Latest / The Wisdom Trust Podcast for Gay Men 50+ / Feeling Stuck After 50? Find What Makes You Feel Alive

Transcript

Feeling Stuck After 50? Find What Makes You Feel Alive · The Wisdom Trust Podcast for Gay Men 50+

0:00
SPEAKER_00: Welcome to the Wisdom Trust.
0:02
SPEAKER_00: I'm Lauren Crawford.
0:03
SPEAKER_00: This podcast is for gay men over 50 who sense there's more to this stage of life than we've been taught.
0:09
SPEAKER_00: More connection, meaning, honesty, and possibility.
0:12
SPEAKER_00: Each episode is a conversation with a thoughtful gay man who's navigating the deeper questions that often emerge in the second half of life.
0:20
SPEAKER_00: Aging, identity, purpose, belonging, reinvention, community, love, and living consciously.
0:26
SPEAKER_00: These are not conversations about decline, they are conversations about becoming.
0:30
SPEAKER_00: I'm glad you're here.
0:33
SPEAKER_00: Hi there and welcome to another episode of The Wisdom Trust.
0:36
SPEAKER_00: Today I'm blessed with the presence of Peter Langlois, and we will be introducing him in just a moment.
0:43
SPEAKER_00: Before I do that, what I would like to remind you of is we are here having conversations with gay men over 50 who are leading their lives.
0:53
SPEAKER_00: They've had some challenges, they've had some successes.
0:57
SPEAKER_00: They're not having it all figured out.
0:59
SPEAKER_00: We're not talking to celebrities here.
1:01
SPEAKER_00: We're sharing these stories and these journeys for inspiration.
1:04
SPEAKER_00: For those of you who might be struggling a little bit and wondering, hmm, what's the next stage going to look like?
1:09
SPEAKER_00: Well, maybe you'll glean something from what Peter shares with us.
1:12
SPEAKER_00: Let me tell you a little bit about Peter.
1:14
SPEAKER_00: So he grew up in Ottawa, Canada, where I recently lived for 25 years.
1:19
SPEAKER_00: And for the last 30 years, he's lived in Austin, Texas.
1:22
SPEAKER_00: And the most memorable job was a bartender on an island in the Greater Barrier Reef in Australia.
1:29
SPEAKER_00: Well, you're going to have to share a little bit about that, my friend.
1:31
SPEAKER_00: And the longest job was working for as an epidemiologist with the Texas Health Department.
1:37
SPEAKER_00: He retired from that a few years ago and is now spending most of his time growing a business, Austin Passion Test.
1:44
SPEAKER_00: That sounds interesting.
1:46
SPEAKER_00: We'll learn about that, I'm sure.
1:48
SPEAKER_00: He came out in his late 20s, and the next 40 years, he spent happily single, dabbling with boyfriends here and there.
1:55
SPEAKER_00: I can relate, brother.
1:56
SPEAKER_00: And he likes to travel and curl up on a couch with a guy to watch a good science fiction or fantasy movie.
2:02
SPEAKER_00: I don't have that experience, but good for you if that's happened.
2:06
SPEAKER_00: So let's hear a little bit more about who is this Peter fellow?
2:11
SPEAKER_00: So, what's your life looking like right now?
2:14
SPEAKER_01: It's actually great.
2:16
SPEAKER_01: I'm busy, busier than I remember being back when I worked.
2:21
SPEAKER_01: But I'm doing stuff that I generally like and that nobody tells me to do.
2:26
SPEAKER_01: So I really like that.
2:27
SPEAKER_01: And what that's involved with lately is, as you mentioned, trying to grow my business, Austin Passion Test.
2:35
SPEAKER_01: But I've gone through a bit of a reconsideration of whether I want to keep doing that or not.
2:41
SPEAKER_01: This has been about a six-month journey because early last fall I realized I could not get myself motivated to do anything with it.
2:51
SPEAKER_01: And that was because what I needed to do is marketing.
2:54
SPEAKER_01: And boy, Lauren, I hate marketing.
2:58
SPEAKER_01: So I've got some strategies since then that I'm working on, and uh, we'll see where it goes.
3:04
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
3:05
SPEAKER_00: So that's the business side of things.
3:06
SPEAKER_00: What about the curling up on the couch stuff?
3:09
SPEAKER_01: Well, I even though that's something I said I love doing, I haven't had much of an opportunity to do that specific thing.
3:17
SPEAKER_01: What I do though is I have about three, four different groups of friends who we like getting together periodically, about once a month or so for dinner and a movie.
3:29
SPEAKER_01: And we rotate houses who's hosting for the dinner in the movie.
3:34
SPEAKER_01: Lovely.
3:35
SPEAKER_01: Four groups.
3:36
SPEAKER_01: That means I end up doing that about once a week.
3:39
SPEAKER_01: And then I'm also pretty active in a social group here for older gay and bi men called Austin Primetimers.
3:48
SPEAKER_01: It's part of the International Primetimer Group.
3:52
SPEAKER_01: And they're really busy here.
3:54
SPEAKER_01: I mean, it's it's really fortunate that we always have about 25 to 35 activities every month.
4:03
SPEAKER_01: And so there's a lot to choose from.
4:05
SPEAKER_01: And so that keeps me busy too.
4:07
SPEAKER_00: That's absolutely amazing.
4:09
SPEAKER_00: Like so you have lots on your plate on the social agenda front.
4:13
SPEAKER_00: And I suspect that after this, you might be getting some calls about cuddling on the couch and watching a movie.
4:21
SPEAKER_00: Yay.
4:23
SPEAKER_00: Let's make that one of our agendas here.
4:28
SPEAKER_00: So you had this long career in in epidemiology and wonderful.
4:35
SPEAKER_00: And and and then you you you left that to move into another stage of life.
4:41
SPEAKER_00: So let's look at that as the pivot that we're we're kind of focusing on a little bit in these conversations.
4:47
SPEAKER_00: So a little bit of a shift there.
