Latest / CareTalk: Healthcare. Unfiltered. / Who Sets the Rules for AI in Medicine? w/ Dr. John Whyte, CEO, American Medical Association

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Who Sets the Rules for AI in Medicine? w/ Dr. John Whyte, CEO, American Medical Association · CareTalk: Healthcare. Unfiltered.

• 0:00
  David: The American Medical Association's latest survey shows that eighty-one percent of doctors are using AI in practice today, and that's more than double the rate from three years ago.
• 0:09
  David: But the same technology that helps a physician finish his charts could also let a bad actor create a deepfake of him endorsing supplements he never heard of.
• 0:18
  David: And the chatbots that can answer a late-night question for a worried parent are also telling vulnerable teenagers things that could get them hurt.
• 0:25
  David: AI has arrived in healthcare, but who's gonna set the rules and how fast?
• 0:38
  David: Welcome to Care Talk, America's home for incisive debate about healthcare business policy and innovation.
• 0:43
  David: I'm David Williams, president of Health Business Group.
• 0:47
  John Driscoll: And I'm John Driscoll, the chairman of UConn Health.
• 0:51
  David: Our guest today is Dr. John Whyte.
• 0:53
  David: He's CEO of the American Medical Association.
• 0:56
  David: He took over the country's largest physician organization back in July 2025 after nearly a decade as chief medical officer at WebMD.
• 1:04
  David: And since taking that role, he's put AI squarely at the center of the AMA's agenda.
• 1:09
  David: John, welcome to Care Talk.
• 1:12
  Dr. John Whyte: Gentlemen, thanks for having me.
• 1:16
  David: So as I mentioned, you know, you came to AMA from WebMD, and you'd spent a decade or so there helping tens of millions of patients turn to screen for medical answers.
• 1:27
  David: You know, they're trying to figure out what, what to do there, and I'm wondering what you saw from that experience that carried you into this new job.
• 1:34
  Dr. John Whyte: Yeah, I'll also add, uh, up until I took this job, I saw patients for over 25 years.
• 1:41
  Dr. John Whyte: So it really was this combination that patients have always wanted more information, and at WebMD, we really talked about that better information does lead to better health.
• 1:55
  Dr. John Whyte: But the source of the information matters.
• 1:57
  Dr. John Whyte: So it was a recognition that patients go online to seek information, and we have to meet patients where they are.
• 2:07
  Dr. John Whyte: So it may be different that they may not be putting it in, uh, to a box, uh, that's a search tool.
• 2:15
  Dr. John Whyte: They may be putting into generative AI or a chatbot.
• 2:19
  Dr. John Whyte: So we have to meet people where they are, but we have to provide guardrails
• 2:24
  John Driscoll: Uh, how are we gonna do that, Dr. John, when we've got so much happening so fast?
• 2:30
  John Driscoll: I mean, if you believe the headlines, 81% of all doctors are already using AI.
• 2:37
  John Driscoll: The rest are probably not being straight about it.
• 2:40
  John Driscoll: I mean, it's sort of embedded in everything we do.
• 2:44
  John Driscoll: H-how do we put guardrails when you've got people-- when g-ba-basically the, the, the consumers in the healthcare establishment are kinda running faster than we've even started to sort of think through what, what the boundary conditions are?
• 2:59
  Dr. John Whyte: There's so much to talk about, John, and I would argue that we haven't even scratched the surface of the power of AI.
• 3:08
  Dr. John Whyte: So when you referenced our study about the number of doctors that are using AI, right now that's mostly ambient listening, right?
• 3:15
  Dr. John Whyte: It's gonna generate a note for the chart and for the patient, or it's gonna help with a, you know, a denial letter relating to prior authorization.
• 3:25
  Dr. John Whyte: What's really the value is how is it gonna help me diagnose you sooner and more effectively?
• 3:32
  Dr. John Whyte: And how is it gonna allow me to provide you a more personalized treatment?
• 3:37
  Dr. John Whyte: But here's the thing.
• 3:39
  Dr. John Whyte: I don't know how these tools are developed.
• 3:42
  Dr. John Whyte: I don't know what their algorithms are based on in terms of their dataset.
• 3:47
  Dr. John Whyte: So when we talk about guardrails, we have to have transparency first in terms of how are these tools developed.
