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Pete Hegseth's Weird Experiments on the Troops · Paging America

0:00
SPEAKER_02: We've all heard the stories of the earmarks to get deals done,
0:04
SPEAKER_02: a couple million here, a couple million there.
0:05
SPEAKER_02: And that's not great, right?
0:06
SPEAKER_02: We should all care, but $5 billion within a budget of the NIH?
0:10
SPEAKER_02: That's 10% of the budget?
0:11
SPEAKER_03: I got your waste, fraud, abuse right here, man.
0:14
SPEAKER_03: Jeez, we found it.
0:16
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, we found it.
0:21
SPEAKER_03: Hello, everybody.
0:22
SPEAKER_03: Welcome back to Paging America,
0:23
SPEAKER_03: where we explore the power and profit shaping American healthcare and your home base
0:27
SPEAKER_03: for news and viewpoints from people building the universal healthcare movement.
0:31
SPEAKER_03: I'm your host, Myles Baker, along with Dr.
0:33
SPEAKER_03: Rob Davidson.
0:34
SPEAKER_03: Dr.
0:34
SPEAKER_03: Rob, it is great to see you today.
0:35
SPEAKER_03: How's it going in West Michigan?
0:38
SPEAKER_02: It's going great.
0:39
SPEAKER_02: Finally got rid of the smoke for the time being.
0:42
SPEAKER_02: I look at the smoke map, apparently it's still out there.
0:44
SPEAKER_02: I don't know how you guys are doing there in Chicago.
0:45
SPEAKER_02: I hate talking about the weather and the smoke all the time.
0:48
SPEAKER_03: But man, that really dominated the last kind of week of a lot of our lives and our ability
0:52
SPEAKER_03: to be out in the world.
0:53
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
0:54
SPEAKER_03: We had a sick baby, so we were stuck in the house anyway.
0:57
SPEAKER_03: So it was like it was happening, but it was barely
1:00
SPEAKER_02: happening to us.
1:01
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
1:02
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
1:02
SPEAKER_03: It was okay.
1:04
SPEAKER_03: It's lovely here now.
1:05
SPEAKER_03: It's a lovely day in Chicago.
1:06
SPEAKER_03: If you haven't been to Chicago in the summer,
1:09
SPEAKER_03: listeners,
1:10
SPEAKER_03: if you haven't been to Chicago in the summer recently,
1:12
SPEAKER_03: treat yourself and get up here because it's awesome.
1:14
SPEAKER_02: Such a great big city where you can just go right over to the beach if you have
1:18
SPEAKER_02: a few minutes and enjoy.
1:19
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's amazing.
1:20
SPEAKER_03: It's the very best.
1:22
SPEAKER_03: In the meat and potatoes of the show, we have a ton to cover.
1:25
SPEAKER_03: We're going to do a quick update on the cyclospora outbreak,
1:28
SPEAKER_03: take a look at Senator Roger Marshall's strange comments justifying the war.
1:34
SPEAKER_03: We have more RFK news, so a packed agenda for you all.
1:37
SPEAKER_02: Why don't we start with explosive diarrhea?
1:44
SPEAKER_02: Since the internet, I never knew explosive diarrhea was such clickbait.
1:48
SPEAKER_02: It is so clickable.
1:51
SPEAKER_02: It's a big deal in people's lives.
1:53
SPEAKER_02: I think we've got to talk about it.
1:54
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, people don't want to get stuck in the bathroom.
1:57
SPEAKER_03: That's right.
1:57
SPEAKER_03: So the cyclospora outbreak continues.
2:00
SPEAKER_03: What started as a regional outbreak focused primarily in Michigan has now spread to
2:04
SPEAKER_03: the rest of the country.
2:05
SPEAKER_03: As of this morning, the Michigan Department of Health and Human Services reported 7,171 cases
2:11
SPEAKER_02: With over 200 people hospitalized.
2:13
SPEAKER_03: I guess I didn't realize that was happening.
2:15
SPEAKER_03: Over 200 hospitalizations.
2:16
SPEAKER_02: The CDC's interactive map
2:18
SPEAKER_03: shows cases in much of the country.
2:20
SPEAKER_03: Although we know, at least in the case of Michigan, there's a lag.
2:22
SPEAKER_03: So there may be a lag in the map as well.
2:25
SPEAKER_03: A positive test of shredded iceberg lettuce from a Taylor Farms facility
2:29
SPEAKER_03: in central Mexico later turned out to be a mistake.
2:32
SPEAKER_03: So the source of the outbreak remains unknown.
2:34
SPEAKER_03: However, that hasn't stopped RFK Jr. from saying that the outbreak is under control.
2:38
SPEAKER_03: That's a quote, under control.
2:40
SPEAKER_03: And they remained focused on
2:41
SPEAKER_03: the Mexican Taylor Farms facility despite Mexico's health minister saying there is
2:46
SPEAKER_03: no evidence that it's actually the source.
2:49
SPEAKER_03: Identifying the source is a challenge because symptoms may not develop for up to two weeks.
2:53
SPEAKER_03: Cyclospora is resistant to chlorine and difficult to remove from food.
2:57
SPEAKER_03: It's worth noting the CDC's reporting of the number of cases is vastly smaller
3:01
SPEAKER_03: than what's being reported from various states,
3:03
SPEAKER_03: like Michigan and Ohio,
3:05
SPEAKER_03: whose local health departments are tracking this really vigorously and on time.