4:50
SPEAKER_00: And you can tell us here a little bit about what it is that you're actually doing with this passion project of yours.
4:59
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
5:00
SPEAKER_01: What I'm actually doing now is I'm certified in a process that helps people kind of get more clear on what brings their life join, meaning their passions.
5:12
SPEAKER_01: And I do that either through one-on-one sessions, where I have two of them, typically a week apart, and the workshops.
5:21
SPEAKER_01: What I'm trying to do really is grow the workshop portion of that because I'm just not making very much money on the one-on-one sessions.
5:30
SPEAKER_01: Also, the workshops are more energizing.
5:33
SPEAKER_01: I love both of them, but the workshops are more energizing.
5:37
SPEAKER_01: The problem is I keep doing workshops for free.
5:40
SPEAKER_01: So that's not ending up making money any either way.
5:44
SPEAKER_01: So that's part of my figuring out right now.
5:47
SPEAKER_00: The figuring out process.
5:49
SPEAKER_00: Been there working through that.
5:51
SPEAKER_00: And I agree, part of the the thrust behind the wisdom trust and starting these podcasts and building our community around that is the very thing you're talking about.
6:00
SPEAKER_00: When we come together and we share our experiences and our and our journeys, there's something really rewarding in that, that the one-on-one stuff just can't reach.
6:11
SPEAKER_00: There's there's certainly a place for one-on-one.
6:14
SPEAKER_00: But I'm I'm with you.
6:15
SPEAKER_00: I like the the energy and the dynamism around collective, right?
6:20
SPEAKER_00: And and I'm seeing this as a bit of a movement forward.
6:24
SPEAKER_00: And, you know, there'll be opportunities for you to reach folks in this community as well, with some of the lovely work you're doing.
6:31
SPEAKER_00: So tell us about typically what might that look like and maybe start with yourself in terms of why did you why did you explore this and get certified in it, and then maybe share a little bit about what it can uh look like with with a client, for example.
6:47
SPEAKER_01: Sure.
6:48
SPEAKER_01: Um so let's time travel back about maybe 16 years, 17 years, where I was working as an epidemiologist, and I I really loved my day job.
7:01
SPEAKER_01: I want to be very upfront about that.
7:03
SPEAKER_01: But in my spare time, I found I was taking more and more time to gamble.
7:11
SPEAKER_01: I mean, let's be honest.
7:12
SPEAKER_01: I think I was addicted to gambling.
7:16
SPEAKER_01: But the way I did it was on the stock market.
7:21
SPEAKER_01: And I know some people make very good livings on the stock market, and it's very legitimate, but I'm not one of those people who made a lot of money on the stock market.
7:33
SPEAKER_01: And in fact, after a particularly bad week, after a particularly bad month where I lost a lot of money, I just kind of had a come to Jesus moment and realized that, oh my God, I'm spending three hours every weekday night analyzing charts to see what I should invest in.
7:57
SPEAKER_01: And probably six to eight hours every weekend doing the same thing.
8:03
SPEAKER_01: And I just said, this is bullshit.
8:06
SPEAKER_01: You know, I don't I don't want to keep doing this, or why am I doing this?
8:09
SPEAKER_01: Because I'm not making money anyway.
8:11
SPEAKER_01: So I just decided that wasn't for me.
8:15
SPEAKER_01: And it was very liberating and very depressing at the same time.
8:23
SPEAKER_01: But of course, the consequence was that I had all this time that had opened up.
8:28
SPEAKER_01: And while nowadays I dream of that, back then it was like, ugh, what am I gonna do?
8:36
SPEAKER_01: So I was kind of wallowing in this self-pity and and feeling lost.
8:42
SPEAKER_01: And then it seemed like out of the blue, I got this invitation via email to take an online six-week course uh on finding your purpose.
8:57
SPEAKER_01: And I thought, well, okay, I'm feeling pretty lost anyway.
9:00
SPEAKER_01: Well, why not take that course?
9:03
SPEAKER_01: It was a great course, and the main reason I took it was A, because it was free, B, because I'd lots of spare time, and C, because the emails seemed to be affiliated with a group that I was pretty involved with at the time called the Mankind Project.
9:20
SPEAKER_01: Right.
9:21
SPEAKER_01: So I thought it was legitimate.
9:23
SPEAKER_01: Anyway, I took the course, loved it, learned a lot of stuff.
9:27
SPEAKER_01: But one of those weeks in particular was a free one-hour session with a certified passion test facilitator.
9:34
SPEAKER_01: And I loved it, it was so cool.
9:37
SPEAKER_01: I got out of there, I was so excited.
9:40
SPEAKER_01: Oh my gosh, I know you can see that.
9:43
SPEAKER_01: Yes, I mean it really was like a light bulb going off.
9:47
SPEAKER_00: Beautiful.
9:47
SPEAKER_00: And so tell me, I think this is very interesting and telling when you had extracted yourself from all of those hours analyzing the stock market and realizing you were the cost-benefit payoff just wasn't there.
10:01
SPEAKER_00: And it is for some people, clearly, right?
10:03
SPEAKER_00: I would argue the m minority, but it is what it is, right?
10:08
SPEAKER_00: We make our choices.
10:09
SPEAKER_00: Were you ruminating, reflecting, thinking about what's next?
10:13
SPEAKER_00: Like, were you putting that energy out there about what's next?
10:16
SPEAKER_00: But when all of a sudden that email landed in your in your inbox.
10:22
SPEAKER_01: It was a variation of what's next.
10:25
SPEAKER_01: It was more like what what now?
10:28
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
10:29
SPEAKER_01: It was more immediate.
10:30
SPEAKER_01: It wasn't like in the future.
10:32
SPEAKER_01: It was like, oh my gosh, what am I gonna do?
10:35
SPEAKER_00: Either way, I'm really uh a strong believer in this.
10:39
SPEAKER_00: And and I and I think, and this is a recurring theme in some of these conversations, right?