• 3:55
  Dr. John Whyte: You know, part of the challenge here, I'm gonna be honest, is that tech is controlling how things are utilized in healthcare, and I would argue it should be the medical community that is saying, "Here's the problem. Let's have tech help solve the solution," and not tech saying, "Here's some fancy tool. Let's go find a problem."
• 4:16
  John Driscoll: Well, just as a follow-up, David, you know- Dr. John, the, the challenge here is that the technology itself doesn't allow you to actually back-- I mean, agentic AI is currently engineered using deep convoluted neural networks.
• 4:33
  John Driscoll: The, the process by which the probabilistic algorithm works doesn't necessarily allow you, as the Europeans had hoped, to back propagate exactly how, where the logic is behind before you even get into the data sets of where the answer is.
• 4:52
  John Driscoll: And yet the answer for most of us appears to be pretty accurate and more accurate than the, you know, the Google machine that we've all been relying on.
• 5:00
  John Driscoll: So how do you, how do you get at that tech infrastructure when it's, when it's the ultimate dark web?
• 5:09
  Dr. John Whyte: Yeah.
• 5:09
  Dr. John Whyte: Well, y- you know, I'm gonna quibble a little with your characterization.
• 5:14
  Dr. John Whyte: I don't know if the data are better.
• 5:18
  Dr. John Whyte: There is some conflicting information on that.
• 5:20
  Dr. John Whyte: We know there's a lot of hus- hallucinations where these AI tools actually give you the wrong answer.
• 5:28
  Dr. John Whyte: We know that some of the chatbots can, um, try to ingratiate themselves, uh, to you.
• 5:34
  Dr. John Whyte: So I'm not so sure that's better.
• 5:36
  Dr. John Whyte: But here's one potential solution that the AMA talks about.
• 5:40
  Dr. John Whyte: We often refer to these tools as augmented intelligence.
• 5:44
  Dr. John Whyte: Let them help me make a better decision as a doctor, but they're not there to replace my clinical judgment and quarter of a century of seeing patients.
• 5:56
  Dr. John Whyte: That's where there's a big difference, that patients and others wanna utilize these in lieu of a physician, and I'm saying they should help me make a better decision 'cause I'm gonna have a better sense of whether they're hallucinating or not
• 6:11
  David: L- let's go down that path a little bit.
• 6:13
  David: I know AMA has sent letters to, uh, Congress asking for federal guardrails, especially, especially on AI chatbots and mental health, and maybe to the point about, you know, augmenting versus replacing.
• 6:23
  David: I think one of the things that your letter is asking about is to dis- have the AI disclosed that it is AI- Yeah and not present itself as a licensed clinician.
• 6:31
  David: Is this really an issue today?
• 6:33
  Dr. John Whyte: Absolutely.
• 6:35
  Dr. John Whyte: And all of us have used chatbots in other areas of our life when we're trying to return a package or complain to the airlines, and I'm gonna be honest, I've used them.
• 6:45
  Dr. John Whyte: And, and sometimes I'm like, "I'm not sure if I'm talking to a human or not." That's how good they've gotten.
• 6:52
  Dr. John Whyte: And you think, "Oh, of course people would know if we're talking about mental health issues, that they would know they're not talking to a chatbot." The data shows that's not true.
• 7:01
  Dr. John Whyte: So they have to be transparent about whether you're actually talking to a human.
• 7:07
  Dr. John Whyte: That's item number one.
• 7:09
  Dr. John Whyte: And then these tools, if they wanna say that they're a licensed practitioner, then they should be subject to licensure.
• 7:16
  Dr. John Whyte: But no one thinks that's a good idea.
• 7:19
  Dr. John Whyte: There has to be a human, a physician, in the loop, and those are some of the changes and, and actions that need to be taken.
• 7:27
  Dr. John Whyte: You mentioned deepfakes.
• 7:29
  Dr. John Whyte: You mentioned it early on at the front.
• 7:31
  Dr. John Whyte: People steal your identity as a physician, and they're not there to promote some healthy alternative, as you alluded to.
• 7:39
  Dr. John Whyte: They're there to promote some unapproved product, some magic pill, some supplement, some concoction that is gonna make you live longer with no evidence.
