Latest / Halliday’s Podcast / Danial Kaabi, CEO Sea Horizon Offshore Services - Iran Conflict, Strait of Hormuz Shipping Crisis, Gulf Maritime Strategy & AI

Transcript

Danial Kaabi, CEO Sea Horizon Offshore Services - Iran Conflict, Strait of Hormuz Shipping Crisis, Gulf Maritime Strategy & AI · Halliday’s Podcast

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome back to Halliday's Podcast.
• 0:02
  SPEAKER_00: Today we're recording episode 23 with a guest operating right at the heart of one of the world's most strategically vital waterways.
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_00: Longtime friend of the podcast, Daniel Carbi, is CEO of Sea Horizon Offshore Marine Services, a Qatar-based family-rooted company with nearly five decades of experience in offshore support.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_00: They specialized in vessel ownership and chartering, towage and rig moves, jack-up accommodation barges, ship management, and tailored advisory services for the offshore oil and gas sector across the Gulf.
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_00: Right now the region is navigating intense geopolitical pressure from the ongoing US, Israel, and Iran conflict, with major disruptions around the Strait of Hormuz that are reshaping the shipping industry.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_00: We're talking routes, insurance, energy flows, and operational risk.
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_00: Daniel is going to walk us through how Sea Horizon has adapted its strategy in real time, what these tensions mean for regional and global maritime shipping, the longer-term outlook for the Gulf, and how artificial intelligence is starting to transform the marine services industry.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_00: Daniel, we are very grateful to have you with us today.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_00: I appreciate how busy you are, and so thank you for making the time.
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_00: How are things in the beautiful Doha?
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_01: First of all, never too busy for you.
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_01: Always great to catch up with you and have these kind of conversations.
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_01: Doha's good.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, you know, quiet currently because it is summertime.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_01: So a lot of uh people have left for school holidays.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_01: At at the time of this recording, we are currently at another regional suspension of actions.
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_01: So let's see how long this time it lasts.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_01: But which is why the last couple of days have been good.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_01: I know Qatar just started uh restarted maritime activity, which was suspended for a couple of weeks, uh, given the last 12 days where the conflict kind of restarted again between Israel, Iran, and America?
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, there's I mean, it's uh it's a daily, it's it's changing on a daily basis, obviously, so it's actually quite difficult to uh to prep for such a podcast.
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_00: But why don't we um for listeners who may not know Sea Horizon Offshore Marine Services, can you give us an overview of your company and the role you play in the Gulf's offshore oil and gas support ecosystem?
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_01: Of course.
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, um Sea Horizon Offshore Marine Services is a kind of an offshoot of a third-generation family business.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_01: So into this industry, my grandfather started, ironically, during the Iran-Iraq War.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_01: Uh he started entering the business for salvage and emergency response.
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, then when my father took over, he uh he he he went into vessel ownership, uh, whether it was tugboats or supply boats to support the oil and gas sector.
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_01: In about 2017, I came into the business and in 2022 I actually opened Sea Horizon Offshore Marine Services.
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_01: So, as much as it is a family-run business, it it's a it's kind of an offshoot of the legacy that the family had previously.
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_01: Um, we decided to headquarter this company in Qatar because I saw that Qatar is what the entire future for energy holds, right?
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_01: A lot of countries in the region are focusing on oil, but Qatar is looked at the next LNG power producer in the world.
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_01: You know, they will be the number one LNG producers in the world and exporters.
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so I saw a great opportunity.
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_01: I think what we offer as Sea Horizon Offshore Marine Services, whether it's partnership from international companies that want to enter the region, whether it's providing unique assets and full local strategies for the energy sector, uh what we have here is a great advantage.
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_01: And when I saw Qatar as an opportunity, I said that this is something that will be good.
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_01: Thankfully, in four years, we have been very lucky and blessed and extremely thankful that we have succeeded now on two long-term contracts supporting Qatar Energy.
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_01: One is a 24-year contract that will be supporting Russell Vonport with the birthing of all the LNG carriers.
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_01: And another one is a 17-year contract with Halul Island, which is an island that stores LNG outside of Doha, and they are for the international companies, the vessels that are not owned by Qatar Energy, those tankers come into Halul Island, fuel up, and go on with the trade.
• 4:57
  SPEAKER_01: So we will be towing these tankers into Halul Island and Rastel Pine.
