Latest / NHA Today Podcast / The Plant-Based Blueprint for Aging Well with Vesanto Melina
Transcript
- Stephan Esser MD: Hello and welcome to today's NHA Today podcast. Today I'm thrilled to be joined by Vasanto Molina, who's a registered dietitian, co-author of books that have received top ratings by the American Library Association as the go-to books on plant-based nutrition. Her newest is Plant Powered Seniors, written with Brenda Davis and Dr. Charlene Black. She's written over 15 books, most co-authored with registered dietitian Brenda Davis, including Plant Powered Protein, which reached number one on the Amazon lists. Vesanto Melina: Yeah. Stephan Esser MD: Vasanto has taught nutrition at Seattle's Bastier University and at the University of British Columbia, received the Riley Jeffs Award and the Lifetime Achievement Award as a dietitian. She's lead author of the Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics last position paper on vegetarian diets for the whole life cycle. She's an internationally known speaker, has an amazing background, as you can hear. And it's, you know. So I'm gonna jump right in. First of all, welcome to the podcast. And you know, it sounds like plant-based nutrition is not a new fad for you. How many years have you been living a plant based lifestyle? Vesanto Melina: Well, I turned vegetarian in the late seventies after Diet for a Small Planet came out and and I went to India for four years. And of course Stephan Esser MD: my goodness. Vesanto Melina: it's really normal to be vegetarian in India and you get really good at it. And then I came back and became vegan in nineteen ninety-three when we were writing our first book. without knowing the word vegan, but I did that. Yeah, yeah. So it's about thirty three years vegan now and I'm eight I'm Stephan Esser MD: Wow. Vesanto Melina: eighty four. So when I was about fifty I turned vegan. Yeah. Yeah. Stephan Esser MD: Wow. You know, I read in your bio that your father was a researcher and your mother Vesanto Melina: Yeah. Stephan Esser MD: an excellent chef. Did you grow up with a love for food and knowledge, or was it something that just slowly built over time? Vesanto Melina: Well, my dad actually worked with Best in Banting and at the University of Toronto the Nobel Prize for Insulin, you know, and and that was Stephan Esser MD: Amazing. Vesanto Melina: a long time ago. So he was then a cancer researcher and diabetes researcher. And so I had that, like, you know, I'd go down to his lab and all that stuff. And then my mom, she also worked at a university but the child study center. So she liked having kids. prepare food. And sh we we always had my birthday parties. Actually they were cookie parties and we'd get to pile on all these sprinklies and stuff. But when my kids were growing up, we had pizza parties. I'd have everything ready and the kids would put them together. And that is really the way to get kids or grandkids to like healthy food. You know, when they get get in there. Even my my son who's in his fifties now, he we went on a T V program when he was one and a half and he managed to put something together. You know, it's just it's so Stephan Esser MD: Huh. Vesanto Melina: good for kids to do that. And Stephan Esser MD: I love it. Making it a party and a celebration. Very Vesanto Melina: Yeah, that's right. Stephan Esser MD: cool. You know, as you discovered your passion in nutrition, you mentioned that you spent some time in India. You know, tell me more about how that living there impacted your approach to food and health. Vesanto Melina: Well, I was in a very academic world and I I wanted to see the other side of things. So I went off to India and I'd made some money on the stock market so I could do that and I just really enjoyed seeing the other side of things, you know, just traveling to Nepal, but seeing what the people were like and and learning just all sorts of things. I just found it so special that I got to it was r going to India was like seeing the exact opposite side of w what humans were. So it was really fun. Stephan Esser MD: Were you already a dietitian at the time? Vesanto Melina: Yeah, I was a dietitian. But I kinda dropped it. Stephan Esser MD: So how did that kind Yeah, I was gonna say when you were there, how did that influence your practice of dietetics when you came back? Vesanto Melina: then when I came back, I realized that we as dieticians hadn't learned anything about vegetarian. I think this this was in the eighties and we kind of had the opinion before, it was a general thing, that vegetarians were kind of hippies that didn't shave their legs and wore sandals and you know, it was like that concept. And