Latest / Skin Anarchy / E.390: How Does Fragrance Impact Culture & Vice Versa w/ Veronique Gabai - Masterclass Series

Transcript

E.390: How Does Fragrance Impact Culture & Vice Versa w/ Veronique Gabai - Masterclass Series · Skin Anarchy

• 0:01
  SPEAKER_00: Level 4 has arrived.
• 0:03
  SPEAKER_00: The force is a hell yeah, only you can stand in their way and journey across the expansive open world of sanctuary.
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_00: Choose from five powerful classes that progress them to fit your playstyle adventure with your friends and up the four-player co-op with crossplay and cross-progression on all platforms.
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome to Hell Diablo 4.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_00: Available now, rated and premature.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_00: Tap the banner or visit this episode's page to learn more.
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome back, Veronique.
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_02: I am too.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_02: I'm so happy that we're doing this series together.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_02: It's so fun.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_01: It's so fun and it's so informative.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_01: I feel like, you know, I learned something so, you know, just unique every time we walk away from our recording.
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm I'm very excited.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_01: And for everyone listening, today's topic is really going to be about um the culture around perfumery and fragrance and scents and just in general.
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I think that's a really interesting topic too, right, Veronique, because of the holidays coming up and, you know, um really understanding how fragrances play a role in our culture and and who we are and how we live our lives, you know.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_01: So I would love to get started by really kind of understanding how you see the the role of culture in the fragrance um realm, Veronique.
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_01: Like what it, you know, your like, I guess, overview of what you believe it to be like, you know, the relevance.
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_02: You know, it's very interesting because uh first of all, you have to go back a little bit in time and understanding how fragrance came to play a role in the lives of people.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, so if you go really far away a few thousand years ago, and by the way, we have found uh traces of usage of perfume um more than 5,000 years ago in you know, in uh artifacts of you know first human uh societies.
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_02: So perfume has always been part of the life of people.
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_02: Originally, perfume was always used in two different ways, either as a connection to the spiritual, you know, in spiritual ceremonies, or as a ritual of seduction, you know.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_02: So it was always that, you know, the sacred and let's say the sexual, you know, it was always either or, which is very interesting.
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_02: Uh spiritual, you know, it's always been about body and mind, okay, and and soul.
• 3:13
  SPEAKER_02: So that's that's quite interesting.
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, but it has been used for thousands and thousands of years, so that transcends, if you will, the culture as we know it in our modern times.
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_02: Fragrance was always part of either the spiritual connection or the body and you know, adornment, which is very interesting.
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_02: No, absolutely.
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_02: And people, yeah, yeah, and people would use whatever they had.
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_02: So at the time, in the in the very beginning of usage of perfume, um, people would use um resins uh, you know, that smell a little bit like amber, or they would use uh, you know, a very fragrant flower that they would drop in oil, you know, or they would use um uh woods that they would burn and use as incense.
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_02: So you you have uh you know, people use nature to uh surround themselves with scent.
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_02: So that's the very beginning.
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_02: Then let's move on to a more modern world, let's say 15th century, 16th century, 17th century.
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_02: Now it's the beginning of, let's say, the um uh processing of perfume a little bit more like we know it today.
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_02: And with this modern processing, which you know, there was a little bit of enfleurage, which is basically using fat to gather the scent of flowers.
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_02: You know, we would put flowers on layers of fat between layers of fat, and then the fat would get the fragrance uh in itself, and then they would use the fat in one way, form, or another.
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_02: That was enfleurage, it was one of the first techniques to capture scent.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_02: And then the modern world started to understand how they could distillate uh flowers, and so distillation became a process that was used, you know, in the 17th century, 16th century, 17th century.
• 5:18
  SPEAKER_02: And with those um uh technological advances, uh obviously perfume became more prominent, at least in uh you know, uh the um let's say more affluent uh realm of societies.
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_02: And the the technology happened in Germany and in Italy, really, and that's where you know uh the court of Catherine de Medici started to use heavily fragrances, and what they would use is Eau de Cologne, because the technology was done in Germany in Cologne.
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_02: So um that's how Eau de Cologne began.
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_02: So when we say we use a Cologne, is because it was one of the first um you know um uh fragrance as we know it that was uh uh developed uh at that time.
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_02: So what happened there, and the reason I'm making this little bit of a uh uh uh you know uh journey into the past is to understand who used fragrance and how fragrance become part of the culture.
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_02: It has become part of the culture, more so in Latin Europe than anywhere else in the world.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_02: Because Catherine de Medici started to use heavily fragrances because she was very interested by the new technology around it, and so she started to use it heavily.
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_02: And with Catherine de Medici, you know, she was uh Italian that she uh lived in France, she was part of you know the royal family of France, and so suddenly uh Italy, France, and then also Spain started to use a lot of fragrances, you know, from the royal family to the court into the affluent uh you know society of those countries, and that's why Europe has always been way more in tune culturally with fragrance than any other areas of the world.
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, wow.
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_01: I love that.
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_01: Oh my gosh, that was amazing.
• 7:29
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I feel like you can teach a whole class about this, like do like a history talking.
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_01: No, that's so cool that you know how you describe that because it makes sense, you know.
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_01: I you're so right, you know.
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_01: I've I remember like even in my travels, you know, um scent is so embedded into the European um like just every day, you know, every single day, like this.
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_02: So in yeah, in Europe it's every day and mostly Latin Europe, okay, because of that, because it started there, and so it had way more time to infuse the society as any other region of the world, separately in uh the Middle East, okay, they also had their own tradition of scent, different than the Western one, but they had their own tradition of scent, and that's why in the Middle East, same thing, part of the culture, you use fragrance all the time, and you know, in very religious societies of the Middle East, you pray five times a day, and you have to wash before you pray.
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_02: So they wash five times a day, and so they needed fragrances that would withstand the washing five times a day, and that's why their scents is so much more powerful because it's part of the way you know scent was used, okay?
