Latest / Imagine If with Doone Roisin | Health, Wealth & Wisdom for Women (formerly Female Startup Club Podcast) / ADHD in Women: I Made My Husband A Brain Manual (And It Changed Everything!)

Transcript

ADHD in Women: I Made My Husband A Brain Manual (And It Changed Everything!) · Imagine If with Doone Roisin | Health, Wealth & Wisdom for Women (formerly Female Startup Club Podcast)

• 0:00
  Welcome back to the Female Startup Club podcast. Thanks for having me again, and I'm very excited for today's discussion. For context, for everyone listening, I have invited my husband, PA, on the show. Again, you heard from him a couple of episodes ago, and we thought it would be fun to go through something that I sent you recently, my brain operating manual. Yeah.
• 0:25
  one of the millions of documents and screenshots that I'm meant to consume with absolute attention and be able to recite back to you. So yeah, I'm excited. This one felt like it was a very important one. Maybe it required so many different screenshots and documents to get to this point. So I'm very happy. I think this is quite a breakthrough and I'm
• 0:51
  It's been very impressive to see from close up the journey that you embarked on, just kind of bettering yourself, understanding more by you and understanding what's going on inside your brain, what's going on inside your body. And the transformation is pretty drastic. And so this is cool and we can see it now as well within the podcast. And I think that will be interesting for you to talk about. But most importantly...
• 1:17
  Please go ahead and share what you sent me. Yeah, okay. Okay, so...
• 1:23
  I guess also we should say we don't have like a formal structure or anything for this episode. We're just going to be rolling with it and talking through conversationally. But basically the context is I have discovered and been on this journey of having ADHD and kind of trying to understand myself better, why I am the way that I am and why some things just seem to be so difficult for me versus other things which seem to come so easily. And...
• 1:53
  I was sitting in the bath recently and spiraling like usual. And I was wanting to understand like what is actually happening inside my brain. Like what's happening to, you know, why can I kind of like,
• 2:11
  have issues regulating my emotions? What's happening to my executive function? Why do I get depleted with energy? What is happening in my brain that then makes my life be a certain way in all these different aspects? And I went down this kind of deep rabbit hole, which I love a deep rabbit hole. And I was kind of then understanding how I operate and why things are the way that they are. And I was kind of putting it together. And then I was thinking...
• 2:37
  oh, this is kind of interesting. Maybe you should have a copy of it so you understand me better. And yeah, that's where it started. So again, for a bit of context, as I just mentioned earlier, I literally receive, I can't even count between screenshots of things that you like, screenshot that you've seen that you think would be interesting for me to read. We're talking in the
• 3:03
  10 to 20 a day with sometimes documents that are like multi pages long, et cetera. So a lot of it is incredibly useful and incredibly valuable, but it's my job to kind of filter and see what actually makes sense and what doesn't, what applies and what's worth looking. Did you read it? So this one, of course, I always scheme whatever you send. This one just kind of struck me as a more important one.
• 3:28
  I think the title was My Brain, the Operating Manual or something along those lines.
• 3:35
  I have it here. I can tell you exactly what it was. Yeah. So please tell us exactly, maybe just a tiny bit more context. Maybe how often do you have those kind of, not meltdowns, but those moments where you are depleted and you're just not understanding why that kind of prompted you again to send me this. And additionally, it could be interesting to kind of like pinpoint a few pivotal points that you've had over the last few years or months that led you to this.
• 4:04
  So how many times has it happened to me or something like that? It's like daily. Like I spiral daily. I'll have like some kind of emotional like turmoil in my head. And I remember you said this, like you saw something on social media recently and it was along the lines of reach out to your ADHD friends. They're struggling with a new problem today that you didn't even know existed. And it like literally sums it up because I'll get into like a few,
• 4:33
  thought process or a thought rabbit hole about something that will cause kind of a spiraled thought and then I'll go down that spiraled thought and then that can just wear me out from thinking about it too much or things that I think about often in a loop thinking pattern. Yeah.
• 4:51
  I'll try and solve whatever the problem is through thinking. Like I just need to like think harder to like get to the answer and then I can't solve it. So it goes around and around and around, which then exhausts me and I still haven't solved it. So I'm kind of driving myself insane. And it tends to get worse at the end of the week because then I'm like more tired. I've become, you know.
