Latest / Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families / The Truth About Men, Emotions, and Silence (with Craig Russouw)

Transcript

The Truth About Men, Emotions, and Silence (with Craig Russouw) · Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families

• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Hello and welcome to the Happy Families Podcast. Today, I'm
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: speaking with Craig Roussou, a psychologist with over twenty years
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: of experience specializing in men's mental health. Craig works with
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: Someone Health and is one of the experts behind the
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: Mental Maintenance Manual. It's a free and practical guide that's
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: designed to help Aussie men service their mental health the
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: same way that they'd service their car. I like that
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: with nearly half of Australian men experiencing anxiety or depression
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: in their lifetime, but few of them one in five
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: seeking help, and unfortunately, three quarters of suicide deaths in
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: Australia being male. This conversation ties directly into themes that
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: I'm exploring in my upcoming book Boys, which is going
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: to be out in June. Last week had a chat
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: with Brisbane Boys College Principal Andre Cassen about raising great boys.
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: Today we're talking about what keeps men silent, the tools
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: that will actually work, and how we help boys and
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: men to build healthier models of masculinity. Craig Rousso next
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: on the Happy Families podcast. Hello and welcome to the
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: Happy Families podcast, where you get real parenting solutions every
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: single day. This is Australia's most downloaded parenting podcast. Money's
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: not to Justin Coulson and today Craig Rosso, who has
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: been working around the mental health space twenty years, specializing
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: in men's mental health. It's so good of you to
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: join me on the pod to talk about this today, Craig,
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: thanks for being here.
• 1:33
  Speaker 2: NOL doesn't appreciate you having me looking forward to the chat.
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: Tell me in brief, because Australia doesn't do a great
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: job in collecting high quality data, what are the latest
• 1:43
  Speaker 1: figures around Australian men and mental health.
• 1:47
  Speaker 3: It is a really important question, mate, because almost half
• 1:52
  Speaker 3: fuzzy blokes will experience mental health issues in their lives,
• 1:55
  Speaker 3: but lessen one imply, I think it's about twelve percent
• 1:58
  Speaker 3: will actually take this step of getting some support.
• 2:01
  Speaker 2: They're more likely and about eighty.
• 2:03
  Speaker 3: Percent will go to a GP when they're in crisis
• 2:06
  Speaker 3: or experiencing significant psychological distress.
• 2:08
  Speaker 2: But unfortunately, less than a.
• 2:10
  Speaker 3: Half of those guys will actually take that next step
• 2:13
  Speaker 3: and seek out some support. We're very fortunate in this
• 2:16
  Speaker 3: day and age to have access to a lot more services.
• 2:19
  Speaker 3: We've got online services tallyhealth and helplines, but about eighty
• 2:24
  Speaker 3: percent of blokes are indicating that they wouldn't use that
• 2:28
  Speaker 3: as a support type. And unfortunately, there are about seven
• 2:33
  Speaker 3: suicides from men in Australia a day. That makes up
• 2:37
  Speaker 3: about seventy five percent of our suicide So despite what
• 2:40
  Speaker 3: is a really growing and big issue, unfortunately Ausie blokes's
• 2:45
  Speaker 3: just not getting the health that they need.
• 2:47
  Speaker 1: So there are a couple of things that I want
• 2:48
  Speaker 1: to pick up on with what you've said. First off,
• 2:51
  Speaker 1: the mental health industrial complex makes a big deal about
• 2:54
  Speaker 1: how much depression anxiety is out there, how many mental
• 2:56
  Speaker 1: health challenges, how much psychological stress is out there, and
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: everywhere you go, every time you go into the bathroom,
• 3:01
  Speaker 1: standard of urine or whatever it is, there's going to
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: be a post to telling you that if you've got
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: these signs, then you could have a mental health challenge.
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: How much do you think that the mental health industrial
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: complex is I get that awareness matters, and I'm a
• 3:14
  Speaker 1: really big supporter of that. I'm an ambassador for several
• 3:18
  Speaker 1: organizations that are about raising awareness. But sometimes I feel
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: like raising awareness can amplify a problem that may not
• 3:26
  Speaker 1: be there, that we can get false positives or that
• 3:28
  Speaker 1: we can drag people into something that they might not
• 3:30
  Speaker 1: have had if they didn't start getting worried about whether
• 3:32
  Speaker 1: or not they should be worried about whether they should
• 3:34
  Speaker 1: worry about having that thing. What's your response to that.
