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The Obscure Championship · Pittsburgh Sports Memories

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_00: Hello and welcome to Pittsburgh Sports Memories Podcast.
• 0:04
  SPEAKER_00: As usual, I'm your co-host, Steve Wirt, and I'm joined with by Hi everybody.
• 0:09
  SPEAKER_00: I'm Tim Hammond.
• 0:11
  SPEAKER_00: And today we're going to be covering uh the 1925 World Series, which um I think Tim was there.
• 0:18
  SPEAKER_00: You covered it, right?
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_00: You're right there sitting in Forbes field chairing off the fire.
• 0:39
  SPEAKER_01: Such great memories.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_01: Such great memories.
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_01: But but to be serious, Steve, I am I am looking forward to this episode just because you know I I know a ton about Pittsburgh sports.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_01: It's the reason I I love doing this podcast, but I could tell you nothing other than the team we played about the 1925 World Series.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm I'm very excited to learn.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, there's actually some controversial stuff that happened and there's some interesting things, and um there's some people that you'll recognize, maybe some people you won't.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_00: But um, so the 1925 World Series, like we said, it's often forgotten in Pittsburgh sports history.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_00: Um, it's not even covered really in the Ken Burns baseball documentary.
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_00: Um, if you notice, like they skip like right from like 1924 to like 1927 for obvious reasons.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_00: But uh, so I mean even in Pittsburgh, I don't I think some people have covered like I I found some Postgazette articles like back, and it's what are we?
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_00: So two more years it'll be a hundred years since we won that World Series.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_00: So maybe in 2025, some some more stuff will come out about it.
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_01: But um we're ahead of the curve.
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, there you go.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_00: We're two years ahead.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_00: Ha! So everybody can copy off us.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_00: Uh so um the background, uh, we'll start with the other team that was in the series that would be the Washington Senators.
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_00: In uh, so actually in 1924, they had played the New York Baseball Giants, which is gonna be so much fun talking about this because I get to see the New York baseball Giants.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, which are the team that is now the San Francisco Giants, and for everybody doesn't know.
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_00: And actually in 1924 was a great World Series.
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_00: They won in a 12-inning game and seven in the seventh game went 12 innings, and a guy named Muddy Rule, which is just whoever named him that is just awesome.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_00: He scored the winning run for Washington.
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_00: Um, in 2020, ESPN voted that the third greatest World Series game ever.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I can imagine why.
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it's that seems like an awesome game.
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_00: So in 1924, um, also the senators were the first team to start the tradition of visiting the White House after winning the World Series.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_00: And I think they actually did that like while the next while this World Series was going on.
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_00: And um, just for reference, uh Calvin Coolidge was the president back then, and I think he was rooting, which would make sense since they were kind of the hometown team, and you know, the Washington and the president and I guess all the teams since have visited the president except for did the baseball team still visit when Trump was there?
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know when everybody went.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't keep track, but but wait, you're saying that during the 1925 World Series, they visited the White House to celebrate the 1925.
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_00: I think they did if I have the timing correctly.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_01: Wow, that's kind of yeah, interesting.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_00: It I think it's just the way it kind of was like, hey, wouldn't it be cool?
• 3:35
  SPEAKER_00: And yeah, so did Twitter have a fit about that?
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, I think all the uh, you know, all across the telegraph line.
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_02: So it's like beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep.
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_00: You know, well, I guess they had radio, you know, all the radio guys, you know, Bob Hope and well, Bob Hope might not have been on the radio yet.
• 3:52
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_00: But um, so in 1925, the Pirates, this will be their first pennant in appearance in the World Series since 1909.
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_00: And we get to say aught because it's more fun and old-timey.
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_00: So um, so they hadn't been in the World Series, they had a little bit of a World Series drought.
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_00: Could you imagine that?
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_00: The Pirates having a World Series drought, Tim.
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_00: What a shocker!
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, 16 years between World Series appearances.
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_01: That must have been rough on the fan base.
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_01: I know.
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, who could who could ever go that long?
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_00: So um actually, though, in 1924, the season before, they had actually won 90 games.
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_00: But you know, nowadays, like imagine if the Pirates this year won 90 games, like the celebrating and dancing in the aisles would be amazing.
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_00: But back in 1924, that got you a third place finish in the National League.
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_00: So it was like, great season, boys, see you next year, yeah.
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_00: And I guess they had obviously finished behind the Giants, and I didn't look up somebody else.
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_00: So, which is kind of interesting.
• 5:01
  SPEAKER_00: Like we've talked about the before, like the Pirates and the Giants have been playing each other forever, and that would be the baseball giants.
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_00: So in 1925, they finished the season with 95 wins, so they win five, they win five more games, and that was enough to win the uh National League pennant by eight and a half games over those famed New York baseball Giants.
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_00: So I guess the New York baseball giants were pretty good around that time.
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_00: They you know always in the mix.
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so basically set the stage.
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_00: The Senators are looking to go back to back with World Series wins.
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_00: Um, at that time, it had been four done four times.
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_00: Um, the last was once again those Giants.
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_00: Boy, those Giants were good back then, 1921, 1922.
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_00: And the first time was the Cubs in 1907 and 1908.
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm sure the Cubs after 1908 are just gonna be right back in the World Series, aren't they, Tim?
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_00: Winning another World Series.
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_00: Ha ha.
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_00: I like making fun of Cubs fans.
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know why.
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_01: No, no uh opposition there.
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_00: Uh so the date of this series, it happened from October 7th to October 15th, 1925.
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_00: So um, you know, you gotta have a scorecard to know the players.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_00: So we'll kind of go through the important players and people that were going on since I doubt anybody really knows who these people are.
• 6:19
  SPEAKER_00: And we've maybe heard about these on previous podcasts if you listen to some of our other ones.
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_00: So um, we'll start with the uh old buccos there.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_00: Um, Barney Dreyfus, he was a successful owner of the Pirates.
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_00: He had owned the Pirates for a long time.
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_00: I think he actually was one of the people who brought them over from Louisville.
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_00: Um, he did not like cheap home runs, and he was the guy who actually built Forbes Field and made it so huge because he didn't like cheap home runs.
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_00: Um, under his ownership, the Pirates would win six NL pennants and two World Series.
• 6:53
  SPEAKER_00: He also helped get Kennesaw Mountain Landis as the commissioner of baseball, and that's kind of important significantly because in 1919, if you ever watched the movie Eight Man Out with who's in it, John Cusack, and I can't figure who else.
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_00: A bunch of people were in it.
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_00: But that's the one Fraser, yeah.
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, Jimmy Jim Mahoney, yeah.
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_00: And what another guy too has like been in a like the pitcher, the one pitcher, he's been in a ton of stuff.
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_00: Um, that's the Black Sox scandal.
• 7:23
  SPEAKER_00: They are paid to throw the World Series by a bunch of gamblers, and whether Shoeless Joe was involved or not, but Shoeless Joe would eventually see his redemption in 1989 Field of Dreams movie.
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, right, sure.
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_00: That's true, or maybe not.
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so you know, that kind of they had to clean up baseball after 1919.
• 7:44
  SPEAKER_00: You figure that's only six years removed from that, right?
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and so it was still kind of, you know, they had to make sure that people didn't think the games were fixed because, you know, this isn't wrestling and people would like you know the games to be legitimate.
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_00: Funny thing about that.
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so the actual manager of the team was a guy named Bill McKechnie.
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_00: And if you're an older time, you know, you might remember, you might recognize his name.
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_00: Um, he was he was the original deacon on the Pirates.
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_00: And this is an interesting thing with this team.
• 8:17
  SPEAKER_00: A lot of like upstanding people.
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know if it's just you know in the papers that was their image or if they really were, but maybe they really were.
• 8:25
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_00: Um, he was an unusual manager, he was very religious, he did not smoke, did not drink, did not use profanity.
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_00: When he had a problem with a player who was likely to go out carousing, because you know what McKenny would McKechney would do, Tim?
• 8:41
  SPEAKER_00: He would he would go and actually become his roommate.
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_00: So I guess that was like, you know, if you were out like spending the late nights drinking or whatever and chasing the ladies, you weren't doing that.
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_00: The manager was gonna be now sleeping next to you, and that would be tougher for you to do, I guess.
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_01: Interesting approach.
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_01: I guess I guess that must have worked because I can I can see you not being able to sneak out anymore if the manager's your roommate.
• 9:11
  SPEAKER_00: Uh according to uh baseball reference, this is after his time with the pirates, McKechney had a poor sense of direction.
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_00: And um he he went to he he would meant the this is he would later manage the Reds.
