Latest / Through the Line: Packaging and Processing / Packaging as Public Health Policy, Cybersecurity on the Line, and SKU Complexity: End of the Line

Transcript

Packaging as Public Health Policy, Cybersecurity on the Line, and SKU Complexity: End of the Line · Through the Line: Packaging and Processing

• 0:03
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome to Through the Line, the podcast exploring innovations and information across the packaging and processing landscape.
• 0:11
  SPEAKER_00: From topics impacting consumer packaged goods and healthcare packaging to the latest technologies in food processing operations.
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_04: Hello, and welcome to this End of the Line podcast, the podcast slash video where the editors of PMMI Media Group get together and talk about the latest happenings in the processing and packaging industry.
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_04: I'm Derek Teal, editor of Pro Food World, and joining me is editor-in-chief of Healthcare Packaging, Liz Cunio, Sean Riley, editor-in-chief of OEM magazine, and Matt Reynolds, editor of Packaging World.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_04: And as we were getting together talking about things to talk about on the show, and a lot of us really had nothing.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_04: But Liz, you I think you had something, right?
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_01: I do have something, yes.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you, Darren.
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_01: Yay.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_01: We had a pretty interesting discussion this week with Dan Felton from the Flexible Packaging Association.
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_01: And we talked about packaging policy's role in public health preparedness.
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_01: And it was an interesting topic.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_01: He emailed me about it.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_01: And then when healthcare packaging is not the first thing that comes to mind when you hear public health preparedness.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_01: But in talking to him, it really is part of the preparedness policy.
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_01: And if you think about preparedness in terms of having enough medicine or medical devices for a population, we do think that, okay, we do need the packaging that can bring these products to the patient safely.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_01: So any disruption in raw materials, converting capacity, or packaging deliveries can delay these essential healthcare supplies.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_01: So we really talked about how packaging needs a place in the broader conversation when we talk about supply chain resilience.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_01: And this is really piggybacking hearing policies come out like EPR or things that were strict chemical uses like PFAS, cutting out certain materials used.
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_01: So when you really dive into that, it has a pretty big impact on the packaging, on the product, and really on the whole supply chain.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_01: So we really talked about those consequences and how switching materials really affects the package.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_01: It affects equipment capability or compatibility, I should say, a product protection distribution.
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_01: And then in the case of medical devices and pharmaceutical, we talk about sterilization.
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_01: Will that new material uphold during a sterilization process?
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_01: Obviously, super important and just something else to think about.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_01: So policymakers, when we talk about these EPR programs and recycled content mandates and such, they really need to account for those timelines that really go into and touch everything that I just said about getting through sterilization and equipment compatibility.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_01: So it's an interesting conversation.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_01: We talked a little bit about how long some of these changes really take.
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_01: And 12 to 18 months seems to be like the minimum for the industry.
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_01: Three to five years sometimes, depending on what material change is happening, if how viable it is.
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_01: Do we have the material ready?
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_01: Do we have enough?
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_01: So making these switches and demanding these policies that demand more recyclability is tough and really big implications for the industry.
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_04: Now, when you're talking about making changes, how big of an impact does the current economic climate have on that?
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_04: Because you say that there's such a long lead time with changing a package, but do current costs impact that, or is there are you locked into like a supplier when you're making these assessments?
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_01: I think maybe people could be locked into supplier.
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_01: I think a bigger issue is you're locked into that package being because of regulations, you've already shown and proved that package is what you say it is.
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_01: So once you make a change on the healthcare side, it's a really big deal.
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_01: You have to get it re-certified.
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_01: I can't even think of the right word, but it goes to that you start over on the process.
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_01: You can't just come up with a healthcare package and say, yay, there's tons of testing that needs to be done.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_01: There's tons of filing and proving that the package can do what you say.
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_01: So making any change really throws that whole process off and starts over.
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_01: So that's why it's such a big deal.
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_01: It sounds maybe simple, right?
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_01: Just make it a recyclable plastic, but you really have to prove that it performs the same way under a series of tests, that it can still be sterilized.
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_01: So that's why it's a bigger deal time-wise to really approve that.
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and it's not just sterile sterility, is one thing, efficacy in general, shelf life on these things.