• 5:12
  like more worn out. And then my thoughts go from like, whatever I'm spiraling about, to then being like, oh, what if this, you know, overthinking and loop thinking and spiraling, what if this could actually drive you mentally insane? And then I'm like,
• 5:29
  you know, worried about like my stress levels in my brain and like what's happening in the chemicals and all this kind of thing. And then it's a whole new set of problems. So it's kind of a daily emotional battle with whatever it is. It could be, you know, just self-doubt or it could be, you know, a genuine problem or thing that we're trying to solve for the business. Or it could be something that I'm annoyed about in the world or like, you know, something that's going on kind of within our communities or whatever it might be. And then it gets worse as the week goes on.
• 5:59
  I mean, again, that's, that's for me, it's just very interesting to witness that because obviously you, you probably one of the most capable person I know, but you really, you can just see it in your face that you're just trying to solve some sort of issue that most likely is not an important issue at all at the time. There's like a million other things that you should be, or you could be focusing on. And that I think in this document is, it's, it's one of the, maybe one of the most interesting thing for me and we'll, we'll.
• 6:29
  I think a lot of people kind of maybe can relate to me more than they can relate to you. Because, of course, you know, statistically, there's more people that aren't neurodivergent. They're more neurotypical. I don't know the stats. Is that true, though? I'm not sure. I really don't know. I feel like we should fact check that. Yeah, no, I really don't know. But I'm assuming because, of course, most people aren't diagnosed with neurodivergence. But just things that for me...
• 6:54
  what it seemed like so logical for example we meet working and someone just asking oh what's the time or can you pass me a pen or can you do something that seems like such a logical thing and like not a distracting you know when you say oh please don't distract me i'm just in my mind that registers as okay cool let me not come and sit down next to you and be like what should where should we go on holiday that's a distraction or hey do you want to go and get a coffee that's a
• 7:23
  asking for a pen or asking for something super trivial for me in my head didn't qualify as distraction but now we've seen that it very much is so it's literally like painful when someone is trying to like when you're in like a deep focus you finally got into the rhythm you're like grooving you're like yeah yeah yeah and then someone's like
• 7:48
  And you're like, no, like, what do you mean? Like, I'm so, like, I'm dialed in. Because then when you bring someone back out of the dialed in, it's so hard to go back in because I guess the whole –
• 7:59
  you know, like the overarching thing is someone with ADHD or someone that's neurodivergent can't produce dopamine the same way that someone else does. So when your brain gets into a rhythm where it's got the dopamine and you're kicking your goals and you're ticking things off the list and you're like, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, and then someone's like, poke, your dopamine falls. And then to get back up to that place of like,
• 8:23
  operating. It's so difficult. And then for someone like you, you're an overproducer. And we've obviously done the genetic testing on this. We know this for a fact. You're someone who produces an insane amount of dopamine.
• 8:38
  So you're just always operating in that place and it's really easy for you to be interrupted, get back into it, shift tasks, go from one to another, do a million different things. Whereas I'm like, I need three hours to kind of get lost in just like doing this thing because I'll be doing the thing. But at the same time, I'll take off about 20 other things at once that like my I have to kind of like do the thing as it kind of.
• 9:00
  you know, I've opened up my email and I've got one goal to get something done in there, but then I get sidetracked, do five other things, but then I still come back to it and I close the loop and it's like, that's off the list plus, you know, five other small things. But like, it's still like a bit of a process. Yeah. And that I think was one of the most interesting thing for me, just kind of like the visceral pain that you experienced when I do this, which of course I had no clue. Just to go back to the earlier question I had. I can't work in an office.
• 9:28
  Yeah, I mean, that's... He's constantly tapped on the shoulder. I don't know how anyone gets anything done. Yeah, honestly, that's mind-boggling. But to go back to the earlier question I had was, one, the frequency at which he experienced those kind of meltdown slash self-doubt, like spiraling. And the second thing was about, can you pinpoint a few specific kind of like time or moments
• 9:54
  books or articles or something that you've read that kind of really prompted you to be like oh hang on a second maybe it's this and then that led you to today i don't know i don't know if i can pinpoint those kind of moments do you have an example
• 10:10
  One moment that I think we can fairly easily pinpoint is we both read The Course of Love by Alain de Botton and incredible book. Essentially, everyone who is in relationship or is thinking of being in relationship should read it. Yeah. Or just regardless. Just regardless. It's just incredible. Relationship or not. The premise is that when you fall in love or when you're with a partner, don't, you
• 10:35
  You assume that because they're in love with you or you're in love with them, that they should know you to a really deep level and they should understand all of your needs and be able to decipher your mood, decipher all of the...
