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Should You Start a Podcast? (with Steve Stewart) · The Daily Writer

• 0:01
  SPEAKER_01: I started listening to podcasts around two thousand six when podcasting was still in its infancy.
• 0:07
  SPEAKER_01: Now, well over ten years later, podcasting has exploded in popularity with literally hundreds of thousands of podcasts to choose from.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe you have considered adding your voice to the mix and starting your own podcast.
• 0:19
  SPEAKER_01: If so, this episode is for you.
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_01: Hey friends, welcome to the Born to Create Podcast.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_01: My name is Kent Sanders and I'm an author and professor.
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_01: This is the show where we explore the mindset, habits, and principles to help you make a bigger impact in your life and creative work.
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_01: I'm thrilled today to bring you this conversation with my great friend Steve Stewart.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_01: He started a podcast in 2010 to help market his financial wellness coaching business.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_01: And in 2016, he had to give the business up, as well as his podcast, when others began asking for help with the editing and production of their shows.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_01: He currently produces 25 shows, mostly for podcasters in the personal finance and investing space.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_01: In this conversation, you'll learn what makes podcasting different from other mediums and how to answer the question, should I start a podcast?
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_01: Steve also shares how to avoid common podcasting mistakes, how to measure success as a podcaster, and why knowing your purpose is so crucial to your podcasting success.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_01: Steve also goes into great detail about a vital but often neglected topic, which is how to write and format your episode titles correctly.
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_01: Now I know some of you are thinking that sounds completely arcane and pointless, but let me assure you your titles are really, really critical.
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm so glad he shared these really valuable tips on this episode because they've also helped me as well.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_01: And they've also directly impacted how I title my own podcast episodes.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I hope you enjoyed this conversation as much as I did.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_01: And if you want to take a deeper dive after the episode's over, be sure to check out our show notes at KentSanders.net slash Steve.
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_01: That's KentSanders.net slash Steve.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_01: I'm here with Steve Stewart.
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_01: Uh Steve, welcome to the Born to Create Podcast.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks, Kent.
• 2:17
  SPEAKER_01: Hey, I really appreciate you making time to be on the show today.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_01: We're going to talk about podcasting, which I know you are passionate about and I'm passionate about as well.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm uh looking forward to this.
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_00: Me too.
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_00: I love talking about the podcasting.
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_01: So before we tackle some whys and hows of podcasting and and more some strategy and details and that type of thing, can you take a couple of minutes and briefly take us through your journey of podcasting?
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_01: In other words, how did you get into it from you know sort of your previous career and where are you today with it?
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I'll try to keep it down to two minutes.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_00: I'll try to keep it.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_00: Well, two, three, five, ten.
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_00: No, no, no, no.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_00: Your audience wants to get to the good stuff.
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_00: It's a store that started in 2003 or four, and I'll try to get it down here in about two minutes.
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_00: So we've got uh I was working a day job, which had me on the road a lot, traveling between location to location.
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_00: I was driving in Southern Illinois, bumped into a radio station that was playing Dave Ramsey.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_00: Didn't know it was Dave Ramsey, just thought it was this cranky old shock jock radio guy who was talking about money.
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_00: So I started listening to that and I really got interested into the personal finance space, and then my wife and I got serious, got out of debt in 2007, and I thought, you know what, this is really cool information.
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_00: I really want to start to help people with their personal finances.
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_00: So I started a blog, started doing some coaching.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_00: 2010, I started a podcast because I thought, you know, I really like this podcast medium.
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_00: It's been around for a couple years, seems like it's sticking around.
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_00: And so I launched the Money Plan SOS podcast.
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_00: And in the beginning years of that, this conference also started called FinCon.
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_00: FinCon is, it started off as a financial blogger conference, but now is expanded to include anybody in the money and media space for them to get together.
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_00: It's an expo, it's a conference, it's it's this amazing community of people who are competitors to each other, but they're all also helping each other, lifting each other up, helping each other to grow their audience, their listenership, their business, whatever.
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_00: In that group, I became known as that blogger who had a podcast.
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_00: There were very few of us back then.
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_00: Fast forward to 2015, and a couple of well-known financial bloggers were going to get together and start a podcast, and they kept talking about it, talking about it, talking about it.
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_00: And they finally, after hearing me say, Hey, I'll, you know, you need help, just let me know.
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_00: I love doing podcasts myself, and I could help you give some advice if you need it.
• 4:33
  SPEAKER_00: Well, they called me up one day in 2015 and said, Steve, we just want to hit record where you do the rest.
• 4:39
  SPEAKER_00: And that was because they didn't want to do all the post-production, editing, all that mess.
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_00: It is talking about the hard part.
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_00: Some people have a knack for talking and make it easy.
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_00: Well, now you got the recorded audio, what do you do next?
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_00: And that's what the that that can consume a lot of time.
• 4:55
  SPEAKER_00: So I said, sure, but I gotta charge you money.
• 4:57
  SPEAKER_00: They said, absolutely, Steve, we want to pay you.
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_00: We know you, we like you, we trust you, we want to hire you.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, okay, I've never done this before.
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_00: My financial coaching business was all I was doing at that time, and it was it was stagnant, it wasn't growing like it should have been.
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_00: So I thought, okay, this is my new side hustle, podcast editing.
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_00: Never in a million years knew that in six months, by June of 2016, after we launched that show, that this FinCom community would all go and they'd say, Oh, look, look, this uh these two bloggers got together, did a podcast, and they outsourced the editing.
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_00: I know Steve, I like Steve, I trust Steve, I want to hire him to do my editing because I hate it so much.
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_00: And in by June of 2016, it's all I could do was edit podcasts for other people.
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_00: It's been growing ever since.
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_00: It became my full-time job since June 2016.
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_00: I'm making a decent living from editing podcasts, which is crazy to me.
• 5:51
  SPEAKER_00: So that's in a nutshell who I am.
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_01: That is awesome.
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_01: Why do you think that podcasts have grown so much as opposed to to other types of communication or other mediums?
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_01: Like, what is it about podcasting that really attracts people and that you feel like is so impactful?
• 6:07
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I think a lot of people are getting tired of the same type of entertainment that they had, which was radio and television, which if you watch television, you watch any of those television shows on like the uh the Home Garden Network or I I I what is it, HD TV and a couple, you know, you'll get two, three minutes of content, then they'll go to commercial break, and then they'll recap what they did in the first you know, seven minutes, and then you get two or three more minutes of new content, then they go to commercial break, and then they, you know, it's like, oh, okay, this medium, this podcast medium, isn't a radio show where you go to break every seven minutes for three or four minutes.
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_00: You can get long form content, you can get deep into a discussion and conversation with somebody and never break away from the conversation, like a conversation you could have at a dinner party or at a cocktail party or whatever.
• 7:01
  SPEAKER_00: You could have some distractions, but for the most part, you're gonna have a long conversation as long as you're into it.
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_00: And with podcasting, you're a I'm gonna say it's kind of weird, you're a voyeur into somebody else's conversation.
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_00: If it's good content, though, you're gonna hang around forever.
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that totally makes sense.
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_01: And I find that that's what draws me to podcasts.
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_01: I listen to a lot of shows, I love podcasting as a medium, and it's just fun to sit and listen to somebody's conversation.
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_01: Of course, it depends on if it's a topic that you're interested in, and it depends on the guest and the host and all that stuff.
• 7:33
  SPEAKER_01: But it's just so much more fun to listen to two people talking about something that you're interested in rather than kind of it just being a one-way conversation or a presentation or whatever else.
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_00: And if the host is doing it right, they are presenting the guest to you.
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_00: You're the listener, they're talking to the guest in in your place, and that becomes this really intimate thing, even though you're just listening to them in your earbuds.
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_00: So it's a very unusual thing.
• 8:00
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it's not watching a video, it's not listening to you know, radio or television or even Spotify.
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_00: You know, and listening to music is great, but listening to a podcast, you're also usually learning something, or you're being entertained.
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_00: One of the two, it's usually learning or being entertained.
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_00: And that's I think the power behind podcasts.
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_01: Have you found shows that do both of those things?
