the Art of Costume audience as well.
8:05
So look out for that everyone. Thank you.
8:08
That's exciting. But you know what was also
8:10
exciting after working on that? Because the children in that
8:15
musical, they're all Catholic school students.
8:17
So I had to look at a lot of Catholic school uniforms.
8:21
So when I turned on the craft, I was like, Oh yeah, these girls
8:24
are at a Catholic school. Yeah, let's get into the craft.
8:30
Another high school that takes place in Los Angeles also
8:34
because so did Clueless. So I'm really loving the idea of
8:38
calling this like, evil clueless or calling clueless like like
8:43
pure craft or I don't know. But let's talk about our four
8:48
girls, Nancy, Sarah, Bonnie and Rochelle.
8:53
I don't know I this is fun. This is so much fun and I love
8:57
their costumes. Although as someone who had to
9:01
attend a Christian School and wear a uniform, I was like, they
9:05
would not get away with that much self-expression, not in a
9:09
million years. Their kilts were an appropriate
9:14
length though. No one was making them get on
9:16
their knees and measure them so. Oh wow, the trauma is bubbling
9:23
up right now It. Actually took me a second to
9:26
realize they went to a Catholic school because they just all
9:29
looked so good. Right.
9:30
I mean, nothing about Nancy is like screaming Catholic
9:34
schoolgirl at any point. No, I think Deborah Everton
9:38
probably was having the same conversations as well because
9:41
she actually goes into death about the uniform.
9:45
And I'll say throughout this episode, I think I used three
9:48
different sources. And one of the primary sources
9:51
was this article in Dazed called Creating the Cult Fashion That
9:55
Defined a Craft by Brooke Mick Cord, where she actually
10:01
interviewed Deborah about this film.
10:04
There's actually not a lot of interviews about the craft
10:07
costumes which I. Was from the 90s.
10:10
I was shocked. I thought people be lighting her
10:12
up, especially nowadays. It doesn't surprise me.
10:16
During the 90s, not so much, but now I was like, Debra, come on,
10:19
come on the podcast. Yeah, I.
10:22
Guess. But talking about pushing the
10:25
boundaries of the uniform, Deborah says the idea, the idea
10:31
of delving into the personalities of these four
10:34
girls was very exciting. I was a little daunted at first,
10:37
as a lot of it is very Catholic school uniform, but after
10:41
thinking about it for a while, I realized that I could make even
10:44
the uniforms character driven. And since they're actually in
10:47
those uniforms most of the time, that was an important aspect of
10:51
the film. I went to an all girls boarding
10:53
school. An idea of a uniform was just a
10:56
soul crusher. It was fine so long as you wore
10:59
skirt, tights or knee socks, a blazer or a sweater and it had
11:02
to be Gray or blue. I sent sarcasm in there.
11:06
I think that took the pain out of it a little.
11:08
It made girls realize that they could work within the rules and
11:11
still create an identity at the fittings.
11:14
I roughly figured out in my head who each girl was, and I very
11:17
loosely gave each of them an element for when I got stuck so
11:21
I could always go back to this elemental thing.
11:25
So that is her feedback on the uniforms, which I thought she
11:30
did a great job. You really see she did a very.
11:32
Good job. It's like she mentions it comes
11:34
to the layering of it. You know, they're all that kind
11:37
of like different levels of dress, different colors, lots of
11:42
accessorizing. Or, in the case of Bonnie, just
11:46
covering herself in long COVID up jackets.
11:51
I was like, girl, you must be so hot.
11:53
It's Los Angeles. I'm glad you brought up Bonnie
11:56
also. Well, I guess I brought her up,
11:59
but Elizabeth, every time Neve Campbell as Bonnie was on screen
12:06
in that jacket, I just cannot stop thinking that's fucking
12:09
you. You are Bonnie.
12:12
You guys look so similar. Even the hair, everything about
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it, I was like, that's Bonnie. That's Elizabeth.
12:20
Maybe when my hair was longer. My hair is very short now.
12:24
I totally see it. And that's not a day.
12:27
I think Bonnie might be my favorite, actually.
12:30
Well, I mean, except for Nancy, but but that's neither of
12:35
course. Of course.
12:36
That's neither here, of course. Nancy is your favorite.
12:42
But reading into all this research, I I came across the
12:46
story that I thought was hilarious.
12:47
That actually was about the first day of shooting, which
12:52
Deborah Everton regards as a absolute nightmare.
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Oh. My gosh.
12:59
She said in that same interview for Dazed.
13:03
The first scene where the girls come together and Sarah starts
13:06
school is actually a funny story.
13:08
I put her in a very nondescript beige T-shirt dress and a big
13:12
sloppy sweatshirt. None of the girls were really
13:15
formed yet. Their outfits were hinting at
13:17
who they were, but not really. That was our first day of
13:20
shooting and the studio saw it and flipped out.
13:24
They thought I had lost my mind. They thought the visual was
13:28
terrible. This whole posse showed up at my
13:30
office, which was terrifying, and I had to calm them down.
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I was like no, no, no, this is where we are.
