Latest / Cardinal Territory: A St. Louis Cardinals Podcast / Angels Tag Matthew Liberatore, Cardinals Skid Grows, Bullpen Lacks Trust, Lynn Worthy joins

Transcript

Angels Tag Matthew Liberatore, Cardinals Skid Grows, Bullpen Lacks Trust, Lynn Worthy joins · Cardinal Territory: A St. Louis Cardinals Podcast

• 0:06
  Speaker 1: Hello everybody, and welcome to another edition of Cardinal Territory.
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: Jim Hayes alongside our guests for today, Lynn Worthy Post Dispatch,
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: STL Today Online. Lynn, thank you for joining us. We
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: talk a little Cardinals, and right now the Cardinals are
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: in a rough spot. Right They've lost four in a row.
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: Two of those were walk offs, one of those they
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: were up seven to nothing, and in last night's game
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: they were down five to nothing before you could blink
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: an eye and ended up losing the ballgame. So my
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: first question to you, Lynn is can they right the
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: course or is this ship sinking?
• 0:49
  Speaker 2: Oh, the sky's falling, sky's falling. Cancel the season, everything's over.
• 0:55
  Speaker 2: I mean, actually it was. I think I just looked
• 0:57
  Speaker 2: a little while ago. And so four losses in the
• 1:00
  Speaker 2: row is actually matches their season high. But the thing
• 1:04
  Speaker 2: about it is every time they've gotten to that point,
• 1:06
  Speaker 2: they've always bounced back. You weren't too worried about it
• 1:09
  Speaker 2: because they just sort of have that way where you know,
• 1:11
  Speaker 2: they can brush things off and come back and get
• 1:14
  Speaker 2: at it.
• 1:15
  Speaker 3: You know, a day later, and you know, still play
• 1:17
  Speaker 3: good baseball.
• 1:18
  Speaker 2: The thing about this one is just the fact that
• 1:21
  Speaker 2: the way they lost these games the way you lose,
• 1:24
  Speaker 2: you know, a seven run lead, and that one is like, yeah,
• 1:28
  Speaker 2: it's bullpen, but it's also you had a base running mistake,
• 1:31
  Speaker 2: you had a fielding mistake, so that one really hurts.
• 1:33
  Speaker 2: Seven run lead, and then for your all star closer
• 1:36
  Speaker 2: to cough it up the next day. It just it
• 1:40
  Speaker 2: feels like it's a lot. It feels like.
• 1:43
  Speaker 3: You know, what's going on, things are crumbling.
• 1:46
  Speaker 2: In reality, if they win the next couple of games,
• 1:49
  Speaker 2: they're back on the pace that they were at, and
• 1:53
  Speaker 2: you know, people probably are like, wow, they're gonna make
• 1:55
  Speaker 2: some moves going into the trade deadline. So but in
• 1:59
  Speaker 2: the short term, it just feels bad and it raises
• 2:02
  Speaker 2: some questions about you know, some immediate future as far
• 2:05
  Speaker 2: as bullpen and different pieces, but it's not world most likely.
• 2:12
  Speaker 1: Let's talk about Libby, right, Libby yesterday gives up a
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: five spot in the first inning, then went four and
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: a third scoreless, finished with seven strikeouts. There was some
• 2:22
  Speaker 1: good to take away, but if you look at body
• 2:25
  Speaker 1: of work, I think Libby's had a couple of good
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: starts against the Braves mixed in, but like his last
• 2:30
  Speaker 1: seven have been rough. Look, we've seen Libby be really
• 2:34
  Speaker 1: really good. I'm a Libby guy, but something's not right.
• 2:37
  Speaker 1: Where do you think Libby is right now? They gave
• 2:39
  Speaker 1: him extra rest already then he was coming off the
• 2:42
  Speaker 1: All Star break. I'm just expecting to see better results.
• 2:47
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 2:47
  Speaker 2: I think the thing that really is frustrating it's the
• 2:50
  Speaker 2: big inning again. And that's what had got him before.
• 2:54
  Speaker 2: He had starts where he looked pretty good, or he'd
• 2:55
  Speaker 2: get to a certain part and then he give up
• 2:58
  Speaker 2: a three run, four run, five run inning. And so
• 3:00
  Speaker 2: for him to come out of the gate and have
• 3:02
  Speaker 2: give up that five run inning again, it starts to
• 3:05
  Speaker 2: be like, oh, okay, well we thought he had something
• 3:07
  Speaker 2: fixed for a couple of starts, and.
• 3:08
  Speaker 3: Now what's going on and it's not.
• 3:12
  Speaker 2: You know, like during that stretcher he's giving up big
• 3:15
  Speaker 2: runs all the time, you had that feeling like, okay,
• 3:18
  Speaker 2: he's maybe there's one thing he could fix. And even
• 3:21
  Speaker 2: after him of those starts to think you were there
• 3:22
  Speaker 2: when we asked him and he said he wished he
• 3:24
  Speaker 2: knew what it was, if there was a common thread,
• 3:26
  Speaker 2: that he would have fixed it. And he had just
• 3:28
  Speaker 2: been talking to Pedro as we walked up about that
• 3:30
  Speaker 2: exact thing, and then it looked like he righted the ship.
• 3:33
  Speaker 2: But then to come out of the break and I mean,
• 3:35
  Speaker 2: I guess, you know, you could say, well, you know,
• 3:37
  Speaker 2: it's a bunch of days off, maybe he got out
• 3:39
  Speaker 2: of a routine.
• 3:40
  Speaker 3: Maybe you know, he's just a little rusty or whatnot.
• 3:43
  Speaker 3: I mean, I don't know.