3:09
SPEAKER_03: And then last year, RFK Jr.
3:10
SPEAKER_03: suspended mandatory tracking of the parasite by various government agencies
3:14
SPEAKER_03: and 10 state health departments.
3:16
SPEAKER_03: Senator John Ossoff slammed Kennedy in a letter saying,
3:20
SPEAKER_03: A cyclospiralysis outbreak sweeps the nation.
3:22
SPEAKER_03: Your foolish and self-indulgent demolition
3:24
SPEAKER_03: of critical public health programs puts Americans at risk.
3:28
SPEAKER_03: Rob, you have been on a lot of shows talking about the cause of this.
3:33
SPEAKER_03: What's the latest?
3:34
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I think the most frustrating thing is that they also shut down the Division
3:39
SPEAKER_02: of Parasitic Diseases and Malaria at the CDC last year as a part of cutting waste,
3:44
SPEAKER_02: fraud, and abuse.
3:45
SPEAKER_02: This is their tagline.
3:47
SPEAKER_02: Anytime they're going to cut programs that they They just don't think matter.
3:52
SPEAKER_02: And I've said it.
3:53
SPEAKER_02: I've said it on a bunch of shows.
3:54
SPEAKER_02: I've said it on here before.
3:55
SPEAKER_02: The problem with the understanding of public health by laypeople,
4:00
SPEAKER_02: RFK Jr.,
4:01
SPEAKER_02: a layperson himself running the agency,
4:03
SPEAKER_02: is that when public health is working, you don't know it.
4:07
SPEAKER_02: You simply go to the store and buy your groceries and eat your food and don't end up
4:11
SPEAKER_02: on the toilet for two weeks.
4:13
SPEAKER_02: You don't know that's not happening because it never happened,
4:15
SPEAKER_02: but it didn't happen in a lot of cases because these agencies are actually working
4:20
SPEAKER_02: behind the scenes to keep us safe.
4:22
SPEAKER_02: I just saw something recently,
4:24
SPEAKER_02: I think garlic powder from some various sources was pulled because of E.
4:27
SPEAKER_02: coli, We don't see a massive outbreak of garlic, right?
4:30
SPEAKER_02: This is public health working, right?
4:32
SPEAKER_02: We see recalls that come,
4:35
SPEAKER_02: certain food products that come across,
4:38
SPEAKER_02: and it's barely a blip as far as the illness itself.
4:42
SPEAKER_02: It's because it was caught in time.
4:44
SPEAKER_02: The problem is they're asleep at the wheel.
4:47
SPEAKER_02: The states are doing Yeah.
5:11
SPEAKER_02: I don't know.
5:11
SPEAKER_02: You just can't say enough.
5:13
SPEAKER_02: I mean,
5:13
SPEAKER_02: it's just sort of like check every little box here about RFK and his leadership
5:19
SPEAKER_02: and his time at the helm of HHS.
5:21
SPEAKER_02: And they just absolutely abandoned the principles that we all just sort of have come
5:25
SPEAKER_02: to expect from what used to be like the jewel of the federal system
5:32
SPEAKER_02: and really looked to by folks throughout the world,
5:35
SPEAKER_02: the CDC, as just the gold standard.
5:38
SPEAKER_02: We're just not there anymore.
5:39
SPEAKER_03: Topic adjacent.
5:41
SPEAKER_03: For those of us who don't have a medical background,
5:43
SPEAKER_03: if the cyclospora,
5:44
SPEAKER_03: if it's on food,
5:46
SPEAKER_03: it goes into a person,
5:47
SPEAKER_03: it can't transfer, does it transfer person to person, or is it just...
5:49
SPEAKER_02: It does not.
5:50
SPEAKER_02: So, you excrete it, but you excrete it as like a cyst that is not infected.
5:55
SPEAKER_02: The thing that happens and why lettuce is such a culprit is if it gets in the water
5:59
SPEAKER_02: and then it gets on the produce,
6:01
SPEAKER_02: lettuce has lots of little crevices, little nooks and crannies.
6:03
SPEAKER_02: Raspberries have implicated.
6:04
SPEAKER_02: Also, if you think about like the surface of a raspberry, things can get trapped in there.
6:08
SPEAKER_02: And then if the right condition Conditions exist.
6:10
SPEAKER_02: Moist and warm in enough time.
6:12
SPEAKER_02: One to two weeks, those cysts then become the infective organism.
6:16
SPEAKER_02: Boom, then you get sick.
6:18
SPEAKER_02: So yeah, I mean, you're spreading it around, but you're not spreading it around.
6:20
SPEAKER_02: And hopefully what you're spreading around doesn't get back on into the process.
6:24
SPEAKER_02: Produce or else that's a real problem.
6:28
SPEAKER_02: But again, it's making it hard to trace, hard to control.
6:32
SPEAKER_02: This whole Taylor Farms thing,
6:34
SPEAKER_02: I hate the fact that I have had to become a conspiracy theorist
6:37
SPEAKER_02: about every damn thing this government does and says.
6:40
SPEAKER_02: Because they have shown us that they will lie about everything.
6:43
SPEAKER_02: Everything.
6:44
SPEAKER_02: And so they had this positive test.
6:47
SPEAKER_02: And apparently the head of Taylor Farms went to the White House.