I r I realized that it could be a very good way to be. And so I started doing classes through the university and also for dietitians just to learn about vegetarian, exactly how it worked. And in our first book that we wrote, Brandon Davis and I, we wrote a book called Becoming Vegetarian, but it actually was kind of a vegan book because it had a chapter called Without Dairy. And it didn't say dairy was bad, it just said if you don't eat dairy, then here are how you can get the nutrients. Stephan Esser MD: Right. Vesanto Melina: Well Stephan Esser MD: Were you s were you surprised at all? Because if you were trained in a traditional sense of dietetics, were you surprised when you went to India and saw people thriving on on just a plant based approach? Vesanto Melina: Well, yeah, no, it was just I realized how normal it was. And but when we wrote that, the dairy farmers of of Canada came out with a book against our book. And they gave it Stephan Esser MD: I'm sure, right? Vesanto Melina: out across Canada. And I was really upset at that. But our book became a bestseller, so whatever. Yeah, like it. It just helped. Yeah. Stephan Esser MD: Haha, what are you gonna do? That that's right. Now I am curious, you know, so in parts of India, right, there's a lot of doll or the use of lentils, right. And so when you were still, you know, but prior to going there, did you use a lot of lentils in your cooking, et cetera, while in Canada? Or did you, you know, w after being in India, did you start adding different and unique things into your diet that maybe you hadn't prior? Vesanto Melina: Well, it it was when in India when I learned r really the many ways that beans could be used. And of course, legumes, beans, peas, lentils, soy foods are used in every culture around the world. And they're used in different wonderful ways. But that was a very good start. And I start to realize, hey, there's twenty kinds of legumes that we can use, and they could be just used so differently. And they help like older people. you can have things that are soft for your teeth and dental, that kind of thing. For kids you could hide red lentils and tomato sauce if they're not really into exploring that direction. You know, there were just all kinds of options with the legumes. And so I found it very, very interesting. Yeah. Stephan Esser MD: Yeah, it's it's fun. I was actually on YouTube randomly the other day and I watched a whole documentary on lentils. Who knew? Right. There's a whole hour and a half long thing on lentils because they're such a primary calorie source in many parts of the world that I I never realized, you know? So yeah. Vesanto Melina: That's right. Yeah. Yeah. And also some of the protein powders that are used are pea based, where pea's another legume. And so are peanuts, by the way. So Stephan Esser MD: Yeah. Vesanto Melina: we we actually recommend that people get three servings a day of legumes. Bebo goes, Yeah, give me a break. I'm gonna have baked beans three times. But it ends up that you can have like peanut butter on your toast. That's a legume. Stephan Esser MD: Yeah. Right. Vesanto Melina: the the peanut part and you can have soy milk on your cereal so and then you can have tofu at one meal and one of the like nineteen or twenty other legumes for another meal homas dipped you know at lunch or Stephan Esser MD: Right, right. Vesanto Melina: there's just a lot of options here yeah. Stephan Esser MD: Now what are the big health benefits of legumes for us from Vesanto Melina: Okay, well they're huge because legumes are a very good source of protein and the protein doesn't come with a whole pile of fat. one of the things that really frustrates me about North American recommendations on a kind of national level is that we're so much influencing to eat meat, but meat is a probable carcinogen. Stephan Esser MD: Right. Vesanto Melina: And cured meats are convincing carcinogens. And so it's really crazy that we're subsidizing these things so extensively. And you know, then we want health. You know, it's it's just not very smart. Legumes, in contrast, have very, very low levels of fat, the liter like three percent instead, and and foods that we think of as protein foods like cheese. are 75% calories from fat. So there's Stephan Esser MD: Wow. Vesanto Melina: a really and it's not good fats, it's those saturated types of fats, that kind of thing. So it's it's good to start exploring the legumes. Now chickpeas have about 15% calories from fat and soy is in close to meat, sort of like 40%, 50%, 40% really for soy. But it's still lower in fat and it's good kinds of fat. Stephan Esser MD: Right. What I'm hearing from you Vesanto Melina: Yeah. Stephan