• 8:56
  SPEAKER_02: Um, now reversely in the US, US, you know, obviously, I'm not gonna go into Native uh Americans because I know nothing really of substance about it, so I'm not gonna talk about it, but the pilgrims then came into the US and basically pioneered uh the Western um world in the US, the pilgrims were Puritans, okay, at the beginning.
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_02: Scent was not good, scent was not acceptable.
• 9:31
  SPEAKER_02: Scent was like, you know, uh an expression of futility and uh you know not good.
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_02: What was good was to be clean, what was good was to take care of oneself, what was good was to present a proper aspect of yourself, and so scent was not necessarily something that the puritanical society of the US at the beginning of the uh you know development of the US accepted.
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_02: And for the longest time, until um the uh Second World War, scent was not really something that uh the Americans would use.
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_02: Not really.
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_02: They would have some, but it was not that much.
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_02: Only a few people would buy scent, you know, it was very expensive, it was it was really considered luxury or frivolous by most people.
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_02: Then the GI brought back from Europe all of those fabulous scents that existed for so many years, uh, you know, in um in Europe, and they brought them back with them.
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_02: And since suddenly fragrance became a little bit more accepted in the US or coveted in the US.
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_02: And then you had also the influence of more Hispanic immigration into the US, and the Hispanic always had a very strong tradition of scent because they came from Europe.
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_02: So suddenly the US was infused with more acceptance of a perfume as something more, um, I would say, um, you know, more usual.
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, but I mean, even then though, I find it to be so interesting, everything that you you just said, because in the US, perfumer, perfumery, and especially like, you know, just perfumes that are brought from Europe um have been coveted in a totally different way.
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's like I feel like you're it the way you've explained is so, so, you know, interesting psychologically when I look at it, because you know a lot of my friends, colleagues, you know, just fast-forwarding to today, and even when I look at it as, you know, the culture of scent in the US, you know, as I was growing up, as I see it now, it's very like the way that people like covet their fragrances, the way they um respond to a fragrance that comes from France versus something that was made in Wisconsin.
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 12:03
  SPEAKER_01: Like here, like it's totally different.
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_01: It's this idea of like, I think people have this mentality of just if it's from Europe, the fragrance is just better, period.
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_02: You know, there's like yeah, and I and and you have a good point here, is because there's a tradition in Europe.
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, there's a tradition in France of the craft of perfumery.
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, the bulk of perfumery in the 17th uh century on words was really based out of grass in France.
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_02: So uh France really was the center of the craft for perfumery for a very, very, very long time.
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_02: And by being at the center of the craft, obviously the artisans that were creating the craft became more and more sophisticated, became more and more knowledgeable.
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_02: They truly had a craft.
• 12:57
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I would imagine that if you were to say, um, you know, uh cars, people don't think about France.
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_02: You know, France has a lot of cars, but it's not really their faute.
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_02: You know, you're gonna think Germany, you're gonna think America, you're not necessarily gonna think, or you're gonna think Japan, you're not necessarily gonna think about France.
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_02: The place where craft is developed and perfected becomes the place of reference.
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and today it doesn't mean that America doesn't do beautiful scent, but it has not been, if you will, the place of reference.
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_02: And so um um, you know, the the uh art and craft of perfumery has been established mostly in France, a little bit in Italy, a little bit in Spain, but mostly in France.
• 13:47
  SPEAKER_02: And that's why France has become the place of reference.
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_01: I love that.
• 13:51
  SPEAKER_01: No, I I love that.
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_01: That makes so much sense.
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, I actually, you know, this makes me think a lot about, you know, we're we're talking about culture and the cultural aspects of fragrance, and it makes me think of how people, you know, the comfort level people feel with scent and fragrance.
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I think that um here in the West we see such a such a difference, you know, in the behavioral aspect because people are just like you explained so wonderfully, it's it's a new idea, you know, to have a scent.
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I can't tell you, Bernie, how many male colleagues I have that to this day they will not wear any kind of fragrance or scent on them.
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_01: Like they don't believe in cologne, they don't you just don't do it.
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_01: And I ask them, I'm like, well, why not?
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's such a uh I feel like it's just part of your day.
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_01: Like, you know, you you just when you're getting ready in the morning, but they're like, no, we don't feel like that.
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_01: You know, they don't look at it that way at all.
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_01: But then I have met so many, you know, like for example, if I'm working with a doctor that is from another, you know, culture, like he's you know, an immigrated here, he'll be wearing cologne.
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, well, he he's clearly doing it.
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_01: So what's wrong with you know doing it here if you grew up in the US?
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_01: So that's you know you definitely see these, you know, these nuances and these changes, um, even here, you know, a day to day in your work life.
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_02: Like you see that it is it is linked to what you have been taught, it is linked to what you have seen in your environment as a kid, it is linked to basically the collective culture of your environment.
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_02: And if you're European, if you're uh from the Middle East, if you are Indian, you're gonna use a lot of fragrance.
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_02: That's part of your habits, that's part of your upbringing.
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_02: Um, if you were born in the US, probably less so, you know.
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and but that's changing, which is very interesting.
• 15:49
  SPEAKER_02: I think the pandemic, the COVID pandemic, has truly created a shift in the way that the Americans are looking at scent and using Scent.
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, you know, in the in the US right now, in the last couple of years, we had phenomenal growth of the fragrance category in the US.
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_02: That is not explained by just newness or, you know, it is truly cannot be explained but by the seismic shift in consumption.
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_02: And I think what has happened is that during the pandemic, um, the American uh public, the American people have realized what the European people have realized long time ago, or other cultures have lived with for many, many centuries, is that fragrance is part of your daily routine because it makes you feel good.
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, in Europe or in Middle East or in uh India, people use scent not for the outside world, they use scent for themselves because they love uh what scent does to them.
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_02: And so when you love something for yourself, you're gonna be inclined to use it and use it and use it and use it every day.