6:50
SPEAKER_02: This company gave a million bucks to Trump Super PAC, you know, MAGA Inc. Super PAC last year.
6:55
SPEAKER_02: But they went to the White House.
6:56
SPEAKER_02: And the day after they went to the White House, oh, no, that was a false positive.
6:59
SPEAKER_02: Right.
7:00
SPEAKER_02: Maybe it was.
7:00
SPEAKER_02: But it's just so frustrating that the political people are so bad.
7:05
SPEAKER_02: Dominant at these agencies that I don't know.
7:08
SPEAKER_02: I don't know.
7:09
SPEAKER_02: They're still saying the epidemiologic data points to that as a likely source.
7:13
SPEAKER_02: But like, are they willing to like completely kneecap the response to please someone?
7:18
SPEAKER_02: It would not be the craziest thing we saw come out of this administration if
7:22
SPEAKER_02: that turns out to be true.
7:23
SPEAKER_03: Rob,
7:24
SPEAKER_03: are you saying that people are having explosive diarrhea possibly so they could pay
7:30
SPEAKER_03: for the ballroom?
7:30
SPEAKER_03: Is that?
7:32
SPEAKER_03: Is that?
7:33
SPEAKER_02: They will do anything to us to pay for the effing ballroom.
7:37
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
7:37
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
7:38
SPEAKER_02: Just too much.
7:39
SPEAKER_02: Too much.
7:39
SPEAKER_03: That's too bad.
7:40
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
7:41
SPEAKER_03: No, I don't trust it.
7:42
SPEAKER_03: I mean, I don't even think that's a conspiracy.
7:44
SPEAKER_03: They've given Trump a million dollars,
7:46
SPEAKER_03: and then they're like, oh, actually, their lettuce is fine.
7:50
SPEAKER_03: That's the cleanest lettuce we ever saw in our life.
7:52
SPEAKER_03: It's the only lettuce we should eat.
7:55
SPEAKER_03: We should throw out all the rest of that lettuce.
7:57
SPEAKER_03: It makes total sense.
7:58
SPEAKER_03: Also, I've always thought raspberries were dirty little fruits when I was eating them.
8:03
SPEAKER_03: I was like, you know what?
8:04
SPEAKER_03: These are dirty fruits, and I'm going to eat them anyway because I love raspberries.
8:06
SPEAKER_03: So tasty.
8:07
SPEAKER_03: Anyway, they're good for you, too.
8:09
SPEAKER_03: All right, moving on.
8:11
SPEAKER_03: The senator from Kansas, who is also an OBGYN, a medical doctor, has a very strange quote.
8:16
SPEAKER_03: He said, the doctor in me, as a way to justify his support for the war in Iran.
8:22
SPEAKER_03: Let's roll that clip.
8:23
SPEAKER_00: But I think that the benefits,
8:25
SPEAKER_00: the doctrine, he says, the benefits of us being there outweigh the risk.
8:29
SPEAKER_03: What?
8:30
SPEAKER_03: I mean, I think doctors get away with saying more.
8:35
SPEAKER_03: You know, Dr.
8:36
SPEAKER_03: Oz traded on the fact that he was a doctor for all manner of strange things
8:41
SPEAKER_03: for his entire career.
8:42
SPEAKER_03: But using it to justify a war of choice in Iran, that's a little bit of a bridge too far, right?
8:51
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, he's trying to be cutesy with three service members dying last weekend,
8:55
SPEAKER_02: trying to be cutesy with a billion dollars a day being spent on this war.
8:59
SPEAKER_02: He's being cutesy because as doctors,
9:01
SPEAKER_02: as scientists,
9:02
SPEAKER_02: we think of risk-benefit analyses of all He's sort of saying,
9:05
SPEAKER_02: well, I have this skill set.
9:06
SPEAKER_02: I'm going to apply that to this absolute debacle that we're perpetrating on
9:09
SPEAKER_02: the world through the war in Iran.
9:11
SPEAKER_02: It just doesn't make any sense.
9:13
SPEAKER_02: He just looks like an idiot when he says it.
9:32
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I guess you can use the doctor piece as a force for good,
9:35
SPEAKER_02: and in his case, as a force for evil.
9:37
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
9:38
SPEAKER_03: I just looked it up, Rob, as you were mentioning the dollar amount.
9:42
SPEAKER_03: I always go to the
9:45
SPEAKER_03: not wanting the violence, but the dollar amount's enormous, too.
9:47
SPEAKER_03: And that's a tradeoff, right?
9:49
SPEAKER_03: Those dollars could be spent in another way.
9:52
SPEAKER_03: Kansas, the place where this senator is from,
9:54
SPEAKER_03: has more rural hospitals at risk of closure than any other state in the union.
9:57
SPEAKER_03: And did he vote to cut a trillion from Medicaid?
9:59
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
10:02
SPEAKER_02: You bet he did.
10:04
SPEAKER_03: And so when he's saying that it's worth it,
10:08
SPEAKER_03: that the tradeoffs are worth it,
10:09
SPEAKER_03: presumably he's saying that his home state hospital's closing is worth it.
10:14
SPEAKER_03: And I bet a lot of people in Kansas don't think that's worth it.
10:18
SPEAKER_03: I bet the vast majority of people in Kansas don't think that's worth it.
10:20
SPEAKER_02: Right.
10:21
SPEAKER_02: The real risks are service members dying.
10:22
SPEAKER_02: The real risks are civilians dying in there.
