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Bernice Chao: Mastering the Mindset of Bold Visibility · The Bold Lounge

• 0:07
  Speaker 1: Welcome to the Bold Lounge podcast.
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: My name is Leigh Burgess and I will be your host.
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: If you're anything like me, you love hearing inspiring stories of people who have gone on bold journeys and made a positive impact in the world.
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: This podcast is all about those kinds of stories.
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: Every week, we'll hear from someone who has taken a leap or embarked on an extraordinary journey.
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: In addition to hearing their stories, we'll also learn about their bold growth mindset that they use to make things happen.
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: Whether they face challenges or doubts along the way, they persisted and ultimately achieved their goals.
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: These impactful stories will leave you feeling motivated and inspired to pursue your own bold journey.
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: I believe everyone has a bold story waiting to be freed.
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: Tune in and get ready to be inspired.
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: Welcome to the Bold Lounge.
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: Today I have Bernice Chow.
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: She's an award-winning creative who has worked on the world's top brands.
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: She is among the new female Asian American creative leaders in the industry and is helping to shape the AANHAPI community through Asians in advertising, a global non-profit organization that inspires the next generation of talent through its podcast events, mentorship and scholarship programs.
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: Chow has authored the award-winning bestseller the Visibility Mindset, which we'll talk about today, and has given talks on over 100 stages, including South by Southwest, world Bank and Cannes.
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: She is a professor at Loyola Marymount University and the president of TEDx Culver City.
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: Bernice has been inducted into the AAF Hall of Achievement and she runs it Working Mother of the Year Award from AdColor Catalyst Award.
• 1:46
  Speaker 1: Thank you so much for being on the Bold Lounge, bernice.
• 1:49
  Speaker 1: Thanks for having me Leigh so excited to jump into what being bold means to you.
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: What is your definition of bold?
• 1:57
  Speaker 2: I think this is such a wonderful question and for me it's really about the courage to take those risks.
• 2:01
  Speaker 2: What that means is that effort it takes to kind of venture outside your comfort zone, that confidence of not backing down to any of the goals or ideas or values, even in times that could be uncertain or kind of tough, persevering through those moments with that courage and determination.
• 2:17
  Speaker 2: I was listening to Mel Robbins because she's so inspiring and I just love she has this one quote that's like confidence is created by the small things you do every single day.
• 2:26
  Speaker 2: That builds that trust within yourself.
• 2:28
  Speaker 2: And one of those questions where I was like really thinking about when you asked me this question and it was like I wasn't taught to be bold and so this idea of what that boldness is to me is really that confidence every day for me to go okay, why am I backing down from this?
• 2:45
  Speaker 2: Why do I feel like I don't want to try this thing, whether that's me being a you know later stage female trying to get on a skateboard with my son, you know my first thing is like oh no, I can't do that.
• 2:58
  Speaker 2: Why?
• 2:58
  Speaker 2: Why would I think I could do that?
• 3:00
  Speaker 2: I'm not that coordinated anyway, but that boldness of like, oh, okay, taking a pause and go, okay, what's the worst that could happen?
• 3:06
  Speaker 2: I'm wearing pads, right, I'm not going to get really hurt, but what's the best that could happen?
• 3:10
  Speaker 2: I might have a hidden talent or not.
• 3:14
  Speaker 2: I might rock it, or you know at least I can pedal around my son right.
• 3:18
  Speaker 1: Yeah, or you'll fall and you'll get back up right.
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: So so much to be learned.
• 3:26
  Speaker 1: And, and on top of that, your, your son's, just probably thinks you're cool.
• 3:28
  Speaker 1: You know, that's probably the most important thing.
• 3:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah, he's like I'm mom.
• 3:30
  Speaker 2: I'm still better, of course, that's okay.
• 3:33
  Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure I love what you said there.
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: You weren't taught to be bold, and sometimes we have influences of boldness around us that we notice or that we're aware of, but no one says hey, today we're going to take bold lesson 101.
• 3:47
  Speaker 1: And I think that's something that you could be bolder as you get older.
• 3:52
  Speaker 1: You could be bold and be quiet, and you have these quiet moments of boldness which I talk about like nobody knows, and on social media they're really you know, things you've decided for yourself or actions you've taken, you know.
• 4:05
  Speaker 1: So I think it's building that trust in yourself that you talked about, and then next time it gets easier and easier to do right, would you say that it's easier the more you practice being bold.
• 4:17
  Speaker 2: Yes, I definitely think it comes with practice.
• 4:19
  Speaker 2: I always talk about, even with my nonprofit, with agents and advertising, how much, culturally, it's not a thing to be bold.
• 4:25
  Speaker 2: So my parents came here as immigrants in the 70s.
• 4:29
  Speaker 2: They, of course, you know, received some maybe off-color comments about who they were.
• 4:33
  Speaker 2: So they were always taught to shrink.
• 4:35
  Speaker 2: Especially in a country where you're taught to be like everyone else, being bold is the opposite of what you do.
• 4:41
  Speaker 2: And so, as a generation taught to my generation, or to me in particular, I was taught to fit in.
• 4:49
  Speaker 2: I was taught to be invisible yeah, to not, you know, ruffle feathers, to not go against the grain, to not be that tall poppy.
• 4:57
  Speaker 2: We, you know, we have sayings like the tallest bamboo gets cut or the tallest nail gets hammered down, or the loudest duck gets shot.
• 5:03
  Speaker 2: We have a lot of those sayings for being smaller.
• 5:07
  Speaker 2: And so when things come up that you're like, should I do this or should I not do this, I think the first reaction is maybe I shouldn't.
• 5:13
  Speaker 2: Or who am I to do that?
• 5:15
  Speaker 2: Or can I even do that?
• 5:16
  Speaker 2: What makes me think I could?
• 5:18
  Speaker 2: Right?
• 5:19
  Speaker 2: And I think there's all that you know brain chattering of, like all the ways you're talking yourself out of things.
• 5:25
  Speaker 2: So I do think being bold is that daily practice of like, where's this coming from?
• 5:30
  Speaker 2: Right, being like, okay, can I do this thing?
• 5:32
  Speaker 2: And you'd be like, okay, you know, even listing out the ways that you can do it or the skills that you have that do support, that you can go, okay.
• 5:40
  Speaker 1: And then what's the worst, yeah, one of the things Marcus Collins said one time was like who do you think you are as you were talking?
• 5:47
  Speaker 1: That's what I was thinking about him and talking about that it's like you, you're Bernice Chow, and like you're going to do it and you're going to make that move and you're going to stand up and you're going to be visible and not invisible.
• 5:56
  Speaker 1: So I love that about your definition.
• 5:59
  Speaker 2: And shout out to Dr Marcus he's amazing.
• 6:08
  Speaker 1: Full stop, as he would say yeah.