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_00: In terms of your day-to-day, how would you characterize the broader marine services and offshore support industry in the Gulf right now?
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_01: What's interesting is actually before this conflict, we would always joke about the marine industry and the energy industry that no two days are the same.
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_01: That's why it's exciting to be here.
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, but now no no two minutes are the same.
• 5:24
  unknown: Right?
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_01: Like it's it it's very it's very different.
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_01: Uh planning doesn't exist, reacting does, right?
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_01: We don't whatever you plan.
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_01: There's a funny quote that back in the day, it's like everyone has a plan until they get punched in the face.
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_01: Well, yeah, you there's many opportunities we get punched in the face in this today's climate, right?
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_01: Uh it's more reactive, to say the least, for lack of a better word, right?
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_01: We're we're constantly reacting.
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_01: Now, of course, given the fact that this conflict started in February of this year, we've had enough experience to know what we could possibly react to.
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but every day it's a new thing.
• 6:07
  SPEAKER_01: As of right now, it's it's calm.
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_01: Uh but we all know, and I think we everyone at home has become enough of a energy and war consultant to know that this this may not be the end because there's always something.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_01: I was actually reading something before we got on the this call about how the Iranian foreign ministry had said that US will only stop when the energy prices go up.
• 6:41
  SPEAKER_01: And that's when they hold back on the attacks, which I found was very interesting.
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_01: And for the past three months we actually have seen that up and down.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_00: So can you take us back to uh February and where you were what you were doing at the time when when the war broke out, and and uh you know, were you um were you sort of more aware that something was about to break?
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, ironically, I mean I've been following this.
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, even I think when you were we were last together, we were having this conversation.
• 7:13
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's it's not a secret or a surprise that the tension between the three countries was ongoing for the past however long.
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's it's I remember back then everyone it was it was like waiting for your favorite, well not your favorite, but waiting for a movie to come in the cinema.
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_01: Because you're every every Friday they're like, okay, they will only attack on the weekend, so every weekend you're like, okay, they haven't attacked, we're okay, and that was leading up.
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_01: So I was actually in Dubai, it was Ramadan, because my family's there.
• 7:45
  SPEAKER_01: And um, I was flying to Doha that Friday night uh for uh a gathering here in Doha, and I had told uh the friends of mine here, I said, I'm not gonna come.
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_01: And they're and they said, Well, I'm like, listen, I've been following this, uh, and I don't think it's gonna be good.
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_01: And what actually really made it worrying for me is when the foreign minister of Oman flew to Washington and it was in the middle of negotiations, and I found it personally alarming that the negotiations are happening in Oman, you know, everything is good, but for a foreign minister of this region to go to Washington, to go on live TV and say we are so close to a deal, we've it's the deal is even better than the Obama deal.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_01: I was quite concerned, and I did not and I've been you know leading up the family to this because I know throughout this whole time, the four, five, six months, that there was rumors or buildup that there would be an attack.
• 8:52
  SPEAKER_01: Iran always said that we will target the rest of the region.
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_01: So it wasn't a surprise.
• 8:59
  SPEAKER_01: I've seen a video of Trump say we were shocked that that that the region was uh was impacted.
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_01: Now, of course, it's not a good thing or anything because the region has been heavily impacted.
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_01: But I remember telling my wife the night before I said, listen, we have to be careful because I don't know what the outcome will be.
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_01: And when I was at the gym the next morning, I was seeing pictures of of the evening gathering for a far, and everyone said I missed out, and I did.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_01: And then uh I looked up and I saw a couple of uh shocked faces at the gym because I guess they were reading the news.
• 9:39
  SPEAKER_01: And I I opened my Instagram because that's where we get news today, um, and I saw that there was an attack on Iran, and I actually at first saw thought that it was pretty light because it was just one explosion that was being reported, and I'm like, okay, well, this must have been targeted then.
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_01: And then I realized that right after, because usually the previous times when there were attacks, Iran five hours later, you'd be on CNN, and it's like, okay, Iran has sent drones and you're watching.
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_01: But this time it it relatively the response happened quickly, and I remember going on a walk on the beach with my wife, and I told her, I said, we need to be careful, and we saw an interception on the beach in Dubai in front of us, and we're like, okay, let's go home.