10:24
SPEAKER_02: The real risks are higher energy costs.
10:27
SPEAKER_02: And then the sort of the lost opportunity cost
10:32
SPEAKER_02: of waging this war is things like we can't afford Medicaid for people in Kansas.
10:37
SPEAKER_02: We can't afford to get hospitals open because the priorities of this administration
10:42
SPEAKER_02: and apparently of Dr.
10:43
SPEAKER_02: Senator Marshall are to drop bombs and not give people health care.
10:46
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
10:47
SPEAKER_03: Senator Roger Marshall, it's not worth it.
10:49
SPEAKER_03: You're wrong.
10:49
SPEAKER_02: Not worth it.
10:50
SPEAKER_02: We're saying you're wrong.
10:51
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
10:51
SPEAKER_02: Bad analysis.
10:53
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, bad analysis.
10:54
SPEAKER_03: Bad analysis for Kansas, specifically.
10:56
SPEAKER_03: All right.
10:57
SPEAKER_03: RFK Jr. wanted to spend $5 billion tax dollars to prove that vaccines cause autism.
11:03
SPEAKER_03: Early this year, Kennedy went to his director of the NIH with a costly proposal.
11:08
SPEAKER_03: According to two officials familiar with the request,
11:10
SPEAKER_03: the research agency should spend $5 billion With a B,
11:14
SPEAKER_03: studying the link between vaccines and autism.
11:16
SPEAKER_03: That would have dedicated more than a tenth of the NIH's annual budget
11:20
SPEAKER_03: to investigating a hypothesis already refuted by scientists worldwide,
11:24
SPEAKER_03: everywhere, every time they do it.
11:29
SPEAKER_03: Kennedy ultimately dropped the plan,
11:31
SPEAKER_03: which would likely have required congressional approval,
11:34
SPEAKER_03: after the NIH director convinced him that the agency had dedicated enough resources
11:38
SPEAKER_03: to researching autism's causes.
11:39
SPEAKER_03: Some of the other suggestions included removing the polio vaccine from
11:43
SPEAKER_03: the childhood vaccine schedule were discarded after pushback
11:46
SPEAKER_03: from White House officials to Evil,
11:49
SPEAKER_03: evil Tony Fabrizio reading the poll and saying, don't do that.
11:53
SPEAKER_03: That's what I guess was happening.
11:56
SPEAKER_03: So that's the White House pollster if people haven't listened before
12:00
SPEAKER_03: and we don't like it on this show.
12:02
SPEAKER_03: Anyway, that's absolute madness.
12:05
SPEAKER_03: When they say Bobby Kennedy is bursting with madness, this is like example A.
12:11
SPEAKER_03: It's a crazy proposal and it's good that it's reaching the public, but...
12:18
SPEAKER_03: Didn't reach the public at the time, which is a little frustrating.
12:22
SPEAKER_03: I know that like Jay Bhattacharya.
12:25
SPEAKER_03: Bhattacharya, yeah.
12:26
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, that he was more of like a neutral actor, but like,
12:29
SPEAKER_02: I don't know.
12:30
SPEAKER_03: I was kind of not getting this out in the public.
12:33
SPEAKER_03: Seems like it was not particularly neutral.
12:35
SPEAKER_03: Because this to me seems like it's disqualifying for HHS secretary.
12:38
SPEAKER_03: What do you think, Rob?
12:40
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I mean, add it to the list, right?
12:42
SPEAKER_02: And I guess the glass half full perspective is, hey, way to go, Dr. Bhattacharya.
12:47
SPEAKER_02: Like you actually said to this guy, like someone with a spine, right?
12:52
SPEAKER_02: Someone willing to say that I don't know how their conversation went.
12:57
SPEAKER_02: I hope there was a little bit of, that sounds crazy.
12:59
SPEAKER_02: Don't you think that sounds crazy?
13:00
SPEAKER_02: I mean, that's how I would have said it.
13:02
SPEAKER_02: I imagine they tiptoe around it a bit with RFK's ego in the mix.
13:05
SPEAKER_02: But it is crazy.
13:10
SPEAKER_02: At the same time, they're cutting NIH funding.
13:14
SPEAKER_02: They're cutting funding for mRNA research
13:16
SPEAKER_02: because he just decided there was something bad about mRNA research
13:20
SPEAKER_02: because that's how we got the COVID vaccine.
13:22
SPEAKER_02: And obviously, he's got it out for the COVID vaccine, RFK Jr.
13:26
SPEAKER_02: And so at the same time those cuts were happening,
13:29
SPEAKER_02: his desire was to marshal the very scant resources of the NIH,
13:34
SPEAKER_02: whatever was left over,
13:35
SPEAKER_02: the scraps they left over, and put it into something that is decided, right?
13:41
SPEAKER_02: It is done.
13:42
SPEAKER_02: Science is always evolving.
13:43
SPEAKER_02: It's always moving.
13:44
SPEAKER_02: We should always be looking for more answers.
13:45
SPEAKER_02: But there are some things we have the answer to, right?
13:49
SPEAKER_02: We know.
13:49
SPEAKER_02: We know you shouldn't smoke because it causes lung cancer,
13:51
SPEAKER_02: it causes heart disease, it causes smoking.
13:53
SPEAKER_02: We don't have to do studies on smoking causing heart disease and stroke.
