Latest / The Path Went Chilly / Shannon Green and Dewayne Bell Pt. 2

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Shannon Green and Dewayne Bell Pt. 2 · The Path Went Chilly

0:00
Speaker 1: Thank you.
0:30
Speaker 2: Welcome back to part two of our series about the
0:32
Speaker 2: disappearances of Shannon Green and Dwayne Bell. Let's dive right
0:35
Speaker 2: back into discussing the case. So here's more about Rainier's story.
0:40
Speaker 2: He claimed that the following evening after this encounter in
0:43
Speaker 2: the cornfield, and of course the following evening happened to
0:46
Speaker 2: be July the 11th, the last day that Dwayne was
0:48
Speaker 2: confirmed to be alive, Rainier said that he phoned his
0:51
Speaker 2: father David and demanded that they meet, and that's when
0:54
Speaker 2: he revealed everything that Dwayne had told him and even
0:57
Speaker 2: played the tape recording of their conversation. So, in response,
1:01
Speaker 2: David said that he needed to go find Dwayne and
1:04
Speaker 2: talk to him, but Rainier claimed that he never saw
1:07
Speaker 2: Dwayne again, and almost immediately thereafter, that's when David moved
1:11
Speaker 2: to Tucson, Arizona. So, Rainier, obviously, one of the biggest
1:15
Speaker 2: red flags is that he never shared any of this
1:17
Speaker 2: information during the early stages of the investigation back in 1986,
1:22
Speaker 2: but Rainier actually admitted that he was so angry by
1:25
Speaker 2: what Dwayne told him that he was going to perform
1:27
Speaker 2: some vigilante justice and kill Dwayne and David himself for
1:31
Speaker 2: what they did, but he never got the opportunity. because
1:34
Speaker 2: he was being watched so closely by the authorities, and
1:37
Speaker 2: then they both just disappeared. So, pretty brazen that he
1:40
Speaker 2: would admit that, saying that I'm planning to kill these
1:42
Speaker 2: two murderers myself back in 1986.
1:46
Speaker 1: Again, this sounds so improbable. This is the same guy
1:50
Speaker 1: that's outside of, like, adult doors, taking pictures of people
1:53
Speaker 1: going in, because they're consuming pornography. He's shaming them. And
1:57
Speaker 1: now he's talking about vigilante justice? And is he positioning
2:01
Speaker 1: himself as this vigilante, seeking justice because he's trying to
2:05
Speaker 1: put himself on a pedestal. Again, it's like that high
2:08
Speaker 1: horse or sanctimonious attitude. How dare they do that? Let
2:12
Speaker 1: me right this wrong. Like he's this avenger out there
2:15
Speaker 1: doing the Lord's work. And I think that he's got
2:19
Speaker 1: a difficult time reading the room, Rainier does, because it
2:24
Speaker 1: almost seems like He's adding this detail because he feels
2:28
Speaker 1: like it would be perceived like, oh, wow, like, he's
2:31
Speaker 1: really angry about this. He couldn't be responsible. He was
2:34
Speaker 1: going to kill them for what they did.
2:36
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly. Because he was, like, passing himself off as
2:39
Speaker 2: a good friend of Shannon and her family. So he's
2:42
Speaker 2: making it sound like, oh, I'm going to kill Dwayne
2:44
Speaker 2: for what he did to Shannon just to right this
2:46
Speaker 2: wrong and this justice. But of course, when I first
2:49
Speaker 2: heard that story, I was completely rolling my eyes. But
2:51
Speaker 2: here is the big twist in this case. Rainier's story
2:54
Speaker 2: is that on August the 23rd, 1986, about a month
2:57
Speaker 2: after Shannon and Dwayne went missing, he decided to give
3:01
Speaker 2: the tape of the recording to a detective from the
3:04
Speaker 2: Davies County Sheriff's Office. He said that he had a
3:07
Speaker 2: general mistrust of the police, but this detective was a
3:10
Speaker 2: friend of his, so that's why he decided to give
3:12
Speaker 2: it to him, and this detective subsequently turned it over
3:15
Speaker 2: to the Kentucky State Police. Well, when the Owensboro Police
3:18
Speaker 2: Department interviewed Rainier nearly 20 years later and heard this story,
3:23
Speaker 2: they were like, come on, there's no record of this
3:24
Speaker 2: tape being anywhere. And if there was a recording, we
3:27
Speaker 2: would have heard about it by now. But they did
3:29
Speaker 2: find some documentation to show that the Kentucky State Police
3:33
Speaker 2: had transcribed a recording of a tape and performed an investigation.
3:37
Speaker 2: But unfortunately, they had improperly filed the tape in their archives,
3:41
Speaker 2: so the Bowensboro Police Department did not actually find it
3:45
Speaker 2: until 2005. But when they listened to it, they actually
3:48
Speaker 2: found a recording of a conversation between Rainier and someone
3:52
Speaker 2: who sounded like Dwayne, and They asked nine members of
3:56
Speaker 2: Dwayne's family to listen to it, and they all confirmed that, yes,
3:59
Speaker 2: this does sound like his voice, and it did sound
4:02
Speaker 2: like Dwayne was confessing on that tape of having killed someone. So,
4:05
Speaker 2: a piece of evidence that actually shows that Rainier's story
4:09
Speaker 2: might be true.
4:11
Speaker 1: This is doing my head in. So, like, Rainier, with
4:14
Speaker 1: all of his foibles and all of his issues, all
4:18
Speaker 1: of the issues with his character, he might actually be
4:21
Speaker 1: telling the truth, but How much of the truth? I
4:24
Speaker 1: don't know.
4:26
Speaker 2: Yeah, we're going to go into more detail about this
4:28
Speaker 2: recording here, because even though it does back up parts
4:31
Speaker 2: of Rainier's story, it does not back up all of it.
4:34
Speaker 2: And of course, when they asked Rainier, like, why, like,
4:37
Speaker 2: you did not give this tape to us much earlier, like,
4:40
Speaker 2: he said that because he was looking like a suspect
4:43
Speaker 2: in Shannon's disappearance, he was worried that the Owensboro PD
4:46
Speaker 2: had tunnel vision. He later stated during an interview, quote,
4:50
Speaker 2: No one set out to find out what happened to Shannon.
4:52
Speaker 2: They set out to find what I did to Shannon.
4:54
Speaker 2: There's a big difference, end quote. So that's why he
4:58
Speaker 2: says that he only gave it to this one detective
5:00
Speaker 2: with the Davies County Sheriff's Office that he trusted. But
5:04
Speaker 2: I think that he did have his ulterior motives because
5:07
Speaker 2: you might recall that Rainier went on trial for sodomy
5:11
Speaker 2: and was found not guilty on August the 19th, 1986.
5:15
Speaker 2: and it turned out that the tape was logged into
5:17
Speaker 2: evidence on August the 23rd, 1986, four days after the acquittal.
5:22
Speaker 2: So I personally believe that Rainier was worried that he
5:25
Speaker 2: was going to be found not guilty and was holding
5:27
Speaker 2: onto the tape as leverage, and that if he was
5:30
Speaker 2: being threatened with a long prison sentence, he was suddenly
5:32
Speaker 2: going to pull it out, and say that, oh, I've
5:35
Speaker 2: got this piece of evidence involving another cold case, if
5:37
Speaker 2: you give me a lighter sentence, I will hand it
5:39
Speaker 2: over to you, and he was going to use it
5:41
Speaker 2: as leverage, but then when he was acquitted, he finally
5:44
Speaker 2: decided to give it over to this detective friend of his,
5:47
Speaker 2: but then unfortunately it wound up being misfiled for nearly
5:49
Speaker 2: 20 years.
