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When to DIY and When to Ask for Help: The Small Brewery Dilemma · Craft Brewery Financial Training Podcast

• 0:00
  Kary Shumway: Today on the podcast, I speak with Sarah Watson from Vacancy Brewing in Austin, texas.
• 0:03
  Kary Shumway: This is our brewery spotlight on the business of beer real-world insights from breweries who are making it work.
• 0:08
  Kary Shumway: So each month, we shine a spotlight on one exceptional craft brewery to explore what makes their business thrive.
• 0:15
  Kary Shumway: And in my conversation with Sarah, we go beyond the beer and talk about best practices, smart financial strategies, creative sales tactics and real-world lessons.
• 0:26
  Kary Shumway: So this is your front row seat to learn from your peers who are building profitable, resilient breweries and raising the bar for the industry.
• 0:34
  Kary Shumway: So for now, please enjoy my conversation with Sarah Watson from Vacancy Brewing.
• 0:40
  Kary Shumway: Welcome to the Craft Brewery Financial Training Podcast, where we combine beer and numbers to provide you with tips, tactics and strategies so that you can improve financial results in your brewery.
• 0:50
  Kary Shumway: I'm your host, kerry Shumway, a CPA, cfo for a brewery and a former CFO for a beer distributor.
• 0:57
  Kary Shumway: I've spent the last 20 years using finance to improve financial results in our beer business.
• 1:02
  Kary Shumway: Now I'm helping other craft breweries to do the same.
• 1:05
  Kary Shumway: Are you ready to take your brewery financial results to the next level?
• 1:09
  Kary Shumway: Okay, let's get started.
• 1:11
  Kary Shumway: Just a quick note.
• 1:16
  Kary Shumway: We'll be right back to the podcast.
• 1:18
  Kary Shumway: I want to let you know about a new network for beer industry professionals.
• 1:22
  Kary Shumway: It's called the Beer Business Finance Association.
• 1:25
  Kary Shumway: It's an organization of financial pros just like you, looking to improve financial results, increase profitability, connect with your peers and share best practices.
• 1:36
  Kary Shumway: So I'd love to tell you a little bit more about this.
• 1:39
  Kary Shumway: If you are interested in learning more, please email me, kerry at beerbusinessfinancecom.
• 1:44
  Kary Shumway: That's K-A-R-Y at beerbusinessfinancecom.
• 1:45
  Kary Shumway: That's K-A-R-Y at beerbusinessfinancecom.
• 1:49
  Kary Shumway: Or you can visit bbfassociationorg.
• 1:52
  Kary Shumway: That's bbfassociationorg.
• 1:55
  Kary Shumway: To learn more.
• 1:56
  Kary Shumway: Hey, sarah, welcome to the Craft Brewery Financial Training Podcast.
• 2:01
  Sara Watson: Thank you, kerry, excited to be here.
• 2:03
  Kary Shumway: It is exciting to have you here.
• 2:05
  Kary Shumway: I'm looking forward to our discussion.
• 2:07
  Kary Shumway: So why don't you give people a little bit of background on you?
• 2:10
  Sara Watson: Yeah, Well my name is Sarah Watson.
• 2:14
  Sara Watson: I run a brewery alongside my husband here in Austin, texas.
• 2:18
  Sara Watson: So we've been open about four and a half years now and we're called Vacancy Brewing.
• 2:22
  Sara Watson: Four and a half years now and we're called Vacancy Brewing.
• 2:28
  Sara Watson: So we actually met out in California and my husband has a brewing background.
• 2:30
  Sara Watson: So he went to school for fermentation science and then ended up working at Trumer Pilsner in the Bay Area, worked his way up to being the head brewer there and then, you know, I've been in hospitality since I can remember I had my first restaurant job as soon as I could work and then ended up in a hospitality marketing career.
• 2:51
  Sara Watson: So we met and Brent has his parents are entrepreneurs, so he always kind of had that itch and we knew we wanted to start something together.
• 2:58
  Sara Watson: So and we knew we also wanted to leave California and find a different place to kind of make this reality come to reality.
• 3:05
  Sara Watson: So we took a six month road trip across the US and Canada.
• 3:10
  Sara Watson: A lot of it was for fun, stopping in to see friends and family and doing some of the national parks, but a big another big part of it was really just trying to find where we wanted to make this business come to life.
• 3:20
  Sara Watson: So Austin had been on the top of our list and on that trip it just kind of confirmed that this is where we wanted to settle in.
• 3:27
  Sara Watson: So we moved to Austin and hit the ground running from there.
• 3:30
  Sara Watson: So we've been open about four and a half years now here in Texas.
• 3:34
  Kary Shumway: That's fantastic, that's so cool.
• 3:36
  Kary Shumway: The road trip right.
• 3:37
  Kary Shumway: So how like?
• 3:38
  Kary Shumway: So, if Austin was number one, what were other cities?
• 3:41
  Sara Watson: So we loved North Carolina, love North Carolina.
• 3:44
  Sara Watson: It's a beautiful state.
• 3:45
  Sara Watson: And then I mean San Diego was another favorite of ours.
