Latest / The You Project / #1569 You & Your Environment - Mary Van Lambaart

Transcript

#1569 You & Your Environment - Mary Van Lambaart · The You Project

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Gay Team, It's the U Project, It's Jumbo, It's Craig,
• 0:03
  Speaker 1: Anthony Harper, It's Meyer's Van Lambert. On the other side,
• 0:06
  Speaker 1: they're high. Here you go in Oh, really good, new.
• 0:12
  Speaker 2: Fabulous, absolutely fabulous.
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: It's bloody at one point thirty two in Melbs on Saturday,
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: and it's it's a bit precipitious out there. It is
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: raining its little bottom off the trees. My trees are
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: rejoicing and clapping their little leaves together because they're getting hydrated.
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: But I don't want to winge about the weather because
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: I love the weather. But it's certainly winter is here,
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: mes it is.
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  Speaker 2: I was only saying something to someone yesterday that we
• 0:41
  Speaker 2: really haven't had that much rain, not like what's typical
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  Speaker 2: for the winter. So you've got to take the good
• 0:47
  Speaker 2: with the bad.
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: Oh, it must be the global warming, stop it. You
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: know what I did before, I've been running every day
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: for the last week or so, which is a new ink.
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: I run periodically, and I do the thing that I
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: tell most people not to do, and that is I'm
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  Speaker 1: somewhat inconsistent with my running. But you know, I don't
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  Speaker 1: want to run too much or too far because I
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: want to hold onto a bit of muscle, and also
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: doing mountains of running when you're sixty is not awesome
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  Speaker 1: for your skeleton, but a bit of running it's good,
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  Speaker 1: you know, the old six year old joints and shit.
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  Speaker 1: But I went. I put on a little running shoes,
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  Speaker 1: my little high performance running shoes before because I'm a
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  Speaker 1: fucking I'm a ninja, I'm stealth. I just moved through
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  Speaker 1: the urban landscape like a fucking movie character. Anyway, I
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: put on a little special running shoes and I stepped
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  Speaker 1: outside and it was raining, so I stepped back inside
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  Speaker 1: like a big baby, and then I went, what the fuck?
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: Then I just went and ran in the rain for
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  Speaker 1: about I don't know, two k's, no three, two and
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  Speaker 1: a half k's like just a fifteen minute plot. But
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: I've got to tell you. I ran in just a
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  Speaker 1: T shirt, shorts and runners, obviously, and I fucking loved it.
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: One of my favorite things being a kid, which I
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  Speaker 1: don't know why. I was a weird child. I was
• 2:07
  Speaker 1: an only child. I spent probably too much time alone.
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  Speaker 1: I had some really quirky fucking things that I did.
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  Speaker 1: When I said, but I used to love running in
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  Speaker 1: the rain, and I still love it. I love it. Well.
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  Speaker 2: You know, this is going back a few years ago now,
• 2:23
  Speaker 2: and it was one of your weekends away at Wilson's Prom.
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  Speaker 2: I don't know if you remember it, but I remember
• 2:33
  Speaker 2: before I went that I'd had a shower and all
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  Speaker 2: those sorts of things before after work and headed your direction,
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  Speaker 2: and the weather just continuously got worse and worse. And
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  Speaker 2: I think I was with Jane actually, and as we
• 2:48
  Speaker 2: were getting closer to Wilson's Prom, I was starting to
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  Speaker 2: smile a little bit more broadly because I was thinking,
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  Speaker 2: the weather's just too bad. We're not going to be
• 2:54
  Speaker 2: doing too much exercise outside. And the Friday night it
• 3:00
  Speaker 2: was absolutely pouring down and the wind was intense, and
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  Speaker 2: I think it was about ten o'clock or ten thirty,
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  Speaker 2: and you went, right, We're going out for a walk,
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  Speaker 2: and I was like, what the fuck? And I loved it,
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  Speaker 2: loved it, And then really I still do it today
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  Speaker 2: where I get up and I walk, and I love
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  Speaker 2: the days where it's you know, really wet and windy.
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  Speaker 2: It makes you feel alive, you know, That's how I
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  Speaker 2: feel anyway. So you broke the you broke the mold.
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  Speaker 2: So and I've loved it ever since. So there you go.
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  Speaker 1: I feel like I feel like when I'm walking in rain,
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  Speaker 1: and this feels this is I don't know, maybe it
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  Speaker 1: sounds silly about it doesn't to me. When I'm walking
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  Speaker 1: in the rain or I'm running in rain, I feel
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  Speaker 1: like I'm stepping into nature because it's like there's I'm
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  Speaker 1: straight straight away, I'm wet and the sky has made
• 3:56
  Speaker 1: me wet, or the rain has made me wet. And
• 4:00
  Speaker 1: I did this before I uh, in fact, before I
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  Speaker 1: set up my first gym, which was in nineteen nineties,
• 4:08
  Speaker 1: so this is one million years ago. In the eighties,
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  Speaker 1: I used to work at a gym in hamp and
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  Speaker 1: shout out to track Side back in the old days,
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  Speaker 1: and Mike Thornbro my boss, the great Mike Thornber, who
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  Speaker 1: still lives around the corner. I think. Anyway, I started peteeing,
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  Speaker 1: and you know, I was the gym manager at twenty
• 4:28
  Speaker 1: two or three, so I was managing the gym. I
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  Speaker 1: don't know how the fuck I got that gig. I
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  Speaker 1: think it was just because I could. I was a
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  Speaker 1: little mildly, you know, charming and likable, but fucking hopeless
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  Speaker 1: from a business perspective. But anyway, also I was honest,
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  Speaker 1: which is also good I think in business if you're
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  Speaker 1: the business owner and you're employing someone. But I used
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  Speaker 1: to you know, my PE team was just kicking off,
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  Speaker 1: and every Saturday Mays I used to train what started
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  Speaker 1: out as four ladies who were models who worked for
• 5:01
  Speaker 1: a company called I think it was called Panash. Anyway,
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  Speaker 1: they were these four girls that I used to train
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  Speaker 1: two or three times a week. But we used to
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  Speaker 1: do this Saturday morning session at eight am, and we'd
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  Speaker 1: meet and we'd often be outside the gym, like we'd
• 5:18
  Speaker 1: meet outside the gym, then we'd go train outside. We
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  Speaker 1: didn't train on Saturdays in and if it was rayin
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  Speaker 1: Haler shine with train right. And then a few other
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  Speaker 1: people said a few other ladies said, you know, oh,
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  Speaker 1: what's that group. I said, it's not really a group.
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  Speaker 1: It's a private kind of session. And then the girls,
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  Speaker 1: the ladies who were my clients, said, you know, if
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  Speaker 1: other people want to join, we don't care for the
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  Speaker 1: Saturday because we just go and train at the beach
• 5:44
  Speaker 1: because the gym's three AUNDI made us from the beach.
• 5:47
  Speaker 1: And anyway, that they're not two short stories somewhat laborious stories.
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  Speaker 1: But that grew from these four women that I trained
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  Speaker 1: to up to regularly two one hundred people, right really, yeah, yeah,
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  Speaker 1: yeah yeah. And we actually did a good Friday session
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  Speaker 1: with that group on a Friday though at the Hampton
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  Speaker 1: Beach and I had one hundred and thirty people and
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  Speaker 1: we gave the money to the Royal Children's Hospital Appeal. Right. So,
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  Speaker 1: but when people came to the group, I would, you know,
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  Speaker 1: we would intro them and I'd kind of say, everyone,
• 6:25
  Speaker 1: this is mayors, mayors everyone, and I'd kind of give
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  Speaker 1: the newbies to the group a little bit of a
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  Speaker 1: snapshot of what was what it was about and what
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  Speaker 1: they're in for. And then I would hand over to
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  Speaker 1: the group and I would say is there anything you
• 6:40
  Speaker 1: want to tell meres and they would all go to meyors,
• 6:44
  Speaker 1: your fucking waterproof, right. And so if it was forty degrees,
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  Speaker 1: if it was three degrees, if it was hailing, if
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  Speaker 1: it was rain, we would go. We would train. We
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  Speaker 1: would train through the tracks at the top of the beach.
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  Speaker 1: We would train sometimes at a footy over or a park,
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  Speaker 1: but most of the time we trained at the beach.
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  Speaker 1: We often got in the water. We always got wet, messy,
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  Speaker 1: dirty sandy, and because it was so like not polished,
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  Speaker 1: it was so and it wasn't brutal like we hurt
• 7:14
  Speaker 1: people or but it was you know, what was funny
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  Speaker 1: was because obviously the gym is in bayside Melbourne, so
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  Speaker 1: you've got all these Hampton Brighton and sandring Ham and
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  Speaker 1: black Rock people, you know, pulling up in their range
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  Speaker 1: rovers and then fucking you know, crawling on their hands
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  Speaker 1: and knees, doing leopard crawls in the soft, wet sand
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  Speaker 1: and fucking loving it. You know. It's like, I feel
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  Speaker 1: like that's gone astray in the last decade or two.