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_03: That's why I think I haven't looked poured through SB54 in California.
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_03: I know that's that tends to be held up as one of the more, I would say, strict EPR laws.
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_03: But amongst all of them, I think there are frequent carve-outs for medical device and pharma just because of the different set of circumstances for safety.
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_03: Like you said, sterility and efficacy is the most important thing.
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_03: Everything has to work.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_03: Safety is huge.
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_03: It's got to be safe and it's got to last long enough.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_03: So, really, I think the well, EPR is definitely going to have a big impact on all of our packaging landscape.
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_03: I think the more careful-minded crafters of EPR laws are aware that some things take time.
• 5:07
  SPEAKER_03: Lizier industry notoriously takes uh a little more time.
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_03: And then there are some, there's a ceiling and a floor for those factors of making sure that the medicine or the medical device is safe and sterile when they're inserting a Bo Jackson style metallic hip, then it's got to be sterile.
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_03: And there's no wiggle room in the way that some other industries might face.
• 5:28
  SPEAKER_03: I would say in the middle there is you, Derek, is the the food.
• 5:31
  SPEAKER_03: There's some carve outs, particularly for smaller food companies that don't have the scale.
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_03: And then the least carve outs probably end up with more of the consumer goods, the home cleaners, and that kind of thing.
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_03: So there are there is a sliding scale, but it's unquestionable that EPR is going to definitely ripple over all industries that are packaged goods.
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and we talked about some of those exceptions and exemptions, I should say.
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_01: And that so while it might not be mandated now, you can see the writing on the wall where we might have to switch our attention to that.
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_04: So Matt's Bo Jackson reference.
• 6:03
  SPEAKER_04: Well, I was just about to say that you probably lost a lot of younger people, are confused.
• 6:07
  SPEAKER_04: Bo, who's Bo Jackson?
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_04: People of a certain age know Bo.
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_04: Well, we know him.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_04: We know Boy.
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_01: I'm embarrassed that I don't know who Bo Jackson is.
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, we lost Liz already.
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_02: Oh no.
• 6:19
  SPEAKER_02: Wow.
• 6:19
  SPEAKER_01: I might have to Google it.
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_02: He was like a super athlete that could play any sport basically, and yeah, got busted his hip, and it was like, how could he bust his hip?
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_02: He's Superman, he's made out of steel.
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so we did we bring this up because he you're talking about a maybe a device that's in his hip.
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_01: Is that what happened?
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_03: He was one of the early total hip replacement guys.
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_03: Uh now it's like an outpatient type of thing.
• 6:41
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_03: Um for him, it was a little more involved.
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_03: Granted, he is, like Sean said, one of the greatest athletes that ever lived, so he had some advantages, but he would have been susceptible to a non-sterile metal hip.
• 6:55
  SPEAKER_03: Again, packaging serves its purpose in getting him up and walking again.
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 7:01
  SPEAKER_04: And now for something completely different, Sean.
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_04: But you had said when we were chatting earlier that you said you saw something related to cybersecurity that caught your attention.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, actually, I did a podcast which seems very meta to be talking about a podcast on a podcast, but we'll do it anyway.
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_02: I did it with our colleague Andy Lamaski of PMMI.
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_02: He's our IT and cybersecurity expert.
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_02: And I and maybe this is something that everybody knew, but I don't know.
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_02: It was pretty eye-opening to me.
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_02: So we all know about the cybersecurity training we've all gone through about phishing and don't open emails, and yes, exactly, and ransomware and all the bad things that can happen.
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_02: But at the end of the day, if something happens, your computer is going to lock up and it can be fixed.
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_02: You give it to IT and they're gonna fix it.
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_02: You're gonna get scolded, it's gonna be a hassle.
• 7:45
  SPEAKER_02: Maybe it's bad enough where you get fired or something like that, but it's not the end of the world.
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_02: But what we were getting into was talking about something like ransomware jumping from the front office.
• 7:53
  SPEAKER_02: If somebody opens an email in the marketing department and it jumps into the OT part of the operations, and now it's on a packaging line.
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_02: And I guess I'm aware, I'm not naive, I'm aware of that as a possibility.