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_02: In the US, because of the culture that came from the pure ethnic world of the US for ages, you know, Scent was little by little infused into daily life, but more as a special occasion.
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_02: Okay you're wearing a scent because you have an interview, you're wearing a scent because you have a date.
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_02: But during the pandemic, where we had so little uh to our, you know, to our of access, people were using more scent because scent was an escape.
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_02: Scent would be a nice little pygmy up.
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_02: And then I think there was a shift in the perception of scent in the US into something that people realize they can do for themselves.
• 17:53
  SPEAKER_02: And as you start thinking of Scent for oneself, then you start buying it for you and use it every day.
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_02: And that's where we see that extraordinary growth in the US market.
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that makes so much sense.
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_01: I never really uh put that together.
• 18:09
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you're so right because yeah, fragrance is definitely boomed.
• 18:13
  SPEAKER_01: You know, now I'm seeing so many people talk, not only talking about it, but they're discussing, you know, for example, an article I saw today, right before we connected, Vernick, it was about how, you know, the next step in fragrance and scent might be people incorporating it into their home and the architecture of their home.
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm sitting here thinking, you know, coming from a completely different, you know, culture, I was raised in Indian culture.
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, well, we've been doing that.
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_01: Like, you know, the like the concept of incense, you know, like the concept of of these these wonderful oils that, you know, I always like saw my mother utilize in some way that was very effortless in a way, right?
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_01: It was not this thing that we made a fuss about.
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_01: We just did it.
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_01: And it was part of the culture, like you explained, it was part of the the ritualistic nature of what it feels like to live, you know, to every day live a fulfilled day, you know, it was part of your day.
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_01: It's not something that stood out, it's not something that you explained to anybody.
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_01: It was just there, um, very much ingrained in her in her daily habits.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_01: So I think that's a really, really interesting um, you know, angle that you you introduce us to because yeah, it's definitely booming.
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_01: You know, the US markets are booming right now for fragrance, but at the same time, I think people are re they're you know, I think rediscovering what so many cultures have known for so long, which is um exactly what you said, you know, this lifestyle, this um elevated lifestyle that occurs, you know, on a daily basis.
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_01: Um it's very, very meaningful and it's it's really worth um investing in.
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_01: And I think people are definitely, definitely recognizing that.
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_01: You know, no, no, for sure.
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_02: And and you know, also the other thing that is quite interesting, even if you don't relate to the origin of usage of scent, is how people perceive scent, you know, and what they like, what they don't like, because obviously scent is very personal, and we've discussed this.
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_02: It's really linked to your um reptilian brain and your limbic system.
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_02: So it's really about your instinct and your emotions and your memories, and so it's very, very personal.
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, but at the same time, there's uh very strong influences uh from your environment, your cultural environment.
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_02: And uh there are um collective memory that play a role.
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_02: There's a collective culture that plays a role in what you're gonna like in scent and what you are not gonna like in scent.
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_02: You know, you not everybody likes the same thing around the world, and that's truly related to the culture and the environment in which you live.
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_01: No, that's so true.
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_01: And it's it's very interesting, you know, just um watching people as they incorporate the fragrance as well, right?
• 21:05
  SPEAKER_01: It's like, you know, the way that a person does it, you know, in the like you said, like in the Middle East versus here is so different.
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_01: And I think, you know, for me, the first, you know, introduction to this in the Western world was I I kid you not, I'd gone to this museum, like an exhibit on Cleopatra was playing, right?
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_01: And at the local museum.
• 21:25
  SPEAKER_01: And uh it was a history museum.
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_01: And I went to that, and one of the things that they really highlighted in that specific exhibit was her love of fragrance.
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_01: And um, you know, little kids could buy little souvenirs afterwards.
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_01: And I think I remember, you know, one of the souvenirs was this beautiful glass vial with like, you know, a glass um rod that goes into it, you know, like how they used to do fragrance um with the oils back in the day, right?
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_01: And you put the little bit.
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_01: And so when I saw that, I mean, this was many years ago, but when I saw that, I was like, you know, look at how deep.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: Deeply ingrained this has been, you know, in the different cultures.
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_01: And look at how it's such a nonchalant thing to them.
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_01: But for us, we look at these things, oh my gosh, that's so amazing.
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_01: You know, that's so intriguing.
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_01: It's so mystical.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but you know, they were fragrance has always been used as a tool in many cultures, you know, it's it's it's a way to accomplish something else, like you said, you know, whether that's psychological or even something like seduction, you know, Cleopatra was known for mixing, you know, scents and mixing different oils and stuff.
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_01: And now, like, you know, we look at the Western world in fragrance and we see people finally talking about layering your perfumes, you know, layering them and making the perfect scent for you.
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_01: But this concept, again, has been around for many, many centuries.
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, when you say it's a tool, yes, it's a tool for self-expression, it gives you the courage of being who you are.
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, it's a tool for seduction, for sure, because you feel more confident when you have a perfume on.
• 23:02
  SPEAKER_02: It's not going to transform you into Marilyn Monroe if you're not Mary Monroe, but it's going to give you the confidence to exude who you are.
• 23:10
  SPEAKER_02: And if you're confident, you're sexy.
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_02: Um it's it's also a tool for escape.
• 23:17
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, you feel a little down, you put a little perfume, you escape somewhere else.
• 23:21
  SPEAKER_02: So it's a wonderful thing to use, but it's very interesting to me, you know, as I uh develop perfume and and as you know, along my career I had to manage major businesses all around the world, is to see how people react to different types of scent.
• 23:41
  SPEAKER_02: Now the the frontiers are a little bit more blurred because people travel a lot and there's many different types of influences that we received, but there's there's still you know some very strong um collective uh taste, collective memory, and collective culture of scent.
• 24:01
  SPEAKER_02: Um, you know, for example, uh, you know, the in in France, in by and large, people really love more sensual, more woody, more embery scent.