• 9:23
  SPEAKER_00: And he he tried came, he was supposed to play the Pirates at Forbes Field, and he he like flew a plane, which what he thought was for Pittsburgh, and said, Um, hey, can you get me to uh the Shenley Hotel?
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_00: And the taxi driver's like, nope, never heard of it.
• 9:36
  SPEAKER_00: And he then he said, You know, how about some nearby streets?
• 9:39
  SPEAKER_00: He's like, No, he's like, I've never heard of them either.
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_00: And then he the technique's like, Well, how long have you been driving a cab here?
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_00: And the guy's like, 25 years.
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_00: He said, Well, I can't know.
• 9:51
  SPEAKER_00: And I mean, then he's like, Wait a minute, you're in the wrong hot wrong town.
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_00: The cab driver.
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_00: He's like, Where do you think you are?
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_00: And he's like, Uh, I'm in Pittsburgh, and the cab driver's like, nope, this is Detroit.
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_00: Literally got on the wrong plane.
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, so uh, yeah, he um so you know, he had played actually for the Pirates and he'd hit 251, and he had played some in the infield.
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_00: So um another guy that we've talked about before um is Fred Clark.
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_00: And um, he was one of the players that uh Dreyfus had brought in from the Louisville Colonels with uh Honus Wagner and some of the other players that made that dynasty team of the early aughts.
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_00: Um there it he still is the Pirates' most successful manager to this day.
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_00: Um, he had actually managed from 1900 to 1915.
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_00: And uh what had happened was he had uh brought some bought some property in Kansas, and um lucky for him, they found oil on it.
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_00: So uh this guy just ran into a ton of money.
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_00: So when you got more money and that you know what to do with, you asked Barney Drivis if you can become a part like a minority owner.
• 11:05
  SPEAKER_00: So that's what he did.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_00: And so since he was now an owner, he was allowed to sit in the dugout with poor Bill McKechnie, which is really not fun.
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_00: So imagine, like the only way I could relate this to the only thing I can think of, imagine if like Bill Cower was like, hey, hey, uh Mr.
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_00: Art Rudy, can I have a part ownership in the team like so many other people?
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_00: Or like David Tepper was like when he was a part owner, can I be part owner?
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_00: Then like David Tepper's like, hey, I'm gonna go down and hang on the sideline and literally question every decision Mike Tomlin makes.
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_00: How do you think that's gonna work out?
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that would be awkward to say the least.
• 11:45
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so it was just um a little weird situation, and uh that's just you know, that's kind of how it went that season.
• 11:53
  SPEAKER_00: So and after the and our aftermath, there's a little bit of aftermath that comes from all of this.
• 11:59
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so now some of the players, there there's uh I think I'm gonna focus on three or four players that were really all these guys are Hall of Famers, and which is kind of weird that we haven't heard of them.
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_00: So this guy, the first guy is called Max Gary, and his birth name, which is really awesome, is I think you know, if if either of us have any more children, we should name them this, Tim.
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_00: Um, especially if it's a boy, Maximilian George Carnarius.
• 12:26
  SPEAKER_00: So uh that's a heck of a mouthful there.
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_00: So they just went with Max.
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_00: I I can't see why.
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_00: Um, he had actually replaced Fred Clark and left field in 1912.
• 12:39
  SPEAKER_00: So um, yeah, so the guy who you replaced is now your manager.
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm sure that's all gonna work out well for everyone involved, right?
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_00: Um, he his nickname was Scoop for his ability to catch fly balls in front of him.
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_00: Um, he had a mark of 738 stolen bases, and it remained a national league record until Lou Brock surprised surpassed it in 1974.
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_00: Um, in 1924, Carrie altered his batting stance based on Ty Cobbs.
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_00: I've heard that before.
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_00: Like people kind of changed the way, so that actually helped his his uh batting average.
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_00: And he was another one, he was uh involved in religious activities.
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_00: He intended a theologically theological seminary in the winter.
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_00: So uh that was interesting.
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_00: So they have a couple of uh reverends and deacons on the team.
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_00: Um interesting.
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_01: Well, the uh the the crowd today that thinks yeah, well, Tomlin doesn't have any discipline on the steelers, would have loved this team.
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I mean, I guess that that's kind of how that generation was, too.
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_00: You figure this is and I forgot to mention this is the height of prohibition.
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_00: So, like, you know, there's a lot of like that generation I think you know was very like upstanding.
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_00: They didn't want to smoke, didn't want to drink.
• 14:01
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe it's an overreaction, you know, to some of the other things that were going on, like people you know, having all those addictive issues, sometimes people overreact the other way.
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, it's probably either it's probably one of two things, probably either that camp or the camp of no one like we just don't tell anybody what we're doing kind of thing.
• 14:23
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I mean that this is the papers too.
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_00: So like if you want an interview with you know Max or Maximilian here, you're not gonna report on him right running around with ladies and drinking.
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_01: Right, not saying he was.
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it again, these guys are probably sincere in what they believe, just saying that for every one of those guys, there was probably a guy or two that was you know doing stuff that no one would have ever found out about like beating people up in the stands.
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_00: Oh no, that was Ty Call.
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_00: And nobody, nobody even yeah, nobody hid that one.
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_00: No, so um, another guy.
• 14:59
  SPEAKER_00: Um, this guy was named Kiki Kyler or Kyler, I think, and his real name was Hazen, Hazen Shirley Kyler.
• 15:07
  SPEAKER_00: There's another name for you.
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_00: Um, Kyler led the National League and stolen bases four times, so they got some speed on this team.
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I don't know how good catchers were back then, but you know, apparently, you know, he he runs scored two times, and he had a batting average over 350 on four occasions.
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_00: So um his 26 triples in 1925 were the second most triples in any season after 1900.
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_00: Um, plus two, you figure like Forbes field is a really big field, so if you hit something that might have been a home run in another field and you have any kind of speed, you're probably gonna get a triple, you know.
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_00: Uh pie trainer.
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_00: He a fun fact it was the original choice of Mr.
• 15:55
  SPEAKER_00: Burns to play third base on the Springfield power plant baseball team.
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_00: If you remember that episode, Homer at the Bat.
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_00: That was the infamous line by Mr.
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_00: Smithers.
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_00: Your left fielder's been dead for 70 years.
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_00: Um, he was replaced by Wade Boggs when they actually had to field a team of current players in 1989 or wherever that was.
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_00: So poor pie trainer.
• 16:16
  SPEAKER_00: He didn't get to play on Mr.
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_00: Burns' uh power plant softball team there, but he did get to play in the 1925 World Series.
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_00: So in 1925, Trainer posted a 320 average with six home runs, 106 runs batted in and led the league in fielding percentage.
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know how they even figured that out.
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_00: I guess they kept track to everything even back then.
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_00: Um so you know he he's ranked number 70 on the sporting news list of 100 greatest baseball players in 1999.
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_00: He's been a finalist for the baseball century team.
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_00: Um, yeah, he has a key key key play in later.
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_00: He hit a home run in the series that was pretty important too.
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_00: So um, I guess we'll talk about the other team, the other guys, the Washington Centers.
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_00: Um, the most probably guy you probably know about him is Walter Johnson.
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_00: He was uh he actually in 1917, a munitions laboratory, like they had a chronograph and they could like they didn't have radar guns back then because it radar wasn't developed, so they couldn't like clock how fast a pitch was going.
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_00: But they had like like these things called chronographs, and if you could pass it through two points, you could kind of do the math and figure out how some fast something was going.
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_00: That's how they figured out how fast a cannonball or a bullet was going.
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_00: So they they let Walter Johnson go up there and throw a baseball through it, and they clocked it at 134 feet per second.
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_00: And if you're saying, What the heck does that mean?
• 17:44
  SPEAKER_00: It's equivalent to 91 miles per hour.
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_00: So Walter Johnson, and this is like you know, Walter Johnson could definitely pitch in today's major league baseball at 91 miles per hour, throwing that kind of that's good enough to get you in the majors even today.
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_00: So almost a hundred years later, he was good.
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_00: Um it was unmatched at that era.
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_00: Um, he had a he had a sidearm motion and uh, you know, Johnson, he it was uh difficult for right-handed batters to pick up.
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and he he threw an occasional curveball, which oh my goodness.
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_00: If you're gonna throw 91 miles per hour and then switch speeds to some sort of curveball, it's probably gonna be hard to hit.
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_00: So him and Honus Wagner were known as the five immortals because they were the first players chosen for the baseball hall of fame.
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's I can't remember.
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_00: It's him.
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_00: I want to say is Babe Babe Ruth in Ty Cobb in Cy Young, maybe Jimmy Fox, maybe Christy Matthewson.