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_01: Because honestly, that's something I've wrestled with with this show is do I want it to be more of a not like funny ha ha comedy entertainment.
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_01: Although my son would say my dance moves are comedy, but that's beside the point.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I kind of wrestle with do I want it to be more lighthearted and more of an entertaining thing or more of a teaching kind of thing?
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_01: And have you seen shows that successfully blend both of those elements?
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, by the way, I do want to see your moonwalk sometime.
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_00: But the Stacking Benjamin show.
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_00: The Stacking Benjamin show has long been my favorite since day one.
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_00: They actually had a different iteration of the show before they rebranded.
• 8:52
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I actually now work for them, but I didn't always got to know the host and everything, but they are entertaining.
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_00: They also present different topics within a one to hour, 15-minute show.
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_00: And so it's never it's it's kind of different because it's not a deep dive into a topic because it changes like every 15 minutes.
• 9:15
  SPEAKER_00: You're going on from one thing to another to another.
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_00: If I walked you through the format, you'd understand.
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_00: It's like ADD or it's like flip flipping through a magazine.
• 9:23
  SPEAKER_00: You get these great topics.
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_00: Now, it's entertaining, but you are also kind of learning things.
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_00: And I think the important thing about their show is it it's it's not learning about how money works, it's having discussions around money, which then causes you to start thinking, internalizing, asking questions, seeking out more information.
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_00: So it's kind of that conversation starter.
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_00: So I think they do it really well because it is entertaining, and you're you're not learning something.
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_00: And in fact, they'll tell you if you learn something that that keep it to yourself.
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_00: Because it's really they just want to have conversations around money, but it's not just two guys sitting at a table talking to each other.
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_01: But isn't that how we learn anyway?
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_01: You know, we're so used to kind of the standard classroom model of here's an expert, they're presenting information, but how we really learn, it it's more of a gradual stop and start process, and that conversation kind of draws us into the topic in a way that makes us feel included.
• 10:15
  SPEAKER_01: It doesn't make us feel stupid about the topic.
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_01: And to me, that's such a great learning model because it's it's not some quote unquote expert saying, here's what you should do, here's the five steps, or whatever.
• 10:25
  SPEAKER_01: Not that there's not a time and a place for that, but the conversational element has really become really popular, which I think is great.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, but learning through play is definitely big time, and I think that's a problem with some of our schools.
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_00: It's definitely a problem with the way I was learning, is I wanted to learn to keep me engaged, basically, you had to keep me engaged, and how do you do that?
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_00: You you keep me, I don't want to say entertained because now it sounds like you're up there, you know, juggling and you know, doing your moonwalk for everybody.
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_00: It's just that you've got to keep me engaged somehow.
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_00: And if it gets to be dry and boring, the content's got to be really good for me to stick around.
• 11:00
  unknown: Yeah.
• 11:01
  SPEAKER_00: Not saying that you have to crack a joke every five minutes.
• 11:03
  SPEAKER_00: That's not what I'm saying.
• 11:05
  SPEAKER_00: But it does need to have some kind of an element where you're not lecturing to me.
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_00: You're there with me, helping me understand something.
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_01: So then how does that that jive with, let's say, uh, you know, I think his name is Dan Carlin, is that correct?
• 11:21
  SPEAKER_01: He has a podcast called Hardcore History.
• 11:23
  SPEAKER_01: How does that idea jive with with that podcast, which is very much a lecture type of thing?
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_01: Is it just he would would be considered an outlier or an exception to the general rule?
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I think that's the other type of great podcasting, is it's storytelling.
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_00: Storytelling is huge.
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_00: That's why NPR, their shows are so great.
• 11:45
  SPEAKER_00: They spend hours producing a 30-minute, 45-minute, one hour episode.
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_00: Because they are sitting there, they you know, they've sent people out in the field with recorders and recording live interviews with people, street sounds, or they might send people to a studio where they're just gonna have a microphone in a sound booth and and capture the tape that they then splice up in little pieces and present to you saying, and we had a you know, we talked with Dr.
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_00: So-and-so about such and such, and then Dr.
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_00: So-and-so starts talking as if he was right there.
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_00: That's a lot of engineering and editing and producing that goes into their shows, but it's to create this narrative story.
• 12:24
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that does that you know the the the great thing about podcasting is that you can do a bunch of different things.
• 12:31
  SPEAKER_00: As long as you're talking to your audience, meaning the type of person that can relate to you, and probably that you can relate to, then if you present the medium in the way that they want, then they're gonna be your listener forever.
• 12:45
  SPEAKER_01: The storytelling element is really, really huge.
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_01: How on a show like this that's more of an interview format, how can you incorporate some of those storytelling elements?
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_01: Do you produce some shows or do you know some shows that are doing that really well?
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I will say that getting little stories just could be examples from my own life.
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_00: Like you and I, just before we started talking, started getting to a conversation that really could have gone on forever.
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, uh, we're we're doing an interview over Skype and we're we've got the video going.
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_00: So you can see what's behind me.
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_00: I've got a wall of vinyl records.
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_00: Now, for people who are over 40, you get it.
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_00: People who are under 40, like, I've heard about those things, but I really don't get it.
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_00: And then we started talking about my background.
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_00: I could tell you stories about when I was in a big uh breakdancing group in high school and then how I started working in retail for music, and I was traveling around the United States, you know, working for music retail companies.
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_00: There's a lot of story in there that I could tell you about, and I think people are like, ooh, I want to hear about that.
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_00: Unfortunately, that's not the place for it here.
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_00: But you get the idea is I can insert little stories from my life that aren't hour-long or Dan Carlin hardcore history, four and a half to six hour-long episodes.
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_01: Do you do you know of any interviewers right now who are doing a really good job of helping to pull stories out of people?
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_01: Like, you know, when you think of the podcasting world or even the broadcasting or TV world, who would you consider the really best interviewers that do a great job of pulling those stories out and asking really insightful questions?
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_00: Well, the problem is I live in a bubble because I work for my clients and most of the content I consume is the podcast that I edit for them.
• 14:17
  SPEAKER_01: True, true.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_00: But I will say I'm gonna point back to Joe Salsehai, the host of the Stacking Benjamin show, because he will try and get uh one of the things he does in his show, and and they release a show up three days a week, but Monday and Wednesday are the exact same format, and they kind of vary a little bit on Friday.
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_00: But right about 15 minutes into the episode, he's gonna have an interview with somebody about a specific financial based or themed topic.
• 14:43
  SPEAKER_00: And he'll usually get right to the point, he'll say, What is your origin story?
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_00: Or you know, how did this come to be?
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_00: Was there a problem you were trying to solve?
• 14:51
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, you know, it he he tries to get stories out of them right away because that's what people want to listen to is how did this, you know, how did if if I was just a salesman for a product, whoopee.
• 15:03
  SPEAKER_00: But if I had created something because I felt a need that would solve your problem with growing mustache hair, I just came up with that.
• 15:12
  SPEAKER_00: Um, then you know, tell me why.
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_00: Why did you create this product?
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_00: And that, you know, what happened?
• 15:18
  SPEAKER_00: And usually there's a funny little story that comes with that, or you hear somebody's pain, and we kind of like to relate to people who've gone through pains because it's like, oh, this is a real person.
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_00: This just isn't a guy posing as suit and tie salesman trying to pitch me something because he wants my money.
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_00: So the stories definitely play into that.
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_01: So this is a podcast about creativity, and when I look at what you do, you're editing podcasts, you're dealing with lots of technical elements, those kinds of things.
• 15:45
  SPEAKER_01: What excites you about that end of things?
• 15:47
  SPEAKER_01: Because most people would consider editing podcasts to not be something that's exciting to them.
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_01: So, what excites you about that?
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_01: How do you feel like that you're helping to release your own creativity in the world through editing and through working with more of the technical and production side of podcasting?
• 16:03
  SPEAKER_00: I'm taking a uh an audio engineering class right now, actually.
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_00: I'm about to finish it up.
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_00: Uh it's a virtual class, two hours a week, seven weeks in a row.
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_00: There's more to it than just that.