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_02: Now you have HMIs spitting out error messages because the servo it's connected to is completely encrypted.
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_02: It's a pretty big deal.
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_02: It shuts down the line, obviously, with throughput being so important and speed and stuff like that, that's a big deal no matter what industry this is happening in.
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_02: But what Andy pointed out and was explaining, which was I found interesting, is that it gets worse because after you you solve the problem, after the the attack is ended and you get the line back up and running, you have this software that that is all over the place.
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_02: Like it might think it you're not just starting from the beginning of a line because it it shut down in the middle of it.
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_02: And you have to get everything that you had documented to make sure that your servos are in the same place that they were supposed to be.
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_02: Physically, they're in the same place, but like spinning-wise, they're not in the same place that they were when the line froze because you don't know what caused the freeze to begin with.
• 8:59
  SPEAKER_02: Things like sensors could be picking up differently than they were before, tolerances maybe exceeded, safety systems, things like that.
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_02: Everything is completely out of line, and you have to get it back to to kind of factory settings, but you might not know what factory settings were that you particularly had.
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_03: So to me that was yeah, those things that that rings very true.
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_03: The factory settings are basically a a blank slate, tabula rasa, where they had been honed in over years to be to to an extremely tight spec, and to start over, uh, that would be a nightmare.
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_03: So it's not just so you're saying it's not just the the eventual incident, it's it's the recovery from it that takes longer than expected.
• 9:39
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_02: So we said like you have to get with your designer.
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_02: So from like my standpoint, from a design standpoint, you have to design in segmentation to make sure that everything can't talk to everything.
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_02: You would think you want everything talking to everything, but now in this day and age, you don't.
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_02: You want to have certain segmentations that would block that off from happening.
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_02: Like things like we our industry finally has started to accept remote access and remote monitoring, stuff like that.
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_02: But if you leave that open all the time, that's just it's a free-for-all.
• 10:07
  SPEAKER_02: You can those type of things can jump in there.
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_02: So you have to shut them down.
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_02: So from a CPG standpoint, you want to make sure that your OEMs are doing those kind of things.
• 10:15
  SPEAKER_02: So I just found it interesting.
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_02: He said really the best thing you can do is make sure that you document everything.
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_02: But again, if you have these lines that are 20 or 30 years old, you have to start over and re-document now so that you have them in the event.
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_02: It's like a preventative from maintenance type thing where like you're doing it now in the event that something would happen, you would have everything, all your ducks in a row.
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_02: So it was just it was something that you know, Andy's on the ball that I wouldn't have thought of.
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_02: I just thought of line gets shut down, we fix it, click the switch, and it goes back up.
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, getting those settings back.
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_03: And of course, the person who who most likely had spent years honing and crafting the exact right setting and set of specs across, he's just retired.
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_03: So good luck.
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_04: Yep, exactly.
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, that's exactly the problem that you're seeing on anywhere down the line is you've got people coming in that might be great digitally, but when it comes to the actual mechanical side of it, they might not be trained on it, don't have that experience.
• 11:08
  SPEAKER_04: Somebody can listen to the machine and go, oh, this is what's wrong with it.
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_04: Go in and fix it or definitely get it back on calibrated properly.
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_04: Again, and then it's funny when you're talking about going back to square one with the machine.
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, then you might if you're talking 20, 30 years ago, you have paper documentation.
• 11:23
  SPEAKER_04: I don't know that any of those original settings would be on a computer somewhere.
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_04: Maybe they would be, but maybe not.
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_03: And some old version of an Excel document that hasn't been updated for and won't even run on a new computer, most likely.
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_03: Exactly.
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, when you got like this OT machine, it's Windows 95, you know, something like that.
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and that that is a funny, it's funny because I was gonna say that too.
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_02: Is that was another thing that he kind of said in passing is that how many of those operating systems are so antiquated that you wouldn't even know, wouldn't even think would still work that you're trying to repair.
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, it's a very difficult situation.
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so don't open any emails.
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_04: I think all of us have run into the problem where you try to interview somebody and a CBG and the security settings they have, it gets bounced back because they won't even accept a zoom call or to Zoom or something like that from a from a work account.
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_03: But I don't know.