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_01: And I remember those three days, so I have some friends uh from America that are expats in Dubai, they came and stayed over at our house, and those three days it was literally uh sitting in our garden, no sleep, because I live beside the airport in Dubai, so you just see the interceptions above you nonstop.
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_01: And uh I mean in the moment it's not quite you don't realize it looking back at it.
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_01: Now it's pretty surreal that you know you're sitting there having a barbecue outside just because you don't want to be inside because you want to see what's happening.
• 11:01
  SPEAKER_01: The most difficult part was the children, right?
• 11:03
  SPEAKER_01: Uh telling my daughter that it's still Ramadan fireworks three months later.
• 11:08
  SPEAKER_01: Um it's not really working well.
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, it's it's it's been it's been pretty surreal and intense.
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_01: And the fact that we're in what, July now and this is still something, if it's I guess we're used to it, but we shouldn't be, in my opinion.
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_00: So let's see.
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_00: And how impressed were you with the authorities uh throughout the region and both uh Dubai and Doha in terms of um the information that they were providing you as a business owner, um the care, etc.
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_01: I think the support that both countries and all countries in the region that have been affected, right, has been incredible.
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_01: I think uh for me specifically, UAE in Qatar has has been amazing in providing support for business owners and um transparency and the information that we provide.
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's it's it's we're we joke about the alerts, but those alerts are pretty pretty helpful, you know.
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_01: And then and then to tell you that the alerts are they give you another alert when the uh situation is more calm.
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you for cooperating, it's safe.
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_01: Uh now that's more of a personal thing, but uh from a business standpoint, I know that in Qatar specifically, Qatar Development Bank, which is a local organization through QNB, actually supports all the companies that have been affected by this by giving a loan um for what has been affected, so salaries, rent, you know, your minimum, which has been very supportive and great.
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, um I I know I know hotels have have you know tourism is is still important in this part of the world.
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_01: So they have gotten a lot of support, and it's just very impressive.
• 12:57
  SPEAKER_01: But we knew this, right?
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_01: Because we saw during COVID, it was the same thing, right?
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_01: The UAE, Qatar, uh the whole region as a whole, uh during that time of crisis, supported and did everything to support its people, their people, uh to really make them feel comfortable and make them feel from home.
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_01: Like if you look at expat life in both these countries, right?
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's majority expats.
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_01: So it's it's I I describe it like a university, right?
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_01: You're you're you're basically doing your university run and then you go back home uh during the summer, which is what everyone does, but this region really does a great job at making you feel like you're one of us, like this is your home, right?
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_01: And it goes from an appreciation because over here there in the region you don't feel a separation between a Qatari and an expat, a U Emirati and and an expat.
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_01: Even driving down Dubai, all the billboards did say in UAE everyone is Emirati during this time, which I found really nice, right?
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's it's showing alliance and allegiance, which hats off to both countries in particular, but of course Saudi Arabia, Bahrain, Kuwait, Jordan, all of them did a great job.
• 14:17
  SPEAKER_00: And um and getting back to your business, how has Sea Horizon had to adapt its business strategy in response, whether around your vessel positioning, uh client contracts, insurance?
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I I it's obviously affected everything.
• 14:31
  SPEAKER_01: Insurance has been interesting, uh, of course.
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_01: Uh I mean now insurance quotes last a lot less time.
• 14:39
  SPEAKER_01: So we you know you have passage insurance that goes through the strait, which only lasts 24 hours.
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_01: Which comes complicated, right?
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_01: You you get the insurance, and if you can't pass through, you lose it, and then you have to apply again, so you're constantly spending money.
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_01: Now, of course, we've only attempted to cross the strait once, and we never did, um, to be honest.
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_01: Uh it was too risky.
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_01: Uh we were actually uh it was a project that we were very happy about uh when we when we first started working on it, it was to take some wind farm equipment to Taiwan for a client, and we were very confident in the project, but it was also during the time of the first ceasefire.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_01: I think it was like a three-week or one-month memorandum that they signed the very first time.
• 15:31
  SPEAKER_01: But even with that ceasefire, what people will not say, and what you don't see in the Western world, there was a lot of activity.
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_01: You know, uh, we would be talking to the captain, he's like, There may be a ceasefire.
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_01: But there's uh we're seeing a lot of uh interceptions above us.
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, crew being comfortable because crew doesn't want to be on board.