10:44
SPEAKER_00: When we put energy out there around the thing about what am I gonna do now and all that, but when when we start to sort of pull some of that energy in, stuff will start to show up.
10:57
SPEAKER_00: But if we're too unfocused or receptive, I think receptivity is a big part of it.
11:03
SPEAKER_00: Like you could have looked at that email and went, dismiss for whatever reason, but you didn't.
11:08
SPEAKER_00: And so I think this is sometimes when people are in post-50 stages.
11:13
SPEAKER_00: You know, I've been coaching midlife men for a number of years now.
11:17
SPEAKER_00: There are things that come into our pathways that we're not always paying attention to.
11:22
SPEAKER_00: So I'm a big proponent of when you're driving down the road and that thought drops into your head and you kind of go like, oh, that's interesting.
11:30
SPEAKER_00: And then you immediately dismiss it because the rational mind says, you could never do that.
11:34
SPEAKER_00: That's not, that's not even feasible.
11:36
SPEAKER_00: Why did that thought drop into your head?
11:39
SPEAKER_00: And I'm doing this because I'm like, it came from something bigger than you.
11:43
SPEAKER_00: It came from the higher version of you, if you will.
11:46
SPEAKER_00: But but we we will so often dismiss things because we've got our gotten ourselves into that little box of who we think we are.
11:54
SPEAKER_00: So kudos to you for a opening the email, showing up to the thing, and then having this hour-long session that shifted your whole energy and your focus.
12:04
SPEAKER_00: So, what happened next?
12:06
SPEAKER_01: Just before I get to what happened next, if I may, what you're saying reminds me of the saying when the student is ready, the teacher will appear.
12:16
SPEAKER_01: And so I'm totally with you on that.
12:19
SPEAKER_01: Always, yeah.
12:20
SPEAKER_01: Um so that I had this great idea and I knew how to fill up my spare time now, and it was very practical.
12:28
SPEAKER_01: From time to time, from time a friend or a colleague or something might happen to say in conversation, gosh, you know, I'm I just retired and I'm not really sure what to do with my time.
12:43
SPEAKER_01: And I would go, I know exactly what to do.
12:48
SPEAKER_01: And so I would try to take them through the passion test with varying results, you know, and some not so good, some pretty good.
12:57
SPEAKER_01: But of course, I wasn't trained in it.
12:59
SPEAKER_01: So lo and behold, about maybe a couple of months later, I got this email seemingly out of the blue, saying, Hey, have you considered becoming a passion test facilitator?
13:12
SPEAKER_01: And I thought, well, no, I haven't, but this is a really cool idea.
13:17
SPEAKER_01: So I looked into it, I applied for the training program and got certified eventually, and that started this business.
13:25
SPEAKER_00: Beautiful, beautiful.
13:27
SPEAKER_00: So tell us about you know, the folks you've worked with and a little bit about their journeys and the outcomes, the the shifts that they they've experienced.
13:37
SPEAKER_01: It's really across the board.
13:41
SPEAKER_01: Always is.
13:42
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you know, that's a really good point.
13:45
SPEAKER_01: I mean, I've had some people that were in kind of nine to five jobs and they felt like they were stuck, they wanted an idea of where to go, but they weren't even sure where to start.
14:00
SPEAKER_01: So I was very clear with that I can help you identify the kinds of things you would like to do and what gives you energy.
14:10
SPEAKER_01: Um, but I'm not a career coach, and so I'll take you so far.
14:14
SPEAKER_01: And once you have some ideas, then maybe contact somebody who's more well-versed in resumes and stuff like that.
14:21
SPEAKER_01: I've had a lot of people who were reminded of ideas that they had given up.
14:32
SPEAKER_01: Yes, and that's what really struck me actually.
14:35
SPEAKER_01: So I I had a colleague who's uh who was a professor, quite well well respected, very successful, blah, blah, blah, blah.
14:44
SPEAKER_01: And and I and she wanted to go through the passion test.
14:48
SPEAKER_01: And so as I took her through, one of the things she thought of was when she was a teenager, she always wanted to be in a band.
14:58
SPEAKER_01: And I said, when we were discussing this and going through the process, I said, Marcia, it's never too late.
15:05
SPEAKER_01: You know, you might not go to Hollywood or something, but could still have a lot of fun in a band and singing and you know, expressing your musical abilities.
15:17
SPEAKER_01: And so she really liked that, and that turned into one of her passions.
15:21
SPEAKER_01: And I need to follow up on where that led for her.
15:25
SPEAKER_01: Another person, a good friend of mine.
15:28
SPEAKER_01: I think he only went through the passion test to support me and because I was so keen about it when I started this job.
15:35
SPEAKER_01: But you know, bless his heart, and I think that was great.
15:39
SPEAKER_01: Anyway, one of his passions turned out to be speaking on the radio.
15:45
SPEAKER_01: And he and he just abandoned it because he's real busy working for the company he worked with as an engineer.
15:53
SPEAKER_01: Anyway, he retired and he remembered this passion and looked into community radio, and he became trained as as an a sound engineer for the community radio station here.
16:08
SPEAKER_01: And he went on to develop programs and he he loved it.
16:12
SPEAKER_01: He was doing that for years and years.
16:14
SPEAKER_01: And now he's moved away uh into to the state of Washington.
16:20
SPEAKER_01: And I think he's hooked up with the community radio station there, although I don't know how much he does with them.
16:26
SPEAKER_00: That's so great.
16:27
SPEAKER_00: And here again, I think this is such a powerful message because, yeah, for our 20s, our 30s, our 40s, a lot of us ended up in careers.
16:35
SPEAKER_00: You loved your career, that's amazing.
16:37
SPEAKER_00: A lot of us show up for our careers.
16:39
SPEAKER_00: We the love goes away after maybe a few years, like it did for me.
16:43
SPEAKER_00: And and then so we arrive at this place, and it's like, well, what it like I love the word passion because I think that that's so cool.
16:51
SPEAKER_00: You know, the work that I've done is, you know, mental fitness and purpose, coach.
