Latest / Voices for Voices® / AWEtism: Dr. Lyons Rethinks Autism Through Science And Compassion | Episode 409

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AWEtism: Dr. Lyons Rethinks Autism Through Science And Compassion | Episode 409 · Voices for Voices®

• 0:02
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: Hi everyone, it's Justin here, Voices for Voices.
• 0:06
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: Thank you so much for joining us on this episode and our over 400 episodes that uh you have uh wanted us to do.
• 0:16
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: If we didn't have an audience, uh we would not be doing this.
• 0:20
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: So thank you for tuning in, listening, watching, uh over 100 countries, thousand cities worldwide.
• 0:30
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: Uh help us uh make it 200 countries and 2,000 cities.
• 0:36
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: We have that big goal of still wanting to help 3 billion people over the course of my lifetime and beyond.
• 0:44
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: And uh because of you, we've reached uh so many people already, and I know we can do it with your help.
• 0:53
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: Uh, we are excited to bring this particular episode to you with our uh with our guest, Dr.
• 1:03
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: Lyons.
• 1:04
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: I'm just gonna go over a little bit of uh her background, and then we're gonna get into uh our conversation.
• 1:14
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: Uh so Dr.
• 1:16
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: Lyons, uh she works with parents uh whose children have autism, and she is a Yale University trained scientist, medical strategist, and autism parent.
• 1:33
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: She's also the author of Autism and Functional Medicine Doctors, The Right Doctor Makes a Difference, which you can find on Amazon.com.
• 1:46
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: Dr.
• 1:47
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: Lyons, thank you so much for for joining us today.
• 1:53
  AWEtism, Dr. Lyons: Well, thank you for having me.
• 1:54
  AWEtism, Dr. Lyons: I'm excited to be here and to talk with you.
• 1:57
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: Absolutely.
• 1:59
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: Uh for for those that don't know about autism, so there's the A-U-T-I-S-M, which is what uh a lot of people are familiar with.
• 2:14
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: Uh but for you, you have the AWE T I S M.
• 2:21
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: Can you talk just a little bit about that and and why you decided uh with the work that you are doing to you know almost like awesome autism as opposed to just autism?
• 2:39
  AWEtism, Dr. Lyons: Sure.
• 2:40
  AWEtism, Dr. Lyons: So um my daughter was diagnosed with autism, and that's how I got involved in all of this.
• 2:46
  AWEtism, Dr. Lyons: Um before before having my daughter, I worked in the pharmaceutical industry first as a researcher and then more on the business side.
• 2:56
  AWEtism, Dr. Lyons: So I had a lot of experience in the pharmaceutical industry and the healthcare space.
• 3:01
  AWEtism, Dr. Lyons: And then when my daughter was diagnosed with autism, I asked, okay, now what do we do?
• 3:08
  AWEtism, Dr. Lyons: And um, the answers really were not acceptable.
• 3:12
  AWEtism, Dr. Lyons: It was just like, oh well, things just get worse and there's not really too much you can do.
• 3:18
  AWEtism, Dr. Lyons: Uh and that just as a mom, that was was not satisfying.
• 3:23
  AWEtism, Dr. Lyons: And as a researcher, as someone who worked in the healthcare industry, I was like, that's like says who?
• 3:30
  AWEtism, Dr. Lyons: Like, where's the gold standard approaches?
• 3:32
  AWEtism, Dr. Lyons: Where's all the different clinical trials and who's the thought leaders and what are the doctors that are doing the research?
• 3:38
  AWEtism, Dr. Lyons: And um, that's really what I got into.
• 3:42
  AWEtism, Dr. Lyons: So I stopped work and I really was able to focus on my daughter and really understanding what is autism.
• 3:47
  AWEtism, Dr. Lyons: And um as she got better and better, then I was able to understand just how her body was really failing her in so many ways.
• 4:01
  AWEtism, Dr. Lyons: Like we hear about autism, how you know there's constipation and there's diarrhea, and you know, there might be migraines and there can be problems with sleep.
• 4:10
  AWEtism, Dr. Lyons: Like 80% of people with autism have sleep problems at some point, right?
• 4:14
  AWEtism, Dr. Lyons: So there are all these challenges with the body, but yet she was so determined she would get up and still go to school and pretty much fail at everything she did, right?
• 4:24
  AWEtism, Dr. Lyons: And get up and go to school the next day and still fail in so many things.
• 4:30
  AWEtism, Dr. Lyons: And um, as she got healthier and actually got more control of her body, I could see just her character, her determination.
• 4:41
  AWEtism, Dr. Lyons: And that's really when the word autism became AWE autism that way for me, because it was just like, whoa, I'm in such awe of who she is as a person, that I need to think about autism very differently.