• 7:53
  John Driscoll: In this environment, um, do you see a path where- C- Congress or are a- an- any leaders in the Whyte House are gonna actually demand the kind of transparency and clarity of the separation between the human and the machine that you're looking for?
• 8:15
  Dr. John Whyte: You know, right now the focus typically of the administration is not to have too much regulation, and there's always a debate, do you regulate before you try or do you try before you regulate, right?
• 8:27
  Dr. John Whyte: We wanna promote innovation, but we also wanna protect against potential harm.
• 8:32
  Dr. John Whyte: So where we have focused a bit is where is our common ground on regulation?
• 8:36
  Dr. John Whyte: So for chatbots, it's particularly there for minors, right?
• 8:41
  Dr. John Whyte: They, their emotional intelligence is, is not the same as an adult.
• 8:45
  Dr. John Whyte: So we should have disclosure, we should have transparency.
• 8:48
  Dr. John Whyte: We should have escalation that if they're expressing suicidal ideations, that they're connected to a real-life health professional.
• 8:56
  Dr. John Whyte: I'd like to see industry come together and really adopt responsible use of AI.
• 9:04
  Dr. John Whyte: Let's work together in trying to develop benchmarks.
• 9:08
  Dr. John Whyte: Let's talk about what a medical device is and the regulatory pathway of some of these wellness apps, which I think are more along the lines of a supplement and, and could potentially be harming patients.
• 9:23
  Dr. John Whyte: That- that's what this is all about.
• 9:25
  Dr. John Whyte: This is about patient safety
• 9:27
  David: So you talked about the federal side and then industry getting together.
• 9:31
  David: Meanwhile, the states are doing things.
• 9:32
  David: So you mentioned, um, you know, s- suicidal ideation.
• 9:35
  David: Mm-hmm.
• 9:35
  David: I think California actually requires, uh, chatbot developers to monitor for that.
• 9:39
  David: Illinois has banned AI for therapeutic decision-making.
• 9:43
  David: Pennsylvania's has a lawsuit against Character.ai for impersonation of a licensed medical professional.
• 9:48
  David: How do the states fit in with that?
• 9:50
  David: Is federal preemption essentially required, or is, is states also a, a relevant pathway?
• 9:56
  Dr. John Whyte: Well, you alluded to there is an executive order that apparently preempts states from getting involved.
• 10:03
  Dr. John Whyte: I'm not sure if all the states have been listening to that because you've given some examples where states have gotten involved.
• 10:10
  Dr. John Whyte: And the challenge with that potentially is you could have 50 states with 50 different policies.
• 10:17
  Dr. John Whyte: I'm not sure that's helpful to the medical community or to the patient community.
• 10:22
  Dr. John Whyte: So we wanna work with the states and, and states ultimately are the practice of medicine, but let's take an example of a, a pilot in Utah where there is autonomous prescribing.
• 10:35
  Dr. John Whyte: FDA could get involved and say, "That's a medical device subject to a different level of regulation," and then that would preempt the pilot from continuing.
• 10:44
  Dr. John Whyte: We could talk about standards in terms of licensure, and we've talked about that in JAMA, uh, Network in terms of if these products wanna say they practice medicine, they should be subject to licensure.
• 10:56
  John Driscoll: But John, are they really saying they're practicing medicine or they, are they glossing- Yeah … over that line?
• 11:04
  Dr. John Whyte: Honestly, I think it's playing a little bit of both ways.
• 11:07
  Dr. John Whyte: If you wanna say you're renewing a medication, I don't see how that's practicing medicine.
• 11:14
  Dr. John Whyte: That's my opinion.
• 11:15
  Dr. John Whyte: There's a lot of work that's involved in deciding whether or not a medication is renewed.
• 11:20
  Dr. John Whyte: But they wanna say, "Oh, it's just renewal of a medication, and these medications are low risk." I've worked at FDA.
• 11:27
  Dr. John Whyte: There's no medication without risk.
• 11:30
  Dr. John Whyte: Aspirin, over the counter, that has risk.
• 11:34
  Dr. John Whyte: This is patient safety issue, so that's the challenge.
• 11:38
  Dr. John Whyte: It's the same thing on wellness apps.
• 11:39
  Dr. John Whyte: You wanna say, "I'm not a medical device. I'm not diagnosing a condition or trying to treat." But then they give you these dashboards.