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_01: You know, the same thing as COVID, you know, nobody wanted to be in operation because of the health factors, but it's a little different, of course.
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_01: Um preparation, readiness.
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_01: So I mean, for us, it was very important to to think of all scenarios and to prepare further.
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_01: It's actually given us a very big chance of adapting AI into our systems, yeah.
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_01: Which I am a big I'm sure we'll touch on it later, but I'm a big uh supporter of AI.
• 16:25
  SPEAKER_01: I've always it's funny because when AI first became this this big boom, I was always trying to think of ways that AI could work for us.
• 16:35
  SPEAKER_01: You know, when people I feel like AI goes through phases, when you first get introduced to AI, you're like chat GPT.
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_01: And then you write type in the chat GPT, write me an email.
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_01: But learning quickly that there's so much more to do with AI, and we actually developed recently in-house a whole chart AI chartering model, which can based on the requirement source vessels and do everything for the jobs in the region, and it recognizes the requirements of the oil companies and the energy companies in the region, whether it's Qatar Energy, Saudi Aranco, and ADNAC, which is our three customers.
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_00: So you've been able to integrate AI with your contingency planning, your diversification, like it's it's sort of expedited the use of the technology, is that what you're saying?
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_01: Oh yeah, of course.
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I I think I think for what I've So with with with the fact that for the first couple months of of of this of this conflict, we were all told to stay home and business has stopped, right?
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_01: No ships are moving.
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_01: You just have to make sure that everyone's safe.
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_01: Uh it gave us time to really implement this stuff.
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_01: And and I I I I could sit here and tell and speak about this stuff all day because it's unbelievable what AI can do, right?
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_01: I I know this is more about the conflict and maritime, but one day we will definitely sit down and talk because we've I I I'm shocked.
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_01: Like we can now have AI predict our preventive maintenance systems.
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it it it's it it it gives you the situation of the ship and it tells you listen, if you don't overhaul this, then this is the ripple effect that could come, blah blah blah, and it actually puts it in front of you, right?
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_01: For someone that's not very operational or technical, and you see that your crew database, your charting database, like hey, you can get a notification that you know the crew is uh is is overcontracted.
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_01: So usually we do three months on, one month off, three months on, three months, one month off.
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_01: Um so yeah, and I think uh my goal now is to implement as much of this stuff into the system because at the end of the day it makes people's lives easier, it makes your job easier.
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_01: So as as to make your job as seamless as possible is the end goal, right?
• 19:09
  SPEAKER_00: So would you say the sort of war has um has allowed you some time to to fully test um AI, fully integrate it?
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_00: Like it sort of feels like a bit of a down period.
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean, yeah, definitely.
• 19:20
  SPEAKER_01: I I I agree.
• 19:23
  SPEAKER_01: Because we're so used to not having downtime, right?
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, we're so being react- I mean, it's still apart from AI, like we're we're we're we're focusing on a lot of salvage opportunities to take us back to the roots or of like I told you earlier, my grandfather started in the shipping industry during the Iran-Iraq War, which is ironic because now we're I 40, 50 years later, um stuck in the another war, right?
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_01: And and take in and what's funny is after the Iran-Iraq War is when the the company really took off with a port project, which is ironic because in April we deliver our first port project.
• 20:07
  SPEAKER_01: So so uh it's a it's a it's another term of how history ends up repeating itself, but in the most odd ways possible.
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, no, I think I think adapting with AI, and I look at it like this, right?
• 20:20
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's one day down the line, everybody is gonna know how to use AI.
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_01: So we might as well learn from now and be ahead of the curve, right?
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's before you know it, it it's it's everywhere the whole world will have different inputs, and anything you do has AI, and you can see even now new products come that implement AI, right?
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's good to hear that you're integrating.
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_00: Would you say that that is um systemic across your industry?
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_00: Um, do you feel your competitors have integrated?
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_00: Like are you seeing are you seeing its effects in the in the market?
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, war aside.
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_01: I am seeing I'm seeing a lot of softwares developing AI that supports the business.
• 21:05
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I know a lot of ship management companies started implementing AI into their systems actually two years ago, right?
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_01: And that's and that was interesting, but I do see a lot more companies using it, and it's very simple.
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_01: It's you could see some companies doing it as small as letting the AI take the minutes of meeting, which you know it's it it's a great entry point.