• 16:13
  SPEAKER_00: But what I have we're actually, we just finished week six.
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_00: And what I've learned from this is there's still a lot for me to learn about as far as audio quality.
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_00: But as far as the audio editing, I've been doing it full time now for a couple years, plus all the years beforehand, when I was, you know, just recording vinyl onto my computer through, you know, a sound card way back when and editing my own podcast.
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_00: I've got I've grown to be an expert in editing and become efficient with it, to where now I can kind of experiment at times when something goes wrong with the audio.
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_00: For instance, I've got one show that they've got four people who are on, well, it's a it's like a panel.
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_00: And if something happens and they all start talking at the same time, you know, somebody says something funny and they all kind of jump in, well, it all gets lost because everybody's talking at the same time.
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_00: You don't understand it all.
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_00: So I can then kind of shift the time on when somebody starts to talk and put, you know, move somebody back a little bit so that the brain somehow can just pick all that up and you can kind of hear what everybody said without it becoming this, you know, if it was just a three or four second burst, now it's just like five or six seconds, and I can get all four people in there.
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_00: And I know that's something that not a lot of people can do, and it's a little thing, but it's got it's those things that really kind of get me excited because I you never know when it's gonna happen.
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_00: And uh, you know, inserting sound effects for certain shows that allow that.
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_00: Definitely fixing the audio when there's a problem.
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_00: That that's I just I know I'm serving my clients well because they won't want to deal with this this horrible audio and what it takes to fix it.
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_00: I love being able to solve my clients' problems without them even know that there was a problem to start with.
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it it occurs to me this is it's really the same function that I perform as, and I do some editing on the side, and we've worked together on one or two projects before as well.
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_01: And it's the same thing where I can take somebody's rough material and really make it shine, polish it up.
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_01: I work with words, you work with audio, it's it's the same thing.
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_01: And there, you know, when you love a specific format, there's a real joy and an excitement that comes from helping somebody be more successful.
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_01: That's really fun to me.
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I think you and I both have servant hearts, so I like to kind of be my dad was this way too.
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_00: I like to be that guy in the background, pulls the curtain open, turns on the lights, you know, sweeps the floor when everybody's gone and turns off the lights, lock the doors.
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_00: I kind of like to be that guy.
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_00: Let the stars shine and let us be that that you know, the helper there that helps them become brighter.
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that helps them become more successful.
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_00: Because for for podcast editing, what I do essentially is not only do I make their end product, the podcast that people listen to, not only do I make it better than they probably could themselves, but they get three or four hours of their life back.
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_00: Because if you think about it, and people have asked this question a thousand times, and the answer always comes down to for anybody who actually looks at it, for an hour worth of recorded audio, it takes you about four hours to produce that.
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_00: Meaning, come up with the idea, um, not just sit and record the interview, but to actually come up with the idea, record the interview, produce it, mix it down, and upload it to whatever service provider that you're hosting it through.
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_00: That's about four hours for every hour.
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_00: So luckily I can get that down to two to two point five for them.
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_00: Of course, I didn't have to sit and record it, but they're getting their life back.
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_00: And then they can spend more time focusing on the things they want to do, which is create better content, work on getting better guests, uh, do promotions, marketing, take the dog for a walk, sleep.
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_00: That's something that my clients love to do is sleeping is a good night's sleep.
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_00: So that's that's where you know I could say that that's really what I do is I give podcasters, you know, three to four hours of their of their life back every week.
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_01: And that's something that you can't get back.
• 20:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yep.
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_01: So podcasting is we all know podcasting is really popular right now.
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_01: Many of the people listening to this episode will probably be wondering, should I start a show?
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe I feel guilty because I haven't started a show already, or I started a show and I abandoned it, all those kinds of things.
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_01: Before we dive into more of some strategic kind of things related to podcasting, are there some times whenever someone should not start a podcast?
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_01: In other words, if someone is thinking about it, is there anything that you would say to them regarding, hey, maybe you should not do a podcast, or these are some things you know, maybe it's the other way of looking at it where you say, These aren't the only times that you should consider doing a podcast.
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_01: If you have X, Y, and Z things or or whatever.
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_01: So what are your thoughts on that?
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_00: I will tell you, actually, when people contact me and they're saying, I think I might start a podcast, they have to convince me that they really want to do this.
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_00: I actually talk them out of it.
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_00: They've really got to want to because this is a time suck.
• 21:03
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, it really is.
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_00: This is not easy, it's not fun, it doesn't grow as fast as you want, you don't get the results that you want right away.
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_00: It's a lot like a you know, a lot of things in life.
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_00: They have to convince me that they really want to do this because they've got to want to do it to stick through the first six months, which is kind of a telling sign that you're gonna stick around.
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_00: Otherwise, don't do it.
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_00: It is because there's other things you can do instead.
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_00: You can make YouTube videos, you can do Facebook Live, you can write blog posts, you can just get on social media, you can go into your local community and do some really impactful things.
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_00: Podcasting is not the solution for everybody.
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_00: So you really got to want to do it.
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_00: And you've got to realize that the and this is a really powerful thing I told somebody one time that caused them to start a podcast.
• 21:45
  SPEAKER_00: The people who read your blog are not the same people who will listen to a podcast.
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_01: That is such great advice.
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_01: It's very true.
• 21:52
  SPEAKER_00: The person who listens to podcasts, do not read blogs.
• 21:55
  SPEAKER_00: They're probably not watching YouTube videos.
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_00: Not in the way that a lot of people do.
• 21:59
  SPEAKER_00: There are different Animal altogether.
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_00: So it would be it would be great if you had the capacity to do all the things.
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_00: But podcasting is a big time commitment and not just every week.
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_00: I'm talking about over a long period of time.
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_00: Because don't start a podcast if you're only going to do 10 episodes.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_00: Don't.
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_00: Just do a short video series on your website then.
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_00: Or something.
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I assume that the person that we're talking about here is looking to do a podcast because it's going to be a part of their business, a marketing arm for their business.
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_00: They've got a message that they want to get out there.
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_00: It's not just, oh, me and my buddy get together.
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_00: We have great conversations.
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_00: I want to record it and put it out there for the world to hear.
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_00: Don't waste my time.
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_00: Don't do that.
• 22:43
  SPEAKER_00: I'm talking about people who are serious about getting information out there.
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_00: And it might be a selfish reason for, hey, I want to gain some clients.
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_00: I want to get some business and sales out of having this long-form content that connects with people who don't read blogs.
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_01: So what are the biggest mistakes that you see beginning podcasters make?
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_01: Let's say somebody's listening, they say, I'm really committed.
• 23:02
  SPEAKER_01: I love podcasting.
• 23:03
  SPEAKER_01: I want to do this.
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_01: But I want to avoid a lot of mistakes that other people make.
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_01: What are some of the common things that you're seeing with new podcasters?
• 23:11
  SPEAKER_00: They expect too much from the beginning.
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_00: There's been a fallacy.
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_00: Is that the right word?
• 23:17
  SPEAKER_00: There's been a there's been bad advice going out there for well actually it's it's become bad advice because the tool that that people pointed to is broken or doesn't get used anymore.
• 23:27
  SPEAKER_00: They're talking about being on the charts, on it on iTunes charts.
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, I've only got eight weeks to be in eight weeks to be in new and noteworthy.
• 23:35
  SPEAKER_00: Well, new and noteworthy isn't updated anymore.
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_00: It hasn't been in years.
• 23:37
  SPEAKER_00: I've got proof.
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_00: It has not been updated in years.
• 23:41
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe the main one on the front page of iTunes.
• 23:43
  SPEAKER_00: I and iTunes is only one destination.
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_00: You know, we've got Google Podcasts now, which is an app on every Android.
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_00: All you have to do is pull it up, basically.
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_00: You don't know it's there.
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_00: It's supposed to be in the background.
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_00: Uh I don't have an Android, so I can't say for sure how it works.
• 23:57
  SPEAKER_00: But uh there's that.
• 23:58
  SPEAKER_00: Spotify is now in the game.
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_00: Uh there's rumors that Pandora's gonna get in the game of use, you know, of having podcasts on their platform.