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  Speaker 1: Is that that, you know, getting down and dirty and
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  Speaker 1: you know, getting rain on you and getting dirt on
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  Speaker 1: you and fucking getting in some wet, sluppy sand and
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  Speaker 1: fucking getting in the ocean. And there's something to be
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  Speaker 1: said for you know, and I know most of us
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  Speaker 1: listening to this, me and you included, we live in suburbia,
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  Speaker 1: but just being able to you know, put your big
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  Speaker 1: toe back in nature by walking in the rain, or
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  Speaker 1: you know, going down to the beach, which I go
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  Speaker 1: down nearly every day in my life. I go the
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  Speaker 1: beach AT's eight hundred meters from where I'm sitting, and
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  Speaker 1: I always walk in bare feet, like always, even if
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  Speaker 1: I wear shoes down there, I take my shoes off, yep,
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  Speaker 1: and I walk in bare feet. And there's something like,
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  Speaker 1: especially in these days of I know I'm talking too much.
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  Speaker 1: I'll shut up after this. I just had a self
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  Speaker 1: awareness moment. I apologize. But you know, like in these
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  Speaker 1: days where every second person is, you know, struggling understandably
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  Speaker 1: with mental health, emotional health, you know, like I thinking anxiety, depression, sadness, loneliness, isolation, disconnection,
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  Speaker 1: you know, confusion, blah blah blah, all of these human things.
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  Speaker 1: Like sometimes the answer to the psychology is through the
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  Speaker 1: physiology of nature and human you know, feet in the sand,
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  Speaker 1: feet in the ocean, body in the ocean, rain on
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  Speaker 1: the head. You know. I sit outside in my garden,
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  Speaker 1: which I love, and I have this chair and I sit,
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  Speaker 1: I pull the chair up to one of my trees
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  Speaker 1: and I put my feet on the tree. And so
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  Speaker 1: if I'm on the phone or I'm reading a book,
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  Speaker 1: my feet are on nature, you know, versus just on
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  Speaker 1: you know, I don't know, yeah, or just in a
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  Speaker 1: pair of shoes. So yeah, for sure, there's something to
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  Speaker 1: be said for that.
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  Speaker 2: Well, you know, I suppose being a country girl, there's that.
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  Speaker 2: And you know, just brought a new apartment and the
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  Speaker 2: big thing for me was having outdoor space and a
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  Speaker 2: good size outdoor space. So because environment is everything, you know,
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  Speaker 2: and I don't sit inside very much at all. So
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  Speaker 2: the inside space, yes, it's important and all those sorts
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  Speaker 2: of things, but my external space is far more important
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  Speaker 2: to me. So I would sit outside. Actually, when I
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  Speaker 2: was talking to you earlier, I was actually sitting outside
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  Speaker 2: in the rain, so you know, having a coffee and
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  Speaker 2: looking at the ocean because I can see the ocean
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  Speaker 2: for where I'm at, So that's my you know, that's
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  Speaker 2: my space rather than being inside.
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  Speaker 1: Do you think that people think about, you know, the
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  Speaker 1: not just their external environment as in you know, suburbia, geography.
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  Speaker 1: Can I see the ocean, but even like the environment
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  Speaker 1: that they work in. Like you've been in my office, right, everyone,
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  Speaker 1: not everyone, but nearly everyone who comes into my office goes,
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  Speaker 1: I fucking love your office because it's just a nice energy.
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  Speaker 2: It's beautiful energy.
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  Speaker 1: There's big, beautiful comfy chairs, there's this awesome black carpet
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  Speaker 1: that you can just sqwitch it into and three big
• 11:02
  Speaker 1: windows and all you can see. You can't see suburbia.
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  Speaker 1: You can just see trees. And I don't know, there's
• 11:08
  Speaker 1: something nice about but when I go, for example, to Monash,
• 11:13
  Speaker 1: which is I love Monash, but like my cubicle, you know,
• 11:18
  Speaker 1: like I have a cubicle, but fuck my cubicle, no disrespect,
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  Speaker 1: you know, like it ain't the same like me doing
• 11:27
  Speaker 1: the exact same thing where I'm at right now versus
• 11:32
  Speaker 1: in a you know, a one meter by six hundred
• 11:36
  Speaker 1: mil cubicle with six hundred mil high walls and I
• 11:40
  Speaker 1: can't see anyone and no one can see me unless
• 11:43
  Speaker 1: I'm standing and I'm looking at like timber or not
• 11:48
  Speaker 1: even timber, like fucking lamanex or something. Yeah. It just
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  Speaker 1: like where I'm working, even if it's an internal environment,
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  Speaker 1: it really impacts everything from whether not like I'm happy
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: or not necessarily sad, but like my energy levels, my creativity,
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  Speaker 1: my ability to focus and be present, you know.
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  Speaker 2: Absolutely, I mean, you know, internal spaces are so important
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  Speaker 2: to create a space of calmness and beauty is what
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  Speaker 2: I believe. And you know, even things like the color
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  Speaker 2: on the wall or the lighting in the room can
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  Speaker 2: have a significant impact on us obviously psychologically and physiologically,
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  Speaker 2: and so there needs to be investment into creating beautiful
• 12:45
  Speaker 2: internal spaces. But I think also those external spaces need
• 12:52
  Speaker 2: to also kind of marry up with or reflect what
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  Speaker 2: it is that brings us a sense of peace but
• 13:04
  Speaker 2: also enjoyment, because you know, you know, I've just been
• 13:09
  Speaker 2: renovating and wall color is important for me. You know,
• 13:14
  Speaker 2: creating a sense of warmth in the space is important
• 13:17
  Speaker 2: for me. Having my artwork up on the wall. It
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  Speaker 2: brings me joy and you know, it's like a feast
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  Speaker 2: for the eyes and the soul in a sense, you know.
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  Speaker 2: And so creating that space of feeling like when you
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  Speaker 2: come to my space that it's really comfortable, and sitting
• 13:37
  Speaker 2: on the couch is like having a hug. You know,
• 13:39
  Speaker 2: we're sitting in the couch, not on a couch, if
• 13:42
  Speaker 2: you know what I mean. So all of those things
• 13:46
  Speaker 2: are really important and need time and consideration, and you know,
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  Speaker 2: and there's money involved, there's no two ways about that.
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  Speaker 2: But and having beautiful you don't have to have a
• 13:57
  Speaker 2: lot of things, but things that means something to you,
• 14:01
  Speaker 2: that ground you, I think are really important.
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  Speaker 1: Well, you know what I noticed. I know that you're well,
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: I know that you tell on is truth anyway, but
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  Speaker 1: I know this to be true for you because you
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: and I are doing a little bit of work together
• 14:15
  Speaker 1: with an organization we can't mention, but it rhymes with
• 14:18
  Speaker 1: Big Pole and and but what I know. What I
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: noticed is your your space, your your headquarters, your HQ
• 14:32
  Speaker 1: is in the city, and it's in it doesn't matter
• 14:36
  Speaker 1: where it is, but it's it's this big, beautiful open
• 14:40
  Speaker 1: And do you know what I noticed this is I
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: don't know, like i'd never been there until a couple
• 14:44
  Speaker 1: of weeks ago when we first did our first full
• 14:47
  Speaker 1: day with Big Pole, Big Toll. No, no, not at all.
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: No one will figure that out. But what I noticed
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: was when I went a first walked in and I
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: wasn't I wasn't looking for this. So this is how
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: effective it is. It smelt great. I'm like, what is that?
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: It smelt great. It smelt I don't know, like almost
• 15:13
  Speaker 1: like therapeutic, like you know when you go into those spars.
• 15:16
  Speaker 1: I don't know, but it smelt nice. It was warm,
• 15:20
  Speaker 1: but not hot, right, it wasn't freezing at what like
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: it was the right temperature, the roof is really high,
• 15:28
  Speaker 1: so it doesn't feel claustrophobic. And I was thinking, this
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: is such a good energy space. And then I had
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: the privilege of working there all day with you and
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: the group, and I'm like, oh, yeah, this is an
• 15:44
  Speaker 1: easy place to work in. And it's funny how like
• 15:49
  Speaker 1: when you think about being good at your job. You know,
• 15:52
  Speaker 1: whatever your job is, whether or not's talking to a
• 15:54
  Speaker 1: group of humans for a day, as you and I
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: did on that day, and we're doing also next week.
• 15:58
  Speaker 1: But you think about that, you know, people would go
• 16:02
  Speaker 1: People think about understandably things like have you got your content,
• 16:05
  Speaker 1: have you got your slides? What are you going to say?
• 16:09
  Speaker 1: Do you have any skill? What are you going to wear?
• 16:12
  Speaker 1: You do your background on the group and all of
• 16:14
  Speaker 1: that so and all of those things are crucial, but
• 16:18
  Speaker 1: you don't really think about what impact the environment will
• 16:23
  Speaker 1: have on your energy, your mindset and your performance. Like
• 16:29
  Speaker 1: it is such a it is you created such a
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: good space. And when I go into some companies, I'm like,
• 16:36
  Speaker 1: this would be a fucking horrible place to work. Not
• 16:38
  Speaker 1: because the bus is bad or not because the culture bad,
• 16:42
  Speaker 1: but this joint is depressing, suppressing, yep, for sure. You
• 16:48
  Speaker 1: and I were talking about not that organization, but you
• 16:51
  Speaker 1: went into a place we'll say once upon a time,
• 16:55
  Speaker 1: and once upon a time when you're in this place,
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: I won't say what, because I don't want anyone to
• 16:59
  Speaker 1: figure it out, but you said to me yesterday, oh
• 17:02
  Speaker 1: my god, it would be horrible to work there. Yeah.