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_03: Is there anything left to talk about?
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_03: Hey, I was uh traveling this week.
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_03: I got a few nuggets.
• 12:20
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, what do you got?
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_01: Where were you?
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I was I was spending the big bucks on a hotel in Midtown Manhattan to cover it's a subsection of an of a larger supply chain show.
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_03: It's called the e-commerce packaging and labeling expo.
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_03: It was at the Javit Center, and that was a co-location with a white and private label.
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_03: As a lot of packaging isn't coming from the big brands and CPGs, even in the healthcare side, Liz.
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_03: I learned about Fresenious Cabby.
• 12:45
  SPEAKER_03: It is a sort of a white label type of version of pharma that sells directly to hospitals as opposed to Pfizer, who has these drugs that are actually marketed to us on Super Bowl Sunday and every day in between.
• 12:57
  SPEAKER_01: Now, is white label the same as private label, but that's what they call it in healthcare, or does that mean something else?
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_03: White label and private label, I would say, are similar.
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, a white label product would be a contract manufacturer, contract package, or contract manufacturer of a certain style of things, say juices or nutraceuticals.
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, because I didn't know either.
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, they make a product and and then anybody can come and put their brand name on it, put their face on it, but it tends to be their own product and the different or a single product that's sold in New York and LA and everywhere in between every region, but it has a different local flair to it as somebody else is selling it.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_03: But there's a lot of emerging brands in that area.
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_03: They try and put their own spin on it.
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_03: Sometimes they have their own formulation, sometimes it's an off-the-shelf product.
• 13:39
  SPEAKER_03: But I ended up stumbling across a really interesting supply chain discussion that became a packaging discussion, and it was from none other than Nestle Nutrition and Health.
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_03: I'm gonna butcher the name, but her name is Erica Nwanishwidu.
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_03: I apologize about the name, but she's with Nestle, and a big part of her job is sitting across from brand teams and telling them which ideas, packaging ideas, are gonna make money and which might incur risk or get them into trouble.
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_03: And one of her questions was about forecasting, which on the supply chain side of things, everything is about forecasting.
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_03: What's demand gonna be, demand planning?
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_03: And her first quote was that maybe your inventory issue, if you've got stock outs or you've got more inventory than you want and you're carrying all this inventory, both of which are bad situations.
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_03: You want to be able to thread the needle and be able to feed the pump of demand into as little holding as little inventory as possible, but without the dreaded stock out.
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_03: But maybe that inventory issue is not actually a forecast mistake, could be just a matter of just too much complexity.
• 14:43
  SPEAKER_03: So here's an example that she gave that I keep thinking about it.
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_03: It's imagine Nestle, Nutrition and Health, they have three flavors of, let's say, a health drink, strawberry, chocolate, and vanilla.
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_03: But they've got four pack counts.
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_03: And not only that, they've got three places like distribution centers, DCs, where they're going to be stocking them.
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_03: They've got one in Milwaukee, one in New York, and one in, I don't know, Phoenix.
• 15:07
  SPEAKER_03: So once you do the math and multiply those, like the different SKUs, the different pack counts, different pack styles, and places, that gets to 36 what you would call inventory positions.
• 15:18
  SPEAKER_03: It was actually more than the skews themselves.
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_03: They're a certain chocolate, uh, strawberry or vanilla, but not only that, is it in a two-pack or a four-pack?
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_03: And not only that, is it in Milwaukee or is it in Phoenix?
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_03: The number of inventory positions for even three products can really pile up and do so pretty quick.
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_03: And it's not the people, she's not blaming the people who made these forecasts.
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_03: So each one probably made sense in their own market.
• 15:43
  SPEAKER_03: This is how much demand we're gonna have, this is how much we're gonna need in Milwaukee, and this is how much we're gonna need in Phoenix.
• 15:49
  SPEAKER_03: But the brand teams, they're only they're myopic and they only see what's happening in their region or what's going on.
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_03: So, how do you get a brand team to come around to the idea that maybe we should dial back on the complexity?
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_03: We should have fewer SKUs, we should have fewer pack sizes, we should rein in SKU proliferation.
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_03: So, for those that are working on the packaging side, it's worth thinking about how much benefit this extra variety, this extra skew is going to bring you compare in money.