• 3:50
  Sara Watson: I think we were trying to find something more affordable, though.
• 3:53
  Sara Watson: So we're trying to leave California, so that's kind of what.
• 3:56
  Sara Watson: What put Austin on our radar, and I have a ton of family here, so it just kind of it all kind of aligned to work out this way.
• 4:04
  Kary Shumway: That's very cool, and so you guys combined forces.
• 4:07
  Kary Shumway: You know you were in hospitality and marketing and your husband on the brewing side and, as you kind of like, looked at what, maybe what's the origin story for creating.
• 4:17
  Kary Shumway: I understand that you know Brent was a brewer and marketing, but what was like?
• 4:23
  Kary Shumway: Because you could probably do any number of things what did you choose?
• 4:27
  Sara Watson: Well, I think Brent had the passion for beer and he's very focused and very dedicated and it's something I really admire about him.
• 4:35
  Sara Watson: But he is always just trying to improve his craft, so I think that passion really played a huge part of it.
• 4:42
  Sara Watson: And then, as a marketing professional, I think my passion is really just creating experiences for people in a space.
• 4:49
  Sara Watson: So before this I was working in hotels, so that would you know, everyone loves to travel, so it was really fun helping create those experiences for people on trips.
• 5:00
  Sara Watson: And now it's just all about creating those experiences in a tap room.
• 5:03
  Sara Watson: So for me it wasn't necessarily about the beer but creating the community and the atmosphere and the space.
• 5:08
  Sara Watson: So it's kind of bringing those two passions together.
• 5:11
  Sara Watson: The brewery just kind of worked out perfectly for that.
• 5:15
  Kary Shumway: Nice, yeah, that's so important to do that, to really stand apart, and that's what people are looking for.
• 5:20
  Kary Shumway: They want these experiences.
• 5:21
  Kary Shumway: Sure, they want beer, but they want to definitely everything too.
• 5:29
  Sara Watson: So that was a big lesson that we've learned in the first few years is a lot of I mean people are coming to our space.
• 5:31
  Sara Watson: Obviously, we have great beer and that's kind of the baseline of what you need to start a brewery, I think.
• 5:35
  Sara Watson: But it's really about the community and the connections that have been built within our tap room that keeps the people coming back.
• 5:41
  Sara Watson: So we definitely learned over the years that we should definitely lean into that and embrace it.
• 5:48
  Kary Shumway: So running a small business, a brewery, can be pretty challenging and there's lots of obstacles.
• 5:54
  Kary Shumway: Maybe let's start with something positive and maybe, as you look back over the last you know, six to 12 months or so like what's been the biggest win.
• 6:04
  Sara Watson: So I'd say our biggest win over the past 12 months has really been hiring a top room manager, which seems like it might be obvious, but you know, we've been open for four and a half years now and we are very much a small do it yourself team.
• 6:19
  Sara Watson: We've stayed really lean in these last four and a half years in terms of our staff.
• 6:23
  Sara Watson: So and I'm a do-it-yourselfer I wanted to have my hands in everything.
• 6:27
  Sara Watson: I wanted to be able to do all of the things that it takes to run the business.
• 6:32
  Sara Watson: But I think one of the biggest things we really learned was knowing when to take to ask for help.
• 6:38
  Sara Watson: And I think bringing on the top room manager position has really helped us kind of take a step back, my partner and I, brent, and focus on the bigger picture part of the business.
• 6:49
  Sara Watson: So we've really been able to think about how to drive the business forward, refocus on business development and give someone else ownership of the day-to-day operation.
• 6:58
  Sara Watson: So that's been a huge win for us.
• 7:00
  Sara Watson: I know a lot of people are like why didn't you open with a manager?
• 7:03
  Sara Watson: But we were a little stubborn in that aspect.
• 7:07
  Sara Watson: But I'd say it's really helped us kind of grow this year and help us reach some of our goals that we've set out.
• 7:15
  Kary Shumway: It's such a tough decision too, because I think that's pretty typical.
• 7:19
  Kary Shumway: You know, we want to do it ourselves, and I think that's very admirable in the beginning, because you want to learn, like, what's going on, what are the things that I need to be aware of.
• 7:25
  Kary Shumway: But yeah, I applaud you guys for doing that, because a lot of folks aren't quite knowing when to take that step.
• 7:33
  Kary Shumway: It's like, oh geez, I can't afford it, I can just do it myself.
• 7:35
  Sara Watson: Right, and I think one thing too is our top room manager is still behind the bar for part of the week.
• 7:43
  Sara Watson: So I think one of the things that helped us take that step is to think creatively about how to structure the position.
• 7:50
  Sara Watson: So you know, we were under the impression that we needed to make this position salary and we were not ready to afford that.
• 7:58
  Sara Watson: But we really kind of pieced it out to where it was manageable for us and really thought about ways to make it good for them and then good for us as well.
• 8:08
  Kary Shumway: Yeah, no, that makes sense, and I think that's the this.