• 17:06
  Speaker 2: It was just so over stimulating from the aspect that
• 17:11
  Speaker 2: there was a huge amount of lights. It was an
• 17:15
  Speaker 2: incredibly white, stark space. You know, even the tables were
• 17:20
  Speaker 2: too light, so therefore the reflection of the light was
• 17:24
  Speaker 2: bouncing off the table. And not only was the space
• 17:29
  Speaker 2: very you know, the hospital like, you know, the heat
• 17:36
  Speaker 2: in the in the space was just overwhelmingly suppressive, you know,
• 17:43
  Speaker 2: so being able to when you're presenting as you know,
• 17:48
  Speaker 2: you're moving around, you're talking, there's a certain amount of energy.
• 17:51
  Speaker 2: Your body's sort of on alert, you know, because you're
• 17:55
  Speaker 2: you're also taking in what's happening in the room and
• 17:57
  Speaker 2: the conversation and being switched on all the time, so
• 18:02
  Speaker 2: you're running at a particular level and your body is
• 18:06
  Speaker 2: at a different heat, you know than somebody sitting down.
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  Speaker 2: And I found that after I'd finished being there, after
• 18:13
  Speaker 2: a couple of hours, I was utterly exhausted, but I
• 18:18
  Speaker 2: felt like I lost three kilos in weight because it
• 18:21
  Speaker 2: was just oppressive, the weight, the heat was just awful,
• 18:28
  Speaker 2: and the environment was just too stark and intensive. And
• 18:33
  Speaker 2: so when I come back to what sort of environments
• 18:37
  Speaker 2: do you want to create, and when you're tackling some
• 18:40
  Speaker 2: issues that may have emotional attachment to it, it's not
• 18:44
  Speaker 2: the most optimal environment to be able to have a
• 18:48
  Speaker 2: sense of you know, psychological or physical safety. It felt
• 18:53
  Speaker 2: like you had to be on alert and you know,
• 18:57
  Speaker 2: almost vibrating in a sense of anxiety and streps because
• 19:02
  Speaker 2: it was so intense, so intense. So, yeah, environment is
• 19:08
  Speaker 2: everything and was everything even when I was teaching, you know,
• 19:13
  Speaker 2: having the classroom, you know, at a particular temperature, having
• 19:17
  Speaker 2: it a certain lighting in the room. You know, what
• 19:20
  Speaker 2: did the room look like for the children to come
• 19:22
  Speaker 2: into and four parents to enter into. What did we
• 19:27
  Speaker 2: do in the space to make it beautiful? What was
• 19:29
  Speaker 2: their contribution to that space? All of those elements. To
• 19:34
  Speaker 2: feel a sense of, you know, being relaxed and being
• 19:39
  Speaker 2: calm and being supported is crucial, crucial.
• 19:45
  Speaker 1: I used to I used to have this awareness around
• 19:49
  Speaker 1: my back. I'm stepping back into the Harpers days for
• 19:51
  Speaker 1: those of you who don't know me well and you're
• 19:54
  Speaker 1: newish to the show. So I owned I owned gyms
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: for twenty five years which were not very creative called Harper's,
• 20:02
  Speaker 1: and I also managed gyms before that. But one of
• 20:06
  Speaker 1: the things that people probably have most of our listeners
• 20:10
  Speaker 1: would never have thought of is this. I used to
• 20:13
  Speaker 1: train a lot of women. Like seventy to eighty percent
• 20:15
  Speaker 1: of my total clients were women. Now, a lot of
• 20:19
  Speaker 1: the women that I trained were not traditional gym goers.
• 20:24
  Speaker 1: They just got referred to me because they wanted to,
• 20:27
  Speaker 1: you know, get in shape whatever that meant changed their
• 20:29
  Speaker 1: body in some way. Right, Yeah, So I had all
• 20:32
  Speaker 1: of these women who were not and blokes, but most
• 20:36
  Speaker 1: of like were not. Then I was twenty five, twenty
• 20:39
  Speaker 1: six and I was, you know, fucking buzzing, But a
• 20:42
  Speaker 1: lot of my clients were fifty. They weren't me. They
• 20:45
  Speaker 1: weren't a version of me. They didn't want to be me,
• 20:47
  Speaker 1: and I don't blame them. So I'm working with a
• 20:49
  Speaker 1: lot of people that are somewhere in the ballpark have
• 20:51
  Speaker 1: double my age. They're not natural gym goers. They're not athletes.
• 20:54
  Speaker 1: They don't want to be on the bodybuilding stage. And
• 20:58
  Speaker 1: they would come into the gym, men and women, and
• 21:00
  Speaker 1: it wasn't while they wanted to be there, and I
• 21:03
  Speaker 1: could kind of make it okay for them. It wasn't
• 21:08
  Speaker 1: their natural habitat and it wasn't a place that they
• 21:12
  Speaker 1: loved to be because it was very testosterony, right, And
• 21:19
  Speaker 1: a lot of the gym equipment was black or gray
• 21:22
  Speaker 1: or black and gray, so metal frames, gray, black whites,
• 21:28
  Speaker 1: you know. So it was quite dark and there wasn't
• 21:32
  Speaker 1: a lot of it wasn't very enticing it. There wasn't
• 21:35
  Speaker 1: a lot of color. And so anyway, I when I
• 21:39
  Speaker 1: set up Harper's the first, you know, my first gym
• 21:43
  Speaker 1: or Pete Studios, really, I bought all of my gym
• 21:50
  Speaker 1: equipment and I had it all powder coat it, which
• 21:54
  Speaker 1: is what they do to metal, not yet which different colors.
• 21:59
  Speaker 1: So I, lily had all the frames. I had pink,
• 22:02
  Speaker 1: I had purple, I had light blue, I had white,
• 22:05
  Speaker 1: I had yellow, I had orange. So if you walked
• 22:09
  Speaker 1: up it to my gym, it looked like fucking a
• 22:13
  Speaker 1: child's play center, you know. So all the upholstery was
• 22:16
  Speaker 1: black and all the Obviously the carpet was the same,
• 22:19
  Speaker 1: but it was just like people like, oh my god,
• 22:23
  Speaker 1: hell like it didn't look like a traditional dark, stark intimidating.
• 22:29
  Speaker 1: And because most of my clients were women, I mean,
• 22:33
  Speaker 1: I'm happy to train in a fucking dungeon with no
• 22:35
  Speaker 1: mirrors and no noise and dust, right' I thrive in
• 22:40
  Speaker 1: that shit. So I didn't need it, but my clients
• 22:44
  Speaker 1: loved it, and I made them just you know, we're
• 22:48
  Speaker 1: still in a gym full of gym equipment. It just
• 22:51
  Speaker 1: happens to be somewhat atypical from the norm. And that
• 22:55
  Speaker 1: was one of the things that people would say, I
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: love the colors. I love the colors. It didn't particularly
• 23:01
  Speaker 1: go It's not like there was any rhyme or reason. Yeah,
• 23:05
  Speaker 1: it was never going to win a fucking award for
• 23:07
  Speaker 1: the daycoor or for the It's never going to be
• 23:09
  Speaker 1: in home beautiful, but sucho logically, But you think, as
• 23:15
  Speaker 1: an employer or a coach or anyone, I think, I think,
• 23:22
  Speaker 1: how can I create a space? And I did a
• 23:24
  Speaker 1: thing with fern Wood, not last week, the week before,
• 23:27
  Speaker 1: and the title of so, by the way, Fernwood, I'm
• 23:31
  Speaker 1: not just saying this because they pay me to do gigs,
• 23:33
  Speaker 1: but I really like them as an organization. There's no
• 23:37
  Speaker 1: perfect organization, but they do a pretty fucking good job, right.
• 23:40
  Speaker 1: And I had to do a keynote called Irresistible Culture,
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: building an irresistible culture, and like I spoke about just
• 23:51
  Speaker 1: creating a place, whether that's a place, a physical place,
• 23:55
  Speaker 1: a room, a gym, a center, or an organization that
• 24:01
  Speaker 1: in general terms, people want to be in. You know,
• 24:05
  Speaker 1: Like my question is not even with my trainers, it
• 24:10
  Speaker 1: didn't used to be necessarily how great was the workout,
• 24:14
  Speaker 1: although that matters, you know, anatomy and physiology and did
• 24:18
  Speaker 1: you set the bike seat at the right height? And
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: did you teach them how to do the deadlift? But
• 24:22
  Speaker 1: all those things are really important, But what overrides all
• 24:26
  Speaker 1: of that is, Hey, do they want to come back?