• 3:45
  Speaker 2: You could say what you want, but you want to
• 3:48
  Speaker 2: see him get that right and to be consistent with it.
• 3:51
  Speaker 3: The fact that he seemed.
• 3:52
  Speaker 2: To have it fixed was encouraging, the fact that it
• 3:54
  Speaker 2: cropped up again makes you worry a little bit.
• 3:58
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, there's always going to be a little
• 4:00
  Speaker 1: when the guy's not pitching.
• 4:01
  Speaker 3: Well.
• 4:01
  Speaker 1: I like Levy, I think he'll figure it out. You
• 4:04
  Speaker 1: mentioned something earlier about this team. They are kind of
• 4:07
  Speaker 1: like Freddy Krueger, like you think they're gone and they
• 4:10
  Speaker 1: always come back right. Earlier this season we saw what
• 4:14
  Speaker 1: they played bad baseball. You think, all right, this is
• 4:16
  Speaker 1: where they exhale, this is where they sort of pack
• 4:19
  Speaker 1: it in, and they don't. And I think that's sort
• 4:21
  Speaker 1: of the trademark of this ball club. They got a
• 4:23
  Speaker 1: bunch of young guys who I think are mature beyond
• 4:27
  Speaker 1: their years of service. And they can get past it
• 4:30
  Speaker 1: and focus on the next game. But that ability to
• 4:33
  Speaker 1: punch back, we've seen it in games. We've seen in
• 4:36
  Speaker 1: stretches where they're not playing well. I think that's kind
• 4:39
  Speaker 1: of what this team's all about. So I am hoping
• 4:42
  Speaker 1: that they will be able to bounce back and write
• 4:45
  Speaker 1: it off a few wins in a row.
• 4:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah, And early in the year was that, you know,
• 4:50
  Speaker 2: they were too young to even you know, to know
• 4:53
  Speaker 2: any better, so they just assume, Okay, we just shake
• 4:55
  Speaker 2: it off. The next day, you come back and play
• 4:56
  Speaker 2: good ball. And as it built throughout the sea, you thought, well, okay,
• 5:01
  Speaker 2: this might be their trademark, or this might be not
• 5:04
  Speaker 2: even just for this season, as they start building this
• 5:07
  Speaker 2: core for the future. This is going to be part
• 5:09
  Speaker 2: of their style of play. This is going to be
• 5:10
  Speaker 2: part of their brand, if you want to call it.
• 5:12
  Speaker 2: This is going to be Cardinals baseball where they're going
• 5:15
  Speaker 2: to have games where they can just come back when
• 5:17
  Speaker 2: it seems like they're out of it. Win games are
• 5:19
  Speaker 2: not supposed to win, come from behind wins, exciting play,
• 5:22
  Speaker 2: all that sort of stuff. And so you know, for
• 5:25
  Speaker 2: that to continue, you hope for it to continue because
• 5:29
  Speaker 2: that's you know what you feel like, that's what they're
• 5:31
  Speaker 2: building and they're going to be part of what they're
• 5:33
  Speaker 2: going to be building around and not having those extended
• 5:37
  Speaker 2: losing strikes again with a young team. That's the other
• 5:40
  Speaker 2: part of the young team is you don't want them
• 5:41
  Speaker 2: to get into a stretch where they're just losing over
• 5:44
  Speaker 2: and over again. Things are going wrong, things start to snowball,
• 5:47
  Speaker 2: and then maybe momentum works against them.
• 5:50
  Speaker 3: You know, with a.
• 5:50
  Speaker 2: Veteran team, maybe you don't worry about that as much
• 5:52
  Speaker 2: because guys have been through it. With a young team,
• 5:54
  Speaker 2: you do sort of worry about that. I think even
• 5:57
  Speaker 2: you know, I want to say it was going into
• 5:58
  Speaker 2: the All Star break, Lawers talked about that, about the
• 6:01
  Speaker 2: fact that they always seem to bounce back and they
• 6:03
  Speaker 2: can brush things off and rebound pretty quickly, is important,
• 6:07
  Speaker 2: especially for the young team that they have right now.
• 6:11
  Speaker 1: Well, the bullpen is another issue. We're going to take
• 6:14
  Speaker 1: a look at the Cardinal bullpen, which has been shaky.
• 6:17
  Speaker 1: You're watching Cardinal Territory on the Foul Territory Network.
• 6:25
  Speaker 4: If you're watching us, you already know we're wearing Mack
• 6:27
  Speaker 4: Weldon right now as we talk about a great brand
• 6:30
  Speaker 4: that makes things so comfortable and easy to wear. But
• 6:33
  Speaker 4: if you're listening to the show, let me tell you
• 6:35
  Speaker 4: a little bit more about mac Weldon with my friend
• 6:37
  Speaker 4: Aeric Kratz.
• 6:39
  Speaker 5: Yeah, it's comfortable, it's light. It's summertime right now. For me, though,
• 6:44
  Speaker 5: they cater to what I need tall clothes. Normally, when
• 6:48
  Speaker 5: I buy tall clothes, it's like something that's cumbersome and boxy.
• 6:53
  Speaker 5: It still fits incredibly well, super light, perfect for the summertime.
• 6:58
  Speaker 5: They got me all covered.
• 7:00
  Speaker 4: Comfortable performance material can be yours. Mack Weldon is the spot.
• 7:07
  Speaker 4: Don't sweat the heat this summer. Feel as effortlessly cool
• 7:10
  Speaker 4: as you look. With Mack Weldon. Go to Mackweldon dot
• 7:13
  Speaker 4: com and get twenty percent off your first order of
• 7:14
  Speaker 4: one hundred and twenty five bucks or more with promo
• 7:16
  Speaker 4: code foul. That's m ac kW E L d O
• 7:19
  Speaker 4: N dot com code foul.