Esser MD: about the legumes is they have so much variety there, right? We're getting those wonderful proteins, we're getting the fiber. And then also you can choose which type to eat depending upon the amount of fat you're wanting to add, right, to that meal, right, or to your diet Vesanto Melina: There and Stephan Esser MD: in large part. Vesanto Melina: and there's other nutrients too, like there's calcium in calcium tofu and in black and white beans. There's a bit of calcium in other beans too. And there's iron, that really makes a big difference. So people can get their hemoglobin, their ferritin up with eating the legumes and their zinc and all just a lot of B vitamins. So they're they're really very, very valuable. Stephan Esser MD: So those three servings, when you think about that, how what does that come out to in cups? Like if I'm thinking cups of lentils or whatever. Vesanto Melina: it would be like half a cup would be a serving. Yeah. Of it's it's easy to do. Yeah, it is doable. Yeah. Stephan Esser MD: yeah, well that's absol that's totally doable. Right. That's totally doable. Yeah. Vesanto Melina: Yeah. Stephan Esser MD: Now you've written over 15 books, right? And probably more to come. and the most recent one is titled Plant Powered Seniors, which you co-authored Vesanto Melina: Yeah. Stephan Esser MD: with Brenda Davis and Dr. Charlotte Black. You know, Vesanto Melina: Yeah. Stephan Esser MD: tell me what inspired this this most recent book? Vesanto Melina: Well, we actually got older. It's true. Yeah. Stephan Esser MD: What? This is unacceptable. Vesanto Melina: So I'm eighty-four and Stephan Esser MD: Right. Vesanto Melina: Charlotte Black is in her seventies and Brenda's sixty-seven, even though she's a vegan rock star and can do yeah, Stephan Esser MD: She's spring chicken. Yeah. Vesanto Melina: yeah, yeah, exactly. So we and we also are inspired, like that people can get old and they don't have to be focused on caregivers and medications and pain and bedpans and all that stuff, they can actually be healthy towards the end of their lives. And and that's what something I'd like for myself. I actually hope to be 118 and still in fairly good health, you know. And Stephan Esser MD: I love it. Vesanto Melina: you know, we've started to realize from it seems when you're around your sixties things start changing and you could go really downhill and That isn't necessary. Sometimes people think it is necessary. I think sometimes people don't realize that it's like what gas you've got to put the right gas in your car and you gotta put the right fuel in your body. So it Stephan Esser MD: I love it. You know, and what what I love about what you're saying there is right, even as you're aging chronologically though, you're still having great purpose, function, and vitality in your life. I mean, I saw you've got your Vesanto Melina: That's right. Stephan Esser MD: website, you're speaking, you're counseling people, you're writing books for Pete's sake, right? I mean, it's fantastic, you know? And it sounds like, right, your mission is to continue to share this passion so that other people can be vital as well. Vesanto Melina: That's right. I love it, you know, and I've had had clients that, you know, came with type 2 diabetes. And a year later they'll come back and say, hey, I don't have it anymore. You know, it's it's in remission. Or Stephan Esser MD: Na I don't Vesanto Melina: people who've been way underweight because Stephan Esser MD: Yeah. Vesanto Melina: life got a bit challenging and they kind of turned away from eating. And even a week or two later they go, hey, I'm gaining. It's great, it's Stephan Esser MD: Awesome. Vesanto Melina: working, and I actually like it. So this is very good. Yeah. Stephan Esser MD: Awesome. It's such a beautiful message. You know, my grandfather, who was one of the founders of the NHA, you know, he ran his health ranch till he was 90. And, you know, seeing patients Vesanto Melina: Wow. Stephan Esser MD: and caring for them every day. And Vesanto Melina: Yeah. Stephan Esser MD: hands down, right, I'm hearing that same message from you that, you know, he had one of his flyers that's on my website still on Esser Health. And it says, you know, men and women in your 50s and 60s don't go on the shelf. Right. And this this idea, you're breaking through that idea of like, well, slow down, stop doing so much, don't be engaged. yet here you are Vesanto Melina: That's right. Stephan Esser MD: writing a brand new book, which I hope will be a next bestseller. And everybody who's watching the podcast, yeah, should be buying the book and reading it. you Vesanto Melina: I think it will