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Sarah's suicidal. She's really a non person.
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She doesn't know who she is and she's floundering.
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That's what her costume is showing.
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Then I show them how the girls would progress through the
13:48
script, and luckily enough, they didn't fire me.
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That was a scary moment. I learned that you never want to
13:53
start your first day of shooting like that.
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You always want to start with a strong image that will relax
13:58
them, because you know your job's on that line too.
14:02
You know, I love how, like, I feel like I've heard this story
14:07
so many times from so many different people in the industry
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where it's like everything's going great, everything's fine.
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Then one day some executive or group of executives shows up,
14:19
flips out, and I'm just like, where were you during the
14:23
planning process? Right.
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Suddenly, like, next thing you know, you have Doctor Warner
14:27
Brother the Third walking and he's like, what the hell is
14:31
that? Say, excuse me, Sir, are you a
14:33
costume designer? Are you a director?
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Are you a set designer? No.
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Yeah. Trust the process, my guy.
14:40
Oh my gosh. I could imagine that moment
14:41
though where you look up in the like main characters wearing
14:44
like the sloppy shirt and they're like.
14:48
Squeeze me. We wanted goth, we wanted black,
14:51
we wanted scary. But it is interesting that they
14:54
start really from the very, very beginning though, first day of
14:57
shooting. So that's kind of rare.
15:01
OK, picture this. I'm sitting down watching the
15:04
craft, which has been decades since I've seen the craft, if
15:07
I'm being honest. Nancy appears in this black
15:12
vinyl pleather leather. I don't know, this black so
15:16
good. I audibly gasped.
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Elizabeth. I bet you did.
15:21
I bet you want that coat, Spencer.
15:23
Oh come on, what did you think when he saw it?
15:26
No, I loved it. I thought it was so 90s.
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It was so goth because like I remember like the early, the
15:31
late night 90s, early aughts, there was just that explosion of
15:34
like plastic everything, plastic clothes, furniture.
15:38
A whole number. We did a whole episode about the
15:41
Matrix and those black coats and how they just held everyone at
15:45
in a chokehold position forever still to this day.
15:49
But it just reminded me of that. I was like, I wish I'd had a
15:54
blow up chair made-up. Oh man, I never had one of
15:58
those. I was really sad about that.
16:00
Anyways, going back to Nancy's jacket, of course Deborah talked
16:07
about that jacket to Brooke at days.
16:10
She said Nancy's clothes were her armor, which, you know, I
16:15
love when anyone, any costume designer, says that Nancy was
16:19
possibly the most damaged character in the film.
16:22
Possibly. Clothes were like armored to
16:27
her. She would scare people off.
16:29
She was like let me do the rejecting before I'm rejected.
16:33
Her character lived in a trailer park and her mom was an
16:36
alcoholic. They didn't have a lot of money
16:38
so a lot of her stuff had to come from pretty low end
16:41
sources. If I couldn't find what I
16:43
wanted, I would just make it. Her PVC coat said a lot about
16:47
her character. I may have made that, but I
16:49
can't be 100% sure. Normally your character would
16:53
have thrifted clothes, but you can't get multiples you need
16:55
when you're buying vintage clothing.
16:57
And she wore that coat several times.
16:59
So I would say I made it. But you know, this is 20 years
17:02
ago and I've made a lot of clothes since then.
17:04
So true. How would you not know if you
17:07
make one of the most iconic golf coats of the 90s?
17:12
Because these these artists aren't thinking about it in the
17:15
moment. They're doing a job.
17:16
They're getting done what they have to get done.
17:18
And I doubt they're getting enough sleep.
17:20
Yeah. Or enough money, might I add.
17:22
But yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, I would like to imagine
17:27
that like every film at this time, people think they're just
17:30
making this movie that's never going to go anywhere.
17:32
That's always seems all the most iconic films were made by people
17:36
who thought this film might be garbage.
17:38
Oh yeah. Clueless the craft Beetlejuice
17:42
like all these movies are, people are like, no one's going
17:44
to watch this. But those are the ones that
17:46
capture our imagination. There you go.
17:49
There you go, Elizabeth. But yeah, just that coat just
17:55
gave me so much life. Then our our coven of witchy
18:00
gills get together, Yes. And they're looking for their
18:04
4th and they found it in Sarah. And I just love the scene where
18:08
they're all together in the woods, chanting, talking to the
18:12
towers and whatnot, just because seeing all of them and they're
18:16
like, not uniform before the money and the power.
18:20
Yeah, I'm like, this is 2024. This is the modern aesthetic.
18:26
It was, it was super funny, like watching them and being like,
18:30
oh, this has come back. Because like I remember it like
18:32
when we were kids and then it went out and now it is just like
18:36
fully back. I feel like especially like
18:39
Rochelle, I was really. Rochelle is the poster child of
18:44
this generation. Yes, absolutely.
18:47
I was like, she could like, walk onto the street right now and no
18:51
one would look twice. I feel like the aesthetic maybe
18:54
it's starting to fade a little bit compared to like 2-3 years
18:58
ago when I felt like Free People was like really strong a couple
19:02
years ago. Yeah.