• 4:57
  AWEtism, Dr. Lyons: And so then as I started educating others, um, that's really the the perspective that I have, where it's not trying to to quote unquote fix someone, like fix their character, fix who they are.
• 5:13
  AWEtism, Dr. Lyons: However, when there are different barriers that someone is is experiencing, you know, like headaches, um, body training, right?
• 5:22
  AWEtism, Dr. Lyons: Like there's so many things with the body that that are not working the way that person probably likes, then um that's really where it's important to understand the science, understand what can be done, and how to do things very logically and compassionately as well.
• 5:44
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: Right.
• 5:44
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: Uh I I I like the fact that your your determination of not being satisfied with answers that that you were you were given, just kind of the the status quo of well here's this is just the way it is.
• 6:03
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: I think that's awesome for uh our viewers and listeners to understand that they don't have to just I don't want to say like follow the sheep, but you know, go you'll follow, follow the herd and follow, well, this is what I was told, and this is the only way it it can be, and that it's okay to kind of challenge that at times, uh because it's so it's so important to give our children the best opportunity to sort of survive, but to be able to thrive as well.
• 6:46
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: Um can you talk about how you you started bringing in your functional uh doctors and uh all of the different ways, you know, the food, the nutrition, and how those aspects played a role in uh what you were learning about your your daughter and then autism just in general.
• 7:10
  AWEtism, Dr. Lyons: Sure.
• 7:11
  AWEtism, Dr. Lyons: So to start with, you know, challenging the status quo, it's it's really following your intuition as a parent, right?
• 7:21
  AWEtism, Dr. Lyons: So when I was in those doctors' appointments, that's what you know I'm being told, it just didn't feel right, you know, like it was 2013 at that time.
• 7:31
  AWEtism, Dr. Lyons: So it was just like there should be a better understanding of what autism is, it's 2013, right?
• 7:38
  AWEtism, Dr. Lyons: Like this is so my intuition was telling me that's not right.
• 7:45
  AWEtism, Dr. Lyons: And so many times parents' intuition in this autism journey gets invalidated.
• 7:53
  AWEtism, Dr. Lyons: So um, you know, like if I had a concern about my daughter, it was just like, oh, well, maybe she'll grow out of it, right?
• 8:00
  AWEtism, Dr. Lyons: And sometimes people and doctors tell you that because they're hoping that that's true.
• 8:05
  AWEtism, Dr. Lyons: Sometimes you do have to give some space, right, for for something to happen.
• 8:10
  AWEtism, Dr. Lyons: Um, but it's really important for parents to to trust their intuition for when they feel like something is off in their child's development, right?
• 8:20
  AWEtism, Dr. Lyons: So it sometimes it takes up to a year to get an appointment for a diagnosis.
• 8:25
  AWEtism, Dr. Lyons: So if there is that intuitive feeling, like, I don't know, you know, follow that intuition, it's it's really important.
• 8:34
  AWEtism, Dr. Lyons: Um, and that's what I did.
• 8:36
  AWEtism, Dr. Lyons: So I had that intuition of, um no, there's got to be a better answer.
• 8:42
  AWEtism, Dr. Lyons: But then what I did was I went to the scientific literature.
• 8:46
  AWEtism, Dr. Lyons: So I very was fortunate in the sense that that's what I did in in my academic career, in my business career, right?
• 8:54
  AWEtism, Dr. Lyons: So I knew PubMed very well.
• 8:57
  AWEtism, Dr. Lyons: So in the first like year or two of my daughter's diagnosis, I would, you know, get her to bed, which was not easy at that time, and then I would go and pop some popcorn.
• 9:08
  AWEtism, Dr. Lyons: And my my enjoyment was reading PubMed and really coming up to speed of the different literature.
• 9:15
  AWEtism, Dr. Lyons: So I paired my intuition with scientific fact.
• 9:19
  AWEtism, Dr. Lyons: So it's not as if I I just relied wholly on my intuition, it was just my intuition was telling me you need better information.
• 9:28
  AWEtism, Dr. Lyons: So then it was like, okay, where do I get that better information?
• 9:32
  AWEtism, Dr. Lyons: And for me, it's very easy to go to PubMed.
• 9:35
  AWEtism, Dr. Lyons: I still had um academic credentials so I could read the different articles.
• 9:40
  AWEtism, Dr. Lyons: Many of those articles you might have to pay $50 an article.
• 9:44
  AWEtism, Dr. Lyons: Um, so it's not necessarily always accessible.
• 9:48
  AWEtism, Dr. Lyons: Um, but as I started reading more, then that's where I started learning about functional medicine.