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but yes, I do see a lot of companies implementing it, and and the beautiful thing about it is you can implement it in so many ways.
• 21:36
  SPEAKER_01: But I do always say this, I I say that AI is an incredible tool, but with great power comes great responsibility.
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_01: And I don't think we should train people on AI, I think we should train the people.
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_01: Right?
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, um you can give anyone AI tools, but if you don't train them how to use it, it it it it can become the biggest nightmare ever.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: Because we had a we had a situation where we had an employee that only used Chat GPT for his emails and would never read them.
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_01: And it was uh it was uh one of the things I like to say in meetings is uh when you when you when you deal with our partners, romanticize your conversations.
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_01: But I I I mean that in a sales form where make them feel comfortable, be there for them, uh help them through their pain points and seduce them.
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 22:34
  SPEAKER_01: Well, thank God I didn't say that because what he had written in the email was romanticize my email and he sent it.
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_01: And um I remember reading it in my uh on the plane, and it was it was at the time it was very funny.
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_01: Well, now it's very funny.
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_01: At the time it was very stressful because I had to I was landing to go meet that client, and um I don't think he will I think he was very uncomfortable until I explained to him the story.
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah.
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_00: I remember we on a previous conversation about leadership that we were having, um, you were talking about um some of your risk mitigation planning and strategies, and um you were working with, I believe, a Scottish firm on your preparedness plan.
• 23:23
  SPEAKER_00: Uh can you tell us about that?
• 23:25
  SPEAKER_00: Because I sort of find that an incredible story about um you and you were making the point actually um about how you had been very humbled in this process.
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_01: Oh yeah, the the irony is uh good thing you remind me.
• 23:37
  SPEAKER_01: The irony is um the very first project we won for Qatar Energy was in 2022 in partnership with a Scottish company called Marex.
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_01: Uh great group, uh very supportive and great partnership.
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_01: That uh the project was developing the emergency response plan for Qatar Energy ports, which is Raslafan and Saeed.
• 23:59
  SPEAKER_01: And I remember sitting in the pre-presentation, the presentation run in uh internally, and one of the critical scenarios he had was if Iran bombs Raslafan.
• 24:13
  SPEAKER_01: And I remember sitting there and I was like, can you delete that?
• 24:16
  SPEAKER_01: He said, Why?
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, I think it's inappropriate.
• 24:20
  SPEAKER_01: I don't think I'll ever see a scenario in my lifetime that that will happen.
• 24:25
  SPEAKER_01: He said, Listen, the whole point of this is to be prepared for anything, whether a crazy scenario or a realistic scenario.
• 24:31
  SPEAKER_01: So I think I'm like, okay, you know what?
• 24:33
  SPEAKER_01: Let's do it.
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_01: And never did I think, even when we presented this ERP to Qatar Energy, never did I think that this would be used.
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_01: I said, okay, this is gonna be something that is just gonna be there, better to have than not need, and need than not have, right?
• 24:51
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, we're fine.
• 24:53
  SPEAKER_01: The moment that all this happened, I'm like, oh my god, they're gonna use it.
• 24:57
  SPEAKER_01: And then you get anxiety because you're like, you hope it was a really good plan, because now it's it it's crucial.
• 25:03
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, uh the irony of it is I never thought that this ERP needed to be used.
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_01: Um I think I won't take any credit for it because the Qatar Civil Defense has done an incredible job themselves.
• 25:18
  SPEAKER_01: But I'm glad that we uh we were able to support that.
• 25:21
  SPEAKER_01: It's a part of our history that, and I can always say this that I thought it was the most craziest statement that he could have made in the in some of those critical scenarios, and and here it is.
• 25:33
  SPEAKER_01: We're living the reality.
• 25:35
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, here it is.
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_00: Um so looking ahead, um, where do you see this conflict heading and and what are the most likely scenarios that maritime operators in the Gulf should be preparing for over the next sort of 16 to 18 months?
• 25:50
  SPEAKER_01: That's a good question.
• 25:51
  SPEAKER_01: Uh I I the easy answer is I don't know.
• 25:54
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, because every time I think I know, the situation changes.
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_01: Uh when this first started, I did uh take it wild guess that this would continue until October.
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_01: Mainly because I don't think that uh the US elections or the midterms will be will will be very positive for the current administration during a war.