19:04
Maybe it's starting to dwindle a little bit, but it's still
19:07
definitely there, which just shows like the cultural impact
19:10
of films and costume designers such as Deborah.
19:14
Part of my research also I found this article from E Online
19:18
called 25 Bewitching Secrets about the craft revealed and it
19:22
talked about finding these actresses because they all I
19:26
think work really well together because they all bring something
19:31
different and but also something similar like they just feel so
19:36
cohesive to me. In this article they have a
19:41
quote from the Huffington Post 2016 oral history of the movie.
19:47
And this quote from director Andrew Fleming says finding the
19:51
right 4 actresses to play the crafts coven of witches took
19:55
nine months and LED to test deals with 85 girls.
20:00
The casting was really for some reason very difficult.
20:03
I think it was a process for the studio to wrap their heads
20:06
around finding 4 fresh faces and making a movie out of them,
20:11
which I think is an important point.
20:13
I mean at this point. These 4 actresses for with the
20:17
exception of Robin, they're all pretty new.
20:22
Yeah, this is actually before Scream for Neve Campbell.
20:26
Oh, really? I mean, like, barely.
20:29
Barely. Yeah.
20:31
I mean, she actually might have just wrapped scream or a
20:34
starting scream. Like that's how close it is.
20:37
Wow. That's wild.
20:40
Yeah, so they're all new little babies.
20:42
I cannot imagine seeing Feruza Bulk come in to the casting room
20:48
though. And they didn't cast her
20:49
immediately though, because she is Nancy.
20:54
Yes, absolutely. Another moment I want to talk
20:58
about was their little road trip when we see them down to the bus
21:03
and I think they say we are the weirdos or we are the freaks,
21:07
one of the two, which is another good line.
21:12
It's just I love this aesthetic that's like on the border of
21:16
goth and also still very punk too at the same time.
21:20
And they all wear it so differently.
21:22
I don't know. Again, I just feel like I could
21:24
see all these looks on you, Elizabeth.
21:28
Stop. It's true.
21:32
Especially I really loved Nancy in this scene, just like the use
21:38
of layering as well, I think was something Deborah really got
21:42
right. And not just laying of clothes,
21:45
the layering of accessories. Even like Nancy where if you go
21:52
to Instagram at the art of costume or if you listen to this
21:57
go on YouTube, we will have the visuals of what we're talking
22:00
about right now. But Nancy, like I love her, like
22:05
the like all purple like witchy style of like the long sleeve
22:11
shirt and like the the dress. Deborah's also got those like
22:15
purple tinted sunglasses stuck in the dress with the little
22:20
necklace. And it's like without the
22:23
accessories, I don't think any of these would work.
22:27
But it's this accessories that take them from just like I feel
22:31
like kids experimenting with clothes to individual looks.
22:36
Yeah, Sarah's wearing the purple.
22:38
Nancy has the red tinted sunglasses which are absolutely
22:41
killer. You know she's a baddie.
22:44
She's a baddie color blood. And I I just also want to kind
22:48
of dive a little bit into the aesthetic here, which in that
22:52
oral history talked about, it's called Relax, It's Only Magic
22:56
and Oral History of the Craft by Matthew Jacobs and Julia
23:00
Bruclieri. They actually interviewed some
23:03
of the creative team and one of our actresses, Rachel True, who
23:08
plays Rochelle. So in this conversation, they
23:11
both kind of gave their takes on the aesthetic of the costumes in
23:16
the craft, the director, Andrew Fleming said.
23:20
We put them in these costumes that were kind of gothy.
23:23
That was my premise. What if those witchcraft girls
23:26
in high school dressed like they were in The Cure?
23:29
I just had this idea that they should have a punk element.
23:32
At that point, goth wasn't really a thing, which makes a
23:36
lot of sense. It is very punk, very The Cure,
23:40
very Susie Sue in the Banshees. It's absolutely.
23:45
It's doing all of that. I feel like the goth element
23:49
developed from this and was really going strong when we were
23:52
kids. Like this is definitely sort of
23:56
like the start of a true goth look.
24:00
Definitely. I don't know if Hot Topic was
24:03
around at this point. Maybe it was, maybe it wasn't.
24:05
I think it started in the 90s. Jefferson Hot Topic, The third
24:09
probably saw this movie and was like, you know what?
24:11
I have an idea for a store. So Peter Filardi, who is a
24:17
screenwriter, he said the girls in the craft were mixes and
24:20
matches of girls I knew. But even more so, they were
24:23
inspired and powered by goddess archetypes and earth elements.
24:27
Sarah is earth, Bonnie with the power of foresight is wind,
24:32
Rochelle the diver is water, and Nancy, of course, is fire.
24:37
Which honestly, those red sunglasses we're just talking
24:40
about, It's right there. That's right there.
24:43
Everyone dive deep. And finally, the final quote and
24:47
want to read was from Rachel True, who plays Rochelle, who we
24:50
just decided is water. She said.