• 10:51
  But the reality is most people don't even know it themselves. And a few that do, why they're angry or why the brain operates in a certain way and etc, etc, don't even communicate that to the partners or to the whatever it is at work, etc, etc. And essentially, because you're in love, you expect that the other person should be able to guess. And then the friction comes because you're hoping that someone can easily understand why, for example, for you when I come and, you know,
• 11:18
  ask you a random little question that for me, it's like a bit of banter, kind of cute little thing. But for you, it's like literally pain. You're like, but why? And of course, we never fight that way. But that was a pivotal point in a book that was like, wow, I never thought about this. And so then now when you sent me this, I was able to kind of relate it back to this. And yeah, I feel like this is really an incredible thing.
• 11:44
  like update in terms of understanding how your brain works and the things that I should avoid. So maybe I think now it's time to probably bring this up and just go through it. I just generally think that so many people are going to be able to connect and kind of see themselves through that. And maybe after that, just explain how you even got to that point in terms of like what you prompted personally.
• 12:07
  you know, whatever you've used, Claude or Chagipity to get to that point. Oh, I mean, who knows? That could have been a long list of prompting to try and get to the final thing. But I think for me, it was about I get so frustrated with myself and then I get so, like, just angry and annoyed and in all those kind of different emotions about myself because I just can't seem to figure out something that I'm trying to solve. And...
• 12:35
  like an existential crisis. But then I started just simply by observing the things that were happening to me and trying to articulate what was happening or how I was feeling and then feeling like I don't understand. But then you also don't understand. And I want to know what's happening so I can kind of...
• 12:54
  tell you as well. And I think recently I've also started trying to just, when something happens in the moment, like when I observe something in the moment, how I feel or how I see that we're different, I'll tell you out loud and be like, oh, so this is what's happening for me right now in my brain. So then you understand more just like through a practical, here's an exact example versus like, this is obviously the how my brain works operating manual. Um, yeah,
• 13:22
  So, okay, let's go to the top one. Oh, that's right. I read something recently that was like, it might have been on social media, that said something like, a regular brain has this many thoughts that it's processing at any kind of day or whatever. And let's say, I don't know what the real number is, because I forget, but it was like 10,000. And then a neurodivergent brain is processing like 30,000. And so you've kind of got all these things happening and different tracks happening in your brain at any one time.
• 13:50
  And so because the brain is always kind of running in that mode and it doesn't have a true kind of like wind down, it basically means that by the end of the week you're just depleted. You're tired because your brain capacity is just like, I can't think anymore. And so for me, things like...
• 14:12
  the mental fatigue around decision-making things and especially by the end of the week where I'm like, I just can't decide. Like, I have no clue. Like, I can't answer another question about, like, the house or what we're going to do for the renovations or, like, another project in another different direction. I have to be, like, almost not thinking about things and I almost need to have...
• 14:31
  or according to the research that I did, I need to make sure that I have more scheduled time just alone and like idle and not trying to like solve something or think about something and just be kind of quiet and still. Yeah, I think really just paint a picture to the listeners here. What are you looking at? Like how's it formatted? And I would even suggest that you'd read the dot points. I think that that would be kind of interesting because a lot of people, as I said, will probably be in the same shoes as you are.
• 15:01
  So the first one, the first bucket is your brain is always running. So an ADHD brain doesn't have a true idle mode, even in the absence of active tasks. It's still continuing to process, monitor and generate thoughts in the background. And so a realistic example of that is like, let's say Beck, my best friend, I know that she has something to do by a certain deadline.
• 15:24
  I've got that deadline also just constantly like every day, like filtering through my, oh, I wonder if she's done that yet. Or maybe I need to remind her or maybe I need to put it in my diary. So like, I've got it on my list as well. That's like permanently stacked in with other things on my to do list. And so if there's nowhere where it's like documented.
• 15:42
  like in the calendar or an alarm that's set on my phone. It means that I'm like permanently trying to hold it in my brain and it won't let out until it's happened. And that can be something that's like a year away. Like, and I'll think about it every day until it happens in a year's time. Like, it holds in there. Even maybe if it's in a year's time, I might even have it in the diary, but it still holds in there.
• 16:01
  Like I had to send this follow-up email to Oprah's team and it's been like on my mind pretty much every day since I went and saw Oprah, which was like the end of last year. And like I think about it every other day and I only did it yesterday. Crazy. Okay, so the dot points. Yeah.
• 16:21
  You have a, like an ADHD brain has a baseline level of mental fatigue and it accumulates throughout the week independent of how much has actually been done. So in social and professional settings, significant energy goes towards self-regulation. So you're managing your impulses, you're monitoring your behavior, you're tracking your conversations internally and externally internally.