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_00: Uh I know for a fact I was talking or I was hearing a story about somebody who was at an expo and he had a booth.
• 24:12
  SPEAKER_00: And he had a bunch of people in their uh their 20s and early 30s come up to him and he was talking about how he had a podcast, and they said, Oh, how do I get how do I find it?
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_00: And he had them pull out their phones, and they're all searching for some kind of app they could use.
• 24:27
  SPEAKER_00: And they said, Oh, well, do you have Spotify?
• 24:29
  SPEAKER_00: And he said, like 99% of them did.
• 24:31
  SPEAKER_00: He said, Oh, well, just search for this and boom, there it was.
• 24:33
  SPEAKER_01: Which is awesome.
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_00: So if we cater what we want to this expectation of what iTunes can provide us, we're looking at it wrong.
• 24:41
  SPEAKER_00: The biggest problem I think podcasters have is they're looking at trying to make this big splash right away and get all these people to listen and get all this feedback and sales or whatever, and it takes time.
• 24:53
  SPEAKER_00: It takes time.
• 24:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you've got to grow an audience from scratch, unless you've already got some kind of an email list, you've already got a brand out there, something big and successful.
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, I'm working with Natalie Bacon, who is a we'll call it like a lifestyle coach.
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_00: She's about to launch her podcast.
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_00: She's already got a brand, she's already got an audience, and a lot of those people are gonna try out the show, and probably a good portion of them are gonna start to subscribe to her show.
• 25:21
  SPEAKER_00: She's gonna get that.
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_00: But I even I even think her uh no, let me give you another example.
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_00: I've got a client, her name is Bobby Rebelle.
• 25:28
  SPEAKER_00: She used to work for Reuters, she's a journalist, she's done uh and continues to sometimes do work for like CNBC, and you know, so this is somebody who's got a high profile.
• 25:38
  SPEAKER_00: She launched a podcast in January, it's still not doing what we thought it would do.
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_00: She has a say a a I don't I don't want to say popularity.
• 25:50
  SPEAKER_00: She's she's known, but her podcast, and it's not that the podcast is bad, it's different, it's fantastic.
• 25:57
  SPEAKER_00: Um it's one of those that I point to when people talk about, you know, what do you see people doing that's interesting in the podcast space, but it's not getting the downloads that I think it should be getting.
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_00: However, she's seeing success in a completely different way, which I think works for her really well, is that she is getting high-profile guests.
• 26:17
  SPEAKER_00: So she's getting some people who, you know, are TV personalities.
• 26:22
  SPEAKER_00: And that's huge.
• 26:23
  SPEAKER_00: Uh yeah.
• 26:24
  SPEAKER_00: So she's getting them because she does a really good job keeping it short and keep it on point.
• 26:29
  SPEAKER_00: And I don't want to go into it, but so she may not be getting the results from the podcast that she wants, but she's getting results in other ways that are benefiting her.
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_01: Aaron Powell What are some some other ways that you think people can define their success as a podcaster?
• 26:43
  SPEAKER_01: You know, and this is very similar, I think, to being an author is you've got book sales, but you've also got other metrics that you use.
• 26:49
  SPEAKER_01: So what are the most important metrics as a podcaster that somebody could use to measure whether or not they're successful?
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_00: Aaron Powell To me it's audience engagement.
• 26:59
  SPEAKER_00: It's audience engagement.
• 27:00
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's seeing if people email you, if people retweet your stuff, post on your Facebook group, whatever, that engagement with a person that you you have no idea who they are.
• 27:10
  SPEAKER_00: You have no idea who they are because your listeners come to you find you somehow, and it probably wasn't from a personal introduction.
• 27:17
  SPEAKER_00: So how do you know this person who's listening to your show and says, oh, I listened to this and it was really great.
• 27:22
  SPEAKER_00: You brought up this great point, or they share it.
• 27:25
  SPEAKER_00: If you get a bunch of those, I think you're being successful in other ways.
• 27:29
  SPEAKER_00: You can't really measure that, but it that's kind of an indication you're doing something right.
• 27:33
  SPEAKER_00: Because if you can get somebody to talk about your show, you're gonna grow an audience and that audience is gonna serve you in some way.
• 27:39
  SPEAKER_01: That to me is such a key point because I think about the people that I follow closely, you know, whether I read their books or read their blog or engage with their business or bought something from them, whatever it is.
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_01: And most of the time I engage with them through a podcast.
• 27:56
  SPEAKER_01: That's one of the ways that I engage with them.
• 27:57
  SPEAKER_01: And there's something about listening to somebody when you're going for a walk or when you're in your car, you know, though, and those are not short shows, they're not just three or five minute YouTube videos.
• 28:07
  SPEAKER_01: It's this really intimate connection that you have with that person because it's a human connection, not just you're reading a blog or something like that.
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, that is such a key thing, that engagement and relationship and intimacy that you have with a podcaster.
• 28:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, if you think about it, you are literally centimeters from somebody's earbuds or eardrums when you're putting earbuds in, mowing the lawn, walking dogs, shoveling the snow.
• 28:31
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, of course, card speakers, it's not right there, but there's that intimate connection.
• 28:35
  SPEAKER_00: And I'll tell you, it's weird when you meet somebody who listens to your show and they're like, I feel like I know you.
• 28:44
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and I've done the same thing to Pat Flynn.
• 28:48
  SPEAKER_00: When I first met Pat Flynn, I was like, Oh my gosh, Pat, you're so awesome! And I'm talking to him kind of like I know him.
• 28:54
  SPEAKER_00: It's just, and I was I knew I knew I was being a fanboy there.
• 28:58
  SPEAKER_00: So I had to reel it back a bit to be not creepy guy, but I felt like I know him because I listened to smart passive income a lot.
• 29:05
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, me too.
• 29:06
  SPEAKER_01: I feel like I know the guy really well.
• 29:07
  SPEAKER_01: Of course, he doesn't know me except for maybe I think I posted a comment on his blog once or twice, but of course, thousands upon thousands of people have done that.
• 29:15
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, that is kind of a cool thing.
• 29:18
  SPEAKER_01: So, what are the best ways to begin building a podcast audience?
• 29:21
  SPEAKER_01: If somebody starts a show, you know, their show is is launched and so forth, what are some ways that they can really start to build an engaged audience?
• 29:29
  SPEAKER_00: Well, the I think the best place is you gotta find out where they are.
• 29:32
  SPEAKER_00: Where do they go, what do they do, what do they like, and try to be in that place as well.
• 29:37
  SPEAKER_00: And I can't give you a good example on what that is because it's so different for everybody.
• 29:42
  SPEAKER_00: It's just kind of weird.
• 29:43
  SPEAKER_00: And I don't want to point to social media.
• 29:45
  SPEAKER_00: Everybody points to social media as the place to go.
• 29:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, everybody's on Facebook, but for podcasts, most podcast consumers don't spend, you know, they don't spend their whole day on Facebook, of course, going to be in there checking in and doing stuff, but how do you find an audience on Facebook who doesn't consume long form content on Facebook?
• 30:02
  SPEAKER_00: When was the last time you watched a 10-minute video on Facebook?
• 30:06
  SPEAKER_00: It's been a while.
• 30:07
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 30:07
  SPEAKER_00: For me.
• 30:08
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, but the short ones with the text at the bottom?
• 30:11
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, one or two minutes.
• 30:13
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's not a podcast.
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_00: So that can that gets consumed all the time.
• 30:18
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, if you've got a uh, you know, one uh guy that I work with has a rock and roll podcast, so he finds people who will try out his show by going to concerts.
• 30:30
  SPEAKER_01: Interesting.
• 30:30
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 30:31
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 30:31
  SPEAKER_00: That's cool.
• 30:32
  SPEAKER_00: He'll just be there in the audience with other people and just up, you know, conversations come up and oh, you have a podcast about this.
• 30:40
  SPEAKER_00: Cool.
• 30:40
  SPEAKER_00: I'd like to try it out.
• 30:41
  SPEAKER_00: Well, here you go.
• 30:42
  SPEAKER_01: Something that I am increasingly seeing is people taking a little snippet of their show and putting it, you know, in social media.