24:55
The costumes are kind of how we were all dressing in the 90s.
24:58
Ferruza was like, she was straight out of a goth band.
25:02
When I moved to California, which was maybe two or three
25:04
years before I got the craft, I'd come from New York, where
25:07
everybody dressed all in black. Everybody looked like
25:11
Favourouza's character in the East Village.
25:13
That was a normal look for me. But the second I got off the
25:15
plane in California, I was like, how does everybody have on the
25:19
exact same little flower dress? So I just realized that's the
25:26
California take on all of this. The flower dresses we have in
25:29
there are very specific to exactly what was happening in
25:32
California casual fashion. Now it looks super specific and
25:36
dated, but in a super cool way. I disagree with that last point.
25:39
I don't think it looks stated to me.
25:41
Yeah, because it just came back so hard, which actually I think
25:46
this oral history is from like 2016, so that kind of checks
25:50
out. So.
25:51
But yeah, I mean, the three of them all nailed it.
25:55
It's just going back to the original source and just how,
25:58
you know, to us, maybe this feels cost to me, But back then
26:02
this might have felt more like reality than costume.
26:06
Yeah, probably. I think we should take a little
26:09
break from talking about the coven though and get into.
26:12
Into Ski Orich. Yeah, this guy.
26:15
Why? Is he always playing such a
26:17
terrible character in these 90s of your age?
26:21
I love him. What?
26:23
It's funny to say that Elizabeth because Ski Orich would actually
26:26
agree with you. His character of Chris Hooker,
26:30
which who came up with that name In the article from E Online,
26:35
they mentioned that while he got the gig, Ski Ulrich wasn't
26:40
exactly thrilled with his performance of the football
26:43
captain turned Nancy's victim. He was quota saying I was
26:47
horrible in it. In my opinion.
26:49
I was so green. I look at it now and people talk
26:52
about and I go, oh God, I was so bad in that.
26:57
And they also mentioned in the article that that same year in
27:01
1996, like I think in a later part around October, was when
27:06
Skeet Ulrich and Eve Campbell play boyfriend and girlfriend
27:09
and scream so. That's wild.
27:12
Yeah, give it a break. I don't think it was that bad,
27:15
you know, I just think he was a shitty character.
27:19
Yeah, same it. Would be hard to watch myself in
27:21
that too, you know? I mean, he felt like a like dumb
27:26
teenage boy like, so I think he did a good job.
27:30
I think he's a little hard on himself.
27:32
And you know, if he felt bad about his performance in this,
27:34
he really, he really kicked it up for Scream.
27:38
Yeah. I mean, talk about for both of
27:40
them. I mean, I think Neve Campbell is
27:42
great in this, but I mean, Oh yeah, think about the trajectory
27:45
of both of them doing Scream right after this and just being
27:48
catapulted to this. I mean, the Hall of the Greats
27:52
in terms of like horror films, like these two live rent free in
27:57
any horror films, mind. So I don't know.
28:02
You're all right, Mr. Skeet. Yeah, he's fine.
28:06
He like and he looked like such a like football kid.
28:11
Yeah, especially right before he's murdered with the hat.
28:16
Oh man, I. Was like, oh, Oh no.
28:20
Yeah, I gotta say, I was a little bummed with the
28:23
trajectory of the story. I was like, guys, we're going a
28:26
little too hard on poor Sarah. She just said, yeah, she
28:30
disagreed with the spell. Demi, we all have to try to
28:34
murder her in a couple days. A.
28:35
Lot of people are dying all of a sudden, so OK.
28:41
This was of communication. Yes, but this was my problem
28:45
with the craft. I thought it was going to be a
28:47
bunch of like outcast girls, like finding community and like
28:54
getting like mild revenge on the people who wronged them and like
29:01
maybe a murder of like a really bad person.
29:05
And then no, they just immediately turn on the New Girl
29:11
as soon as she's like, hey everyone, I think we need to
29:16
step back and think about what we're doing.
29:18
She didn't even say they should stop.
29:21
She was like, we need to take reasonable.
29:22
Precautions. Yeah.
29:24
She was like, can we have a Zoom meeting about this or something?
29:26
And Nancy was like, we're going to kill her ass tomorrow.
29:30
I mean, honestly, it tracks a little bit for just teenage
29:33
girls. Yeah, that's true.
29:36
We have to look at them as teenage girls.
29:38
Yeah. Like does track a little bit,
29:43
but like I I was excited for something like positive out of
29:48
the whole thing and it it didn't didn't feel that way.
29:52
Yeah, now it definitely felt dark sided.
29:54
I didn't feel warm and fuzzy when I crawled into bed after I
29:56
finished watching this. But I will get into this at the
30:00
stitch rating. We've that's coming up.
30:02
Don't you all worry, which I think there's a lot of pressure
30:05
on Elizabeth right now. A few more quotes I want to read
30:10
about. For example, I love that scene
30:12
when they're helping Rochelle levitate, which was.
30:16
Yeah. Funny, why is a feather stiff as
30:19
a board? I think is how it goes.
