Latest / The Bechdel Cast / Widows with Michael-Michelle Pratt

Transcript

Widows with Michael-Michelle Pratt · The Bechdel Cast

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: On the Doodcast, the questions asked if movies have women
• 0:04
  Speaker 1: in them, are all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: or do they have individualism? The patriarchy? Zef and best
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: start changing it with the beck Del Cast. Hey, Jamie,
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: Hey Caitlin, you know how our husbands died in a
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: botched podcast episode? Or did they? Well we don't know
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: just yet, but let's assume that they did. Okay, okay,
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: do you want to maybe start our own podcast together? Wow?
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: But but not because we want our own podcast to
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: sort of like finish their unfinished podcast business. Right, we're
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: finishing their podcast. We're finishing their last podcast episode there,
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: and we have some people after us that if we
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: don't finish their podcast, they're gonna kill us. Sophie. If
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: we don't finish the podcast, she finds us and she
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: hunts us. But if we do successfully finish it, we're
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: going to be so rich. Oh well, obviously all podcasters
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: are extremely rich. Well, I feel pretty good about that intro.
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: I feel I thank you. I hope that I hope
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: everyone had a great time listening to it, because I
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: had a great time participating. Yeah, you're welcome, everybody. Hello,
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: and welcome to very diplomatic Welcome to the Bechdel coust
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: My name is Caitlin Darante. My name is Jamie Loftus,
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: And this is our podcast about ruining movies that you
• 1:41
  Speaker 1: previously really enjoyed using an intersectional feminist lance, or in
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: some cases, celebrating pretty good movies. That's true. I guess
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: that that would have been a more appropriate setup for
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: this particular episode. But yeah, this is uh, this is
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: this is our damn podcast. You know, if you're if
• 1:58
  Speaker 1: you're just getting here, welcome, if you've been here for
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: a while, kick your feet up, baby, get comfortable. Because
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: it's the Widows episode. We've gotten a lot of requests
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: for I feel like we've been getting requests for this
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: episode since the movie came out almost three years ago now,
• 2:16
  Speaker 1: so it's been a long time coming and I'm so
• 2:20
  Speaker 1: excited to cover it. Same but hold on, what is
• 2:24
  Speaker 1: our podcast? Oh gee whiz. It's an examination of film
• 2:31
  Speaker 1: through an intersectional feminist lens, right where we use the
• 2:36
  Speaker 1: Bechtel test simply as a jumping off point to initiate
• 2:41
  Speaker 1: a larger conversation. And the Bechtel test, of course, is
• 2:44
  Speaker 1: a media metric created by queer cartoonist Alison Bechtel, sometimes
• 2:49
  Speaker 1: called the Bechtel Wallace test that requires our variation on
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: the test is that two people of any marginalized gender
• 2:57
  Speaker 1: have to have names, they must speak to each other,
• 3:01
  Speaker 1: and their conversation has to be about something other than
• 3:04
  Speaker 1: a man. Ideally it is a meaningful, plot relevant conversation,
• 3:11
  Speaker 1: but if it's a two line exchange, we will consider it.
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: We go case by case. I don't think it's a
• 3:19
  Speaker 1: huge issue for this particular movie, but we've we've had
• 3:23
  Speaker 1: to really get in the weeds in the past, Caitlin.
• 3:25
  Speaker 1: I was realizing the other day that we've been on
• 3:27
  Speaker 1: this podcast longer than we were in high school. WHOA
• 3:32
  Speaker 1: how wild? And I feel like I've learned way more same.
• 3:36
  Speaker 1: So we're like I did in high school. We're like
• 3:38
  Speaker 1: super seniors because this is our fifth year of doing
• 3:41
  Speaker 1: the podcast. Yeah, with no end in sight, we're never
• 3:44
  Speaker 1: going to graduate. Uh fine, by me, Let's get our
• 3:51
  Speaker 1: guests in here, shall we. Let's do it. She is
• 3:55
  Speaker 1: a freelance journalist. She's had work published in Harper's Bazaar.
• 3:58
  Speaker 1: She's also a film student and aspiring filmmaker. It's Michael
• 4:02
  Speaker 1: Michelle Pratt. Hello and welcome, holcome, Hi, thank you for
• 4:06
  Speaker 1: having me. Know I'm a huge fan, and I'm really
• 4:08
  Speaker 1: excited h to be here, and I like, I love
• 4:12
  Speaker 1: this movie. So I'm very excited. We're so happy to
• 4:15
  Speaker 1: have you. We're so psyched. Uh So we're covering Widows.
• 4:20
  Speaker 1: It's a movie directed by Steve McQueen, screenplay by Steve
• 4:26
  Speaker 1: McQueen and Jillian's God damn it, I am a misogynist,
• 4:35
  Speaker 1: which is why I didn't double check her name before.
• 4:39
  Speaker 1: But either way, uh so, so Michael Michelle to get
• 4:44
  Speaker 1: stuff started. What is your history with this movie? Yeah,
• 4:49
  Speaker 1: so I wanted to go see in theaters. Uh. I
• 4:52
  Speaker 1: think it might have been I don't know it was
• 4:55
  Speaker 1: the opening weekend or the weekend after opening weekend. By
• 4:57
  Speaker 1: I thought with my mom, Um, I I like, I like,
• 5:01
  Speaker 1: I really like the late night shoving because I love
• 5:03
  Speaker 1: the trailer. Um, I think why all Davis is just
• 5:07
  Speaker 1: you know her existence, I just all the reformances if
• 5:10
  Speaker 1: for everything, I love her. Um, I'm not a huge
• 5:14
  Speaker 1: told me to Slafe you have, but I love everything
• 5:15
  Speaker 1: else take me. I think he's also really brilliant. Um.
• 5:18
  Speaker 1: And so I was just like I was like really
• 5:20
  Speaker 1: psyched for this and so I love the trailer and
• 5:22
  Speaker 1: when to go see it? Um and then it was
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: really mad. It was like me and my mom and
• 5:27
  Speaker 1: like one one other guy in the corner. I was like,
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: this is oh no one else was there. No, it
• 5:32
  Speaker 1: was like three of us just at this like awkwards
• 5:35
  Speaker 1: like eleven Black Night screening, and I was like, wow, okay.
• 5:40
  Speaker 1: I was like, I was like, what did your mom think?
• 5:44
  Speaker 1: So she she liked it, but she didn't like the
• 5:47
  Speaker 1: ending because she my mom hated like in being its endings.
• 5:51
  Speaker 1: And I was like, that's the fun of it because
• 5:53
  Speaker 1: they're like maybe they've become friends who don't know and
• 5:56
  Speaker 1: they've been like this whole this really tumultuous, traumatic future,
• 5:59
  Speaker 1: but they're kind a friend and it's cool and I
• 6:01
  Speaker 1: love it being the new films. That's like my thing.
• 6:04
  Speaker 1: But she was like, but she was like I wanted
• 6:06
  Speaker 1: like more closure of but that wasn't the point. But fine.
• 6:09
  Speaker 1: I was like you. I was like, you know, fine,
• 6:12
  Speaker 1: but yeah, she wouldn't and she wasn't really a fan
• 6:15
  Speaker 1: of the of the ending. But other than that, I
• 6:18
  Speaker 1: think I think she liked this. Yeah, nice Jamie, what
• 6:21
  Speaker 1: about you what's your relationship with the movie. Not too much.
• 6:25
  Speaker 1: I had seen it. I think I hadn't. I hadn't
• 6:29
  Speaker 1: seen it until Quarantine last year, but I had a
• 6:34
  Speaker 1: copy of it at my house. My my boyfriend's a
• 6:37
  Speaker 1: huge fan of this movie. He seen it like ten times.
• 6:41
  Speaker 1: It's like one of his comfort movies or even though
• 6:43
  Speaker 1: it's like not even that old of a movie, so
• 6:45
  Speaker 1: he was like, you're going to sit down with me
• 6:47
  Speaker 1: and watch it. Not very comforting either, No, it's kind
• 6:50
  Speaker 1: of stressful, but I have I don't know, I feel
• 6:54
  Speaker 1: like everyone has a stressful comfort movie where it's like
• 6:56
  Speaker 1: I can't exactly put my finger on why this would
• 7:00
  Speaker 1: bring me peace, but for some reason it does. I mean,
• 7:02
  Speaker 1: Titanic is definitely one of my comfort movies and also
• 7:05
  Speaker 1: not comforting at all and bodies are hitting the floor
• 7:11
  Speaker 1: the whole time. Um, but yes, I I just saw
• 7:15
  Speaker 1: it last year and now I think I've seen it
• 7:18
  Speaker 1: three times. And it's so it's already so interesting where
• 7:22
  Speaker 1: this movie is three years old, but I feel like
• 7:24
  Speaker 1: already having a little bit of distance from it. It's
• 7:26
  Speaker 1: really interesting to watch back because this was like immediately
• 7:30
  Speaker 1: after the Me Too movement started. Movie and I feel
• 7:33
  Speaker 1: like that is very present and how it was marketed
• 7:37
  Speaker 1: and already just with a couple of years of distance
• 7:40
  Speaker 1: from it. I really enjoyed the movie. It's like such
• 7:43
  Speaker 1: a blast. The cast is like, I can't think of
• 7:46
  Speaker 1: a more fun cast for a movie. And yeah, I
• 7:51
  Speaker 1: don't know, I feel like there's so much to talk about.
• 7:53
  Speaker 1: It's uh, it's it's a goddamn romp. Uh. What about you, Caitlin,
• 7:58
  Speaker 1: what's your history with this? I didn't see it in theaters,
• 8:02
  Speaker 1: but I saw it a few months later. You know,
• 8:06
  Speaker 1: I remember there being quite a bit of buzz about it,
• 8:09
  Speaker 1: and it won some awards, I think some BAFTA's, I believe.
• 8:13
  Speaker 1: Um so I this is a very British movie for
• 8:16
  Speaker 1: a movie that takes place in Chicago. I did not
• 8:20
  Speaker 1: know Steve McQueen was English until I really started reading
• 8:26
  Speaker 1: some stuff about him. Yeah. I don't know how I
• 8:29
  Speaker 1: missed that detail, but I did make the kind of
• 8:31
  Speaker 1: stray observation that there are a lot of British and
• 8:36
  Speaker 1: Irish actors in this movie playing Americans, between Colin Farrell,
• 8:40
  Speaker 1: Liam Neeson and Daniel Coloya. Yeah, like, once you know
• 8:44
  Speaker 1: Steve McQueen is from the UK. You're like, oh, yeah,
• 8:47
  Speaker 1: that's why half of this cast is very much not
• 8:50
  Speaker 1: from Chicago. Yeah. Um so, anyway, I saw the movie.
• 8:56
  Speaker 1: I love a good heist movie, and Cynthia Arriva too
• 9:01
  Speaker 1: is British, I believe. Sorry, oh she Okay, I got it.
• 9:05
  Speaker 1: But yeah, I thought it was a really well crafted
• 9:08
  Speaker 1: movie and I was excited to watch it again and
• 9:11
  Speaker 1: to discuss it right here on this EPISODEEP. Should we
• 9:16
  Speaker 1: get into the recamp, let's do it. Okay. So the
• 9:22
  Speaker 1: movie begins with a robbery that is taking place by
• 9:26
  Speaker 1: a team of four men. We also cut to like
• 9:31
  Speaker 1: quick glimpses of their home lives and we see them
• 9:35
  Speaker 1: with their wives, their wives, their wives. The ringleader is
• 9:42
  Speaker 1: Harry Rawlings. That's Liam Neeson. He is married to Veronica
• 9:46
  Speaker 1: Rawlings that is Viola Davis. The other other wives are
• 9:53
  Speaker 1: This is gonna be very hard for me to not
• 9:55
  Speaker 1: constantly do this. I mean that's literally the premise of
• 9:58
  Speaker 1: the movie. Like, I've their wives their dead husband's exactly
• 10:06
  Speaker 1: every first seconds, just they have to remind they're dead, right.
• 10:13
  Speaker 1: Uh So the other wives are Linda that's Michelle Rodriguez,
• 10:18
  Speaker 1: Alice that's Elizabeth DEBICKI, and I think of her as
• 10:23
  Speaker 1: Mrs Tennant. That's the only other thing I know her from.
• 10:27
  Speaker 1: She's really tall. She's really tall, and she was in Tennant.
• 10:31
  Speaker 1: I did not realize that was her, Yes, Tenant. I mean,
• 10:34
  Speaker 1: I feel like I blacked it all out, but she
• 10:37
  Speaker 1: was definitely in it. Good to know. I didn't see that.
• 10:41
  Speaker 1: How did that turn out? I know? Assaulted? How did
• 10:43
  Speaker 1: that know? How did that go? I don't know. I
• 10:46
  Speaker 1: feel like I would have had more fun if, like
• 10:49
  Speaker 1: if they had just like held onto it and released
• 10:52
  Speaker 1: it when people could go to theaters. But because it
• 10:55
  Speaker 1: was like I watched it at a drive in and
• 10:57
  Speaker 1: I had no idea what was happening. And I tried
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: to watch it on streaming and I was like, I
• 11:03
  Speaker 1: still have no idea, Like, I don't know. I saw
• 11:09
  Speaker 1: it in the comfort of my own home. Granted it
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: was in the middle of the night and I was
• 11:14
  Speaker 1: tired and falling asleep, but I didn't follow the story
• 11:17
  Speaker 1: at all. I think the world building is really confusing
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: and like not set up very well. But again, it
• 11:23
  Speaker 1: could have been that I was asleep, if hard Christopher Nolan, Okay,
• 11:27
  Speaker 1: here's my here's my hot take if Christopher Nolan is
• 11:30
  Speaker 1: so interested in time, why he has he wasted so
• 11:34
  Speaker 1: much of mine? And then imagine me dunking a basketball
• 11:39
  Speaker 1: and then not not just dropping a microphone, but like
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: throwing it across the room. The microphone explodes. Um, okay,
• 11:49
  Speaker 1: so we've met the other wife, so it's Linda Ellis
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: and then Amanda, also played by Carry Coon. Then we
• 11:57
  Speaker 1: see the robbery go all wrong. The men are shot
• 12:03
  Speaker 1: and killed and also exploded by cops. Yeah. I kind
• 12:08
  Speaker 1: of appreciated that they triple killed the guy. I was like, Okay,
• 12:12
  Speaker 1: so there's or at least I thought spoiler ahead, but
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: I was like, Wow, these guys are super dead. They
• 12:22
  Speaker 1: couldn't be deader just and they keep saying over and
• 12:26
  Speaker 1: over like they're just ye, just shot everywhere, just they
• 12:29
  Speaker 1: were on the ground. They keep reiterating to let you know,
• 12:32
  Speaker 1: like they're super dead, like they have to keep reiterating
• 12:35
  Speaker 1: it could not be less alive, to the point that
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: like later later when it's like the the big Gillian
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: Flynn style to whist comes up, you're kind of like, oh,
• 12:47
  Speaker 1: I guess that they like almost lay it on too
• 12:50
  Speaker 1: thick that they're super dead. You're like, oh, okay, I
• 12:54
  Speaker 1: fell for I totally fell for it. The first time
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: I saw this movie, I did not see the twist
• 12:58
  Speaker 1: coming at all. There Oh, no, me neither. I was
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: like what I was, I can't excuse me. I was like,
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: I was in the doorway. What right? Yeah, it was
• 13:13
  Speaker 1: a it was a solid twist. I feel like there's
• 13:15
  Speaker 1: so many twists, are so easy to predict. But gone
• 13:19
  Speaker 1: girl got us, Baby, she got us again, Gone girl,
• 13:23
  Speaker 1: Gillian gets us again. Wow, the alliteration is astounding, incredible. Headline. Okay,
• 13:32
  Speaker 1: so the men are shot and killed and exploded, meaning
• 13:36
  Speaker 1: the wives are now widows. That's the name of the movie. Okay.
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: Then we meet Jack Mulligan that's Colin Farrell, and we
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: meet Jamal Manning that's Brian Tyree Henry. They are both
• 13:52
  Speaker 1: politicians running for alderman of Chicago's eighteenth ward. I had
• 13:59
  Speaker 1: to look up what that was, and now I know
• 14:02
  Speaker 1: it's basically like a city council member. Right. Yeah, I
• 14:05
  Speaker 1: never I never figured out with the actual office. What's
• 14:08
  Speaker 1: Every time I watched it, I'm like, you know, it's
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: some kind of political thing. I don't know exactly, but
• 14:12
  Speaker 1: I'm just gonna I'm just like, something this up. You know,
• 14:16
  Speaker 1: there's some kind of office going on. I had to
• 14:18
  Speaker 1: read that elsewhere. I did not figure this out on
• 14:21
  Speaker 1: my own. I kind of wish they told you in
• 14:23
  Speaker 1: the movie because it's like, yeah, because it's not clear.