• 11:48
  Dr. John Whyte: We talk about your sleep score.
• 11:50
  Dr. John Whyte: We talk about wellbeing.
• 11:52
  Dr. John Whyte: People interpret that to mean something else.
• 11:54
  Dr. John Whyte: Your, your
• 11:54
  John Driscoll: real age or whatever.
• 11:55
  John Driscoll: I mean, the whole … Yeah, no, it's, it's, it's, it's-
• 11:57
  Dr. John Whyte: Heart health.
• 11:58
  Dr. John Whyte: What does heart health mean, John and David?
• 12:01
  Dr. John Whyte: What, what, what does that mean?
• 12:01
  Dr. John Whyte: Okay
• 12:02
  John Driscoll: Well, we're not gonna take on the doc on that one.
• 12:06
  David: Yeah, I get it.
• 12:07
  David: Give me a second.
• 12:07
  David: I gotta type it into the chat bot and I'll tell you.
• 12:09
  Dr. John Whyte: There you go.
• 12:10
  Dr. John Whyte: There you go.
• 12:11
  David: Can we, can we circle back a little bit more on the, on the survey of physicians?
• 12:15
  David: Mm-hmm.
• 12:15
  David: Because, um, you note that the things are just in the infancy of how it's being used, but I think there's also been adoption of other technologies, and physicians have that in mind both in their professional lives and in their, in their personal lives.
• 12:26
  David: Yeah.
• 12:26
  David: So I think there are about 40% of the physicians in the survey who are equally, equally excited and concerned.
• 12:33
  David: Mm-hmm.
• 12:34
  David: There's a lot worried about skill loss, a lot … and then a lot worried in particular about, you know, students and residents and worrying, "Hey, like, I know how to do this, but are we training the next generation who won't be able to practice without AI?" I mean, I think there's a lot of complicated questions, uh, within that, within that one.
• 12:51
  Dr. John Whyte: It's kinda like a glass half full versus glass half empty.
• 12:55
  Dr. John Whyte: So I'd say that 40% that see something positive, that's actually an improvement of what it was just a few years ago.
• 13:02
  Dr. John Whyte: So I think more and more physicians are seeing positive elements of digital health and AI tools, and I, I do think there's a lot of optimism, and these tools can be very effective.
• 13:12
  Dr. John Whyte: But at the same time, I think people are seeing, "I have to take a cautious approach because there is risk." So let's take that example.
• 13:22
  Dr. John Whyte: I, as a physician who has practiced for decades, if I'm using a, a tool that can help generate a note- What about if I'm early on in my training?
• 13:31
  Dr. John Whyte: Will I ever learn how to take a patient history if I simply use an AI tool to do that?
• 13:39
  Dr. John Whyte: So that's a real risk, and that's why I'm proud that the AMA has been supporting AI in medical education grants to figure out how do we best utilize it.
• 13:50
  Dr. John Whyte: Look, AI is here, and physicians are using AI, and they're gonna continue to use AI, as I think they should.
• 13:58
  Dr. John Whyte: But we have to have the framework and the guardrails, and this is where physicians need to lead
• 14:05
  John Driscoll: When I listen to you carefully, uh, Dr.
• 14:08
  John Driscoll: John, it, it seems that you really would like a bolder, clearer line from the federal government around a regulatory framework that would protect and enhance the role of doctors and protect and support patient safety.
• 14:26
  John Driscoll: Is that kind of the direction of travel?
• 14:29
  John Driscoll: Yeah.
• 14:29
  John Driscoll: Because that's a-- Because I think the public, right and left, agrees with you and is ahead of actually our legislative or Whyte House leadership in DC.
• 14:40
  John Driscoll: 'Cause it's a, it's a, you, you, you, you look at the surveys, and you're watching some of the activity in the state legislatures, and that I think represents a lot of public fear and concern w- that isn't necessarily focused on healthcare, but people understand that these tools are quite powerful.
• 14:59
  John Driscoll: I mean, is that… Are, are you, are, are… Is the AMA gonna take the lead here?
• 15:04
  John Driscoll: Because I do think the, that, that you're moving in a direction of real leadership here that I think a lot of people would, would look, would, would look for and support.
• 15:14
  John Driscoll: Yeah.