• 16:44
  You're performing in ways that feel natural to neurotypical people but actually require conscious effort for someone with ADHD. And this is a good example of you and I, how we're different. You can talk like all day to anyone about any topic constantly, like you would thrive in an office situation. Yeah.
• 17:03
  You can go to events every night. You can have dinners with different people. Whereas I'm like so socially wired to like have major breaks. And I think, you know, if I've done a podcast or if I've talked on stage or if I've gone to dinner with friends, even if they're close friends, I still am like using a different source of energy that then I have to recover from because I deplete from it. And you don't have that.
• 17:29
  Yeah. And again, like without knowing that about you, I would just wonder why can't we do this? And why can't we go and have more like, you know, lunch on Saturday, dinner on Saturday and also do something on Sunday. But now I totally understand and that makes a tremendous amount of sense. And it's not to say that we don't do anything. We are extremely busy and we are extremely social. But then I can understand that when we get home, you just want to be quiet or in the car on the way back. You might want to be quiet, whereas I'd be inclined to want to debate and do all this stuff.
• 17:59
  not feedback, but kind of dot points that
• 18:03
  of how your brain operates. And for me now, I just understand. Whereas before I'd be like, but why are we not talking about it more? Why, you know? Yeah. I always think I'm like a battery. Like I just, sometimes I just run out of battery. I'm like, sweetie. I literally, I'm just like, cool. Like I've hit it. Like I can't talk anymore. See ya. But that's still not at the finish. I'm not finished at this bucket yet. So the brain is always running bucket. This is what's obviously called masking. And then
• 18:31
  you're presenting a neurotypical version of yourself, which is exhausting in a way that's invisible to other people. And the result is that exhaustion at the end of a busy week is a neurologically deeper exhaustion than standard tiredness. And it's not comparable to the fatigue of someone without ADHD at the end of the week. So it is really that feeling of like a balloon that's deflated. Yeah, so interesting.
• 18:58
  This one is around, I guess, because of the podcast and having, you know, all the different social channels and kind of like managing my own inbox and DMs and the hundreds of requests I get daily, weekly, monthly requests.
• 19:15
  across all the channels, high inbound volume is a significant drain. So for the ADHD brain, every incoming message, request, notification, question is processed as something requiring a response or an action. Whereas a neurotypical brain can easily triage and defer the ADHD brain is holding on to all of it. So I guess that's what I was talking about. You know, if Beck has something happening and she's told me about it, then it like
• 19:41
  lodges in my brain as part of my kind of things to do, tasks to do, even though it's hers. And so then when I layer in like...
• 19:50
  I guess, like work plus social plus family plus, you know, each other, that kind of like inbound communication accumulates a cognitive load that is just constantly running in the background. And so for me, having like unread messages, that's just like permanently like, I've got to reply to that message, or I've got to read that message, or I've got to like, go back to that DM. And so it's like,
• 20:15
  all being held as a task, even though it's something that takes two seconds and it's super easy, but then it like adds up and stacks on. What does it say here? Unread or anything that's been unaddressed creates a pressure in the brain and it's
• 20:31
  It basically depletes the same reserves that are needed for relationships, creative work and clear thinking. So by the time a high inbound week is done, the capacity for anything else is just so low because your brain is treating just the inbound as like the same as like a heavy strategy session kind of thing. And then the result of that is that I'm often or I can get into a bit of a habit of, you
• 20:57
  being more like saying no to social things or saying no to like meeting up because I can't even like process the idea of having to then do another kind of social engagement because I'm so depleted. And then it's like not because of a lack of interest, but it's more because I just ran out of battery. So interesting.
• 21:16
  Scheduled plans cost energy even before they happen. We were talking about this the other day. I never really think too much about going overseas or like a holiday or a work trip or anything until the day of until I'm packing. Because to me, it's like so far in the future. If it's like next week, I'm like, yeah, but that's like on next week's list. I'm not even like able to like fully process it there. Like I know it's in my brain, but like.
• 21:41
  There's a million things today to get through to even get to, you know, like Sunday we're going overseas. And I haven't even, I don't know, overly thought about too much of it because it's on Sunday. And so what it was basically saying is that the brain begins preparing for upcoming events well in advance. But I force myself not to think about it because it's like I've got too many other things before then that I can even get to.
• 22:09
  And so what's it saying? It just basically means like it draws on your energy before they even occur. But I think I'm not so bad at that one. But on a more kind of like week to week basis when there's like a social dinner or, you know, an appointment or a deadline, I'll spend all day thinking about that thing. And it's kind of like I need just full no day of nothing scheduled to just kind of like re-catch up.