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, actually Christy Mathewson comes in like I have a note about Christy Matthewson.
• 18:55
  SPEAKER_00: He actually um died on the first game of the World Series this year due to um he was in World War One and he had been exposed to um some of yeah, the nerve gas, you know, the phosphine, the mustard gas, as they called it.
• 19:11
  SPEAKER_00: And he didn't die, but it messed up his lungs so bad he couldn't play baseball no more.
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_00: And then he actually did die on uh in September of this or October, I guess, of this year.
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_00: So um sad note about that.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_00: Um Walter Johnson at the time in 1925 was 37 years old, but he had won his first World Series the year before.
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and going into the game seven, you were gonna notice that he had already game won two games for the senators, so he's kind of like their big guy.
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_00: Um 12 pitchers have won three games in the World Series.
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_00: Um, the last guy to do it was a guy named Mickey Lowlich in 1968 for the Tigers of Detroit.
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_00: So it's not common to win three games in a World Series, so it's it's it's not easy.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_00: So he's definitely a Hall of Famer great.
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_00: There was a guy named Roger Peckenpaw.
• 20:05
  SPEAKER_00: He was um appointed um manager, uh, but Bucky Harris was the manager, but this guy was his assistant manager.
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_00: Um, he was a key contributor in the 1924 World Series.
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_00: Um, he was actually most valuable player in 1925.
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_00: I think he was their shortstop.
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_00: And uh Peckin Paw comes into play.
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_00: He makes some really bad errors in this series.
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_00: He makes a lot, he has a really bad series in the field.
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_00: Um, as for the owner of the Washington Senators, it was a guy named Clark Griffith.
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_00: Um, he was a successful player, turned owner.
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_00: He was known to run the team on a cheap budget.
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_00: Imagine that.
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_00: A baseball owner running the team on a cheap budget, Tim.
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_00: Can you imagine shameful?
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_01: It's a good thing.
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_01: It's a good thing they've weeded that kind of stuff out of the game.
• 20:53
  SPEAKER_00: I am shocked and surprised.
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_00: So um he signed a lot of players from independent leagues.
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_00: They didn't even have a farm system.
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_00: The senators didn't even have a farm system.
• 21:05
  SPEAKER_00: So I guess he would just like, you know, back then maybe it wasn't as bad because there was kind of people all over the place.
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_00: It wasn't as defined the minor leagues, you know.
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_00: So um another fun guy who plays a key is Stan Kovalesky.
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_00: He was a pitcher, he had pitched with uh Philadelphia Athletics and the Cleveland Indians, and uh he had came to the um Senators that year, and uh the best thing about Stan Kovaleski was he was a spitball pitcher, Tim.
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_00: And you might say, Hey Steve, isn't spitballs illegal in 1925?
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_00: And I would say, Yes, you are correct, but he was grandfathered in, so he was still allowed to throw spitballs.
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, you're kidding.
• 21:47
  SPEAKER_01: That was how they did it.
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_01: Didn't because didn't didn't they outlaw it when the one guy for Cleveland got killed?
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_00: Isn't that what I think it is uh at the beginning of nineteen twenty the spitball was banned.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: But he was grandfathered in.
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_01: So um that's what happened.
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_01: There was a guy for for Cleveland who got hit in the head.
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_00: And they didn't wear helmets back then.
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_00: And I don't know if they even they didn't have plastic, so I don't even know what like they would have had to worn like a World War One, like even in World War One, they didn't wear helmets, like at the beginning of the war.
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_00: Like so, I don't know what you would have worn, like a like one of those weird-looking helmets the British and the Americans wore were like, but but but supposedly, yeah, they so they didn't have helmets, and supposedly he um he couldn't get out of the way of the right.
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_01: Like it like usually if something like that, if it flies at your head, you're gonna flinch or you're gonna like put your arm up or something, but he never even saw it because of the way it kind of weaved in the air because the Yankees bit your head, you know, put a bunch of gunk on it.
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_01: So that was that was one of the public kind of outcries like we need to outlaw this, but I guess if you did it before 1920, you were still allowed to do it.
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_01: That's really goofy.
• 23:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, maybe they should have.
• 23:03
  SPEAKER_00: I was thinking of this while doing this.
• 23:05
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe they should have done that with the steroids, just like, okay, no one past like X 2004 is allowed to use steroids anymore or whatever.
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_00: But you know, Barry Bonds and all you, you're still allowed to use steroids.
• 23:17
  SPEAKER_01: Or like James Harrison's still allowed to hit the quarterback in the head because he was doing it before they made the role.
• 23:23
  SPEAKER_02: You know, like yeah, yeah.
• 23:26
  SPEAKER_00: He's still allowed to rough the quarterback.
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 23:29
  SPEAKER_00: Oh my gosh.
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_00: Can you imagine?
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_00: But be that as it may, um, Kovaleski uh had won a lot of games.
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_00: Um he uh he actually like you know played a key role in the series.
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_00: He had another, he was another guy who didn't have a great series.
• 23:47
  SPEAKER_00: So uh a guy named Goose Goslin.
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_00: Uh he was their left fielder.
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_00: He was one of the top run producers in the American League with 129 RBIs.
• 23:59
  SPEAKER_00: Um he had a he had a really good uh he had a good 24 World Series.
• 24:05
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, six hits.
• 24:07
  SPEAKER_00: Um in the 25 series, he batted 334 with 72.
• 24:12
  SPEAKER_00: Or no, that was 1925, he batted 334 with 72 extra base hits and 113 RBIs.
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_00: He's another guy who had a lot of triples, 20 triples.
• 24:20
  SPEAKER_00: So I guess we're still like not quite in, we're still we're coming out of the deadball era into like the home run era.
• 24:27
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, that was a decade of Babe Ruth and everything.
• 24:31
  SPEAKER_01: I also love all the nicknames, Goose Goslin and Pie Trainer.
• 24:35
  SPEAKER_01: Did anybody go by their real name?
• 24:36
  SPEAKER_01: I guess Walter Johnson.
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_00: Well, they he was the big train, wasn't he?
• 24:41
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, but I mean, but he actually had like a first name.
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_01: Everybody else has like a nickname as their first name.
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_01: It's like Harold, Harold Arthur, you know, uh pie trainer.
• 24:51
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know what his real name was, but uh now the real manager of the senators was a guy named Bucky Harris, and he played second base, so it was like a player manager, they didn't actually have a manager.
• 25:04
  SPEAKER_00: Isn't that that's like wild?
• 25:06
  SPEAKER_00: It's like if Neil Walker was just like playing second base still and managing the pirates, or I don't know who's on the pirates now, it would be I don't know.
• 25:16
  SPEAKER_00: That old guy, Rich Hill, you know, he he could be the manager and a pitcher, I guess.
• 25:21
  SPEAKER_00: He's old enough.
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_01: But uh another great nickname, Bucky Harris.
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 25:27
  SPEAKER_00: Um he had uh he he was actually at the age of 27, he was the youngest manager in the majors.
• 25:34
  SPEAKER_00: So um he had led his uh the the Washington to the series the year before.
• 25:40
  SPEAKER_00: He was nicknamed the boy wonder.
• 25:42
  SPEAKER_00: There you go.
• 25:42
  SPEAKER_00: Like I think the papers just you know, you gotta have a catchy headline.
• 25:45
  SPEAKER_00: There was so much comp, you know, you gotta let's think of a nickname.
• 25:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, he's the boy wonder.
• 25:51
  SPEAKER_00: So um let's see.
• 25:55
  SPEAKER_00: Uh he uh he played uh let's see, let me see what he said.
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_00: It was 1925.
• 26:02
  SPEAKER_00: 1920.
• 26:03
  SPEAKER_00: He he had uh career high 227 hits, 87 RBIs, and 350 batting average.
• 26:09
  SPEAKER_00: Boy, people really hit for average back then.
• 26:11
  SPEAKER_00: Nobody hits for average anymore.
• 26:12
  SPEAKER_00: It's either strikeout or home run.
• 26:15
  SPEAKER_00: But once again, I think the fields were bigger and you know, I don't know.
• 26:19
  SPEAKER_00: People just it was just a different game back then.
• 26:22
  SPEAKER_00: A lot more hit and run, not a lot of like and I mean walks too, but so um something else that came into play is the weather.
• 26:31
  SPEAKER_00: Like, could you imagine?
• 26:33
  SPEAKER_00: The weather was not great in October in Pittsburgh, Tim.
• 26:36
  SPEAKER_00: Imagine that.
• 26:38
  SPEAKER_00: So that's gonna play kind of like you know, a a key key thing in our thing.
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_00: So so the series is set.