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, you go into the Middle East, you really go far into that embery, woody, smoky feel.
• 24:21
  SPEAKER_02: Um, you go to the US, we're still a country that likes more floral, fresher scent, even though the woody and darker scent are coming to play.
• 24:33
  SPEAKER_02: You go to Asia, completely different.
• 24:36
  SPEAKER_02: Completely different.
• 24:37
  SPEAKER_02: If ever they wear a fragrance, it will be more luminous, more light, more fresh.
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_02: So there's a very strong distinction in terms of taste, and that really is about the environment in which you live, the temperature in which you live, the humidity in which you live, and also the culture that you have with scent.
• 24:57
  SPEAKER_02: We don't even use the same words to describe why we like a fragrance or or another.
• 25:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 25:05
  SPEAKER_01: No, I would love for you to actually give us an example of that, the about the word and the verbiage, uh, Veronique, because I think that's really important.
• 25:13
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, especially now, because you know, I thought of one thing when you were explaining what you just did was that right now in the US, I'm seeing that fragrance is now being tied to this new culture, quote unquote, which we now are calling the self-care ritual, you know, right, of our day.
• 25:31
  SPEAKER_01: And so people are now gravitating towards this, which is a wonderful thing, don't get me wrong, but it's like we keep trying to give reasons why we are using fragrance.
• 25:42
  SPEAKER_01: And I just don't know why we do that, because it's like you don't need to explain why, you know, you just do it, it's just part of your day, you know.
• 25:50
  SPEAKER_02: It's like for you, but I think that for a country that has never looked at scent as a daily routine, now that you feel like you want it to happen, you have to rationalize it.
• 26:04
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 26:06
  SPEAKER_02: Again, fragrance is is linked to your instinct and your emotions, okay.
• 26:11
  SPEAKER_02: So you don't even know why you're liking a fragrance or you don't like a fragrance, you don't know how to express it.
• 26:17
  SPEAKER_02: You can just say I like it, I don't like it.
• 26:19
  SPEAKER_02: Really, at the end of the day, that's what that's what it is, because it's instinctive.
• 26:23
  SPEAKER_02: And and so the the what happens is that we're highly cortex-driven type of people, right?
• 26:31
  SPEAKER_02: Our brain has developed so much in the cortex and so little in the instinctive or the emotional or the intuitive, that we we are animals that are trying desperately to rationalize everything we do.
• 26:44
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and and that's why, you know, instead of saying, Oh, I love it, and that's why I'm using it, we're gonna try to explain what has changed in our lives in a rational fashion.
• 26:55
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, that's what it is.
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_02: We're scent, that's what it is.
• 26:58
  SPEAKER_02: It might not be with other things, but we're scent clearly that's what it is.
• 27:02
  SPEAKER_02: Now, to give you an example, which is very interesting, you know, again, we have a hard time expressing why we love a perfume because we don't have the words, you know, to describe all faction.
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, so we usually borrow from music or from colors or whatever.
• 27:19
  SPEAKER_02: And and when we like something, we're gonna tend to rationalize why we love it instead of just saying I love it.
• 27:29
  SPEAKER_02: And so it's so it's very interesting because when I was again managing those uh mega businesses around the world, it was very interesting to me because if we we had like one fragrance, let's say, and we would want to launch it on a global basis, and you know, so we would talk to people around the world, and what we found out is that the words that are used to say why you like a perfume change from a place to another, and it's very closely related to the culture of that country and to what is deemed appropriate in the culture of that country.
• 28:11
  SPEAKER_02: So let's take fragrance A.
• 28:13
  SPEAKER_02: It's the same fragrance.
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_02: We're gonna test it in France, we're gonna test it in Germany, we're gonna test it in um the US.
• 28:20
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, same fragrance, same exact fragrance, nothing changes.
• 28:24
  SPEAKER_02: The French lady who's gonna like fragrance A is gonna say, I like it because it is sensual.
• 28:32
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, yeah.
• 28:34
  SPEAKER_02: The American lady that's gonna like fragrance A is gonna say, I love fragrance A because it is fresh and clean.
• 28:42
  SPEAKER_02: The German lady who likes fragrance A, she's gonna say, I love fragrance A because it is sporty and elegant.
• 28:51
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's the same fragrance, it is described in three different ways in three different cultures, because people use the word that is deemed appropriate in their culture to explain why they like a perfume.
• 29:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, no, that's such such a brilliant way to explain it.
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, you're so right.
• 29:13
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean, I think that people they just they look for, you know, and it's interesting the words they use too, you know.
• 29:21
  SPEAKER_01: Like, for example, like um, you know, let's take one of yours.
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I love your love your line, you know, I'm obsessed with it.
• 29:28
  SPEAKER_01: Every day your line is an everyday ritual for me, by the way.
• 29:32
  SPEAKER_01: I'm just letting everyone know.
• 29:34
  SPEAKER_01: On my second bottle already of the heart fragrance from the room, just letting everybody know.
• 29:42
  SPEAKER_01: Obsessed, I'm obsessed.
• 29:43
  SPEAKER_01: But you know, I I really I think it's so cool to think about what you just said because even the words they're using, like, oh, it feels very like, you know, like luxury or like, you know, those kind of words still come up in some cult, you know, in some places.
• 29:57
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm just like, I don't think that's an explanation, you know, of like how this feels, but it's it's still it's still interesting to see that.
• 30:05
  SPEAKER_01: And you're so, so correct when you say that, you know, it is so much about what is acceptable in a culture.
• 30:11
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, you know, I know that, for example, you know, just to add on to what you were describing, Eastern cultures and Middle Eastern cultures are very conservative.
• 30:19
  SPEAKER_01: So they're not going to talk about sensuality, sexuality, um, you know, this makes me feel more, you know, sensual or attractive.
• 30:27
  SPEAKER_01: They're not going to say those things because, you know, let's be honest, their culture doesn't allow for it, you know.