30:21
Yeah, yeah, that game, yeah. Which I was like, oh, is that
30:26
actually a game? I didn't know.
30:27
Yeah, it apparently is. I never played it but I've heard
30:30
of other people doing it. I think it's a good scene
30:34
because it really shows just these characters, like in their
30:37
clothing. That's not like they're not
30:39
trying to be anything other than themselves in this moment.
30:45
And it kind of paired with this great quote I found from Deborah
30:49
also in Days and where we she talked about how the costumes
30:53
had to be accessible for a teenage girl.
30:57
So she said was quota saying I get inspired by what's around me
31:01
and if I can't find it, I just make it.
31:03
Even if it's jewelry, I'll grab a pair of pliers and make the
31:06
damn thing myself or find an artisan that can do it.
31:10
But in the case of the craft, everything had to be well
31:12
accessible to a teenage girl at the time.
31:15
OI tended to go to those places. I always try to do that fashiony
31:19
thing and try to make it so that the looks can be replicated by
31:22
kids to some extent. Although I had no idea how
31:25
successful it would be or how much it would resonate with kids
31:28
at the time. I also tried not to be too out
31:31
there. You know, this wasn't a sci-fi
31:33
movie where I was creating my own universe.
31:35
These are people in the real world.
31:37
I thought there would be girls who would want to dress like
31:39
that. I just didn't know how much they
31:41
actually would. I tagged along to some press
31:44
junkets in Paris and I found out that kids, girls were going to
31:48
the theater dressed as the characters.
31:50
That's the first idea I had about how much this film
31:53
resonated with kids. I just thought that they would
31:55
look and go, oh, cool, and then forget about.
31:57
But no, 20 years later, we're still seeing the same look.
32:03
And, you know, and I think that's really important.
32:05
And it's something that we we've talked about also when we did
32:08
clueless also like how these designers of the 90s really were
32:12
going back to a place where like everything was kind of thrifted
32:15
and sustainable and second hand and also just felt like real.
32:19
That was why these 90s films were so successful, because they
32:22
spoke to real, you know, teenage people.
32:26
Whether it be The Craft or Clueless or all these other 90s
32:30
films, you could see yourself in these characters, which is why
32:33
they're so successful. I would, I would absolutely
32:36
agree. And I and I, I feel like we're
32:39
like maybe getting back to that place because it's definitely
32:43
feel like in the 2000s, these sort of films became a lot more
32:47
commercialized and a lot more fashion forward, which was fun
32:52
for, you know, us. There's a lot of fun in that.
32:56
But definitely like, I could see myself going and being able to
33:00
find this stuff. There's not a lot of films from
33:03
like the Odds or the 20 Tens where I'm like, Oh yeah, I could
33:05
have just like gone out and bought that.
33:10
But I can go down to my goodwill right now and probably put
33:14
together a craft look. That would be fun honestly.
33:18
I see that for you. Because we're in spooky season
33:23
Elizabeth, I thought we could read a little spooky fact about
33:25
the craft. Also, this is an E online as
33:30
well. Little known fact, the writers
33:33
actually met with Wiccans and had a consultant, Pat Devin, on
33:37
set to help write the incantations and spells she's
33:41
credited in a movie as a technical consultant.
33:43
But she was really there to try to make it real, director
33:46
Fleming said. I wanted Wiccans to see and say,
33:49
yeah, that's not offensive to me.
33:50
That's what it's like. The whole idea was to make up
33:53
stuff because the God that they refer to in a movie is something
33:56
that we made-up because it might have been offensive to people if
33:59
we had used people's real gods. So we create our own.
34:03
And then I also, Elizabeth, want to go to that scene where they
34:06
do the incantation by the ocean and every single, every single
34:11
shark in the ocean ends up on the beach, which I was sad
34:13
about, Yeah. That was sad.
34:15
And that's when you're like, oh, Nancy.
34:18
Yeah, Nancy, not sure if I love how that turned out.
34:22
They had a park Ranger on set, and a park Ranger has said this
34:25
is the highest of waves will go at high tide, so we moved our
34:28
circle of fire inland from there, he recalled.
34:31
But it's just this odd thing where when the girls started the
34:34
incantations, the waves kind of came up and at one point wave
34:37
came and wiped the whole set out, WIC confirmed to set spooky
34:41
atmosphere, saying. I remember at the time everyone
34:44
was kind of captivated by these occurrences.
34:46
So this is referring to multiple instances.
34:50
And behind the scenes, it was Craft where people were like,
34:52
yeah, this is a fictional movie, but every time we did this
34:56
stuff, weird stuff would start happening and start to spook out
34:59
the crew. I mean, I have a consultant
35:02
trying to make it real and powers in your mind so.
35:07
It gets you a more real in the scene later on.
35:09
I'm just going to jump ahead for a little bit, but since we're in
35:11
the same space, in that scene where Nancy tortured Sarah at
35:15
the end of all the snakes they actually used, 10,000 snakes
35:20
were used during filming, including a boa constrictor that
35:24
was over 10 feet long. No, no, no, no. 10,000 That
35:29
seems absurd. No.