16:56
SPEAKER_00: That's the purpose side of things.
16:58
SPEAKER_00: Like, who and what are we and where are we going and who are we becoming, all of that stuff.
17:03
SPEAKER_00: But the the point I wanted to make is there's so much potential of things that, like you said, we we were already reflecting on or thinking about as younger, our our younger versions of ourselves.
17:16
SPEAKER_00: But there may be other things too that are deep inside of us that we're not necessarily plugging into.
17:23
SPEAKER_00: So we'll compare notes someday to see what the tools in in the passion test, or I'll do the passion test and find out, are relative to some of the things that I've been trained in and used over the years.
17:35
SPEAKER_00: Because when we tap in at that level, that's what makes life feel a lot more fulfilling.
17:42
SPEAKER_00: You know, we show up for careers, we show up to pay the mortgage, we show up to put the kids through college, we show up to our 401ks, that's what they're called in the US, right?
17:52
SPEAKER_00: Or yeah.
17:53
SPEAKER_00: Uh here it's our, you know, our keys or whatever, you know, and we do all of that stuff uh out of duty and obligation, and and hopefully we like our or potentially even love what we do, but a lot of us don't.
18:08
SPEAKER_00: And even if we do, there's a fatigue that weighs in at a certain point, and it's time for a shift and a change.
18:14
SPEAKER_00: So moving into the next stage of life can actually be quite powerful and exciting.
18:20
SPEAKER_00: So when you when you did this and you you started to shift and you did this work, it lit you up even when you talked about it here a minute ago.
18:28
SPEAKER_00: So, what did that kind of give you freedom from?
18:31
SPEAKER_00: Something that you were able to let go of that was maybe holding you a little bit in a certain pattern or a way of being.
18:40
SPEAKER_01: So initially, I think it helped me let go of what I consider now to be a gambling addiction on the stock market.
18:50
SPEAKER_01: Kind of consequent to that, it let me let go of or gave me freedom from feeling lost, feeling like I had no direction, feeling like I had so much spare time that I didn't know what to do with.
19:07
SPEAKER_01: And I enjoy keeping really busy, and so that was just very, very foreign to me.
19:17
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
19:17
SPEAKER_01: So that was mainly the freedom from, I think.
19:21
SPEAKER_00: Nice, nice.
19:23
SPEAKER_00: And and when you were able to a like addiction is challenging, right?
19:29
SPEAKER_00: Because the first step always is is just the admitting the the awareness and the and the sort of acknowledging and then and then taking the next steps, right?
19:38
SPEAKER_00: But but when that when that occurred and you've you've like you talked about it as you know, not a lot to do, or it's sort of like a hollowing out almost of of this thing that's taken up so much of your life.
19:51
SPEAKER_00: And then what?
19:52
SPEAKER_00: Tell us how that feels because there may be people listening or watching who are going through something right now, like it could be porn, you know, it it maybe it's uh their relationship to alcohol or something like this.
20:05
SPEAKER_00: Yours was the stock market.
20:06
SPEAKER_00: So if we have some of these tendencies to be a little bit overly attached slash addicted to certain behaviors, walk us through a little bit more if you if you don't mind.
20:18
SPEAKER_00: What that just that navigating that path to get to the next spot.
20:25
SPEAKER_01: Navigating the path of giving up the addiction?
20:30
SPEAKER_01: Well, for me, and there are probably many paths, but for me, it was kind of a hitting bottom.
20:40
SPEAKER_01: It was a crisis where I just realized that A, I suck at making money in the stock market, and B, I am spending way too much time.
20:55
SPEAKER_01: And you know, along with that, I think I had an identity kind of mixed up in there, sort of like, oh, I'm a stock market investor.
21:07
SPEAKER_01: Look at me, you know.
21:10
SPEAKER_01: So yeah, I gave all that up, and and like I said, it was kind of scary and depressing and deliberating at the same time.
21:19
SPEAKER_00: Did that answer your question?
21:21
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, very much so.
21:22
SPEAKER_00: Because there's like what you just described at the very end there, it's like this cocktail of uncomfortableness that none of us like.
21:32
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you know, and so when when we're in our own mind kind of negotiating or navigating what some change might look like.
21:41
SPEAKER_00: And this, I you know, I see this in the coaching world.
21:44
SPEAKER_00: Like people can recognize, eh, there's some shifting, but it's like staying where you are in the familiar, in what's comfortable, can often be the choice because the pain of change is just so freaky.
21:58
SPEAKER_00: And it's like, I don't want to do that.
22:00
SPEAKER_00: Not ready to do that.
22:01
SPEAKER_00: You're ready to do that when when the discomfort, you use the word, you know, hitting bottom, you what when that happens.
22:08
SPEAKER_00: But the message to folks maybe listening to this, and some of you who have done work on things already, you don't have to wait for that rock bottom moment.
22:18
SPEAKER_00: Like if there's something in you that's sort of compelling you right now, uh, you know, maybe take the step now instead of the ongoing delay and sticking in the familiar, even if the familiar is kind of making you miserable, the pain of change, you have to get through it, right?
22:34
SPEAKER_00: Like the only way to is through, as they say.
22:37
SPEAKER_00: So you have to do some of that work, you know, to get to get to the other side.
22:42
SPEAKER_00: So when you do that and you've done that and you're helping clients kind of see some clarity and passion in their lives, what does that free up for you to to to step into?
22:53
SPEAKER_00: What sort of powers do you find in yourself when when you step away from something and move into something else?
23:01
SPEAKER_00: In general, or specifically with my We can start with yours and then maybe maybe more generally too.
23:08
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
23:09
SPEAKER_01: So more specifically in my particular case, since going through the passion test 11, 12 years ago, I am free to decide confidently what I want to do.
23:25
SPEAKER_01: So the outcome of the passion test is to have what's called a passion card where you have your top passions written down.
23:35
SPEAKER_01: And so they're always top of mind.