• 30:32
  SPEAKER_01: Um, it's just that I think it's interesting to watch us in the US come to our own understanding and our own way of expressing how we feel.
• 30:42
  SPEAKER_01: And so, you know, it's it's a really, really, I think, new air, like new area of discussion, you know, in terms of really evaluating culture as a part of the perfume um, you know, making and and brainstorming process, right?
• 30:59
  SPEAKER_01: Like it must be, it must be something you you you know uh incorporate in your uh system when you're thinking of fragrance, isn't that?
• 31:09
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 31:09
  SPEAKER_02: So when when I'm developing fragrance because of the bias of culture, if you will, yeah what I try to do when I have people smell my fragrances is let them express you know the words that they want to use, but what I'm very attentive to is the body language, um, because that doesn't lie.
• 31:30
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 31:31
  SPEAKER_02: And uh and you can see if a person loves a fragrance or not through the way that the body starts to um react.
• 31:41
  SPEAKER_02: And it's it's quite fascinating actually.
• 31:44
  SPEAKER_02: Um the other thing that I would say is that you know, you kind enough to mention uh heart in my aroma line, which really is slightly different than traditional perfumery, because in aroma we not only use the principle of perfumery, but we also mainly use the principle of aromatherapy.
• 32:05
  SPEAKER_02: So we cross over aromatherapy and perfumery to give tangible benefits to people.
• 32:12
  SPEAKER_02: So what I wanted to do with aroma is go beyond the words that people would say to express what the fragrance does for them, because really with aroma, we have tangible benefits that happen.
• 32:25
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but we measured them uh through a neuroscientific study.
• 32:30
  SPEAKER_02: Uh so we we don't ask people to necessarily say the words, but we measure what happened in their brain when they smell and wear the fragrance, which again, that doesn't lie.
• 32:41
  SPEAKER_02: So um that's very interesting because you have to go beyond the words one way or another uh to really understand how a person appreciates the fragrance.
• 32:51
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, no, absolutely.
• 32:53
  SPEAKER_01: And and I definitely see that, you know, with aroma, I I I definitely see the intentional, you know, aspect of what you just said, because I feel that, you know, I'm gonna be one of those people that says this is like life-changing for me, because it is, it's it's become part of my ritual, you know.
• 33:11
  SPEAKER_01: So I definitely see that there is um a much more intentional tie to the neurocognitive part of things, you know, with the aroma line, because you really do get into a mindset when you're using any of the three fragrances.
• 33:26
  SPEAKER_01: And I and I really, really love the whole line, you know, but in general, generally speaking, it's like, you know, I know in my mind, like, you know, Veronique Gabai fragrances has become part of my ritual, you know, it's part of my everyday.
• 33:40
  SPEAKER_01: And so lucky.
• 33:44
  SPEAKER_01: I really mean, I mean it, and it's truly not flattery.
• 33:48
  SPEAKER_01: It's more of like a, you know, I'm trying to show people that it's very easy if you find the right, like, you know, it's like a switch that turns on, right?
• 33:57
  SPEAKER_01: With fragrance, Monique.
• 33:58
  SPEAKER_01: It's like, oh, exactly what you said.
• 34:00
  SPEAKER_01: It's either works or it doesn't, yes or no, you know?
• 34:03
  SPEAKER_01: And with your line, for me as a person here, personally speaking, it really is a yes.
• 34:08
  SPEAKER_01: And so when I use it, it's natural, it comes without thinking.
• 34:12
  SPEAKER_01: It doesn't involve me rationalizing.
• 34:15
  SPEAKER_01: It's like this miss, this smells good.
• 34:17
  SPEAKER_01: This makes me feel good.
• 34:19
  SPEAKER_01: I'm going to do it, you know.
• 34:21
  SPEAKER_01: So that whole, you know, uh, what do you call it?
• 34:24
  SPEAKER_01: That whole thought process to action thing that's occurring is almost, you know, subconscious at that point.
• 34:32
  SPEAKER_01: Because, like you said, you know, fragrance is tied to so much more than what we can express.
• 34:37
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's so linked to things like habit formation and you know, all of these different words we can use, you know, and I can talk to you about this all day, but but it really does become part of your ritual, you're part of your life.
• 34:49
  SPEAKER_01: And that's where the culture is so intriguing, is that you know, yeah.
• 34:54
  SPEAKER_02: You and you know, with perfumes, you really it's really about you know what it triggers in terms of your emotional response.
• 35:03
  SPEAKER_02: With aroma, it goes beyond the emotions, and that's why it's so interesting.
• 35:07
  SPEAKER_02: Because the formulas have been designed to really help you, literally help you mentally and physiologically.
• 35:16
  SPEAKER_02: When you smell aroma, there's an immediate response of feeling better because the fragrance makes you feel better.
• 35:23
  SPEAKER_02: And so, to me, once you get used to wearing aroma, it's very hard not to use them because you feel the difference.
• 35:32
  SPEAKER_01: It's true.
• 35:32
  SPEAKER_01: No, it's so true.
• 35:34
  SPEAKER_01: But I'm laughing because I'm like, yep.
• 35:36
  SPEAKER_02: It's like washing your teeth, you know, it's like, okay, I wash my teeth, I feel clean.
• 35:41
  SPEAKER_02: If I don't wash my teeth, I don't like it.
• 35:43
  SPEAKER_02: I need to go and wash my teeth.
• 35:45
  SPEAKER_02: And I think it's stupid to say that, but with aroma, the minute you stop using it, you feel the difference.
• 35:50
  SPEAKER_02: So you want to use it every day.
• 35:52
  SPEAKER_02: You know, it's a it's a very different thing.
• 35:54
  SPEAKER_02: With my line of perfumes, you know, the perfumes were not designed like Aroma were, but I think my line of perfume really is about this moment of escape.
• 36:04
  SPEAKER_02: So it's a moment that gives you joy.