• 9:56
  AWEtism, Dr. Lyons: I started learning about, you know, what is all the research that's been done on gluten-free in autism and all different diets, right?
• 10:04
  AWEtism, Dr. Lyons: There's actually eight diets that are commonly used with kids with autism to address different symptoms, right?
• 10:11
  AWEtism, Dr. Lyons: So I wanted to understand all eight of those diets.
• 10:14
  AWEtism, Dr. Lyons: So I understood, okay, what makes the most sense for my daughter, right?
• 10:18
  AWEtism, Dr. Lyons: Just because a diet worked for one person doesn't mean it's going to work for her.
• 10:22
  AWEtism, Dr. Lyons: With autism, the the spectrum is so large that you can't just repetitively do the same thing for each child.
• 10:30
  AWEtism, Dr. Lyons: And that's that is where things can get complex, is you you really have to individualize things.
• 10:36
  AWEtism, Dr. Lyons: So for me, I wanted to learn as much as possible, and that was going to published scientific articles and then creating a strategy and an action plan from there.
• 10:50
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: Wow.
• 10:50
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: Uh and you've been recognized by a a lot of uh say uh organizations, uh, you know, HuffPost, uh Cornell University, Whole Foods, uh, you know, the the list goes on.
• 11:08
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: When did when did those relationships or those uh organizations start to realize what what you're doing, how important it is, and how they could help play a role and help blasting kind of the uh information uh in the the research uh and in the published articles and all the different pieces that you were bringing to together.
• 11:42
  AWEtism, Dr. Lyons: Yeah, so uh part of it is uh just a combination of um you know interactions.
• 11:48
  AWEtism, Dr. Lyons: Uh other part is um I'm pretty determined.
• 11:52
  AWEtism, Dr. Lyons: So it's funny.
• 11:53
  AWEtism, Dr. Lyons: I I was just for some reason when I was telling you how determined my daughter was, I started thinking when you followed up with the question of, well, you were pretty determined, I was like, huh, I think maybe she's learned her determination from me.
• 12:08
  AWEtism, Dr. Lyons: So I am pretty determined, and um, I have no problem doing outreach and um talking to people.
• 12:18
  AWEtism, Dr. Lyons: And I mean, that's how you and I connected, right?
• 12:20
  AWEtism, Dr. Lyons: So I reached out to you.
• 12:22
  AWEtism, Dr. Lyons: Um, so a lot of times then people are like, okay, who is this person?
• 12:27
  AWEtism, Dr. Lyons: And I've had a YouTube channel for over 10 years, and then people just go and look and they they see my videos and the way I approach things.
• 12:38
  AWEtism, Dr. Lyons: So spelling autism as AWE P I S M really lets people know that um I have great respect for someone with autism, and it's also about making sure that their body doesn't prevent them from doing what they want to do in life.
• 12:56
  AWEtism, Dr. Lyons: And I teach science, so there's very rare that you'll see my opinion on scientific videos.
• 13:03
  AWEtism, Dr. Lyons: Um, over the years, parents started asking me to do product reviews.
• 13:08
  AWEtism, Dr. Lyons: So, you know, how's this supplement or how's that?
• 13:11
  AWEtism, Dr. Lyons: So in there, I give my overall opinion, but in those videos, I break things down like um, let's look at the ingredients.
• 13:18
  AWEtism, Dr. Lyons: Is there any sugar?
• 13:20
  AWEtism, Dr. Lyons: Okay, yes or no.
• 13:21
  AWEtism, Dr. Lyons: So that's good or bad.
• 13:22
  AWEtism, Dr. Lyons: Let's look at the formulation of the B vitamins.
• 13:24
  AWEtism, Dr. Lyons: Is it um methylcobalamin or is it a cheaper version that the body then has more difficulty um utilizing?
• 13:32
  AWEtism, Dr. Lyons: And so I teach parents the science, and then at the end of those product reviews, I'll obviously say yes or no.
• 13:39
  AWEtism, Dr. Lyons: Um, but it's all based upon the science, and it's important that I teach parents how it is that I'm coming to that conclusion so that they can then do that for themselves.
• 13:50
  AWEtism, Dr. Lyons: So um I have a very science-based approach to educating, and I think that's really what resonates with a lot of people.
• 14:02
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: Excellent.
• 14:03
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: And not only here in the United States, but you you work with people across the world as well.
• 14:11
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: Um you talk just a little bit uh about that, how how similar we are as human beings, while there are the differences, but from the United States to other countries, that with us being human beings, that there's a lot of things that are similar that you probably have seen over the the years.