• 7:22
  Speaker 3: All right.
• 7:22
  Speaker 1: The Cardinal bullpen has had good strutches, bad stretches. Right now,
• 7:28
  Speaker 1: I think they're in a rough spot, So I always
• 7:30
  Speaker 1: look at it as a good bullpen has what three
• 7:34
  Speaker 1: maybe four guys in your circle of trust? Even get
• 7:37
  Speaker 1: by with two and a half right now, I'm not sure.
• 7:41
  Speaker 1: Maybe Soriano, who's in your circle of trust in the
• 7:44
  Speaker 1: Cardinal bullpen.
• 7:46
  Speaker 2: So the problem is that one of those guys just
• 7:49
  Speaker 2: had appendicitis, and so Jojo Ramiro would have been one
• 7:53
  Speaker 2: of your guys in that circle of trust along with
• 7:55
  Speaker 2: Riley O'Brien, and then you know Storry out.
• 8:01
  Speaker 3: I didn't put him in. There was potential for him.
• 8:04
  Speaker 2: I thought he was one of those guys that by
• 8:05
  Speaker 2: the end of season maybe he's there, but I didn't
• 8:07
  Speaker 2: put him in there automatically. I wouldn't put Gastallum in
• 8:11
  Speaker 2: there automatically. You know, going into the season, you might
• 8:15
  Speaker 2: have thought Sponson was one of those guys. It's been
• 8:18
  Speaker 2: up and down for him, and then it just you
• 8:22
  Speaker 2: know it. It compounds on top of that the fact
• 8:26
  Speaker 2: that you're coming off of, you know, a couple of
• 8:27
  Speaker 2: nights ago where Riley O'Brien gives one up, which I
• 8:31
  Speaker 2: think there's maybe one closer in the majors right now
• 8:34
  Speaker 2: of that top group who's perfect, and that's like Mason Miller.
• 8:36
  Speaker 3: So they all are going to give some up.
• 8:38
  Speaker 2: But so it's really gonna be a matter of finding
• 8:44
  Speaker 2: who's in that circle of trust. I mean, are you
• 8:47
  Speaker 2: guys showing the improvement and consistency to be able to
• 8:50
  Speaker 2: get into.
• 8:50
  Speaker 3: That circle of trust is probably the better way to
• 8:52
  Speaker 3: put that.
• 8:54
  Speaker 2: And I'm just I know people would say, well, you know,
• 8:57
  Speaker 2: maybe they can go out and add to it.
• 8:59
  Speaker 3: I don't see adding to the bullpen to try.
• 9:03
  Speaker 2: And facilitate some sort of a stretch run as a
• 9:05
  Speaker 2: big priority right now, and I don't. And also I
• 9:09
  Speaker 2: feel like you're you know, you spent so much time.
• 9:12
  Speaker 2: So my problem with that is you spent so much
• 9:14
  Speaker 2: time trying to build up your farm system to get
• 9:16
  Speaker 2: to a point that you haven't been at in years.
• 9:19
  Speaker 2: And depending on which rankings you want to look at,
• 9:21
  Speaker 2: I think they're a top fourth or sixth farm system
• 9:24
  Speaker 2: in Major League Baseball right now. And so then you're
• 9:26
  Speaker 2: gonna say what you're gonna where you you know, where
• 9:28
  Speaker 2: you're getting relief guys. You're probably dealing from that pharm
• 9:31
  Speaker 2: system to go get relief guys to help you get
• 9:33
  Speaker 2: through this season, when really the bigger picture has been
• 9:36
  Speaker 2: the focus this whole time. So that's why I default
• 9:39
  Speaker 2: to guys who are there right now. Have to perform better,
• 9:43
  Speaker 2: have to step up, have to be more consistent and
• 9:46
  Speaker 2: then that will trickle down through the entire bullpen.
• 9:49
  Speaker 1: All right, that's an interesting point. It takes me to
• 9:52
  Speaker 1: the next topic. Right, the Cards are four and ten
• 9:54
  Speaker 1: in their last fourteen and I fans watching this were like,
• 9:58
  Speaker 1: this team's good enough to get it into the wildcard.
• 10:01
  Speaker 1: Right now, I think they're tied for the last wildcard spot.
• 10:05
  Speaker 1: Does Heim Bloom stick to his game plan of long
• 10:09
  Speaker 1: term improvement not doing anything that could jeopardize that to
• 10:14
  Speaker 1: help for.
• 10:14
  Speaker 3: The short term?
• 10:15
  Speaker 1: Now, he told me that, and he's told others not
• 10:18
  Speaker 1: just me, that if the Cardinals are close to being
• 10:22
  Speaker 1: a postseason contender at the trade deadline, there are ways
• 10:27
  Speaker 1: of being created and adding things that can help for
• 10:30
  Speaker 1: the short term but also a piece for the long
• 10:33
  Speaker 1: term as well. Do you think the fact because people
• 10:36
  Speaker 1: are like, what if they're ten games, Like ten games
• 10:38
  Speaker 1: is the magic number for yes, we'll start we'll start
• 10:41
  Speaker 1: buying because we're ten games over. Do you think this
• 10:45
  Speaker 1: downturn and what the Cardinals have done in their last
• 10:47
  Speaker 1: fourteen games has already convinced him Maybe we're not going
• 10:52
  Speaker 1: to make any of those short term riskier moves and
• 10:55
  Speaker 1: keep our eye on the prize, which is improvement for
• 10:59
  Speaker 1: down the road in being, as he would say, a
• 11:01
  Speaker 1: perennial contender.