5:51
Speaker 1: This is so bizarre. Like, I, my instincts on this
5:55
Speaker 1: one clearly are all wrong, because maybe I was just
5:59
Speaker 1: operating under the presupposition that Rainier was a bit of
6:03
Speaker 1: a dirtbag because of the charges that he had earlier,
6:07
Speaker 1: the sodomy, and it made me incredibly uncomfortable. And so
6:10
Speaker 1: it's hard for me personally to not view him as
6:15
Speaker 1: someone who could potentially have done this to Shannon and Dwayne.
6:19
Speaker 1: But then when he actually backs up some of his
6:23
Speaker 1: absurd claims with real tangible evidence, like, I'm shocked.
6:29
Speaker 2: Well, what is crazy is that, unfortunately, the original audio
6:33
Speaker 2: of the recording has never been released publicly, but they
6:36
Speaker 2: have published excerpts of the transcript of the recording and
6:39
Speaker 2: some newspaper articles, and I actually wish that they had
6:42
Speaker 2: released the whole thing, because this would have been our
6:44
Speaker 2: perfect opportunity for you to do another statement analysis that
6:47
Speaker 2: we did several months ago, because I would love to
6:50
Speaker 2: see you analyze all of Dwayne's words and find out
6:53
Speaker 2: whether you believed he was telling the truth or not.
6:56
Speaker 1: That would be really interesting. We've got to do another
6:58
Speaker 1: case like that again soon because that was really, really eye-opening.
7:03
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was. And it was a similar thing where
7:05
Speaker 2: it was another young man who was supposedly saying that
7:07
Speaker 2: he committed a crime and killed his sister while he
7:10
Speaker 2: was a teenager. And it sounds like the same thing
7:12
Speaker 2: with Dwayne because he's making a so-called confession when he's
7:15
Speaker 2: 18 years old. But when you look at kind of
7:17
Speaker 2: the transcripts, you can't tell if he's telling the truth
7:20
Speaker 2: or not.
7:21
Speaker 1: Yeah, and from what I recall, we did the statement
7:23
Speaker 1: analysis episodes. I didn't believe that based on his words,
7:27
Speaker 1: he truly did kill his sister. I think he had
7:30
Speaker 1: some guilt about what happened to her, potentially, but I
7:34
Speaker 1: don't think that he did it himself.
7:36
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I wonder if it was kind of the
7:37
Speaker 2: same thing with Dwayne, because as we're going to talk
7:39
Speaker 2: about in this recording, he does make some vague statements
7:43
Speaker 2: that he killed someone, but at no point does he
7:45
Speaker 2: actually use Shannon's name at any point. during the recording. So,
7:49
Speaker 2: as an example, one of his lines includes, quote, I
7:52
Speaker 2: done something the other day. I need to get out
7:54
Speaker 2: of town for a while. Me and her been into
7:56
Speaker 2: it for a while, and I just got pissed off.
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Speaker 2: End quote. And then he follows it up by saying, quote,
8:01
Speaker 2: It's worse than that. I mean, I heard her real bad.
8:04
Speaker 2: hurt some others too. I need to get out of
8:06
Speaker 2: town pretty bad, end quote. And when Rainier asks, who
8:09
Speaker 2: all did you hurt? Dwayne replies, it's a girl and
8:13
Speaker 2: a kid. So he actually did use that statement in
8:16
Speaker 2: the recording, but he never gave any specific details. So
8:19
Speaker 2: he's talking about hurting people and needing to get out
8:22
Speaker 2: of town, but at no point does he ever refer
8:24
Speaker 2: to Shannon or Angie or anyone else's name.
8:28
Speaker 1: This is so difficult, especially like, When we're going off
8:32
Speaker 1: this kind of secondhand information, we don't have the actual tape.
8:36
Speaker 1: Even the transcripts would be a little bit sketchy at
8:40
Speaker 1: this point. And saying you hurt people, that can mean
8:43
Speaker 1: a lot of things. Did you physically hurt them? Did
8:45
Speaker 1: you emotionally hurt them? Did your actions somehow put them
8:49
Speaker 1: in the path that somebody else hurt them? There's a
8:51
Speaker 1: lot of different ways that one can interpret that. And
8:54
Speaker 1: unless we actually could question Dwayne, it's really, really hard. Like,
8:59
Speaker 1: I'm with you. I wish that we had his words
9:02
Speaker 1: so that we could analyze this and dig a little
9:04
Speaker 1: bit deeper.
9:05
Speaker 2: From the transcript excerpts I've read so far, I don't
9:08
Speaker 2: think he actually uses the word kill. He just says hurt,
9:11
Speaker 2: like hurt them real bad. But it could be a
9:13
Speaker 2: thing where he doesn't want to admit what he did.
9:16
Speaker 2: Like it could be a thing where maybe he wasn't
9:18
Speaker 2: intending to kill someone, but he just lost his temper
9:21
Speaker 2: and killed someone accidentally. And that's why he's using the
9:24
Speaker 2: word hurt.
9:26
Speaker 1: You could send me, like, I don't need the entire transcript.
9:29
Speaker 1: You could send me as little as, like, a paragraph
9:31
Speaker 1: or two or, like, small excerpts, and I could analyze
9:35
Speaker 1: them and tell you just based on that what I
9:38
Speaker 1: get out of it. So, like, if it's enough that's
9:42
Speaker 1: worth going through and talking about after the fact.
9:45
Speaker 2: Okay, I'll look back at that and see if there's
9:47
Speaker 2: enough material for maybe us to revisit it if you
9:49
Speaker 2: want to do, like, your own analysis of Dwayne's statements.
9:54
Speaker 2: But there's another part where, like, Rainier pushes him for
9:56
Speaker 2: more details. The only time he uses the word killed
9:59
Speaker 2: is when Rainier pushes him for more details, and he
10:01
Speaker 2: finally admits, quote, because I killed one of, I killed them. So,
10:04
Speaker 2: kind of interesting, it goes from I killed one of,
10:07
Speaker 2: and then goes to I killed them, as if maybe
10:10
Speaker 2: he was going to only admit to one crime, but
10:12
Speaker 2: is now admitting that he killed multiple people. Yeah.
10:16
Speaker 3: Yeah.
10:17
Speaker 1: It's interesting. So, yeah, one to them, it's like you
10:21
Speaker 1: almost let the mask slip for a moment and by
10:25
Speaker 1: accident just leaked out a confession saying them rather than
10:30
Speaker 1: like this one person. You could refer to somebody as them,
10:33
Speaker 1: but it sounds like a plural statement just based on
10:36
Speaker 1: what you're saying so far.
10:37
Speaker 2: Yeah. And the unfortunate part is that, like, this recording
10:42
Speaker 2: ends right after Dwayne tells Rainier that he hid the
10:45
Speaker 2: bodies in a cornfield, but unfortunately, the visit to the
10:48
Speaker 2: cornfield took place at a later time, and Dwayne and
10:51
Speaker 2: Rainier did not have his tape recording when this incident happened.