• 15:14
  Dr. John Whyte: The AMA is definitely leading in how we think about the use of AI in healthcare.
• 15:21
  Dr. John Whyte: And, and everyone would support that physicians should be leading in this space.
• 15:26
  Dr. John Whyte: Now, I'm not sure if there has to be federal or congressional regulatory action.
• 15:32
  Dr. John Whyte: What I think there needs to be is a framework.
• 15:36
  Dr. John Whyte: Now, it would be great if the tech industry and the patient community and the physician community can all come together and set voluntary benchmarks or standards and talk about the rules of the game.
• 15:52
  Dr. John Whyte: That's always best to try that approach.
• 15:55
  Dr. John Whyte: But I think you have to think about, i-is there a role for regulation?
• 16:00
  Dr. John Whyte: I think there is, uh, but we still have to fine-tune how much we need.
• 16:05
  Dr. John Whyte: Part of the problem is, as you alluded to, there are some bad apples.
• 16:10
  Dr. John Whyte: People are making it marketing claims as opposed to clinical guidance, and this is where physicians need to lead here, along with the rest of the clinical community.
• 16:21
  Dr. John Whyte: And there's different ways to get that done.
• 16:23
  Dr. John Whyte: Federal regulation isn't the only way.
• 16:26
  David: Can we talk about the impact of AI on the workforce?
• 16:30
  David: Because if you look at the economy- Sure … overall, there's a big concern, "Gee, there's not gonna be jobs for, for graduates. People won't have things to do." And yet if we wind back the last twenty years of talking in healthcare, it's about, you know, physician shortages and shortages of other, of other clinicians.
• 16:45
  David: So in a way, and you know, one way that the, the physician shortage has been dealt with in that timeframe is through the expanded use of PAs and NPs, um- And immigration.
• 16:57
  David: Well, yeah.
• 16:58
  David: Well, immig-- well, immigration's gone the other direction, right?
• 17:00
  David: So you can also have, you know, workforce i-issues are gonna be presumably made worse by lower immigration.
• 17:07
  David: So where do we stand now in terms of physician workforce, and where do we take it with AI?
• 17:14
  Dr. John Whyte: You're right.
• 17:15
  Dr. John Whyte: There is a physician shortage.
• 17:17
  Dr. John Whyte: There is a nursing shortage.
• 17:18
  Dr. John Whyte: There's a pharmacist shortage.
• 17:20
  Dr. John Whyte: You know, the AMA supports everyone practicing at the top of their license.
• 17:25
  Dr. John Whyte: But beyond that, if you wanna practice medicine, you should go to medical school.
• 17:29
  Dr. John Whyte: That, that's basically, um, how we look at things.
• 17:32
  Dr. John Whyte: And, and everyone wants to call themselves a doctor, but everyone should go through the rigorous training, including residency, that one needs to to practice medicine.
• 17:43
  Dr. John Whyte: Now, I do think we need to address physician shortage, and is there a role for digital health and AI?
• 17:50
  Dr. John Whyte: And I think there could be.
• 17:51
  Dr. John Whyte: And these are the discussions that we need to be having that we haven't had.
• 17:55
  Dr. John Whyte: What is the role of agentic prescribing, and under what circumstances?
• 17:59
  Dr. John Whyte: What are the role of chatbots in mental health?
• 18:02
  Dr. John Whyte: There's not e- enough mental health professionals.
• 18:04
  Dr. John Whyte: So how can they help in anxiety and depression, and under what parameters?
• 18:10
  Dr. John Whyte: I don't know what the answers are, but this is the time that we need to be thinking about it and coming together.
• 18:17
  Dr. John Whyte: We're not gonna churn out more clinicians in any short period of time.
• 18:22
  Dr. John Whyte: But how can we more appropriately triage patients, more appropriately diagnose, so they don't have to undergo as many tests, have more personalized treatment that we don't waste some time on treatments that patients don't need?
• 18:37
  Dr. John Whyte: That's where I think we can address some of these issues of shortages.
• 18:42
  David: Let's talk about the evolving role of the patient, uh, relative to the physician.
• 18:46
  David: So I think in your survey about, you know, half the members say they don't want patients using AI to interpret their own radiology or pathology results.
• 18:53
  David: But where's the line between empowering patients to advocate for themselves versus patients, you know, self-diagnosing into a harmful situation?