23:37
SPEAKER_01: And whenever I come to a choice, opportunity or decision, I can just go, oh, does it correspond to these?
23:44
SPEAKER_01: And if it does, then I do it.
23:46
SPEAKER_01: And if I don't, I don't.
23:48
SPEAKER_01: And for me, a very uncomfortable place is not knowing what to do.
23:54
SPEAKER_01: And so I like having an idea at least, or an area of what to do.
24:00
SPEAKER_01: So for example, I even have talking about visuals.
24:04
SPEAKER_01: So I have a passion card at the bottom taped to the bottom of my monitor, and it's right here.
24:11
SPEAKER_01: Beautiful, beautiful.
24:14
SPEAKER_01: So anyway, so I like I like basically knowing what to do.
24:20
SPEAKER_01: And I and I change it from time to time, and that's cool too.
24:25
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
24:26
SPEAKER_00: It sounds like that's very much, you know, you do the work, that initial assessment test, and and then, and then that becomes sort of a framework, if you will, if you want to use that language, uh, guideposts for for for how you how you move forward.
24:41
SPEAKER_00: And I think the the great thing about that too is what's going on up here, these neural pathways are so deep.
24:49
SPEAKER_00: And and and a lot of this unconscious living that we do, which is 95% of the time, uh unless we're doing real things really concretely to change some of that, it it's gonna be hardwired to not want to change, right?
25:03
SPEAKER_00: To stay in that in that mode of the familiar.
25:06
SPEAKER_00: So that's amazing that that you have these this tool and this technique to this.
25:12
SPEAKER_00: Well, am I gonna do this?
25:14
SPEAKER_00: Well, let me reflect on my primary passion.
25:17
SPEAKER_00: And it's like, no, I'm not gonna do that because it doesn't align.
25:20
SPEAKER_00: That's amazing.
25:21
SPEAKER_00: That's so amazing.
25:22
SPEAKER_01: It is amazing and it's simple.
25:24
SPEAKER_01: That's why I like it.
25:27
SPEAKER_00: And that's that's it.
25:30
SPEAKER_00: So much of some of this work can be simple, and yet we have this way of overcomplicating things.
25:37
SPEAKER_00: Like I still teach a little bit of yoga, and I I always say like the simplest classes are sometimes the most profound.
25:45
SPEAKER_00: But what we what we've tended to got gotten into in this in the Western approach to to physical yoga is fancifying and making it inaccessible to a lot of people.
25:56
SPEAKER_00: When in fact, you can do really simple movements connected to the breath and building that awareness, which is amazing in terms of its impact.
26:06
SPEAKER_00: Find the wisdom trust on schoolschool.com slash the dash wisdom dash trust slash about.
26:15
SPEAKER_00: Website is wisdom trust50.com.
26:18
SPEAKER_00: Find us on Substack, the WisdomTrust.substack.com.
26:23
SPEAKER_00: And if you're not watching this on YouTube, youtube.com slash at the Wisdom Trust 50.
26:30
SPEAKER_00: See you on those platforms.
26:36
SPEAKER_00: So let's step back then and go a little bit broader in terms of so you just shared with us your own uh example of what this provides freedom to or how it empowers you and helps you to grow.
26:49
SPEAKER_00: More generally, what what do you see when people do this work?
26:54
SPEAKER_01: I see them give themselves permission to pursue things that they may have abandoned or may have considered and put to the side.
27:14
SPEAKER_01: But having a structure like this gives them permission to actually pursue those things.
27:20
SPEAKER_01: I think that can be very powerful for some people.
27:24
SPEAKER_01: And can I say something else that what you just said reminded me of?
27:29
SPEAKER_01: So I was fortunate enough in the last couple of months to attend a fantastic workshop at the Modern Elder Academy.
27:38
SPEAKER_01: Have you ever heard of them?
27:40
SPEAKER_01: Yes, great institution.
27:44
SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah, he's he's awesome.
27:47
SPEAKER_01: Anyway, so part of the title of this four-day workshop was what do I want to do with the rest of my life?
27:56
SPEAKER_01: Or what should I do with the rest of my life?
27:58
SPEAKER_01: And you know, Lauren, the irony of this is not lost on me that I have this passion test to help people figure out what to do with the rest of their lives.
28:08
SPEAKER_01: And then I'm in a workshop to do the same thing.
28:11
SPEAKER_01: But there were two main reasons that I took it.
28:14
SPEAKER_01: Primarily because, like I said, last fall, I was at a kind of a crossing point because I hated marketing so much, I thought I might abandon the whole idea of doing the passion test business.
28:29
SPEAKER_01: Then this thing popped up.
28:31
SPEAKER_01: I saw this and I signed up for it.
28:33
SPEAKER_01: But the other thing was too that I thought maybe I could learn some additional tools if I decided to keep doing the passion test.
28:43
SPEAKER_01: Because, you know, I think people learn from each other and they package them different ways, these ideas and concepts and stuff.
28:49
SPEAKER_01: So, can I share just one very quick tool that I learned that I love?
28:54
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
28:55
SPEAKER_00: And just on your point, like there are no original thoughts.
28:58
SPEAKER_00: All these thoughts come from source, they're just packaged differently by different people.
29:02
SPEAKER_00: Okay, go for it.
29:03
SPEAKER_01: That's interesting.
29:05
SPEAKER_01: So, this uh workshop leader, it was co-led by Chip Conley, who you mentioned, one of the founders of MEA, and a guy named Dan Pink or Daniel Pink, who does a lot of podcasts and books and stuff.
29:18
SPEAKER_01: Anyway, Mr.
29:19
SPEAKER_01: Pink said that most younger adults, when we talk about regrets, most younger adults regret things they've done.
29:30
SPEAKER_01: And most older adults regret things they haven't done.
29:35
SPEAKER_01: Two points come from that.
29:37
SPEAKER_01: One is where those two cross, we call that the midlife crisis, which I thought is an interesting way to define it.