10:55
Speaker 2: So the incident in the cornfield is where Dwayne supposedly gave, like,
10:59
Speaker 2: all the specific details about how he killed Shannon and
11:02
Speaker 2: how he killed Angie and how he killed the girl
11:04
Speaker 2: with the girl and the kid, but unfortunately, we have
11:07
Speaker 2: no recording of this, so we just have to take
11:09
Speaker 2: Rainier's word that this is what Dwayne said.
11:11
Speaker 1: Like, Rainier is such an oddball. It's so strange that he's, like,
11:16
Speaker 1: out here, like, What is he trying to do? Like,
11:19
Speaker 1: Avenger stuff, law enforcement stuff, trying to elicit a confession?
11:24
Speaker 1: It feels like he's staging his very own, like, Mr.
11:27
Speaker 1: Big operations.
11:29
Speaker 2: Yeah, almost like that. Like, I know that David, when
11:31
Speaker 2: he's questioned about this later on, he tries to say
11:34
Speaker 2: that Rainier probably coerced Dwayne into making this confession to
11:37
Speaker 2: admitting that he killed these people in order to take
11:39
Speaker 2: the attention off himself. But in my eyes, I think
11:42
Speaker 2: that if Rainier was doing that, he would have made
11:44
Speaker 2: Dwayne say more specific statements, like, say, on tape, I
11:48
Speaker 2: killed Shannon and this is what I did to her,
11:50
Speaker 2: yet the only recordings we have is just Dwayne making
11:53
Speaker 2: these kind of vague statements. So, in a way that
11:56
Speaker 2: makes Rainier's story more believable, because it really does sound
11:59
Speaker 2: like apparently the recording that it's just a casual conversation
12:02
Speaker 2: where Rainier is pushing him to share more details, but
12:05
Speaker 2: he's just not getting anything out of him.
12:08
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's possible. I mean, and we also don't know
12:11
Speaker 1: that if Rainier was pushing pause when he said whatever
12:16
Speaker 1: it was to try to potentially elicit a confession, if
12:20
Speaker 1: that was the case. He could have just been stopping
12:22
Speaker 1: and starting with his recording device. Like we're not talking
12:25
Speaker 1: about sophisticated devices like we have today. And would law
12:30
Speaker 1: enforcement be calling in tech experts to ask if like
12:33
Speaker 1: Rainier had been pushing pause or hitting stop start while
12:37
Speaker 1: he was recording? I have no idea what would have
12:40
Speaker 1: been their protocol with stuff like that. So I don't
12:42
Speaker 1: even want to make an assumption, but yeah, it's, this
12:46
Speaker 1: is all just, case is so bizarre.
12:49
Speaker 2: I know, I told you it would make your head explode,
12:51
Speaker 2: because you start out learning details about this one story
12:54
Speaker 2: and thinking one thing, and then doing a complete 180
12:56
Speaker 2: and thinking, ooh, maybe this did happen after all. But
13:01
Speaker 2: they did find one detail about Rainier's story which did
13:04
Speaker 2: seem to be corroborated, because Rainier claimed that while they
13:07
Speaker 2: were out in the cornfield, Dwayne told them that he
13:09
Speaker 2: had called the police and confessed to what he did.
13:13
Speaker 2: When the Owensboro Police Department checked their records, they did
13:15
Speaker 2: find a handwritten note from one of their sergeants, which
13:18
Speaker 2: was dated July the 6th, 1986, which was the exact
13:22
Speaker 2: same day Shannon went missing, and while it contained no
13:25
Speaker 2: specific details, it did state that someone called into the
13:28
Speaker 2: police department that day and said, quote, I've done killed
13:31
Speaker 2: two or three. Better stop me before I kill more,
13:34
Speaker 2: end quote. But unfortunately, there were no more specific details.
13:38
Speaker 2: So for all we know, maybe Rainier made the call
13:40
Speaker 2: himself just to plant the seeds that someone else was
13:43
Speaker 2: making a confession. But in spite of his credibility issues,
13:47
Speaker 2: the recording did seem to corroborate his story and he
13:49
Speaker 2: did pass a polygraph. So investigators finally acknowledged that maybe
13:54
Speaker 2: he is telling the truth after all.
13:56
Speaker 1: I done killed two or three. If you're going to
14:00
Speaker 1: be calling in with a confession, I think you would
14:02
Speaker 1: know the number of people you killed. If it was
14:04
Speaker 1: a genuine confession, right?
14:07
Speaker 2: But it is kind of weird that Rainier threw in
14:09
Speaker 2: this detail and they actually found something in their notes,
14:11
Speaker 2: but we can't even be 100% sure that they were
14:14
Speaker 2: calling about Shannon's case. Like it could have been just
14:16
Speaker 2: some stupid kid doing a prank where it says, I'm
14:19
Speaker 2: going to call the police department and say I killed
14:20
Speaker 2: two or three people and has no relation to this
14:23
Speaker 2: case whatsoever.
14:24
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly. We can't make that assumption. But my mind
14:28
Speaker 1: is blown. The fact that anything that Rainier has said
14:31
Speaker 1: along the way, that it's been genuine or been backed
14:34
Speaker 1: up by evidence. Like, I feel like I'm so wrong
14:37
Speaker 1: about this one. Do you know what I mean? Like,
14:39
Speaker 1: I usually feel like I get a pretty good intuitive
14:43
Speaker 1: vibe about, like, where a case is going and, like,
14:46
Speaker 1: who's doing what. But this one, I feel, like, so wrong.
14:50
Speaker 2: Yeah, I was seeing your reaction when I started telling
14:52
Speaker 2: you the details. You seemed convinced that John Rainier was
14:54
Speaker 2: the perpetrator, but now you can't be 100% sure.
14:57
Speaker 1: I can't be 100% sure about anything at this point,
15:01
Speaker 1: but it's looking like John Rainier is at least telling
15:03
Speaker 1: the truth about some of these things, and that in
15:06
Speaker 1: and of itself is blowing my mind.
15:08
Speaker 2: And we know that he's a bad person, that he's
15:10
Speaker 2: been in prison for doing horrible things, but I always
15:13
Speaker 2: like to use the expression, sometimes even a blind squirrel
15:15
Speaker 2: will find a nut, so maybe this is the one
15:17
Speaker 2: example for John Rainier.
15:19
Speaker 1: Exactly, it's like the broken, even a broken clock is
15:22
Speaker 1: right twice a day.
15:23
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly. So sadly by this point, Shannon's mother Lois
15:28
Speaker 2: had passed away of cancer in 1997, but Rainier actually
15:31
Speaker 2: agreed to speak with some of Shannon's surviving aunts to
15:34
Speaker 2: share his story, and They also believed that he was
15:37
Speaker 2: being truthful, so investigators now started to place their focus
15:41
Speaker 2: on Dwayne's father, David, who, surprise, surprise, had also run
15:45
Speaker 2: into legal troubles in the years following his son's disappearance.
15:49
Speaker 2: So I previously mentioned that David and his girlfriend at
15:51
Speaker 2: the time had moved to Tucson, Arizona, but in July
15:54
Speaker 2: of 1988, they wound up being arrested in Owensboro and
15:58
Speaker 2: charged with marijuana trafficking, as it turned out that they
16:01
Speaker 2: had started an operation to move marijuana from Mexico to
16:04
Speaker 2: Owensboro through Tucson, And after serving some time in prison,
16:08
Speaker 2: David was released and moved back to Owensboro. But right
16:12
Speaker 2: around the time this case was being reopened, he wound
16:14
Speaker 2: up going back to jail on a parole violation after
16:17
Speaker 2: being arrested for a DUI. So nothing but model citizens
16:20
Speaker 2: in this entire story.
