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Nicola Willis: Finance Minister on the costs of New Zealand hosting the next America's Cup · Best of Business

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  Speaker 1: You're listening to a podcast from News talks'b follow this
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  Speaker 2: Finance Minister Nichola Walliss is with us as per usual
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  Speaker 2: on a Monday. Hey Nikola, Hey, Ever, after speaking to
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  Speaker 2: Chris Bishop about about an hour ago, I think I
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  Speaker 2: have realized we are not really in the running at
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  Speaker 2: all for hosting the America's Cup. Would that be fair?
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  Speaker 3: Well? First things first, it's awesome that we won, and
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  Speaker 3: it's very exciting not just as a sporting achievement but
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  Speaker 3: for the designers, the builders, the sailors, the scientists, everyone involved.
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  Speaker 3: So let's actually take a little moment to celebrate that.
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  Speaker 3: Second thing. I'm not normally one to blow smoke, but
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  Speaker 3: there is a verious, stute commentator who has said recently
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  Speaker 3: that it is a business decision for Grant Delta as
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  Speaker 3: to where he wishes the Cup to take place, and
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  Speaker 3: it is a business decision for New Zealand too. Yes,
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  Speaker 3: and that a stute commentator being you, I think that
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  Speaker 3: thank you for listening it well, which is that ultimately
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  Speaker 3: it is up to Tea New Zealand to decide where
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  Speaker 3: they wish to host it, and they will make that
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  Speaker 3: judgment based on all number of things which are outside
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  Speaker 3: our control. And then there is a question if they
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  Speaker 3: ask us about what contribution we might be prepared to make.
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  Speaker 3: And we need to be very hard headed about that
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  Speaker 3: because dollars are precious and dollars can go to many purposes,
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  Speaker 3: including schools and hospitals.
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  Speaker 2: So are we waiting for them to come to us
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  Speaker 2: rather than us chasing it with them?
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  Speaker 3: That's right. We'll wait for them to come to us
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  Speaker 3: here and as ultimately it's their decision.
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  Speaker 2: Okay, hey, listen, this thing about Health New Zealand that
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  Speaker 2: blows my mind is why they think they need to
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  Speaker 2: have this conference in the first place. Of three hundred people.
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  Speaker 2: Can you understand this?
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  Speaker 3: Well, Look, the first I learned of it was today.
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  Speaker 3: I do accept that when you've got big organizations that
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  Speaker 3: are spread across the country, there can be value in
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  Speaker 3: bringing leaders together to talk about what can we do
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  Speaker 3: together to drive productivity, to drive value for money, to
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  Speaker 3: get better results for patients. And I understand that was
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  Speaker 3: the intent of this event. There's no intention to repeat it.
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  Speaker 3: And I note that subsequent to that event, of course,
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  Speaker 3: the government chose to send in the commissioners. The board
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  Speaker 3: has been replaced by a commissioner who has an absolute
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  Speaker 3: drive and goal to get resources to the front line
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  Speaker 3: for patients.
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  Speaker 2: I get that. I get that about leaders But how
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  Speaker 2: big is cabinet? Is it twenty people?
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  Speaker 3: Twenty? And it's in cabinet?
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  Speaker 2: That is how big a leadership size is? Right, That's
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  Speaker 2: how many people you get together to make decisions, not
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  Speaker 2: three hundred. That's taking the mickey, isn't it.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, Look, I understand this was three hundred people, and
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  Speaker 3: ultimately it's up to each organization to judge how it
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  Speaker 3: will get good value. And I've been very explicit with
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  Speaker 3: government entities that I expect them to be able to
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  Speaker 3: demonstrate that their activities are going to deliver value to
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  Speaker 3: the front line. And I also have made it clear
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  Speaker 3: that I expect them not to continue with activities that
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  Speaker 3: aren't delivering results for people. So that's the measure.
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  Speaker 2: Okay, do you know the actual final cost of this conference?
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  Speaker 2: Because as far as I can see, we haven't actually
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  Speaker 2: factored in flights and accommodation for these three hundred.
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  Speaker 3: No, I don't have that number. I understand that. I
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  Speaker 3: understand from the reporting on it that those who attending
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  Speaker 3: the conference were encouraged to coincide that with other engagements
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  Speaker 3: and meetings that they needed to have for business reasons.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, is it worth I mean, has it got
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  Speaker 2: to the point with the public service where you guys
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  Speaker 2: actually need to put it in very simple terms to them,
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  Speaker 2: no more conferences like this.
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  Speaker 3: Well, we are making it very clear that we expect
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  Speaker 3: them to be very rigorous about how they use public
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  Speaker 3: money and the most effective lever we have for achieving that,
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  Speaker 3: Heather is making it clear that there's not going to
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  Speaker 3: be abundant supplies of money into the future. We're not
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  Speaker 3: going to keep filling up the money jar like the
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  Speaker 3: last government did. Because when people can look forward to
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  Speaker 3: noodle's more cash every time a budget rolls around, then
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  Speaker 3: there's no need to tighten their belts. But when they
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  Speaker 3: see that, actually the cost of doing all of these
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  Speaker 3: conferences and consultations and all of that stuff is that
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  Speaker 3: we might not then have enough money for the essential
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  Speaker 3: people in our organization. Well, any public agency is going
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  Speaker 3: to make more sensible decisions, and that's the situation they
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  Speaker 3: are in with this government.
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  Speaker 2: Do you feel vindicated by that inflation number last week
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  Speaker 2: that showed that tax cuts were not really inflationary at all.