35:31
Where do you find 10,000 snakes? Those were real, no?
35:35
That's what they say. Absolutely not.
35:37
That's what that's what the streets are telling me,
35:40
Elizabeth. I don't like that.
35:44
No, me neither. I would have been gone.
35:46
Like that? What?
35:47
Fuck your witch film. I'm out of here by.
35:51
I would have started like hyperventilating.
35:53
They could not have gotten me on that set at all.
35:59
Well, we're nearing the end, but we still have some more costume
36:03
points that I wanted to bring up.
36:05
For example, did you know that Robin's character, Sarah, she's
36:12
wearing a wig throughout the film?
36:15
I really. Yeah.
36:16
That totally surprised me. The costume designer, Deborah,
36:19
wants her to have a Pixie cut, she said, but the studio wanted
36:24
a wig. Not sure why.
36:25
Sometimes studios make decisions and the rest of us just scratch
36:28
our heads and wonder why. But to me it looks so real and
36:33
honestly like this is another hairstyle that's kind of come
36:36
back too. Yeah, I never.
36:39
How is there a better wig in in 1996 than some of the wigs in
36:44
Game of Thrones? Yeah, true.
36:48
It's so real. Maybe it's because it changes
36:51
colors and stuff. Remember where she had that
36:53
moment? She's like, look, it's blonde
36:55
now. It's brown.
36:55
Yeah, maybe. I mean they could have done that
36:58
with her Pixie cut. Although I will say for the 90s
37:03
that is a more trendy look. The long hair, a Pixie cut, not
37:10
so much. Not as much.
37:12
Sorry, Deborah. I mean, clearly I'm a fan of a
37:14
short haircut, but. Right, right, right, right.
37:18
I don't know. I don't know if she was right on
37:19
this one. Another article I read which I
37:24
wanted to bring up was actually by Susan Deveny and British
37:27
Vogue, and she wrote an article just about the elements of the
37:31
craft that are still like, so real today.
37:36
And I'm talking about, of course, the black metallic and
37:39
spiky gothic chokers. Which was just.
37:42
Such a big thing, especially stacked necklaces and baring
37:47
your soul. As in, like, using the cross as
37:50
part of jewelry and like, people credit the craft as something
37:54
that really brought this into the limelight.
37:57
Yeah. Which I never thought of it like
37:59
that, but yeah, they really used to cross a lot in this film.
38:03
They did, didn't they? I didn't really think about it,
38:06
but also with them going to like a Catholic school like I guess
38:09
that makes that makes sense. Makes sense, but it's almost
38:11
like they're wearing it. Like I want to say in a mocking
38:13
way, but they're not wearing it for the same purpose of why
38:17
they're supposed to be wearing it.
38:20
Another moment I found was hilarious was Bonnies
38:24
transformation when her scars go away.
38:27
Oh my gosh, yes. I pulled a picture this morning.
38:31
I was just staring at it, and I was like, what about this
38:34
transformation was so dramatic that you felt like you're
38:37
looking a whole different person?
38:38
I'm like, oh, she's showing her arms and her neck.
38:41
That's all it was. Yeah, yeah, and has all the
38:44
confidence in the world. And I was like, you go, girl.
38:46
Yeah, you like. I really hope she maintained a
38:49
no scar. I hope so.
38:51
You know, status after all of this, I, I feel like, yeah, I
38:56
feel like her and Rochelle kind of learned their lesson.
38:59
They sure did. Way through and.
39:01
Sarah was like, I'm laying you off with a serious warning.
39:04
Yeah, don't hold your breath. But before they learned their
39:10
lesson. And Nancy gets a crap ton of
39:13
money after she gives her stepfather a heart attack I
39:16
assume and he passes away. Nancy comes into a lot of money.
39:21
But all of the girls become super elevated all of a sudden,
39:26
and they all look super fashionable, super good.
39:30
I especially liked Rochelle and Sarah, like they just felt like
39:36
so cute and put together. Especially Sarah's like beret.
39:39
It's like you go girl, you wear that.
39:41
The beret was so cool and, like, she looks like she's going
39:45
somewhere to, like, go read, like, really good poetry, yeah.
39:48
Or like she she has a copy of Interview with Vampire.
39:52
In her backpack and she's going to go.
39:54
Read that at a coffee shop. Yeah, right about the money and
39:59
Bonnie. Like in her new confidence, I
40:01
mean, she looks like, I swear, like Bonnie felt like a whole
40:05
different actress at this point after her scars were gone.
40:08
It was just so dramatic. I do love this little this
40:11
little romper she has on here. Oh, yeah, that's good stuff.
40:15
And that kind of brings us toward the end of the Craft.
40:17
Of course, you know, we have that finale at the end where
40:21
Nancy goes on her murderous rampage wearing every every
40:25
necklace known to man. Yeah.
40:27
But I mean, it's just such an incredible performance by Feruza
40:31
Bulk. I love every aspect of her
40:34
costume, from the hair down to the makeup to all the necklaces
40:39
despite choker collar, the black, I mean, just everything
40:43
about it was so great, so much fun.