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_01: Is that more of a common thing these days?
• 30:51
  SPEAKER_01: Like I see Dave Ramsey doing that.
• 30:53
  SPEAKER_01: His show's really long, but he'll he'll have like one question that he answers, and maybe it's a nine or ten minute thing or a five-minute thing.
• 31:00
  SPEAKER_01: Is that something that you think podcasters should be thinking more about?
• 31:02
  SPEAKER_01: Is take is taking these little snippets from their show and then using that as kind of like a little hook to get into the full episode.
• 31:09
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 31:09
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I do think that.
• 31:11
  SPEAKER_00: And again, we're gonna be pointing towards social media on this again, but I don't want to make that the main thing because you're gonna be spending a lot of time.
• 31:18
  SPEAKER_00: But I do think you can take uh there's there's something called an audiogram.
• 31:22
  SPEAKER_00: They're very easy to create, they don't take too much time, but you just take like a minute of your show and you can upload it to a service like Headliner or Get Waves or I think it's audiograms.com.
• 31:36
  SPEAKER_00: I forget the name.
• 31:37
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's right.
• 31:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and it will all actually transcribe the audio for you so it puts the text there at the bottom for you, and it's it makes it a little bit easier to use.
• 31:44
  SPEAKER_00: And you can just have a static image in the background and you can post that to social media places.
• 31:49
  SPEAKER_00: What I really like though is an idea of somehow getting that embedded on your website as a teaser in a blog post to then listen to your podcast.
• 31:57
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 31:58
  SPEAKER_00: And you can take that same, you know, you can use that same text to create some qu kind of a you know meme or a social image that you can then post on Twitter and Facebook and Instagram.
• 32:11
  SPEAKER_00: I well, really Instagram is more about pictures of people, but you if I hopefully you'll get the idea.
• 32:17
  SPEAKER_00: But you can reuse this content in little snippets, bits and places all over the place, and that will hopefully increase the visibility of somebody, you know, if it's not just a page full of text.
• 32:28
  SPEAKER_00: People like images, people like media players, video, they like that, and that's gonna help them stay on your site longer.
• 32:35
  SPEAKER_00: Hopefully that's one of your goals is getting people to your website to whatever it is that you're trying to do with your show, whether it's you know, lead generation or people you know join your membership course or whatever by your book, then you know, you want to point people to your website.
• 32:52
  SPEAKER_01: Is it okay for somebody to start a show and not really know what they want to get out of it?
• 32:57
  SPEAKER_01: You know, for example, if they're kind of new to podcasting or blogging or all this stuff, they don't have a course they want to sell, they don't have a book they want to promote.
• 33:05
  SPEAKER_01: Is it okay to go ahead and start when you don't have everything figured out?
• 33:09
  SPEAKER_00: When you don't have everything figured out, yes.
• 33:11
  SPEAKER_00: When you don't know why, no.
• 33:13
  SPEAKER_01: That's a good point.
• 33:14
  SPEAKER_01: Good distinction.
• 33:14
  SPEAKER_00: Do not start a podcast because, oh, it'd be fun, and I think I'd like to do it, and someday, blah, blah, blah.
• 33:19
  SPEAKER_00: No, you've got to have some general idea of what you want, but I will say, for the most part, that a lot of people start with this idea of what they want to do with the podcast, and it will change.
• 33:29
  SPEAKER_01: That's a great book.
• 33:30
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, and now tell me more about that.
• 33:32
  SPEAKER_01: I'm really intrigued in your response.
• 33:34
  SPEAKER_00: Well, let me ask you about your show, Kent.
• 33:36
  SPEAKER_00: You're on season two now.
• 33:37
  SPEAKER_00: I am on season two.
• 33:38
  SPEAKER_00: You've taken a long sabbatical since the last episode you released.
• 33:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 33:43
  SPEAKER_00: So what is different now than what you were doing before?
• 33:50
  SPEAKER_01: You know, the main thing, and I think that's a really good question, is the previous iteration of this podcast was an audio blog, and my sole concern there was to repurpose content I was already writing as a blog post.
• 34:01
  SPEAKER_01: And I just wanted to see what would happen with it.
• 34:04
  SPEAKER_01: I'm a natural teacher, I'm a college professor in my day job, I love teaching and breaking down concepts, coaching, helping people, that kind of stuff.
• 34:12
  SPEAKER_01: So that was kind of a natural thing for me.
• 34:14
  SPEAKER_01: However, once I did 50 episodes, it dawned on me that I'm just not getting much traction with this audio blog.
• 34:22
  SPEAKER_01: It was a it was an experiment anyway, so I really had no expectations.
• 34:26
  SPEAKER_01: But it was pretty time consuming, even though I was just doing an audio blog format.
• 34:30
  SPEAKER_01: So I took a break from that, set it aside.
• 34:32
  SPEAKER_01: But this born to create concept that this show is called has really stuck with me.
• 34:37
  SPEAKER_01: In fact, I'm working on a book that's called the same thing.
• 34:40
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm sort of branding myself with that whole born to create idea.
• 34:45
  SPEAKER_01: And over the past six months or so, I've really become more intentional about networking with people, and kind of a light bulb has gone off that, you know, relationships are like business-wise, they're so much more important than I ever realized.
• 34:58
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm trying to be more intentional with networking and connecting people and just serving people in that way.
• 35:04
  SPEAKER_01: And it just dawned on me that I need to do an interview show.
• 35:07
  SPEAKER_01: That's a great format, I think.
• 35:09
  SPEAKER_01: Then I can interview people and draw out those principles and use that as kind of a springboard to then teach teach those concepts to people and just make connections and it just seemed like there were there was a whole bunch of good things that could come out of it.
• 35:23
  SPEAKER_01: So that's kind of my story with that.
• 35:25
  SPEAKER_00: Well, you just kind of answered your own question then.
• 35:27
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 35:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 35:28
  SPEAKER_00: What you started off saying was I started the podcast because I like to teach and I had all this content which was given out there freely.
• 35:34
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, what were you expecting from people who were reading your blog before?
• 35:37
  SPEAKER_00: Were you expecting them to buy something, to sign up for an email list?
• 35:41
  SPEAKER_00: What was your expectation?
• 35:42
  SPEAKER_01: The main thing was an email list, but I didn't press that that hard.
• 35:47
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 35:47
  SPEAKER_00: So you love to teach.
• 35:49
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 35:50
  SPEAKER_00: Now that's still underlying what you're doing here.
• 35:52
  SPEAKER_00: You love to teach, and that's why you're providing this content for free to your listeners.
• 35:55
  SPEAKER_00: But your goal now is a little bit different because now you're coming up with a book.
• 35:59
  SPEAKER_00: There's this whole brand that you're building behind it.
• 36:01
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 36:02
  SPEAKER_00: And you're looking at growing this to be something that you're going to be able to monetize.
• 36:05
  SPEAKER_00: Now, a lot of times when you say monetize your podcast, people think, you know, they're just trying to sell something through your show, or you're trying to, you know, make money on advertisements and stuff like that.
• 36:15
  SPEAKER_00: One of the questions I asked my clients when they first come on board with me is what do you want from your podcast?
• 36:21
  SPEAKER_00: And the answer can completely be selfish, and it needs to be selfish.
• 36:26
  SPEAKER_00: Even though you want to get this content out there for free as a ministry, you want something out of it.
• 36:31
  SPEAKER_00: And that could simply be people signing up for your email list.
• 36:34
  SPEAKER_00: Because why?
• 36:35
  SPEAKER_00: You want to be able to communicate with them directly.
• 36:37
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 36:38
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 36:38
  SPEAKER_00: Why?
• 36:39
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, well then you can go further down that rabbit hole as to why do we want to communicate with them directly?
• 36:44
  SPEAKER_00: Is it to let them know that, hey, I've got this book, which you'd never really know about if you didn't listen to my podcast, and I'm laying it out there for you to buy it if you would like to, but I'm not forcing it on them, right?
• 36:55
  SPEAKER_00: Otherwise, you do that in your podcast.
• 36:56
  SPEAKER_00: You'd say, hey, buy my book, buy my book, buy my book.