• 14:26
  Speaker 1: It is just like a city council and position. I
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: felt so I when I realized that both of their
• 14:32
  Speaker 1: initials were j M, I was like, oh, wow, makes
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: you think I got really excited. What does it mean?
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: I don't know, but I was just like that has
• 14:43
  Speaker 1: to be on purpose, right, Yeah, not not sure. So
• 14:48
  Speaker 1: they're running for Chicago's eighteenth Ward, which is a predominantly
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: low income black neighborhood. Jack is trying to get Jamal
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: to drop out of the race, but he refuses. We
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: also meet Jamal's brother, Ja Tem that's Daniel Coloya, and
• 15:06
  Speaker 1: we at some point around this time also meet Jack
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: Mulligan's father, Tom Mulligan, who is a career politician, full
• 15:16
  Speaker 1: on evil Robert. So we meet these politicians and then
• 15:21
  Speaker 1: some of their family. Right, So the Mulligan's are this
• 15:25
  Speaker 1: almost like Chicago Kennedy's, like just clinging to power but
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: don't actually care about anybody. Sort of family and then
• 15:35
  Speaker 1: Jamal is kind of like a I heard Steve McQueen
• 15:39
  Speaker 1: in an interview be like he's my Michael Corleone, and
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: I was like, oh, that kind of does make sense.
• 15:44
  Speaker 1: Like he's he's like a Godfather style guy, and it's
• 15:48
  Speaker 1: like the I don't know, Daniel Klliya, it seems like
• 15:52
  Speaker 1: is having so much fun in this movie, Like he's
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: having a blast his care he's scary. Yeah, yeah, what's
• 16:03
  Speaker 1: he made to be? He's so scart, He's so scart
• 16:07
  Speaker 1: with such little dialogue and it's all like the Pasha
• 16:09
  Speaker 1: and the shoulders and and you're so frightened. But when
• 16:12
  Speaker 1: he's doing all of his in commanding such space and
• 16:15
  Speaker 1: was staying that's a little I'm just every time I watched,
• 16:17
  Speaker 1: I'm like, but and you can tell he's enjoying all
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: of it, and it's just it's a great performance. And
• 16:23
  Speaker 1: he's such a talented actor. He's so good and it's
• 16:26
  Speaker 1: so fun to watch actors having fun, especially in sequences
• 16:30
  Speaker 1: like I mean, so many of his sequences are and
• 16:33
  Speaker 1: like mob movies are like has never really been my genre.
• 16:38
  Speaker 1: But it's like when someone is like, you know, Daniel
• 16:40
  Speaker 1: Khalia comes in the room. You're like, oh, he's going
• 16:42
  Speaker 1: to kill someone in a way that's really interesting to watch,
• 16:46
  Speaker 1: and it keeps happening. It's oh my god when he
• 16:49
  Speaker 1: kills the guy, and then he watches football when he
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: kills the guy while he's singing You're wild love it
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: um okay. So then we learn that the botched robbery
• 17:01
  Speaker 1: that we saw was Harry Rawlings and his team stealing
• 17:05
  Speaker 1: two million dollars from Jamal Manning, and that that money
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: burnt up in the explosion. Then we cut back to
• 17:15
  Speaker 1: the wives, the widows of the robbers morning their late husbands.
• 17:20
  Speaker 1: We meet Bash, that's Harry's driver. He gives Veronica a
• 17:26
  Speaker 1: key to a safety deposit box. This is something that
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: Harry wanted her to have if anything ever happened to him.
• 17:32
  Speaker 1: Then Jamal approaches Veronica. He knows that her husband stole
• 17:38
  Speaker 1: from him and he wants the two million dollars back.
• 17:42
  Speaker 1: He says that she has a month to liquidate her
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: assets and get that money to him. We've also, by
• 17:48
  Speaker 1: this point seen Jetam murder a couple of people, so
• 17:52
  Speaker 1: we know that these guys mean business and that the
• 17:56
  Speaker 1: stakes are very high for Veronica. She then goes to
• 18:02
  Speaker 1: the safety deposit box and inside is a notebook that
• 18:06
  Speaker 1: details Harry's next job, a five million dollar robbery. Um
• 18:11
  Speaker 1: So then Veronica contact the other widows. She has the
• 18:16
  Speaker 1: idea to work with them to pull off this five
• 18:20
  Speaker 1: million dollar heist so that she can take some of
• 18:22
  Speaker 1: that money and pay Jamal back and then they will
• 18:25
  Speaker 1: split the rest. So Linda and Alice show up, but
• 18:29
  Speaker 1: the other widow, Amanda, does not, so Veronica convinces Linda
• 18:36
  Speaker 1: and Alice to do this. It's established that they are
• 18:40
  Speaker 1: both struggling financially after the death of their husband's right,
• 18:44
  Speaker 1: they're not like as in immediate danger as Veronica. It
• 18:49
  Speaker 1: doesn't seem like which was one of my story issues
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: where I'm like, hmmm, if I were Michelle Rodriguez, i
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: might say no, thank you, I'm not interested. But I
• 19:01
  Speaker 1: was like the all time, I can't think. I was like,
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: does that seem like as pressing for you? So I
• 19:04
  Speaker 1: was like, I can't, Like if I could like not that,
• 19:07
  Speaker 1: I'd be like, you know, good financial security. I feel
• 19:12
  Speaker 1: like that like that is enough to like get you
• 19:15
  Speaker 1: into the premise and all of that. But but yeah,
• 19:17
  Speaker 1: as the movie was going on, and it was like
• 19:19
  Speaker 1: Oh my god, all these women cut Like. I know
• 19:23
  Speaker 1: that they're not going to die because movie, but like
• 19:26
  Speaker 1: the stakes are extremely high for what kind of is
• 19:28
  Speaker 1: Like Michelle Rodriguez is like, well, I don't want to
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: say I didn't do this because feminism. I was like,
• 19:36
  Speaker 1: but then your kids wouldn't have a parent. She does
• 19:41
  Speaker 1: have children, which you would think maybe she'd be like,
• 19:44
  Speaker 1: I can't get into this very risky, dangerous heist because
• 19:49
  Speaker 1: I might die. But I did buy that that she
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: and Alice were motivated enough to do it because of
• 19:55
  Speaker 1: their very precurious financial situation, So I don't know, know
• 20:00
  Speaker 1: that makes sense. Yeah, So anyway, the three of them
• 20:03
  Speaker 1: get to work on planning the heist. They need guns,
• 20:08
  Speaker 1: they need a van, They have a blueprint, but they
• 20:11
  Speaker 1: don't know where this house is, so there's a lot
• 20:16
  Speaker 1: that they have to acquire and figure out. So they
• 20:18
  Speaker 1: get to work on that. Meanwhile, the Manning's intimidate some
• 20:22
  Speaker 1: people that Veronica knows, basically trying to figure out what
• 20:26
  Speaker 1: she's up to. They kill bash her driver. So now
• 20:31
  Speaker 1: they have to find the football murder scene. That's a
• 20:34
  Speaker 1: football murder scene. I think that was my favorite. Daniel
• 20:37
  Speaker 1: Kolea can't be murder scene. I have a like a
• 20:41
  Speaker 1: whole kind of spiel about that, which we'll get to.
• 20:43
  Speaker 1: But um, yeah, interesting choices were made. Um. But the
• 20:47
  Speaker 1: bottom line is that they now have to find a
• 20:51
  Speaker 1: new getaway driver, which, um, Jamie you pointed out it's
• 20:56
  Speaker 1: Michelle Rodriguez. Yeah, so take it away. I was laughing
• 21:01
  Speaker 1: my head off when Michelle Rodriguez enters the scene and
• 21:03
  Speaker 1: she's like, we need a new driver. I was like,
• 21:06
  Speaker 1: speaking of people who would know a thing or two
• 21:08
  Speaker 1: about driving, Mrs Fast and Furious, I was, And then
• 21:12
  Speaker 1: they have her character. I feel like they like that
• 21:15
  Speaker 1: had to have been intentional that whenever someone is like
• 21:18
  Speaker 1: we need a driver, it's only Michelle Rodriguez being like
• 21:21
  Speaker 1: we needed drivers and cars. I'm like, yeah, exactly. We
• 21:26
  Speaker 1: love an Internet to neverdic universe. She is car Cannon.
• 21:32
  Speaker 1: They need a crossover film to bring these two worlds together.
• 21:36
  Speaker 1: The Widows would fit right in in the Fast and
• 21:39
  Speaker 1: Furious Expanded Universe. I feel I think Rodriguez Universe, Yeah,
• 21:45
  Speaker 1: that could be a thing. Okay, So then we get
• 21:49
  Speaker 1: a reveal that Harry Rawlings is still alive. He had
• 21:54
  Speaker 1: faked his death and it turns out that he's been
• 21:57
  Speaker 1: having an affair with Amanda, the widow who hasn't been
• 22:02
  Speaker 1: showing up, and he is sticking around for now to
• 22:06
  Speaker 1: I think, take the money that Veronica is planning to
• 22:11
  Speaker 1: steal that? What's that? I think? So that was a
• 22:15
  Speaker 1: little camp like where there were that twist was I
• 22:18
  Speaker 1: was very impressed with the twist. I just didn't see
• 22:21
  Speaker 1: it coming. But then I was like, wait a second,
• 22:23
  Speaker 1: huh where like Jack Mulligan is involved there on a boat,
• 22:29
  Speaker 1: Carrie Coon's involved, You're like, wait a second, what's the
• 22:33
  Speaker 1: end goal here? And then and then it didn't really
• 22:35
  Speaker 1: become story relevant. I was like at first when I
• 22:39
  Speaker 1: was like okay, I was like I was surprised. But
• 22:42
  Speaker 1: then they after the boat and I was like, how
• 22:44
  Speaker 1: no one so no one's aware of this? How is
• 22:47
  Speaker 1: how was he able to get him just? I was like,
• 22:51
  Speaker 1: that was right. I was like, this is a little
• 22:52
  Speaker 1: distant now. Yeah, I also am unclear about So the
• 22:58
  Speaker 1: initial job that goes wrong is them stealing from Jamal
• 23:03
  Speaker 1: Manning like on behalf of Jack Mulligan, But then Harry's
• 23:07
  Speaker 1: next job was stealing from Jack Mulligan on behalf of
• 23:11
  Speaker 1: someone I don't know. Yeah, I feel like Harry. Harry
• 23:15
  Speaker 1: doesn't vote, Like I feel like he doesn't care who
• 23:17
  Speaker 1: wins or who loses. But yeah, like I don't know.
• 23:23
  Speaker 1: Maybe a listener will like point something out and there's
• 23:25
  Speaker 1: something very clear that I wasn't seeing, but involving the politicians.
• 23:30
  Speaker 1: On top of like that, I just felt like a
• 23:32
  Speaker 1: hat on top of a hat, and I got confused.
• 23:35
  Speaker 1: And then again it's like, all I guess technically, all
• 23:38
  Speaker 1: you really need to know is that Harry is alive
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: and he was cheating on Veronica. But it was, Yeah,
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: it was a little confusing. We also get a flashback
• 23:50
  Speaker 1: where we learn about Harry and Veronica's son Marcus, and
• 23:55
  Speaker 1: we learned that he was pulled over and then shot
• 24:00
  Speaker 1: to death by cops. We cut back to the President.
• 24:04
  Speaker 1: The widows figure out where the blueprints are four a
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: K the house that they plan to break into, and
• 24:12
  Speaker 1: it turns out to be Jack Mulligan's house. Then Linda A. K.
• 24:18
  Speaker 1: Michelle Rodriguez, She's like, we need a driver, and then
• 24:21
  Speaker 1: she finds a driver. Well, I mean, who else is
• 24:25
  Speaker 1: gonna do it? In Diesel, He's not in the movie.
• 24:30
  Speaker 1: She recruits her babysitter Belle played by Cynthia Arrivo to
• 24:36
  Speaker 1: be their getaway driver, and she and Veronica scope out
• 24:41
  Speaker 1: Jack's house. Um. They do a little reconnaissance type stuff.
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: Then it is time for the heist. Is the same
• 24:50
  Speaker 1: night as the debate between Jack Mulligan and Jamal Manning.
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: The women get to the house, they make their way in,
• 24:58
  Speaker 1: they grabbed the five million dollars. Tom Mulligan a k.
• 25:02
  Speaker 1: Robert Duval tries to stop them. They shoot him and
• 25:07
  Speaker 1: kill him in a death that no one has ever
• 25:09
  Speaker 1: cared about less than the entire right. We're like, good ridden,
• 25:13
  Speaker 1: You're like I was okay, Yeah, You're like, you raise
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: this piece of ship. It's just a fringe benefit to
• 25:21
  Speaker 1: this highest is that we killed the worst characters. Yeah.
• 25:24
  Speaker 1: She's like, oh yeah, by um. So they kill him,
• 25:33
  Speaker 1: but then Alice gets shot in the process. They have
• 25:37
  Speaker 1: to kind of scramble to get away to tem hijacks
• 25:41
  Speaker 1: their van as they're getting away, but then they follow
• 25:46
  Speaker 1: him in another vehicle they crashed into him. They get
• 25:48
  Speaker 1: the money back and it seems like they've successfully pulled
• 25:52
  Speaker 1: off the heist. They drop Alice off at the er
• 25:56
  Speaker 1: and then Veronica goes back to like whatever garage warehouse
• 26:00
  Speaker 1: place is their rendezvous point. But who shows up but
• 26:05
  Speaker 1: Harry Rawlings and he's there to take the money she stole,
• 26:11
  Speaker 1: and she's like, you fucking bastard, and he's about to
• 26:15
  Speaker 1: shoot her, but she shoots and kills him first. Great moment. Yeah,
• 26:21
  Speaker 1: and then we tie up some loose ends with Belle
• 26:25
  Speaker 1: and Linda, and then the movie ends with Veronica running
• 26:30
  Speaker 1: into Alice, who survived her gunshot. It's implied that it's
• 26:34
  Speaker 1: several weeks or months later. They share a little moment
• 26:38
  Speaker 1: where Veronica is like, how are you doing? Cinema? And
• 26:44
  Speaker 1: also Alice has learned to drive at that point, because
• 26:47
  Speaker 1: we learned earlier in the movie that she didn't know
• 26:50
  Speaker 1: how to drive, But then we see her getting into
• 26:52
  Speaker 1: the driver's seat of a car, so it's like, I
• 26:53
  Speaker 1: guess Alice learned to drive. Good for her full arc
• 26:57
  Speaker 1: of an amazing arc. That's the story. So let's take
• 27:01
  Speaker 1: a quick break and then we will come right back
• 27:03
  Speaker 1: to discuss. And we're back. Where shall we start. I
• 27:15
  Speaker 1: kind of want to get I'm tempted to get the
• 27:17
  Speaker 1: stuff that we didn't like out of the way first,
• 27:20
  Speaker 1: or the more critical elements and then we can kind
• 27:23
  Speaker 1: of move into the stuff that was fine. Can I start, yes,
• 27:27
  Speaker 1: please go ahead, I have a gripe. I think it's
• 27:30
  Speaker 1: the second act where Michelarity gets character of Linda. She's
• 27:33
  Speaker 1: she's going she's going to go and she's kind of um,
• 27:36
  Speaker 1: she's going to go visit the man to go to
• 27:39
  Speaker 1: go steal the the prince kind of she's so she's
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: pretending basically, UMA know this man's wife, and then he
• 27:48
  Speaker 1: kind of and then he kind of figured out that
• 27:49
  Speaker 1: that she doesn't um, and then she kind of reveals,
• 27:53
  Speaker 1: you know, that she has lost her husband. And then
• 27:54
  Speaker 1: they like odd they like to make out, and I
• 27:57
  Speaker 1: was like, how did this? This isn't really this is
• 28:00
  Speaker 1: an advanced in the plot. I don't I first said.
• 28:02
  Speaker 1: I was like, I was like, oh, she's doing this
• 28:05
  Speaker 1: like fake him out to get the blueprint. But then
• 28:07
  Speaker 1: I realized, wait, or is it like phase value? And
• 28:11
  Speaker 1: they just like awkwardly made out, and then it kind
• 28:14
  Speaker 1: of seen out of character because I was like, what
• 28:16
  Speaker 1: did she do that? And I was like and I
• 28:18
  Speaker 1: was like, how I just didn't do anything going forward?