40:47
But Elizabeth, I don't often bring up costumes I don't like,
40:52
but I actually had one what Bonnie's like red striped dress
41:00
that she showed up in to apologize.
41:02
Which maybe this is the joke, but Bonnie and Rochelle walk up
41:07
and these like pedestrian costumes the night after they
41:10
tried to murder her Bonnies rain distress.
41:13
And they're both like, hi, so sorry about last night.
41:17
We didn't mean for it to go that far.
41:19
Just kidding. So funny.
41:20
And I was like, girl, get out of here.
41:22
That ugly dress. So I'm going to say I actually
41:28
like the dress was so confused if it showed up.
41:35
I was like, I was like, this is because I think she's wearing
41:38
like matching pants with it. This is cool.
41:43
But like, I also feel like she just like rolled out of bed in
41:47
her PJS. Like, like Rochelle was like, we
41:51
got to go apologize. Yeah, before, before this gets
41:55
any worse. Yeah, I was confused.
42:01
I was confused especially because, like, Rochelle still
42:05
has some of the like, layered with her dress and the jacket.
42:08
She's got the choker. But yeah, the Bonnie's just like
42:11
I am here also. Right.
42:13
Like when did we introduce this circus print?
42:16
You know the spell. Yeah.
42:19
And like the color I was like, I was like the colors out of
42:23
nowhere. I mean, like Bonnie is like one
42:26
of the people wearing like not all black all the time.
42:30
Like she does have some other color elements.
42:32
And to Bonnie's like her shell, she's in like her new like hot
42:37
girl era, you know, where she's trying new things now that she
42:40
has this new confidence. So you know, she's playing
42:42
around with it, so. Yeah.
42:45
Yeah, costume nerds weigh in. Write us at
42:47
theartofcostume@gmail.com or Sassa DM on Instagram.
42:51
Tell us what you think of Bonnies controversial red and
42:57
baby pink striped dress. Deborah, if you're listening to
43:01
this, please let us know. Also, if you remember where you
43:06
got it, I would not be opposed to wearing this as a short dress
43:10
in my date today. So just.
43:12
Well, hold on, mate. Let me know if Deborah Everton's
43:15
listening to this. I want you to know that you're
43:16
an icon, and I want at least an hour to sit down with you and
43:20
talk about this film because you killed it.
43:22
Don't let our past two minutes about this one dress confuse
43:25
anyone. This film is a costume
43:27
masterpiece of my mind. But.
43:29
Absolutely, Absolutely. It was just the last costume we
43:34
saw was this. I yeah, I was definitely like,
43:40
yeah, what? Yeah, where'd that come from?
43:43
And Elizabeth, that brings us to the end of the Craft.
43:46
That was fun. That was fun, I knew it.
43:49
Would be a good one, but so tell me your thoughts.
43:52
Let's do our stitch ratings now. How many stitches would he give
43:56
this bad boy? So this was as I told you, this
44:00
was my first time ever watching it, so I had no like childhood
44:04
nostalgia about it, which I feel like a lot of people do.
44:09
That's not good for the rating. I gotta give it, I think a solid
44:15
3 stitches just for the costume design, just because it's it's
44:20
so good. It's so well thought out.
44:23
It has become so iconic and influenced fashion now for two
44:28
decades, 3 decades, Yeah, 3 decades almost of influencing
44:33
fashion. So I mean that that's just like
44:37
3 stitches right there. Everyone in this was amazing.
44:42
He Olrich, Don't be so hard on yourself.
44:45
I. Ski, you did fine.
44:47
You hear me? I know you're listening to this.
44:50
You did fine, my guy. You.
44:51
Did great. You were playing a shitty high
44:55
school boy and it was great. And in that fact, you nailed it
44:59
so. Yeah, was not what I was
45:05
expecting because I literally did not know anything about this
45:08
movie except like the costumes. Yeah.
45:12
Story wise, I was like a little like, huh, Yeah.
45:17
Which I think is what takes away those last two stitches, but you
45:20
know. Got you the.
45:21
Costumes hold it together, if nothing else.
45:24
Yeah, all right. Well, I think I'm gonna give it
45:28
a 3.5 and. 3.5 OK. I wanna say it's closer to a
45:33
four than a three. I have seen this before a few
45:37
times, but it's been forever. I think like I said, this is my
45:40
first time seeing it like as an adult with like adult eyes.
45:44
I knew how it started with a New Girl to this school and it ended
45:50
with Nancy go on like this rampage.
45:52
So I knew that somewhere we're going to get from point A to
45:56
this very dark point B. So going back to the story, I
46:01
thought it was kind of nonsense that what actually led to this
46:06
rampage to me felt like such a like, you know, like you and I
46:09
have talked about can we sit down and just chat about this
46:13
for like 2 minutes? Because like you said, she was
46:16
very much like, hey, I'm not saying I'm against a magic
46:18
thing, this is cool. I just think that, you know,
46:22
let's let Porsky or it go look at him.