• 26:22
  SPEAKER_01: Um but then when you see stoppages, you see negotiations, it's a lot of question marks.
• 26:29
  SPEAKER_01: And I don't one thing I say always is the only way that this conflict completely ends is if all uh with a deal with with a very similar deal that the Obama administration had.
• 26:45
  SPEAKER_01: And that's the only way to it's not gonna end where they just stop fighting randomly, okay, we stop fighting.
• 26:51
  SPEAKER_01: It's gonna be a way to end by bringing all sides together.
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_01: And I and I actually believe that all countries will be in that deal.
• 27:03
  SPEAKER_01: They have to be, right?
• 27:05
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, for example, I mean Iran and America can sign a deal, but how does that protect the other regional partners, right?
• 27:14
  SPEAKER_01: Uh how does that guarantee the safety of of Asandoha, you know, of of people in UAE, people in Saudi, right?
• 27:22
  SPEAKER_01: It needs to be uh a very broad framework deal.
• 27:25
  SPEAKER_01: And and that that is the only way I see happen.
• 27:27
  SPEAKER_01: When it first started, a lot of uh a lot of people said that it would end in a it would be a regime change, it will be a whole different thing.
• 27:37
  SPEAKER_01: And I I I don't think so.
• 27:38
  SPEAKER_01: I think Iran is a very complicated country to implement a regime change or anything like that.
• 27:45
  SPEAKER_01: But I think I think the way that this ends is through that.
• 27:49
  SPEAKER_01: In my opinion.
• 27:50
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I'm no I'm no political expert.
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, but that's just my that's just my opinion.
• 27:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 27:56
  SPEAKER_00: And stepping back, uh, what does this period of tension and disruption uh ultimately mean, do you think, for the future of the the Gulf as a region?
• 28:04
  SPEAKER_00: Um not just you know within the maritime energy hub, but for people living there, for you know the road that they were on, um, you know, the times that I've come out to see friends um and family living in the region, whether that be Dubai, uh Doha, always great times.
• 28:22
  SPEAKER_00: And um do you see it continuing down that line or do you see it changing completely?
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_01: I think I mean you go into every situation after something like this with a certain degree of caution, right?
• 28:36
  SPEAKER_01: But I I don't see the Middle East slowing down even after this from the from the trajectory that they were going, you know, it's it's the Middle East always bounces back in any conflict.
• 28:49
  SPEAKER_01: Um when COVID, we refer to COVID a lot today, but when COVID first happened, everyone said okay, the UAE is finished, you know.
• 28:58
  SPEAKER_01: They they if if you remember there was during right before COVID, there was actually an economic downfurn in all of the Middle East.
• 29:09
  SPEAKER_01: But after COVID, now you know I think the UAE when you're looking at the housing market, they spiked up like 60-70%.
• 29:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 29:18
  SPEAKER_01: Um so I do see I don't see uh any slowing down happening in the development of the region.
• 29:25
  SPEAKER_01: I do see more caution uh that's going to be adapted, which is normal.
• 29:32
  SPEAKER_01: Uh you you you your preparations.
• 29:35
  SPEAKER_01: Um thankfully, I think we have uh the resources in the region and the tools and the leaders to really make the change and and keep the trajectory going.
• 29:49
  SPEAKER_01: Uh I think I think one thing that we can all agree on is is the leaders of this region are incredible and they always find ways to help their people and develop their own country.
• 30:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I'd agree with you on both points.
• 30:06
  SPEAKER_00: I've always been very impressed with the leadership and uh and also the resilience.
• 30:10
  SPEAKER_00: Um you reminded me that um uh when we were speaking during the World Cup, um how Qatar or what Qatar had to to uh go through in order to deliver what it delivered.
• 30:23
  SPEAKER_00: Uh and we both um I think we were together at the World Cup.
• 30:26
  SPEAKER_00: But an incredible um spectacle uh with what f felt at the time like everyone was against them.
• 30:34
  SPEAKER_00: Um Yeah, I imagine I imagine that that same resilience uh will outlast the current conflict and and many more into the future.
• 30:45
  SPEAKER_01: I mean speaking of the World Cup, now we can for sure say it.
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_01: I do think now that the 2026 World Cup ended, the Qatar World Cup was still the best World Cup there was.
• 30:57
  SPEAKER_01: You saw no conflict.