be. Yeah. Yeah. Stephan Esser MD: know, I have a question for you, right? So you've been in this health space for decades. How has your approach to your own personal nutrition changed in the last 10 years? What have you changed for you? Vesanto Melina: Okay. Well one thing is I used to think the right kind of diet to go on was vegan. Now I think what's right is well planned vegan because we've got to get it right. Like we need to include you know vitamin D. In many cases, even in Hawaii, the cancer center there, I was speaking on Maui in Honolulu, and they found that a lot of seniors and other adults in Honolulu were were low in vitamin D, you know, and we find that in Hawaii and San Diego, people are low. even skateboarders in Honolulu were low. Those are young guys that are out in the sun. Stephan Esser MD: Right. Vesanto Melina: So it was it was surprising. There's a lot of reasons for that. we're we're finding where did I go off on that one? Let's see. I can't remember what I was Stephan Esser MD: About right, about changing kind of how your nutrition has changed over the last ten years. Yeah. Vesanto Melina: how mine has changed. Yeah. So then I also so so the thing about getting it right has really come in strong. We you know, we're finding like with bone health, vegans aren't always doing better. You know, we have to get it right. Now some of the other things that say Brenda Davis and I have been very interested in is tracking our own vitamin D levels or omega-3 levels because Stephan Esser MD: Right. Vesanto Melina: the research hasn't caught up. For example, with vitamin D, it's very tricky to say exactly how much vitamin D we need. And people can get their own serum vitamin D levels checked and see if they're in the optimal range. I had to go up to, this is amazing, 9,000 international units a day to get my serum vitamin D right. And then I could come down. I worked with the lifestyle medicine group nearby and got my serum vitamin D to the right level. And that now it's lower than that. And I have been tracking my omega-3 fatty acids too with Stephan Esser MD: Right. Vesanto Melina: omegaquant.com or local lab. And they're like we don't even have official recommendations for how much of the long chain omega 3s we should be having for our brain and it helps our bones and all kinds of things. Stephan Esser MD: Right. Vesanto Melina: But you can see whether your levels at the optimal level. And people were eating fish for long chain omega-3s, but it turns out that the fish are lower now. If they're farmed fish, they aren't feeding them as much because they feed those all those trapped fish. And also even the fish in the wild have a lot of toxins and so on. But we can go where the fish get their omega-3s, because they don't make them, they just get them from microalgae. We can go directly to that source and get a microalgae-based supplement for DHA and EPA. And Stephan Esser MD: Yeah. Vesanto Melina: so we're just tracking these things and staying a bit ahead of, well, going with the research, but the leading edges of it. Stephan Esser MD: Right. So it sounds like you've become a little bit more aware of kind of these specific micronutrients and then how to incorporate them into your program. Is that correct? Vesanto Melina: That's right. And I often tell my clients, hey, you're gonna be the expert on you, you know. Stephan Esser MD: Mm. Vesanto Melina: You're gonna really be able to figure out what what you need, but but here are some tips and how to go about it. How to how to Stephan Esser MD: Right. So putting that ownership, putting that opportunity back in their hands, right? Yeah. You Vesanto Melina: Yeah, that's right. Yeah. Stephan Esser MD: know, we know that upwards of 90% of North Americans have at least one chronic condition, right? 80% have two or more. And in plant-based seniors, right, you kind of summarize some of the information about these 15 main chronic conditions. So when Vesanto Melina: Yeah. Stephan Esser MD: you when and and then kind of give recommendations on what can help to reduce the risk of these problems. And, you know, in some cases, even turn it around. For our viewership, what are you don't have to give away the whole story from the book, but what are a couple of these general approaches or adjustments that you might recommend to the senior population out there who maybe have eaten the standard, you know, American or Canadian diet for decades, but now recognize they want greater health and less debility? What are some kind of general approaches, right? Of adjustments that you guys recommend? Vesanto Melina: Okay. Well, we suggest that people go towards whole food, whole plant foods. And these are