• 22:36
  I think we're about to get to the good bits where, again, the thing that I've been incredibly guilty of, which I think you're about to discover now. So the next one is unscheduled time is a neurological requirement. So days with no plans, no to-do list, no incoming demands. It's not downtime in the conventional sense. It's for an ADHD brain. It's the primary mechanism for deep recovery and reset.
• 23:03
  And so then without that unscheduled time that's regularly in the diary, the system just can't recover. The fatigue carries forward and it compounds week on week. And then that's what ends up leading to kind of burnout. And so if you think about having, you know, a house renovation or like work or if you had a family and you have all these different buckets like stacked on, stacked on, and you're just never getting time to kind of like –
• 23:27
  disconnect and you're just permanently stacking, stacking, stacking, your brain just never gets that rest. That is what leads to just being like, I'm just fully wiped. Like I'm not getting out of bed. The neurotypical brain rests naturally when it's not in use, but the ADHD brain requires deliberate removal of all inputs and obligations to approach that same state. And so, yeah.
• 23:54
  You have to protect those days and make sure that you maintain the conditions required for your brain to function well in the days that follow. Okay, this is one that's like really work focused. Too many roles fragment focus and output. The ADHD brain is capable of exceptional depth and quality of output, but only under the right conditions. One of those conditions is a manageable number of distinct responsibilities.
• 24:23
  When managing multiple roles simultaneously, like podcast, social media, sales, brand, product development, admin, customer service, content, and then like the other buckets of life, gym, personal admin, life admin, family, friends, hobbies, whatever else.
• 24:45
  the ADHD brain struggles to assign priority between them. So everything becomes, and I guess that's what we were saying at the start. It's like not being able to understand whether something should be the priority because my brain registers them all as the priority. So that's why I can go off in such a random tangent doing something that actually is like step 100 instead of the step now.
• 25:06
  everything in your brain registers as equally urgent, which makes it neurologically difficult to go deep on a single thing. The result is constant context switching, unfinished loops, scattered output, growing sense of overwhelm, despite significant effort being applied.
• 25:27
  And it's not disorganization. It's what happens to an ADHD brain when the volume of responsibilities exceeds what the executive function system can effectively manage and prioritize. So the solution is not more effort. It's fewer, clearer responsibilities with explicit priority. So the brain knows what to go deep on and what it can actually do well. And I think that's kind of like...
• 25:52
  something I can also forget if I don't have like a visual of something written down, I can forget that that's what was agreed upon like verbally. And then again, go in a different direction. Like massively, we would be doing a project. And that historically was something that I just couldn't understand. I'd be like, okay, but we've just discussed that this is the objective. We're going to do this is this.
• 26:11
  And then for me, you'd follow the course of action. But for you, that's not how it worked. And you'd go and do one thing, which would be probably, as you said, step 100 instead of step one. And then I'd be like, and you've put so much effort there. And I come back and be like, but yeah, but that doesn't – we don't even care about this yet because that doesn't – and so this I just used to not understand. I'm not even sure what I was trying to do then. But now at least I understand and I can be like, okay, well, first –
• 26:37
  Let's write down the priorities, what matters most and what needs to be done. Now, we make the list, we agree on that. And then you go and you're like an absolute machine that just goes and ticks everything off. And that's why you've seen like once you've got a clear defined role, you can absolutely go through a huge number of tasks back to back, you know, 750 episodes. That's insane when you think about it from reaching out to guests, you know, it's insane. So...
• 27:03
  That's been a very interesting thing for me that as a partner, I can easily add value to your life. Whereas before, I would try and help you solve whatever step 100 because I hadn't even paid attention really to what was the sequence as well. And so I would also then help you solve that one thing that you were trying to do, which in reality, that one thing wasn't shifting the needle at all because of step 100 of 200 steps.
• 27:29
  Um, so now that's been very interesting. And of course, uh, with the, with the latest tools, this is where leveraging AI and all of this makes a tremendous difference because now you can physically ask what should I focus on and give me the next five steps or three steps. Not cool.
• 27:47
  all the million step. And now you can really, and I see the speed at which you're able to go through things. Now it's sequenced in the right step or the right sequence. So that's really, I feel like that has made a big difference. Mainly also for me to be like, why are you doing this? And now I understand it. And I can just recalibrate.
• 28:08
  Yeah, it's so interesting. The next one is new suggestions land as additional things, not like a swap. So one of the most important practical points for a partner to understand is that when a new idea or a task is suggested, the ADHD brain typically receives it as something adding to the existing load, not as a replacement for something else. Yeah.