• 3:37
  Speaker 3: I think it's a really good question. The first thing
• 3:39
  Speaker 3: that bumped into my mind is this perception that people
• 3:42
  Speaker 3: have that if they talk about suicide as an example,
• 3:47
  Speaker 3: and particularly suicide for this example, then it's going to
• 3:50
  Speaker 3: exacerbate that sentiment. It's going to mean that they experience
• 3:53
  Speaker 3: more suicide ideation or their higher risk of suicide.
• 3:57
  Speaker 2: But research has shown that that's actually not the case.
• 4:00
  Speaker 3: You know, really importantly, it's more appropriate for somebody to
• 4:05
  Speaker 3: talk to someone about that the stress and you know,
• 4:07
  Speaker 3: the experience that they're going through in terms of general
• 4:11
  Speaker 3: health literacy and whether we're getting false positives from that,
• 4:14
  Speaker 3: you know. In relation to your question, I think the
• 4:16
  Speaker 3: more that we can have out there the better.
• 4:19
  Speaker 2: You're right. You do see things everywhere nowadays. Every day
• 4:22
  Speaker 2: one sees things, you know, you're as an example, in
• 4:25
  Speaker 2: a toilet. But I think with.
• 4:28
  Speaker 3: Blokes in particular, which is obviously our focus of today,
• 4:31
  Speaker 3: the more that they see those things, the repetition of
• 4:34
  Speaker 3: that type of information, I think it's more.
• 4:36
  Speaker 2: Likely to stick and resonate with them.
• 4:38
  Speaker 3: But we still have the problem around vulnerability for guys,
• 4:43
  Speaker 3: which is a key thing. So despite seeing information about
• 4:47
  Speaker 3: science and symptoms of mental illness and that you should
• 4:50
  Speaker 3: go and get some help, there are some you know,
• 4:53
  Speaker 3: old schools sottle expectations around masculinity, which makes.
• 4:57
  Speaker 2: It hard for them to take that next step.
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: Every time I shared a slide in my presentations around
• 5:03
  Speaker 1: resilience on mental health, there's a gender difference. So females
• 5:09
  Speaker 1: are shown consistently in every study that I've found to
• 5:13
  Speaker 1: have high levels of psychological stress and mental health challenge
• 5:15
  Speaker 1: than men. And usually someone will put up their hand
• 5:19
  Speaker 1: and they'll say, well, that's because men just don't acknowledge it.
• 5:21
  Speaker 1: Men won't own up to it. Generally speaking, there are
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: some other methodological issues that can somewhat cancel that out,
• 5:28
  Speaker 1: although not entirely. You've been working in this area for
• 5:31
  Speaker 1: twenty years. Other than this idea that you've just mentioned
• 5:35
  Speaker 1: that men have got these societal expectations that they're supposed
• 5:38
  Speaker 1: to be strong, what else stops them from seeking support?
• 5:41
  Speaker 2: There is still some stigma around mental health. I think
• 5:45
  Speaker 2: we've had some massive steps in that in the last
• 5:48
  Speaker 2: five to ten years, even fifteen years, but there is
• 5:53
  Speaker 2: still some stigma attached to it. You know.
• 5:55
  Speaker 3: Essentially what that means is that a lot of bikes
• 5:57
  Speaker 3: will just think that there's something wrong with them after
• 6:00
  Speaker 3: having a mental health issue. Guys generally engaged with general
• 6:04
  Speaker 3: breaktors so with their GPS less. Women are more likely
• 6:07
  Speaker 3: or more frequently go see GPS, their visits are.
• 6:10
  Speaker 2: Generally for longer and it's important access pathway. You know.
• 6:14
  Speaker 3: I've got MBS better Access, which is a fantastic service
• 6:17
  Speaker 3: that the Australian Government has developed and has been running
• 6:20
  Speaker 3: for quite some time, and GPS a prom access point
• 6:23
  Speaker 3: for that and also other mental health services as well.