• 14:38
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: It's not like, oh, well, if you live in this geography, there's this set, and if you live over here and in this country, then there's this other uh set.
• 14:50
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: Uh that there are different cultures, but there are things that make us very similar as human beings, which makes the work that you do uh really universal in in a sense.
• 15:08
  AWEtism, Dr. Lyons: Sure.
• 15:08
  AWEtism, Dr. Lyons: So uh I've worked with parents in 21 countries so far.
• 15:14
  AWEtism, Dr. Lyons: Um, so that's people have different diets, different food sources, different farming practices, different chemicals, different air, you know.
• 15:23
  AWEtism, Dr. Lyons: So there's so much differences um that can occur from country to country, but in health, it's the body, the body doesn't lie, right?
• 15:37
  AWEtism, Dr. Lyons: So um it's it's important to have that viewpoint of what is it that the body needs, you know, like vitamin D is very basic.
• 15:46
  AWEtism, Dr. Lyons: So for some kids that live in uh you know warm climates, same in the United States, right?
• 15:51
  AWEtism, Dr. Lyons: People who live down more in Florida don't have too much of a concern about vitamin D, especially during you know, summer and even during winter.
• 15:58
  AWEtism, Dr. Lyons: Whereas, you know, maybe in Michigan, right, vitamin D in December, January is much more of a concern.
• 16:05
  AWEtism, Dr. Lyons: But it's important for the parents to know that vitamin D is an issue and then to you know stay on top of it.
• 16:13
  AWEtism, Dr. Lyons: So there's there's many basics to health, but then it's what is relevant to that particular child.
• 16:19
  AWEtism, Dr. Lyons: And believe it or not, there are some kids with autism who are living in sunny environments and for some genetic reasons, it's difficult to really get and utilize vitamin D.
• 16:31
  AWEtism, Dr. Lyons: So vitamin D is important um universally for everyone.
• 16:36
  AWEtism, Dr. Lyons: And um it's just important for parents to know what are these checkpoints that they should look at for quality health.
• 16:46
  AWEtism, Dr. Lyons: Um, things like diet, yes, food sources are completely different, and composition of carbohydrates versus protein, you know, is different in country to country.
• 16:55
  AWEtism, Dr. Lyons: Um but when the immune system is overwhelmed for whatever reason, and there there can be many reasons, and in autism, there's not just one reason why an immune system could be overwhelmed.
• 17:10
  AWEtism, Dr. Lyons: Um, it's important, let's say, to look at diet, right?
• 17:14
  AWEtism, Dr. Lyons: So when the immune system is overwhelmed, diet becomes really important because you don't want to add to the problem, right?
• 17:22
  AWEtism, Dr. Lyons: So that's when parents start to go organic and they start to really look at, okay, how how has my food been grown?
• 17:29
  AWEtism, Dr. Lyons: And um really looking at water hydration.
• 17:33
  AWEtism, Dr. Lyons: What am I drinking that's in this water?
• 17:34
  AWEtism, Dr. Lyons: Is there heavy metals?
• 17:35
  AWEtism, Dr. Lyons: Are there chemicals in there?
• 17:37
  AWEtism, Dr. Lyons: Um, those are all things that really complicate issues that are there already for the body.
• 17:43
  AWEtism, Dr. Lyons: Um, and so an analysis of that all has to be done because there are problems like that all throughout the world.
• 17:51
  AWEtism, Dr. Lyons: So I haven't found anything that is, you know, oh, this only happens in the US, right?
• 17:58
  AWEtism, Dr. Lyons: It it I have not found anything like that whatsoever so far.
• 18:03
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: Yeah, working working with parents, I'm I'm wondering uh as so a little bit of now my background of uh major depression, anxiety, ADHD.
• 18:18
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: I'm kind of on the uh lower spectrum of the uh of autism where it's mostly lights and sounds and that that really really get get to me, which people think I'm crazy because they're like, you got this show and you're doing this and you got the light, and and I'm like, I as long as I'm focusing on something that's not the lights and not the sounds, I'm I'm good, but when I can get overwhelmed and get that sensory stimulation overload, um I am I'm just curious on was it was it always the way I'm trying to think of how to say uh so stigma, so stigma with mental health, mental illness, and and that stigma around autism.
• 19:14
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: Did you ever have like a hurdle uh to to get over to kind of just like you know get that conversation started uh with uh individuals that may be like, oh well, yeah, there's nothing I can do to help?
• 19:35
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: Uh it I guess I don't I don't know.
• 19:39
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: You you can explain it better than better than than me, but I'm just wondering from a a sti a stigma, what has there been a stigma around the work that you've done?
• 19:49
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: Uh that you have to do like extra selling or an extra pitch to parents to validate you know who you are, the work you've done.