29:46
SPEAKER_01: But the other thing is for most people who are an older adult, which is anywhere after 40, 50 or whatever, the the punchline is don't wait, do it.
29:59
SPEAKER_01: Just try it, you know?
30:02
unknown: Yeah.
30:03
SPEAKER_00: What are you waiting for?
30:04
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
30:04
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
30:05
SPEAKER_00: And and you know, having done this work for a few years, the the whole midlife crisis thing is kind of uh interesting, right?
30:11
SPEAKER_00: Because it's almost a cliche.
30:13
SPEAKER_00: So when you did this, what what I think of is the crossroads, like it's a crossroads to the next stage, and it can leave a lot of us really perplexed and a little bit lost.
30:23
SPEAKER_00: And I've I talk about this a lot.
30:26
SPEAKER_00: Like it's to me, it's it's it's much deeper than a lot of the the psychological and mental kind of reflection stuff that we do.
30:35
SPEAKER_00: It's more of a deep soul connection, a deeper connection to who we are.
30:41
SPEAKER_00: Again, that word at source, if you want to use that.
30:44
SPEAKER_00: But you know, there's these levels of our beingness, right?
30:47
SPEAKER_00: And there's the intellectual cerebral, got all the certificates, know all the things, blah, blah, blah, you know, can make all the money doing this, that, and the other thing.
30:54
SPEAKER_00: And then there's a this alignment where our soul is, you know, showing up at the table and kind of giving us these insights into maybe think of this, maybe, you know, open that email because there might be something in there that changes your life, right?
31:09
SPEAKER_00: That this the soul wants a seat at the table, so to speak.
31:12
SPEAKER_00: And when that happens, that's when the real magic occurs.
31:16
SPEAKER_00: And that the the elder, the academy there is really great at what we're doing here at the Wisdom Trust as well.
31:23
SPEAKER_00: We're focusing on gay men.
31:25
SPEAKER_00: They're they're more broad in general and price a little bit pricey, but is is having those same conversations, but in community, right?
31:35
SPEAKER_00: And doing more of that.
31:37
SPEAKER_00: And you watch, brother, you and I will be doing some workshops at some point in the near future in trust, which people will be, you know, clamoring to get into.
31:48
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
31:48
SPEAKER_00: So there you go.
31:51
SPEAKER_01: And I I don't know if you're serious or not, but I would love to do that.
31:55
SPEAKER_00: Oh, absolutely.
31:56
SPEAKER_00: This is about community and it's about sharing our who and what we are and and how we can, you know, be of service to others, yeah, for sure.
32:05
SPEAKER_00: So, okay, so all of this is is moving forward, and you're in this new stage in life.
32:10
SPEAKER_00: It sounds like now you're you're a bit reconnected to to moving forward with it, if am I correct?
32:16
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
32:17
SPEAKER_00: So how how are you?
32:19
SPEAKER_00: I'm using this term leveling up, but how are you finding the energy, the, the, the, the will, the drive to do this?
32:27
SPEAKER_00: So you you went to that you know workshop and that kind of gave you a little bit more sort of insight.
32:32
SPEAKER_00: What else are you doing that's sort of motivating you and inspiring you?
32:37
SPEAKER_00: And that can be pertaining to the the work, but also just pertaining to you and your life right now.
32:43
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
32:49
SPEAKER_01: So a little bit of context.
32:52
SPEAKER_01: I have always enjoyed working on my own, I think, because I, to be honest, you know, between you and me and the thousands of people watching this, millions of people listening.
33:08
SPEAKER_01: Millions of people.
33:10
SPEAKER_01: I found it hard to grow to trust people.
33:14
SPEAKER_01: And so I like working on my own.
33:16
SPEAKER_01: I don't like relying on other people.
33:18
SPEAKER_01: This may explain why I've been single most of my life.
33:22
SPEAKER_01: Hello.
33:23
SPEAKER_01: But anyway, I think one of the ways I'm leveling up is opening up to more people and maybe partnering with them.
33:36
SPEAKER_01: So I've looked into getting someone to help me with marketing.
33:41
SPEAKER_01: I'm actually getting responses from a couple of different marketing consultants here in Austin.
33:47
SPEAKER_01: You turned me on to an excellent business coach who I just get so excited every time I talk with them.
33:55
SPEAKER_01: So thank you so much for that.
33:58
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, just trying to loosen up a bit about working with other people.
34:04
SPEAKER_00: You may have, I'm gonna throw a little bit of the mental fitness positive intelligence terminology at you, but I think you'll relate because I think you and I are similar in many ways.
34:15
SPEAKER_00: We have these voices in our head, we'll say, and we can ascribe to them titles of saboteurs.
34:22
SPEAKER_00: So we have a main judge who's always like nitnitty, nitpicking everything that we do, what others do, what the situations are, judge, judge, judge, right?
34:32
SPEAKER_00: And then we have its nine accomplices.
34:34
SPEAKER_00: And the one that can be really insidious for some of us is the hyperachiever.
34:39
SPEAKER_00: And the hyperachiever, it's like, isn't that a good thing?
34:41
SPEAKER_00: You want to achieve a lot in this scapula society where we're supposed to amass all this wealth and be spectacular?
34:47
SPEAKER_00: Well, maybe, but the the way it plays out is, you know, we're really good at our careers, and then we do other things on top of that, like become, you know, three hours a night, eight hours over the weekend analyzing stock market data, because we're we're we're achieving and we're doing, we're, we're trying to be the best at what we can be.
35:06
SPEAKER_00: What ends up happening in that, that, that, with that saboteur is all of our self-worth and self-love gets conditioned, is conditional, conditional upon how much we're quote unquote achieving.
35:20
SPEAKER_00: And sometimes being busy is is perceived as an achievement, right?
35:24
SPEAKER_00: And that's so at that's at the expense of the relationship to ourselves, but also to relationships with others.
35:32
SPEAKER_00: So I've been there, the busy guy, so busy running a yoga studio, having a career, that I had no time to foster and build deep and meaningful relationships.