• 26:48
  SPEAKER_00: We got the Pirates and the Senators, and I don't know, I guess it's maybe the alternating thing.
• 26:53
  SPEAKER_00: The Pirates actually have the home field advantage game seven will be played in Pittsburgh, so go figure, right?
• 27:02
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so game one, it's a uh the game this game actually is the last time, the last road series game that the Washington Sle Senators have won.
• 27:15
  SPEAKER_00: So um, if you include them in the team they've become, which we'll cover later.
• 27:21
  SPEAKER_00: Um, they got on the board, a guy named Joe Harris hit a home run off of one of the Pyre pitchers, Lee Meadows.
• 27:27
  SPEAKER_00: You know, they made a 3-0.
• 27:29
  SPEAKER_00: Pie trainer had a leadoff home run in the ninth.
• 27:32
  SPEAKER_00: Um, Walter Johnson was the pitcher, and you know, he pitched a one-run game with five hits, it looks like so um, you know, pretty good.
• 27:42
  SPEAKER_00: Uh the winner, obviously, Walter Johnson.
• 27:45
  SPEAKER_00: Anytime Walter Johnson's on the mound, like Washington's gonna have a distinct advantage I I I think in this series.
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_00: And the Pirates kind of have some pitchers, but they don't have like Walter Johnson.
• 27:58
  SPEAKER_00: It's almost like a not a replay of 1960, but it's like like where the Yankees had like a you know, Whitey Ford and a really good pitcher, and I think Washington is the same kind of situation.
• 28:10
  SPEAKER_00: They have a really good pitcher, so you're gonna have to try and get to the other pitchers, and that's a big win for Washington because that kind of eliminates home field advantage at that moment for the Pirates since they lost a game at home.
• 28:23
  SPEAKER_00: And I think we're still in the 2-3-2 format.
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_00: So in game two, the uh Pirates do win.
• 28:35
  SPEAKER_00: Uh Stan Kovalesky did not win his spitball, was hittable that day, I guess.
• 28:42
  SPEAKER_00: They could they could they they dried the ball off a little bit.
• 28:46
  SPEAKER_00: Um uh Kyler hit a two-month home run in the eighth.
• 28:50
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and that was set up by a I talked about Roger Pecken Paul as a shortstop for Washington.
• 28:55
  SPEAKER_00: He like made an error, and this is like another critical error.
• 28:58
  SPEAKER_00: Like Washington could have taken a stranglehold on the series, two games to none going back to Washington.
• 29:04
  SPEAKER_00: But you know, I guess he would throw one, throw him into the stands occasionally.
• 29:08
  SPEAKER_00: So they won three to two.
• 29:10
  SPEAKER_00: Uh the Senators loaded the bases, but um they got the Pirates got out of it.
• 29:17
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, they're tied at one game apiece, and we're going into game three, which is now the series is now moving to Washington, D.C.
• 29:28
  SPEAKER_00: And this game is the the pitcher, the Pirates actually you know scored first, and Sam Rice hit a leadoff home run.
• 29:37
  SPEAKER_00: Joe Judge did not die double.
• 29:40
  SPEAKER_00: Um, the Pirates are gained the lead in the fourth, the Kiki Kyler hit a leadoff single, Joe Harris put them up.
• 29:46
  SPEAKER_00: Um, next thing they say the centers loaded the bases on a walk and two signals, and then this judge sacrifice fly tied the game, and then an RBI single by Joe Harris put them up four to three.
• 29:58
  SPEAKER_00: A key play in the eighth was uh Earl Smith's line drive in the center field was caught by Sam Rice, who fell into the temporary stands.
• 30:05
  SPEAKER_00: And this is like a great story, I think.
• 30:09
  SPEAKER_00: This is the one where it kept the Pirates from scoring, I think.
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_00: And um, this is an infamous moment here, Tim.
• 30:16
  SPEAKER_00: This is one of the controversial moments of this series.
• 30:19
  SPEAKER_00: So this would be Sam Rice.
• 30:21
  SPEAKER_00: This is like his most famous of his career, and it was game three of this series, and the senators were leading the pirates four to three in the middle of the eighth, and they had guys on, and he somebody hit a ball into the stands, and Rice ran the ball down and appeared to catch it at the fence.
• 30:39
  SPEAKER_00: But when he did that, he went over the fence and into the stands.
• 30:45
  SPEAKER_00: When he came out of the stands, the ball was in his glove.
• 30:49
  SPEAKER_00: Um, now some people thought that maybe he had dropped the ball in the stands, and the umpire's explanation was that as soon as the catch was made, the play was over.
• 30:58
  SPEAKER_00: It did not matter where he you know ended up in the stands.
• 31:04
  SPEAKER_00: So everybody's thinking he dropped the ball in the stands, or like, you know, you have to catch the ball in the field to play.
• 31:11
  SPEAKER_00: You can't like jump in the stands or on something and catch the ball.
• 31:14
  SPEAKER_00: That's a rule, too.
• 31:16
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so this is just like pirates fans sent signed and notarized documents claiming that they saw a fan pick up the ball and put it in Rice's glove.
• 31:28
  SPEAKER_00: Now, Rice on his part said that he would not tell.
• 31:32
  SPEAKER_00: He kind of pulls a Frenchie food claw.
• 31:34
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not telling, I'm not telling anybody, I'm taking this to my grave.
• 31:38
  SPEAKER_00: Answering only the umpire said I caught it.
• 31:42
  SPEAKER_00: The infamous, if the judge says it, uh you know, I'm going with it.
• 31:47
  SPEAKER_00: Magazines literally offered to pay him for the story, but Rice turned him down saying, I don't need the money.
• 31:53
  SPEAKER_00: The mystery is more fun.
• 31:54
  SPEAKER_00: So he's definitely on the Frenchie fruit claw scale of that.
• 31:57
  SPEAKER_00: I touch it to tape, you know.
• 31:59
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's smart.
• 32:00
  SPEAKER_01: He gets to he gets to like tell that story forever if he just sticks to that.
• 32:05
  SPEAKER_01: That's uh very smart play on his part.
• 32:08
  SPEAKER_00: Well, it gets better, Tim.
• 32:09
  SPEAKER_00: We're not quite done with this guy yet.
• 32:11
  SPEAKER_00: So he would not even tell his wife or his daughter.
• 32:14
  SPEAKER_00: This guy won't even tell family members whether he caught it or not.
• 32:19
  SPEAKER_00: So he was selected to the hall of fame.
• 32:22
  SPEAKER_00: He that he wrote a letter when he was selected to the hall of fame to be opened upon his death.
• 32:29
  SPEAKER_00: So he writes a letter about this catch and seals it and says, When I die, the Hall of Fame can open this.
• 32:36
  SPEAKER_00: However, in an interview, his wife Mary said he did catch it.
• 32:39
  SPEAKER_00: You don't have to worry about that anymore.
• 32:42
  SPEAKER_00: So his wife thinks he's catch it, his family members, right?
• 32:45
  SPEAKER_00: So, what does the letter say, Tim?
• 32:47
  SPEAKER_00: Here's what the letter said.
• 32:50
  SPEAKER_00: Its conclusion stated, At no time did I lose possession of the ball.
• 32:57
  SPEAKER_00: So he's saying he caught it, I guess.
• 33:02
  SPEAKER_01: Wow, that's that's pretty epic that he he kept that all his life, and then he trolled everybody from the grave.
• 33:10
  SPEAKER_01: That's uh I don't know what to say about that.
• 33:13
  SPEAKER_01: That's really impressive.
• 33:14
  SPEAKER_01: Like, talk about just making uh a Supreme Court case out of a fly ball.
• 33:19
  SPEAKER_01: That's that's pretty good.
• 33:20
  SPEAKER_00: Well, it was a big catch, and people like maybe it was put in his glove, maybe it wasn't.
• 33:24
  SPEAKER_00: Um so there's some game.
• 33:27
  SPEAKER_00: Well, we have I have him YouTube footage of uh this game.
• 33:31
  SPEAKER_00: Um, it's all like obviously silent and there's no commentary or sound at all.
• 33:37
  SPEAKER_00: Um, there's some great shots of President Coolidge throwing out a first pitch.
• 33:41
  SPEAKER_00: And the reason is this is because the um the first talkie, the first picture was sound was the jazz singer, which would not come until 1927.
• 33:49
  SPEAKER_00: And uh that was starring a gentleman named Al Jolson.
• 33:52
  SPEAKER_00: And I do believe I have it.
• 33:54
  SPEAKER_00: Al Jolson before the series, the papers had some cool coats.
• 33:57
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, here we go.