• 28:20
  Speaker 1: So we're just sitting here and this is awkward and
• 28:23
  Speaker 1: I was like, this is always so time. I almost
• 28:27
  Speaker 1: forgot that that even happened. Yeah, that was an interesting
• 28:31
  Speaker 1: moment that I felt like that could have been something
• 28:36
  Speaker 1: more exploratory of like grief and all this other stuff,
• 28:40
  Speaker 1: but then it just kind of ended up being confusing
• 28:44
  Speaker 1: and like whatever. It's it's not like people don't trauma
• 28:47
  Speaker 1: bond over certain life events and things get weird sometimes
• 28:52
  Speaker 1: like that definitely happens. I'm not opposed to seeing that
• 28:55
  Speaker 1: in a movie, but you're totally right, Michael Mitchelle where
• 28:57
  Speaker 1: it's like it didn't advance the plot at all, and
• 29:00
  Speaker 1: then it to me kind of came off as like
• 29:02
  Speaker 1: they were just having Michelle Rodriguez's character like use her
• 29:07
  Speaker 1: like womanly Wiles so like advance the plot. And I
• 29:12
  Speaker 1: don't know, I feel like, yeah, there there were I
• 29:15
  Speaker 1: feel like there were better options there on how to
• 29:17
  Speaker 1: or it's like if you're going to make that choice,
• 29:19
  Speaker 1: then like like you're saying, like, have it have more
• 29:22
  Speaker 1: consequence and actually explore it versus like just this very
• 29:26
  Speaker 1: bizarre I mean, it's like it didn't even come up
• 29:28
  Speaker 1: in the summary because it's so kind of like that
• 29:33
  Speaker 1: could have end on point, could have happened in so
• 29:35
  Speaker 1: many different ways. Yeah. Yeah. Every time I've seen this movie,
• 29:39
  Speaker 1: my reaction is always like huh, because then I expected
• 29:43
  Speaker 1: seemed to keep going a little bit and then for
• 29:45
  Speaker 1: him to be like, okay, here, I'll we kissed, so
• 29:48
  Speaker 1: I'll help you out, which also I guess that would
• 29:51
  Speaker 1: have weird implications to probably be kind of lazy too, Yeah,
• 29:55
  Speaker 1: kind of just bizarre. Yeah, so I guess I'm more
• 30:00
  Speaker 1: find that it cut well narratively. It's weird that it
• 30:02
  Speaker 1: doesn't go anywhere. But if it was that she was like, well,
• 30:06
  Speaker 1: I'm going to seduce, like basically exploit the grief I
• 30:10
  Speaker 1: feel about my husband to manipulate and seduce this man,
• 30:14
  Speaker 1: like that would also have been weird and probably not great.
• 30:17
  Speaker 1: It's like who among us hasn't made out with a
• 30:19
  Speaker 1: Rando when they were sad about something. But it was
• 30:22
  Speaker 1: just like the way it was introduced was like, yeah,
• 30:25
  Speaker 1: I felt that say way, Kaitlin, where you're like huh,
• 30:28
  Speaker 1: but then it never comes back, so I don't know shrug.
• 30:32
  Speaker 1: One thing that stuck out to me. I had a
• 30:34
  Speaker 1: few things with this movie that felt just I don't know,
• 30:38
  Speaker 1: and it's like it is nippicky because over all the
• 30:40
  Speaker 1: movies super enjoyable. I'm so glad, like I will absolutely
• 30:44
  Speaker 1: be watching it again. Um. In terms of like the
• 30:47
  Speaker 1: the political side of it, there were some parts of
• 30:51
  Speaker 1: the Jack Mulligan jamal Man in conflict that I thought
• 30:54
  Speaker 1: were like so well executed and so well done, and
• 30:58
  Speaker 1: a lot of it was like in the photography where
• 31:01
  Speaker 1: there's that amazing shot where you're watching Jack Mulligan leave
• 31:07
  Speaker 1: the eighteenth District and drive to his fucking McMansion talking
• 31:12
  Speaker 1: about how little he cares, Like that's so that's brilliant,
• 31:16
  Speaker 1: Like that might be that might be my favorite team
• 31:19
  Speaker 1: in the movie. I think it's that tracking shot and
• 31:22
  Speaker 1: you can't see them and you're just hearing the dialogue
• 31:24
  Speaker 1: as they're moving forward. I just I was like, it's brilliant. Yeah,
• 31:28
  Speaker 1: And it's like once you realize where that's going, it's amazing.
• 31:31
  Speaker 1: And it's like, so you know, obviously like such so
• 31:35
  Speaker 1: unfortunately something that happens in local like in local and
• 31:38
  Speaker 1: national politics constantly, and I thought it was so well executed.
• 31:42
  Speaker 1: I guess the thing that I that kind of chafed
• 31:46
  Speaker 1: me with that plotline was I appreciate and I totally
• 31:50
  Speaker 1: like how the movie and the script really gets into
• 31:54
  Speaker 1: this whatever Kennedy asked, Chicago family that are just like
• 31:58
  Speaker 1: these rich white guy that are clinging onto power. And
• 32:03
  Speaker 1: I mean the Robert Duval character in some ways is
• 32:05
  Speaker 1: like a cartoonist example of of the like extreme lengths
• 32:10
  Speaker 1: that these kind of legacy white families what they'll do
• 32:14
  Speaker 1: to hold onto power. And I wish that we got
• 32:17
  Speaker 1: that same amount of attention to detail with the Mannings,
• 32:23
  Speaker 1: because I feel like we got a lot of information
• 32:25
  Speaker 1: about the Mulligan's. I felt like you really understood what
• 32:29
  Speaker 1: the movie was trying to say about that, like that
• 32:34
  Speaker 1: kind of political dynasty, and I wish that there was
• 32:37
  Speaker 1: because we spend a lot of time with Jamal Manning
• 32:41
  Speaker 1: and with is to Tim to time, I think I
• 32:45
  Speaker 1: just kept being like dlue, yeah, but but but with
• 32:49
  Speaker 1: with those brothers, But I feel like you don't find
• 32:51
  Speaker 1: out as much about them as you do. Like I
• 32:55
  Speaker 1: felt like I knew way more about the Mulligan's than
• 32:57
  Speaker 1: I did about the Mannings, and I wish that that
• 32:59
  Speaker 1: had been more of and even handed plotline because I
• 33:02
  Speaker 1: loved I mean, I'm very interested in your thoughts on
• 33:05
  Speaker 1: the the murder scenes that kind of are taken out
• 33:08
  Speaker 1: because at first I wasn't sure where to fall in it,
• 33:11
  Speaker 1: and I went to watch just some interviews with Steve
• 33:14
  Speaker 1: McQueen to see like what his kind of motivation was
• 33:17
  Speaker 1: with those, and once it became clear that he's like, oh,
• 33:20
  Speaker 1: I'm doing like these are Godfather, this is my Godfather scene,
• 33:24
  Speaker 1: I was like, Okay, Like once I made that connection,
• 33:27
  Speaker 1: it made more sense to me. But I still feel like,
• 33:29
  Speaker 1: you know, with The Godfather, you know a shipload about
• 33:32
  Speaker 1: that family, and so it's like when those murder scenes
• 33:35
  Speaker 1: take place, you thoroughly know who those characters are, what
• 33:39
  Speaker 1: their motivations are, and then you see something really fucked up,
• 33:43
  Speaker 1: and I feel like the Mannings didn't get that. I
• 33:45
  Speaker 1: don't know what what what did y'all think? I felt
• 33:48
  Speaker 1: like a lot of the impact of that it's a
• 33:51
  Speaker 1: lot has a lot to do with with Daniel's performance,
• 33:53
  Speaker 1: but but it's not necessarily because of the writing, and
• 33:56
  Speaker 1: so I don't feel like I feel I feel like
• 33:58
  Speaker 1: it could have been more impactful if, like you said,
• 34:00
  Speaker 1: if you knew, if he knew about their motives, and
• 34:03
  Speaker 1: I thought about I feel like after the first scene,
• 34:06
  Speaker 1: after we first meet him. When he first meeting Um character,
• 34:10
  Speaker 1: you don't he kind of said a little bit beforehand,
• 34:14
  Speaker 1: after him Indiana's character Kum talking about his motivation to
• 34:17
  Speaker 1: kind out front, But after that, you don't really see
• 34:20
  Speaker 1: or hear a lot about about how about how he's
• 34:22
  Speaker 1: kind of feeling at the works, prograssing really or really
• 34:26
  Speaker 1: like anything about his back story. And so I was
• 34:28
  Speaker 1: I was like, visually, that's great, but I don't feel
• 34:31
  Speaker 1: as connectical as I could if I knew why that's
• 34:34
  Speaker 1: what's happening totally. Yeah. There's a scene pretty early on
• 34:38
  Speaker 1: between the two brothers where jattem which, by the way,
• 34:42
  Speaker 1: there's a funny joke, where isn't that like French for
• 34:45
  Speaker 1: I love you? Yeah? I guess it would be more
• 34:47
  Speaker 1: pronounced like Tim. But that's what that's what Jack Mulligan
• 34:52
  Speaker 1: thinks Jatima is saying when he's introducing himself, because then
• 34:55
  Speaker 1: he says, I love you too. I didn't even pick
• 34:59
  Speaker 1: up on that, And then Daniel Killerya is just like
• 35:03
  Speaker 1: what but um, anyway, j Tim is talking to his
• 35:07
  Speaker 1: brother and he's like, why do you even want to
• 35:09
  Speaker 1: get into politics? And then Jamal sites, well, yeah, I mean,
• 35:14
  Speaker 1: an alderman makes whatever salary per year and a times like,
• 35:19
  Speaker 1: well we make that in a week, implied that like
• 35:22
  Speaker 1: they're kind of like criminal activity was way more lucrative.
• 35:28
  Speaker 1: And then he's saying, well, yeah, but you stand to
• 35:30
  Speaker 1: make a lot more money with different contracts and you know,
• 35:34
  Speaker 1: like building developments and blah blah blah this stuff. And
• 35:38
  Speaker 1: when that happens, people come after you with cameras and
• 35:40
  Speaker 1: microphones versus before when when we were doing what we
• 35:44
  Speaker 1: were doing, people were coming after us with guns and
• 35:46
  Speaker 1: I'm thirty seven, Like, I don't want that life anymore.
• 35:49
  Speaker 1: So it's established that part of Jamala's motivation is he
• 35:52
  Speaker 1: kind of like wants to quote unquote straighten out um
• 35:56
  Speaker 1: or like you know, live a more virtuous life, I guess,
• 36:00
  Speaker 1: which is hilarious to think of as a politician. Um right,
• 36:05
  Speaker 1: if you're like, yeah, sure, the city council really doing
• 36:08
  Speaker 1: the good work, right, but um, I mean, and that's
• 36:11
  Speaker 1: like really interesting insight. And I wish we then got
• 36:14
  Speaker 1: more information like that, But as far as I can remember,
• 36:17
  Speaker 1: there wasn't much else in the way of that type
• 36:21
  Speaker 1: of characterization for the Mannings. No, And I was kind
• 36:25
  Speaker 1: of surprised because it's like it is such a rich
• 36:29
  Speaker 1: set up and I feel like, especially like Jamal and
• 36:32
  Speaker 1: Jettam are such compelling characters and both played by fucking
• 36:37
  Speaker 1: unbelievable actors, and then there's not enough backstory given to
• 36:42
  Speaker 1: really like, I felt like, bring those characters to have
• 36:44
  Speaker 1: the impact that they could have and should have. The
• 36:49
  Speaker 1: other main gripe I had with this movie revolves around
• 36:54
  Speaker 1: the character of Bobby Welsh. He is the character who
• 36:59
  Speaker 1: owns the Bowling Alley. He is a friend slash associate
• 37:04
  Speaker 1: of Harry Rawlings. He seems to know about the like
• 37:07
  Speaker 1: various robberies that he pulls off. The character uses a wheelchair,
• 37:13
  Speaker 1: but the actor Kevin J O'Connor does not, So another
• 37:18
  Speaker 1: example of a able bodied actor playing a disabled character.
• 37:24
  Speaker 1: Just how disabled at it? Just they exist there there.
• 37:29
  Speaker 1: It can't be a little struggle. I just why it's
• 37:32
  Speaker 1: not hard, couldn't be easier. They're out there. And then
• 37:35
  Speaker 1: the other thing with this character is that we see
• 37:39
  Speaker 1: him being brutalized in a way that is very specific
• 37:43
  Speaker 1: to the character's disability because he is shoved out of
• 37:47
  Speaker 1: his wheelchair. He is then stabbed in the legs several
• 37:52
  Speaker 1: times by j Tem because ja Tem knows that he
• 37:55
  Speaker 1: can't feel it because he's paralyzed from his waist down.
• 37:59
  Speaker 1: It's a very long, drawn out scene, and I guess
• 38:03
  Speaker 1: the function of the scene is to just show how
• 38:06
  Speaker 1: relentless and dangerous Jettem is. But we already know that
• 38:10
  Speaker 1: because we've seen him a people He made yeah, I
• 38:16
  Speaker 1: mean he was making those two guys freestyle and then
• 38:18
  Speaker 1: killed the mid freestyle, like we know that he is
• 38:22
  Speaker 1: d t K. He's down to kill. It felt unnecessarily long,
• 38:31
  Speaker 1: and every time I watched it, I have to just
• 38:33
  Speaker 1: give it. I'm like, I can't it just it feels
• 38:36
  Speaker 1: unnecessarily cool, and I'm like, I'm not I'm not gonna
• 38:38
  Speaker 1: sit here and I'm not gonna see her here, and
• 38:40
  Speaker 1: and watched this, I can't. Yeah, I can't do it totally.
• 38:44
  Speaker 1: Especially it feels I think it might be a trope
• 38:47
  Speaker 1: at this point in media, where a disabled character is
• 38:53
  Speaker 1: very unnecessarily brutalized. And then I was foreshadowing this earlier,
• 38:59
  Speaker 1: but the scene where Jamal comes in and like his
• 39:03
  Speaker 1: guys kill bash. Compare this scene with the way that
• 39:10
  Speaker 1: the Bobby Welsh character is brutalized to the Bash scene,
• 39:13
  Speaker 1: because all the violence in the Bash getting killed scene
• 39:17
  Speaker 1: is implied off screen. It happens off screen because then
• 39:21
  Speaker 1: you pan over to which attem watching football and you
• 39:25
  Speaker 1: only like hear the violence but you don't see it.
• 39:28
  Speaker 1: So like just that dichotomy of like we see a
• 39:31
  Speaker 1: long scene of a character with a disability being brutalized
• 39:35
  Speaker 1: versus in that very specific way, yes, yeah, versus the
• 39:39
  Speaker 1: able bodied character that happens off screen, and that just
• 39:43
  Speaker 1: felt very unnecessary and gross and didn't like it. I
• 39:48
  Speaker 1: think also if it felt like the attack for the
• 39:51
  Speaker 1: diity of character felt felt very specific to that disability,
• 39:55
  Speaker 1: and then and then to keep showing it over and
• 39:57
  Speaker 1: over on camera, it felt like it's kind of taking
• 39:59
  Speaker 1: away the dignity from the character as opposed to say,
• 40:02
  Speaker 1: a body character and giving him the dignity. I'm not
• 40:04
  Speaker 1: having us watch it. I was just like that was
• 40:07
  Speaker 1: really unnecessary, right, yeah, And I mean and it's even
• 40:11
  Speaker 1: from I mean, I feel like the more you get
• 40:13
  Speaker 1: into it is like, even from a story perspective, those
• 40:16
  Speaker 1: two choices feel very pointed because you would think Bash
• 40:20
  Speaker 1: is a character that we know much better, So the
• 40:23
  Speaker 1: impact of seeing him get killed on screen would theoretically
• 40:27
  Speaker 1: be greater than watching Bobby, a character we barely know,
• 40:31
  Speaker 1: be brutalized for in a much longer scene, like you
• 40:34
  Speaker 1: were both saying, and so it does kind of come
• 40:37
  Speaker 1: down to I don't know. I mean, it's I it's
• 40:41
  Speaker 1: hard because it's like I don't want to come down
• 40:43
  Speaker 1: hard on this movie. But like that choice, You're totally right.