• 30:59
  SPEAKER_01: I think we had a great time, the games.
• 31:03
  SPEAKER_01: You could go to three games a day, you could uh there was no crime, there was no pestering, there was no issues.
• 31:12
  SPEAKER_01: I never thought in my life I would see in one place Sukwakif at like two in the morning with like six countries just celebrating together and enjoying.
• 31:23
  SPEAKER_01: It was amazing.
• 31:24
  SPEAKER_01: I uh and and like you said, yeah, for uh up until I actually watched a documentary on Al Jazeera two days ago about the Qatar World Cup and how the whole world was against Qatar for the World Cup, and in my opinion, they pulled off the best World Cup there was.
• 31:42
  SPEAKER_01: And it will be impossible to ever match it because you will never have another country that you can go and watch three straight games in one day.
• 31:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, very, very unique.
• 31:51
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, what was it like this time in terms of the support?
• 31:54
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I know uh the Qatar is a football mad, but was there a sense of community watching the World Cup?
• 32:01
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know how it affected the time zones.
• 32:03
  SPEAKER_01: The time zones were horrible.
• 32:05
  SPEAKER_01: Uh you know, you you watch the first game comes on at like 11 p.m., then 2 a.m.
• 32:12
  SPEAKER_01: then 5 a.m.
• 32:13
  SPEAKER_01: It was tough.
• 32:14
  SPEAKER_01: But but one thing I loved is is and and you know, even in this World Cup, I saw a lot of uh media unfortunately uh discrediting Qatar.
• 32:25
  SPEAKER_01: Uh I don't know if you saw the Qatar games, which I found was beautiful of the Qataris that that were there in the stadium.
• 32:32
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, the media will say that oh, it was Qatar paid for people to go support, fake fans to support.
• 32:40
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like your country that you are from Yeah, because I mean Qatar does support Qatar, Qatar Airways did uh did uh did uh campaign where they they did pay for Qatari nationals to go watch the Qatari games, which any country could do if they really wanted to.
• 33:04
  SPEAKER_01: I think there was about 2,000 Qatari nationals.
• 33:07
  unknown: Yeah.
• 33:08
  SPEAKER_01: I would sign up if hotel and flight.
• 33:12
  SPEAKER_01: Um but yeah, so 2,000 Qataris, and it was beautiful because you get to see them in their traditional outfit in like San Francisco and cheering it on, and it was a real cultural moment.
• 33:24
  SPEAKER_01: Uh but yeah, I did see some newspaper articles about how Qatar is paying for fake fans, and I thought it was absolutely ridiculous because uh a country is paying for their people to go watch their team in the World Cup, which is the first ever World Cup that their country technically qualified for, because last time they didn't have to qualify, right?
• 33:45
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 33:45
  SPEAKER_01: So it is a and when they they tied Switzerland, which I still think they should have won that game, which is amazing.
• 33:52
  SPEAKER_01: And and uh I got a lot of uh hatred from my Canadian friends because I was cheering for Qatar during the Canada and Qatar game.
• 34:01
  SPEAKER_01: Uh which which unfortunately ended up poorly for Qatar.
• 34:07
  SPEAKER_01: So for my passport it was okay, but for for where I live it wasn't.
• 34:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 34:14
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I think the right team won in the end, didn't it?
• 34:16
  SPEAKER_00: But uh anyway, Daniel, listen, thank you so much for uh again for taking the time and uh hopefully we can uh have you back on the pod as um as things develop.
• 34:26
  SPEAKER_00: Um good luck in Qatar.
• 34:28
  SPEAKER_00: Well I hope to see you in Qatar uh one of these days um when normalcy will be.
• 34:33
  SPEAKER_00: Please come.
• 34:33
  SPEAKER_01: We're waiting for you.
• 34:34
  SPEAKER_01: We're waiting for you, and hopefully see you soon.
• 34:37
  SPEAKER_01: If not, I'm sure we'll find each other somewhere in the world, and thank you for having me.
• 34:41
  SPEAKER_01: Always uh happy to discuss and let's see how the situation upholds.
• 34:46
  SPEAKER_01: You know, uh hoping for the best, but prepared for the worst.
• 34:50
  SPEAKER_00: For sure.
• 34:51
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much.
• 34:54
  unknown: Let's deal with the bad.