• 36:07
  SPEAKER_02: Um, it with Aroma, it's it's almost like something you need to do uh every day because um because you feel better for sure.
• 36:17
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, no, absolutely.
• 36:18
  SPEAKER_01: I completely, completely agree with you.
• 36:20
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, and you know, going to your line of perfumes, like I like alternate, you know what I mean?
• 36:25
  SPEAKER_01: But it's like I'm still using the the whole line, but it's like I'm I'm alternating, like, you know, one day I'll use one scent, another day, another scent.
• 36:34
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, but with aroma, it's like, no, this is my go-to.
• 36:37
  SPEAKER_01: Like I immediately grab for it, you know, if I'm walking out the door, if I'm about to go somewhere, or if I'm even just sitting around and I just need a refresher, you know, it does, it's so ingrained in my day-to-day that I don't even think about it anymore.
• 36:49
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's like I love it.
• 36:52
  SPEAKER_01: No, it's it's it's just, I mean, I think that's that's a testament to your your craftsmanship and your your true, you know, just uh mastery of your craft because it's it's really about creating things that are like a no-brainer, you know what I mean?
• 37:08
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's what really molds culture, if I'm honest.
• 37:11
  SPEAKER_01: You know, um, I've seen it growing up here, you know, the things that have created I consider to be part of the culture, you know, as uh both Indian American and person brought, you know, that was grown up here is things that just make me feel good, you know what I mean?
• 37:26
  SPEAKER_01: And it and it's like the more and more you discover them, more the more you realize what your own personal culture is.
• 37:32
  SPEAKER_01: And this idea of personalization of culture, I think, is now finally coming to the the top of the conversation, you know what I mean?
• 37:40
  SPEAKER_01: Because like you said, COVID happened, you know, we we sat alone with ourselves, we sat alone with our minds, and it made us really think about what do I want?
• 37:48
  SPEAKER_01: You know, what do I care about?
• 37:50
  SPEAKER_01: And and how do I, what makes me feel good?
• 37:53
  SPEAKER_01: And those things I think are all definitely um things that get, you know, they get accelerated if you have a line like that you really like, you know.
• 38:03
  SPEAKER_01: So I really urge everybody, yeah, like if you like a perfume and you haven't been using it as much, start using it more because it's going to make you start thinking more about what do I like?
• 38:14
  SPEAKER_01: You know, what are my preferences?
• 38:15
  SPEAKER_02: Also, Ekta, what has happened during the pandemic, and that I think is universal, is the need to connect with nature.
• 38:24
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I think that when you are going through very challenging times, you need to ground yourself so that you can sustain the chaos around you.
• 38:38
  SPEAKER_02: And uh the uh the way that you ground yourself is either because you're a very aware person and you feel you know a very deep connection to your own self, but for most people is also connecting to nature because nature gives you that strength, that inner strength.
• 38:57
  SPEAKER_02: And and probably uh one of the things that has happened during COVID, intuitively, people have connected more with nature, uh, and they want to be more outdoors, and they want to have a garden, and they want to have a little rooftop terrace where they can plant a couple of herbs and tomatoes, and you know, whatever expression it is, that connection to nature becomes fundamental for people, and that is across the globe.
• 39:25
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that what will happen also with perfumes is that that connection to nature probably, and that's my you know, that's me saying it, uh will become more prominent.
• 39:39
  SPEAKER_02: Um I think it will become more important for people.
• 39:42
  SPEAKER_02: And so, you know, my line has always been very anchored in culture, very rooted in nature.
• 39:49
  SPEAKER_02: And um uh this rooting in nature is part of the craft that that I love.
• 39:56
  SPEAKER_02: And so all of my perfumes are highly concentrated in natural ingredients and aroma, as you know, is 100% natural.
• 40:04
  SPEAKER_02: So um this connection to nature through scent, I think is very fundamental.
• 40:09
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely, yeah.
• 40:10
  SPEAKER_01: That's that's a brilliant point, actually.
• 40:12
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I I don't think we really even acknowledge it, you know, in our day-to-day is how much you're right, we're so connected to nature.
• 40:19
  SPEAKER_01: And if you're inside for too long, I mean, you crave smelling the trees and the grass and the, you know, just you want to be in a place that reminds you from a fragrance standpoint of nature.
• 40:30
  SPEAKER_01: And that really does drive what we go after when it comes to things we can buy that are synthetically creating that experience for us, you know.
• 40:37
  SPEAKER_01: So I think that's that's that's a brilliant point.
• 40:40
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I think for me, Ronnie, the biggest question I have for you, especially when it comes to the culture of fragrance, is how does how is it, you know, when you when you've crafted something that you really believe in, right?
• 40:53
  SPEAKER_01: And you've you pretty much have feel like this this fragrance is done, you know, it's complete.
• 40:58
  SPEAKER_01: It's the way I want it to be, it's all that.
• 41:00
  SPEAKER_01: And then someone has a response that's I don't know, like maybe on the more cultural, like how do you respond to those kind of things?
• 41:08
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I'm just curious from your perspective as an expert in perfumery, you know, how does culture play a role for you, you know, on a day-to-day as you're crafting, as you're listening to your customers, give you feedback, you know, and and all that?
• 41:21
  SPEAKER_01: How does that work for you?
• 41:23
  SPEAKER_02: Well, I think, you know, listen, you're a human being, so you're gonna put into the things you do what you love, what you like, what is important to you.
• 41:35
  SPEAKER_02: But when um you try to do something, um, you know, either you stay in your bubble and that's your bubble, and it's fine, and that's what you represent, and that's what you give to the world.
• 41:47
  SPEAKER_02: Um, at the same time, my bubble, if you will, has always been one of incredible curiosity as regard to other cultures.
• 41:57
  SPEAKER_02: At a very young age, I traveled the entire world because I wanted to go towards people I didn't know nothing about.
• 42:06
  SPEAKER_02: I wanted to understand other cultures, I wanted to see how other people live, what other people love.