• 36:59
  SPEAKER_00: That's not what you're doing.
• 37:00
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, it could be, you know, hey, I'm going to be opening up this.
• 37:03
  SPEAKER_00: Uh I remember you you were doing a course on Evernote.
• 37:06
  SPEAKER_00: So you're putting that out there.
• 37:08
  SPEAKER_00: You're doing a course on uh weight loss.
• 37:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, that's was gosh, five or six years ago.
• 37:15
  SPEAKER_01: I was on this kick of of weight loss stuff, and I'm actually working on that again right now.
• 37:20
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, I was on that kick for a while and thought, hey, let me try and put together this course that somehow relates fitness and creativity.
• 37:26
  SPEAKER_01: Didn't go anywhere, but but I learned a lot of things through it.
• 37:29
  SPEAKER_01: So that was working.
• 37:31
  SPEAKER_00: You were gonna do it anyway, and you brought people with you.
• 37:34
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 37:35
  SPEAKER_00: That's fantastic.
• 37:36
  SPEAKER_01: I'm impressed that you remember that.
• 37:38
  SPEAKER_01: Are you kidding me?
• 37:40
  SPEAKER_01: I barely remember that.
• 37:41
  SPEAKER_00: Someday I'm gonna go through them.
• 37:43
  SPEAKER_01: I'm so sorry.
• 37:45
  SPEAKER_01: Someday I I've considered going back to that content and thinking, you know, I've I basically wrote a whole book.
• 37:51
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I sent out all it was like a 40-day challenge.
• 37:53
  SPEAKER_01: I wrote like a 150-page book and it just is sitting on my hard drive, and I've done that several times.
• 37:58
  SPEAKER_01: I think this this is difficult to self-promote sometimes.
• 38:02
  SPEAKER_01: Those of us who love to create content, it's hard to then promote ourselves.
• 38:07
  SPEAKER_01: I guess we just have to get over that and realize that the best way to serve people is to create content and then market ourselves in a compelling way and all that good stuff.
• 38:14
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 38:15
  SPEAKER_00: And that and that's because you are doing it yourself.
• 38:17
  SPEAKER_00: You're not working for a company who's going to be putting out stuff that you help them create or you create and they take and they put their branding name on it.
• 38:24
  SPEAKER_00: Not saying that's wrong, because obviously they're giving you a paycheck, but you are in essence a entrepreneur, solopreneur in doing this, creating your own thing.
• 38:33
  SPEAKER_00: So who's gonna be the one to market you?
• 38:34
  SPEAKER_00: You.
• 38:35
  SPEAKER_00: Or you pay somebody else to do it for you.
• 38:36
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, exactly.
• 38:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 38:38
  SPEAKER_01: So you really have to change your mindset, especially me coming from more of a ministry vocational kind of setting, that's really hard to kind of get over yourself because you always feel bad about promoting yourself.
• 38:49
  SPEAKER_00: But then, you know, I'm gonna interrupt you there because that's how I felt about Money Plan SOS.
• 38:53
  SPEAKER_00: When I first started Money Plan SOS, it was there was a goal there to have the podcast out there to get people to who to get to know who I was before they called me for financial coaching help.
• 39:04
  SPEAKER_00: And over time I was like, okay, this is cool.
• 39:07
  SPEAKER_00: I'm getting some good success from it, but I'm not getting clients.
• 39:10
  SPEAKER_00: And I realized, oh, I really needed to make that the main focus was to get clients.
• 39:14
  SPEAKER_00: And I wasn't getting clients because I was trying to make a lot of money.
• 39:18
  SPEAKER_00: I was getting clients because I wanted to help them improve their financial life, which has that ministry aspect in the bottom of it.
• 39:24
  SPEAKER_00: I also do see the value of people paying for things because if you you you've probably seen it a dozen times.
• 39:30
  SPEAKER_00: You give somebody something for free.
• 39:32
  SPEAKER_00: Uh I'm the I'm the perfect example of this.
• 39:34
  SPEAKER_00: You gave me the uh the course, the the the health fit course through email.
• 39:38
  SPEAKER_00: It was no cost.
• 39:39
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 39:40
  SPEAKER_00: And what did I do with it?
• 39:41
  SPEAKER_00: I stored it.
• 39:42
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't use it.
• 39:43
  SPEAKER_00: Had I put some money up front and bought that, I heck would have gone through it.
• 39:48
  SPEAKER_00: I might have done something with it.
• 39:50
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, we don't value things that we get for free.
• 39:52
  SPEAKER_01: At least I I don't.
• 39:53
  SPEAKER_01: I and I think that's human nature.
• 39:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 39:56
  SPEAKER_00: Uh every time that we give a course away, I I lead FPU, Financial Peace University, Dave Ramsey's course.
• 40:01
  SPEAKER_00: I teach it at our church.
• 40:02
  SPEAKER_00: And every year we have a scholarship or somebody gets the kit for free, they can go for free.
• 40:07
  SPEAKER_00: Usually by the fourth or fifth lesson, they're gone.
• 40:09
  SPEAKER_00: They don't come anymore.
• 40:10
  SPEAKER_00: Wow.
• 40:11
  SPEAKER_00: But people who bought the kit, they're more likely to stick around at least to the end.
• 40:17
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that totally makes sense.
• 40:19
  SPEAKER_01: We we tend to be much more invested in things that we have to actually pay for.
• 40:24
  SPEAKER_01: So we've covered a lot of ground here, and there were three or four other topics and questions floating around in my mind, but they have just disappeared completely.
• 40:32
  SPEAKER_01: So I should have written them down just like in the last sixty seconds.
• 40:36
  SPEAKER_01: But let's say somebody is considering starting a show, they know it's gonna be a lot of work, they maybe have a clear idea about what they want to accomplish.
• 40:42
  SPEAKER_01: What are maybe two or three major takeaways if you had sixty seconds to give somebody?
• 40:48
  SPEAKER_01: Here are a few nuggets of advice, or here are the main things I would want to tell you about starting a show.
• 40:53
  SPEAKER_00: You gotta have a goal in mind.
• 40:55
  SPEAKER_00: What is it that you want to get out of this podcast?
• 40:58
  SPEAKER_00: Uh don't be afraid to make changes because it's gonna change on you regardless.
• 41:02
  SPEAKER_00: You're gonna do something different than you ever did before.
• 41:04
  SPEAKER_00: And of course, technology changes, so that gives you the capability of making changes easily and improve things.
• 41:10
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, that's really the goal of technology is to help improve things.
• 41:14
  SPEAKER_00: Don't expect too much ever.
• 41:19
  SPEAKER_00: That's a good point.
• 41:20
  SPEAKER_00: Not just right away, but ever.
• 41:21
  SPEAKER_00: And it's gonna take you six months to get some real traction.
• 41:24
  SPEAKER_00: You've gotta you gotta go in this with the long haul.
• 41:26
  SPEAKER_00: So don't do it if you just want to try it.
• 41:29
  SPEAKER_00: You can just try it, and it's really inexpensive to try it.
• 41:32
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it the microphones you and I are using, 70 bucks on Amazon.
• 41:36
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 41:37
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, you know, internet is well basically part of what you're already paying for, so you can't put that in the cost really.
• 41:42
  SPEAKER_00: Uh website, okay, you gotta have a website, so there's a cost there.
• 41:45
  SPEAKER_00: Um figuring out how to edit, there's a time uh time expense cost right there.
• 41:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 41:51
  SPEAKER_00: But really, if you think about it, if you've got the basic tools, you could start a podcast for less than a hundred bucks, and it's only gonna take twenty bucks a month to maintain it, maybe.
• 41:59
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, you could try it really easily.
• 42:02
  SPEAKER_00: But what do you want to get out of it?
• 42:04
  SPEAKER_00: And I do think you get what you pay for.
• 42:06
  SPEAKER_00: And with podcasting, since it's so inexpensive to start a podcast and to run a podcast, the real cost is time.
• 42:13
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 42:14
  SPEAKER_00: That's what it takes to make a successful podcast.
• 42:17
  SPEAKER_01: I totally agree with what you mentioned earlier about the four hour to one ratio.