16:23
Speaker 1: This is such a group of, I guess, it feels
16:27
Speaker 1: like morally corrupt men that are just out here doing
16:30
Speaker 1: bad things, talking about doing bad things, doing very strange
16:34
Speaker 1: things in the part of Rainier. And they all seem
16:37
Speaker 1: to be grouped together here. And I can think of
16:40
Speaker 1: another case where there's so many people who seem like
16:44
Speaker 1: they would be good suspects based on their past actions
16:48
Speaker 1: who don't seem to be the one who necessarily has
16:51
Speaker 1: done it, especially with Rainier. This whole case just has
16:55
Speaker 1: me so confused. I don't know who did what and
16:58
Speaker 1: to whom.
17:00
Speaker 2: And you mentioned morally corrupt men. Like, we have to
17:02
Speaker 2: be delicate when talking about Dwayne, because for all we know,
17:05
Speaker 2: he could have been a morally corrupt man. But on
17:07
Speaker 2: the other hand, he could have just been an innocent
17:09
Speaker 2: victim who was murdered. And someone is using that opportunity to, like,
17:13
Speaker 2: try to paint him as the fall guy. But for
17:15
Speaker 2: all we know, like, he may have legitimately harmed Shannon
17:18
Speaker 2: and some other people. And just because he disappeared himself
17:21
Speaker 2: does not necessarily mean he was a good person.
17:23
Speaker 1: It doesn't mean he was a good person. And if
17:26
Speaker 1: we're to go by what his words are... and these
17:29
Speaker 1: excerpts of what could be seen as potentially a confession,
17:34
Speaker 1: then it would be easy to make assumptions that he
17:37
Speaker 1: might be morally corrupt. But again, without actually looking at
17:41
Speaker 1: them or listening to them, it's really hard to know.
17:44
Speaker 1: There could be many different things that could be underlying
17:48
Speaker 1: why he's saying what he's saying that aren't that he
17:52
Speaker 1: did those things. People can feel responsible for doing something
17:56
Speaker 1: without being the one that actually, like, pulled the trigger,
17:59
Speaker 1: so to speak.
18:00
Speaker 2: Yeah, like, for all we know, it could be an
18:02
Speaker 2: alternate scenario where maybe David was the killer and Dwayne
18:05
Speaker 2: was there and he's just getting out some of his guilt. Like,
18:07
Speaker 2: you can't write off any scenario in this whole convoluted case.
18:12
Speaker 2: So when David was finally confronted with Rainier's story by
18:15
Speaker 2: the police, he gave his version of events, claiming that
18:18
Speaker 2: on July the 11th, 1986, which was the last day
18:22
Speaker 2: Dwayne was confirmed to be alive, David said that he
18:24
Speaker 2: seemed very quiet and anxious, and after they got off work,
18:27
Speaker 2: they both went to Dwayne's sister's house, and while conversing
18:31
Speaker 2: in the yard, David asked Dwayne if he had a
18:33
Speaker 2: problem that he can help him with, and Dwayne supposedly
18:36
Speaker 2: replied no, but he did ask his father if he
18:40
Speaker 2: could borrow some money. So David said that after he
18:43
Speaker 2: gave him $ 80, Dwayne hopped on his bicycle and rode
18:46
Speaker 2: away from the house down an alley, and this was
18:49
Speaker 2: the last time he ever saw him. David did confirm
18:53
Speaker 2: that Rainier phoned him later that day and demanded that
18:55
Speaker 2: they meet up, where Rainier played him the recording of
18:58
Speaker 2: his so-called conversation with Dwayne, but David's version of events
19:02
Speaker 2: is that Rainier did not play the entire tape, only
19:05
Speaker 2: a small snippet in which he heard Dwayne say, quote,
19:09
Speaker 2: I hit Shannon. And then afterwards, David said that he
19:12
Speaker 2: went searching for Dwayne, but was unable to find him.
19:14
Speaker 2: But that's a hole in the story, because as you recall,
19:18
Speaker 2: I said that at no point during the actual recording
19:20
Speaker 2: did Dwayne say Shannon's name. So why is David saying
19:24
Speaker 2: that he heard his son say, I hit Shannon? I mean,
19:27
Speaker 2: to be fair, he's being questioned about this 19 years
19:30
Speaker 2: after the fact, so he could be misremembering, but this
19:33
Speaker 2: has been pointed out as a piece of evidence which
19:35
Speaker 2: might show that David is lying.
19:38
Speaker 1: David's looking pretty sketchy here. So is it possible that
19:43
Speaker 1: he is responsible for all of these? Well, I don't
19:47
Speaker 1: know about Angie's death, but is he responsible? for these
19:50
Speaker 1: like I don't know did he kill his own son
19:54
Speaker 1: did he make his own son disappear did he know
19:57
Speaker 1: too much I have no idea I'm I'm just I'm
20:02
Speaker 1: at such a loss here because we're hearing all of
20:04
Speaker 1: this information that seems to be raising red flags especially
20:09
Speaker 1: the way that David's talking right now, and he's obviously
20:11
Speaker 1: not a good guy either. So I don't know what
20:14
Speaker 1: to think and what to make of this.
20:17
Speaker 2: I mean, at the time, people were thinking one of
20:19
Speaker 2: two scenarios, that either David helped Dwayne disappear, like actually
20:23
Speaker 2: took him with him to Tucson, maybe helped him hide
20:25
Speaker 2: out in Mexico, because he knew that he had killed
20:28
Speaker 2: Shannon and he wanted to help him hide out, but
20:30
Speaker 2: there have been no confirmed sightings of Dwayne at all
20:32
Speaker 2: these past 40 years to indicate he's still alive, so
20:35
Speaker 2: the other scenario is that David knew what happened to Shannon,
20:39
Speaker 2: or maybe he was the one who killed Shannon and
20:41
Speaker 2: then killed Dwayne to cover the whole thing up, but
20:44
Speaker 2: even though we know that David isn't a good guy,
20:46
Speaker 2: that he has spent time in prison for stuff like
20:48
Speaker 2: marijuana trafficking, is he cold-blooded enough to murder his own son?
20:52
Speaker 1: I don't know. It's really hard to gauge what somebody
20:56
Speaker 1: is capable of. If he thought that his son was
20:59
Speaker 1: out there or heard that his son was out there
21:00
Speaker 1: confessing or tying himself to the murders... maybe David thought
21:05
Speaker 1: it's only a matter of time until I'm then linked
21:07
Speaker 1: with Shannon. And will my son stand up under the
21:10
Speaker 1: scrutiny and like the hot lights of the police interrogating him?
21:15
Speaker 1: Or is he going to fold and implicate me? And
21:18
Speaker 1: if that is the case, then I can understand David,
21:21
Speaker 1: if he is cold-blooded, cold-hearted, and capable of committing murder
21:27
Speaker 1: and killing his own son to protect himself, it wouldn't
21:30
Speaker 1: be the first time that we've seen a case where
21:32
Speaker 1: something like that happens.
21:34
Speaker 2: Yeah, sadly, some people are cold-blooded enough to kill their
21:37
Speaker 2: own children in order to cover up what they've done.