• 6:26
  Speaker 2: We talked about literacy before.
• 6:28
  Speaker 3: Generally most guys are going to have poor mental health literacy,
• 6:31
  Speaker 3: so that's the ability to obtain and stand and utilize
• 6:34
  Speaker 3: that information. Studies have shown that depression literacy, you know,
• 6:38
  Speaker 3: is worse in men.
• 6:40
  Speaker 1: Let's get really concrete on this. If I'm a guy
• 6:42
  Speaker 1: and I don't have reasonable literacy around my mental health,
• 6:47
  Speaker 1: what is going to be happening for me? And how
• 6:49
  Speaker 1: am I going to be misinterpreting it.
• 6:51
  Speaker 2: Guys can present differently. Guys can present more often with things.
• 6:55
  Speaker 3: Like irritability, anger, you know, fatigue, motivation issues, overworking, underworking.
• 7:02
  Speaker 3: Of course, you know the classical things like low mood
• 7:05
  Speaker 3: and anxiety. But you know, on the surface, a lot
• 7:09
  Speaker 3: of those things might not be evident to them as
• 7:12
  Speaker 3: a mental health issue or a risk factor.
• 7:15
  Speaker 1: So if I was to sound like my dad for
• 7:18
  Speaker 1: a second, of my grandpa, you get these guys who
• 7:23
  Speaker 1: are in their thirties or forties or fifties, and they
• 7:26
  Speaker 1: turn into cranky old buggers, And what's actually going on
• 7:30
  Speaker 1: is that they're not angry people, but there's something going
• 7:33
  Speaker 1: underneath the surface. They're dealing with some forms of anxiety
• 7:36
  Speaker 1: or some depression, or maybe even something deeper than that,
• 7:40
  Speaker 1: some existential terror. But they're just not attuned enough to
• 7:44
  Speaker 1: what's happening under the surface to get it. And so
• 7:46
  Speaker 1: everyone just thinks that and they think they think that
• 7:48
  Speaker 1: they're just moody, that they're just cranky, and so they
• 7:51
  Speaker 1: get mad, they go and drink a little bit too
• 7:54
  Speaker 1: much or start to ignore the people around them, And
• 7:59
  Speaker 1: what's going on is that there may be some mental
• 8:01
  Speaker 1: health challenge.
• 8:02
  Speaker 3: Absolutely a lot of boys and guys will often externalize
• 8:07
  Speaker 3: mental health issues, you know, and anger and irritability being
• 8:11
  Speaker 3: very obviously that you were talking about then, or engaged
• 8:15
  Speaker 3: in risky or dangerous behavior like you know, driving fast
• 8:19
  Speaker 3: or using alcohol or other substances, and you're right, it's
• 8:24
  Speaker 3: just not clear to them what is under the surface.
• 8:28
  Speaker 2: So very often that you know, irritability or the anger can.
• 8:31
  Speaker 3: Be an expression of I'm feeling unsafe, I'm feeling very anxious,
• 8:35
  Speaker 3: I'm feeling very low, and yet they are unable to
• 8:39
  Speaker 3: tap into what's going on underneath, and you know, for
• 8:42
  Speaker 3: that reason, for them and the people around.
• 8:44
  Speaker 2: Them might not be really evident that what he's going
• 8:49
  Speaker 2: on to serve.
• 8:50
  Speaker 1: It's a really tricky question, maybe quite nuanced, and could
• 8:55
  Speaker 1: even be a hard one to answer. But to what
• 8:57
  Speaker 1: extent is a guy who is angry or like you said,
• 9:03
  Speaker 1: externalizing doing things that aren't necessarily going to be considered
• 9:07
  Speaker 1: pro social and considered of others. To what extent is
• 9:11
  Speaker 1: that somebody who's just choosing not to regulate and choosing
• 9:13
  Speaker 1: to be a bit of a well, I don't want
• 9:16
  Speaker 1: to sound too horrible, but be a bit of a
• 9:18
  Speaker 1: pig versus somebody who's dealing with a genuine mental health challenge,
• 9:22
  Speaker 1: Like there are some people who are just angry people.