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  Speaker 3: You know what I do. I do because I will
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  Speaker 3: never forget the conger line of people in the election
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  Speaker 3: campaign who wanted to tell us that tax relief would
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  Speaker 3: be inflationary. I'll ever forget Chris Hopkins and Barbara Edmonds
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  Speaker 3: wanting to stop New Zealanders keeping more of their hard
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  Speaker 3: earned money because they said it was going to drive inflation.
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  Speaker 3: It was never going to do that. It hasn't done that.
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  Speaker 3: We delivered tax relief and low inflation and dropping interest rates.
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  Speaker 3: And I'm really pleased for New Zealanders.
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  Speaker 2: But that's the case. I'm reading in the week I'm
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  Speaker 2: reading the weekend papers and something. There's this long interview
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  Speaker 2: with you and something something fascinated me. They said, overall,
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  Speaker 2: Nikola Willis thinks that the time for aggressive economic reform
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  Speaker 2: is right, and then quotes you are saying, I am
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  Speaker 2: more impatient and more reform minded. What are you thinking?
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  Speaker 3: Well, what I'm thinking is that I have met with
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  Speaker 3: so many New Zealanders who have said, to me, New
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  Speaker 3: Zealand can't go on like this, limping along with slow growth,
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  Speaker 3: talking about the same problems, whether that's declining achievement, low productivity,
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  Speaker 3: long waiting lists. We have to be prepared to do
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  Speaker 3: things differently and take bolder steps. And so our government.
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  Speaker 2: Here, Nicola, are you still there?
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  Speaker 3: Yes, let's do some bold stuff.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, we've got you. Okay, So what are you sorry?
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  Speaker 2: We just lost you for a techi there?
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  Speaker 3: So I was having quite I was waxing quite lyrical there.
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  Speaker 2: No, it was so brief. We only lost you for
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  Speaker 2: a second. What we got the essence of it? What
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  Speaker 2: is what are you thinking?
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  Speaker 3: Like?
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  Speaker 2: How bold are you thinking? What are the areas you
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  Speaker 2: think we need some significant reforming.
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  Speaker 3: Well, we have been very clear that education reform is
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  Speaker 3: necessary yea to deliver the basics brilliantly, and we are
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  Speaker 3: shaking up the skills. We're clear that we need to
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  Speaker 3: get more overseas investment in this country to create better
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  Speaker 3: paying jobs, and that means loosening the laws of the
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  Speaker 3: land to allow that to happen and being very clear
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  Speaker 3: that we're going to roll out the welcomes. It's also
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  Speaker 3: about being far more minded towards competition. So you've seen
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  Speaker 3: me talk about the banks, but it's also about the
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  Speaker 3: regulatory settings across a number of other sectors. On infrastructure,
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  Speaker 3: We've had enough with the consent in Quagma. We're cutting
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  Speaker 3: through the Rima. We're doing that fast track consenting. There's
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  Speaker 3: been protests on Queen Street, but I think New Zealanders
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  Speaker 3: want to see development and growth and those projects will
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  Speaker 3: deliver it. We're going to invite private capital and to
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  Speaker 3: help us build some roads, help us build some of
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  Speaker 3: the infrastructure New Zealand needs for the future. And then
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  Speaker 3: on the science system, we've had enough of the debate
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  Speaker 3: about whether or not we need gen editing. We're bringing
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  Speaker 3: in being editing regulator and we're getting on with it.
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  Speaker 3: So across the board, we are making big changes because
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  Speaker 3: this moment in history demands it of us.
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  Speaker 2: On the foreign money stuff, are you prepared to cut
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  Speaker 2: the corporate tax rate?
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  Speaker 3: Well, that would come with a significant cost, and the
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  Speaker 3: thing I'm always conscious of is it wouldn't just attract
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  Speaker 3: new investors. It would also involve giving potentially quite a
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  Speaker 3: windfall gain to the likes of the big banks, the
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  Speaker 3: big tailcos the exhibit. So to my mind, we need
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  Speaker 3: to think about the text system's role in incentivizing investment
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  Speaker 3: and productivity, and there are always new things we can
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  Speaker 3: be considering there. We certainly shouldn't be considering things that
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  Speaker 3: tell people they shouldn't grow their capital and they shouldn't
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  Speaker 3: grow their productivity, and so we need to remain open
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  Speaker 3: to that. But we're also and I've been really clear
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  Speaker 3: about this, we're fiscally constrained. I have a job to
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  Speaker 3: do to get the books back in order, so anything
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  Speaker 3: we do we have to be able to pay for.
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  Speaker 2: Okay, did you read about best Start in the papers today?
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  Speaker 3: I haven't read about that.
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  Speaker 2: These are the childcare people who declared themselves a charity
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  Speaker 2: about nine years ago and therefore oh and had a
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  Speaker 2: sale to facilitate the transition into a charity. Now they
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  Speaker 2: don't pay any tax. I think you should go and
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  Speaker 2: read about that and then tell me when you're going
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  Speaker 2: to start taxing the charities.
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  Speaker 3: I know that if my IID people were here, they
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  Speaker 3: would tell me it would be most unwise to comment
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  Speaker 3: on the tax of fears of an individual organization. But
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  Speaker 3: what we have put on the Tax Policy Work Program
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  Speaker 3: the Minister of Revenue and I is another look at
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  Speaker 3: the charity sector to make sure that the rules there
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  Speaker 3: are working fairly and that they're not being abused.
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  Speaker 2: And when we get a decision from you guys on that.
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  Speaker 3: Well, the deadline that I've set at a budget next
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  Speaker 3: year and I have not taken any proposals to kebnet
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  Speaker 3: has yet.
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  Speaker 2: Good stuff, Hey, Nichola, thanks very much, really appreciate it,
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  Speaker 2: and thank you for listening to the show. Niicola willis
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  Speaker 2: Finance Minister.
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