13:57
SPEAKER_02: It's cancer, right?
13:59
SPEAKER_02: We don't have to do studies on this anymore, Bobby.
14:01
SPEAKER_02: We're good.
14:02
SPEAKER_02: We got the information.
14:03
SPEAKER_02: Let's move on.
14:03
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, that's too bad.
14:04
SPEAKER_03: Anyway, that's like another.
14:06
SPEAKER_03: I think one of the under.
14:08
SPEAKER_03: There's so many things to talk about with the Trump administration that are a bummer.
14:11
SPEAKER_03: And it's so hard to keep track of all of it because it's like it's goofiness
14:14
SPEAKER_03: and all these different directions.
14:15
SPEAKER_03: But these enormous sums of money.
14:18
SPEAKER_03: I mean, at least this one was stock.
14:20
SPEAKER_03: These enormous sums of money being repurposed for specialty projects and side quests
14:28
SPEAKER_03: and the weird and strange ideologies of the personalities at the top.
14:33
SPEAKER_03: From Iran,
14:34
SPEAKER_03: a war of choice in Iran,
14:36
SPEAKER_03: to Bobby Kennedy's strange redirection of the HHS towards coalition management
14:41
SPEAKER_03: or trying to find the cause of autism in vaccines.
14:46
SPEAKER_03: It's so much repurposing of the government from the normal to the strange that it's depressing.
14:54
SPEAKER_02: And it's massive amounts of money, right?
14:57
SPEAKER_02: Massive amounts of money.
14:58
SPEAKER_02: Like we've all heard the stories of the earmarks to get deals done,
15:03
SPEAKER_02: a couple million here,
15:04
SPEAKER_02: a couple million there for like a train museum somewhere in Kansas.
15:07
SPEAKER_02: I don't know.
15:08
SPEAKER_02: Like, I don't know.
15:09
SPEAKER_02: I made that one up.
15:10
SPEAKER_02: Maybe.
15:10
SPEAKER_02: I don't know.
15:10
SPEAKER_02: Maybe it's out there.
15:12
SPEAKER_02: And that's not great.
15:13
SPEAKER_02: We should all care about a couple million here, a couple million there.
15:16
SPEAKER_02: But five billion within a budget of the NIH,
15:19
SPEAKER_02: that's 10% of the budget that they're gutting
15:21
SPEAKER_03: otherwise?
15:24
SPEAKER_03: I got your waste, fraud, and abuse right here, man.
15:27
SPEAKER_03: We found it.
15:28
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, we found it.
15:30
SPEAKER_02: I mean, we certainly got the fraud in the entire Trump crime syndicate,
15:34
SPEAKER_02: but like the waste and the abuse, for sure.
15:36
SPEAKER_02: Like, this is a guy running the agency.
15:38
SPEAKER_02: And again, thankfully, Dr. Bhattacharya said,
15:41
SPEAKER_03: yeah, maybe let's
15:42
SPEAKER_02: pass on this one.
15:43
SPEAKER_03: And that went through.
15:44
SPEAKER_03: I'll go easy on Jay.
15:46
SPEAKER_03: I'll go easy on Jay.
15:47
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, no, we'll go.
15:47
SPEAKER_02: He's an ally.
15:48
SPEAKER_02: Big tent, Miles, big tent.
15:50
SPEAKER_02: Big tent.
15:50
SPEAKER_03: All right.
15:52
SPEAKER_03: Okay.
15:53
SPEAKER_03: Next up, HHS Research Agency ends funding for a significant share of its health studies.
15:59
SPEAKER_03: So this is the other side of the coin.
16:01
SPEAKER_03: This is reporting by Roll Call.
16:03
SPEAKER_03: The Trump administration terminated dozens of health research grants this week,
16:06
SPEAKER_03: telling grantees it is shifting priorities to issues like the over-medication
16:11
SPEAKER_03: of children.
16:12
SPEAKER_03: And autism, according to a prominent research organization.
16:15
SPEAKER_03: The cuts hit projects at the Agency for Healthcare Research and Quality.
16:19
SPEAKER_03: A significant share of the agency's portfolio have been canceled.
16:23
SPEAKER_03: Tens of millions of dollars have already been invested in these projects,
16:26
SPEAKER_03: said Aaron E. Carroll, president and CEO of Academy Health.
16:29
SPEAKER_03: People have been hired.
16:31
SPEAKER_03: Patients have been recruited.
16:32
SPEAKER_03: Lots of work going on, and all of it is now wasted.
16:35
SPEAKER_03: Many of the grants they canceled fall into categories,
16:38
SPEAKER_03: they say,
16:38
SPEAKER_03: We are prioritizing patient safety,
16:41
SPEAKER_03: preventing antibiotic resistance,
16:43
SPEAKER_03: telehealth,
16:44
SPEAKER_03: use of digital health tools to improve health,
16:46
SPEAKER_03: long COVID,
16:47
SPEAKER_03: artificial intelligence,
16:49
SPEAKER_03: nutrition,
16:49
SPEAKER_03: promoting research focused on the scientifically valid measurable health outcomes,
16:53
SPEAKER_03: and solution-oriented approaches to health disparities research.
16:57
SPEAKER_03: All seem like pretty important stuff down the line.
17:01
SPEAKER_03: Really hard to see what you don't want getting researched in that big,
17:05
SPEAKER_03: long list of things they just ask.