• 19:59
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: And and and the backing and the like.
• 20:03
  AWEtism, Dr. Lyons: I think to talk about stigma in the US, like 10 years ago or so, um, and more when my daughter was diagnosed, um, the occurrence of autism was uh much less back then.
• 20:18
  AWEtism, Dr. Lyons: So there was kind of a novelty to my daughter having autism.
• 20:24
  AWEtism, Dr. Lyons: Whereas in the past 10 years, autism is really front and center for many parents, for many schools.
• 20:33
  AWEtism, Dr. Lyons: Um, so I would say in the US, the the stigma of having autism has gotten less.
• 20:40
  AWEtism, Dr. Lyons: There, there's certain certainly still challenges, um, especially in school setting, getting uh accommodations, uh feeling okay to ask for accommodations sometimes with people who are um more on uh the lower support needs, like daily living support needs, um they might be hesitant to ask for um, you know, extra time for quiet in their school schedule, um, things along those lines.
• 21:09
  AWEtism, Dr. Lyons: Um but it's it's definitely important to learn how to advocate for yourself.
• 21:14
  AWEtism, Dr. Lyons: So for any of these, you know, high schoolers or in college and even in the workforce, um, it's certainly important to have that good relationship with your boss so that the boss doesn't think, oh, you're not doing your work if you're not feeling good, or you know, if if the timings of meetings, sometimes it's better to have meetings in the morning when someone's body is fresh, right?
• 21:39
  AWEtism, Dr. Lyons: As opposed to in the afternoons.
• 21:41
  AWEtism, Dr. Lyons: And then when someone shows up maybe tired, or even things like when you have the lights down low, people just assume, are you paying attention?
• 21:50
  AWEtism, Dr. Lyons: Are you sleeping?
• 21:52
  AWEtism, Dr. Lyons: Like that definitely would have been the case 10 years ago.
• 21:55
  AWEtism, Dr. Lyons: But for now, you can have that private conversation with your boss and say, Listen, I sometimes get really overwhelmed by the end of the day.
• 22:04
  AWEtism, Dr. Lyons: So if I have my lights down low, it's not that I'm not paying attention.
• 22:07
  AWEtism, Dr. Lyons: It's actually I have the lights down low so I can pay attention.
• 22:11
  AWEtism, Dr. Lyons: And you can then always even ask, is there anything you want me to do so that you feel I'm paying attention, right?
• 22:20
  AWEtism, Dr. Lyons: So, like this is where you get partnership.
• 22:22
  AWEtism, Dr. Lyons: Um, and you you talk back and forth with a boss or a teacher or what the situation is.
• 22:28
  AWEtism, Dr. Lyons: Um, as far as stigma in other countries, I would definitely say that there are real stigma for autism in a variety of different countries.
• 22:40
  AWEtism, Dr. Lyons: And um, parents worked really hard to help resolve some of these health issues, you know, stimming or rocking.
• 22:48
  AWEtism, Dr. Lyons: In some countries, that's really frowned upon.
• 22:51
  AWEtism, Dr. Lyons: Whereas here in the US, we can kind of say, well, that's just what what that person is doing, and that's how they're regulating.
• 22:58
  AWEtism, Dr. Lyons: Whereas in other countries, that's not acceptable at all.
• 23:02
  AWEtism, Dr. Lyons: So I certainly don't want anyone to think that autism has been universally accepted all throughout the world because there are countries where um it it still has a high stigma.
• 23:15
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: Wow.
• 23:15
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: Uh one thing as I was doing uh research for our show, it's coming uh across on on your website, it really just blew my mind.
• 23:27
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: Uh, and that is that uh 37% of children lose their autism diagnosis.
• 23:38
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: I didn't I didn't I guess I didn't know that that was a a a thing.
• 23:43
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: I guess can you walk through kind of like that that that process of uh you know the scientific uh way ways that you went to find that research uh information and those outcomes?
• 24:00
  AWEtism, Dr. Lyons: Sure.
• 24:01
  AWEtism, Dr. Lyons: So that's one of the pieces of information that that particular research publication wasn't available when my daughter was diagnosed, but that's the kind of information that I found that then completely changed how I looked at my daughter, how I thought about what her future could be, right?
• 24:20
  AWEtism, Dr. Lyons: So, you know, I had that intuition, there's gotta be a better answer, right?
• 24:24
  AWEtism, Dr. Lyons: And then I had the knowledge of okay, let me go to PubMed and see what clinical outcomes occur for autism.
• 24:32
  AWEtism, Dr. Lyons: And so back when my daughter was diagnosed, the research showed that about 10% of kids who were diagnosed with autism lost their autism diagnosis.