• 33:58
  SPEAKER_00: Pittsburgh will win every game in Pittsburgh because it'll be so black with smoke there that Washington players won't be able to even see the ball, giving the home team a decided advantage.
• 34:11
  SPEAKER_00: So Pittsburgh living up to its uh smoky city, steel city, you know.
• 34:18
  SPEAKER_01: Well, you think the Pirates would have been undefeated every year at Forbes Field if that were actually true.
• 34:25
  SPEAKER_01: That's that's some Pittsburgh stereotyping there, Al Jolson.
• 34:29
  SPEAKER_00: Coming from the guy that performed almost exclusively in Blackface.
• 34:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 34:35
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 34:38
  SPEAKER_00: So now the um they're up, what, two games to one?
• 34:43
  SPEAKER_00: And for game four, they trot back out Walter Johnson.
• 34:47
  SPEAKER_00: So um, yeah, we can can you guess which way this one's gonna go, Tim?
• 34:53
  SPEAKER_00: Um, yes, the Pirates cannot hit Walter Johnson.
• 34:56
  SPEAKER_00: It's his only postseason shutout, a three-run home buy by Goose Goslin, fall by so home run by Joe Harris.
• 35:03
  SPEAKER_00: Put the centers up three to one.
• 35:06
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, so the the Pirates are actually down three to one in this series.
• 35:09
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 35:10
  SPEAKER_00: Washington is now up three to one, and as of 1925, no team has ever come back from being down three games to one in the World Series.
• 35:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, there you go.
• 35:23
  SPEAKER_01: Lots of lots of lots of home runs in this series, too.
• 35:26
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, we were talking about Well, this was in Washington, so I don't know how the dimensions of Griffith medium.
• 35:32
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, maybe it was a little different.
• 35:33
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, maybe it was shorter, so but yeah.
• 35:39
  SPEAKER_00: So uh, I mean, no, no heroic catches that were sealed in envelope needed.
• 35:44
  SPEAKER_00: You just gotta put Walter Johnson out there in his 90 ball for a fastball, and that kind of takes care of business.
• 35:50
  SPEAKER_00: And I think Walter Johnson might have completed I that I don't know if he completed the whole game.
• 35:57
  SPEAKER_00: I he they don't have any other pitchers listed, so I'm assuming he pitched nine innings and dropped probably another nine innings to game.
• 36:06
  SPEAKER_00: So he's up to 18 innings in the series, Tim, is my point.
• 36:10
  SPEAKER_00: He's pitched a lot.
• 36:14
  SPEAKER_00: So the old pivotal pivotal game five.
• 36:19
  SPEAKER_00: Three games to one, back against the wall.
• 36:21
  SPEAKER_00: The sentimental favors are definitely the Washington Senators.
• 36:25
  SPEAKER_00: What are those plucky old Pirates gonna do?
• 36:29
  SPEAKER_00: The Pirates, they actually load the bases in the first, but they failed to score.
• 36:33
  SPEAKER_00: Um Sam Rice hit a double.
• 36:35
  SPEAKER_00: The guy for the uh the guy won't tell you what what happened in game three.
• 36:39
  SPEAKER_00: He hit a double.
• 36:40
  SPEAKER_00: You know, but they get out of it.
• 36:42
  SPEAKER_00: Uh no, they score a couple runs.
• 36:44
  SPEAKER_00: But um the Pirates actually get the stand Kovalesky.
• 36:48
  SPEAKER_00: This is the spitball guy again, and uh they face off, but Kovalesky allows four runs before being pulled in the seventh, and it led to a six-three win.
• 37:00
  SPEAKER_00: The centers did cut cut the lead four to three in the bottom half of the I think that was a seventh, but the Pirates got the run back in the bottom half of that inning.
• 37:10
  SPEAKER_00: Peckinpaw might have made another error somewhere along the way.
• 37:14
  SPEAKER_00: So they win a big game against Kovalesky who's not having a very good series pitching.
• 37:20
  SPEAKER_00: He gives up six runs in a game that could have been the World Series for the old Washington Senators there.
• 37:26
  SPEAKER_00: So now we're coming back to Pittsburgh down three games to two in a game six.
• 37:32
  SPEAKER_00: And so uh what is Bucky Harris or uh the manager for the Senators and second baseman?
• 37:39
  SPEAKER_00: He trots out um Alex Ferguson.
• 37:44
  SPEAKER_00: Um Alex Ferguson is uh he he he they actually centers get a run first on Goose Goslin's home run, and then they add another run in the second on Roger Peckenpaw's RBI double.
• 37:57
  SPEAKER_00: But the Pirates come back, and Ray Kramer, the pitcher, would shut them out afterward in the third with the runners on second and third.
• 38:04
  SPEAKER_00: And Clyde Barnhart's shutout, ground out, and pie trainers single scored a run each to tie the game.
• 38:12
  SPEAKER_00: Eddie Moore's 15-inning home run put the Pirates up three to two, and they actually finished this game three to two.
• 38:19
  SPEAKER_00: The Pirates have like a lot of different pitchers that they kind of trot out there, like four or five.
• 38:24
  SPEAKER_00: Whereas, like I said, like I think Washington's just kind of riding Walter Johnson.
• 38:30
  SPEAKER_00: They were hoping Kovalesky, who had a great year the year before, just is not helping doing them any favors.
• 38:37
  SPEAKER_00: So and I this Ferguson guy isn't either.
• 38:40
  SPEAKER_00: So that leads us to the Ultimate Game 7 series tied 3-3.
• 38:46
  SPEAKER_00: And this is where the weather comes into play.
• 38:48
  SPEAKER_00: It's October 15th.
• 38:49
  SPEAKER_00: I think actually they had meant to play it a couple days earlier, but it had rained, they had delayed the game.
• 38:55
  SPEAKER_00: And they actually played this game in a uh rain, like a fog.
• 39:01
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, according to Goose Goslin, it was pouring like mad from the third inning on.
• 39:07
  SPEAKER_00: And by the seventh inning, it was so foggy he couldn't see what was going on in the infield.
• 39:13
  SPEAKER_01: Why did they still play it then?
• 39:15
  SPEAKER_00: Well, that was that like they there's obviously been like you know, controversy about that.
• 39:21
  SPEAKER_00: Like um, that they actually wanted Kennesaw Mount Landis to suspend the game, but he just didn't.
• 39:29
  SPEAKER_00: He was like, nope, we're playing it.
• 39:30
  SPEAKER_00: He said, Yeah, you guys bet on baseball, you can go play in the rain.
• 39:34
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 39:36
  SPEAKER_00: Uh yeah.
• 39:38
  SPEAKER_00: So uh the Pirates pitched four different pitchers that game, so they kind of go with almost like a modern strategy, huh?
• 39:46
  SPEAKER_00: Like, whereas like the Senators and Bucky Harris, a player, are just we're going with Walter Johnson.
• 39:51
  SPEAKER_00: I don't blame him, that's their best pitcher, but maybe Walter Johnson is got you know is running out of gas here, right, Tim?
• 40:01
  SPEAKER_00: So the Senators load the base in the first.
• 40:04
  SPEAKER_00: There, there's like a weird a catcher interference call that allowed two runs in the third.
• 40:11
  SPEAKER_00: And uh the Senators were up four to nothing, but the Pirates cut the lead four to three.
• 40:18
  SPEAKER_00: In the fourth, Joe Harris's two-run double extended Washington's lead six to three.
• 40:22
  SPEAKER_00: So the Pirates are down six to three in the fourth inning.
• 40:26
  SPEAKER_00: Wow.
• 40:26
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, back-to-back doubles by Carey and Kiki Kyler.
• 40:30
  SPEAKER_00: Gee, I wonder why these guys are in the Hall of Fame.
• 40:32
  SPEAKER_00: In in the fifth, cut the lead to six to four.
• 40:35
  SPEAKER_00: And then in the seventh, Moore reached first on an error, and that was another Roger Roger Peckinpaw in Trainers RBI triple tied the game.
• 40:48
  SPEAKER_00: Now Roger Peckinpaw redeems himself, and he hits a home run in the eighth off Ray Kramer to put the Senators back on top seven to six.
• 40:56
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so we come to the uh eighth inning of the seventh game of the uh World Series here, and the Pirates, as usual, are down seven to six, as has happened uh a couple times in their history.
• 41:07
  SPEAKER_00: So now we have uh with two outs and no one on uh a batter, the Pirates started their winning rally.
• 41:17
  SPEAKER_00: Um when Smith doubled to right center field, um, a guy named Yide ran for Smith.
• 41:22
  SPEAKER_00: Then McKechney set up Carson Bigby to hit for Kramer, and he duh delivered with a double over Gosslin's head to tie the game.