• 19:02
  Dr. John Whyte: And as I said, up until a few months ago, I still s- I still saw patients.
• 19:06
  Dr. John Whyte: Patients are utilizing these tools.
• 19:08
  Dr. John Whyte: We can't pretend like they're not doing it or they're gonna stop doing it.
• 19:11
  Dr. John Whyte: What we have to do is help them use these tools effectively.
• 19:16
  Dr. John Whyte: So these tools should not be used to replace a physician's judgment, but I'm okay when patients have looked at labs first or radiology tests before we have, and, and rules have allowed them to do that, that they get them at the same time.
• 19:30
  Dr. John Whyte: These tools can help them think through the diagnosis, not automatically say,"This is what you have," or, "This is what you don't have," but it can help you develop a list of questions that you could talk to me about.
• 19:42
  Dr. John Whyte: It could help you develop a list of a differential to go over with the physician.
• 19:47
  Dr. John Whyte: So we should have the opportunity to be able to talk to patients about that.
• 19:52
  Dr. John Whyte: At the same time, the visits are more and more compressed.
• 19:55
  Dr. John Whyte: I'd love us to be able to have more time with the patient to go over their test results and lab results.
• 20:00
  Dr. John Whyte: But I think AI can play an important role here to help patients have a more productive discussion with the clinician
• 20:10
  David: John, last question to you
• 20:12
  John Driscoll: Yeah, I just, I, I, I'm still looking forward, John, for, for you guys to set up the guardrails.
• 20:18
  John Driscoll: Now, you sent, sent letters, I think, to three congressional committees- Mm on a really important issue, you know, the use of chatbots in mental health.
• 20:26
  John Driscoll: Mm-hmm.
• 20:26
  John Driscoll: One in six adults i- in America le- leverage them in some form or fashion.
• 20:31
  John Driscoll: Yeah.
• 20:31
  John Driscoll: There aren't guardrails there.
• 20:34
  John Driscoll: Don't you think there's a role for the AMA to lead here and perhaps provide the guardrails or, or- Yeah … or, or, 'cause I, I'm, I'm more confident in you than I am in Congress-
• 20:43
  Dr. John Whyte: Thank you
• 20:43
  John Driscoll: to come up with, come up with views on safety- Well- … and how to handle these things.
• 20:47
  Dr. John Whyte: Yeah.
• 20:47
  Dr. John Whyte: This is what I would say, and, and, you know, we just sent those letters out, uh, a few weeks ago.
• 20:52
  Dr. John Whyte: That's not all we do here.
• 20:53
  Dr. John Whyte: That's not my approach.
• 20:54
  Dr. John Whyte: Send a letter, and then I'm done.
• 20:56
  Dr. John Whyte: Check it off and move on.
• 20:58
  Dr. John Whyte: We are working in a bipartisan way to actually work with the Congress, to work with the executive side to say, how do we address this?
• 21:09
  Dr. John Whyte: So we're interested in, as you pointed out, we wanna have disclosure and have mandated disclosure if we need that.
• 21:15
  Dr. John Whyte: We wanna have escalation, particularly for minors, that if they're exhibiting symptoms of suicidal ideation, that it's gonna be escalated to a human.
• 21:25
  Dr. John Whyte: It's always nice first to try to have everyone do it on their own, but if not, then that is the role of regulation, and we're actively working with the Congress in a bipartisan way to address the issue of chatbots as it relates particularly to mental health.
• 21:41
  David: Well, that's it for yet another episode of Care Talk.
• 21:43
  David: Our guest today has been Dr. John J. Whyte.
• 21:45
  David: He's the CEO of the American Medical Association, and we've been catching up on the latest and greatest in AI.
• 21:52
  David: I'm David Williams, president of Health Business Group.
• 21:55
  John Driscoll: And I'm John Driscoll, the chairman of UConn Health.
• 21:58
  John Driscoll: If you liked what you heard or you didn't, we'd love you to subscribe on your favorite service.
• 22:02
  John Driscoll: And Dr. John, thank you for your leadership, and thanks for joining us
• 22:06
  Dr. John Whyte: on Care Talk.
• 22:06
  Dr. John Whyte: Absolutely.
• 22:06
  Dr. John Whyte: Always happy to chat