• 8:13
  Kary Shumway: Relying on other people or building systems and teams is such a critical thing to do, and if you ever want to kind of get out of working in the business and you want to work on it right Cause I think that's your one of your goals as well as, like I know how to do these things, but it's time to you know, bring in other team members to help take the business to the next level.
• 8:37
  Sara Watson: Definitely.
• 8:38
  Kary Shumway: So let's talk about the operation side of the business.
• 8:42
  Kary Shumway: I know you're more, you know, marketing focused, but maybe what is like one operational practice you guys have implemented that maybe improved efficiency or helped improve profits for you?
• 8:54
  Sara Watson: Yeah.
• 8:54
  Sara Watson: So one thing we've really focused on this year is tightening up our approach to beer loss and discounts.
• 8:59
  Sara Watson: So that has helped a ton.
• 9:01
  Sara Watson: When we really dug into the numbers, I'm sure a lot of breweries find this.
• 9:07
  Sara Watson: You know we're giving away a lot more beer than we needed to and you know that's everywhere, everything from overpouring to loose updating our policies around comps and discounts to create more clear boundaries for our team.
• 9:30
  Sara Watson: So you know we still want to make sure we're generous when needed and then not defaulting to giving free beer all the time, but finding other ways to make that experience special for the customer versus just defaulting to giving a discount.
• 9:46
  Sara Watson: So it's one of those changes that I think takes time.
• 9:49
  Sara Watson: It's kind of a shift in the culture and the mentality of our team.
• 9:53
  Sara Watson: So it's little changes here and there that kind of lead up to a bigger outcome.
• 9:59
  Sara Watson: So we did see this effect kind of take over a few months, but after a few months of starting to make these small changes we really did see a big outcome.
• 10:09
  Sara Watson: And then one of the things that really helped with us too is being transparent with our team, so sharing the numbers of how many dollars it is adding up to the things that we are discounting.
• 10:21
  Sara Watson: I think it's a lot for us to see, but then to share that with the team and to know how that's really affecting the business.
• 10:28
  Sara Watson: I think the transparency really makes a big difference in you know, getting a buy-in from the team and they're they're all wanting to do their part in working toward that goal.
• 10:40
  Kary Shumway: That's great.
• 10:41
  Kary Shumway: Yeah, to underscore a couple of things you said, I think I see that a lot with the breweries that I work with is the discounts tend to get out of control.
• 10:48
  Kary Shumway: Maybe they're not tightly managed, maybe we really don't even know what they are.
• 10:51
  Kary Shumway: So you guys dug in.
• 10:52
  Kary Shumway: You're like, whoa, we got to think about this.
• 10:54
  Kary Shumway: And then the transparency is important, because sometimes discounts or these things can maybe feel like entitlement sometimes.
• 11:01
  Kary Shumway: Well, that's just, it's always been that way.
• 11:03
  Kary Shumway: So, to be open and honest and transparent in your communications about what your goals are and what you're trying to do with your team, you know, I imagine you'd still have some people that are like bummed out about it, but at the same time, it's like you.
• 11:15
  Kary Shumway: Your obligation is is to the, to the business, to the organization, in order to, you know, make it financially viable and sustainable.
• 11:23
  Kary Shumway: And there's still ways to, you know, give these perks, but within a framework of what makes sense, right.
• 11:31
  Sara Watson: And I think it all goes back to training and setting those expectations too from the very beginning, which is something we, you know, didn't do from the start.
• 11:39
  Sara Watson: So it did take some time to kind, of course, correct and reset those expectations with our team and reset the expectations with the customers too, because if they were used to coming in and getting a free beer all the time, you know, we kind of had to reset that expectation for them as well.
• 12:27
  Kary Shumway: So let's talk about financial performance in terms of key metrics.
• 12:32
  Kary Shumway: It's one of my favorite things to talk about and I know you have a lot of numbers that you track.
• 12:37
  Kary Shumway: So if you're thinking about financial performance, what are the metrics that you and your team look at regularly?
• 12:45
  Sara Watson: So regularly.
• 12:46
  Sara Watson: We meet as a team weekly and the things that we're looking at in real time is our taproom net sales, and we look at that every week and we compare that to the same time last year and then we also compare to our budgeted goal so we can kind of have a real time idea of if we're on track to meet that goal for the month.
• 13:09
  Sara Watson: So this gives us some good intel.
• 13:12
  Sara Watson: It tells us if we need to kind of get creative, think of some ideas on ways to push and really get closer to that goal, if we're behind or if we're doing well, keep doing what we're doing.
• 13:21
  Sara Watson: But it's a really good pulse check for us to see how we're trending towards our goals.
• 13:29
  Sara Watson: So that's something we look at on a weekly basis.
• 13:32
  Sara Watson: Of course we look at a lot more numbers monthly, but I like to, you know, instead of looking at things retroactively, it's a nice way to look ahead and make sure we're on track whatnot are always like what's already happened, but the meetings that you guys are having are really more looking forward.
• 13:54
  Sara Watson: Like where are we?
• 13:55
  Kary Shumway: where do we need to be?
• 13:56
  Kary Shumway: What are we going to do to improve?