• 28:31
  And I guess there's a lot of talk often about emotional load and things that get layered on. And for me, as someone that's a very literal person, I'm someone that's not very good at sarcasm. I can come across as gullible or naive because someone will tell me something and I just take that as gospel. And I'm like, but that's what that person said. That's literally what you said or they said. And I take that as like...
• 28:59
  truth. And then you and I have had to kind of understand that when you're saying something to me like, oh, you should do, you know, you should start a new channel over here or whatever. And then I go and spend a million hours doing that thing. But it was just a suggestion that I've taken really literally. And I think that's where we've probably made a big shift in terms of you like really.
• 29:22
  especially with the house. Oh, we need to do this. We need to do this. Exactly. Let's do this. Or like, let's talk about this. And for you, it's like dreaming and just kind of like talking out loud. Whereas for me, I'm instantly in like, okay, cool. If we need to get a new fence, then we're going to have to start with the research and then we're going to have to figure out how we do it with the neighbours and we're going to have to figure out what we actually like. And then I should do a mood board with pictures and then I should like look into the pricing and then blah, blah, blah. But like, actually, this could be five years away. Of course. Yeah.
• 29:48
  Of course, yeah. And this feels like... And just after this, it's going to be an interesting point. But that, for me, has been probably the most important one because I used to just... I thought it was fun to brainstorm and to add things and to say, oh, we should do this, we should do that. That was literally my favorite sentence. But now I just understand that this just adds an immense load on your brain. And...
• 30:14
  It's not that we don't talk about things, but I need to make it clear that this is not, hey, we're doing this for real. And the step after that is essentially what you lack is the ability to kind of compare this to the existing reality.
• 30:32
  set of lists that you have so for example let's say you're focusing on on this and i say why don't we do this like in way down the line you immediately instead of comparing to what you're currently focusing on and be like is that worth adding to the list or not you just immediately add it to the list and then put that at equal priority to everything else so that's why it's on my daily correct and that's why you end up on on random tangents and stuff and so for me i'm
• 30:58
  you know, exactly, defense is a perfect example, all of this stuff. And I'm like, you know, I'm always thinking in my head, oh, so yeah, when we put a third level and we do this and we'll do that, that's just for fun discussing about it. But actually for you, you take that literally and you just go on in this full deep research on how to do all of this stuff. So I think as a partner to understand this, it's just incredible. First of all, to understand that,
• 31:26
  And if you read it further, it literally gives an advice on how I should approach adding or suggestions. Yeah, I think it's like the practical kind of how I need to operate or how my brain needs to operate, which I think everyone should do one of these. You should do one of these and give it to me too.
• 31:47
  You should observe yourself and your brain and your thoughts and then make me your brain operating manual. Without a doubt. Just on the topic of like when a new kind of project or a new loop gets started...
• 32:02
  especially if we haven't closed another loop. That's where I then get – I end up becoming quite scattered because I'm not able to switch context. I'm not able to switch all these different buckets that we need to be thinking about. And then I'm like, but we haven't closed the loop over here. We're just constantly – it's the way that I describe it. We're just constantly opening new loops, which then is like the buildup. But like to you, it's not a loop. It's not an open active project. But for me, I'm like –
• 32:28
  Okay, but how are we going to have time for all these things? Like, how are we going to have time for... I don't understand. But the practical reference is... And I think this is what's really interesting for anyone who maybe has ADHD or thinks they might have ADHD. But also just, like, if you're fucking tired and you're exhausted and you're overwhelmed and you're burnt out and you're like, what the hell? Like, what are the immediate steps? Yeah.
• 32:52
  So for me, it's having protected unscheduled days where there's just nothing in the diary. So when I open up my diary, there's like nothing there. I've got nothing on my to do list. I can kind of float and just like decide based on my mood, which I've always been a mood based planner, like both of us are quite mood based when we're pretty noncommittal. But yeah.
• 33:12
  Even just like if I have a little thing in my diary, it kind of like means that that whole day is like, well, I've got stuff to do. Whereas I kind of like a bit more of like a magical go with the flow. And being a productive person, even like if it's a Sunday, you know, I'll love to like clean out a new cupboard or like change my wardrobe or get something that's on some list somewhere done, but I don't like it having been like set in the diary the same way that the week has to be. So protecting the unscheduled days...
• 33:43
  for non-negotiable recovery.