• 6:09
  Speaker 1: So from the perspective of like your definition and leaning in and building the trust and being visible and and stepping out there, what's a bold moment that resonates for you comes up when you think about your definition.
• 6:17
  Speaker 2: Yes, One of those things that we talked about is that brain that tells you you can't do something.
• 6:21
  Speaker 2: And something I know I cannot do is sing.
• 6:24
  Speaker 2: That is just not a natural gift.
• 6:33
  Speaker 2: Maybe you just not sing well.
• 6:34
  Speaker 2: I don't sing well.
• 6:34
  Speaker 2: My husband can definitely attribute to that.
• 6:35
  Speaker 2: I just don't sing well, and so I knew that.
• 6:36
  Speaker 2: I was like that's just not a skill set I had, and so in high school I was like you know what the community college is down the street?
• 6:42
  Speaker 2: I'm going to sign myself for an opera lesson.
• 6:44
  Speaker 2: Let me just put myself in the deep end with something that I'm kind of uncomfortable with, and it was so intimidating.
• 6:50
  Speaker 2: You sit on stage by yourself with a piano accompanist and then you're supposed to just go in a different language, and it just threw me completely outside my comfort zone and I still think back about like that was pretty brave that I did that.
• 7:05
  Speaker 1: I don't do any of that today.
• 7:07
  Speaker 2: But I think sometimes I like to throw myself into those situations like myself back up, like I'm like okay, in 2015, I did an Ironman and I'm not an athletic person.
• 7:16
  Speaker 2: I could not ride a bike pre 30.
• 7:19
  Speaker 2: I was just like you know what, let me.
• 7:21
  Speaker 2: Just why can't I do that?
• 7:23
  Speaker 2: Who's telling me I can't figure it out?
• 7:25
  Speaker 2: And just having those little challenges really helps kind of get me out of my skin, yeah, out of that moment of telling myself I can't.
• 7:34
  Speaker 2: And sometimes they're physical challenges, sometimes they're, you know, career challenges, whatever that may be, but really thinking what's the worst that can happen?
• 7:45
  Speaker 2: I don't cross that finish line.
• 7:46
  Speaker 2: I don't.
• 7:47
  Speaker 2: You know, I fail an opera class.
• 7:49
  Speaker 2: It's not the worst.
• 7:50
  Speaker 1: Yeah, no, I love one thing is, like you said wake yourself up, like wake yourself up with a challenge or a moment of being out of your comfort zone, doing something that's maybe against a convention or expectation of others.
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: The wake-up call really comes by being visible, by putting yourself out there and people see you succeed.
• 8:10
  Speaker 1: And you said little things.
• 8:11
  Speaker 1: I think an Ironman is kind of a big thing, so like a 5K that's a little thing, but Ironman that's a little larger.
• 8:18
  Speaker 1: But being on stage and trying opera and knowing that you felt you really weren't good at singing, I think, again, it kind of puts yourself out there and makes yourself visible.
• 8:27
  Speaker 1: So, as you think about just the things that you've done to be bold and create the nonprofit that you're running and do the things that are really encouraging others to be visible, what made you want to do that?
• 8:38
  Speaker 1: Not only be visible for you, but you want to help others be seen and know that it's okay to put themselves out there, be bold and go to opera class or try that job or go for that role or, you know, break up with that relationship that isn't working.
• 8:54
  Speaker 1: What made you want to do it on a larger scale?
• 8:57
  Speaker 2: I mean, I definitely didn't think about it as what it is today.
• 9:00
  Speaker 2: But there was that moment where you know I'm in a path in advertising, so I'm a creative director in advertising.
• 9:07
  Speaker 2: It doesn't look too different than it did in the Mad Men days.
• 9:10
  Speaker 2: So if you watch the TV show it was very white and very male and especially in the creative department, I was always the outsider.
• 9:18
  Speaker 2: I was always the one female on a team, I was the one non-white person on a team, I was the only Asian or the only mother, and it really was interesting how it affected my career, because in a creative path you're really as good as your last project and so if you're not the person that they bring you onto the project where they sign that project, you can kind of see your career get stunted pretty fast.
• 9:40
  Speaker 2: And so midway through my career, that moment of like what is happening, I'm exercising my voice, I'm asking to be on these things, I'm trying extra hard and nothing is working, and it kind of gave me that realization that I spent my twenties really trying to fit in.
• 9:54
  Speaker 2: And then my thirties I kind of realized I wasn't fooling anyone.
• 9:58
  Speaker 2: And in my forties I was like, okay, we got to look at what's happening.
• 10:03
  Speaker 2: How can we close these gaps?
• 10:05
  Speaker 2: How do we bring values into those places where I saw those holes?
• 10:09
  Speaker 2: And knowing that maybe I have the chance to fix those things.
• 10:12
  Speaker 2: And so, in 2019, I was like, okay, what is going on?
• 10:17
  Speaker 2: Right?
• 10:18
  Speaker 2: Who do I talk to about this?
• 10:20
  Speaker 2: Who can I tell them that I feel like I'm not being heard, I'm not being seen.
• 10:24
  Speaker 2: Nothing I'm doing is working.
• 10:26
  Speaker 2: And I scoured the internet.
• 10:28
  Speaker 2: I was like where is there a community of people I can talk to?
• 10:30
  Speaker 2: Because people, clearly, where I'm working, aren't really ready to talk about this.
• 10:34
  Speaker 2: I didn't really have mentors, because there's few and far people that are like me, even as females right, and we started a family plan and I was like, okay, definitely haven't seen a mom in this job.
• 10:44
  Speaker 2: And so when I looked out on the internet of things, I didn't see a community that I felt like would be inclusive of me.
• 10:53
  Speaker 2: Even on the boards, I didn't see anyone that rested with my cultural background.
• 10:57
  Speaker 2: And so I was looking around my office and I was like, well, there's four of us, which is still pretty decent.
• 11:02
  Speaker 2: I work in Los Angeles.
• 11:04
  Speaker 2: It should be a little bit more diverse.
• 11:06
  Speaker 2: And I was like, okay, let's start a community.
• 11:08
  Speaker 2: Let's start a community.
• 11:10
  Speaker 2: We just have these honest conversations.
• 11:12
  Speaker 2: I've already hosted I think, about eight years of TED conferences at this point localized TEDx, culver City conferences and I was like we'll just like put together a panel, we'll just come together and have these chats.
• 11:22
  Speaker 2: And you know, we talked about earlier how making space is really uncomfortable culturally for Asians.
• 11:27
  Speaker 2: And so, by the fourth time of gathering this idea of like who are we right?
• 11:32
  Speaker 2: Who are we to do this?
• 11:33
  Speaker 2: Like, do we deserve this?
• 11:35
  Speaker 2: Are we going to get in trouble?
• 11:36
  Speaker 2: And it went away.