• 24:29
  Speaker 1: Do they like this place? Do they feel, if not comfortable,
• 24:34
  Speaker 1: heading towards comfortable. And you can ask that same question,
• 24:38
  Speaker 1: like with your space that you have where you bring
• 24:41
  Speaker 1: people into for training and teaching and coaching and all
• 24:44
  Speaker 1: of those things. Do people like being in the space?
• 24:48
  Speaker 1: Do they want to come back? And part of that's
• 24:50
  Speaker 1: you and your energy, but also part of it, and
• 24:53
  Speaker 1: I think that's a really overlooked variable in building culture
• 24:59
  Speaker 1: and build an environment that people want to be in.
• 25:02
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and I suppose you know, for where I am
• 25:07
  Speaker 2: being in the city, it's a bit of a concrete jungle,
• 25:11
  Speaker 2: you know, and those workspaces that most people go into
• 25:15
  Speaker 2: are pretty much, you know, a carbon copy of each
• 25:20
  Speaker 2: other to a certain degree. And this is so different
• 25:24
  Speaker 2: because there's so much light there, so that the windows
• 25:27
  Speaker 2: are huge, and the space is big and broad, and
• 25:31
  Speaker 2: so there isn't that feeling of being claustrophobic, and you
• 25:35
  Speaker 2: can see outside and there's a balcony and all of
• 25:38
  Speaker 2: those sorts of things. So you know, finding the right
• 25:42
  Speaker 2: spot has taken some time to land here, but it's
• 25:47
  Speaker 2: a nice space to actually work in. Energetically, it's a
• 25:51
  Speaker 2: nice space to be in.
• 25:53
  Speaker 1: And also well and also you've got a bunch of
• 25:55
  Speaker 1: plants and if they are do you know what I mean?
• 25:58
  Speaker 1: I think having you know, not that I've everybody needs
• 26:00
  Speaker 1: to but I don't know. I'm a little bit addicted
• 26:03
  Speaker 1: because you're a country girl. I'm a country boy. But
• 26:05
  Speaker 1: also there's another I mean, this is very this is
• 26:10
  Speaker 1: still related, but somewhat different. I think another thing that
• 26:17
  Speaker 1: we don't consider much, which really impacts on how you
• 26:22
  Speaker 1: feel when you work, how well you can focus, how productive, proactive,
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: effective you are, whatever you want to call it. But
• 26:30
  Speaker 1: the working experience for me anyway, is what you're wearing now. I,
• 26:37
  Speaker 1: as you know, under sufferance, will put on fucking jeans
• 26:41
  Speaker 1: and boots. That for me is like black tie, right yea.
• 26:45
  Speaker 1: But even then I'm in a black T shirt and like,
• 26:50
  Speaker 1: right now, I'm going to show you. I'm going to
• 26:51
  Speaker 1: lean back. I just lifted up my barefoot like I
• 26:58
  Speaker 1: spend my life in shorts, T shirt and bare feet
• 27:01
  Speaker 1: like I only I would never put on a pair
• 27:04
  Speaker 1: of long pants in my life unless I had to,
• 27:07
  Speaker 1: which is not to say they're bad. I just am
• 27:09
  Speaker 1: not comfortable in them. I am like, if I come
• 27:12
  Speaker 1: and sit in here in a T shirt or a
• 27:15
  Speaker 1: single that PERI shorts, bare feet, that's my happy space,
• 27:18
  Speaker 1: that's where my body feels good. But if I had
• 27:21
  Speaker 1: to go to a place each day, and this is why,
• 27:24
  Speaker 1: and I've shared this many times, I realized when I
• 27:27
  Speaker 1: was twenty ish that I didn't want a job. I
• 27:29
  Speaker 1: wanted to work, but I didn't want a job right,
• 27:31
  Speaker 1: I didn't want to work with someone like if I
• 27:34
  Speaker 1: had been brought in some reality where for whatever reason,
• 27:37
  Speaker 1: I had to me personally put on a suit and
• 27:41
  Speaker 1: a shirt and a tie and fucking black leather shoes
• 27:45
  Speaker 1: and drive into an office and oh I couldn't have
• 27:49
  Speaker 1: done it. I mean if I guess if I had to.
• 27:51
  Speaker 1: But you know, but that and I think that's understanding,
• 27:57
  Speaker 1: like and it's not wrong either, by the way, it's
• 28:00
  Speaker 1: just like, well, that doesn't work for me. If I
• 28:02
  Speaker 1: had to, I could do that. But you know, like
• 28:06
  Speaker 1: I always used to think, how can I Like, I'm
• 28:09
  Speaker 1: not lazy. I want to work, but I just want
• 28:11
  Speaker 1: to do the thing that I want to do, keep
• 28:14
  Speaker 1: fully realizing that there'll be shit that I need to
• 28:16
  Speaker 1: do that it ain't fun. But for the most part,
• 28:20
  Speaker 1: so I basically just built my own career, like I
• 28:24
  Speaker 1: just built this. Like there wasn't personal training, there wasn't
• 28:27
  Speaker 1: a course, there wasn't an accreditation, there wasn't insurance, there
• 28:32
  Speaker 1: wasn't an industry. But I knew that people would pay
• 28:35
  Speaker 1: me back then like forty bucks an hour, which seems
• 28:38
  Speaker 1: fuck all now, but it was in six I was
• 28:41
  Speaker 1: the king. I'm like fuck.
• 28:45
  Speaker 2: I know, there's so many multi layers to having a
• 28:53
  Speaker 2: sense of feeling comfortable in yourself. And you know, we
• 28:59
  Speaker 2: can think about how we're thinking physically or mentally, sorry,
• 29:03
  Speaker 2: and a lot of that is driven by how we're
• 29:05
  Speaker 2: feeling physically. And you know, I'm not a huge fan
• 29:11
  Speaker 2: of trying to say to people that you've got to
• 29:14
  Speaker 2: look this way all that way. I think people do
• 29:17
  Speaker 2: the best work when they're in their comfort zone and
• 29:21
  Speaker 2: what gives them a sense of calmness. And you know,
• 29:25
  Speaker 2: if that means that they're wearing a tracksuit to get
• 29:28
  Speaker 2: the job done, so be it. So you know, at
• 29:31
  Speaker 2: the end of the day, it's not what they're wearing
• 29:34
  Speaker 2: that matters the most, it's what are they doing? And
• 29:39
  Speaker 2: how am I whether I'm in an educational role or
• 29:43
  Speaker 2: whether I'm in a leadership role working with people, how
• 29:48
  Speaker 2: can I support that person to get the best potential
• 29:51
  Speaker 2: outcomes for them in the role that they're doing, So,
• 29:57
  Speaker 2: how can I invest in them? What's my service to
• 30:00
  Speaker 2: them in order to do that and encouraging them to
• 30:04
  Speaker 2: have a beautiful space. And you know, if I know myself,
• 30:09
  Speaker 2: when I'm really busy and my desk becomes cluttered. It
• 30:14
  Speaker 2: is the least desired space for me to sit right right,
• 30:19
  Speaker 2: you know, I don't want to go near it because
• 30:22
  Speaker 2: I don't like it. I like organization. I like things
• 30:25
  Speaker 2: to be pulled away. I like a clean space to
• 30:28
  Speaker 2: be at. I want to be able to see all
• 30:30
  Speaker 2: the other beautiful things that are around me, you know.
• 30:32
  Speaker 2: I don't want to sit in the middle of a mess.
• 30:36
  Speaker 2: You know. And sometimes psychologically, depending on how busy it is,
• 30:39
  Speaker 2: that sometimes happens at your desk, it's hard to come
• 30:43
  Speaker 2: back to face it.
• 30:44
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I think I think there's a real I mean,
• 30:47
  Speaker 1: obviously in the last you know, the last five years,
• 30:52
  Speaker 1: especially because of COVID and you know, things were changing
• 30:55
  Speaker 1: a little bit. But obviously there's a lot of people
• 30:57
  Speaker 1: now working from home, although and that's no elation, you know,
• 31:01
  Speaker 1: but also there's a shift with people going back into
• 31:04
  Speaker 1: the workspace or a bit of both, you know, a
• 31:06
  Speaker 1: bit of a you know, split kind of thing. But
• 31:10
  Speaker 1: I think what is happening broadly is some traditions are
• 31:16
  Speaker 1: being challenged. Obviously, I mean obviously with the way that
• 31:21
  Speaker 1: we work in terms of technology now, but moreover comma
• 31:25
  Speaker 1: just with yeah, like the idea of well let's have
• 31:29
  Speaker 1: a space where if somebody wants to go sit in
• 31:31
  Speaker 1: a bean bag with their laptop in a pair of
• 31:34
  Speaker 1: shorts and T shirt. You know, Fuck, let's are they productive?