really, really helpful. and you can go gradually, it's okay. And we advise against all these ultra-processed foods, except that doesn't mean never eat something processed. I mean tofu's processed and it's a good food. Also, there are things like the Beyond Burgers. I was surprised I looked at the package. they have 6.5 milligrams of iron. And I find when people are a bit low in hemoglobin, it can really help to put Beyond Burger on your menu once in a while. That's a processed food, but it it kind of works, it's easy for people. Also, the calcium and vitamin D fortified plant milks. Now cow's milk is fortified like with vitamin D, and we can have the same in a plant milk, and so that's processed. So There's a few processed foods that are really helpful, but mostly go towards the whole plant foods. So that's one guideline that we have is towards whole plant and not too processed. Yeah. Stephan Esser MD: I like it. I mean, in a very reasonable, very approachable. And I like the idea you also said if I was just visualizing my head, that person who sometimes feels overwhelmed by big changes and radical shifts, but just Vesanto Melina: Yeah. Stephan Esser MD: saying, look, we need to add more of these whole plant-based foods into your diet. I mean, you the thing you said about some legumes once or twice or three times a day, gosh, right? Little transitions, little changes that can Vesanto Melina: Yeah. you know, I talked to Will Bolswick one day and I was saying, you know, yeah, it's good to just start with legumes, you know, half a cup of lentils. He said, Start small, one chickpea. Like it was that would that was extreme, but it was like just get your gut microbiota used to this change and Stephan Esser MD: Yeah, yeah. Vesanto Melina: you won't be kind of gassing out all your friends or having stomach discomfort. Stephan Esser MD: Right. Vesanto Melina: You just go gradually and enjoy it and find the foods you like, you know, be with groups or other people that you can share recipes and find ones that you absolutely love. Neil Bernard once said, You only need ten recipes, so you just find your little new ten, which are you've Stephan Esser MD: Yes. Vesanto Melina: probably got several of them already in your repertoire. Stephan Esser MD: And I bet you have a bunch of fun ones in plant powered seniors. Is that correct? Do you have some recipes in there? Yeah. Vesanto Melina: We do. Yeah. And that's interesting because I like quick and easy. I, you know, like to make my salad about every three or four days, huge salad, and then I got it there for lunch and supper. we don't put tomatoes or peppers in it because they'd go bad, but all the leaf Stephan Esser MD: Right. Vesanto Melina: stayed for three days, you know, easily. And then I I keep it pretty simple. One of my absolute favorites is a marinated tofu put in the air fryer. And I've got that in the fridge marinating all the time. And just just it's it's strong protein. So then I can have it as a snack. It's it's kind of like potato chips, except it's healthy. And you know, so that's one I really love. And one that I've helped people who needed to gain weight has got Stephan Esser MD: Right. Vesanto Melina: two ingredients. And it it's so easy. It's a melted chocolate bar, sort of dark chocolate, and some soft tofu and they get just the the chocolate softened, the soft tofus added, and then they can add peanut butter if they want or some pea based yogurt Stephan Esser MD: Right. Vesanto Melina: and and it it's a really good protein food for people who are having dental challenges or Stephan Esser MD: Right. Vesanto Melina: You need to gain some weight, that kind of thing. Stephan Esser MD: Yeah. Well, and I I like what you're saying there is that there is a it's not one size fits all. I like also this idea of like people kind of I I like to tell people that they are the CEO of their own health company. Right. I mean, it's like really, you know, it's Vesanto Melina: Uh-huh. Stephan Esser MD: it's it's it's not that the doctor or the whoever over there is telling you what to do. You are evaluating your own personal health and then kind of making changes to help you achieve the health that you've always wanted. Right. so yeah. Vesanto Melina: That's right. And I d I do nutritional analysis for people Stephan Esser MD: Hm. Vesanto Melina: with a very good program. And they end up finding out, hey, ninety-five percent of what I'm doing is just awesome. It's excellent. There's a few little tweaks, you know, how to improve Stephan Esser MD: Yeah. Vesanto Melina: it. They go real really feeling empowered. Yeah. Stephan Esser MD: Beautiful. You know, you mentioned briefly about bone health. in