17:07
SPEAKER_02: I mean, the charge of the HRQ is to help figure out how best to deliver
17:10
SPEAKER_02: the actual healthcare to people, right?
17:12
SPEAKER_02: And that's a big part.
17:14
SPEAKER_02: Cost is a big thing.
17:14
SPEAKER_02: Insurance is a big piece.
17:15
SPEAKER_02: But how to get the care to the people who need it?
17:18
SPEAKER_02: Things like telehealth and places that I've worked my whole career,
17:21
SPEAKER_02: like mental Social health care is massive amount of that is done via telehealth
17:25
SPEAKER_02: because you can't find psychiatrists or behavioral health specialists to go
17:29
SPEAKER_02: to little small towns everywhere.
17:30
SPEAKER_02: Right.
17:31
SPEAKER_02: And a follow up from having a heart attack at the big, big tertiary care hospital.
17:35
SPEAKER_02: A lot of that's happening via telehealth and to know how we can deliver the care.
17:40
SPEAKER_02: It's really important, right?
17:42
SPEAKER_02: Both from a patient care standpoint,
17:44
SPEAKER_02: but from an efficiency standpoint, how the dollars are spent.
17:46
SPEAKER_02: I mean, it's all critically important.
17:48
SPEAKER_02: And they're moving in, like you said, what, again, about autism?
17:50
SPEAKER_02: I mean, this seems to be connected somehow to the last story of the five billion.
17:54
SPEAKER_02: Like, well, it's just another way to move money.
17:55
SPEAKER_02: The other thing about this is just it's kind of like the canceling of
17:58
SPEAKER_02: the wind projects that are that are like nearly completed.
18:02
SPEAKER_02: Like they've already invested the money.
18:03
SPEAKER_02: They've already hired people.
18:04
SPEAKER_02: They already spent it.
18:06
SPEAKER_02: And they're going to say, oh, we're going to pull that.
18:07
SPEAKER_02: And like what a waste.
18:09
SPEAKER_02: All of those resources now to have no outcomes.
18:11
SPEAKER_02: They have no benefit derived from the money that was spent.
18:14
SPEAKER_02: Right.
18:14
SPEAKER_02: That's right.
18:15
SPEAKER_03: I just want to just a point point of privilege on this one.
18:17
SPEAKER_03: If there are any Maha listeners.
18:19
SPEAKER_03: That clicked on this link and somehow made it to like minute 15 of the podcast
18:25
SPEAKER_03: without turning off.
18:27
SPEAKER_03: I just want to draw your attention to that.
18:29
SPEAKER_03: They just cut nutrition programs.
18:32
SPEAKER_03: They're cutting nutrition research.
18:34
SPEAKER_03: So if you're interested in making America healthy again,
18:37
SPEAKER_03: particularly the food side of the coalition, you just got fucked.
18:41
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
18:42
SPEAKER_02: Amen.
18:43
SPEAKER_02: Amen.
18:43
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
18:47
SPEAKER_03: Uh, this one is, this is the weirdest one.
18:49
SPEAKER_03: Department of War Secretary Pete Hegseth announced a new policy
18:54
SPEAKER_03: to test troops' testosterone levels.
18:56
SPEAKER_03: In an announcement made on X,
18:58
SPEAKER_03: Hegseth said that members of the military aged 30
19:01
SPEAKER_03: and older will have their testosterone levels tested annually as part
19:04
SPEAKER_03: of their periodic health assessment.
19:07
SPEAKER_03: Service members younger than 30 can voluntarily get their testosterone levels tested as well.
19:12
SPEAKER_03: If the medical team recommends treatment for a service member,
19:15
SPEAKER_03: it would be that individual's decision whether
19:17
SPEAKER_03: to receive testosterone replacement theory.
19:20
SPEAKER_03: But we're going to, sorry, we're going to have to listen to this guy's voice.
19:22
SPEAKER_03: If you haven't listened to his voice a lot, you're going to find it alarmingly annoying.
19:26
SPEAKER_03: It's really unpleasant.
19:28
SPEAKER_03: But we do have to see Pete Hegseth's very strange announcement of this.
19:32
SPEAKER_03: We'll go to that now.
19:33
SPEAKER_01: At the Department of War, we have the most elite warriors on the face of the earth.
19:38
SPEAKER_01: Every single day,
19:39
SPEAKER_01: you are pushed to your absolute physical and mental limits to master the profession
19:45
SPEAKER_01: of arms.
19:46
SPEAKER_01: We demand your all and you give it.
19:49
SPEAKER_01: But while we invest heavily in our weapon systems,
19:52
SPEAKER_01: platforms and gear,
19:54
SPEAKER_01: our most decisive tactical advantage will always be the individual warfighter.
20:00
SPEAKER_01: We have a sacred duty to maintain that advantage,
20:02
SPEAKER_01: which is why we must constantly look for new ways
20:05
SPEAKER_01: to optimize your performance Your resilience and your long-term health.
20:11
SPEAKER_01: And to meet that commitment today,
20:13
SPEAKER_01: I'm authorizing a new screening program for testosterone deficiency.
20:19
SPEAKER_01: As we know, the modern battlefield is brutal and unrelenting.
20:23
SPEAKER_01: It requires and demands maximum psychological and mental readiness.
20:28
SPEAKER_01: And by addressing these health markers early,
20:31
SPEAKER_01: we're keeping you on the leading edge of lethality and giving you the same level
20:35
SPEAKER_01: of support That you give this nation the absolute best.