21:40
Speaker 2: But David would be interviewed by WFIE Channel 14 News
21:44
Speaker 2: shortly after his interrogation, where he was confronted with some
21:47
Speaker 2: of the discrepancies in his story, uh, He was told, like,
21:50
Speaker 2: how did you hear Dwayne say, I hit Shannon, when
21:53
Speaker 2: the actual recording has no mention of Dwayne using Shannon's name?
21:58
Speaker 2: And David's response was, well, maybe the tape that Rainier
22:01
Speaker 2: played for me at the time was different than the
22:03
Speaker 2: one that the police currently have in evidence. And another
22:06
Speaker 2: potential hole in his story is that he claimed that
22:09
Speaker 2: after his final conversation with Dwayne took place at Dwayne's
22:12
Speaker 2: sister's house, he last saw him riding away on his
22:15
Speaker 2: bicycle down an alley. But after Dwayne went missing and
22:19
Speaker 2: his bike was found, it was found, it was right
22:21
Speaker 2: next to the fence at his sister's house. So why
22:24
Speaker 2: is he seen riding away from his sister's house, but
22:27
Speaker 2: then later on his bike is found back at the
22:30
Speaker 2: actual house? And when David was asked about this by
22:33
Speaker 2: a reporter, he gave this nonsensical response, quote, Yeah, David
22:36
Speaker 2: is looking to be pretty suspicious at this point.
22:52
Speaker 1: And he could potentially have a vested interest in making
22:55
Speaker 1: his son disappear. As much as that is something that's
22:59
Speaker 1: really hard to fathom because the average person isn't capable
23:02
Speaker 1: of hurting their own child, David, I mean, potentially he could.
23:07
Speaker 1: Especially if his son knew too much or he thought
23:10
Speaker 1: he could implicate him, they could have done this together.
23:13
Speaker 2: We don't know.
23:13
Speaker 1: There could be any number of scenarios that could have
23:16
Speaker 1: played out. But David being like, oh, he was riding
23:19
Speaker 1: in that direction on his bike, it doesn't seem to
23:21
Speaker 1: be enough. or enough evidence to not implicate him in
23:26
Speaker 1: what happened to David or to what happened to Dwayne.
23:29
Speaker 2: And needless to say, the biggest red flag with David
23:31
Speaker 2: was the fact that when Dwayne went missing, uh, David
23:34
Speaker 2: immediately left town and relocated to Tucson, Arizona without trying
23:38
Speaker 2: to find out where his son was. Uh, David insisted
23:41
Speaker 2: that he had to do it for work reasons because
23:43
Speaker 2: he got a new job, though he later found out
23:45
Speaker 2: his new job was marijuana trafficking, so that doesn't exactly
23:49
Speaker 2: give him a lot of credibility. And he said that
23:51
Speaker 2: he wasn't overly concerned with Dwayne's well-being because after he
23:55
Speaker 2: learned that Shannon had gone missing, he just assumed they
23:57
Speaker 2: ran away together, like teenagers always do. So he's just
24:00
Speaker 2: going to leave the state and relocate to another location.
24:04
Speaker 2: David also claimed that about a week after he arrived
24:07
Speaker 2: in Tucson, he received word from his girlfriend's sister who
24:10
Speaker 2: told him that Dwayne had called her and asked for him.
24:14
Speaker 2: And David said that he suspected that Rainier had forced
24:16
Speaker 2: Dwayne to make the call in order to lure them
24:19
Speaker 2: someplace together and kill them both. So that's why he
24:22
Speaker 2: didn't try hard to return to Kentucky to try to
24:24
Speaker 2: find his son.
24:25
Speaker 1: I mean, everything that David's saying is like really raising
24:30
Speaker 1: the red flags. I truly thought at the beginning that
24:33
Speaker 1: Rainier was the best suspect, but David is seeming to
24:37
Speaker 1: me right now to be the one who's made a
24:40
Speaker 1: lot of really questionable moves. And unlike Rainier, the things
24:45
Speaker 1: that he's saying are not able to be corroborated or
24:48
Speaker 1: backed up with any type of tangible evidence.
24:51
Speaker 2: That is true, because I don't think that they checked
24:53
Speaker 2: with his girlfriend's sister to make sure that she had
24:55
Speaker 2: received a phone call from Dwayne after he went missing.
24:59
Speaker 2: We only have David's word on that. We really don't
25:01
Speaker 2: have any hard evidence that Dwayne was still alive after
25:04
Speaker 2: July 11, 1986. When they checked records, it turned out
25:09
Speaker 2: that the Owensboro Police Department had contacted the Tucson Police
25:12
Speaker 2: Department to request assistance with their investigation, and they had
25:16
Speaker 2: a record that a Tucson police detective had interviewed David
25:19
Speaker 2: on October the 9th, 1986. David reportedly told them that
25:24
Speaker 2: he gave Dwayne some money because he wanted to leave town,
25:27
Speaker 2: and that he had also heard rumors that Dwayne got
25:29
Speaker 2: beat up by a girl who ripped him off on
25:31
Speaker 2: a drug deal. However, when David was questioned about this
25:34
Speaker 2: years later, not only did David deny ever saying these things,
25:38
Speaker 2: but he claimed he never even spoke to a Tucson
25:40
Speaker 2: police detective, even though there was a record of this
25:43
Speaker 2: interview in the file.
25:45
Speaker 1: Well, it does seem a little bit on brand for
25:48
Speaker 1: him to just like deny something and just hope that
25:50
Speaker 1: it goes away. And again, we've got a police file
25:54
Speaker 1: at this point in time that is backing up not
25:57
Speaker 1: what David said, but the opposite. So it's showing that
26:00
Speaker 1: David is indeed somebody who will spin a yarn and
26:04
Speaker 1: he will tell a lie. Whereas we had the opposite
26:06
Speaker 1: thing with Rainier, where the police files that showed that
26:09
Speaker 1: there was indeed this recording basically backed up what Rainier
26:13
Speaker 1: had been saying as improbable and unbelievable as his story was.
26:17
Speaker 1: So we are getting law enforcement serving two different purposes
26:21
Speaker 1: for each of these men, based on what their statements are,
26:25
Speaker 1: and it seems to be condemning David, and Rainier is
26:29
Speaker 1: looking like he's innocent.
26:31
Speaker 2: Yeah, and that's what's shocking to me, is that you
26:34
Speaker 2: have hard evidence in these police files which actually support
26:37
Speaker 2: Rainier's story, but contradict David's version of events. So even
26:40
Speaker 2: though Rainier obviously has the worst criminal history, he's the
26:43
Speaker 2: one who was the murderer and sex offender, he's the
26:46
Speaker 2: one who's coming across as more truthful, which is a
26:49
Speaker 2: really bizarre twist in this whole saga. But, of course,
26:53
Speaker 2: when the investigation was reopened, David became uncooperative. He hired
26:56
Speaker 2: an attorney, and he also refused the police's request to
26:59
Speaker 2: take a polygraph. He did speak to the media on
27:01
Speaker 2: a few occasions and maintained that Rainier's story was outrageous
27:05
Speaker 2: and that neither he nor Dwayne had anything to do
27:07
Speaker 2: with Shannon's disappearance. or the murder of Angie Dickens. During
27:11
Speaker 2: one interview, David flat out stated, you can't make me
27:14
Speaker 2: believe my son was capable of killing anybody. He was
27:17
Speaker 2: a good kid, end quote. David's opinion was that Rainier
27:21
Speaker 2: was the one who murdered Shannon, and that he subsequently
27:24
Speaker 2: killed Dwayne because Dwayne found out about it, and then
27:28
Speaker 2: he disposed of Dwayne's body. and during his police interviews
27:31
Speaker 2: was just trying to point the blame on Dwayne and
27:33
Speaker 2: make him the fall guy, just to take all the
27:36
Speaker 2: suspicion off himself. But once again, Rainier told this story
27:39
Speaker 2: about a recording, and they actually found a recording where
27:42
Speaker 2: it sounded like Dwayne was confessing to some crimes, so
27:46
Speaker 2: that's why after all these years, Rainier's story was the
27:49
Speaker 2: one that stood up under closer scrutiny.