• 42:22
  SPEAKER_01: So this show is about an hour long, 45 minutes to an hour long or so each episode.
• 42:27
  SPEAKER_01: And of course, I'm I'm just now launching, so you know, the time commitment up front to figure out the formats of everything and all that stuff that I'm gonna just be using kind of as a template.
• 42:37
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, I've invested a lot of time up front.
• 42:39
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, I think that's right on the four or five hours a week just to to put out an hour-long show that is quality, definitely.
• 42:47
  SPEAKER_00: And then you gotta promote it.
• 42:49
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, then there's that whole end of it.
• 42:51
  SPEAKER_01: Plus the blog posts, if you know, if you're using those and the social media and all that stuff.
• 42:55
  SPEAKER_01: I remember what I was gonna ask you earlier.
• 42:58
  SPEAKER_01: It was we so we were talking about the ministry aspect just a couple moments ago.
• 43:02
  SPEAKER_01: So there are some people listening to this who are either pastors or they're ministry leaders of some kind.
• 43:07
  SPEAKER_01: What is your take on churches using sermons as podcasts or maybe other ways that churches could use podcasting to help promote their mission?
• 43:17
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's great.
• 43:18
  SPEAKER_00: Because they're repurposing content they already have, they just had to record it in some way.
• 43:23
  SPEAKER_00: And for the most part, they're not really gonna be editing much.
• 43:26
  unknown: Yeah.
• 43:27
  SPEAKER_00: Because it's, you know, usually the person who's doing the sermon is a practiced speaker.
• 43:33
  SPEAKER_00: They've they've rehearsed, they've got their content right there.
• 43:36
  SPEAKER_00: It's not an interview like what we're doing.
• 43:38
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm not ummering my way around this conversation on a stage in front of a church congregation, right?
• 43:44
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, a lot of the verbal crutches are gone usually from people who are doing sermons.
• 43:49
  SPEAKER_00: So it's really easy to just repurpose that material.
• 43:52
  SPEAKER_00: Why not?
• 43:53
  SPEAKER_00: Why not make it into a video?
• 43:55
  SPEAKER_00: Create out some short snippets and put it on YouTube or on the website.
• 43:58
  SPEAKER_00: Uh obviously.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_00: You know, if they've got the sermon there, they could make a quick blog uh blog post out of the text.
• 44:04
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 44:05
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 44:05
  SPEAKER_00: So what do I think about it?
• 44:07
  SPEAKER_00: Go for it.
• 44:08
  SPEAKER_00: I don't uh I'll go back to again, I don't think they're gonna see thousands of downloads because the people who are gonna listen to a sermon that they didn't attend themselves at a church that they've never heard of is very, very low.
• 44:20
  SPEAKER_00: So you're not gonna get thousands of downloads.
• 44:22
  SPEAKER_00: But why not make a you know there for like the weeks when I'm out of town?
• 44:27
  SPEAKER_00: I need to go back to harvestercc.org, I forgot what the website is, and go back and watch the sermon that I missed last week.
• 44:34
  SPEAKER_00: Because I want that content.
• 44:36
  SPEAKER_00: So they're gonna get a, you know, I think they they put the video out there.
• 44:38
  SPEAKER_00: They don't do the podcast, unfortunately.
• 44:40
  SPEAKER_00: I would prefer that, but uh, you know, I've got to go back and find it because I want to be I want to be up on the series.
• 44:46
  SPEAKER_00: So it's really gonna be serving an audience that's already there, but it's giving them another way of doing it.
• 44:51
  SPEAKER_01: You know what is so interesting is, and by the way, for those who are listening, Steve and I both go to the same church, Harvester Christian Church in St.
• 44:57
  SPEAKER_01: Charles, Missouri.
• 44:59
  SPEAKER_01: And I've noticed that our teaching pastor, Nicomas Perez, that he's been doing more of those little snippets from his sermons, posting those on Facebook and social media.
• 45:08
  SPEAKER_01: And I happen to see, this has been just a few days ago, that on one of the recent little clips that he put up, it had two or three thousand views.
• 45:15
  SPEAKER_01: And it totally blew me away.
• 45:17
  SPEAKER_01: And I thought, wow, this is really, really cool.
• 45:20
  SPEAKER_01: So I hope that more churches start doing that kind of a thing because you know, people on Facebook, they're probably not going to watch a 30-minute sermon, but they will definitely watch a clip of two to three or maybe even five minutes, where you can kind of maybe pick the the highlights of the sermon or pick one key story or something.
• 45:37
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, it's that whole idea of repurposing content that is so helpful.
• 45:41
  SPEAKER_00: And the person who's ready to learn more will be the person who then goes back and watches the whole thing.
• 45:46
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, exactly.
• 45:47
  SPEAKER_00: And that's that's big right there.
• 45:50
  SPEAKER_00: That's why you know you will you are more likely to click on a tweet with an image that's kind of compelling than if it was just text.
• 45:59
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, absolutely.
• 46:00
  SPEAKER_00: Video.
• 46:01
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and you're gonna consume more then when you're there because you're like, oh, I want to learn more, I want to learn more.
• 46:05
  SPEAKER_00: So you have opened yourself to be a I I one of the reasons I like podcasting so much is because people are pre-qualifying themselves to be your potential client, buyer, customer, whatever.
• 46:16
  SPEAKER_00: They're pre-qualifying it.
• 46:17
  SPEAKER_00: So even if you get a thousand downloads, only one or two, three, maybe a couple dozen people are gonna do something.
• 46:23
  SPEAKER_00: But you've you did you did the same thing you would have done for a hundred people separately, you did it one time.
• 46:30
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, exactly.
• 46:31
  SPEAKER_00: And and you've expanded and and people five years down the road can go back and listen to this podcast that you're recording today and get the same value from it if they're willing to open up their mind and and search out and seek more.
• 46:43
  SPEAKER_01: Well, Steve, as we kind of wind this down, uh gosh, I really appreciate it.
• 46:47
  SPEAKER_01: This is so much great information, and as I'm launching my own show, this is super helpful.
• 46:52
  SPEAKER_01: Let me end with um with one, actually, two quick things.
• 46:55
  SPEAKER_01: One is a sort of technical thing where a major hurdle that I've had, because I'm sort of an analytical type of person, is figuring out, you know, is getting past all the decisions that you have to make when you launch a show.
• 47:08
  SPEAKER_01: So some of the people listening to this are that type of an analytical, very detailed person, and they're gonna get paralyzed by all the things that you have to decide up front.
• 47:16
  SPEAKER_01: One of the things that that we were talking about before we started this formal interview, the formal part of the interview, is how to title your episodes.
• 47:24
  SPEAKER_01: And this is something that gave me a lot of trouble, honestly, and I just pondered and pondered and pondered about it, as as crazy as that sounds.
• 47:31
  SPEAKER_01: So when someone is titling episodes for their show and deciding on the format, you mentioned not including episode numbers.
• 47:39
  SPEAKER_01: Um if they have a guest on, should they include the guest name first and then a title and or should it be the the other way around?
• 47:45
  SPEAKER_01: What do you see as the trends or the most effective ways to actually come up with the titles for episodes?
• 47:51
  SPEAKER_00: I would start with open up a podcast app on your smartphone and take a look at podcasts that are there.
• 47:58
  SPEAKER_00: And notice, first of all, how many characters are actually displayed.
• 48:02
  SPEAKER_00: And second of all, yeah, second of all, what titles are jumping out at you.
• 48:09
  SPEAKER_00: And that's really what you want to try and do is kind of mimic that.
• 48:13
  SPEAKER_00: You don't want to be a clickbaity title, but you need to get the keywords, the important stuff right away, because you only have twenty-five characters or whatever to get that point across before it's truncated, and you have to actually click into see more information about what that episode is.
• 48:29
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 48:29
  SPEAKER_00: So you gotta get to the point.
• 48:30
  SPEAKER_00: Same with the podcast, get to the point right away.
• 48:32
  SPEAKER_00: Don't don't belabor your introduction for five minutes and then say, okay, now we're starting.