• 41:32
  SPEAKER_00: So uh the next guy, um, the crowd is going crazy, and a guy named Moore drew a walk, and that was uh actually uh Walter Johnson's first walk of the uh afternoon.
• 41:44
  SPEAKER_00: And then uh then the craziness really gets crazy.
• 41:47
  SPEAKER_00: Uh Max Carey hits a grounder to uh Peckinpaw, who had just become the hero, and he threw to second, but the force out uh was offline, and the umpire ruled that the second baseman Bucky Harris was off the bag, and that was actually ruled an error on the throw.
• 42:03
  SPEAKER_00: So that was uh uh Peckinpaw's uh eighth error of the series, which is that's still a record that stands to this day.
• 42:10
  SPEAKER_00: Um after that, uh the game was held up uh for a little while because um there was more sawdust that was sped around the pitcher's mound, and uh each batter had to wipe off his bat as it came to the plate.
• 42:22
  SPEAKER_00: It was literally pouring rain.
• 42:24
  SPEAKER_00: And so uh Kiki Kyler is up with the series uh tide, and he works to count the two to two, and then he took what uh Muddy Rule, the catcher Walter Johnson, thought was strike three, but uh they literally start to walk off the field, and the uh the umpire McCormick yelled, ball three, so like it was like a big moment, and of course the next pitch, um Kiki hit the ball in the outfield, and uh this is the infamous hit that um the uh Washington outfielder uh Goose Goslin says is uh was foul by two feet, but they called it a ground rule double, and um it's a fair ball, luckily enough for the Pirates, and now they're up nine to seven.
• 43:08
  SPEAKER_00: They did all this with two outs in the shut down the um the the Senators in the bottom half of their ninth, and of course it sets up all kinds of celebration for the um home team of the Pittsburgh Pirates.
• 43:28
  SPEAKER_00: Um so obviously a big hit by Kiki Kyler.
• 43:31
  SPEAKER_00: It was somewhat controversial, but uh, I think the breaks kind of made up for each other with this maybe fair, maybe foul, along with the game three catch, maybe no catch, which the guy from the senator says it was a catch, so I guess we'll go with that.
• 43:45
  SPEAKER_00: But um lots of dramatics in this uh eighth inning and that and then leading into a uh ninth inning where the Pirates uh clinch their uh second World Series win.
• 43:55
  SPEAKER_00: A massive spontaneous parade of Reffle Hirsch stream down Fifth Avenue from Oakland.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_00: Um, where Forbes Field obviously was.
• 44:03
  SPEAKER_00: Some of the post-game comments.
• 44:05
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, Kennesaw Man in Atlantis said he'd be roundly criticized for ever starting the game.
• 44:11
  SPEAKER_00: Mesh let continue.
• 44:13
  SPEAKER_00: He didn't say much.
• 44:15
  SPEAKER_00: Um, Bill McKechnie, the manager of the Pirates, I'm just too happy for words.
• 44:19
  SPEAKER_00: It was a great series.
• 44:20
  SPEAKER_00: I'm simply overcome.
• 44:22
  SPEAKER_00: So are the players.
• 44:22
  SPEAKER_00: Look at them.
• 44:23
  SPEAKER_00: They're like a bunch of madmen, and no wonder.
• 44:25
  SPEAKER_00: We just won a tough ball game and a tough world series, and we're expecting the sensation of baseball champions of the world.
• 44:31
  SPEAKER_00: This is one of the happiest days of my life.
• 44:33
  SPEAKER_00: It's simply great.
• 44:34
  SPEAKER_00: We showed them a wonderful club play.
• 44:36
  SPEAKER_00: We're a wonderful ball club in this series, and particularly today.
• 44:40
  SPEAKER_00: It was tough out there playing on the field in the rain.
• 44:42
  SPEAKER_00: Of course, it was tough for each side, but that doesn't alter the fact that the playing conditions were terrible.
• 44:48
  SPEAKER_00: So uh Bucky Harris, who's the manager, was crestfallen.
• 44:52
  SPEAKER_00: He voiced resentment over the final game being played under such conditions, as also his displeasure as the system that caused the series to start and finish in Pittsburgh.
• 45:01
  SPEAKER_00: He performed all they actually in the old days they used the coin flip to decide where game seven would be held.
• 45:07
  SPEAKER_00: So this instead of this new fangled 2-3-2 stuff.
• 45:12
  SPEAKER_00: Actually, I mean a coin flip may I mean why you maybe because there were so many the records were tied, and I I don't know.
• 45:20
  SPEAKER_00: I would think you could figure it out like ties and runs four, runs against, then maybe like coin flip the fifth tiebreaker or something.
• 45:27
  SPEAKER_00: Normally that's what you do.
• 45:29
  SPEAKER_00: You have like yeah, three or four tiebreakers, and a coin flip is the last one.
• 45:33
  SPEAKER_01: I I guess you could argue since they were such you know, back then it was two separate leagues.
• 45:38
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 45:39
  SPEAKER_01: That if you're gonna use a tiebreaker, it's like not it's apples to oranges.
• 45:43
  SPEAKER_01: Because if the pirates had 95 wins, they were playing against a totally different set of teams than the Senators are playing against.
• 45:49
  SPEAKER_01: If the Senators would have had, I don't know, 90, 92 wins.
• 45:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 45:53
  SPEAKER_01: So I guess you could make that argument.
• 45:57
  SPEAKER_00: Uh Johnson embraced uh Peck at uh Peck and Paul after the game, gracious as always.
• 46:03
  SPEAKER_00: Walter Johnson refused to use the weather or sore leg as an excuse and took the blame himself.
• 46:09
  SPEAKER_00: So Walter Johnson's at least a class act.
• 46:12
  SPEAKER_00: And I can see why people really liked him.
• 46:14
  SPEAKER_00: He was pitching in mud, like I've read that too.
• 46:17
  SPEAKER_00: Um The New York Times, in the weirdest, it is in the wettest, weirdest, and wildest game that 50 years of baseball have ever seen.
• 46:25
  SPEAKER_00: The Pirates today proved the right to the mud horse, Twilight, and all other championships of the national game.
• 46:33
  SPEAKER_00: Water, mud, fog, mists, sawdust, fumbles, muffs, wild throws, wild pitches, one near fist fight, impossible rallies.
• 46:41
  SPEAKER_00: They were these were mixed up to make the best and worst game of baseball ever played in this country.
• 46:47
  SPEAKER_00: Players wallowing ankle deep in mud, pitchers slipping as they delivered the ball to the plate, athletes skidding and sloshing, falling full length and dropping soaked baseballs.
• 46:57
  SPEAKER_00: There you have part of the picture that was unveiled on unveiled and Forbes field this dripping afternoon.
• 47:04
  SPEAKER_00: In a grave of mud was buried Walter Johnson's ambition to join that select panel of pitchers who have won three victory in one World Series, with mud shackling his ankles and water running down his neck.
• 47:18
  SPEAKER_00: The grand old man of baseball succumbed to weariness, a sore leg, sore leg, wretched support in the most miserable miserable weather conditions that ever confronted a pitcher.
• 47:30
  SPEAKER_00: So very nice summary from uh Harrison at the New York Times.
• 47:35
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and and I certainly get the controversy, but it's not like it gave one team an advantage over the other.
• 47:41
  SPEAKER_00: Well, it wasn't like the Pirates had like this perfect playing field, yeah, right there.
• 47:46
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 47:46
  SPEAKER_01: I could see if I could see if it was like a football game and you had a running team versus a passing team or whatever.
• 47:52
  SPEAKER_01: But literally the centers had them two outs in the eighth inning with the lead.
• 47:57
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 47:57
  SPEAKER_00: So it it's not their best pitcher on the mound, but like I think they just pitched them too much.
• 48:02
  SPEAKER_00: They just they just used them a little bit too much.
• 48:05
  SPEAKER_00: And he's he was 37, Tim.
• 48:08
  SPEAKER_00: Like 30, like how many pitchers at 37 could like, you know, I mean uh even today, you know.
• 48:16
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, but he still he was one out away from getting out of that inning, and then it would have been the I guess Pirates still would have had the bottom of the ninth.
• 48:23
  SPEAKER_01: But I mean, he was four outs away from from doing it, even at that.
• 48:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and they they were up three games to one.
• 48:31
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I I I once again, you know, I think it was smart like the manager saving him for game seven and giving him an extra rest after he picks game four.
• 48:39
  SPEAKER_00: So this is a little different than the 1960, where we kind of felt like, you know, what's his name?
• 48:46
  SPEAKER_00: Um uh who's the manager in the C Stengel?