• 40:46
  Speaker 1: I mean it's it's very, very pointed, and it doesn't
• 40:49
  Speaker 1: even make it. It makes no story sense. There's no
• 40:53
  Speaker 1: there's no real argument for any of it to happen. Yeah,
• 40:58
  Speaker 1: my last Okay, so this is kind of, I guess
• 41:01
  Speaker 1: gets us into what we will probably be talking about
• 41:05
  Speaker 1: a lot more, which is the Widows. So let's let's
• 41:09
  Speaker 1: get into Widows. I okay, I was genuinely I I
• 41:14
  Speaker 1: read um, I watched the whole movie through, was taken
• 41:19
  Speaker 1: my little notes and by the end of the movie.
• 41:23
  Speaker 1: Let me know if I'm off here from being like
• 41:25
  Speaker 1: overly picky, I felt like the widows did not know
• 41:30
  Speaker 1: each other well enough. I was not like they weren't
• 41:33
  Speaker 1: friends ever. And that is not really a Bechtel Cast
• 41:39
  Speaker 1: style criticism. I feel like it's more of a story
• 41:41
  Speaker 1: criticism for me where I read a really good piece
• 41:46
  Speaker 1: from a Vice writer named Amor Mercer who did kind
• 41:50
  Speaker 1: of a comparative study between Widows and set it Off,
• 41:54
  Speaker 1: a movie that we've covered on the show and is
• 41:57
  Speaker 1: so good and it it's, you know, an all female
• 42:00
  Speaker 1: highst It's it's incredible and is dealing with some I mean,
• 42:06
  Speaker 1: it's definitely not a one to one comparison, but I
• 42:10
  Speaker 1: don't know. As I was just reading her kind of
• 42:12
  Speaker 1: comparative essay between the two movies, I was like, oh, yeah,
• 42:15
  Speaker 1: part of I mean, there's so many things that makes
• 42:18
  Speaker 1: Set It Off a compelling movie to watch, but a
• 42:20
  Speaker 1: lot of it is like the relationships between the women
• 42:24
  Speaker 1: performing the highest and how their relationships grow and change
• 42:29
  Speaker 1: over the movie. I felt like it's just like so
• 42:32
  Speaker 1: well done and so when as things continue to happen,
• 42:35
  Speaker 1: you really feel it. And I didn't quite feel that
• 42:38
  Speaker 1: kind of like connection between the widows where they're definitely
• 42:42
  Speaker 1: like their relationships develop, but then there were some relationships
• 42:46
  Speaker 1: that felt kind of forced to me or like they
• 42:48
  Speaker 1: didn't totally make sense or I don't know, I just
• 42:52
  Speaker 1: I this is maybe just like a personal taste thing
• 42:55
  Speaker 1: but I'm like, I wish that I understood how they
• 42:57
  Speaker 1: felt about each other a little more. It felt a
• 42:59
  Speaker 1: little vague to me. No, I I feel the same
• 43:03
  Speaker 1: way in that. Yeah, I agree that one of the
• 43:07
  Speaker 1: most compelling things about Set It Off is the relationship.
• 43:10
  Speaker 1: And honestly, any kind of like get the team together
• 43:13
  Speaker 1: and pull law job kind of movie, you usually get
• 43:18
  Speaker 1: a lot of tension and intrigue and theme and comic
• 43:24
  Speaker 1: relief and a lot of the things that like make
• 43:27
  Speaker 1: a story great from the relationship between the characters, and
• 43:32
  Speaker 1: we obviously see them interact quite a bit, although there
• 43:36
  Speaker 1: is an awful lot of screen time dedicated to like
• 43:40
  Speaker 1: Jack Mulligan and other characters I don't care about and
• 43:45
  Speaker 1: I hate. But I was like, yeah, I would have
• 43:48
  Speaker 1: liked to see more interaction between the widows and just
• 43:54
  Speaker 1: more screen time dedicated to the way those relationships develop up.
• 44:00
  Speaker 1: And yeah, it felt like there was a lot of
• 44:02
  Speaker 1: like I mean, and again it's like it's a romp,
• 44:05
  Speaker 1: it's a movie, Like I get it, But but there
• 44:07
  Speaker 1: was a lot of like, I feel like, the main
• 44:09
  Speaker 1: thing you got out of them talking was kind of
• 44:11
  Speaker 1: surface level class discussion, which is which is worthwhile and
• 44:16
  Speaker 1: I'm glad that it happened, but it sort of just
• 44:19
  Speaker 1: felt like some of the only interactions between certain pairs
• 44:23
  Speaker 1: in the um in the Widows universe was like, oh, okay,
• 44:29
  Speaker 1: so Alice and Linda they're both working class, and so
• 44:33
  Speaker 1: they're going to have a three line exchange about how
• 44:35
  Speaker 1: they're working class and they feel like Veronica doesn't get it,
• 44:38
  Speaker 1: and then you don't really get much more with those characters.
• 44:41
  Speaker 1: They just sort of established, like we have this thing
• 44:43
  Speaker 1: in common, but then it doesn't really I don't know,
• 44:46
  Speaker 1: I just wish that like some of those issues got
• 44:50
  Speaker 1: more explored, and it felt like some things were like
• 44:52
  Speaker 1: stated but then not really followed through on. I don't know.
• 44:57
  Speaker 1: I feel like I feel like a lot of the classes,
• 45:00
  Speaker 1: I feel like we're discussed more. What's the political storyline?
• 45:03
  Speaker 1: I feel like Widows and I was like, oh, I
• 45:07
  Speaker 1: thought it was interesting. I like to be able to
• 45:10
  Speaker 1: handle both. But I was like, but the primary story
• 45:12
  Speaker 1: is the Widow, so why not or why not have
• 45:15
  Speaker 1: them converge more. That's a great point. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
• 45:18
  Speaker 1: because it's like I mean, it's not like the characters
• 45:20
  Speaker 1: that are established wouldn't be able to like very easily
• 45:24
  Speaker 1: have those conversation. But You're totally right. It's like we
• 45:28
  Speaker 1: see Jack and Jamal have those discussions more in depth
• 45:32
  Speaker 1: than we see some of the widows have those. I
• 45:36
  Speaker 1: totally agree with that, and I feel like there were
• 45:39
  Speaker 1: I feel like we got to know Veronica and Alice well,
• 45:45
  Speaker 1: and then the other two women we did not really
• 45:48
  Speaker 1: find very much out about, to the point where it
• 45:51
  Speaker 1: was like their arcs weren't didn't feel like they were
• 45:54
  Speaker 1: as impactful, because I mean, it's like, what do we
• 45:58
  Speaker 1: really know about Michelle Rodriguez's character other than she's now
• 46:03
  Speaker 1: a single mom of two who used to own a
• 46:07
  Speaker 1: business but now it doesn't like that's kind of it.
• 46:10
  Speaker 1: She doesn't really have any depth beyond that, And it
• 46:14
  Speaker 1: would almost it would almost kind of sees what if
• 46:16
  Speaker 1: she maybe maybe if she want to mention but but
• 46:19
  Speaker 1: was still kind of more involved and had screen time,
• 46:21
  Speaker 1: but she doesn't really have preetime either, and then they
• 46:24
  Speaker 1: kind of have her bringing another character, Valdas, also doesn't
• 46:28
  Speaker 1: really get dimensions, So I'm like, you had I want
• 46:30
  Speaker 1: a character that doesn't get dimention thing they get to mention,
• 46:33
  Speaker 1: and so they just kind of just kind of floating
• 46:36
  Speaker 1: and I thought it was interesting the way that they
• 46:38
  Speaker 1: had bell and and Ronda kind of face off to
• 46:41
  Speaker 1: it when she's introduced and she kind of asserts herself
• 46:44
  Speaker 1: and is like freaking directly off, like okay, it's interesting
• 46:47
  Speaker 1: like contrast. But but then she gets at the car
• 46:50
  Speaker 1: and just kind of leaves, and I was like, she's
• 46:54
  Speaker 1: so you're just so we're just we're not going to
• 46:56
  Speaker 1: explore okay, all right, right, It's like Cynthia Rivo is
• 47:00
  Speaker 1: like so unbelievably talented, and but like her character comes
• 47:04
  Speaker 1: in forty five minutes into the movie, I think, and
• 47:07
  Speaker 1: then it's like, oh, we're gonna have to play catch up.
• 47:09
  Speaker 1: We've got to like we've got to get her really
• 47:11
  Speaker 1: involved if she's gonna you know. But but then it's
• 47:14
  Speaker 1: like they don't really follow through on that where I
• 47:19
  Speaker 1: really liked how that sequence with her getting to the
• 47:24
  Speaker 1: second job was composed, and like that was another really
• 47:26
  Speaker 1: cool cinematography moment where she gets home and she sees
• 47:31
  Speaker 1: her daughter for a second, but then she gets a
• 47:33
  Speaker 1: call from it turns out Michelle Rodriguez saying, Hey, I
• 47:37
  Speaker 1: need a sitter, and she's in such financial straits that
• 47:40
  Speaker 1: she has to run to catch the bus to get
• 47:42
  Speaker 1: to a second job, and I was like, that was
• 47:44
  Speaker 1: such a well executed sequence and sets her character and
• 47:49
  Speaker 1: her kind of predicament up, But then where does it go?
• 47:52
  Speaker 1: Like I feel like, yeah, her character deserved a more
• 47:56
  Speaker 1: complete arc and like more relations chips with the women
• 48:01
  Speaker 1: she was around, and it just felt like, I don't know.
• 48:04
  Speaker 1: I mean, I guess that there are kind of two
• 48:06
  Speaker 1: movies going on inside of this movie, which I'm not
• 48:09
  Speaker 1: opposed to, but it's like the movie is called Widows.
• 48:13
  Speaker 1: I would like to know about the widow Widows. Yeah,
• 48:17
  Speaker 1: I have to imagine that part of that is a
• 48:20
  Speaker 1: byproduct of the movie being adapted from a TV series.
• 48:26
  Speaker 1: It's adapted from a nineteen eight three British TV series
• 48:30
  Speaker 1: also called Widows from I think like writer creator Linda
• 48:36
  Speaker 1: la Plant and that was a several episode narrative. I
• 48:43
  Speaker 1: haven't seen it, and I don't know much about the series,
• 48:45
  Speaker 1: so I don't know exactly what was like lifted from
• 48:49
  Speaker 1: that and put into this adaptation, or you know, what
• 48:52
  Speaker 1: was left out. But I I wonder if some of
• 48:55
  Speaker 1: what feels kind of condensed and it's just like thoroughly developed,
• 49:01
  Speaker 1: is because there's like actually more story than a feature
• 49:06
  Speaker 1: length film has time to tell. I don't know, I'm
• 49:10
  Speaker 1: not gonna let them quite get away with that. Well, yeah,
• 49:13
  Speaker 1: I don't think it's an excuse, but I think it's
• 49:15
  Speaker 1: maybe like a reason. I did a little bit of
• 49:18
  Speaker 1: research on it. I did not watch the series. I
• 49:20
  Speaker 1: was unable to find it, but um I did. I
• 49:23
  Speaker 1: watched a bunch of interviews with Steve McQueen, and I
• 49:26
  Speaker 1: guess that he had really wanted to adapt this series specifically.
• 49:31
  Speaker 1: I guess it's something he saw when he was a
• 49:33
  Speaker 1: kid and he was like really into it, and he
• 49:37
  Speaker 1: gave we can link to this interview, but um, he
• 49:42
  Speaker 1: was really compelled by the mini series when he was
• 49:45
  Speaker 1: a kid, because I think it's like equally hit upon
• 49:48
  Speaker 1: in that eighties mini series that a lot of the
• 49:51
  Speaker 1: reason that the widows are able to get away with
• 49:55
  Speaker 1: this heist is because they're underestimated by everyone around them,
• 50:00
  Speaker 1: because they're women, because they're women. And Steve McQueen gave
• 50:04
  Speaker 1: an interview where he was like, and I really connected
• 50:06
  Speaker 1: to that because I was a young black kid growing
• 50:09
  Speaker 1: up in London and I felt like I was also
• 50:11
  Speaker 1: constantly underestimated and so it was a story that really
• 50:15
  Speaker 1: resonated with me, even though it wasn't like a one
• 50:18
  Speaker 1: to one thing, And so I thought like his connection
• 50:20
  Speaker 1: to the story was really cool, and that Gillian Flynn
• 50:24
  Speaker 1: was brought in was like also interesting. And but I
• 50:28
  Speaker 1: don't really like, yeah, I don't, I don't know. I
• 50:32
  Speaker 1: it seems like, I mean, the original source material seems
• 50:35
  Speaker 1: pretty different in that, like the basic premise is the same,
• 50:39
  Speaker 1: but Steve McQueen and Jillian and Gillian Flynn have changed
• 50:42
  Speaker 1: the setting, they have changed the time period, They've changed
• 50:46
  Speaker 1: a lot of stuff. So I feel like they had
• 50:49
  Speaker 1: already taken enough creative updating and liberties to kind of
• 50:52
  Speaker 1: course correct some of this stuff that And I mean
• 50:55
  Speaker 1: it's like we don't who knows the kind of studio
• 50:58
  Speaker 1: notes movies like highst movies go through and in any
• 51:01
  Speaker 1: movies go through. So I'm not saying it's like all
• 51:04
  Speaker 1: on them, but there were certain things that was like
• 51:07
  Speaker 1: they've already changed a lot about the source material, so
• 51:10
  Speaker 1: why not give half of the widows a story? Like
• 51:15
  Speaker 1: I don't know, Yeah, I don't know. Um, let's take
• 51:19
  Speaker 1: a quick break and then we'll come back for more
• 51:23
  Speaker 1: discussion and we're back. Um, should we get into what
• 51:34
  Speaker 1: works more effectively in this movie, such as it's fun
• 51:40
  Speaker 1: and I like it this I suppose it is a romp,
• 51:45
  Speaker 1: but it's more it's a way darker, more serious romp
• 51:47
  Speaker 1: than I usually associate with romps. It's a serious romp.
• 51:52
  Speaker 1: It's a heavy romp. Yeah, yeah, But I mean I
• 51:56
  Speaker 1: find it really cool and compelling that there's a lot
• 52:01
  Speaker 1: of commentary being made throughout the movie on things like class, race,
• 52:06
  Speaker 1: and gender, because a lot of heist movies do not
• 52:10
  Speaker 1: bother with any kind of social commentary. It's usually just
• 52:13
  Speaker 1: a bunch of white guys who decide to steal money
• 52:17
  Speaker 1: for sometimes no reason, or sometimes it's because, you know,
• 52:22
  Speaker 1: George Clooney wants to have a dick measuring contest with
• 52:27
  Speaker 1: Andy Garcia for example. That is I mean, I am
• 52:30
  Speaker 1: still waiting for that movie where a diverse group of
• 52:34
  Speaker 1: women steal a bunch of ships for no reason, Like
• 52:38
  Speaker 1: I feel like that is deserved because it's like I
• 52:42
  Speaker 1: was thinking about, like this movie and Oceans eight, where
• 52:46
  Speaker 1: it's like their reasons for stealing are still virtuous enough
• 52:52
  Speaker 1: that they're not like evil people, or it's like what
• 52:55
  Speaker 1: let the women be evil, just like no one asks
• 52:59
  Speaker 1: why George Clooney wants this money. Can't Viola Davis just
• 53:02
  Speaker 1: steal two million dollars, just let her do it. But this,
• 53:05
  Speaker 1: I like that this movie does what it does. I
• 53:07
  Speaker 1: totally agree, and I think also I think what I say,
• 53:12
  Speaker 1: I do kind of like that they're not friends in
• 53:14
  Speaker 1: a way. I kind of what does when I think
• 53:16
  Speaker 1: I thought was school, I felt I feel like a
• 53:18
  Speaker 1: lot of I feel like a lot of temo the fact.
• 53:20
  Speaker 1: Now it's like, oh, they're all somehow interconnected and they're
• 53:23
  Speaker 1: all friends. But I do kind of like, I think
• 53:25
  Speaker 1: I like that this I felt like what was the
• 53:28
  Speaker 1: most ground in reality? I felt like and I felt
• 53:30
  Speaker 1: that these women just aren't friends, but they did come
• 53:32
  Speaker 1: together in the for survival. That what I got? What
• 53:37
  Speaker 1: do you like? And then and then I do other things.
• 53:40
  Speaker 1: I do think. I do think the crime was kind
• 53:42
  Speaker 1: of heavy butody, but I do feel he's able to
• 53:45
  Speaker 1: hand on the boat without dropping the ball on either
• 53:48
  Speaker 1: really so at the run times, I feel those are
• 53:52
  Speaker 1: definitely my favorite's my favorite aspect. Yeah, yeah, absolutely yeah.