• 9:25
  Speaker 1: They just choose not to regulate. They don't have a
• 9:27
  Speaker 1: mental health condition or problem. They're just in their own
• 9:30
  Speaker 1: little world and they're not thinking about the people around them.
• 9:32
  Speaker 1: And then there are other people who are genuinely struggling
• 9:34
  Speaker 1: with depression and grief and anxiety and other things. How
• 9:38
  Speaker 1: do you disentangle the two.
• 9:41
  Speaker 2: That's a good question and a tricky one, and I
• 9:44
  Speaker 2: think you untangle that through dialogue with another person, whether
• 9:49
  Speaker 2: that's a loved one you know, a family member, a friend,
• 9:52
  Speaker 2: or whether you seek professional support. You can really work
• 9:56
  Speaker 2: through the layers and have a really good discussion about
• 10:00
  Speaker 2: what's going on for them and potentially the reasons for
• 10:03
  Speaker 2: why it might be going on.
• 10:04
  Speaker 3: And that involves discussions, you know, really importantly right back
• 10:08
  Speaker 3: to your family of origin, you know, where you can
• 10:11
  Speaker 3: really get blow many layers of what's happened to them
• 10:14
  Speaker 3: over the journey, and you get to the core of why,
• 10:17
  Speaker 3: as an example, they might be feeling angry or irritable
• 10:21
  Speaker 3: or acting out aggressively in their life.
• 10:25
  Speaker 1: We're back with more from Craig Russo. After break, We're back.
• 10:35
  Speaker 1: This is the Happy Family's podcast. Craig Russo dedicated and
• 10:39
  Speaker 1: experienced psychologists with a career spanning over two decades, beginning
• 10:42
  Speaker 1: in two thousand and three, talking about boys, men, mental health,
• 10:46
  Speaker 1: support seeking and the fact that too many guys just
• 10:49
  Speaker 1: won't ask for help. Craig, you've been involved in this
• 10:52
  Speaker 1: mental maintenance manual. The idea is you take the car
• 10:55
  Speaker 1: in for a service every so often, and it's probably
• 10:57
  Speaker 1: good to get you in for a service every so
• 10:59
  Speaker 1: often from mental health perspective. I got to mate who
• 11:01
  Speaker 1: used to be a cop. He saw some horrendous things,
• 11:04
  Speaker 1: ended up leaving the force because it was just too
• 11:07
  Speaker 1: much for him, the horrors that he had to deal with.
• 11:11
  Speaker 1: He worked in the child protection squad, which is probably
• 11:15
  Speaker 1: it's got to be one of the hardest places that
• 11:16
  Speaker 1: you could ever work. And we were on a bike
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: ride one time having a good conversation when he said
• 11:22
  Speaker 1: to me that he goes and sees a psychologist every
• 11:25
  Speaker 1: three four months even though things are fine, because he
• 11:30
  Speaker 1: just wants to stay on top of He called it
• 11:32
  Speaker 1: maintenance mode. I don't have anything going on, I don't
• 11:35
  Speaker 1: need to see the sych but I just call on
• 11:36
  Speaker 1: every three or four months. I've got that standing appointment
• 11:39
  Speaker 1: because I want to keep the maintenance up to date.
• 11:43
  Speaker 1: Tell us a bit about your mental maintenance manual. This
• 11:45
  Speaker 1: idea of servicing your mental health the way your service, car.
• 11:49
  Speaker 2: Entertainment, someone else.
• 11:51
  Speaker 3: Encouraging guys to treat their mental health in the same
• 11:54
  Speaker 3: way that they might taking care of their physical health,
• 11:57
  Speaker 3: taking care of their car, or taking care of their
• 11:59
  Speaker 3: guard with small and consistent steps around mental health maintenance,
• 12:04
  Speaker 3: and you know, the guy goes over things like identifying
• 12:07
  Speaker 3: stressors and triggers, you know, skills for building resilience, and
• 12:11
  Speaker 3: skills for identifying signs of mental health problems, hopefully to
• 12:16
  Speaker 3: prevent the onset of more significant issues, all the exacerbation
• 12:20
  Speaker 3: of things that you might already have going on. Some
• 12:24
  Speaker 3: of the things that are really key from the manual
• 12:27
  Speaker 3: include rewarding activities, so I can't play. Any times I've
• 12:30
  Speaker 3: talked with guys and you know, ask them what are
• 12:32
  Speaker 3: you doing for yourself?