• 48:37
  SPEAKER_00: You know, hey, the weather's great out here, and you know, traffic on the nines?
• 48:41
  SPEAKER_00: No, we don't do that in podcasting.
• 48:43
  SPEAKER_00: So think about that when you're doing just just giving your show a name.
• 48:48
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, born to create.
• 48:50
  SPEAKER_00: I know what the show's about, just from those three words.
• 48:52
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 48:53
  SPEAKER_00: Episode title, how to start a podcast.
• 48:56
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know, whatever you're gonna call this.
• 48:58
  SPEAKER_00: Do you have a title already drafted up for this?
• 49:00
  SPEAKER_00: Do you think?
• 49:00
  SPEAKER_01: I don't.
• 49:01
  SPEAKER_01: I I actually just I I do all the show notes first and do all the editing, and then I I draft several different titles, then I go with the one that I think is best.
• 49:10
  SPEAKER_00: Then then a clickbaity title that isn't inaccurate would be why not to start a podcast with Steve Stewart.
• 49:17
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 49:18
  SPEAKER_00: And then people are like, wait, wait, why do I need to know why not to start a podcast?
• 49:21
  SPEAKER_00: And guess what?
• 49:22
  SPEAKER_00: They're intrigued, they're gonna click, they're gonna listen.
• 49:24
  SPEAKER_00: It's it feels a little clickbaity, but it's actually what we're talking about, right?
• 49:28
  SPEAKER_00: That's what we click on, so what to expect when launching a podcast?
• 49:31
  SPEAKER_00: Why not?
• 49:32
  SPEAKER_00: What's it gonna cost you, or the root, you know, the true embedded costs of a podcast.
• 49:37
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, you know, and you can put the you uh you asked about the person's name.
• 49:40
  SPEAKER_00: I wouldn't include the name unless they have an audience already, because who knows, you know, Jacob John Smith, who is he?
• 49:48
  SPEAKER_00: But you can put it at the end of the title.
• 49:51
  SPEAKER_00: I do think you do that because it does help with some SEO.
• 49:54
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 49:55
  SPEAKER_00: And uh another trick you could use is get the name of the episode right at the beginning, but then if you want to include the guest name, because they're sort of known but not really known, then put their name at the beginning of the episode description.
• 50:10
  SPEAKER_00: The summary.
• 50:12
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 50:12
  SPEAKER_00: So you'll have you know, why not to start a podcast because it costs too much, and that's the title, but then the episode description would be Steve Stewart shares the five reasons for why you really shouldn't start a podcast, or something like that.
• 50:27
  SPEAKER_00: I'm just throwing don't please don't title it that.
• 50:30
  SPEAKER_00: But I'm just throwing ideas out there.
• 50:32
  SPEAKER_00: And that way you do get the name in there at the beginning.
• 50:36
  SPEAKER_00: If they've got some kind of a following, somebody might be more likely to click on that than the person who's like, Wow, who the heck is this Steve Stewart guy?
• 50:42
  SPEAKER_00: I have no idea.
• 50:43
  SPEAKER_00: Doesn't interest me, scroll past.
• 50:45
  SPEAKER_00: Well, at least we've got the keywords in the title of the episode.
• 50:48
  SPEAKER_00: That's what you're gonna want.
• 50:49
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 50:49
  SPEAKER_01: So some copywriting principles for sure going on there, which is awesome.
• 50:52
  SPEAKER_00: Nobody, none of your listeners know anything about that, so you'll have to educate them on it, right?
• 50:56
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's true.
• 50:58
  SPEAKER_01: Well, Steve, how can people connect with you and your work and maybe even hire you if they would like a podcast producer?
• 51:04
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I try to limit myself to working with two potential types of people.
• 51:08
  SPEAKER_00: One is a FinConnor, so you gotta be in the FinCon space for me to be uh your I want to say your client, you're my client, but I add it for you.
• 51:16
  SPEAKER_00: Uh but I do help people launch podcasts, so if they want to get through the technical stuff like you were talking about, just so they can get to their creative part, yeah, then they can contact me through my website, steve stewart.me.
• 51:26
  SPEAKER_00: And that's Steve, like you normally spell it, stewart s t e W A-R-T dot M-E.
• 51:32
  SPEAKER_00: And that's where they can find they can schedule a call with me and they get 30 minutes free.
• 51:36
  SPEAKER_01: Cool.
• 51:37
  SPEAKER_01: Well, Steve, thanks so much for your time on this episode.
• 51:39
  SPEAKER_01: I'm uh excited to get this out to people, and uh I appreciate your friendship and your expertise as well.
• 51:44
  SPEAKER_00: Hey, thanks, Kent.
• 51:45
  SPEAKER_00: I really appreciate you being out there helping people get creative.
• 51:48
  SPEAKER_01: I'll do my best.
• 51:52
  SPEAKER_01: Hey, I hope you enjoyed that interview with Steve Stewart.
• 51:55
  SPEAKER_01: Now, at the end of every interview, I always share three specific things that I learned from our guests, and these are key action steps that you can put into practice right away to start making a bigger impact in your life and creative work.
• 52:07
  SPEAKER_01: So let's dive in.
• 52:08
  SPEAKER_01: Number one is that knowing your purpose and goals is critical to starting a podcast.
• 52:14
  SPEAKER_01: It's not enough just to want to start a podcast.
• 52:17
  SPEAKER_01: If you don't have an overarching purpose or a message that you want to share, you're gonna quickly burn out because podcasting is time consuming and often kind of exhausting.
• 52:27
  SPEAKER_01: So you need to know up front why you want to do a show and what you want to get out of it.
• 52:32
  SPEAKER_01: Number two, decide in advance how you're going to measure your success in podcasting.
• 52:37
  SPEAKER_01: And this is critical because unless you're a celebrity or somebody who's really well known, you'll probably not have a ton of downloads when you launch your show.
• 52:45
  SPEAKER_01: At least not immediately.
• 52:47
  SPEAKER_01: Steve was absolutely right when he said that you should measure your success by your audience engagement.
• 52:52
  SPEAKER_01: You have to play the long game in podcasting and work on growing your audience through providing consistently great content and through building relationships.
• 53:02
  SPEAKER_01: And number three, you must make a commitment to stick with it over the long term.
• 53:06
  SPEAKER_01: The Born to Create Podcast, for example, is actually my third podcast, and what you're listening to now is actually the second version of this show.
• 53:15
  SPEAKER_01: So I definitely did not get this right from the beginning.
• 53:18
  SPEAKER_01: However, with this show, I've stuck with it, I've kind of figured it out as I've gone along, and hopefully the results are something that uh people enjoy.
• 53:27
  SPEAKER_01: It's really easy to give up when the excitement of creating a new podcast has worn off.
• 53:31
  SPEAKER_01: And I know that feeling all too well because that's happened to me many times.
• 53:36
  SPEAKER_01: And when that happens, all you have in front of you is the actual work that it takes to produce the podcast.
• 53:42
  SPEAKER_01: But if you stick with it, you're going to outlast a lot of other people, and you will build an audience over time if you, again, if you provide consistently good content and you work on your audience engagement.
• 53:54
  SPEAKER_01: Well, friends, that wraps up this episode of the Born to Create Podcast.
• 53:57
  SPEAKER_01: Those are some quick tips, and I hope that they were valuable for you.
• 54:01
  SPEAKER_01: You can find the show notes for this episode at KentStanders.net slash Steve.
• 54:06
  SPEAKER_01: This episode was produced by me and my associate producer, my son, Ben Sanders.
• 54:12
  SPEAKER_01: If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe and leave a rating and a review on Apple Podcasts.
• 54:17
  SPEAKER_01: You can do that by going to KentSanders.net slash iTunes.
• 54:22
  SPEAKER_01: And if you enjoyed this episode, please consider sharing it with a friend or a family member who you think would enjoy it.
• 54:28
  SPEAKER_01: You can find lots more resources to help you unlock your creativity at Kentstanders.net.
• 54:33
  SPEAKER_01: Until next time, remember that you were born to create and designed to make a difference.
• 54:38
  SPEAKER_01: Now go create something awesome.