35:42
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
35:42
SPEAKER_00: You know, and I'm sure we're not the only ones, Peter.
35:45
SPEAKER_00: Like I, you know, a lot of gay men are probably super hyperachievers just because of what we grew up with and maybe on some level what we're running from.
35:55
SPEAKER_00: You know, no judgment, right?
35:57
SPEAKER_00: Because we're we're all figuring it out.
35:59
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
36:00
SPEAKER_00: But I love that for you that you're now at this stage, because I am too.
36:05
SPEAKER_00: How is it that that you know, I went from what you just described and and was there even just a few months ago, to now having had conversations with dozens of men around building this enterprise, doing these podcasts, and putting a community in making a community come to fruition, that is about, I would say, a healing some of the stuff that many of us maybe don't face or want to address.
36:33
SPEAKER_00: And I'm doing it because I know I have to, making the commitment to be in the energy of trusting, like you were saying, trusting others and knowing that when we show up with an open heart, really nothing can go wrong.
36:49
SPEAKER_00: You know, maybe some of us have been wounded so much, we just have so much armor there.
36:54
SPEAKER_00: But when we open it up, wow, that can be such a liberating and leveling up kind of tool, but it takes work and it's not easy for us guys because we're stuck in our heads analyzing everything and trying to figure everything out.
37:07
SPEAKER_00: Drop into your heart and maybe see what happens.
37:12
SPEAKER_00: So any thoughts on any of that?
37:15
SPEAKER_01: I agree, and it it is exciting and scary at the same time.
37:21
SPEAKER_00: Perfect combination.
37:23
SPEAKER_00: That tension is what moves us forward, right?
37:25
SPEAKER_00: I love that.
37:26
SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
37:28
SPEAKER_00: So tell us a little bit now about how you're having fun.
37:33
SPEAKER_00: You've got these social groups going on.
37:36
SPEAKER_00: That sounds interesting.
37:37
SPEAKER_00: What else is happening that we should know about?
37:41
SPEAKER_00: And fun, you know, can take on a different meaning than it did maybe in our 20s and 30s, right?
37:47
SPEAKER_01: Oh, very, very definitely.
37:50
SPEAKER_01: So besides getting together with people with prime timers, and that includes not only dinners and lunches out, but also things like going to the theater for me.
38:04
SPEAKER_01: That's one of the 25 to 35 things I like doing.
38:09
SPEAKER_01: And we started playing pickleball.
38:11
SPEAKER_01: So I play pickleball with these guys for once or twice a week now, which is great.
38:17
SPEAKER_01: But also one of my uh five passions is uh spending quality time with people I like.
38:23
SPEAKER_01: So besides them, through the prime timers, I'm also very fortunate in having some very, very close friends.
38:32
SPEAKER_01: So I just got together with one for coffee yesterday, and that's one of the other benefits I forgot to mention about being retired.
38:39
SPEAKER_01: I love being able to, you know, say, sure, I'll get together with coffee at three o'clock in the afternoon.
38:46
SPEAKER_01: And then he and his husband are having a pool party on Sunday, and so I'll be going to that.
38:53
SPEAKER_01: So I'd I like doing that.
38:56
SPEAKER_01: I've also mentioned uh dinners and movies with people, some for the prime timers, but now, oh gosh, for at least 12 years, every month or so I get together with this couple for our movie and margarita night.
39:11
SPEAKER_01: And I love doing that.
39:13
SPEAKER_01: And I like just healthier things too, like hiking.
39:17
SPEAKER_01: I love hiking, and we're blessed in the Austin area to be able to get to really nice hiking paths with just like a 15-minute drive.
39:28
SPEAKER_01: And those are, yeah, those are the main things, I think.
39:32
SPEAKER_00: That's a lot, and that's that's amazing.
39:35
SPEAKER_00: Because even with that, I think I don't know about you, but when I was younger, there was sort of like this high bar for what was fun, or you know, like yeah, if you weren't doing X on the weekend, it was like loser, you know, all that stuff.
39:50
SPEAKER_00: And and then I I started to wear that and internalize that because I wasn't the most social person.
39:55
SPEAKER_00: I would put myself out there and try to do that stuff and success or not at times.
39:59
SPEAKER_00: But but then when a shift happened, and it's like, Lauren, you don't need to, you know, force yourself to go to the bars if it's making you uncomfortable.
40:08
SPEAKER_00: And that's what it was doing.
40:10
SPEAKER_00: And I had, you know, pushed myself to do that for for literally for years.
40:15
SPEAKER_00: And then when I deepened my yoga journey, I stopped drinking.
40:18
SPEAKER_00: So now I I really, you know, we're all on our different paths.
40:21
SPEAKER_00: There's no judgment around alcohol consumption, whatever.
40:23
SPEAKER_00: Like we're all on our own paths, right?
40:25
SPEAKER_00: But but I can't find myself in a place where I'm around alcohol, it just doesn't work for me energetically, or or where there's a a lot of loud music.
40:33
SPEAKER_00: So bars and those sort of environments just don't work for me.
40:36
SPEAKER_00: And moving to Vancouver Island, for example, like Austin, it sounds like so many beautiful trails.
40:42
SPEAKER_00: Little, literally, I can go on my bike and find something exceptional or take a drive, you know, an hour away and you're in this majesty.
40:50
SPEAKER_00: It's and that to me is fun, you know, like this the just being embraced by nature and feeling that, you know, a hike I went on the other day after having not done one for a few months, because just life, and I walked into the forest and I just like I literally just I just decompressed and it held me in that moment.
41:14
SPEAKER_00: I was like, holy gosh, like I'd been missing that.
41:19
SPEAKER_00: And so fun can look like a lot of a lot of simple things, but they're very rewarding.
41:27
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think that that's part of the joy in this stage in life, right?
41:30
SPEAKER_00: We don't need to supersize our fun.
41:33
SPEAKER_01: Yes, and I would add to that that, or along the same lines, I suppose, we don't need to base our fun on what other people expect of us.