27:52
Speaker 1: This is truly the most befuddling case because whatever instincts
27:57
Speaker 1: I have, I have to just literally think the opposite
28:00
Speaker 1: of whatever I feel is the right answer. I've never
28:03
Speaker 1: felt so wrong. this case really got me hooked for
28:07
Speaker 1: that reason. But David is looking like the one that
28:11
Speaker 1: is really comfortable with lying or it feels like he
28:15
Speaker 1: needs to cover something up because if you were truly innocent,
28:19
Speaker 1: would you need to be lying and fabricating and twisting
28:24
Speaker 1: the truth? Like, I just can't see why unless somebody
28:27
Speaker 1: would say, okay, well, he had a background where he'd
28:30
Speaker 1: spent time in jail, so maybe there was a distrust
28:33
Speaker 1: of law enforcement and so the way that he dealt
28:36
Speaker 1: with them was to lie and it was just like
28:39
Speaker 1: habituated behavior. But it doesn't really seem like it. The
28:44
Speaker 1: nature of what he's being questioned about, your missing son,
28:48
Speaker 1: you would truly think that you would want your son
28:51
Speaker 1: to be found and that you wouldn't just like pop
28:54
Speaker 1: out of state and like go move to Albuquerque.
28:57
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's what's weird to me, is that he didn't
28:59
Speaker 2: seem to show any concern at the time, back in 1986,
29:02
Speaker 2: that his son had suddenly gone missing, and then he's
29:05
Speaker 2: like giving, like his son is giving these vague statements
29:08
Speaker 2: to him about how he needs money and stuff, and
29:10
Speaker 2: then he just rides off on his bicycle, and David
29:12
Speaker 2: is like, well, I'm just going to forget all about
29:14
Speaker 2: this and move to another state, even after my son
29:16
Speaker 2: is officially reported missing, so it is a disturbing lack
29:20
Speaker 2: of concern, which shows that even if he wasn't involved
29:23
Speaker 2: in Dwayne's disappearance, he does sound like a pretty bad father.
29:27
Speaker 2: So the authorities did perform an extensive search of the
29:30
Speaker 2: cornfield on Griffith Station Road, where Rainier claimed that Dwayne
29:34
Speaker 2: had showed him Shannon's body, and while the search turned
29:38
Speaker 2: up nothing, investigators have stated, that they believe Shannon may
29:41
Speaker 2: have been buried there at some point before her body
29:44
Speaker 2: was moved I don't know how they determined that maybe
29:47
Speaker 2: they found some evidence that someone had been dug up
29:50
Speaker 2: But there would have been opportunity to do that because,
29:52
Speaker 2: as you recall, Angie Dickens was found in that same
29:55
Speaker 2: area in October, two months after Shannon went missing. So
29:59
Speaker 2: I could see maybe David or someone else thinking, well,
30:02
Speaker 2: if the police are searching this area, maybe they're going
30:04
Speaker 2: to uncover Shannon's body eventually, so I should move it
30:07
Speaker 2: to another location. So this search took place like 19
30:11
Speaker 2: years after she went missing, so I definitely think that
30:13
Speaker 2: someone would have been capable of moving her body after
30:15
Speaker 2: the fact. and that there might be still some truth
30:18
Speaker 2: to Rainier's story that Shannon was buried there.
30:22
Speaker 1: That is so dark. The idea of so many years
30:25
Speaker 1: later going back and revisiting the site that you disposed of, dumped,
30:30
Speaker 1: buried a body, and to take those remains or whatever
30:34
Speaker 1: is left of them, and to then take them to
30:37
Speaker 1: another location, it just feels so reptilian, like cold and callous.
30:43
Speaker 2: Yeah, like, that seems creepy. That sounds like something the
30:45
Speaker 2: mob would do, because I remember there's actually a scene
30:47
Speaker 2: in Goodfellas where, like, Joe Pesci, Ray Liotta, and Robert
30:50
Speaker 2: De Niro bury a body, and then months later say,
30:52
Speaker 2: we're going to have to move it because they're going
30:54
Speaker 2: to build some real estate, some property in this area,
30:56
Speaker 2: so they're going to find the body, which is darkly
30:58
Speaker 2: funny in that movie, but when you think about someone
31:01
Speaker 2: doing that to a 16-year-old girl, then that's awfully creepy.
31:05
Speaker 2: And needless to say, they did not find any evidence
31:07
Speaker 2: that a girl and her child had been buried in
31:10
Speaker 2: that field, so I don't know, like, what to make
31:12
Speaker 2: of that story. I still don't know if there's any
31:14
Speaker 2: truth to it. But all these events helped generate a
31:17
Speaker 2: lot of new publicity for this case, got it back
31:19
Speaker 2: into the spotlight, but sadly, after they performed the search
31:22
Speaker 2: of the field, it sounds like the investigation once again
31:25
Speaker 2: hit a standstill. and David passed away in August of 2015.
31:29
Speaker 2: I found his obituary online, and it's quite creepy when, like,
31:33
Speaker 2: suspects in a murder investigation are painted as, like, wonderful
31:37
Speaker 2: people in their obituaries. It, like, is a totally different
31:41
Speaker 2: picture than how they're portrayed in these cases, but it
31:43
Speaker 2: actually says that he was preceded in death by his
31:46
Speaker 2: son Dwayne, even though it's never been officially confirmed that
31:49
Speaker 2: Dwayne is dead. And as far as I can tell,
31:52
Speaker 2: John Rainier is still alive, and he has not, like,
31:55
Speaker 2: gone back to prison for any other crimes since his release,
31:58
Speaker 2: so maybe he was legitimately telling the truth when he
32:01
Speaker 2: tried to paint himself as a reformed criminal and felt
32:04
Speaker 2: like he was paying penance by trying to help out
32:06
Speaker 2: in this murder investigation to try to recover Shannon. But unfortunately,
32:10
Speaker 2: that just means that the truth is more murky than ever.
32:14
Speaker 2: Shannon and Dwayne are still missing. The murder of Angie
32:17
Speaker 2: Dickens is still unsolved. We still can't even be certain
32:20
Speaker 2: if her murder is connected to these two cases. So
32:23
Speaker 2: this is just a major cluster here. Like, do you
32:25
Speaker 2: have a theory for what happened to explain for everything?
32:28
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh. My thoughts on this are that David
32:33
Speaker 1: has to be involved. That it's possible that he brought
32:36
Speaker 1: Shannon over and maybe David liked Shannon. Maybe something happened
32:42
Speaker 1: and that ended in her being killed. And then... He
32:45
Speaker 1: left David alive, but then figured out that loose lips
32:49
Speaker 1: sink ships. And David was maybe sharing too much information
32:53
Speaker 1: or showing too much emotion. And that he had to
32:58
Speaker 1: end his son's life and then dispose of the body.