• 33:46
  Before adding anything else that's new, identify what it replaces or what the system is, like how you're going to operationalize it. And I think that's a great one for us because we've kind of embarked on this journey of being like, okay, let's reduce the different things that you're focused on. Close down what needs to be closed down. Pause, scrap, like whatever, push it to the side so that it's less loops, but then like a very clear kind of loop.
• 34:16
  like clear projects that I'm working on, but also how they're systemized and like operationalized in the back end. And that's like, yes, it's business for sure, but it's also just, you know, changing the water filter or the humidifier or all these things that require more systems in place to like manage. Moving on.
• 34:36
  Offering to take decisions off the plate rather than adding more when capacity is low. And I guess that's like the classic, like, what do you want for dinner? Yep. And I'm like, I don't know. Like, let's think about it in the morning, not at the end of the day. There's no decisions here. Understand that scattered output means the plate is too full, not that effort is missing. So when it's kind of getting worse, it's like a sign of like...
• 35:05
  And I think actually what we've done really well recently, just to change thoughts here, what we've done really well is you sitting beside me and me showing you what it takes to do something and how long it actually takes. So you're really kind of clear on like something that might seem really easy or might seem really, you know, that it could be done quickly. But for me, it takes a really long time or it just actually takes a really long time. And then being like, oh, OK, so we need to reduce our expectations. I think we've done a really good job of that.
• 35:34
  Um, recovery after enjoyable events. So even if it's a social thing with like my favorite people and my favorite friends, basically still having like downtime so that it's maybe also being an only child, like raised an only child with a single mom in a lot of silence. I'm someone who just does enjoy silence, but with someone in the room or in the next room. Um...
• 36:03
  And a short, clear, protected list of core responsibilities. And it's not on here, but I would say that for me, I also need a visual. Like I need a diagram of what the system is that I'm focused on or a very clear list like on a post-it because I'll forget. Like remember when I started singing lessons and I put post-its in every room, like on every mirror, so it would trigger the thing that I was meant to do, you know, in that room, like my exercises. That was a great idea.
• 36:32
  This is why I have a lot of alarms. No, but honestly, and again, this is like you just see a tiny snapshot of the million hours of discussions on this topic and all the research that you've done. But essentially, this is just something that we've now embarked on is to try and understand ourselves better because that then derives...
• 36:53
  pretty much everything. If I understand how your brain works, no, first of all, if you understand how your brain works, you can then communicate with me about how your brain works, which then means that I can operate within the range that I can be as good as I can be. Because if I don't know,
• 37:08
  Again, me coming down and discussing about some fun little, you know, potential trip we could do in the middle of the day. That sounds like a fun thing to me. But for you, it's not at all. It's like a literally like, how dare you disrupt my departure from like, I'm deep in here. And like, now I've got to like switch all the way to this direction. And it's like, honestly, it's like painful.
• 37:29
  What's even worse is it could be a task that isn't important, right? So for me, I look and I'm like, oh, but you're only doing whatever the task is. Like it doesn't need, you know, it's not as if it distracts you from writing the most important pitch or, you know, email of your life. It's like literally just the most basic of all tasks. So for me, without knowing that, I would just be like, but what do you mean? Like you could stop your unimportant task to indulge me in whatever fun topic I wanted to discuss. But now that I understand this...
• 37:58
  It gives me a framework that's significantly easier for me to, you know, wait until you're finished or ask, hey, whatever it may be. And that, I think, has made a really big difference. So kind of embarking on this journey of understanding all of the different aspects of, you know, your brain, your body, which is going to be an interesting topic in future episodes.
• 38:24
  Are we going to talk about my body? No, you're understanding your body. I was like, I don't think so. You're understanding how it worked and all of this stuff. Obviously, the last three years, there's been a tremendous shift in how much better you feel within. So that also, you had to go on this massive journey of figuring out, why do I feel this way? Why do I feel that way? Et cetera, et cetera. So it just feels like it's a very interesting and cool...
• 38:50
  journey that we embarked on. And this is reflected in the new guest that you're having, you know, understanding how the brain of an Olympian works, understanding directly from psychologists, and really kind of like going deep on understanding questions that maybe previously people hadn't really asked themselves. And even just...