• 24:42
  AWEtism, Dr. Lyons: And um, that for me, I thought, okay, that you know, nobody's telling me this part.
• 24:49
  AWEtism, Dr. Lyons: This is this is important information.
• 24:51
  AWEtism, Dr. Lyons: 10%, yeah, it's small, but I gotta take a shot, right?
• 24:54
  AWEtism, Dr. Lyons: So, like this is this is where quality information makes a difference.
• 24:59
  AWEtism, Dr. Lyons: And so then over the decades, there were always, you know, one or two publications that showed an autism diagnosis wasn't permanent, it was a small amount.
• 25:08
  AWEtism, Dr. Lyons: And I think a lot of people don't want to get parents' hopes up, but I don't think that's uh in the best interest of the child if the parents don't even know that this could be a possibility, right?
• 25:20
  AWEtism, Dr. Lyons: And so um in 2023, that that's the latest research showing that 37% of kids with an autism diagnosis lost it.
• 25:29
  AWEtism, Dr. Lyons: And they were at um Boston General, so the hospital in Boston, Massachusetts, well-respected hospital.
• 25:36
  AWEtism, Dr. Lyons: And so they looked at kids that were diagnosed with autism, and then several years later, did they still have the autism diagnosis?
• 25:45
  AWEtism, Dr. Lyons: And 37% lost it.
• 25:47
  AWEtism, Dr. Lyons: And they didn't really quantify exactly what each parent did.
• 25:51
  AWEtism, Dr. Lyons: Um, like, you know, vitamin D status, like really basic elemental health.
• 25:55
  AWEtism, Dr. Lyons: I would love if they, you know, got into those details.
• 25:59
  AWEtism, Dr. Lyons: Um, they didn't, but they did one of the things that they showed was that as a child was starting to improve, the parents scaled back the, you know, like ABA therapy and more that behavioral aspect of therapy, which is really the only thing that insurance pays for nowadays.
• 26:20
  AWEtism, Dr. Lyons: Um, so it was really contrary to what I was expecting that moved the needle, right?
• 26:26
  AWEtism, Dr. Lyons: Because if that's what insurance pays for, that's what should be the best, right?
• 26:30
  AWEtism, Dr. Lyons: And it's not.
• 26:31
  AWEtism, Dr. Lyons: So as children are getting better, then they scale back on those types of therapies.
• 26:36
  AWEtism, Dr. Lyons: Um, but it's important for parents to know that this is a possibility and then to start saying, okay, who has that knowledge and how can that potentially apply for my child, right?
• 26:47
  AWEtism, Dr. Lyons: 37% now, you definitely gotta take a shot at that, right?
• 26:52
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: Oh yeah.
• 26:53
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: Um, I'm very curious in do autism diagnoses only happen when a person is is younger?
• 27:06
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: Um, I've run across even with myself, uh you know, growing up being in my 40s, and uh autism really wasn't, I don't know that it was really looked at or tested in the 80s and the 90s as as much as it is is now.
• 27:29
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: And I've had a lot of people come to me and you know in in a not nice way and say, like, you know, you're lying, you're you're full of it, you know, it if you weren't diagnosed when you were in your earlier years, uh, how are you just finding this out and in when you're in your 30s?
• 27:50
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: Can you speak maybe a little bit like your your knowledge of that, if if there is any research or anything about that?
• 28:02
  AWEtism, Dr. Lyons: So um just to say it can be possible to not have been diagnosed as a young child with autism and to be diagnosed later in life, that is happening more and more now.
• 28:13
  AWEtism, Dr. Lyons: Um, many times when a child is diagnosed with autism, parents start looking at themselves.
• 28:20
  AWEtism, Dr. Lyons: And sometimes that is, you know, the the motivation and the change that is needed for a parent to say, maybe I should explore diagnosis.
• 28:29
  AWEtism, Dr. Lyons: Um, it's not a linear relationship, so I certainly don't want anyone to think that if they have a child with autism, then they have to be autistic themselves.
• 28:37
  AWEtism, Dr. Lyons: Um, that's not the case, but it just gets parents to to reflect upon themselves a bit more.
• 28:42
  AWEtism, Dr. Lyons: Um, so it's it's totally possible to be diagnosed later in life.
• 28:46
  AWEtism, Dr. Lyons: Um, back in the 80s, there wasn't um uh persistent, consistent screening for autism, right?
• 28:54
  AWEtism, Dr. Lyons: Because the numbers were so rare.
• 28:56
  AWEtism, Dr. Lyons: Whereas now kids are routinely being screened for that.