• 53:57
  Speaker 1: And then we also like see them fumble and they
• 54:01
  Speaker 1: you know, Michelle rock Riguez is like, what the hell
• 54:05
  Speaker 1: am I supposed to do with this blueprint? And Veronica
• 54:08
  Speaker 1: is like, by being smarter than you are being right now.
• 54:12
  Speaker 1: So it's it's cool that like we see them come
• 54:15
  Speaker 1: together under these high stakes circumstances and have to figure
• 54:21
  Speaker 1: it out along the way, right, and have like realistic conflict,
• 54:25
  Speaker 1: right because like even though this is what like their
• 54:28
  Speaker 1: husbands did professionally, like they are not trained skilled high stirs, thieves, etcetera.
• 54:36
  Speaker 1: That training was also one of my favorite parts of
• 54:39
  Speaker 1: the movie because she just Veronic could just sounds like
• 54:42
  Speaker 1: this really I like Jim Teacher and they're just like,
• 54:44
  Speaker 1: we hate you, and I'm just like there was some
• 54:48
  Speaker 1: I don't know if either of you watched. I didn't.
• 54:50
  Speaker 1: I watched like the first two or three seasons, but
• 54:53
  Speaker 1: How to Get Away with Murder, But there were some
• 54:55
  Speaker 1: moments in this movie that I was like, oh, this
• 54:58
  Speaker 1: is like full on Analy's keating moments where it's just
• 55:02
  Speaker 1: like Viola Davis is like, why are you incompetent? Which
• 55:05
  Speaker 1: is basically that entire show. Oh my god. My favorite.
• 55:09
  Speaker 1: One of my favorite exchanges is when Veronica is like,
• 55:13
  Speaker 1: here's two thousand dollars, get some guns, and Alice is like, guns,
• 55:18
  Speaker 1: where am I going to get guns? And Veronica was like,
• 55:21
  Speaker 1: this is America, a k you can get guns like
• 55:25
  Speaker 1: everywhere out literally. That was also also one of my
• 55:31
  Speaker 1: favorite things I think was the gun things I got. Also,
• 55:33
  Speaker 1: it was really um interesting kind of like to square
• 55:37
  Speaker 1: Alf's character. I think also was really when she approaches
• 55:41
  Speaker 1: that woman and like pretends to be I think a
• 55:45
  Speaker 1: mail order bride, and the little girl is like, Mommy,
• 55:50
  Speaker 1: you always said a gun is a girl's best friend,
• 55:52
  Speaker 1: and You're like, oh no, this woman is like indoctrinating
• 55:55
  Speaker 1: her young daughter into like toxic gun culture already. But
• 56:00
  Speaker 1: then also you think about, like, well, what is their
• 56:04
  Speaker 1: background in personal history, and like what motivations would that
• 56:07
  Speaker 1: mother have for her daughter to want to be able
• 56:09
  Speaker 1: to defend herself. Like It's which I feel like also
• 56:12
  Speaker 1: connects directly to Alice's character, who is like there's so
• 56:19
  Speaker 1: much time put into like the various ways in which
• 56:23
  Speaker 1: Alice has been traumatized to the point where it's like
• 56:26
  Speaker 1: I felt I felt a lot of Gillian Flynn coming
• 56:29
  Speaker 1: through with that Alice character, where and this isn't even
• 56:32
  Speaker 1: really a criticism, but just like this is a subject
• 56:35
  Speaker 1: matter that Gillian Flynn seems to take on frequently in
• 56:39
  Speaker 1: her work, which is like mother daughter trauma and like
• 56:44
  Speaker 1: toxic cycles between mothers and daughters specifically, which I think
• 56:48
  Speaker 1: is kind of an under explored topic in media in general,
• 56:53
  Speaker 1: where it's like we make the joke on this show
• 56:55
  Speaker 1: that like every movie is about fathers and sons. But
• 56:59
  Speaker 1: with Alice, it's like the the kind of like core
• 57:03
  Speaker 1: of her character is that she was abused and manipulated
• 57:08
  Speaker 1: by her mother and also by her husband, and like
• 57:13
  Speaker 1: has this gigantic kind of crisis of self esteem and
• 57:18
  Speaker 1: confidence in sense of self because she has been so
• 57:22
  Speaker 1: controlled for her entire life in a way that is
• 57:26
  Speaker 1: like I mean, it's it's almost like so much that
• 57:29
  Speaker 1: I'm like, do we have enough time in this movie
• 57:31
  Speaker 1: to really address all of this? Like that scene with
• 57:34
  Speaker 1: her mother was fucking brutal, but yeah, I mean it's
• 57:39
  Speaker 1: so this is like kind of where in this movie,
• 57:42
  Speaker 1: I I get to another point where it's like this
• 57:45
  Speaker 1: was going somewhere, but it felt like there wasn't enough
• 57:48
  Speaker 1: time or whatever it was to like follow through on
• 57:51
  Speaker 1: the seriousness of what was set up where I guess
• 57:55
  Speaker 1: like it's it almost felt like, I don't know, like
• 57:58
  Speaker 1: almost like a little bit girl power feminism for Alice
• 58:01
  Speaker 1: by the end to be like I'm my own woman
• 58:04
  Speaker 1: now and I'm at school and everything is great, and
• 58:09
  Speaker 1: it just I mean, it's very movie I guess because
• 58:12
  Speaker 1: if they set her up with severe trauma and then
• 58:15
  Speaker 1: they're like and then she went to college and made
• 58:17
  Speaker 1: one friend and you're like, well that okay, like it
• 58:22
  Speaker 1: it feels a little undercooked to me. But I don't know,
• 58:25
  Speaker 1: I I appreciate again, like you're saying, Caitlin, like the
• 58:28
  Speaker 1: fact that this was even tackled in the highest genre
• 58:31
  Speaker 1: is huge. Yeah, I think a lot of the effective commentary.
• 58:37
  Speaker 1: I mean I actually kind of appreciated that it it
• 58:40
  Speaker 1: didn't dwell on the whole, like, well where women but
• 58:45
  Speaker 1: we can still do this. There's only one There's a
• 58:49
  Speaker 1: very trailer scene where Viola Davis is like, we have
• 58:52
  Speaker 1: the balls. They don't think we have the balls to
• 58:56
  Speaker 1: do this. You're like, alright, alright, we get it. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 59:00
  Speaker 1: She says like we have to move and think like
• 59:02
  Speaker 1: a team of men. The best thing we have going
• 59:05
  Speaker 1: for us is being what we are, implied women, because
• 59:09
  Speaker 1: no one thinks we have the balls to pull this off,
• 59:11
  Speaker 1: which I think is like an appropriate amount of discussion
• 59:14
  Speaker 1: about that. If it had gone much more beyond that,
• 59:17
  Speaker 1: I would have, um, like, that would be a little
• 59:20
  Speaker 1: eye rolly to me. It's like, yeah, we know, that
• 59:23
  Speaker 1: would almost feel it was like a movie directed at
• 59:26
  Speaker 1: men to like remind men, yes, women are capable, Yes
• 59:30
  Speaker 1: we can do ship like look at her with a
• 59:33
  Speaker 1: gun and kicking like, But because the movie doesn't dwell
• 59:37
  Speaker 1: on that, it just to me made it more accessible
• 59:41
  Speaker 1: for me at least, right you know, I was like, okay, this,
• 59:44
  Speaker 1: you're you're speaking my language. Um. And then I wanted
• 59:48
  Speaker 1: to share a quote from Viola Davis from that same interview.
• 59:52
  Speaker 1: I think that you were referencing Jamie from The New
• 59:54
  Speaker 1: York Times right by Reggie Gogo, who says Viola Davis
• 59:59
  Speaker 1: says about the movie quote, this movie is a realistic
• 1:00:03
  Speaker 1: journey into women gaining ownership of their of their lives,
• 1:00:07
  Speaker 1: and not at the expense of who they are. The
• 1:00:09
  Speaker 1: feminine energy and the vulnerability are still there, but I
• 1:00:13
  Speaker 1: think it's a fantasy and every woman to do something
• 1:00:15
  Speaker 1: bold and brash and not nice, to bust out of
• 1:00:18
  Speaker 1: themselves and this and social norms to get at some
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 1: level of authenticity. I think that's what attracts people. I know,
• 1:00:25
  Speaker 1: that's what attracts me. End quote. I know, ah, and
• 1:00:31
  Speaker 1: that is largely what attracts me to this movie as well,
• 1:00:35
  Speaker 1: like what compels me about it. Um. Yeah. And then
• 1:00:40
  Speaker 1: in addition to that kind of like that gender commentary, UM,
• 1:00:45
  Speaker 1: I think there's also effective class commentary and race commentary
• 1:00:51
  Speaker 1: embodied a lot in the particularly like the race conversation
• 1:00:56
  Speaker 1: in like the Jack Mulligan versus them All Manning, And
• 1:01:02
  Speaker 1: that was another thing also. I also I also kind
• 1:01:04
  Speaker 1: of thought about kind of when you're looking at the race,
• 1:01:07
  Speaker 1: if you look at kind of conversation between Jack and
• 1:01:08
  Speaker 1: his dad, he's he's he comes off as the more moral,
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 1: better human kind of um, the more moral between the two,
• 1:01:15
  Speaker 1: and then you kind of opposed with him and jam
• 1:01:17
  Speaker 1: All and then he's kind of and and then he's
• 1:01:19
  Speaker 1: the kind of the last moral, the more evil, I guess,
• 1:01:22
  Speaker 1: I guess. But but also um, but also neither of
• 1:01:26
  Speaker 1: them are also like morally right, and so I love
• 1:01:29
  Speaker 1: that the phone both both comments. I love that it
• 1:01:32
  Speaker 1: comes on a couple of things. One kind of um
• 1:01:35
  Speaker 1: kind of because then then it also gives Jack kind
• 1:01:38
  Speaker 1: of credit, I guess, for being like a kind of
• 1:01:40
  Speaker 1: basic um we're not going for like basic um basic
• 1:01:44
  Speaker 1: beauty as a white man as opposed to kind of
• 1:01:47
  Speaker 1: his more cotween his father, but within they're both kind
• 1:01:50
  Speaker 1: of more wrally wrong totally I guess if that makes sense. Yeah,
• 1:01:54
  Speaker 1: I thought that that, uh, one of the things that
• 1:01:57
  Speaker 1: that storyline got too. Pretty effectively, it's like some I mean,
• 1:02:02
  Speaker 1: it's not like dwelled on in any significant way, but
• 1:02:05
  Speaker 1: like almost generational commentary where I feel like it's pretty
• 1:02:09
  Speaker 1: clearly telegraphed that the Mulligan's the father and the son.
• 1:02:13
  Speaker 1: No one gives a ship about the people in the
• 1:02:16
  Speaker 1: eighteenth district there. They don't care. They're more obsessed with
• 1:02:20
  Speaker 1: keeping power than anything else, Like they don't give a fuck,
• 1:02:24
  Speaker 1: But the ways that they don't give a funk are
• 1:02:26
  Speaker 1: very indicative of their generation. Where Robert Duval's character is
• 1:02:31
  Speaker 1: just openly racist, like completely mask off, horrifying to watch
• 1:02:37
  Speaker 1: and listen to, and then Colin Ferrell's character is almost
• 1:02:41
  Speaker 1: like this more gen x iteration of that same racism
• 1:02:47
  Speaker 1: and classism and dismissal of his constituents, but he's like
• 1:02:51
  Speaker 1: more polite about it, and he doesn't say the quiet
• 1:02:54
  Speaker 1: part loud, like it's it's very I don't know, like
• 1:02:58
  Speaker 1: there were moments in that story and that we're really
• 1:03:00
  Speaker 1: difficult to watch, but in a way that it's like
• 1:03:04
  Speaker 1: they were being pretty effective in the way that it's like,
• 1:03:08
  Speaker 1: well and the and the bleakest part of it is
• 1:03:11
  Speaker 1: by the end whatever I mean, Jack Mulligan wins on
• 1:03:14
  Speaker 1: the sympathy vote because Robert daval was murdered, and so
• 1:03:19
  Speaker 1: if you look at it one way, it's like we
• 1:03:21
  Speaker 1: know that Jack Mulligan doesn't actually want this job, he
• 1:03:24
  Speaker 1: doesn't care, he feels so bad for himself and he
• 1:03:28
  Speaker 1: feels cursed by having to do this job. But ultimately
• 1:03:32
  Speaker 1: it's the eighteenth district who loses because they're subjected to
• 1:03:36
  Speaker 1: yet another term of uh nepotism, white guy who doesn't
• 1:03:41
  Speaker 1: give a ship and is just completely phoning it in,
• 1:03:44
  Speaker 1: And it's like that political cycle is I don't I mean,
• 1:03:50
  Speaker 1: it's it's such a real thing and very I don't know,
• 1:03:54
  Speaker 1: like I feel like there are some ways where like
• 1:03:56
  Speaker 1: that area of the story was so effectively done, and
• 1:04:01
  Speaker 1: then it was like, but I wish that I don't know.
• 1:04:03
  Speaker 1: I was trying to think of was like I wish
• 1:04:05
  Speaker 1: that like one of the widows worked in politics more meaningfully,
• 1:04:10
  Speaker 1: or there was more connection between those two storylines that
• 1:04:13
  Speaker 1: like fused them together, because at different times it felt
• 1:04:16
  Speaker 1: like it was separate. That was what I remember kind
• 1:04:19
  Speaker 1: of in that scene between Jack and Ronica, what would
• 1:04:22
  Speaker 1: you kind of go then? And I kind of pretend
• 1:04:24
  Speaker 1: that it's kind of something to do with school digit
• 1:04:26
  Speaker 1: and actually kind of asking for help. I wish I
• 1:04:29
  Speaker 1: said her job had said some how been ebolding, maybe
• 1:04:32
  Speaker 1: working with him in some way, because if you can
• 1:04:34
  Speaker 1: make her the main character half a direct have that
• 1:04:36
  Speaker 1: been the direct link? I feel like that would have
• 1:04:39
  Speaker 1: been more effective. Yeah, I because Veronica teachers, like a
• 1:04:45
  Speaker 1: former member of the teachers union. Yeah, some something along
• 1:04:49
  Speaker 1: those lines, which we only learn about through dialogue, and
• 1:04:53
  Speaker 1: I'm like, oh, that would have been interesting to explore more.
• 1:04:57
  Speaker 1: Sometimes I'm just like, maybe there's movie would have worked
• 1:05:01
  Speaker 1: better if it was also just a readapted TV series
• 1:05:05
  Speaker 1: and that way we would like get more of us,
• 1:05:07
  Speaker 1: more time to explore. Yeah. Yeah, but remember I remember
• 1:05:13
  Speaker 1: the first time I was I remember thinking I was like,
• 1:05:15
  Speaker 1: this would be a really good, like two part pilot
• 1:05:18
  Speaker 1: for this would work really well. Yeah, as as a pilot, Yeah,
• 1:05:23
  Speaker 1: because I guess it's like our main criticisms are like
• 1:05:26
  Speaker 1: things that we wish we had more time to explore,
• 1:05:29
  Speaker 1: but they just made the cuts they made. Yeah. Another
• 1:05:32
  Speaker 1: one of another example of that is the kind of
• 1:05:37
  Speaker 1: I wouldn't even call it a storyline because it's so fleeting,
• 1:05:40
  Speaker 1: but the detail you learn about Veronica and Harry's son, Marcus,
• 1:05:47
  Speaker 1: who was shot and killed by cops because they racially
• 1:05:51
  Speaker 1: profiled him, and that is then kind of followed up
• 1:05:57
  Speaker 1: on because there's this kind of ongoing in flashbacks between
• 1:06:01
  Speaker 1: Veronica and Harry where she says, he you know, He's like,
• 1:06:06
  Speaker 1: don't make me feel like my only regret is having
• 1:06:08
  Speaker 1: a child with you, and she responds with, you know,
• 1:06:11
  Speaker 1: maybe you should have had a child with someone else,
• 1:06:13
  Speaker 1: because then he would still be alive, which when we
• 1:06:17
  Speaker 1: get the flashback of his murder, we realized, oh, he
• 1:06:21
  Speaker 1: was killed because of the color of his skin, and
• 1:06:23
  Speaker 1: had he been a white man, that wouldn't have happened.
• 1:06:27
  Speaker 1: And so like Veronica is harboring, seems to be harboring
• 1:06:32
  Speaker 1: this guilt revolving around that and then later when Harry
• 1:06:36
  Speaker 1: shows up at the very end, she calls him out.