• 48:49
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, kind of burned Whitey Ford, you know.
• 48:52
  SPEAKER_01: You would definitely never see a pitcher being left in after he surrendered six runs.
• 48:56
  SPEAKER_01: Because that's I mean, it was seven to six at the end of the day.
• 48:58
  SPEAKER_00: And according to if I'm reading it correctly, before that eighth inning, he already pitched 18.
• 49:03
  SPEAKER_00: What's 18 plus eight?
• 49:05
  SPEAKER_00: Is that 26 innings?
• 49:07
  SPEAKER_00: 26 innings in a world series.
• 49:10
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 49:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, but I guess back then it was that was just what you did.
• 49:15
  SPEAKER_01: Although that's not what the to your point, that's not what the pirates did.
• 49:18
  SPEAKER_01: It wasn't like that was unheard of to use multiple pitchers.
• 49:21
  SPEAKER_01: I guess I guess they just thought Walter Johnson's an all-time great, and you just leave them in and you either win with them or you lose with them, because nobody else on the staff, as they proved in the other games, nobody else on the staff was was you know anywhere close to the bigger.
• 49:35
  SPEAKER_00: When they couldn't throw their spitballs, I guess.
• 49:38
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, exactly.
• 49:39
  SPEAKER_00: And like like you said, like spitball wasn't just like you would take it and rub it in the dirt, and you would like take tobacco juice and and like they didn't change the balls out like early, you know.
• 49:52
  SPEAKER_00: So the ball would like by the sixth inning, would you couldn't see it?
• 49:55
  SPEAKER_00: It was like all black, like and never mind on a day like today, you know, like not today, but you know, in October 15th, 1925, you know, in the wrecking.
• 50:07
  SPEAKER_00: So anyway, uh as for a little bit of an epilogue, uh, Max Carey, um, he had a 343 batting average.
• 50:17
  SPEAKER_00: Um, he had that deciding uh double.
• 50:20
  SPEAKER_00: Um he led uh all average at 458, uh led all players in the series.
• 50:27
  SPEAKER_00: So uh he had pretty pretty awesome.
• 50:29
  SPEAKER_00: Kiki Kyler had that two-run double, the bottom of the eighth that made the scores nine to seven.
• 50:36
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, that was the only time Kyler would win a World Series.
• 50:39
  SPEAKER_00: Um Walter Johnson's record of 3,508 strikeouts stood for more than 55 years until Nolan Ryland, Steve Carlton, Gailard Perry all surpassed it in that order during the 1983 season.
• 50:54
  SPEAKER_00: Johnson, as of 2017, ranks ninth on the all-time strikeout list.
• 51:00
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, among the pre-World War II contemporary, the only two men with a thousand strikeouts were Johnson and uh Cy Young.
• 51:10
  SPEAKER_00: Um Tim McKeef and Bob Feller both had over 2,500 strikeouts.
• 51:17
  SPEAKER_00: So you know, uh he won a World Series in 1924.
• 51:22
  SPEAKER_00: Um in 1927, Johnson's request for an unconditional release release from the club was granted.
• 51:30
  SPEAKER_00: Um he was one of the first, there it is, the first five players like to the baseball hall of fame.
• 51:35
  SPEAKER_00: It was Ty Cobb, Christy Matthews, and Babe Ruth, and of course Tonus Wagner.
• 51:44
  SPEAKER_00: Um Clark Griffith, he died, the owner of the Washington Centers, he died in 1955.
• 51:49
  SPEAKER_00: His nephew and adopted son Calvin took over the team presidency.
• 51:53
  SPEAKER_00: They sold Griffiths Stadium to the city of Washington and leased it back.
• 51:58
  SPEAKER_00: Imagine that.
• 51:58
  SPEAKER_00: A team not wanting to have uh ownership of a stadium.
• 52:02
  SPEAKER_00: Um, especially speculation was the team was gonna move, um, which the team did in 1960, which they moved to the Minnesota Twins, and the twins still haven't won a Road World Series game since 1925.
• 52:16
  SPEAKER_01: Wow, but they've won two World Series.
• 52:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 52:20
  SPEAKER_00: Uh the old Washington Senators became the new Minnesota Twins.
• 52:25
  SPEAKER_00: So baseball kind of pulled a Cleveland Browns Baltimore Ravens move when the uh the team came back in the league in 1961.
• 52:33
  SPEAKER_00: So and then they would move again in 1972 into Texas and became the Texas Rangers.
• 52:41
  SPEAKER_00: And baseball would not come back to Washington until 2005, when the former Montreal Expos became the Washington Nationals.
• 52:49
  SPEAKER_00: And of course, the Nationals won the World Series in nine 2019, and that was Washington's first World Series win since 1924.
• 52:58
  SPEAKER_00: So almost a hundred years for long-suffering fans of the Washington baseball franchises.
• 53:09
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so what happened with Max Carey, Fred Clark, and Bill McKechnie?
• 53:13
  SPEAKER_00: Well, there was a very ugly team in a incident the next season, which I've alluded to.
• 53:19
  SPEAKER_00: Um actually, yeah, in 1926.
• 53:22
  SPEAKER_00: Uh Fred Clark, who is now the team vice president and the serving, he would sit on the bench, you know, boss, you know, try and tell Bill McKechney what to do.
• 53:31
  SPEAKER_00: So he actually like wanted um Carey, he wanted uh Max Carey to get benched.
• 53:37
  SPEAKER_00: Well, they didn't like that, so the players all voted to remove Fred Clark from the bench.
• 53:44
  SPEAKER_00: So uh Bill McKechney actually sided with the players at first, but then when ownership found out about it, like you gotta remember this is like 1926, so like ownership and unions, and there wasn't a baseball union, and you just kind of did whatever the owners told you to do.
• 54:02
  SPEAKER_00: That was kind of how it worked back then.
• 54:04
  SPEAKER_00: So they got rid of Adams and Big Me, who were two of the people that they thought, and then Kerry was suspended because Carrie's a good player, and good players don't get kicked off the team.
• 54:14
  SPEAKER_00: But then the Pirates did place Carrie on waivers, and he was claimed by some team called the Brooklyn Robbins.
• 54:20
  SPEAKER_00: Um, Carrie played his finally three and a half years with the Robbins.
• 54:24
  SPEAKER_00: He really wasn't the same player, he retired in 1929.
• 54:28
  SPEAKER_00: Um Max Carey did return to the Pirates as a coach in the 1930 series.
• 54:35
  SPEAKER_00: Um Bill McKechney for all his craziness and that whole situation where the players started to revolt against Fred Clark.
• 54:43
  SPEAKER_00: He actually got fired after 1926.
• 54:46
  SPEAKER_00: Like that whole incident 1926 kind of killed this team.
• 54:49
  SPEAKER_00: They were never quite the same.
• 54:52
  SPEAKER_00: But don't cry too hard.
• 54:53
  SPEAKER_00: He would go on and win pennants with three different teams.
• 54:56
  SPEAKER_00: Bill McHeckney also won a World Series with the Cincinnati Reds in 1940.
• 55:02
  SPEAKER_00: He was an assistant manager on the Cleveland Indians World Series in 1948.
• 55:08
  SPEAKER_00: Um, hey, have Cleveland won a World Series.
• 55:10
  SPEAKER_00: No, hey, Cleveland hasn't won a World Series since 1948 either.
• 55:14
  SPEAKER_00: Well, boo-hoo for them.
• 55:16
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe they should have kept Bill McHechney a little longer.
• 55:18
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 55:20
  SPEAKER_00: Um, McKechney was the first manager to win World Series titles with two different teams.
• 55:25
  SPEAKER_00: He remains one of only two managers to win pennants with three teams.
• 55:29
  SPEAKER_00: Um, he's, of course, inducted into the Baseball Hall of Fame in 1962.
• 55:34
  SPEAKER_00: He retired to Bradington, Florida, Tim.
• 55:37
  SPEAKER_00: And can you imagine what is in Bradenton, Florida?
• 55:40
  SPEAKER_00: That would be the Pirates Spring training home.
• 55:42
  SPEAKER_00: McKeckney Field, which was named after Bill McEckney, has now been, you know, Bob Nutting being the settlemental type that it is sold that the naming rights to that stadium for cash money, and they renamed it Lee Comm Field.
• 55:57
  SPEAKER_00: So the heck with you, Bill McHeckney.
• 56:00
  SPEAKER_00: And you're you're you know not siding with management ways.
• 56:04
  SPEAKER_01: So they got him to it's just funny that the ownership continued to get them back for years and years after that.
• 56:12
  SPEAKER_00: Different owners, yeah, hundreds of years removed.