• 42:12
  SPEAKER_02: And so my bubble, if you will, is obviously heavily inspired by the Mediterranean where I was born, heavily inspired by the south of France where I lived as a young adult.
• 42:26
  SPEAKER_02: So that's my bubble.
• 42:27
  SPEAKER_02: But this bubble has always been infused with the culture of other regions.
• 42:33
  SPEAKER_02: You know, as a kid in the south of France, you know, um, summers were filled with people that would come from all over the world.
• 42:40
  SPEAKER_02: And as a kid, I was listening to so many different languages.
• 42:44
  SPEAKER_02: I wanted to travel the world, I wanted to know more.
• 42:47
  SPEAKER_02: So that sense of curiosity has always been part of what I do.
• 42:52
  SPEAKER_02: So I always created a bridge between what I am, which is I am deeply Mediterranean.
• 42:59
  SPEAKER_02: Before I'm French, I'm Mediterranean, and a bridge towards, you know, other cultures.
• 43:04
  SPEAKER_02: So infusing my world with other cultures.
• 43:08
  SPEAKER_02: And um, so my bubble, if you will, is one of multiple influences.
• 43:14
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, and multicultural.
• 43:16
  SPEAKER_01: I love that.
• 43:17
  SPEAKER_01: I really love that you, you know, that you have that mindset because I kid you not, I think, you know, people really underestimate the value of when you go and try like whether it's through travels or whether it's through experiences, even especially, you know, in your younger years, you take parts of people's culture and you make it a part of your own.
• 43:36
  SPEAKER_01: And that's a beautiful thing.
• 43:37
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's so unique and probably why I am obsessed with everything you create, because I mean it it really comes through that you understand.
• 43:47
  SPEAKER_01: And and I think that um, you know, that connection that you create for your consumers, you know, when we're using your fragrances, it's it's like nothing else I've ever experienced.
• 43:56
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I've I've loved fragrance my whole life, you know, and I Like we talked about in this episode, you know, it's been in my culture at home.
• 44:04
  SPEAKER_01: I've seen my mother, but like when for me, I really mean it when I say, Well, your your perfumes are so unique to me compared to everything else I've used because it's like I can't go a day without having those scents on me.
• 44:17
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 44:18
  SPEAKER_01: It's I've never been like that.
• 44:19
  SPEAKER_02: That's so nice, Ecta.
• 44:21
  SPEAKER_02: But you know, it's there's this beautiful tradition in every culture.
• 44:25
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I think that the the French tradition of perfumery is really this beautiful uh concoction, if you will, that you put on yourself.
• 44:34
  SPEAKER_02: But there's the bath tradition, both on the other side of the Mediterranean or in Asia.
• 44:41
  SPEAKER_02: It's an amazing uh culture of scent, you know, it that goes through water more so than traditional uh perfume making.
• 44:50
  SPEAKER_02: You have the fabulous tradition of uh smoke in Japan.
• 44:54
  SPEAKER_02: That's how scent is used is through the Kodo ceremony, which is burning of woods.
• 45:00
  SPEAKER_02: You have that amazing tradition that you have in India of the Atars, where it's a concoction of woods and flowers all the time, you know, different ways to extract the scent.
• 45:12
  SPEAKER_02: There's a fabulous tradition of you know, um uh cleanliness in some areas of the world where suddenly being super fresh and clean becomes a part of what smells good.
• 45:25
  SPEAKER_02: So there's a lot of different things.
• 45:27
  SPEAKER_02: So there's the uh the splash in um in Spain where or in Italy, where uh scent is done with a very light fragrance that you do in the beginning of the day.
• 45:39
  SPEAKER_02: There's many different ways to appreciate scent and and there's something very beautiful about it.
• 45:45
  SPEAKER_02: And and if we can uh build something around it that um create a ritual every day, I think it's fantastic.
• 45:53
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely, and and beautifully said, you know, I think that's definitely something to take away from this conversation for everyone tuning in, is just you know, really rethink what we understand about culture and and how we see fragrance throughout the day.
• 46:07
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's it's very interesting, Mernik, what you said about, you know, um the different ways that people utilize it throughout the world, because you're absolutely right.
• 46:17
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's um it's when we talk about culture and it being ingrained in the culture, it's like, you know, the home smells like it, their office smells like it, you know, something in their whole life, like in their whole day, wherever they go, like something reminds them of the fragrances that play such a key role in their culture.
• 46:37
  SPEAKER_01: And I think this is, you know, it's there worldwide.
• 46:39
  SPEAKER_01: And I it's really time for I think American consumers to figure out what that is for us.
• 46:44
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I mean, I'll I'll tell you off the bat, you know, for example, this time of year, right?
• 46:48
  SPEAKER_01: We associate it with what, you know, comfortable things.
• 46:52
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 46:52
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, I think now I'm starting to see more like coffee fragrances come out.
• 46:57
  SPEAKER_01: I've never seen them before, you know, on my Instagram.
• 47:00
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, where is this idea of coffee fragrance coming from?
• 47:03
  SPEAKER_01: You know, and and so I realized that, oh, it's that time of year, and maybe part of the American culture is that we like coffee so much.
• 47:11
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, we want to, you know, have a perfume that smells like it, you know, that that's fine.
• 47:15
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it there's nothing wrong with that.
• 47:17
  SPEAKER_02: No, nothing wrong with it.
• 47:19
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but it's just at the end of the day, whatever you do with scent, scent is making you feel better, um, you know, making you feel good, or in the case of aroma, truly tangibly making you feel better.
• 47:31
  SPEAKER_02: And so um, you know, whatever you do, it's it's fine, but but it's um at the end of the day, perfume is not gonna cure cancer, perfume is not gonna solve the problems of the world, but perfumes gives you a smile, gives you a moment of joy, gives you a moment of peace, and so a moment of escape.
• 47:51
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that it helps with feeling uh good uh during the day and and taking the day in a in a more positive approach.