• 11:38
  Speaker 2: So 2019, nothing happened.
• 11:40
  Speaker 2: It was a mission statement, it was a URL, it was an idea.
• 11:43
  Speaker 2: And it wasn't until 2021 where I saw the rhetoric of what was happening with a lot of the Asian hate crimes.
• 11:51
  Speaker 2: And I always talk about that moment where I was watching CNN.
• 11:54
  Speaker 2: I think a lot of us during the pandemic had just had the TV on all the time and we're like what's going to happen next?
• 11:59
  Speaker 2: And there was a segment about ailing communities from COVID and it was like white, black, hispanic, that's it.
• 12:05
  Speaker 2: And then Asians were really clearly on the other side when it was talking about Wuhan China virus and I just was like oh, it's not me who feels silenced in the workplace, it's not me who just doesn't have a voice, who feels invisible, it's a whole community.
• 12:20
  Speaker 2: And so it got me thinking.
• 12:21
  Speaker 2: I'm already paying for this URL for the last two years, now three years.
• 12:25
  Speaker 2: Why don't we just put something simple on it?
• 12:27
  Speaker 2: Let's just put a website.
• 12:28
  Speaker 2: What's the worst that could happen?
• 12:30
  Speaker 2: Right, or what's the best that could happen?
• 12:32
  Speaker 2: And I was like the best thing that can happen is just a couple of people joining us for a Zoom chat.
• 12:37
  Speaker 2: And back then in 2021, it was still kind of new and we were shocked, and I was working with Jessalyn Lamb, who at that time was really specialized in DEI, to kind of bring this forward.
• 12:48
  Speaker 2: And so that very first Zoom chat we had 650 people sign up.
• 12:53
  Speaker 2: Two and a half years later it's now 6,000.
• 12:55
  Speaker 2: And we could say people joined us globally.
• 12:58
  Speaker 2: And so the idea of what the worst that can happen and what the best that can happen best thing that could happen is you have an amazing community.
• 13:05
  Speaker 2: Worst thing no one shows up and you figure out some other way.
• 13:09
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you created a space for people to feel visible, to be connected and to be themselves, which I think is one of the most beautiful things when someone's creating a community.
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: We have all these different mindsets we hear about right the, the fixed mindset, the athlete mindset.
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: What is the definition of a visibility mindset?
• 13:30
  Speaker 2: that's a great question.
• 13:31
  Speaker 2: It's just to have when you go into that room, what?
• 13:35
  Speaker 2: How do you make yourself visible, whether that's online, whether it's at your job, every day?
• 13:40
  Speaker 2: What's that room?
• 13:40
  Speaker 2: How can you make sure that when you show up, that you have that presence?
• 13:44
  Speaker 2: So, for instance, I talk about how I used to go into these rooms and I'd be like taking notes.
• 13:49
  Speaker 2: I'm like, look, I'm like so diligent, I'm taking notes, but in the end I'm not being visible because I didn't say anything.
• 13:55
  Speaker 2: It wasn't a presence in a room, I was like a wallflower in the room.
• 13:59
  Speaker 2: So, having that visibility mindset is really going to the room and go.
• 14:02
  Speaker 2: How can I be seen?
• 14:03
  Speaker 2: In this moment you don't have to take out all the air from the room, but just to be able to speak up once.
• 14:09
  Speaker 2: Right, to add a question into the room, to add a point of value, is really the idea of the visibility mindset.
• 14:16
  Speaker 2: How can you make sure that people understand your value or that you're communicating it, even if it is being able to talk, you know, talk about your skill set in one line.
• 14:25
  Speaker 2: What is that value proposition that you have so that people can effectively talk about you to someone else?
• 14:31
  Speaker 2: Is?
• 14:31
  Speaker 1: there a formula for visibility?
• 14:33
  Speaker 1: Like you said, you don't want to go in and overtake a room or you know, it's a balance and I think sometimes for someone that may be just starting to say, okay, I really want to be more visible than I am.
• 14:44
  Speaker 1: Is there a formula like how they start or kind of the best way to start, like you said, maybe just asking a question or saying I'll take that follow-up or whatever?
• 14:55
  Speaker 1: Maybe do you have other examples of how to initiate it and get it going and do you feel this is the second part of the question?
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: Do you feel like it's harder for women, and then particularly harder for Asian women?
• 15:08
  Speaker 2: Great.
• 15:08
  Speaker 2: Well, first, if you are in a Zoom or virtual world, having your camera on, that's the first thing to step to being visible, being seen.
• 15:15
  Speaker 2: And then for women, I do think, or and especially Asian women it's really hard to interrupt If people are going and it's maybe very dominating male voices and they're kind of encouraging each other and they're just kind of going and layering on top of each other.
• 15:29
  Speaker 2: I think sometimes for women it's really hard to be like okay, when do I, when do I like step into this conversation?
• 15:34
  Speaker 2: Yeah and so, yeah, how do I like interrupt these people?
• 15:37
  Speaker 2: They're just having their own sidebar right, zoom is really wonderful.
• 15:40
  Speaker 2: You could just hit that emoji button.
• 15:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I'll sometimes just write it in the chat.
• 15:44
  Speaker 2: If I feel like I'm just getting steamrolled, I'll just write it.
• 15:46
  Speaker 2: I'm like okay, but I think it's really important just to like make sure that you're being heard, don't feel like you're being silenced.
• 15:54
  Speaker 2: There's so many tools like that.
• 15:56
  Speaker 2: It's also good just to have a friend call on you.
• 15:58
  Speaker 2: Like, if you're like, if I can be like Lee on the side, can you just like throw it to me?
• 16:03
  Speaker 2: Can you just call on me?
• 16:05
  Speaker 2: Or just like jump in If I know you're better at interrupting than I am or getting in there you can throw to each other.
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: What do you think, Bernice?
• 16:11
  Speaker 1: You know like.
• 16:12
  Speaker 1: I did the conversation.
• 16:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah, lee had a great idea earlier.
• 16:16
  Speaker 2: You know, lee, you want to share it with the group, right?
• 16:18
  Speaker 2: Like there's so many ways we can call on each other and help each other in the room and you can have a male ally too that can help you with that.
• 16:25
  Speaker 2: Or a manager would be like hey, manager, I don't know how to get in here.
• 16:29
  Speaker 2: Can you just like call on me, can I present this thing?
• 16:31
  Speaker 2: You can have help.
• 16:32
  Speaker 2: Don't feel like it's all on you to figure it out.
• 16:35
  Speaker 2: I know people that actually put like post-it notes on their computer that say just speak.
• 16:39
  Speaker 2: So even if you're like really uncomfortable sharing something new, you could be like oh, what's success look like for this?
• 16:44
  Speaker 2: Right, that's not a question that will throw you outside your comfort zone and it shows that you're excited about the project.