• 13:57
  Kary Shumway: I think that fundamental shift is super important to kind of get where you want to go.
• 14:03
  Sara Watson: Yeah, we like to.
• 14:04
  Sara Watson: You know, of course we look at that net sale number, but then we also look at it broken down by category so we can kind of know like, okay, if it is low, where is it low?
• 14:14
  Sara Watson: Is it low in beer to go?
• 14:15
  Sara Watson: Is it low in draft beer, which you kind of tell us like was the taproom slow?
• 14:19
  Sara Watson: Are we not upselling beer to go?
• 14:21
  Sara Watson: Were our frozens down that week?
• 14:23
  Sara Watson: Did we need, you know?
• 14:24
  Sara Watson: Was there a day that the frozen machine wasn't on?
• 14:27
  Sara Watson: Do we need to look into that?
• 14:28
  Sara Watson: So that kind of helps give us more real-time data and figure out what things we need to address and if we need to be pushing certain items and things like that.
• 14:40
  Kary Shumway: Say a little bit more about the Froze.
• 14:41
  Kary Shumway: What's your experience with that?
• 14:43
  Kary Shumway: What kind of yeah?
• 14:45
  Sara Watson: So we lease a machine that we've kind of experimented with over the years.
• 14:50
  Sara Watson: Right now we have on a frosé and we actually use our housemates seltzer as the base.
• 14:56
  Sara Watson: We actually used to use a sake based spirit because we're a brew pub so we can't have liquor, so we use a sake based spirit.
• 15:04
  Sara Watson: But we just started recently, within the last year, making that in house.
• 15:08
  Sara Watson: So that's another thing that has helped us improve our margins there is bringing that production in house and we kind of just experiment with different recipes.
• 15:16
  Sara Watson: Right now it's a frosé.
• 15:17
  Sara Watson: We've done things from a frozen Baja Blast, a frozen boozy s'mores drink before.
• 15:24
  Sara Watson: So they're kind of fun novelty drinks.
• 15:27
  Sara Watson: But it's nice to keep our eye on it because if certain recipes aren't selling, we know we need to switch that up.
• 15:32
  Sara Watson: We attempted a boozy coffee earlier this year and didn't quite work out as we expected.
• 15:38
  Sara Watson: So we're like why are these numbers down?
• 15:40
  Sara Watson: And we kind of hit us that, oh, I think it's the recipe.
• 15:44
  Sara Watson: We need to tweak that a little bit.
• 15:45
  Sara Watson: People aren't buying it as much as they were with the frosé or other recipes.
• 15:55
  Sara Watson: So it was a nice way to kind of see in real time and be able to to address it as it was happening.
• 15:57
  Kary Shumway: Nice, I like that and you guys are obviously in a pretty warm weather.
• 16:02
  Sara Watson: Yes, it's hot Help, definitely.
• 16:06
  Kary Shumway: So that's great.
• 16:07
  Kary Shumway: So one of the other big challenges you know facing tap rooms, breweries is, you know, getting people in Right, so driving traffic and then, once they are in, like boosting those online sales.
• 16:21
  Kary Shumway: So what are some ways that you guys have tried to bring more people into your tap room?
• 16:30
  Sara Watson: people into your taproom, yeah, so I mean, like I said, we've been open four and a half years and brand awareness has is a constant battle.
• 16:34
  Sara Watson: You know we're still working.
• 16:35
  Sara Watson: We're in a bigger city, so we're definitely still working to get our name out and increase that brand awareness.
• 16:40
  Sara Watson: So I think that's just going to be something that we're always working towards.
• 16:44
  Sara Watson: So this year, we've kind of had four categories of focusing on things to get people into the taproom and staying longer, and this was something you know in our yearly planning that we actually set out and we said these are the things we're going to focus on in terms of increasing our brand awareness, and really that first one is all about keeping the people that are already there in longer, like you mentioned.
• 17:05
  Sara Watson: So one of the big things we've been working on is improving the taproom experience, so once people are in the door, we want them to be comfortable, stay longer, and a couple of things we've implemented for that is we have a new food truck partner, good Vibrations Pizza Company, so we don't do any food in-house.
• 17:23
  Sara Watson: So if people are sitting having drinks, of course food goes hand in hand with.
• 17:27
  Sara Watson: That makes people stay longer instead of grabbing one and then going to a restaurant somewhere else.
• 17:31
  Sara Watson: We want them to say have some pizza, have some beer, hang out, have drinks after they're done eating.
• 17:37
  Sara Watson: So that's been a real game changer for us.
• 17:40
  Sara Watson: And then, in addition to that, we have made some other improvements.
• 17:44
  Sara Watson: We added an outdoor patio area that with some nice shade again, it's very hot in Texas so people don't want to be melting in the sun We've added comfortable bar stools.
• 17:53
  Sara Watson: So little simple changes that have really helped.
• 17:56
  Sara Watson: Once people are in the door, stay a little bit longer.
• 18:00
  Sara Watson: And then another thing we've focused on this year is collaborations, which we've done over the years.
• 18:05
  Sara Watson: But just to refocus on that, partnering with breweries and brands whose audiences align with our audiences has been really important.