your book, are give us one or two things that maybe you point out to seniors about lifestyle changes that can help their bones. Vesanto Melina: Okay, well the things that I mentioned like about protein and the minerals. Bones are like this living matrix keeps updating itself, keeps changing, it slows down a bit when we get older. So we do want the protein, the calcium, the magnesium, the potassium, these minerals to go in. and that diet thing's really important. It's also really important to exercise on a regular basis. And I I do usually five fitness classes a week that involve weights. They're for seniors though. They're not really super hard. They're not like the same ones that 25 year olds are doing. And they involve weights and I do two yoga classes. So and I find just that getting out there and sometimes I'll get to the gym. One neighbor said, I just admire you so much that you get to the gym all the time. But when I get there, often I I do feel a bit stiff and you know, wondering, yeah, do I really feel like doing this? And then after a couple minutes of moving my body, like it really feels good. Your posture gets better, and they teach Stephan Esser MD: Right. Vesanto Melina: you a lot about how not to fall fall or how Stephan Esser MD: Right. Vesanto Melina: to catch yourself before you fall, and you start getting a confidence about it. Stephan Esser MD: Awesome. Awesome. Yeah. I mean, you know, I tell, you know, I'm a sports doctor, and so I tell my patients 80% of fractures occur in the setting of falls. So if we can just avoid the falls, right? And all about proprioception and balance and lower body strength and reaction time, all these things are so crucial, right? Along with the excellent nutrition to help keep right the everything healthy. Speaking of which, speaking of the eyes, right? Like vision, you know, for our Vesanto Melina: Yeah. Yeah. Stephan Esser MD: followers. share a little bit with us what you've learned about reducing the risk of macular degeneration. That's actually an area that affects people. Vesanto Melina: yeah, that was I got interested because I of course use my eyes a lot and I started finding I had a little bit of wet macular degeneration. Stephan Esser MD: Mm. Vesanto Melina: And I I I was thinking about this and I thought, you know, fifteen, twenty years ago, I would have just gone downhill with this. You know, it would have ended up not being able to see. as a senior, you know, that would really happen. But it can be now caught. Both medically there's a little laser hit that they do, which you can hardly feel every six or eight weeks. But mostly it's good to stay in touch with your eye doctor about things like that. I just found my vision was going a bit blurry and I went to check it out. But also it really helps to eat those carotenoids. that the orange things. So that's like carrots and yams. I love baked yams. If ever I put the air the oven on, I'll stick in a couple of those orange yams or sweet potatoes Stephan Esser MD: Right. Vesanto Melina: and eat carrots and the carotenoids really, really help keep your eyes in good health. And also we want vitamin C, vitamin A, the antioxidants and that helps and exercise helps too. Like all the things that keep your blood charging around and clearing out. they clear toxins from different parts of the body. They help your heart, they help your bones, they help your eyes. Stephan Esser MD: Simple approaches that are powerful throughout the body. I love it. you know, I have a question for you. So as we're getting closer to wrapping up our time together, is you know, health in our senior years is often created in our early and midlife, right? So I have a if you are speaking to let's say a 20-year-old female and she wants to be healthy when she's in her 40s, 50s, 60s, and beyond, what are the top three or four tips that you would give her on? what she should be doing now in her twenties and thirties to create a healthy seventies and eighties. Vesanto Melina: Huh. Let's see. well one thing is to start finding ways to make food prep fun. that that seems some people didn't learn that. I learned that because my mom taught me and I find it unfortunate when people didn't learn that, you know, and it's good to connect with others that that are exploring that kind of food. also if people go to restaurants, check out happycow.net. It's a very good website. and let's see what what else? there's so many different options. It's it's good to find some networks in your neighborhood that are going on a healthy direction because you know not everybody is, but there's for example, we've got a meatless meetup group. that has 6,500 members Stephan Esser MD: Wow. Vesanto