• 39:08
  the most basic question of all time, what do you want? Most people don't even embark on that decision, on that question, which then of course, that is pretty much the underlying question
• 39:21
  strategy for everything because if you optimize for the wrong thing i mean elon musk said the i don't know who said it but one of the worst thing an engineer can do is optimizing for something that shouldn't be there it feels like that's what we all do right we're like trying to optimize for this thing blah but actually maybe that thing shouldn't even be there in the first place or
• 39:43
  And that's for so many different things. If you're like happiness, you've got to understand what you actually truly desire. And then you can go after this. The classic example is hustling like crazy to make as much money as possible. Whereas maybe you'd just be happier in the countryside
• 39:59
  Again, I've just been really listening to the recent episode, and that's what Gemma as Beg was saying. And I was like, yeah, that's so true. And we are embarking on this journey. And now even business-wise, because I'm deploying a bit more time on FSC, I'm
• 40:17
  Again, just looking at everything we have and what is the objective, what is the goal, and are there some things that we don't need to put focus on now? It might be, again, the sequence. As I said, there's like 20 different things we want to have, and it's not that we don't want to have them in the future. It's which one do we need to do first?
• 40:35
  So then we can do step number two. So then we can do step number three. So then we can do that. So then we can finally achieve all the different things that we do. Because for you, your main goal is to protect your own, you know, like bandwidth. And that is...
• 40:51
  something you need to understand because before you know especially feel like we over the last 10 years spent our entire life surrounded by lajosa culture and it was just more more was the underlying theme and now i think we've understood that for you that that's not how you get the most out of it it's depth versus width and that's been something that we've done wrong and i think it's super cool that we're embarking on this journey which then you know
• 41:21
  what do you what advice do you have for partners of neurodivergence people or you know what what's what do you think i guess it's just like it's for both sides it's like going back to the book the alan butane the button yeah that that book it's like
• 41:42
  instead of getting frustrated with your partner, first, like, look at yourself and try to, like, observe yourself and then kind of try to start there instead of, like, the shifting the focus to the other person being the problem because it's actually yourself, like, you know,
• 41:57
  complaining or being frustrated or whatever it's that's actually an inner problem not a problem for the partner and so I think when you start like observing and then trying to understand why and the deeper problem or the thing that's causing you you know the feeling trying to figure out that first and then kind of bringing your partner along on the journey because you understand yourself better than I don't know your partner will understand yourself better and doing it for each other
• 42:25
  I mean, it just feels like now, if we look, even if we just compare a few months ago, life feels significantly lighter. There's been a sequence of things we've just done, which again, that specific topic will be probably in a different episode because that has been momentous, kind of like a shift. And I don't know.
• 42:50
  Oh, sweetie. She's in my lap for anyone who is not watching this on YouTube. That's our dog, sweetie, by the way, in case anyone's wondering. Yeah, I feel like what's so interesting about this whole thing is coming out the other side and just feeling a lot better. Feeling a lot less burnt out, feeling a lot less like, I don't know, just like not stretched and being a bit more...
• 43:17
  Yeah, lighter, lighter, happier, which, of course, then that feeds back into just being more productive, more like more energized by what you are doing because you've cut kind of all the all the things that are weighing you down.
• 43:36
  Anyway, I think this is going to be very interesting to see where this goes. But yeah, I'm already excited for the next few ones where you describe maybe more on the practical standpoint. What are some of the things you've been doing recently that have had crazy impact on your life? Yeah, I had actually an idea for anyone who's listening. If you, you know...
• 43:56
  have a busy brain, maybe you have ADHD, maybe you don't, but you're kind of like overwhelmed or burnt out or struggling to focus or whatever it might be. If you want to like email in a topic or email in some questions or email in some things that you want to know, I was thinking maybe that we could do a bit of a series based on our listeners.
• 44:19
  I mean, massively. I feel like that would be fun. Yeah, that's incredibly useful. And also because maybe you can give a bit more context. Now we are reaching out to brain doctors and, again, psychologists and all of this to also get to the cause of it instead of us just freestyling random thought or random strategy that we think. We just want to get the answer straight from the experts.
• 44:43
  And I think, again, the more questions the listeners have, the more we can ask to those experts and they can get a direct answer instead of having to wait. How many months have you had to wait to just see a psychologist even be diagnosed? Psychiatrist. Okay, psychiatrist. So anyway, whatever. Actually, I think the law just changed in New South Wales. GPs can diagnose. Anyway, that's another story. I reckon that's the episode. Yep. Sweetie wants to get out of here. That's it. She's done. That's the part. Thanks. Bye.
• 45:12
  Bye.
• 45:41
  And if you're a founder building an e-commerce brand, you can join our private network of entrepreneurs called Hype Club at femalestartupclub.com forward slash Hype Club. We have guests from the show joining us for intimate Ask Me Anythings, expert workshops, and a group of totally amazing, like-minded women building the future of D2C brands.
• 46:04
  As always, please do subscribe, rate and review the show, and post your favorite episodes to Instagram stories. I am beyond grateful when you do that.