• 48:00
  SPEAKER_01: Well, it may inspire you to cure cancer, you know.
• 48:04
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe maybe you know, I mean you never know.
• 48:07
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I I love it though.
• 48:09
  SPEAKER_01: I I love the whole thing.
• 48:10
  SPEAKER_02: But it does help, you know, even when people are sick, having that we we know that scent, a good scent can can help, you know, give a more positive out outlook to people and they they are um you know stronger in in dealing with difficult um situations.
• 48:28
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, absolutely.
• 48:29
  SPEAKER_01: No, I I really, really I think that you know there's a lot of power behind scent.
• 48:34
  SPEAKER_01: And I definitely am on board with the especially the neurological, you know, findings and the data, because you know, for I was really thinking about this um throughout the conversation, Veronique, was when you had mentioned the you know, America and the way everything began here, you know, with the way that people were.
• 48:50
  SPEAKER_01: And then I started thinking about, you know, well, America, you know, being such a young country, we were also very heavy into like, for example, the men would go out into coal mines and you know, taking a shower at the end of your day or a bath was a part of that because the work that was being done was so nitty-gritty, it was so like you know, getting down and and they would physically get dirty.
• 49:13
  SPEAKER_01: So maybe this I this obsession with fresh and you know, just citrusy and fresh and just it's a renewal, you know.
• 49:21
  SPEAKER_01: And I think we look at we look at it like renewal in the West or not in the West, but especially in America, when we have this fresh scent that usually comes after a shower or it comes after a bathing ritual.
• 49:34
  SPEAKER_01: And it, you know, that is so interesting to me because it makes me think of like, you know, Roman times, right?
• 49:40
  SPEAKER_01: Like Roman bathhouses and stuff.
• 49:42
  SPEAKER_01: Like, you know, you think about all of the all of the culture that's led to the feeling you get after you take a bath.
• 49:50
  SPEAKER_01: That all ties in, you know, it all comes back um, you know, forward.
• 49:55
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's like a constant cycle.
• 49:56
  SPEAKER_01: And I and I really find it to be very intriguing um that we are, you know, a society that reflects that we like to be clean, we like to shower a lot, you know, we like to we like to have those fresh citrusy um scents all around us, though.
• 50:09
  SPEAKER_02: And thank God it's a much better way to be, quite frankly.
• 50:15
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I know some places that could use a lesson from that.
• 50:18
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I know for sure.
• 50:20
  SPEAKER_02: Uh um, but but yes, it's uh it's uh it's an interesting play.
• 50:25
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, uh uh you look the scent of comfort also, you know, in in America.
• 50:31
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, you talked about coffee.
• 50:33
  SPEAKER_02: I think the apple pie is the ultimate scent of comfort uh for um for America.
• 50:39
  SPEAKER_02: And you know what?
• 50:40
  SPEAKER_02: It doesn't smell of apple, it smells of cinnamon.
• 50:43
  SPEAKER_02: So for people, the apple pie smell in America is not apple, it's cinnamon.
• 50:48
  SPEAKER_02: And it's very interesting because um that's really an American thing.
• 50:53
  SPEAKER_02: And uh and so culture plays in many different ways, and and it's a it's a fascinating um topic to to look into and to understand a culture, you have to understand the scent.
• 51:07
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely, couldn't agree more.
• 51:08
  SPEAKER_01: And I hope that everyone tuning in, you guys have learned as much as I have, which I always do with Veronique.
• 51:15
  SPEAKER_01: So I really hope you enjoyed this episode.
• 51:17
  SPEAKER_01: I I enjoyed uh recording it, and I would love to hear your thoughts and your feedback and how does culture play a role for you, you know, as a consumer in fragrance.
• 51:26
  SPEAKER_01: Let us know.
• 51:27
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I'd love to hear from you in your in comments or you can email us, whatever you want to do, but definitely chime in on this conversation and let's keep it going.
• 51:34
  SPEAKER_01: But Veronique, as always, thank you so much.
• 51:36
  SPEAKER_01: This was such a lovely conversation.
• 51:38
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you, Dekta.
• 51:39
  SPEAKER_02: It was always a pleasure, and I hope everybody um uh enjoyed it.
• 51:44
  SPEAKER_02: And if you have any questions, don't hesitate to ask.
• 51:48
  SPEAKER_01: Hey guys, so I hope you love that episode.
• 51:50
  SPEAKER_01: Please make sure to hit subscribe if you're tuning in to us on any podcast platform.
• 51:55
  SPEAKER_01: We are available on so many different platforms.
• 51:57
  SPEAKER_01: So wherever it is that you're tuning in, just go hit subscribe.
• 52:01
  SPEAKER_01: You will be immediately notified when we publish new episodes.
• 52:04
  SPEAKER_01: This way, you're able to tune in to amazing insights from experts, brand founders, industry leaders, authors, all the wonderful people that we host.
• 52:12
  SPEAKER_01: And that's very important for me because I love to hear from you guys and really understand what you love and what you want to hear more of.
• 52:20
  SPEAKER_01: Also, make sure to give us a follow on all of our social media outlets.
• 52:23
  SPEAKER_01: We're available on Instagram, TikTok, X, you name it, we're there.
• 52:27
  SPEAKER_01: We also have a blog on Medium.
• 52:29
  SPEAKER_01: So if you're a reader and you love Medium blogs, check us out on Medium.
• 52:33
  SPEAKER_01: We publish some really great articles on there that do deeper dives than just what's available on the podcast.
• 52:38
  SPEAKER_01: And it's really a great place for all of you science geeks out there that want to learn a little bit more.
• 52:43
  SPEAKER_01: We go above and beyond with our research and making sure we're bringing you information that you usually probably won't hear about in other outlets.
• 52:50
  SPEAKER_01: So check us out, leave us a comment, leave us a review, and we'll be back next time with another episode.
• 52:55
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.