• 11:04
  Speaker 2: I don't think that what they've done right now has
• 11:06
  Speaker 2: changed his plans at all. Really, I think it was
• 11:08
  Speaker 2: always the big picture. And when you say, like when
• 11:12
  Speaker 2: I hear creative, that means to me, you got to
• 11:15
  Speaker 2: have some guys are you? You look to see if
• 11:17
  Speaker 2: you can make a deal to get some guys who
• 11:19
  Speaker 2: you have urm on. So it's not just the guys
• 11:21
  Speaker 2: who are going to help you through this season, it's
• 11:23
  Speaker 2: guys who you're going to be here for multiple seasons
• 11:25
  Speaker 2: as you begin or continue to build this thing. So
• 11:29
  Speaker 2: you look for those deals, but that doesn't mean it's
• 11:30
  Speaker 2: going to happen. There's no guarantee that somebody's going to
• 11:33
  Speaker 2: give you what you're looking for. There's no guarantee that
• 11:35
  Speaker 2: that person is out there. There's no guarantee that you
• 11:38
  Speaker 2: got the best package. It's going to get that compared
• 11:40
  Speaker 2: to somebody else who's looking for that, especially when it
• 11:43
  Speaker 2: comes to pitching, because you know everybody is looking for pitching,
• 11:46
  Speaker 2: and again, he's not going to I don't think deal
• 11:50
  Speaker 2: from a farm system that they just have gotten to
• 11:53
  Speaker 2: a decent place. I mean, the reason that you paid
• 11:56
  Speaker 2: money and traded away contraras Sonny Gray and Aeronautel because
• 12:01
  Speaker 2: they gave away money and all those deals, is so
• 12:03
  Speaker 2: that they could get pieces that are going to help
• 12:05
  Speaker 2: them for the future. The reason you trade it away,
• 12:08
  Speaker 2: Brendan Donovan, is so that you can get pieces and
• 12:11
  Speaker 2: help bost of that farm system. And then you're gonna
• 12:13
  Speaker 2: turn around, you know, months later and say, okay, well,
• 12:17
  Speaker 2: now we're gonna get you know, deal some of these
• 12:18
  Speaker 2: guys away for something that's gonna help us in the
• 12:20
  Speaker 2: short term that doesn't make any sense. So it's gonna
• 12:22
  Speaker 2: be something that's going to be able to help you
• 12:25
  Speaker 2: this season and in seasons to come. And I think
• 12:28
  Speaker 2: that was always going to be the case. I mean,
• 12:30
  Speaker 2: you don't come out if you're heinm Bloom and say no,
• 12:34
  Speaker 2: we're only looking towards the future, because you know you're
• 12:37
  Speaker 2: in the running right now.
• 12:38
  Speaker 3: But I think it hasn't really changed much, at least
• 12:40
  Speaker 3: in my mind.
• 12:42
  Speaker 1: Well, let me ask you this, because I always ask
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: the professional athletes we have on our show, you know,
• 12:47
  Speaker 1: the former Cardinals, do you think that it is the
• 12:54
  Speaker 1: proper thing to do to keep focused on the long
• 12:57
  Speaker 1: term and get the Cardinals back. What Heim's plant or
• 13:01
  Speaker 1: if the Cards going around and rightle off seven wins
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: in a row something like that, do you think you
• 13:07
  Speaker 1: have to reward the team and the fans by at
• 13:10
  Speaker 1: least making a move or something to shore up an
• 13:13
  Speaker 1: area for the short term to maybe give them a
• 13:18
  Speaker 1: boost for this season, or do you think that's off
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: the table.
• 13:22
  Speaker 2: So I was thinking about this, I mean, especially in
• 13:24
  Speaker 2: this stretch where they've lost these games, and I think
• 13:27
  Speaker 2: about the short term.
• 13:29
  Speaker 3: For a fan, you've got to be you.
• 13:31
  Speaker 2: Know, just kicking yourself because you're like, Okay, they could
• 13:34
  Speaker 2: be in it.
• 13:34
  Speaker 3: This year, they can make a run this year.
• 13:36
  Speaker 2: You never what could happen. You never know what could
• 13:38
  Speaker 2: happen this year. And you know, I mean I think
• 13:42
  Speaker 2: about you, Jim, watching the game tarps off and just
• 13:46
  Speaker 2: kicking yourself at the way the results are going. And
• 13:49
  Speaker 2: I keep thinking like, but you gotta think, Jim, about
• 13:52
  Speaker 2: the long term. You gotta think about it. It was
• 13:55
  Speaker 2: never about just this season. And you can't mortgage the
• 13:58
  Speaker 2: future because they haven't. I mean, you have to take
• 14:01
  Speaker 2: the big picture. And I know the idea is like,
• 14:04
  Speaker 2: oh well, you know, you gotta you know, these guys
• 14:06
  Speaker 2: have played so well, you got to give them a
• 14:08
  Speaker 2: boost to help them get through the end of this season.
• 14:10
  Speaker 3: To me, like I understand that thought.
• 14:13
  Speaker 2: At the same time, I think, if you're trying to
• 14:16
  Speaker 2: win on a high level for multiple.
• 14:19
  Speaker 3: Years, that's got to be the goal. You can.
• 14:22
  Speaker 2: Yes, you're trying to do two things, but the major
• 14:25
  Speaker 2: thing is live to win at a high level for
• 14:27
  Speaker 2: multiple seasons.
• 14:28
  Speaker 3: So and the other part.
• 14:31
  Speaker 2: Of that is, you know, everybody thinks that to try
• 14:34
  Speaker 2: and boost the team this year means you have to
• 14:36
  Speaker 2: go out and find players from somewhere to make deals.