• 18:14
  Sara Watson: So being selective about who we're partnering with, making sure that there is a goal in mind when we're doing these things and it is fun too, but we want to make sure that there's a goal behind it and a lot of the times it's nice for us to be able to kind of cross-pollinate, introduce our brand to their audience and vice versa.
• 18:33
  Sara Watson: So that's been a huge help.
• 18:35
  Sara Watson: Working with breweries that have been a little bit more established or been around a little bit longer than us Kind of helps get our name out there and bring new people into our taproom.
• 18:46
  Kary Shumway: Oh, that's great, yeah, those are great ideas and I think, like the collaboration thing, it seems so like these ideas need to be implemented and executed and it takes some time and energy and effort, and I think so for folks who are listening like, oh, ok, a collaboration, but you really just embrace that and done the hard work to make them work that and done the hard work to make them work.
• 19:13
  Sara Watson: Yeah, and I think one of the things we have learned over the years with the collaborations is, like you said, really you know making sure you're getting the most out of it.
• 19:18
  Sara Watson: So of course, we can make the beer thread on our menu.
• 19:21
  Sara Watson: Our customers are going to love it, their customers are going to love it, but how do you really make the most of it?
• 19:26
  Sara Watson: So we've done things like social media giveaways or one that we have coming up right now with another brewery.
• 19:33
  Sara Watson: We're doing a punch card where if you go to both breweries and try the beer, you're entered into a raffle.
• 19:38
  Sara Watson: So instead of just throwing the beer on the menu, try to think about how you're really going to get to get more brand exposure from it.
• 19:48
  Sara Watson: So the social media giveaway really helps because then you're tapping into that other collaboration partners audience as well, introducing them to their brand your brand, if you don't if they didn't know it already and so that's been really helpful.
• 20:02
  Kary Shumway: That's great.
• 20:02
  Kary Shumway: So let's talk a little bit about staff training.
• 20:05
  Kary Shumway: This is in the top three to five challenges for breweries as well.
• 20:11
  Kary Shumway: It's, like you know, finding the right people, retaining them, training them.
• 20:15
  Kary Shumway: What's worked well for you guys when it comes to staff training, or even expanding it into your team culture.
• 20:23
  Sara Watson: Yeah.
• 20:23
  Sara Watson: So that's actually been a huge focus for us this year.
• 20:26
  Sara Watson: So good timing on that question.
• 20:28
  Sara Watson: We really kind of refocused, starting from our interview and hiring process, and have to give a big employee.
• 20:36
  Sara Watson: So starting with that interview process, making sure our questions are aligned with the job description, making sure that the expectations are very clear even from that first conversation.
• 20:59
  Sara Watson: So we've put a lot of energy into revamping how we bring on people as part of our team and I think that's really helped us identify the culture fits from the very beginning.
• 21:11
  Sara Watson: If it's not a culture fit, we know it right away, instead of waiting until you know someone's on board and already trained and then you're like, oh no, I'm not sure if this is actually going to work out.
• 21:20
  Sara Watson: So that's been a huge help.
• 21:22
  Sara Watson: So just really starting from the interview process and then revamping our training process as well.
• 21:28
  Sara Watson: So Steven has helped us with that no-transcript.
• 21:57
  Sara Watson: A huge, a huge game changer for us is revamping that entire process and then by the time people are up and trained, ready to go, we're not worried if they're a culture fit or not.
• 22:10
  Sara Watson: Another thing that we've had a lot of success with is just trying to keep the team involved creatively.
• 22:15
  Sara Watson: So you know, once they're on board and hired and trained, keeping them involved in a lot of the decisions.
• 22:22
  Sara Watson: So things like naming beers or weighing in on merch ideas.
• 22:26
  Sara Watson: I think that really kind of helps bring people into that process and you can take ownership of.
• 22:32
  Sara Watson: If you name the beer, I mean that's a really cool thing.
• 22:34
  Sara Watson: You named a beer that's up on the board.
• 22:36
  Sara Watson: Or we have a one of our bartenders is a tattoo artist, so he actually designed a really cool shirt based on some of his tattoo art that we have printed at our taproom right now.
• 22:47
  Sara Watson: We have printed in our taproom right now.
• 22:52
  Sara Watson: So kind of bringing people into that creative process has really helped really establish that culture and community within the crew.
• 22:57
  Kary Shumway: I love that.
• 22:58
  Kary Shumway: That's so cool.
• 22:58
  Kary Shumway: Yeah, I think people really want to make a difference.
• 23:00
  Kary Shumway: They want to be involved, and to give them that platform to do it is it's a great idea.
• 23:05
  Sara Watson: Yeah, it's been really awesome.
• 23:07
  Kary Shumway: So, as a marketing person, let's talk about maybe one marketing initiative or campaign that's made an impact, and this could be something recent or something that you've done.
• 23:19
  Kary Shumway: You know that worked particularly well at any given point in your journey here.
• 23:24
  Sara Watson: Yeah.
• 23:24
  Sara Watson: So one thing that I think has worked really well for us and full transparency still has a lot of room for development is our what we call the vacancy collective, which is our group of members.