Melina: locally. And there's like two or three restaurant get togethers, there's talks, all that kind of thing. So it's good to to look up. I think you've got really good courses that people can take at all different ages, right? Stephan Esser MD: we try to help where we can. Vesanto Melina: Yeah. And it's good to go to these little veg fests. that are happening. I just had Robert Cheek here yesterday for lunch Stephan Esser MD: Nice. Vesanto Melina: and he'd just been speaking somewhere locally. But it it's good to learn how strong and healthy you can be and you'll end up having a really, really good life from your twenties on. Stephan Esser MD: I love it. You know, it sounds like what I'm hearing there from you is continue to advance your knowledge. Make things, you know, fun, especially around food and food preparation, because if you don't enjoy preparing the healthy food, you're probably not going to do it and you won't eat it. Right. And then you're going to fall back on all the processed junk and all the rest. And then a Vesanto Melina: Yeah. Stephan Esser MD: third thing I'm hearing from what you said was develop connection and social circles with people who support you in being healthy and vital. Yeah. So yeah, Vesanto Melina: That's right. Yeah. Stephan Esser MD: yeah, yeah. good advice. You know, back to your latest book that's out, The Plant Powered Senior. who who should be reading this book? Vesanto Melina: Well, it could be people who are approaching their fifties and it could be people who are well into it, like in their eighties. people can still turn things around. that was like my friend that that was losing so much weight was older than me. She was in her I think 87 and and managed to turn things around. and also lost it there. Well I w I went off on a direction. Let's see. Stephan Esser MD: You're good. You got all the fifty to eighty year olds. That was what I think a target audience Vesanto Melina: Yeah. Okay. Stephan Esser MD: for the book. Vesanto Melina: That's not all though. The people that love their granny or their mom, they they could get it for them because it it really helps like for older people. And if they find a couple recipes they like, that's usually the root in. It's Stephan Esser MD: Right. Vesanto Melina: finding, I can eat that. I really like that, you know, that marinated tofu or just having a salad there when I get home. what a relief. Or batch cooking, you know, making ten servings of my favorite lentil soup and it's just there in the freezer. Just those things make it so easy and it'll really help s a senior. Yeah. Stephan Esser MD: What what I love about you is I know you have a wealth, a cornucopia of academic knowledge and science because the academic papers you've written, the books you've written, et cetera. And yet what Vesanto Melina: Yeah. Stephan Esser MD: you're sharing with the audience today is a simple message about incorporating healthy habits and behaviors into your life and then thriving. Yet we know based on your books that I've looked at, right? And the papers you've written, which I've shared with people over the years. you know, is that the science is so incontrovertible that, you know, plant-based nutrition needs to be at the heart and the foundation of human health. Right. And so I want to say thank you personally to you for all your work on the academic papers, et cetera, because it makes my dialogue with other doctors and healthcare practitioners so much easier. And then thank Vesanto Melina: Uh-huh. Stephan Esser MD: you also for all the books that you've written, you know, and the lives that you've transformed for good through them. And I want to encourage everybody watching today to please go out and buy this most recent one. by Vicento Molina and co-authors and called Plant Powered Seniors. And with that, Vicento, I want to say thank you for joining us today. Any final words for our audience before we close? Vesanto Melina: I'll I'll tell people what the website is, plant Stephan Esser MD: please. Vesanto Melina: dash powered protein.com. my husband actually did that website, plant powered protein, but it's got a dash between plant and powered. And my website, which my daughter does, is nutraspeak.com. And that's Stephan Esser MD: Awesome. Vesanto Melina: but just really enjoy if you if you get this book, it can be pre-ordered. really enjoy. what we're sharing in there because it is a very interesting. Yeah. Stephan Esser MD: Awesome. Well, thank you for the gift of all the work that you're doing. And thank you for joining us today. And everybody, I hope you enjoyed today's NHA Today podcast, and we'll look forward to seeing you at another edition soon.