• 31:38
  Speaker 1: Are they doing the work? Are they? Well, yes, we'll
• 31:41
  Speaker 1: let them sit in the fucking bean bag. Like why
• 31:44
  Speaker 1: do we all have to be designated into fucking cubicles
• 31:47
  Speaker 1: or boxes in a suit? Like? Is this optimal for
• 31:51
  Speaker 1: creativity and productivity and enjoyment and culture and connection? Is
• 31:57
  Speaker 1: this the way that humans work best? Fuck? No, All right,
• 32:01
  Speaker 1: that doesn't mean we've got to go buy one hundred
• 32:03
  Speaker 1: bean bags, but maybe it means we've got to go
• 32:05
  Speaker 1: Look the way that we have done this for some
• 32:10
  Speaker 1: people is great or some is kind of acceptable, but
• 32:14
  Speaker 1: for some people it doesn't work. And I mean we
• 32:17
  Speaker 1: see that not just in the workplace, but in education,
• 32:21
  Speaker 1: you know. And that's not throwing the education system or
• 32:24
  Speaker 1: any teachers under the bus. You've been a teacher most
• 32:27
  Speaker 1: of your life, but it's understanding that. And I know
• 32:31
  Speaker 1: on the macro level with big organizations this is harder
• 32:35
  Speaker 1: to execute, But in small to medium sized businesses, I reckon,
• 32:41
  Speaker 1: you know, if I was going to go start and
• 32:43
  Speaker 1: I employed five hundred people. If I was going to
• 32:45
  Speaker 1: start a new business, I would do some things quite
• 32:49
  Speaker 1: I think I did not a bad job, but I
• 32:51
  Speaker 1: fucked things up for sure, that we all. But I
• 32:55
  Speaker 1: would now. You know, It's like Tiff who works for
• 32:59
  Speaker 1: me in a part time capacity right now. She generally
• 33:04
  Speaker 1: sits in on or edits three or four podcasts a
• 33:07
  Speaker 1: week of my seven now, and she gets paid a
• 33:11
  Speaker 1: set weekly wage, which is not terrible, not amazing, but
• 33:15
  Speaker 1: it's enough. Now if she happens to do all of
• 33:17
  Speaker 1: the work for the week on Monday morning and finishes
• 33:21
  Speaker 1: by two pm, and then she does nothing for the
• 33:24
  Speaker 1: next six and a half days, but she's done the
• 33:28
  Speaker 1: editing or whatever she I like. I don't care how
• 33:30
  Speaker 1: it's done. I just care. I don't care if you
• 33:33
  Speaker 1: do it all on one day and you get paid
• 33:35
  Speaker 1: a week's wage for that one that I don't care
• 33:37
  Speaker 1: because all I need is this stuff done. All I
• 33:40
  Speaker 1: care is that you do it well, Yes, how you
• 33:43
  Speaker 1: do it? Why would that bother me? If it bothers
• 33:46
  Speaker 1: me because you're sitting in a bean bag and not
• 33:48
  Speaker 1: at a desk, well then I'm the problem, you know,
• 33:51
  Speaker 1: That's right.
• 33:52
  Speaker 2: That's micromanaging. And I was reading something that two days ago,
• 33:58
  Speaker 2: and you know how there's their terms about quietly quitting,
• 34:02
  Speaker 2: and then there's another one that's talking about quietly holidaying
• 34:08
  Speaker 2: or quietly taking time off. And I think there's one
• 34:13
  Speaker 2: fairly big computer group that is in the press at
• 34:18
  Speaker 2: the moment because they're really wanting their employees to come
• 34:23
  Speaker 2: back into the office. They don't want them to be
• 34:25
  Speaker 2: working at home anymore. And they're up in arms about
• 34:29
  Speaker 2: the fact that some of their employees are going away
• 34:33
  Speaker 2: on a holiday. They're still working and they're still being productive,
• 34:38
  Speaker 2: but they're really resentful about the fact that they're doing
• 34:42
  Speaker 2: their work from fig or wherever they're at. And my
• 34:46
  Speaker 2: mindset is, how does it make any difference whether they're
• 34:50
  Speaker 2: at home or whether they're in vg, or if they're
• 34:55
  Speaker 2: anywhere else in the world. If they're doing the work,
• 34:59
  Speaker 2: where they do the work, how does that matter? If
• 35:03
  Speaker 2: they're if they're still producing and they're still doing and
• 35:06
  Speaker 2: they're loving their life because they're able to do the
• 35:09
  Speaker 2: work and still live a really engaging life. How am
• 35:15
  Speaker 2: I How am I losing as an employer?
• 35:18
  Speaker 1: What is what is the art? I mean, I don't
• 35:21
  Speaker 1: know who you talk I've got an idea, doesn't matter
• 35:23
  Speaker 1: who What is their argument, like, what is the alleged
• 35:26
  Speaker 1: problem that they have, like where?
• 35:30
  Speaker 2: Well, well, yeah, they were saying that, you know, they
• 35:33
  Speaker 2: feel like they're taking holidays on the company's time and
• 35:38
  Speaker 2: that they're not taking their say, scheduled holiday break and
• 35:42
  Speaker 2: being away from the workplace, so they feel like they're
• 35:45
  Speaker 2: paying for their employer's holiday. And I'm a bit like, well,
• 35:52
  Speaker 2: I don't see it in that perspective, because they're still
• 35:55
  Speaker 2: working and the location doesn't matter where they are in
• 36:01
  Speaker 2: their home or at a library or in fig or
• 36:06
  Speaker 2: at an airport, if they're still doing the work. They're
• 36:10
  Speaker 2: still doing the work. They're not on holidays, They're working
• 36:14
  Speaker 2: and producing, and I.
• 36:16
  Speaker 1: Think it just speaks to the fact that different people
• 36:19
  Speaker 1: work and thrive in different you know, environments. And you know,
• 36:24
  Speaker 1: it's like, I literally I could move to Queensland for
• 36:29
  Speaker 1: three months and apart from my speaking gigs, but in
• 36:33
  Speaker 1: terms of the podcast, in terms of my PhD consulting coaching,
• 36:38
  Speaker 1: you know, it would be I couldn't do everything, but
• 36:41
  Speaker 1: I could do most of it. And with my corporate stuff,
• 36:45
  Speaker 1: I just have to fly a bit more. But yeah,
• 36:47
  Speaker 1: but you know. But even then, it's like I did.
• 36:53
  Speaker 1: I did a series of talks for Hewlett Packard through COVID,
• 36:59
  Speaker 1: and I did, on average for I think it was
• 37:01
  Speaker 1: about a year, a bit over a year. I did
• 37:02
  Speaker 1: like one a month ish, And I was thinking, like
• 37:07
  Speaker 1: I did. I think it was forty two countries or
• 37:10
  Speaker 1: forty four countries at once, right, And so there was
• 37:14
  Speaker 1: like four and a half thousand people on the call. Wow,
• 37:18
  Speaker 1: And I was sitting not where I am now, I
• 37:20
  Speaker 1: was sitting in the studio downstairs. But I mean, how
• 37:23
  Speaker 1: crazy is that is that I am I'm doing a
• 37:28
  Speaker 1: live gig literally wearing what I'm wearing now, T shirt, shorts,
• 37:33
  Speaker 1: bare feet to four and a half thousand people. Yeah,
• 37:37
  Speaker 1: a very large organization. And I would, let's say, I
• 37:41
  Speaker 1: would talk from eleven a m. Till midday, i'd finish,
• 37:44
  Speaker 1: i'd sign off, we'd have a good time. I'd answer
• 37:45
  Speaker 1: a few questions. Obviously can't answer four thousand questions, but
• 37:49
  Speaker 1: you know, there's a moderator or an MC. And then
• 37:51
  Speaker 1: at twelve oh three, I'm up out of that seat
• 37:54
  Speaker 1: and I'm in the kitchen, which is six feet away,
• 37:56
  Speaker 1: making a cup of tea and nobody's missing out and
• 38:00
  Speaker 1: I'm getting paid reasonable dough. They're getting the convenience of
• 38:04
  Speaker 1: Craig harp alive into forty two or four countries, whatever
• 38:07
  Speaker 1: it was. Yeah, they can pay me way less than
• 38:11
  Speaker 1: if they needed to fly me too. Different, right, and
• 38:14
  Speaker 1: you go, you know what, the world's just different, works,
• 38:17
  Speaker 1: just different. The way that we deliver things, the way
• 38:20
  Speaker 1: that we sell things, the way that we buy things.
• 38:23
  Speaker 1: And I think some people are a little bit trapped
• 38:26
  Speaker 1: in tradition. And I think tradition's good to the point
• 38:30
  Speaker 1: where it's shit, you know.
• 38:34
  Speaker 2: I agree, I agree. Look, you know, I do think
• 38:38
  Speaker 2: sometimes depending upon what the actual work might be, and
• 38:45
  Speaker 2: sometimes you've got some people that do need to have
• 38:47
  Speaker 2: that human connectedness that they need to be in the
• 38:50
  Speaker 2: space with other people. I'm a little bit old school
• 38:53
  Speaker 2: like that, So I do like to be in a
• 38:56
  Speaker 2: physical space with some with people. Sometimes not all the time,
• 39:01
  Speaker 2: as you know, but so sometimes I think that depending
• 39:05
  Speaker 2: upon what it is, there may be a need to
• 39:08
  Speaker 2: bring people together. But do you need to do it
• 39:10
  Speaker 2: every single week? That would be questionable, you know. And
• 39:16
  Speaker 2: I do think that we do miss some of that
• 39:18
  Speaker 2: human interaction when we're doing zooms because people jump on
• 39:23
  Speaker 2: and they jump off, So there's none of that sort
• 39:26
  Speaker 2: of you know, cursory conversation that goes on either before
• 39:31
  Speaker 2: a meeting starts or at the meeting conclusion. And you know,
• 39:37
  Speaker 2: we become better and stronger when we've got somebody that
• 39:41
  Speaker 2: maybe is sitting next to us that is brighter and
• 39:43
  Speaker 2: more intelligent than what we are. So I feel like
• 39:47
  Speaker 2: there's a little bit that we can miss in not
• 39:50
  Speaker 2: being connected with other people. But I wouldn't say that
• 39:54
  Speaker 2: that has to be the definitive must be. I think
• 39:59
  Speaker 2: there's elements for all.