• 16:50
  Speaker 1: No, how would we measure that?
• 16:51
  Speaker 1: Or something like that's usually one that I think people can use to kind of enter it, Because everyone wants to maybe talk about how we would measure the success or think about, you know, if we're moving forward, what it looks like.
• 17:01
  Speaker 1: I love that.
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: So there's different on-ramps to being visible in that way.
• 17:12
  Speaker 1: What other ways can we be visible?
• 17:13
  Speaker 1: A meeting is one in our workplace.
• 17:14
  Speaker 1: Are you finding that?
• 17:14
  Speaker 1: You know we need to step up and be seen?
• 17:16
  Speaker 1: What other places can we be visible and what are the best on-ramps for that?
• 17:21
  Speaker 2: Well, there's so many things that we can do that we don't have to wait for someone to give us the permission or someone else to talk about us.
• 17:27
  Speaker 2: For instance, create a website, put all your skill sets on something, say that you are great at these things, so that when you interview for a job or when you know, maybe you're going into a client meeting and they Google you ahead of time.
• 17:40
  Speaker 2: It's all there, it's on your LinkedIn.
• 17:42
  Speaker 2: It just puts your qualifications in a place that people can identify right away.
• 17:47
  Speaker 2: So, being in advertising and knowing that my counterparts are usually about a foot and a half taller than me, it does really helpful when I have a book, a portfolio, something that talks about my work.
• 17:58
  Speaker 2: So, for instance, I walked into a global brand that focuses on fitness right, so I worked on Under Armour and I walked into the room and it's predominantly male and predominantly white and I walk into the room.
• 18:12
  Speaker 2: They see, you know, I'm a little over five feet tall, I'm not big, and I have to come in there going.
• 18:17
  Speaker 2: Okay, I am the expert in this and so anything I can do ahead of time whether that's my website, my LinkedIn, even the very first page of that deck or that second page where we talk about the team I can list my creditations in this field.
• 18:31
  Speaker 2: I could say that I'd done an Ironman, so I may not play football but I do know something about a sports mindset.
• 18:38
  Speaker 2: So anything you can kind of do to set you up ahead of time in that meeting and these things that you can control, I would say that's a great way to kind of put out your skill set ahead of time.
• 18:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah, one of the things you talk about in the book is microaggressions, and I bet there are people listening who have experienced them.
• 18:57
  Speaker 2: So if you have an example of one you've experienced and how you dealt with it using your visibility mindset as well as kind of your boldness, yes, well, microaggressions, it's basically an insult, right, and I would say a microaggressions is as easily as because you are this, therefore you are that, because you are Asian, therefore you are quiet which is based on a stereotype, an unconscious bias, right, where that happens you know whether it was with my work you can't put an Asian in that spot because we don't want to be seen as foreign and I'm like why can't Asians just be Americans?
• 19:34
  Speaker 2: Or we should cast for ambiguous Right, like saying those things are kind of like a little bit of a microaggression.
• 19:41
  Speaker 2: The community and advertising is really evolving, trying to really focus on, you know, ethnic specific stories and diversity of talent.
• 19:53
  Speaker 2: I do think it's gotten a lot better.
• 19:54
  Speaker 2: But in the workplace I'll still hear things like I was just saying recently I heard oh, the clients are going to Shanghai us, and I was like whoa, did you just use a city in China to say that our clients are going to scam us?
• 20:02
  Speaker 2: Or I'll be in a meeting and be like, oh, we should open our kimonos and and I was like whoa.
• 20:08
  Speaker 2: But I'll still hear phrases like that or I'm kind of like a little taken aback.
• 20:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and so it should be.
• 20:15
  Speaker 2: Yeah, those are totally inappropriate and I do think you know I still get a little tongue tied in those moments.
• 20:22
  Speaker 2: What, if probably?
• 20:24
  Speaker 1: like you can't believe it's happening, like hey, it's 2024.
• 20:27
  Speaker 1: Like, did you really just say that?
• 20:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and sometimes you're in the middle of a meeting or a client meeting or a group meeting, so it feels really inappropriate to stop right then and be like whoa, not cool, yeah.
• 20:37
  Speaker 2: And so microaggressions, you know, with that it's like finding the right place and the right tactic to kind of have those conversations in the moment or afterwards.
• 20:47
  Speaker 2: I do think is really important.
• 20:48
  Speaker 2: And with microaggressions they say they're like mosquito bites right, you might get one, it doesn't get really itchy, but then if you get them all the time, it gets really annoying.
• 21:01
  Speaker 2: And so you know that phrase death by a thousand paper cuts.
• 21:02
  Speaker 2: Microaggressions can be a lot more for some people.
• 21:04
  Speaker 2: So while sometimes some be like, oh, that was just something I said, it was a mistake, but it might be the hundredth one for them Exactly.
• 21:11
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 21:11
  Speaker 1: So the best way to deal with that is to find the time and place or the space to say that really offended me or that really was inappropriate, and finding that right space and place of time sooner than later, and I know that's easier said than done.
• 21:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I was going to say yeah, if you have the courage to do that.
• 21:29
  Speaker 2: You may not be in the right space to do that or you don't feel comfortable.
• 21:32
  Speaker 2: Yeah, for me I still feel really uncomfortable addressing it, but I know that I'm creating a much safer work environment for the next person.
• 21:39
  Speaker 2: By saying that, I'm showing the person that said it compassion, so that they know that they're saying it, because I really truly believe that they just don't know.
• 21:49
  Speaker 2: Right, I have a really good friend and she's from the UK and one day she was with her two-year-old we both had our two-year-olds and she was like my son speaks like a China man.
• 21:57
  Speaker 2: And I was like what?
• 21:59
  Speaker 2: And she didn't know.
• 22:01
  Speaker 2: She comes from a place where that's a phrase for kids who can't, or that's how you say about someone who can't speak.
• 22:06
  Speaker 2: Well, it's just, that's their colloquial term for it.
• 22:08
  Speaker 2: And I had to.
• 22:09
  Speaker 2: Just, you know, I didn't say anything in that moment, I was totally taking it back.
• 22:13
  Speaker 2: But I thought about it and I was like, if I act from a place of really being a friend, you know A as a friend, I'm uncomfortable.
• 22:23
  Speaker 2: Right, I don't want to be uncomfortable with my friend.
• 22:24
  Speaker 2: I want to feel like we can have an honest conversation.
• 22:25
  Speaker 2: So I brought it up.
• 22:26
  Speaker 2: It was a semi-difficult explanation but she really understood and then she got to learn and we got to stay really close friends and so knowing that having that hard, harder conversation may be difficult but could absolutely be worth it.