• 12:32
  Speaker 2: What do you enjoy? And they'll say nothing or very little.
• 12:36
  Speaker 3: It's really hard to have a good experience, or positive
• 12:39
  Speaker 3: or happy experience of your life if you're not doing
• 12:41
  Speaker 3: things that you find rewarding. So really whatever works for
• 12:44
  Speaker 3: you little snippets you know over the week. That might
• 12:47
  Speaker 3: be hunting, might be fishing, might be arts and cramp.
• 12:49
  Speaker 3: At the end of the day, it's about you enjoy
• 12:52
  Speaker 3: and trying to incorporate that in. You know, the good
• 12:56
  Speaker 3: old fashioned seven to nine hours sleep is angely really underrated,
• 13:01
  Speaker 3: and I'm gonna admit I'm not fantastic with that, but
• 13:03
  Speaker 3: that that really does help, as well as does having
• 13:06
  Speaker 3: a generally good diet. You know, so eating clean and
• 13:10
  Speaker 3: healthy for the most part, noting that you know you're
• 13:13
  Speaker 3: gonna eat those treats and things that you're like, or
• 13:15
  Speaker 3: have your cheap meal however you describe.
• 13:17
  Speaker 2: But I still think that's really important to.
• 13:19
  Speaker 3: Have those things, and for blokes in particular, but really
• 13:25
  Speaker 3: this does apply to everybody true face to face social connection.
• 13:29
  Speaker 3: So us guys, I'm pretty hopeless of picking up the
• 13:32
  Speaker 3: phone and having a chat to someone else about what's
• 13:34
  Speaker 3: going on.
• 13:35
  Speaker 2: We do need something to connect us very.
• 13:37
  Speaker 3: Often, and you know, those could be activities like the
• 13:40
  Speaker 3: ones I've mentioned before. You know, it could be going
• 13:43
  Speaker 3: out for a meal, it could be going for official
• 13:45
  Speaker 3: to mate.
• 13:46
  Speaker 2: They provide us with.
• 13:46
  Speaker 3: That platform where you know, we can start to tease
• 13:49
  Speaker 3: out some dialogue and we can support each other.
• 13:52
  Speaker 2: So those are some of the things that are in
• 13:54
  Speaker 2: the manual, and yeah there's other tips and tricks in
• 13:58
  Speaker 2: there as well. And again to.
• 13:59
  Speaker 3: Think been consistent and doing things as often as you can,
• 14:04
  Speaker 3: but to not.
• 14:05
  Speaker 2: Be harsh to yourself.
• 14:07
  Speaker 3: If you fall off the holes, you have a few
• 14:09
  Speaker 3: bad days or a bad way, it's the idea is just.
• 14:12
  Speaker 2: To get back on.
• 14:13
  Speaker 3: Don't beat yourself up about it, but really try and
• 14:16
  Speaker 3: have these key and consistent parts to maintain.
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: I recall seeing the Mental Maintenance Manual a little while
• 14:23
  Speaker 1: back and just thinking this is so smart. I really
• 14:26
  Speaker 1: enjoy it. I received some stuff in the post that
• 14:28
  Speaker 1: sort of showed me how it all worked, and it
• 14:31
  Speaker 1: just fit so well. I haven't heard of someone health before.
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: Let's just make this absolutely blatant. You guys got in
• 14:38
  Speaker 1: touch because you wanted people to know what someone health
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: is so that we can make make care more accessible
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: for people who are not reaching out for support. Give
• 14:48
  Speaker 1: us a thirty second blurb on what someone health is
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: and why this matters in terms of ossie guys, boys
• 14:55
  Speaker 1: men getting the support that they need.
• 14:57
  Speaker 2: Thanks justin leading into that.
• 15:00
  Speaker 3: Another really important barrier to access is actual access to services,
• 15:05
  Speaker 3: so then being physically available near to you, having knowledge
• 15:10
  Speaker 3: about services and being able to afford them, particularly in
• 15:13
  Speaker 3: this day and age, and that's where a service block
• 15:14
  Speaker 3: someone else can be a real game changer. It's a
• 15:17
  Speaker 3: telehealth service, so you can get support from the comfort
• 15:20
  Speaker 3: of your own home or work, whatever suits.