• 40:02
  Speaker 1: I've got a friend who's recently gone back to work
• 40:04
  Speaker 1: after a very long time, not at like working remotely
• 40:10
  Speaker 1: and a guy, and he absolutely loves it and it's
• 40:19
  Speaker 1: less convenient. But he said to me. I saw him
• 40:22
  Speaker 1: the other day and we were talking. He said, I
• 40:24
  Speaker 1: didn't realize that the impact that being by myself in
• 40:30
  Speaker 1: my house, you know, like yet sure convenient, but not
• 40:34
  Speaker 1: emotionally good, not psychologically good, you know, And you and me,
• 40:39
  Speaker 1: it's like, I live by myself, I have a studio
• 40:41
  Speaker 1: at home, in an office at home, but I need
• 40:48
  Speaker 1: to be around people, not all day every day, but
• 40:51
  Speaker 1: every morning I'm at the cafe, I'm there for at
• 40:54
  Speaker 1: least an hour and a half. I talked to people.
• 40:56
  Speaker 1: I often sit with people, and you know, blah blah blah.
• 40:59
  Speaker 1: Every day this which is online, of course, but also
• 41:02
  Speaker 1: every day I'm at the gym around humans for at
• 41:04
  Speaker 1: least an hour and a half. That like, there is
• 41:06
  Speaker 1: a fair bit of face to face. Even though I
• 41:09
  Speaker 1: do love working the way that I do and I
• 41:11
  Speaker 1: don't want to go sit in a cubicle. I would
• 41:14
  Speaker 1: go fucking nuts if I couldn't give someone a hug,
• 41:19
  Speaker 1: or talk shit, or have a copy with someone, or
• 41:21
  Speaker 1: be in a room with a human. Yeah, you know,
• 41:24
  Speaker 1: I think it's finding the you know that they say
• 41:28
  Speaker 1: in medicine it's all about the dose. I think in sociology.
• 41:32
  Speaker 1: I think in sociology it's all about the dose. You know,
• 41:36
  Speaker 1: those people that you love being with them for an hour,
• 41:38
  Speaker 1: but four hours fucking way too much.
• 41:42
  Speaker 2: It's a bit like vegi might some people. A little
• 41:44
  Speaker 2: bit goes a long way, and you love it while
• 41:47
  Speaker 2: you're doing it, but then you know energetically you've got
• 41:51
  Speaker 2: to step back from that because it's too exhausting to
• 41:54
  Speaker 2: stay in that space for an extended period of time.
• 41:57
  Speaker 1: You know, I wanted to I wanted to ask you something.
• 42:00
  Speaker 1: You were talking about a tech company before and on
• 42:02
  Speaker 1: the front of the Herald Son today. Yeah, I actually
• 42:05
  Speaker 1: when I was before I got a coffee. I haven't
• 42:08
  Speaker 1: read it. I've just glimpsed at it and scanned it.
• 42:11
  Speaker 1: But I wanted to talk to you about this. So
• 42:14
  Speaker 1: those of you don't know Mayores works in or just
• 42:17
  Speaker 1: give everyone the snapshot of what you currently do and
• 42:19
  Speaker 1: what you did. So we've probably got thirty percent of
• 42:22
  Speaker 1: our audience today don't know you. So okay, before I
• 42:25
  Speaker 1: opened the door on this conversation, give them context so
• 42:28
  Speaker 1: they know why the fuck I'm asking you what I'm
• 42:30
  Speaker 1: about to ask you, righty.
• 42:32
  Speaker 2: So I was in private business EARL when I was younger,
• 42:36
  Speaker 2: moved into the educational space and was an assistant PRINT
• 42:39
  Speaker 2: for over twenty years, and then stepped out of that space,
• 42:43
  Speaker 2: that that leadership role and run my own business again.
• 42:49
  Speaker 2: And I do just like physical first DAI training, I
• 42:52
  Speaker 2: do mental health first DAID training, same bit different obviously
• 42:57
  Speaker 2: to identify mental health issues. But I'm also and Indie,
• 43:00
  Speaker 2: a registered INDIAS provider which focuses predominantly on the early
• 43:05
  Speaker 2: years of child development, and you know disability supports and
• 43:12
  Speaker 2: psychological coaching.
• 43:14
  Speaker 1: And you worked with kids obviously, as you said, in
• 43:17
  Speaker 1: your teaching career which was decades long, and as an
• 43:20
  Speaker 1: assistant principal. But I also know that in many ways
• 43:25
  Speaker 1: you were kind of running the show. You wouldn't say that,
• 43:27
  Speaker 1: but I know that you were. And I also know
• 43:31
  Speaker 1: that you worked with and this is no disrespect because
• 43:34
  Speaker 1: you loved the kids and you loved the teachers, but
• 43:37
  Speaker 1: you worked with kids that really had challenges, who were
• 43:40
  Speaker 1: from families that really had challenges in a range of issues,
• 43:46
  Speaker 1: in a range of different ways. And I know that
• 43:50
  Speaker 1: while you loved that everything has a used by date,
• 43:55
  Speaker 1: and that you know, you just about killed yourself trying
• 43:58
  Speaker 1: to save others, so to speak. But off the back
• 44:03
  Speaker 1: of that, I just want it. So today I'm the
• 44:05
  Speaker 1: herald son They've got I don't know if you can
• 44:08
  Speaker 1: see that. No, you can't. It says I'm trying to No,
• 44:13
  Speaker 1: it says fast book, and it's got the blue Facebook
• 44:16
  Speaker 1: f Yeah, so it's a play on words Facebook fast Book,
• 44:20
  Speaker 1: and it says despite suicide's body shaming and bullying, Facebook
• 44:23
  Speaker 1: boss says, I don't think social media has done harm
• 44:26
  Speaker 1: to our children. Now, I just I want to just
• 44:30
  Speaker 1: chat a little bit about because you still do stuff
• 44:33
  Speaker 1: with schools. I know that you still work with students
• 44:37
  Speaker 1: and in a way and also with teachers, and I
• 44:40
  Speaker 1: won't say which school, but I know that you still
• 44:43
  Speaker 1: do stuff and you still have an advisory consultant kind
• 44:47
  Speaker 1: of role. So my question is, like, do I think
• 44:53
  Speaker 1: social media is awesome? No? Do I think it's the devil? No?
• 44:59
  Speaker 1: I mean, what I find interesting is that we want
• 45:03
  Speaker 1: to blame forget Facebook. It could be TikTok, it could
• 45:08
  Speaker 1: be Instagram, it could be fucking any of the platforms,
• 45:11
  Speaker 1: but we want to blame the platform without it all
• 45:16
  Speaker 1: thinking about the people who are using. Like I use
• 45:20
  Speaker 1: all of those platforms, but it doesn't fuck up my
• 45:22
  Speaker 1: life in fact for me. Now, I'm not saying it's
• 45:26
  Speaker 1: good or bad. I'm just saying my experience, well, for me,
• 45:29
  Speaker 1: Facebook has been kind of helpful for my business, as
• 45:31
  Speaker 1: has Instagram, as as you know an even you know, LinkedIn,
• 45:39
  Speaker 1: which is another platform that we have available to us. Now, yep,
• 45:43
  Speaker 1: I'm not saying that Facebook doesn't ever do bad things
• 45:46
  Speaker 1: or they you know, they don't have issues that they
• 45:49
  Speaker 1: don't need to deal with or resolve. But ultimately, you know,
• 45:54
  Speaker 1: it's just a tool that people are using. Right Facebook
• 45:59
  Speaker 1: is a tool that's human's use. Now. Human beings get
• 46:02
  Speaker 1: on there and say horrible shit. Yep, Facebook isn't on
• 46:06
  Speaker 1: there posting horrible shit. Humans are and Facebook is the
• 46:11
  Speaker 1: tool or the medium that they use right now. This
• 46:14
  Speaker 1: is not. And I just think that it's like, you know,
• 46:18
  Speaker 1: an Instagram will. I use Instagram every day, and for me,
• 46:21
  Speaker 1: it's a really fucking handy resource. I use this podcasting
• 46:27
  Speaker 1: platform every day, and I'm really glad I'm partnered with Nova.