• 22:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 22:41
  Speaker 1: So coming from a positive place, so positive presupposition about what someone said, for the most part I know that sometimes it may not be, but how you handle it, coming from that angle can help you and then deciding what's the moment to address it and when the moments are just not to, and how you may either remove yourself from those future moments with that individual that you can't really address them with right, if you can.
• 23:04
  Speaker 1: But it is important to realize, you know, and for us to realize that they're out there and that we need to own our part in being educated and understand that and also understand that when they happen, like, own it, you know, like that's part of the bold framework.
• 23:18
  Speaker 1: The second letter is O and it's own like when you make a mistake or you do something in error, own it, learn from it and then move forward, and I think that's one of the things when it comes to microaggressions that we need to remember Absolutely.
• 23:32
  Speaker 1: So one of the things you said in pre-tape was that you were an introvert, as am I, and one of the things that you know I've created events and spaces for people to come together, like the bold table or the bold retreat in smaller groups, and to have deeper level conversations.
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: So, like the big networking and doing things at the you know stand up cocktail table with a name tag and a prompt, it's just not my jam Like it, just I can do it, I can make myself do it, but it's just not where I find a lot of joy and, honestly, a lot of value.
• 24:01
  Speaker 1: So one of the things you talk about in the book is the power of networking and what it takes to be visible.
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: When you're networking, however you do it, because those events I just talked about still exist and we might find other events, like your event you have coming up, that create a different space or place for people to feel connected.
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: But when you have the visibility mindset and you're going to network, what are some of the things that we can do to practice that?
• 24:27
  Speaker 2: Well, first, the importance of networking, because I saw that survey that said 85,.
• 24:30
  Speaker 2: First, the importance of networking because I saw that survey that said 85% of jobs are filled through networking and 70% of those jobs are not posted online.
• 24:36
  Speaker 2: So it was that moment of like oh no, I was so uncomfortable at these things, I pushed them totally wrong.
• 24:44
  Speaker 2: So, for instance, I would go to a networking event and be like hey, lee, you going to this event, okay, you're going.
• 24:49
  Speaker 2: Okay, I'm going too, we'll just go together and then I will just talk to you the whole time and enjoy all the free snacks and drinking, and then when you leave, I'll leave right.
• 24:59
  Speaker 2: So I effectively did not network and you know, knowing this step, I was like whoa, I totally didn't do this right.
• 25:09
  Speaker 2: And so I coach networking in a way where, like as an introvert, I have to kind of set some guidelines to get myself that courage.
• 25:17
  Speaker 2: And so I'll be like okay, this is 90 minutes of my life, it's going to be okay.
• 25:22
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it will be okay, I don't have to go to the after party.
• 25:24
  Speaker 2: I don't have to go to the after after party, I just have to make my 90 minutes count.
• 25:28
  Speaker 2: So now I actually prefer just to go alone.
• 25:30
  Speaker 2: I'll just go for 90 minutes and even as the drive there I'm like oh, am I really doing this?
• 25:35
  Speaker 2: But I'm like game face on 90 minutes I'll see who's speaking right who, or who's going, if there's an attendance list or if I know people, and I'll just go straight toward them.
• 25:46
  Speaker 2: Like, if I see you in a corner and I'll be like I need to talk to Lee, I'll just go talk to you.
• 25:50
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I'll just go talk to you.
• 25:52
  Speaker 2: I don't have to wait.
• 25:54
  Speaker 2: I think a lot of times, like you wait for that permission, right, you wait for someone to come to you, or if it naturally or just if it casually happens, then that will happen.
• 26:01
  Speaker 2: Now I'll be like, okay, I see Dr Marcus back there there.
• 26:10
  Speaker 2: Okay, go talk to Dr Marcus.
• 26:11
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and I'll just make very good use of whatever time.
• 26:12
  Speaker 2: I'll be like okay, you know, and let me just go talk to all the people I need to talk, to talk to a couple new people, and even the new people if they're wearing badges.
• 26:17
  Speaker 2: I like to take a picture of their badge Because I realized when I was adding people in person, like on LinkedIn, that they would go into the black hole of my LinkedIn group, like my LinkedIn directory, and I had no idea who I met.
• 26:30
  Speaker 2: Oh, what was that person's name?
• 26:31
  Speaker 2: Again, what did they do?
• 26:33
  Speaker 2: And I just can't even find them, even though I've added them.
• 26:35
  Speaker 2: So I just like to take pictures.
• 26:37
  Speaker 2: So then the next morning, when everyone's fresh drinking coffee, they will have a nice little message from me being like hey, so-and-so, I met you last night at this event, it was really great talking to you about this, and so, instead of me trying to be memorable in that moment, I can make a more meaningful connection the next morning.
• 26:55
  Speaker 2: And so things like this have helped me go okay.
• 26:58
  Speaker 2: Now I'm kind of networking in a way that is more comfortable for me and then more effective for actually making longer connections afterwards.
• 27:06
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so really having a strategy for the event or the thing that you're going to, whether it's a conference or whether it's a networking event or whatever it may be, but having the strategy and then having some follow-ups, right.
• 27:18
  Speaker 1: So I think that's one thing I think people don't do is they go to the event.
• 27:22
  Speaker 1: They may get the courage and do those things and be bold and talk to different people and get the pictures, but then they don't do the follow-up, which I think, with the stat you shared of like you know where jobs are and how they're found and if they're posted or not, is a real, real, real stat, especially these days.
• 27:37
  Speaker 1: So, thinking about the strategy and who you want to meet and who may be there, what type of, you know, role you're seeking, or even just connection, right, so it's not always looking for a job, but it's just really creating more connections, which to me mean more community, my community, right, that I'm building, which you know takes time, so don't overstress yourself too with I have to talk to five people and I like just one, you know, like just don't make it your best friend, you know, like one new person, right, you know.
• 28:07
  Speaker 1: So really think about your goals for the event.
• 28:10
  Speaker 1: One of the things that you also talk about in the book is feeling overlooked or, you know, missing out because you're not as visible as you should be or could have been, or do you have a example in your life that you felt overlooked and that you flipped it by being more visible or change the outcome, or change the next time that that wasn't going to happen?
• 28:33
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 28:33
  Speaker 2: So I remember being earlier in my career and, you know, being creative, I came up with a concept, a campaign and my manager going, are you able to present this?
• 28:44
  Speaker 2: And just looking at me like I couldn't do it, and it kind of made me reflect on why I was giving off that you know perception and how I could actively change that.
• 28:57
  Speaker 2: And so very early on I think it was very rare for any person in my field I actually had a speaker page.
• 29:03
  Speaker 2: Very early I was like, just in case they don't think I can speak, I'm just just gonna make sure that I have the speaker page there and so that they can realize I can't string words together, and so just kind of putting that statement out there and so that I can kind of hit that bias a lot earlier and then going, okay, I want to present this page, I'll present that page also, just hand raising, be like, okay, uh, this non-profit came through called Lightbringer Foundation and they were just looking for someone to come speak to high school students and I was like, yeah, I'll do it.