• 14:39
  Speaker 2: I mean, there's a train of thought that says maybe
• 14:42
  Speaker 2: that boost comes internally, and I know people hear that
• 14:45
  Speaker 2: and they say, oh, yeah, guys are just gonna just
• 14:47
  Speaker 2: suddenly get better. Well, one thing, guys do need to
• 14:49
  Speaker 2: get better too. Maybe that means bringing guys up who
• 14:53
  Speaker 2: can give you a boost that in that form and
• 14:54
  Speaker 2: maybe they perform well and that doesn't cost you anything,
• 14:58
  Speaker 2: that doesn't take away from your farm just for the future.
• 15:01
  Speaker 2: That doesn't mean that you know, you're you know, robbing
• 15:06
  Speaker 2: Peter to pay Paul. You know, you can just bring
• 15:08
  Speaker 2: guys up as opposed to dealing guys, you know, trying
• 15:12
  Speaker 2: to deal guys away, to bring in guys from outside.
• 15:16
  Speaker 2: So to me, I just have a hard time thinking
• 15:19
  Speaker 2: about the They've preached so much for the last year
• 15:24
  Speaker 2: about the future, the long term, and they say, Okay,
• 15:28
  Speaker 2: well the team's doing well now, so the heck with
• 15:31
  Speaker 2: those plans and just see what we can do this
• 15:35
  Speaker 2: season and then we'll figure out the rest later. I
• 15:37
  Speaker 2: don't think that's I don't think that's a smart way
• 15:40
  Speaker 2: to go about things. I don't think that's what ham
• 15:41
  Speaker 2: Boom's going to do.
• 15:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and I don't disagree with that. I'm just hoping
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: that Hein is so smart and he's identified some guys
• 15:49
  Speaker 1: and maybe a lot of people don't see what they have,
• 15:52
  Speaker 1: and he can be creative and get a little help
• 15:54
  Speaker 1: for this year. But you're absolutely right, the help could
• 15:57
  Speaker 1: come from the minor leagues. And right now, the Carginals
• 16:00
  Speaker 1: were in a twenty game in twenty day stretch. I
• 16:04
  Speaker 1: think we're gonna see guys before this twenty twenty thing
• 16:07
  Speaker 1: is over. We're seeing one today who gets the start,
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: but I'm talking about some of the guys we maybe
• 16:12
  Speaker 1: haven't seen before. Who would you like to see get
• 16:15
  Speaker 1: a shot at some point this season.
• 16:19
  Speaker 2: This season, I'd like to see what Quinn Matthews looks
• 16:22
  Speaker 2: like in the major league level, assuming that he continues
• 16:24
  Speaker 2: to pitch well. I know, there were things they wanted
• 16:26
  Speaker 2: him to tighten up. Command was a big thing, even
• 16:30
  Speaker 2: I think Jim said it at the end of last
• 16:32
  Speaker 2: season going into this offseason in the spring training, command
• 16:36
  Speaker 2: was going to be the thing that they needed to
• 16:37
  Speaker 2: see him demonstrate that he had gotten under control or
• 16:40
  Speaker 2: he got a good handle on and it could consistently,
• 16:44
  Speaker 2: you know, show that he's mastered. And for him to
• 16:48
  Speaker 2: do that over and not just a couple of you know, outings,
• 16:50
  Speaker 2: but over a stretch of time, I think that was
• 16:53
  Speaker 2: what's going to be the key to getting him up
• 16:54
  Speaker 2: here and then once he gets up or see what
• 16:56
  Speaker 2: he looks like.
• 16:57
  Speaker 3: I mean, they are obviously the rotation.
• 17:01
  Speaker 2: They've got some guys that they're they're you know, uh
• 17:04
  Speaker 2: at least optimistic about the future. But you can never
• 17:06
  Speaker 2: have enough guys like that. And for Matthews to be
• 17:09
  Speaker 2: one of the guys who was you know, obviously Minor
• 17:11
  Speaker 2: League pitcher of the Year a couple of years ago,
• 17:14
  Speaker 2: for Baseball America. So for all the minor leagues, he's
• 17:17
  Speaker 2: a guy that I definitely would like to see and obviously.
• 17:21
  Speaker 3: Everybody talks about Joshua bias Uh. I just want that
• 17:25
  Speaker 3: to be a good situation.
• 17:28
  Speaker 2: I don't want to be a forced thing that isn't
• 17:31
  Speaker 2: going to give him a real opportunity. I want it
• 17:34
  Speaker 2: to be, Okay, you're gonna give him a shot to
• 17:35
  Speaker 2: play every day and it fits with yours of the
• 17:38
  Speaker 2: pieces that you have. So I would like to see him,
• 17:41
  Speaker 2: but I want the situation to be right, Like, I
• 17:43
  Speaker 2: don't want it to be Okay, he's gonna come up,
• 17:44
  Speaker 2: but he's only going to play part time, or you're
• 17:46
  Speaker 2: gonna play you.
• 17:47
  Speaker 3: Know, here and there there was gonna come up. Then
• 17:50
  Speaker 3: let's let's see him.
• 17:51
  Speaker 2: Let's get him some run, you know, sort of like
• 17:53
  Speaker 2: a couple of years ago, was a twenty at the
• 17:55
  Speaker 2: end of twenty twenty three with Mason win, that sort
• 17:57
  Speaker 2: of a thing.
• 17:59
  Speaker 3: So those those would be the top two.
• 18:01
  Speaker 2: On my list, just as far as like, Okay, later
• 18:03
  Speaker 2: in the season, you know, they could help you, and
• 18:07
  Speaker 2: also they could be pieces for the future, and you
• 18:09
  Speaker 2: want to see what they've got.