• 46:30
  Speaker 1: Thanks Nova. You know, this is another technology, another mechanism
• 46:35
  Speaker 1: that allows me to connect with the world. So for me,
• 46:38
  Speaker 1: and again just my experience, Facebook is a free platform
• 46:43
  Speaker 1: that allows me to connect with people. Instagram is the same,
• 46:46
  Speaker 1: LinkedIn is the same, this podcast is the same. Like,
• 46:50
  Speaker 1: I feel like sometimes we're blaming the resource or the
• 46:55
  Speaker 1: tool while taking no personal accountability, Like what how much
• 47:01
  Speaker 1: of it is? Like there are there are kids that
• 47:05
  Speaker 1: get on there and do nasty shit and say nasty
• 47:07
  Speaker 1: shit to each other and adults of course, but there
• 47:10
  Speaker 1: are kids that never do that, right what is the
• 47:14
  Speaker 1: what is the role and why do we want to
• 47:17
  Speaker 1: blame the tool rather than the users of the tool
• 47:23
  Speaker 1: or what are your thoughts on that? In general? When
• 47:26
  Speaker 1: you think about kids having access to, you know, all
• 47:30
  Speaker 1: of these platforms, like there's talk of them. I know,
• 47:33
  Speaker 1: I'm over talking self awareness moment, Thank you Craig. There's
• 47:38
  Speaker 1: there's awareness, there's awareness, there's talk about kids not being
• 47:42
  Speaker 1: able to use Instagram tool there I think sixteen Good
• 47:46
  Speaker 1: luck policing that. But what are your thoughts all this?
• 47:49
  Speaker 2: Look, it's an interesting area, isn't it? Because if you
• 47:53
  Speaker 2: go back to when we were growing up, we really
• 47:58
  Speaker 2: only had access to a televis and that was very
• 48:02
  Speaker 2: minimal because I don't know what it was like at
• 48:04
  Speaker 2: your house, but when dad came home, he had really
• 48:08
  Speaker 2: the full control of the television and we were just
• 48:12
  Speaker 2: sort of the other people in the room that went
• 48:14
  Speaker 2: along with the experience. It wasn't like, well, the kids
• 48:19
  Speaker 2: are watching that and you'll have to wait till they're finished.
• 48:21
  Speaker 2: There was none of that. And you know, I came
• 48:24
  Speaker 2: from a big family, so it was everybody in the
• 48:26
  Speaker 2: lounge room around one television set, and when we got
• 48:30
  Speaker 2: to it was like we were rich by having a
• 48:33
  Speaker 2: second television in the space, and so there was a
• 48:37
  Speaker 2: lot more reliance on, you know, making our own entertainment,
• 48:42
  Speaker 2: either reading a book or listening to music or going
• 48:45
  Speaker 2: outside playing, etc. So our exposure to television and you know,
• 48:52
  Speaker 2: movie news cycles, all of those sorts of things were
• 48:56
  Speaker 2: incredibly minimal. And I don't know what it was like
• 49:00
  Speaker 2: you guys, but there was a rule in our house
• 49:02
  Speaker 2: that the television didn't go on until late in the
• 49:05
  Speaker 2: day and on Saturday mornings. You weren't lucky because you've
• 49:08
  Speaker 2: got a little bit of time of watching cartoons in
• 49:10
  Speaker 2: the morning. But apart from that, there was a limit
• 49:14
  Speaker 2: on how much exposure that we had to those devices.
• 49:19
  Speaker 2: And then when I became a mum, and as my
• 49:24
  Speaker 2: daughter was growing up and I'd started teaching at that time,
• 49:30
  Speaker 2: one of the things that we would start to see
• 49:31
  Speaker 2: with a lot of kids was that they were having
• 49:34
  Speaker 2: televisions in their bedrooms and those kids were then having
• 49:39
  Speaker 2: significantly disrupted sleep and we would ask the kids, you know,
• 49:44
  Speaker 2: do that sort of survey, who's got a computer, who's
• 49:47
  Speaker 2: got a TV? All of those sorts of things, and
• 49:49
  Speaker 2: the number of kids that were watching TVs until you know,
• 49:55
  Speaker 2: eleven thirty, twelve o'clock at night, and they would wait
• 49:59
  Speaker 2: until their parents were asleep and they pop the TV
• 50:02
  Speaker 2: and you know, watch another video was happening back in
• 50:07
  Speaker 2: the nineties, you know, into late nineties. So you know,
• 50:11
  Speaker 2: and now my daughter has become a mother, and you know,
• 50:16
  Speaker 2: the kids were given iPad screens at twelve months, eighteen months.
• 50:21
  Speaker 2: They were using screens at a very early time frame.
• 50:27
  Speaker 2: And at one point, educationally, there was all of this
• 50:30
  Speaker 2: talk about that it was healthy and this is the
• 50:34
  Speaker 2: way of the future, and we want to get kids
• 50:36
  Speaker 2: exposed to it as soon as we possibly can. And
• 50:40
  Speaker 2: then as an educator, you're seeing kids being so addicted
• 50:44
  Speaker 2: to it like crap cocaine, and if you're wanting to
• 50:48
  Speaker 2: remove that from the child, that you'd end up with
• 50:51
  Speaker 2: this incredible, significant behavior, all outburst because you're taking it
• 50:56
  Speaker 2: often just like kids that are into gaming, same bit different.
• 51:01
  Speaker 2: And so the amount of exposure that the kids have
• 51:07
  Speaker 2: got access to on the devices has significantly increased. And
• 51:14
  Speaker 2: you know, I often say to people here when they're
• 51:17
  Speaker 2: talking about mental health training, I'd say our news cycle
• 51:20
  Speaker 2: significantly changed. We went from you know, morning news, midday news,
• 51:25
  Speaker 2: to evening news. And then Princess Diana died and our
• 51:29
  Speaker 2: news cycle changed the day she died, and it went
• 51:33
  Speaker 2: from morning, midday evening to News on the hour, and
• 51:38
  Speaker 2: we were getting constant updates about what had happened with
• 51:40
  Speaker 2: Princess Diana, and it never moved back. And then September
• 51:45
  Speaker 2: eleventh happened, and I remember working in the school at
• 51:48
  Speaker 2: the time, and the new cycle went from News on
• 51:52
  Speaker 2: the hour to twenty four hour news, and you know,
• 51:55
  Speaker 2: our exposure to that news and obviously on September eleventh,
• 52:01
  Speaker 2: the initial broadcast of what happened on that day wasn't
• 52:05
  Speaker 2: cleaned up. We had kids sitting in front of a
• 52:08
  Speaker 2: TV screen watching people, you know, jumping from buildings, you know,
• 52:14
  Speaker 2: and it wasn't until there was a bit of an
• 52:16
  Speaker 2: awareness around, hey, we probably need to do something about
• 52:20
  Speaker 2: these are loved ones that are falling, you know, to
• 52:24
  Speaker 2: their deaths, that they actually cleaned that imaging up. And
• 52:29
  Speaker 2: you know, we've got kids that have been impacted by
• 52:32
  Speaker 2: what they've seen on the TV screen, let alone what's
• 52:36
  Speaker 2: on a you know, a device. And you know the
• 52:41
  Speaker 2: other part around that is while parents try to put
• 52:45
  Speaker 2: as many things into play to protect their child from content.
• 52:52
  Speaker 2: Not all of those protective measures are doing what parents
• 52:56
  Speaker 2: think they're supposed to be doing. And so kids being
• 53:00
  Speaker 2: exposed to content that is well beyond the years, well
• 53:05
  Speaker 2: beyond their level of understanding. And let's not even start
• 53:10
  Speaker 2: on the conversation of predatory components to it as well.
• 53:14
  Speaker 2: And you know, when we talk about you and I,
• 53:18
  Speaker 2: we've lived through a very different you know, lifespan of
• 53:23
  Speaker 2: decades of not having a mobile phone. Ever, we lived
• 53:28
  Speaker 2: through the time of when the bricks first came out
• 53:31
  Speaker 2: and then the Nokias and all of those. The kids
• 53:35
  Speaker 2: today have got nothing to compare that to. So psychologically
• 53:41
  Speaker 2: we can make a bit of a comparison. The kids
• 53:45
  Speaker 2: today have got nothing to compare it to because that
• 53:49
  Speaker 2: has been their life, you know, for X amount of years,
• 53:53
  Speaker 2: is having exposure to these devices and not actually being
• 53:58
  Speaker 2: able to see what the dangers are associated to it.
• 54:02
  Speaker 2: You know, how it's impacting their brain, how much it's
• 54:07
  Speaker 2: impacting sleep, how much it's influencing their own psychological view
• 54:14
  Speaker 2: of who they are as a person. And it's an
• 54:17
  Speaker 2: interesting thing in your I know you've mentioned this book
• 54:20
  Speaker 2: before because I think did you have the person on
• 54:23
  Speaker 2: your podcast around Bad Therapy.
• 54:25
  Speaker 1: No, I've just spoken about Abigail Schreyer a little bit.