• 29:35
  Speaker 2: And I think at that time people were like, oh, I'm too busy.
• 29:37
  Speaker 2: But I was like, no, absolutely, I'm happy to do that, like I would love to talk to students about this job, knowing that we need more diverse voices in here.
• 29:45
  Speaker 2: And I just kind of kept speaking, I just kept practicing, and so a lot of that was like okay, putting it out there and then really honing that craft.
• 29:53
  Speaker 2: Hey, maybe I did not speak well in a previous meeting, maybe that perception was really incorrect and so how can I eliminate that right, that stumbling block?
• 30:03
  Speaker 2: Knowing that where I want to get to, that's definitely an essential skill.
• 30:08
  Speaker 2: Being a creative director that pitches work, that's definitely an essential skill.
• 30:10
  Speaker 2: Being a creative director that pitches work, that's part of the job.
• 30:11
  Speaker 2: So if I'm giving off that perception or if I'm not doing a good job, knowing that I can never get there in my career, so not worrying about maybe a bad presentation one day maybe I flubbed a page or whatever that piece, maybe it wasn't good, but knowing that I need to build those skills to be good one day is really important.
• 30:28
  Speaker 2: To kind of keep your eyes a little further than what you're kind of in that moment.
• 30:31
  Speaker 1: Yeah, how did your beliefs fuel that?
• 30:34
  Speaker 1: Because I think that's that's the B of my framework is believe, and some of our beliefs can harm us and some of our beliefs can help us.
• 30:41
  Speaker 1: And really doing that inventory, right Of like, okay, I want to be visible, but I don't know if I should like at the very beginning.
• 30:48
  Speaker 1: It's like I want to be visible but I don't know if I should Like at the very beginning.
• 30:51
  Speaker 1: It's like I want to be visible, but who do I think I am, or maybe I should.
• 30:54
  Speaker 1: You know I need to blend versus be bold and so, like, what can we do to kind of strengthen our belief that we should be visible if we feel we're not supposed to be or it might be inappropriate or raise that it's time to blend?
• 31:07
  Speaker 1: I remember my dad saying to me every Sunday night, when cause we eat dinner with my parents every Sunday, he'd say keep your head down.
• 31:13
  Speaker 1: And I worked in really big organizations and academic organizations that you know an outspoken, very bold woman, you know, not always welcome, most of the time welcome, but on certain aspects in his, his guidance to me was basically blend, don't step out, don't take anybody off, you know.
• 31:34
  Speaker 1: So I just remember that keep your head down, and it was coming from a place of be safe, keep your job, keep your stability, those type of things.
• 31:40
  Speaker 1: But you know, I'm just like yeah, yeah, and so I think it's interesting to hear from you, like how can people maybe pump up their beliefs or understand maybe where their beliefs may be hindering them from being visible?
• 31:52
  Speaker 2: I mean, I still struggle with that.
• 31:54
  Speaker 2: I don't think I've conquered it.
• 31:55
  Speaker 2: And it is that practice every day, or every time a moment comes up, yeah, it's putting into practice.
• 32:01
  Speaker 2: I still go.
• 32:02
  Speaker 2: Okay, am I being too?
• 32:03
  Speaker 2: Am I being too vocal?
• 32:05
  Speaker 2: Am I being too present?
• 32:06
  Speaker 2: Am I being not present enough, like I'm always, like I feel like I'm always calibrating and I have little affirmation post-its, like there's one in this room, right behind you know this computer.
• 32:18
  Speaker 2: I have one downstairs.
• 32:19
  Speaker 2: I have one in front of my mirror.
• 32:19
  Speaker 2: My son is like why, mommy, do you have post-it notes everywhere?
• 32:22
  Speaker 2: And it just says I am deserving.
• 32:25
  Speaker 2: And so, whatever that means for you, what is your I am statement, just kind of having that moment like I am fearless, I am bold, I am successful.
• 32:33
  Speaker 2: What is that right?
• 32:34
  Speaker 2: What is that thing that you need to help, encourage you or to remind yourself and that you can see it.
• 32:39
  Speaker 2: And so for me, it's really about making sure every day, I'm always recalibrating, always going okay, best and worst.
• 32:47
  Speaker 2: And also, why am I doing it Right?
• 32:52
  Speaker 2: Right, why, behind it, yeah, am I just being bold so I can get more attention?
• 32:54
  Speaker 2: Am I being bold so that I can bring value to a community that doesn't have it Like.
• 32:58
  Speaker 2: What is my why and, honestly, that why is what really helps me to lean into this, to lean into that uncomfortableness.
• 33:07
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 33:07
  Speaker 1: So what do you say to someone who's like you've determined your why and you're doing your thing, and there's a naysayer, someone that judges, or I mean cause.
• 33:15
  Speaker 1: That happens to all of us, but I think to some of us more than others.
• 33:19
  Speaker 1: You know, from a minority perspective, the naysayers and the you shouldn't and the who do you think you are is are probably more pervasive.
• 33:27
  Speaker 1: And so, from your perspective, how do you counteract that when you know this is what you need to be doing, like what's in your backpack?
• 33:36
  Speaker 2: I honestly, you know, go.
• 33:37
  Speaker 2: Hey, that's probably a mirror onto their own life or what they're going through.
• 33:40
  Speaker 2: It's their own fear talking, not anything I'm doing, and so if I hear stuff like that, I just say thank you, I just nod and I just go okay, right, there's nothing that I'm going to say that's probably going to change that person's mind or how they're feeling, because that's how they're feeling and that's totally okay too.
• 33:57
  Speaker 2: But just to know that, that's not something that I'm doing or projecting, but probably something that they're going through at the moment.
• 34:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so you don't need to have it stick and you don't need to hold on to it.
• 34:07
  Speaker 1: I think that's just something for us to remember.
• 34:09
  Speaker 1: And the listeners to remember is like just because someone said something doesn't mean you have to do anything with it.
• 34:14
  Speaker 1: And you know, I was early on advice from one of my mentors of like just feedback.
• 34:18
  Speaker 1: It was one of those feedback moments from your staff and you know it's just like I like took something really to heart and she's like you have to realize that some of the feedback you're going to keep, some of the feedback you're going to actually use and maybe create some change or do something differently, and some of it you're just not going to do anything with at all.
• 34:34
  Speaker 1: You're just going to put it away or throw it away.
• 34:37
  Speaker 1: And so when you think about someone being a naysayer, you know, just let it be what it is.
• 34:41
  Speaker 1: That's their thought, that's their statement and it's you know, that Teflon, it bounced off me, right, so I don't need to keep it and it mirrors back to really more what they're thinking, or maybe what their limitations are, and maybe your confidence, right, is like irritating something in them that they wish they could have done.