33:01
Speaker 1: And then just make it look like he disappeared. And
33:03
Speaker 1: he probably was assuming that nobody would think he would
33:06
Speaker 1: kill his own son. Because, like, what father would actually
33:09
Speaker 1: do that? And at first, I figured Rainier had to
33:13
Speaker 1: be responsible. if it was his house, like, that Shannon
33:17
Speaker 1: was going to quote-unquote babysit at, and we only have
33:20
Speaker 1: Rainier's word to go off of that she didn't come
33:23
Speaker 1: to babysit or that she never had any plans, and, like,
33:25
Speaker 1: we're hearing that he's the cool dad, but he's got
33:28
Speaker 1: kids that need to be babysat, so obviously they're not
33:31
Speaker 1: the same age as Shannon, and so thinking you've got
33:35
Speaker 1: teenagers coming over to drink, it just made Rainier look
33:39
Speaker 1: so bad, and it makes me feel like a bad
33:43
Speaker 1: person because, I like to believe that people can change
33:47
Speaker 1: and evolve. But when I heard Rainier's charges, it really
33:52
Speaker 1: influenced the way that I thought of him as a
33:55
Speaker 1: human being and like what he was capable of. And
33:57
Speaker 1: like you said, maybe it's true. Maybe Rainier truly did
34:01
Speaker 1: evolve and change and he became a better person because
34:06
Speaker 1: he hasn't gone back to prison or maybe he just
34:08
Speaker 1: got better at hiding it. I don't know what the
34:10
Speaker 1: answer is, but I leave, I hold space for both truths.
34:15
Speaker 1: that maybe he did change, and maybe he also continued
34:19
Speaker 1: to commit crimes, and he just was more skilled, or
34:22
Speaker 1: the types of crimes that he committed were different ones.
34:25
Speaker 1: Because I think it's so bizarre that he chose to
34:29
Speaker 1: stand outside those adult places, like bookstores, places where video rentals,
34:34
Speaker 1: and take pictures of people and think that he's making
34:37
Speaker 1: a difference. That really had me scratching my head. Everything
34:41
Speaker 1: about Rainier has me scratching my head. I think that
34:44
Speaker 1: he's an odd person, but in this case, I don't
34:47
Speaker 1: believe that the odd person had anything to do with
34:51
Speaker 1: any of the murders here. I think that if anyone
34:54
Speaker 1: is responsible, it's David, but when it comes to Angie's murder,
34:57
Speaker 1: that one is a bit of an outlier for me,
35:00
Speaker 1: and it's hard for me to connect it to the
35:02
Speaker 1: other two.
35:03
Speaker 2: Yeah, that is, like, my main complication here, is that
35:06
Speaker 2: I think Rainier is telling the truth about the basic details,
35:09
Speaker 2: but I don't know if he may have exaggerated other details,
35:12
Speaker 2: and I think that has caused a major monkey wrench
35:14
Speaker 2: into this case. Because if your theory is true, that, like,
35:17
Speaker 2: David and Dwayne or both of them killed Shannon together,
35:20
Speaker 2: then it makes sense that David would make him disappear
35:23
Speaker 2: five years later to cover up what happened, because we
35:26
Speaker 2: do have a recording where, like, David or Dwayne did
35:29
Speaker 2: speak to Rainier and seemed to confess to being responsible,
35:33
Speaker 2: for some crimes, and I could see David, if we
35:35
Speaker 2: do know that Rainier did tell David about this, so
35:38
Speaker 2: of course David would probably freak out and say, my
35:41
Speaker 2: son has loose lips, he's talking, I'm gonna go get
35:44
Speaker 2: rid of him, and I'm gonna dispose of his body,
35:46
Speaker 2: and then maybe push forward this cover story that he
35:48
Speaker 2: and Shannon decided to run away together. But I don't
35:52
Speaker 2: know what to make about Rainier's story about, like, Dwayne
35:55
Speaker 2: confessing that he was also responsible for the murder of
35:58
Speaker 2: Angie Dickens, and that he murdered a mother and her child,
36:01
Speaker 2: Because here we are painting him as like this serial
36:04
Speaker 2: killer who killed four people, yet it seems more plausible
36:07
Speaker 2: to me that he was just a kid who got
36:09
Speaker 2: involved with a very bad father and was involved in
36:12
Speaker 2: killing Shannon and then developed some sort of conscience about
36:15
Speaker 2: it and got killed himself. But I don't know where
36:17
Speaker 2: these other so-called murders fit into the story, and it
36:20
Speaker 2: makes me wonder, is Rainier just making up this stuff
36:23
Speaker 2: for his own amusement? Because parts of his story can
36:25
Speaker 2: be corroborated, but parts can't. Like all the stuff that
36:28
Speaker 2: happened in the cornfield where... where Dwayne supposedly shared all
36:32
Speaker 2: these explicit details about how these murders were carried out,
36:35
Speaker 2: they can't be corroborated.
36:37
Speaker 1: But if David did kill Shannon, and then many years
36:40
Speaker 1: later did kill Dwayne, then I feel like that opens
36:44
Speaker 1: up the possibility that he also could have, even though
36:48
Speaker 1: it seems like a different victim profile, different victimology with Angie,
36:53
Speaker 1: It's like Shannon could have been presented to him. If
36:56
Speaker 1: she was brought into the home, it wasn't like he
36:58
Speaker 1: had to go looking for a victim. A victim presented herself.
37:02
Speaker 1: Whereas with Angie, it could have been more of a
37:05
Speaker 1: case where he was looking for a victim. And then
37:08
Speaker 1: if Dwayne somehow felt like he was responsible for what
37:13
Speaker 1: his father was doing, he might have taken responsibility for
37:16
Speaker 1: the murder of Angie in like vague terms. And that
37:21
Speaker 1: could have been what Rainier was interpreting. So I think
37:24
Speaker 1: both things are equally possible. It's possible that Rainier could
37:28
Speaker 1: have just thought about his vigilante justice and thought, well,
37:32
Speaker 1: maybe I could solve multiple crimes here. If he's capable
37:35
Speaker 1: of killing his own son, then maybe he's capable of
37:38
Speaker 1: also killing Angie. So let's just group this all together
37:43
Speaker 1: and maybe try to make it fit. So is Rainier
37:47
Speaker 1: trying to do his own detective work by lumping them together?
37:50
Speaker 1: Or is it something that Dwayne actually said? That's the
37:54
Speaker 1: question that I have. I truly have no idea. But
38:00
Speaker 1: this case has just really thrown me for a loop.
38:04
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly. I mean, and you also have to take
38:06
Speaker 2: into account that even though we have a recording of
38:08
Speaker 2: the first conversation, the... Drenier's account of their conversation in
38:12
Speaker 2: the cornfield was not shared with police until 19 years
38:15
Speaker 2: after the fact, so he could be misremembering or misinterpreting things.