46:24
I mean, he's just a mess. Like he he's a dumb teenager, he
46:30
doesn't deserve to die. But the costumes, we're very,
46:34
very strong. And there I say iconic.
46:38
And I think, you know, there could be a whole coffee table
46:41
book about the costumes of the craft designed by Deborah
46:44
Everton, an absolute icon. Deborah, if you'd like to talk
46:48
about Spy Kids, just hit us up, please.
46:54
Elizabeth, if I were to play our favorite game.
46:56
No, I'm not. Hold on.
46:59
Too bad. Hit the music, Daniel.
47:02
One costume to rule them all. All right, Elizabeth, did you
47:10
make a decision? I did.
47:14
So we, so you all know, we've been actually been sitting back
47:17
here backstage for like 15 minutes waiting for Elizabeth to
47:20
decide. It was a hard one for her.
47:21
It's a. Hard decision.
47:25
What? What was the final verdict?
47:27
MY1 costume to rule them all is Nancy's going outlook when they
47:34
get on the bus with the layered black short sleeve collar shirt
47:40
with the Nash long sleeve, the rosary, the tinted red
47:46
sunglasses. Like how iconic is that?
47:50
How 90s is that? Like how punk goth is that?
47:55
That is like the look. It's everything.
47:59
And again, like, I also, it reminds me to like when you and
48:04
I first met each other and you had like, this black vest I used
48:06
to wear. Yeah.
48:08
I wore that a lot. Elizabeth, there's a lot of you
48:12
and Nancy and Bonnie. I don't know.
48:15
This is a very you coded film. I think you should just.
48:19
Maybe a little bit, maybe a little bit.
48:21
No, it's definitely a good one. The red sunglasses and
48:24
everything, the mesh underneath everything just adds like such a
48:28
extra cool twist to it. I'm really in love with it.
48:33
I also got to give like honorable mention to Rochelle's
48:38
school uniform with the suspenders.
48:41
Oh yeah, if 6th grade Elizabeth could have gotten away with
48:45
wearing this to school, she absolutely would have.
48:51
Yeah, but that's really cool. It's a good one.
48:54
Yeah. When they're just, like, casual
48:55
in their uniforms, they still looked incredible in them in the
48:59
ways that they accessorize them. MY1 costume to rule them all had
49:05
to be Nancy's black vinyl coat. I mean, like I said, I audibly
49:10
gasped when I saw him because it was just so shocking and
49:13
striking for her to have brought this to school where everyone's
49:16
wearing these uniforms. I just thought, I mean, you
49:20
know, it's iconic. It's just so good.
49:22
There's just not much for me to say.
49:24
It was. So I decided this before the
49:27
movie even ended. I knew this was my one costume
49:29
to rule them all. You love a coat, so that's that
49:33
makes sense. Elizabeth, this has been a lot
49:37
of fun, but we're changing it up in the season of the Witch.
49:41
We're talking about all sorts of different witches.
49:43
And, you know, this coven was really kind of trying to tap
49:47
into their roots as witches. And I think this next film
49:51
really takes us all the way back to some of the beginnings of
49:56
what we know as witchcraft. What are we watching next week?
49:59
Next week, by the way? Because in October, we're doing
50:02
episodes every week, everyone. Yes, yes, October is our month
50:07
of weekly episodes and we're getting to watch a movie I am so
50:13
excited to see For the first time, we are watching The Witch.
50:20
Yay, it looks like for you to see this for your first and a
50:25
half time. It's it's a good one and we've
50:29
been it's been this long joke about how I'm very convinced she
50:32
went to the movies with me and Elizabeth is ready to speak in
50:36
front of a jury and that so she did not see it.
50:42
This is a good film. I love it.
50:43
It's Anya Taylor Joy's I want to say it's like her first film.
50:47
So it's like a very baby Anya Taylor Joy.
50:50
I remember seeing the commercials for this and being
50:52
like wait isn't she a model? Right.
50:54
Yeah. And it's just so creepy and
50:58
subtle and it's proper Eggers just doing doing his doing his
51:03
thing. It's creepy.
51:04
Some people hate this movie. Some people love this movie.
51:08
I'm a lover and I'm very excited.
51:11
I can't wait to find out. If you would like to see
51:15
anything we talked about on the episode today, please go to
51:19
youtube.com slash at The Art of Costume and subscribe.
51:25
We post basically, well, I should say, Daniel shows off all
51:29
of the costumes that we talked about on these episodes.
51:31
And as always, follow us on Instagram at The Art of Costume
51:34
Pod, TikTok at The Art of Costume.
51:36
And of course, you can always send us an e-mail at
51:38
theartofcostume@gmail.com. Let us know your thoughts.
51:41
Let us know about that dress that Bonnie wore.
51:44
Elizabeth, I cannot wait to see you when you visit from the
51:47
great swing state of Pennsylvania.
51:50
Don't. I know it.
51:52
On October 5th at La Comic Con. Thank you everyone for
51:56
listening. Thank.
51:57
You everybody have a fantastic week.