• 18:12
  Speaker 1: Biaz has cooled off a little bit, but he's the
• 18:15
  Speaker 1: guy if they do trade a large new bar, you
• 18:19
  Speaker 1: plug right in, right and you keep moving forward.
• 18:22
  Speaker 3: So I'm with it.
• 18:23
  Speaker 1: I want to see him. There was some swinging missed
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: up that I think they're still working with him on.
• 18:28
  Speaker 1: But I think he's going to be a very good
• 18:29
  Speaker 1: Major leaguer and I'm eager to see him. Quentin Matthews
• 18:33
  Speaker 1: I want to see badly because he's got swinging mist up.
• 18:36
  Speaker 1: He strikes out guys, still walking guys. But to me,
• 18:40
  Speaker 1: at some point, you're going to need to look at
• 18:42
  Speaker 1: some of these young arms, and I'm with you. He's
• 18:44
  Speaker 1: the guy that could surprise a lot of people. Secondly,
• 18:47
  Speaker 1: I don't know how many times you've interviewed him, but
• 18:49
  Speaker 1: he strikes me as a guy who could do very
• 18:53
  Speaker 1: well and flourish in this kind of environment given the opportunity.
• 18:57
  Speaker 1: He's the number one guy I want to see because
• 18:59
  Speaker 1: I'm curious to see what he could do at the
• 19:01
  Speaker 1: next love.
• 19:03
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 19:03
  Speaker 2: I mean obviously a couple of years ago when he
• 19:06
  Speaker 2: made that big leap and he pitched that was at
• 19:09
  Speaker 2: four different levels because I think he went both A balls,
• 19:12
  Speaker 2: double A and then triple a by the end of
• 19:13
  Speaker 2: the season, everybody was trying to rush him up.
• 19:16
  Speaker 3: And I always lean towards giving guys more time in
• 19:20
  Speaker 3: the minors.
• 19:21
  Speaker 2: And I think part of that's just because I covered
• 19:23
  Speaker 2: minor league baseball for a bunch of years, and you
• 19:25
  Speaker 2: see guys who look like they're on the fast track,
• 19:28
  Speaker 2: and then they hit bumps and they have to work through.
• 19:30
  Speaker 3: It and end up being better for it later on.
• 19:34
  Speaker 2: And then you also see guys, you know, whether it's
• 19:37
  Speaker 2: covering minor leagues or and you get to the major
• 19:38
  Speaker 2: leagues and see the guys who were fast tracked and
• 19:40
  Speaker 2: then hit bumps and how they have to sort of reset,
• 19:44
  Speaker 2: sometimes have to go back down. And some guys never
• 19:46
  Speaker 2: figured it out. Some guys it takes him a while,
• 19:48
  Speaker 2: you know. Some guys maybe just work through it and
• 19:51
  Speaker 2: keep prouising. But to me, it's always I always lean
• 19:55
  Speaker 2: towards give the guy more time, let him figure it out,
• 19:57
  Speaker 2: make sure that he's ready before you bring him up,
• 19:59
  Speaker 2: not just him up and see what he's like. I
• 20:01
  Speaker 2: don't like the idea of like, oh, well, we got
• 20:03
  Speaker 2: to see what if he's If he's you know, ready,
• 20:06
  Speaker 2: you should have an idea of how ready he is
• 20:08
  Speaker 2: before you bring him up, at least in my mind,
• 20:10
  Speaker 2: like you should have already shown you that he's ready
• 20:13
  Speaker 2: and then you just have to find the opportunity in
• 20:15
  Speaker 2: the right spot to bring him up and plug him in.
• 20:17
  Speaker 3: And so.
• 20:19
  Speaker 2: Especially with you know, potentially things maybe have to trade deadline.
• 20:23
  Speaker 2: If that means somebody gets moved and that opens up
• 20:25
  Speaker 2: the spot for him, then okay.
• 20:28
  Speaker 3: Or if it's not until.
• 20:29
  Speaker 2: Late in the season, you know, you talk about September
• 20:31
  Speaker 2: when you add a couple of guys to the roster,
• 20:33
  Speaker 2: and then he comes up and he gets that last
• 20:34
  Speaker 2: month and maybe it's just lengthens out the rotation because
• 20:38
  Speaker 2: you got some guys who are gonna be running into
• 20:40
  Speaker 2: some some innings workload limits. Either way, I'd like to
• 20:43
  Speaker 2: see that one because I think he is at the
• 20:45
  Speaker 2: point where you can say, Okay, he's shown us that
• 20:47
  Speaker 2: he's ready and now we just need to find a.
• 20:49
  Speaker 3: Spot for him.
• 20:50
  Speaker 2: But I and again for pitchers going forward, you always
• 20:54
  Speaker 2: have to have guys, and you'd like to be able
• 20:55
  Speaker 2: to go into the off season say okay, we know
• 20:57
  Speaker 2: this group of guys are candidate's are ready to start
• 21:01
  Speaker 2: pitching or to be pictures for us as starters going
• 21:03
  Speaker 2: into next season and not be trying to figure stuff
• 21:06
  Speaker 2: out and not be what's on the waiver wire? Who
• 21:08
  Speaker 2: can we take a flyer on? And especially in the
• 21:11
  Speaker 2: season when an off season, I should say, when you
• 21:13
  Speaker 2: don't know what things are going to look like timing wise,
• 21:15
  Speaker 2: with labor and potential lockout and everything else.
• 21:19
  Speaker 1: Lots of moves yet to be made. So what are
• 21:21
  Speaker 1: the Cardinal's biggest needs right now? We'll get to that
• 21:24
  Speaker 1: after this short time out. You're watching Cardinal Territory on
• 21:27
  Speaker 1: the Foul Territory Network.