20:40
SPEAKER_01: Godspeed, keep going, and God bless.
20:43
SPEAKER_03: So, strange.
20:45
SPEAKER_03: Just... testosterone obsession aside, strange.
20:49
SPEAKER_02: Shouldn't be in
20:50
SPEAKER_02: charge of the Pentagon.
20:51
SPEAKER_03: Anyway, this seems to be part of an ongoing obsession in the Trump administration
20:54
SPEAKER_03: with male virility.
20:56
SPEAKER_03: Recall that RFK Jr. has his own obsession with sperm counts.
20:59
SPEAKER_03: And he said without proof that male sperm counts,
21:01
SPEAKER_03: I think, in this country are down 50% for teenage males.
21:04
SPEAKER_03: I read the other day that teenage males today have less sperm than
21:07
SPEAKER_03: the average 65-year-old American man.
21:09
SPEAKER_03: That's not true.
21:10
SPEAKER_03: It's just a strange thing.
21:12
SPEAKER_02: How does he know?
21:13
SPEAKER_02: Why is he so obsessed with the sperm of teenage boys?
21:17
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's strange.
21:18
SPEAKER_03: But he also believes we're seeing an explosion in infertility,
21:22
SPEAKER_03: that there's a fertility crisis involving falling sperm counts in teens,
21:26
SPEAKER_03: and there's an existential crisis for our country.
21:30
SPEAKER_03: And then the other side of this is the Kid Rock videos.
21:34
SPEAKER_03: There's this enormous obsession with masculinity that's actually- I'm sorry.
21:40
SPEAKER_02: Watching Kid Rock in jeans and no shirt working out did
21:48
SPEAKER_02: Not to me, man.
21:50
SPEAKER_02: To each
21:51
SPEAKER_03: his own.
21:51
SPEAKER_03: A version of.
21:52
SPEAKER_03: This is different than just being weird in your own house.
21:57
SPEAKER_03: Obviously, Kennedy's using the bully pulpit, which is bad enough.
22:02
SPEAKER_03: But this is essentially instituting mass surveillance policy inside of
22:07
SPEAKER_03: the US military and is unnecessary treatment and surveillance of
22:12
SPEAKER_03: The armed services is putting a lot of people as part of a project
22:20
SPEAKER_03: that they're not necessarily signing up for.
22:22
SPEAKER_03: And I think a lot of people say isn't necessary.
22:25
SPEAKER_03: So medical experts say excess rationale for the directive isn't backed by science,
22:29
SPEAKER_03: warning of overdiagnosis as well as side effects such as heart problems
22:33
SPEAKER_03: and infertility.
22:34
SPEAKER_03: Coming amid the broader embrace of testosterone as a hormone
22:37
SPEAKER_03: among White House officials,
22:38
SPEAKER_03: the move plays into Hegs' focus on appearances and masculinity,
22:41
SPEAKER_03: which one Democrat said This week borders on homoeroticism.
22:46
SPEAKER_03: So obviously this is getting this very mature conversation we're having.
22:53
SPEAKER_03: For Reuters,
22:54
SPEAKER_03: last thing,
22:54
SPEAKER_03: the American Urological Association and
22:56
SPEAKER_03: the Endocrine Society advise testosterone supplementation only for patients
23:00
SPEAKER_03: with confirmed testosterone deficiency and symptoms such as reduced libido,
23:04
SPEAKER_03: erectile dysfunction, fatigue, and decreased muscle mass and low bone density.
23:09
SPEAKER_03: Giving testosterone without medical symptoms leads to overtreatment.
23:12
SPEAKER_03: McVary said of the AUA, which can have its own adverse consequences.
23:18
SPEAKER_02: I mean, and that last piece is really important.
23:20
SPEAKER_02: Like,
23:20
SPEAKER_02: just treating people without symptoms simply based on a number is not recommended,
23:25
SPEAKER_02: doesn't make sense, and has real potential harms, right?
23:30
SPEAKER_02: Chief among them,
23:31
SPEAKER_02: you know,
23:31
SPEAKER_02: in the short term and in some cases rarely,
23:34
SPEAKER_02: but in some cases in the long term, right?
23:35
SPEAKER_02: If we're worried about populating the earth and the pronatalist movement
23:38
SPEAKER_02: within this administration, boy,
23:40
SPEAKER_02: this seems like taking a bunch of 30-year-old and up in the military
23:46
SPEAKER_02: and doing this seems kind of counterproductive to that goal.
23:49
SPEAKER_03: Well, even 30-year-olds are going to seem like they're going to be able to opt in.
23:52
SPEAKER_03: Obviously, they got to be able to
23:53
SPEAKER_02: opt in.
23:54
SPEAKER_02: And requiring this, like, I am all for healthcare for all.
23:57
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
23:58
SPEAKER_02: Every person who feels like they have symptoms that may be related
24:01
SPEAKER_02: to low testosterone, yes,
24:03
SPEAKER_03: that should be paid for.
24:04
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
24:05
SPEAKER_02: In the military, outside the military, if you have symptoms, you go to your doctor.
24:08
SPEAKER_02: We believe in universal healthcare,
24:10
SPEAKER_02: including people in the military,
24:11
SPEAKER_02: including for symptoms related to low testosterone.