• 29:01
  AWEtism, Dr. Lyons: So in the the well child visits, um, that is something that a pediatrician is looking for so that it can be flagged.
• 29:08
  AWEtism, Dr. Lyons: Um uh an autism diagnosis can be made as early as 18 months.
• 29:13
  AWEtism, Dr. Lyons: So um quite young.
• 29:16
  AWEtism, Dr. Lyons: I will say there's a new piece of research that was just published last year that looked at the genetics of someone who was diagnosed with autism when they were a child and someone that's diagnosed with autism later in life.
• 29:31
  AWEtism, Dr. Lyons: And the genetics are different.
• 29:33
  AWEtism, Dr. Lyons: And so yes, this is so they what uh what uh really complicates the situation is the one word autism that is used to apply in so many different situations, right?
• 29:47
  AWEtism, Dr. Lyons: So someone with autism can be um fully verbal, uh, they might have difficulties with um, you know, relationships and and speaking, having that kind of back and forth conversation, maybe some stimming, but they're still able to hold a job or something like that.
• 30:05
  AWEtism, Dr. Lyons: Um, whereas on the other end of the spectrum, profound autism is when someone needs 24-7 care, they can't feed themselves, they can't cook for themselves, they can't walk across the street or drive.
• 30:17
  AWEtism, Dr. Lyons: So we have this one word that is really trying to describe um very different people and different symptoms and experiences.
• 30:26
  AWEtism, Dr. Lyons: So for someone to say that um just because you were diagnosed in your 30s, it's not truly autism.
• 30:35
  AWEtism, Dr. Lyons: That's not correct for them to say it's not factual.
• 30:38
  AWEtism, Dr. Lyons: And um autism really does impact people differently.
• 30:43
  AWEtism, Dr. Lyons: So you can certainly have an intense, you know, sensory component to it, um, but yet still be verbal.
• 30:52
  AWEtism, Dr. Lyons: Um, that's that's certainly a possibility in in autism.
• 30:57
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: Great.
• 30:58
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: Thank you so much for for that.
• 31:00
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: Uh can you talk as we're uh winding down our our time together today on this episode?
• 31:07
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: You talk about uh the uh the the published book, autism and functional medicine doctors, the right doctor makes a difference.
• 31:19
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: What made you want to be an author and want to put information out to literally the world?
• 31:26
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: Uh, because anybody can can purchase just about no matter what country they're they're in.
• 31:33
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: Can you maybe just talk a little bit about that and then uh follow up with uh any more of your branding that you want to share with our our viewers and listeners?
• 31:45
  AWEtism, Dr. Lyons: Sure.
• 31:45
  AWEtism, Dr. Lyons: So I started working with parents one-on-one uh many years ago.
• 31:50
  AWEtism, Dr. Lyons: And um when doing, you know, they're all across the United States, and then it spread to all across the world.
• 31:56
  AWEtism, Dr. Lyons: And of course, one of the top questions I get is okay, who's who's a good doctor?
• 32:01
  AWEtism, Dr. Lyons: Who should I work with?
• 32:02
  AWEtism, Dr. Lyons: Right.
• 32:03
  AWEtism, Dr. Lyons: And I went through that same process for my daughter, and I'm a very thorough person.
• 32:08
  AWEtism, Dr. Lyons: Um, I think you can probably tell that about me already.
• 32:10
  AWEtism, Dr. Lyons: So I'm nothing is like slip shod, we don't do anything, you know, halfway.
• 32:14
  AWEtism, Dr. Lyons: We either do it very well or we don't commit and do it.
• 32:18
  AWEtism, Dr. Lyons: So I wanted to understand doctors and autism so I could get my daughter the best care.
• 32:23
  AWEtism, Dr. Lyons: And then when I worked with clients, I had the same approach.
• 32:26
  AWEtism, Dr. Lyons: So I knew across the United States, all right, who are the good doctors?
• 32:29
  AWEtism, Dr. Lyons: So, regardless of where my client was, we could start to assemble a really good healthcare team.
• 32:34
  AWEtism, Dr. Lyons: And then the wait list grew to work with me.
• 32:38
  AWEtism, Dr. Lyons: It grew more and more, and I wanted to make sure that parents could still find the really good doctors.
• 32:45
  AWEtism, Dr. Lyons: And so that's what made me write the Lions Report in 2020.
• 32:48
  AWEtism, Dr. Lyons: So that was when that book was first published.
• 32:51
  AWEtism, Dr. Lyons: And then in 2026, we are releasing an updated version.
• 32:55
  AWEtism, Dr. Lyons: And um back in 2020, there was about only 70 doctors, and so functional medicine has evolved and more doctors are involved in the field, although some of the really good ones are retiring or have retired already.