• 23:37
  Sara Watson: So that's something that we have worked on over the last year.
• 23:42
  Sara Watson: This is our very first year implementing it.
• 23:44
  Sara Watson: It's something we launched on small business saturday last year, so we released just a limited number of spots available as part of our inaugural membership, and that exclusivity kind of made it.
• 23:58
  Sara Watson: People were kind of rushing into the tap room to make sure they got their spots, which was really cool.
• 24:01
  Sara Watson: Of course, with the membership we give perks and things like that.
• 24:08
  Sara Watson: But one thing that we've really learned is these are the people that have bought into our brand from day one.
• 24:13
  Sara Watson: They're people that want to be there, want to be part of that community.
• 24:16
  Sara Watson: So we've kind of viewed this group as a small group of brand ambassadors.
• 24:20
  Sara Watson: So we're giving them perks at the brewery they get early access to beers, they get a bigger pour with each pour, but they're also part of our community and there are brand ambassadors that are talking about our brand with their friends, their family, bringing new people in.
• 24:36
  Sara Watson: So that's been a big win for us this year is just kind of thinking about how we can use our customers almost as a marketing tool.
• 24:44
  Sara Watson: We want them talking about their experience when they come to vacancy and telling their friends so that their friends all want to come try out the new spot and then hopefully become a regular.
• 24:52
  Sara Watson: So, like I said, this is our first year so you know we've learned a lot.
• 24:57
  Sara Watson: There's lots of room for growth next year.
• 24:59
  Sara Watson: So I think you know, now that we've established this, we can really refine the program and figure out how to make it a revenue driver for us moving forward.
• 25:06
  Sara Watson: But I think just really kind of setting the groundwork for that has been a big win.
• 25:13
  Kary Shumway: I love that.
• 25:13
  Kary Shumway: So let's shift and talk about, like, how you balance innovation, you know, coming up with new beers and new beverages, new products, with the consistency of your core products.
• 25:26
  Kary Shumway: Like, how do you think about?
• 25:29
  Kary Shumway: That Is just, is it?
• 25:31
  Kary Shumway: Is it a discussion or is it?
• 25:32
  Sara Watson: yeah well, I'll tell you that's that's definitely been a balance over the years is, okay, do we want to stick with these core beers that you know people like, but we also know people like the novelty of a beer release.
• 25:42
  Sara Watson: So that is, I mean, that's a balance.
• 25:44
  Sara Watson: We're still learning.
• 25:44
  Sara Watson: Um, we, you know, we opened our tap room four and a half years ago with three beers on the menu and one of those beers has been a staple since we opened.
• 25:54
  Sara Watson: So we found here in Texas, like I said, it's hot, People love their lagers and luckily that's what we're good at.
• 26:02
  Sara Watson: So we have two.
• 26:03
  Sara Watson: We have a Pilsner and an American lager on our menu that are always there.
• 26:08
  Sara Watson: Those have become our flagship beers.
• 26:10
  Sara Watson: American lager on our menu that are always there.
• 26:12
  Sara Watson: Those have become our flagship beers.
• 26:17
  Sara Watson: And then last year we kind of did focus on having a couple more core beers that are always on their menu.
• 26:19
  Sara Watson: But one thing we're playing around with this year is sticking to the styles that we know we always want to have and just re and updating those recipes to make it a little bit different each time.
• 26:28
  Sara Watson: So that's been.
• 26:30
  Sara Watson: We're still experimenting with it and seeing how that works for us.
• 26:33
  Sara Watson: But instead of having the same hazy IPA on the menu every time people come in.
• 26:38
  Sara Watson: We're sticking with a similar profile but changing up some of those ingredients to make it slightly different and new for the customers.
• 26:46
  Sara Watson: So that's something we're playing around with this year.
• 26:48
  Sara Watson: So the three styles that we you know, we know we always want to have on our menu we always have a hoppy lager, we always have a West coast IPA and we always have a hazy um.
• 26:58
  Sara Watson: Instead of having those be the same beer each time, like we were doing last year, we're kind of just messing around with um rotating those, but it gives some sort of consistency and reliability for our customers.
• 27:07
  Sara Watson: They know we're always going to have a hoppy lager on the menu, but they get to try something new every time they come in.
• 27:12
  Sara Watson: So that's been something we're working with right now and I think it's been going well.
• 27:18
  Sara Watson: Of course we'll evaluate and see and iterate from there, but so far that's been going well.
• 27:25
  Kary Shumway: Yeah, I like that and that's pretty consistent with some of our past brewery spotlights that we've had with you know, I'm thinking in particular of Brian from Validation Ale, and they'll do it a little different in that they're constantly, I think there's maybe some no touch on the menus, but by and large it's customer driven, like they sell what sells and they'll have like here's our beer lineup but here's this challenger beer.
• 27:51
  Kary Shumway: So if you like this particular beer and you want it to stay on the menu, you better order it, because this interesting and it can knock off oh, I love that yeah, which is kind of cool.