• 56:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 56:17
  SPEAKER_00: So take that, Bill McKechnie.
• 56:20
  SPEAKER_00: Um, Kiki Kyler uh was part of the decision to remove Fred Clark.
• 56:25
  SPEAKER_00: He actually compiled over 200 hits over three separate seasons.
• 56:29
  SPEAKER_00: He was elected a Hall of Fame in 1968 by the Veterans Committee.
• 56:33
  SPEAKER_00: He had a lot of injuries.
• 56:34
  SPEAKER_00: He finished out his career with the Cubs, where he never really won another World Series.
• 56:40
  SPEAKER_00: Um, Kyler was known around the league as a polite, shy kind of player.
• 56:44
  SPEAKER_00: Um fellow Hall of Famer Joe Cromer said he was one of the finest and cleanest living fellows I ever met.
• 56:51
  SPEAKER_00: Kyler was an established star when I joined the Pirates, but he's always willing to help.
• 56:56
  SPEAKER_00: He was a model.
• 56:57
  SPEAKER_00: The sporting news stated that he was a model on and off the field.
• 57:02
  SPEAKER_00: Isn't that nice?
• 57:04
  SPEAKER_00: Uh Fred Clark was elected to the Baseball Hall of Fame in 1945.
• 57:09
  SPEAKER_00: He was one of the first to be elected by the Old Timers Committee.
• 57:13
  SPEAKER_00: He was one of the 24 original inductees in the Iowa Sports Hall of Fame.
• 57:18
  SPEAKER_00: Ooh, sounds prestigious.
• 57:21
  SPEAKER_00: Um in 1947, while finishing fish fishing in northern Minnesota, he and his wife were thrown into the icy water by a storm, but he was back out the next day.
• 57:33
  SPEAKER_00: Um, he was also almost shot while quail hunting.
• 57:36
  SPEAKER_00: He survived the gas furnace explosion.
• 57:39
  SPEAKER_00: You just can't get rid of Fred Clark there.
• 57:41
  SPEAKER_00: He's a tough old bird.
• 57:43
  SPEAKER_00: Can't get him off the bench, can't get him off the planet.
• 57:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 57:47
  SPEAKER_00: So finally he passed away at age 87.
• 57:50
  SPEAKER_00: You figured this dude lived through like influenza, two world wars and his gas furnace explosions and falling in the lake.
• 57:59
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I thought I thought you were gonna say something like finally he passed away from you know COVID in 2021.
• 58:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 58:07
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 58:08
  SPEAKER_01: At 127 years old or whatever.
• 58:11
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 58:12
  SPEAKER_00: Um for Pi Trainer, he led NL third baseman in put out seven times, double play four times, assist three times, his four-to-one double plays in 1925 were now record until 1950.
• 58:26
  SPEAKER_00: His put outs remained the MA highest NL total since 1905.
• 58:33
  SPEAKER_00: He set major league records for career double plays in that third base.
• 58:38
  SPEAKER_00: That was finally broken in 1945 and 1960.
• 58:42
  SPEAKER_00: He became a uh inducted the baseball hall of fame in 1948, become the initial third base and elected by the baseball writers hall of fame of America.
• 58:52
  SPEAKER_00: Um, the Pirates as an organization uh did return to the World Series in 1927, but um they were swept by some team from New York that may have had you know Gehrig and you know, Ruth and a bunch of other guys who really hit a bunch of home runs.
• 59:11
  SPEAKER_00: The Pirates remained competitive throughout the 1930s but failed to win the penant.
• 59:16
  SPEAKER_00: The closest they came was in 1938 when they were passed by the Chicago Cubs in the final week of the season.
• 59:23
  SPEAKER_00: And of course, you know, they went on another long World Series drought.
• 59:27
  SPEAKER_00: They didn't make the World Series against until 1960.
• 59:30
  SPEAKER_00: So and we've covered that World Series too.
• 59:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 59:35
  SPEAKER_00: Uh so some nagging questions.
• 59:37
  SPEAKER_00: Why is this World Series so forgotten?
• 59:40
  SPEAKER_00: Why doesn't anybody remember it?
• 59:42
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I think number one, the senators don't exist anymore, so they're not really a team that anybody would ever talk about.
• 59:48
  SPEAKER_00: Nobody's gonna talk about the Texas Rangers or the well, I guess it would technically be the twins.
• 59:54
  SPEAKER_00: So nobody really talks about them.
• 59:57
  SPEAKER_00: It's not really recent.
• 59:58
  SPEAKER_00: It's like I said, it's almost gonna be a hundred years old since this happened.
• 1:00:02
  SPEAKER_00: There's no TV footage of it.
• 1:00:04
  SPEAKER_00: There's nobody, you know, really that remembers it.
• 1:00:07
  SPEAKER_00: There's nobody like Babe Ruth or the Yankees weren't in it.
• 1:00:10
  SPEAKER_00: It's I mean, Walter Johnson is famous, but because he doesn't have a team that like is so ballyhooed.
• 1:00:17
  SPEAKER_00: I think too, like, you know, Walter Johnson is famous, but because he played on the Washington team, it doesn't it really relive.
• 1:00:25
  SPEAKER_00: Like wherever you go, oh, Babe Ruth, the Yankees, you know, there's no like Minnesota Twins, Walter Johnson.
• 1:00:30
  SPEAKER_00: You know, nobody ever thinks of that.
• 1:00:32
  SPEAKER_00: You think of who do you think of Minnesota Twins?
• 1:00:35
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 1:00:36
  SPEAKER_00: Uh that picture with the funky mustache, right?
• 1:00:39
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, Harmon Killebrew or even like Jack Morris, like some of the things that's who I'm thinking, yeah, that's who I think of.
• 1:00:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 1:00:47
  SPEAKER_00: So there's no real like guy you think of with that organization.
• 1:00:52
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that makes that makes sense.
• 1:00:54
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, you're right, because once you you usually celebrate the history of the players that played on that franchise, not the one that was in a different city.
• 1:01:02
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, does the current does the current Washington team celebrate, I don't know, Tim Rains?
• 1:01:07
  SPEAKER_01: Because you know, the Expos player is probably not probably not the same thing.
• 1:01:12
  SPEAKER_00: Uh hey, here's another burning question.
• 1:01:15
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, why do the pirates only win World Series in seven games?
• 1:01:19
  SPEAKER_00: Uh and uh and another fun fact are the pirates are five and oh in game sevens.
• 1:01:26
  SPEAKER_00: You don't want to play the pirates in game seven of your world series.
• 1:01:29
  SPEAKER_00: You're you're gonna be in trouble, right?
• 1:01:31
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, we covered that in the last fun facts episode.
• 1:01:34
  SPEAKER_01: And it's it's the odds of that are pretty amazing.
• 1:01:37
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, a one-game thing and they won all five.
• 1:01:41
  SPEAKER_01: I I just think the odds of that are and then how many times do they come back from three to one because they did it again in what 79?
• 1:01:48
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:01:48
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, I mean, that's that's also pretty rare.
• 1:01:52
  SPEAKER_01: Um so yeah, don't want to get to a seventh game of the world series against the pirates, but uh fortunately none of the other 20-something major league baseball teams will have to worry about that anytime in the near future.
• 1:02:06
  SPEAKER_00: So uh, you know, that's just kind of all I have on that.
• 1:02:09
  SPEAKER_00: The Pirates uh win the 1925 World Series.
• 1:02:12
  SPEAKER_00: We should remember it for the people, you know, Kiki Kyler, Pie Trainer, and you know, some of the pitchers, yeah, and Aldridge and some of the other guys that you had great World Series.
• 1:02:22
  SPEAKER_00: Um you know, he he never Walter Johnson never appeared in another World Series.
• 1:02:28
  SPEAKER_00: He retired by the time the Senators made the World Series in 1933 again.
• 1:02:32
  SPEAKER_00: Um good for them, good for Kiki Kyler and Max Carey and you know, Pie Trainer and all the pirate fans of that era that I'm sure and I'm sure Al Jolson is still boo-hooing over all the smoke in Pittsburgh.
• 1:02:47
  SPEAKER_00: So suck it in suck it, Washington and New York.
• 1:02:53
  SPEAKER_00: I hope you enjoyed that walk down, I don't know, informative walk down memory lane, kind of, maybe sort of.
• 1:03:00
  SPEAKER_00: Um thanks for tuning in and uh check us out on all your usual podcast stuff.
• 1:03:06
  SPEAKER_00: So uh we'll have some links, I'm sure, to fun facts I'll laugh at Alt later.
• 1:03:13
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks for thanks for tuning in.