• 1:06:39
  Speaker 1: She's like, you're such a coward, like you've been having
• 1:06:41
  Speaker 1: this affair and now you have this son, your new
• 1:06:44
  Speaker 1: your new son, your new white happy family. And it's
• 1:06:48
  Speaker 1: this like undercurrent in the movie. But I feel like
• 1:06:51
  Speaker 1: that could have been something that was explored further, and
• 1:06:55
  Speaker 1: I would have liked to have just like kind of
• 1:06:57
  Speaker 1: learned more about that and how that's affecting Aronica. I agree,
• 1:07:01
  Speaker 1: and I sh'll think about I thought it was because
• 1:07:05
  Speaker 1: I feel like that pop Win comes with a lot
• 1:07:08
  Speaker 1: of his history kind of with with feminity and and
• 1:07:10
  Speaker 1: and the kind of the digitalvantages and the way the
• 1:07:12
  Speaker 1: black women, black women aren't offered that kind of feminity,
• 1:07:16
  Speaker 1: and the way that what women are kind of are
• 1:07:17
  Speaker 1: the ideal of femininity, and the way that the world
• 1:07:20
  Speaker 1: that we're often not not teenage women or um or
• 1:07:23
  Speaker 1: not often not offered as a kind of advantage or
• 1:07:26
  Speaker 1: safety um the other one we get because of feminity
• 1:07:30
  Speaker 1: um and and and and then and and then and
• 1:07:32
  Speaker 1: then and then and then having it in your head
• 1:07:34
  Speaker 1: and and and and and then seeing your husband then
• 1:07:37
  Speaker 1: move on and then saying yours move on with the women,
• 1:07:40
  Speaker 1: which is if you are being bad enough, but but
• 1:07:43
  Speaker 1: but then to see him, you know, choose choose that
• 1:07:46
  Speaker 1: over you and and and to have and really kind
• 1:07:48
  Speaker 1: of makes the deal even worse. I feel like that
• 1:07:51
  Speaker 1: was a really interesting pot point. It could have been
• 1:07:53
  Speaker 1: expanded a lot more than it was, because there's because
• 1:07:57
  Speaker 1: there's so much history with that. Absolutely, Yeah, I was
• 1:08:02
  Speaker 1: sort of wondering what the script and the story gained
• 1:08:06
  Speaker 1: by withholding that information for so long, because it seemed like,
• 1:08:10
  Speaker 1: like you're saying, Michael Michel, like there there is so
• 1:08:13
  Speaker 1: much historically and story wise to explore there, But by
• 1:08:17
  Speaker 1: the time you learn what their history is and who
• 1:08:22
  Speaker 1: their son was and what actually happened, there's almost no
• 1:08:26
  Speaker 1: run time left to do anything but kill Liam Neeson,
• 1:08:31
  Speaker 1: which is like I'm I feel great about like great
• 1:08:35
  Speaker 1: kill Liam Neeson all day long. But but yeah, it
• 1:08:38
  Speaker 1: felt like, yeah, that the movie didn't give enough time
• 1:08:42
  Speaker 1: to effectively explore what you were describing. And it feels
• 1:08:47
  Speaker 1: like that character like Veronica is so well set up
• 1:08:50
  Speaker 1: that too, withhold that information for so long, I feel
• 1:08:54
  Speaker 1: like it almost does a disservice to her character. And
• 1:08:57
  Speaker 1: then um, kind of back to your point, mean about
• 1:09:00
  Speaker 1: like kind of the generational differences between Jack Mulligan and
• 1:09:05
  Speaker 1: his father. I think another example of that is that
• 1:09:09
  Speaker 1: programmed that initiative that Jack Mulligan started, the m WOW,
• 1:09:14
  Speaker 1: the Minority Women Owned Work initiative, where it seems, based
• 1:09:21
  Speaker 1: on what you know about him, it's obviously an extremely
• 1:09:24
  Speaker 1: performative thing. That also he is he's basically exploiting the
• 1:09:31
  Speaker 1: people of this district because you find out that they
• 1:09:36
  Speaker 1: loaned money to these black women to like start their
• 1:09:40
  Speaker 1: own businesses. But then these women are now like beholden
• 1:09:44
  Speaker 1: to these loans that they're clearly struggling to pay back.
• 1:09:47
  Speaker 1: Because that's something that we see in the hair salon
• 1:09:51
  Speaker 1: that Bell works in, because her her boss, the owner
• 1:09:55
  Speaker 1: of the salon, is having confrontations in and our humans
• 1:10:00
  Speaker 1: with this man who we understand is coming to collect
• 1:10:04
  Speaker 1: on this debt. And so basically it's like this, you know,
• 1:10:09
  Speaker 1: this Jack Mulligan guy being like, look at me, Look
• 1:10:12
  Speaker 1: what I'm doing. I'm empowering these women of color to
• 1:10:15
  Speaker 1: be business owners, and that's generating revenue, and that revenue
• 1:10:18
  Speaker 1: is going back into the neighborhood. But then when you
• 1:10:20
  Speaker 1: actually learn about the real circumstances of that initiative where
• 1:10:25
  Speaker 1: it's all about you know, this performative gesture, this exploitation
• 1:10:29
  Speaker 1: that he's making money off of two. So yeah, I
• 1:10:34
  Speaker 1: thought that was all an effective examination of that just
• 1:10:39
  Speaker 1: type of very corrupt, performative political whatever dealings that might
• 1:10:47
  Speaker 1: seem like they're helping marginalized communities but is actually exploitative.
• 1:10:53
  Speaker 1: I thought that was effective. Yeah, and I liked that. Again,
• 1:10:58
  Speaker 1: it's just like, yeah, the more we talk about this,
• 1:11:00
  Speaker 1: it's like, oh, there's so much like really timely and
• 1:11:04
  Speaker 1: like well set up premises here that we just don't
• 1:11:07
  Speaker 1: have enough time to explore where it's like not even
• 1:11:10
  Speaker 1: as much a criticism of the movie of like, I
• 1:11:13
  Speaker 1: think the more we talk about it, the more I
• 1:11:14
  Speaker 1: think you're right, Michael Michelburg. It's like this should be
• 1:11:16
  Speaker 1: just like a limited series where we have the real
• 1:11:19
  Speaker 1: estate to like like really examine this. I would have
• 1:11:23
  Speaker 1: loved it, Yeah, it would, And I like, I mean
• 1:11:25
  Speaker 1: it's they I feel like the screenwriters are doing their
• 1:11:29
  Speaker 1: best there where it's like you do see like there's
• 1:11:31
  Speaker 1: that one reporter who I appreciate, see like him just
• 1:11:36
  Speaker 1: I don't know, I've seen stuff like this happen in
• 1:11:38
  Speaker 1: real time where it's like a city councilor is spewing
• 1:11:42
  Speaker 1: campaign point bullshit. Everyone knows he's full of ship, but
• 1:11:45
  Speaker 1: there's only like one reporter who's like, wait, what uh
• 1:11:50
  Speaker 1: just watching the city councilor ignore them and be like, oh,
• 1:11:54
  Speaker 1: this is so annoying when people acknowledge that I'm a liar,
• 1:11:58
  Speaker 1: like that whole thing, it's like it's so uh yeah, yeah,
• 1:12:03
  Speaker 1: I don't know, it's it's good. And then but then
• 1:12:06
  Speaker 1: it's also like we don't get quite enough of it
• 1:12:09
  Speaker 1: because I like that. I mean that was another great
• 1:12:12
  Speaker 1: scene for Cynthia Arrivo's character where she's talking with um,
• 1:12:18
  Speaker 1: I need to remember the name of the character who
• 1:12:20
  Speaker 1: owns the hair salon, and and she's pushing back and
• 1:12:24
  Speaker 1: being like, well that doesn't sound right, Like this isn't
• 1:12:28
  Speaker 1: you know He's he's basically profiting off of pretending to
• 1:12:33
  Speaker 1: help us when he's not helping us, he's helping himself.
• 1:12:36
  Speaker 1: And the owner of the salon kind of replies with like, yeah,
• 1:12:39
  Speaker 1: I know, but what else am I supposed to do?
• 1:12:42
  Speaker 1: Like what other options are available to me? Which is
• 1:12:45
  Speaker 1: a huge conversation that again, it's like it's so wild
• 1:12:52
  Speaker 1: in a positive way that this conversation is being had
• 1:12:54
  Speaker 1: in a heist movie. And I also wish that there
• 1:12:57
  Speaker 1: was more time to explore it, and also, you know,
• 1:13:00
  Speaker 1: just get to know Cynthia Arriva's character better in general totally.
• 1:13:05
  Speaker 1: I mean the catharsis of that salon owner struggling and
• 1:13:11
  Speaker 1: acknowledging like, well, I couldn't have gone a bank, wouldn't
• 1:13:14
  Speaker 1: have given me the loan to start my own business,
• 1:13:16
  Speaker 1: you know, and then to have money paid back to
• 1:13:20
  Speaker 1: her because Belle takes a part of her split from
• 1:13:23
  Speaker 1: the heist and gives it to the salon owner. So
• 1:13:27
  Speaker 1: like just the catharsis of having that debt paid back
• 1:13:31
  Speaker 1: to her, or like getting that money to start a
• 1:13:34
  Speaker 1: business without you know, having these loan sharks basically like
• 1:13:38
  Speaker 1: breathing down her neck, you know, putting her in a
• 1:13:41
  Speaker 1: position of being more financially secure, and that money coming
• 1:13:46
  Speaker 1: from the very man who exploited her to begin with,
• 1:13:51
  Speaker 1: is very cathartic. Yeah, Um, does anyone have any other
• 1:13:58
  Speaker 1: thoughts about the phil Um? What were you always thoughts
• 1:14:02
  Speaker 1: kind of about his kind of relations relationship kind of
• 1:14:07
  Speaker 1: just that's working and all of that. Oh, that's a
• 1:14:12
  Speaker 1: that's an excellent question. I would be curious. I almost
• 1:14:15
  Speaker 1: want I wasn't able to find I was because so
• 1:14:19
  Speaker 1: this I don't think came up a lot in the summary,
• 1:14:21
  Speaker 1: but um for listener reference if you have not seen
• 1:14:23
  Speaker 1: the movie yet, Alice is pressured by her mother to
• 1:14:29
  Speaker 1: become a sugar baby in order to financially sustain herself
• 1:14:35
  Speaker 1: and also presumably her mother to an extent after her
• 1:14:39
  Speaker 1: husband dies in the heist, and so for much of
• 1:14:44
  Speaker 1: the movie we see Alice is in a transactional sugar
• 1:14:48
  Speaker 1: baby relationship with this business guy. So I was I
• 1:14:55
  Speaker 1: was hoping to be able. I was looking for a
• 1:14:58
  Speaker 1: sex worker perspective on this storyline, and I wasn't able
• 1:15:02
  Speaker 1: to find one. So if I mean, if we do
• 1:15:06
  Speaker 1: have any listeners who have insights into that, we would
• 1:15:09
  Speaker 1: love we were totally open to hearing it, and I wasn't.
• 1:15:13
  Speaker 1: I don't know. I mean, my instinct there was that
• 1:15:15
  Speaker 1: it was well intentioned but possibly a little undercooked. I
• 1:15:19
  Speaker 1: felt like there there was kind of an element in
• 1:15:22
  Speaker 1: at least with that guy, Dave David vague rich guy,
• 1:15:27
  Speaker 1: where he was pretty emotionally volatile towards Alice, where there
• 1:15:32
  Speaker 1: were moments where he was very affectionate towards her and
• 1:15:36
  Speaker 1: she seemed to think that there might be a real
• 1:15:38
  Speaker 1: relationship developing, and then he would turn on her and
• 1:15:42
  Speaker 1: be like, this is a transaction for me and grows
• 1:15:45
  Speaker 1: more and more volatile as the story goes on, and
• 1:15:48
  Speaker 1: it feels like, I don't know, I would be curious
• 1:15:50
  Speaker 1: to know how much when Steve McQueen and Gillian flam
• 1:15:54
  Speaker 1: were collaborating on this, how much they spoke to sex
• 1:15:58
  Speaker 1: workers versus used the idea of sugar baby to advance
• 1:16:03
  Speaker 1: the character and get her to where they wanted her
• 1:16:05
  Speaker 1: to be. Because I I sort of felt like, and
• 1:16:07
  Speaker 1: again it's like I don't have experience in this realm,
• 1:16:11
  Speaker 1: but it almost it did feel to me a little
• 1:16:13
  Speaker 1: bit like they were commenting more on the idea of
• 1:16:17
  Speaker 1: a sugar baby as a means to an end, versus
• 1:16:19
  Speaker 1: any actual insight into sex work. It felt it felt
• 1:16:23
  Speaker 1: kind of dragmental to me. Um kind of both both
• 1:16:27
  Speaker 1: both to the filmmakers and kind of and also and
• 1:16:30
  Speaker 1: also all the kid goes around her, It just kind
• 1:16:32
  Speaker 1: of felt like everyone was kind of um. It just
• 1:16:35
  Speaker 1: kept being a plot point of basically her for either
• 1:16:39
  Speaker 1: not having a real job or not really being intelligent
• 1:16:42
  Speaker 1: because as a reflector of being a sugar baby. And
• 1:16:45
  Speaker 1: I was like, this bear is a little off base here. Yeah,
• 1:16:49
  Speaker 1: I have two thoughts about this. Number one is ready um.
• 1:16:57
  Speaker 1: Number one is I was trying to figure out if
• 1:17:02
  Speaker 1: there was a distinction between the movie whether or not
• 1:17:06
  Speaker 1: it was passing judgment about this versus other characters in
• 1:17:11
  Speaker 1: the narrative passing judgment, because I mean, Veronica certainly is
• 1:17:15
  Speaker 1: passing judgment as a character, definitely. Yeah, And I think
• 1:17:19
  Speaker 1: maybe even correct me if I'm wrong, But I I
• 1:17:22
  Speaker 1: feel like Michelle Rodriguez's character might also make some comment.
• 1:17:26
  Speaker 1: Maybe it's just like about something she's wearing. I think
• 1:17:29
  Speaker 1: that there's comments. It's not just I mean, but with like, yeah,
• 1:17:32
  Speaker 1: with Veronica, I mean it's like a physical altercation. But yeah,
• 1:17:34
  Speaker 1: I think that everyone is a little bit judge e
• 1:17:37
  Speaker 1: about Alice's job. Right, So that's happening without question as
• 1:17:44
  Speaker 1: far as the movie and the crafters of this story
• 1:17:48
  Speaker 1: passing judgment, I feel like that was happening to a
• 1:17:52
  Speaker 1: definitely lesser extent than some of the other characters passing judgment.
• 1:17:57
  Speaker 1: But I feel like it would have been more effective
• 1:17:59
  Speaker 1: if the movie is actually coming at it completely objectively.
• 1:18:03
  Speaker 1: I think it would have been helpful to have a
• 1:18:05
  Speaker 1: different character, maybe Michelle Rodriguez's character, to say, like, do
• 1:18:12
  Speaker 1: whatever you want, it's your life, your choice. Yeah, good point. Yeah, Yeah,
• 1:18:18
  Speaker 1: I don't know. And it also sort of sets up
• 1:18:21
  Speaker 1: Elizabeth Debicky as an actor to be the most heavily
• 1:18:25
  Speaker 1: sexualized character in the movie, where I mean, she is
• 1:18:31
  Speaker 1: the only white woman of the widows, right, and and
• 1:18:35
  Speaker 1: she's also the only woman that has a like long
• 1:18:41
  Speaker 1: lingering sex scene and these scenes of her and all
• 1:18:44
  Speaker 1: these gowns, and it just I don't know. I it
• 1:18:49
  Speaker 1: wasn't my biggest issue with the movie, but it also
• 1:18:51
  Speaker 1: just there were some lingering like why was this? And
• 1:18:56
  Speaker 1: I am curious of like how much of that storyline
• 1:19:00
  Speaker 1: was carried on from the mini series or if this
• 1:19:02
  Speaker 1: was completely an invention of these two writers. I don't
• 1:19:06
  Speaker 1: really know. Yeah, and we'll never know because we simply
• 1:19:10
  Speaker 1: won't and maybe even can't. Where do you find British
• 1:19:13
  Speaker 1: from the eighties? I tried, I really did try, and
• 1:19:17
  Speaker 1: I couldn't find it. Yeah, but yeah, I'm a little
• 1:19:21
  Speaker 1: wary of that. But my second thought about this is
• 1:19:27
  Speaker 1: that it is a reminder to me that all of
• 1:19:30
  Speaker 1: the men in the story are framed as being obstacles
• 1:19:36
  Speaker 1: and or antagonistic forces for the widows, which I think
• 1:19:42
  Speaker 1: is an interesting flip considering that in your average heist movie,
• 1:19:47
  Speaker 1: which is again a bunch of men doing heists for reasons, um,
• 1:19:55
  Speaker 1: women are often framed as obstacles. Like just again, to
• 1:20:00
  Speaker 1: refer back to Oceans eleven, Julia Roberts, Brad Pitts all
• 1:20:04
  Speaker 1: like she's a distraction, Danny Ocean stopped being distracted, blah
• 1:20:09
  Speaker 1: blah blah. I still can't get over the fact that
• 1:20:11
  Speaker 1: his name is Danny Ocean. Act movie so many times,
• 1:20:14
  Speaker 1: and I'm like, what the fuck his name is Danny Ocean.