• 33:10
  AWEtism, Dr. Lyons: So um in 2026, the the new book would be published, and um, I can come back, we can talk about doctors and healthcare more.
• 33:19
  AWEtism, Dr. Lyons: Um, but that's why I wrote the book so that a parent could spend a small amount of money to really get good information about who it is that they should be working with.
• 33:31
  AWEtism, Dr. Lyons: Um, because I really want to make everything much easier and accessible for for parents going through the same thing that I went through.
• 33:38
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: Wow.
• 33:39
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: Uh thank you for that.
• 33:41
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: I'm glad you're you're you're you're you're doing an update here the this year, and we'll definitely have you have you back to to uh talk and and and explore uh that uh that piece of work that that you're doing.
• 33:57
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: And I think it's great that you didn't and you're not just stopping.
• 34:02
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: Like, I did this thing and now I'm stopping.
• 34:06
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: Like you like you said, like you're you're gonna either go all out or you just don't.
• 34:11
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: And I'm kind of the same way where it's like I I can't do something halfway.
• 34:16
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: Like I'm gonna get started, I I have to finish it, and um sometimes that leads to some burnout and and and things.
• 34:26
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: Um that that's that that's great.
• 34:29
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: Um any other ways uh people can learn uh about the work that you do, uh your your website, and you have a YouTube channel, how people can find find you and subscribe and all those great things.
• 34:46
  AWEtism, Dr. Lyons: Yep.
• 34:46
  AWEtism, Dr. Lyons: So I'll definitely send you all all the links so you can do that.
• 34:51
  AWEtism, Dr. Lyons: They can first check me out at YouTube.
• 34:53
  AWEtism, Dr. Lyons: I've had that channel over 10 years, so there's lots of science.
• 34:56
  AWEtism, Dr. Lyons: If parents want to learn about that, um, they can come check out navigatingautism.com.
• 35:02
  AWEtism, Dr. Lyons: That is the company that I have that really helps parents navigate through this whole process.
• 35:07
  AWEtism, Dr. Lyons: We have a platform that is flexible spending approved.
• 35:11
  AWEtism, Dr. Lyons: Um, so we really try and educate the parent so they they can make the best decisions for their child.
• 35:17
  AWEtism, Dr. Lyons: Um, and then yeah, you can find me on a variety of different social medias.
• 35:22
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: Excellent.
• 35:23
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: Well, Dr.
• 35:24
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: Lyons, thank you so much for taking time out of your day, spend with us, and uh impart knowledge on uh the the work, the so important work that you you have and continue to do.
• 35:39
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: And uh we we look forward to uh maintaining uh kind of a uh relationship, we'll be able to follow how uh how things are are going and uh at certain uh milestones.
• 35:56
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: We definitely want to have you back and and share because it's it's so important the work that you're you're doing.
• 36:03
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: And uh and there may be others that are doing work like yours, but the work that you're doing is so important and attacking it from so many different angles, uh from the nutrition to the sleep, uh a whole gamut, and that is really how we we we think that everybody should be you know treated, evaluated, looked at, like, okay, how well why why am I feeling like this?
• 36:36
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: Is there is there certain things that I can do to uh help?
• 36:42
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: And sometimes it it goes into autism and and to know that it's just amazing that the the book that you you have in 2020 and coming out in 2026 because uh and I'm just thinking about the referrals as well.
• 37:00
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: Uh you know, it's sometimes taking up to a year to or more to to get on the list, and and some people just lose faith and they're like, well, I'm gonna have to wait a year to to see uh a doctor, and are they gonna actually help uh in in in the best way?
• 37:22
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: So thank you so much, Dr.
• 37:25
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: Lyons, for joining us.
• 37:28
  AWEtism, Dr. Lyons: My pleasure.
• 37:29
  AWEtism, Dr. Lyons: Thank you for having me.
• 37:30
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: Absolutely, and thank you to all our viewers, our listeners here in the United States and across the world.
• 37:37
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: Uh, we're grateful to have you with us, and and until next time, uh this is Justin Mal Mayes, and we have Dr.
• 37:46
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: Lyons on our show today, and give a big thank you to her for spending time with us.
• 37:54
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: And uh we uh hope you not only have a great day, but we hope that you celebrate all the voices that that that we have, uh, whether that's through art or through music or speaking or playing an instrument or a sport.
• 38:12
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: Um, and we we like to say to uh be a voice for you or somebody in need, and we'll see you on the next show.
• 38:22
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: We'll see you next time, everybody.
• 38:25
  AWEtism, Dr. Lyons: Bye.
• 38:26
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: Bye.