• 54:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah, well, in her book. I was just only reading
• 54:33
  Speaker 2: it interestingly this morning, and she was talking about the
• 54:37
  Speaker 2: fact that, you know, devices are so damaging to the
• 54:43
  Speaker 2: brain and the development of young people. And we're not
• 54:47
  Speaker 2: putting any sort of I'm not saying she's completely right here,
• 54:51
  Speaker 2: I'm just referring to what she cared, but she was
• 54:55
  Speaker 2: talking about the damage and the issues surrounding using the
• 55:00
  Speaker 2: use of tablets, and there's no sort of warning signs
• 55:02
  Speaker 2: around it, not like there was if you're accessing or
• 55:07
  Speaker 2: using or utilizing cigarettes. So there's nothing that's coming out
• 55:12
  Speaker 2: around what are the dangers associated with child use and
• 55:18
  Speaker 2: you know abuse of the use of you know, tablets
• 55:22
  Speaker 2: and mobile phones, et cetera. So she's got a very
• 55:25
  Speaker 2: interesting perspective on it.
• 55:27
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, interestingly, we did interview Todd Todd Sampson, you
• 55:34
  Speaker 1: know Todd Sampson.
• 55:35
  Speaker 2: The Yeah, yeah, yeah, lov And.
• 55:39
  Speaker 1: We interviewed him about a special that he did. I
• 55:42
  Speaker 1: forget the name of the special, but it was all
• 55:44
  Speaker 1: around that. It was all around the potential dangers of
• 55:48
  Speaker 1: you know, technology and the way that obviously, it just
• 55:52
  Speaker 1: depends on the use. I think, you know, as we
• 55:55
  Speaker 1: spoke before, it's about the dose. It's like, and I
• 55:59
  Speaker 1: might sound judging, and I say what I'm about to,
• 56:01
  Speaker 1: and I apologize if I do, because I'm not for me.
• 56:03
  Speaker 1: It was not so much judgmental as just awareness. But
• 56:07
  Speaker 1: the other day, I was at the cafe and I
• 56:10
  Speaker 1: was meeting someone through the day so it wasn't early,
• 56:13
  Speaker 1: and there was a couple who came in and I've
• 56:16
  Speaker 1: never had a kid, so I'm not a parent, so
• 56:19
  Speaker 1: I've got no fucking idea. But they had this kid
• 56:22
  Speaker 1: that was screaming his ass off. I mean, I fucking
• 56:27
  Speaker 1: they was screaming the house down. And then they put
• 56:30
  Speaker 1: one of those clip on chairs on the side of
• 56:32
  Speaker 1: the table.
• 56:33
  Speaker 2: Yep.
• 56:34
  Speaker 1: Then they shoved him in and they put a fucking
• 56:38
  Speaker 1: one of the what do you call it, an iPad
• 56:40
  Speaker 1: in his hand, and he just went silent. And that
• 56:44
  Speaker 1: was it. He went from out of control to mesmerized
• 56:50
  Speaker 1: in five seconds. And I'm like, oh god, I don't
• 56:54
  Speaker 1: if I was a parent, i'd probably do the same, Like,
• 56:57
  Speaker 1: what are your options in that moment? You go, He's
• 57:00
  Speaker 1: either going to scream the house down or I do
• 57:03
  Speaker 1: this thing and it all stops. I mean, that's a
• 57:06
  Speaker 1: fucking conundrum, isn't it.
• 57:09
  Speaker 2: Well, I have got a client that I work with
• 57:12
  Speaker 2: and their young fellow is very much like that, well,
• 57:16
  Speaker 2: tantrum and two extremes to the point where can be
• 57:21
  Speaker 2: quite violent and aggressive towards mum and dad. And you know,
• 57:29
  Speaker 2: the number of conversations that I have with parents at
• 57:31
  Speaker 2: the moment is that I think parents live with a
• 57:33
  Speaker 2: certain level of fear. There's a fear around saying no,
• 57:38
  Speaker 2: or there's a fear of removing that device because they
• 57:43
  Speaker 2: don't want to deal with the tantrum. And you know,
• 57:48
  Speaker 2: I said to them, if you don't get a handle
• 57:52
  Speaker 2: on this before this young fellow finishes in grade four,
• 57:57
  Speaker 2: the horse is kind of bolted, right because they get
• 58:00
  Speaker 2: into grade five, six and there's got more autonomy, etc.
• 58:03
  Speaker 2: And they were like, so what do we do? Like
• 58:07
  Speaker 2: we don't know how to resolve the issue, And I said, well,
• 58:09
  Speaker 2: it's quite simple, and that is that you give them
• 58:13
  Speaker 2: some amount of time on the device and you're really
• 58:17
  Speaker 2: clear about when that's going to happen and for how
• 58:20
  Speaker 2: long that's going to happen, and that you might give
• 58:23
  Speaker 2: them a warning of a timer that you know ten
• 58:27
  Speaker 2: minutes is going to be up, so we'll pop the
• 58:29
  Speaker 2: timer on and you can see the timer counting down.
• 58:32
  Speaker 2: But when that time comes up, that's got to be
• 58:35
  Speaker 2: passed in. And they were like, no way, and I said,
• 58:39
  Speaker 2: it's you know, it's important for kids to be able
• 58:43
  Speaker 2: to be given some boundary around the use of the device.
• 58:47
  Speaker 2: And we then started talking about so what happens when
• 58:50
  Speaker 2: we go out for dinner and I said, well, they
• 58:53
  Speaker 2: don't take it with them, and they were clearly almost
• 58:58
  Speaker 2: in panic attack around the idea of not taking the
• 59:03
  Speaker 2: device with them, and I said, well, when I had
• 59:08
  Speaker 2: my daughter younger, we used to have a going out
• 59:11
  Speaker 2: backpack and in that going out backpack there would be
• 59:14
  Speaker 2: a book or there would be a coloring book and
• 59:16
  Speaker 2: coloring pencils and other things to be able to do
• 59:20
  Speaker 2: at the table. But when she got to a certain age,
• 59:24
  Speaker 2: which was around this little fellow's age, I had a
• 59:27
  Speaker 2: bit of an expectation that she would engage in conversation
• 59:32
  Speaker 2: because we're going out for dinner and that was a
• 59:34
  Speaker 2: family time of being together and having a conversation, and
• 59:39
  Speaker 2: if we're out with a group of parents and there
• 59:42
  Speaker 2: was a group of kids together. Well you know, they
• 59:44
  Speaker 2: had coloring books and things to use. And of course
• 59:49
  Speaker 2: their answer to me was where, Well, all of these
• 59:51
  Speaker 2: other families are going to be taking their kids, and
• 59:54
  Speaker 2: all of their kids are going to be on devices
• 59:56
  Speaker 2: and ours won't be. And I said, and that's okay.
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 2: The world is going to keep spinning, I promise you.
• 1:00:03
  Speaker 2: And I said, and I think what you'll find is
• 1:00:06
  Speaker 2: you will influence the other kids at the table. And
• 1:00:09
  Speaker 2: they weren't convinced, but they went away and they followed
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 2: through on the challenges that we put forward with them
• 1:00:17
  Speaker 2: for the week. And they came back the following week
• 1:00:20
  Speaker 2: and they said, we were really scared about going out
• 1:00:24
  Speaker 2: and not taking the tablet with us. And I said, okay,
• 1:00:26
  Speaker 2: so what happened. What did you do? And they said, yep.
• 1:00:30
  Speaker 2: We we took him to kmart and you know, created
• 1:00:34
  Speaker 2: this backpack and filled it with all things for them
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 2: to do while they were out for dinner. And she said,
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 2: and in the end, initially the other kids there were
• 1:00:45
  Speaker 2: on their tablets, but it didn't take them long to
• 1:00:48
  Speaker 2: actually put the tablets down and actually engage in what
• 1:00:55
  Speaker 2: he had in his backpack. Wow, you know. So, I
• 1:00:59
  Speaker 2: think some times parents can become scared of the behavior
• 1:01:06
  Speaker 2: that can make them feel like they're not parenting particularly well,
• 1:01:10
  Speaker 2: and they don't want to interrupt other people around them,
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 2: et cetera. So therefore they go with the easiest. But
• 1:01:17
  Speaker 2: the easiest isn't always the healthiest, as we know with
• 1:01:21
  Speaker 2: so many other elements.
• 1:01:24
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, those like it or not. It's very
• 1:01:27
  Speaker 1: convenient to go here, you go. I mean, that's super
• 1:01:30
  Speaker 1: con and I'm you know, father of the year here
• 1:01:33
  Speaker 1: what would I know? Hey, we've been talking for over
• 1:01:36
  Speaker 1: an hour. Oh Jesus, you know that. Jeez, you're a
• 1:01:38
  Speaker 1: chatty Katherine. Hey, how can people connect with you and
• 1:01:43
  Speaker 1: maybe have a look at doing some mental health first aid,
• 1:01:47
  Speaker 1: whether or not it's for them individually or as an
• 1:01:50
  Speaker 1: organization bringing you or one of your team in How
• 1:01:53
  Speaker 1: do people find you and connect with you?
• 1:01:56
  Speaker 2: Well, just through our email address, which is info at
• 1:02:00
  Speaker 2: Diggingdeeper dot com dot are you Pretty simple, really.
• 1:02:05
  Speaker 1: Info at diggingdeeper dot com, dot are you?
• 1:02:08
  Speaker 2: Mas your iyes ditto, Thank you, thank you, love you,
• 1:02:12
  Speaker 2: love you. Mark