• 21:32
  Speaker 4: Hey, for the families out there looking for a new
• 21:34
  Speaker 4: path to help your child succeed, take a look at
• 21:36
  Speaker 4: K twelve Powered Schools. K twelve offers tuition free, accredited
• 21:41
  Speaker 4: online public education for students in kindergarten through twelfth grade,
• 21:45
  Speaker 4: all in a setting that works for your family. And
• 21:47
  Speaker 4: they've been a leader in online education for over twenty
• 21:50
  Speaker 4: five years, serving over three million families. And Todd Father
• 21:54
  Speaker 4: you've raved about the homeschooling experience.
• 21:57
  Speaker 6: Hey, if you're a busy family, K twelve is where
• 21:59
  Speaker 6: it's that. I've had a couple of my children who've
• 22:02
  Speaker 6: been home school. It's a fantastic opportunity for them not
• 22:05
  Speaker 6: only to get better in school, but timely fashion too
• 22:08
  Speaker 6: and make some new friends. K twelve has every opportunity
• 22:11
  Speaker 6: to make your child better and smarter as they move
• 22:14
  Speaker 6: forward in their academic career.
• 22:16
  Speaker 4: See how K twelve powered schools can help unlock your
• 22:19
  Speaker 4: child's full potential. En Roll online today at K twelve
• 22:23
  Speaker 4: dot com slash foul. That's the letter K the number
• 22:26
  Speaker 4: twelve dot com slash foul. K twelve dot com slash foul.
• 22:30
  Speaker 1: So if you look at what the Cardinals needs are
• 22:33
  Speaker 1: right now, you can talk about maybe another starter bullpen.
• 22:37
  Speaker 1: What about centerfield? Church has done a very nice job defensively.
• 22:42
  Speaker 1: I think you're looking for more offense out there.
• 22:45
  Speaker 3: Is he's the solution?
• 22:46
  Speaker 1: Or do you think the Cardinals are in need of
• 22:50
  Speaker 1: more stability in centerfield right now?
• 22:53
  Speaker 6: Lynn?
• 22:54
  Speaker 2: I think long term there they'd be in need of
• 22:57
  Speaker 2: some something a little bit more.
• 23:00
  Speaker 3: I do think I wouldn't be or at least I
• 23:01
  Speaker 3: wouldn't be.
• 23:02
  Speaker 2: Opposed to letting this play out this season, just because
• 23:05
  Speaker 2: I feel like this season. You know, I think back
• 23:08
  Speaker 2: to the beginning of this season and people were like, oh,
• 23:10
  Speaker 2: what's success this season? And it's not the you know,
• 23:13
  Speaker 2: the sexy answer, but the real answer, at least in
• 23:16
  Speaker 2: my mind, was that you want to get answers by
• 23:18
  Speaker 2: the end of the season. You don't want to have
• 23:20
  Speaker 2: as many questions as you had at the beginning of
• 23:22
  Speaker 2: the season at the end of the season.
• 23:23
  Speaker 3: And so if letting it.
• 23:24
  Speaker 2: Play out with him gives you a better idea or
• 23:26
  Speaker 2: a better answer as far as what you got to
• 23:29
  Speaker 2: do at center field going forward, then him stumbling or
• 23:34
  Speaker 2: thriving is probably the best way to get to that answer,
• 23:38
  Speaker 2: that is by playing out the stretch and seeing which
• 23:40
  Speaker 2: way that goes. But long term, yeah, I think that's
• 23:43
  Speaker 2: one of those spots that you would look at and say,
• 23:46
  Speaker 2: if they could get a little bit, you know, if
• 23:48
  Speaker 2: they could upgrade at that spot, then that's a spot
• 23:51
  Speaker 2: that you would think the upgrade. You know, bullpen is
• 23:55
  Speaker 2: obviously one of them. But to me, that's a year
• 23:58
  Speaker 2: to year thing. I mean, you think back to I
• 24:01
  Speaker 2: Want I want to it was that twenty twenty four
• 24:05
  Speaker 2: that that bullpen. You know, it was the strength of
• 24:08
  Speaker 2: that team in a lot of ways with Hellsley in
• 24:11
  Speaker 2: that record setting season. But you think about that whole group,
• 24:15
  Speaker 2: I mean Nobody thought Andrew Kittridge when they made that deal,
• 24:18
  Speaker 2: that that was a blockbuster deal or that was going
• 24:20
  Speaker 2: to be, you know, a key to their bullpen. You know,
• 24:23
  Speaker 2: Jojo was solid, but you didn't know that those three
• 24:26
  Speaker 2: were going to be, you know, arguably the best trio
• 24:30
  Speaker 2: in the National League for most of that season as
• 24:32
  Speaker 2: far as back end guys. And going into that season,
• 24:34
  Speaker 2: you remember Keenan Middleton was supposed to be one of
• 24:36
  Speaker 2: the big pieces to that and he never pitched that season.
• 24:39
  Speaker 2: So bullpen's a year of the year as far as
• 24:41
  Speaker 2: you know, you could reconstructure a bullpen, you know, in
• 24:43
  Speaker 2: the offseason and it could turn to be a strength.
• 24:47
  Speaker 2: And you know, I mean even that in that year too,
• 24:49
  Speaker 2: Fernandez a real five guy. Nobody thought he would be
• 24:52
  Speaker 2: as as dominant as he was just in that first
• 24:55
  Speaker 2: you know, full season in the big leagues, moving guys around.