24:14
SPEAKER_02: But mass screening of asymptomatic people simply based on their age
24:18
SPEAKER_02: because you think giving them the shot is going to make them more lethal?
24:21
SPEAKER_02: There's no basis.
24:22
SPEAKER_02: And is there basis that this will actually make them better soldiers, right?
24:26
SPEAKER_02: The vast majority of warfare now is with drones using computers.
24:30
SPEAKER_02: Is that going to make them better at it?
24:31
SPEAKER_02: I don't know.
24:32
SPEAKER_02: I'm not understanding.
24:34
SPEAKER_03: I don't understand how the testosterone – I mean, yeah,
24:36
SPEAKER_03: if you like – It
24:38
SPEAKER_02: seems like a performative act like so much of what Hegseth does,
24:42
SPEAKER_02: but – But in this case,
24:44
SPEAKER_02: he backs it up with real policies that can do real harm to people.
24:49
SPEAKER_03: And here's the problem with podcasters running the entire government,
24:53
SPEAKER_03: is that a lot of it is a performative act until it isn't.
24:59
SPEAKER_03: We're managing the anti-vaccine coalition over at HHS.
25:03
SPEAKER_03: Oh, actually, there's a proposal to move $5 billion into that.
25:06
SPEAKER_03: We're doing these gaudy,
25:08
SPEAKER_03: ostentatious,
25:09
SPEAKER_03: masculine displays, renaming the Department of Defense the Department of War.
25:13
SPEAKER_03: Oh, actually, we're going to start injecting troops with testosterone.
25:16
SPEAKER_03: And on and on and on and on.
25:19
SPEAKER_03: We're sort of the,
25:21
SPEAKER_03: we're not going to call it art,
25:22
SPEAKER_03: but the theater that they're doing for politics is then becoming
25:26
SPEAKER_03: the actual politics.
25:27
SPEAKER_03: And that's a bad way to run a
25:30
SPEAKER_02: country because they don't know.
25:32
SPEAKER_02: They don't have any actual skills and leadership.
25:37
SPEAKER_02: I forget which senator when Hegseth before the Senate just in
25:40
SPEAKER_02: the last few days said, we don't need more testosterone in the military.
25:44
SPEAKER_02: We need leaders, you know, pointing to Hegseth himself.
25:47
SPEAKER_02: Like, look at yourself, Hegseth.
25:49
SPEAKER_02: You're the one who needs to be to have improvements.
25:51
SPEAKER_02: And it may or may not have anything to do with your testosterone,
25:54
SPEAKER_02: but it certainly has to do with your ability to lead that department.
25:57
SPEAKER_03: And he's failing.
25:59
SPEAKER_03: And just to underscore what a prick.
26:02
SPEAKER_03: When the BBC asked whether both male and female troops would be tested and
26:06
SPEAKER_03: if female troops would be able to be evaluated for estrogen-based therapy
26:10
SPEAKER_03: when they enter perimenopause, the Pentagon said it had no comment.
26:14
SPEAKER_03: And just like, good job, BBC.
26:16
SPEAKER_03: You are a real news agency.
26:17
SPEAKER_03: Thank you for being a real news agency.
26:20
SPEAKER_03: Appreciate you for what you do.
26:22
SPEAKER_03: Why don't we call it a day?
26:24
SPEAKER_03: Any last words?
26:25
SPEAKER_02: No.
26:25
SPEAKER_02: Ready to end it and see you in a week when hopefully the skies are not filled
26:29
SPEAKER_02: with smoke and we still can enjoy the outside.
26:31
SPEAKER_03: All right.
26:32
SPEAKER_03: Well, today's episode was written by Chris Savage, Dr.
26:36
SPEAKER_03: Rob Davidson, and me, Miles Baker.
26:37
SPEAKER_03: It was produced by Peter Ogburn and Chris Savage.
26:39
SPEAKER_03: It was edited by Peter Ogburn and April Stewie.
26:42
SPEAKER_03: Our music is by Annette Somerset at Duneflower Productions.
26:44
SPEAKER_03: And if you enjoyed today's show, please subscribe.
26:47
SPEAKER_03: Please, please, please subscribe on Substack or YouTube.
26:50
SPEAKER_03: I will just note for everybody who's listening, we are trying to grow our YouTube audience.
26:55
SPEAKER_03: We are trying to have good healthcare information,
26:58
SPEAKER_03: good healthcare politics information and discussion and other resources out to
27:01
SPEAKER_03: a more broader audience that is available on YouTube.
27:04
SPEAKER_03: So if you watch us on,
27:05
SPEAKER_03: if you listen to us on Spotify or Apple,
27:07
SPEAKER_03: or you watch us on Substack,
27:08
SPEAKER_03: if you're willing to go over to YouTube and give us a subscribe or a like,
27:12
SPEAKER_03: anything you do, we really appreciate it.
27:14
SPEAKER_03: I also want to note that if you are interested in supporting the show,
27:19
SPEAKER_03: you can become a paying subscriber on Substack,
27:22
SPEAKER_03: and we will use every penny for the production of this show and getting it out to
27:26
SPEAKER_03: as many people as we can.
27:27
SPEAKER_03: So we appreciate that, anyone who's able and willing to do that.
27:29
SPEAKER_02: That, today, is our show, Rob.
27:31
SPEAKER_02: It's great chatting with you.
27:32
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you too.
27:32
SPEAKER_02: See you next week.