• 34:59
  Speaker 1: I think that's another thing too.
• 35:01
  Speaker 1: So when you think about any particular times where your visibility led to something incredible, where your visibility led to something incredible, can you share like how and you know what you did to be visible and then what was the outcome of that?
• 35:16
  Speaker 1: So just to give someone an example of like a true success moment from being visible and like being bold and stepping out there.
• 35:23
  Speaker 2: Well, I think one of the things that really surprised me was one of those awards that you talked about was the AAF Hall of Achievement, and I remember getting a call from my friend and he called me Brandon Ruchon he's an amazing man, called me, was like Bernice, how old are you?
• 35:39
  Speaker 2: And I was like totally taking it back.
• 35:40
  Speaker 2: I think I just met him at a previous interview, like where I was interviewing to work for him, and he just met me one time and then he just texted me can I call you?
• 35:48
  Speaker 2: And that was the first thing he asked me and I was like why?
• 35:51
  Speaker 2: And he was like I really want to nominate you for this award.
• 35:55
  Speaker 2: And my very first instinct was like who me Like?
• 35:58
  Speaker 2: Who are you talking about?
• 35:59
  Speaker 2: Right, what award?
• 36:00
  Speaker 2: You know, like I, I'm not worthy.
• 36:03
  Speaker 2: And I think that was like my first thing.
• 36:05
  Speaker 2: And then, when he put my name in, the people of the awards actually contacted me and they're like, hey, you got a really good recommendation, but we've never heard of you.
• 36:14
  Speaker 2: And I was like, oh, ok, you've never heard of me.
• 36:18
  Speaker 2: Like, and you know, this is a big award where a lot of really incredible people in the industry have been awarded, and I had that first moment of like I don't deserve to be here.
• 36:26
  Speaker 2: Who am I to even be a part of this?
• 36:28
  Speaker 2: And I remember, ok, a lot of the other people that go for this award actually have an assistant or a team to actually put together a package Like that's like a video, it's a write-up, it's a bunch of recommendations.
• 36:40
  Speaker 2: It's a whole deal and they get someone professional to focus on that.
• 36:43
  Speaker 2: And I had to go oh gosh, I have no one, I have to put this together myself.
• 36:47
  Speaker 2: Should I put it together myself?
• 36:49
  Speaker 2: Like what am I even saying about myself?
• 36:51
  Speaker 2: And it was that moment of like you know what?
• 36:53
  Speaker 2: I'm just going to do it.
• 36:54
  Speaker 2: I, you know, probably not going to win, but go for it.
• 36:57
  Speaker 2: And having to write about yourself is incredibly uncomfortable.
• 37:00
  Speaker 2: And then they told me you know, typically I think people put in three recommendations, but we really think you should put in more because no one's heard of me.
• 37:09
  Speaker 2: Dr Marcus won previously.
• 37:11
  Speaker 2: So I had really stiff competition and so I was like I think I had like 15.
• 37:17
  Speaker 2: I was like, okay, I'm pretty good.
• 37:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I was like, okay, i'm-.
• 37:19
  Speaker 1: That's pretty good yeah.
• 37:20
  Speaker 2: I was like, okay, you know, I'm gonna try extra hard.
• 37:22
  Speaker 2: And so this idea of, oh my gosh, like coming from no one's heard of me, to actually being recognized, was so incredibly surreal.
• 37:30
  Speaker 2: So that's where I'm saying like worse that could happen, they throw away my application best thing that can happen, something like that, and so best thing that can happen, something like that.
• 37:43
  Speaker 2: And so I was so incredibly honored by the AEF American Advertising National Federation for this incredible award, and to be in, you know, be recognized in this industry is kind of remarkable from being feeling like invisible, I would say, even right up to the application being sent in yeah.
• 37:56
  Speaker 1: So again, like something unexpected happened.
• 37:58
  Speaker 1: It was like, whoa, I got nominated, that's cool, but should I have been?
• 38:02
  Speaker 1: So, like the moment of you know, should I be visible?
• 38:04
  Speaker 1: Came, and then you're like, okay, I'm going to push back on that Again.
• 38:08
  Speaker 1: I think sometimes the things play in between our ears that we really need to think about muting Right, and there's some things that we shouldn't mute.
• 38:16
  Speaker 1: But I do think, like, when those moments have, or like we're just going to push it, you know, to the side, cause I'm still going to keep moving forward.
• 38:23
  Speaker 1: Oh, I don't have a whole team to do this, I'm going to do it anyway.
• 38:29
  Speaker 1: And even though I know these, you know wonderful people have been nominated before.
• 38:31
  Speaker 1: I'm one of those people too, and the age and ethnicity and race, like those are things that shouldn't prohibit me from being, or gender should prohibit me from being, in the running.
• 38:42
  Speaker 1: So then, okay, well, you need more than three recommendations.
• 38:46
  Speaker 1: And you said, okay, how about I?
• 38:47
  Speaker 1: Five times that, I'll give you 15.
• 38:50
  Speaker 1: And maybe some of them were previous winners, even you know.
• 38:53
  Speaker 1: So I think, just for people hearing that, like it's just kind of pushing through that initial.
• 38:58
  Speaker 1: Oh, I don't know.
• 38:59
  Speaker 1: But then you're like you know it's right, you know it's, your gut is telling you right, there's.
• 39:04
  Speaker 1: There's these moments that just are very internal and innate of like yeah, I'm going to do it.
• 39:09
  Speaker 1: Yes, those are bold moments, bernice, for sure.
• 39:12
  Speaker 1: So that's a great bold moment for you to share.
• 39:15
  Speaker 1: One of the things that you've done which is just incredible is your community.
• 39:19
  Speaker 1: So tell me a little about your community and what you've built.
• 39:22
  Speaker 1: We talked a little bit about it previously, just with the website and the creation, and now over 6,000 people come together on a Zoom call.
• 39:31
  Speaker 1: So tell us a little bit about your community, what it's about and what's the mission of it.
• 39:36
  Speaker 2: Well, it's really about having developmental professional growth support, and so, while the name is Asians in Advertising, which also extends to marketing or communications, but I would say the big majority of the group are not even people in our industry.
• 39:50
  Speaker 2: It's just looking for people that are just looking for community, and so we actually get people from healthcare or banking or education or I'm like just thinking about different spaces.
• 40:01
  Speaker 1: All are welcome.
• 40:02
  Speaker 2: All are welcome, Allies in community, out community, it doesn't matter, everyone's welcome to come here.
• 40:07
  Speaker 2: And even with my book, I'm like, yes, there's like stats that reaffirm why Asians kind of need to understand this is something they're struggling with.
• 40:13
  Speaker 2: But it's really for anybody who's looking for visibility, and same with the session no-transcript.