• 25:00
  Speaker 2: In that year, Libby was a was a key piece
• 25:02
  Speaker 2: in the bullpen, and the following year, you know, that's end
• 25:04
  Speaker 2: the being key in the bullpen lay he you went
• 25:08
  Speaker 2: out and got Mayton late in that season. Riley O'Brien
• 25:11
  Speaker 2: becomes a guy. So I mean, bullpen is obviously something
• 25:15
  Speaker 2: that you want to shure up. But to me, that's
• 25:16
  Speaker 2: something you can do in the off season fairly easily.
• 25:21
  Speaker 2: Third base is probably another spot that you know, we
• 25:24
  Speaker 2: would talk about as far as you know, an area
• 25:26
  Speaker 2: that based off of what you see in this season,
• 25:29
  Speaker 2: you could use some upgrades.
• 25:30
  Speaker 3: But I know you have an infinity for a guy
• 25:32
  Speaker 3: who's in a little bit of a run there right now.
• 25:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I like Lace because here's look, I didn't see
• 25:38
  Speaker 1: him a lot as a minor leaguer. There's a lot
• 25:40
  Speaker 1: of people that know the minor league is better than me.
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: I knew, you know, when he was twelve he had
• 25:45
  Speaker 1: a five hundred foot homer and I knew that. You know,
• 25:47
  Speaker 1: he's got a colorful personality. I just didn't think he
• 25:51
  Speaker 1: could play third base because that's what I read, that's
• 25:53
  Speaker 1: what I heard, And he looks pretty good at third.
• 25:56
  Speaker 1: And look, there's always that adjustment period for young guys
• 26:00
  Speaker 1: is getting the first taste of major league baseball. So
• 26:03
  Speaker 1: he's had some ups and dewth, but he's been very solid.
• 26:06
  Speaker 1: I like what I see from that guy. He'd be
• 26:09
  Speaker 1: a guy that I'd be willing, Like you said, just
• 26:11
  Speaker 1: let it roll, let it play out. And then we'll
• 26:13
  Speaker 1: assess later. And going back to Church too. One thing
• 26:16
  Speaker 1: I really like about Church is he plays with as
• 26:20
  Speaker 1: much fire as anyone on that ball club. And they
• 26:23
  Speaker 1: told him, hey, once in a while, get a walk,
• 26:25
  Speaker 1: and he did that for a stretch. I think he
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: regressed a little bit. But I think both those guys,
• 26:30
  Speaker 1: like you said, it's not like there, you know, game
• 26:33
  Speaker 1: out of you know, leading the central let it roll out.
• 26:37
  Speaker 1: So to me, those are two positions. I'd look at
• 26:41
  Speaker 1: you like Blaze two, don't you.
• 26:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I mean I don't know that I'm ready
• 26:47
  Speaker 2: to commit right now that he's a guy that.
• 26:49
  Speaker 3: You necessarily build around.
• 26:50
  Speaker 2: But at the same time, I would let that play
• 26:52
  Speaker 2: out a little bit a little bit and see, you
• 26:54
  Speaker 2: know where it goes. I know, I think just recently here,
• 26:57
  Speaker 2: you know all he did his weekly radio appearance so
• 27:00
  Speaker 2: Camo X and was talking about the big thing with
• 27:03
  Speaker 2: him being trying to make sure that he gets the
• 27:05
  Speaker 2: ball in the air a little bit more and even
• 27:07
  Speaker 2: compared it to what you know, the talk was around
• 27:09
  Speaker 2: Jordan Walker early on in his career, where he gets
• 27:12
  Speaker 2: the ball hard, you know, makes good contact. It's just
• 27:15
  Speaker 2: a matter of the ground ball profile is not gonna
• 27:18
  Speaker 2: you know, that's not going to cut it. So that
• 27:20
  Speaker 2: might just be a mechanical approach adjustment that he could
• 27:24
  Speaker 2: make and maybe that changes the way you view him.
• 27:28
  Speaker 2: Maybe it doesn't necessarily completely change the way you look
• 27:32
  Speaker 2: at third base, but it's something that you know, you
• 27:35
  Speaker 2: got to see it, you got you still got a
• 27:36
  Speaker 2: couple of months left to this season.
• 27:38
  Speaker 3: If he can work on that.
• 27:41
  Speaker 2: Show that he can do it, it looks different. Maybe
• 27:44
  Speaker 2: that that factors into you know, decision that you make.
• 27:47
  Speaker 2: So again in Church, you know, going back to spring training,
• 27:50
  Speaker 2: he talked about he's a guy who likes to swing
• 27:52
  Speaker 2: a lot, and he makes a lot of contact too,
• 27:55
  Speaker 2: but you got to be a little bit more selective,
• 27:57
  Speaker 2: I mean on a completely different scale. That was thing
• 28:00
  Speaker 2: with you know, Alec Perloson early in his season is
• 28:02
  Speaker 2: like he could make a lot of contact, but that
• 28:04
  Speaker 2: doesn't necessarily that's not necessarily a good thing if you're
• 28:06
  Speaker 2: making contact on their pitches or if you're swinging out
• 28:08
  Speaker 2: stuff that they want you to swing at.
• 28:10
  Speaker 3: So being able to put the ball in play is good,
• 28:14
  Speaker 3: but then you just have to be able to.
• 28:15
  Speaker 2: Sort of hone in and tighten that zone that you're
• 28:18
  Speaker 2: looking at as opposed to swing and everything.
• 28:22
  Speaker 1: Lynn, I appreciate the conversation. I enjoyed that one quickly
• 28:26
  Speaker 1: because you're very knowledgeable.
• 28:27
  Speaker 3: Thanks for coming up, Thanks for having me.
• 28:31
  Speaker 1: That's gonna do it for this edition of Cardinal Territory.
• 28:34
  Speaker 1: We'll see you next time, and hopefully that episode won't
• 28:37
  Speaker 1: suck