• 15:23
  Speaker 2: You, at a time that suits you.
• 15:25
  Speaker 3: And of course it's available to people across Australia and
• 15:28
  Speaker 3: if you do have a mental health treatment plan, you
• 15:31
  Speaker 3: get ten sessions a year and there's no gap whatsoever.
• 15:35
  Speaker 3: So in terms of accessibility, you know, it's really helping
• 15:38
  Speaker 3: with that barrier, and in terms of cost as well,
• 15:41
  Speaker 3: it's really.
• 15:41
  Speaker 2: Helping with that barrier. There's over two hundred therapists on
• 15:45
  Speaker 2: the platform and right fit's an important thing for anybody,
• 15:48
  Speaker 2: So you know, I think there's a good chance that
• 15:50
  Speaker 2: if you jump on and have a look with that
• 15:52
  Speaker 2: many therapists, you can find someone with the expertise and
• 15:55
  Speaker 2: skills that are a good fit for you.
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: Okay, So I give us the website, phone number, anything
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: else that people need. I can find out more about
• 16:01
  Speaker 1: someone health and actually do the support seeking that is
• 16:06
  Speaker 1: all too often, far too lacking.
• 16:08
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I'll give you the website is literally just someone
• 16:11
  Speaker 3: giant health. If you stick that into your search engine,
• 16:14
  Speaker 3: it should be the top one that comes up.
• 16:16
  Speaker 2: And you'll be able to easily navigate your way through there.
• 16:20
  Speaker 3: In this day and age, I see a lot of
• 16:23
  Speaker 3: guys who are confused about masculinity and whether it's a
• 16:27
  Speaker 3: good or a band thing. But there absolutely are good
• 16:31
  Speaker 3: masculine traits, and you know, I think it's important that
• 16:35
  Speaker 3: I mentioned that there's not you know, just men. You know,
• 16:38
  Speaker 3: these traits through in women and men, but things like perseverance,
• 16:41
  Speaker 3: under dus self, confidenence, you know, decisiveness, strength, These are
• 16:47
  Speaker 3: all amazing attributes that I think can be celebrated in
• 16:50
  Speaker 3: everybody and should be encouraged in everyone.
• 16:53
  Speaker 2: But it really is that you know, specific thing that
• 16:56
  Speaker 2: happens for a lot of guys, which is that struggle
• 16:58
  Speaker 2: being vulnerability.
• 16:59
  Speaker 3: So hopefully you can find someone that you can start
• 17:02
  Speaker 3: your journey with or the least contribute to your journey
• 17:05
  Speaker 3: in terms of opening up and talking a little bit
• 17:07
  Speaker 3: more about what's going on for me.
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: Yeah, good on your Craig, You're doing really really important work.
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: And I hope that more people can access it take
• 17:14
  Speaker 1: advantage of what you're doing. Even if they just get
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: a hold of that mental maintenance manual that's online, it'll
• 17:19
  Speaker 1: make such a difference. But reaching out for the help
• 17:21
  Speaker 1: where you need it is valuable. We have statistics that
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: are all pointing in the wrong direction when it comes
• 17:26
  Speaker 1: to how men are doing. So grateful for your time.
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: That's Craig Russo from someone health, a psychologist over the
• 17:32
  Speaker 1: last two decades or more who's focused entirely on men's
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: and boys' mental health and navigating the challenges associated with
• 17:42
  Speaker 1: what's going on and in our heads. For more, check
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: the show notes. We will link to everything that Craig's
• 17:47
  Speaker 1: talked about in the show notes. The Happy Families podcast
• 17:49
  Speaker 1: is produced by Justin Ruland from Bridge medium. Imhammons provides
• 17:52
  Speaker 1: additional research and admin support. If you'd like more info
• 17:55
  Speaker 1: to make your family happier, check out the resources and
• 17:57
  Speaker 1: the links, or visit happy families dot com.
• 18:00
  Speaker 2: Don't you