• 1:20:18
  Speaker 1: I can't think of it's ludicrous, But um, yeah, so
• 1:20:25
  Speaker 1: I think it was. I mean, I don't hate the
• 1:20:27
  Speaker 1: choice that I mean. And again I'm not saying like
• 1:20:31
  Speaker 1: all men hashtag, not all men are bad and obstacles,
• 1:20:37
  Speaker 1: but um, between, like this David guy who Alice gets
• 1:20:41
  Speaker 1: involved with, he, like you said, Jamie gets increasingly like
• 1:20:44
  Speaker 1: more and more volatile. Her deceased husband was physically abusive.
• 1:20:50
  Speaker 1: Linda's husband was gambling away all of her money that
• 1:20:55
  Speaker 1: she earned from running this gown store boutique, yah, causing
• 1:21:01
  Speaker 1: her to lose her business. Obviously, we talked about how
• 1:21:05
  Speaker 1: Veronica's husband, Harry was, you know, cheating on her. He's lying,
• 1:21:09
  Speaker 1: he's faking his death, he tries to kill her, etcetera.
• 1:21:13
  Speaker 1: Name a thing he didn't do wrong. He really did
• 1:21:16
  Speaker 1: every single thing. He fucked up real bad um. The
• 1:21:20
  Speaker 1: men in the Manning family, the men and the Mulligan family,
• 1:21:25
  Speaker 1: they are all posed as being antagonistic forces to the women.
• 1:21:31
  Speaker 1: I would say the only exception is Bash the driver,
• 1:21:35
  Speaker 1: like he's he seems okay, good friend as far as
• 1:21:39
  Speaker 1: I can tell, and then he isn't okay because you know,
• 1:21:45
  Speaker 1: he's just yeah that that's a really good point that
• 1:21:49
  Speaker 1: I don't know, I have such complicated feelings about it's
• 1:21:52
  Speaker 1: not even specific to this movie, but movies that it's
• 1:21:56
  Speaker 1: so bizarre because it's just like whatever, the past five
• 1:21:58
  Speaker 1: to seven years feel like it's been forever. It feels
• 1:22:02
  Speaker 1: like such a long time. And so this movie is
• 1:22:05
  Speaker 1: less than three years old, but there are already elements
• 1:22:07
  Speaker 1: of it that not even in a way that I'm
• 1:22:10
  Speaker 1: being super critical of but that feel a little bit dated,
• 1:22:13
  Speaker 1: of like the feeling and the sort of like movie
• 1:22:19
  Speaker 1: energy that was coming to screens in the year after
• 1:22:22
  Speaker 1: the Me Too movements started going, versus being three years
• 1:22:26
  Speaker 1: out and knowing kind of a little more about how
• 1:22:29
  Speaker 1: that actually bore out, and like the successes and failures
• 1:22:33
  Speaker 1: that that movement has had. It like, watching this movie
• 1:22:37
  Speaker 1: now is like and watching the trailer, especially Michael Mitchell.
• 1:22:40
  Speaker 1: You mentioned the trailer, and I remember being so fucking
• 1:22:43
  Speaker 1: hyped on the trailer. I love. It's like the most
• 1:22:47
  Speaker 1: me too trailer ever where it's like, we're going to
• 1:22:50
  Speaker 1: do it now, and like it's very cathartic and exciting
• 1:22:53
  Speaker 1: and and then but but then there's also like I
• 1:22:57
  Speaker 1: can't quite describe what the feeling is, but there's it
• 1:23:00
  Speaker 1: makes me like a little bit sad and discouraged to
• 1:23:04
  Speaker 1: watch that trailers out because it felt like there was
• 1:23:07
  Speaker 1: all this positive energy, and like with so many movements,
• 1:23:12
  Speaker 1: you're like, oh, yeah, we didn't solve that in a year.
• 1:23:17
  Speaker 1: What were we thinking? Like it was? I don't it's
• 1:23:21
  Speaker 1: hard to just I don't. I don't really know exactly
• 1:23:23
  Speaker 1: what I'm getting at here, but I guess just the
• 1:23:25
  Speaker 1: idea of like, there have been so many reversals of
• 1:23:31
  Speaker 1: mail driven plots, which this movie is in many ways,
• 1:23:35
  Speaker 1: And I think that the ways that it does it
• 1:23:37
  Speaker 1: and the subject matter it chooses to tackle is really smart.
• 1:23:41
  Speaker 1: It's well written, it's certainly well acted, like it's really cool.
• 1:23:46
  Speaker 1: And then there's also I don't know, I mean, there's
• 1:23:49
  Speaker 1: certainly room for both of these sorts of movies, But
• 1:23:52
  Speaker 1: then there's sometimes where it's like, is the only option
• 1:23:55
  Speaker 1: to just flip it? Because I don't know in this
• 1:24:00
  Speaker 1: ice piece that Again, I want to shout out the
• 1:24:02
  Speaker 1: writer Amior Mercer. She was pointing out, like, with kind
• 1:24:06
  Speaker 1: of the exception of set it off, most women driven
• 1:24:10
  Speaker 1: heist movies are reversals of mail plots, and she pointed out,
• 1:24:16
  Speaker 1: and I've only seen Oceans eight once and I didn't
• 1:24:19
  Speaker 1: really like it very much, but how the women in
• 1:24:23
  Speaker 1: Oceans eight are very defined in relation to characters who
• 1:24:28
  Speaker 1: existed in Danny Ocean's life and like age my little
• 1:24:34
  Speaker 1: sister and this is bu and it's all they exist
• 1:24:39
  Speaker 1: in relation to men. And that is true of the way.
• 1:24:43
  Speaker 1: I mean, that's like widows, like the title implies proximity
• 1:24:47
  Speaker 1: to men, which is a very true you know that
• 1:24:50
  Speaker 1: it's like a reality that exists. And then I also
• 1:24:54
  Speaker 1: I'm just I don't know, I want us to get
• 1:24:58
  Speaker 1: to a point where it doesn't need to be a
• 1:25:00
  Speaker 1: flip of a movie we've seen before, like like it
• 1:25:02
  Speaker 1: should just be a story on its own. It also
• 1:25:05
  Speaker 1: kind of makes you think about that. There was this
• 1:25:08
  Speaker 1: video I've watched the other day. I don't know, I
• 1:25:10
  Speaker 1: think it might have been the take, but they're talking
• 1:25:11
  Speaker 1: about how how often things in the female gage or
• 1:25:14
  Speaker 1: just kind of flipping I just kind of flipping the
• 1:25:17
  Speaker 1: mail gage but updractifying men. And so how do we
• 1:25:21
  Speaker 1: get past just the flipping had what is film beyond that?
• 1:25:25
  Speaker 1: And how do we get to a space of just
• 1:25:29
  Speaker 1: a completely new space of just creating content that isn't
• 1:25:33
  Speaker 1: that's beyond the flap of flipping? And how do we
• 1:25:35
  Speaker 1: create it? And and what is that content? Yeah? Yeah,
• 1:25:41
  Speaker 1: that's so well put. Yeah, where it's just like, at
• 1:25:44
  Speaker 1: what point with like flipping that gaze is like it was,
• 1:25:48
  Speaker 1: I don't know, I like almost go back to my
• 1:25:49
  Speaker 1: twenty eight teen SEWT were like all I wanted to
• 1:25:52
  Speaker 1: see was like in movies women doing two oppressors? What
• 1:25:57
  Speaker 1: oppressors had done to them, and like that was really
• 1:26:00
  Speaker 1: cathartic and exciting and like I felt like a release
• 1:26:05
  Speaker 1: that was like needed. But at some point it's like,
• 1:26:09
  Speaker 1: but that can't be the end game. You can't just
• 1:26:13
  Speaker 1: flip patriarchy. That's ridiculous. Like there's like I don't know,
• 1:26:20
  Speaker 1: I just like I don't know. I've well, I've been
• 1:26:23
  Speaker 1: doing my feelings this summer. Well that we talked about
• 1:26:28
  Speaker 1: this a lot, where I mean, progress is a process, right,
• 1:26:34
  Speaker 1: and that where's the merch where's the T shirt? But
• 1:26:38
  Speaker 1: it means that there are stepping stones, and we've covered
• 1:26:41
  Speaker 1: a lot of movies on the show that we have
• 1:26:43
  Speaker 1: commented that this feels like a stepping stone movie. This
• 1:26:47
  Speaker 1: is like a step in the right direction. It's not perfect,
• 1:26:50
  Speaker 1: it's not nearly as like amazingly intersectionally feminist as we
• 1:26:55
  Speaker 1: are hoping it is, but it was very progressive for
• 1:27:01
  Speaker 1: the time that movie came out, or you know, whatever
• 1:27:04
  Speaker 1: the case. So, yeah, I think it's I don't think
• 1:27:08
  Speaker 1: it's the end game. Is just like a gender flip,
• 1:27:12
  Speaker 1: but it is like one of the steps in the
• 1:27:17
  Speaker 1: process or like just like process. Yeah, where it's like
• 1:27:21
  Speaker 1: Widows does feel very much like how eighteen felt in
• 1:27:27
  Speaker 1: a lot of ways words, which is wild to say
• 1:27:30
  Speaker 1: because it's so recent, but it's like it is capturing
• 1:27:33
  Speaker 1: so many ideas and catharsis and and just like beginning
• 1:27:38
  Speaker 1: to discuss serious societal issues in a genre where you
• 1:27:42
  Speaker 1: wouldn't normally even think about seeing that. Yeah, I don't know.
• 1:27:48
  Speaker 1: I think I think that year specifically. I think I
• 1:27:51
  Speaker 1: think we're like halfway through tough presidency and everyone kind
• 1:27:55
  Speaker 1: of wanted and it was it was like it was
• 1:27:58
  Speaker 1: like it was the year of of of representation mattering,
• 1:28:01
  Speaker 1: and everyone was so want to grab Ronnie to grab
• 1:28:04
  Speaker 1: and feel kind of aspirational and it definitely feels staved
• 1:28:08
  Speaker 1: in that. Yeah. Yeah, it's it's so like even just yeah,
• 1:28:13
  Speaker 1: like context historically was like, oh this this movie makes
• 1:28:18
  Speaker 1: exact sense for the moment that it came out in
• 1:28:22
  Speaker 1: and it's it is it's like so well done. I mean,
• 1:28:26
  Speaker 1: and Steve McQueen and Gillian Flynn, like that's such a
• 1:28:29
  Speaker 1: cool collaboration to have even happened, Like it's awesome. I
• 1:28:34
  Speaker 1: think that Gillian Flynn, if I'm not mistaken, I believe
• 1:28:37
  Speaker 1: that she is from Chicago, which is I think why
• 1:28:41
  Speaker 1: the setting was shifted there. Um, I'm pretty yes, Okay,
• 1:28:46
  Speaker 1: so yeah, she is. She has lived in Chicago for
• 1:28:48
  Speaker 1: many years, so I think that that was why between
• 1:28:51
  Speaker 1: her and Steve McQueen that it was like a British
• 1:28:54
  Speaker 1: mini series that Steve McQueen loved, and then they said
• 1:28:56
  Speaker 1: it where Gillian Flynn lived, and like it just it's cool.
• 1:29:00
  Speaker 1: It's a really cool collaboration, really totally. But what other
• 1:29:04
  Speaker 1: questions was also kind of because I don't think we
• 1:29:07
  Speaker 1: talked about it. What was um was I guess Day's
• 1:29:11
  Speaker 1: his too, his too kind of the the other kill
• 1:29:15
  Speaker 1: the other killing scenes, the one with Bash kind of
• 1:29:17
  Speaker 1: as wanting football, and then also and and and then
• 1:29:20
  Speaker 1: also the freestyle raps he and I was wondering, kind of,
• 1:29:23
  Speaker 1: what y'all what about those? I mean, just from a
• 1:29:29
  Speaker 1: cinematic point of view, I'm always so shocked that it
• 1:29:33
  Speaker 1: happens because we don't know who those characters are when
• 1:29:39
  Speaker 1: they're first introduced, because we hadn't seen them before. We
• 1:29:42
  Speaker 1: don't really understand the context that they like exist in
• 1:29:46
  Speaker 1: the story or what their role is. And it's not
• 1:29:50
  Speaker 1: until part way into the conversation that jam is having
• 1:29:56
  Speaker 1: I think with other characters. Is it that they are
• 1:30:00
  Speaker 1: the ones who kind of let the robbers get away
• 1:30:04
  Speaker 1: with the money, or they were supposed to be like
• 1:30:06
  Speaker 1: keeping an eye on the money and then they sucked
• 1:30:09
  Speaker 1: up and that's why they were able to steal it.
• 1:30:11
  Speaker 1: I think it was something along those lines, if I'm
• 1:30:13
  Speaker 1: not mistaken. Um, yeah, that was my understanding of it.
• 1:30:17
  Speaker 1: So they had like messed up and then they get
• 1:30:21
  Speaker 1: punished for it by being shot and really brutal, especially
• 1:30:26
  Speaker 1: the first shooting, right, Yeah, I don't know. Yeah, I
• 1:30:31
  Speaker 1: was curious when everyone thought about that. I feel like
• 1:30:35
  Speaker 1: those kinds of scenes are like you're saying that, they're
• 1:30:38
  Speaker 1: always shocking to me because it's just like it's not
• 1:30:41
  Speaker 1: a genre that I've ever been extremely invested in, and
• 1:30:45
  Speaker 1: it does like these godfathery scenes where it's just like
• 1:30:50
  Speaker 1: very dramatic executions has never really been for me, but
• 1:30:55
  Speaker 1: I do. I yeah, I feel like the fact that
• 1:30:58
  Speaker 1: these executions are done by a character who the movie
• 1:31:03
  Speaker 1: isn't really letting us get to know makes watching it
• 1:31:08
  Speaker 1: feel worse or like more exploitative, where it does sort
• 1:31:11
  Speaker 1: of just feel like a torture porn situation because I
• 1:31:16
  Speaker 1: feel like Daniel Clia, like you were saying earlier, Michael Michelle,
• 1:31:19
  Speaker 1: like Daniel Clia's performance is doing the heavy lifting there
• 1:31:23
  Speaker 1: where like you can tell like he's trying my And
• 1:31:27
  Speaker 1: then I watched an interview with him to sort of
• 1:31:30
  Speaker 1: make sure that this was what he would he like
• 1:31:32
  Speaker 1: he was trying to performance always come from a place
• 1:31:35
  Speaker 1: of like this is how he shows love and loyalty
• 1:31:39
  Speaker 1: to his brother is by doing this, which is like, wow,
• 1:31:46
  Speaker 1: Daniel Clia is so smart like that totally like hearing
• 1:31:50
  Speaker 1: that was like that totally comes through, But that isn't
• 1:31:53
  Speaker 1: really in the writing like he does that, he brings that,
• 1:31:57
  Speaker 1: but and it does feel it feels kind of grow
• 1:32:00
  Speaker 1: especially concerning the conversation we had earlier, where the way
• 1:32:04
  Speaker 1: that these scenes are shot is very telling of it.
• 1:32:07
  Speaker 1: Really it seems to really the camera work kind of
• 1:32:11
  Speaker 1: dwells more on the brutal murder of a disabled man.
• 1:32:17
  Speaker 1: We see the two black men in this first scene
• 1:32:21
  Speaker 1: to be executed very much on screen, like there's nothing
• 1:32:24
  Speaker 1: held back in that. And then with white characters that
• 1:32:29
  Speaker 1: we know, all of a sudden, the cameras a little shyer,
• 1:32:34
  Speaker 1: and and and the fact that we don't really get
• 1:32:37
  Speaker 1: the information we need with gamalogy attempt seems to make
• 1:32:41
  Speaker 1: it harder. I don't know, what did you think, Michael Mitchelle,
• 1:32:45
  Speaker 1: even I was telling me, I was even thinking a
• 1:32:48
  Speaker 1: lot about what I think. I also love. I do think.