• 28:01
  Kary Shumway: And then um, jake, from presidential brewing, um, who we're gonna chat with, um, coming up here in a few weeks.
• 28:09
  Kary Shumway: They do a lot like what you described.
• 28:12
  Kary Shumway: It's like you know, if there's I don't remember their exact lineup but say they have 10 beers, they're like these five have to be on because they're just people love them, they sell.
• 28:20
  Kary Shumway: We're going to, you know, get torched if we take some of these off.
• 28:22
  Sara Watson: Yeah, the other ones.
• 28:23
  Kary Shumway: we do want to have kind of new stuff and I just I bet that Czech Pilsner or whatever is my go-to.
• 28:35
  Kary Shumway: I'll be really bummed if that's not on the menu.
• 28:37
  Kary Shumway: So I think that's that's nice to be kind of thoughtful about what your customer wants.
• 28:42
  Sara Watson: Right, definitely.
• 28:43
  Sara Watson: And, like I said, brent, he has a background in lager brewing, so when we opened has a background in lager brewing, so when we opened we were very focused on lagers.
• 28:54
  Sara Watson: He had never made a hazy IPA before, he had never made a sour beer before, but we kept getting those requests.
• 28:58
  Sara Watson: So we definitely listened to the customer and he's learned to brew different styles and pushed himself out of his boundaries, which has been kind of fun to see.
• 29:08
  Sara Watson: And now some of those are some of our top room favorite beers, so it's kind of fun to see.
• 29:11
  Sara Watson: But and now some of those are some of our top room favorite beers, so it's kind of fun to see how the customers push him a little bit outside of his comfort zone.
• 29:18
  Kary Shumway: So, as a business owner, I'm sure you have faced a million challenges.
• 29:23
  Kary Shumway: Oh, yes, kind of think of a particular challenge that you faced and how you overcame it, because people want to hear this right, it's like that.
• 29:32
  Kary Shumway: You know, business is hard.
• 29:33
  Kary Shumway: Sometimes it feels like you're alone, and the fact is that you're not.
• 29:36
  Kary Shumway: We're all kind of struggling with the same set of problems.
• 29:39
  Kary Shumway: So what's maybe a challenge that you'd want to share, that you've recently, or even in, the past had to overcome.
• 29:46
  Sara Watson: Yeah well, I think you're right.
• 29:46
  Sara Watson: Every day in the small business world is a new challenge.
• 29:49
  Sara Watson: But one of the big things that we faced recently I know we talked about this in our work together is our lease renewal.
• 29:56
  Sara Watson: So that's been a big thing for us over the last year.
• 29:59
  Sara Watson: One thing, you know five years flies by.
• 30:03
  Sara Watson: We had an initial five-year lease and when you're signing and when you're a new business, it sounds like such a long time.
• 30:08
  Sara Watson: But you know, looking back, maybe a longer lease would have been more, given us some more stability over the years.
• 30:14
  Sara Watson: So that's something that we've definitely learned as a new business is a lot about that lease negotiation process and how time flies.
• 30:26
  Sara Watson: But that was a big challenge for us because at the same time we really wanted to, like I said, reinvest in our taproom experience.
• 30:33
  Sara Watson: So without that stability we didn't want to pour money into making these improvements in our taproom if we didn't know how our lease would shake out.
• 30:41
  Sara Watson: So kind of balancing those two things over the last year has been a big challenge.
• 30:46
  Sara Watson: We really want to move forward with the patio, we want to get new furniture, we want to make this a more comfortable experience for our customers, but without knowing what our future is in this space.
• 30:56
  Sara Watson: That made it really hard.
• 30:57
  Sara Watson: So we worked really hard to negotiate with our landlord, make sure that we had some stability over the next several years, knowing that we can feel comfortable making those improvements.
• 31:10
  Sara Watson: So one thing I did learn throughout that whole process was ask as many questions and talk to as many people as you can.
• 31:18
  Sara Watson: One thing in the negotiation process we talked to so many different brokers and real estate agents and even if you don't end up working together, I ended up taking little pieces of knowledge from each conversation that I had and it ended up being something I could end up using in our renegotiation.
• 31:37
  Sara Watson: So that was a big thing I learned is just ask a lot of questions, have the conversations.
• 31:43
  Sara Watson: It takes time, but you're really going to learn from it.
• 31:46
  Sara Watson: So we did eventually reach a conclusion and get that lease signed and you know we were able to move forward with some of our taproom improvements.
• 31:55
  Sara Watson: We still have some that we have on the books.
• 31:57
  Sara Watson: But that was a huge challenge because you know it's almost like you want to go full force forward but you're not really sure if it's the right time.
• 32:07
  Sara Watson: So figuring that out was a big thing for us over the last year.
• 32:12
  Kary Shumway: Yeah, yeah, that's a great, great topic for sure.
• 32:15
  Kary Shumway: I mean, everybody kind of deals with that unless you own the building.
• 32:18
  Kary Shumway: And you're right, you're trying to balance like that stability of I want to be here for a while with that.
• 32:25
  Kary Shumway: What if things don't work out?