41:45
SPEAKER_00: Oh my gosh, 100%.
41:46
SPEAKER_00: Thank you for sharing that.
41:48
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and because we're we're just too old for that.
41:53
SPEAKER_01: You know, we're we're fine letting it go.
41:56
SPEAKER_00: Let it go.
41:57
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
41:59
SPEAKER_00: My my mom used to always say, What would your grandma think?
42:04
SPEAKER_00: Conditioned us as kids to be worried about what people were thinking when we can liberate ourselves from that stuff.
42:10
SPEAKER_00: Oh my gosh, yeah.
42:11
SPEAKER_00: So it's so freeing.
42:13
SPEAKER_00: Because we are our grandmothers now.
42:15
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
42:16
SPEAKER_00: So let's let's let's let's give better advice.
42:19
unknown: Yeah.
42:21
SPEAKER_00: Speaking of better advice, this is the wisdom section of the discussion.
42:25
SPEAKER_00: So tell us about what would you what would you like to share with with the folks that are listening or watching?
42:31
SPEAKER_00: A little wisdom nugget, something that they might be able to chew on and that could be helpful for them.
42:39
SPEAKER_01: I'm 69, and I I would have expected to be wiser by this point.
42:46
SPEAKER_01: So I don't feel like I have a lot of wisdom to share, but if if you really pushed me, I think I think I might say don't wait.
42:59
SPEAKER_01: Just try it, you know.
43:01
SPEAKER_01: If if there's something you want to do and there's fear holding you back, I mean, certainly if it's reasonable, you know, like don't wrestle with tigers if your brain is telling you it's a bad idea.
43:16
SPEAKER_00: Don't do this at home, yeah.
43:18
SPEAKER_01: But but most of the things, I'll use eye language, most of the things I've been afraid of are really where I've concocted a lot of possible scenarios that are really unlikely to happen.
43:37
SPEAKER_01: So yeah, I would I would say just try it.
43:43
SPEAKER_00: Just try it.
43:43
SPEAKER_00: That's beautiful.
43:45
SPEAKER_00: And for people like me who who maybe aren't super social or whatever, I I end up doing a lot of things on my own.
43:53
SPEAKER_00: And a lot of people are like, How can you do that?
43:55
SPEAKER_00: How can you go to a movie by yourself or or or go to a restaurant by yourself?
43:58
SPEAKER_00: And it's like, well, because I want to be out there, right?
44:01
SPEAKER_00: And and and it can be easy if we're loners and at this stage in life to really withdraw.
44:08
SPEAKER_00: And that can be one of the heart harshest things for our overall well-being.
44:13
SPEAKER_00: So I would encourage any of you, if you if you've gotten into that place of a little bit maybe of self-isolating by choice and design, maybe look at it, start with having some conversations online, more so.
44:27
SPEAKER_00: But then also what's going on in your community?
44:29
SPEAKER_00: Do you have a prime timer?
44:30
SPEAKER_00: Is you know, I know they're all over North America.
44:33
SPEAKER_00: We've got a chapter here in Victoria.
44:36
SPEAKER_00: So that can be a starting point.
44:38
SPEAKER_00: Uh getting into nature, like all of these things that can that can keep us from, you know, pulling in.
44:46
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
44:47
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
44:48
SPEAKER_01: That's a good point.
44:49
SPEAKER_01: I mean, I've been reading uh in the last couple of years that loneliness has become an epidemic in our society, especially among men, and possibly especially among gay men, because not only are we older, but in my judgment, gay men really place a lot of value on looking beautiful and young.
45:12
SPEAKER_01: And let's face it, I'm not there anymore.
45:16
SPEAKER_01: So and that's okay, you know.
45:19
SPEAKER_00: Well, you're very handsome man, and so I I would argue that.
45:24
SPEAKER_00: But yes, and part of our work here is to change that narrative, right?
45:28
SPEAKER_00: I personally believe that every year is is more exciting because who am I growing into now?
45:34
SPEAKER_00: Like what who am I becoming?
45:36
SPEAKER_00: And and and that again is part of part of the genesis of the wisdom trust is again, like aging is not a bad thing in and of itself.
45:46
SPEAKER_00: And there's so many ways that we can approach it that are rich and beautiful.
45:51
SPEAKER_00: So I'm going to share your website information, which is Austin Passion Test, oneword.com.
46:00
SPEAKER_00: You'll see it on the screen if you're watching.
46:03
SPEAKER_00: So tell us what people will find there.
46:06
SPEAKER_01: So I try to keep it fairly simple.
46:09
SPEAKER_01: There'll be an initial page that they land on that describes the passion test in a brief way and what people should get when they finish it.
46:21
SPEAKER_01: There's a page talking about me that hopefully won't put too many people to sleep.
46:26
SPEAKER_01: There's a page talking about the ways that they can pursue the passion test if they want to take it through me, specifically through the one-on-ones or the uh group workshops.
46:40
SPEAKER_01: And then there's a contact me page.
46:43
SPEAKER_01: I think there's another page with blogs and stuff, but I haven't put anything on there for a while.
46:48
SPEAKER_01: So let's just pretend it's not there for now.
46:51
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
46:52
SPEAKER_00: Well, you'll be able to post this there when it when it goes public.
46:54
SPEAKER_00: That's great.
46:55
SPEAKER_00: So anyone interested in in maybe doing some of that self-discovery work around the passion test, I I'm gonna do it.
47:02
SPEAKER_00: It sounds amazing.
47:04
SPEAKER_00: So thank you for sharing that.
47:06
SPEAKER_00: And thank you for being here.
47:07
SPEAKER_00: I what it what a treat it's been to have this conversation with you.
47:10
SPEAKER_00: And I know that there'll be folks listening and watching where there'll be resonance uh on any or some of these topics that that that and experiences that you've had.
47:20
SPEAKER_00: So thank you for for for being here.
47:24
SPEAKER_01: Thank you.