38:18
Speaker 2: And I think that's because he is such a bad
38:21
Speaker 2: person in his own right, and that has complicated the
38:24
Speaker 2: case so much. Because if he had come forward back
38:26
Speaker 2: in 1986, then maybe we would have solved this and
38:29
Speaker 2: been able to figure out what happened. But it sounds
38:31
Speaker 2: like he had his own ulterior motives for remaining silent,
38:34
Speaker 2: because he was facing the sodomy charge, He wanted some
38:38
Speaker 2: leverage with this recording, and he didn't trust the police,
38:40
Speaker 2: so he remained silent until he supposedly reformed himself, and
38:45
Speaker 2: then when he gave the truth, unfortunately, I think it
38:47
Speaker 2: was too late, and they could not find any, like,
38:49
Speaker 2: real evidence to corroborate his story, and that's why Shannon
38:53
Speaker 2: and Dwayne are still missing, and this case is still unsolved.
38:57
Speaker 2: So yeah, like I said, when I covered this one
38:59
Speaker 2: on The Trail Went Cold five years ago, it caused
39:02
Speaker 2: my head to explode, and I went back and forth
39:04
Speaker 2: many times while researching it, and I know you did
39:06
Speaker 2: the same thing as we were recording this. So do
39:09
Speaker 2: you have any final thoughts about the disappearances of Shannon
39:12
Speaker 2: Green and Dwayne Bell?
39:15
Speaker 1: I think as far as all the cases that we've
39:17
Speaker 1: covered or I've ever explored, whether like on my old
39:21
Speaker 1: podcast or Riddle Me That or Us Together, this is
39:26
Speaker 1: one that has truly taken me through all of the
39:28
Speaker 1: emotions because it's made me examine how I'm analyzing people
39:33
Speaker 1: and how I'm looking at the crimes and how I'm
39:36
Speaker 1: looking at someone's ability to potentially change after being a
39:40
Speaker 1: sex offender and my own biases. And so for that,
39:45
Speaker 1: I'm thankful because any case that can cause any kind
39:48
Speaker 1: of introspection, I think, There is some value. But I
39:52
Speaker 1: really would love to know what actually happened to these two. Like,
39:57
Speaker 1: I just... I'm so, so befuddled and I'm so confused. Like,
40:03
Speaker 1: if David did kill them, then where did he put
40:06
Speaker 1: the bodies? How did he dispose of them so successfully
40:09
Speaker 1: that they have never been discovered? Did he dig up
40:12
Speaker 1: remains at a later date, years later, and then move them?
40:17
Speaker 1: I don't know. Like, I just... I'm like you said,
40:21
Speaker 1: like right from the beginning, this is like Tommy Ziegler
40:23
Speaker 1: level making my head spin.
40:26
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly. That's a good way to describe it. And
40:28
Speaker 2: it's always complicated. It's the same thing with the Tommy
40:30
Speaker 2: Ziegler case with one of the victims, Charlie Mays, where
40:33
Speaker 2: you have to analyze, was he truly an innocent victim
40:36
Speaker 2: or did he actively participate in the murders before he
40:39
Speaker 2: was killed? And that's kind of the same thing with Dwayne.
40:41
Speaker 2: This is just an 18-year-old kid, and you're wondering to yourself,
40:44
Speaker 2: was he complicit in some crimes before he went missing?
40:47
Speaker 2: Was he like a serial killer in training, or is
40:50
Speaker 2: he truly an innocent victim who has just been made
40:52
Speaker 2: into a fall guy? We just don't know, but we're
40:56
Speaker 2: recording this just right past the 40-year anniversary of this case,
40:59
Speaker 2: so I'm glad we're keeping it in the spotlight. So
41:02
Speaker 2: hopefully one day we will get the full truth about
41:04
Speaker 2: what happened.
41:05
Speaker 1: And honestly, like, if you can send me the excerpt
41:08
Speaker 1: from the tape, from the transcript, and let me take
41:13
Speaker 1: a look, then I can see if it's worth exploring
41:16
Speaker 1: and us talking about, like, my analysis. Because this case
41:20
Speaker 1: has been really fascinating for me, and I would love
41:23
Speaker 1: to hear Dwayne's words to see if I truly think
41:28
Speaker 1: that he could have been responsible, or if he's just
41:31
Speaker 1: taking responsibility for the actions of his father.
41:35
Speaker 2: Yeah, that would be very interesting. So maybe we'll have
41:37
Speaker 2: an extra mini-sode or something like that later on, because
41:41
Speaker 2: definitely trying to psychoanalyze Dwayne could be like a fascinating experiment.
41:46
Speaker 2: So on that note, that concludes our analysis on the
41:49
Speaker 2: disappearances of Shannon Green and Dwayne Bell, which is one
41:52
Speaker 2: of the wildest cases we've ever covered. So thank you
41:54
Speaker 2: so much for your continued support, and we'll be back
41:57
Speaker 2: next week to talk about another, hopefully more normal case.
42:02
Speaker 3: Robin, do you want to tell us a little bit
42:04
Speaker 3: about the Trail Went Cold Patreon?
42:06
Speaker 2: Yes, the Trail Went Cold Patreon has been around for
42:08
Speaker 2: three years now. And we offer the standard bonus features
42:12
Speaker 2: like early ad-free episodes. And I also send out stickers
42:16
Speaker 2: and sign thank you cards to anyone who signs up
42:18
Speaker 2: with us on Patreon. If you join our $ 5 tier,
42:21
Speaker 2: tier two, we also offer monthly bonus episodes in which
42:25
Speaker 2: I talk about cases which are not featured on the
42:28
Speaker 2: Trail Went Cold's original feed. So they're exclusive to Patreon.
42:32
Speaker 2: And if you join our highest tier, Tier 3, the
42:34
Speaker 2: $ 10 tier, one of the features we offer is an
42:38
Speaker 2: audio commentary track over classic episodes of Unsolved Mysteries, where
42:42
Speaker 2: you can download an audio file and then boot up
42:45
Speaker 2: the original Unsolved Mysteries episode on Amazon Prime or YouTube
42:49
Speaker 2: and play it with my audio commentary playing in the background,
42:52
Speaker 2: where I just provide trivia and factoids about the cases
42:55
Speaker 2: featured in this episode. And incidentally, the very first episode
42:59
Speaker 2: that I did a commentary track over was the episode
43:02
Speaker 2: featuring this case. So if you want to download a
43:04
Speaker 2: commentary track in which I make more smart-ass remarks about
43:08
Speaker 2: Jewel Kaler, then be sure to join Tier 3.
43:11
Speaker 3: So I want to let you know a little bit
43:12
Speaker 3: about the Jules and Ashley Patreon. So there's early ad-free
43:15
Speaker 3: episodes of The Path Went Chili. We've got our Path
43:18
Speaker 3: Went Chili minis, which are always over an hour. So
43:21
Speaker 3: they're not very mini, but they're just too short to
43:23
Speaker 3: turn into a series. And we're really enjoying doing those.
43:26
Speaker 3: So we hope you'll check out those Patreons. We'll link
43:29
Speaker 3: them in the show notes.
43:30
Speaker 2: So I want to thank you all for listening and
43:32
Speaker 2: any chance you have to share us on social media
43:35
Speaker 2: with a friend or to rate and review is greatly appreciated.
43:38
Speaker 2: You can email us at thepathwentchili at gmail.com. You can
43:42
Speaker 2: reach us on Twitter at thepathwentchili. So until next time,
43:45
Speaker 2: be sure to bundle up because cold trails and chilly
43:48
Speaker 2: paths call for warm clothing.
43:49
Speaker 3: Music by Paul Rich from the podcast Cold Callers Comedy.