• 32:27
  Kary Shumway: I need a parachute to kind of get out of this thing, and how do I?
• 32:30
  Sara Watson: write.
• 32:31
  Kary Shumway: What are my options, and so that was a really smart approach is talking to a lot of different people and getting different perspectives and ideas, so you could come out with a you know, an outcome that works for you out with a, you know, an outcome that works for you.
• 32:45
  Sara Watson: Right, and, I think, always knowing that you're your own advocate, not relying on other people.
• 32:48
  Sara Watson: I mean, of course, you're working with a broker and you're working with the lawyer, you know but knowing that you're the one that really, you know, has your interests at heart.
• 32:57
  Sara Watson: So, knowing that don't don't don't always rely on other people to do the work for you.
• 33:02
  Sara Watson: Make sure you're thinking of ways, being creative, asking the questions.
• 33:06
  Sara Watson: That was a learning experience for me.
• 33:12
  Kary Shumway: So now it's advice time.
• 33:13
  Kary Shumway: So if you were to give could be one piece of advice, could be multiple.
• 33:18
  Kary Shumway: Some advice to another brewery owner or manager that's out there listening to this that wants to have a financially sustainable company.
• 33:27
  Kary Shumway: What advice would you give them?
• 33:29
  Sara Watson: Well, I think the biggest thing I've learned over the last two years is finding that balance between doing it yourself and asking for help, so knowing how to play to your team's strengths and then being honest about where those gaps are.
• 33:45
  Sara Watson: So, like I said, we're a very lean team.
• 33:47
  Sara Watson: So my background is hospitality.
• 33:49
  Sara Watson: We have my husband's background in production, we have our operation manager and our taproom manager, but one great example is the business development side.
• 33:59
  Sara Watson: So none of us have specific experience in that background.
• 34:04
  Sara Watson: So, knowing when to bring on a consultant and ask for help, I think that's been a really big thing for us this year and you know learning experience for us all the time but really just knowing what you're good at and what you're not good at.
• 34:20
  Sara Watson: It's always good to try to do things yourself and get that learning experience but just really knowing when to ask for help and then when it's worth investing your time versus investing your money, and I think that's been a huge learning experience for us.
• 34:33
  Sara Watson: So the advice I would give is just being honest with yourself and your team about what your strengths are and then knowing what your strengths aren't and being able to kind of supplement that with people who really know what they're doing in their, in their specific fields.
• 34:47
  Kary Shumway: Yeah, I think that's a great great piece of advice for sure and there is lots of them out there, you know, depending on what area of expertise you're trying to trying to fill.
• 34:56
  Kary Shumway: But I think that's that's part of an evolving and maturing business too is to understand where you're going to need some assistance, and that that is definitely like the that growth how do you go from where you are to where you want to be?
• 35:10
  Kary Shumway: And it's it's got to be in building those skills and building the teams and the systems to kind of kind of get you that next level definitely, and and we're still finding that balance, but I think we've done a good job at working towards that.
• 35:25
  Kary Shumway: So this has been great.
• 35:26
  Kary Shumway: So I really appreciate your time, your experience and your expertise and let's talk maybe, as we kind of wrap up, tell us what you've got coming up at the brewery and specifically how people can find you.
• 35:41
  Kary Shumway: So somebody is listening and maybe they're going to plan a trip.
• 35:43
  Kary Shumway: Yeah, definitely, what's going on?
• 35:46
  Sara Watson: Yeah, we're in South Austin.
• 35:48
  Sara Watson: You can find us on the internet.
• 35:49
  Sara Watson: We have a website, vacancybrewingcom.
• 35:51
  Sara Watson: We are on social media at Vacancy Brewing.
• 35:54
  Sara Watson: We actually just started a TikTok, so we are exploring with that new app, so find us there if you're on TikTok.
• 36:01
  Sara Watson: But yeah, we have events all the time at our tap room.
• 36:05
  Sara Watson: It's one of the things that we do Love having events and hosting new things.
• 36:10
  Sara Watson: So we have karaoke every month, we have trivia every week, we do music, bingo, so there's always something fun happening at our tap room.
• 36:17
  Sara Watson: So look online on our website.
• 36:19
  Sara Watson: We have an events calendar.
• 36:21
  Sara Watson: There's always something new and exciting coming up.
• 36:24
  Sara Watson: So, or, if you just want to come by for a beer, come by anytime.
• 36:27
  Kary Shumway: That's awesome.
• 36:28
  Kary Shumway: Sarah, thanks so much again for the time and folks listening go visit Vacancy Brewing in Austin Texas.
• 36:34
  Sara Watson: Thank you, Keri.
• 36:36
  Kary Shumway: Thank you for listening to the Craft Brewery Financial Training Podcast, where we combine beer and numbers so that you can improve financial results in your brewery.
• 36:44
  Kary Shumway: For more resources, tools, guides and online courses, visit craftbreweryfinancialtrainingcom.
• 36:51
  Kary Shumway: And don't forget to sign up for the world-famous Craft Brewery Financial Training Newsletter.
• 36:56
  Kary Shumway: Until next time, get out there and improve financial results in your brewery today.