• 40:41
  Speaker 2: So it's like, okay, we have these networking events to show that you have people to lean on each other.
• 40:46
  Speaker 2: And, lastly, it's really skill building.
• 40:48
  Speaker 2: We don't want to like, oh, go, network.
• 40:50
  Speaker 2: And then you're like, how?
• 40:51
  Speaker 2: So we really try to close those gaps in knowledge, and so we do that through our programming.
• 40:56
  Speaker 2: So whether on our panels we show speakers so you get to see them.
• 41:00
  Speaker 2: We have mentorship programs, so it's called NextGen Mentorship.
• 41:04
  Speaker 2: We actually partner with another organization called 3AF and last year we got about, I would say, 500 signups and we were able to do 200 pairings and I was shocked to see where people were coming in from.
• 41:16
  Speaker 2: I was like looking at, okay, tanzania lines up to what time zone?
• 41:20
  Speaker 1: What time zone is that?
• 41:22
  Speaker 2: Like we were trying our best.
• 41:23
  Speaker 2: It's a great team.
• 41:24
  Speaker 2: We were trying our best to see like how can we make these work?
• 41:27
  Speaker 2: And so I'm always really honored and humbled about how much the community has kind of come together or just kind of grassroots people find us.
• 41:34
  Speaker 2: And then, lastly, we have scholarships.
• 41:36
  Speaker 2: So we try to have as much career coaching as we can.
• 41:40
  Speaker 2: So we actually work with an AAPI coach and create small cohorts.
• 41:44
  Speaker 2: Last year we awarded 30 people with scholarships.
• 41:46
  Speaker 2: The first year we have 12.
• 41:48
  Speaker 2: And so we're just trying to find different ways to kind of meet people where they're at and having a place where they could have this conversation and also have the hands on skill based things based things Nice.
• 42:00
  Speaker 1: What do you think it takes to build a community Like?
• 42:01
  Speaker 1: What do you think are the ingredients that has led you to this success that you're having now?
• 42:03
  Speaker 1: And you have a 300 plus person conference coming up.
• 42:06
  Speaker 1: It just doesn't happen overnight, and so, like I would love to hear kind of what you think are the ingredients of creating that community.
• 42:13
  Speaker 2: Well, first, I have an incredible team.
• 42:14
  Speaker 2: We have an incredible volunteer team.
• 42:17
  Speaker 2: We have about 11 board members.
• 42:19
  Speaker 2: I think we're about 35 to 40 volunteers.
• 42:22
  Speaker 2: So, having that community within a community almost my volunteers are, so they believe in it and I think that aspect of it then bleeds back into the community right.
• 42:33
  Speaker 2: When you have these people that are working behind the scenes, that are huge advocates of the mission, who've seen it help themselves, I think it's just such a great way to then, you know, lead that back into the group.
• 42:44
  Speaker 2: And so I would say, first and foremost, I'm so grateful for that team.
• 42:47
  Speaker 2: And then, second, I would say, just being even consistent, knowing that, hey, every May we have a conference, every February we have a networking group, so people know where they can find us.
• 42:58
  Speaker 2: Knowing that this is just a passion project for me and my team, that we can't always be on I don't have like a hotline.
• 43:05
  Speaker 2: You can call us Like we're not like an always on brand, yeah, but just knowing that they can plan for us being there at certain moments, I think is really important.
• 43:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so in that space that you create is so special too, because I think they come to that knowing that they can be visible.
• 43:21
  Speaker 1: Would you say that?
• 43:22
  Speaker 2: You know, I don't know if it's top of mind I think they come to.
• 43:25
  Speaker 2: I think when they come to the group they just go.
• 43:27
  Speaker 2: Oh, wow, there's a place where I can be myself.
• 43:30
  Speaker 2: I would say that's kind of the hope I, I hope anyone that joins us can go.
• 43:34
  Speaker 2: Oh, there's a space for me, there's a space for people like me, that I can be authentic.
• 43:40
  Speaker 2: I would say that would be my hope for the kind of the introduction to the group.
• 43:44
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I love that.
• 43:45
  Speaker 1: And when you're authentic, I'm thinking internally you feel seen, you know that you can be yourself, you know that you can speak or you can be quiet and no one's going to judge you.
• 43:54
  Speaker 1: Either way, right, yeah, and I think that's a really important place for people to have to be healthy and to be growing and to be learning, and for you to create.
• 44:04
  Speaker 1: That is just an incredible thing.
• 44:05
  Speaker 1: So, congratulations on creating the community that you've created for the award, the award you've won and the ones that are on their way, and lots of things to come for you.
• 44:15
  Speaker 1: And what's next?
• 44:16
  Speaker 1: What's next in your world, kind of what's the next big thing for Bernice as you kind of move forward this year and into 2025?
• 44:24
  Speaker 2: I wish I had a great answer for this.
• 44:26
  Speaker 2: I don't know.
• 44:27
  Speaker 2: I have two young children, one's two and five.
• 44:30
  Speaker 2: You're skateboarding?
• 44:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm skateboarding, and, to be truly honest, it is just making more space for my kids.
• 44:37
  Speaker 2: Right, I want to keep putting value back into the world, but also be present, and so I don't think I'm chasing after anything at the moment, but other than being, you know, the most available mom as I could be with the things I have on my plate, yeah, well, I think that's a bold choice.
• 44:55
  Speaker 1: I think, you know, sometimes we think the next bold thing has to be another award or another book or another role, when you could just be very boldly choosing to be present for your family, which is an incredible choice and one that I think some of us struggle with honestly.
• 45:10
  Speaker 1: So seeing you doing that inspires me, inspires other people, inspires people to be bold and to take that time and to be present and to know that's just as viable as any bestseller or any big presentation or anything like that.
• 45:24
  Speaker 1: Your son thinking you're cool because you're trying to skateboard, I think is an award you should get.
• 45:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I know, I think on Sunday he was like mom, I saw you fall, yep, and he got back.
• 45:38
  Speaker 2: I got back up.
• 45:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I was like that's a great lesson for him.
• 45:42
  Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly.
• 45:42
  Speaker 1: Well, thank you so much for being on the bold lounge, for sharing your story, your book, all the information about Bernice, her community and her book, or in the episode notes.
• 45:50
  Speaker 1: Thank you.
• 45:51
  Speaker 2: Thanks, lee, thanks for having me.
• 45:55
  Speaker 1: Thank you for listening to the bold lounge podcast.
• 45:58
  Speaker 1: Through the continuum of bold stories vulnerability to taking a leap you will meet more extraordinary people making a positive impact for others through their unique and important story.
• 46:08
  Speaker 1: By highlighting these stories, we hope to inspire others and share the journey of those with a bold mindset.
• 46:13
  Speaker 1: We hope you've enjoyed this podcast and look forward to sharing the next bold journey with you.