• 1:32:51
  Speaker 1: I think the sound of sound is also really interesting,
• 1:32:54
  Speaker 1: and a lot of even certain scenes, um, the certain
• 1:32:58
  Speaker 1: depths seem moore see loud, rent and kind of more
• 1:33:02
  Speaker 1: goals when it comes to the other stable characters, for
• 1:33:04
  Speaker 1: the black characters, and and then and and and then
• 1:33:07
  Speaker 1: and then and then music kind of swelling kind of
• 1:33:09
  Speaker 1: you know, in a softer way when it came to
• 1:33:11
  Speaker 1: like cares of something. I also noticed, um so and
• 1:33:14
  Speaker 1: so I would also and so I feel like both
• 1:33:17
  Speaker 1: the camera work and then the town designed together kind
• 1:33:20
  Speaker 1: of um there, they're as already there West. But that
• 1:33:24
  Speaker 1: was probably I do think that was a high point
• 1:33:27
  Speaker 1: for me. Didn't know I think that that this undersigned
• 1:33:30
  Speaker 1: what was really was the highpoint by But I do
• 1:33:33
  Speaker 1: think there were certain spots where I was like, this
• 1:33:34
  Speaker 1: could have been handled a little better. Yeah, yeah, because
• 1:33:37
  Speaker 1: it's like, I mean, best case scenario, those scenes could
• 1:33:41
  Speaker 1: have I mean just been like holy sh it mob scenes,
• 1:33:46
  Speaker 1: which I think is like what they were trying to be,
• 1:33:48
  Speaker 1: but they were like, yeah, the details in the cinematography
• 1:33:51
  Speaker 1: and like the character development or like lack thereof, I
• 1:33:55
  Speaker 1: guess made it a little tougher. I don't know. I
• 1:33:59
  Speaker 1: also don't unders and mob movies, so I could be
• 1:34:04
  Speaker 1: so very wrong either way. It's uh, that scene is
• 1:34:08
  Speaker 1: always extremely jarring for me. But um, yeah, because that's
• 1:34:13
  Speaker 1: like the first because you get the you get the
• 1:34:15
  Speaker 1: big explosion pretty early on with the van explodes, but
• 1:34:19
  Speaker 1: that's the first moment of like really brutal, like happening
• 1:34:24
  Speaker 1: right in your face violence, graphic violence kind of things.
• 1:34:29
  Speaker 1: So yeah, it's it's always like, oh god, Daniel Khaluja,
• 1:34:34
  Speaker 1: oh my stars, and so my stars, why are you
• 1:34:40
  Speaker 1: so mean? But does anyone have any other thoughts about
• 1:34:46
  Speaker 1: the movie? I also, Sally, I really want to knowledge
• 1:34:49
  Speaker 1: the true star of this film, this Olivia. I just
• 1:34:52
  Speaker 1: feel like a true star. She you know, you know,
• 1:34:55
  Speaker 1: she helped find you know, help find Harry. Really Veronica's
• 1:35:00
  Speaker 1: motivation just a star, love her, adorable an icon. Absolutely.
• 1:35:08
  Speaker 1: Um does the movie pass the Bechdel test? Yes, yes, yes, yes,
• 1:35:16
  Speaker 1: here's my favorite pass. Well, well it's not. We'll we'll
• 1:35:20
  Speaker 1: discuss how it's not quite a pass. But Alice said,
• 1:35:24
  Speaker 1: why are you being such a bitch. You're being a sword. Veronica,
• 1:35:30
  Speaker 1: don't say that word to me, Alice, it's appropriate, you're
• 1:35:33
  Speaker 1: being a sword. And then Veronica is like, you're just
• 1:35:37
  Speaker 1: a stupid girl with nothing in your head. And then
• 1:35:39
  Speaker 1: they slap each other and they sure do. Yeah, we
• 1:35:43
  Speaker 1: love Melo drama. But I would argue that that conversation
• 1:35:48
  Speaker 1: does not pass because this is Veronica slut shaming Alice
• 1:35:54
  Speaker 1: for having sex with a guy only one month after
• 1:35:57
  Speaker 1: her husband died, so the context is still all about
• 1:36:00
  Speaker 1: her husband. This new guy. Yes, but it is an
• 1:36:04
  Speaker 1: interaction between women. There's no denying that. But no, it does.
• 1:36:11
  Speaker 1: It does pass a lot. The widows are planning the
• 1:36:15
  Speaker 1: heist together, talking a lot of like logistics stuff, things
• 1:36:19
  Speaker 1: that don't have anything to do with men. Shall we
• 1:36:22
  Speaker 1: get to our ratings on the nipple scale? Let's do it.
• 1:36:27
  Speaker 1: Our nipple scale is zero to five nipples, based on
• 1:36:31
  Speaker 1: how the movie fares from an intersectional feminist lens. I
• 1:36:36
  Speaker 1: would give this I think four nipples. It's gonna get
• 1:36:41
  Speaker 1: some points docked simply because of a lot of what
• 1:36:45
  Speaker 1: we talked about in terms of things that the movie
• 1:36:48
  Speaker 1: starts to examine or starts to explore that it doesn't
• 1:36:53
  Speaker 1: there's not quite enough time to fully explore it, and
• 1:36:56
  Speaker 1: then I feel like we're kind of like robbed of opportunity,
• 1:37:00
  Speaker 1: used for more interesting commentary or yeah, just a closer
• 1:37:05
  Speaker 1: examination of what I think this movie is trying to do. Again,
• 1:37:10
  Speaker 1: it probably should have just been readapted, revitalized as another series.
• 1:37:16
  Speaker 1: It's not that it doesn't work as a movie, but
• 1:37:18
  Speaker 1: I think it doesn't work quite as well, just because
• 1:37:21
  Speaker 1: there's it feels like there's so much crammed into this
• 1:37:26
  Speaker 1: already pretty long movie. It's over two hours long. But um, yeah,
• 1:37:30
  Speaker 1: there's just there's different bits of like characterization and commentary
• 1:37:34
  Speaker 1: that I feel could have been handled more effectively had
• 1:37:39
  Speaker 1: we been given more time with it, especially the relationships
• 1:37:45
  Speaker 1: between the widows and how those grow and develop over
• 1:37:50
  Speaker 1: the course of the story, especially with a character like
• 1:37:54
  Speaker 1: Bell who gets introduced so late into the game and
• 1:37:57
  Speaker 1: we don't really learn anything about her. So yeah, that's uh,
• 1:38:02
  Speaker 1: that's my main grape with the movie. So four nipples,
• 1:38:09
  Speaker 1: and I'll give one to each of the widows. Wow,
• 1:38:16
  Speaker 1: I'll meet you there. I'll meet you there like three
• 1:38:18
  Speaker 1: point seven five or four. This movie is really fun
• 1:38:22
  Speaker 1: to watch, and it also is it's a it's a
• 1:38:24
  Speaker 1: heavy romp, it's a tone poem, and yet it's a
• 1:38:28
  Speaker 1: it's interesting. I would call it hetty and heavy. Yes,
• 1:38:32
  Speaker 1: every h e a blank y uh, substitute any consonant.
• 1:38:39
  Speaker 1: It's that. But yeah, I I really like this update
• 1:38:46
  Speaker 1: on the format. I love a Steve McQueen Gillian Flynn
• 1:38:51
  Speaker 1: collaboration that was really cool. I that the performances in
• 1:38:56
  Speaker 1: this movie are like incorrect, like the cast, Like just
• 1:39:00
  Speaker 1: watched a couple of round tables with the cast and
• 1:39:02
  Speaker 1: you're like, hold on, this cast is ridiculous. Like it's
• 1:39:06
  Speaker 1: so I like, I feel like we didn't get to
• 1:39:09
  Speaker 1: talk about Brian Tyree Henry very much, and I just
• 1:39:11
  Speaker 1: like he's incredible. He's so good. I know he's not
• 1:39:16
  Speaker 1: one of the widows and all the widows are incredible,
• 1:39:18
  Speaker 1: but I was like, Brian Tyree Henry doesn't need an
• 1:39:21
  Speaker 1: oscar like yesterday anyway, he had an incredible year right
• 1:39:24
  Speaker 1: yere He's yeah, yeah, he's like he had like a
• 1:39:28
  Speaker 1: wild eighteen. He was in like everything that year because
• 1:39:31
  Speaker 1: he was also he's he's in Um was into this
• 1:39:35
  Speaker 1: Better Verse that year because he voices Miles, his dad
• 1:39:38
  Speaker 1: in that movie. Yes, yes, he was Real Street that
• 1:39:42
  Speaker 1: year as well. Yeah, he's Oh my god, I really
• 1:39:46
  Speaker 1: like him. What else was he in that year? He
• 1:39:49
  Speaker 1: was in? Oh, I have no idea what that movie
• 1:39:51
  Speaker 1: he is. He was in a movie called Hotel Artemis.
• 1:39:54
  Speaker 1: Oh I remember that coming out? Yeah, well he was
• 1:39:57
  Speaker 1: in it. Whatever. Anyway, it's good for so. Yes, I like,
• 1:40:02
  Speaker 1: I totally agree with what you were just saying, Caitlin,
• 1:40:06
  Speaker 1: and what you were saying earlier, Michael Michelle. Where this
• 1:40:08
  Speaker 1: movie you could argue, maybe like bites off a little
• 1:40:11
  Speaker 1: more than it can chew with the sheer number of
• 1:40:13
  Speaker 1: issues it's trying to address where I don't know. I mean, ultimately,
• 1:40:17
  Speaker 1: I'm glad that it tries it. We don't quite have
• 1:40:21
  Speaker 1: the run time to meet every single arc, but I
• 1:40:25
  Speaker 1: mean the fact that it's a heist movie that addresses
• 1:40:29
  Speaker 1: racial injustice and class injustice and misogyny. It tackles a
• 1:40:35
  Speaker 1: hell of a lot in two hours, and it all
• 1:40:38
  Speaker 1: makes sense in the story and it's just it it
• 1:40:42
  Speaker 1: comes together. It's it's really good. Um, most of the
• 1:40:46
  Speaker 1: issues I have with this movie is just stories that
• 1:40:48
  Speaker 1: it doesn't quite have the time to follow through on.
• 1:40:51
  Speaker 1: It's not really what they do that I have an
• 1:40:53
  Speaker 1: issue with. That's what they didn't have time to do.
• 1:40:55
  Speaker 1: I wish. I mean, we should have known more about
• 1:40:57
  Speaker 1: the Mannings, We should have known more about Michelle read
• 1:41:00
  Speaker 1: Egas and Cynthia Rivo, et cetera. Yeah, so yeah, I'll
• 1:41:04
  Speaker 1: let's go for it. And I will also give a
• 1:41:07
  Speaker 1: nipple a piece to the widows. Nice Michael, Michelle, what
• 1:41:12
  Speaker 1: about you? I am also going to give it for um,
• 1:41:16
  Speaker 1: you know, kind of like you all said everything, everything
• 1:41:20
  Speaker 1: that they attempted. I really I really appreciate and enjoyed it,
• 1:41:24
  Speaker 1: and pretty I loved it as a work. It's I'm
• 1:41:27
  Speaker 1: pretty be honest. I think it was my favorite of
• 1:41:29
  Speaker 1: that year and I think also my personal favorite hist movie. Um.
• 1:41:34
  Speaker 1: I just I think it's it's just it's it's really grounded.
• 1:41:37
  Speaker 1: I think I think all the women feel like real
• 1:41:40
  Speaker 1: women and they don't feel like our types of women
• 1:41:42
  Speaker 1: for the sake of like woman hasn't been a movie,
• 1:41:44
  Speaker 1: which is nice. Um totally, and I love I love
• 1:41:49
  Speaker 1: the all four of them are soul specific in each
• 1:41:52
  Speaker 1: of their bast wood and and and that they're all
• 1:41:54
  Speaker 1: dealing with with with with very specific marital problems. Um,
• 1:41:58
  Speaker 1: you know, my graphs are the same that you all have.
• 1:42:02
  Speaker 1: You know that I wish that the great thing that
• 1:42:05
  Speaker 1: they that they had given us kind of head head
• 1:42:07
  Speaker 1: any more time to be able to kind of kind
• 1:42:09
  Speaker 1: of blosom kind of um with the run time. But
• 1:42:12
  Speaker 1: I'm so glad that it's a second tone, you know,
• 1:42:14
  Speaker 1: and then and then and then it exists, and um,
• 1:42:18
  Speaker 1: and I'm also really pissed that it didn't get more
• 1:42:21
  Speaker 1: more than Awards season. Um, yes, absolutely, because I got
• 1:42:25
  Speaker 1: completely snubbed by the Golden Globes and the Academy, right,
• 1:42:29
  Speaker 1: is that remembering it? Right? Yeah? Completely. I was just
• 1:42:32
  Speaker 1: I was like, so, we're just not going to acknowledge
• 1:42:34
  Speaker 1: that this magic. It's fine. I'm not better at five
• 1:42:39
  Speaker 1: okay over it kind of But yeah, So I love
• 1:42:45
  Speaker 1: this movie. I wish it could have given us more,
• 1:42:48
  Speaker 1: but um, I kind of explored more and kind of
• 1:42:50
  Speaker 1: given us more death. But I'm glad to existed. So
• 1:42:53
  Speaker 1: I'll give it four stars. Nice, amazing, Well, thank you
• 1:42:57
  Speaker 1: so much for joining us. Yeah, thank you. This was
• 1:43:00
  Speaker 1: such a blast. Thank you so much for having me.
• 1:43:02
  Speaker 1: I love you. I really appreciate your working. It was
• 1:43:06
  Speaker 1: really fun to talk to you all. Likewise, thanks for
• 1:43:09
  Speaker 1: bringing us this movie. This was so fun. Where can
• 1:43:13
  Speaker 1: we find more of your work? Where can we follow you?
• 1:43:16
  Speaker 1: Plug away? Yeah, so I am. You can follow me
• 1:43:19
  Speaker 1: on Twitter and Instagram, on on on Twitter, on films
• 1:43:22
  Speaker 1: and films, fe m M E s N Films, and
• 1:43:27
  Speaker 1: then on Twitter, I'm Michael Michelle. So I'm Michael Michelle,
• 1:43:30
  Speaker 1: and then with three e's at the end, um, and
• 1:43:32
  Speaker 1: then I've worked in teen, Vogue and Vogue and L
• 1:43:36
  Speaker 1: and Harvard Bazaar, UM and Nylon, and you can just
• 1:43:41
  Speaker 1: I'm Michael Michelle at all of those sites. And I'm
• 1:43:43
  Speaker 1: just feeling up thing around the internet, you know, and
• 1:43:47
  Speaker 1: um in school, uh, trying to get a film degree
• 1:43:52
  Speaker 1: and yep, so very relatable stuff. So we're just here
• 1:43:57
  Speaker 1: trying to make art, review art. I'm just here on
• 1:44:00
  Speaker 1: in this hell. Yes, And you can find us in
• 1:44:04
  Speaker 1: all the usual places. You can find us on Instagram
• 1:44:07
  Speaker 1: and Twitter, at bachtel cast, you can find us on
• 1:44:10
  Speaker 1: our Patreon ak Matreon at patreon dot com, slash backtel Cast,
• 1:44:15
  Speaker 1: where you get to bonus episodes a month for simply
• 1:44:19
  Speaker 1: five dollars a month. Wow, in addition to our almost
• 1:44:23
  Speaker 1: one hundred episode back catalog. Wow. Incredible, brave of us.
• 1:44:32
  Speaker 1: And you can also grab some merch at our merch store,
• 1:44:36
  Speaker 1: t public dot com slash the Bechtel Cast. There's all
• 1:44:40
  Speaker 1: kinds of good ease, so go grab them. I haven't
• 1:44:43
  Speaker 1: heard the word goodies used in casual conversation and many moods.
• 1:44:48
  Speaker 1: Thank you for that any time. And uh, Jamie, we've
• 1:44:54
  Speaker 1: successfully pulled off this podcast that we've all done together.
• 1:44:59
  Speaker 1: So now come we kill Liam Neeson. So we can
• 1:45:02
  Speaker 1: kill Liam Neeson and now we have five million dollars
• 1:45:07
  Speaker 1: with Bay