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_03: And she puts this down into PL dollars and cents terms.
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_03: If you're going to be adding risk for stock-outs and risk for actually holding too much inventory in a location, let's say something's just not selling in Milwaukee.
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_03: They don't like chocolate in Milwaukee for some reason.
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_03: So if it's not selling there, but you're preparing yourself to fail by carrying all this inventory.
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_03: So interesting talk.
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_03: I wasn't expecting supply chain and packaging to have that kind of handshake, but the handshake and the kind of the tension, the push and the pull between those two elements is really complexity.
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_03: Brand owners or brand design people want to have a variety for everybody from the two ounce up to the 14 ounce and every size in between, because they want to hit every market and sell to every potential market.
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_03: But that complexity really creates some supply chain problems that are actually a greater risk than not being able to sell that two-ounce bottle to that one small market in Milwaukee, if that makes sense.
• 17:11
  SPEAKER_04: It makes complete sense, at least from my perspective, because, like you just said, you know, if you're a manufacturer or CPG, you want to make sure that everybody wants your product.
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_04: And so you want to tailor that to the specific wants of that area.
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_04: But at the same time, if you're looking at operational efficiency, it's much more efficient to have one giant facility that cranks everything out as opposed to multi sending stock to all the different having a productive facility locally and producing it there might make more sense to get that regional flavor correct.
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_04: But in terms of operational supply chain, it's really not much more efficient or not efficient at all.
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_04: So I can see that, especially if you're talking about different size packs and everything else from there.
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_04: And I think that's a big problem that food and beverage manufacturers have is trying to hit those specific flavors and marry that with those just operational aspects that just don't jive with one another.
• 18:05
  SPEAKER_04: It's an interesting problem, and I think that's a more of a problem for the larger companies that are trying to hit those hit everything, make everybody happy, and then you've got the yeah, it's it's definitely a problem for the most sophisticated companies and not the least.
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_03: And it's a problem where you have whole supply chain teams on one side and packaging and brand manager teams on the other, and it's just a tension that's always going to be there.
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_03: That the optimized answer is obviously somewhere in between.
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_03: You want to sell the most units to the most people, but the operational side is you want to be able to Henry fortify your operations as much as possible.
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_03: How much variety?
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_03: Variety adds complexity, complexity adds risk.
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_03: So striking that balance is the name of the game for somebody like Erica.
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_03: And Erica, I hope is I'm hoping I can convince her to join us at the Packaging World Forum next June in Chicago to have something similar with more of a to have those brand owners and brand designers in the room to hear her trials and tribulations on the complexity side because I think the brand owners need to hear it.
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_04: Maybe she'll be at PAC Expo in just a couple weeks, guys.
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_04: That's coming.
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_04: It's October.
• 19:17
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 19:17
  SPEAKER_04: October 2nd, we're recording this.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_04: It's coming right up.
• 19:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_03: We're already making appointments.
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_03: The emails are coming in.
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, October happened.
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_04: My appointment book just started immediately, it started to fill up.
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_03: Summer is definitely over.
• 19:35
  SPEAKER_03: The the slow, lazy days of summer are long past at this point.
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, that's why you're indoors.
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_03: True.
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_01: That's right.
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_01: It's been a while, yeah.
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_03: We've had about three straight days of rain in Chicago.
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_03: I was in New York, I didn't get to see it, but whatever was left of Hurricane Polo has made my backyard a muddy mess.
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_03: So that's why I'm indoors.
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_03: Very good.
• 19:56
  SPEAKER_04: Unless anybody has anything else.
• 19:59
  SPEAKER_04: I think we've said it all.
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_01: And then some.
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_04: And then some.
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_04: Thanks everybody for listening to this End of the Lion podcast.
• 20:07
  SPEAKER_04: And we will catch you next week.
• 20:11
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you for listening to Through the Line Packaging and Processing.
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_00: You can listen to more episodes on all streaming platforms.
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_00: Be sure to visit us at packworld.com, profoodworld.com, and healthcarepackaging.com for more packaging and processing news.
• 20:27
  SPEAKER_00: This podcast was edited by Bray Guns.